Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
Is this like Eddie Murphy's character "Clarence," who played saxophone with the Beatles? -d On Friday, December 20, 2002, at 10:50 AM, Kent williams wrote: Dan, you didn't know that Yngvie was originally the fifth member of Kraftwerk, and was cut from the master tapes after a tiff with Florian? SOME TECHNO RESEARCHER YOU ARE! On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, Dan Sicko wrote: Now I've seen everything on this list. :) On Friday, December 20, 2002, at 10:29 AM, Kent williams wrote: Yngvie Malmsteen. kent williams -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cornwarning.com -- Iowa's First Techno Record Label http://www.mp3.com/chaircrusher -- tunes
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
Dan, you didn't know that Yngvie was originally the fifth member of Kraftwerk, and was cut from the master tapes after a tiff with Florian? SOME TECHNO RESEARCHER YOU ARE! On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, Dan Sicko wrote: > Now I've seen everything on this list. :) > > On Friday, December 20, 2002, at 10:29 AM, Kent williams wrote: > > > Yngvie Malmsteen. > kent williams -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cornwarning.com -- Iowa's First Techno Record Label http://www.mp3.com/chaircrusher -- tunes
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
Now I've seen everything on this list. :) On Friday, December 20, 2002, at 10:29 AM, Kent williams wrote: Yngvie Malmsteen.
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
1. You actually move parts of your body when you play an instrument. Audiences interpret this as 'doing something' 2. While there are many challenges to doing live Techno, the idea that the performers spent time learning to play instruments, and can re-create their music in front of them in real time, using their hands, voices, and feet is regarded, fair or not, as more artistically valid. 3. A guitarist playing the same riff for 4 minutes is subtly varied in a way a computer playing the same riff for 4 minutes. I don't disagree with what you're saying really, but live performance is all about perception. I get more respect if I drag out a TR707 to a set, even if I never use it, because people mistake it for a 909. I grew up in a performing family, and my parents ingrained in me that most of the audience perceives only about 1/10th of what you're doing. The spectacle of the event is every bit as important as the content. Sure, there are always 'the headz' in the crowd who hang on your every knob-twiddle, but it's dangerous to cater to them. Do that and you're some sort of Yngvie Malmsteen. On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Klaas-Jan Jongsma wrote: > I never played on stage with a guitar but i always wondered why > people say that as soon as a band uses guitars, drums, sax etc. it is > considered more live then some guy who is working the hell out of a > bunch of electronic equipment? I never understood why repeating a > guitar riff for 4 minutes is considered more live then arranging > electronic equipment for 4 minutes? >
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
- Original Message - From: "Jernej Marusic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Jayson B.'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:54 PM Subject: RE: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public) > One way for doing live PAs would be to get a bunch of musicians playing > live keyboards... and you would be behind the mixer working the effects, > and kind of conducting them when to play something... If you are alone > it's not physically possible to really play everything live. This is kind of what the Aux Men performance at DEMF was like this year. > When I saw mad Professor live, it was something similar. He had a band > playing on the stage, and he was playing the mixer and effects. Yeah. I've seen him twice now, once with mixing board at DEMF, and once on keyboard and Effects in support of Lee 'Scratch' Perry at SXSW. The DEMF show was pretty awesome and the SXSW show was really unbelieveable, but at this point I think you're talking more about forming an electronic band than orchestrating a live PA, for whatever that semantic difference is worth. Tristan === Text/Mixes: http://phonopsia.tripod.com Music: http://www.mp313.com Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] New Mix in mp3, 'Live in Iowa City' available for a short time from http://phonopsia.isoprax.com
RE: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
One way for doing live PAs would be to get a bunch of musicians playing live keyboards... and you would be behind the mixer working the effects, and kind of conducting them when to play something... If you are alone it's not physically possible to really play everything live. When I saw mad Professor live, it was something similar. He had a band playing on the stage, and he was playing the mixer and effects. Jernej www.soundoflj.com/octex -Original Message- From: Jayson B. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19. december 2002 20:32 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public) >Maybe techno producers who do live PAs should break down and take a >couple keyboard lessons? Carl Craig played some live keys when I saw >his live PA, I think it was as Paperclip People. and i found everytime he touched the keys i got bored. the thing is, playing full 'live' or not, when you're playing the keyboard you're also assuring the crowd that you're *not* tweaking the bass, dropping the cymbal line, bringing in a synth solo, or sliding up a string line an octave. whether or not you're doing that i don't think is the point: making the crowd think you are *is*, and when you're playing a keyboard you are assuring them that you're not. _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
