Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

[Mathew Howard]

The ARC Wireless and Ubnt RD-5G30 appear to be almost the same, physically
(ARC has N connectors, and different mounting hardware, but the dish itself
looks pretty much exactly the same)... I prefer the Ubnt RD-5G30LW over
either.

On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 11:16 PM, Faisal Imtiaz 
wrote:

> Specs wise both the Arc Wireless and Ubnt RD-5G30 do look very similar,
> Arc's spreadsheets claims that their pattern is cleaner no side lobes on
> the H-Plane.
>
> If you were to look for another Dish antenna with a good value (specs and
> price wise)
> Look at the Jirous JRC-29 Extreme .. a wee bit less on the gain, but
> considering it comes with a Radome and shroud.. it is also known to be an
> excellent performer.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net
>
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <(305)%20663-5518>
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
> supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"David Coudron" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, January 21, 2018 10:04:56 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30
>
> We love the KP Performance antennas for the CPEs, but haven’t used them
> yet for backhaul.   Have you been using them for that as well?   We were
> worried the wider beamwidth would catch too much other noise.  Or maybe
> that hasn’t been an issue?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:56 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30
>
>
>
> Right now the best antenna we have tested at 30dBi has been the KP
> Performance antennas.  We will be testing the RF Elements antennas next.
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *David Coudron
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 21, 2018 6:49 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30
>
>
>
> We have traditionally been using the Arc Wireless 30 dBi 5 GHz parabolic
> dish for our shorter backhaul links when using 5 GHz.   The have been OK,
> but we have a tough time getting them and the radomes from time to time.
> We are in that situation again.   They are priced quite competitively, and
> seem to do the job, however we are looking for options since they are so
> spotty to get ahold of.   We have messed around with the Ubiquiti
> RocketDish for CPE connectorized radios, but haven’t tried them out for
> backhaul as of yet.  The specs appear to be very similar and I expect
> they’d perform about the same other than the N-Type vs SMA connectors.
> Anyone have experience with both of these dishes?   Or is there a better
> alternative that we should be looking at in the $120 range (dish only)?
>
>
>
> Regard,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

[Faisal Imtiaz]

"spreadsheet" should have been "data sheet" 

.. It's getting late.. I need to go to bed ! 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Faisal Imtiaz" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 12:16:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> Specs wise both the Arc Wireless and Ubnt RD-5G30 do look very similar,
> Arc's spreadsheets claims that their pattern is cleaner no side lobes on the
> H-Plane.

> If you were to look for another Dish antenna with a good value (specs and 
> price
> wise)
> Look at the Jirous JRC-29 Extreme .. a wee bit less on the gain, but 
> considering
> it comes with a Radome and shroud.. it is also known to be an excellent
> performer.

> Regards

> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net

> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>> From: "David Coudron" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 10:04:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

>> We love the KP Performance antennas for the CPEs, but haven’t used them yet 
>> for
>> backhaul. Have you been using them for that as well? We were worried the 
>> wider
>> beamwidth would catch too much other noise. Or maybe that hasn’t been an 
>> issue?

>> Thanks,

>> David Coudron

>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:56 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

>> Right now the best antenna we have tested at 30dBi has been the KP 
>> Performance
>> antennas. We will be testing the RF Elements antennas next.

>> Rory

>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of David Coudron
>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 6:49 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

>> We have traditionally been using the Arc Wireless 30 dBi 5 GHz parabolic dish
>> for our shorter backhaul links when using 5 GHz. The have been OK, but we 
>> have
>> a tough time getting them and the radomes from time to time. We are in that
>> situation again. They are priced quite competitively, and seem to do the job,
>> however we are looking for options since they are so spotty to get ahold of. 
>> We
>> have messed around with the Ubiquiti RocketDish for CPE connectorized radios,
>> but haven’t tried them out for backhaul as of yet. The specs appear to be 
>> very
>> similar and I expect they’d perform about the same other than the N-Type vs 
>> SMA
>> connectors. Anyone have experience with both of these dishes? Or is there a
>> better alternative that we should be looking at in the $120 range (dish 
>> only)?

>> Regard,

>> David Coudron

Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

[Faisal Imtiaz]

LOL ! please re-read what I wrote ... 

I re-affirmed your observation that the KP Performance Reflectors are very good 
at noise rejection. 
I also offered an explanation as to why that is so. 
I also said, you can test as much as you like, you are not going to change the 
fact that physics explain why the Reflector is very good at noise rejection. 

:) 

Nighty Night ! 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Rory Conaway" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 12:10:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> Seriously. Please explain where my conclusion violated physics?

> Rory

> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 10:02 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> You can test as much as you like..
> simple physics will still stay the same :)

> Regards.

> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net

> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>> From: "Rory Conaway" < r...@triadwireless.net >
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 11:57:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30
>> We have done a lot more testing than that and I’m probably late to the party 
>> but
>> yes, they have turned out to be the best so far.

>> Rory

>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 9:55 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

>> If you are referring to the KP Performance Reflectors...

>> YES, Absolutely the best in noise rejection

>> and if you are wondering why ? just look at the direction the radio's back 
>> side
>> tends to be when it is properly installed !

>> :)

>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> http://www.snappytelecom.net

>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>>> From: "Rory Conaway" < r...@triadwireless.net >
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 10:26:52 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30
>>> It hasn’t been an issue. They seem to reject noise better. I just posted a
>>> recent comparison of them versus the PowerBeam 620/Prism on Facebook. We
>>> already knew they were better than the AF-23 antenna since we did that test 
>>> but
>>> that wasn’t a fair comparison due to the gain difference.

>>> Rory

>>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of David Coudron
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:05 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

>>> We love the KP Performance antennas for the CPEs, but haven’t used them yet 
>>> for
>>> backhaul. Have you been using them for that as well? We were worried the 
>>> wider
>>> beamwidth would catch too much other noise. Or maybe that hasn’t been an 
>>> issue?

>>> Thanks,

>>> David Coudron

>>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:56 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

>>> Right now the best antenna we have tested at 30dBi has been the KP 
>>> Performance
>>> antennas. We will be testing the RF Elements antennas next.

>>> Rory

>>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of David Coudron
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 6:49 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

>>> We have traditionally been using the Arc Wireless 30 dBi 5 GHz parabolic 
>>> dish
>>> for our shorter backhaul links when using 5 GHz. The have been OK, but we 
>>> have
>>> a tough time getting them and the radomes from time to time. We are in that
>>> situation again. They are priced quite competitively, and seem to do the 
>>> job,
>>> however we are looking for options since they are so spotty to get ahold 
>>> of. We
>>> have messed around with the Ubiquiti RocketDish for CPE connectorized 
>>> radios,
>>> but haven’t tried them out for backhaul as of yet. The specs appear to be 
>>> very
>>> similar and I expect they’d perform about the same other than the N-Type vs 
>>> SMA
>>> connectors. Anyone have experience with both of these dishes? Or is there a
>>> better alternative that we should be looking at in the $120 range (dish 
>>> only)?

>>> Regard,

>>> David Coudron

Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Specs wise both the Arc Wireless and Ubnt RD-5G30 do look very similar, 
Arc's spreadsheets claims that their pattern is cleaner no side lobes on the 
H-Plane. 

If you were to look for another Dish antenna with a good value (specs and price 
wise) 
Look at the Jirous JRC-29 Extreme .. a wee bit less on the gain, but 
considering it comes with a Radome and shroud.. it is also known to be an 
excellent performer. 

Regards 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "David Coudron" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 10:04:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> We love the KP Performance antennas for the CPEs, but haven’t used them yet 
> for
> backhaul. Have you been using them for that as well? We were worried the wider
> beamwidth would catch too much other noise. Or maybe that hasn’t been an 
> issue?

> Thanks,

> David Coudron

> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:56 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> Right now the best antenna we have tested at 30dBi has been the KP Performance
> antennas. We will be testing the RF Elements antennas next.

> Rory

> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of David Coudron
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 6:49 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> We have traditionally been using the Arc Wireless 30 dBi 5 GHz parabolic dish
> for our shorter backhaul links when using 5 GHz. The have been OK, but we have
> a tough time getting them and the radomes from time to time. We are in that
> situation again. They are priced quite competitively, and seem to do the job,
> however we are looking for options since they are so spotty to get ahold of. 
> We
> have messed around with the Ubiquiti RocketDish for CPE connectorized radios,
> but haven’t tried them out for backhaul as of yet. The specs appear to be very
> similar and I expect they’d perform about the same other than the N-Type vs 
> SMA
> connectors. Anyone have experience with both of these dishes? Or is there a
> better alternative that we should be looking at in the $120 range (dish only)?

> Regard,

> David Coudron

Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

[Rory Conaway]

Seriously.  Please explain where my conclusion violated physics?

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 10:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

You can test as much as you like..
simple physics will still stay the same :)

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net


From: "Rory Conaway" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 11:57:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30
We have done a lot more testing than that and I’m probably late to the party 
but yes, they have turned out to be the best so far.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 9:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

If you are referring to the KP Performance Reflectors...
YES, Absolutely the best in noise rejection

and if you are wondering why ? just look at the direction the radio's back side 
tends to be when it is properly installed !

