Re: [AFMUG] Another Ceragon ODU Frequency Question

[Trey Scarborough]

Your antenna as others have stated should be fine. I would power up the 
radio and check it before jumping to conclusions. If it was an RMA 
return that was not the original radio they sent you there is a chance 
they could have changed the diplexer in it to be the correct one.  If 
this was done they should have changed it in software too.



On 8/18/2017 8:10 PM, George Skorup wrote:
The antennas have to pass both the Tx and Rx channels, so no, they're 
not high/low. They'll either be 10.0-11.7 or 10.7-11.7.


10835 is your low, so 11325 would be your high side, which doesn't 
fall into that diplexer range either. WTF? Is your license for 
10835/11325 H+V? This is IP20/820C, right? So each radio has two 
diplexers. Is there only one label?


On 8/18/2017 7:17 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

I had the Low radio on the Low end, so that was correct.

But are you saying for sure this radio cannot select that low of a 
channel?


Also, now that I'm thinking of it, do the 3' Andrews dishes need to 
be High/Low?
I was pretty sure the 3' dishes typically covered the entire 11GHz 
band, right?


What do I do about the radios now?

I'm thinking of comparing the radio I got back from Ceragon with my 
other radio and seeing if somehow Ceragon did something or put a 
wrong part back on it.

Since it refuses to mount back on the antenna it used to mount to now...

Someone shoot me.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 5:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Another Ceragon ODU Frequency Question

Yeah, that's not gonna work real well, or at all. Is this the link 
where you had them backwards? Didn't you end up swapping them? Or did 
you open them up and change the diplexers?


On 8/18/2017 6:09 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

Ok, so maybe this is a problem and maybe not.

But our license says we transmit LOW at channel 10835MHz.

The sticker on the label of the LOW Ceragon ODU shows transmit at 
10915-11207MHz.


Does that mean I have the wrong ODU for this license?

Or is the IP-20C radio that I have capable of that channel and it's 
ok because that's just a sticker, not the limitations of the actual 
ODU transmit.


Anyone know?

Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon AGAIN, help please!

[Trey Scarborough]

If you don't have any luck with them shoot me an email with what model 
it is and I can help you out. I have a great deal of parts for Ceragon 
of all ages.



On 8/17/2017 11:55 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

On 8/17/2017 11:24 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

Here is the bent mount.

If I can get a replacement part, I guess I'm good to swap it out?



-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 10:19 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceragon AGAIN, help please!

I guess the photos didn't go through because there were three of them?

I'll try again in sequence.

Check out this antenna photo, there is a wasp caught flying in the lower right, 
lol

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 10:16 AM
To: 'af@afmug.com' 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ceragon AGAIN, help please!

They sent me back my radio in a box with little to no padding.


Check it out: https://youtu.be/lCKJjy1jBzg

It appears my ODU now has severely damaged/bent mounting and the holes don't 
line up.

They are taking no responsibility for it and want me to buy a mounting part to 
replace the damaged one.

Is that even possible in this case?

Attached are the photos for reference.

It's been over a year going on with the password 'bug' they didn't admit to, 
and shipping back and forth within Ceragon.
One of their non-tech guys got a hold of it and 'fixed' my password 'bug' 
supposedly, 'saving' me thousands of dollars they wanted to charge me to even 
touch the radio.

But not sure it was worth it now that the ODU is so damaged I can't mount it 
back on the antenna.

Can I just say, I really loath Ceragon at this point.
Their finger pointing and disregard for customers is appalling given I spent 
over $25k for this radio set orginally (and that was DISCOUNTED from retail 
$40K+)

Re: [AFMUG] installing licensed link before approval

[Trey Scarborough]

Please tell me this is not a AF11 or mimosa

On 8/8/2017 1:33 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Ya sorry didn't see your later email.  Thanks for the details!


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Hardy, Tim > wrote:


30 days is specified in 101.103, but as mentioned – most PCNs
today are expedited to 10-business days. If it’s a dire emergency
– life and limb, public safety or restoration of service, the FCC
allows STAs (Special Temporary Authority).  These can be granted
immediately by email but must be followed up with formal
applications and fees.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 08, 2017 1:57 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installing licensed link before approval

Can't you do a rush file or something like that?  7 or 14 days?

Is 30 days really not enough for you?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 12:01 PM, Hardy, Tim > wrote:

There is no authority to operate until the applications have
been filed – period.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 08, 2017 11:59 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installing licensed link before approval

Has the PCN passed with no objections? What does your
coordinator say?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 







*From: *"Steve Jones" >
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Tuesday, August 8, 2017 10:46:37 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] installing licensed link before approval

Im pretty sure the answer is an absolute no, and I know I CAN
do it without likely being caught.

If we have the gear on hand and are just waiting on the FCC, I
know we can physically install the radios, its just storage at
height at that point, but can we turn it on long enough to do
fine alignment?

Re: [AFMUG] fusion splicer recommendations?

[Trey Scarborough]

OH wow its Gerard I thought chuck found some place you had to trench the 
fiber with a spoon. You seem to be as sporadic on these lists as me.


back to the subject at hand. I recently picked up a Trensbatter no thats 
not a typo at least on my part. Its a clone of a Fujikura 60s. I have 
used Fujikuras for some time so I am used to the interface. It is a 
pretty good knock off. Only thing is the splice holders are not made to 
be used in the cleaver then moved to the splicer. It was a little 
annoying at first. After I got used to just moving the fiber from 
cleaver to splicer I found I actually could get it where the bare fiber 
was much smaller. all in all for less than 2k it has been pretty good.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/6-Motor-Core-Alignment-Optical-Fiber-Splicer-Similar-to-Fujikura-FUJIKURA-FSM-60S-70S-Fusion-Splicer/32480365770.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.D5dmcJ

Trey

On 8/8/2017 7:00 PM, Gerard Dupont III wrote:
We have a few of the Ruiyan RY-F600P core alignment fusion splicers 
from eBay. They're basic, but get the job done. Perfect for our 
install techs.


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=RY-F600P&_sacat=0

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 6:37 PM Adam Moffett > wrote:


Couldn't say.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" >
To: "af@afmug.com " >
Sent: 8/8/2017 6:35:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] fusion splicer recommendations?


Good info, I'm not sure how the 12S compares to the 19S
(replacement for 18S).

On Tuesday, August 8, 2017, Adam Moffett > wrote:

The spec sheet lists everything in Kit #2. Charger, cleaver,
and carrying case are all on the list.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 8/8/2017 5:36:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] fusion splicer recommendations?


Is that with a cleaver and battery? Pretty good price for a
fujikura. I paid about twice that for my 18S a few years ago.

On Monday, August 7, 2017, Adam Moffett
 wrote:

We recently got brand new Fujikura 12S Kit #2 for $3200.
From a vendor, not ebay.


-- Original Message --
From: "Rob Genovesi" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 8/7/2017 4:01:39 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] fusion splicer recommendations?

found some info on the list but it was about 2 years
ago so I thought
I'd ping again and see if there's any new info out
there.

Looking for recommendations on the E-bay variety
fusion splicers (ie:
$3-5k)  - wondering what people have tried and
liked?  IE the Eloik
ALK-88 http://www.eloik.org/products/ALK_88.html


-Rob

Re: [AFMUG] Need some fiber LC breakout cables overnight

[Trey Scarborough]

Sorry didn't read this till now. I have almost that many, but probably 
not all you need. I would try http://www.galaxyee.com they usually have 
that stuff in stock at a decent price.


On 5/23/2017 4:01 PM, Paul McCall wrote:


Anybody know a west coast source than can still ship these?  Need 20 
of these 12 fiber breakouts by tomorrow AM for a big splicing job.


https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dlawngarden=LC+12+count+pigtail

(Bare cable for splicing � to LC)

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800

pa...@pdmnet.net 

www.pdmnet.com 

www.floridabroadband.com 

Re: [AFMUG] extending fiber with RF

[Trey Scarborough]

I would use an 80ghz SIAE or Siklu and a 5ghz whatever flavor you prefer 
as a backup. 80ghz should be good for that distance easily with 2' antennas.



On 5/22/2017 3:26 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
That would do the job, but I'm not sure I'd call it something better 
than a Rocket, since it's going to be more or less the same guts 
(well, as an AC Rocket)... but the ones we have up have been pretty 
solid.
Power consumption on UBNT spec sheets tends to be a bit on the high 
side, in my experience (which it should, I guess, since it's listing 
the max)... an AF5x would use a bit more power, but not a lot - 
they're typically under 10 watts.