- Original Message - From: "Jayson B." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 3:32 PM Subject: Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public) > > > >I agree with fred here, also, I pack nearly 500 sounds into my PAs and > >although I have an idea of which sounds go best together, I try to avoid > >arranging my PAs in any order. > > > ah. i disagree whole heartedly. i feel too many pa's do it this way, and > it begins to feel like "here's this sound, now i take this one away, now > here's another," and i get bored pretty easily without any kind of dynamics. > yes it could be that way, but thats what sets PA artists apart. you're kind of a just on a micro scale. instead of mixing full tracks, you're mixing little chunks of them until you have a composite track. at this point, hopefully it sounds like one piece of music and not 25 loops running synced against each other :) -Joe
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
I agree with fred here, also, I pack nearly 500 sounds into my PAs and although I have an idea of which sounds go best together, I try to avoid arranging my PAs in any order. ah. i disagree whole heartedly. i feel too many pa's do it this way, and it begins to feel like "here's this sound, now i take this one away, now here's another," and i get bored pretty easily without any kind of dynamics. while i consider my live sets fluid, i still have lots of structure. I know *exactly* how i want my songs to progress (and have the patterns set up as such), but i am still able to stretch out any segment of the song as i see fit and manipulate in new ways if i feel the crowd will like it. and while my songs are "arranged," i am still able to play what tracks *when* i want to. and if i feel saucy and want to drop new samples in, i will. but i feel song structure if *very* important, and i honestly feel its a big reason why a lot of live pa's just don't get popular. Patterns and soundmaking are only half of it; creative arrangement is such a huge part of this music that too many live artists ignore it for the sake of being totally 'live.' _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
on 12/19/02 1:26 PM, Cyborg K at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Maybe techno producers who do live PAs should break down and take a couple > keyboard lessons? Part of the appeal of techno is it's all about composing and producing tracks utilizing technology. Why do techno producers have to be pressured to know how to play traditional musical instruments like a keyboard or guitar when doing a live PA? Keyboards are for piano players I'd much rather see an abstract non traditional live performance representing the electronic music genre being played. (unless your playing Parliament/ Funkadelic b-lines on a Minimoog)
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
I agree with fred here, also, I pack nearly 500 sounds into my PAs and although I have an idea of which sounds go best together, I try to avoid arranging my PAs in any order. I do live sampling in some PAs where I will sample and resample to both bounce audio out with fx or to nearly double the complexity of the "track" without committing more resources to running 10-15 more clips. - Original Message - From: "FRED giannelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jayson B." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 2:41 PM Subject: Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public) > Well, I consider the art of arranging as the art of the Live PA. Whether it > be using traditional samplers and sequencers or a Laptop with Ableton live > on it. I've done it both ways. I don't think the audience really cares as > long as they like what is coming out of the speakers whether or not you use > a laptop or bulky equipment. > > In the past I've also played guitar onstage for years and actually feel more > involved with the music when I'm messing around with Ableton Live onstage > rather than rocking out with a guitar. > > telepathic regards, > the kooky scientist > > > > > on 12/19/02 2:32 PM, Jayson B. at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > >> Maybe techno producers who do live PAs should break down and take a couple > >> keyboard lessons? > >> Carl Craig played some live keys when I saw his live PA, I think it was as > >> Paperclip People. > > > > > > and i found everytime he touched the keys i got bored. the thing is, > > playing full 'live' or not, when you're playing the keyboard you're also > > assuring the crowd that you're *not* tweaking the bass, dropping the cymbal > > line, bringing in a synth solo, or sliding up a string line an octave. > > whether or not you're doing that i don't think is the point: making the > > crowd think you are *is*, and when you're playing a keyboard you are > > assuring them that you're not. > > > > _ > > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > >
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
I never played on stage with a guitar but i always wondered why people say that as soon as a band uses guitars, drums, sax etc. it is considered more live then some guy who is working the hell out of a bunch of electronic equipment? I never understood why repeating a guitar riff for 4 minutes is considered more live then arranging electronic equipment for 4 minutes? At 14:41 -0500 19-12-2002, FRED giannelli wrote: Well, I consider the art of arranging as the art of the Live PA. Whether it be using traditional samplers and sequencers or a Laptop with Ableton live on it. I've done it both ways. I don't think the audience really cares as long as they like what is coming out of the speakers whether or not you use a laptop or bulky equipment. In the past I've also played guitar onstage for years and actually feel more involved with the music when I'm messing around with Ableton Live onstage rather than rocking out with a guitar. telepathic regards, the kooky scientist -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
