[OSM-talk] How to overcome lack of consensus

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

There are some OpenStreetMap features for which there is no consensus on
how to tag them. These include the path/footway controversy and the public
transport scheme, but there also many other minor issues. It does not seem
like consensus on these issues will arise soon. The lack of consensus does
cause problems for the Openstreetmap community, though. Therefore, it would
be good to have ideas or procedures on how to create consensus. I started a
discussion on this topic on the tagging mailing list, so please have a look
there if you are interested in this topic.

Best regards,
Matthijs Melissen
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Re: [OSM-talk] Admin boundaries - data consumers

[Matthijs Melissen]

On Nov 9, 2013 5:39 PM, Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org wrote;
 On Sat, Nov 09, 2013 at 03:25:35PM +, Rob Nickerson wrote:
  Perhaps some way of tracking our data consumers would be useful. Or
maybe
  we need a way for them to say which tags they are interested in so that
  they can receive mail just about these.

 That's the wrong way around. If you are using OSM data it is your job to
keep
 abreast of developments in OSM. A volunteer project like OSM can't keep
track
 of all their customers the way a commercial company might. That's not to
 say that we should change things willy-nilly, we should announce changes
 beforehand etc. But we do that on our mailing lists etc. And yes, that
puts
 a lot of burden on the users of OSM data, but they get it for free, so
there.

At the moment it is indeed not that easy for data consumers to keep track
of changes. The tagging mailing list had quite high traffic, and most posts
there are not directly relevant for data consumers.

I have been thinking about how we can improve this situation. Would it be
an idea to create a separate mailing list that just serves to announce
changes in the tagging scheme? That way we can separate the discussion on
creating tagging schemes (which data consumers can ignore if they wish)
from the announcements of new schemes.

Typically changes correspond to accepted proposals on the tagging mailing
list. We could add to the procedure of proposing tags that the proposer
should make an announcement to this list when hits proposal is accepted.

-- Matthijs
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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming changes - a reply to your feedback

[Matthijs Melissen]

First of all, thanks for the nice redesign.

 Imho there should be a way to remove the Welcome-textbox, too. (for
 non-logged in users)

 I think it provides a nice impetus to create an account. :)

To be honest, the welcome box annoys me as well, as a frequent
JOSM-editor, and I think it would also annoy me as a new user. Is the
way to attract new users really to annoy them? I have other companies
seen doing that, but I doubt Openstreetmap needs such a thing. I don't
know what are the opinions of other users, but as far as I'm
concerned, the website would be better if the box could be hidden.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tile refresh on openstreetmap.org

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 28 February 2014 15:26, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote:
 On 28/02/14 15:05, Christoph Hormann wrote:

 I have the impression the rerendering of tiles on openstreetmap.org is
 very slow at the moment - according to /status various z=11 tiles are
 from January 11.  Also /dirty no more seems to work (at least not on
 the lower zoom levels).

 Has there been a change in configuration recently that caused this?

 There have been several stylesheet updates in the last week so the servers
 are very busy and are likely to serve old tiles if they are too busy to
 rerender them.

The stylesheets have seen a lot of development effort recently: both
the number of new bugs and features suggested and the number of new
users in the repository have increased a lot. It can therefore be
expected that we will keep seeing regular stylesheet updates in the
future. Would there be a way to avoid large rendering queues with
every update? Rolling out the stylesheets region by region might solve
this problem, but that would probably be nearly impossible to set up
and maintain. I don't really see how we can avoid this problem, but
perhaps anyone else has an idea?

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Key:layer update

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 9 March 2014 10:30, Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com wrote:
 for some time now I have been working on the wiki page to state the rules
 as clearly as possible.. hope that most of the improvements are fairly
 uncontroversial.

Thank you for doing this, it's very useful to have this properly
documented. I have been working on layering in the main CartoCSS
stylesheet, and found that at the moment, indeed not all aspects of
the layering model are defined precise enough.

A question: a single road can contain sections on multiple layers, so
there will be a point where the sections that are on different layers
meet. At that point, there might even be a side street. However, no
vertical ordering should be assumed at such a point. It is written
that The vertical ordering established by the layer values is valid
exactly only in the point where the ways cross or objects overlap.
Perhaps 'crossing' should be interpreted here as crossing without
node, but that causes problems with bridge/waterway.

In other words, I am wondering for each of the following situations if
the roads should be interpreted as meeting on the same or different
levels:
- A node where two waterways on layer 1 and two roads on layer 2 meet;
- A node where two roads on layer 1 and two roads on layer 2 meet;
- A node where two roads on layer 1 and one road on layer 2 meet;
- A node where one road on layer 1 and one road on layer 2 meet.

Perhaps some text that answers questions like this should be added to
the Wiki-page.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Drop rendering of permissive access?

[Matthijs Melissen]

We are currently considering dropping the rendering of access=permissive
(currently rendered as green dashes) from openstreetmap-carto, the main map
on opensteetmap.org. See here for the discussion:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/682

We would welcome any feedback from the community on this decision. To keep
the discussion centralized, we would prefer replies on Github rather than
on the mailing list.

-- Matthijs
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Re: [OSM-talk] Drop rendering of permissive access?

[Matthijs Melissen]

Thank you for all the comments. Based on the comments here and on
Github, we have decided to drop the rendering of access=permissive.

I'm also happy with all comments that go beyond the access=permissive
issue. We will take them into account when making further changes.

-- Matthijs

On 30 June 2014 22:23, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote:
 We are currently considering dropping the rendering of access=permissive
 (currently rendered as green dashes) from openstreetmap-carto, the main map
 on opensteetmap.org. See here for the discussion:
 https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/682

 We would welcome any feedback from the community on this decision. To keep
 the discussion centralized, we would prefer replies on Github rather than on
 the mailing list.

 -- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 23 July 2014 02:51, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:
 v2.17.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been released, though not
 yet deployed on tile.osm.org.

I would like to thank everyone for all comments, which are really helpful.

Because there are so many comments about different aspects, and
because the replies to them will likely provoke further replies, I
will mainly respond here with references to the relevant issues on
Github. This hopefully will make it easier for everyone to keep an
overview, by keeping the discussion in one place. I hope it also will
make it easier for everyone to only follow the parts of the discussion
in which they are interested.

In general, the quickest way to get attention to a problem is to
create an issue on Github:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto. The stylesheet
developers do not follow all threads here on talk, while on Github
issues are guaranteed to be seen.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 24 July 2014 05:17, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote:
 I hope craft=* and office=* will follow. Would probably encourage
 more people to map them and report missing/wrong POIs.

We are working on it, but there are still some issues to resolve. See
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/108.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 25 July 2014 12:52, Andy Street a...@street.me.uk wrote:
 * Cleaning up path rendering on low zooms
 (https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/747)

 Is there any chance this could be tweaked slightly? A lot of the
 public footpaths near me are now disappearing completely
 at z13/z14 because they include access=private as part of their
 access tagging.


Thank you for your comments. At first sight, this seems to be a
tagging problem, but if you still disagree, feel free to open an issue
on Github.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 25 July 2014 13:59, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson j...@betra.is wrote:
 I was under the impression more shops would be displayed than previously?

 So far I'm seeing fewer, a notable example being liquor stores that have now
 vanished from visual.

 Examples: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2939951075
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2125818740

See https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/762.

 Also worrying that amenity=clinic still isn't displayed with the cross like
 pharmacy and others, in many rural places this is the only healthcare
 around.
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2303511227

See https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/763.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi Tom,

On 25 July 2014 15:26, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote:
 Traditionally we have always said that out web site is aimed at supporting
 mappers and not at providing end user services like helping people navigate
 - we provide the data to let other people build services like that.

I have been looking before at history of the mailing lists etc. to see
if I could find back discussions about the  'purpose of the main map',
but I couldn't find anything. I would be very interested to read what
has been discussed in the past about this topic, and which arguments
were given. Do you remember where this has been discussed? Even a
rough year, or whether it was the forum/mailing list/irc, would help
already. Hopefully you can help.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes (nature_reserve highway=services)

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 25 July 2014 15:30, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:
 highway=services (ie service stations where you can get a drink/meal etc) as
 an area are rendering as a high level layer hiding detail such as car parks.
 Can this be put at a lower level?

I created an issue for that here:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/764

 leisure=nature_reserve
 Used to have an infill of text 'NR'. that's been removed but not replaced by
 anything, it's now just a faint border, at all levels, which makes it
 extremely difficult to distinguish. According to this
 https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/commit/c505f51a930fe00977af8ae7fc2d58a36a659ff1
 it was meant to render the same as national parks but doesn't appear to
 work: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.4624/-2.4755

I think it does render the same as national parks, but apparently that
is not enough. A issue for this exists already:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/563

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads

[Matthijs Melissen]

Residential roads in the UK often seem to have 'private road' signs, such as:

- 'Private road'
- 'Private road no parking'
- 'Private road no parking no turning'
- 'Residents only no unauthorised parking or turning'

How do people tag these roads? For which of these would you use access=private?