On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:


https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/IsoStation/IsoStation_5AC_DS.pdf

8.5 watts
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 2:04 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] extending fiber with RF

Then do a 24 GHz system. That can go 2-1/2 miles with 5 nines. Low
interference. Will eat around 50 watts at each end though.

bp


On 5/22/2017 12:47 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Scared of new technology.
Seems a bit too long range for that freq.
Worried about not enough time has elapsed to prove them out.
They sound expensive.
Everybody knows 60 GHz is all absorbed by the oxygen anyhow...
Not sure God would approve...
You all the same normal reasons...
*From:* Brett A Mansfield
*Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 1:44 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] extending fiber with RF
For so little throughput a 5GHz setup would be the cheapest and
probably best setup.
What keeps you from being a believer of the 60GHz? I can show you
the history of some of my Ignitenet links that may just change
your mind.

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

On May 22, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:


Not a believer yet.  And we only need 100-250 Mbps max to the
homes.  Actually probably more like 50 or 100 Mbps.
Want it to be simple too. ONT has multiple ethernet ports on
it.  Just extend those physical layer 0/1 connections.
*From:* Cameron Crum
*Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 1:34 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] extending fiber with RF
What about a couple of 60GHz links with a single 5GHz AP as a
backup? We did this for a bank that needed to connect two
buildings temporarily. Put a MT on either side that ran IPSEC
tunnel over the link with a failover script to route traffic
over the 5 GHz link if the 60 lost more than 50% of it's
packets. The 5 GHz was slower, but they still had connectivity
in the even of a heavy rain.
On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Chuck McCown 
wrote:

Still puzzling over how to get ethernet the last 3000 feet.
I have fiber to a point along a rural road.  The end is
about 2000 feet from one home and 3000 feet from another.
Was looking at using the existing copper with VDSL line
extenders.  That was what that week of math problems was all
about.  I am starting to lean away from that solution
because it is old copper.  I really want to stop using it.
I don’t have a ROW that is legal.  The old copper
technically is in trespass and the owner of the property is
known to be a major PITA.  So not sure if I can get
permission. Even then, we are talking about 5000 feet of
fiber to place.  There will be some money involved.
Using wireless could be much cheaper.  Will have to do a
solar install with the ONT and RF gear on a stub pole at the
handhole.
Not sure what kid of RF. Don’t want to use an AP because I
need two layer 2 connections from the ONT.  Be more
expensive to use an AP anyhow.  So two PTP systems. Rock
solid, never fail type of system. Noise floor down there is
probably pretty low.
I could use a pair of rockets etc.  Not wanting to lo-ball
this, want it to be very solid.
What would you use?

Re: [AFMUG] So pretty

[Trey Scarborough]

What fiber cable are you using here? does it have the power too?

On 4/21/2017 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

I like finger duct.
This is the after picture.I refuse to show you before.  It's too sad.


-- Original Message --
From: "Steve Jones" >

To: "af@afmug.com" >
Sent: 4/21/2017 2:43:02 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] So pretty

Im dealing with a clusterfuck of clusterfucks at a site, but at least 
this is pretty



But the question is for clarification on flapping ethernets with 
cambium, the

Re: [AFMUG] Sharing infrastructure you put in

[Trey Scarborough]

Typically no you shouldn't have to share, but it could be a requirement 
in some instances to provide available space if it exists due to permit. 
Usually only in large cities one way they get access for city and 
utility fiber. Another instance would be if you are a CLEC and you have 
a shared access agreement with ATT, VZ, Centrurlink, etc. there is would 
be a mutual rate described in this agreement.


On 5/21/2017 10:56 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

INAL, but it's all yours.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Paul McCall" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Sunday, May 21, 2017 10:54:29 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Sharing infrastructure you put in

I have some questions on those that are doing buried fiber.  We have 
not filed a CLEC status yet as I have contract review going with my 
uniquely grandfathered access to a local fiber ring, and want to make 
sure I don't mess that up.  So, that aside.


If my company puts in conduit in a right away to push fiber into and 
then someone else comes along, do we have to share that conduit with 
anyone (if there is room)?  My perception going the other way, is that 
if the LEC has conduit in place, the LEC may or may not have to share 
conduit space, and can't make reasons or excused or very long delays 
etc., to ultimately deter you from being able to do that.


I a considering doing conduit to 3 1000+ communities and then FTTH in 
those communities and don't feel great if I am in anyway also setting 
it up for a competitor to have access to my hard fought efforts (and 
$) to get in installed.


Is there ANY I could be forced to give them access to my conduit?

Paul

Re: [AFMUG] Underwater fiber

[Trey Scarborough]

This is a yes and no. It sounds easy, but the truth is you would have to 
bury it under the bottom.  I have done river crossings before and 
Permitting is a nightmare, and then construction if usually difficult as 
well. It normally would require boring underneath it many feet depending 
on the size it could be 20'. I have seen this done in LA before and it 
is impressive they custom built a boat that will cut a trench place the 
cable in.


On 4/27/2017 4:12 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

Dropping armored fiber cable in a lake isn't hard.

But obtaining permits and permission from the Lake Commission, and Utah Army 
Core of Engineers and other regulating bodies (cities) might be the real 
challenge.



-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Brett A Mansfield
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Underwater fiber

I am working on getting a link over a lake that is 12 miles wide. The lake is 
only 8 feet deep (Utah Lake in Utah County Utah).  I don't really have the 
means to run Fiber at the bottom of this lake, but it made me curious how 
someone would go about it? What kind of cable would be required, how would it 
be permitted, is this a common practice, etc? I just wanted to get people's 
thoughts on it.

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

[Trey Scarborough]

for 80 miles or ~120km you will need one of two things either a regen 
1/2 or really anywhere leaving less than 80k between spans or an 
amplification system.


If you have decent fiber you can probably get away with just a pair of 
edfa preamps this will bring up your signal to a level the sfp/xfp will 
be able receive. As far as Dispersion compensations for one channel at 
120k you will probably not have to worry about it with 80k optics, it 
may  be an issue but easy to fix with a couple of 100k ODCs. I would 
recommend just in case to use a DWDM filter for future proofing it in 
case you want to turn up another channel or if you want redundant 
connections. SFPs are the most common failures. I would look at no more 
than an 8 channel anything else and you would add too much loss and 
would require a booster amp as well.  I have ran this type of setup up 
to 170k with decent results. Anything more and you get into needing much 
more complicated system.


You can go with some FS hardware or some other good vendors that make 
transponders with integrated amps that would work  are

packetlight "part of the RAD group"
Ekinops you could probably do just use a pair of transponders


Some things you will want to is a full FOC data from whomever you are 
purchasing the fiber from. If it is regular rates you are paying it is 
reasonable to request this from them. If you are getting a deal they 
might not be willing to due to costs. At the minimum you will need OTDRS 
and ORL numbers. Don't accept the fiber if it has any bad splices or 
high loss fiber. a Full FOC will also give you your total dispersion in 
pico seconds you can use this to determine if you need compensation.


If you have this information hit me up off list and I can help you out 
with what you need.



On 4/14/2017 6:50 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:

Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017
From: "Paul McCall"

What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit?

   You can buy 10G XFPs rated at 75 miles (120 km). However, this won't do you 
much good if you are outside the optical budget or the chromatic dispersion 
limits. To know what your options are you really need to characterize your 
fiber first.

Furthermore your design will depend on your upgrade roadmap. Will you only ever 
use one 10G wavelength or will there be more down the line?

If you'll need multiple 10G wavelengths then you are looking at an amplified 
DWDM setup with chromatic dispersion compensation.

If you are ok with a single 10G only then you can look at trying that 75 mile 
XFP (perhaps with a small amp and some chromatic compensation) or even 
aggregating 1G waves using 200 km CWDM SFPs.

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] See Ya later copper

[Trey Scarborough]

oh they will keep doing dsl the last mile and less. They just want to be 
able to cut up there copper plant so they don't have to maintain the old 
circuit types like alarm lines and clec dsl pairs.



On 4/3/2017 11:35 AM, Chris Wright wrote:

DSL too.



Chris Wright

Network Administrator



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Timothy Steele
*Sent:* Monday, April 03, 2017 6:42 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] See Ya later copper



Better hurry up and get wireless to all the dialup customers...



On Mon, Apr 3, 2017, 8:55 AM Lewis Bergman > wrote:



*AT Wants Out of Maintaining Landlines in Illinois*

Telecom giant AT is asking for Illinois’ permission to scrap
requirements that the company maintain land-based phone lines,
according to the/ //Rock River Times/.

A recent survey said only four percent of people in Illinois still
rely solely on landlines. AT has to obtain consent from state
legislatures before they can petition the FCC to be allowed to cut
off the thousands of miles of land-based phone lines. Other states
want this option as well, so the FCC has a vote planned this month
by the U.S. Senate to accomplish this. In 2015, the Ohio state
legislature voted to allow basic landline services to be withdrawn
by the major telecom companies.  (/see story above/)

“It’s taking a large investment that could be spent covering the
vast majority of their customers for wireless or IP-based phone
services,” Brent Skorup, Technology Fellow with the Mercatus Center
told the /Rock River Times/.