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net


From: "Rory Conaway" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 10:26:52 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30
It hasn’t been an issue.  They seem to reject noise better.  I just posted a 
recent comparison of them versus the PowerBeam 620/Prism on Facebook.  We 
already knew they were better than the AF-23 antenna since we did that test but 
that wasn’t a fair comparison due to the gain difference.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

We love the KP Performance antennas for the CPEs, but haven’t used them yet for 
backhaul.   Have you been using them for that as well?   We were worried the 
wider beamwidth would catch too much other noise.  Or maybe that hasn’t been an 
issue?

Thanks,

David Coudron

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

Right now the best antenna we have tested at 30dBi has been the KP Performance 
antennas.  We will be testing the RF Elements antennas next.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 6:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

We have traditionally been using the Arc Wireless 30 dBi 5 GHz parabolic dish 
for our shorter backhaul links when using 5 GHz.   The have been OK, but we 
have a tough time getting them and the radomes from time to time.   We are in 
that situation again.   They are priced quite competitively, and seem to do the 
job, however we are looking for options since they are so spotty to get ahold 
of.   We have messed around with the Ubiquiti RocketDish for CPE connectorized 
radios, but haven’t tried them out for backhaul as of yet.  The specs appear to 
be very similar and I expect they’d perform about the same other than the 
N-Type vs SMA connectors. Anyone have experience with both of these dishes?   
Or is there a better alternative that we should be looking at in the $120 range 
(dish only)?

Regard,

David Coudron

Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

[Faisal Imtiaz]

You can test as much as you like.. 
simple physics will still stay the same :) 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Rory Conaway" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 11:57:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> We have done a lot more testing than that and I’m probably late to the party 
> but
> yes, they have turned out to be the best so far.

> Rory

> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 9:55 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> If you are referring to the KP Performance Reflectors...

> YES, Absolutely the best in noise rejection

> and if you are wondering why ? just look at the direction the radio's back 
> side
> tends to be when it is properly installed !

> :)

> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net

> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>> From: "Rory Conaway" < r...@triadwireless.net >
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 10:26:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30
>> It hasn’t been an issue. They seem to reject noise better. I just posted a
>> recent comparison of them versus the PowerBeam 620/Prism on Facebook. We
>> already knew they were better than the AF-23 antenna since we did that test 
>> but
>> that wasn’t a fair comparison due to the gain difference.

>> Rory

>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of David Coudron
>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:05 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

>> We love the KP Performance antennas for the CPEs, but haven’t used them yet 
>> for
>> backhaul. Have you been using them for that as well? We were worried the 
>> wider
>> beamwidth would catch too much other noise. Or maybe that hasn’t been an 
>> issue?

>> Thanks,

>> David Coudron

>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:56 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

>> Right now the best antenna we have tested at 30dBi has been the KP 
>> Performance
>> antennas. We will be testing the RF Elements antennas next.

>> Rory

>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of David Coudron
>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 6:49 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

>> We have traditionally been using the Arc Wireless 30 dBi 5 GHz parabolic dish
>> for our shorter backhaul links when using 5 GHz. The have been OK, but we 
>> have
>> a tough time getting them and the radomes from time to time. We are in that
>> situation again. They are priced quite competitively, and seem to do the job,
>> however we are looking for options since they are so spotty to get ahold of. 
>> We
>> have messed around with the Ubiquiti RocketDish for CPE connectorized radios,
>> but haven’t tried them out for backhaul as of yet. The specs appear to be 
>> very
>> similar and I expect they’d perform about the same other than the N-Type vs 
>> SMA
>> connectors. Anyone have experience with both of these dishes? Or is there a
>> better alternative that we should be looking at in the $120 range (dish 
>> only)?

>> Regard,

>> David Coudron

Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

[Rory Conaway]

We have done a lot more testing than that and I’m probably late to the party 
but yes, they have turned out to be the best so far.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 9:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

If you are referring to the KP Performance Reflectors...
YES, Absolutely the best in noise rejection

and if you are wondering why ? just look at the direction the radio's back side 
tends to be when it is properly installed !

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net


From: "Rory Conaway" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 10:26:52 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30
It hasn’t been an issue.  They seem to reject noise better.  I just posted a 
recent comparison of them versus the PowerBeam 620/Prism on Facebook.  We 
already knew they were better than the AF-23 antenna since we did that test but 
that wasn’t a fair comparison due to the gain difference.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

We love the KP Performance antennas for the CPEs, but haven’t used them yet for 
backhaul.   Have you been using them for that as well?   We were worried the 
wider beamwidth would catch too much other noise.  Or maybe that hasn’t been an 
issue?

Thanks,

David Coudron

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

Right now the best antenna we have tested at 30dBi has been the KP Performance 
antennas.  We will be testing the RF Elements antennas next.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 6:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

We have traditionally been using the Arc Wireless 30 dBi 5 GHz parabolic dish 
for our shorter backhaul links when using 5 GHz.   The have been OK, but we 
have a tough time getting them and the radomes from time to time.   We are in 
that situation again.   They are priced quite competitively, and seem to do the 
job, however we are looking for options since they are so spotty to get ahold 
of.   We have messed around with the Ubiquiti RocketDish for CPE connectorized 
radios, but haven’t tried them out for backhaul as of yet.  The specs appear to 
be very similar and I expect they’d perform about the same other than the 
N-Type vs SMA connectors. Anyone have experience with both of these dishes?   
Or is there a better alternative that we should be looking at in the $120 range 
(dish only)?

Regard,

David Coudron

Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Meatball Engineering, or Bush Mechanics  are perfectly fine, until they 
start being contrary to actual physics. 

Unless you are re-defining and challenging physics .. which would be a whole 
different conversation :) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Rory Conaway" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 11:52:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

> I eliminate as many variables as possible and considering how much different
> equipment I have to deal with and the time I have to deal with it, I think our
> methodology of Meatball engineering has been pretty solid.

> Rory

> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 9:50 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

> >> I’ll stand by the conclusion based on our experience.

> I am not countering your conclusion based on your experience.

> I am suggesting that you look a bit more under the surface to determine the
> coarse parameters which are the actual cause for your experience and
> observation.

> (and not just the mere freq /band )

> Regards

> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net

> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>> From: "Rory Conaway" < r...@triadwireless.net >
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 11:40:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24
>> Yea, next time I do a White Paper, I’ll let you know. The reality is that 
>> few of
>> us have the time to do a full engineering analysis so we extrapolate from the
>> information we have. I’ll stand by the conclusion based on our experience.

>> Rory

>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 9:27 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

>> if you want to understand the science behind it .. here is an excellent paper
>> discussing all aspects ...

>> https://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet70/oet70a.pdf

>> The reason I called your observation anecdotal because a lot of key important
>> information is missing from your statement, and there is a lot of 'assumed' /
>> presumed information left to the readers imagination.

>> Let me try to explain it further .. You are comparing to radios of different
>> bands, with different TX powers, Different RX Gain Antennas, on two links,
>> without any confirmation of your signal levels, rain fade loss, alignment,
>> actual modulation drop etc etc etc .. and you are making a statement that
>> higher freq is more stable at a shorter link than a lower freq on a longer 
>> link
>> (which by itself as a general statement would be true, however you are
>> expounding it by stretching both freq links to be of a size that will be
>> affected by Rain Fade, regardless).

>> Now if you were to actually look and understand the science behind it all, 
>> you
>> will quickly find that your observation is in direct conflict of actual
>> science, for the two links your are actually comparing.. Thus leading to a
>> logical conclusion that in your observation, there is some other factor (such
>> as the ones I mentioned above) must be creating the observed behavior. (and 
>> we
>> are not even going to into the discussion of 'rain drop size, density, and 
>> even
>> spread across any particular region).

>> Thus , I refer to your observation as being anecdotal ! :)

>> :)

>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> http://www.snappytelecom.net

>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>>> From: "Rory Conaway" < r...@triadwireless.net >
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 6:51:34 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24
>>> What are you talking about, anecdotal? I’ll provide more complete 
>>> information
>>> for you then.

>>> I’ve got 5 AF24 links in the same area with varying distances from 800’
>>> (although that one was replaced with a B5-Lite last year) to 2.47 miles. The
>>> only one that goes down is the 2.47 mile link and even then it’s about 
>>> twice a
>>> year for about 20 minutes during monsoon season. I think I have some pretty
>>> objective data since they are all within 3 miles. I don’t have a 2.5 mile 
>>> 80GHz
>>> link in that area so no effort was made to compare. The 2 mile link on this
>>> particular 5-hop system has not gone down. This has been up for 2 years so 
>>> we
>>> have 2 summers of monsoon data.

>>> Rory

>>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 1:46 PM
>>> To: 

Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

[Faisal Imtiaz]

If you are referring to the KP Performance Reflectors... 
YES, Absolutely the best in noise rejection 

and if you are wondering why ? just look at the direction the radio's back side 
tends to be when it is properly installed ! 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Rory Conaway" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 10:26:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> It hasn’t been an issue. They seem to reject noise better. I just posted a
> recent comparison of them versus the PowerBeam 620/Prism on Facebook. We
> already knew they were better than the AF-23 antenna since we did that test 
> but
> that wasn’t a fair comparison due to the gain difference.