Thanks in advance.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 3 August 2014 11:18, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com wrote:
 Residential roads in the UK often seem to have 'private road' signs, such
 as:

 - 'Private road'
 - 'Private road no parking'
 - 'Private road no parking no turning'
 - 'Residents only no unauthorised parking or turning'

 How do people tag these roads? For which of these would you use
 access=private?

 I would tag them all with access=destination, unless there are additional
 signs that forbid entering.
 A private road is privately owned and maintained, but you normally may use
 it to reach the properties facing it as visitor or for delivery purposes.

Most private roads are cul-de-sacs, but in the hypothetical situation
where a private road connects two non-private roads, would there be a
legal reason you couldn't use the private road as shortcut?

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.18.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.18.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been released.

Changes include:

* Remove transparency from certain landuse tags
(https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/792)
* Render lake names on lower zoom levels
(https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/816)
* Rewrite code for road ordering, resolving various road layering bugs
(https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/626)
* Various bug fixes

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.17.0...v2.18.0.

We welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Using unit tags

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 8 August 2014 16:58, Nathan Mixter nmix...@gmail.com wrote:
 Is there any way we can start using the addr:unit tag for buildings? This
 was approved several years ago but it still doesn't render yet. If both the
 addr:housenumber and addr:unit tags are used, the housenumber tag is still
 dominant. This looks really weird having several of the same housenumbers on
 one building. If the unit tags is there it should override the housenumber
 tag. Some people try to get around this restriction by placing the main
 housenumber inside the building shape and then using an additional
 housenumber tag as a node for each of the individual units in the building.
 Does anybody know if this issue has been addressed on the carto page.


The topic has briefly been touched in this issue:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/264

Feel free to comment on that issue or report a new issue.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Incorrect speed limit anonymous notes - who is behind that?

[Matthijs Melissen]

I see a lot of comments like this. The underlying problem seems to be
that it is not clear whether notes are meant for armchair mappers, or
for surveyors in the field.

I think both types of notes are useful: that way the notes can serve
as a two-way communication between mappers in the field (for example
novices who don't know how to edit the map themselves) and armchair
mappers (who might want to communicate with mappers in the field if
they are unable to do a field check themselves at that moment).

So the solution might be very simple: make two types of notes, 'desk'
notes and 'field' notes. The desk notes can be handled by armchair
mappers. The field notes need a check in the field. Notes created by
anonymous users should be desk notes by default, and if information is
missing, the armchair mapper should be able to turn it into a field
note.

The notes JB refers seem to be field-type notes. I think they are
useful, and I think it's not helpful if armchair mappers try to close
all of them without doing a survey.

Anyone think a split in field and desk notes is a good idea?
Implementation of this should be easy.

-- Matthijs

On 10 August 2014 11:50, JB jb...@mailoo.org wrote:
 Hello,
 I think I will reopen the debate here, by asking a simple question: how many
 of those saying hey, let this note open, it does no harm to anybody have
 actually browsed a country for its opened notes and tried to close them? How
 many have done the same with openstreetbugs during its last year of life?
 If you have not, let me tell you, loud and clear: the note database will
 become unusable soon. When you browse 10 notes and are forced to leave 9
 open because it does provide no clean information, you just stop trying.
 That is why during OSB close up, I found so many notes of that kind
 (continue the path, this is wrong, this does not exist, etc.), that where
 just not clear enough, or where just too old (the correction had been done
 without OSB), and most of them where more than 2 years old. And this is why
 OSB was a mess in the end.
 I have tried to keep the DB clean in France, am still trying by beeing less
 narrow-minded, but I just see its quality decreasing every day.
 So I do not have the exact number, but adding some 10s of little valued
 notes every week saying this speed limit may be wrong, some of them added
 by error (not along a highway) does not seem an improvement to the notes DB
 to me.
 JB.


 Le 10/08/2014 09:42, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit :


 Il giorno 09/ago/2014, alle ore 13:56, Norbert Wenzel
 norbert.wenzel.li...@gmail.com ha scritto:

 just seeing these notes along a
 motorway every few kilometers. And since these messages don't tell what
 the actual speed limit should be and where it starts it gets really
 annoying to close all these automatically generated notes.


 why are you closing them, if you can't solve the issue? I would keep them
 open, if you are not sure that the limit is correct in OSM

 cheers,
 Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Changes in the rendering

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 10 August 2014 10:09, Markus Lindholm markus.lindh...@gmail.com wrote:
 - highway=platform is no longer rendered
 - railway=tram is no longer rendered if it shares a way with highway=*

 Are these bugs or a deliberate change?

These are bugs, thanks for reporting. I created issues on Github for them:
- https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/871
- https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/874

In general, if you want a quick response, it is easier to create the
issues directly on Github as not all stylesheet maintainers follow the
talk mailing list.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads

[Matthijs Melissen]

access=yes, skateboard=no, bicycle=careful? :)

-- Matthijs

On 10 August 2014 16:33, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Matthijs,

 Spotted the following sign related to your tagging of private roads
 discussion the other day. Enjoy :-)

 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6J5ZA1hu93beGxtSTVGeUR2aFRqQzdaYXNGR0d6WlBhQXFr/edit?usp=sharing

 Rob

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 27 August 2014 17:47, Edward Betts edw...@4angle.com wrote:
 I've written some code to match items in Wikidata with items in OSM. Currently
 I have found 70,849 unique matches, where there is a one-to-one mapping
 between OSM and Wikidata objects.

To clarify (this wasn't clear to me from your e-mail): you are not
purely matching name tags, but you also require matching objects to be
in close geographic proximity (using the location tag from Wikidata).

Doing that, I think the chance of wrong matching is negligible. I also
looked through the list myself, and couldn't find any wrong match.

I would say go ahead, the additional data would surely be useful for
openstreetmap.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.19.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.19.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released. It will be rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers in
one of the next days.

Changes include:

* Improve rendering of labels of highway areas
(https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/865)
* Various bug fixes

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.18.0...v2.19.0.

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.19.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 27 August 2014 19:02, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote:
 On 27/08/14 18:49, Matthijs Melissen wrote:

 Today, v2.19.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
 released. It will be rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers in
 one of the next days.

 Actually it probably won't be rolled out just yet as we have a degraded disk
 array in one of the tile servers that I want to get fixed before we put any
 more load on it.

I deliberately tried being as vague as possible on the schedule :).

In any case thank you for your work! Server maintenance is mainly
invisible, but as http://git.openstreetmap.org/chef.git/ shows, a lot
of work is going on behind the scenes.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] openstreetmap-carto upgrade, new features, interesting issues

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 7 September 2014 13:51, Gorm E. Johnsen osml...@gorm.cc wrote:
 Any changes to runways and taxiways?
 These seem to have an issue at the moment. Hard to tell at a glance due to
 cached tiles and rendering ques.
 But at least they were not rendered at zoom 15 at one recent point in time.

There is indeed an issue with aeroways, which are currently not
rendered when tagged as ways:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/927

A solution has already been written, but it hasn't been accepted yet:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/928

We hope to roll out the solution as soon as possible.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Wood Park mapnik carto anomaly?

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 16 September 2014 11:25, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:
 I've mapped an area where a woodland overlaps with a park:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.48959/-2.52536

 The new mapnik rendering doesn't display it.
 Here's a comparison with old  new:
 http://bl.ocks.org/tyrasd/raw/6164696/#16.00/51.4890/-2.5267

In general, we render smaller landuse on top of larger landuse. That
gives sometimes unexpected results if two landuse areas overlap each
other only partially. However, I can't think of any better ordering.

In the old rendering, the overlap was visible because we rendered park
transparent. However, we removed the transparent rendering because it
often gives counterintuitive colours. The old rendering of this place
is a good example: you wouldn't really guess that the middle green
colour denotes an overlap of wood and park.

So I don't think this is something we can really fix on the rendering side.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Proposed changes to landcover labelling in openstreetmap-carto

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

We are currently working on changes in the rendering of landcover
labels in openstreetmap-carto, the rendering that is used for the
default map on www.openstreetmap.org.

Before we roll out these changes, we would like to ask you for your feedback.

A demo which allows you to compare the old and new rendering can be
found here: http://tile.paulnorman.ca/demo/landcover-labels.html. We
currently only have some areas in Northern America loaded on the demo
server.

Changes to the rendering include:
- All rendered landcover tags now have their name rendered.
- The minimum zoom level of labels is now defined based on the
rendered size of the area
- Font size now also depends on the rendered size
- Landuse labels are now rendered oblique, to easier visually tell
them apart from village and POI labels.
- All labels are rendered in a colour similar to the landuse they belong to.

