Re: [AFMUG] forrest- cambium style sync

[Steve Jones]

We can also get them in any color we want, as long as its black

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 7:20 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Did you mean thus: “ can be powered by either +48VDC or +48VDC.”
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 21, 2020, at 5:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
> >
> > This can be powered by either +48VDC or +48VDC.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] forrest- cambium style sync

[Steve Jones]

Im putting out my last canopy sync, on what should be my last 2000 ap. But
i need spares and as much as its dumb, as we cycle the 2000s to 3000s,
thpse will likely be redeployed. We have to put in our order. So to be
clear, i can NOT use the cambium sync on a 2000, which uses canopy sync. Is
this correct?

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 7:20 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Did you mean thus: “ can be powered by either +48VDC or +48VDC.”
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 21, 2020, at 5:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
> >
> > This can be powered by either +48VDC or +48VDC.
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] New stuff

[Jaime Solorza]

The 1.830GHz is a Federal band and the building they are in used to belong
to FBI.  Everything outdoors is fiber inside sturdy conduit.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 7:16 PM Darin Steffl  wrote:

> Never heard of anything in those bands?
>
> Who can use that spectrum and for what purpose?
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 7:13 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Check these out...Janteq running at 1.830Ghz and Cambium at 7GHz...
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] New stuff

[Darin Steffl]

Never heard of anything in those bands?

Who can use that spectrum and for what purpose?

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 7:13 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Check these out...Janteq running at 1.830Ghz and Cambium at 7GHz...
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] forrest- cambium style sync

[Chuck McCown]

Did you mean thus: “ can be powered by either +48VDC or +48VDC.”

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 21, 2020, at 5:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>  wrote:
> 
> This can be powered by either +48VDC or +48VDC.

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Re: [AFMUG] forrest- cambium style sync

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

This is our current card recommendations:

For those radios which need Cambium Sync, (48V CMM5 style), you must have
the Cambium sync cards.   This is fine for 450i, 450m, epmp3000 and
PTP550.   I don't think I missed any others.   This card does *not* have
jumpers because of some of the side effects of how we do Cambium Sync here,
so it's mostly limited to the Cambium sync radios.   This can be powered by
either +48VDC or +48VDC.

For radios which need canopy/CMM3/CMM4 sync (optionally the 450i, and then
any earlier radios (epmp 2000 and below, 100 series, etc)), then you need
the Canopy sync card.   This card can be used for other radios as long as
they are ok with positive power.   IT needs positive voltage suitable for
the radio you're powering, usually +24V or +48V.

Everything else can use the Polarity agnostic card.  It supports positive
or negative voltages and can be jumpered for pretty much any gigabit
friendly PoE scheme.

I usually tell people that unless they have a need for the Canopy Sync
card, to use the Cambium Sync board for their newer cambium radios, and the
polarity agnostic card for everything else.The radios which need Canopy
sync should be getting fewer in your network not more.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:50 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> POWERINJECTOR PLUS CAMBIUM-STYLE SYNC
> Looking to standardize. This is the only one that will provide sync to
> epmp 3k?
> it will also do 450i?
> Will it do epmp 1k/2k at all?
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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Re: [AFMUG] STL issues-

[Jaime Solorza]

Yep.  Didn't use it

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 3:47 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Nice tripod.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 4:37 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] STL issues-
>
>
>
> The engineer for station turned off STL RX side and we connected SA to
> analyzer.  We picked up at signal at 950.6MHz hitting their antenna.  The
> Mosely had one error since he reset counter yesterday.  He knows another
> station is using 950.625MHz higher up on Franklin's...Is going to work with
> them on polarity and maybe moving antenna to side of building to shield
> it.  The radio folks brought a KP antenna for the sweep out side.   I had
> my TY-900 but he said he liked using his due to narrow beam...he is paying
> us so I said fine.
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/21/20 12:04 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I don't have experience with letsencrypt but a webserver software mailing
list I'm on has constant traffic about problems with certs not renewing.  It
may be specific to that software, but my gut tells me if this is something
mission critical and you don't want to monitor it for problems, just pay a
regular cert authority.  It's not a trivial amount of money, but not
Bloomberg money either.  I have too many things demanding my time already
without having to babysit website certs.



I've converted 100% of my certs to use Let's Encrypt. As long as your 
automated renewals are working you're golden. That's the catch though, 
LE certs are only good for 90 days, so you absolutely can't be brain 
dead about making sure automated renewals work. I use the default 
certbot client but there are many other clients.



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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

[Ryan Ray]

In our case our upload was being impacted in a very real way. 1x - 2x where
we should have had 6x - 8x connections. Once we synced up everything went
back to normal. I didn't notice any throughput issues by syncing.


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:37 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> and I do.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/21/2020 12:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> That’s like saying I love all my wives equally.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 2:25 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>
>
>
> i worry about both equally
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:10 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> By performance hit are you referring to the frame period?  Which is a
> tradeoff between throughput and latency, so which are you worried about
> most?
>
>
>
> Or did I misunderstand the issue.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 1:46 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>
>
>
> the hit is on the 450 not the LTE though to sync?
>
> what kind of a performance hit is it?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 1:29 PM Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
> Yes sir. We do it with others running 3.65 Huawei LTE. Works great.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 11:11 AM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
> Is it possible to sync Cambium with LTE gear?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:36 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> There's also advantage to coexistence groups, though as I understand it,
> that's a SAS value add and not a requirement.
>
>
>
> As I understand it, a group of operators could form a co-existence group
> to ignore each other when determining availability. This would be used when
> a group of operators agreed to the same timing, uplink\downlink, etc.
> settings so that they didn't interfere with each other...  like how
> GPS-based operators coexist today.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, February 21, 2020 12:31:28 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>
> people worry about the contiguous block issue too much. The longest you
> would go with a non contiguous grant is a day. When the sas get jiggy with
> each other at night the channels will be redistributed in contiguous blocks.
>
>
>
> Getting 4 channels for a 40mhz will happen for a period, but man is that a
> bad business decision for the long term unless there is zero competition
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:34 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> The answer is a bit complicated, for example I suspect the SAS could give
> you a grant, but not at the full xmt power a 450m is capable of, so your
> range and modulation is reduced.
>
>
>
> Probably nobody knows the answer.  A few WISPs who participated in ICD
> might have some idea.  But if you are asking can you count on getting 80
> MHz out of a total 150 MHz, and also as 2 contiguous blocks, I think we
> know the answer.  Even if it happened initially, that seems unlikely long
> term.
>
>
>
> Much advertising hype in our business is based on “could it happen” rather
> than “can we count on it”.  That works with 5G because they are talking
> about everybody getting gigabit speeds but if everybody only gets 1/10 of
> that it’s still pretty damn fast.  Not sure the same applies if you talk
> about everybody getting 100 meg but most of the time it’s more like 10 meg.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt .
> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 9:11 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>
>
>
> The other important question is if we can count on getting a
> contiguous 40mhz channel from the SAS, much less two of them to run a full
> cluster of 450m in ABAB.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:59 AM Matt Mangriotis via AF 
> wrote:
>
> Using 450i or 450b on the SM (client) side, a real world aggregate speed
> test can be as high as 250 Mbps. If you have cnMeudsa (450m AP) for the
> sector, you can achieve >750 Mbps (theoretically up to 1 Gbps, but I would
> be lying to tell you I have ever seen this kind of efficiency in the real
> world) sector capacity due 

Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[Jesse DuPont]

  
  
AlphaSSL has cheap 1 and 2 year certs. Even their wildcard if cheap
(if you wanted to use it on more than one host with the same
domain).


  
  
  
  
  
  
  Jesse DuPont
  Network Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC
  Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us!
  facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
  
  Like us!
  facebook.com/celeritybroadband
  


On 2/21/20 12:24 PM, Mark - Myakka
  Technologies wrote:


  I need to get a security certificate for a web page.  This is going to
be  for  a single page for new customers to enter payment information.
Not sure what I need.  I've seen prices all over the place.

This  will  be a CGI generated page.  It will not be a www page.  Will
be something like https://xx.domain.com/np.cgi

Looking  for  recommendations  of  legit  places  to  get  one without
breaking the bank.

--

Thanks,
 Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com





  

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Re: [AFMUG] STL issues-

[Ken Hohhof]

Nice tripod.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 4:37 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] STL issues-

 

The engineer for station turned off STL RX side and we connected SA to 
analyzer.  We picked up at signal at 950.6MHz hitting their antenna.  The 
Mosely had one error since he reset counter yesterday.  He knows another 
station is using 950.625MHz higher up on Franklin's...Is going to work with 
them on polarity and maybe moving antenna to side of building to shield it.  
The radio folks brought a KP antenna for the sweep out side.   I had my TY-900 
but he said he liked using his due to narrow beam...he is paying us so I said 
fine.   

 

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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

[Bill Prince]

  
  
and I do.

bp



On 2/21/2020 12:36 PM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
That’s like saying I love all my wives
  equally.
 
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Steve
  Jones
  Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:25 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max
  STA performance
 

  i worry about both equally

 

  
On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:10 PM Ken
  Hohhof  wrote:
  
  

  
By
  performance hit are you referring to the frame
  period?  Which is a tradeoff between throughput and
  latency, so which are you worried about most?
 
Or
  did I misunderstand the issue.
 
From:
  AF 
  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:46 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in
  3.5Ghz max STA performance
 

  the
hit is on the 450 not the LTE though to sync?
  
what
  kind of a performance hit is it?
  

 

  
On
  Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 1:29 PM Ryan Ray 
  wrote:
  
  

  Yes
sir. We do it with others running 3.65 Huawei
LTE. Works great. 

 

  
On
  Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 11:11 AM Jason McKemie
  
  wrote:
  
  

  Is
it possible to sync Cambium with LTE gear?

 

  
On
  Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:36 PM Mike Hammett
  
  wrote:
  
  

  
There's
also advantage to coexistence
groups, though as I understand it,
that's a SAS value add and not a
requirement.

