[Biofuel] How to read your attachments

[bmolloy]

A point of information for John Hayes, and anyone interested in sending
attachments. These can indeed be sent through the list. The list is set to
reject them and a notification to that effect will appear. When you receive
a message with such a notification all you need do is open the message in
the usual way then click on "Forward". The attachment will then appear above
the subject line. Click and open as normal. The attachment can then be
read..
Bob.

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Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Kyoto clears last hurdle / Scientists against Bush / U.S. can end oil use

[sspence]

If Russia ratifies Kyoto (it hasn't yet), it is only to get a political pass 
for entrance in the WTO. The lower house of parliament will ratify (or not) in 
three months.
Countries which are not signatories to Kyoto -- like the United States -- will 
not be bound by the pact even if it enters into force. 


= = = Original message = = =

>From: "Ryan Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Kyoto clears last hurdle / Scientists against Bush / U.S. 
>can end oil use
>Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 10:27:03 -0400
>
>EMS UPDATE - Sept 30, 2004
>
>
>KYOTO CLEARS LAST HURDLE
>
>The Russian cabinet approved the ratification of the Kyoto global warming
>treaty today.  Russia's ratification means the Kyoto Protocol will enter
>into force as an internationally binding treaty in 2005.
>
>The treaty must still win the approval of Russia's lower parliament house,
>but that is considered a virtual certainty.
>
>News stories & press releases:  http://www.ems.org
>
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
>SCIENTISTS BEGIN TOUR TO OPPOSE BUSH
>
>Scientists and Engineers for Change, a group that includes 10 Nobel
>laureates, has begun a tour to battleground states to highlight the misuse
>of science by the Bush administration.
>
>"I am not a Democrat and I have never played a significant role in
>politics," said Dr. Douglas Osheroff, a Nobel-winning professor of physics
>at Stanford who is a part of the group. "We must begin to address climate
>change now. To do so, we must have an administration that listens to the
>scientific community, not one that manipulates and minimizes scientific
>input."
>
>Tour stops are scheduled for Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New
>Mexico, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Oregon, Virginia and Wisconsin.
>
>Press release, news:  http://www.ems.org
>
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
>STUDY: U.S. CAN END OIL USE
>
>A Pentagon-cofunded blueprint for making the United States oil-free,
>released September 20 by the Rocky Mountain Institute (RMI), finds that by
>2015 the United States can save more oil than it gets from the Persian
>Gulf -- and can eliminate its oil use altogether by 2050. The plan achieves
>a net cost savings for the United States and does not require taxation or
>regulation.
>
>The plan, "Winning the Oil Endgame: Innovation for Profits, Jobs, and
>Security," would eliminate half of U.S. oil use through improved efficiency,
>and the other half through the use of biofuels and natural gas.
>
>"Because saving and substituting oil costs less than buying it, our study
>finds a net savings of $70 billion a year," said RMI CEO Amory Lovins.
>
>More:  http://www.ems.org
>
>
>
>^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
>EMS listservs provide news tips and resources for journalists.
>You received this email because you signed up at our website,
>http://ems.org.  Please forward this email to your colleagues.
>
>To subscribe or change your preferences:
>Please visit http://www.ems.org/updates.html
>
>^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

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[Biofuel] Reality TV meets America at Rock Bottom

[Appal Energy]

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/neutralizing_the_flipflop_charge.php

Robert L. Borosage, Co-Director, Campaign for America's Future

Last night, Americans finally got a glimpse of reality. The truth about the
growing debacle in Iraq got some exposure-as did George Bush's continued,
impatient and scornful denial of that reality. Bush "stayed on message,"
repeating his memorized attack lines over and over, but he couldn't hide the
inescapable reality: Iraq is a catastrophe and the president offers only
more of the same.

Bush had every advantage going into the debate. As a wartime president, he
could hide behind the sacrifice of the soldiers. His attack dogs had
bloodied John Kerry badly over the past weeks. Worried about a stature gap,
his negotiators had even insured that TV would mask the difference in their
height. But Kerry's strong performance put the reality about Iraq before the
American people. Everything the president told us about the war in Iraq
turned out to be false. Hussein wasn't a threat. He had no weapons of mass
destruction. He wasn't connected to September 11 or al Qaeda. We weren't
greeted as heroes. The president had no plan for the occupation. The troops
were exposed without proper forces, equipment or training. The debacle
distracted from the pursuit of bin Laden and provided al Qaeda with recruits
from across the world. It has cost us dearly in lives and lucre. It has left
America more isolated, less admired and less safe.

And the debate revealed that the president is still in denial, abrupt and
uncomfortable when faced with the truth. He still paints Saddam-who before
the war was a delusional dictator, his weapons dismantled, his army in
tatters, his country in shambles, his mind distracted by novels and
fantasy-as a threat. He still denies the worsening catastrophe on the ground
in Iraq. He still ignores the basic failures on security at home. The
structured formats of presidential debates usually make for bad acting and
hokey pre-baked gestures. But last night, reality impinged. And the country
saw a president who misled us into a horror-and offers only more of the
same. With every grimace, every repeat of pat attack lines, President Bush
reinforced John Kerry's argument that we need a new president who can face
reality and struggle with what are now horrible choices to change our
course.

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[Biofuel] Ultimate Pump Wash

[Legal Eagle]

OK, I finally have something that seems to be doing the job right. It's not a 
watering can head (even the fancy Chinese kind), it's not a couple of versized 
shower heads either (although that would also work).
I went to the hardware store determined to solve this tghing and found a thing 
called a ring sprinkler 
http://www.cornerhardware.com/item_263438/Lawn-Garden/Hoses-Sprinklers/Stationary-Sprinklers/SunMate-Ring-Sprinkler.html
 used for watering lawns or just for children to play in.
I had to drill out the outside holes a bit so that it would point inward a bit 
more, but it works ! It covers the entire area with a "rain" and the water 
sinks quickly enough so that the BD doesn't mix which is somewhat of a bummer.
I suppose going the route of a more powerful pump would suck it out at a rate 
that would also blend the BD with the water, and opening the exit from a 
3/4-1/2 (which is what I have now) to a 3/4-1inch would also encourage the 
blending better. Too much of a royal pain to dismantle the whole thing right 
now to fiddle with it although winter may prove to be interesting.
On a side note, I did contact the Wintron XC30 people and got a nice reply. I 
will be giving them a go for my B100 trying to stretch it out as long as 
possible. They already said they can't deal with -25C yet but are working on it 
:)
Now that the pump wash thing is fixed (for the moment) time to make more BD.

Luc
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Re: [Biofuel] Request for feed-back

[balaji]

Hello David,

- Original Message -
From: "Dave Brockes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 7:57 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Request for feed-back


> Good evening Everyone,
>
> I made a similar request as this a week or so ago and did not get much of
> anything in the way of a response from the group. I know there is a huge
> amount of knowledge and experience out there in at least one or the other
> areas of my request. Most anything would help but particularly in the way
of
> manufacturers of this size of equipment or the processes overall.
> I certainly invite any reply, thought or suggestion towards what we are
> trying to do. The basics of what I'm hoping to learn a little about
follows:

> We are trying to investigate the possibilities of establishing an
extraction
> plant for SVO that will allow us to produce about 2000GPD of oil (from
> locally grown crops).
> We would like to feed this oil directly into a power generation system
that
> will be producing about 2000kW on a continuous basis. There will be a 2nd
> generator that will mirror the first and we'll alternate between them for
> constant service.

At a specific fuel consumption of 350 ml/kWh, if you wish to operate your 2
MW Power Plant for 24 hr/day, you would need about 16,800 lt/day or 4,440 US
GPD and not 2000 GPD. What locally grown crops do you have in mind? Most oil
bearing seeds contain 20% to 35% oil. This implies a milling capacity of
between 55 and 95 MT/day @ 80% capacity utilisation.

> We are trying to identify equipment that will allow us to do this process
in
> a cost effective manner but not getting much response from equipment
> manufacturers.

You can find a great deal at

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html and associated links

Also refer for seed processing and equipment manufacturers to

http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/PDF/oilseed.pdf

Here are the urls to some manufacturers.

http://www.tinytechindia.com/profile.htm
http://www.rajkumaragromachinery.com/index.html

> Does anyone have any experience doing this or can you suggest good
reliable
> equipment to use for the extraction process? A manufacturer?
> Any recommendations or thoughts on the process itself.

For the capacities you plan, a steam assisted expeller or a hydraulic cold
press would be the right choices.

> The biggest problem of course is that no Engine manufacturer will warranty
> the engine if we use a bio-diesel fuel, (much less SVO), consequently we
are
> going to have to resort to buying used equipment for this plant.
> Are you aware of any programs that might help sponsor a project such as
ours
> and would they know of affordable resources for equipment. We (a small
group
> of 5 of us doing R&D with other alternatives; mainly wind), are putting
> together a viable project and plant that a small community will use as a
> test project. The local school is ready to take Wind generated power from
> our "new" concept wind generator as soon as we can get the money together
to
> run the poles and lines to the school but the power plant (back-up) will
> come as a 2nd phase of our project.

As for experience of others refer to
http://www.goodnewsindia.com/Pages/content/discovery/honge.html


" 
Proving grounds:

The idea had to move from paper to the ground.

Two breaks came his way.

The first was from the industry, always quick to spot an opportunity.
Dandeli Ferroalloys [Dandeli Town-581 325, Karnataka] established in 1955,is
a heavy consumer of electricity. Power forms 60% of their variable costs.
P.V.Jose of the company read an early press release about Dr.Shrinivasa's
findings on Honge oil and got in touch with him. Coordinating with
Dr.Shrinivasa, Dandeli converted all five of their 1 megaWatt diesel engines
to run on biodiesel. [Jose reported in Feb., 2001 that they had generated
760,000 kWH of energy entirely from Honge oil. And they are continuing the
usage.]

The second break came from Karnataka's Rural Development and Panchayat Raj
department. A sanctioned fund of Rs. 278 lakhs was allowed to run a Honge
oil programme in seven villages around Kagganahalli.

Dr.Shrinivasa prepared a master plan and has been executing it at
Kagganahalli. The full weight of current scientific arts was brought to bear
on India's rural development. Rs.200,000 was spent on sourcing satellite
images to identify fracture lines and from them, deep water sources were
identified using electrical sensitivity measurements. 20 bore wells of
depths varying from 200' to 300' were drilled in the project area spread
over 40 sq.kM. Submersible pumps were let into the wells and a project-level
440 volt grid was created to power the pumps. At the power station two 63
kVA generators stood waiting for Honge oil. A 20kM network of 3" pipelines
was buried underground with outlets at various farm-heads.

Honge seeds were collected from the project area, taken to a miller at a
nearby town. The only processing done on the oil was to fi

Re: [Biofuel] ultimate pump wash

[Legal Eagle]

- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ultimate pump wash



>I would really be concerned with a system like this. If you are not careful
on how it is set up, you will mix biodiesel and water as noted.

Yes, and that isn't a problem for well made fuel as it will then seperate
nicely once the mixing is done. I have done this verything with a drill
attached pain stirrer; stuck it in there with the water and BD and gave it
the once or twice over for several minutes. As expected, it all seperated as
oil and water should and the wash was excellent.

>When the water comes through the biodiesel, it may not separate before it
is suck up by the pump again. I would be really careful of a system like
this unless you have a big water supply for the water wash and it is deep
and the pick up point of the water is well below where the biodiesel and
water meet.

Irrelevant, see above.


>I think you could accomplish the same thing by putting a copper pipe
through the biodiesel to the water, at the bottom. The copper pipe could
have holes drilled in it at the water line, some above and some below. Then
you could drill a bigger hole at the bottom of the copper pipe. Then you
could run an air line through the pipe and bring it back around and put it
in the hole at the bottom of the pipe and make sure the air hose is looking
up. This way you could have the ultimate bubble wash as the air bubbles
would bring the water from the bottom of the processor to the top and the
water would go out the holes drilled at the top of the pipe and clean the
biodiesel as it trickle backs down.

I already have a bubble washer set up, I just don't want to do it that way.
I have a "wall of bubbles" tube from the aquarium store that works well, and
I have used it and it did work. The challenge is to get a pump to do it
within the parameters that are allowed me. See my next post on a success
story about that.



>As previously stated, you should make sure that the pipe is well below the
point were biodiesel and water meet so you won't suck up any biodiesel and
start to mix them up.

Again, well made fuel won't be bothered by water/BD mixing as they will
seperate out completely once the mixing stops.

Luc

>Jeff



From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ultimate pump wash
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Hello Luc

It's no ordinary watering can head:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html
Journey to Forever 90-litre processor

Scroll down to "processor lid".

But all you need is the principle, of course, then adapt what you can
find to do the same job in your set-up. As you're doing.

I'm not quite clear on it though. "The water gets pumped up and then
falls like rain all over the surface of the BD" - only the water? Or
are you pumping BD as well, or mixed BD and water? If it's only the
water, all you have is a sort of glorified mist-washer, with rain
rather than mist. Well, maybe that's okay. But I'd've thought a pump
would pull liquid out of the bottom faster than the water raining on
top will percolate down, isn't it pulling BD as well, and mixing the
water and BD? Is the BD getting mixed with water, or just rained on?

regards

Keith



>OK, this time I think I just might have gotten it :) I was
>re-reading through the 90 liter processor at JtF as I recalled
>something about a shower head being used.
>Well, it turned out to be a watering can head, but same idea.
>I have set up a system where the water is pumped up from the exit
>pipe in the Standpipe design
>http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=333) to
>the top of the wash tank and there it is distributed via a "T"
>section to fall like rain over the BD. It works, but still not to my
>satisfaction. Enter the watering can idea. Instead of the "T"
>section with perferated hose actiing as a distributor tomorow I am
>on the hunt for a pair of large, flat shower heads that can be used
>instead. That should do it once and for all. The water gets pumped
>up  and then falls like rain all over the surface of the BD washing
>it as it sinks to the bottom and gets pumped back up again and again
>and again.
>And that should about do it for the Ultimate Pump Wash :) Other
>methods might work better but with the very limited head space I
>have to work with this it is for me. I will post an update (even if
>it doesn't work... but it will, ha!)
>I figure that with TWO shower heads the entire area should be
>suficiently covered so as to do a good job, and that is the only
>thing I will be satisfied with, a GOOD job.
>
>Luc



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Re: [Biofuel] Kerry preferred around World - Poll

[Legal Eagle]

- Original Message - 
From: "balaji" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kerry preferred around World - Poll


> Hello Luc, Hakan et al,
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 4:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kerry preferred around World - Poll
>
> > Not only is there a lacking in undersanding of the world but also
> > considering the so-called christian support for the illigitimate US
> > government, one needs to only read what the Bible teaches and one would
> see
> > that It also is overtly socialistic and most definetly NOT materialistic
> or
> > in favour of hegemony upon the poor, so it's two strikes all the way
> around.
>
> All established religions teach the virtues of universal love, compassion,
> consideration for the frail, the aged and the needy. Many of them enjoin
> acts of charity, self abnegation and service to society as pious duty. It
is
> only later that the teachings get distorted by twisted mean souls that
> hanker after the material and "pine for what is not".  A Christian cloak
> does little to hide the growing rot of greed, deceit, and unbridled
> arrogance of power that lies festering at the heart of the Iraq campaign.
>

Of which there can be do doubt.If it looks like a duck, ect it IS a duck
even if it is disguised as something else.