> Rory

> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of David Coudron
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:05 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> We love the KP Performance antennas for the CPEs, but haven’t used them yet 
> for
> backhaul. Have you been using them for that as well? We were worried the wider
> beamwidth would catch too much other noise. Or maybe that hasn’t been an 
> issue?

> Thanks,

> David Coudron

> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:56 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> Right now the best antenna we have tested at 30dBi has been the KP Performance
> antennas. We will be testing the RF Elements antennas next.

> Rory

> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of David Coudron
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 6:49 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> We have traditionally been using the Arc Wireless 30 dBi 5 GHz parabolic dish
> for our shorter backhaul links when using 5 GHz. The have been OK, but we have
> a tough time getting them and the radomes from time to time. We are in that
> situation again. They are priced quite competitively, and seem to do the job,
> however we are looking for options since they are so spotty to get ahold of. 
> We
> have messed around with the Ubiquiti RocketDish for CPE connectorized radios,
> but haven’t tried them out for backhaul as of yet. The specs appear to be very
> similar and I expect they’d perform about the same other than the N-Type vs 
> SMA
> connectors. Anyone have experience with both of these dishes? Or is there a
> better alternative that we should be looking at in the $120 range (dish only)?

> Regard,

> David Coudron

Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

[Rory Conaway]

I eliminate as many variables as possible and considering how much different 
equipment I have to deal with and the time I have to deal with it, I think our 
methodology of Meatball engineering has been pretty solid.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 9:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

>> I’ll stand by the conclusion based on our experience.

I am not countering your conclusion based on your experience.
I am suggesting that you look a bit more under the surface to determine the 
coarse parameters which are the actual cause for your experience and 
observation.
(and not just the mere freq /band )

Regards

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net


From: "Rory Conaway" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 11:40:11 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24
Yea, next time I do a White Paper, I’ll let you know.  The reality is that few 
of us have the time to do a full engineering analysis so we extrapolate from 
the information we have.  I’ll stand by the conclusion based on our experience.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 9:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

if you want to understand the science behind it .. here is an excellent paper 
discussing all aspects ...

https://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet70/oet70a.pdf

The reason I called your observation anecdotal because a lot of key important 
information is missing from your statement, and there is a lot of 'assumed' / 
presumed information left to the readers imagination.

Let me try to explain it further .. You are comparing to radios of different 
bands, with different TX powers, Different RX Gain Antennas, on two links, 
without any confirmation of your signal levels, rain fade loss, alignment, 
actual modulation drop etc etc etc .. and you are making a statement that 
higher freq is more stable at a shorter link than a lower freq on a longer link 
(which by itself as a general statement would be true, however you are 
expounding it by stretching both freq links to be of a size that will  be 
affected by Rain Fade, regardless).

Now if you were to actually look and understand the science behind it all, you 
will quickly find that your observation is in direct conflict of actual 
science, for the two links your are actually comparing.. Thus leading to a 
logical conclusion that in your observation, there is some other factor (such 
as the ones I mentioned above) must be creating the observed behavior. (and we 
are not even going to into the discussion of 'rain drop size, density, and even 
spread across any particular region).

Thus , I refer to your observation as being anecdotal !  :)

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net


From: "Rory Conaway" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 6:51:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24
What are you talking about, anecdotal?  I’ll provide more complete information 
for you then.

I’ve got 5 AF24 links in the same area with varying distances from 800’ 
(although that one was replaced with a B5-Lite last year) to 2.47 miles.  The 
only one that goes down is the 2.47 mile link and even then it’s about twice a 
year for about 20 minutes during monsoon season.  I think I have some pretty 
objective data since they are all within 3 miles.  I don’t have a 2.5 mile 
80GHz link in that area so no effort was made to compare.  The 2 mile link on 
this particular 5-hop system has not gone down.  This has been up for 2 years 
so we have 2 summers of monsoon data.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 1:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

>> I’ve got an AF24 that will drop at 2.5 miles for about an hour a year.  I’ve 
>> got a 39GHz link at 2 miles that seems pretty solid also


This is exactly the type of anecdotal observations that I made reference to 
earlier :)

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net

Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

[Faisal Imtiaz]

>> I’ll stand by the conclusion based on our experience. 

I am not countering your conclusion based on your experience. 
I am suggesting that you look a bit more under the surface to determine the 
coarse parameters which are the actual cause for your experience and 
observation. 
(and not just the mere freq /band ) 

Regards 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Rory Conaway" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 11:40:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

> Yea, next time I do a White Paper, I’ll let you know. The reality is that few 
> of
> us have the time to do a full engineering analysis so we extrapolate from the
> information we have. I’ll stand by the conclusion based on our experience.

> Rory

> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 9:27 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

> if you want to understand the science behind it .. here is an excellent paper
> discussing all aspects ...

> https://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet70/oet70a.pdf

> The reason I called your observation anecdotal because a lot of key important
> information is missing from your statement, and there is a lot of 'assumed' /
> presumed information left to the readers imagination.

> Let me try to explain it further .. You are comparing to radios of different
> bands, with different TX powers, Different RX Gain Antennas, on two links,
> without any confirmation of your signal levels, rain fade loss, alignment,
> actual modulation drop etc etc etc .. and you are making a statement that
> higher freq is more stable at a shorter link than a lower freq on a longer 
> link
> (which by itself as a general statement would be true, however you are
> expounding it by stretching both freq links to be of a size that will be
> affected by Rain Fade, regardless).

> Now if you were to actually look and understand the science behind it all, you
> will quickly find that your observation is in direct conflict of actual
> science, for the two links your are actually comparing.. Thus leading to a
> logical conclusion that in your observation, there is some other factor (such
> as the ones I mentioned above) must be creating the observed behavior. (and we
> are not even going to into the discussion of 'rain drop size, density, and 
> even
> spread across any particular region).

> Thus , I refer to your observation as being anecdotal ! :)

> :)

> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net

> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>> From: "Rory Conaway" < r...@triadwireless.net >
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 6:51:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24
>> What are you talking about, anecdotal? I’ll provide more complete information
>> for you then.

>> I’ve got 5 AF24 links in the same area with varying distances from 800’
>> (although that one was replaced with a B5-Lite last year) to 2.47 miles. The
>> only one that goes down is the 2.47 mile link and even then it’s about twice 
>> a
>> year for about 20 minutes during monsoon season. I think I have some pretty
>> objective data since they are all within 3 miles. I don’t have a 2.5 mile 
>> 80GHz
>> link in that area so no effort was made to compare. The 2 mile link on this
>> particular 5-hop system has not gone down. This has been up for 2 years so we
>> have 2 summers of monsoon data.

>> Rory

>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 1:46 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

 I’ve got an AF24 that will drop at 2.5 miles for about an hour a year. 
 I’ve got
>> >> a 39GHz link at 2 miles that seems pretty solid also

>> This is exactly the type of anecdotal observations that I made reference to
>> earlier :)

>> Regards.

>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> http://www.snappytelecom.net

>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>>> From: "Rory Conaway" < r...@triadwireless.net >
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 2:02:53 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24
>>> I’m in Southern Arizona so heavy rain is pretty brief but also why I’m 
>>> asking
>>> the question. I’ve got an AF24 that will drop at 2.5 miles for about an 
>>> hour a
>>> year. I’ve got a 39GHz link at 2 miles that seems pretty solid also but I’m
>>> open to using that at 3.5 if that has a better chance too.

>>> Rory

>>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike 

Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

[Faisal Imtiaz]

if you want to understand the science behind it .. here is an excellent paper 
discussing all aspects ... 

https://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet70/oet70a.pdf
 

The reason I called your observation anecdotal because a lot of key important 
information is missing from your statement, and there is a lot of 'assumed' / 
presumed information left to the readers imagination. 

Let me try to explain it further .. You are comparing to radios of different 
bands, with different TX powers, Different RX Gain Antennas, on two links, 
without any confirmation of your signal levels, rain fade loss, alignment, 
actual modulation drop etc etc etc .. and you are making a statement that 
higher freq is more stable at a shorter link than a lower freq on a longer link 
(which by itself as a general statement would be true, however you are 
expounding it by stretching both freq links to be of a size that will be 
affected by Rain Fade, regardless). 

Now if you were to actually look and understand the science behind it all, you 
will quickly find that your observation is in direct conflict of actual 
science, for the two links your are actually comparing.. Thus leading to a 
logical conclusion that in your observation, there is some other factor (such 
as the ones I mentioned above) must be creating the observed behavior. (and we 
are not even going to into the discussion of 'rain drop size, density, and even 
spread across any particular region). 

Thus , I refer to your observation as being anecdotal ! :) 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Rory Conaway" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 6:51:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

> What are you talking about, anecdotal? I’ll provide more complete information
> for you then.