Re: [AFMUG] Analog Phoneline Question

[Trey Scarborough]

Ah reminds me of the days of analog dialup and hunting through all the 
phone lines shorting them out to find the one in the 24 in that group 
that was just ringing through...


On 4/3/2017 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Yep.  Just short it out.
-Original Message- From: Nate Burke Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017
8:05 AM To: Animal Farm Subject: [AFMUG] Analog Phoneline Question
I have 4 analog lines in a hunt group, and the primary line has a bunch
of static from the phone company side.  Is there an easy way to take
that line 'off hook' at the DMARC so that incoming calls will roll over
and ring into the good lines, and have this offhook solution be easily
identifiable and removed by the phone company tech when he shows up in
the next 3 days to work on it?  Like jumper the 2 terminals together or
something?

Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

[Trey Scarborough]

So you have confirmed it works with ZTE then I am guessing by this 
response. Good to know I have quite a few of those around to test until 
the ONUs are in stock again.



On 3/31/2017 1:21 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
It works...I guess if you are looking to manage it in their platform, 
that might be difficult, but all you need is a profile for it on the OLT.


Regards,
Chuck

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 2:07 PM, > wrote:


I would not expect any random ONT to have full functionality. 
They might workish...

*From:* Jason McKemie
*Sent:* Friday, March 31, 2017 11:56 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON
So, other ONTs will work? The beta store is sold out of the
Ubiquiti ONTs every time I check.

On Friday, March 31, 2017, Chuck Hogg  wrote:

The UBNT equipment is plain GPON standard.  Works on other
GPON equipment.  ZTE included.
Regards,
Chuck
On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Jason McKemie
 wrote:

I've got a couple reels of 3/8" steel cable. Definitely
not light stuff...


On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett
 wrote:

1/4" steel cable + drop cable + jacketing
2+2 = 7
I'm sure that's not the bottom price, but it's not too
far out of whack either.
Figure-8 is also wicked heavy.  The spool weight will
surprise you.
-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 3/29/2017 1:01:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Yikes, I've bought 72 strand ADSS for less than that.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett
 wrote:

The most recent quote I got was $0.83/ft.
It's way expensive, but no separate messenger strand.
-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie"

To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 3/29/2017 11:54:27 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Gotcha. What sort of pricing are you getting on
the 12 strand figure-8? I've been using ADSS up
to this point since I can get closer to the
neutral with it, but figure-8 might work in some
new deployment scenarios.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett
 wrote:

Figure-8 drop.
Flat drop cable at $0.16/foot would
certainly be cost attractive, but I assumed
it can't go 500' aerialsome poles are
that far apart.
-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie"

To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 3/29/2017 11:35:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Were you figuring on doing this lashed or
just the flat drop cable? I've got a couple
scenarios that I was looking at using 12ct
flat drop, but the only way I can think of
to get it in the air is by using wedge
clamps. Not sure if these are good for the
distance between some of the utility poles
out there.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Adam Moffett
 wrote:

I think the idea is you can run a 12
strand aerial cable down a rural road. 
Since you're using this skinny cable,

you can use a $40 closure to put a PON
coupler in front of the customer prem.

My quick estimate is the difference
might be around $6,000 per
mile.that changes with assumptions
on how many houses are on that mile and
so onmaybe $4k to $6k is fairer.

I don't have pricing from Calix.  I'm
looking at Alphion...the ONT is pretty
close 

Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

[Trey Scarborough]

Forrest,

I think this is a great idea and would be one of the first to want 
some. If you could just run power and fiber up and get sync/power and 
fiber conversion in one unit it would simplify things greatly. I have 
been looking in to some of the gigabit sfp conversion as well for a 
different fiber device that I am trying to cobble together.  I have 
found some that I have torn apart there are the Mikrotik and UBNT ones 
that seem to probably be more complicated than what you are looking 
for.  Here is a list of ones I have used.


BB-elec industrial have these in black metal boxes in West Texas with no 
cooling and never had an issue.


http://www.bb-elec.com/Products/Ethernet-Media-Converters/Unmanaged-Media-Converters/IE-Giga-MiniMc-LFPT.aspx

Transition networks

https://www.transition.com/products/media-converters/mge-psw-sfp-01/

and some new ones I have started to play with

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SFP-Gigabit-Fiber-Optical-Media-Converter-Board-SFP-1000Mbps-Media-Conerter-Gigabit-Fiber-Transceiver-Board/32715964991.html

Trey

On 3/31/2017 10:46 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
They want a stand per radio,  with a fiber to universal poe converter 
on each strand.  That way all of their switchgear can be at the 
bottom.   If you replace all of the Lan ports in a syncinjector with 
sfp ports, then you get the idea.


I can think of lots of other ways to make this work,  enough that I 
wouldn't be inclined to build this except that this is definitely a 
recurring theme.  I think that the idea is that they really want to 
limit the quantity of gear at the top.  If it was me, I'd put either a 
poe switch up top or a bunch of those ubnt fiber to poe converters, 
but apparently there are quite a few wisps who don't like this idea.




On Mar 31, 2017 8:27 AM, "Paul McCall" > wrote:


How do not have a switch up if you have any form of a SyncInjector
there?   “the non-POE side of the injector” needs to go somewhere,
unless you are saying that every POE port has a corresponding
fiber port that would mate with a fiber strand coming down the
tower and have a router with a bunch of SFPs to match.

The S16 is a good model, just add Sync.  Extremely simple.  No
fiber terminations at the top.  (we use MST’s which are a cheap
reliable way to not have to do the tower top terminations)  The
next models of 16 will have additional SFP ports.  I assume when
UBNT APs have SFPs is when the additional SFPs would appear on the
S16 type device.

VLANing using a single fiber coming down the tower is a simple task.

Paul

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
(List Account)
*Sent:* Friday, March 31, 2017 10:08 AM
*To:* af >
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

What I keep hearing from customers is that they want to run a
multistrand cable up the tower and have an all in one box at the
top which they terminate the cable into, hook up power to it,  and
then run short jumpers to their radios.   I've heard this from
enough different customers that it seems like a common desire.

They all seem to want the box to do media conversion and power
injection and sync,  with remote control and not much more. When
quizzed about just doing a switch and an injector up top, they all
expressed how this was unacceptable.

At this point I'm looking at feasability.  I'm not sure if this
will ever see the light of day,  a lot depends on the amount of
R required.

On Mar 31, 2017 7:07 AM, "Paul McCall" > wrote:

Forrest,

For what it is worth, when we went Fiber (MST) up the tower,
we run UBNT S16s up there which is simple and working well,
and GPS pucks on the ePMP, or Syncbox 12 (or Junior) for
devices that need sync.  We have a handful of 450s, 25  320s,
and a dozen or so 900s where we use the SyncBox.

Been very pleased so far with the reliability of the S16 POE. 
We VLAN APs in one group and BH’s each on their own VLAN, and

bring it down the fiber.  If we have other devices with fiber,
we bring them down on their own fiber (off the same MST).  Of
course there is core router with fiber inputs only being used
(with the exception of the sitemonitor which I may have to buy
a media converter for just to isolate the electrical
connection into the router.

So, as far as anything up top, I would think it would have to
be some form of switch, or it would be quite kludgy.

Paul

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Forrest
Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 

Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

[Trey Scarborough]

Me three!


On 3/31/2017 10:51 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I know a guy that wants that too.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Josh Luthman" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Friday, March 31, 2017 10:16:28 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

I really really really really really want every radio to do SFP and DC.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> wrote:


What I keep hearing from customers is that they want to run a
multistrand cable up the tower and have an all in one box at the
top which they terminate the cable into, hook up power to it,  and
then run short jumpers to their radios.   I've heard this from
enough different customers that it seems like a common desire.

They all seem to want the box to do media conversion and power
injection and sync,  with remote control and not much more.   When
quizzed about just doing a switch and an injector up top, they all
expressed how this was unacceptable.

At this point I'm looking at feasability.  I'm not sure if this
will ever see the light of day,  a lot depends on the amount of
R required.

On Mar 31, 2017 7:07 AM, "Paul McCall" > wrote:

Forrest,

For what it is worth, when we went Fiber (MST) up the tower,
we run UBNT S16s up there which is simple and working well,
and GPS pucks on the ePMP, or Syncbox 12 (or Junior) for
devices that need sync. We have a handful of 450s, 25  320s,
and a dozen or so 900s where we use the SyncBox.