Luc

> 
>
> Luc
>
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:08 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kerry preferred around World - Poll
>
> > > Wayne,
> > >
> > > You have to work on your understanding of the world and systems.
> Socialism
> > > as system and idea is quite more democratic and respectful to human
> rights
> > > than the traditional US republican ideal. I hope that Bush is not
> > > necessarily representative for US way of life, it is at least not my
> > > experiences and it would be quite frightening if he was. Looking at
> > > numbers, he cannot claim to represent even half of the US population.
>
> Considering how he got elected, he cannot even claim to represent even a
> fraction
> of the electorate.
>
> > > So your opinion is not representative for US nor the majority of the
US
> > > population and we should be very grateful for that.
> > >
> > > Hakan
> > >
> > >
> > > At 12:01 AM 9/15/2004, you wrote:
> > > >Since most of the world is more socialist than
> > > >democratic and does not like the US way of life in the
> > > >first place, of course they would want the candidate
> > > >that would be most destructive to the US.
> > > >
> > > >Just my opinion!
> > > >Wayne
>
> 
>
>
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RE: [Biofuel] US DOE examines long-term oil supply scenarios

[rlbarber]

> 1. "reserves until they are depleted"
> 2. "pollutants can be separated"
>
> Those two statements are greatly deserving of thought.
>
> Steve Spence
===
Actually in this case...not too bad. The coal is looked upon as if its not
going to be used anymore. So, if the reserves are depleted...like
depleting a pile of unused woodshavings next to a bark scraper...what
matters?

Now as far as the separation of pollutants thing is concerned with
gasification, you will be able to capture the nasty elements before they
escape up the stack AND combine them with other elements for saleable
items or made into benign items for backfilling the holes. The wonders of
marketing!

Ron B.
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Re: [Biofuel] Kerry preferred around World - Poll

[balaji]

Hello Luc, Hakan et al,

- Original Message -
From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 4:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kerry preferred around World - Poll

> Not only is there a lacking in undersanding of the world but also
> considering the so-called christian support for the illigitimate US
> government, one needs to only read what the Bible teaches and one would
see
> that It also is overtly socialistic and most definetly NOT materialistic
or
> in favour of hegemony upon the poor, so it's two strikes all the way
around.

All established religions teach the virtues of universal love, compassion,
consideration for the frail, the aged and the needy. Many of them enjoin
acts of charity, self abnegation and service to society as pious duty. It is
only later that the teachings get distorted by twisted mean souls that
hanker after the material and "pine for what is not".  A Christian cloak
does little to hide the growing rot of greed, deceit, and unbridled
arrogance of power that lies festering at the heart of the Iraq campaign.



Luc

> - Original Message -
> From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kerry preferred around World - Poll

> > Wayne,
> >
> > You have to work on your understanding of the world and systems.
Socialism
> > as system and idea is quite more democratic and respectful to human
rights
> > than the traditional US republican ideal. I hope that Bush is not
> > necessarily representative for US way of life, it is at least not my
> > experiences and it would be quite frightening if he was. Looking at
> > numbers, he cannot claim to represent even half of the US population.

Considering how he got elected, he cannot even claim to represent even a
fraction
of the electorate.

> > So your opinion is not representative for US nor the majority of the US
> > population and we should be very grateful for that.
> >
> > Hakan
> >
> >
> > At 12:01 AM 9/15/2004, you wrote:
> > >Since most of the world is more socialist than
> > >democratic and does not like the US way of life in the
> > >first place, of course they would want the candidate
> > >that would be most destructive to the US.
> > >
> > >Just my opinion!
> > >Wayne




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Re: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol

[balaji]

Hello Phil,

- Original Message -
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:09 PM
Subject: RE: Was Re: [Biofuel] Changing Government/Now ethanol


> Hello Phil
>
> >Hello all!
> >
> >Is there anyone out there who has tried running a petrol motor on
> >paraffin?  I know the timing needs retarding and that performance is
> >terrible, but here in Africa, the fuel is very, very cheap.
>
> I'm told it's done in Sri Lanka, probably in other countries. Maybe
> they start up on petrol (gasoline) ("in America they haven't spoken
> it for years"), but anyway they run a paraffin (kerosene) fuel line
> round the exhaust manifold to heat it up first. I think that means
> "hot", not just "warm". I guess they know just how to do it, and how
> not to do it too - probably not something to chuck guesses at.

We used to have many such engines in India called kero engines which were
fitted to motorbikes, mainly because of subsidised kerosene. One peculiarity
I noticed was that the engine continued to fire slowly and intermitently
long after the ignition was switched off.

> No, you certainly didn't ever hear such a thing from me, definitely not,
no.
>
> >What are the environmental implications of burning the stuff and
> >implications for engine life?

> Dire, probably, on both counts.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith
>

> >Phil Rendel
> >English Department
> >Kingswood College,
> >Burton Street,
> >Grahamstown
> >tel. 046 603 6600
> >fax. 046 622 3084
> >cell: 084 448 1052
>
> 
Regards
balaji


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Re: [Biofuel] Re: Fwd: David Ignatius cracks the code on the Big Bang strategy etc etc

[Keith Addison]

Tell you what, I really haven't looked, just glanced at the first few 
paras to get the drift, which didn't take long. But, if I were a 
betting man, I'd bet that you cut the Disinfopedia reference on 
Barnett, in your usual ostrich style. It's not much of a guess, after 
seeing you cut the same inconvenient bit twice in succession over 
your bizarre idea that the "TDI-SVO controversy" page (which you 
haven't read) in the SVO section at our site should be updated to 
reflect your concerns about not SVO but biodiesel. You think people 
don't notice it when you snip stuff repeatedly and pretend it doesn't 
exist anymore and never did? You think the archives doesn't notice? 
I'll admit it's possible that you don't notice, it does seem to be a 
bit compulsive.


Anyway, where's the Disinfopedia reference on Mr Barnett? Is it there or not?

Nope. No sign of it.

Funny that...

I'll leave you to it John.

Um... Re this:


I trashed the whole thing here:

http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040920/000423.html
[Biofuel] Fossil fuels fuel the politics

A lot of other people have trashed it previously, it's all in the 
archives. But no response from you - and you keep on posting the 
stuff.


It's dated 22 Sept. Today is 2 Oct.

The prior post, to which you thoughtfully responded, and which I 
haven't had time to respond to yet, was on the economics of 
globalization.


Yet? But you keep on posting the stuff. No - you deal with it FIRST.

The recent two were about the myth that the conflict between the 
West and the Arab world was about Islam. It isn't. It's about Islam 
being a convenient rallying cry and recruiting tool for regional 
despots.


They aren't the same "stuff", as you put it. I think you are 
throwing the baby out with the bathwater.


They're the same stuff from the same guy (see Disinfodedia, eg). 
Neo-liberal economics, neo-con geopolitics. Here he's arguing against 
Huntingdon, Larry Abraham et al, but he does so from the same narrow 
ground. Both sides of the argument are spurious, and rejected almost 
everywhere else outside of this narrow circle.


As with Andrew Marshall.

You seem to forgotten that Andrew Marshall is the *same* guy that 
commissioned the Pentagon report on global climate change. Seems to 
me we liked Marshall then. So the DoD and its strategic thinkers are 
inherently evil unless they publish things that agree with our 
worldview?


I'm well aware that Marshall authored the Pentagon's climate change 
piece (which the Pentagon then distanced itself from), and I've cited 
it a couple of times along with other things in saying even Bush's 
own people don't agree with him anymore, but why do you assume that 
means I agreed with it? I didn't agree with it, I very strongly 
disagreed with it. Have you read it? It's just what you'd expect from 
Marshall and his proteges - hey, this climate change stuff means we 
have to get ready to fight a whole new kind of war. Thus, while it 
accepted, sort of, that climate change might be real, it dealt with 
"sudden" climate change, ignoring most of the important issues to 
find a militarist angle. Crap.



We can do without this neocon militarist crap, if you please.


What happened to no topic cops? The stuff I posted was neither 
racially or religiously biased, nor hate mongering. It just happens 
to present a different view on global security.


That's right, no topic cops. And there's no conflict, though you're 
certainly going to do your best to create one. Open discussion, yes - 
but when people have posted "Wise Use" and corporate and militarist 
spin here it gets debunked and exposed, and is no longer welcome. The 
rules also say that "discussions should be even-handed and honest", 
and debunked spin doesn't qualify. Same with this stuff.


By the way, selective snipping does not accord with even-handed and 
honest discussion.


As for this:

Hmm. Sorry about that. Thunderbird was set to forward messages as 
attachments, not inline. Let me try that again.


Don't you know that? It's been said often enough. It's in the List 
rules, which you were sent when the list moved.


Yes, Keith, I am quite aware of the no attachment rule and the 
reasons behind it. As I said above, it was a software configuration 
problem I didn't notice on my first attempt. But hey, why give up a 
chance to condescend to the ugly American, right?


You can be quite a piece of work, eh? Well, if the cap fits, you can 
wear it if you like. Look at it again, what you wrote: "Thunderbird 
was set to forward messages as attachments, not inline. Let me try 
that again." Which could be and was read as meaning that you set it 
that way but it didn't work so you'll try again to get it to send it 
as an attachment. Anyway, I don't have a clue what Thunderbird is, 
thought it was a Ford, but your messages were a mess. They'll be a 
mess for ever more in the archives. And what that could possibly have 
to do with condescending to an ugly American is really q

Re: [Biofuel] Cheap oil

[bob allen]

hump"  in the process going from a net exporter to a net importer of 
crude oil. 


Hakan Falk wrote:



Walt,

The oil crisis in the 70's was triggered by the Israeli-Arab war and 
an attempt by the Oil producing countries to effect the world in this.


Hakan


At 07:53 PM 9/30/2004, you wrote:


At 08:51 AM 9/30/04 -0500, Ross wrote:
>I just encountered two articles at my library that strengthens my
>belief that we are beginning to see the end of cheap oil NOW from how
>we've always known it.

Good article with some interesting points, but I feel the 
need to quibble a bit.
The problem is that oil _is_ cheap, even at $50 a barrel because 
while a barrel of oil is real, the dollar is not.


The "oil crisis" of the '70s was triggered by Nixon's 
decision to remove the dollar's gold backing and OPEC's rational 
response to his decision. Now, we're facing a similar situation. The 
world is being flooded with dollar denominated debt, a tidal wave 
which is going to affect the dollar denominated "value" of all  
commodities.


People talk about "fifty dollar a barrel oil" as if "fifty 
dollars" means something. It doesn't. Each dollar is just a drop in a 
vast sea of unsupported, unredeemable debt, and as foreign investors 
start to catch on, the dollar is going to continue to fall in value. 
In short, it isn't so much a matter of the cost of oil going up, but 
rather the value of the dollar going down.


Walt




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--
--
Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob 
--

-
The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises
in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral
justification for selfishness  JKG 



---
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Re: [Biofuel] ultimate pump wash

[Jeff]

I would really be concerned with a system like this. If you are not careful on 
how it is set up, you will mix biodiesel and water as noted. When the water 
comes through the biodiesel, it may not separate before it is suck up by the 
pump again. I would be really careful of a system like this unless you have a 
big water supply for the water wash and it is deep and the pick up point of the 
water is well below where the biodiesel and water meet. 


I think you could accomplish the same thing by putting a copper pipe through 
the biodiesel to the water, at the bottom. The copper pipe could have holes 
drilled in it at the water line, some above and some below. Then you could 
drill a bigger hole at the bottom of the copper pipe. Then you could run an air 
line through the pipe and bring it back around and put it in the hole at the 
bottom of the pipe and make sure the air hose is looking up. This way you could 
have the ultimate bubble wash as the air bubbles would bring the water from the 
bottom of the processor to the top and the water would go out the holes drilled 
at the top of the pipe and clean the biodiesel as it trickle backs down. 

As previously stated, you should make sure that the pipe is well below the 
point were biodiesel and water meet so you won't suck up any biodiesel and 
start to mix them up.

Jeff



From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ultimate pump wash
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Hello Luc

It's no ordinary watering can head:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html
Journey to Forever 90-litre processor

Scroll down to "processor lid".

But all you need is the principle, of course, then adapt what you can 
find to do the same job in your set-up. As you're doing.

I'm not quite clear on it though. "The water gets pumped up and then 
falls like rain all over the surface of the BD" - only the water? Or 
are you pumping BD as well, or mixed BD and water? If it's only the 
water, all you have is a sort of glorified mist-washer, with rain 
rather than mist. Well, maybe that's okay. But I'd've thought a pump 
would pull liquid out of the bottom faster than the water raining on 
top will percolate down, isn't it pulling BD as well, and mixing the 
water and BD? Is the BD getting mixed with water, or just rained on?

regards

Keith



>OK, this time I think I just might have gotten it :) I was 
>re-reading through the 90 liter processor at JtF as I recalled 
>something about a shower head being used.
>Well, it turned out to be a watering can head, but same idea.
>I have set up a system where the water is pumped up from the exit 
>pipe in the Standpipe design
>http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=333) to 
>the top of the wash tank and there it is distributed via a "T" 
>section to fall like rain over the BD. It works, but still not to my 
>satisfaction. Enter the watering can idea. Instead of the "T" 
>section with perferated hose actiing as a distributor tomorow I am 
>on the hunt for a pair of large, flat shower heads that can be used 
>instead. That should do it once and for all. The water gets pumped 
>up  and then falls like rain all over the surface of the BD washing 
>it as it sinks to the bottom and gets pumped back up again and again 
>and again.
>And that should about do it for the Ultimate Pump Wash :) Other 
>methods might work better but with the very limited head space I 
>have to work with this it is for me. I will post an update (even if 
>it doesn't work... but it will, ha!)
>I figure that with TWO shower heads the entire area should be 
>suficiently covered so as to do a good job, and that is the only 
>thing I will be satisfied with, a GOOD job.
>
>Luc



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RE: [Biofuel] US DOE examines long-term oil supply scenarios

[Steve Spence]

1. "reserves until they are depleted"
2. "pollutants can be separated"

Those two statements are greatly deserving of thought.

Steve Spence


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 10:29 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] US DOE examines long-term oil supply scenarios

> I wonder where he thinks they will get the hydrogen from, and how much
> he thinks folks will be willing to pay for it .
>
> Steve Spence
>

Steve,

If its the UK you are referring to, how about their unused inferior coal
reserves until they are depleted? Laid-off coal miners would be happy
for
work again and pollutants can be separated from the stream BEFORE the
energy is consumed, unlike trying to capture pollants post combustion as
in conventional coal burning.

Try these links for more:
http://www.zeca.org/
http://www.princeton.edu/~chm333/2002/fall/co_two/minerals/zec.htm#_ftn4
http://www.aig.asn.au/News_2003/zero_emissions.htm

The above concept is just that...conceptual.
One article said the two disadvantages of using coal are:
1) transport and storage of the hydrogen after production-->this would
be
the case for any hydrogen production process that would be for vehicle
use, I suspect.

