On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Casey Dahlin wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 08:01:54AM -0400, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
>> And the main lesson her is "don't clutter the user interface with
>> useless graphical eye candy". It makes the boot process require
>> unnecessary system resources. The ne
I think this thread has run it's course...
lets stop here, and those folks with concrete changes or proposals can
work on those. I don't think we are adding much new to the debate at
this point.
kevin
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On 14/03/13 01:52 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 14.03.2013 21:50, schrieb Lennart Poettering:
Well, then update your hardware
That effectively means that *virtually all* laptops from 2013 on will
POST in ridiculously short times.
Really, just go to your computer store, and look for any laptop
Am 14.03.2013 21:50, schrieb Lennart Poettering:
> Well, then update your hardware
>
> That effectively means that *virtually all* laptops from 2013 on will
> POST in ridiculously short times.
>
> Really, just go to your computer store, and look for any laptop that is
> designed for Windows 8
WO
Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> Well, then update your hardware. As mentioned before, the Windows 8
> certification requires POST of < 2s on SSD, and < 4s on rotating media.
Well, no. My hardware works just fine; I intend to use it for years to
come. I really don't care about Windo
On Wed, 13.03.13 15:14, Chris Adams (cmad...@hiwaay.net) wrote:
> Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett said:
> > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 02:52:23PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> > > That doesn't seem all that significant to me; I guess we have different
> > > measures (to me "significantly slow down t
On 14/03/13 10:51 AM, Björn Persson wrote:
Przemek Klosowski wrote:
On 03/11/2013 05:03 PM, Björn Persson wrote:
Your TV (which likely has embedded Linux)? Your car?
Windows? OS X?
I don't have any of those, and I doubt I'll ever buy a car when I want
a general-purpose computer.
How do you
Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> On 03/11/2013 05:03 PM, Björn Persson wrote:
>
> >> Your TV (which likely has embedded Linux)? Your car?
> >> Windows? OS X?
> >
> > I don't have any of those, and I doubt I'll ever buy a car when I want
> > a general-purpose computer.
>
> How do you know you don't
On 03/11/2013 05:03 PM, Björn Persson wrote:
Your TV (which likely has embedded Linux)? Your car?
Windows? OS X?
I don't have any of those, and I doubt I'll ever buy a car when I want
a general-purpose computer.
How do you know you don't have them? They don't show anything at boot,
and run
Hi,
On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 6:30 AM, Björn Persson
wrote:
> How about turning the messages that Plymouth needs to display into
> pictures? There would be a set of pre-rendered image files with
> translations of the phrase "Press Esc if you want to see what's going
> on." for all the different loc
On Wed, 2013-03-13 at 18:05 +0100, Jan Dvořák wrote:
> * Holding key on BIOS machines usually results in a long beep
> sound and keyboard lockup. I never understood why.
AIUI, key repetition and a very short buffer holding only a low number
(16 I believe) of unprocessed key events. When the
On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 12:12:54PM +0100, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
> +1
-1
Or in other words: This is not Google+, please don't quote entire
emails. I do remember the AOL time. An argument can stand on itself
without a popularity vote.
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On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 03:37:23AM -0700, Dan Mashal wrote:
> When I think of improving the booting experience tonight, I think of a
> booter that can't repair itself when it's broken not Plymouth...can we
> fix real broken things before we fix an annoying thing like plymouth?
Of course we can. T
On Thu, 2013-03-14 at 11:52 +0100, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
> Intentionally dumbing down the system so that even idiots can use it
> will result in *only* idiots using it.
You should tone down your comments a little. Denigrating people who
don't share knowledge about computers at a level similar to y
On Thu, 2013-03-14 at 09:09 -0400, Steve Clark wrote:
> On 03/14/2013 07:06 AM, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
>
> > On 03/11/2013 10:48 PM, Björn Persson wrote:
> > > Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > > (And on EFI systems that do not initialize USB anymore during POST, you
> > > > have to go through the OS
On 03/14/2013 07:06 AM, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
On 03/11/2013 10:48 PM, Björn Persson wrote:
Lennart Poettering wrote:
(And on EFI systems that do not initialize USB anymore during POST, you
have to go through the OS to get into the boot loader anyway...)
