Re: A challenge for Craig

On 08 Oct 2013, at 20:12, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 12:34:57 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Oct 2013, at 17:59, Craig Weinberg wrote: Why isn't computationalism the consequence of quanta though? Human computationalism does. But I want the simplest conceptu

Re: AUDA and pronouns

On 08 Oct 2013, at 20:35, meekerdb wrote: On 10/8/2013 2:51 AM, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Oct 07, 2013 at 10:20:14AM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Oct 2013, at 07:36, Russell Standish wrote: ... and Bp&p as "he knows p", so the person order of the pronoun is also not relevant. Yes

Re: WSJ Article On Why Computers Make Lame Supermarket Cashiers

On 08 Oct 2013, at 22:22, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren Craig Weinberg : http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303492504579115310362925246.html *Humans 1, Robots 0* Cashiers Trump Self-Checkout Machines at the Grocery Store Computers seem to be replacing humans across many industr

Re: And the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics goes to…

On 08 Oct 2013, at 23:56, LizR wrote: http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2013/10/08/and-the-2013-nobel-prize-in-physics-goes-to/ Today the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics was awarded to François Englert (Université Libre de Bruxelles, Belgium) and Peter W. Higgs (University of Edinburgh, UK). The

Re: WSJ Article On Why Computers Make Lame Supermarket Cashiers

On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303492504579115310362925246.html > > Humans 1, Robots 0 > Cashiers Trump Self-Checkout Machines at the Grocery Store > > Computers seem to be replacing humans across many industries, and we're all

Re: WSJ Article On Why Computers Make Lame Supermarket Cashiers

The point is not that they are stupid, its that they are much stupider about aesthetic realities than quantitative measurements, which should be or *at least could be* be a clue that there is much more of a difference between mathematical theory and experienced presence than Comp can possibly c

Re: WSJ Article On Why Computers Make Lame Supermarket Cashiers

Why does the relation of aesthetic experience to computation have to be reduced to a simple question about convenience? If I don't want to be a ventriloquist's dummy does that mean I should keep quiet about Pinocchio not being a real boy? On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 4:04:41 AM UTC-4, telmo_me

Re: WSJ Article On Why Computers Make Lame Supermarket Cashiers

On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > Why does the relation of aesthetic experience to computation have to be > reduced to a simple question about convenience? If I don't want to be a > ventriloquist's dummy does that mean I should keep quiet about Pinocchio not > being a real bo

Re: A challenge for Craig

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 3:18:52 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 08 Oct 2013, at 20:12, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 12:34:57 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 08 Oct 2013, at 17:59, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> > >> >> Why isn't computationalism the

Re: WSJ Article On Why Computers Make Lame Supermarket Cashiers

Citeren Bruno Marchal : On 08 Oct 2013, at 22:22, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren Craig Weinberg : http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303492504579115310362925246.html *Humans 1, Robots 0* Cashiers Trump Self-Checkout Machines at the Grocery Store Computers seem to be replacing

Re: A challenge for Craig

On 09 Oct 2013, at 15:43, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 3:18:52 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Oct 2013, at 20:12, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 12:34:57 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Oct 2013, at 17:59, Craig Weinberg wrote: Why

Re: WSJ Article On Why Computers Make Lame Supermarket Cashiers

On 09 Oct 2013, at 14:19, Craig Weinberg wrote: The point is not that they are stupid, its that they are much stupider about aesthetic realities than quantitative measurements, which should be or *at least could be* be a clue If that were true ... But you don't really address the critic ma

Re: WSJ Article On Why Computers Make Lame Supermarket Cashiers

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 10:18:12 AM UTC-4, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: > > Citeren Bruno Marchal >: > > > > > On 08 Oct 2013, at 22:22, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: > > > >> Citeren Craig Weinberg >: > >> > >>> > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303492504579115310362925246.html

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > [your] body-copy will be in two places, [you] can feel to be in only one > place. > If the copies are really identical then "you" feel to be in only one place (insofar as spatial position has any meaning when talking about consciousness) be

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:19 PM, meekerdb wrote: > How do you explain quantum mechanical probabilities in the Many Worlds > interpretation? > Not very well, assigning probabilities is unquestionably the weakest part of the Many Worlds theory. True, Everett derived the Born Rule from his ideas, bu

Re: WSJ Article On Why Computers Make Lame Supermarket Cashiers

This thread reminds me of the following cartoon from: http://www.kurzweilai.net/images/only-humans-cartoon.jpg Jason On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 7:24 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > Why does the relation of aesthetic experience to computation have to be > reduced to a simple question about convenience?

Re: A challenge for Craig

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:18:03 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 09 Oct 2013, at 15:43, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 3:18:52 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 08 Oct 2013, at 20:12, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, October 8, 2013

Re: AUDA and pronouns

On 10/9/2013 12:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Oct 2013, at 20:35, meekerdb wrote: On 10/8/2013 2:51 AM, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Oct 07, 2013 at 10:20:14AM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Oct 2013, at 07:36, Russell Standish wrote: ... and Bp&p as "he knows p", so the person or

Re: And the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics goes to…

On 10/9/2013 12:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Oct 2013, at 23:56, LizR wrote: http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2013/10/08/and-the-2013-nobel-prize-in-physics-goes-to/ Today the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics was awarded to Fran