2) 'scarring' of the earth surface from surface mining ('open cast' for
the Europeans). This has largely become a non-issue when government
regulations are strictly enforced. First hand observation in Wyoming's
Powder River Basin and the Buelah area in North Dakota can attest to
that.

Ron B.
===
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Johnston, Don
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 11:23 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [Biofuel] US DOE examines long-term oil supply scenarios
>
> Guys, I discussed the issue of 'known oil reserves' with Ray Noble,
who
> is in charge of the UK's BP SOLAR Programme. I raised the issue that
the
> 'reserve window' kept expanding, ie when the oil companies were down
to
> 20-25 years 'known' reserves, all of a sudden they found more, and
> consequently the known reserve window expands to a new time horizon.
Ray
> acknowledged that this used to be the case but affirmed that all the
> major oil companies now knew where ALL the oil and gas was, and that
> there was no more to be found, it was simply a matter of how easy ,or
> how expensive it was going to be to extract from each reserve.
>  He then went on to affirm that, and I try to quote from memory, 'that
> BP does not expect to be selling petrol, diesel, or LPG on its station
> forecourts by 2035, it expects to be selling hydrogen.'.
>   I have absolutely no wish to upset this biodiesel fraternity,
> but note that he did not say to me that BP expects to be selling
> biodiesel. This was only a couple of years ago.curious.
>
> Don Johnston
> Environmental Coordinator , Portsmouth City Council
> Chair, Solent Energy and Environment Management Group
>
> Winner ; National Champion-Science and Technology, Green Apple Awards
> 2002
>
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Tel: 023 9283 4247

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Re: [Biofuel] Re: Fwd: David Ignatius cracks the code on the Big Bang strategy etc etc

[John Hayes]

This is junk, John, and noxious with it.



It's not true comment, he just 
pontificates, it's a reinterpretation, a reshaping of what's otherwise 
quite clear enough so that it might manage to balance itself somehow 
contrary to the laws of nature on the steeply skewed angle he'd call a 
"level playing field", like the corporate "globalists" he supports.


I'd agree that he pontificates at times in his blog. But you are 
painting with a pretty broad brush here. From the interviews and blogs 
I've read, there is some novel thinking and scholarship going on here. 
Haven't noticed a lot of pro-corporate globalization talk yet; just some 
talk on the importance of direct foreign investment over foreign aid. I 
haven't gotten around to reading the book yet, but when I do, I'll be on 
the lookout.


That's not globalisation, it's corporate globalisation, an entirely 
different matter - neo-liberal dinosaurs, is all. I trashed the whole 
thing here:


http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040920/000423.html
[Biofuel] Fossil fuels fuel the politics

A lot of other people have trashed it previously, it's all in the 
archives. But no response from you - and you keep on posting the stuff.


The prior post, to which you thoughtfully responded, and which I haven't 
had time to respond to yet, was on the economics of globalization.


The recent two were about the myth that the conflict between the West 
and the Arab world was about Islam. It isn't. It's about Islam being a 
convenient rallying cry and recruiting tool for regional despots.


They aren't the same "stuff", as you put it. I think you are throwing 
the baby out with the bathwater.


Barnett's just one of Andrew Marshall's much derided "Jedi knights", 
along with Marhall's other protŽgŽs, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, all 
the usual suspects. 


You seem to forgotten that Andrew Marshall is the *same* guy that 
commissioned the Pentagon report on global climate change. Seems to me 
we liked Marshall then. So the DoD and its strategic thinkers are 
inherently evil unless they publish things that agree with our worldview?


As far as lumping Barnett in with Cheney et al, I guess that's why Barnett:

*thinks Bush is the wrong leader for the next 4 years.
*wants to develop a systematic set of policies for rebuilding stable 
democracies postconflict
*thinks multinational and NGO support are key to sucessful transition to 
  democracy



Barnett's a militarist, thick as treacle with the
Pentagon, the RAND Corporation and so on... Just another apologist for 
pre-emptive war. He has no credibility whatsoever commenting on these 
affairs, it's hopelessly slanted, spin and worse.



Talk about viewing the world through a keyhole. Let me put a finer point 
on it: merely working at the Naval War College as an academician does 
not invalidate one's credibility to discuss global security. If 
anything, it enhances it by virtue of being able to interact with both 
the people that make US foreign policy and the people that have to 
implement said policy.


Since before the Marshall plan, the US has been involved on the world 
stage both economically and politically. Whether or not people would 
like the US to pack up its toys and go home, it just isn't gonna happen. 
So given that reality, would you rather have Cold War Hawks gearing up 
for a 'near-peer competitor' that is never going to arrive while 
neglecting appropriate planning for operations other than war, or would 
you prefer to see the US work *with* the world to develop new policies, 
proceedures and organizations so we never have another debacle like Iraq?


Personally, I'll take the latter.



http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Thomas_P.M._Barnett
Thomas P.M. Barnett - Disinfopedia

"Outside of his War College duties, he also provides policy/management 
consulting as an independent contractor to various private 
corporations and research organizations." See Barnett's full resume 
and web site for details. Also see Barnett's consultant listing.


I don't see how consulting for Cantor Fitzgerald and others on global 
security issues invalidates one's ability to comment on global security. 
Or does consulting for Wall St automatically taint ones ability to be a 
security analyst?



We can do without this neocon militarist crap, if you please.


What happened to no topic cops? The stuff I posted was neither racially 
or religiously biased, nor hate mongering. It just happens to present a 
different view on global security.


Also, is Bartnett a Neo-con or Neo-liberal? You've implied both and I 
need to know which label to apply so I can summarily dismiss him without 
further thought.



By the way...

Hmm. Sorry about that. Thunderbird was set to forward messages as 
attachments, not inline. Let me try that again.


Don't you know 
that? It's been said often enough. It's in the List rules, which you 
were sent when the list moved.


Yes, Keith, I am quite aware of the no attachment rule and t

Re: [Biofuel] Israel's "Terrorists"

[fox mulder]

 --- Legal Eagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 7:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Israel's "Terrorists"
> 
> 
> >
> > Luc,
> >
> > Small problem, even if the Christians, the Muslims
> and the Jews have the
> > same God, it is only the Christians who recognize
> and bother about what
> > Jesus said.
> 
> Not true, Islam recognizes Jesus as a Prophet and
> cares a great deal about
> what He said. Islam also concurs with the virgin
> birth of Mary and also
> agree with the Christian belief that Jesus will
> return, however the
> Talmudists have Him boiling in hot excrement in
> hell, and Mary, His mother,
> an adultress who fornicated with a Roman soldier
> from where Jesus was
> conceived, a bastard son.
>  Those are, of course, major differences.
> 
> Since Israel is one of the few states who are based
> on and
> > declared as a religious state for the Jews
> (therefore not democratic),
> 
> Sorry, but wrong again. Israel was to be a
> "homeland" for those calling
> themsleves "jews" and was only created after the
> Zionists coerced Britain
> into the Balfour Declaration which was later
> ratified by the UN, officially
> giving a chunk of Palestine to the Zionists for a
> "jewish homeland". The
> "religious" aspect was an afterthought and not part
> of the original intent,
> althopugh generally accepted as such.
> There are still today many many of those calling
> themselves "jews" who do
> not recognise the political state of Israel nor it's
> crimes as being
> legitimately appologizable.
> 
> >I am afraid that they do not care about Jesus
> either. This means that
> Israel cannot be counted as belonging to the
> "Christian enablers",
> 
> No one is suggesting that those who live in Israel
> and call themselves
> "jews" are the "enablers"; that reference was to
> those so-called christians
> in the US's major churches who have overwhelmingly
> endorced and financed the
> Iraq atrocity in complete disaccord with the
> teachings of Christ.
> 
> >but they do  activities that some would call war,
> others would call it
> occupation,
> > persecution, and discrimination against population
> in occupied areas, in
> > itself a war crime according to international law.
> I does not really
> > matter, since neither US or Israel recognize the
> court who would enforce
> > such international laws, at least when it suits
> them. The same with the UN
> > authority. The deck of cards is stacked and it is
> nothing that anyone can
> > do about it, other than accept it in front of the
> barrel of the gun
> 
> Mao's little red book had it well, quoting the famed
> Chinese leader as
> stating,"Peace is best achieved by the barrel of the
> gun". Great minds think
> alike huh?
> 
> >and the threat that Americans will stop eating
> foreign food, like "French
> fried".
> > The latter did not work and the US version of
> those "French fried
> potatoes"
> > would not be passed by a French chef anyway, so
> why bother.
> 
> The "bother" is that when these killers of the
> innocent try to tell us via
> their controlled lap dogs that they are only
> attacking "terrorists" and that
> is a blatant outright lie, and it is this lie that
> deserves to be exposed,
> as well as those who support it and propagate it,
> not to mention the
> so-called rational that they use as justification
> for such acts of
> barbarism.
> 
> Luc
> 
> >
> > Hakan
> >
> > At 12:55 AM 10/1/2004, you wrote:
> >
> > >Here is yet one more article showing those dirty
> "terrorists" that Israel
> > >loves to hunt down.
> > >
> >
>
>http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=94b841fa40055601
> > >
> > >Ah, the brave IDF and it's US supporters and
> so-called "christian"
> > >enablers. What champions of right and
> righteousness !
> > >
> > >What did Jesus say ?
> > >"Suffer the little children to come unto me for
> OF SUCH is the kingdom of
> > >Heaven", but do these phoney so-call christian
> enablers of wars and
> > >slaughter interpret that ?- "make the little
> chikldren suffer". Sick
> bastards.
> > >
> > >Luc
dear Luc i agree with most of the things you have
said. i feel for all the people who suffered in the
hands of the  oppresser.
people read in the bible that jews should live in the
palestinians land. so, they steal palestineans land
and displace them as refugees. as the wold is so
unjust, i am so pessimistic about the human race.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Biofuel mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
> > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
> >
> 
> 
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> Biofuel at J

RE: [Biofuel] US DOE examines long-term oil supply scenarios

[rlbarber]

> I wonder where he thinks they will get the hydrogen from, and how much
> he thinks folks will be willing to pay for it .
>
> Steve Spence
>

Steve,

If its the UK you are referring to, how about their unused inferior coal
reserves until they are depleted? Laid-off coal miners would be happy for
work again and pollutants can be separated from the stream BEFORE the
energy is consumed, unlike trying to capture pollants post combustion as
in conventional coal burning.

Try these links for more:
http://www.zeca.org/
http://www.princeton.edu/~chm333/2002/fall/co_two/minerals/zec.htm#_ftn4
http://www.aig.asn.au/News_2003/zero_emissions.htm

The above concept is just that...conceptual.
One article said the two disadvantages of using coal are:
1) transport and storage of the hydrogen after production-->this would be
the case for any hydrogen production process that would be for vehicle
use, I suspect.

2) 'scarring' of the earth surface from surface mining ('open cast' for
the Europeans). This has largely become a non-issue when government
regulations are strictly enforced. First hand observation in Wyoming's
Powder River Basin and the Buelah area in North Dakota can attest to that.

Ron B.
===
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Johnston, Don
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 11:23 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [Biofuel] US DOE examines long-term oil supply scenarios
>
> Guys, I discussed the issue of 'known oil reserves' with Ray Noble, who
> is in charge of the UK's BP SOLAR Programme. I raised the issue that the
> 'reserve window' kept expanding, ie when the oil companies were down to
> 20-25 years 'known' reserves, all of a sudden they found more, and
> consequently the known reserve window expands to a new time horizon. Ray
> acknowledged that this used to be the case but affirmed that all the
> major oil companies now knew where ALL the oil and gas was, and that
> there was no more to be found, it was simply a matter of how easy ,or
> how expensive it was going to be to extract from each reserve.
>  He then went on to affirm that, and I try to quote from memory, 'that
> BP does not expect to be selling petrol, diesel, or LPG on its station
> forecourts by 2035, it expects to be selling hydrogen.'.
>   I have absolutely no wish to upset this biodiesel fraternity,
> but note that he did not say to me that BP expects to be selling
> biodiesel. This was only a couple of years ago.curious.
>
> Don Johnston
> Environmental Coordinator , Portsmouth City Council
> Chair, Solent Energy and Environment Management Group
>
> Winner ; National Champion-Science and Technology, Green Apple Awards
> 2002
>
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Tel: 023 9283 4247

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RE: [Biofuel] Question about biodiesel

[Steve Spence]

My '83 vw rabbit does, but my Detroit Diesel generator does not.

Steve Spence
www.green-trust.org


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Legal Eagle
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 9:52 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Question about biodiesel

It is my understanding that ALL diesels need a glow plug ignition of
some
sort.
Luc
- Original Message - 
From: "frag lag" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 1:21 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Question about biodiesel


> i have an old italian compression diesel here (500cc) , a no runner at
the
> moment , would biodiesel work in it or do i need an ignition source
> (glowplug)
>
> _
> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
> ___
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RE: [Biofuel] Deuterium: The Alternative Power Source

[Christopher]

Hi Peggy:

There's no problem with me with hydrogen and all the posibilities. It's
these people and their intention that I am worried about. It's people like
these that makes our country so messed up as it is.

Everyone in this country is trying to scam the hell out of each other and
denying it. Just how can we change for the better? We have Filipinos
scamming Filipinos. We have Filipinos scamming the Filipino-Chinese. We have
Filipino-Chinese scamming Filipinos. We have Filipino-Chinese scamming
Filipino-Chinese. We have government officials scamming tax money and
everything else. We have Filipinos and Filipino-Chinese cheating on their
taxes. I could go on and on. And, now we have Filipino overseas workers
scamming other Filipino overseas workers.

Regards,
Christopher

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Peggy
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 4:02 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Deuterium: The Alternative Power Source


Hello skeptics,

The rejection letters for the hydrogen website seem a bit as far-fetched
or understudied as the prospectus.  These people say that they sell
fueling stations from hydrogen collected from an outside source and that
the fueling stations are the focus of their business plan.  Since the
number one problem with hydrogen collection (as I understand it) is the
retention or storage process, then a collection system is a priority in
forwarding a hydrogen-based fuel.  However, if you have blown this
person's cover with understanding "a fake premises" of material to be
collected, then you are wise to do so.  However, I don't see much
discussion on the collection (storage) unit itself, which should be the
real issue.  Can anyone explain the collection (storage) design
potential or any hydrogen collection/ storage design system?

Now, I do know two men who have invented generators that produce
hydrogen from ocean wave energy and therefore are indirectly turning
ocean water into hydrogen.  There are also a number of legitimate
competitors for ocean-wave generators.  My friends can discuss their
findings with potential associates.  Their latest patent is co-funded by
the State of Florida and underwent extensive investigation of the pilot
project prior to funding.  The two scientists who have developed these
generators are highly recognized scientists/ physicists.  One is a
retired professor from the College of Public Health, University of South
Florida who was previously on the Van Braun team as a Ph.D. physicist.
His son, who is the generator specialist, is a NASA scientist.  And yes,
their generators do produce hydrogen from the energy of ocean waves.  I
can refer interested parties directly to their president for more
information.  Since I'm not sure just how much is proprietary in their
research and development, you should ask your questions directly to the
source.  What they need at this time is affordable collection and
storage units and they are willing to collaborate with any of you
imaginative enthusiasts that can cooperate.  So... who has a
workable design for collection and storage?