Been very pleased so far with the reliability of the S16 POE. 
We VLAN APs in one group and BH’s each on their own VLAN, and

bring it down the fiber.  If we have other devices with fiber,
we bring them down on their own fiber (off the same MST).  Of
course there is core router with fiber inputs only being used
(with the exception of the sitemonitor which I may have to buy
a media converter for just to isolate the electrical
connection into the router.

So, as far as anything up top, I would think it would have to
be some form of switch, or it would be quite kludgy.

Paul

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Forrest
Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 8:26 PM
*To:* af >
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

I've torn a couple apart that use a fairly easy to use
chipset.  But only available in commercial temperature range.

Some of the battle here is figuring out the vendors who do
this type of stuff.  I want to avoid switches since I want
this as transparent as possible,  but I might end up having to
go there.  I have another secret weapon in my arsenal but I'm
hoping I don't have to go there since that's more software and
software takes time.

On Mar 30, 2017 2:21 PM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote:

I looked at doing media converters last year. Not trivial.

*From:*Forrest Christian (List Account)

*Sent:*Thursday, March 30, 2017 2:07 PM

*To:*af

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

Yeah, maybe I should be clearer what I'm looking at.

I'm looking at various options to build a tower-top box to
simplify the fiber up the tower with syncronized radios at
the top..  Think a multiport ubiquiti fiberpoe with sync
over power and a gps receiver built in, along with
tower-top management.

I don't want to include a switch up top - most people want
as little as possible up there, and I'd rather keep the
whole thing as simple as possible - I'd rather just use a
copper-to-sfp chipset, but I haven't found any which I
feel comfortable integrating.   So I need to tear 

Re: [AFMUG] Splice on Connectors

[Trey Scarborough]

I can say from experience that I would not use Uni-cams in an outdoor 
cabinet. I have had many of them fail. The other issue you get with them 
is that they can cause issues with DWDM systems if you ever plan on 
using something like that at the sight. if you are using them for the 
bottom of a tower your failure rate will probably not be that big of an 
issue. It takes many years and won't be a pig deal for short 
connections. I haven't really experienced the degrade over time or 
noticed it at least. it seems to be more it works fine one day the next 
you get 10db of los through a connector.


If you are going to direct fiber SOC connectors be aware they are 
typically longer and less flexible at the boot as a normal jumper. so if 
you are real tight on space make sure you have plenty of room from your 
equipment to the door of the cabinet...


If you are short on space in a cabinet you can always put a splice 
outside and get a premade jumper. That is what I would recommend.


On 3/29/2017 10:35 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I just watched a video.  The installation tool for Unicam looks really 
slick.


It appears to be a mechanical connection with index matching gel.  The 
same vendor pushing SOC's was poo-pooing mechanical connections.  They 
say the index matching gel changes from clear to clearish/brownish as 
it ages.  The claim is that after enough years you start getting a 
significant attenuation, whereas a fusion splice is permanent.  They 
didn't quantify the loss/year.




-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 3/29/2017 11:10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Splice on Connectors


We use Unicams everywhere.
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 29, 2017 9:01 AM
*To:* Animal Farm
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Splice on Connectors
I have a vendor who's really pimping their SOC's.  The idea is you 
can splice the connector onto a 900um fiber and then plug directly 
into your electronics.  No splice tray.
So in theory I could put a fan out kit on each buffer tube coming 
into an enclosure and then with SOC's go directly into the switch.  I 
do have a space limitation at the moment (long story), so eliminating 
splice trays and patch panels is sounding really good right now.

Does anybody love/hate SOC's?
Also how does the splice in the SOC not need additional support when 
a normal splice sleeve does? Does the connector body really protect 
it well enough?

Re: [AFMUG] the unicorn is here! was: Small Scale PON

[Trey Scarborough]

I'm still waiting for mine ordered it last week. Thinking it won't make 
it here.


On 3/28/2017 5:37 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:

Yes with 1

From: Af > on behalf
of Jason McKemie >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com " >
Date: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 at 4:33 PM
To: "af@afmug.com " >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] the unicorn is here! was: Small Scale PON

Does it come with the optics?

*//*

*/Gino Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Gino Villarini > wrote:



From: Af > on
behalf of PE R >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com " >
Date: Monday, March 27, 2017 at 7:52 PM
To: "af@afmug.com " >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

OLT subscriber ranges can actually range to 512 (vs 256) per OLT or
higher, or, mix with XGS in the same shelf.

*//*

*/Gino Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968


*From:* Josh Reynolds >
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2017 5:06 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Put it this way, for each connection on AE you have two SFP optics
and a port on a switch. You also probably want to battery back that.

For gpon you just push your 8 or 16 or 32 subs to a splitter that
can fit inside someone's pocket and then single strand to your OLT
with your non-$800 or so from what I remember Calix Pon optic :P

Battery back the OLT, sure, but that's anywhere from 64 to 256 subs
per, and a lot lower battery requirements.

I think your Calix experience has really skewed you to what's out
there, to be fair.

On Mar 27, 2017 4:58 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Yes and no.  Pretty much the same amount of fiber depending on
where you locate the splitters or switches.

On AE you battery back the switch.
On GPON you battery back the OLT/OIM.

At the remote cabinet, you either have a cheap switch and SFPs.
-or-
You have an expensive OLT/OIM and splitter.



*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2017 3:53 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

AE requires a lot more electronics and optics. And fiber. And
battery backup. Etc.

On Mar 27, 2017 4:33 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Years ago, there was a break even point on active vs PON.
If you had 16 or more in an area that could take a PON it
was worth doing the PON.
But that was comparing Calix AE vs Calix PON.  If you do AE
like Sterling I don't think PON is ever cost effective
compared to Calix PON.

With PON you still have to have a drop to each home.  The
cost of  the cable is in the placement, not in the cable itself.
So the question is, where do you place the splitter vs where
do you place the switch and SFPs.  Personally, I would do it
Sterling style on new greenfield.  The ONLY reason I do it
with the expensive PON is we are a regulated common carrier
with provider of last resort obligations.  I have to give
POTS that is battery backed up, legally required to do this.

Cannot risk a 911 call not going through due to a power
outage etc.  Cannot trust the customer to not unplug a UPS.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small Scale PON

Yeah, so PON vs AE was actually the next research project
for me to
tackle.

It seems like there ought to be savings with PON because of
lower fiber
count.lower fiber count ought to lead to smaller/cheaper
enclosures.
Less junk at the head end too.  I haven't gotten that far
yet, but I
was thinking I might "scrimp" with PON.  You're saying maybe
not?



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/27/2017 4:54:08 PM

Re: [AFMUG] 450M

[Trey Scarborough]

I can say it works fine with 130+ that's what we have on up to so far.


On 3/6/2017 5:51 PM, George Skorup wrote:
The VC limit is still 238 on 2.5ms framing. 5ms framing cuts that in 
half. The HP channel enabled on an SM also sucks up a VC, so keep that 
in mind.


On 3/6/2017 5:35 PM, Dan Petermann wrote:

Maximum amount of SMs.

The 450s have a limit of 200 (or so). Practically, you run out of 
bandwidth before reaching that limit.


With the 450M having a potential of 3-4 times the bandwidth capacity, 
the number of VCs available may become a limit. Right now we hit 
60-70 customers per AP before the downlink utilization is hitting max 
capacity. With three times the bandwidth available, 180-210 customers 
becomes doable. If 10-15% has our voip service, that cuts the 
available VCs down and limits the amount of customers that can be 
installed.


Will that happen? Probably not, and if so, thats a good problem to have.

I�m curious if the max SM count has been increased.

On Mar 6, 2017, at 4:19 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

I don't think there is an answer.  Or are you asking what is the 
maximum number of SMs it will register to?

At one time, in the early days of Canopy, the answer was 200.

Or are you asking about loading and performance?

-Original Message- From: Dan Petermann
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] 450M

How many SMs can a 450M handle?

I can�t seem to find the answer in the manual

Re: [AFMUG] 18GHz licensed

[Trey Scarborough]

Hmm Xpic if you can get 40mhz on H and V. are you trying to make this go 
30 miles though...



On 2/14/2017 10:17 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:

I have a link where only 40MHz is available.  What would my best option
be to get more than 500Mbps out of it?  2048QAM is limited to 347Mbps.



*Rory Conaway **� Triad Wireless �**CEO*

*4226 S. 37^th Street � Phoenix � AZ 85040*

*602-426-0542*

*r...@triadwireless.net *

*www.triadwireless.net *

* *

�The successful man is the one who finds out what is the matter with his
business before his competitors do.� - Roy L. Smith

Re: [AFMUG] Raid Controller Recommendations

[Trey Scarborough]

If it is for network attached storage I would recommend against hardware 
raid and use btrfs or zfs. I have to many issues with corrupted raid 
information on drives. The advances with these file systems make raid 
almost obsolete.