Actually that's a really interesting point... I've actually decided I need to add a second keyboard player to my solo live PA for that reason, so that I can be free to either play OR tweak, or he can tweak if I need both hands. A MIDI foot pedal would help too. If you are quick though it is possible to play quite a bit of keys and tweak at the same time... /dave -Original Message- From: Jayson B. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 2:32 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public) >Maybe techno producers who do live PAs should break down and take a couple >keyboard lessons? >Carl Craig played some live keys when I saw his live PA, I think it was as >Paperclip People. and i found everytime he touched the keys i got bored. the thing is, playing full 'live' or not, when you're playing the keyboard you're also assuring the crowd that you're *not* tweaking the bass, dropping the cymbal line, bringing in a synth solo, or sliding up a string line an octave. whether or not you're doing that i don't think is the point: making the crowd think you are *is*, and when you're playing a keyboard you are assuring them that you're not. _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
Well, I consider the art of arranging as the art of the Live PA. Whether it be using traditional samplers and sequencers or a Laptop with Ableton live on it. I've done it both ways. I don't think the audience really cares as long as they like what is coming out of the speakers whether or not you use a laptop or bulky equipment. In the past I've also played guitar onstage for years and actually feel more involved with the music when I'm messing around with Ableton Live onstage rather than rocking out with a guitar. telepathic regards, the kooky scientist on 12/19/02 2:32 PM, Jayson B. at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> Maybe techno producers who do live PAs should break down and take a couple >> keyboard lessons? >> Carl Craig played some live keys when I saw his live PA, I think it was as >> Paperclip People. > > > and i found everytime he touched the keys i got bored. the thing is, > playing full 'live' or not, when you're playing the keyboard you're also > assuring the crowd that you're *not* tweaking the bass, dropping the cymbal > line, bringing in a synth solo, or sliding up a string line an octave. > whether or not you're doing that i don't think is the point: making the > crowd think you are *is*, and when you're playing a keyboard you are > assuring them that you're not. > > _ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail >
RE: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
Maybe techno producers who do live PAs should break down and take a couple keyboard lessons? Carl Craig played some live keys when I saw his live PA, I think it was as Paperclip People. and i found everytime he touched the keys i got bored. the thing is, playing full 'live' or not, when you're playing the keyboard you're also assuring the crowd that you're *not* tweaking the bass, dropping the cymbal line, bringing in a synth solo, or sliding up a string line an octave. whether or not you're doing that i don't think is the point: making the crowd think you are *is*, and when you're playing a keyboard you are assuring them that you're not. _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
RE: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
Maybe techno producers who do live PAs should break down and take a couple keyboard lessons? Carl Craig played some live keys when I saw his live PA, I think it was as Paperclip People. /dave -Original Message- From: Dennis DeSantis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 2:38 AM Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public) Kent williams wrote: > I still don't know how to make a live electronic set truly dynamic. My > solution is to improvise it all live with live loop sampling. You have to embrace and work with the fact that there's only so "live" a live PA is going to get. The reason for this comes down to the very nature of what it is that we do when we're onstage. Instrumentalists have a completely different relationship to their instruments than MPC or laptop artists do - do an action and out comes a response; there's a one-to-one correspondance between the behavior of an instrument and the actions of its user. But if you're working with sequences, that one-to-one correspondance goes out the window. We're not setting single events in motion. Instead we're setting pre-organized chains of events in motion, and those chains often have a rhythmic relationship to one another that's quantized. This isn't a quality judgement. It's just the nature of the music. Take that quantization away and you have something that isn't really techno any more. -- Dennis DeSantis www.dennisdesantis.com
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
::) wrote on Wed, 18 Dec 2002 about following: > 3.) new stretch routines and the ability to turn stretching off (greatly > increasing sound quality) whoah, thats great. i hope they can make the timestretch better, because it's sounds even worse than what was in Sound Forge 3, MANY years ago. there was some discussion elsewhere that 2.0 should be able to do tempo changes? (in similar way as acid does) sakke -- - * time to jack * - http://www.arabuusimiehet.com/sakke/music.html
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