That's going to be real fun when the OS
On 03/14/2013 06:52 AM, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
On 03/11/2013 08:49 PM, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
On 03/11/2013 02:41 PM, Björn Persson wrote:
Yes, why not display the Grub menu?
Because it's the year 2013. Not 1999.
Whether any text is displayed or not, there still needs to be a long
enough
On 03/12/2013 02:33 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Tue, 12.03.13 09:13, Steve Clark (scl...@netwolves.com) wrote:
>
>> How many times do you boot your system each day? 10? Okay thats a
>> whole 20 additional seconds.
>
> This is way up on my list of most non-sensical arguments about building
Why is it so imtimidating / confusing to "noobs"?
Dan
On Wednesday, March 13, 2013, deep64blue wrote:
> On Wed Mar 13 00:32:09 UTC 2013 Máirín Duffy wrote:
>
> "Displaying information geared towards power users by default is
> intimidating / confusing to less-knowledgeable users."
>
> Surely if
On 03/12/2013 01:07 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Lennart Poettering
> wrote:
>> On Mon, 11.03.13 13:08, Chris Murphy (li...@colorremedies.com) wrote:
>>
>>> On Mar 11, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Björn Persson
>>> wrote:
Or nothing at all displayed unless the user
On 03/11/2013 10:48 PM, Björn Persson wrote:
> Lennart Poettering wrote:
>> (And on EFI systems that do not initialize USB anymore during POST, you
>> have to go through the OS to get into the boot loader anyway...)
>
> That's going to be real fun when the OS fails to boot, and I can't fix
> the b
On 03/11/2013 10:30 PM, Björn Persson wrote:
> Lennart Poettering wrote:
>> On Mon, 11.03.13 21:20, Björn Persson (bjorn@rombobjörn.se) wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Robinson wrote:
It use to only be displayed if there was more than one OS configured
or if the CTRL was held down. Having to press a
On 03/11/2013 09:50 PM, Björn Persson wrote:
> Chris Murphy wrote:
>> A multiboot system needs at least a message to inform the user how to get to
>> the boot manager (the GRUB menu). A Fedora only system probably should
>> entirely suppress the menu or notice how to get to it.
>
> What if I nee
On 03/11/2013 09:45 PM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> Le Lun 11 mars 2013 21:16, Lennart Poettering a écrit :
>> On Mon, 11.03.13 13:08, Chris Murphy (li...@colorremedies.com) wrote:
>>
>>> On Mar 11, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Björn Persson
>>> wrote:
Or nothing at all displayed unless the user happens t
On 03/11/2013 09:20 PM, seth vidal wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 21:07:32 +0100
> Lennart Poettering wrote:
>>
>> I don't think we should generate any message. Nothing at all. My BIOS
>> doesn't print a single line, and neither does the kernel if "quiet" is
>> used (which is the default). I really
On 03/11/2013 08:49 PM, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> On 03/11/2013 02:41 PM, Björn Persson wrote:
>> Yes, why not display the Grub menu?
>
> Because it's the year 2013. Not 1999.
>
>> Whether any text is displayed or not, there still needs to be a long
>> enough pause that the user has time to pr
On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 3:30 AM, Björn Persson
wrote:
> Ray Strode wrote:
>> We start plymouth in the initrd, and we
>> don't have fonts, translations, font rendering libraries or anything
>> in the initrd. we could ship those things in the initrd but it would
>> make the initrd substantially lar
Ray Strode wrote:
> We start plymouth in the initrd, and we
> don't have fonts, translations, font rendering libraries or anything
> in the initrd. we could ship those things in the initrd but it would
> make the initrd substantially larger.