More details can be found on Github:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/941.

We look forward to hear your opinion on the changes. Feel free to give
your comments either as a reply to this message, or on the Github
issue.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.22.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.22.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers. It might
take up to 48 hours before all tiles show the new rendering.

Changes include:

* Major changes in landcover labelling. Landcover labels are now
rendered oblique, and in the colour of the landuse they belong to. The
minimum zoom level on which the labels appear, as well as their font
size, now depends on the size of the landcover object. All rendered
landcover labels now have their name rendered. The new rendering might
highlight tagging errors, so all mappers are invited to inspect their
local area for possible problems. Note that adding the name tag to the
landuse area rather than to a node generally yields better results.
* Changes in island and islet labelling. Islets (place=islet) now have
their name rendered. The minimum zoom level on which islands and
islets appear now depends on the island/islet size. The area size can
only be used when the island/islet is tagged as area, not as point, so
tagging islands/islets as area is recommended. Note that smaller
place=island objects can now be retagged as place=islet without losing
their label in the main renderer.
* Bus stops now have their name rendered.
* Apart from bridge=yes, we now also render the bridge keys boardwalk,
cantilever, covered, low_water_crossing, movable, trestle, and
viaduct. When applicable, bridges can now be retagged using the
correct key.
* Ferries now have their name rendered (when applicable), and
overlapping ferry lines now look better.
* Gates are no longer rendered on zoom level 15.
* Streams, ditches and drains are now rendered slightly wider.
* Long place names are now wrapped.
* Aerodrome names are now wrapped.
* Various bug fixes.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.21.0...v2.22.0.

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Is the standard map down?

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 9 October 2014 12:56, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:
 It appears the mapnik tiles server is down. I'm just getting a grey window
 for the rendering at the moment. Cycle/transport etc are displaying.
 Are others getting the same? Anybody able to sort the problem?

I can confirm this problem. I'm getting 404 errors on some tiles
(mainly on high zooms, so probably uncached ones). An example (at the
time of writing) is
http://a.tile.openstreetmap.org/17/62914/81089.png.

The issue occurs on both the a, b and c tile servers.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 22 October 2014 12:37, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
 Currently there are 130 Million buildings
 in OSM and 46 Million housenumbers.

Do we know how many of these addresses come from imports? I wouldn't
be surprised if over 90% of the housenumbers in OSM come from imports.

The Dutch BAG import accounts for 8 million adresses, and the Czech
RUIAN import accounts for 3 million addresses. Then there have also
been large imports at least in Germany, Poland, and France, but for
these countries I can't find exact numbers.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] The Working Groups need you!

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 27 Oct 2014 16:16, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:

 With the recent interest in the OSMF, I'm hoping to capitalize on this
and boost working group participation.

Hi Paul,

As I'm too lazy to look up the regulations, could you tell me whether
working group members are required to be member of the foundation?

Kind regards,
Matthijs
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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.23.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.23.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers. It might
take up to 48 hours before all tiles show the new rendering.

Changes include:

* Various small rendering changes to icon labels.
* New icons for place of worship, windmill, hostel, and camping; minor
icon changes for cinema, recycling, and hairdresser.
* The tag tourism=bed_and_breakfast is no longer rendered - please use
tourism=guest_house instead.
* Tertiary roads are now rendered yellow from z12 instead of z13.
* The tag shop=mall is now rendered like landuse=retail.
* Barriers, level crossings, and mini roundabouts no longer block text
from appearing.
* The places of worship of Jehova's witnesses are no longer rendered as a cross.
* The rendering of highway=track areas has been changed.
* Large national parks and nature reserves now have their name
rendered along the outline.
* There is no longer a gap rendered between adjoining polygons of the same type.
* Various other bug fixes.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.22.0...v2.23.0.

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.23.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 29 October 2014 20:59, Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com wrote:
 I guess it's not Matthijs who made this decision...

That's correct. See
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/695 for more
details.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.24.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.24.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers. It might
take up to 48 hours before all tiles show the new rendering.

Changes include:

* Improve legibility of shop names.
* Better rendering of admin borders.
* Behind-the-scenes changes of (some) PNG icons to SVG.
* Labels for building names, addr:housename and addr:housenumber are
now prioritized by building size.
* Various bug fixes.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.23.0...v2.24.0.

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

We are considering to change the colour of buildings in
openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org.
Because this change has a significant effect on the looks of the map,
we would like to consult the community before going ahead with this
change.

A rendering demo can be found here (left the current rendering, right
the proposal):
http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#15.00/50.0611/19.9393
http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#14.00/40.7048/-74.0040
Please note that only selected regions have been loaded into the demo server.

As can be seen, the new building colour is much lighter. This should
make the map more pleasant to the eye, as well as make it easier to
see the road network in areas with many buildings.

More info can be found in the Github issue:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/565. I would
like to thank Paul Norman and Mateusz Konieczny, who have done the
majority of the work.

Please let us know what you think of the new rendering, either on
Github or as a reply to this message.

Kind regards,
Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 27 November 2014 at 02:03, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote:
 Question. I know this wasn't asked, but in the first link,
 http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#15.00/50.0611/19.9393,
 but some of the trees don't render in the new version, yet some do. I didn't
 look at the tags to see the differences. Personally I like the individual
 trees rendering.

The new version is not automatically updated with the latest data.
Probably some of the trees were added recently and are not yet in the
database of the demo database. This proposal doesn't influence the
rendering of trees.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 27 Nov 2014 09:18, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
 Not sure your demo is proving anything. Zooming in on the area covered
 by the demo on the live map I'm not seeing very much of the corruptions

Have their been corruptions? I sm not sure what you are referring to.

 introduced by switching building names from brown to purple

We have neither brown nor purple building names, nor have we ever had them.
Brown is used for some amenities, and pink is used for shops. This hasn't
changed lately.

 and adding
 the 'centroid' dt which then pushes everything off to one side :(

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.

 I don't
 unfortunately have an example of the section which had much tidier brown
 text on all the buildings, but I think I HAVE established that a zoom
 level should use the icon OMLY when the name is not displayed, and if
 there is no icon don't just display a dot :(

The purple dots are used for shop types for which we don't have a specific
icon. We haven't received other complaints about this. This dhould not have
replaced any brown.

-- Matthijs
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Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 27 November 2014 at 22:46, christian.pietz...@googlemail.com
christian.pietz...@gmail.com wrote:
 in my opinion buildings could be slightly darker. It is visible enough on
 higher zoom levels but at zoom 14 and above its like there are no buildings.
 (Especially buildings inside industrial areas)

Just to be clear, you mean 14 and *below*, right? Like, numbers less
than or equal to 14.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.25.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.25.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers. It might
take up to 48 hours before all tiles show the new rendering.

Changes include:

* New style for marsh/wetland rendering.
* Added rendering for marsh/wetland and mud labels.
* Changed rendering of national parks boundaries.
* Changed rendering of theme park boundaries.
* Country and state labels are now only rendered for areas of a minimum size.
* Airport icons are now also rendered on zoom 11, 12 and 13.
* Various bug fixes.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.24.0...v2.25.0.

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Back on OSM

[Matthijs Melissen]

As this is a question specifically relating to the situation in the
Netherlands, best to ask your question on the Dutch forum:
http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=12

-- Matthijs

2014-12-19 12:33 GMT+00:00 Peter pe...@out4walkabout.be:
 Hallo iedereen,

 Eindelijk nog eens vrije tijd en natuurlijk kwam OSM weer op de proppen.
 Dacht beginnen te mappen voor mijn dorp (Peutie) maar zie dat er de laatste 
 tijd al veel aangepast werd. Nu stel ik vast dat er verschillende manieren 
 worden gebruikt in het aanmaken van huizen, plaatsen van nummers enz
 Wat is nu de juiste manier om huizen en hun nummer op de kaart te zetten want 
 wat betreft Peutie zie ik uiteenlopende mogelijkheden.

 If someone needs this mail in English feel free to let me know.

 Peter
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Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 27 November 2014 at 01:16, Matthijs Melissen
i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote:
 We are considering to change the colour of buildings in
 openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org.
 Because this change has a significant effect on the looks of the map,
 we would like to consult the community before going ahead with this
 change.

I would like to thank everyone for their feedback, either here or on
Github. The new style has been accepted with some improvements, and is
about to be deployed.

We have changed some aspects of the rendering as the result of your
suggestions. In particular, we made the buildings a bit darker on zoom
levels up to zoom 14, and we shifted the colour to colour that is more
gray rather than brownish.

There are still a couple of minor issues of which we are aware, such
as the rendering of buildings on top of barracks. We will keep working
on solving these.

