Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Dev]

I walked through the ovens at Auschwitz and Birkenau a couple years ago, it was 
totally silent, no one spoke, we couldn’t find the words. Hardest place I’ve 
ever been. Pure evil. Define that how you will.

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 12:03 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> We watched a movie called “Night and Fog” in high school.  I wish I hadn’t.  
> I will never get those images of folks being slid into the cookers out of my 
> mind.  
> It was a mix of nazi footage and liberators footage.  Sounds like your 89th 
> book but the film version.  
>  
> From: Ken Hohhof <>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:57 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>  
> It’s probably like the moon landing deniers.  They can confront Buzz Aldrin, 
> who can punch them in the nose.  But soon everyone who was actually there 
> will be dead, and people can rewrite history to fit their biases and 
> conspiracy theories.
>  
> Most of the people like my dad who fought in World War II wanted to move on 
> with life and didn’t talk much about the war.  But his army unit (89th 
> infantry division) put together a book with history and photos, including 
> emaciated survivors and dead bodies stacked like firewood at sub-camps of 
> Buchenwald.  You have never seen anything like it in your life, and you don’t 
> want to.  Obviously I wasn’t there, but my dad was, and anybody who theorizes 
> that it was just propaganda makes me want to do a Buzz Aldrin on them.
>  
> Like the Marx Brothers quote, who are you going to believe, me or your own 
> eyes?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHxGUe1cjzM 
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHxGUe1cjzM>
>  
>  
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:08 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>  
> But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a tattoo 
> on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t 
> killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or tattooed 
> them.
>  
>  
> This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..
>  
>  
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <>] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com <>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>  
> I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.  
> So I only know what I have experienced.
>  
> But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
> something happened
> Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
> there’s that...
>  
> From: Adam Moffett 
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>  
> If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
> astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind 
> of direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
> since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding 
> and supporting each other.  
> Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
> magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc. 
>  
> On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:
>> I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley on 
>> a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just 
>> seemed like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age 
>> where these people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...
>> 
>> On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>> Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently 
>>> is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz 
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz>
>>>  
>>> I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
>>> those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in 
>>> liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can 
>>> you deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a 
>>> friend who kept writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and 
>>> tests.  We kept telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were 
>>> joking.  Brings new meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <> On Behalf Of Robert
>&

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[James Howard]

And here all along I thought it was something to do with diluting things beyond 
any amount of actual continued presence………

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 4:12 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Gay eye doctors are just fine with me.

From: James Howard
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 2:28 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

But you mentioned homeopathy………

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:49 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber


If we need to call "lent" on discussion a well established fact like the 
holocaust then we're doomed.  Up is down, black is white, all fact and truth 
are irrelevant.
On 6/12/2020 2:07 PM, James Howard wrote:
But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a tattoo 
on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t 
killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or tattooed 
them.


This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.
So I only know what I have experienced.

But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
something happened
Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
there’s that...

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber


If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind of 
direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding and 
supporting each other.

Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc.


On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:
I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley on a 
semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just seemed 
like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where these 
people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...
On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently is 
still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in liberating 
some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny 
facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept 
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think..  
Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with his 
body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim 
Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...
On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential equations. I 
blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He lectured 
with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!



bp




On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. were 
pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out of a 
microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want to do 
Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control systems with 
PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year old.   
Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or 

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

Gay eye doctors are just fine with me.

From: James Howard 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 2:28 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

But you mentioned homeopathy………   

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:49 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

If we need to call "lent" on discussion a well established fact like the 
holocaust then we're doomed.  Up is down, black is white, all fact and truth 
are irrelevant.

On 6/12/2020 2:07 PM, James Howard wrote:

  But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a tattoo 
on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t 
killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or tattooed 
them.

   

   

  This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..

   

   

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

   

  I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.  

  So I only know what I have experienced.

   

  But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
something happened

  Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
there’s that...

   

  From: Adam Moffett 

  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM

  To: af@af.afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

   

  If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind of 
direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding and 
supporting each other.  

  Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc. 

   

  On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:

I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley 
on a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just 
seemed like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where 
these people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...

On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who 
apparently is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

   

  I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never 
understood those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in 
liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you 
deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who 
kept writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.

   

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

   

  Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I 
think..  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations 
with his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of 
Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...

  On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential 
equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He 
lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

 

bp On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

  See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, 
etc. were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

   

  Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a 
plant out of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But 
I want to do Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control 
systems with PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 
year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

   

  Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a 
perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Larry Smith]

Lived in Germany for three years late 60's.
My landlord and his wife both had tatoo's from
prison camps (they were German but did not agree
with Hitler).  Some of the stories they told would
give me chills.

Was back in Germany early 91 to late 94, and
again both my landlord and his wife had prison
camp tatoo's.  He would not talk much about it
but she said "You got in line and if that line cooked,
then you cooked but if that line dug graves then you
dug graves or later someone would be digging yours!"

Been to Auschwitz and a couple of other camps.
Didn't sleep for several days after.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it...

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Fri June 12 2020 14:03, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> We watched a movie called “Night and Fog” in high school.  I wish I hadn’t.
>  I will never get those images of folks being slid into the cookers out of
> my mind. It was a mix of nazi footage and liberators footage.  Sounds like
> your 89th book but the film version.
>
> From: Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:57 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
> It’s probably like the moon landing deniers.  They can confront Buzz
> Aldrin, who can punch them in the nose.  But soon everyone who was actually
> there will be dead, and people can rewrite history to fit their biases and
> conspiracy theories.
>
>
>
> Most of the people like my dad who fought in World War II wanted to move on
> with life and didn’t talk much about the war.  But his army unit (89th
> infantry division) put together a book with history and photos, including
> emaciated survivors and dead bodies stacked like firewood at sub-camps of
> Buchenwald.  You have never seen anything like it in your life, and you
> don’t want to.  Obviously I wasn’t there, but my dad was, and anybody who
> theorizes that it was just propaganda makes me want to do a Buzz Aldrin on
> them.
>
>
>
> Like the Marx Brothers quote, who are you going to believe, me or your own
> eyes?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHxGUe1cjzM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:08 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a
> tattoo on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he
> wasn’t killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or
> tattooed them.
>
>
>
>
>
> This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.
>
> So I only know what I have experienced.
>
>
>
> But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate
> something happened
>
> Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm...
> yeah, there’s that...
>
>
>
> From: Adam Moffett
>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM
>
> To: af@af.afmug.com
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an
> astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That
> kind of direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the
> other hand, since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people
> are finding and supporting each other.
>
> Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like
> homeopathy, magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc.
>
>
>
> On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:
>
>   I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley
> on a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just
> seemed like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age
> where these people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...
>
>   On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who
> apparently is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz
>
>
>
> I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never
> understood those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated
> in liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how
> can you deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a
> friend who kept

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[James Howard]

But you mentioned homeopathy………

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:49 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber


If we need to call "lent" on discussion a well established fact like the 
holocaust then we're doomed.  Up is down, black is white, all fact and truth 
are irrelevant.
On 6/12/2020 2:07 PM, James Howard wrote:
But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a tattoo 
on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t 
killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or tattooed 
them.


This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.
So I only know what I have experienced.

But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
something happened
Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
there’s that...

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber


If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind of 
direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding and 
supporting each other.

Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc.


On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:
I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley on a 
semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just seemed 
like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where these 
people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...
On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently is 
still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in liberating 
some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny 
facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept 
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think..  
Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with his 
body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim 
Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...
On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential equations. I 
blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He lectured 
with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!



bp




On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. were 
pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out of a 
microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want to do 
Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control systems with 
PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year old.   
Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a perfectly 
good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam and drew a 
complete blank.  Should have just slept, probably would have aced it.

Mark

On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things antenna and 
RF.
Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.

Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

We watched a movie called “Night and Fog” in high school.  I wish I hadn’t.  I 
will never get those images of folks being slid into the cookers out of my 
mind.  
It was a mix of nazi footage and liberators footage.  Sounds like your 89th 
book but the film version.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:57 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

It’s probably like the moon landing deniers.  They can confront Buzz Aldrin, 
who can punch them in the nose.  But soon everyone who was actually there will 
be dead, and people can rewrite history to fit their biases and conspiracy 
theories.

 

Most of the people like my dad who fought in World War II wanted to move on 
with life and didn’t talk much about the war.  But his army unit (89th infantry 
division) put together a book with history and photos, including emaciated 
survivors and dead bodies stacked like firewood at sub-camps of Buchenwald.  
You have never seen anything like it in your life, and you don’t want to.  
Obviously I wasn’t there, but my dad was, and anybody who theorizes that it was 
just propaganda makes me want to do a Buzz Aldrin on them.

 

Like the Marx Brothers quote, who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHxGUe1cjzM

 

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:08 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a tattoo 
on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t 
killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or tattooed 
them.

 

 

This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.  

So I only know what I have experienced.

 

But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
something happened

Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
there’s that...

 

From: Adam Moffett 

Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind of 
direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding and 
supporting each other.  

Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc. 

 

On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:

  I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley on 
a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just seemed 
like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where these 
people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...

  On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently 
is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

 

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in liberating 
some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny 
facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept 
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think.. 
 Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with his 
body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim 
Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...