Best wishes,
Peggy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christopher
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 5:05 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Deuterium: The Alternative Power Source

I went to their website to investigate. Just where do this people get
their
information? Who did the surveying of the "deposits"? It takes so much
more
to make a believer out of me. They can't even get their facts straight.
Just
see the attached messages below form Prof. Bob Allen and the others.

It seems to me that these people are out to make "milking cows" out of
poor
Filipino overseas workers  with the help of stupid govermnent officials
who
would readily sell their soul to the devil.

These people make me sick. I hope they burn in h**l with deuterium gas.

Just what is your part in this, Mr. Villaruz?

Christopher

From: George Smiley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 1:02 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] DEUTERIUM: Philippines' Economic Solutions


To be polite, this is total crap, a variation on the old 'free energy
from
the hydrogen in water' scam.  Besides being very rare and difficult to
extract, deuterium electolyses, burns and in short has exactly the same
chemical properties as ordinary hydrogen.  Which is why it is  hard to
isolate.  And heavy water is only a few percent heavier than ordinary
water
and doesn't stratify.  Don't send these guys any money.

Original Message-
From: Greg Harbican [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 6:44 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] DEUTERIUM: Philippines' Economic Solutions


I agree.  A tall tale for sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_water

Heavy water is dideuterium oxide, or D2O or 2H2O. It is chemically the
same
as normal water, H2

RE: [Biofuel] US DOE examines long-term oil supply scenarios

[Steve Spence]

I wonder where he thinks they will get the hydrogen from, and how much
he thinks folks will be willing to pay for it .

Steve Spence

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Johnston, Don
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 11:23 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] US DOE examines long-term oil supply scenarios

Guys, I discussed the issue of 'known oil reserves' with Ray Noble, who
is in charge of the UK's BP SOLAR Programme. I raised the issue that the
'reserve window' kept expanding, ie when the oil companies were down to
20-25 years 'known' reserves, all of a sudden they found more, and
consequently the known reserve window expands to a new time horizon. Ray
acknowledged that this used to be the case but affirmed that all the
major oil companies now knew where ALL the oil and gas was, and that
there was no more to be found, it was simply a matter of how easy ,or
how expensive it was going to be to extract from each reserve.
 He then went on to affirm that, and I try to quote from memory, 'that
BP does not expect to be selling petrol, diesel, or LPG on its station
forecourts by 2035, it expects to be selling hydrogen.'.
I have absolutely no wish to upset this biodiesel fraternity,
but note that he did not say to me that BP expects to be selling
biodiesel. This was only a couple of years ago.curious. 

Don Johnston
Environmental Coordinator , Portsmouth City Council
Chair, Solent Energy and Environment Management Group

Winner ; National Champion-Science and Technology, Green Apple Awards
2002

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
Tel: 023 9283 4247


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Keith Addison
Sent: 30 September 2004 15:14
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] US DOE examines long-term oil supply scenarios


DieselNet UPDATE
September 2004
http://www.dieselnet.com/


US DOE examines long-term oil supply scenarios

The Energy Information Administration (EIA) of the US Department of 
Energy (DOE) has released a study that examined long-term supply 
scenarios for world petroleum. Under the most likely scenario-- 
assuming a 2% annual growth rate for world's oil demand and the mean 
value for the amount of oil reserves--the study predicts that 
petroleum production will reach its peak in 2037.

The study is a re-release of an oil supply prognosis originally 
published in July 2000, prompted in part by the increasing fuel 
prices in the USA. There has been no new information or developments 
that would significantly alter the year 2000 results, stated the EIA. 
The study is based on estimates of world's oil resources by the US 
Geological Survey. The EIA estimated that the world's growth in oil 
demand will be 1.9% through 2025.

The critical event in world oil production will be when it reaches 
its peak. The following decline in oil production would leave some 
oil demand unsatisfied, likely leading to significant price 
increases. The date of the peak depends on the rate of demand growth 
and assumed reserves. Twelve scenarios were examined in the study, 
for different oil demand growth rate (0-3%) and different oil 
reserves. The potential dates for the peak oil production ranged from 
2021 to 2112.

Only conventionally reservoired crude oil reserves were analyzed in 
the study. Additional petroleum supply is expected from 
unconventional sources. Commercial production has already started 
from such sources as the Canadian tar sands and Venezuelan heavy oils.

While the EIA analysis is less alarming than some other reports, its 
authors noted that the results do not justify complacency about both 
supply- and demand-side research and development.

The EIA also prepares short-term energy outlook reports, published 
monthly. In the most recent September issue, the EIA revised the 
projected world oil demand growth for 2004 to 3.2% (from a previous 
prediction of 2.5%) above the 2003 demand. Strong demand from China 
accounts for much of the upward revision. Global oil demand growth in 
2005 is expected to slow down to 2.4% due to the increased oil prices.

Long term outlook:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/feature_articles/2004/wor 
ldoilsupply/oilsupply04.html

Short term outlook:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/contents.html
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RE: [Biofuel] Deuterium: The Alternative Power Source

[Peggy]

Hello skeptics,

The rejection letters for the hydrogen website seem a bit as far-fetched
or understudied as the prospectus.  These people say that they sell
fueling stations from hydrogen collected from an outside source and that
the fueling stations are the focus of their business plan.  Since the
number one problem with hydrogen collection (as I understand it) is the
retention or storage process, then a collection system is a priority in
forwarding a hydrogen-based fuel.  However, if you have blown this
person's cover with understanding "a fake premises" of material to be
collected, then you are wise to do so.  However, I don't see much
discussion on the collection (storage) unit itself, which should be the
real issue.  Can anyone explain the collection (storage) design
potential or any hydrogen collection/ storage design system?

Now, I do know two men who have invented generators that produce
hydrogen from ocean wave energy and therefore are indirectly turning
ocean water into hydrogen.  There are also a number of legitimate
competitors for ocean-wave generators.  My friends can discuss their
findings with potential associates.  Their latest patent is co-funded by
the State of Florida and underwent extensive investigation of the pilot
project prior to funding.  The two scientists who have developed these
generators are highly recognized scientists/ physicists.  One is a
retired professor from the College of Public Health, University of South
Florida who was previously on the Van Braun team as a Ph.D. physicist.
His son, who is the generator specialist, is a NASA scientist.  And yes,
their generators do produce hydrogen from the energy of ocean waves.  I
can refer interested parties directly to their president for more
information.  Since I'm not sure just how much is proprietary in their
research and development, you should ask your questions directly to the
source.  What they need at this time is affordable collection and
storage units and they are willing to collaborate with any of you
imaginative enthusiasts that can cooperate.  So... who has a
workable design for collection and storage?

Best wishes,
Peggy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christopher
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 5:05 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Deuterium: The Alternative Power Source

I went to their website to investigate. Just where do this people get
their
information? Who did the surveying of the "deposits"? It takes so much
more
to make a believer out of me. They can't even get their facts straight.
Just
see the attached messages below form Prof. Bob Allen and the others.

It seems to me that these people are out to make "milking cows" out of
poor
Filipino overseas workers  with the help of stupid govermnent officials
who
would readily sell their soul to the devil.

These people make me sick. I hope they burn in h**l with deuterium gas.

Just what is your part in this, Mr. Villaruz?

Christopher

From: George Smiley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 1:02 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] DEUTERIUM: Philippines' Economic Solutions


To be polite, this is total crap, a variation on the old 'free energy
from
the hydrogen in water' scam.  Besides being very rare and difficult to
extract, deuterium electolyses, burns and in short has exactly the same
chemical properties as ordinary hydrogen.  Which is why it is  hard to
isolate.  And heavy water is only a few percent heavier than ordinary
water
and doesn't stratify.  Don't send these guys any money.

Original Message-
From: Greg Harbican [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 6:44 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] DEUTERIUM: Philippines' Economic Solutions


I agree.  A tall tale for sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_water

Heavy water is dideuterium oxide, or D2O or 2H2O. It is chemically the
same
as normal water, H2O, but the hydrogen atoms are of the heavy isotope
deuterium, in which the nucleus contains a neutron in addition to the
proton
found in the nucleus of any hydrogen atom. Semiheavy water, HDO, also
exists. Gilbert Newton Lewis isolated the first sample of pure heavy
water
in 1933.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_water#Production

On Earth, heavy water occurs naturally in regular water at a proportion
of
roughly one part in 6,000. It may be separated from regular water by
distillation or electrolysis. In each case the slight difference in
molecular weight produces a slight difference in the speed at which the
reaction proceeds. To produce pure heavy water a large cascade of stills
or
electrolysis chambers is required, and large amounts of electric power
are
consumed.

I wonder were all the power is going to come from?

Greg H.

-Original Message-
From: bob allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:00 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] 

Re: [Biofuel] Israel's "Terrorists"

[Frantz DESPREZ]

(snip...)

I'm totally agree with Luc



UN authority is only as good as the consensus of its members.  A 
couple of years ago, I posted a list of all the resolutions passed 
against the state of Israel that have been systematically dismissed or 
ignored.  


by USA first

This could not happen without the veto power of my country in the 
Security Council.





My mother, who considers herself a patriot, sent me a political 
cartoon depicting a sniveling UN official asking a collection of 
hysterically laughing mullahs to "please stop your Iranian nuclear 
weapons program".  The nasty undercurrent of that cartoon is that 
these "laughing mullahs" can only be stopped from possessing nuclear 
weapons by force.


may be yes.
Why Bush didn't attacked North Korea or Pakistan ?



We have that force, and there are leaders in my country with the 
will to utilize it.  They believe that by doing so, they are doing the 
will of God.  We are living in the midst of a very frightening time in 
world history.


Yes, you have the force but European countries never said that USA 
should not use it. France and Germany only said that it must serve the 
International Right. UN have only the force provided by its members. UN 
are weak partly because the US don't give their contribution.
Of course the Americans , or any people in the world, don't have to ask 
permission to defend themselves. But they should if they want to act out 
of their borders, bringing war in a sovereign country. The world is not 
a jungle. Believe that savage capitalism or the law of the stronger will 
solve every problems and provides the happyness to all mankind is only a 
quasi-religious wish. If it's not to help people in their pursuit of 
happiness but only to make a happy few richer at any cost, then this 
belief must be fight. Of course everybody loves freedom, but the freedom 
of ones stops where begins the freedom of the others. US republicans 
must understand that all men are born equals. The life of an american is 
not more important than the life of any other human being. Believing 
that WASP or Jews (or anybody else) are elected by God among humanity is 
dangerous and leads to worst (genocides...). What is good for USA is not 
automatically good for the world. Bush should not threaten the world for 
domestic convenience. And if he does so, he shouldn't be surprised to be 
hated by the main part of the world. I'm so sorry to see how the US 
image is turning bad here, in Europe. My sister in law is american and 
moved to France after 11/09. She's also worried to see how many French 
are considering  the average american citizen since Bush is president... 
We do not understand this policy and how the US voters can swallow such 
lies and manichean sight of the world. Bush administration seems to 
follow a policy based on religious faith and economic dogma, obviously 
not on facts and people interests. It's not better than the mollahs who 
also say "in God we trust" and the others are Evil. I was chatting this 
morning with co-workers who asked "are the US voters like him, 
dangerous, selfish, cynical, narrow-minded, fanatic, cupid, simply 
stupid or deaf and blind ?". This way to make war on terrorism is the 
best way to make more terrorism. So much violence and brutality. So much 
money so badly spent...
But let's back on biofuel subject : at last Kyoto protocol has been 
ratified and the US industry will be obliged to make efforts to compete 
with more virtuous companies especially in Europe. It should be good for 
the planet...and the americans who are living on. Despite their government.
Biofuel is suspected to be a carbon wells but with a bad ecological 
balance when produced even from organic and extensive agriculture if far 
from consumption places and if the fuel needs heavy process.
One of the only ecologicaly interresting way right now is in a "short 
circuit" meaning local organic production of vegetal oil and local 
consumption in basic diesel motors (or more efficient special built ones)
In France, this is not the govt choice. Preference has been given to the 
solutions from big oil compagny (Diester from colza or Ethanol from 
industrial grown sugar beetroot , processed and distributed by 
Total-Elf-Fina / compagnie franaise des pŽtroles). The small home 
producers of biofuel are prosecuted. The ministry of finance considered 
the vegetal oil as petroleum product if solded and mixed with other 
fuel, and taxed it at more than 70% ! That makes non-sense so the new 
ministry of ecology is trying to solve this. Actually, the only way to 
use biofuel is to buy edible vegetal oil (or alcohol) and use it as fuel 
or to produce and use its own biofuel, without declare it. But no way to 
earn money with it for the moment, even with very high fossil fuels prices.


I'm trying to find links to french speaking websites about biofuels with 
english translations.
Please excuse my bad english. hope this not contribute to misunde

Re: [Biofuel] ultimate pump wash

[Legal Eagle]

- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 12:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ultimate pump wash


> Hello Luc
>
> It's no ordinary watering can head:

Yup, I know, I already checked that out and followed the links; neat!

>
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html
> Journey to Forever 90-litre processor
>
> Scroll down to "processor lid".
>
> But all you need is the principle, of course, then adapt what you can
> find to do the same job in your set-up. As you're doing.
>
> I'm not quite clear on it though. "The water gets pumped up and then
> falls like rain all over the surface of the BD" - only the water? Or
> are you pumping BD as well, or mixed BD and water? If it's only the
> water, all you have is a sort of glorified mist-washer, with rain
> rather than mist. Well, maybe that's okay. But I'd've thought a pump
> would pull liquid out of the bottom faster than the water raining on
> top will percolate down, isn't it pulling BD as well, and mixing the
> water and BD? Is the BD getting mixed with water, or just rained on?
>

Unfortunately it is only a glorified mist washer and the pump, a Pony Pump,
doesn't quite suck fast and hard enough to get at the BD and water to give
it as good a mix as a paint stirrer will.
Once this set up installed and functional as is the next part of the set up
will include a secondary settling tank for next Spring and this one WILL
have a stirring mechanism as it will be "outside the box", so-to-speak :) so
head space will not be a concern and I can set up an inverted drill press on
a stand or whatever with an extended paint stirrer or other makeshift
apparatus that will give it the heave ho, but for now I have to make this
present system functional without bubbling and this "rain" thing seems to be
the only way to do it. given the space available to work with.
Like I said, it does work, howbeit not as well as I would like, and so I am
dogedly staying the course until I discover something that does work
perfectly well for the application.
Sticktoitivenes and perseverance are not things I lack, although they can
also be a fault :) if blind.