On 2/9/2017 10:42 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Drives are cheap.  RAID 1 is obsolete.  Buy 2 more drives and use something 
like RAID 10?

AFAIK yes Adaptec and LSI are still the main players.  I have one server with 
Adaptec RAID but the place I ordered it from now seems to only carry LSI, not 
sure why.  Some of those cards can throw off a lot of heat and adding fans to 
the chassis may make sense, especially if it's a 1U server, many servers don't 
have all the fans populated by default and adding 1-2 more may not cost much.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 10:18 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Raid Controller Recommendations

I'm looking for a simple hardware raid controller to setup 2 drives in Raid 1.  
The motherboard has the ICH9R controller which can do Raid1, but it looks like 
the monitoring software isn't compatible with Windows
10 (I just bricked the box trying to install an older version)

It's been a while since I've purchased raid cards.  I think my last one's were 
3ware, which is now LSI.  Are Adaptec and LSI still the main players?

Re: [AFMUG] 11GHz and 18GHz real throughput

[Trey Scarborough]

I have a 18ghz 15mile link with no issues. and 4' dishes. It was the 
only thing I could get 80mhz channels in.


shouldn't be a problem with 11ghz at all just depends on the equipment 
used. It also depends on your definition of huge... For some its 3" for 
others it is 8'. completely acceptable for most rain regions with 4' dishes.


On 2/8/2017 7:54 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/610/img/photos/2017/02/08/94/08/sex-offender-sought.jpg

I've seen this too, doesn't mean I'd recommend anyone do it.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Jeremy" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Wednesday, February 8, 2017 7:51:51 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 11GHz and 18GHz real throughput

I have seen an 18GHz link that far with 6' dishes.

On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 6:42 PM, Mike Hammett > wrote:

Not a chance at 18. Maybe 11, but that's even far for 11 GHz without
huge dishes.

Play with Mimosa's designer, Cambium's LinkPlanner, etc.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Brett A Mansfield" >
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Wednesday, February 8, 2017 7:38:58 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] 11GHz and 18GHz real throughput

Hi,

I've never yet done a licensed link and there is plenty of these two
frequencies available in my area. I need to be able to get 500Mbps
at about 15 miles. Is that possible with either of these?

What kind of real world speeds can I expect out of these and what
channel size do I need to license to get those speeds?

Is there something else I should consider? What brand/model radios
and dishes, what other frequencies for easier licensing, etc?

It would be great to be able to get a gig that distance, but I'm
trying to be realistic and get just what I really need to start with.

No legal advice please, just your experience with it and any
knowledge you'd be able/willing to share with the licensing of these
frequencies.

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

Re: [AFMUG] batteries good deal?

[Trey Scarborough]

I can tell you I took an hour trying to explain this term to my wife, 
who is Israeli. After an hour I gave up because either she didn't 
understand the term in reference. I attribute this to her either not 
understanding it because that is just how you purchase things, and there 
is not comprehension of another way. That or she didn't understand how 
someone would be offended by that association because why would you be 
offended by an association that means that your culture is 
representative of not being a dumb ass and paying to much.


On 1/30/2017 2:51 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

Is it okay to jew people down if they're jews? or if you're a jew? :P
And does it offend actual jews to call it jewing, or just other people?

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:

I “jew” people down all the time.  Most of the the time I don’t tell
them I am “jewing” them down.  But that is what I am doing.  One old
Jew, Marvin, I tell him I am gonna jew him down.  Sometimes he jews
me down.

*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Monday, January 30, 2017 12:23 PM
*To:* Animal Farm
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] batteries good deal?

Wow...You did not just go there ? "Jew" .Damn!!

On Jan 30, 2017 11:24 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"
 wrote:

recycling value may halve your costs if theyre no good, its a
good risk probably. while youre picking them up you can probably
jew some other stuff out of the guy

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:20 PM, Chuck McCown 
wrote:

Good point, if they have been stone dead and sitting outside
all this time they are scrap metal.

*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, January 30, 2017 11:18 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] batteries good deal?


So these are C brand AGM batteries?



What have they been doing since 2014?  Sitting on a pallet?
Being float charged?  In service in said 3 Phase UPS?
Depending on shipping cost, it sounds like a remarkable
deal, but not if they have been charged and discharged for
2-3 years worth of power outages.



I have bought new-old-stock AGM telecom batteries that sat
on pallets for 12 months, and they required almost no
charging to bring them up to full state of charge.  (I think
after a year from date of manufacturer they can’t be sold as
new anymore.)  Flooded cell batteries would be a different
story if they were just sitting there discharging since
2014, they would probably be totally discharged.





*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Zach
Underwood
*Sent:* Monday, January 30, 2017 12:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] batteries good deal?



I am planning a home solar setup and came across someone
that is selling the batteries from a 3 Phase UPS. There are
36x ups12-300mr(12v at 78AH) I think that I could get the
whole lot for ~$600. the batteries have a date of
manufacture of 2014. Is this a good deal.




-- 

Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)

My website 

advance-networking.com 




--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see
your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of
the team.

Re: [AFMUG] 450 vs 450i

[Trey Scarborough]

I would make the jump to the 450m if you have 12 APs on the one tower 
and combine two or more in to one. I have seen 140+ customers on one 450m.



On 1/19/2017 10:54 AM, Eric Muehleisen wrote:
We've done that. This particular tower has 12 AP's on it. It's in a 
noisy environment as well. We sent out our techs to improve many of 
the 1x & 2x subs and only gained about 5mb/s. It was a lot of effort 
with very little payoff. Our techs have a better understanding of what 
poor SM's can do to the AP. So that's a plus.


I was hoping someone had done a direct replacement of 450 to 450i and 
could share their results. Perhaps it's time to look at the 450m a 
little closer.


On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 10:45 AM, Sean Heskett > wrote:


It sounds like you have a lot of weak signal clients. You should
see the AP max out at 50-60mbps but only if the majority of
clients are 6x or 8x.

Can you add stingers or dishes to the SMs??

The 450i will give you more PPS but that's probably not the issue.

I would just add another 450AP aimed in the same direction and
split the load.

-Sean


On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:33 AM Eric Muehleisen
> wrote:

We currently have a pile of 450 AP's that top out around 100%
downlink utilization which gives us between 30-35mb/s downlink
capacity.

We are considering the 450m but doesn't make sense, cost wise,
in many of our locations. What kind of improvement you think
you would see by upgrading to 450i AP?

Our AP's are configured for 20mhz and 75% downlink.

Re: [AFMUG] epmp vs 450 comparison

[Trey Scarborough]

Your biggest difference is your throughput per MHZ your epmp will do 
less bandwidth in a 20mhz channel than a 450. he other big difference is 
subscriber density. It is not recommended to go over 20-30 subs per AP 
on epmp without loss of performance. I regularly see 450 APs with 70+ 
subs per AP. With Medusa I have seen over 130. As far as the Medusa not 
being field proven you may not have field tested it yet, but I know for 
a fact it has been tested and running on networks for some time now and 
a viable solution.


If you have any more questions feel free to hit me up off list.

On 1/5/2017 7:36 AM, David Milholen wrote:

The radios on these 2 are entirely different. One is using std based
radio and the other completely proprietary.

Since framing will be slightly different and so will processing delay.
The stds based radio gets close to mimicking the

450 series but thats strictly based on Cambium magic. Capacity and
sustained rates per VC is the where you will see a difference.

Latency will be very consistent from ap to sub. PMP450i is where its at.



On 1/4/2017 2:55 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

if im running 75/25, epmp is roughly 87mb capacity, 450 93mb capacity
is this correct?

are efficiencies batter on 450 if installation is the same? ie, if I
forlifted one AP with 17 epmps to 450, where would my gains be
assuming everything stays installed in the same spot. Its not like the
FCC gives 450 any more power than epmp, so path loss should be the same.
Im looking at this epmp 1000 sector thats running overall about 64-7%
efficient with 17 subscribers and wondering what the gain is to move
to 450 (exclude medusa, as its not field proven)

--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.


--

Re: [AFMUG] RouterOS License question

[Trey Scarborough]

On 1/3/2017 5:32 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

I just backed up and restored a RouterOS virtual machine.

Is there a way to just confirm that the license is still valid?





Go to System License in winbox or ssh /system license print

Re: [AFMUG] Wiring porn

[Trey Scarborough]

Most issues have been to poor speed issues do to a crap switch chipset. 
I doubt that you are going to run into that in an install like this.


On 12/6/2016 7:39 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

We use industrial switches allot from various vendors but we use TS-5
for Ubiquiti radios... honestly few problems

On Dec 6, 2016 6:04 PM, "Mike Hammett" > wrote:

The one inside my house powering cameras that are only inside my
house...  crapped out.