We also haven't taken a definite decision on whether to render
churches darker or not. It is clear that opinions diverge on this
topic. We might reconsider the decision to render churches darker in
the future.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.26.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.26.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released. It will be rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers soon.

Changes include:

* Buildings are now rendered in a much lighter colour
* Airport labels are rendered in a different colour
* The tag natural=mud is rendered from z10 instead of z13
* City names no longer hide country and state names on low zoom levels
* The tag natural=saddle is now rendered
* Areas tagged as tourism=attraction are no longer rendered in a special way
* Various bug fixes

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.25.0...v2.26.0.

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.28.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Yesterday, v2.28.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been released
and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers.

This version includes the following changes:
* The tags amenity=dentist and amenity=townhall are now rendered.
* The tag natural=lake, which has fallen in disuse, is no longer rendered.
* New icons for amenity=fast_food, amenity=police,
amenity=fire_station, amenity=bier_garden, amenity=theatre,
amenity=drinking_water.
* Slightly improved icons for amenity=restaurant, amenity=bar,
amenity=cafe, amenity=embassy, tourism=picnic_site,
tourism=picnic_table, amenity=prison, historic=memorial.
* Waterways with intermittent=yes are now rendered dashed.
* The tag highway=proposed is rendered less prominently.
* Slightly change building colour and outline.
* Labels for natural=glacier,sand,scree,shingle,bare_rock are now
rendered from lower zoomlevels.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.27.0...v2.28.0 .

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing on osm.org

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 16 February 2015 at 19:20, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:
 Congratulations to all those who were involved in getting directions/routing
 on openstreetmap.org :-)

A large step forward, thanks to Richard Fairhurst and all others who
made this possible!

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] How We Map

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 10 February 2015 at 12:19, Jo Walsh metaz...@fastmail.net wrote:
 I wish to float this draft page for discussion and possibly future
 approval!

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/How_We_Map

I welcome this page, I think it is very useful.

One small comment - I oppose the following sentence:

| OpenStreetMap has very few rules on tagging. There are tagging
| standards but they evolve instead of being pushed through.

There is no consensus on this point, and including it in official 'How
we map' guidelines would falsely suggest that there exists such a
consensus. It is also not true that we map in this way: many tags that
we are using have been proposed before they were used, see
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Proposed_features_%22Approved%22.

Also, the meaning of this sentence is not clear: what does it mean for
a tagging standard to 'evolve', and what does it mean for a tagging
standard to be 'pushed through'?

In any case, I would like to thank you for drafting this document.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.27.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.27.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers.

Changes include:

* The following tags are now rendered: amenity=food_court,
amenity=doctors, natural=scree, natural=shingle, natural=bare_rock,
leisure=water_park, leisure=miniature_golf.
* The tags leisure=golf_course is now rendered with an icon.
* The following tags are no longer rendered: natural=desert,
military=barracks, and landuse=field are no longer rendered. The tags
natural=sand, landuse=military, and landuse=farmland might in some
cases be replacements.
* New icons for amenity=pharmacy, amenity=atm, amenity=bank,
shop=bakery, and amenity=cinema.
* Slightly improved icon for amenity=hospital, tourism=museum,
amenity=recycling, tourism=camping, leisure=playground, places of
worship.
* Private leisure=playground and amenity=recycling are now rendered transparent
* Prison areas are now rendered.
* Various bug fixes.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.26.1...v2.27.0

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.26.1

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.26.1 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been released
and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers.

This version only includes one change:
* Areas tagged with amenity=place_of_worship and no building tag are
rendered again.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.26.0...v2.26.1.

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

A couple or comments:

- We are aware that not everyone likes the new colours, but the
comments we received (both here and on Github) indicates that a
majority prefers lighter colours.

- Can anyone who dislikes the new building colours please indicate
which hardware you are using when looking at the map? It would be
interesting to see if the problems are worse on certain types of
hardware. It would be even better if you could compare multiple
devices (e.g. desktop and mobile, or desktop and laptop).

- I'd be happy with more customisation of the style.  One of the
explicit design goals of osm-carto is to make the style easily
customizable. I agree it would be nice to have easy customisation
available through osm.org, but I have my hands full on the current
stylesheet already, so it won't be me who will be implementing that.

- Lester, the discussion was not a couple of days over the holiday
season. My initial request for feedback was at 27 November.

Also I'm sorry if I don't respond to every comment individually. I am
trying to balance the time spend on communicating with the community
and writing code - if I would go into individual discussions with
everyone on the list, I wouldn't be able to write a single line of
code. I hope I'm striking the right balance.

Kind regards,
Matthijs

On 27 November 2014 at 01:16, Matthijs Melissen
i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote:
 Dear all,

 We are considering to change the colour of buildings in
 openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org.
 Because this change has a significant effect on the looks of the map,
 we would like to consult the community before going ahead with this
 change.

 A rendering demo can be found here (left the current rendering, right
 the proposal):
 http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#15.00/50.0611/19.9393
 http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#14.00/40.7048/-74.0040
 Please note that only selected regions have been loaded into the demo server.

 As can be seen, the new building colour is much lighter. This should
 make the map more pleasant to the eye, as well as make it easier to
 see the road network in areas with many buildings.

 More info can be found in the Github issue:
 https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/565. I would
 like to thank Paul Norman and Mateusz Konieczny, who have done the
 majority of the work.

 Please let us know what you think of the new rendering, either on
 Github or as a reply to this message.

 Kind regards,
 Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Voting on voting system for proposals

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 18 March 2015 at 21:43, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote:
 Paul,
 Since you are involved with updating the rendering, can you tell us the
 process to decide what should be rendered? I realize that part of it must be
 stylistic, but what outside influences cause you to include a tag as part of
 the standard rendered OSM tile? Would you render a tag without a wiki entry,
 or with just a proposal?

I'm not Paul, but I can give you my view:
As far as I know, we don't have a policy on which tags to include in
the rendering, and there is currently no consensus within the
development team on what the best policy would be. Personally I'm
trying to steer towards requiring an accepted proposal plus
documentation on the wiki before rendering a new tag, but I know not
all of the developers share this point of view. Currently, proposals
for newly rendered tags are currently discussed on a case by case
base.

 How does the fact that it may be useful to specific groups, ie, cyclists
 which has its own style impact your decisions?

Objects aimed at specific user groups are less likely to be rendered,
and if they are rendered they will appear at higher zoomlevels. For
example, we don't render fire hydrants because they are of little
interest to the general public.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mechanically Cleaning Up FIXME Tags

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 27 February 2015 at 14:30, JB jb...@mailoo.org wrote:
 On http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-overview, I prefer the first
 graph, showing how the notes db is already getting clustered

I find the page in fact a bit hard to read (but apart from that very
useful). What is the difference between the first and fourth graph?

In my opinion, the main performance indicator should be the monthly
number of notes closed. As long as the monthly number of closed notes is
increasing, I think it doesn't really matter if the proportion of
close-to-open actions is increasing too. Is there any way in which I
can read the monthly number of close actions from the graphs?

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Formal proposal: mechanically reverting fixme=set␣better␣denotation / denotation=cluster

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 1 March 2015 at 21:04, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:
 This is now a formal proposal to mechanically remove:

 denotation=cluster
 fixme=set␣better␣denotation


 From 200,000+ nodes.  See
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Bryce_C_Nesbitt


I support this proposal.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Standard rendering totally fuzzy for countries boundaries

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 26 February 2015 at 12:39, Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com wrote:
 I would like to know where is the good door to knock on to report an issue
 with the OSM standard rendering. For a few months, it became totally fuzzy
 regarding the countries boundaries, almost preventing to distinguish the
 countries from each other. Eg in Westerm Africa from zoom 4, then zoom in on
 Senegal and Gambia down to zoom 9:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=4/15.88/-6.37
 I suggest to use the great improvements made on the osmfr rendering.


This is a known problem, see the following issue:

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/907

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Standard rendering totally fuzzy for countries boundaries

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 26 February 2015 at 13:56, Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com wrote:
 Do the people in charge of the rendering plan to solve this? The UI is
 improving more and more, would be great if the standard map becomes fully
 understandable.

Yes, we're planning to solve this (it is bothering me too). However,
there are still 333 other open issues, and the people in charge are
volunteers with a limited amount of time. If you would like to speed
things up, you're more than welcome to join us and write a pull
request on Github.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Wiki project: Article about the standard layer, with key

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 20 April 2015 at 13:27, Wuzzy wuz...@mail.ru wrote:
 I have created a wiki page about the Standard layer found on
 www.openstreetmap.org

 Here it is:
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Standard_tile_layer

Thanks for that!