Luc

> regards
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> >OK, this time I think I just might have gotten it :) I was
> >re-reading through the 90 liter processor at JtF as I recalled
> >something about a shower head being used.
> >Well, it turned out to be a watering can head, but same idea.
> >I have set up a system where the water is pumped up from the exit
> >pipe in the Standpipe design
> >http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=333) to
> >the top of the wash tank and there it is distributed via a "T"
> >section to fall like rain over the BD. It works, but still not to my
> >satisfaction. Enter the watering can idea. Instead of the "T"
> >section with perferated hose actiing as a distributor tomorow I am
> >on the hunt for a pair of large, flat shower heads that can be used
> >instead. That should do it once and for all. The water gets pumped
> >up  and then falls like rain all over the surface of the BD washing
> >it as it sinks to the bottom and gets pumped back up again and again
> >and again.
> >And that should about do it for the Ultimate Pump Wash :) Other
> >methods might work better but with the very limited head space I
> >have to work with this it is for me. I will post an update (even if
> >it doesn't work... but it will, ha!)
> >I figure that with TWO shower heads the entire area should be
> >suficiently covered so as to do a good job, and that is the only
> >thing I will be satisfied with, a GOOD job.
> >
> >Luc
>
> ___
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>
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> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
>


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RE: [Biofuel] Deuterium: The Alternative Power Source

[Christopher]

I went to their website to investigate. Just where do this people get their
information? Who did the surveying of the "deposits"? It takes so much more
to make a believer out of me. They can't even get their facts straight. Just
see the attached messages below form Prof. Bob Allen and the others.

It seems to me that these people are out to make "milking cows" out of poor
Filipino overseas workers  with the help of stupid govermnent officials who
would readily sell their soul to the devil.

These people make me sick. I hope they burn in h**l with deuterium gas.

Just what is your part in this, Mr. Villaruz?

Christopher

From: George Smiley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 1:02 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] DEUTERIUM: Philippines' Economic Solutions


To be polite, this is total crap, a variation on the old 'free energy from
the hydrogen in water' scam.  Besides being very rare and difficult to
extract, deuterium electolyses, burns and in short has exactly the same
chemical properties as ordinary hydrogen.  Which is why it is  hard to
isolate.  And heavy water is only a few percent heavier than ordinary water
and doesn't stratify.  Don't send these guys any money.

Original Message-
From: Greg Harbican [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 6:44 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] DEUTERIUM: Philippines' Economic Solutions


I agree.  A tall tale for sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_water

Heavy water is dideuterium oxide, or D2O or 2H2O. It is chemically the same
as normal water, H2O, but the hydrogen atoms are of the heavy isotope
deuterium, in which the nucleus contains a neutron in addition to the proton
found in the nucleus of any hydrogen atom. Semiheavy water, HDO, also
exists. Gilbert Newton Lewis isolated the first sample of pure heavy water
in 1933.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_water#Production

On Earth, heavy water occurs naturally in regular water at a proportion of
roughly one part in 6,000. It may be separated from regular water by
distillation or electrolysis. In each case the slight difference in
molecular weight produces a slight difference in the speed at which the
reaction proceeds. To produce pure heavy water a large cascade of stills or
electrolysis chambers is required, and large amounts of electric power are
consumed.

I wonder were all the power is going to come from?

Greg H.

-Original Message-
From: bob allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:00 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] DEUTERIUM: Philippines' Economic Solutions


Deuterium has one proton and one neutron in the nucleus.  Tritium , a
beta emitter with a half-life of about 12.5 years, had two neutrons and
one proton in the nucleus.  Tritium is the hydrogen of a hydrogen bomb.


Christopher wrote:

>I don't mean to be suspicious but I wonder why the name of the proponent
was
>witheld? Another tall tale?
>
>If I remember it correctly, deuterium is NOT water without oxygen.
Deuterium
>is an isotope of hydrogen. A hydrogen atom would normally have a proton and
>an electron only. Deuterium on the other hand has a proton, two neutrons
and
>an electron. HEAVY WATER would be water(H2O) that has one or two 3H nuclide
>and an oxygen atom.
>
>Regards,
>
>


 Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistry
 http://ozarker.org/bob

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of nbv
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 8:58 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] Deuterium: The Alternative Power Source


You are invited to participate in the constructive discussion forum of
deuterium which may be available in Philippine Deep...

http://dynatech.homeip.net/deuterium/
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Re: [Biofuel] Chrysler launches diesel Jeep, allows B5 biodiesel blends

[Gregg Davidson]

Hi Ron,
 
Thanks for the reply.
 
I can't, & will not speak for others, but I am doing my part to help out.
 
Gregg

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hey Keith,
>
> This is an interesting article. I've heard that DaimlerChrysler was going
> to introduce diesel engines in the Jeep Liberty, Grand Cherokee, & the
> Dodge Durango (or as I call it, the 'Derange-o") either in 2005 or 2006
> model year. I'm glad to know that my source was right on target. I
> probably have already seen the explaination somewhere, but why do the
> F.I.E. folks recommend only 5% BD. I haven't tried to make BD with soybean
> oil, just canola/corn/veggie & the "orange stuff" I got from the fish &
> chips shop. Oh well, maybe it will be where I can trade in the next year
> or so for a newer Jeep Grand Cherokee with a diesel engine. Pardon my
> ramblings, but I'm having dilusions of biodiesel at present.
===
Gregg,

It mentioned in the original post that Chrysler did not want to certify
the engines using B20 or higher, because of the often mentioned (on this
list too) fact that quality standards are lacking for the higher
concentration of biodiesel in the USA markets. Let's face it, the USA is
in its infancy for biodoesel use in mass quanities. But it will change.

Ron B.

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-
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.
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Re: [Biofuel] World fuel supplies

[Keith Addison]

just about every shade of opinion from it'll never run out to it ran 
out last week, which I suppose is not surprising.


The list has already discussed most of these same people's views 
quite a lot, as you might expect.


Aleklett:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/index.php?keywords=Aleklett&list=BIOFUEL

More on Aleklett:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/29031/1/
Oil depletion and Global warming

Simmons:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/index.php?keywords=Simmons&list=BIOFUEL

Campbell:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/index.php?keywords=%22Colin+Camp 
bell%22&list=BIOFUEL


Saudi Arabia - Ali Al-Naimi:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/index.php?keywords=Naimi&list=BIOFUEL
Bandar:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/index.php?keywords=bandar&list=BIOFUEL

And...

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/15668/1
Hubbert's Peak

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/24740/
A good article on ME oil supplies.

And so on. And on. There's tons more there.
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/

Sorry to rub it in, but (from yesterday):


I'm sure Keith can tell you if you contact him.


I did, onlist, but I shouldn't have to. It's even in the List rules 
- more guidance than rules, though there are rules too:


"The archives contains more than 38,000 messages over nearly five 
years. The question you want to ask or the topic you're interested 
in has probably already been covered. That's no reason not to ask it 
again, but if you know what's gone before you'll ask a better 
question and get better answers."


Everyone's been referred to that at least once. List members should 
know how to use the archives and do it as a matter of course. The 
Rules are here:


http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/05.html

For instance, so far, apart from news items, very little that's been 
said in the current discussion on Bush, Kerry, Iraq, Afghanistan, 
Israel etc, hasn't already been discussed, affirmed, confirmed, 
substantiated, debunked, discredited, blown right out of the water, 
probably several times. A look at the archives first would yield a 
better, more constructive discussion, from which everybody benefits. 
Otherwise it just goes round and round, to little avail, and with 
much more risk of it degenerating into a flame war.


PLEASE, everybody, use the archives!


Best wishes

Keith




The URLs below may be of interest to you.

There is also a good paper, "The Peak and Decline of World Oil and Gas
Production" by K. Aleklett and C. J. Campbell, at

http://www.isv.uu.se/UHDSG/articles/OilpeakMineralsEnergy.doc


WORLD FUEL SUPPLIES


For a good review article on the world oil situation, see

"Oil depletion in the United States and the world"
by Seppo Korpela, at
http://rclsgi.eng.ohio-state.edu/~korpela/opmatalk.pdf

There are several good links from Seppo Korpela's website at
http://rclsgi.eng.ohio-state.edu/~korpela/oil.html

Jacob Lund Fisker's site is especially informative.

I have an article which overlaps, but covers some slightly
different ground including the role of markets, and U.S.
foreign policy, at
http://www.greenpartyreview.ca/OGN/1-1/article7.php

For a good article on the limits of markets in anticipating resource
shortages, see
http://www.energycrisis.co.uk/reynolds/MineralEconomy.htm


Douglas Woodard
Green Party of Ontario Energy Issue Advocate
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada


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[Biofuel] Saudi Arabia's oil resources; their condition and the implications for the world

[dwoodard]

4 Aug 2004

This is a talk by Matthew Simmons, an investment banker specializing in
the oil and gas industry, to an industry group, with a link to a question
and answer session.

I think it is quite significant.

See
http://www.energybulletin.net/1264.html

Simmons: The Implications of Saudi Arabian Oil Declining


Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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[Biofuel] World fuel supplies

[dwoodard]

The URLs below may be of interest to you.

There is also a good paper, "The Peak and Decline of World Oil and Gas
Production" by K. Aleklett and C. J. Campbell, at

http://www.isv.uu.se/UHDSG/articles/OilpeakMineralsEnergy.doc


WORLD FUEL SUPPLIES


For a good review article on the world oil situation, see

"Oil depletion in the United States and the world"
by Seppo Korpela, at
http://rclsgi.eng.ohio-state.edu/~korpela/opmatalk.pdf

There are several good links from Seppo Korpela's website at
http://rclsgi.eng.ohio-state.edu/~korpela/oil.html

Jacob Lund Fisker's site is especially informative.

I have an article which overlaps, but covers some slightly
different ground including the role of markets, and U.S.
foreign policy, at
http://www.greenpartyreview.ca/OGN/1-1/article7.php

For a good article on the limits of markets in anticipating resource
shortages, see
http://www.energycrisis.co.uk/reynolds/MineralEconomy.htm


Douglas Woodard
Green Party of Ontario Energy Issue Advocate
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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RE: [Biofuel] US DOE examines long-term oil supply scenarios

[dwoodard]

The rate of discovery of new oil supplies crossed the rate of
prodiction/consumption, headed down, around 1980. Most years discovery
is now well under 40% of consumption. The rate of consumption
must follow the rate of discovery. Predictions of the peak of world oil
production from sources more impartial and better informed than the U.S.
DOE range from now to 2015, with the median around 2008.

I will post some URLs shortly.

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada


On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Johnston, Don wrote:

> Guys, I discussed the issue of 'known oil reserves' with Ray Noble, who is in 
> charge of the UK's BP SOLAR Programme. I raised the issue that the  'reserve 
> window' kept expanding, ie when the oil companies were down to 20-25 years 
> 'known' reserves, all of a sudden they found more, and consequently the known 
> reserve window expands to a new time horizon. Ray acknowledged that this used 
> to be the case but affirmed that all the major oil companies now knew where 
> ALL the oil and gas was, and that there was no more to be found, it was 
> simply a matter of how easy ,or how expensive it was going to be to extract 
> from each reserve.
>  He then went on to affirm that, and I try to quote from memory, 'that BP 
> does not expect to be selling petrol, diesel, or LPG on its station 
> forecourts by 2035, it expects to be selling hydrogen.'.
>   I have absolutely no wish to upset this biodiesel fraternity, but note 
> that he did not say to me that BP expects to be selling biodiesel. This was 
> only a couple of years ago.curious.
>
> Don Johnston
> Environmental Coordinator , Portsmouth City Council
> Chair, Solent Energy and Environment Management Group
>
> Winner ; National Champion-Science and Technology, Green Apple Awards 2002
>
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Tel: 023 9283 4247

[snip]
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Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Kyoto clears last hurdle / Scientists against Bush / U.S. can end oil use

[MH]

 Many thanks Keith. 
 Its my hope, help is on the way. 
 I see the UN made a few comments below -- 


> EMS UPDATE - Sept 30, 2004
>
>
> KYOTO CLEARS LAST HURDLE
>
> The Russian cabinet approved the ratification of the Kyoto global warming
> treaty today.  Russia's ratification means the Kyoto Protocol will enter
> into force as an internationally binding treaty in 2005.
>
> The treaty must still win the approval of Russia's lower parliament house,
> but that is considered a virtual certainty.
>
> News stories & press releases:  http://www.ems.org


 UN officials hail Russian approval of
 Kyoto climate change treaty
 http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=12093 

 30 September 2004 ö United Nations officials today welcomed
 the Russian Government's endorsement of the Kyoto Protocol
 regulating emissions linked to climate change - a move that
 brings the pact one step closer to enforcement.

 Secretary-General Kofi Annan hailed the move since the
 Protocol's entry into force would be the "essential first step
 in tackling the planetary challenge posed by climate change."

 "He takes this occasion to remind the entire international community of
 the need to bring a greater sense of urgency to this crucial issue of
 human security and well-being," said a statement issued by a spokesman
 for Mr. Annan.

 Klaus Toepfer, the Executive Director of the UN Environment Programme (UNEP),
 was optimistic Russian action to ratify the accord - it must be approved
 by the Parliament - would "breathe new life" into the international climate
 negotiations that resume in December in Buenos Aires, Argentina.

 Those talks, he said, "must now ensure that developed nations meet their 
initial
 emission reduction targets while ensuring sufficient funds are made available 
to
 developing countries to allow them to reduce their vulnerability to global 
warming."

 Russia's ratification would also invigorate interest in cleaner fuels, more 
efficient
 energy generation and renewable energies such as wind, solar and wave power, 
the
 UNEP chief said.

 "Over the past year or so we have been assembling all the necessary building
 blocks to ensure that the Protocol becomes operational as soon as possible," he
 said. "Russia's green light will allow the climate train to leave the station 
so we can
 really begin addressing the biggest threat to the planet and its people. I 
hope other
 nations, some of whom like Russia have maybe been in the past reluctant to 
ratify,
 will now join us in this truly global endeavour."

 As of last week, 125 countries have ratified or acceded to the Protocol, which 
is
 part of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change. To enter into force 55
 Parties to the Convention must ratify the Protocol, including developed 
countries
 whose combined 1990 emissions of carbon dioxide exceed 55 per cent of that
 group's total. Russia, with 17 per cent of the emissions, would push the amount
 beyond the threshold, according to the Convention's secretariat. The United 
States
 has not ratified the pact.

 Mr. Toepfer also noted that the series of hurricanes that has devastated the
 Caribbean and the parts of the eastern United States in recent months show 
that an
 international alliance against climate change and for the reduction of gases 
is even
 more necessary than when Kyoto was signed in 1997.

 "These kinds of natural disasters, with their appalling loss of life and 
significant
 economic costs, are likely to become even more frequent and extreme unless 
global
 warming is effectively checked," he said.

 "UNEP is convinced that, while only the first step in a long journey towards
 stabilizing greenhouse gas emissions in the atmosphere, the Kyoto Protocol is 
the
 international instrument for addressing global warming," Mr. Toepfer declared.

 For his part, Anwarul K. Chowdhury, the Secretary-General's High Representative
 for the Least Developed Countries, Landlocked Developing Countries and Small
 Island Developing States, said: "There is an urgent necessity for all 
countries to
 understand and address the effects of climate change and honour the commitments
 made under the Kyoto Protocol."

 Referring to the recent spate of hurricanes and tropical storms to strike the
 Caribbean, and to a conference in January on issues affecting small island
 developing States, Mr. Chowdhury said there must be global support for recovery
 efforts by such countries and tangible assistance to them in reviving their
 economies, as well as serious endeavours to address the issue of climate 
change in
 a practical way.