Re: WSJ Article On Why Computers Make Lame Supermarket Cashiers

It's not that computers can't do what humans do, it's that they can't experience anything. Mozart could dig a hole as well as compose music, but that doesn't mean that a backhoe with a player piano on it is Mozart. It's a much deeper problem with how machines are conceptualized that has nothing

Re: AUDA and pronouns

Thanks for this response. It'll take me a while to digest, but I'll get back with the inevitable questions :). On Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 08:17:17PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 08 Oct 2013, at 11:51, Russell Standish wrote: > > >On Mon, Oct 07, 2013 at 10:20:14AM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Re: A challenge for Craig

On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 8:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:18:03 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 09 Oct 2013, at 15:43, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 3:18:52 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 08 Oct 2013, at

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 10 October 2013 06:35, John Clark wrote: > The Many Worlds interpretation is the best bad explanation of why Quantum > Mechanics works. > Nicely summed up! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group a

Re: WSJ Article On Why Computers Make Lame Supermarket Cashiers

On 10 October 2013 09:47, Craig Weinberg wrote: > It's not that computers can't do what humans do, it's that they can't > experience anything. Mozart could dig a hole as well as compose music, but > that doesn't mean that a backhoe with a player piano on it is Mozart. It's > a much deeper problem

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 10/9/2013 10:35 AM, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:19 PM, meekerdb > wrote: > How do you explain quantum mechanical probabilities in the Many Worlds interpretation? Not very well, assigning probabilities is unquestionably the weakest part of the

Re: A challenge for Craig

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 4:56:45 PM UTC-4, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 8:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > >> >> >> On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:18:03 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 09 Oct 2013, at 15:43, Craig Weinberg wrote: >>> >>> >>>

Re: WSJ Article On Why Computers Make Lame Supermarket Cashiers

On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 5:52:46 PM UTC-4, Liz R wrote: > > On 10 October 2013 09:47, Craig Weinberg > > wrote: > >> It's not that computers can't do what humans do, it's that they can't >> experience anything. Mozart could dig a hole as well as compose music, but >> that doesn't mean tha

Re: WSJ Article On Why Computers Make Lame Supermarket Cashiers

On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 4:52 PM, LizR wrote: > On 10 October 2013 09:47, Craig Weinberg wrote: > >> It's not that computers can't do what humans do, it's that they can't >> experience anything. Mozart could dig a hole as well as compose music, but >> that doesn't mean that a backhoe with a player

Re: WSJ Article On Why Computers Make Lame Supermarket Cashiers

On 10 October 2013 13:03, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 5:52:46 PM UTC-4, Liz R wrote: > >> On 10 October 2013 09:47, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >>> It's not that computers can't do what humans do,* it's that they can't >>> experience anything.* Mozart could dig a hole as

RE: What gives philosophers a bad name?

Hi Bruno >> I don't see why. There is a chance of 1/2 to feel oneself in M, and of 1/2 >> to feel oneself in W, but the probability is 1 (assuming comp, the protocol, >> etc.) to find oneself alive. This begs the question. And the probability of finding oneself alive is 1 in both your view an

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

If Helsinki man understands the situation, he will assign a 100% probability to him being duplicated and ending in both places. Similarly a physicist who believes in MWI will assign a 100% probability to him splitting and observing all possible outcomes. This is not, however, how people normally vi

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 10/9/2013 6:25 PM, chris peck wrote: Hi Bruno />> I don't see why. There is a chance of 1/2 to feel oneself in M, and of 1/2 to feel oneself in W, but the probability is 1 (assuming comp, the protocol, etc.) to find oneself alive. / This begs the question. And the probability of finding o

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

On 10/9/2013 6:37 PM, LizR wrote: If Helsinki man understands the situation, he will assign a 100% probability to him being duplicated and ending in both places. Similarly a physicist who believes in MWI will assign a 100% probability to him splitting and observing all possible outcomes. This i

RE: What gives philosophers a bad name?

Hi Liz >> This is not, however, how people normally view these matters. The physicist >> feels that he had a (say) 50% chance of him observing spin-up despite his >> knowledge of the MWI, and I guess Helsinki man feels the same way about >> arriving in Moscow, if only because our brains are "wi

Re: A challenge for Craig

On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 4:56:45 PM UTC-4, Platonist Guitar Cowboy > wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 8:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:18:03 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>

RE: What gives philosophers a bad name?

Hi Brent But one of the essential things about quantum mechanics is futures are uncertain even give complete knowldge. I disagree. This is still 'up for grabs' and dependent on whether the interpretation is indeterminsitic (copenhagen,etc) or deterministic (MWI). Its a feature of MWI that all

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

I still think this is quibbling. I at least believe I know what Bruno means when he asks H-man to assign a probability to "his" chances of appearing in Moscow. Perhaps Bruno is being sloppy in talking about probabilities, because the whole situation is deterministic, but it does at least give a "po

RE: What gives philosophers a bad name?

Hi Liz >> Oh dear, I think I will go and lie down now. (Or then again, I won't...) Precisely. Being a true MWI believer you can be certain of both. :) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 16:35:56 +1300 Subject: Re: What gives philosophers a bad name? From: lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list@google

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

I will also be spontaneously combusting, rocketing to the Moon, and being proclaimed Queen of the Universe. On 10 October 2013 16:50, chris peck wrote: > Hi Liz > > > *>> > * > *Oh dear, I think I will go and lie down now. > * * > * > * * > *(Or then again, I won't...)* > > Precisely. Being a t