They're universally known as being junk.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Jaime Solorza" >
*To: *"Animal Farm" >
*Sent: *Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:03:19 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wiring porn

We have no issues with quite a few installations.   We have very few
lightning strike issueswe have very few RF issuesmaybe we
are doing something right.

On Dec 6, 2016 5:58 PM, "Mike Hammett" > wrote:

Correct, why Tough Switch? Put politely, they're not very good.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Jaime Solorza" >
*To: *"Animal Farm" >
*Sent: *Tuesday, December 6, 2016 6:54:28 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wiring porn

Y what? Tough switch... Ubiquiti 5Ghz radios and cameras..

On Dec 6, 2016 5:35 PM, "Mike Hammett" > wrote:

Why?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 






*From: *"Jaime Solorza" >
*To: *"Animal Farm" >
*Sent: *Tuesday, December 6, 2016 5:46:58 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Wiring porn

One of two wired testing and then ready for
install...space under PLC will be for a shelf to secure
Tough Switch...

Re: [AFMUG] Serial over IP

[Trey Scarborough]

YEs you can if you have the model of mikrotiks with serial interfaces. 
If not you can find a compatable USB to serial adapter as well. I have 
done this serial->mikrotik->IP_>linux->IP->Mikrotik->Serial before  with 
a linux box connecting the different ip sessions using a raspberry 
pi/Beagleboard. This could theoretically be done with an openwrt image 
running on one of the Mikrotiks. all that would need to be done is for 
it to initiate the telnet/ssh sessions and bridge them.



On 11/22/2016 5:06 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
Could I somehow tunnel the serial connection from the device to the 
control panel with Mikrotik?  There's no PC in the mix, just a serial 
DCE to a DTE.  If a pair of Mikrotiks could do this, that would save 
me the trouble of buying something.

-- Original Message --
From: "Trey Scarborough" <t...@3dsc.co <mailto:t...@3dsc.co>>
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 11/22/2016 6:01:21 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Serial over IP


You can always use to mikrotik boards with serial interfaces or usb 
serial. Works quite well.



On 11/22/2016 1:16 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
If I want to extend an RS232 connection over IP, what sort of 
options do I have?
It's for an LCD control panel for a piece of equipment.  Google 
shows me lots of serial-IP servers where it bridges a telnet session 
to the serial port, but that's not what I'm looking for.  I know you 
industrial control guys do this, so I'm sure there's a way.

Re: [AFMUG] Serial over IP

[Trey Scarborough]

You can always use to mikrotik boards with serial interfaces or usb 
serial. Works quite well.



On 11/22/2016 1:16 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
If I want to extend an RS232 connection over IP, what sort of options 
do I have?
It's for an LCD control panel for a piece of equipment.  Google shows 
me lots of serial-IP servers where it bridges a telnet session to the 
serial port, but that's not what I'm looking for.  I know you 
industrial control guys do this, so I'm sure there's a way.

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium PMP450 3.65 pricing?

[Trey Scarborough]

There are the 3.65 LTE radios out there and the client costs are much less.

On 11/20/2016 10:09 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

No I'm not good with paying that price for it but what else are we
supposed to do? That's still the cheapeast 3.65ghz solution out right
now. Now its going to get real interesting if Airfiber PtMP comes out
with some 3.65ghz gear

On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 10:48 PM, Ken Hohhof > wrote:

Depends on what you mean by "good".

Actually we buy the 20M SM at around $315 and for special occasions the
uncapped integral panel at around $500 including the tilt bracket,
so worse
than your $275.

They are certainly more expensive than we'd like, but you do what
you gotta
do.  We do have a lot of 3.65 Lite APs so we save a little at that end.

If you go through a lot of them, I'd work with your reseller to
negotiate a
volume discount from Cambium.  Like commit to 200 SMs over the next
year,
see if they'll give you a better price, and then take deliveries 50 at a
time.  It won't be 50% off, but you'll probably get something.  On
the other
hand, if you're like me and most of your volume is 5 GHz, then just open
your wallet, unless you want to do LTE.



-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ]
On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2016 9:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium PMP450 3.65 pricing?

Is everyone good with paying $275 for cambium 10Mbps SMs ? Or has
everyone
just jumped ship?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

Re: [AFMUG] Any Licensed MW gear doing Channel Aggregation?

[Trey Scarborough]

If you are wanting to do a same polarization on a 30 and 40mhz channel 
Only one I can think of that does this in one radio is SIAE at the 
moment. They have a co-polar diplex unit internal. You could do it as 
well with a ceragon possibly and an external diplexer.


On 9/21/2016 1:36 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

what if you did SAF integra radios in a 2+0 config, one radio on your
30Mhz channel and the other on the 40Mhz channel and then used their 2+0
aggregation (in reality it's an internal switch that does LAG).

i don't think anyone has a 1 radio head unit that can aggregate, and i'm
not sure how you'd license it with the FCC.  with the 2+0 the licensing
is clean, you are just combining them at layer 2 and 3.

-sean



On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini > wrote:

I got  paths were we have several licenses for 30 mhz  and 40 mhz
channels, any gear supports channel aggregation?

Re: [AFMUG] Rise Broadband Speeds

[Trey Scarborough]

Yeah ZTE did a big write up about their deployment with Rise.

On 9/21/2016 12:45 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Hmmm,  yes, the LTE.  Had not thought about that.  I wonder if it
actually does the trick.

-Original Message- From: Trey Scarborough
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 11:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rise Broadband Speeds

On 9/21/2016 12:35 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

They are advertising 300 Mbps now.  Can the Medusa actually deliver
that?  What PMP APs and SMs can honestly deliver that?



They do have fiber in some areas now...

As well I believe Rory has success with some deployments of Mimosa close
to those speeds. Some LTE devices "should" be capable of it as well.

Re: [AFMUG] Rise Broadband Speeds

[Trey Scarborough]

On 9/21/2016 12:35 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

They are advertising 300 Mbps now.  Can the Medusa actually deliver
that?  What PMP APs and SMs can honestly deliver that?



They do have fiber in some areas now...

As well I believe Rory has success with some deployments of Mimosa close 
to those speeds. Some LTE devices "should" be capable of it as well.

Re: [AFMUG] Leads wanted for a source for 1U rackmount enclosures.

[Trey Scarborough]

have you tried http://protocase.com/ I have used them for some customer 
Mikrotik cases in the past. They were pretty reasonable for a run of 
less than 50 for what I was doing at the time.


On 9/15/2016 8:00 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

Forrest, Maybe try http://www.plinkusa.net/1u.htm

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account)
> wrote:

@!#?@!.

My enclosure manufacturer for the rackmount injectors seems to be
AWOL.   Lots of productive conversations back and forth over the
past few months, but now it comes time to actually finalize prints
and order the first batch, and well.. nothing.   Evidently sending
them a finalized drawing and asking for instructions on how to get
these ordered is a good way to get them to quit responding.

I'm still hopeful that this is just a bump on the road (someone's on
vacation, they're backlogged, etc.), but this just isn't a good sign.

If anyone is aware of a supplier which can make 1U enclosures, in
reasonable quantities (50-100 at a time, not sure how many a year,
hopefully lots more than that), and most importantly at a reasonable
price, I'd appreciate the lead.

I'm reviewing all of the well-known enclosure manufacturers (Bud,
OKW, Hammond, Schroff, etc.) to see if I can fit into one of them
and can get them modified at a price which I think all of you can
afford.  Past experience indicates to me that there is a good chance
that this isn't going to be productive, which is why I'm asking.

--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com
 | http://www.packetflux.com

  

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik hEX PoE Lite PoE port

[Trey Scarborough]

   There is also a feature in some of the newer firmware that will do 
this automatically if a PPPOE connection drops or watchdog ping.


Trey

On 9/1/2016 11:46 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:

Awesome.  Thanks.



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jon Langeler
*Sent:* Thursday, September 1, 2016 9:31 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik hEX PoE Lite PoE port



Winbox

Jon Langeler

Michwave Technologies, Inc.


On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:20 AM, Rory Conaway > wrote:

So I’m assuming you can  you do it from the GUI or command line?



Rory



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, September 1, 2016 8:40 PM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik hEX PoE Lite PoE port



Yes - there's even a button to cycle it.



On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 10:33 PM, Rory Conaway
> wrote:

Can you toggle the power on the PoE output port to reset a radio?



*Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •**CEO*

*4226 S. 37^th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*

*602-426-0542 *

*r...@triadwireless.net *

*www.triadwireless.net *

* *

“Baseball, it is said, is only a game.  True.  And the Grand Canyon
is only a hole in Arizona”.  -  George Frederick Will

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Long HDMI cable

[Trey Scarborough]

On 8/23/2016 1:13 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:

I need an HDMI cable that is 35 feet long but I'm really not familiar
with that product. Does anyone have recommendations for a brand, style
and vendor? Bonus points go to anyone that knows a vendor that can
overnight it.