 In January, the UN will organize an International Meeting to Review
 Implementation of the Programme of Action for the Sustainable Development of
 Small Island Developing States, to be held in Mauritius. That action programme
 was originally adopted a decade ago at a UN conference in Barbados.
 Mr. Chowdhury will serve as the Mauritius Meeting's Secretary-General.

 UN Framework Convention on Clim

[Biofuel] Restore American Dignity

[MH]

 Bush's Hometown Newspaper Endorses Kerry
 Sep 28, 2004 
 http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=6356211
CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) - The newspaper in President Bush's adopted
 hometown of Crawford threw its support on Tuesday behind Bush's Democratic
 rival, Sen. John Kerry.  [more] 


 Crawford, Texas
 Home of George W. Bush
 The Lone Star Iconoclast Editorial
 Opinion of the Publishers 

 Kerry Will Restore American Dignity
 2004 Iconoclast Presidential Endorsement 
 http://news.iconoclast-texas.com/web/Columns/Editorial/editorial39.htm 

   Few Americans would have voted for George W. Bush four years ago
 if he had promised that, as President, he would:

 ð Empty the Social Security trust fund by $507 billion to
 help offset fiscal irresponsibility and at the same
 time slash Social Security benefits.
 ð Cut Medicare by 17 percent and reduce veterans
 benefits and military pay.
 ð Eliminate overtime pay for millions of Americans and 
 raise oil prices by 50 percent.
 ð Give tax cuts to businesses that sent American jobs overseas,
 and, in fact, by policy encourage their departure.
 ð Give away billions of tax dollars in government contracts 
 without competitive bids.
 ð Involve this country in a deadly and highly questionable war, and
 ð Take a budget surplus and turn it into the worst deficit 
 in the history of the United States, creating a debt in
 just four years that will take generations to repay.

   These were elements of a hidden agenda that surfaced only 
 after he took office. 
   The publishers of The Iconoclast endorsed Bush four years ago,
 based on the things he promised, not on this smoke-screened agenda. 
   Today, we are endorsing his opponent, John Kerry, based not 
 only on the things that Bush has delivered, but also on the
 vision of a return to normality that Kerry says our country needs. 
   Four items trouble us the most about the Bush administration: 
 his initiatives to disable the Social Security system,
 the deteriorating state of the American economy,
 a dangerous shift away from the basic freedoms established by
 our founding fathers, and his continuous mistakes regarding 
 terrorism and Iraq.[more]
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Re: [Biofuel] ultimate pump wash

[Keith Addison]

It's no ordinary watering can head:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html
Journey to Forever 90-litre processor

Scroll down to "processor lid".

But all you need is the principle, of course, then adapt what you can 
find to do the same job in your set-up. As you're doing.


I'm not quite clear on it though. "The water gets pumped up and then 
falls like rain all over the surface of the BD" - only the water? Or 
are you pumping BD as well, or mixed BD and water? If it's only the 
water, all you have is a sort of glorified mist-washer, with rain 
rather than mist. Well, maybe that's okay. But I'd've thought a pump 
would pull liquid out of the bottom faster than the water raining on 
top will percolate down, isn't it pulling BD as well, and mixing the 
water and BD? Is the BD getting mixed with water, or just rained on?


regards

Keith



OK, this time I think I just might have gotten it :) I was 
re-reading through the 90 liter processor at JtF as I recalled 
something about a shower head being used.

Well, it turned out to be a watering can head, but same idea.
I have set up a system where the water is pumped up from the exit 
pipe in the Standpipe design
http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=333) to 
the top of the wash tank and there it is distributed via a "T" 
section to fall like rain over the BD. It works, but still not to my 
satisfaction. Enter the watering can idea. Instead of the "T" 
section with perferated hose actiing as a distributor tomorow I am 
on the hunt for a pair of large, flat shower heads that can be used 
instead. That should do it once and for all. The water gets pumped 
up  and then falls like rain all over the surface of the BD washing 
it as it sinks to the bottom and gets pumped back up again and again 
and again.
And that should about do it for the Ultimate Pump Wash :) Other 
methods might work better but with the very limited head space I 
have to work with this it is for me. I will post an update (even if 
it doesn't work... but it will, ha!)
I figure that with TWO shower heads the entire area should be 
suficiently covered so as to do a good job, and that is the only 
thing I will be satisfied with, a GOOD job.


Luc


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[Biofuel] ultimate pump wash

[Legal Eagle]

OK, this time I think I just might have gotten it :) I was re-reading through 
the 90 liter processor at JtF as I recalled something about a shower head being 
used.
Well, it turned out to be a watering can head, but same idea.
I have set up a system where the water is pumped up from the exit pipe in the 
Standpipe design
http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=333) to the top of 
the wash tank and there it is distributed via a "T" section to fall like rain 
over the BD. It works, but still not to my satisfaction. Enter the watering can 
idea. Instead of the "T" section with perferated hose actiing as a distributor 
tomorow I am on the hunt for a pair of large, flat shower heads that can be 
used instead. That should do it once and for all. The water gets pumped up  and 
then falls like rain all over the surface of the BD washing it as it sinks to 
the bottom and gets pumped back up again and again and again.
And that should about do it for the Ultimate Pump Wash :) Other methods might 
work better but with the very limited head space I have to work with this it is 
for me. I will post an update (even if it doesn't work... but it will, ha!)
I figure that with TWO shower heads the entire area should be suficiently 
covered so as to do a good job, and that is the only thing I will be satisfied 
with, a GOOD job.

Luc

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Re: [Biofuel] Cheap oil

[Legal Eagle]

- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cheap oil


> >Walt,
> >
> >The oil crisis in the 70's was triggered by the Israeli-Arab war and
> >an attempt by the Oil producing countries to effect the world in
> >this.
> >
> >Hakan
>
> See:
>
> The Seven Sisters -- The Great Oil Companies and the World They Made
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#7sisters
>
> The Seven Sisters -- The Great Oil Companies and the World They Made,
> by Anthony Sampson, 1975 (out of print). "The Seven Sisters (from a
> phrase first popularised by Italian oil tycoon Enrico Mattei): Exxon
> (Esso), Shell, BP, Gulf, Texaco, Mobil, Socal (Chevron) -- plus an
> eighth, the Compagnie Francaise Des PŽtroles (CFP-Total)." We scanned
> chapters 8-14 of the book and posted them under the subtitle "OPEC,
> Big Oil and you" at the Biofuel mailing list, where they raised much
> interest. "I was so interested in the story, I went out and ordered
> myself a copy," wrote one list member. "This is great reading, and
> gives us a small glimpse into the control that big oil has over us.
> Thanks." Seven chapters full-text online.
> See also: Who gets what from imported oil? Data from OPEC (Acrobat file,
36kb):
> http://www.opec.org/NewsInfo/WhoGetsWhat/2001.pdf
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith

An equally interesting and revealing read is "The Rockerfeller File"
http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/gary_allen_rocker/index.html#metatop
Showing that due to anti-trust laws levelled at him, Heir Rocky was "forced"
to break up Standard Oil into the conglomerates we have with us today,
while, of course, retaining much of their control.

Luc
>
> >
> >At 07:53 PM 9/30/2004, you wrote:
> >>At 08:51 AM 9/30/04 -0500, Ross wrote:
> >> >I just encountered two articles at my library that strengthens my
> >> >belief that we are beginning to see the end of cheap oil NOW from how
> >> >we've always known it.
> >>
> >>   Good article with some interesting points, but I feel the
> >>need to quibble a bit.
> >>The problem is that oil _is_ cheap, even at $50 a barrel because
> >>while a barrel of oil is real, the dollar is not.
> >>
> >>   The "oil crisis" of the '70s was triggered by Nixon's
> >>decision to remove the dollar's gold backing and OPEC's rational
> >>response to his decision. Now, we're facing a similar situation.
> >>The world is being flooded with dollar denominated debt, a tidal
> >>wave which is going to affect the dollar denominated "value" of all
> >>commodities.
> >>
> >>   People talk about "fifty dollar a barrel oil" as if "fifty
> >>dollars" means something. It doesn't. Each dollar is just a drop in
> >>a vast sea of unsupported, unredeemable debt, and as foreign
> >>investors start to catch on, the dollar is going to continue to
> >>fall in value. In short, it isn't so much a matter of the cost of
> >>oil going up, but rather the value of the dollar going down.
> >>
> >>Walt
> >
> >
> >___
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> >
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Re: [Biofuel] Cheap oil

[Keith Addison]

The oil crisis in the 70's was triggered by the Israeli-Arab war and 
an attempt by the Oil producing countries to effect the world in 
this.


Hakan


See:

The Seven Sisters -- The Great Oil Companies and the World They Made
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#7sisters

The Seven Sisters -- The Great Oil Companies and the World They Made, 
by Anthony Sampson, 1975 (out of print). "The Seven Sisters (from a 
phrase first popularised by Italian oil tycoon Enrico Mattei): Exxon 
(Esso), Shell, BP, Gulf, Texaco, Mobil, Socal (Chevron) -- plus an 
eighth, the Compagnie Francaise Des PŽtroles (CFP-Total)." We scanned 
chapters 8-14 of the book and posted them under the subtitle "OPEC, 
Big Oil and you" at the Biofuel mailing list, where they raised much 
interest. "I was so interested in the story, I went out and ordered 
myself a copy," wrote one list member. "This is great reading, and 
gives us a small glimpse into the control that big oil has over us. 
Thanks." Seven chapters full-text online.

See also: Who gets what from imported oil? Data from OPEC (Acrobat file, 36kb):
http://www.opec.org/NewsInfo/WhoGetsWhat/2001.pdf

Best wishes

Keith




At 07:53 PM 9/30/2004, you wrote:

At 08:51 AM 9/30/04 -0500, Ross wrote:
>I just encountered two articles at my library that strengthens my
>belief that we are beginning to see the end of cheap oil NOW from how
>we've always known it.

  Good article with some interesting points, but I feel the 
need to quibble a bit.
The problem is that oil _is_ cheap, even at $50 a barrel because 
while a barrel of oil is real, the dollar is not.


  The "oil crisis" of the '70s was triggered by Nixon's 
decision to remove the dollar's gold backing and OPEC's rational 
response to his decision. Now, we're facing a similar situation. 
The world is being flooded with dollar denominated debt, a tidal 
wave which is going to affect the dollar denominated "value" of all 
commodities.


  People talk about "fifty dollar a barrel oil" as if "fifty 
dollars" means something. It doesn't. Each dollar is just a drop in 
a vast sea of unsupported, unredeemable debt, and as foreign 
investors start to catch on, the dollar is going to continue to 
fall in value. In short, it isn't so much a matter of the cost of 
oil going up, but rather the value of the dollar going down.


Walt



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Re: [Biofuel] Israel's "Terrorists"

[robert luis rabello]

Small problem, even if the Christians, the Muslims and the Jews have the 
same God, it is only the Christians who recognize and bother about what 
Jesus said. Since Israel is one of the few states who are based on and 
declared as a religious state for the Jews (therefore not democratic), I 
am afraid that they do not care about Jesus either. This means that 
Israel cannot be counted as belonging to the "Christian enablers", but 
they do activities that some would call war, others would call it 
occupation, persecution, and discrimination against population in 
occupied areas, in itself a war crime according to international law.


	Perhaps you cannot understand the strange, dispensationalist 
perspective and growing political power of Evangelical Christianity in 
North America.  These people do not care about what Jesus taught 
concerning social justice, else they would decry the endless 
atrocities characteristic of conflict in the Middle East that are 
perpetrated on BOTH sides.  (They like to blame the Palestinians, but 
other Arab states are equally complicit, the Israeli government rules 
the occupied territories with exceeding brutality, and we Americans do 
not view this situation with any kind of objectivity.)


	The Dispensationalist Evangelicals believe in a radical disconnect 
and a complete severing of the soteriological thread that connects the 
faith of Abraham, with that of Moses, and ultimately, Jesus himself. 
Hence promises made long ago to Abraham, according to this view, MUST 
be literally fulfilled by his literal descendants; not we Christians 
who view ourselves as heirs to God's promises by faith.  Their view of 
Old Testament prophets is fundamental.  They believe the prophecies of 
Daniel and Ezekiel concerning the temple in Jerusalem MUST occur 
before Jesus returns to earth; therefore the Dome of the Rock Mosque 
has to go, and Jerusalem must again become the capital city of Israel. 
 To that end, the Evangelicals support the modern, secular state of 
Israel and its apartheid policies without reservation.


	International law and the United Nations are seen as impediments to 
this end.  Because the Dispensationalist Evangelicals believe that 
unqualified support of Israel is God's will and by extension, the 
OBLIGATION of true Christians, Israel can do no wrong.  These are the 
people whom Luc calls "Christian Enablers".  Israel would not long 
survive in the world community without the unquestioning support and 
financial / military aid it receives from my country.  I'm certain you 
people in Europe and other places on earth find American behavior 
puzzling, but seen in this light, it makes perfect sense.




It does not really matter, since neither US or Israel recognize the court 
who would enforce such international laws, at least when it suits them. 


	Is this not true of all sovereign nations?  Are not ALL foreign 
policies designed to suit the nation state?




The same with the UN authority.


	UN authority is only as good as the consensus of its members.  A 
couple of years ago, I posted a list of all the resolutions passed 
against the state of Israel that have been systematically dismissed or 
ignored.  This could not happen without the veto power of my country 
in the Security Council.


	My mother, who considers herself a patriot, sent me a political 
cartoon depicting a sniveling UN official asking a collection of 
hysterically laughing mullahs to "please stop your Iranian nuclear 
weapons program".  The nasty undercurrent of that cartoon is that 
these "laughing mullahs" can only be stopped from possessing nuclear 
weapons by force.


	We have that force, and there are leaders in my country with the will 
to utilize it.  They believe that by doing so, they are doing the will 
of God.  We are living in the midst of a very frightening time in 
world history.



robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782>

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


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Re: [Biofuel] Question about biodiesel

[Legal Eagle]

Thanks for the info Erik. Learned something new today :)

Luc
- Original Message - 
From: "Erik Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Question about biodiesel


> nope, some of them, especially the smaller ones like
> that do not need glow plugs. they fire off from the
> heat of compression only. in fact some tractors have
> no glow plugs either. i have no idea of percentage of
> them having or not having glow plugs, but the ones
> that we use on the farm do NOT have any glow plugs.
> they usually fire right off. i don't know how...
> 
> biodiesel should ignite the same as petro diesel in
> such an engine. you should just give it a try. the
> only things to worry about are rubber seals or hoses
> in the fuel system. they can be swelled by biodiesel
> or perhaps worse if it's the wrong material.
> 
> erik
> --- Legal Eagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > It is my understanding that ALL diesels need a glow
> > plug ignition of some
> > sort.
> > Luc
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "frag lag" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 1:21 PM
> > Subject: [Biofuel] Question about biodiesel
> > 
> > 
> > > i have an old italian compression diesel here
> > (500cc) , a no runner at the
> > > moment , would biodiesel work in it or do i need
> > an ignition source
> > > (glowplug)
> > >
> > >
> >
> _
> > > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> > >
> >
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
> > >
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[Biofuel] Massey Ferguson tractors- OK for biodiesel?

[rlbarber]

Folks,

I was looking at the Massey Ferguson web site and was wondering if anyone
has run across the company saying it is alright for burning biodiesel in
their equipment?