I think Andy was also trying to create an updated map key, but I'm not
sure if he's still working on it. He used software he created for that
himself:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/mapnik-legendary

 Here are two goals of this wiki page:
 1) Concentrate on user's view, not mapper's view
 2) Give a brief description of the Standard layer and other information
 of intererest.
 3) Document all the map colors, symbols and lines. Also known as “key”.

You might also be interested in
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/README.md
and
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/CARTOGRAPHY.md .

I think it would be good not to duplicate too much information.

 There are the following challenges:
 - I want to have the pure, unaltered icons in their original size. Many
   icons I found in the wiki are pretty outdated.

Everything you need is in
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/tree/master/symbols
.

 - If possible, the icons should be stored as uniform as possible in the
   wiki. It looks ugly if all the icons are displayed in different sizes

I'm not sure what you mean by that, do the icons above help?

 - Documenting all the non-obvious stuff about the layer, such as that
   private access things are drawn semi-transparent, etc.

Would be useful indeed, I'm afraid you'd need to read the source code for that.

 - Keeping this whole thing up to date

Yes, that would be the largest challenge. Perhaps a pseudo-automated
solution, such as legendary, would be the easiest to keep things up to
date.

 You can help by:
 - Extending the key
 - Give advice if you know more about the inner workings of the Standard
   layer
 - Uploading missing icons into the wiki
 - Updating outdated icons in the wiki
 - Adding more general information about this layer

I don't really have time to actively contribute to updating the page,
but I'm happy to help with any questions you might have (I'm one of
the maintainers of the Standard style).

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Wiki project: Article about the standard layer, with key

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 26 April 2015 at 16:11, colliar colliar4e...@aol.com wrote:
 Nice work so far, but are the any plans on carto side and on the wiki
 side to support the taginfo feature projects ?

From the carto side not at the moment, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/961 .

It is currently not possible to generate the list of supported tags
automatically, and nobody has volunteered to maintain the list
manually.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.30.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 14 May 2015 at 00:34, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote:
 On 13 May 2015 at 21:32, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:
 There already is an icon for shop=bicycle.

 There's already an icon for amenity=courthouse


Thanks for the corrections Dave and Mike, shop=bicycle and
amenity=court_house are indeed redesigned icons, not new ones

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.30.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.30.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been rolled
out to the openstreetmap.org servers.

This version includes the following changes:
* New wetland rendering, including differentiation based on the wetland key.
* Added rendering for amenity=bicycle_parking.
* Added icons for historic=monument, amenity=court_house,
amenity=bench, amenity=waste_basket, man_made=hunting_stand,
shop=alcohol, shop=electronics, shop=furniture, shop=gift,
shop=jewelry/jewellery, shop=mobile_phone, shop=optician, shop=shoes,
shop=diy, shop=hardware, and shop=bicycle.
* Changed icon for shop=clothes, historic=archaeological_site,
highway=bus_stop, tourism=caravan_site, tourism=motel, power=generator
with generator:source=wind, and man_made=lighthouse.
* Added rendering for landuse=greenhouse_horticulture (rendered as
landuse=farmland).
* Changed rendering for man_made=cutline
* Added name labels to tourism=viewpoint, amenity=post_office,
natural=tree, amenity=bicycle_rental,  man_made=mast,
amenity=recycling, amenity=drinking_water, man_made=water_tower,
tourism=picnic_site, leisure=picnic_table, and leisure=slipway,
amenity=car_sharing (operator label) and amenity=atm (operator label).
* Added name labels to natural=cliff and man_made=embankment.
* Better water halos.
* Various bug fixes.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.29.0...v2.30.0 .

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed Semi Mechanical Edit : recycling:excrement

[Matthijs Melissen]

Good idea, I support this proposal.

-- Matthijs
On 17 Apr 2015 02:14, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:

 See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Bryce_C_Nesbitt

 The tag recycling:excrement is used 55 times, and has at least four
 distinct meanings.
 I propose to use context to determine the meaning, and retag according to
 current conventions. For example recycling:excrement at a marina dock
 will be assume as a marine sewage pumpout station.  The same tag in a city
 park will be a dog waste bin.  Usually it's quite clear.

 This is not a true mechanical edit per
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct
 as I will examine each node by hand, and exit by hand.  Regardless, I am
 writing to solicit comments or concerns.  I will not visit the locations,
 but may reference official websites.

 Given the state of the tag, I expect zero data consumer impact.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Best base to build on ...

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 15 August 2015 at 17:14, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
 The obvious question is that given tilemill is not longer being
 maintained, what are the preferred alternatives?

Depending on what you need exactly, Kosmtik might be an alternative:
https://github.com/kosmtik/kosmtik


-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Issue-Tracker for http[s]://www.openstreetmap.org

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 16 July 2015 at 15:22, Karl-Philipp Richter rich...@richtercloud.de wrote:
 Is there an issue tracker for http[s]://www.openstreetmap.org or have
 there ever been any plans for such a useful and straightforward way of
 introducing improvements (it'd be not exposed in a mail list archive
 reachable by a search engine, then).

There are actually three thing you see on www.openstreetmap.org: the
map data, the map tiles (rendering style), and the website itself.

To report bugs in the map data, use the 'Add a note to the map'
button. Issues in the rendering style can be reported on
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues. Issues in
the website can be reported on
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.36.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.36.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers. It might
still take a couple of days before all tiles show the new rendering.

Changes include:

* Major rewrite of road and railway rendering, as part of Mateusz
Konieczny's Google Summer of Code project. See
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2015/10/30/openstreetmap-org-map-changing/
for more information.
* Added rendering of the following tags:
  - amenity=fountain
  - amenity=car_wash
  - historic=wayside_cross and man_made=cross
  - shop=bag
  - shop=outdoor
  - power=plant (labels)
* Changed rendering of the following objects:
  - Placenames (new algorithm for deciding what placenames to render
on low zoomlevels)
  - Road shields
  - Oneway arrows
  - Glaciers
  - Marina labels
  - Station labels
* Dropped rendering of the following tags:
  - amenity=car_sharing (not relevant for the general public)
  - shop=antique (use shop=antiques)
  - shop=betting (use shop=lottery or shop=bookmaker)
  - shop=delicatessen (use shop=deli)
  - shop=dive (use shop=scuba_diving)
  - shop=fish (use shop=seafood, shop=pet, shop=angling or amenity=fast_food)
  - shop=gambling (use shop=lottery, shop=bookmaker, or
leisure=adult_gaming_centre)
  - shop=insurance (use office=insurance)
  - shop=pharmacy (use office=pharmacy)
  - shop=bags (use shop=bag)
* Various other bug fixes and minor improvements.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.35.0...v2.36.0

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.36.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 30 October 2015 at 22:01, Matthijs Melissen <i...@matthijsmelissen.nl> wrote:
>   - shop=pharmacy (use office=pharmacy)

This should be amenity=pharmacy instead of office=pharmacy, of course.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map key

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 17 October 2015 at 10:45, Lester Caine  wrote:
> On 17/10/15 09:03, nebulon42 wrote:
>> I don't know an ETA of this change on the tile servers yet as it is a
>> quite major change. Others may be able to comment on that.
>
> Is this ACTUALLY a 'done deal'? I though there was a going to be at
> least some option to ask if there was a more general agreement for the
> change.

The code is ready for release at the moment. We're just holding back
for a moment to allow the maintainers of iD and the map key to
synchronise.

Of course nothing in the free/open software world is ever a 'done
deal' in the sense that no further changes are possible. The
stylesheet is an ongoing project, so we allow, and in fact we expect,
that there will be further changes to the road colours after we roll
out the current version. At the moment, also taking the comments we
received from the community into account, we find that the changes are
a sufficient improvement to roll out the new colour scheme.

> But I have no doubt other sources will become live if the change goes
> ahead with their own style of map key ...

Yes, as I mentioned before, I agree it'd be useful if the UK community
would come up with their own rendering scheme (or perhaps keep the
current scheme) for people used to the UK colour style, just like
there are regional styles for the French and German colour schemes.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Proposed mechanical edit: surface=soil to surface=dirt

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 31 August 2015 at 11:00, Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:
> See
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny/surface%3Dsoil_to_surface%3Ddirt
>
> I plan to change surface=soil to surface=dirt. surface=soil is a clear
> duplicate of surface=dirt. It is also less popular and undocumented on
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface . surface=soil usage is
> slowly increasing and recently passed threshold of 400 entries
> worldwide. It would be a good idea to retag it to already documented
> tag before this duplicate gets more popular.

Totally agree, I support this edit.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.35.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.35.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers. It might
still take a couple of days before all tiles show the new rendering.

Changes include:

* Add new icon for ford
* Stop rendering of landuse=conservation
* Restore rendering of
amenity=kindergarten/school/college/university/grave_yard names
* Various other bug fixes.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.34.0...v2.35.0.

