Re: [abcusers] dynamics
On Tue, 23 Oct 2001, Taral wrote: This is exactly my intent with libabc. If all goes well, I'll probably go and put it on sourceforge somewhere. two sites are already set up for you: 1) http://abc.sourceforge.net - standard ABC 1) http://abcplus.sourceforge.net - ABC with extensions for classical music Please consider contributing to both projects... please! Later, Guido =8-) -- Guido Gonzato, Ph.D. gonzato at sci . univr . it - Linux system manager Universita' di Verona (Italy), Dipartimento Scientifico e Tecnologico Ca' Vignal II, Strada Le Grazie 15, 37134 Verona (Italy) Tel. +39 045 8027990; Fax +39 045 8027958 --- Timeas hominem unius libri To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc libraries
On Tue, Oct 23, 2001 at 02:22:27PM -0400, Buddha Buck wrote: I'm interested in the song structure -- is there a way I could see it? It's been a whole since I've read any ML, but I can probably read even the original ocaml code. http://www.taral.net:/ abc.h (port due to local port 80 blocks) C huh? I'd have though something more object oriented would be useful. Problem is with interoperability. I'd have used something more object-oriented (like ML), but I want as wide an audience for libabc as possible. -- Taral [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is digitally signed. Please PGP encrypt mail to me. Any technology, no matter how primitive, is magic to those who don't understand it. -- Florence Ambrose PGP signature
Re: [abcusers] PGP = Paranoid Guff in Postings
On Tue, Oct 23, 2001 at 09:01:21PM +0100, Jack Campin wrote: I have now trashed six of these things. I haven't looked at a single one of them. Has anybody here? Apparently lots of people read them, since I have had plenty of good discussion here. The fact that you're seeing them and not my message is indicative of the poor quality of your mail client (as is the invalid empty Sender: header field). I suggest getting a better one. Please stop this. It's just annoying clutter we have to delete. I'm not paranoid enough to care if somebody might be impersonating you. And since I'd never heard of you until two days ago and you don't use a real name it's a non-question; impersonating somebody anonymous would be pointless. I'm afraid that's not the point. I attach signatures to all of my mail (with rare exceptions). There are plenty of arguments for this practice in the PGP documentation and all over the web. [This message not signed for your convenience.] -- Taral [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is digitally signed. Please PGP encrypt mail to me. Any technology, no matter how primitive, is magic to those who don't understand it. -- Florence Ambrose To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] dynamics
Laura Conrad said - What we need is a developer who is going to: Use open source, so that anyone can fix bugs. Roll contributions from other people into the source. Implement the standard as written. Clearly label any extensions to the standard used by the program. Write code that can be worked on by multiple people. The fact that abc2ps isn't written this way is probably one of the major reasons for the situation described above. Excellent except for the first and the last. Do you intend to outlaw independant implementations such as BarFly, abc2win, Muse or my own humble abc2nwc? I don't see abc as being defined by any software implementation but to be a standard (or, perhaps, a protocol would be better) for the exchange of musical information regardless of the use to which that information is put. Bryan Creer
Re: [abcusers] PGP = Paranoid Guff in Postings
I have now trashed six of these things. I haven't looked at a single one of them. Has anybody here? Apparently lots of people read them, since I have had plenty of good discussion here. I was talking about the attachments (that was what I quoted) not your messages. If there has been any discussion of your PGP signature I missed it. The fact that you're seeing them and not my message is indicative of the poor quality of your mail client I'm seeing both. I want your messages, I don't want the attachments. (Some mailing lists automatically reject any messages with attachments, you're lucky you can get anything through at all with them stuck on). (as is the invalid empty Sender: header field). I don't create those header fields, the mailing list software does. Your messages have the same feature, as does anything coming out of argyll.wisemagic.com. === http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ === To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] dynamics
Taral said - I'd also like to announce that I will be making the following amendments to the standard in libabc: I'm not sure about unilateral declarations of changes to the standard but nobody from the standards committee seems to have complained. The trouble is, you have no way of enforcing your standard on anybody. If they don't like it, they'll ignore it. I'm probably going to have to provide an "abcfix" program that attempts to "standardize" non-compliant abc files. I'd like to see how that handles BarFly output. I'm going to implement 100% of the draft standard, so I think that should cover a lot of bases. I'll also cover a good number of the abcm2ps extensions because I use them. Do you intend to exclude all versions of V: which has no single standard? You will come up against a lot of opposition there. Good luck. The abc developers community consists of a lot of people who are more committed to their own software than the broader concept of abc and are generally hostile to the concept of a standard. This is why the standards committee set up earlier this year has failed to produce any results and appears to have completely foundered. Bryan Creer
Re: [abcusers] dynamics