How about turning the messages that Plymouth needs to d
On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 12:20:21AM -0400, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> It's unfortunately demoware. While the LinuxBIOS project has optimized
> BIOS on a few systrems, server grade hardware can take up to five
> minutes simply to get past all the Power-On-Self-Test operations. And
> just because the
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Olav Vitters wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 03:14:01PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
>> I haven't seen systems that boot in less than 6 seconds (and by "boot" I
>> mean power-on to login prompt). Maybe they exist, but that is not my
>> experience with common hardwar
On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:56 PM, Mike Pinkerton wrote:
>
> On 13 Mar 2013, at 14:51, Chris Murphy wrote:
>
>>>
>>> By the way, in this brave new fast boot world, how is one expected to get
>>> to the BIOS or firmware set-up programs?
>>
>> Firmware specific. F1 and F2 are very common. HP and so
On 13 Mar 2013, at 14:51, Chris Murphy wrote:
By the way, in this brave new fast boot world, how is one expected
to get to the BIOS or firmware set-up programs?
Firmware specific. F1 and F2 are very common. HP and some Toshibas
are Esc.
My question was more timing than keystroke -- wh
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 03:14:01PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> I haven't seen systems that boot in less than 6 seconds (and by "boot" I
> mean power-on to login prompt). Maybe they exist, but that is not my
> experience with common hardware.
At FOSDEM they demonstrated 2 seconds for kernel + user
On 2013-03-13 12:51 (GMT-0600) Chris Murphy composed:
By the way, in this brave new fast boot world, how is one expected to get to
the BIOS or firmware set-up programs?
Firmware specific. F1 and F2 are very common. HP and some Toshibas are Esc.
I've found DEL to be far and away most common
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, drago01 said:
>> Seems like you are used to slow boots.
>> Watch (or even use) a system with non rotating media (i.e SSDs) that
>> does not have a ton of crap set up to be started on boot and you will
>> notice this "1 or 2 s
Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett said:
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 02:52:23PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> > That doesn't seem all that significant to me; I guess we have different
> > measures (to me "significantly slow down the boot process" would be
> > something on the order of 5-10 seconds or m
Once upon a time, drago01 said:
> Seems like you are used to slow boots.
> Watch (or even use) a system with non rotating media (i.e SSDs) that
> does not have a ton of crap set up to be started on boot and you will
> notice this "1 or 2 seconds" as significant.
My main home system has an SSD, an
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 8:52 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett said:
>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 01:28:36PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
>> > Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett said:
>> > > Worse than that, having grub check for a held key will significantly
>> > > slow down
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 02:52:23PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett said:
> > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 01:28:36PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> > > Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett said:
> > > > Worse than that, having grub check for a held key will significantly
> > >
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 02:52:23PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett said:
> > > How long is "significantly"? How hard is it to check for a keypress?
> >
> > On the order of a second or two.
>
> That doesn't seem all that significant to me; I guess we have different
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:14:05AM -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> On 03/13/2013 09:23 AM, Ian Malone wrote:
> > Then you have good students. Are teens and pre-teens fedora's main
> > target audience now? I'm really not sure what it is anymore.
>
> Is there any good reason to exclude them?
>
> I sta
Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett said:
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 01:28:36PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> > Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett said:
> > > Worse than that, having grub check for a held key will significantly
> > > slow down the boot process even if there's no key being held.
> >
>
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 01:28:36PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett said:
> > Worse than that, having grub check for a held key will significantly
> > slow down the boot process even if there's no key being held.
>
> How long is "significantly"? How hard is it to ch
On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Mike Pinkerton wrote:
>
> Let me make a case for an Apple approach. Although the reaction here was
> somewhat dismissive of the various start-up keys that Apple enables, the
> Apple approach does have three great advantages:
Those advantages come in part due to
On 03/13/2013 02:45 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
Sorry, I have not seen it "rehashed many times" in this thread, but
maybe I missed a bunch of messages. Then for consistency, treat
single-boot (with multiple kernel options) the same as dual-boot.