On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

  Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential 
equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He 
lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Ken Hohhof]

It’s probably like the moon landing deniers.  They can confront Buzz Aldrin, 
who can punch them in the nose.  But soon everyone who was actually there will 
be dead, and people can rewrite history to fit their biases and conspiracy 
theories.

 

Most of the people like my dad who fought in World War II wanted to move on 
with life and didn’t talk much about the war.  But his army unit (89th infantry 
division) put together a book with history and photos, including emaciated 
survivors and dead bodies stacked like firewood at sub-camps of Buchenwald.  
You have never seen anything like it in your life, and you don’t want to.  
Obviously I wasn’t there, but my dad was, and anybody who theorizes that it was 
just propaganda makes me want to do a Buzz Aldrin on them.

 

Like the Marx Brothers quote, who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHxGUe1cjzM

 

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:08 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a tattoo 
on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t 
killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or tattooed 
them.

 

 

This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.  

So I only know what I have experienced.

 

But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
something happened

Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
there’s that...

 

From: Adam Moffett 

Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind of 
direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding and 
supporting each other.  

Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc. 

 

On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:

I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley on a 
semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just seemed 
like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where these 
people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...

On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently is 
still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

 

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in liberating 
some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny 
facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept 
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think..  
Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with his 
body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim 
Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...

On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential equations. I 
blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He lectured 
with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

 

bp

 

On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. were 
pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

 

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out of a 
microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he sugge

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

I agree, certain things seem worth of being deemed fact, by definition, by 
acclimation, by history, by simple agreement amongst honest, logical, civil 
peoples.
Not that newer facts can always come along and change thinking, but those are 
more in the realm of the best covid treatments or whether or not eggs will kill 
you.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:48 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

If we need to call "lent" on discussion a well established fact like the 
holocaust then we're doomed.  Up is down, black is white, all fact and truth 
are irrelevant.


On 6/12/2020 2:07 PM, James Howard wrote:

  But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a tattoo 
on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t 
killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or tattooed 
them.

   

   

  This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..

   

   

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

   

  I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.  

  So I only know what I have experienced.

   

  But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
something happened

  Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
there’s that...

   

  From: Adam Moffett 

  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM

  To: af@af.afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

   

  If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind of 
direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding and 
supporting each other.  

  Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc. 

   

  On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:

I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley 
on a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just 
seemed like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where 
these people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...

On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who 
apparently is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

   

  I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never 
understood those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in 
liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you 
deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who 
kept writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.

   

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

   

  Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I 
think..  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations 
with his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of 
Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...

  On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential 
equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He 
lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

 

bp On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

  See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, 
etc. were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

   

  Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a 
plant out of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But 
I want to do Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control 
systems with PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 
year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

   

  Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a 
perfec

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Steve Jones]

a campground campsite is a rented domicile. you cannot make alterations to
the property as with any rental. nothing can prohibit the use of an
attached receiver (transmitter, yes) but is can disallow the use of even a
tripod that isnt attached. It is the same as the way they can disallow a
visible firearm, but they cannot restrict the possession of a firearm
within the main housing unit.

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 1:49 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> If we need to call "lent" on discussion a well established fact like the
> holocaust then we're doomed.  Up is down, black is white, all fact and
> truth are irrelevant.
> On 6/12/2020 2:07 PM, James Howard wrote:
>
> But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a
> tattoo on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he
> wasn’t killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or
> tattooed them.
>
>
>
>
>
> This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.
>
> So I only know what I have experienced.
>
>
>
> But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate
> something happened
>
> Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm...
> yeah, there’s that...
>
>
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an
> astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That
> kind of direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the
> other hand, since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people
> are finding and supporting each other.
>
> Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like
> homeopathy, magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc.
>
>
>
> On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:
>
> I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley
> on a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just
> seemed like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age
> where these people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...
>
> On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently
> is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz
>
>
>
> I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never
> understood those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated
> in liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how
> can you deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a
> friend who kept writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and
> tests.  We kept telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were
> joking.  Brings new meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  *On
> Behalf Of *Robert
> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I
> think..  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the
> equations with his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other
> assoc-prof..   Name of Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went
> into game theory and betting systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20
> years later...
>
> On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential
> equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible
> professor! He lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the
> blackboard; chalk in his outstretched right hand, and eraser in his
> outstretched left hand. He would write equations as he droned, and erased
> the information in the space between his hands. What a horrible experience
> that was!
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>
> See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc.
> were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.
>
>
>
> Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out
> of a microco

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Dev]

What kind of AP’s and how far apart to get decent coverage? I assume a captive 
portal? Mesh topology? We’re looking at Xirrus and/or Cambium e700, anyone got 
experience with either (or other suggestion)?

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 2:48 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> Why are you doing fiber?
> 
> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
> Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
> 
> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
> sectors that cover several RV campers.
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part of 
>> why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be nice to 
>> have the option to plug in a cable. 
>> 
>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV power 
>> ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/. 
>>  
>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me a 
>> place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks in 
>> it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets their 
>> own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if there was 
>> ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site 
>> rather than just "somewhere in the park". 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
>>> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't even 
>>> carry and ethernet cable... 
>>> 
>>> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
 If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site? 
 
 I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next to 
 their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to plug 
 Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And if they 
 don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV. 
 
 of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, but 
 I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already. 
 
 
 
>>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

If we need to call "lent" on discussion a well established fact like the 
holocaust then we're doomed.  Up is down, black is white, all fact and 
truth are irrelevant.


On 6/12/2020 2:07 PM, James Howard wrote:


But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a 
tattoo on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since 
OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t killed……  It just proves that they put people in 
prison camps and/or tattooed them.


This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..

*From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.

So I only know what I have experienced.

But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to 
indicate something happened


Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... 
yeah, there’s that...


*From:*Adam Moffett

*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked 
an astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  
That kind of direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  
On the other hand, since anyone can put anything out there a lot of 
fringe people are finding and supporting each other.


Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like 
homeopathy, magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc.


On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:

I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to
Shockley on a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he
supported.  Just seemed like a very aloof guy but liked to
chat...  Yeah we are in an age where these people are getting to
say what they used to have to hide...

On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy,
who apparently is still teaching although he would be well
into his 80’s now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier. I’ve
never understood those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII
and participated in liberating some concentration camps.  I
mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny facts.  Anyway,
my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and
tests.  We kept telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought
we were joking. Brings new meaning to the expression “butt of
a joke”.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Robert
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same
professor, I think..  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially
when he blocked the equations with his body as he erased!!  
But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim Clark.. 
He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and
betting systems..  Yep that Clark. Worked for him 20 years
later...

On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to
differential equations. I blame the professor. Harry
Blackman. What a terrible professor! He lectured with his
back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in
his outstretched right hand, and eraser in his
outstretched left hand. He would write equations as he
droned, and erased the information in the space between
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

bp



On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though
power, motors, etc. were pretty cool as well.   Grades
were good in those classes.

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a
system for a plant out of a microcontroller instead of
using a PLC like he suggested. But I want to do
Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building
industrial control systems with PLC’s.   I’m guessing
I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year old.
Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session
managed to turn a perfectly good B+ in differential
equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam and drew
a compl

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[James Howard]

But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a tattoo 
on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t 
killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or tattooed 
them.


This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.
So I only know what I have experienced.

But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
something happened
Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
there’s that...

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber


If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind of 
direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding and 
supporting each other.

Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc.


On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:
I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley on a 
semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just seemed 
like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where these 
people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...
On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently is 
still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in liberating 
some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny 
facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept 
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think..  
Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with his 
body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim 
Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...
On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential equations. I 
blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He lectured 
with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!



bp




On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. were 
pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out of a 
microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want to do 
Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control systems with 
PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year old.   
Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a perfectly 
good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam and drew a 
complete blank.  Should have just slept, probably would have aced it.

Mark

On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things antenna and 
RF.
Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.

Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  (those guys 
are called bit freaks)
Got a C- in integral calculus.

From: Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s get 
degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why 
the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer.

Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I de

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.  
So I only know what I have experienced.

But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
something happened
Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
there’s that...

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind of 
direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding and 
supporting each other.  


Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc. 




On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:

  I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley on 
a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just seemed 
like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where these 
people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...


  On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently 
is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

 

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in liberating 
some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny 
facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept 
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think.. 
 Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with his 
body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim 
Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...

On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

  Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential 
equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He 
lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

   

bp On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. 
were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

 

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant 
out of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want 
to do Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control 
systems with PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 
year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

 

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a 
perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam 
and drew a complete blank.  Should have just slept, probably would have aced it.

 

Mark





  On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

   

  Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things 
antenna and RF.

  Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.  

   

  Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  
(those guys are called bit freaks)

  Got a C- in integral calculus.  

   

  From: Mark Radabaugh 

  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

   

  Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s 
get degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   
Why the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer. 

   

  Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with 
microwaves and antenna systems every day.

   

  Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this 
shit over again.

   

  Mark





On Jun 12, 2020

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

I understand some of his logic and arguments.  I think there is some 
scientifically valid foundation for “some” of his ideas.  
If you were talking animal husbandry there would probably be no controversy.

But the way he presented the ideas were sure to draw a s*it storm.  For someone 
that smart to be so stupid is astounding.  Unless you consider he may have been 
on the asperberger/autism spectrum.  