Mono price

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=15645

Re: [AFMUG] WISP ethics

[Trey Scarborough]

I agree if they are selling the router along with installing it for $80 
and they are not selling it as a new router I don't see the problem. Its 
a $10 plus say $10 for shipping and $60 to install it. If that was geek 
squad the bill would probably come out to $300...


I agree if this is a competitor just sell a better faster router for 
less with install.


On 8/22/2016 8:07 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

If this is your competition, I encourage you to forget about it. Nothing
productive will come of it.


On Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 7:33 PM Josh Luthman > wrote:

That doesn't really answer the questions though.  Sounds like the
second one kinda...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Aug 22, 2016 7:47 PM, "Eric Kuhnke" > wrote:

A CPE radio was installed and aimed, ubnt PoE injector put in
place, and the router connected to the LAN side of the PoE...

The CPE radio installation was its own installation service
charge and equipment fee separate from the $80 line item for the
router.



On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Josh Luthman
> wrote:

If it's sold as new?  That's wrong.

If it's sold as a service (go to house, install router,
leave)?  That's fine.

If it's sold as a used product?  That's fine.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 6:57 PM, Eric Kuhnke
> wrote:

Many WISPs rent routers or sell home wifi routers to
their customers.

Some routers are used pulls from other customers, get
factory defaulted and configured for new customers.

Nothing wrong with this.

If you saw a WISP that was taking used routers from
customer pulls and re-selling them to another customer
at $80/piece, and that router was this exact model:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/NETGEAR-WNR1000-WIRELESS-N-N150-WIRELESS-ROUTER-RANGEMAX-4-PORT-SWITCH-/171392676852?hash=item27e7ccb3f4:g:D8sAAOSwKPNTzDRY

Would you consider it to be ethically questionable? I
could not in good conscience sell such a feeble,
obsolete $10 router for $80.


This is not a 'rented' router, this was an actual
purchase line item on a customer invoice.

Re: [AFMUG] Console server with cellular connectivity for OOB management

[Trey Scarborough]

I use a Mikrotik RB912UAG-2HPnD with a 4g pcie and sim ~$200 in 
equipment and depending on the provider $9-30 a month for service I get 
the lowest tier data on a prepaid plan So if it goes over and I need 
faster speeds I can just pay for the usage needed. So far the cards I am 
using work well with both with ATT and T-mobile.



On 8/4/2016 1:07 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

I know that the airconsole guys are supposed to have support for 3G
USB dongles "soon". I don't know if that means "tomorrow" or "two
WISPAPALOOZAS" from now :P

www.get-console.com

On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 9:43 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:

Anybody doing this?  I'm looking at various Avocent Cyclades models that I
can 'plug' some type of cellular GSM modem into.. or maybe one that has an
integrated modem?

Not trying to spend a fortune here, so I'm probably looking for something
used on eBay.

Josh

Re: [AFMUG] mikrotik present as loopback address

[Trey Scarborough]

I set mine up by default the long way. So that all traffic generated by 
default from my routers is the Loopback address. Its good for 
EOIP/BGP/IPSEC/Radius/Syslog/etc. Then again like I said I set it up 
from the start this way so it can change a lot of configurations if you 
do it after anything is programed to use another IP.



On 8/9/2016 12:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

There is  reason why I suggested you go the short way.

The long way, is the technical attribute that can offer you a fix, but I
cringe t think of how it may affect your network.


:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net



*From: *"That One Guy /sarcasm" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Tuesday, August 9, 2016 1:22:03 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] mikrotik present as loopback address

can you detail the long way
in this instance, I just want it to be if it is traffic generated by
the router destined for tcp port 25 present as 1.2.3.4 but dont
impact anything else, what I dont want to risk is OSPF breaking or
dropping an EOIP tunnel because that traffic is presenting differently

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 12:14 PM, Faisal Imtiaz
> wrote:

There is a long way to solve this problem and there is a short
way to solve this problem.

short way first:-

Mikrotik supports user authentication on out bound mail, so all
you need to do is create a valid email user account on our mail
server  and use those credentials in your MT router Email
settings so that you don't need an 'open mail relay'.

Long way:-

There is a setting call set-pref-src=  in the routing filters,
which accomplishes what you are asking for, however you will
have to figure out on how exactly to tailor it to work for your
environment. (I had to find this setting for one of our Peering
Routers, a bit of a long story).

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518  Option 2 or
Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net



*From: *"That One Guy /sarcasm" >
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:51:03 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] mikrotik present as loopback address

right or wrong, i want to set up an open mail relay on our
network for mikrotik backups. I want to lock the relay down
to only accept traffic from our internal subnet for loopback
IPs on the site routers. How do I make specific traffic
always present as the same IP no matter which interface it
exits since i cant seem to find a way to masquerade the
output chain
if it is doable, is there also a way to add a line to our
default configs that will set the presentation IP to
whatever the loopback IP on that device is?

--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but
you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already
failed as part of the team.




--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] network device map/wiki/management/database/documentation system

[Trey Scarborough]

There area some out there some are out of most budgets.

Oracle Metasolv
Circuit Vision
Granit


On 8/5/2016 12:40 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

seriously, if you have the budget, look at Castlerock SNMPc but
only if you have the budget... did I mention budget? if you dont have
the budget dont look at it. If you want what you want,  but also have
the budget, then look at it otherwise, dont look at it

On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 7:02 PM, Faisal Imtiaz > wrote:

I share your sentiment and painand there is a lot you are
leaving out ...related to keeping track of other bits of related
information, keeping it updated on a regular basis

after trying lots of things... we are getting ready to pull the
trigger on this...

https://www.i-doit.com/en/

It's a German Company... but the product is very interesting, very
flexible, and may get you thinking on a few other section of the
business, how you keep info, organize info etc.

Do keep us posted on what you end up with.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518  Option 2 or Email:
supp...@snappytelecom.net



*From: *"Sean Heskett" >
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Thursday, August 4, 2016 6:20:09 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] network device
map/wiki/management/database/documentationsystem

Hey guys and gals,
I don't know if something like this already exists so i thought
i'd ask y'all before i went and created it. I basically need a
complete documentation system for our network infrastructure.

-we have our network mapped in visio
-we have our network monitored in intermapper
-we have our network graphed in cacti
-i'm working on creating a wiki type page for all devices that
has some static info (like date put in service, a link to it's
manual) and some dynamic info (like Tx frequency)
-the devices all typically have a web config page

I want to turn our visio maps into HTML so that you can click on
the device and bring up it's wiki page that either links to all
the other pages or includes the info on that wiki page etc.

it seems like this is probably just a custom documentation
database.  When i search on the google there are systems kind of
like this but they seem to be either too narrow minded (geared
towards data center and server infrastructure) or too
broad...nothing seems to be "just right"

does something like this currently exist?  what do you use to
keep track of all this information?  what would you recommend?

Thanks!

-Sean




--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Anyone Installing Cat6 / really thick Cat5e?

[Trey Scarborough]

The only time I have really seen the need is the larger diameter cable 
helps with longer runs of cable especially with POE. As others have said 
though I am starting especially on backhaul to do all fiber. It is 
cheaper easier to weatherproof. If it gets water in the jacket and you 
have it spliced and terminated outside your cabinet then water drains 
out. Plus you don't have to worry about blown router/switch ports anymore.


I prefer the Primus Cable Cat6 they also have connectors that are a 
great deal like UBNT ones and have a special insert that lines the wires 
up to the pins.


Trey

On 8/2/2016 12:25 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Agreed. I'm just using ToughCable until the gear I use starts accepting
SFPs.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Monday, July 25, 2016 12:57:51 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Anyone Installing Cat6 / really thick Cat5e?

Cat6/a has some nice anti-crosstalk features for large trays of cables
(48 port switch or more, hundreds of runs, etc). Can also help with near
end crosstalk. Can also help with POE if you're used to shitty cat5/e
with small gauge wire. Also is good for short 10G runs.

That said, most WISPs aren't in any of those situations, and if you are
and it's possible, fiber is often a much better solution.

TLDR: stick to tough cable or similar


On Jul 25, 2016 12:54 PM, "Christopher Gray" > wrote:

I just picked up some Shireen DC-2021 Cat6 cable, thinking I would
start using Cat6 for my Mimosa installations (as suggested).

It turns out, the individual insulation is too big for any of my
RJ45 ends, and the jacket is also too big. Now, I'm looking at Cat6A
connectors (that have a staggered insert and a full shield). Next, I
will need a new crimper that does not crush the shield on the Cat6A
connector.