There's not enough gain to justify extra code to handl
Once upon a time, Rahul Sundaram said:
> On 03/13/2013 02:33 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
> >Also, dropping the boot loader menu might be okay for single-OS
> >systems (I'm not convinced, but whatever). What about dual-boot? If I
> >tell someone running Windows to try Fedora to see Linux in action,
>
On 03/13/2013 02:33 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
Also, dropping the boot loader menu might be okay for single-OS
systems (I'm not convinced, but whatever). What about dual-boot? If I
tell someone running Windows to try Fedora to see Linux in action,
they are not going to be very happy if, after insta
Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> A system with a slow boot can be used in many applications. A system
> with a fast boot can be used in all those plus many more.
>
> It's not that hard to see, is it?
Well, yeah, what are the "many more" applications made possible by a
system that sav
Once upon a time, Matthew Garrett said:
> Worse than that, having grub check for a held key will significantly
> slow down the boot process even if there's no key being held.
How long is "significantly"? How hard is it to check for a keypress?
--
Chris Adams
Systems and Network Administrator
On 13 March 2013 11:05, Chris Murphy wrote:
>
> On Mar 13, 2013, at 7:42 AM, john.flor...@dart.biz wrote:
>
>> > I do. Curious, isn't it, how I managed to stumble into linux boot
>> > loading, and file systems of all things, never having a single
>> > chance of seeing such things? They weren't mer
On Mar 13, 2013, at 9:52 AM, Máirín Duffy wrote:
>>>
> On 03/13/2013 11:26 AM, john.flor...@dart.biz wrote:
>> Because maybe your computer boots just fine but you're screens are all
>> garbled or just black.
>
> This is a really good point. In this situation I probably would have
> just gone
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 12:52:24PM -0400, Mike Pinkerton wrote:
> I recall there was some objection about BIOS buffer clearing, and
> don't know what problems that would present to this proposal. On
> the plus side, though, there wouldn't be any need for gnarly auto-
> detection of error conditio
On Tue, 12.03.13 21:50, Felix Miata (mrma...@earthlink.net) wrote:
> On 2013-03-12 14:33 (GMT+0100) Lennart Poettering composed:
>
> >Fast boot times ... increase reliability, and
>
> How?
Shorter downtimes if things go wrong? You are back again at full
redundancy if you needed the redundancy?
On Mar 13, 2013, at 7:42 AM, john.flor...@dart.biz wrote:
> > I do. Curious, isn't it, how I managed to stumble into linux boot
> > loading, and file systems of all things, never having a single
> > chance of seeing such things? They weren't merely hidden from me.
> > They didn't even exist.
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:52:24 -0400 Mike Pinkerton
wrote:
> + If a user could hold the key down from before power on until the
> boot options menu appeared, then Fedora could still do extremely fast
> booting without presenting the user with a short time interval to
> hit. If grub finds th
On 13 Mar 2013, at 10:16, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Anyway, here is a proposal for an alternative way to deal with the
boot
sequence.
There have been a number of suggestions that have taken a Windows 8
approach to this problem -- auto-detecting error conditions or
enabling one to "reboot"
On Wed 13 Mar 2013 12:19:39 PM EDT, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> This is no luck, you are using the exact class of hardware @rh dev use,
> which is pretty much the safest setup for Fedora (and it's not the least
> expensive hardware on the market either).
This is my last message to this thread.
I am
Le Mer 13 mars 2013 17:00, Máirín Duffy a écrit :
> It's been a really long time since a kernel update broke something on my
> system as well. I think the last time might have been around F14, there
> had been a kernel update that broke suspend on my Thinkpad x61. A fix
> came out shortly after.