   


  As
  I understand it, a group of
  operators could form a
  co-existence group to ignore each
  other when determining
  availability. This would be used
  when a group of operators agreed
  to the same timing,
  uplink\downlink, etc. settings so
  that they didn't interfere with
  each other...  like how GPS-based
  operators coexist today.
  


  -
  Mike
Hammett
  Intelligent
Computing Solutions
  
  Midwest
Internet Exchange
  
  The
Brothers WISP
  


  
  
  
  

Re: [AFMUG] forrest- cambium style sync

[Josh Luthman]

Why would you need Canopy sync for 1000 and 2000?  Just be sure to set the
software settings appropriately.  Or use the built in GPS.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 4:30 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Im hoping to find out we can just stock these and not have to have the
> canopy sync ones for the 1k/2k
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 3:25 PM Matt  wrote:
>
>> Gigabit Ethernet is much more stable with Cambium Sync.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:48 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> >
>> > “Canopy sync” is the once per second interruption of power.  “Cambium
>> sync” also goes over power but uses some magical method that is only known
>> to a select few.  It doesn’t create inductive spikes that can cause
>> Ethernet errors in adjacent cables so I’d use it instead of Canopy sync
>> wherever you can.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > If I remember right, any 450 series APs with 48V gigabit power can
>> accept Cambium sync.  So that means 450i and 450m.  I believe 450i can also
>> use Canopy sync but 450m requires Cambium sync.  Or instead of either
>> power-over-sync method you can use AUX port sync.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Someone else will have to reply about ePMP and specifically ePMP 3000.
>> I thought ePMP used pucks?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
>> > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:33 PM
>> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] forrest- cambium style sync
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Is Cambium sync cmm4?  Epmp has an option for cmm3 vs cmm4.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 450i and epmp3000 would certainly be Cambium style.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Josh Luthman
>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>> > 1100 Wayne St
>> > Suite 1337
>> > Troy, OH 45373
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:50 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > POWERINJECTOR PLUS CAMBIUM-STYLE SYNC
>> >
>> > Looking to standardize. This is the only one that will provide sync to
>> epmp 3k?
>> >
>> > it will also do 450i?
>> >
>> > Will it do epmp 1k/2k at all?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] forrest- cambium style sync

[Steve Jones]

Im hoping to find out we can just stock these and not have to have the
canopy sync ones for the 1k/2k

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 3:25 PM Matt  wrote:

> Gigabit Ethernet is much more stable with Cambium Sync.
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:48 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> >
> > “Canopy sync” is the once per second interruption of power.  “Cambium
> sync” also goes over power but uses some magical method that is only known
> to a select few.  It doesn’t create inductive spikes that can cause
> Ethernet errors in adjacent cables so I’d use it instead of Canopy sync
> wherever you can.
> >
> >
> >
> > If I remember right, any 450 series APs with 48V gigabit power can
> accept Cambium sync.  So that means 450i and 450m.  I believe 450i can also
> use Canopy sync but 450m requires Cambium sync.  Or instead of either
> power-over-sync method you can use AUX port sync.
> >
> >
> >
> > Someone else will have to reply about ePMP and specifically ePMP 3000.
> I thought ePMP used pucks?
> >
> >
> >
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:33 PM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] forrest- cambium style sync
> >
> >
> >
> > Is Cambium sync cmm4?  Epmp has an option for cmm3 vs cmm4.
> >
> >
> >
> > 450i and epmp3000 would certainly be Cambium style.
> >
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:50 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
> >
> > POWERINJECTOR PLUS CAMBIUM-STYLE SYNC
> >
> > Looking to standardize. This is the only one that will provide sync to
> epmp 3k?
> >
> > it will also do 450i?
> >
> > Will it do epmp 1k/2k at all?
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] forrest- cambium style sync

[Matt]

Gigabit Ethernet is much more stable with Cambium Sync.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:48 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> “Canopy sync” is the once per second interruption of power.  “Cambium sync” 
> also goes over power but uses some magical method that is only known to a 
> select few.  It doesn’t create inductive spikes that can cause Ethernet 
> errors in adjacent cables so I’d use it instead of Canopy sync wherever you 
> can.
>
>
>
> If I remember right, any 450 series APs with 48V gigabit power can accept 
> Cambium sync.  So that means 450i and 450m.  I believe 450i can also use 
> Canopy sync but 450m requires Cambium sync.  Or instead of either 
> power-over-sync method you can use AUX port sync.
>
>
>
> Someone else will have to reply about ePMP and specifically ePMP 3000.  I 
> thought ePMP used pucks?
>
>
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:33 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] forrest- cambium style sync
>
>
>
> Is Cambium sync cmm4?  Epmp has an option for cmm3 vs cmm4.
>
>
>
> 450i and epmp3000 would certainly be Cambium style.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:50 PM Steve Jones  wrote:
>
> POWERINJECTOR PLUS CAMBIUM-STYLE SYNC
>
> Looking to standardize. This is the only one that will provide sync to epmp 
> 3k?
>
> it will also do 450i?
>
> Will it do epmp 1k/2k at all?
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[Ken Hohhof]

The TV show with Noah Wyle and Rebecca Romijn?  That was cancelled.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 3:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

 

It's the Liberians...



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 3:03:22 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

Always a catch. Theres got to be some underlying scam

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 3:00 PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

No catch anymore. Initially, its downfall was that the CA wasn't universally 
supported. It basically is now.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:54:10 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

I hate apple

apple sucks

garbage

 

What is the catch with letsencrypt? Nothing is free

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:53 PM Dan Spitler mailto:d...@common.net> > wrote:

Warning about long-term paid certs: Apple is going to start rejecting certs 
with expiration dates longer than 13 months: 
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/02/20/apple_shorter_cert_lifetime/

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:09 PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

I spend more time baby sitting real SSL certs (every two years at renewal) than 
Let's Encrypt...  and I have more Let's Encrypt.

 

If there's a clear, reliable way of doing Let's Encrypt...  do it.

 

If not, use a paid cert until someone else gets the bruises getting Let's 
Encrypt to work solidly on whatever you're doing with it.

 



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:04:55 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

I don't have experience with letsencrypt but a webserver software mailing
list I'm on has constant traffic about problems with certs not renewing.  It
may be specific to that software, but my gut tells me if this is something
mission critical and you don't want to monitor it for problems, just pay a
regular cert authority.  It's not a trivial amount of money, but not
Bloomberg money either.  I have too many things demanding my time already
without having to babysit website certs.

-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:41 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

On 2/21/20 11:28 AM, Larry Smith wrote:
> Mark,
> 
>Look at letsencrypt.org  .  They have free certs 
> for personal and 
> minor use.
> 


Anyone can use Let's Encrypt for anything. Personal, commercial, for profit,
not for profit, whatever you imagine.

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Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[Mike Hammett]

It's the Liberians... 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 3:03:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions 


Always a catch. Theres got to be some underlying scam 


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 3:00 PM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




No catch anymore. Initially, its downfall was that the CA wasn't universally 
supported. It basically is now. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:54:10 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions 


I hate apple 
apple sucks 
garbage 


What is the catch with letsencrypt? Nothing is free 


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:53 PM Dan Spitler < d...@common.net > wrote: 



Warning about long-term paid certs: Apple is going to start rejecting certs 
with expiration dates longer than 13 months: 
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/02/20/apple_shorter_cert_lifetime/ 


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:09 PM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I spend more time baby sitting real SSL certs (every two years at renewal) than 
Let's Encrypt... and I have more Let's Encrypt. 


If there's a clear, reliable way of doing Let's Encrypt... do it. 


If not, use a paid cert until someone else gets the bruises getting Let's 
Encrypt to work solidly on whatever you're doing with it. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:04:55 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions 

I don't have experience with letsencrypt but a webserver software mailing 
list I'm on has constant traffic about problems with certs not renewing. It 
may be specific to that software, but my gut tells me if this is something 
mission critical and you don't want to monitor it for problems, just pay a 
regular cert authority. It's not a trivial amount of money, but not 
Bloomberg money either. I have too many things demanding my time already 
without having to babysit website certs. 

-Original Message- 
From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:41 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions 

On 2/21/20 11:28 AM, Larry Smith wrote: 
> Mark, 
> 
> Look at letsencrypt.org . They have free certs for personal and 
> minor use. 
> 


Anyone can use Let's Encrypt for anything. Personal, commercial, for profit, 
not for profit, whatever you imagine. 

-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[Zach Underwood]

It really is free, no real downside. It is fully automated system, you can
get/renew a cert in sec.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 4:05 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Always a catch. Theres got to be some underlying scam
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 3:00 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> No catch anymore. Initially, its downfall was that the CA wasn't
>> universally supported. It basically is now.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Friday, February 21, 2020 2:54:10 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions
>>
>> I hate apple
>> apple sucks
>> garbage
>>
>> What is the catch with letsencrypt? Nothing is free
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:53 PM Dan Spitler  wrote:
>>
>>> Warning about long-term paid certs: Apple is going to start rejecting
>>> certs with expiration dates longer than 13 months:
>>> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/02/20/apple_shorter_cert_lifetime/
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:09 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>>
 I spend more time baby sitting real SSL certs (every two years at
 renewal) than Let's Encrypt...  and I have more Let's Encrypt.

 If there's a clear, reliable way of doing Let's Encrypt...  do it.

 If not, use a paid cert until someone else gets the bruises getting
 Let's Encrypt to work solidly on whatever you're doing with it.



 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 
 
 
 Midwest Internet Exchange 
 
 
 
 The Brothers WISP 
 


 
 --
 *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
 *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
 *Sent: *Friday, February 21, 2020 2:04:55 PM
 *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

 I don't have experience with letsencrypt but a webserver software
 mailing
 list I'm on has constant traffic about problems with certs not
 renewing.  It
 may be specific to that software, but my gut tells me if this is
 something
 mission critical and you don't want to monitor it for problems, just
 pay a
 regular cert authority.  It's not a trivial amount of money, but not
 Bloomberg money either.  I have too many things demanding my time
 already
 without having to babysit website certs.