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.35.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 16 September 2015 at 23:30, Tom Hughes <t...@compton.nu> wrote:
> On 16/09/15 21:59, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
>
>> Today, v2.35.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
>> released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers. It might
>> still take a couple of days before all tiles show the new rendering.
>
>
> No, it has not been rolled out (yet).

Thanks for the correction, I didn't look well... No hurry...

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Re: [OSM-talk] recent changes in rendering the map make it worse

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi Henk,

On 22 September 2015 at 12:43, henk van der laan  wrote:
> Over the past couple of month some big changes in the rendering of the
> map have been made.
> These changes do not improve the readabillity of the map, and despite
> it's good intentions do not seem to take into account the basics of map
> rendering, but rather look at tagging and decide on that.

To aid the discussion, here you can compare the old and new rendering
(Netherlands/Belgium/Luxembourg only):
http://bl.ocks.org/tyrasd/raw/67a00dbb869456094373/#9.00/52.3535/5.0572

What mobile device are you using? We received this complaint more
often, but I don't seem to have the same problems on my own device.

> - the map lost it's contrast and colour-opposition. The total map is
> dimmed, and looks flat. This is not an improvement: with the current
> generation of mobile screens it is nearly impossible to read the map in
> bright conditions, let alone in direct sunlight.

Could you be a bit more specific about which objects and zoomlevels
you are referring to?

> - several highway-types have gotten a smaller line-width, up to a point
> where the lines are impossible to see even on a high resolution screen.
> In particular footway/path/cycleway are lost.

This was done (only on low zoomlevels) to prevent clutter of footways
in dense areas, which also caused serious readability problems. See
for example Vondelpark on zoom level 13. We realise it makes it harder
to read footways in less dense areas on zoom levels 13 and 14 (and
only on these), but that's a trade-off we had to make.

> - The combining of footway/path ( apart from beeing wrong to start with )
> led to little red dots. These do not stand out , especially against some
> landuse colours. And again: especially on mobile device in bright
> light they are invisible.

Are there any specific landuse areas where the problem is most severe?

> - dimmed colours seem to make the difference between highways less
> visible: secundary, tertiary and unclassified do not stand out as
> different as they used to.

I agree. We are rolling out a chance soon that will make the highways
much brighter.

> Apart from this the underlying thoughts for the changes are a point of
> concern: reading through the different threads I detect an alarming
> trend to favor roads for motorized traffic over pedestrians/cyclist etc.

This is certainly not a deliberate choice by the team that maintains
the style. Interesting enough, I don't think any of the people who
have been working on the changes you mention even own a car...

> I even read one comment that suggests to get rid of bridleways in
> rendering because there are no bridleways in his aerea ...
> Others doubt the use of different colours for cycleways, because they
> do not form a special roadtype ..  only a legal distinction.
> Following the last thought there would not be any reason to have a
> distinction between primary/secundary/trunk etc. either.

Everyone is free to comment whatever they like, of course... I don't
think any of these arguments were considered as serious reasons to
change the style by the style maintainers.

> Imo OSM is a general map, that is: no particular feature should be left
> out or favored over another. I'm not really interested in powerlines,
> but do not oppose rendering them on the map.

The problem is that we're at a point where we have so many features,
that we need to make choices. For ex
Also, we simply have so many different features now, that we have no
longer enough colours to render them all...

> So the conclusions:
> - Currently the new rendering favors motorized traffic over others.
> If the goal of OSM is to become a road-map like Google that would mean
> the loss of thousands of mappers who use OSM as the only complete map.

No, that's not the goal of OSM or the default rendering.

> - Colourscheme does not adhere to even the basic cartographic rules.

Could you expand on that?

> - Readabillity is rapidly becoming worse. In the past I directed many
> to OSM, praising it's very complete and readable map over Google/Bing.
> That is no longer true.

You're always free to help us improving the style sheet at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto

> - The new rendering omits the hard work of many contributers who
> walked/cycled miles to give OSM more than just highways.

The stylesheet maintainers are amongst this group, so that's not
really fair criticism.

> I vote to re-enstate the old rendering, honouring the work of many and
> getting a readable map that is supports all users and contributers.

We're always happy to consider improvements to the map, but simply
reverting changes is not the way to go in this case, as that would
also reintroduce the problems solved by these changes in the first
place.

> I wonder how many users would back me up on this.

OSM is not a democracy. :) In particular, concrete proposals on how to
do something are more likely to be considered than 

[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.37.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.37.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers. It might
still take a couple of days before all tiles show the new rendering.

Changes include:

* Improved admin boundaries and labels on low zoom levels
* New farmland colour, making farmland less prominent
* New icons for shop=copyshop and shop=beverages
* Some refinements to the road rendering, based on the feedback we
received on this topic. In particular, roads are now rendered slightly
narrower on z13, z18 and z19.
* Various other bug fixes and minor improvements.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.35.0...v2.36.0

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.40.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.40.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet (the default
stylesheet on openstreetmap.org) has been released and rolled out to
the openstreetmap.org servers. It might take a couple of days before
all tiles show the new rendering.

Changes include:

* More consistent size of icon labels (bigger labels in most cases).
* Changed rendering of power lines on low zoom levels.
* Changed rendering of turning circles.
* Changed icon for libraries and book shops.
* Larger labels for place names.
* Various bug fixes.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.39.0...v2.40.0

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Applicability of wiki tagging and votes: may, should or must

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 28 January 2016 at 20:16, David Marchal  wrote:
> On a GitHub issue
> (https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2027#issuecomment-174443685),
> I've been told that Wiki tagging votes are only advisory and that the
> community is only invited, neither required nor recommended, to follow them.
> As I understand this comment, the community MAY follow the Wiki tagging or
> votes, it does not SHOULD nor MUST follow them. I was under the impression
> that the community at least SHOULD apply the votes results, MUST looking
> unenforceable due to the free tagging principle. Am I wrong on that? What is
> the applicability of the Wiki content?

I don't think this has ever been formally decided.

Personally I am of the opinion that the editor software, and to a
lesser extent the main data consumer software such as
openstreetmap-carto, has way to much power over tagging standards. I
would be in favour of giving more power to the community, and I think
editor/data consumer software should be encouraged to follow the
standards agreed by the community.

Often the counterargument is given that only a handful of people vote
on proposals, but I don't think that's a good argument. Everybody
*can* join in the discussion and the votes if they want to. Apparently
the people who don't are not interested, or perhaps they trust the
regular crowd to make decisions for them. Having the power only in the
hands of the few people that control the major editors and renderers
is no good idea, in my opinion. I therefore think that we as a
community should ask that everybody involved SHOULD follow the voting
results.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Applicability of wiki tagging and votes: may, should or must

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 29 January 2016 at 17:37, Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:
> "but that's not much to do with tagging diversity" - I would dispute
> it, from my personal experience. Tagging diversity IS one of real
> problems in using OSM data.

+1.

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.38.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Yesterday, v2.38.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers. It might
still take a couple of days before all tiles show the new rendering.

Changes include:

* Add rendering for natural=shoal, and natural=reef.
* Change of rendering of linear barriers: keep rendering of barrier
types chain, city_wall, embankment, ditch, fence, guard_rail,
handrail, hedge, kerb, retaining_wall, and wall, and drop rendering of
all other barrier types.
* Add rendering for social facilities.
* New icon for sports shops.
* Changed rendering of cutlines.
* Changed rendering for beach surfaces: add rendering for
surface=fine_gravel, surface=pebbles, and surface=pebblestone; drop
rendering for surface=peeples
* Various other bug fixes and minor improvements.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.37.0...v2.38.0

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Go Map!: Mobile mapping on iOS

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi all,

I always used to be quite sceptical about mobile mapping applications.
Due to the small screen size and lack of a mouse pointer, mobile
mapping seemed clumsy and error-prone. For me, collecting data in the
field and then adding it on a personal computer with JOSM was the way
to go.

However, my mind has changed completely since I discovered Go Map!, an
application for iOS written by Bryce Cogswell. Nowadays, I'm doing
almost all my mapping in the field straight in Go Map!, and only
rarely do I still resort to JOSM.

Go Map! is designed with a light-weight UI, making mapping easy and
intuitive. In particular, a lot of attention was paid to minimize the
chance of user errors. Some examples:
- Objects are moved by dragging a handle next to the object, rather
than the object itself. This way, you're not obscuring the placement
of the object.
- When drawing a new line, a subtle animation is shown whenever you're
about to connect a node to another node or line.
- The application does not permit the manipulation (such as
straightening) of objects (partially) outside of the view.

I found that entering the results of my surveys straight in Go Map!
saves me a lot of time, and additionally improves the quality of my
data (since one data manipulation step is cut out, and I can verify
results immediately).