Though MF is part of a larger company based in the US, I believe...the
tractors are manufactured in Canada, correct? Would anyone living in
Canada (the USA's best friend, I might add) know if MF tractors can burn
biodiesl (OK'd by the manufacturer)?

Thanks,
Ron B.
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[Biofuel] Re: Fwd: David Ignatius cracks the code on the Big Bang strategy etc etc

[Keith Addison]

Subject:David Ignatius cracks the code on the Big Bang strategy
Date:   Thu, 30 Sep 2004 04:04:25 GMT
From:   

   "Are the Terrorists Failing? Rather than bringing Islamic regimes
   to power, the holy warriors are creating internal strife and
   discord, says a French Arabist,"* op-ed by David Ignatius,
   /Washington Post/, 28 September 2004, p. A27.

Ignatius' op-ed is mostly a recounting of a recent speech by a French
Arabist, Gilles Kepel, in a book-promotion tour (for /The War for Muslim
Minds/). Here's the key section:





Subject:Yet another example of why it isn't Islam versus the West
Date:   Thu, 30 Sep 2004 04:05:13 GMT
From:   

   "Chechens' Terror Links Drawing Attention,"* by Vladimir
   Isachenkov, /Associated Press via Yahoo News/, 26 September 2004,
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040926/ap_on_re_e 
u/russia_terror_ties_1.



This story mirrors a recent Journal story on the Chechen leader Shamil
Basayev. My basic take on that article was that it showed how radical
Islam and al Qaeda were becoming an umbrella organization to which


This is junk, John, and noxious with it. This guy Barnett has a 
keyhole view, he does see stuff through his keyhole, but it's 
hopelessly coloured, or discolored rather, by the fact that he can't 
see the world at all except via his little bit of it and what's best 
(he thinks) for that little bit and for him. It's not true comment, 
he just pontificates, it's a reinterpretation, a reshaping of what's 
otherwise quite clear enough so that it might manage to balance 
itself somehow contrary to the laws of nature on the steeply skewed 
angle he'd call a "level playing field", like the corporate 
"globalists" he supports.


As with your previous:

Clearly, Barnett's pro-globalization stance will be highly 
uncomfortable to many readers on this list but I find his take on 
post-cold war global security quite insightful.


And your response to Bob's fwd of William Rivers Pitt's article in 
"Fossil fuels fuel the politics":


And this, as articulated by Barnett, is exactly why we need to 
shrink the non-integrated Gap by connecting them to the world 
economy via globalization.


That's not globalisation, it's corporate globalisation, an entirely 
different matter - neo-liberal dinosaurs, is all. I trashed the whole 
thing here:


http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040920/000423.html
[Biofuel] Fossil fuels fuel the politics

A lot of other people have trashed it previously, it's all in the 
archives. But no response from you - and you keep on posting the 
stuff.


Barnett's just one of Andrew Marshall's much derided "Jedi knights", 
along with Marhall's other protŽgŽs, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, all 
the usual suspects. Barnett's a militarist, thick as treacle with the 
Pentagon, the RAND Corporation and so on... Just another apologist 
for pre-emptive war. He has no credibility whatsoever commenting on 
these affairs, it's hopelessly slanted, spin and worse.


http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Thomas_P.M._Barnett
Thomas P.M. Barnett - Disinfopedia

Thomas P.M. Barnett is a "Senior Strategic Researcher and Professor 
in the Warfare Analysis & Research Department, Center for Naval 
Warfare Studies, U.S. Naval War College. From November 2001 to June 
of 2003, Dr. Barnett was on temporary assignment as the Assistant 
for Strategic Futures, Office of Force Transformation (OFT), Office 
of the Secretary of Defense, where he worked with OFT Director Vice 
Admiral Arthur K. Cebrowski (USN, ret.) on a cluster of strategic 
concepts that link change in the international security environment 
to the imperative of transforming U.S. military capabilities to meet 
future threats."


"Outside of his War College duties, he also provides 
policy/management consulting as an independent contractor to various 
private corporations and research organizations." See Barnett's full 
resume and web site for details. Also see Barnett's consultant 
listing.


All those refs and more are linked to further resources, go and check them out.

We can do without this neocon militarist crap, if you please.

By the way...

Hmm. Sorry about that. Thunderbird was set to forward messages as 
attachments, not inline. Let me try that again.


The list is set to reject both attachments and coded text inline, 
though it'll try to decode inline text and usually succeeds. Don't 
you know that? It's been said often enough. It's in the List rules, 
which you were sent when the list moved.


"As an essential anti-virus measure the list does not accept 
attachments. All attachments are automatically removed before 
messages are distributed to the members. It is not possible to 
receive a virus from the Biofuel list."

http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/05.html

Keith Addison

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RE: [Biofuel] running biodiesel in gas engines

[Mel Riser]

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"

I used some gasoline and ethanol in my wife's Mini Van {chevrolet}
 
It acted goofy for days and even stranded her once with a vapor lock.
Maybe it was too much alcohol, but she won't let me "experiment" on the fuel 
for the van.
 
Though it does get pretty good mileage for such a large vehicle.
 
And it has a really good computer that give all kinds of historicall info.
 
I plan to buy a Jeep Liberty next year for my high schooler and to have as an 
extra car.
 
mel
 

-Original Message- 
From: Gregg Davidson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thu 9/30/2004 4:30 PM 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] running biodiesel in gas engines



Hi Jonathan,

A straightforward question deserves, & will get, a straightforward 
answer: Personal preference due to E-85 fuel is not available (that I know of) 
in Georgia. I've also read in my Chrysler Owner's manual that you have to use a 
special type of motor oil if you use E-85 fuel. If you don't, there will be 
excessive engine wear.

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Gregg

Jonathan Schearer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gregg, I have a question to ask you about your FFV T&C minivan. I have 
read that these are designed to run any blend of gasoline and ethanol, up to 
85% ethanol. Why are you running biodiesel and not ethanol? Personal 
preference? Ethanol not available in your area? Just curious, that's all. 
Thanks. Jonathan.

Gregg Davidson wrote:Hi Keith,

Glad I could be of help to folks that have questions. I haven't had 
much time to make any more BD than the 5 or 6 gallons I made recently. I added 
about 2.2 gallons (a bit over 10%) to the fuel in my Chrysler T&C mini van 
earlier this month. The 3.3 L V-6 Flex Fuel engine seemed to like the that. 
Since the Jeeps are fairly new, I only add about .5 gallons to their fuel, 
while adding 10% to the fuel of my lawn tractors. As soon as I have the chance 
to make more BD, I'll use it more frequently in the vehicles.

Respectfully,
Gregg

Keith Addison wrote:
Hi Gregg

Thanks for this, that takes it all forward a whole lot.

Unfortunately, Franklin's email account has been non-functional for a
while. I hope he'll rejoin us and give us further news of his work
with biodiesel, in both 2-strokes and gasoline engines.

>Hello Al,
>
>I'm the one that posted a while back about mixing a percentage of
>BD, about 10 - 15%, with my gas & using it in my lawnmower, as well
>as my mini van & Jeeps. It was sucessful. So far, I add BD to my gas
>frequently. This cleans the build-up out. I noticed my mileage drops
>a bit, but when I fill up with 100% gasoline, I get better mileage &
>power. To this day, I have not had any sort of engine problems.

Do you have more detail on the frequency you've used BD?

>I recall seeing something in the archives at Journey To Forever,

Not at Journey to Forever.

>but since things have been moved to a new server, they might be here.

The list has been using the excellent Infoarchive provided by list
member Martin Klingensmith for the last two years, as Yahoo's archive
became ever more useless. That hasn't changed - all list messages
from the start of the list are filed at the Infoarchive, and
constantly updated. It has powerful and fast search functions.

The link is at the end of every message you receive:

>Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
>http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/

Now that we've dumped Yahoo we also have a new archive, where
messages are stored by the week, also constantly updated, and
viewable by Thread, Subject, Author or Date, but it's not searchable,
and it starts from when the list moved on 9 September.

This achives is linked at the top of every message you receive:

>List-Archive:

>I'm sure Keith can tell you if you contact him.

I did, onlist, but I shouldn't have to. It's even in the List rules -
more guidance than rules, though there are rules too:

"The archives contains more than 38,000 messages over nearly five
years. The question you want to ask or the topic you're interested in
has probably already been covered. That's no reason not to ask it
again, but if you know what's gone before you'll ask a better
question and get better answers."

Everyone's been referred to that at

RE: [Biofuel] Chrysler launches diesel Jeep, allows B5 biodiesel blends

[Mel Riser]

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"

I drive a 1983 K5 Blaxer with 6.2 L Diesel. and the closer I get to straight 
diesel in my blends, the more acrid and eye burning the fumes get.
 
when I run B50 it is quite pleasant to be around.
 
B100 is definately different but I have only done that a few times and not the 
whole tank.
 
right now I am down to 1/4 tank and I had to fillup with straight Diesel the 
other day and the exhaust is pretty bad.
 
But I am hoping to get 50 gallons of B100 tomorrow and blend a B50 for driving 
the next few weeks.
 
At the rate I am burning, it might be worth it to have a freight truck deliver 
me a barrel or two of straight vegetable and go SVO for the long miles and B50 
for cranking and heating.
 
Once you start "making" or blending your own fuel, you realize how much you 
just "pumped" and went fefore.
 
:) 
 
mel

-Original Message- 
From: Gregg Davidson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thu 9/30/2004 6:38 PM 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chrysler launches diesel Jeep,allows B5 
biodiesel blends



Hey Keith,

This is an interesting article. I've heard that DaimlerChrysler was 
going to introduce diesel engines in the Jeep Liberty, Grand Cherokee, & the 
Dodge Durango (or as I call it, the 'Derange-o") either in 2005 or 2006 model 
year. I'm glad to know that my source was right on target. I probably have 
already seen the explaination somewhere, but why do the F.I.E. folks recommend 
only 5% BD. I haven't tried to make BD with soybean oil, just 
canola/corn/veggie & the "orange stuff" I got from the fish & chips shop. Oh 
well, maybe it will be where I can trade in the next year or so for a newer 
Jeep Grand Cherokee with a diesel engine. Pardon my ramblings, but I'm having 
dilusions of biodiesel at present.

Respectfully yours,
Gregg



Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
DieselNet UPDATE
September 2004
http://www.dieselnet.com/

Chrysler launches diesel Jeep, allows B5 biodiesel blends

DaimlerChrysler announced that each new 2005 Jeep Liberty sport-
utility vehicle rolling off the assembly line will be fueled with 5%
biodiesel blend (B5). The first Liberty diesel will be produced in
November in the Jeep Liberty plant in Toledo, OH.

The Jeep Liberty diesel, the first diesel-powered mid-size SUV to be
offered in the USA, will be powered with a 2.8-liter 4-cylinder
Common Rail Diesel (CRD) engine. The acceleration of the 4-cylinder
CRD diesel vehicle is comparable to that of a V6 gasoline engine, and
the torque output to that of a gasoline V8. The Liberty CRD diesel
will achieve 22 mpg (10.7 l/100 km) city and 27 mpg (8.7 l/100 km)
highway, overall approximately 30% better than Liberty's comparable
3.7-liter V-6 gasoline engine.

In addition to the reduction in fuel consumption, the diesel engine
also brings a 20% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions compared with
gasoline engines, said DaimlerChrysler.

Biodiesel fuel, manufactured in the USA mostly from soy beans, is a
renewable fuel which brings substantial reductions in the life cycle
greenhouse gas emissions (most of carbon dioxide released when the
fuel is burned is matched by the amount of carbon dioxide absorbed by
soy plants during growth). In addition, biodiesel produces certain
emission reductions of PM, HC and CO.

DaimlerChrysler said its Dodge Ram diesel pickup trucks have run
successfully on B20 (20% biodiesel) blends in fleets required to use
alternative fuels by the Energy Policy Act of 1992 (EPACT). However,
due to lack of biodiesel fuel standards to guarantee consistent
quality of B20 fuels, DaimlerChrysler recommends its diesel vehicles
be run on a biodiesel blend of maximum 5% (B5). This recommendation
is also consistent with the common position by fuel injection
equipment manufacturers on the use of biodiesel in diesel engines.

The CRD engine does not meet the LEV II emission standards that
became effective this year in California. As a result, the Liberty
diesel will not be available in California or in other states that
adopted California emission standards (Massachusetts, Maine, New
York, Vermont).

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story
/09-09-2004/0002247062

FIE manufacturers position on biodiesel:
http://www.dieselnet.com/tech/fuels/fie_fame_position_2000_06.pdf



See:

Fu

Re: [Biofuel] Why should we believe what Bush says in the debate..oranytime?

[rlbarber]

> the top 5 percent of income earners will get more
> than half the tax cuts while the bottom half of Americans will receive
> less than 8 percent of the benefits.[1]
===
If that is all the data they are publishing, then they aren't telling the
whole story. You need more data to fill the matrix. Though what they say
is probably true, by not adding to the subject matter ALL the facts...one
can come to the wrong conclusion.

Ron B.

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[Biofuel] [Fwd: Yet another example of why it isn't Islam versus the West]

[John Hayes]

jh

 Original Message 
Subject:Yet another example of why it isn't Islam versus the West
Date:   Thu, 30 Sep 2004 04:05:13 GMT
From:   



"Chechens' Terror Links Drawing Attention,"* by Vladimir
Isachenkov, /Associated Press via Yahoo News/, 26 September 2004,

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040926/ap_on_re_eu/russia_terror_ties_1.


This story mirrors a recent Journal story on the Chechen leader Shamil
Basayev. My basic take on that article was that it showed how radical
Islam and al Qaeda were becoming an umbrella organization to which
"adherents" flowed simply out of necessity, changing their spots along
the way. Basayev, in that article, was described as a very recent
"convert" to Islam. What struck me about that article was that it
reminded me how, during the Cold War, many revolutionary leaders "found"
Marxism. Why? Typically because they were first turned down by the West
or?specifically?the U.S. Vietnam's Ho Chi Minh wrote his declaration of
independence from colonial master France, cribbing it whole-cloth from
Thomas Jefferson's original. He saw himself as a natural George
Washington, and couldn't understand why Washington could not. We didn't
recognize him as such, because France was a big ally vis-ˆ-vis the Sovs,
so guess what? Ho had to become communist and Vietnam suffers that
choice to this day.

Am I suggesting we should have sided with Basayev? No way. I see that
independence movement as just more fracturing of the Core, as well as
historically irrelevant/counterproductive to the larger integration
processes of globalization. All I'm saying is that when you can't join
one side, you're left with the other, and the other right now is radical
Islam. When this happens, you'll see that transnational movement absorb
all sorts of cats and dogs, Basayev being one of them.

This article points to the opposite effect: not only are the Basayev's
of the Gap switching their stripes to join the radical Islam camp, but
the radical Islam camp is basically accepting all comers. Point is, this
movement, which always had a tenuous grip on religion because of the way
it twists the Koran to its own cruel ends, will become increasingly
divorced from that larger meaning over time as it accepts all comers who
share the same basic end: kill the Westerners and drive them from our
lands. Now, in effect, both sides of this equation are actively
recruiting the other side, just like it was with the
ideologically-barren-but-entirely-opportunistic Soviet bloc for the
latter half of the Cold War (or basically, after they made their peace
with the West with dŽtente).