 -Original Message-
 From: AF  On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
 Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:41 PM
 To: af@af.afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

 On 2/21/20 11:28 AM, Larry Smith wrote:
 > Mark,
 >
 >Look at letsencrypt.org.  They have free certs for personal and
 > minor use.
 >


 Anyone can use Let's Encrypt for anything. Personal, commercial, for
 profit,
 not for profit, whatever you imagine.

 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



 --
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 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[Steve Jones]

Always a catch. Theres got to be some underlying scam

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 3:00 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> No catch anymore. Initially, its downfall was that the CA wasn't
> universally supported. It basically is now.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, February 21, 2020 2:54:10 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions
>
> I hate apple
> apple sucks
> garbage
>
> What is the catch with letsencrypt? Nothing is free
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:53 PM Dan Spitler  wrote:
>
>> Warning about long-term paid certs: Apple is going to start rejecting
>> certs with expiration dates longer than 13 months:
>> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/02/20/apple_shorter_cert_lifetime/
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:09 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> I spend more time baby sitting real SSL certs (every two years at
>>> renewal) than Let's Encrypt...  and I have more Let's Encrypt.
>>>
>>> If there's a clear, reliable way of doing Let's Encrypt...  do it.
>>>
>>> If not, use a paid cert until someone else gets the bruises getting
>>> Let's Encrypt to work solidly on whatever you're doing with it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> *Sent: *Friday, February 21, 2020 2:04:55 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions
>>>
>>> I don't have experience with letsencrypt but a webserver software mailing
>>> list I'm on has constant traffic about problems with certs not
>>> renewing.  It
>>> may be specific to that software, but my gut tells me if this is
>>> something
>>> mission critical and you don't want to monitor it for problems, just pay
>>> a
>>> regular cert authority.  It's not a trivial amount of money, but not
>>> Bloomberg money either.  I have too many things demanding my time already
>>> without having to babysit website certs.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
>>> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:41 PM
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions
>>>
>>> On 2/21/20 11:28 AM, Larry Smith wrote:
>>> > Mark,
>>> >
>>> >Look at letsencrypt.org.  They have free certs for personal and
>>> > minor use.
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyone can use Let's Encrypt for anything. Personal, commercial, for
>>> profit,
>>> not for profit, whatever you imagine.
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
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>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[Mike Hammett]

No catch anymore. Initially, its downfall was that the CA wasn't universally 
supported. It basically is now. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:54:10 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions 


I hate apple 
apple sucks 
garbage 


What is the catch with letsencrypt? Nothing is free 


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:53 PM Dan Spitler < d...@common.net > wrote: 



Warning about long-term paid certs: Apple is going to start rejecting certs 
with expiration dates longer than 13 months: 
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/02/20/apple_shorter_cert_lifetime/ 


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:09 PM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I spend more time baby sitting real SSL certs (every two years at renewal) than 
Let's Encrypt... and I have more Let's Encrypt. 


If there's a clear, reliable way of doing Let's Encrypt... do it. 


If not, use a paid cert until someone else gets the bruises getting Let's 
Encrypt to work solidly on whatever you're doing with it. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:04:55 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions 

I don't have experience with letsencrypt but a webserver software mailing 
list I'm on has constant traffic about problems with certs not renewing. It 
may be specific to that software, but my gut tells me if this is something 
mission critical and you don't want to monitor it for problems, just pay a 
regular cert authority. It's not a trivial amount of money, but not 
Bloomberg money either. I have too many things demanding my time already 
without having to babysit website certs. 

-Original Message- 
From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:41 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions 

On 2/21/20 11:28 AM, Larry Smith wrote: 
> Mark, 
> 
> Look at letsencrypt.org . They have free certs for personal and 
> minor use. 
> 


Anyone can use Let's Encrypt for anything. Personal, commercial, for profit, 
not for profit, whatever you imagine. 

-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[Steve Jones]

I hate apple
apple sucks
garbage

What is the catch with letsencrypt? Nothing is free

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:53 PM Dan Spitler  wrote:

> Warning about long-term paid certs: Apple is going to start rejecting
> certs with expiration dates longer than 13 months:
> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/02/20/apple_shorter_cert_lifetime/
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:09 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I spend more time baby sitting real SSL certs (every two years at
>> renewal) than Let's Encrypt...  and I have more Let's Encrypt.
>>
>> If there's a clear, reliable way of doing Let's Encrypt...  do it.
>>
>> If not, use a paid cert until someone else gets the bruises getting Let's
>> Encrypt to work solidly on whatever you're doing with it.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Friday, February 21, 2020 2:04:55 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions
>>
>> I don't have experience with letsencrypt but a webserver software mailing
>> list I'm on has constant traffic about problems with certs not renewing.
>> It
>> may be specific to that software, but my gut tells me if this is something
>> mission critical and you don't want to monitor it for problems, just pay a
>> regular cert authority.  It's not a trivial amount of money, but not
>> Bloomberg money either.  I have too many things demanding my time already
>> without having to babysit website certs.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
>> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:41 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions
>>
>> On 2/21/20 11:28 AM, Larry Smith wrote:
>> > Mark,
>> >
>> >Look at letsencrypt.org.  They have free certs for personal and
>> > minor use.
>> >
>>
>>
>> Anyone can use Let's Encrypt for anything. Personal, commercial, for
>> profit,
>> not for profit, whatever you imagine.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[Mike Hammett]

Mother... Fucker... 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Dan Spitler"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:52:51 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions 


Warning about long-term paid certs: Apple is going to start rejecting certs 
with expiration dates longer than 13 months: 
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/02/20/apple_shorter_cert_lifetime/ 


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:09 PM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I spend more time baby sitting real SSL certs (every two years at renewal) than 
Let's Encrypt... and I have more Let's Encrypt. 


If there's a clear, reliable way of doing Let's Encrypt... do it. 


If not, use a paid cert until someone else gets the bruises getting Let's 
Encrypt to work solidly on whatever you're doing with it. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:04:55 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions 

I don't have experience with letsencrypt but a webserver software mailing 
list I'm on has constant traffic about problems with certs not renewing. It 
may be specific to that software, but my gut tells me if this is something 
mission critical and you don't want to monitor it for problems, just pay a 
regular cert authority. It's not a trivial amount of money, but not 
Bloomberg money either. I have too many things demanding my time already 
without having to babysit website certs. 

-Original Message- 
From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:41 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions 

On 2/21/20 11:28 AM, Larry Smith wrote: 
> Mark, 
> 
> Look at letsencrypt.org . They have free certs for personal and 
> minor use. 
> 


Anyone can use Let's Encrypt for anything. Personal, commercial, for profit, 
not for profit, whatever you imagine. 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



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Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[Dan Spitler]

Warning about long-term paid certs: Apple is going to start rejecting certs
with expiration dates longer than 13 months:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/02/20/apple_shorter_cert_lifetime/

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:09 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I spend more time baby sitting real SSL certs (every two years at renewal)
> than Let's Encrypt...  and I have more Let's Encrypt.
>
> If there's a clear, reliable way of doing Let's Encrypt...  do it.
>
> If not, use a paid cert until someone else gets the bruises getting Let's
> Encrypt to work solidly on whatever you're doing with it.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, February 21, 2020 2:04:55 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions
>
> I don't have experience with letsencrypt but a webserver software mailing
> list I'm on has constant traffic about problems with certs not renewing.
> It
> may be specific to that software, but my gut tells me if this is something
> mission critical and you don't want to monitor it for problems, just pay a
> regular cert authority.  It's not a trivial amount of money, but not
> Bloomberg money either.  I have too many things demanding my time already
> without having to babysit website certs.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:41 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions
>
> On 2/21/20 11:28 AM, Larry Smith wrote:
> > Mark,
> >
> >Look at letsencrypt.org.  They have free certs for personal and
> > minor use.
> >
>
>
> Anyone can use Let's Encrypt for anything. Personal, commercial, for
> profit,
> not for profit, whatever you imagine.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 450 vs LTE NLoS

[castarritt .]

I am planning to avoid any nlos installs after what happened with 3.65
WiMAX, which worked great for us right until there was the slightest hint
of noise, at which point it all fell apart.  I predict nlos on CBRS GAA to
also become a crap shoot once everyone starts deploying their gear.  Even
the PAL holders are only getting something like a -96 dBm "guaranteed"
noise floor.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:32 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Has anyone done any comparison as to how the 450 compares to LTE with
> regards to usable signal in a NLoS situation?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] forrest- cambium style sync

[Ken Hohhof]

“Canopy sync” is the once per second interruption of power.  “Cambium sync” 
also goes over power but uses some magical method that is only known to a 
select few.  It doesn’t create inductive spikes that can cause Ethernet errors 
in adjacent cables so I’d use it instead of Canopy sync wherever you can.

 

If I remember right, any 450 series APs with 48V gigabit power can accept 
Cambium sync.  So that means 450i and 450m.  I believe 450i can also use Canopy 
sync but 450m requires Cambium sync.  Or instead of either power-over-sync 
method you can use AUX port sync.

 

Someone else will have to reply about ePMP and specifically ePMP 3000.  I 
thought ePMP used pucks?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] forrest- cambium style sync

 

Is Cambium sync cmm4?  Epmp has an option for cmm3 vs cmm4.

 

450i and epmp3000 would certainly be Cambium style.

 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:50 PM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

POWERINJECTOR PLUS CAMBIUM-STYLE SYNC

Looking to standardize. This is the only one that will provide sync to epmp 3k?

it will also do 450i?

Will it do epmp 1k/2k at all?

 

-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

[Ken Hohhof]

That’s like saying I love all my wives equally.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:25 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

 

i worry about both equally

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:10 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

By performance hit are you referring to the frame period?  Which is a tradeoff 
between throughput and latency, so which are you worried about most?

 

Or did I misunderstand the issue.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:46 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

 

the hit is on the 450 not the LTE though to sync?

what kind of a performance hit is it?

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 1:29 PM Ryan Ray mailto:ryan...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Yes sir. We do it with others running 3.65 Huawei LTE. Works great. 