Of course, even with Go Map!, accidental data errors might be
possible. And repetitive actions, or manipulation of large areas with
many notes, is perhaps still easier on a desktop computer. But
overall, I find Go Map! a large improvement.

And an additional bonus: whenever passers-by ask you when this map
you're creating can be viewed online, you now can tell them: "in about
two minutes".

I'd recommend every iOS user to give the application at least a try.

The application can be downloaded here:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/go-map!!/id592990211?mt=8

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Go Map!: Mobile mapping on iOS

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 26 July 2016 at 01:51, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> I can't speak to the qualities of Go Map! but I think your review should
> also mention the fact that this is proprietary software - it doesn't
> cost anything but you can't look at the source. In that, it is different
> from almost every other OSM editor widely used.

Good point, thank you for the addition.

There doesn't seem to be a (future) business model behind it. I wonder
if this keeping the source closed was a deliberate choice of the
author?

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v2.42.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.42.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet (the default
stylesheet on openstreetmap.org) has been released.

Changes include:
* Add rendering of amenity=charging_station and tourism=artwork
* Change icon of shop=department_store
* Increase font size for various labels
* Change playground color
* Various bug fixes

Thanks to all the contributors for this release, including David
Gianforte, a new contributor.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.41.0...v2.42.0

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

Kind regards,
Matthijs Melissen

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Re: [OSM-talk] Viewing pre-redaction OSM tiles?

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 14 July 2016 at 21:16, Pierre Béland  wrote:
> Michal, you might have seen my OSMCompare slider map where I use the FOSM
> layer for comparison.
>
> http://pierzen.dev.openstreetmap.org/hot/leaflet/OSM-Compare-before-after.html#10/27.9083/85.5286

Nice work, inspired on this I just created an alternative view of these maps:
http://bl.ocks.org/math1985/raw/328d6a95a431996813ece839aaf9ff7b/

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 11 July 2016 at 01:08, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> The automated edits code of conduct is there for a reason; had user
> Test360 complied with it, then his edit would likely not have been
> faulty

My main issue with the AEcoc is that it is nearly impossible to comply
with, especially the part that says that community consensus is
necessary (or rather, "said", because this requirement seems to have
been silently removed).

Could you point me to a single worldwide mechanical edit that
satisfies the AEcoc guidelines?

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 10 July 2016 at 23:26, Éric Gillet  wrote:
> What are your thoughts ?

I fully agree with all your points. I think a wider community
discussion on the current guidelines is necessary.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Notes pollutie

[Matthijs Melissen]

2017-02-18 15:33 GMT+01:00 Philippe Casteleyn :
> Iedereen spreekt altijd over lokale kennis, maar verkiest toch
buitenlandse
> inmenging.

Een kleine opheldering, met 'lokale kennis' wordt bedoeld kennis van iemand
die ter plaatse is geweest om te kijken hoe de situatie er aldaar uit ziet
(in tegenstelling tot bijvoorbeeld imports of intekenen van Bing-beelden).
De woonplaats van de mapper staat hier geheel los van.

-- Matthijs
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Notes pollutie in Brussel

[Matthijs Melissen]

Beste Philippe,

Allereerst zou ik je willen vragen je toon aan te passen. Je komt erg
onbeleefd en agressief over, dat lijkt me niet nuttig voor een
productieve discussie. Ik snap ook niet niet wat mijn woonplaats met
de rest van de discussie te maken heeft; die is in elk geval zeker
niet geheim, je bent altijd welkom in Den Haag om samen te mappen.

Ik heb tijdens SOTM inderdaad een groot aantal POI in Brussel
toegevoegd. In totaal heb ik meer dan 500 winkels en
horecagelegenheden ingetekend. Hierdoor is het winkel- en horecaaanbod
in de Brusselse binnenstad nu (vrijwel) volledig in kaart gebracht.
Het is trouwens bizar om te zien hoeveel toeristische chocoladewinkels
er in Brussel zijn!

Een klein aantal stukken (<10%) heb ik niet kunnen doen, ofwel omdat
ik niet genoeg tijd had, ofwel omdat ik ter plekke niet meteen kon
zien of een winkel nog steeds bestond. Ik weet uit ervaring dat als er
90% van een stad gemapt is het heel lastig te zien is wat er nog moet
gebeuren. Daarom heb ik voor de paar stukjes waar ik niet aan toe
gekomen notes aangemaakt zodat het voor de locale community in elk
geval duidelijk is wat er wel en niet gedaan is.

Het is overigens niet waar dat er al 5 maanden niemand naar deze notes
heeft gekeken: een aantal hiervan zijn al opgelost, onder andere door
gebruiker bxl-forever. Gesloten notes zijn echter maar 2 weken
zichtbaar, dus het aantal notes dat wel opgelost is niet meteen in te
zien. Ik ga er van uit dat de notes die nog open staan in de loop der
tijd ook gewoon opgelost worden (misschien zelfs wel door mij zelf,
mocht ik weer eens een keer in Brussel zijn).

Ik hoop dat ik hiermee voldoende toelichting heb kunnen geven.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Notes pollutie in Brussel

[Matthijs Melissen]

2017-02-13 13:49 GMT+01:00 joost schouppe :
> Ik had bij de laatste meetup in Brussel bij drie van die Notes info
> toegevoegd om ze te kunnen sluiten.

Sorry, die waren er tussendoor geglipt, dat doe ik normaal inderdaad
wel. Ik heb ze nu alsnog verwerkt.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Analysis of usage of similar tags over time

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi all,

Recently, a new tool was created by Martin Raifer (@tyrasd) to
generate graphs of the usage of tags over time. This is a great tool
that gives us more insight in what drives the choice of tags by
mappers. The tool can be found at http://taghistory.raifer.tech/.

I wrote an OSM diary to discuss some results:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Math1985/diary/39404#comment35887

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi,

We have currently a Map Features page on the wiki:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features

The page also contains definitions for all features. We therefore
store the definitions now in two places: in the map features tables
and in the infoboxes on the pages themselves.

Duplication of definitions seems not ideal to me. Even though a lot of
people try to update this, there are still quite a lot differences
between the definitions on the map feature pages and the definitions
in the infoboxes.

Do we want to keep the Map Features page? If yes, do we have technical
means to keep the definitions synchronised? Could we perhaps generate
it from Taginfo, or somehow include the definition from the Infobox on
the Map Features page?

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 1 September 2016 at 09:01, Jochen Topf  wrote:
> And feel free to tell me if you need anything more or different. What it
> does at the moment is what I thought might be useful and doable. That
> doesn't mean this is the best solution.

As a firs step, I included the list here on the Geological map features page:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Geological
it seems to work well there.

The only thing not working are the image links, which are currently broken.

On a bit longer term, would it be an idea to add a field for
'rendering' (in the default stylesheet) to the infobox, and include it
on taginfo? I know the 'default' stylesheet is just one of the
stylesheets, and therefore the choice a bit arbitrary, but if the list
has icons, like on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shop, it does
make it easier to browse through for me.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On Thursday, 1 September 2016, Jochen Topf <joc...@remote.org> wrote:

> On Do, Sep 01, 2016 at 12:42:10 +0200, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
> > We have currently a Map Features page on the wiki:
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features
> >
> > The page also contains definitions for all features. We therefore
> > store the definitions now in two places: in the map features tables
> > and in the infoboxes on the pages themselves.
> >
>
> See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Taginfo/Taglists . This "just"
> needs some people going through every tag list in the wiki and replacing
> it by the special syntax. The problem ist, as you say, the differing
> descriptions and such, which need to be consolidated in the process.


Great, that's exactly what I needed. Will see what we can do with that.

-- Matthijs
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Re: [OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 1 September 2016 at 10:01, Matthijs Melissen
<i...@matthijsmelissen.nl> wrote:
> As a firs step, I included the list here on the Geological map features page:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Geological
> it seems to work well there.

As there are some problems with the translations of the pages, this
has now been reverted.

However, a demo can be found here:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Math1985/Test

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 1 September 2016 at 15:05, Jochen Topf  wrote:
> What are the problems with translations?

I didn't realise the non-English Map Features templates include the
English Map Features template. Nothing we can't fix, but simply
putting TagLists in the English Template:Map_Features:XXX pages won't
work and will break the non-English pages.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing lists archive not in Google

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 31 August 2016 at 18:32, Andy Townsend  wrote:
> Maybe I'm missing something, but a web search of e.g. "something
> site:https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/; finds relevant posts?
> Is there something I'm not understanding here?

You're right, something must have gone wrong on my side.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Mailing lists archive not in Google

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi,

The mailing list archives at
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/ are currently not indexed
by Google. I suppose this is caused by the  tag that is included in every page of the
archive.