Did we create this phenomenon by invading Iraq? No, but we certainly
accelerated it. Could we have prevented this phenomenon from emerging?
Also no. Radical Islam is the best offer out there right now to those
hoping to offer prolonged violent resistance to the expansion of the
global economy and its "nefarious ways" of "perverting local cultures."
Since the global economy (the Core) is impinging right now primarily
upon those regions where Islamic faith is most in abundance, this
us-versus-them breakdown was not only in the works, it was inevitable.
The only question for the Core is how fast we seek to engage this
struggle: do we hold off, accept the offer of civilizational apartheid,
and wait them out? Or do we seek to actively transform the Middle East,
bring it into the larger global economy in a broadband fashion and?by
doing so?end its disconnectedness and defeat those committed to
perpetuating and deepening that disconnectedness?

I say, embrace the tough tasks with zeal. They only grow worse from
delayed action.



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[Biofuel] [Fwd: David Ignatius cracks the code on the Big Bang strategy]

[John Hayes]

attachments, not inline. Let me try that again.

jh

 Original Message 
Subject:David Ignatius cracks the code on the Big Bang strategy
Date:   Thu, 30 Sep 2004 04:04:25 GMT
From:   



"Are the Terrorists Failing? Rather than bringing Islamic regimes
to power, the holy warriors are creating internal strife and
discord, says a French Arabist,"* op-ed by David Ignatius,
/Washington Post/, 28 September 2004, p. A27.

Ignatius' op-ed is mostly a recounting of a recent speech by a French
Arabist, Gilles Kepel, in a book-promotion tour (for /The War for Muslim
Minds/). Here's the key section:

Kepel believes that the United States has stumbled badly in Iraq,
and he's sharply critical of U.S. policies there. But that doesn't
mean the jihadists are winning. Quite the contrary, their movement
has backfired. Rather than bringing Islamic regimes to power, the
holy warriors are creating internal strife and discord. Their
actions are killing far more Muslims than nonbelievers.

"The principal goal of terrorism?to seize power in Muslim countries
through mobilization of populations galvanized by jihad's sheer
audacity?has not been realized," Kepel writes. In fact, bin Laden's
followers are losing ground: The Taliban regime in Afghanistan has
been toppled; the fence-sitting semi-Islamist regime in Saudi Arabia
has taken sides more strongly with the West; Islamists in Sudan and
Libya are in retreat; and the plight of the Palestinians has never
been more dire. And Baghdad, the traditional seat of Muslim caliphs,
is under foreign occupation. Not what you would call a successful
jihad.

Kepel argues that the insurgents' brutal tactics in Iraq?the
kidnappings and beheadings, and the car-bombing massacres of young
Iraqi police recruits?are increasingly alienating the Muslim masses.
No sensible Muslim would want to live in Fallujah, which is now
controlled by Taliban-style fanatics. Similarly, the Muslim masses
can see that most of the dead from post-Sept. 11 al Qaeda bombings
in Turkey and Morocco were fellow Muslims.

A perfect example of how the jihadists' efforts have backfired,
argues Kepel, was last month's kidnapping of two French journalists
in Iraq. The kidnappers announced that they would release their
hostages only if the French government reversed its new policy
banning Muslim women from wearing headscarves in French public
schools. "They imagined that they would mobilize Muslims with this
demand, but French Muslims were aghast and denounced the
kidnappers," Kepel explained to a Washington audience. He noted that
French Muslims took to the streets to protest against the kidnappers
and to proclaim their French citizenship.


I think this sort of analysis only underscores my point that radical
Islam is not our enemy, but the enemy of moderate, modernizing Islam.
Yes, we get associated with that process, and sometimes we get targeted
as a result. But radical Islam's identifying the U.S. as the Great Devil
only highlights the projection going on here. We need to be about
growing broadband economic connectivity between the Middle East and the
outside world, and letting this intra-Islamic struggle work itself out.
Yes, we'll kill bad guys as they stick their heads out of holes, but
this is not a war of ideas we can win. Because, in the end, it's not our
ideas that threaten radical Islam so much as moderate Islam's
willingness to accept them. If the civilization apartheid that Osama
dreams of really did exist, there would be no issues between Islam and
the West. His problem is that this dream remains just that, and it's
disappearing by the day as globalization increasingly penetrates the
still largely disconnected Middle East.


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Re: [Biofuel] Question about biodiesel

[Erik Lane]

nope, some of them, especially the smaller ones like
that do not need glow plugs. they fire off from the
heat of compression only. in fact some tractors have
no glow plugs either. i have no idea of percentage of
them having or not having glow plugs, but the ones
that we use on the farm do NOT have any glow plugs.
they usually fire right off. i don't know how...

biodiesel should ignite the same as petro diesel in
such an engine. you should just give it a try. the
only things to worry about are rubber seals or hoses
in the fuel system. they can be swelled by biodiesel
or perhaps worse if it's the wrong material.

erik
--- Legal Eagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> It is my understanding that ALL diesels need a glow
> plug ignition of some
> sort.
> Luc
> - Original Message - 
> From: "frag lag" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 1:21 PM
> Subject: [Biofuel] Question about biodiesel
> 
> 
> > i have an old italian compression diesel here
> (500cc) , a no runner at the
> > moment , would biodiesel work in it or do i need
> an ignition source
> > (glowplug)
> >
> >
>
_
> > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> >
>
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
> >
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> >
> 
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] Cheap oil

[Legal Eagle]

- Original Message - 
From: "Walt Patrick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cheap oil


> At 08:51 AM 9/30/04 -0500, Ross wrote:
>  >I just encountered two articles at my library that strengthens my
>  >belief that we are beginning to see the end of cheap oil NOW from how
>  >we've always known it.
>
> Good article with some interesting points, but I feel the need to quibble
> a bit.

Very good "quibble" :)
Luc

> The problem is that oil _is_ cheap, even at $50 a barrel because while a
> barrel of oil is real, the dollar is not.
>
> The "oil crisis" of the '70s was triggered by Nixon's decision to remove
> the dollar's gold backing and OPEC's rational response to his decision.
> Now, we're facing a similar situation. The world is being flooded with
> dollar denominated debt, a tidal wave which is going to affect the dollar
> denominated "value" of all  commodities.
>
> People talk about "fifty dollar a barrel oil" as if "fifty dollars" means
> something. It doesn't. Each dollar is just a drop in a vast sea of
> unsupported, unredeemable debt, and as foreign investors start to catch
on,
> the dollar is going to continue to fall in value. In short, it isn't so
> much a matter of the cost of oil going up, but rather the value of the
> dollar going down.
>
> Walt
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Question about biodiesel

[Legal Eagle]

It is my understanding that ALL diesels need a glow plug ignition of some
sort.
Luc
- Original Message - 
From: "frag lag" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 1:21 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Question about biodiesel


> i have an old italian compression diesel here (500cc) , a no runner at the
> moment , would biodiesel work in it or do i need an ignition source
> (glowplug)
>
> _
> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Chrysler launches diesel Jeep, allows B5 biodiesel blends

[rlbarber]

> Hey Keith,
>
> This is an interesting article. I've heard that DaimlerChrysler was going
> to introduce diesel engines in the Jeep Liberty, Grand Cherokee, & the
> Dodge Durango (or as I call it, the 'Derange-o") either in 2005 or 2006
> model year. I'm glad to know that my source was right on target. I
> probably have already seen the explaination somewhere, but why do the
> F.I.E. folks recommend only 5% BD. I haven't tried to make BD with soybean
> oil, just canola/corn/veggie & the "orange stuff" I got from the fish &
> chips shop. Oh well, maybe it will be where I can trade in the next year
> or so for a newer Jeep Grand Cherokee with a diesel engine. Pardon my
> ramblings, but I'm having dilusions of biodiesel at present.
===
Gregg,

It mentioned in the original post that Chrysler did not want to certify
the engines using B20 or higher, because of the often mentioned (on this
list too) fact that quality standards are lacking for the higher
concentration of biodiesel in the USA markets. Let's face it, the USA is
in its infancy for biodoesel use in mass quanities. But it will change.

Ron B.

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Re: [Biofuel] Israel's "Terrorists"

[Legal Eagle]

- Original Message - 
From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Israel's "Terrorists"


>
> Luc,
>
> Small problem, even if the Christians, the Muslims and the Jews have the
> same God, it is only the Christians who recognize and bother about what
> Jesus said.

Not true, Islam recognizes Jesus as a Prophet and cares a great deal about
what He said. Islam also concurs with the virgin birth of Mary and also
agree with the Christian belief that Jesus will return, however the
Talmudists have Him boiling in hot excrement in hell, and Mary, His mother,
an adultress who fornicated with a Roman soldier from where Jesus was
conceived, a bastard son.
 Those are, of course, major differences.

Since Israel is one of the few states who are based on and
> declared as a religious state for the Jews (therefore not democratic),

Sorry, but wrong again. Israel was to be a "homeland" for those calling
themsleves "jews" and was only created after the Zionists coerced Britain
into the Balfour Declaration which was later ratified by the UN, officially
giving a chunk of Palestine to the Zionists for a "jewish homeland". The
"religious" aspect was an afterthought and not part of the original intent,
althopugh generally accepted as such.
There are still today many many of those calling themselves "jews" who do
not recognise the political state of Israel nor it's crimes as being
legitimately appologizable.

>I am afraid that they do not care about Jesus either. This means that
Israel cannot be counted as belonging to the "Christian enablers",

No one is suggesting that those who live in Israel and call themselves
"jews" are the "enablers"; that reference was to those so-called christians
in the US's major churches who have overwhelmingly endorced and financed the
Iraq atrocity in complete disaccord with the teachings of Christ.

>but they do  activities that some would call war, others would call it
occupation,
> persecution, and discrimination against population in occupied areas, in
> itself a war crime according to international law. I does not really
> matter, since neither US or Israel recognize the court who would enforce
> such international laws, at least when it suits them. The same with the UN
> authority. The deck of cards is stacked and it is nothing that anyone can
> do about it, other than accept it in front of the barrel of the gun

Mao's little red book had it well, quoting the famed Chinese leader as
stating,"Peace is best achieved by the barrel of the gun". Great minds think
alike huh?

>and the threat that Americans will stop eating foreign food, like "French
fried".
> The latter did not work and the US version of those "French fried
potatoes"
> would not be passed by a French chef anyway, so why bother.

The "bother" is that when these killers of the innocent try to tell us via
their controlled lap dogs that they are only attacking "terrorists" and that
is a blatant outright lie, and it is this lie that deserves to be exposed,
as well as those who support it and propagate it, not to mention the
so-called rational that they use as justification for such acts of
barbarism.

Luc

>
> Hakan
>
> At 12:55 AM 10/1/2004, you wrote:
>
> >Here is yet one more article showing those dirty "terrorists" that Israel
> >loves to hunt down.
> >
> >http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=94b841fa40055601
> >
> >Ah, the brave IDF and it's US supporters and so-called "christian"
> >enablers. What champions of right and righteousness !
> >
> >What did Jesus say ?
> >"Suffer the little children to come unto me for OF SUCH is the kingdom of
> >Heaven", but do these phoney so-call christian enablers of wars and
> >slaughter interpret that ?- "make the little chikldren suffer". Sick
bastards.
> >
> >Luc
>
>
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[Biofuel] Why should we believe what Bush says in the debate..or anytime?

[Ross Cannon]

fool me once it's your fault, fool me twice it's my fault for falling
again. R

BUSH MISLED NATION IN LAST DEBATES
 
As President Bush takes the stage tonight for the 2004 presidential
debates, America will be reminded of all the promises Bush made - and
subsequently broke - in his debate performances throughout 2000.
 
In a 2000 debate, Bush said that "by far the vast majority [of my tax
cuts] go to the bottom end of the economic ladder." According to the
nonpartisan Citizens for Tax Justice, when his tax cuts are fully
implemented in 2010, the top 5 percent of income earners will get more
than half the tax cuts while the bottom half of Americans will receive
less than 8 percent of the benefits.[1]
 
In a 2000 debate, Bush said he believed gay marriage is a state issue.[2]
Then in 2004, he proposed a constitutional amendment banning gay
marriage.[3]
 
In a 2000 debate, Bush promised not to overuse the military, saying "if
we don't stop extending our troops all around the world and nation
building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down
the road, and I'm going to prevent that."[4] Now, because of Bush's
actions in Iraq and efforts to cut soldiers' pay,[5] the military is
facing recruitment gaps,[6] morale problems,[7] and troops who are
stretched far too thin.[8]
 
Sources:
 
1. "Details on the Bush Tax Cuts so far," Citizens for Tax Justice, Fall
2003, http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3369959&l=59914.
2. "Transcript of the South Carolina Republican Debate," CNN.com,
2/15/00,
http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3369959&l=59915.
3. "President Calls for Constitutional Amendment Protecting Marriage,"
The White House, 2/24/04,
http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3369959&l=59916.
4. "The First Presidential Election Debate," AustralianPolitics.com,
10/03/00, http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3369959&l=59917.
5. "Troops in Iraq face pay cut Pentagon says tough duty bonuses are
budget-buster," San Francisco Chronicle, 8/14/03,
http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3369959&l=59918.
6. "Numbers Challenge," ABCNews.com, 6/02/04,
http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3369959&l=59919.
7. "Troop morale in Iraq hits 'rock bottom'," Christian Science Monitor,
6/07/03, http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3369959&l=59920.
8. "Is the Army stretched too thin?," NBC Nightly News, 3/09/04,
http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3369959&l=59921.
0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0
The Equinox is here again, marking a brief time of balance on this
plane of existence.  We feel the passage of time with the colors of 
fall, spring for our friends to the south. We feel an intuitive need to 
pause and to reflect on where we are in our life's journey. 

RossCannon


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Re: [Biofuel] Cheap oil

[Hakan Falk]

Walt,

The oil crisis in the 70's was triggered by the Israeli-Arab war and an 
attempt by the Oil producing countries to effect the world in this.


Hakan


At 07:53 PM 9/30/2004, you wrote:

At 08:51 AM 9/30/04 -0500, Ross wrote:
>I just encountered two articles at my library that strengthens my
>belief that we are beginning to see the end of cheap oil NOW from how
>we've always known it.

Good article with some interesting points, but I feel the need to 
quibble a bit.
The problem is that oil _is_ cheap, even at $50 a barrel because while a 
barrel of oil is real, the dollar is not.


The "oil crisis" of the '70s was triggered by Nixon's decision to 
remove the dollar's gold backing and OPEC's rational response to his 
decision. Now, we're facing a similar situation. The world is being 
flooded with dollar denominated debt, a tidal wave which is going to 
affect the dollar denominated "value" of all  commodities.


People talk about "fifty dollar a barrel oil" as if "fifty 
dollars" means something. It doesn't. Each dollar is just a drop in a 
vast sea of unsupported, unredeemable debt, and as foreign investors 
start to catch on, the dollar is going to continue to fall in value. In 
short, it isn't so much a matter of the cost of oil going up, but rather 
the value of the dollar going down.


Walt



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