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 11:11 AM Jason McKemie 
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > 
wrote:

Is it possible to sync Cambium with LTE gear?

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:36 PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

There's also advantage to coexistence groups, though as I understand it, that's 
a SAS value add and not a requirement.

 

As I understand it, a group of operators could form a co-existence group to 
ignore each other when determining availability. This would be used when a 
group of operators agreed to the same timing, uplink\downlink, etc. settings so 
that they didn't interfere with each other...  like how GPS-based operators 
coexist today.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:31:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

people worry about the contiguous block issue too much. The longest you would 
go with a non contiguous grant is a day. When the sas get jiggy with each other 
at night the channels will be redistributed in contiguous blocks.

 

Getting 4 channels for a 40mhz will happen for a period, but man is that a bad 
business decision for the long term unless there is zero competition

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:34 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

The answer is a bit complicated, for example I suspect the SAS could give you a 
grant, but not at the full xmt power a 450m is capable of, so your range and 
modulation is reduced.

 

Probably nobody knows the answer.  A few WISPs who participated in ICD might 
have some idea.  But if you are asking can you count on getting 80 MHz out of a 
total 150 MHz, and also as 2 contiguous blocks, I think we know the answer.  
Even if it happened initially, that seems unlikely long term.

 

Much advertising hype in our business is based on “could it happen” rather than 
“can we count on it”.  That works with 5G because they are talking about 
everybody getting gigabit speeds but if everybody only gets 1/10 of that it’s 
still pretty damn fast.  Not sure the same applies if you talk about everybody 
getting 100 meg but most of the time it’s more like 10 meg.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of castarritt .
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

 

The other important question is if we can count on getting a contiguous 40mhz 
channel from the SAS, much less two of them to run a full cluster of 450m in 
ABAB.

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:59 AM Matt Mangriotis via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

Using 450i or 450b on the SM (client) side, a real world aggregate speed test 
can be as high as 250 Mbps. If you have cnMeudsa (450m AP) for the sector, you 
can achieve >750 Mbps (theoretically up to 1 Gbps, but I would be lying to tell 
you I have ever seen this kind of efficiency in the real world) sector capacity 
due to the Multi-User MIMO capabilities (i.e. simultaneous transmissions to up 
to 4 clients in the same time slot).

 

Running under Part 90 or Part 96 does not affect the system performance 
(provided the channel size is the same, of course).

 

Matt

 

Re: [AFMUG] forrest- cambium style sync

[Josh Luthman]

Is Cambium sync cmm4?  Epmp has an option for cmm3 vs cmm4.

450i and epmp3000 would certainly be Cambium style.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:50 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> POWERINJECTOR PLUS CAMBIUM-STYLE SYNC
> Looking to standardize. This is the only one that will provide sync to
> epmp 3k?
> it will also do 450i?
> Will it do epmp 1k/2k at all?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] 450 vs LTE NLoS

[Jason McKemie]

Has anyone done any comparison as to how the 450 compares to LTE with
regards to usable signal in a NLoS situation?
-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

[Steve Jones]

i worry about both equally

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:10 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> By performance hit are you referring to the frame period?  Which is a
> tradeoff between throughput and latency, so which are you worried about
> most?
>
>
>
> Or did I misunderstand the issue.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 1:46 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>
>
>
> the hit is on the 450 not the LTE though to sync?
>
> what kind of a performance hit is it?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 1:29 PM Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
> Yes sir. We do it with others running 3.65 Huawei LTE. Works great.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 11:11 AM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
> Is it possible to sync Cambium with LTE gear?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:36 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> There's also advantage to coexistence groups, though as I understand it,
> that's a SAS value add and not a requirement.
>
>
>
> As I understand it, a group of operators could form a co-existence group
> to ignore each other when determining availability. This would be used when
> a group of operators agreed to the same timing, uplink\downlink, etc.
> settings so that they didn't interfere with each other...  like how
> GPS-based operators coexist today.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, February 21, 2020 12:31:28 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>
> people worry about the contiguous block issue too much. The longest you
> would go with a non contiguous grant is a day. When the sas get jiggy with
> each other at night the channels will be redistributed in contiguous blocks.
>
>
>
> Getting 4 channels for a 40mhz will happen for a period, but man is that a
> bad business decision for the long term unless there is zero competition
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:34 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> The answer is a bit complicated, for example I suspect the SAS could give
> you a grant, but not at the full xmt power a 450m is capable of, so your
> range and modulation is reduced.
>
>
>
> Probably nobody knows the answer.  A few WISPs who participated in ICD
> might have some idea.  But if you are asking can you count on getting 80
> MHz out of a total 150 MHz, and also as 2 contiguous blocks, I think we
> know the answer.  Even if it happened initially, that seems unlikely long
> term.
>
>
>
> Much advertising hype in our business is based on “could it happen” rather
> than “can we count on it”.  That works with 5G because they are talking
> about everybody getting gigabit speeds but if everybody only gets 1/10 of
> that it’s still pretty damn fast.  Not sure the same applies if you talk
> about everybody getting 100 meg but most of the time it’s more like 10 meg.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt .
> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 9:11 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>
>
>
> The other important question is if we can count on getting a
> contiguous 40mhz channel from the SAS, much less two of them to run a full
> cluster of 450m in ABAB.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:59 AM Matt Mangriotis via AF 
> wrote:
>
> Using 450i or 450b on the SM (client) side, a real world aggregate speed
> test can be as high as 250 Mbps. If you have cnMeudsa (450m AP) for the
> sector, you can achieve >750 Mbps (theoretically up to 1 Gbps, but I would
> be lying to tell you I have ever seen this kind of efficiency in the real
> world) sector capacity due to the Multi-User MIMO capabilities (i.e.
> simultaneous transmissions to up to 4 clients in the same time slot).
>
>
>
> Running under Part 90 or Part 96 does not affect the system performance
> (provided the channel size is the same, of course).
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Peter Kranz via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2020 6:31 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Cc:* Peter Kranz 
> *Subject:* [ External ] [AFMUG] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>
>
>
> What is the real world expected station performance in a TCP speedtest
> running a 40Mhz channel with a 450m running 

Re: [AFMUG] 3.5Ghz FCC Auction 105

[Ken Hohhof]

Wouldn’t it be nice if all these billionaires and big companies launching 
fleets of LEO satellites would buy up some of these licenses and then sublease 
or disaggregate them or whatever the term is?

 

It wouldn’t work to buy them and let the spectrum stay GAA (like buying doves 
to set them free), because then the FCC would refuse to renew the licenses in 
10 years.  Can’t let them be a public resource, must generate profits, in order 
to maximize value of licenses and revenue from auctions.

 

I have no idea if acquiring county/PEA/CMA wide licenses and then breaking them 
up and leasing them out to small companies would be profitable.  It would 
probably piss off the big cellcos though which would be nice.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:43 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.5Ghz FCC Auction 105

 

I still think its going to venture capitalists looking for long term recoveries

 

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 1:30 PM Dev mailto:d...@logicalwebhost.com> > wrote:

Which eliminates some very large percentage of the WISP’s in small markets who 
would be most able to help with the last mile. They’d be laughed out a bank, 
assuming their bank knows what spectrum is at all. 

So their option would be to hope no one bids?

> On Feb 21, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Seth Mattinen   > wrote:
> 
> On 2/21/20 10:13 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>> look at cook county. crazy. but dont forget there are two bidding credits we 
>> are eligible for
> 
> 
> Which are applied to a winning bid, you still have to wire the FCC the full 
> amount at the beginning to participate.
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com  
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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AF@af.afmug.com  
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

[Ken Hohhof]

By performance hit are you referring to the frame period?  Which is a tradeoff 
between throughput and latency, so which are you worried about most?

 

Or did I misunderstand the issue.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:46 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

 

the hit is on the 450 not the LTE though to sync?

what kind of a performance hit is it?

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 1:29 PM Ryan Ray mailto:ryan...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Yes sir. We do it with others running 3.65 Huawei LTE. Works great. 

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 11:11 AM Jason McKemie 
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > 
wrote:

Is it possible to sync Cambium with LTE gear?

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:36 PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

There's also advantage to coexistence groups, though as I understand it, that's 
a SAS value add and not a requirement.

 

As I understand it, a group of operators could form a co-existence group to 
ignore each other when determining availability. This would be used when a 
group of operators agreed to the same timing, uplink\downlink, etc. settings so 
that they didn't interfere with each other...  like how GPS-based operators 
coexist today.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:31:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

people worry about the contiguous block issue too much. The longest you would 
go with a non contiguous grant is a day. When the sas get jiggy with each other 
at night the channels will be redistributed in contiguous blocks.

 

Getting 4 channels for a 40mhz will happen for a period, but man is that a bad 
business decision for the long term unless there is zero competition

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:34 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

The answer is a bit complicated, for example I suspect the SAS could give you a 
grant, but not at the full xmt power a 450m is capable of, so your range and 
modulation is reduced.

 

Probably nobody knows the answer.  A few WISPs who participated in ICD might 
have some idea.  But if you are asking can you count on getting 80 MHz out of a 
total 150 MHz, and also as 2 contiguous blocks, I think we know the answer.  
Even if it happened initially, that seems unlikely long term.

 

Much advertising hype in our business is based on “could it happen” rather than 
“can we count on it”.  That works with 5G because they are talking about 
everybody getting gigabit speeds but if everybody only gets 1/10 of that it’s 
still pretty damn fast.  Not sure the same applies if you talk about everybody 
getting 100 meg but most of the time it’s more like 10 meg.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of castarritt .
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

 

The other important question is if we can count on getting a contiguous 40mhz 
channel from the SAS, much less two of them to run a full cluster of 450m in 
ABAB.

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:59 AM Matt Mangriotis via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

Using 450i or 450b on the SM (client) side, a real world aggregate speed test 
can be as high as 250 Mbps. If you have cnMeudsa (450m AP) for the sector, you 
can achieve >750 Mbps (theoretically up to 1 Gbps, but I would be lying to tell 
you I have ever seen this kind of efficiency in the real world) sector capacity 
due to the Multi-User MIMO capabilities (i.e. simultaneous transmissions to up 
to 4 clients in the same time slot).