Le Mer 13 mars 2013 16:52, Máirín Duffy a écrit :
>>> From: Máirín Duffy
>>> Why not put it in the control panel on the running system along with
>>> other system-level options, though? Doesn't that make more sense rather
>>> than separating it out for access only in a completely different
>>> co
On 03/13/2013 11:46 AM, Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote:
> This brings the question, how do you do your update?
I actually do updates via the package kit nag thing that pops up from
the messaging tray, and I rarely pay attention to the list of packages.
I just don't have the time to bother, and if that's
On 03/13/2013 11:51 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-13 17:29 (GMT+0200) Sebastian Mäki composed:
* remove the hood of the car, and keep it off in case something
goes wrong, or to entice new drivers to look in there and guess
what is going on. * keep the hood of the car on, and if something
go
On Wed, 2013-03-13 at 11:04 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> On 03/13/2013 10:57 AM, Nils Philippsen wrote:
> > I'm with you that users shouldn't see this by default, but rather e.g.
> > upon encountering an error condition (or if configured differently).
> > However, we still could use better wording
>> From: Máirín Duffy
>> Why not put it in the control panel on the running system along with
>> other system-level options, though? Doesn't that make more sense rather
>> than separating it out for access only in a completely different context?
On 03/13/2013 11:26 AM, john.flor...@dart.biz wrote
On 2013-03-13 17:29 (GMT+0200) Sebastian Mäki composed:
* remove the hood of the car, and keep it off in case something
goes wrong, or to entice new drivers to look in there and guess
what is going on. * keep the hood of the car on, and if something
goes wrong, pop it. If the driver wants to twe
On Wed, 2013-03-13 at 11:04 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> In that situation my first instinct would be to go into the control
> panel and poke around and see if there was something I could fix
> there, and maybe search online for an answer. My first instinct would
> not be to reboot the system and g
>> On 13 March 2013 12:46, Máirín Duffy wrote:
>>> No, a boot menu is not self-explanatory, and no, this is not an 'urban
>>> legend.' How do you even come up with associating the term 'urban
>>> legend' to statement saying that a complex screen is confusing to casual
>>> computer users?
On 03/13
Le Mer 13 mars 2013 15:16, Nicolas Mailhot a écrit :
>
> Anyway, here is a proposal for an alternative way to deal with the boot
> sequence.
(btw, in case it is not obvious, the solution described here is a form of
dead-man switch, which is a proven method to handle operator failures. In
the case
On 03/13/2013 02:23 PM, Ian Malone wrote:
On 13 March 2013 12:46, Máirín Duffy wrote:
On 03/13/2013 12:26 AM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
- (Nobody explicitly stated this, but) Displaying information geared
towards power users by default is intimidating / confusing to
less-knowledgeable users."
I'
> I know it is a simplification, but to me, the two sides of this
> argument are:
>
> * remove the hood of the car, and keep it off in case something
> goes wrong, or to entice new drivers to look in there and guess
> what is going on. * keep the hood of the car on, and if something
> goes wrong,
> From: Máirín Duffy
>
> Why not put it in the control panel on the running system along with
> other system-level options, though? Doesn't that make more sense rather
> than separating it out for access only in a completely different
context?
Because maybe your computer boots just fine but you
On Tue, 2013-03-12 at 23:52 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> Le Mar 12 mars 2013 19:04, Peter Jones a écrit :
>
> > Obviously we need to do a good job of making sure we tolerate failures,
> > and there are multiple ways to do this - if you reboot N times within M
> > seconds or somesuch might be a
On 13 March 2013 15:07, Vít Ondruch wrote:
> Dne 13.3.2013 14:23, Ian Malone napsal(a):
>>
>> Are teens and pre-teens fedora's main target audience now? I'm really not
>> sure what it is anymore.
>
>
> Are you suggesting that we should exclude them?
>
Yes okay, that's what I'm suggesting. It's no
On 03/13/2013 09:23 AM, Ian Malone wrote:
> Then you have good students. Are teens and pre-teens fedora's main
> target audience now? I'm really not sure what it is anymore.