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Laura Conrad said - What we need is a developer who is going to: Use open source, so that anyone can fix bugs. Roll contributions from other people into the source. Implement the standard as written. Clearly label any extensions to the standard used by the program. Write code that can be worked on by multiple people. The fact that abc2ps isn't written this way is probably one of the major reasons for the situation described above. Excellent except for the first and the last. Do you intend to outlaw independant implementations such as BarFly, abc2win, Muse or my own humble abc2nwc? I don't see how an open source abclib can have any influence on, let alone be a threat for these projects. What exactly do you mean? I don't see abc as being defined by any software implementation but to be a standard (or, perhaps, a protocol would be better) for the exchange of musical information regardless of the use to which that information is put. I heartily agree. -- bert van vreckem If Bill Gates had a nickel for every time Windows crashed... Oh wait! He does! To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc libraries
On Tue 23 Oct 2001 at 04:04PM +0100, Phil Taylor wrote: James Allwright wrote: Some time ago I toyed with the idea of creating an intermediate level format (ILF) which would make it easier for developers to create new tools. We would then have separate programs for abc - ILF ILF - PostScript / Display on Screen ILF - MIDI The idea is that the ILF is read and written by computer and designed to be very simple to parse. All this seemed like quite a lot of work, so I never got very far. Yes, I thought about that too. It's an appealing idea, but the problem is that the ILF has to be very comprehensive because it has to represent absolutely anything which is found in music, otherwise future extensions to abc will invalidate it. You end up with something which is just as hard to parse as abc. Yes, you are probably right. However, an ILF which describes printed music only might just work. James Allwright To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Gloggauer Liederbuch
On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, Simon Wascher wrote: Baerenreiter does indeed own the copyright on the actuall layout, the picture of the print, but never does or did own the musical composition itself. IANAL, but they do own the copyright on all of the editorial changes they made, so for all intents and purposes, the music itself is copyrighted. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Gloggauer Liederbuch
On Wed 24 Oct 2001 at 10:57AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, Simon Wascher wrote: Baerenreiter does indeed own the copyright on the actuall layout, the picture of the print, but never does or did own the musical composition itself. IANAL, but they do own the copyright on all of the editorial changes they made, so for all intents and purposes, the music itself is copyrighted. PEYA (please expand your acronym). James Allwright To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Gloggauer Liederbuch
On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, James Allwright wrote: PEYA (please expand your acronym). I Am Not A Lawyer To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Re: abcusers-digest V1 #575
In a message dated 10/24/2001 8:59:55 AM Central Daylight Time, UnknownSender@UnknownDomain writes: that's very good! What kind of application are you writing? I hope it's not yet another abc2ps clone... in that case, it would probably be a better idea contributing code to existing programs like abcm2ps or jaabc2ps. What does this abc2ps do any way? Whenever I run it, there's just a little DOS window that flashes.
Re: [abcusers] dynamics
Bert Van Vreckem said - I don't see how an open source abclib can have any influence on, let alone be a threat for these projects. What exactly do you mean? I don't see abc as being defined by any software implementation but to be a standard (or, perhaps, a protocol would be better) for the exchange of musical information regardless of the use to which that information is put. I heartily agree. and Laura Conrad said - I'm not proposing outlawing anything. I write personal computer programs myself, and they're very useful to me. I was just saying what I would need to see to get excited about a new implementation. I am sorry if I have misunderstood Laura's meaning here. The first part of her posting discussed the problems of reaching agreement between different developers on the standards committee. I thought she was offering this approach as the solution to that problem. I am concerned that there is a danger of thinking that the sourceforge project IS abc. When it was launched, I seem to recall that one of its initial tasks was identified as formalising and developing the abc standard. I do not think that any one development path should usurp that task; it is the property of all - developers and users alike. Richard Robinson said - You're going to start explaining to us why open-source is wrong, now ? Why on earth should I do that? I am merely pointing out that open-source is one of several approaches to development all of which are perfectly legitimate. Please restrict your criticisms to what I've actually said rather than speculating on what I might say and condemning me for that. Do you intend to outlaw bugfixing ? No, but I don't intend to devote much time to bug fixing abc2ps or its clones any more than I'd expect James Allwrightto bugfix BarFly or Phil Taylor to bugfix abc2nwc (bug reports always welcome of course). Or collaboration ? As the sorry tale of the standards committee shows, collaboration on abc is sadly lacking and I would like to see a great deal more. I just don't want to see collaboration on one particular software implemetation being seen as collaboration on abc to the exclusion of other developments. Brian, what's being talked about here is a library. You know ? A set of useful functions that can be included in other peoples' programs, right ? The only possible use for a library is to _help_ people to write their own programs. Given a suitable "open-source" license, of course ... Rather than talking down to me, perhaps you would like to offer me some advice on how as a Windows/Visual Basic programmer I can participate in this process. Bryan Creer
Re: [abcusers] dynamics