From: Robert 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:15 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley on a 
semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just seemed 
like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where these 
people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...


On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently is 
still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

   

  I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in liberating 
some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny 
facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept 
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.

   

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

   

  Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think..  
Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with his 
body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim 
Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...

  On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential 
equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He 
lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

 

bp On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

  See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. 
were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

   

  Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant 
out of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want 
to do Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control 
systems with PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 
year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

   

  Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a 
perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam 
and drew a complete blank.  Should have just slept, probably would have aced it.

   

  Mark





On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

 

Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things 
antenna and RF.

Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.  

 

Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  
(those guys are called bit freaks)

Got a C- in integral calculus.  

 

From: Mark Radabaugh 

Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s 
get degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   
Why the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer. 

 

Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with 
microwaves and antenna systems every day.

 

Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this shit 
over again.

 

Mark





  On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

   

  Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the 
aluminum box into an antenna.

   

  Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a 
fear of heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday 
cage into an antenna is probably not my best idea.

   

   

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 20

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That 
kind of direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the 
other hand, since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe 
people are finding and supporting each other.


Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like 
homeopathy, magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc.



On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:
I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to 
Shockley on a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he 
supported.  Just seemed like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  
Yeah we are in an age where these people are getting to say what they 
used to have to hide...


On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who 
apparently is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never 
understood those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and 
participated in liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a 
freakin’ fact, how can you deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of 
Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept writing the name as “Prof. 
Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept telling him it was 
spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new meaning to 
the expression “butt of a joke”.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Robert
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I 
think..  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the 
equations with his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other 
assoc-prof..   Name of Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he 
went into game theory and betting systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked 
for him 20 years later...


On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to
differential equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman.
What a terrible professor! He lectured with his back to the class
and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his outstretched right
hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would write
equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space
between his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

bp



On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power,
motors, etc. were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in
those classes.

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system
for a plant out of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC
like he suggested.   But I want to do Microcontrollers.  
Yep, first job was building industrial control systems with
PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a
21 year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to
turn a perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.
  Walked in to that exam and drew a complete blank.  Should
have just slept, probably would have aced it.

Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in
all things antenna and RF.

Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.

Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to
anyone  (those guys are called bit freaks)

Got a C- in integral calculus.

*From:*Mark Radabaugh

*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna
systems :-)   D’s get degrees.   I’m never going to use
this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why the hell would
I ever work as a consulting engineer.

Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I
deal with microwaves and antenna systems every day.

Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do
all this shit over again.

Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip
could turn the aluminum box into an antenna.

Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in
college.  And I have a fear of heights.  So of course
I end up running a WISP.  But turnin

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert]

I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to 
Shockley on a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he 
supported.  Just seemed like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah 
we are in an age where these people are getting to say what they used to 
have to hide...


On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who 
apparently is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never 
understood those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and 
participated in liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a 
freakin’ fact, how can you deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of 
Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept writing the name as “Prof. 
Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept telling him it was 
spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new meaning to the 
expression “butt of a joke”.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Robert
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I 
think..  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the 
equations with his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other 
assoc-prof..   Name of Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he 
went into game theory and betting systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked 
for him 20 years later...


On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential
equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible
professor! He lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the
blackboard; chalk in his outstretched right hand, and eraser in
his outstretched left hand. He would write equations as he droned,
and erased the information in the space between his hands. What a
horrible experience that was!

bp



On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power,
motors, etc. were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in
those classes.

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for
a plant out of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like
he suggested.   But I want to do Microcontrollers.   Yep,
first job was building industrial control systems with PLC’s.
  I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year
old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to
turn a perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.  
Walked in to that exam and drew a complete blank.  Should have
just slept, probably would have aced it.

Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all
things antenna and RF.

Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.

Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to
anyone  (those guys are called bit freaks)

Got a C- in integral calculus.

*From:*Mark Radabaugh

*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna
systems :-)   D’s get degrees.   I’m never going to use
this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why the hell would
I ever work as a consulting engineer.

Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I
deal with microwaves and antenna systems every day.

Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do
all this shit over again.

Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could
turn the aluminum box into an antenna.

Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in
college.  And I have a fear of heights.  So of course
I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage
into an antenna is probably not my best idea.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>*On Behalf Of*Mark
Radabaugh
*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
            *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I like your solution actually.   Should work out
well.   Hardest part with

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

There's a psychology theoryI don't know the proper name of 
itwhere the idea is the smarter someone is the better they are at 
building a mental framework to support a faulty idea.  It seems to fit 
with the stereotype of eccentric professors.




On 6/12/2020 12:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who 
apparently is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never 
understood those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and 
participated in liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a 
freakin’ fact, how can you deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of 
Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept writing the name as “Prof. 
Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept telling him it was 
spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new meaning to the 
expression “butt of a joke”.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Robert
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I 
think..  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the 
equations with his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other 
assoc-prof..   Name of Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he 
went into game theory and betting systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked 
for him 20 years later...


On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential
equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible
professor! He lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the
blackboard; chalk in his outstretched right hand, and eraser in
his outstretched left hand. He would write equations as he droned,
and erased the information in the space between his hands. What a
horrible experience that was!

bp



On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power,
motors, etc. were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in
those classes.

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for
a plant out of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like
he suggested.   But I want to do Microcontrollers.   Yep,
first job was building industrial control systems with PLC’s.
  I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year
old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to
turn a perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.  
Walked in to that exam and drew a complete blank.  Should have
just slept, probably would have aced it.

Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all
things antenna and RF.

Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.

Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to
anyone  (those guys are called bit freaks)

Got a C- in integral calculus.

*From:*Mark Radabaugh

*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna
systems :-)   D’s get degrees.   I’m never going to use
this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why the hell would
I ever work as a consulting engineer.

Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I
deal with microwaves and antenna systems every day.

Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do
all this shit over again.

Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could
turn the aluminum box into an antenna.

Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in
college.  And I have a fear of heights.  So of course
I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage
into an antenna is probably not my best idea.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>*On Behalf Of*Mark
Radabaugh
*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
            *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I like your solution actually.   Should work out
well.   Hardest part with trailers is getting through
   

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Larry Smith]

That is true, did most of my college while serving in Europe.
My economics professor was Rebecca Keynes, wasn't
until like my fourth or fifth class that I found out her
grandfather was John Keynes (Keynesian Theory).

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Fri June 12 2020 11:11, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently
> is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz
>
>
>
> I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood
> those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in
> liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can
> you deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a
> friend who kept writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and
> tests.  We kept telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were
> joking.  Brings new meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think..
>  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with
> his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of
> Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and
> betting systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...
>
> On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential
> equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible
> professor! He lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the
> blackboard; chalk in his outstretched right hand, and eraser in his
> outstretched left hand. He would write equations as he droned, and erased
> the information in the space between his hands. What a horrible experience
> that was!
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>
> See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc.
> were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.
>
>
>
> Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out
> of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want
> to do Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control
> systems with PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21
> year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.
>
>
>
> Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a
> perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that
> exam and drew a complete blank.  Should have just slept, probably would
> have aced it.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things antenna
> and RF.
>
> Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.
>
>
>
> Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  (those
> guys are called bit freaks)
>
> Got a C- in integral calculus.
>
>
>
> From: Mark Radabaugh
>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM
>
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s get
> degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?  
> Why the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer.
>
>
>
> Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with microwaves
> and antenna systems every day.
>
>
>
> Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this shit
> over again.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof  <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:
>
>
>
> Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the aluminum
> box into an antenna.
>
>
>
> Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a fear
> of heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday
> cage into an antenna is probably not my best idea.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
> Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest 

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Ken Hohhof]

Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently is 
still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

 

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in liberating 
some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny 
facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept 
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think..  
Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with his 
body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim 
Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...

On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential equations. I 
blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He lectured 
with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

 

bp

 

On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. were 
pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

 

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out of a 
microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want to do 
Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control systems with 
PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year old.   
Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

 

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a perfectly 
good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam and drew a 
complete blank.  Should have just slept, probably would have aced it.

 

Mark





On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>  wrote:

 

Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things antenna and 
RF.

Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.  

 

Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  (those guys 
are called bit freaks)

Got a C- in integral calculus.  

 

From: Mark Radabaugh 

Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s get 
degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why 
the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer. 

 

Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with microwaves and 
antenna systems every day.

 

Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this shit over 
again.

 

Mark





On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

 

Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the aluminum box 
into an antenna.

 

Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a fear of 
heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage 
into an antenna is probably not my best idea.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with 
trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will help a 
lot.

 

Mark






On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.

I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick WiFi 
because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the table.

As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:

1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other ped) 
has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's a security 
benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff traffic from each 
other's devices.

2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site (or at 
least to the proximity of one).

3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect anybody's WiFi 
because their WiFi will be

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert]

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I 
think..  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the 
equations with his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other 
assoc-prof..   Name of Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went 
into game theory and betting systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 
20 years later...


On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential 
equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible 
professor! He lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the 
blackboard; chalk in his outstretched right hand, and eraser in his 
outstretched left hand. He would write equations as he droned, and 
erased the information in the space between his hands. What a horrible 
experience that was!



bp


On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, 
etc. were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.


Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a 
plant out of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he 
suggested.   But I want to do Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was 
building industrial control systems with PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was 
a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll 
grow out of that.   Or not.


Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a 
perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to 
that exam and drew a complete blank.  Should have just slept, 
probably would have aced it.


Mark

On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:


Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things 
antenna and RF.

Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.
Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  
(those guys are called bit freaks)

Got a C- in integral calculus.
*From:* Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   
D’s get degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT 
/ PE exam? Why the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer.
Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with 
microwaves and antenna systems every day.
Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this 
shit over again.

Mark


On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the 
aluminum box into an antenna.
Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have 
a fear of heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But 
turning a Faraday cage into an antenna is probably not my best idea.

*From:*AF *On Behalf Of*Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest 
part with trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting 
AP’s close will help a lot.

Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure 
they'll pick WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put 
all the cards on the table.

As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every 
other ped) has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, 
then there's a security benefit vs having everybody in the park be 
able to sniff traffic from each other's devices.
2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV 
site (or at least to the proximity of one).
3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect 
anybody's WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no 
matter what.  Neither will the growth of trees hurt them.
4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of 
course always be upgraded).

5) Infinitely upgrade-able.
6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use 
them.  There's an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and 
improving our own network, but if they do it for the campground we 
can bill them out.

-Adam
On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream 
over the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly 
to the sectors that cover several RV campers.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam 
Moffettmailto:dmmoffett@gmail.comwrote:



Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and 
that's part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just 
thought it would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
I did find a comms enclosure 

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert]

Had a physics class with a prof who had us design a traffic light 
controller.   All the "hardy boys" did it with u-controllers... was 
pricey...  I did it with all analog/descrete components and got 1/4 the 
price..  Yeah, aced that class and got an offer from the prof to work 
with him on a signal detector... Highlight of my college time..
Unfortunately the prof got convicted of embezzling funds from his 
monster grant to work on his house  LOL...


On 6/12/20 7:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things 
antenna and RF.

Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.
Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  
(those guys are called bit freaks)

Got a C- in integral calculus.
*From:* Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-) D’s 
get degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE 
exam?   Why the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer.
Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with 
microwaves and antenna systems every day.
Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this 
shit over again.

Mark


On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the 
aluminum box into an antenna.
Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college. And I have a 
fear of heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning 
a Faraday cage into an antenna is probably not my best idea.

*From:*AF *On Behalf Of*Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
I like your solution actually.   Should work out well. Hardest part 
with trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s 
close will help a lot.

Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution. I'm sure they'll 
pick WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the 
cards on the table.

As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every 
other ped) has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, 
then there's a security benefit vs having everybody in the park be 
able to sniff traffic from each other's devices.
2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV 
site (or at least to the proximity of one).
3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect 
anybody's WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no 
matter what.  Neither will the growth of trees hurt them.
4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of 
course always be upgraded).

5) Infinitely upgrade-able.
6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  
There's an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and 
improving our own network, but if they do it for the campground we 
can bill them out.

-Adam
On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream 
over the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly 
to the sectors that cover several RV campers.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam 
Moffettmailto:dmmoffett@gmail.comwrote:



Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and 
that's part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just 
thought it would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the 
RV power ped.http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.

<http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>
Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might 
give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be 
two keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this 
approach are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing 
it with everybody around them, and if there was ever a law 
enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site 
rather than just "somewhere in the park".

On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi 
connections and doing a hardwire would be something that we 
_never_ plan for. Don't even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a 
post next to their power and water hookups. I'd want the campers 
to be able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the 
wherewithal to do so.  And if they don't then they have their 
own private WiFi right outsi

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to
  differential equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman.
  What a terrible professor! He lectured with his back to the class
  and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his outstretched right hand,
  and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would write equations
  as he droned, and erased the information in the space between his
  hands. What a horrible experience that was!


bp



On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh
  wrote:


  
  See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors,
  etc. were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those
  classes.   
  
  
  Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a
system for a plant out of a microcontroller instead of using a
PLC like he suggested.   But I want to do Microcontrollers.  
Yep, first job was building industrial control systems with
PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21
year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.
  
  
  Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session
managed to turn a perfectly good B+ in differential equations
into a D.   Walked in to that exam and drew a complete blank.
 Should have just slept, probably would have aced it.
  
  
  Mark

  
On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:


  
  

  
Those were the ONLY classes I cared
  about.  Got A’s in all things antenna and RF.
Got A’s in most of the linear stuff. 

 
Got the B’s in the digital crap that
  doesn’t matter to anyone  (those guys are
  called bit freaks)
Got a C- in integral calculus.  

  
 

  From: Mark Radabaugh
  
  Sent: Friday,
June 12, 2020 8:42 AM
  To: AnimalFarm
  Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re:
[AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

  
   

Hey,
  I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna
  systems :-)   D’s get degrees.   I’m never going
  to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why
  the hell would I ever work as a consulting
  engineer.
   
  Of course my first job is a
consulting engineer, and I deal with microwaves
and antenna systems every day.
   
  Ah, to know then what I know now.  
Just don’t make me do all this shit over again.
   
  Mark

  
On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM,
  Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com>
  wrote:
 

  
Makes
  you wonder if a wire and an alligator
  clip could turn the aluminum box into
  an antenna.
 
Yeah,
  fields & waves was not my best
  course in college.  And I have a fear
  of heights.  So of course I end up
  running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday
  cage into an antenna is probably not
  my best idea.
 
 

  
From: AF
  <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Mark
  Radabaugh
  Sent: Friday,
  June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
  To: AnimalFarm
  Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
  Subject: Re:
         

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

I drew a complete blank in the finite state machine final.  I know exactly what 
you mean.  I knew the stuff but it I think my FAT got corrupted or something.  
We are all pretty cocky 21 year olds I think.  

I was totally all about microcontrollers until I did my first PLC.  Then it 
was: “why did I ever want to do it the hard way”?

From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:22 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. were 
pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out of a 
microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want to do 
Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control systems with 
PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year old.   
Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a perfectly 
good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam and drew a 
complete blank.  Should have just slept, probably would have aced it.

Mark



  On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things antenna and 
RF.
  Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.  

  Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  (those 
guys are called bit freaks)
  Got a C- in integral calculus.  

  From: Mark Radabaugh 
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

  Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s get 
degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why 
the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer. 

  Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with microwaves 
and antenna systems every day.

  Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this shit over 
again.

  Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the aluminum 
box into an antenna.
 
Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a fear 
of heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage 
into an antenna is probably not my best idea.
 
 
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
 
I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with 
trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will help a 
lot.
 
Mark



  On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
   
  Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
  I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick 
WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the table.
  As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
  1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other 
ped) has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's a 
security benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff traffic from 
each other's devices.
  2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site 
(or at least to the proximity of one).
  3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect 
anybody's WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter what.  
Neither will the growth of trees hurt them.
  4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of course 
always be upgraded).
  5) Infinitely upgrade-able.
  6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  
There's an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and improving our own 
network, but if they do it for the campground we can bill them out.
  -Adam
   
   
  On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
Why are you doing fiber?
 
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over 
the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
 
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to 
the sectors that cover several RV campers.



  On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com 
wrote:

   
  Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's 
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be 
nice to have the option to plug in a cable. 
  I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/. 

  Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Mark Radabaugh]

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. were 
pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.   

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out of a 
microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want to do 
Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control systems with 
PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year old.   
Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a perfectly 
good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam and drew a 
complete blank.  Should have just slept, probably would have aced it.

Mark

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things antenna and 
> RF.
> Got A’s in most of the linear stuff. 
>  
> Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  (those 
> guys are called bit freaks)
> Got a C- in integral calculus. 
>  
> From: Mark Radabaugh <>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>  
> Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s get 
> degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why 
> the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer.
>  
> Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with microwaves 
> and antenna systems every day.
>  
> Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this shit over 
> again.
>  
> Mark
> 
>> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof > wrote:
>>  
>> Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the aluminum box 
>> into an antenna.
>>  
>> Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a fear 
>> of heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday 
>> cage into an antenna is probably not my best idea.
>>  
>>  
>> From: AF > On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
>> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>  
>> I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with 
>> trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will help 
>> a lot.
>>  
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett > wrote:
>>>  
>>> Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
>>> I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick 
>>> WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the 
>>> table.
>>> As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
>>> 1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other 
>>> ped) has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's a 
>>> security benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff traffic 
>>> from each other's devices.
>>> 2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site (or 
>>> at least to the proximity of one).
>>> 3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect anybody's 
>>> WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter what.  Neither 
>>> will the growth of trees hurt them.
>>> 4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of course 
>>> always be upgraded).
>>> 5) Infinitely upgrade-able.
>>> 6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  
>>> There's an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and improving our 
>>> own network, but if they do it for the campground we can bill them out.
>>> -Adam
>>>  
>>>  
>>> On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>>> Why are you doing fiber?
>>>>  
>>>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
>>>> Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>>>>  
>>>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
>>>> sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com <> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part 
>>>>> of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would b

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert]

I worked for IBM in H.S.   swore I'd never touch another computer in my 
life...   "How'd that work out for you?"   Oh why didn't I follow my 
heart and become a hermit on an island in the pacific...


On 6/12/20 7:42 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-) D’s 
get degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE 
exam?   Why the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer.


Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with 
microwaves and antenna systems every day.


Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this 
shit over again.