Is there any good reason to exclude them?
I started using Linux (Red Hat 5.1) as a 3rd year high school student.
~m
--
d
Dne 13.3.2013 14:23, Ian Malone napsal(a):
Are teens and pre-teens fedora's main target audience now? I'm really
not sure what it is anymore.
Are you suggesting that we should exclude them?
Vít
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On 03/13/2013 10:57 AM, Nils Philippsen wrote:
> I'm with you that users shouldn't see this by default, but rather e.g.
> upon encountering an error condition (or if configured differently).
> However, we still could use better wording for such a message, even if
> we restrict ourselves to English,
Le Mer 13 mars 2013 15:48, Máirín Duffy a écrit :
> On 03/13/2013 10:43 AM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>> If you're lamenting the cryptical form of the current strings I totally
>> agree with you but I don't think there is any technical limitation that
>> prevents improving this text instead of dumpin
On Wed, 2013-03-13 at 10:48 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> On 03/13/2013 10:43 AM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> > If you're lamenting the cryptical form of the current strings I totally
> > agree with you but I don't think there is any technical limitation that
> > prevents improving this text instead of
On Wed, 2013-03-13 at 14:29 +0100, Nils Philippsen wrote:
> I don't see a glaring error with this idea. What do you
> think?
Well, I talked to a few guys in the office about it and there's one
interesting issue with part of my idea: trying to detect multi-boot
environments means that the boot load
On 03/13/2013 10:43 AM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> If you're lamenting the cryptical form of the current strings I totally
> agree with you but I don't think there is any technical limitation that
> prevents improving this text instead of dumping the baby with the bath
> water.
I'm not. I'm making a
Le Mer 13 mars 2013 15:26, Máirín Duffy a écrit :
Máirín,
> I would argue that throwing information up in people's faces 100% of the
> time when it's useless to over 95% of those people is like throwing a
> text in Japanese at a non-Japanese English speaker in the hopes that
> somehow they would
Am 13.03.2013 13:46, schrieb Máirín Duffy:
> If the general principle of 'specialized technical crap confuses people
> who don't understand it' is a mystical urban legend to you, you might
> want to try teaching a class to less-experienced computer users or
> watching usability test videos. Or ma
Hi,
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:29:34 +0100 Nils Philippsen wrote:
> Otherwise, no or a short timeout is used. I'm sure finding the best
> thresholds, length of the list etc. needs some experimenting, but
> besides that I don't see a glaring error with this idea. What do you
> think?
I like it.
Bes
> From: "Nicolas Mailhot"
>
> Anyway, here is a proposal for an alternative way to deal with the boot
> sequence.
>
> 1. the bootloader screen is no longer themed with colour backgrounds but
> is predominantly black and white. Boot is transitioning from a black
shut
> down screen so any colour
On 03/13/2013 09:28 AM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>
> Le Mer 13 mars 2013 01:32, Máirín Duffy a écrit :
>> On 03/12/2013 07:24 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
>>> I am saying this because I agree. To me the proposal (not the original
>>> but some point in the the 500 ms boot time "ideal" ) seemed ver
> From: Simo Sorce
> To: Development discussions related to Fedora
> Date: 03/13/2013 09:47
> Subject: Re: Improving the Fedora boot experience
> Sent by: devel-boun...@lists.fedoraproject.org
>
> On Wed, 2013-03-13 at 09:34 -0400, john.flor...@dart.biz wrote:
>
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:52:40PM +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> rescue system. (that's why safety jackets use flashy unfashionable colors)
So we should make the boot loader use flashy unfashionable colors because it
makes it more reliable?
Ok that's silly, but it's also silly for safety jacket
Anyway, here is a proposal for an alternative way to deal with the boot
sequence.