 

Running under Part 90 or Part 96 does not affect the system performance 
(provided the channel size is the same, of course).

 

Matt

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 6:31 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: Peter Kranz mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com> >
Subject: [ External ] [AFMUG] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

 

What is the real world expected station performance in a TCP speedtest running 
a 40Mhz channel with a 

Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[Mike Hammett]

I spend more time baby sitting real SSL certs (every two years at renewal) than 
Let's Encrypt... and I have more Let's Encrypt. 


If there's a clear, reliable way of doing Let's Encrypt... do it. 


If not, use a paid cert until someone else gets the bruises getting Let's 
Encrypt to work solidly on whatever you're doing with it. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:04:55 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions 

I don't have experience with letsencrypt but a webserver software mailing 
list I'm on has constant traffic about problems with certs not renewing. It 
may be specific to that software, but my gut tells me if this is something 
mission critical and you don't want to monitor it for problems, just pay a 
regular cert authority. It's not a trivial amount of money, but not 
Bloomberg money either. I have too many things demanding my time already 
without having to babysit website certs. 

-Original Message- 
From: AF  On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:41 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions 

On 2/21/20 11:28 AM, Larry Smith wrote: 
> Mark, 
> 
> Look at letsencrypt.org. They have free certs for personal and 
> minor use. 
> 


Anyone can use Let's Encrypt for anything. Personal, commercial, for profit, 
not for profit, whatever you imagine. 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[Ken Hohhof]

I don't have experience with letsencrypt but a webserver software mailing
list I'm on has constant traffic about problems with certs not renewing.  It
may be specific to that software, but my gut tells me if this is something
mission critical and you don't want to monitor it for problems, just pay a
regular cert authority.  It's not a trivial amount of money, but not
Bloomberg money either.  I have too many things demanding my time already
without having to babysit website certs.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:41 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

On 2/21/20 11:28 AM, Larry Smith wrote:
> Mark,
> 
>Look at letsencrypt.org.  They have free certs for personal and 
> minor use.
> 


Anyone can use Let's Encrypt for anything. Personal, commercial, for profit,
not for profit, whatever you imagine.

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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[AFMUG] forrest- cambium style sync

[Steve Jones]

POWERINJECTOR PLUS CAMBIUM-STYLE SYNC
Looking to standardize. This is the only one that will provide sync to epmp
3k?
it will also do 450i?
Will it do epmp 1k/2k at all?
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

[Steve Jones]

the hit is on the 450 not the LTE though to sync?
what kind of a performance hit is it?

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 1:29 PM Ryan Ray  wrote:

> Yes sir. We do it with others running 3.65 Huawei LTE. Works great.
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 11:11 AM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to sync Cambium with LTE gear?
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:36 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> There's also advantage to coexistence groups, though as I understand it,
>>> that's a SAS value add and not a requirement.
>>>
>>> As I understand it, a group of operators could form a co-existence group
>>> to ignore each other when determining availability. This would be used when
>>> a group of operators agreed to the same timing, uplink\downlink, etc.
>>> settings so that they didn't interfere with each other...  like how
>>> GPS-based operators coexist today.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> *Sent: *Friday, February 21, 2020 12:31:28 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>>>
>>> people worry about the contiguous block issue too much. The longest you
>>> would go with a non contiguous grant is a day. When the sas get jiggy with
>>> each other at night the channels will be redistributed in contiguous blocks.
>>>
>>> Getting 4 channels for a 40mhz will happen for a period, but man is that
>>> a bad business decision for the long term unless there is zero competition
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:34 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
 The answer is a bit complicated, for example I suspect the SAS could
 give you a grant, but not at the full xmt power a 450m is capable of, so
 your range and modulation is reduced.



 Probably nobody knows the answer.  A few WISPs who participated in ICD
 might have some idea.  But if you are asking can you count on getting 80
 MHz out of a total 150 MHz, and also as 2 contiguous blocks, I think we
 know the answer.  Even if it happened initially, that seems unlikely long
 term.



 Much advertising hype in our business is based on “could it happen”
 rather than “can we count on it”.  That works with 5G because they are
 talking about everybody getting gigabit speeds but if everybody only gets
 1/10 of that it’s still pretty damn fast.  Not sure the same applies if you
 talk about everybody getting 100 meg but most of the time it’s more like 10
 meg.





 *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt .
 *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 9:11 AM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance



 The other important question is if we can count on getting a
 contiguous 40mhz channel from the SAS, much less two of them to run a full
 cluster of 450m in ABAB.



 On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:59 AM Matt Mangriotis via AF 
 wrote:

 Using 450i or 450b on the SM (client) side, a real world aggregate
 speed test can be as high as 250 Mbps. If you have cnMeudsa (450m AP) for
 the sector, you can achieve >750 Mbps (theoretically up to 1 Gbps, but I
 would be lying to tell you I have ever seen this kind of efficiency in the
 real world) sector capacity due to the Multi-User MIMO capabilities (i.e.
 simultaneous transmissions to up to 4 clients in the same time slot).



 Running under Part 90 or Part 96 does not affect the system performance
 (provided the channel size is the same, of course).



 Matt



 *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Peter Kranz via AF
 *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2020 6:31 PM
 *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
 *Cc:* Peter Kranz 
 *Subject:* [ External ] [AFMUG] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance



 What is the real world expected station performance in a TCP speedtest
 running a 40Mhz channel with a 450m running the CBRS software?




 *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com
 

Re: [AFMUG] 3.5Ghz FCC Auction 105

[Steve Jones]

I still think its going to venture capitalists looking for long term
recoveries


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 1:30 PM Dev  wrote:

> Which eliminates some very large percentage of the WISP’s in small markets
> who would be most able to help with the last mile. They’d be laughed out a
> bank, assuming their bank knows what spectrum is at all.
>
> So their option would be to hope no one bids?
>
> > On Feb 21, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> >
> > On 2/21/20 10:13 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> >> look at cook county. crazy. but dont forget there are two bidding
> credits we are eligible for
> >
> >
> > Which are applied to a winning bid, you still have to wire the FCC the
> full amount at the beginning to participate.
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/21/20 11:28 AM, Larry Smith wrote:

Mark,

   Look at letsencrypt.org.  They have free certs for personal and
minor use.




Anyone can use Let's Encrypt for anything. Personal, commercial, for 
profit, not for profit, whatever you imagine.


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Re: [AFMUG] 3.5Ghz FCC Auction 105

[Dev]

Which eliminates some very large percentage of the WISP’s in small markets who 
would be most able to help with the last mile. They’d be laughed out a bank, 
assuming their bank knows what spectrum is at all. 

So their option would be to hope no one bids?

> On Feb 21, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> 
> On 2/21/20 10:13 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>> look at cook county. crazy. but dont forget there are two bidding credits we 
>> are eligible for
> 
> 
> Which are applied to a winning bid, you still have to wire the FCC the full 
> amount at the beginning to participate.
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[Lewis Bergman]

Get a wildcard from letsencrypt for free or use its cli tools to have your
script generate a cert for each page on the fly.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 1:25 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> I need to get a security certificate for a web page.  This is going to
> be  for  a single page for new customers to enter payment information.
> Not sure what I need.  I've seen prices all over the place.
>
> This  will  be a CGI generated page.  It will not be a www page.  Will
> be something like https://xx.domain.com/np.cgi
>
> Looking  for  recommendations  of  legit  places  to  get  one without
> breaking the bank.
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

[Ryan Ray]

Yes sir. We do it with others running 3.65 Huawei LTE. Works great.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 11:11 AM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Is it possible to sync Cambium with LTE gear?
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:36 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> There's also advantage to coexistence groups, though as I understand it,
>> that's a SAS value add and not a requirement.
>>
>> As I understand it, a group of operators could form a co-existence group
>> to ignore each other when determining availability. This would be used when
>> a group of operators agreed to the same timing, uplink\downlink, etc.
>> settings so that they didn't interfere with each other...  like how
>> GPS-based operators coexist today.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Friday, February 21, 2020 12:31:28 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>>
>> people worry about the contiguous block issue too much. The longest you
>> would go with a non contiguous grant is a day. When the sas get jiggy with
>> each other at night the channels will be redistributed in contiguous blocks.
>>
>> Getting 4 channels for a 40mhz will happen for a period, but man is that
>> a bad business decision for the long term unless there is zero competition
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:34 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> The answer is a bit complicated, for example I suspect the SAS could
>>> give you a grant, but not at the full xmt power a 450m is capable of, so
>>> your range and modulation is reduced.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Probably nobody knows the answer.  A few WISPs who participated in ICD
>>> might have some idea.  But if you are asking can you count on getting 80
>>> MHz out of a total 150 MHz, and also as 2 contiguous blocks, I think we
>>> know the answer.  Even if it happened initially, that seems unlikely long
>>> term.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Much advertising hype in our business is based on “could it happen”
>>> rather than “can we count on it”.  That works with 5G because they are
>>> talking about everybody getting gigabit speeds but if everybody only gets
>>> 1/10 of that it’s still pretty damn fast.  Not sure the same applies if you
>>> talk about everybody getting 100 meg but most of the time it’s more like 10
>>> meg.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt .
>>> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 9:11 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The other important question is if we can count on getting a
>>> contiguous 40mhz channel from the SAS, much less two of them to run a full
>>> cluster of 450m in ABAB.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:59 AM Matt Mangriotis via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Using 450i or 450b on the SM (client) side, a real world aggregate speed
>>> test can be as high as 250 Mbps. If you have cnMeudsa (450m AP) for the
>>> sector, you can achieve >750 Mbps (theoretically up to 1 Gbps, but I would
>>> be lying to tell you I have ever seen this kind of efficiency in the real
>>> world) sector capacity due to the Multi-User MIMO capabilities (i.e.
>>> simultaneous transmissions to up to 4 clients in the same time slot).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Running under Part 90 or Part 96 does not affect the system performance
>>> (provided the channel size is the same, of course).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Peter Kranz via AF
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2020 6:31 PM
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>>> *Cc:* Peter Kranz 
>>> *Subject:* [ External ] [AFMUG] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What is the real world expected station performance in a TCP speedtest
>>> running a 40Mhz channel with a 450m running the CBRS software?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com
>>> 
>>> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
>>> Mobile: 510-207-
>>> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[Larry Smith]

Mark,

  Look at letsencrypt.org.  They have free certs for personal and
minor use.