> I’ve got 5 AF24 links in the same area with varying distances from 800’
> (although that one was replaced with a B5-Lite last year) to 2.47 miles. The
> only one that goes down is the 2.47 mile link and even then it’s about twice a
> year for about 20 minutes during monsoon season. I think I have some pretty
> objective data since they are all within 3 miles. I don’t have a 2.5 mile 
> 80GHz
> link in that area so no effort was made to compare. The 2 mile link on this
> particular 5-hop system has not gone down. This has been up for 2 years so we
> have 2 summers of monsoon data.

> Rory

> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 1:46 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

>>> I’ve got an AF24 that will drop at 2.5 miles for about an hour a year. I’ve 
>>> got
> >> a 39GHz link at 2 miles that seems pretty solid also

> This is exactly the type of anecdotal observations that I made reference to
> earlier :)

> Regards.

> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net

> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>> From: "Rory Conaway" < r...@triadwireless.net >
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 2:02:53 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24
>> I’m in Southern Arizona so heavy rain is pretty brief but also why I’m asking
>> the question. I’ve got an AF24 that will drop at 2.5 miles for about an hour 
>> a
>> year. I’ve got a 39GHz link at 2 miles that seems pretty solid also but I’m
>> open to using that at 3.5 if that has a better chance too.

>> Rory

>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 11:07 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

>> Trango's initial 24 GHz radio could do that.

>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

>> Midwest Internet Exchange

>> The Brothers WISP

>> From: "Mathew Howard" < mhoward...@gmail.com >
>> To: "af" < af@afmug.com >
>> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 12:04:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

>> This is the first I've heard of adaptive channel sizes... I've been looking 
>> at
>> both Siklu and Bridgewater, and nobody from either company ever mentioned 
>> that
>> (that doesn't necessarily mean they can't do it though).

>> On Jan 20, 2018 11:58 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote:

>> Adaptive channel sizes?

>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

>> Midwest Internet Exchange

>> The Brothers WISP

>> From: "Eric Kuhnke" < eric.kuh...@gmail.com >
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 11:48:24 AM

>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

>> This is not extremely new in 80 GHz, just with different and denser 
>> modulations.

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Coming to a s*am folder near you

[Sean Heskett]

Nice design chuck!

-Sean


On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 5:16 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> OK, second try, one at a time...
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 21, 2018 5:12 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Coming to a s*am folder near you
>
> I wonder how large of attachments this list serv will convey...
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Coming to a s*am folder near you

[Chuck McCown]

Those are photos of the real deal. Can ship tomorrow.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 21, 2018, at 7:34 PM, Lewis Bergman  wrote:
> 
> Please let us know where and when they have real metal.
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Jan 21, 2018, 8:27 PM Jaime Solorza  
>> wrote:
>> No problem getting them 
>> 
>> 
>> Jaime Solorza
>> 
>>> On Jan 21, 2018 5:16 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>> And the other one
>>>  
>>> From: Chuck McCown
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 5:12 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Coming to a s*am folder near you
>>>  
>>> I wonder how large of attachments this list serv will convey...

Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

[Rory Conaway]

It hasn't been an issue.  They seem to reject noise better.  I just posted a 
recent comparison of them versus the PowerBeam 620/Prism on Facebook.  We 
already knew they were better than the AF-23 antenna since we did that test but 
that wasn't a fair comparison due to the gain difference.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

We love the KP Performance antennas for the CPEs, but haven't used them yet for 
backhaul.   Have you been using them for that as well?   We were worried the 
wider beamwidth would catch too much other noise.  Or maybe that hasn't been an 
issue?

Thanks,

David Coudron

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

Right now the best antenna we have tested at 30dBi has been the KP Performance 
antennas.  We will be testing the RF Elements antennas next.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 6:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

We have traditionally been using the Arc Wireless 30 dBi 5 GHz parabolic dish 
for our shorter backhaul links when using 5 GHz.   The have been OK, but we 
have a tough time getting them and the radomes from time to time.   We are in 
that situation again.   They are priced quite competitively, and seem to do the 
job, however we are looking for options since they are so spotty to get ahold 
of.   We have messed around with the Ubiquiti RocketDish for CPE connectorized 
radios, but haven't tried them out for backhaul as of yet.  The specs appear to 
be very similar and I expect they'd perform about the same other than the 
N-Type vs SMA connectors. Anyone have experience with both of these dishes?   
Or is there a better alternative that we should be looking at in the $120 range 
(dish only)?

Regard,

David Coudron

Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

[David Coudron]

We love the KP Performance antennas for the CPEs, but haven't used them yet for 
backhaul.   Have you been using them for that as well?   We were worried the 
wider beamwidth would catch too much other noise.  Or maybe that hasn't been an 
issue?

Thanks,

David Coudron

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

Right now the best antenna we have tested at 30dBi has been the KP Performance 
antennas.  We will be testing the RF Elements antennas next.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 6:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

We have traditionally been using the Arc Wireless 30 dBi 5 GHz parabolic dish 
for our shorter backhaul links when using 5 GHz.   The have been OK, but we 
have a tough time getting them and the radomes from time to time.   We are in 
that situation again.   They are priced quite competitively, and seem to do the 
job, however we are looking for options since they are so spotty to get ahold 
of.   We have messed around with the Ubiquiti RocketDish for CPE connectorized 
radios, but haven't tried them out for backhaul as of yet.  The specs appear to 
be very similar and I expect they'd perform about the same other than the 
N-Type vs SMA connectors. Anyone have experience with both of these dishes?   
Or is there a better alternative that we should be looking at in the $120 range 
(dish only)?

Regard,

David Coudron

Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

[Rory Conaway]

Right now the best antenna we have tested at 30dBi has been the KP Performance 
antennas.  We will be testing the RF Elements antennas next.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 6:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

We have traditionally been using the Arc Wireless 30 dBi 5 GHz parabolic dish 
for our shorter backhaul links when using 5 GHz.   The have been OK, but we 
have a tough time getting them and the radomes from time to time.   We are in 
that situation again.   They are priced quite competitively, and seem to do the 
job, however we are looking for options since they are so spotty to get ahold 
of.   We have messed around with the Ubiquiti RocketDish for CPE connectorized 
radios, but haven't tried them out for backhaul as of yet.  The specs appear to 
be very similar and I expect they'd perform about the same other than the 
N-Type vs SMA connectors. Anyone have experience with both of these dishes?   
Or is there a better alternative that we should be looking at in the $120 range 
(dish only)?

Regard,

David Coudron

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Coming to a s*am folder near you

[Lewis Bergman]

Please let us know where and when they have real metal.

On Sun, Jan 21, 2018, 8:27 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> No problem getting them
>
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Jan 21, 2018 5:16 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> And the other one
>>
>> *From:* Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 21, 2018 5:12 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Coming to a s*am folder near you
>>
>> I wonder how large of attachments this list serv will convey...
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Coming to a s*am folder near you

[Jaime Solorza]

No problem getting them

Jaime Solorza

On Jan 21, 2018 5:16 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> And the other one
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 21, 2018 5:12 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Coming to a s*am folder near you
>
> I wonder how large of attachments this list serv will convey...
>

[AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

[David Coudron]

We have traditionally been using the Arc Wireless 30 dBi 5 GHz parabolic dish 
for our shorter backhaul links when using 5 GHz.   The have been OK, but we 
have a tough time getting them and the radomes from time to time.   We are in 
that situation again.   They are priced quite competitively, and seem to do the 
job, however we are looking for options since they are so spotty to get ahold 
of.   We have messed around with the Ubiquiti RocketDish for CPE connectorized 
radios, but haven't tried them out for backhaul as of yet.  The specs appear to 
be very similar and I expect they'd perform about the same other than the 
N-Type vs SMA connectors. Anyone have experience with both of these dishes?   
Or is there a better alternative that we should be looking at in the $120 range 
(dish only)?

Regard,

David Coudron

Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

[Chuck McCown]

Not trying to “throw shade”.  We all are interested in any data that helps us 
to formulate an opinion about the bands and products.  

From: Rory Conaway 
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 5:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

I was only interested in Southern Arizona and I have the data.  It’s close 
enough for government work and guide our future deployments.  

 

Rory

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 5:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

 

Technically anecdotal if you don’t have availability/uptime logs over a year or 
so. 

Good anecdotal, but not exactly a bunch of data from a bunch of different sites 
scattered over a bunch of climate regions.  

 

From: Rory Conaway 

Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 4:51 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

 

What are you talking about, anecdotal?  I’ll provide more complete information 
for you then.

I’ve got 5 AF24 links in the same area with varying distances from 800’ 
(although that one was replaced with a B5-Lite last year) to 2.47 miles.  The 
only one that goes down is the 2.47 mile link and even then it’s about twice a 
year for about 20 minutes during monsoon season.  I think I have some pretty 
objective data since they are all within 3 miles.  I don’t have a 2.5 mile 
80GHz link in that area so no effort was made to compare.  The 2 mile link on 
this particular 5-hop system has not gone down.  This has been up for 2 years 
so we have 2 summers of monsoon data.

 

Rory  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 1:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

 

>> I’ve got an AF24 that will drop at 2.5 miles for about an hour a year.  I’ve 
>> got a 39GHz link at 2 miles that seems pretty solid also

 

 

This is exactly the type of anecdotal observations that I made reference to 
earlier :)

 

Regards.