Kent williams wrote: I still don't know how to make a live electronic set truly dynamic. My solution is to improvise it all live with live loop sampling. You have to embrace and work with the fact that there's only so "live" a live PA is going to get. The reason for this comes down to the very nature of what it is that we do when we're onstage. Instrumentalists have a completely different relationship to their instruments than MPC or laptop artists do - do an action and out comes a response; there's a one-to-one correspondance between the behavior of an instrument and the actions of its user. But if you're working with sequences, that one-to-one correspondance goes out the window. We're not setting single events in motion. Instead we're setting pre-organized chains of events in motion, and those chains often have a rhythmic relationship to one another that's quantized. This isn't a quality judgement. It's just the nature of the music. Take that quantization away and you have something that isn't really techno any more. -- Dennis DeSantis www.dennisdesantis.com
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
Well, I think Stewart's animus against laptops is that most laptop performances involves people staring at computer screens -- i.e. zero charisma, and in some cases, people doing absolutely nothing truly live. I've seen my share of people doing 'live' sets with the equivalent of Winamp. Stewart's sets are to some extent pre-sequenced, in that his MPC is full of patterns, but he is constantly reacting to the audience and context in how the set flows. To some extent he could transfer everything he does, including his method of constructing his sets, to Ableton Live. Fred Giannelli has done basically that, and he and Stewart are friends. But people work the way they want to work -- farbeit from me to criticize his results. I still don't know how to make a live electronic set truly dynamic. My solution is to improvise it all live with live loop sampling. People can see me play guitar, sing, play percussion, rip paper, talk, and it all goes through the computer and I mess with it. Really I'd like to get more people involved, playing instruments and such, but it's hard finding people who can improvise and play off of others well. On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Adam Jay wrote: > > it also puts me further away from the "all laptop Live PA" stigma, and > the last thing i need is to be hated by the Stewart Walker massive. > (though what is the difference between sequencing sounds live on a $1200 > mpc than sequencing sounds live on a $1200 laptop ?) > > however if you CAN get Ableton to function properly with programs like > Reason, then the VST capabilities become amazing. > > -adam jay >
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
["::)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] > a few quick improvements, although this is way off topic: > > 1.) 2 new fx > 2.) multiple midi inputs > 3.) new stretch routines and the ability to turn stretching off (greatly > increasing sound quality) > 4.) group based crossfader > 5.) fixed highpass filter > 6.) fullscreen mode > 7.) true soloing Dude, tempo sequencing! I can't tell you how this important is. They have that "render to disk" option but you can only render the set at one tempo- I'm so happy they fixed that. -- :: atomly :: [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] : www.atomly.com ... [ atomiq records : po box 805319 chicago il 60680 : 877.741.3571 ... [ send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] info and updates ...
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
a few quick improvements, although this is way off topic: 1.) 2 new fx 2.) multiple midi inputs 3.) new stretch routines and the ability to turn stretching off (greatly increasing sound quality) 4.) group based crossfader 5.) fixed highpass filter 6.) fullscreen mode 7.) true soloing very useful stuff, for me at least -Joe - Original Message - From: "Adam Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 3:25 PM Subject: Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public) > i've been fiddling with ableton for a while, and its a good program. > i honestly did not notice any changes for the better in the 2.0 beta. > programs like Reason (1.0 and 2.0) still have problems "rewireing". > > but for live work, i can honestly say that my Electrix Repeater > (disclaimer, i hate all electrix products but this one) takes the cake > for live loop manipulation. > > it also puts me further away from the "all laptop Live PA" stigma, and > the last thing i need is to be hated by the Stewart Walker massive. > (though what is the difference between sequencing sounds live on a $1200 > mpc than sequencing sounds live on a $1200 laptop ?) > > however if you CAN get Ableton to function properly with programs like > Reason, then the VST capabilities become amazing. > > -adam jay >
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
i've been fiddling with ableton for a while, and its a good program. i honestly did not notice any changes for the better in the 2.0 beta. programs like Reason (1.0 and 2.0) still have problems "rewireing". but for live work, i can honestly say that my Electrix Repeater (disclaimer, i hate all electrix products but this one) takes the cake for live loop manipulation. it also puts me further away from the "all laptop Live PA" stigma, and the last thing i need is to be hated by the Stewart Walker massive. (though what is the difference between sequencing sounds live on a $1200 mpc than sequencing sounds live on a $1200 laptop ?) however if you CAN get Ableton to function properly with programs like Reason, then the VST capabilities become amazing. -adam jay
Re: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public)
Man that was a pain in the ass to install. - Original Message - From: "::)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 1:42 PM Subject: (313) ableton live 2 beta 2 out (public) > http://www.ableton.com/beta/download.php > > > >Please send all bug reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please do not use any > other email >address, the forum or other means of contact to report a bug. > > -Joe > > > > jinjin_a_gogo: i wonder what he's listening to in those bigazz headphones > while's he's spinning this shxt for us > > >