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Fri February 21 2020 13:24, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:
> I need to get a security certificate for a web page.  This is going to
> be  for  a single page for new customers to enter payment information.
> Not sure what I need.  I've seen prices all over the place.
>
> This  will  be a CGI generated page.  It will not be a www page.  Will
> be something like https://xx.domain.com/np.cgi
>
> Looking  for  recommendations  of  legit  places  to  get  one without
> breaking the bank.
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.Myakka.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[David Sovereen via AF]

Hi Mark,

Use Let’s Encrypt.  https://letsencrypt.org . 
Certificates are free and widely accepted.  Lots of scripts available that 
automate renewals (certificates are good for 90 days, so should be renewed 
every 75 days or so).

David Sovereen
 
Mercury Network Corporation
2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax
 
Telephone  |  Internet  |  Hosting
 
david.sover...@mercury.net 
www.mercury.net 


> On Feb 21, 2020, at 2:24 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies  
> wrote:
> 
> I need to get a security certificate for a web page.  This is going to
> be  for  a single page for new customers to enter payment information.
> Not sure what I need.  I've seen prices all over the place.
> 
> This  will  be a CGI generated page.  It will not be a www page.  Will
> be something like https://xx.domain.com/np.cgi
> 
> Looking  for  recommendations  of  legit  places  to  get  one without
> breaking the bank.
> 
> --
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> 
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.Myakka.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] Security Certificate Questions

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

I need to get a security certificate for a web page.  This is going to
be  for  a single page for new customers to enter payment information.
Not sure what I need.  I've seen prices all over the place.

This  will  be a CGI generated page.  It will not be a www page.  Will
be something like https://xx.domain.com/np.cgi

Looking  for  recommendations  of  legit  places  to  get  one without
breaking the bank.

--

Thanks,
 Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com


-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

[Jason McKemie]

Is it possible to sync Cambium with LTE gear?

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:36 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> There's also advantage to coexistence groups, though as I understand it,
> that's a SAS value add and not a requirement.
>
> As I understand it, a group of operators could form a co-existence group
> to ignore each other when determining availability. This would be used when
> a group of operators agreed to the same timing, uplink\downlink, etc.
> settings so that they didn't interfere with each other...  like how
> GPS-based operators coexist today.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, February 21, 2020 12:31:28 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>
> people worry about the contiguous block issue too much. The longest you
> would go with a non contiguous grant is a day. When the sas get jiggy with
> each other at night the channels will be redistributed in contiguous blocks.
>
> Getting 4 channels for a 40mhz will happen for a period, but man is that a
> bad business decision for the long term unless there is zero competition
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:34 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> The answer is a bit complicated, for example I suspect the SAS could give
>> you a grant, but not at the full xmt power a 450m is capable of, so your
>> range and modulation is reduced.
>>
>>
>>
>> Probably nobody knows the answer.  A few WISPs who participated in ICD
>> might have some idea.  But if you are asking can you count on getting 80
>> MHz out of a total 150 MHz, and also as 2 contiguous blocks, I think we
>> know the answer.  Even if it happened initially, that seems unlikely long
>> term.
>>
>>
>>
>> Much advertising hype in our business is based on “could it happen”
>> rather than “can we count on it”.  That works with 5G because they are
>> talking about everybody getting gigabit speeds but if everybody only gets
>> 1/10 of that it’s still pretty damn fast.  Not sure the same applies if you
>> talk about everybody getting 100 meg but most of the time it’s more like 10
>> meg.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt .
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 9:11 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>>
>>
>>
>> The other important question is if we can count on getting a
>> contiguous 40mhz channel from the SAS, much less two of them to run a full
>> cluster of 450m in ABAB.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:59 AM Matt Mangriotis via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Using 450i or 450b on the SM (client) side, a real world aggregate speed
>> test can be as high as 250 Mbps. If you have cnMeudsa (450m AP) for the
>> sector, you can achieve >750 Mbps (theoretically up to 1 Gbps, but I would
>> be lying to tell you I have ever seen this kind of efficiency in the real
>> world) sector capacity due to the Multi-User MIMO capabilities (i.e.
>> simultaneous transmissions to up to 4 clients in the same time slot).
>>
>>
>>
>> Running under Part 90 or Part 96 does not affect the system performance
>> (provided the channel size is the same, of course).
>>
>>
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Peter Kranz via AF
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2020 6:31 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Cc:* Peter Kranz 
>> *Subject:* [ External ] [AFMUG] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>>
>>
>>
>> What is the real world expected station performance in a TCP speedtest
>> running a 40Mhz channel with a 450m running the CBRS software?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com
>> 
>> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
>> Mobile: 510-207-
>> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing 

Re: [AFMUG] 3.5Ghz FCC Auction 105

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/21/20 10:33 AM, Jon Langeler wrote:

How does a bidding credit work? What percent does is save?



It's applied to a winning bid (not upfront) so during the bidding 
process your $1 is the same as AT's $1.


The rules for auction 105 aren't out yet but it should be like before 
there with a %15 and 25% small business credit, and a rural credit. Take 
a look at auction 102 for an example: 
https://www.fcc.gov/auction/102/factsheet


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Re: [AFMUG] 3.5Ghz FCC Auction 105

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/21/20 10:13 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
look at cook county. crazy. but dont forget there are two bidding 
credits we are eligible for



Which are applied to a winning bid, you still have to wire the FCC the 
full amount at the beginning to participate.


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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

[Mike Hammett]

There's also advantage to coexistence groups, though as I understand it, that's 
a SAS value add and not a requirement. 


As I understand it, a group of operators could form a co-existence group to 
ignore each other when determining availability. This would be used when a 
group of operators agreed to the same timing, uplink\downlink, etc. settings so 
that they didn't interfere with each other... like how GPS-based operators 
coexist today. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 12:31:28 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance 


people worry about the contiguous block issue too much. The longest you would 
go with a non contiguous grant is a day. When the sas get jiggy with each other 
at night the channels will be redistributed in contiguous blocks. 


Getting 4 channels for a 40mhz will happen for a period, but man is that a bad 
business decision for the long term unless there is zero competition 


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:34 AM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 





The answer is a bit complicated, for example I suspect the SAS could give you a 
grant, but not at the full xmt power a 450m is capable of, so your range and 
modulation is reduced. 

Probably nobody knows the answer. A few WISPs who participated in ICD might 
have some idea. But if you are asking can you count on getting 80 MHz out of a 
total 150 MHz, and also as 2 contiguous blocks, I think we know the answer. 
Even if it happened initially, that seems unlikely long term. 

Much advertising hype in our business is based on “could it happen” rather than 
“can we count on it”. That works with 5G because they are talking about 
everybody getting gigabit speeds but if everybody only gets 1/10 of that it’s 
still pretty damn fast. Not sure the same applies if you talk about everybody 
getting 100 meg but most of the time it’s more like 10 meg. 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of castarritt . 
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:11 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance 


The other important question is if we can count on getting a contiguous 40mhz 
channel from the SAS, much less two of them to run a full cluster of 450m in 
ABAB. 



On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:59 AM Matt Mangriotis via AF < af@af.afmug.com > 
wrote: 




Using 450i or 450b on the SM (client) side, a real world aggregate speed test 
can be as high as 250 Mbps. If you have cnMeudsa (450m AP) for the sector, you 
can achieve >750 Mbps (theoretically up to 1 Gbps, but I would be lying to tell 
you I have ever seen this kind of efficiency in the real world) sector capacity 
due to the Multi-User MIMO capabilities (i.e. simultaneous transmissions to up 
to 4 clients in the same time slot). 

Running under Part 90 or Part 96 does not affect the system performance 
(provided the channel size is the same, of course). 

Matt 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 6:31 PM 
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' < af@af.afmug.com > 
Cc: Peter Kranz < pkr...@unwiredltd.com > 
Subject: [ External ] [AFMUG] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance 

What is the real world expected station performance in a TCP speedtest running 
a 40Mhz channel with a 450m running the CBRS software? 

Peter Kranz 
www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 
Mobile: 510-207- 
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 

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Re: [AFMUG] 3.5Ghz FCC Auction 105

[Jon Langeler]

How does a bidding credit work? What percent does is save?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Feb 21, 2020, at 1:15 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> 
> look at cook county. crazy. but dont forget there are two bidding credits we 
> are eligible for
> 
>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 9:27 AM dave  wrote:
>> +1 TY WISPA :)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2/20/20 6:10 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>>> Correct - the CMA bidding portion was rejected based on WISPA advocacy.  
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
> On Feb 20, 2020, at 2:44 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> 
> On 2/20/20 11:35 AM, Jason McKemie wrote:
> What is "Proposed CMA Bidding"?
 Cellular market area, it would have allowed a bidder to change the license 
 size from county up to CMA (and block all of those pesky single-county 
 bidders), but I don't think that proposal made the final cut.
 
 -- 
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

[Steve Jones]

people worry about the contiguous block issue too much. The longest you
would go with a non contiguous grant is a day. When the sas get jiggy with
each other at night the channels will be redistributed in contiguous blocks.