 

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

 




  From: "Rory Conaway" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 2:02:53 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

  I’m in Southern Arizona so heavy rain is pretty brief but also why I’m asking 
the question.  I’ve got an AF24 that will drop at 2.5 miles for about an hour a 
year.  I’ve got a 39GHz link at 2 miles that seems pretty solid also but I’m 
open to using that at 3.5 if that has a better chance too.

   

  Rory 

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 11:07 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

   

  Trango's initial 24 GHz radio could do that.



  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Mathew Howard" 
  To: "af" 
  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 12:04:15 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

  This is the first I've heard of adaptive channel sizes... I've been looking 
at both Siklu and Bridgewater, and nobody from either company ever mentioned 
that (that doesn't necessarily mean they can't do it though). 

   

  On Jan 20, 2018 11:58 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  Adaptive channel sizes?

   



  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 11:48:24 AM


  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

  This is not extremely new in 80 GHz, just with different and denser 
modulations. The Siklu 80 GHz stuff has done adaptive coding and modulation for 
a while. The (now 7 year old!) Bridgewave adaptrate 80 GHz stuff would maintain 
a 100 Mbps link during a rain fade, by switching a nominally QPSK-modulated 
1500 MHz wide channel for 1 Gbps, temporarily down to BPSK during a rain fade 
event. 

   

   

   

  On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Stefan Englhardt  wrote:

Some vendors do some new things to stretch the range of 80GHz:

 


http://de.nec.com/de_DE/global/prod/nw/pasolink/products/ipasolinkEX_advanced.html?

 

They modulate down and then reduce channel size.

 

This gear is in the 20kEuro Range …

 

 

 

Von: Af 

Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

[Rory Conaway]

I was only interested in Southern Arizona and I have the data.  It’s close 
enough for government work and guide our future deployments.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 5:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

Technically anecdotal if you don’t have availability/uptime logs over a year or 
so.
Good anecdotal, but not exactly a bunch of data from a bunch of different sites 
scattered over a bunch of climate regions.

From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 4:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

What are you talking about, anecdotal?  I’ll provide more complete information 
for you then.

I’ve got 5 AF24 links in the same area with varying distances from 800’ 
(although that one was replaced with a B5-Lite last year) to 2.47 miles.  The 
only one that goes down is the 2.47 mile link and even then it’s about twice a 
year for about 20 minutes during monsoon season.  I think I have some pretty 
objective data since they are all within 3 miles.  I don’t have a 2.5 mile 
80GHz link in that area so no effort was made to compare.  The 2 mile link on 
this particular 5-hop system has not gone down.  This has been up for 2 years 
so we have 2 summers of monsoon data.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 1:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

>> I’ve got an AF24 that will drop at 2.5 miles for about an hour a year.  I’ve 
>> got a 39GHz link at 2 miles that seems pretty solid also


This is exactly the type of anecdotal observations that I made reference to 
earlier :)

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net


From: "Rory Conaway" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 2:02:53 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24
I’m in Southern Arizona so heavy rain is pretty brief but also why I’m asking 
the question.  I’ve got an AF24 that will drop at 2.5 miles for about an hour a 
year.  I’ve got a 39GHz link at 2 miles that seems pretty solid also but I’m 
open to using that at 3.5 if that has a better chance too.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 11:07 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

Trango's initial 24 GHz radio could do that.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Mathew Howard" >
To: "af" >
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 12:04:15 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24
This is the first I've heard of adaptive channel sizes... I've been looking at 
both Siklu and Bridgewater, and nobody from either company ever mentioned that 
(that doesn't necessarily mean they can't do it though).

On Jan 20, 2018 11:58 AM, "Mike Hammett" 
> wrote:
Adaptive channel sizes?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange

Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

[Chuck McCown]

Technically anecdotal if you don’t have availability/uptime logs over a year or 
so. 
Good anecdotal, but not exactly a bunch of data from a bunch of different sites 
scattered over a bunch of climate regions.  

From: Rory Conaway 
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 4:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

What are you talking about, anecdotal?  I’ll provide more complete information 
for you then.

I’ve got 5 AF24 links in the same area with varying distances from 800’ 
(although that one was replaced with a B5-Lite last year) to 2.47 miles.  The 
only one that goes down is the 2.47 mile link and even then it’s about twice a 
year for about 20 minutes during monsoon season.  I think I have some pretty 
objective data since they are all within 3 miles.  I don’t have a 2.5 mile 
80GHz link in that area so no effort was made to compare.  The 2 mile link on 
this particular 5-hop system has not gone down.  This has been up for 2 years 
so we have 2 summers of monsoon data.

 

Rory  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 1:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

 

>> I’ve got an AF24 that will drop at 2.5 miles for about an hour a year.  I’ve 
>> got a 39GHz link at 2 miles that seems pretty solid also

 

 

This is exactly the type of anecdotal observations that I made reference to 
earlier :)

 

Regards.

 

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

 




  From: "Rory Conaway" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 2:02:53 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

  I’m in Southern Arizona so heavy rain is pretty brief but also why I’m asking 
the question.  I’ve got an AF24 that will drop at 2.5 miles for about an hour a 
year.  I’ve got a 39GHz link at 2 miles that seems pretty solid also but I’m 
open to using that at 3.5 if that has a better chance too.

   

  Rory 

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 11:07 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

   

  Trango's initial 24 GHz radio could do that.



  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Mathew Howard" 
  To: "af" 
  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 12:04:15 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

  This is the first I've heard of adaptive channel sizes... I've been looking 
at both Siklu and Bridgewater, and nobody from either company ever mentioned 
that (that doesn't necessarily mean they can't do it though). 

   

  On Jan 20, 2018 11:58 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  Adaptive channel sizes?

   



  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 11:48:24 AM


  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

  This is not extremely new in 80 GHz, just with different and denser 
modulations. The Siklu 80 GHz stuff has done adaptive coding and modulation for 
a while. The (now 7 year old!) Bridgewave adaptrate 80 GHz stuff would maintain 
a 100 Mbps link during a rain fade, by switching a nominally QPSK-modulated 
1500 MHz wide channel for 1 Gbps, temporarily down to BPSK during a rain fade 
event. 

   

   

   

  On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Stefan Englhardt  wrote:

Some vendors do some new things to stretch the range of 80GHz:

 


http://de.nec.com/de_DE/global/prod/nw/pasolink/products/ipasolinkEX_advanced.html?

 

They modulate down and then reduce channel size.

 

This gear is in the 20kEuro Range …

 

 

 

Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Faisal Imtiaz
Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2018 17:08
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

 

We have two things to contend with... 

one is Oxygen Absorption

second is Rain Fade

 

Science says, 24ghz has much less O2 absorption fade vs 80ghz

Science also says that 24ghz has slightly less Rain fade vs 80ghz

 

Science also says that if on a particular link, if one is comparing 24ghz 
vs 80ghz, the difference in which link drops first will be based on the TX 
power / Antenna Gain and Rx 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie review

[Chuck McCown]

And a pretty bad one too.  It was supposed to have an Alfred Hitchcock twist 
but it really didn’t.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 4:51 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie review

Isn't that a chic flick


Jaime Solorza

On Jan 21, 2018 4:49 PM,  wrote:

  Two thumbs down

  Phantom Thread

  Critics and Rotten Tomatoes are wrong.  
  Not worth paying for at all.  

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie review

[Jaime Solorza]

Isn't that a chic flick

Jaime Solorza

On Jan 21, 2018 4:49 PM,  wrote:

> Two thumbs down
>
> Phantom Thread
>
> Critics and Rotten Tomatoes are wrong.
> Not worth paying for at all.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

[Rory Conaway]

What are you talking about, anecdotal?  I’ll provide more complete information 
for you then.

I’ve got 5 AF24 links in the same area with varying distances from 800’ 
(although that one was replaced with a B5-Lite last year) to 2.47 miles.  The 
only one that goes down is the 2.47 mile link and even then it’s about twice a 
year for about 20 minutes during monsoon season.  I think I have some pretty 
objective data since they are all within 3 miles.  I don’t have a 2.5 mile 
80GHz link in that area so no effort was made to compare.  The 2 mile link on 
this particular 5-hop system has not gone down.  This has been up for 2 years 
so we have 2 summers of monsoon data.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 1:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

>> I’ve got an AF24 that will drop at 2.5 miles for about an hour a year.  I’ve 
>> got a 39GHz link at 2 miles that seems pretty solid also


This is exactly the type of anecdotal observations that I made reference to 
earlier :)

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net


From: "Rory Conaway" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 2:02:53 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24
I’m in Southern Arizona so heavy rain is pretty brief but also why I’m asking 
the question.  I’ve got an AF24 that will drop at 2.5 miles for about an hour a 
year.  I’ve got a 39GHz link at 2 miles that seems pretty solid also but I’m 
open to using that at 3.5 if that has a better chance too.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 11:07 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

Trango's initial 24 GHz radio could do that.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Mathew Howard" >
To: "af" >
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 12:04:15 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24
This is the first I've heard of adaptive channel sizes... I've been looking at 
both Siklu and Bridgewater, and nobody from either company ever mentioned that 
(that doesn't necessarily mean they can't do it though).