Mark

On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:


Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the 
aluminum box into an antenna.
Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college. And I have a 
fear of heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning 
a Faraday cage into an antenna is probably not my best idea.
*From:*AF <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>*On Behalf Of*Mark Radabaugh

*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
I like your solution actually.   Should work out well. Hardest part 
with trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s 
close will help a lot.

Mark


On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll 
pick WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the 
cards on the table.

As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every 
other ped) has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, 
then there's a security benefit vs having everybody in the park be 
able to sniff traffic from each other's devices.
2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV 
site (or at least to the proximity of one).
3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect 
anybody's WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no 
matter what. Neither will the growth of trees hurt them.
4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of 
course always be upgraded).

5) Infinitely upgrade-able.
6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  
There's an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and 
improving our own network, but if they do it for the campground we 
can bill them out.

-Adam
On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream 
over the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly 
to the sectors that cover several RV campers.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett 
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>wrote:



Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and 
that's part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal. I just 
thought it would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the 
RV power ped.http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.

<http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>
Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might 
give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be 
two keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this 
approach are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing 
it with everybody around them, and if there was ever a law 
enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site 
rather than just "somewhere in the park".

On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi 
connections and doing a hardwire would be something that we 
_never_ plan for.   Don't even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a 
post next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the 
campers to be able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have 
the wherewithal to do so.  And if they don't then they have 
their own private WiFi right outside their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this 
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for 
this already.




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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things antenna and 
RF.
Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.  

Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  (those guys 
are called bit freaks)
Got a C- in integral calculus.  

From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s get 
degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why 
the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer. 

Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with microwaves and 
antenna systems every day.

Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this shit over 
again.

Mark



  On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the aluminum box 
into an antenna.
   
  Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a fear of 
heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage 
into an antenna is probably not my best idea.
   
   
  From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
   
  I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with 
trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will help a 
lot.
   
  Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
 
Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick 
WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the table.
As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other 
ped) has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's a 
security benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff traffic from 
each other's devices.
2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site (or 
at least to the proximity of one).
3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect anybody's 
WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter what.  Neither 
will the growth of trees hurt them.
4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of course 
always be upgraded).
5) Infinitely upgrade-able.
6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  
There's an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and improving our own 
network, but if they do it for the campground we can bill them out.
-Adam
 
 
On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
  Why are you doing fiber?
   
  We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
   
  It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
sectors that cover several RV campers.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 
Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's 
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be 
nice to have the option to plug in a cable. 
I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/. 

Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give 
me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks 
in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets their 
own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if there was 
ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site 
rather than just "somewhere in the park". 
 
On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
  As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections 
and doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't even 
carry and ethernet cable... 

  On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 


If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site? 

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to plug 
Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And if they 
don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV. 

of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this 
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already. 




   
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
  

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

Assuming the metal box is a ped, not the trailer here

If you cut a half wavelength slot in the metal box, cover it with non metallic 
tape to keep the bugs out,
Then on the inside of the slot you put a quarter wave probe across the middle 
of the slot, you now have a sector antenna.
Might be best to cut it horizontally and make it a V pol.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:38 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the aluminum box 
into an antenna.

 

Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a fear of 
heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage 
into an antenna is probably not my best idea.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with 
trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will help a 
lot.

 

Mark





  On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

   

  Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.

  I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick WiFi 
because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the table.

  As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:

  1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other ped) 
has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's a security 
benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff traffic from each 
other's devices.

  2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site (or at 
least to the proximity of one).

  3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect anybody's 
WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter what.  Neither 
will the growth of trees hurt them.

  4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of course 
always be upgraded).

  5) Infinitely upgrade-able.

  6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  There's 
an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and improving our own network, 
but if they do it for the campground we can bill them out.

  -Adam

   

   

  On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?

 

We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.

 

It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
sectors that cover several RV campers.





  On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com 
wrote:

   

  Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part 
of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be nice to 
have the option to plug in a cable. 

  I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/. 


  Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me 
a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks in 
it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets their 
own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if there was 
ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site 
rather than just "somewhere in the park". 

   

  On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't even 
carry and ethernet cable... 

On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 



  If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site? 

  I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to plug 
Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And if they 
don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV. 

  of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, 
but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already. 




 

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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Mark Radabaugh]

Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s get 
degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why 
the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer.

Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with microwaves and 
antenna systems every day.

Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this shit over 
again.

Mark

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the aluminum box 
> into an antenna.
>  
> Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a fear of 
> heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage 
> into an antenna is probably not my best idea.
>  
>  
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Mark Radabaugh
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>  
> I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with 
> trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will help 
> a lot.
>  
> Mark
> 
> 
>> On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett > <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>  
>> Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
>> I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick 
>> WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the 
>> table.
>> As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
>> 1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other ped) 
>> has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's a 
>> security benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff traffic 
>> from each other's devices.
>> 2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site (or 
>> at least to the proximity of one).
>> 3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect anybody's 
>> WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter what.  Neither 
>> will the growth of trees hurt them.
>> 4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of course 
>> always be upgraded).
>> 5) Infinitely upgrade-able.
>> 6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  There's 
>> an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and improving our own 
>> network, but if they do it for the campground we can bill them out.
>> -Adam
>>  
>>  
>> On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> Why are you doing fiber?
>>>  
>>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
>>> Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>>>  
>>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
>>> sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  
>>>> <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part 
>>>> of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be 
>>>> nice to have the option to plug in a cable. 
>>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV power 
>>>> ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/. 
>>>>  <http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>
>>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me a 
>>>> place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks 
>>>> in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets 
>>>> their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if 
>>>> there was ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a 
>>>> particular site rather than just "somewhere in the park". 
>>>>  
>>>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>>>> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
>>>>> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't 
>>>>> even carry and ethernet cable... 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site? 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Ken Hohhof]

Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the aluminum box 
into an antenna.

 

Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a fear of 
heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage 
into an antenna is probably not my best idea.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with 
trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will help a 
lot.

 

Mark





On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.

I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick WiFi 
because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the table.

As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:

1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other ped) 
has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's a security 
benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff traffic from each 
other's devices.

2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site (or at 
least to the proximity of one).

3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect anybody's WiFi 
because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter what.  Neither will the 
growth of trees hurt them.

4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of course always 
be upgraded).

5) Infinitely upgrade-able.

6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  There's an 
indefinite amount of work for them expanding and improving our own network, but 
if they do it for the campground we can bill them out.

-Adam

 

 

On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?

 

We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.

 

It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
sectors that cover several RV campers.





On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
 wrote:

 

Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part of why 
I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be nice to have 
the option to plug in a cable. 

I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV power ped. 
http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.  
<http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/> 


Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me a 
place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks in 
it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets their 
own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if there was 
ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site 
rather than just "somewhere in the park". 

 

On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and doing a 
hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't even carry and 
ethernet cable... 

On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 



If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site? 

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next to their 
power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to plug Ethernet in 
at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And if they don't then they 
have their own private WiFi right outside their RV. 

of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, but I'm 
betting someone must have made a product for this already. 




 

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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Mark Radabaugh]

I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with 
trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will help a 
lot.

Mark

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
> 
> I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick WiFi 
> because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the table.
> 
> As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
> 
> 1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other ped) 
> has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's a 
> security benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff traffic 
> from each other's devices.
> 
> 2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site (or at 
> least to the proximity of one).
> 
> 3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect anybody's 
> WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter what.  Neither 
> will the growth of trees hurt them.
> 
> 4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of course 
> always be upgraded).
> 
> 5) Infinitely upgrade-able.
> 
> 6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  There's 
> an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and improving our own 
> network, but if they do it for the campground we can bill them out.
> 
> -Adam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> Why are you doing fiber?
>> 
>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
>> Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>> 
>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
>> sectors that cover several RV campers.
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part of 
>>> why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be nice 
>>> to have the option to plug in a cable. 
>>> 
>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV power 
>>> ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/. 
>>>  
>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me a 
>>> place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks 
>>> in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets 
>>> their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if 
>>> there was ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a 
>>> particular site rather than just "somewhere in the park". 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
 As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
 doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't even 
 carry and ethernet cable... 
 
 On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site? 
> 
> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next to 
> their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to plug 
> Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And if 
> they don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV. 
> 
> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, but 
> I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already. 
> 
> 
> 
 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert]

It _is_ a matter of what's legal or not.   LAWS preclude a private 
contract...  Whoa, you need to understand how the whole system works.   
Otherwise there would be a ton of contracts precluding certain races 
from buying in certain neighborhoods.. Or from riding certain buses.   
That RV park owner is just begging for a lawsuit at this point.   *I 
don't think you should be taking his/her side on any of this as it could 
include you in the liability*


On 6/12/20 5:08 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Hotspots are also restricted.

It’s not a matter of what’s legal or not via OTARD. No one comes into 
this not being aware of what the rules are. Nothing preclude a private 
contract from prohibiting someone from using a satellite antenna, you 
can agree or not agree to the contract.


I suppose if one of the campers wanted to fight it they probably 
could. We just provide the Wi-Fi the campsite makes the rules.