Getting 4 channels for a 40mhz will happen for a period, but man is that a
bad business decision for the long term unless there is zero competition

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:34 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> The answer is a bit complicated, for example I suspect the SAS could give
> you a grant, but not at the full xmt power a 450m is capable of, so your
> range and modulation is reduced.
>
>
>
> Probably nobody knows the answer.  A few WISPs who participated in ICD
> might have some idea.  But if you are asking can you count on getting 80
> MHz out of a total 150 MHz, and also as 2 contiguous blocks, I think we
> know the answer.  Even if it happened initially, that seems unlikely long
> term.
>
>
>
> Much advertising hype in our business is based on “could it happen” rather
> than “can we count on it”.  That works with 5G because they are talking
> about everybody getting gigabit speeds but if everybody only gets 1/10 of
> that it’s still pretty damn fast.  Not sure the same applies if you talk
> about everybody getting 100 meg but most of the time it’s more like 10 meg.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt .
> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 9:11 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>
>
>
> The other important question is if we can count on getting a
> contiguous 40mhz channel from the SAS, much less two of them to run a full
> cluster of 450m in ABAB.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:59 AM Matt Mangriotis via AF 
> wrote:
>
> Using 450i or 450b on the SM (client) side, a real world aggregate speed
> test can be as high as 250 Mbps. If you have cnMeudsa (450m AP) for the
> sector, you can achieve >750 Mbps (theoretically up to 1 Gbps, but I would
> be lying to tell you I have ever seen this kind of efficiency in the real
> world) sector capacity due to the Multi-User MIMO capabilities (i.e.
> simultaneous transmissions to up to 4 clients in the same time slot).
>
>
>
> Running under Part 90 or Part 96 does not affect the system performance
> (provided the channel size is the same, of course).
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Peter Kranz via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2020 6:31 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Cc:* Peter Kranz 
> *Subject:* [ External ] [AFMUG] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>
>
>
> What is the real world expected station performance in a TCP speedtest
> running a 40Mhz channel with a 450m running the CBRS software?
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com
> 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Issues with Madden Mobile?

[Dan Spitler]

Good point. I was just doing what I've seen before: people just asking for
NOC with no context.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:25 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> I see that on Jan 22nd you asked for an EA noc admin.  Perhaps posting
> with more info like you have on the animal farm list will get a better
> response.
>
> If they don’t know what you need/want they may just ignore your request
> since it was so vague.
>
> -Sean
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM Dan Spitler  wrote:
>
>> Heh, I did and got no response
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:12 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> i would join the NANOG list and post there as well.  often times you can
>>> get directly in touch with the engineers at large companies thru the list
>>> or thru contacts on the list.
>>>
>>> na...@nanog.org
>>>
>>> -sean
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:58 AM Dan Spitler  wrote:
>>>
 Hey all,
 We've gotten complaints about EA's Madden Mobile not working on our
 network. Sure enough when I try it from any of our IPs, I get a
 vague "Unknown Error." Of course, it works from any other (albeit large)
 ISP I try it from. Our IPs appear clean and geo'd correctly from every
 source I can find.

 Has anyone heard of this problem on their network? Does anyone want to
 try it? You don't have to sign up or anything, as the error occurs pretty
 quickly after opening the app (iOS or Android).

 EA's support has been absolutely useless, telling me to contact
 Marketing (?) who is understandably ignoring me. A customer's attempt to
 get support had them telling him that *we* need to "unblock his codes"
 whatever the hell that means.
 Emails to any sort of NOC contact I can find have also gone ignored.
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Issues with Madden Mobile?

[Sean Heskett]

I see that on Jan 22nd you asked for an EA noc admin.  Perhaps posting with
more info like you have on the animal farm list will get a better response.

If they don’t know what you need/want they may just ignore your request
since it was so vague.

-Sean


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM Dan Spitler  wrote:

> Heh, I did and got no response
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:12 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> i would join the NANOG list and post there as well.  often times you can
>> get directly in touch with the engineers at large companies thru the list
>> or thru contacts on the list.
>>
>> na...@nanog.org
>>
>> -sean
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:58 AM Dan Spitler  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all,
>>> We've gotten complaints about EA's Madden Mobile not working on our
>>> network. Sure enough when I try it from any of our IPs, I get a
>>> vague "Unknown Error." Of course, it works from any other (albeit large)
>>> ISP I try it from. Our IPs appear clean and geo'd correctly from every
>>> source I can find.
>>>
>>> Has anyone heard of this problem on their network? Does anyone want to
>>> try it? You don't have to sign up or anything, as the error occurs pretty
>>> quickly after opening the app (iOS or Android).
>>>
>>> EA's support has been absolutely useless, telling me to contact
>>> Marketing (?) who is understandably ignoring me. A customer's attempt to
>>> get support had them telling him that *we* need to "unblock his codes"
>>> whatever the hell that means.
>>> Emails to any sort of NOC contact I can find have also gone ignored.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Issues with Madden Mobile?

[Dan Spitler]

Heh, I did and got no response

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:12 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> i would join the NANOG list and post there as well.  often times you can
> get directly in touch with the engineers at large companies thru the list
> or thru contacts on the list.
>
> na...@nanog.org
>
> -sean
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:58 AM Dan Spitler  wrote:
>
>> Hey all,
>> We've gotten complaints about EA's Madden Mobile not working on our
>> network. Sure enough when I try it from any of our IPs, I get a
>> vague "Unknown Error." Of course, it works from any other (albeit large)
>> ISP I try it from. Our IPs appear clean and geo'd correctly from every
>> source I can find.
>>
>> Has anyone heard of this problem on their network? Does anyone want to
>> try it? You don't have to sign up or anything, as the error occurs pretty
>> quickly after opening the app (iOS or Android).
>>
>> EA's support has been absolutely useless, telling me to contact Marketing
>> (?) who is understandably ignoring me. A customer's attempt to get support
>> had them telling him that *we* need to "unblock his codes" whatever the
>> hell that means.
>> Emails to any sort of NOC contact I can find have also gone ignored.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] 3.5Ghz FCC Auction 105

[Steve Jones]

look at cook county. crazy. but dont forget there are two bidding credits
we are eligible for

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 9:27 AM dave  wrote:

> +1 TY WISPA :)
>
>
> On 2/20/20 6:10 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>
> Correct - the CMA bidding portion was rejected based on WISPA advocacy.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Feb 20, 2020, at 2:44 PM, Seth Mattinen  
>  wrote:
>
> On 2/20/20 11:35 AM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>
> What is "Proposed CMA Bidding"?
>
> Cellular market area, it would have allowed a bidder to change the license 
> size from county up to CMA (and block all of those pesky single-county 
> bidders), but I don't think that proposal made the final cut.
>
> --
> AF mailing 
> listAF@af.afmug.comhttp://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Issues with Madden Mobile?

[Sean Heskett]

i would join the NANOG list and post there as well.  often times you can
get directly in touch with the engineers at large companies thru the list
or thru contacts on the list.

na...@nanog.org

-sean


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:58 AM Dan Spitler  wrote:

> Hey all,
> We've gotten complaints about EA's Madden Mobile not working on our
> network. Sure enough when I try it from any of our IPs, I get a
> vague "Unknown Error." Of course, it works from any other (albeit large)
> ISP I try it from. Our IPs appear clean and geo'd correctly from every
> source I can find.
>
> Has anyone heard of this problem on their network? Does anyone want to try
> it? You don't have to sign up or anything, as the error occurs pretty
> quickly after opening the app (iOS or Android).
>
> EA's support has been absolutely useless, telling me to contact Marketing
> (?) who is understandably ignoring me. A customer's attempt to get support
> had them telling him that *we* need to "unblock his codes" whatever the
> hell that means.
> Emails to any sort of NOC contact I can find have also gone ignored.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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[AFMUG] Issues with Madden Mobile?

[Dan Spitler]

Hey all,
We've gotten complaints about EA's Madden Mobile not working on our
network. Sure enough when I try it from any of our IPs, I get a
vague "Unknown Error." Of course, it works from any other (albeit large)
ISP I try it from. Our IPs appear clean and geo'd correctly from every
source I can find.

Has anyone heard of this problem on their network? Does anyone want to try
it? You don't have to sign up or anything, as the error occurs pretty
quickly after opening the app (iOS or Android).

EA's support has been absolutely useless, telling me to contact Marketing
(?) who is understandably ignoring me. A customer's attempt to get support
had them telling him that *we* need to "unblock his codes" whatever the
hell that means.
Emails to any sort of NOC contact I can find have also gone ignored.
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Voip Innovations Support

[Charles Boening]

We’re in the same boat.  Have the connection to VI but don’t really do much 
with them.  Too many issues routing to rural areas (part of that national rural 
call termination issue) a few years back.  They weren’t terribly interested in 
fixing it so we weren’t interested in routing traffic to them.

We have CenturyLink, Thinq and Bandwidth.  I like Thinq the best as they have 
some good controls on the carriers they use.  They give you a lot of control on 
how your traffic routes.



__

Charles Boening
Network Manager
800-858-2399 | Office
charl...@calore.net

www.cot.net | Find us on 
Facebook
__
Cal-Ore  | Local. Trusted. Professional.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Daniel White
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 10:20 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Voip Innovations Support

EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or 
sharing sensitive information.
The switch operators I work closely with have mostly abandoned VI.  
Outages/Issues seem to be increasing as well.

We have a trunk through them but don't send much traffic.

[photograph]
Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
Nate Burke wrote on 2/19/20 09:18:

Has anyone noticed a change with VI Support since Sangoma took over?  Without 
any data to back it up, it fees like I'm sitting on hold longer before someone 
picks up.  They can still always solve my problem when I get through to 
someone, But they all sound like they're sitting in the middle of a coffee 
shop, or in a train station, there is so much background noise, people yelling, 
music playing, etc.  I'm on right now and it sounds like she's on an airplane, 
like there is rushing wind behind her.

I still have no complaints about the quality of the service, it just seems like 
something with Live support has changed.

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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

[Ken Hohhof]

The answer is a bit complicated, for example I suspect the SAS could give you a 
grant, but not at the full xmt power a 450m is capable of, so your range and 
modulation is reduced.

 

Probably nobody knows the answer.  A few WISPs who participated in ICD might 
have some idea.  But if you are asking can you count on getting 80 MHz out of a 
total 150 MHz, and also as 2 contiguous blocks, I think we know the answer.  
Even if it happened initially, that seems unlikely long term.