On Jan 20, 2018 11:58 AM, "Mike Hammett" 
> wrote:
Adaptive channel sizes?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Eric Kuhnke" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 11:48:24 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24
This is not extremely new in 80 

[AFMUG] OT Movie review

[chuck]

Two thumbs down

Phantom Thread

Critics and Rotten Tomatoes are wrong.  
Not worth paying for at all.  

Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki

[Brian Kelly]

We've been running Bitnami MediaWiki Stack  (
https://bitnami.com/stack/mediawiki  (locally hosted, not their cloud
service) )  + Semantic Mediawiki extension (
https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki) for the past
5-6 years now, working well for us.

--sent from my iPhone


On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 4:21 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Great flick
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Jan 21, 2018 1:01 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:
>
>> Followed by Major Kong riding the Bomb in
>>
>> On 01/21/2018 08:21 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>>> Never considered the idea of giving the customers a good self support
>>> tool.  That is an astoundingly good idea.
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZct-itCwPE
>>> *From:* Jeremy
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 21, 2018 9:16 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki
>>> MindTouch (Deki) Wiki?  They have it in a ready-to-go linux turnkey
>>> distro.
>>> On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 8:02 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>>
>>> Well then you may like Confluence - especially with the Gliffy
>>> plugin which is awesome for diagrams!
>>> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 7:42 PM, Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> My complaint with a wiki was that it was very clunky to add
>>> non-text content.  I like to use a lot of diagrams and photos.
>>> Might give this One Note thing a spin.
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 1/20/2018 12:49:45 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki
>>>
 I can't say who, but one of the largest last-mile ISPs on the
 entire west coast (WA/OR/CA) uses mediawiki for nearly 100% of
 their internal documentation. Organized per POP.


 On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:44 AM,  wrote:

 Yeah, I think mediawiki is the way to go.  I started down
 that path once but not being well versed in Linux I
 stopped.  We can get that implemented.
 I just hate losing corporate/institutional memory every
 time a tech decides to go to college or go to work for
 Google/Ebay/Adobe... (we ain’t called Silicon Slopes for
 nuthing)
 *From:* Eric Kuhnke
 *Sent:* Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:41 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki

 My objection is not about the cost, which is nominal, but
 about the principle of going down the path of what can
 become a business-critical function offloaded to a third
 party, where you don't have full access to your own
 database/back-end.

 On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:35 AM, Josh Baird
  wrote:

 Confluence is only $10 for 10 users.  That’s my
 recommendation.

 On Jan 20, 2018, at 12:26 PM, Eric Kuhnke
  wrote:

 Full mediawiki, the same software that runs the
> backend of wikipedia. If you are not a competent
> Linux sysadmin, you are going to want to get one to
> set it up and maintain it. It's vastly more powerful
> and extensible than a medium sized ISP could ever
> need. I predict we will see people here recommend
> Confluence and other commercial solutions, but in my
> opinion all proper wiki software for serious use
> should be composed of 100% BSD, GPL and Apache
> licensed software.
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:16 AM, 
> wrote:
>
> I want it to be in wiki format.  An ongoing
> knowledge base.  We had one at a former company
> and it was great. But I was not the one that
> installed it so I don’t know what is involved in
> that.
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:14 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki
> if its not public, i use OneNote
> its not in the wiki format but it logs changes,
> logs who made changes and allows multiuser access
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 11:06 AM,
>  wrote:
>
> What is the most pain free 

Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

[Faisal Imtiaz]

>> I’ve got an AF24 that will drop at 2.5 miles for about an hour a year. I’ve 
>> got a 39GHz link at 2 miles that seems pretty solid also 

This is exactly the type of anecdotal observations that I made reference to 
earlier :) 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Rory Conaway" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 2:02:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

> I’m in Southern Arizona so heavy rain is pretty brief but also why I’m asking
> the question. I’ve got an AF24 that will drop at 2.5 miles for about an hour a
> year. I’ve got a 39GHz link at 2 miles that seems pretty solid also but I’m
> open to using that at 3.5 if that has a better chance too.

> Rory

> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 11:07 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

> Trango's initial 24 GHz radio could do that.

> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions

> Midwest Internet Exchange

> The Brothers WISP

> From: "Mathew Howard" < mhoward...@gmail.com >
> To: "af" < af@afmug.com >
> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 12:04:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

> This is the first I've heard of adaptive channel sizes... I've been looking at
> both Siklu and Bridgewater, and nobody from either company ever mentioned that
> (that doesn't necessarily mean they can't do it though).

> On Jan 20, 2018 11:58 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote:

> Adaptive channel sizes?

> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions

> Midwest Internet Exchange

> The Brothers WISP

> From: "Eric Kuhnke" < eric.kuh...@gmail.com >
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 11:48:24 AM

> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

> This is not extremely new in 80 GHz, just with different and denser 
> modulations.
> The Siklu 80 GHz stuff has done adaptive coding and modulation for a while. 
> The
> (now 7 year old!) Bridgewave adaptrate 80 GHz stuff would maintain a 100 Mbps
> link during a rain fade, by switching a nominally QPSK-modulated 1500 MHz wide
> channel for 1 Gbps, temporarily down to BPSK during a rain fade event.

> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Stefan Englhardt < s...@genias.net > wrote:

>> Some vendors do some new things to stretch the range of 80GHz:

>> http://de.nec.com/de_DE/global/prod/nw/pasolink/products/ipasolinkEX_advanced.html
>> ?

>> They modulate down and then reduce channel size.

>> This gear is in the 20kEuro Range …

>> Von: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] Im Auftrag von Faisal Imtiaz
>> Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2018 17:08
>> An: af@afmug.com
>> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

>> We have two things to contend with...

>> one is Oxygen Absorption

>> second is Rain Fade

>> Science says, 24ghz has much less O2 absorption fade vs 80ghz

>> Science also says that 24ghz has slightly less Rain fade vs 80ghz

>> Science also says that if on a particular link, if one is comparing 24ghz vs
>> 80ghz, the difference in which link drops first will be based on the TX 
>> power /
>> Antenna Gain and Rx sensitivity.

>> If all things were exactly the same, then 80ghz would drop before 24ghz in 
>> Rain
>> event.

>> But in reality, all things are not the same.. I believe 80ghz one is allowed
>> more power, and higher antenna gain.

>> https://www.e-band.com/index.php?id=86

>> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dont-fall-siklu-overbuilds-distance-claims-david-theodore

>> at 3.5miles, one is pushing the limits of both 24gzh as well as 80ghz..
>> Depending on what you are trying to achieve, and the rainzone, you can make
>> your choice based on what will perform better normally... cause both of them
>> will go out in rain :)

>> Best of Luck

>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> http://www.snappytelecom.net

>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>>> From: "Mathew Howard" < mhoward...@gmail.com >
>>> To: "af" < af@afmug.com >
>>> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 8:42:31 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24
>>> I'd guess 24ghz would be slightly better, but either one is going to drop at
>>> that distance if you ever get heavy rain.

>>> Somebody from Siklu told me at one time, that some of their customers have 
>>> told
>>> then that their rainfade is slightly better than an AF24, but slightly worse
>>> than an AF24HD... how accurate that is, I don't know.

>>> On Jan 19, 2018 6:03 PM, "Rory Conaway" < r...@triadwireless.net > wrote:

 I haven’t run the numbers so please save me some time. Which one has less 
 fade
 margin at 3.5 miles? I was going to use 

Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

[Faisal Imtiaz]

> This is the first I've heard of adaptive channel sizes.. 

Not trying to throw a curve ball... but it is one of the 'quiet, open disclosed 
secret of the Mimosa A5/PTMP system :) 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Mathew Howard" 
> To: "af" 
> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 1:04:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

> This is the first I've heard of adaptive channel sizes... I've been looking at
> both Siklu and Bridgewater, and nobody from either company ever mentioned that
> (that doesn't necessarily mean they can't do it though).

> On Jan 20, 2018 11:58 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote:

>> Adaptive channel sizes?

>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

>> Midwest Internet Exchange

>> The Brothers WISP

>> From: "Eric Kuhnke" < eric.kuh...@gmail.com >
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 11:48:24 AM

>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

>> This is not extremely new in 80 GHz, just with different and denser 
>> modulations.
>> The Siklu 80 GHz stuff has done adaptive coding and modulation for a while. 
>> The
>> (now 7 year old!) Bridgewave adaptrate 80 GHz stuff would maintain a 100 Mbps
>> link during a rain fade, by switching a nominally QPSK-modulated 1500 MHz 
>> wide
>> channel for 1 Gbps, temporarily down to BPSK during a rain fade event.

>> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Stefan Englhardt < s...@genias.net > wrote:

>>> Some vendors do some new things to stretch the range of 80GHz:

>>> http://de.nec.com/de_DE/global/prod/nw/pasolink/products/ipasolinkEX_advanced.html
>>> ?