1. the bootloader screen is no longer themed with colour backgrounds but
is predominantly black and white. Boot is transitioning from a black shut
down screen so any colour or grey background is going to flash. (Mic
On Wed, 2013-03-13 at 09:34 -0400, john.flor...@dart.biz wrote:
> > From: Chris Murphy
> > I'm sure there were a bunch of sorry whiners
> > missing verbose text boot scrolling by their screen by default, in
> > favor of graphical boot.
>
> Or perhaps those "whiners" consider themselves respon
> From: Chris Murphy
>
> On Mar 12, 2013, at 12:19 PM, john.flor...@dart.biz wrote:
> >
> > I personally could not care less about the defaults Fedora uses.
> I've been overriding them for years. I'm just glad I was able to
> learn these things before everything became hidden.
>
> Because, na
> From: Chris Murphy
> I'm sure there were a bunch of sorry whiners
> missing verbose text boot scrolling by their screen by default, in
> favor of graphical boot.
Or perhaps those "whiners" consider themselves responsible employees by
being diligent in understanding what "normal and correct"
On Tue, 2013-03-12 at 15:47 +0100, Jan Dvořák wrote:
> As have already been mentioned before, POSTing server takes so long
> that GRUB delay is hardly noticeable. But what is worse, if you miss
> the kernel selection dialog on a server, you look at UP TO FIVE MORE
> MINUTES of waiting for the damn
Le Mer 13 mars 2013 01:32, Máirín Duffy a écrit :
> On 03/12/2013 07:24 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
>> I am saying this because I agree. To me the proposal (not the original
>> but some point in the the 500 ms boot time "ideal" ) seemed very much
>> a welded shut view. And as someone who has t
On 13 March 2013 12:46, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> On 03/13/2013 12:26 AM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
>>> - (Nobody explicitly stated this, but) Displaying information geared
>>> towards power users by default is intimidating / confusing to
>>> less-knowledgeable users."
>> I'd call this to be an urban leg
On Wed 13 Mar 2013 08:53:32 AM EDT, Reindl Harald wrote:
> i wonder how i survived to learn all this stuff which
> is so confusing - why do linux need to handhold anybody
> which does get scared from a simple menu where each trained
> monkey in doubt seletcs the first entry?
Clearly you're a geniu
On 03/13/2013 12:47 AM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> I read the blog and I was NOT talking about your blog post. Rereading
> what I wrote does show that I did not convey that clearly. What I was
> trying to refer to was that over the long winding thread others have
> pointed out that this would be
On 03/13/2013 12:26 AM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
>> - (Nobody explicitly stated this, but) Displaying information geared
>> towards power users by default is intimidating / confusing to
>> less-knowledgeable users."
> I'd call this to be an urban legend. A boot menu is self-explanatory,
> even to new
On Wed, 2013-03-13 at 10:16 +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> Am 13.03.2013 02:54, schrieb Simo Sorce:
> > On Tue, 2013-03-12 at 23:23 +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
> >>
> >> Am 12.03.2013 23:13, schrieb Simo Sorce:
> >>> On Tue, 2013-03-12 at 22:37 +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> Am 12.03.2
On 12 March 2013 22:13, Simo Sorce wrote:
> Why should the default configuration be ugly, slow, and biased toward
> handling the odd case when things break ?
>
I confess I've only been lightly skimming this entire deeply
interesting thread, on which more man hours have almost certainly now
been
On Wed Mar 13 00:32:09 UTC 2013 Máirín Duffy wrote:
"Displaying information geared towards power users by default is
intimidating / confusing to less-knowledgeable users."
Surely if our target audience / user base is those who have a
capability / interest in contributing then we shouldn't be look
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Nicolas Mailhot
wrote:
>
> Le Mar 12 mars 2013 21:53, Máirín Duffy a écrit :
>> I tried breaking this thread down into its components and summarizing
>> the discussion and points brought up thus far. I hope it helps:
>>
>> http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2013/03/12/impr
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