On Jun 12, 2020, at 7:56 AM, Tim Hardy  wrote:

 My read is the RV Park is on very shaky ground here.  Most RVs and 
trucks now have fixed antennas underneath radomes on the roof. 
 There’s just no basis for restricting one from receiving satellite 
signals through these antennas - as Chuck commented, are you going to 
knock on their door to ensure they are complying with this bogus 
restriction?  Where does it stop, what about cellular signals or LEOs 
with smaller terminals? If the park is somehow enforcing this rule, 
they are a prime target for a petition to the FCC. If this happens, 
99 out of 100 of those petitioned back down as they could end up 
being liable for legal fees on both sides.


Finally, from the FCC’s main OTARD information page there’s this:

*Q:  Does the rule apply to commercial property or only residential 
property?*


*sort by A: *Nothing in the rule excludes antennas installed on 
commercial property.  The rule applies to property used for 
commercial purposes in the same way it applies to residential property.



https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule


On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:44 PM, Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


I’m still confused. What’s the issue?

Tractor paying for night. In spot. Paying for WiFi.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


I don’t get your question.

They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi.

What is the issue?

On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:


I guess I should have said tractor.
-Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, 
June 11, 2020 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Who said anything about the middle of the road?



I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and 
therefore wouldn't fit in a space.


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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.

I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick 
WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the 
table.


As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:

1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other 
ped) has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's 
a security benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff 
traffic from each other's devices.


2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site 
(or at least to the proximity of one).


3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect 
anybody's WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter 
what.  Neither will the growth of trees hurt them.


4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of course 
always be upgraded).


5) Infinitely upgrade-able.

6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  
There's an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and improving 
our own network, but if they do it for the campground we can bill them out.


-Adam



On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?

We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over 
the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.


It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to 
the sectors that cover several RV campers.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:



Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's 
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal. I just thought it 
would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.


I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.



Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give 
me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two 
keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach 
are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with 
everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue 
we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just 
"somewhere in the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections 
and doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   
Don't even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be 
able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to 
do so.  And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi 
right outside their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this 
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
already.







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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Chuck McCown]

So, a guest of the park signs an agreement not to turn on a personal hotspot on 
their phone?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 6:08 AM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hotspots are also restricted.
> 
> It’s not a matter of what’s legal or not via OTARD. No one comes into this 
> not being aware of what the rules are. Nothing preclude a private contract 
> from prohibiting someone from using a satellite antenna, you can agree or not 
> agree to the contract.
> 
> I suppose if one of the campers wanted to fight it they probably could. We 
> just provide the Wi-Fi the campsite makes the rules.
> 
>>> On Jun 12, 2020, at 7:56 AM, Tim Hardy  wrote:
>>> 
>> My read is the RV Park is on very shaky ground here.  Most RVs and trucks 
>> now have fixed antennas underneath radomes on the roof.  There’s just no 
>> basis for restricting one from receiving satellite signals through these 
>> antennas - as Chuck commented, are you going to knock on their door to 
>> ensure they are complying with this bogus restriction?  Where does it stop, 
>> what about cellular signals or LEOs with smaller terminals? If the park is 
>> somehow enforcing this rule, they are a prime target for a petition to the 
>> FCC. If this happens, 99 out of 100 of those petitioned back down as they 
>> could end up being liable for legal fees on both sides.
>> 
>> Finally, from the FCC’s main OTARD information page there’s this:
>> 
>> Q:  Does the rule apply to commercial property or only residential property?
>> 
>> A:  Nothing in the rule excludes antennas installed on commercial property.  
>> The rule applies to property used for commercial purposes in the same way it 
>> applies to residential property.
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:44 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I’m still confused. What’s the issue?
>>> 
>>> Tractor paying for night. In spot. Paying for WiFi. 
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I don’t get your question. 
>>>> 
>>>> They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi. 
>>>> 
>>>> What is the issue?
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I guess I should have said tractor.  
>>>>> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 
>>>>> 2020 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 
>>>>>>> On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>>>> Who said anything about the middle of the road?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore 
>>>>> wouldn't fit in a space.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
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>>>>> 
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>>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Mark Radabaugh]

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 8:08 AM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> Hotspots are also restricted.

Now that one will get them into a shitload of trouble, especially if you try to 
actively block them:   
https://www.fcc.gov/document/marriott-pay-600k-resolve-wifi-blocking-investigation
 


Only cost Marriott $600,000 when the FCC wanted to make an example of them.

Mark

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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Mike Hammett]

I don't think anyone has an issue with this, but you. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Matt Hoppes"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 8:44:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 

I’m still confused. What’s the issue? 

Tractor paying for night. In spot. Paying for WiFi. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote: 
> 
> I don’t get your question. 
> 
> They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi. 
> 
> What is the issue? 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 
>> 
>> I guess I should have said tractor. 
>> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 
>> 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 
>>>> On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 
>>> Who said anything about the middle of the road? 
>> 
>> 
>> I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore wouldn't 
>> fit in a space. 
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

Hotspots are also restricted.

It’s not a matter of what’s legal or not via OTARD. No one comes into this not 
being aware of what the rules are. Nothing preclude a private contract from 
prohibiting someone from using a satellite antenna, you can agree or not agree 
to the contract.

I suppose if one of the campers wanted to fight it they probably could. We just 
provide the Wi-Fi the campsite makes the rules.

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 7:56 AM, Tim Hardy  wrote:
> 
> My read is the RV Park is on very shaky ground here.  Most RVs and trucks 
> now have fixed antennas underneath radomes on the roof.  There’s just no 
> basis for restricting one from receiving satellite signals through these 
> antennas - as Chuck commented, are you going to knock on their door to ensure 
> they are complying with this bogus restriction?  Where does it stop, what 
> about cellular signals or LEOs with smaller terminals? If the park is somehow 
> enforcing this rule, they are a prime target for a petition to the FCC. If 
> this happens, 99 out of 100 of those petitioned back down as they could end 
> up being liable for legal fees on both sides.
> 
> Finally, from the FCC’s main OTARD information page there’s this:
> 
> Q:  Does the rule apply to commercial property or only residential property?
> 
> A:  Nothing in the rule excludes antennas installed on commercial property.  
> The rule applies to property used for commercial purposes in the same way it 
> applies to residential property.
> 
> 
> https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule
> 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:44 PM, Matt Hoppes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I’m still confused. What’s the issue?
>> 
>> Tractor paying for night. In spot. Paying for WiFi. 
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don’t get your question. 
>>> 
>>> They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi. 
>>> 
>>> What is the issue?
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I guess I should have said tractor.  
>>>> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 
>>>> 2020 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 
>>>>>> On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>>> Who said anything about the middle of the road?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore 
>>>> wouldn't fit in a space.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
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>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Tim Hardy]

My read is the RV Park is on very shaky ground here.  Most RVs and trucks now 
have fixed antennas underneath radomes on the roof.  There’s just no basis for 
restricting one from receiving satellite signals through these antennas - as 
Chuck commented, are you going to knock on their door to ensure they are 
complying with this bogus restriction?  Where does it stop, what about cellular 
signals or LEOs with smaller terminals? If the park is somehow enforcing this 
rule, they are a prime target for a petition to the FCC. If this happens, 99 
out of 100 of those petitioned back down as they could end up being liable for 
legal fees on both sides.

Finally, from the FCC’s main OTARD information page there’s this:

Q:  Does the rule apply to commercial property or only residential property?

A:  Nothing in the rule excludes antennas installed on commercial property.  
The rule applies to property used for commercial purposes in the same way it 
applies to residential property.


https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule 
<https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule>


> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:44 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> I’m still confused. What’s the issue?
> 
> Tractor paying for night. In spot. Paying for WiFi. 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Matt Hoppes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t get your question. 
>> 
>> They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi. 
>> 
>> What is the issue?
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> I guess I should have said tractor.  
>>> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 
>>> 2020 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 
>>>>> On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>> Who said anything about the middle of the road?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore 
>>> wouldn't fit in a space.
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert]

Yeah, I am pretty certain that if I was staying there and someone said I 
had to buy wifi, I would tell them to pound sand. And if they then tried 
to kick me out, I would drop a dime to the local constable, and after 
that to my retained lawyer, he loves making money on that kind of monkey 
business.   He's written three OTARD letters over the years and loves 
hearing from HOA's, haven't paid his fees for any of them and he made 
enough $$ off the first one, which went to court, to pay his fees for a 
long while.   Yeah OTARD has teeth.   We have a bunch of very badly 
written HOA agreements here in my neck of the woods.   The only one I 
didn't fight was the stupid one my house is in, because you don't ... in 
your own bed..



On 6/11/20 7:25 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Q:  Does the rule apply to commercial property or only residential property?

A:  Nothing in the rule excludes antennas installed on commercial property.  
The rule applies to property used for commercial purposes in the same way it 
applies to residential property.

Source:  https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 7:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I see. Well that’s illegal in the parks we manage and security would be over in 
a flash.

I’m aware of continental. Which is interesting since OTARD doesn’t apply to 
commercial.


On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes  
wrote:

Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?

Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep.


On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?


On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable or 
roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellit
e/dp/B074CPRJSD

Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you don't have to pay 
an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the road in summer.  We have a farm 
customer that uses their "mobile" dish at their scalehouse during harvest.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?

-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite dishes 
are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to the camp 
owner.

And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.


On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews

wrote:

How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.