>>> They modulate down and then reduce channel size.

>>> This gear is in the 20kEuro Range …

>>> Von: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] Im Auftrag von Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2018 17:08
>>> An: af@afmug.com
>>> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

>>> We have two things to contend with...

>>> one is Oxygen Absorption

>>> second is Rain Fade

>>> Science says, 24ghz has much less O2 absorption fade vs 80ghz

>>> Science also says that 24ghz has slightly less Rain fade vs 80ghz

>>> Science also says that if on a particular link, if one is comparing 24ghz vs
>>> 80ghz, the difference in which link drops first will be based on the TX 
>>> power /
>>> Antenna Gain and Rx sensitivity.

>>> If all things were exactly the same, then 80ghz would drop before 24ghz in 
>>> Rain
>>> event.

>>> But in reality, all things are not the same.. I believe 80ghz one is allowed
>>> more power, and higher antenna gain.

>>> https://www.e-band.com/index.php?id=86

>>> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dont-fall-siklu-overbuilds-distance-claims-david-theodore

>>> at 3.5miles, one is pushing the limits of both 24gzh as well as 80ghz..
>>> Depending on what you are trying to achieve, and the rainzone, you can make
>>> your choice based on what will perform better normally... cause both of them
>>> will go out in rain :)

>>> Best of Luck

>>> Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>>> http://www.snappytelecom.net

>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

 From: "Mathew Howard" < mhoward...@gmail.com >
 To: "af" < af@afmug.com >
 Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 8:42:31 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24
 I'd guess 24ghz would be slightly better, but either one is going to drop 
 at
 that distance if you ever get heavy rain.

 Somebody from Siklu told me at one time, that some of their customers have 
 told
 then that their rainfade is slightly better than an AF24, but slightly 
 worse
 than an AF24HD... how accurate that is, I don't know.

 On Jan 19, 2018 6:03 PM, "Rory Conaway" < r...@triadwireless.net > wrote:

> I haven’t run the numbers so please save me some time. Which one has less 
> fade
> margin at 3.5 miles? I was going to use Siklu with a 2’ antenna.

> Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO

> 4226 S. 37 th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040

> 602-426-0542

> r...@triadwireless.net

> www.triadwireless.net

> “"Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough 
> features
> yet." — Scott Adams

Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

[Faisal Imtiaz]

I believe that is taken into account with 'rain fade' which is a very loose 
board variance.. thus the arguments / conversations which tend to be more 
anecdotal than anything else. 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 11:33:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

> How about droplet size and shape vs wavelength and polarization?
> From: Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 9:07 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24
> We have two things to contend with...
> one is Oxygen Absorption
> second is Rain Fade
> Science says, 24ghz has much less O2 absorption fade vs 80ghz
> Science also says that 24ghz has slightly less Rain fade vs 80ghz
> Science also says that if on a particular link, if one is comparing 24ghz vs
> 80ghz, the difference in which link drops first will be based on the TX power 
> /
> Antenna Gain and Rx sensitivity.
> If all things were exactly the same, then 80ghz would drop before 24ghz in 
> Rain
> event.
> But in reality, all things are not the same.. I believe 80ghz one is allowed
> more power, and higher antenna gain.
> https://www.e-band.com/index.php?id=86
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dont-fall-siklu-overbuilds-distance-claims-david-theodore
> at 3.5miles, one is pushing the limits of both 24gzh as well as 80ghz..
> Depending on what you are trying to achieve, and the rainzone, you can make
> your choice based on what will perform better normally... cause both of them
> will go out in rain :)
> Best of Luck
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net

> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>> From: "Mathew Howard" 
>> To: "af" 
>> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 8:42:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

>> I'd guess 24ghz would be slightly better, but either one is going to drop at
>> that distance if you ever get heavy rain.
>> Somebody from Siklu told me at one time, that some of their customers have 
>> told
>> then that their rainfade is slightly better than an AF24, but slightly worse
>> than an AF24HD... how accurate that is, I don't know.
>> On Jan 19, 2018 6:03 PM, "Rory Conaway" < r...@triadwireless.net > wrote:

>>> I haven’t run the numbers so please save me some time. Which one has less 
>>> fade
>>> margin at 3.5 miles? I was going to use Siklu with a 2’ antenna.

>>> Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO

>>> 4226 S. 37 th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040

>>> 602-426-0542

>>> r...@triadwireless.net

>>> www.triadwireless.net

>>> “"Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features
>>> yet." — Scott Adams

Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki

[Jaime Solorza]

Great flick
Jaime Solorza

On Jan 21, 2018 1:01 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:

> Followed by Major Kong riding the Bomb in
>
> On 01/21/2018 08:21 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
>> Never considered the idea of giving the customers a good self support
>> tool.  That is an astoundingly good idea.
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZct-itCwPE
>> *From:* Jeremy
>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 21, 2018 9:16 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki
>> MindTouch (Deki) Wiki?  They have it in a ready-to-go linux turnkey
>> distro.
>> On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 8:02 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>> Well then you may like Confluence - especially with the Gliffy
>> plugin which is awesome for diagrams!
>> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 7:42 PM, Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>> My complaint with a wiki was that it was very clunky to add
>> non-text content.  I like to use a lot of diagrams and photos.
>> Might give this One Note thing a spin.
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 1/20/2018 12:49:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki
>>
>>> I can't say who, but one of the largest last-mile ISPs on the
>>> entire west coast (WA/OR/CA) uses mediawiki for nearly 100% of
>>> their internal documentation. Organized per POP.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:44 AM,  wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, I think mediawiki is the way to go.  I started down
>>> that path once but not being well versed in Linux I
>>> stopped.  We can get that implemented.
>>> I just hate losing corporate/institutional memory every
>>> time a tech decides to go to college or go to work for
>>> Google/Ebay/Adobe... (we ain’t called Silicon Slopes for
>>> nuthing)
>>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:41 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki
>>> My objection is not about the cost, which is nominal, but
>>> about the principle of going down the path of what can
>>> become a business-critical function offloaded to a third
>>> party, where you don't have full access to your own
>>> database/back-end.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:35 AM, Josh Baird
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Confluence is only $10 for 10 users.  That’s my
>>> recommendation.
>>>
>>> On Jan 20, 2018, at 12:26 PM, Eric Kuhnke
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Full mediawiki, the same software that runs the
 backend of wikipedia. If you are not a competent
 Linux sysadmin, you are going to want to get one to
 set it up and maintain it. It's vastly more powerful
 and extensible than a medium sized ISP could ever
 need. I predict we will see people here recommend
 Confluence and other commercial solutions, but in my
 opinion all proper wiki software for serious use
 should be composed of 100% BSD, GPL and Apache
 licensed software.
 On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:16 AM, 
 wrote:

 I want it to be in wiki format.  An ongoing
 knowledge base.  We had one at a former company
 and it was great. But I was not the one that
 installed it so I don’t know what is involved in
 that.
 *From:* Steve Jones
 *Sent:* Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:14 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki
 if its not public, i use OneNote
 its not in the wiki format but it logs changes,
 logs who made changes and allows multiuser access
 On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 11:06 AM,
  wrote:

 What is the most pain free way to create a wiki?

Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki

[Robert Andrews]

Followed by Major Kong riding the Bomb in

On 01/21/2018 08:21 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Never considered the idea of giving the customers a good self support 
tool.  That is an astoundingly good idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZct-itCwPE
*From:* Jeremy
*Sent:* Sunday, January 21, 2018 9:16 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki
MindTouch (Deki) Wiki?  They have it in a ready-to-go linux turnkey distro.
On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 8:02 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:

Well then you may like Confluence - especially with the Gliffy
plugin which is awesome for diagrams!
On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 7:42 PM, Adam Moffett 
wrote:

My complaint with a wiki was that it was very clunky to add
non-text content.  I like to use a lot of diagrams and photos.
Might give this One Note thing a spin.
-- Original Message --
From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 1/20/2018 12:49:45 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki

I can't say who, but one of the largest last-mile ISPs on the
entire west coast (WA/OR/CA) uses mediawiki for nearly 100% of
their internal documentation. Organized per POP.


On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:44 AM,  wrote:

Yeah, I think mediawiki is the way to go.  I started down
that path once but not being well versed in Linux I
stopped.  We can get that implemented.
I just hate losing corporate/institutional memory every
time a tech decides to go to college or go to work for
Google/Ebay/Adobe... (we ain’t called Silicon Slopes for
nuthing)
*From:* Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:41 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki
My objection is not about the cost, which is nominal, but
about the principle of going down the path of what can
become a business-critical function offloaded to a third
party, where you don't have full access to your own
database/back-end.

On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:35 AM, Josh Baird
 wrote:

Confluence is only $10 for 10 users.  That’s my
recommendation.