 

Much advertising hype in our business is based on “could it happen” rather than 
“can we count on it”.  That works with 5G because they are talking about 
everybody getting gigabit speeds but if everybody only gets 1/10 of that it’s 
still pretty damn fast.  Not sure the same applies if you talk about everybody 
getting 100 meg but most of the time it’s more like 10 meg.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of castarritt .
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

 

The other important question is if we can count on getting a contiguous 40mhz 
channel from the SAS, much less two of them to run a full cluster of 450m in 
ABAB.

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:59 AM Matt Mangriotis via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

Using 450i or 450b on the SM (client) side, a real world aggregate speed test 
can be as high as 250 Mbps. If you have cnMeudsa (450m AP) for the sector, you 
can achieve >750 Mbps (theoretically up to 1 Gbps, but I would be lying to tell 
you I have ever seen this kind of efficiency in the real world) sector capacity 
due to the Multi-User MIMO capabilities (i.e. simultaneous transmissions to up 
to 4 clients in the same time slot).

 

Running under Part 90 or Part 96 does not affect the system performance 
(provided the channel size is the same, of course).

 

Matt

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 6:31 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: Peter Kranz mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com> >
Subject: [ External ] [AFMUG] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

 

What is the real world expected station performance in a TCP speedtest running 
a 40Mhz channel with a 450m running the CBRS software?

 

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com 

 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com  

 

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Re: [AFMUG] 3.5Ghz FCC Auction 105

[dave]

+1 TY WISPA :)


On 2/20/20 6:10 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Correct - the CMA bidding portion was rejected based on WISPA advocacy.

Mark


On Feb 20, 2020, at 2:44 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

On 2/20/20 11:35 AM, Jason McKemie wrote:

What is "Proposed CMA Bidding"?


Cellular market area, it would have allowed a bidder to change the license size 
from county up to CMA (and block all of those pesky single-county bidders), but 
I don't think that proposal made the final cut.

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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

[castarritt .]

The other important question is if we can count on getting a
contiguous 40mhz channel from the SAS, much less two of them to run a full
cluster of 450m in ABAB.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:59 AM Matt Mangriotis via AF 
wrote:

> Using 450i or 450b on the SM (client) side, a real world aggregate speed
> test can be as high as 250 Mbps. If you have cnMeudsa (450m AP) for the
> sector, you can achieve >750 Mbps (theoretically up to 1 Gbps, but I would
> be lying to tell you I have ever seen this kind of efficiency in the real
> world) sector capacity due to the Multi-User MIMO capabilities (i.e.
> simultaneous transmissions to up to 4 clients in the same time slot).
>
>
>
> Running under Part 90 or Part 96 does not affect the system performance
> (provided the channel size is the same, of course).
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Peter Kranz via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2020 6:31 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Cc:* Peter Kranz 
> *Subject:* [ External ] [AFMUG] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>
>
>
> What is the real world expected station performance in a TCP speedtest
> running a 40Mhz channel with a 450m running the CBRS software?
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz *www.UnwiredLtd.com
> 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
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> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] 4 Sale

[Colin Stanners]

 I wouldn't use such repaired equipment for revenue-generating purposes
that need reliability, but the amateur radio wide-area 2.3Ghz / 5.9Ghz WAN
project that I'm involved in is mostly all donated / repaired gear, and
I've gotten good at estimating longevity. If I'm already going through
batch repairs of more expensive gear I'll spend a few minutes to try a hAP
ac Lite, but not individually.



On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:38 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Not bad.  Needs repair.  Reminds me of people.
>
>
>
> But yeah, who would bother trying to repair something like a hAP ac Lite.
> It’s like a goldfish.  Flush it.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 8:01 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 4 Sale
>
>
>
> That is a lot of bad gear :(
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 7:23 AM Gino A. Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> *ePMP*
>
>
>
> Need Repair (mostly Eth/Power)
>
>- ePMP 2000 / QTY 18
>- ePMP 1000 AP / QTY 21
>- ePMP 1000 SM / QTY 58
>- cnPilot R200P / QTY 42
>- cnPilot R201P / QTY 19
>- ePMP 200 / QTY 19
>
> Working:
>
>- ePMP 200 (used) / QTY  42
>- ePMP 200 (New) / QTY 15
>
> *PMP450*
>
> Need Repair
>
>- 450i BH / QTY 2
>- 450i AP / QTY 5
>
>
>
> *NETONIX -* Need Repair
>
>
>
>- WS-12-DC / QTY 22
>- 12-250-DC / QTY 5
>- 12-250-AC / QTY 11
>- WS-26-400-IDC / QTY 15
>
>
>
> *MIKROTIK -* Need Repair
>
>
>
>- 2011 / QTY 7
>- 3011 / QTY 3
>- 4011 / QTY 2
>- HAP-AC-LITE / QTY 4
>- HEX-S / QTY 7
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Gino** Villarini *
> Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
> m:
>
> [image: aeronet-logo] 
>
> [image: inc500] 
>
> [image: fb-logo] 
>
> [image: insta-logo] 
>
> [image: in-logo] 
>
>
> [image: tw-logo]
> 
>
>
> [image: yt-logo]
> 
>
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>
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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

[Matt Mangriotis via AF]

Using 450i or 450b on the SM (client) side, a real world aggregate speed test 
can be as high as 250 Mbps. If you have cnMeudsa (450m AP) for the sector, you 
can achieve >750 Mbps (theoretically up to 1 Gbps, but I would be lying to tell 
you I have ever seen this kind of efficiency in the real world) sector capacity 
due to the Multi-User MIMO capabilities (i.e. simultaneous transmissions to up 
to 4 clients in the same time slot).

Running under Part 90 or Part 96 does not affect the system performance 
(provided the channel size is the same, of course).

Matt

From: AF  On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 6:31 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Peter Kranz 
Subject: [ External ] [AFMUG] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

What is the real world expected station performance in a TCP speedtest running 
a 40Mhz channel with a 450m running the CBRS software?

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

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Re: [AFMUG] 4 Sale

[Ken Hohhof]

Not bad.  Needs repair.  Reminds me of people.

 

But yeah, who would bother trying to repair something like a hAP ac Lite.  It’s 
like a goldfish.  Flush it.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 8:01 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 4 Sale

 

That is a lot of bad gear :(

 

 

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 7:23 AM Gino A. Villarini mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com> > wrote:

 

ePMP

 

Need Repair (mostly Eth/Power)

*   ePMP 2000 / QTY 18
*   ePMP 1000 AP / QTY 21  
*   ePMP 1000 SM / QTY 58 
*   cnPilot R200P / QTY 42
*   cnPilot R201P / QTY 19
*   ePMP 200 / QTY 19

Working:

*   ePMP 200 (used) / QTY  42
*   ePMP 200 (New) / QTY 15

PMP450

Need Repair

*   450i BH / QTY 2
*   450i AP / QTY 5

 

NETONIX - Need Repair

 

*   WS-12-DC / QTY 22
*   12-250-DC / QTY 5
*   12-250-AC / QTY 11
*   WS-26-400-IDC / QTY 15

 

MIKROTIK - Need Repair

 

*   2011 / QTY 7
*   3011 / QTY 3
*   4011 / QTY 2
*   HAP-AC-LITE / QTY 4
*   HEX-S / QTY 7

 

 

  

Gino Villarini 
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
m: 


  

  

   

   

   

 

  

   



  www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968

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Re: [AFMUG] 4 Sale

[Josh Baird]

That is a lot of bad gear :(



On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 7:23 AM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

>
>
> *ePMP*
>
>
>
> Need Repair (mostly Eth/Power)
>
>- ePMP 2000 / QTY 18
>- ePMP 1000 AP / QTY 21
>- ePMP 1000 SM / QTY 58
>- cnPilot R200P / QTY 42
>- cnPilot R201P / QTY 19
>- ePMP 200 / QTY 19
>
> Working:
>
>- ePMP 200 (used) / QTY  42
>- ePMP 200 (New) / QTY 15
>
> *PMP450*
>
> Need Repair
>
>- 450i BH / QTY 2
>- 450i AP / QTY 5
>
>
>
> *NETONIX -* Need Repair
>
>
>
>- WS-12-DC / QTY 22
>- 12-250-DC / QTY 5
>- 12-250-AC / QTY 11
>- WS-26-400-IDC / QTY 15
>
>
>
> *MIKROTIK -* Need Repair
>
>
>
>- 2011 / QTY 7
>- 3011 / QTY 3
>- 4011 / QTY 2
>- HAP-AC-LITE / QTY 4
>- HEX-S / QTY 7
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Gino** Villarini *
> Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
> m:
>
> [image: aeronet-logo] 
>
> [image: inc500] 
>
> [image: fb-logo] 
>
> [image: insta-logo] 
>
> [image: in-logo] 
>
>
> [image: tw-logo]
> 
>
>
> [image: yt-logo]
> 
>
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: About Puerto Rico (for Gino)

[Gino A. Villarini]

Well, it captures somewhat the sentiment around here.. specially after the weak 
response and support from the motherland on Hurricane Maria and the recent 
quakes…

The economic info at the end is kinda skewed tho.. “half truths”

But yea, we are second class citizens no doubt..


Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
m:
[https://mcusercontent.com/491678685aaddc31e08616413/images/756812e5-24a6-4693-a923-7a1d8f55546d.png]
[https://image.ibb.co/noQeyp/inc500.png] 
  
[https://image.ibb.co/e4pBB9/fb-logo.png]  
[https://image.ibb.co/nxuuW9/insta-logo.png] 
   
[https://image.ibb.co/jhSEW9/in-logo.png] 
 
[https://image.ibb.co/dqqq4U/tw-logo.png] 

[https://image.ibb.co/bAJcjU/yt-logo.png] 

www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968
From: AF  on behalf of Bill Prince 

Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 4:50 PM
To: AFMUG 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: About Puerto Rico (for Gino)

But how do you really feel?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-GYqakwHdg

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bp



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