On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream
over the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly
to the sectors that cover several RV campers.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:



Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and
that's part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just
thought it would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.

I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of
the RV power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
<http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>

Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be
two keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this
approach are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing
it with everybody around them, and if there was ever a law
enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just 
"somewhere in the park".


On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and
doing a hardwire would be something that we 

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert]

What's the issue...?  "Buy WiFi"   most truckers aren't looking for more 
ways to spend $$...  That's why they have complete setups on the back of 
their tractors...


On 6/11/20 6:43 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

I don’t get your question.

They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi.

What is the issue?


On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I guess I should have said tractor.
-Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 
7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Who said anything about the middle of the road?


I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore wouldn't 
fit in a space.

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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert]

It may be prohibited, but I would seriously doubt if it was illegal by 
the local authority.  They do have laws prohibiting semi's from parking 
on residential streets due to street width restrictions and areas that 
are noise sensitive due to them running their generators all night.


On 6/11/20 5:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

I see. Well that’s illegal in the parks we manage and security would be over in 
a flash.

I’m aware of continental. Which is interesting since OTARD doesn’t apply to 
commercial.


On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes  
wrote:

Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?

Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep.


On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?


On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable or 
roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD

Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you don't have to pay 
an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the road in summer.  We have a farm 
customer that uses their "mobile" dish at their scalehouse during harvest.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?

-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite dishes 
are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to the camp 
owner.

And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.


On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.


On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
the sectors that cover several RV campers.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:



Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.

I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
<http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>

Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two
keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with
everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue
we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just "somewhere in the 
park".


On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and
doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't
even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be
able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.
And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right
outside their RV.

of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already.




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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Ken Hohhof]

Q:  Does the rule apply to commercial property or only residential property?

A:  Nothing in the rule excludes antennas installed on commercial property.  
The rule applies to property used for commercial purposes in the same way it 
applies to residential property.

Source:  https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 7:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I see. Well that’s illegal in the parks we manage and security would be over in 
a flash. 

I’m aware of continental. Which is interesting since OTARD doesn’t apply to 
commercial. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?
>> 
>> Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep. 
>> 
>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>> 
>>> Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?
>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable 
>>>> or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like 
>>>> this:
>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellit
>>>> e/dp/B074CPRJSD
>>>> 
>>>> Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you 
>>>> don't have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the 
>>>> road in summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at 
>>>> their scalehouse during harvest.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>>> 
>>>> So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
>>>> radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching 
>>>> TV?
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Matt Hoppes
>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>>> 
>>>> OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
>>>> dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging 
>>>> to the camp owner.
>>>> 
>>>> And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
>>>>> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
>>>>> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
>>>>> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>>>>> Why are you doing fiber?
>>>>>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream 
>>>>>> over the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>>>>>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly 
>>>>>> to the sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and 
>>>>>>> that's part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just 
>>>>>>> thought it would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of 
>>>>>>> the RV power ped. http://www.rvparksupplie

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

The issue is many nice tractors with the nice large sleepers have a mobile 
satellite under a radome on the back side of the sleeper.  You said they 
cannot use it.  I asked if you are going to bang on their door and ask them 
if they were watching TV.


-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 7:44 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I’m still confused. What’s the issue?

Tractor paying for night. In spot. Paying for WiFi.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:


I don’t get your question.

They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi.

What is the issue?


On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I guess I should have said tractor.
-Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 
2020 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Who said anything about the middle of the road?



I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore 
wouldn't fit in a space.


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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

I’m still confused. What’s the issue?

Tractor paying for night. In spot. Paying for WiFi. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> I don’t get your question. 
> 
> They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi. 
> 
> What is the issue?
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> 
>> I guess I should have said tractor.  
>> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 
>> 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 
>>>> On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> Who said anything about the middle of the road?
>> 
>> 
>> I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore wouldn't 
>> fit in a space.
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

I don’t get your question. 

They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi. 

What is the issue?

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> I guess I should have said tractor.  
> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 
> 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 
>> On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> Who said anything about the middle of the road?
> 
> 
> I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore wouldn't 
> fit in a space.
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

I guess I should have said tractor.  

-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 7:22 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 


On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Who said anything about the middle of the road?



I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore 
wouldn't fit in a space.


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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Seth Mattinen]

On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Who said anything about the middle of the road?



I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore 
wouldn't fit in a space.


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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

Who said anything about the middle of the road?

I said:  "So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat 
under the radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are 
watching TV?"


So, are you?

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 7:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I’m sure they could stay. But not in the middle of the road. They would need 
to be in an assigned space.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:57 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Interesting.  You do not want truckers as customers.  They just want a 
shower and to use the laundry and pool if it is available, and their truck 
will not get messed with in an RV park.  But it is illegal to be a 
customer?


-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:44 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I see. Well that’s illegal in the parks we manage and security would be 
over in a flash.


I’m aware of continental. Which is interesting since OTARD doesn’t apply 
to commercial.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:


Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?

Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to 
sleep.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:


I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?


On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:


I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a 
portable or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims 
itself.  Like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD

Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you 
don't have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit 
the road in summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" 
dish at their scalehouse during harvest.



-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under 
the radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are 
watching TV?


-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the 
satellite dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the 
land belonging to the camp owner.


And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground 
is.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear 
violation
of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our 
satellite

dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.


On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
the sectors that cover several RV campers.
On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:




Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.

I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the 
RV

power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
<http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>

Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be 
two

keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with
everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement 
issue
we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just 
"somewhere in the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi 
connections and
doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for. 
Don't

even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a 
post
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to 
be
able to plug Ether

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

I’m sure they could stay. But not in the middle of the road. They would need to 
be in an assigned space. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:57 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> Interesting.  You do not want truckers as customers.  They just want a 
> shower and to use the laundry and pool if it is available, and their truck 
> will not get messed with in an RV park.  But it is illegal to be a customer?
> 
> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:44 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
> 
> I see. Well that’s illegal in the parks we manage and security would be over 
> in a flash.
> 
> I’m aware of continental. Which is interesting since OTARD doesn’t apply to 
> commercial.
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> 
>> Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?
>>> 
>>> Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep.
>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>>> 
>>>> Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a 
>>>>> portable or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself. 
>>>>>  Like this:
>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD
>>>>> 
>>>>> Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you 
>>>>> don't have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the 
>>>>> road in summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at 
>>>>> their scalehouse during harvest.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>>>> 
>>>>> So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under 
>>>>> the radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are 
>>>>> watching TV?
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: Matt Hoppes
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>>>> 
>>>>> OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
>>>>> dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging 
>>>>> to the camp owner.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
>>>>>> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
>>>>>> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>>>>>> Why are you doing fiber?
>>>>>>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
>>>>>>> the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>>>>>>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
>>>>>>> the sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choi

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

Interesting.  You do not want truckers as customers.  They just want a 
shower and to use the laundry and pool if it is available, and their truck 
will not get messed with in an RV park.  But it is illegal to be a customer?


-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:44 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I see. Well that’s illegal in the parks we manage and security would be over 
in a flash.


I’m aware of continental. Which is interesting since OTARD doesn’t apply to 
commercial.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:


Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?

Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to 
sleep.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:


I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?


On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:


I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a 
portable or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims 
itself.  Like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD

Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you 
don't have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the 
road in summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish 
at their scalehouse during harvest.



-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under 
the radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are 
watching TV?


-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land 
belonging to the camp owner.


And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground 
is.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear 
violation
of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our 
satellite

dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.


On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
the sectors that cover several RV campers.
On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:




Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.

I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
<http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>

Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two
keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with
everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue
we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just 
"somewhere in the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections 
and
doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for. 
Don't

even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to 
be
able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal 
to do so.

And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right
outside their RV.

of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for 
this already.







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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

I see. Well that’s illegal in the parks we manage and security would be over in 
a flash. 

I’m aware of continental. Which is interesting since OTARD doesn’t apply to 
commercial. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?
>> 
>> Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep. 
>> 
>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>> 
>>> Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?
>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable 
>>>> or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like 
>>>> this:
>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD
>>>> 
>>>> Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you 
>>>> don't have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the 
>>>> road in summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at 
>>>> their scalehouse during harvest.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>>> 
>>>> So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
>>>> radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching 
>>>> TV?
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Matt Hoppes
>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>>> 
>>>> OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
>>>> dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging 
>>>> to the camp owner.
>>>> 
>>>> And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
>>>>> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
>>>>> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>>>>> Why are you doing fiber?
>>>>>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
>>>>>> the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>>>>>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
>>>>>> the sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
>>>>>>> part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
>>>>>>> would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV
>>>>>>> power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
>>>>>>> <http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
>>>>>>> give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two
>>>>>>> keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
>>>>>>> are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Chuck McCown]

Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?
> 
> Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep. 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> 
>> I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>> 
>> Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?
>> 
>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable 
>>> or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like this:
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD
>>> 
>>> Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you don't 
>>> have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the road in 
>>> summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at their 
>>> scalehouse during harvest.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>> 
>>> So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
>>> radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Matt Hoppes
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>> 
>>> OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
>>> dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to 
>>> the camp owner.
>>> 
>>> And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
>>>> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
>>>> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>>>> 
>>>>>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>>>> Why are you doing fiber?
>>>>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
>>>>> the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>>>>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
>>>>> the sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
>>>>>> part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
>>>>>> would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV
>>>>>> power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
>>>>>> <http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
>>>>>> give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two
>>>>>> keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
>>>>>> are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with
>>>>>> everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue
>>>>>> we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just 
>>>>>> "somewhere in the park".
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>>>>>> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and
>>>>>>> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't
>>>>>>> even carry and ethernet cable

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Ken Hohhof]

Interesting question about OTARD applicability.  If I rent an apartment, the 
landlord cannot stop me from putting a satellite dish on my exclusive space, I 
just can't put it on a common area.  But I'm going to assume I can't put a 
satellite dish on the balcony of a hotel room.  Not sure what is different 
between a rental apartment and a hotel room.