On Jan 20, 2018, at 12:26 PM, Eric Kuhnke
 wrote:


Full mediawiki, the same software that runs the
backend of wikipedia. If you are not a competent
Linux sysadmin, you are going to want to get one to
set it up and maintain it. It's vastly more powerful
and extensible than a medium sized ISP could ever
need. I predict we will see people here recommend
Confluence and other commercial solutions, but in my
opinion all proper wiki software for serious use
should be composed of 100% BSD, GPL and Apache
licensed software.
On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:16 AM,  wrote:

I want it to be in wiki format.  An ongoing
knowledge base.  We had one at a former company
and it was great. But I was not the one that
installed it so I don’t know what is involved in
that.
*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:14 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki
if its not public, i use OneNote
its not in the wiki format but it logs changes,
logs who made changes and allows multiuser access
On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 11:06 AM,
 wrote:

What is the most pain free way to create a wiki?

Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki

[Chuck McCown]

Never considered the idea of giving the customers a good self support tool.  
That is an astoundingly good idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZct-itCwPE

From: Jeremy 
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 9:16 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki

MindTouch (Deki) Wiki?  They have it in a ready-to-go linux turnkey distro.

On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 8:02 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:

  Well then you may like Confluence - especially with the Gliffy plugin which 
is awesome for diagrams!

  On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 7:42 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

My complaint with a wiki was that it was very clunky to add non-text 
content.  I like to use a lot of diagrams and photos.
Might give this One Note thing a spin.


-- Original Message --
From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 1/20/2018 12:49:45 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki

  I can't say who, but one of the largest last-mile ISPs on the entire west 
coast (WA/OR/CA) uses mediawiki for nearly 100% of their internal 
documentation. Organized per POP.




  On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:44 AM,  wrote:

Yeah, I think mediawiki is the way to go.  I started down that path 
once but not being well versed in Linux I stopped.  We can get that 
implemented.  
I just hate losing corporate/institutional memory every time a tech 
decides to go to college or go to work for Google/Ebay/Adobe... (we ain’t 
called Silicon Slopes for nuthing)

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:41 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki

My objection is not about the cost, which is nominal, but about the 
principle of going down the path of what can become a business-critical 
function offloaded to a third party, where you don't have full access to your 
own database/back-end.




On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:35 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:

  Confluence is only $10 for 10 users.  That’s my recommendation.


  On Jan 20, 2018, at 12:26 PM, Eric Kuhnke  
wrote:


Full mediawiki, the same software that runs the backend of 
wikipedia. If you are not a competent Linux sysadmin, you are going to want to 
get one to set it up and maintain it. It's vastly more powerful and extensible 
than a medium sized ISP could ever need. I predict we will see people here 
recommend Confluence and other commercial solutions, but in my opinion all 
proper wiki software for serious use should be composed of 100% BSD, GPL and 
Apache licensed software.


On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:16 AM,  wrote:

  I want it to be in wiki format.  An ongoing knowledge base.  We 
had one at a former company and it was great.  But I was not the one that 
installed it so I don’t know what is involved in that.  

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:14 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki

  if its not public, i use OneNote 
  its not in the wiki format but it logs changes, logs who made 
changes and allows multiuser access

  On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 11:06 AM,  wrote:

What is the most pain free way to create a wiki?

Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki

[Jeremy]

MindTouch (Deki) Wiki?  They have it in a ready-to-go linux turnkey distro.

On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 8:02 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:

> Well then you may like Confluence - especially with the Gliffy plugin
> which is awesome for diagrams!
>
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 7:42 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> My complaint with a wiki was that it was very clunky to add non-text
>> content.  I like to use a lot of diagrams and photos.
>> Might give this One Note thing a spin.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 1/20/2018 12:49:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki
>>
>> I can't say who, but one of the largest last-mile ISPs on the entire west
>> coast (WA/OR/CA) uses mediawiki for nearly 100% of their internal
>> documentation. Organized per POP.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:44 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, I think mediawiki is the way to go.  I started down that path once
>>> but not being well versed in Linux I stopped.  We can get that
>>> implemented.
>>> I just hate losing corporate/institutional memory every time a tech
>>> decides to go to college or go to work for Google/Ebay/Adobe... (we ain’t
>>> called Silicon Slopes for nuthing)
>>>
>>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:41 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki
>>>
>>> My objection is not about the cost, which is nominal, but about the
>>> principle of going down the path of what can become a business-critical
>>> function offloaded to a third party, where you don't have full access to
>>> your own database/back-end.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:35 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>>
 Confluence is only $10 for 10 users.  That’s my recommendation.

 On Jan 20, 2018, at 12:26 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
 wrote:

 Full mediawiki, the same software that runs the backend of wikipedia.
 If you are not a competent Linux sysadmin, you are going to want to get one
 to set it up and maintain it. It's vastly more powerful and extensible than
 a medium sized ISP could ever need. I predict we will see people here
 recommend Confluence and other commercial solutions, but in my opinion all
 proper wiki software for serious use should be composed of 100% BSD, GPL
 and Apache licensed software.

 On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:16 AM,  wrote:

> I want it to be in wiki format.  An ongoing knowledge base.  We had
> one at a former company and it was great.  But I was not the one that
> installed it so I don’t know what is involved in that.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:14 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki
>
> if its not public, i use OneNote
> its not in the wiki format but it logs changes, logs who made changes
> and allows multiuser access
>
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 11:06 AM,  wrote:
>
>> What is the most pain free way to create a wiki?
>>
>
>



>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki

[Josh Baird]

Well then you may like Confluence - especially with the Gliffy plugin which
is awesome for diagrams!

On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 7:42 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> My complaint with a wiki was that it was very clunky to add non-text
> content.  I like to use a lot of diagrams and photos.
> Might give this One Note thing a spin.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 1/20/2018 12:49:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki
>
> I can't say who, but one of the largest last-mile ISPs on the entire west
> coast (WA/OR/CA) uses mediawiki for nearly 100% of their internal
> documentation. Organized per POP.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:44 AM,  wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I think mediawiki is the way to go.  I started down that path once
>> but not being well versed in Linux I stopped.  We can get that
>> implemented.
>> I just hate losing corporate/institutional memory every time a tech
>> decides to go to college or go to work for Google/Ebay/Adobe... (we ain’t
>> called Silicon Slopes for nuthing)
>>
>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:41 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki
>>
>> My objection is not about the cost, which is nominal, but about the
>> principle of going down the path of what can become a business-critical
>> function offloaded to a third party, where you don't have full access to
>> your own database/back-end.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:35 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>>> Confluence is only $10 for 10 users.  That’s my recommendation.
>>>
>>> On Jan 20, 2018, at 12:26 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>>>
>>> Full mediawiki, the same software that runs the backend of wikipedia. If
>>> you are not a competent Linux sysadmin, you are going to want to get one to
>>> set it up and maintain it. It's vastly more powerful and extensible than a
>>> medium sized ISP could ever need. I predict we will see people here
>>> recommend Confluence and other commercial solutions, but in my opinion all
>>> proper wiki software for serious use should be composed of 100% BSD, GPL
>>> and Apache licensed software.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:16 AM,  wrote:
>>>
 I want it to be in wiki format.  An ongoing knowledge base.  We had one
 at a former company and it was great.  But I was not the one that installed
 it so I don’t know what is involved in that.

 *From:* Steve Jones
 *Sent:* Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:14 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tech wiki

 if its not public, i use OneNote
 its not in the wiki format but it logs changes, logs who made changes
 and allows multiuser access

 On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 11:06 AM,  wrote:

> What is the most pain free way to create a wiki?
>


>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

[Gino A. Villarini]

So lucky you can stretch mmw to those distances!

Gino A. Villarini
@gvillarini



On Jan 20, 2018, at 11:24 AM, Mike Hammett 
> wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1152763711515746




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
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Midwest Internet Exchange
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The Brothers WISP
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From: "Rory Conaway" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 6:02:41 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Quick comparison between 80GHz and AF24

I haven’t run the numbers so please save me some time.  Which one has less fade 
margin at 3.5 miles?  I was going to use Siklu with a 2’ antenna.

Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO
4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040
602-426-0542
r...@triadwireless.net
www.triadwireless.net

“"Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features 
yet."— Scott Adams

Re: [AFMUG] New cambium firmware release

[Gino A. Villarini]

Thanks!

Gino A. Villarini
@gvillarini



On Jan 20, 2018, at 2:24 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> wrote:

I note that cambium officially released 15.1.3 on Friday.

Among other things this seems to fix a bug that some of my customers have 
encountered where the radios will lose sync and not recover without a reboot.   
A few of my customers have upgraded radios which were experiencing this issue 
on an ongoing basis to one of the Beta versions of this release, and so far 
this seems to have solve the issue.   As a result, If you're seeing this bug, 
I'd recommend that you try upgrading to 15.1.3


--
Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | 
http://www.packetflux.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Tesswave antennas

[Gino A. Villarini]

They seem to resell Chinese antennas .. should not be too difficult to source 
those somewhere else?

Gino A. Villarini
@gvillarini



> On Jan 20, 2018, at 9:26 PM, Jerry Head  wrote:
> 
> +1
> 
> 
>> On 1/19/2018 1:58 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>> Has anyone dealt with Tesswave antennas? Trying to contact them since they 
>> seem to be the only company with 120deg dual-slant 900mhz sectors, but 
>> haven't received any replies.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> -C
>