Would it be possible to remove this tag? I think it would be very
useful if the mailing list archives were searchable.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 21 September 2016 at 09:53, François Lacombe
 wrote:
> You deal with pages like Template:Map_Features/XXX but power template is
> currently known as Template:Map_Features:power
> Have we to rename the template to Template:Map_Features/Power ?

Yes, for the moment it is necessary to create a new page under a
different name. If you move over the current template to TagList,
non-English language wiki pages will break.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 21 September 2016 at 09:25, Jochen Topf <joc...@remote.org> wrote:
> On Mi, Sep 21, 2016 at 01:33:28 +0200, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
>> On 1 September 2016 at 15:04, Jochen Topf <joc...@remote.org> wrote:
>> > So, if somebody adds the rendering to the infobox (and tells me about it),
>> > I'll pull that data from taginfo and can put it in the taglist tables.
>>
>> I added it to the infobox as osmcarto-rendering.
>
> Just looked at this and it isn't the greatest format for parsing by
> taginfo due to the wiki-specific syntax:
>
> osmcarto-rendering=[[File:Supermarket-14.svg|14px]]
>
> Could we make it like the "image" attribute instead, just the name of
> the image file?
>
> image=Image:Sainsbury'sGlos.jpg
>
> Or a real URL?

Sure, I fixed this now.

> The size shouldn't be something you have to supply with it, the user
> should decide on the size, using whatever size fits into whatever the
> user is doing.

In this case I think the size is actually valuable data. It would be
nice if the wiki could display the icons real size. For example, shop
icons should be displayed small, while pieces of landuse rendering
should be displayed bigger. I therefore added an extra field to the
InfoBox, specifying the rendering size in openstreetmap-carto. Feel
free to either user this field or ignore it in your application.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 1 September 2016 at 15:04, Jochen Topf  wrote:
> So, if somebody adds the rendering to the infobox (and tells me about it),
> I'll pull that data from taginfo and can put it in the taglist tables.

I added it to the infobox as osmcarto-rendering.

It is currently only used in the supermarket page:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dsupermarket

I could use some help of others to add the entry to other pages too.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 1 September 2016 at 10:01, Matthijs Melissen
<i...@matthijsmelissen.nl> wrote:
> As a firs step, I included the list here on the Geological map features page:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Geological
> it seems to work well there.

We now have TagList templates for the following keys:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/natural
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/geological
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/man_made
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/emergency
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/office

I could use some help with creating TagList templates for the other
keys. Is anybody interested?

Creating the template page itself is easy. Just create a page name
Template:Map_Features/XXX where XXX is the key; have a look at one of
the existing pages for more information.

Now we need to check if the TagList is correct and complete. To do so,
check if all entries on the old map features page have an entry on the
TagList page (this should be the case if they have wiki entries).
Also, check if the definition and photo on the new page is not worse
than the definition on the old page.

(Note: by convention, definitions typically start with 'a' or 'an',
and avoid repeating the name of the object itself. For example for
natural=wetland, do not use "the wetland tag is used for natural areas
subject to inundation or with waterlogged ground" but "a natural area
subject to inundation or with waterlogged ground".)

It would be great if other people would be interested in working on
this as well.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Taglists support for rendering examples

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 6 November 2016 at 12:52, Jochen Topf  wrote:
> I have now added support to taginfo for showing an example rendering in
> the taglists on the wiki.

Thanks, that's great!

> Note that the "osmcarto-rendering-size" setting in the infobox is not used.
> That setting is really not neccesary if the icons have been written in
> the right way.

I didn't know about that, as far as I'm concerned we should fix these
at source (but I can imagine nebulon42 sees problems of which I'm not
aware).

> (And yes, it would make sense if we didn't have to copy the images into
> the wiki, but there are more issues with that. I am trying to do the
> next step here, not change everything in one go.)

Yes, I agree going in small steps is the best way to go. I haven't had
any time to work on a solution that doesn't require copying.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Taglists support for rendering examples

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 6 November 2016 at 12:52, Jochen Topf  wrote:
> I have now added support to taginfo for showing an example rendering in
> the taglists on the wiki.

I enabled this functionality now on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/man_made .

We now have TagList templates for the following keys.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/natural
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/geological
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/man_made
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/emergency
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/office

I could use some help with creating TagList templates for the other
keys. Is anybody interested?

To repeat my message of last time:
| Creating the template page itself is easy. Just create a page name
| Template:Map_Features/XXX where XXX is the key; have a look at one of
| the existing pages for more information.
|
| Now we need to check if the TagList is correct and complete. To do so,
| check if all entries on the old map features page have an entry on the
| TagList page (this should be the case if they have wiki entries).
| Also, check if the definition and photo on the new page is not worse
| than the definition on the old page.
|
| (Note: by convention, definitions typically start with 'a' or 'an',
| and avoid repeating the name of the object itself. For example for
natural=wetland, do not use "the wetland tag is used for natural areas
| subject to inundation or with waterlogged ground" but "a natural area
| subject to inundation or with waterlogged ground".)

The other thing that needs to be done is fixing the svg width/height
parameters in the svg's in openstreetmap-carto (see the other messages
in this thread).

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Taglists support for rendering examples

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 14 November 2016 at 02:22, Matthijs Melissen
<i...@matthijsmelissen.nl> wrote:
> I have now added support to taginfo for showing an example rendering in
> the taglists on the wiki.

I have included some TagList templates now on the main Map Features
page, as well on the individual pages.

See for example:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:man_made
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:craft

The templates that have been converted so far are craft, man_made,
natural, office, geological, and emergency. Help is still appreciated
with converting the other templates.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mozambique's living streets

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 11 December 2016 at 01:15, Jean-Marc Liotier  wrote:
> But participants
> in the thread were mostly experienced with French-speaking Africa - so I
> cannot rule out the existence of a living street legal classification in
> other locales.

At least South Africa seems to have legal living_streets:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_signs_in_South_Africa#/media/File:SADC_road_sign_R403.svg

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Draft Trademark Policy

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 3 August 2017 at 23:07, Simon Poole  wrote:
> The LWG would like to start a period of public review and consultation on
> our draft trademark policy, that we intend to bring forward to the OSMF
> board for adoption as a formal policy, please see the text here:

The proposed policy would discourage people from using 'OpenStreetMap'
in their project names. To be honest, I don't think this policy is
going the right way.

This policy seems to protect against applications using OpenStreetMap
in the name without using OpenStreetMap data. I don't think that's a
serious problem, while the opposite 'problem' occurs quite often:
projects using OpenStreetMap data without making it clear that they
are doing so (except in some small attribution).

For example, I would much rather have that people would call their app
'OpenStreetMap.me' rather than 'Maps.me'. This policy seems to
discourage that.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v3.3.1

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v3.3.1 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet (the default
stylesheet on openstreetmap.org) has been released.

This version includes a single change:
* Fix a regression in intermittent waterways

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v3.3.0...v3.3.1

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Old-style multipolygon cleanup is done!

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 4 May 2017 at 16:30, Jochen Topf  wrote:
> The old-style multipolygon relations are history! In not even two months
> the OSM community cleaned up all of the nearly a quarter million
> relations. You can see the it here:
> http://area.jochentopf.com/stats/#old_style_multipolygons

Thanks for the great work to Jochen and everyone else involved! On the
data consumption site, this will make things significantly easier.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Label language on the Default stylesheet

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi all,

I would like to ask for your opinion on the choice of language used in
the Default map on openstreetmap.org.

This map (based on the openstreetmap-carto style) currently displays
all labels in their native language (as defined in the 'name' tag).
For example, we have a label 北京市 for Beijing, a label موريتانيا for
Mauritania, and a label Magyarország for Hungary.

The openstreetmap-carto team quite frequently receives requests to
(additionally) display labels in English (or in any case the
Latin-alphabet). The people making these requests state that the map
is currently not very usable for an international audience, as many
people are not able to read labels in for example Arabic or Mandarin.
Some areas where this problem is particularly visible:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/803#issuecomment-330782700
A prominent case of such a request is from the Gnome Maps team, who
decided not to use the Default style for this reason:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=764841#c35

From an ideologic viewpoint, I am very much in favour of not giving
preferential treatment to any particular language. Using the local
language seems fair in this respect. On the other hand, from a
pragmatic point of view I can also see that using English (in
addition) would significantly increase the usefulness of the map to
many people.

I would be interested to know what others think about this. An option,
for example, would be to display countries names, and perhaps the
names of big cities, in English as well as in the local language.

Note: making the map available in multiple language versions is
something we like to do in the future, however, this requires quite
significant technical changes. Therefore, this is out of scope for
now.

More information on this issue can be found on Github:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/803

I'm looking forward to your opinions.

Kind regards,
Matthijs Melissen

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