I don't follow your argument about a commercial environment.  Because the park 
rents spaces for profit?  So does an apartment building.  I don't see how OTARD 
only applies to non profits.  Are you saying it is like a rental office?  Not 
sure I buy that, but if it was true, I'm not sure if OTARD applies to rental 
office space.  I think one of the landmark cases involved the Continental 
Airlines lounge at Boston Logan Aireport.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?

Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
> 
> Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> 
>> I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable 
>> or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like this:
>> https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/
>> dp/B074CPRJSD
>> 
>> Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you don't 
>> have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the road in 
>> summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at their 
>> scalehouse during harvest.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>> 
>> So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
>> radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>> 
>> OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
>> dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to 
>> the camp owner.
>> 
>> And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
>>> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
>>> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>>> 
>>>>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>>> Why are you doing fiber?
>>>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream 
>>>> over the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>>>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly 
>>>> to the sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and 
>>>>> that's part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just 
>>>>> thought it would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the 
>>>>> RV power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
>>>>> <http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might 
>>>>> give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be 
>>>>> two keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this 
>>>>> approach are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing 
>>>>> it with everybody around them, and if there was ever a law 
>>>>> enforcement issue we cou

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?

Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
> 
> Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> 
>> I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable 
>> or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like this:
>> https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD
>> 
>> Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you don't 
>> have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the road in 
>> summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at their 
>> scalehouse during harvest.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>> 
>> So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
>> radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>> 
>> OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
>> dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to 
>> the camp owner.
>> 
>> And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
>>> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
>>> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>>> 
>>>>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>>> Why are you doing fiber?
>>>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
>>>> the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>>>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
>>>> the sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
>>>>> part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
>>>>> would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV
>>>>> power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
>>>>> <http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
>>>>> give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two
>>>>> keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
>>>>> are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with
>>>>> everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue
>>>>> we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just "somewhere 
>>>>> in the park".
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>>>>> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and
>>>>>> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't
>>>>>> even carry and ethernet cable...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>>>>>>> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post
>>>>>>>> next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be
>>>>>>>> able to plug Ethernet in at the box if th

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?


On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable 
or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like 
this:

https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD

Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you 
don't have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the 
road in summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at 
their scalehouse during harvest.



-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching 
TV?


-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging 
to the camp owner.


And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.


On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.


On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
the sectors that cover several RV campers.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:




Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.

I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
<http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>

Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two
keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with
everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue
we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just 
"somewhere in the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections 
and

doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't
even carry and ethernet cable...

On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be
able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to 
do so.

And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right
outside their RV.

of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
already.







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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable or 
> roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like this:
> https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD
> 
> Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you don't 
> have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the road in 
> summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at their 
> scalehouse during harvest.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
> 
> So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
> radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
> 
> OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
> dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to 
> the camp owner.
> 
> And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation 
>> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite 
>> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>> 
>>>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> Why are you doing fiber?
>>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over 
>>> the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to 
>>> the sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's 
>>>> part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it 
>>>> would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
>>>> 
>>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
>>>> power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
>>>> <http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>
>>>> 
>>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might 
>>>> give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two 
>>>> keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach 
>>>> are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with 
>>>> everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue 
>>>> we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just "somewhere 
>>>> in the park".
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>>>> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
>>>>> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't 
>>>>> even carry and ethernet cable...
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>>>>> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
>>>>>> next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be 
>>>>>> able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do 
>>>>>> so.
>>>>>> And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right 
>>>>>> outside their RV.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this 
>>>>>> together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
>>>>>> already.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Ken Hohhof]

I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable or 
roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD

Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you don't 
have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the road in 
summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at their 
scalehouse during harvest.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?

-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite dishes 
are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to the camp 
owner.

And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation 
> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite 
> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>
>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> Why are you doing fiber?
>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over 
>> the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to 
>> the sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's 
>>> part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it 
>>> would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
>>>
>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
>>> power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
>>> <http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>
>>>
>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might 
>>> give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two 
>>> keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach 
>>> are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with 
>>> everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue 
>>> we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just "somewhere 
>>> in the park".
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>>> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
>>>> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't 
>>>> even carry and ethernet cable...
>>>>
>>>> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>>>> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
>>>>> next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be 
>>>>> able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.
>>>>> And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right 
>>>>> outside their RV.
>>>>>
>>>>> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this 
>>>>> together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
>>>>> already.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Chris Fabien]

We did a fiber fed unifi system in a 150 site RV campground and it has
worked out quite well. Active Ethernet with BiDi optics to a Ubnt Fiber POE
and Unifi AP mounted on a 4x4 post between sites or on a building. Hid a
24V 1A POE inside the nearest power pedestal and a short buried cat5 to
feed fiber to each post. Two loops of 12F flat drop cable buried along the
road, homerun back to a small network cabinet in the office. I caution
anyone looking at a campground network to carefully set expectations with
management, if you want guaranteed wifi inside all campers, you're probably
going to need one AP per two sites. With our deployment you can use wifi
outside in most areas and inside some campers and not inside others. And
coverage varies considerably with RVs moving in and out and all kinds of
interfering wifi networks, repeaters, hotspots etc. We basically handle any
complaints as, we'd be happy to come install another AP to improve signal
in that location, here's the cost. They haven't had us back out yet.

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 4:31 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
>
> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next
> to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to
> plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And
> if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV.
>
> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together,
> but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already.
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?


-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to 
the camp owner.


And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews  
wrote:


How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation 
of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite 
dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.



On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
sectors that cover several RV campers.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:




Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part 
of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be 
nice to have the option to plug in a cable.


I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.

<http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>

Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me 
a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone 
jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each 
RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, 
and if there was ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage 
to a particular site rather than just "somewhere in the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't 
even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next 
to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to 
plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so. 
And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside 
their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, 
but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already.







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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite dishes 
are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to the camp 
owner.

And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews  wrote:
> 
> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation of 
> FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite dish 
> it's fully enclosed and not visible.
> 
>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> Why are you doing fiber?
>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
>> Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
>> sectors that cover several RV campers.
 On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part of 
>>> why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be nice 
>>> to have the option to plug in a cable.
>>> 
>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV power 
>>> ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me a 
>>> place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks 
>>> in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets 
>>> their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if 
>>> there was ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a 
>>> particular site rather than just "somewhere in the park".
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
 As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
 doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't even 
 carry and ethernet cable...
 
 On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
> 
> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next to 
> their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to plug 
> Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And if 
> they don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV.
> 
> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, but 
> I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already.
> 
> 
> 
 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert Andrews]

How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation 
of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite 
dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.


On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?

We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.


It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
sectors that cover several RV campers.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:



Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's 
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it 
would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.


I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.



Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give 
me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two 
keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are 
that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody 
around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue we could 
track the usage to a particular site rather than just "somewhere in 
the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections 
and doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   
Don't even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be 
able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to 
do so.  And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi 
right outside their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this 
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
already.







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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Trey Scarborough]

Ive used mikrotik RB922UAGS-5HPacD with sfp and 2.4g R11e-2HPnD inside a 
metal enclosure and external antennas.


On 6/11/2020 4:03 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's 
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it 
would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.


I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.



Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give 
me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two 
keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are 
that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody 
around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue we could 
track the usage to a particular site rather than just "somewhere in 
the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections 
and doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   
Don't even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be 
able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to 
do so.  And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi 
right outside their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this 
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
already.









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VP Engineering
3DS Communications LLC
p:9729741539

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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

Why are you doing fiber?

We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.

It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
sectors that cover several RV campers.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> 
> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part of 
> why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be nice to 
> have the option to plug in a cable. 
> 
> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV power 
> ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/. 
> 
> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me a 
> place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks in 
> it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets their 
> own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if there was 
> ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site 
> rather than just "somewhere in the park". 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
>> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't even 
>> carry and ethernet cable... 
>> 
>>> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
>>> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site? 
>>> 
>>> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next to 
>>> their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to plug 
>>> Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And if they 
>>> don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV. 
>>> 
>>> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, but 
>>> I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part 
of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be 
nice to have the option to plug in a cable.


I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.



Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me 
a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone 
jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each 
RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, 
and if there was ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage 
to a particular site rather than just "somewhere in the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections 
and doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   
Don't even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be 
able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to 
do so.  And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right 
outside their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, 
but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already.






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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert Andrews]

As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't 
even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next 
to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to 
plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And 
if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, 
but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already.






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[AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next 
to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to 
plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And 
if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, 
but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already.




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