taral == taral [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Good luck. The abc developers community consists of a lot of people who are more committed to their own software than the broader concept of abc and are generally hostile to the concept of a standard. This is why the standards committee set up earlier this year has failed to produce any results and appears to have completely foundered. taral Who is on this committee? Here is a list of the official members: James Allwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] Robert Bley-Vroman [EMAIL PROTECTED] John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Laura Conrad [EMAIL PROTECTED] Laurie Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Several other people are non-voting members by virtue of being on the mailing list by invitation of the members. I would be willing to resign in favor of someone with more enthusiasm for the project than I have at the moment. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] dynamics
On Wed, 24 Oct 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian, what's being talked about here is a library. You know ? A set of useful functions that can be included in other peoples' programs, right ? The only possible use for a library is to _help_ people to write their own programs. Given a suitable open-source license, of course ... Rather than talking down to me, perhaps you would like to offer me some advice on how as a Windows/Visual Basic programmer I can participate in this process. Consider the possibility that a separately-maintained ABC library, open-source bug-fixed by anybody that cares to take part, linked into your front-end code, might make your life easier too ? I'm sorry, as a non-VB programmer I don't know how VB links to a C library, but I imagine it must be possible by now. -- Richard Robinson The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes - S. Lem To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
RE: [abcusers] dynamics
Have you looked at Denemo (http://denemo.sourceforge.net)? The Web page
hasn't been updated in a while but the development is very active, and
there's ABC export (not import) in 0.5.6. It is not a text editor; rather,
it is a graphical editor that can import/export multiple formats, rather
like Note Edit, it seems. I'll probably be adding ABC import at some point,
but I haven't bothered yet. (Usually my composition/transcription process
is: write the main body of the piece in Denemo, export to ABC, tweak as
appropriate.)
- Eric
-Original Message-
From: Aaron Newman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 4:09 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: [abcusers] dynamics
Thanks, I re-read the abc2midi and I found the dynamics with the other
markings.
My application will be an interactive GUI text editor that also
displays the
notes graphically. So it will use ABC as input instead of Midi or the
point/click method like most programs do.
Thanks for pointing me to Note Editor. I don't think I can use it, but I
may use TSE3 for the MIDI input/output. I don't think a parsing library
would be helpful to me; I don't think parsing the ABC language is the
difficult part. This app is not based on any of the x2ps ones, but I did
convert some of the PS drawing routines for clefs, note heads and such.
The first version will probably be available in the spring and will run
under Windows. But I am using WxWindows so a Linux port will be easy
enough. The emphasis will be on extensibility and portability at
first, and
on features (like different input/output formats) later on.
-Original Message-
From: Guido Gonzato [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 2:58 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: Re: [abcusers] dynamics
On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Aaron Newman wrote:
I read in the FAQ that there is no way now to do dynamics in
the official
ABC language. How are people handling this?
the FAQ should be updated. In actual fact, many ABC applications support
dynamics; abcm2ps, jaabc2ps, abc2midi, to name but a few. Please check out
the ABC draft, http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc/abc-draft.txt
I am working on a (yet another) free ABC music editing and display
program,
and for some reason I overlooked this originally.
that's very good! What kind of application are you writing? I
hope it's not
yet another abc2ps clone... in that case, it would probably be a
better idea
contributing code to existing programs like abcm2ps or jaabc2ps.
Also: have you checked out Note Editor,
http://tan.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de/~jan/noteedit/noteedit.html ?
It's an astounding graphical music editor, but it lacks ABC export. If
you're a talented programmer, you might consider helping that project.
Also, I would also like the language to be able to handle jazz,
so I would
be adding some additional note ornaments ('doits', falls), how is this
recommended?
I can't help you here. It looks like most ABC programmers add their own
extensions to ABC to make it suitable for classical music or
else, so adding
decos for jazz would be just fine. (IMHO.) It breaks the standard, though.
Ciao,
Guido =8-)
--
Guido Gonzato, Ph.D. gonzato at sci . univr . it - Linux system manager
Universita' di Verona (Italy), Dipartimento Scientifico e Tecnologico
Ca' Vignal II, Strada Le Grazie 15, 37134 Verona (Italy)
Tel. +39 045 8027990; Fax +39 045 8027958 --- Timeas hominem unius libri
To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
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RE: [abcusers] dynamics
taral == taral [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Write code that can be worked on by multiple people. The fact that abc2ps isn't written this way is probably one of the major reasons for the situation described above. I think this is true of a lot of free software. From: Wendy Galovich ... Would such a non-platform-specific documentation method be of any value in helping developers using a variety of platforms and development tools to sort through the details? It would! How about a framework with UML documentation, class heirarchies, sequence diagrams and a design that lends itself to parallel development. There aren't many net projects like this but I think its do-able. Also, I'd think that creating a standard would be less frustrating if there was a working prototype that implemented the standard and also did lots of useful stuff. -Original Message- ... To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