Anyhow, it seems like a lot of work to use Cat6 where some
ToughCable and basic shielded RJ45 connectors might be functionally
equivalent.


Should I be seriously considering Cat6? When did you decide Cat6 was
worth it?

-Chris

Re: [AFMUG] 1 pair cat 5

[Trey Scarborough]

Probably will work with cat3

On 8/2/2016 9:38 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

Belden 1588A.

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Chuck McCown > wrote:

I need some cat5 in 1-2 pair only.  Need a physically smaller cable
and only 100 Mbps max.  Anyone ever heard of such a thing?




--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com
 | http://www.packetflux.com

  

Re: [AFMUG] Remote security camera

[Trey Scarborough]

I would not make it so complicated and just get some of the Game cameras 
that do this already...



On 7/27/2016 2:49 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Mikrotik is an excellent choice for an eth/wlan port and VPN, yes.  If
you get network access to the site with whatever device you can just use
a MAP, which is super super light duty and exactly what you need.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Ryan Ray > wrote:

So there's a nice rash of thefts around the area lately and I've had
a few calls now asking for help with security cams at sites. However
these sites are pretty remote. On the fringe of cell service, no
power, no internet and have to be mobile to they can move them to
other sites.

Customers are requesting a picture to their email on motion, the
ability to live view the camera and needs to be all powered via
solar + battery.

I think this can all be accomplished with a cell phone wireless hub,
some unifi video cameras, solar panels, battery and the part I'm
stuck on is the VPN. Seeing as this will be running off battery for
extended periods of time I am needing something that won't suck back
a huge amount of power and can VPN back into my NOC. Not going to be
a huge amount of traffic since it will be running off a 3g cell
network and I've said that live view will be possible but limited as
the data plans are an extreme cost.

My first thought is to use Mikrotik routerboard. I currently don't
use any Mikrotik in my network, typically for VPN's I've been using
an ASA5506 at client sites but I feel that is too expensive and
overkill power wise for something that has the potential to be
vandalized / stolen anyways.

Does Mikrotik sound like the right solution to this and if so I
would need to have the ability for the router to join the cell hub
wireless network and then route the camera traffic back into my
network. What routerboard would accomplish that while being light on
the power suck?

Re: [AFMUG] WiFi for event of "5000" people

[Trey Scarborough]

Another good option is Xirrus they have an AP that holds Quite a few 
radios if it is in a compact enough area.


On 7/27/2016 2:14 PM, David wrote:

We did a 2000 person event for a church using the new Cnpilot hotspot
gear. We had 28 nodes, 4 CTM controllers and a CCR for the gateway used
some QOS at the head end and
at the back end.
�We saw more than 3000 devices connected at one given time not all
were doing anything but it worked out very well.



On 07/27/2016 10:36 AM, Paul McCall wrote:


We have been asked to quote on providing a WiFi system that they think
will have 5000 people at it.� We have done fairs and other outdoor
events, but this one is different.� They are using the same app that
was used at the superbowl with bracelets that are activated through
wifi (changing colors, etc.) , and it also uses phone apps to interact
with the production to some extent (some details not very well defined
ATM).

�

But, the prospect of having 1000 actually connected devices in a very
small area (2 small city blocks) is daunting.� We have a good BH to
the area so overall usage is not as much as a concern as having enough
APs, and the right type of APs, to do the job.� I envision having
said AP devices on several buildings on the block with some form of
distribution BH system.� Of course, the APs will need to be fully
roaming friendly, etc.

�

Equipment suggestions welcome J

�

Paul

�

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800�

pa...@pdmnet.net 

www.pdmnet.com 

www.floridabroadband.com 

�

�

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber....your worst nightmare?

[Trey Scarborough]

I think we all agree for the most part that this is more than likely the 
responsibility of the Contractor that did the work for AT The problem 
I see with this is that AT usually uses contractors and chooses there 
contractors carefully so that they will not have any liability in these 
cases. They so the same thing for tower companies They will hire a 
questionable contractors knowing that they will more than likely due 
crap work, but they are cheap. That contractor has an LLC set up just to 
do the work for AT lets all the complaints pile up and then closes the 
door to the company starts a new one and gets a new contract with AT 
That is the problem I see with this. In situations like this I think 
there is some responsibility on the providers part or whomever owns the 
new utility in place to make certain there contractor has insurance and 
must make sure it is up to date and on file for reporting claims.


On 7/20/2016 8:18 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

This is really an interesting liability question

The liability is pretty much as you described in Montana as well.
Call in a locate.  Wait 2 days.   If you dig and hit something, and it
was marked, it's your fault.  If it wasn't marked, it's the fault of the
owner of the facility.

The case here sounds like a situation where the line probably wasn't
marked, but the line also probably wasn't under the authority of anyone
who was required to be in the 1-call system.  The question being:  If
you're a homeowner, and you weren't notified to mark your lines, and
they hit a line the homeowner owns, who is responsible to fix it?

I agree that the correct answer is the contractor who hit the line.
However, I can definitely see the contractor's viewpoint - if it wasn't
marked then it's hard for them to avoid it.

-forrest

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 2:39 PM, Josh Reynolds > wrote:

I don't think you understand how this works.

AT hires a contractor to install copper/fiber. Contractor needs to
do work somewhere, so they hire the regional locate company to come in
and locate existing utilities. Locate company marks the utilities. If
the contractor hits an unmarked utility, the liability is on the
locate company. If the contractor hits a marked utility, the liability
is on the contractor.

If a homeowner does work in the yard and hits a utility without having
them located, the liability is on the homeowner.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:09 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
> wrote:
> I dont like intervention from the gubment
>
> But these situations are not uncommon, There should be consumer
recourse to
> get made whole in a timely fashion, even if that means
accountability to the
> entity hiring the contractor, as they are there as a
representative of that
> company, at the same time there should be a simplified mechanism
for the
> primary company to recoup the costs associated directly from the
contracting
> company, but the consumer protection and recourse should be a
priority. It
> shouldnt be a hoop jumping fest for the consumer either. Even if
it means
> something as simple as if you have easement access, youre bound to
a 14 day
> compensation window to compensate the consumer, at which point its
up to the
> company to recoup those costs either through a suit against the
contractor,
> or in a suit against the consumer. It shouldnt be the other way
around where
> all burdens fall on the consumer
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:
>>
>> And they should.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett Sent: Wednesday,
July 20,
>> 2016 1:52 PM To: af@afmug.com  ;
af@afmug.com  Subject: Re: [AFMUG]
>> Fiberyour worst nightmare?
>> The drilling company is liable, but AT could pressure them to
take care
>> of it.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" >
>> To: af@afmug.com 
>> Sent: 7/20/2016 2:57:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiberyour worst nightmare?
>>
>>> Drilling company is on the hook.  No question.
>>> I hire contractors all the time.  100% on them when things like this
>>> happen.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Andy Trimmell
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 12:56 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiberyour worst nightmare?
>>>
>>> ATT saying they're not involved is really a crappy way to do
business.
>>> The drilling company worked for them so they should do their due
diligence
>>> and help 

Re: [AFMUG] OT - alternative to VZ voicemail

[Trey Scarborough]

google voice does all the things your wanting.

On 07/14/2016 04:37 PM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] wrote:

I have my cellphone forward busy/unavailable calls to a DID on our VoIP PBX.  
That DID rings my desk phone and goes to my desk Voice Mail which is e-mailed 
to me.

Does that help?

Jim Bouse
Owner
Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
j...@brazoswifi.com

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 4:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT - alternative to VZ voicemail

I have a Motorola RAZR Maxx HD phone and depend heavily on Verizon's "Visual 
Voicemail" (although I'd sure like to increase the 40 message limit).

VZ was sending me these confusing text messages about $2.99 Visual Voicemail 
going away and the replacement Visual Voicemail would be the same but free or 
something, I couldn't decipher what they were trying to tell me.

Well, today my voicemail reverted to standard VM where you have to dial *86 and step 
through the messages one at a time using the voice prompts.  That just won't work for me. 
 After about 10 minutes on hold with VZ customer support, they discovered the alerts 
should have said "our outsourced voicemail vendor will stop supporting your 
device".  So one option would be to buy a new phone.

Anybody have another suggestion?  Is there a third party app in the Google Play 
store that would work with VZ voicemail?  The VZ support rep implied that might 
be the case but VZ wouldn't support it.

Or is there some kind of spiffy third party voicemail service that I could set 
up my phone to forward to when busy or unavailable (a lot of my VZ calls seem 
to go straight to VM without the phone ever ringing)?  With an Android app, and 
maybe lots of cool features and storage for more than 40 messages?

Or am I stuck buying a new phone just to get a working voicemail app?

(Obviously the phone is more than 2 years old, but I won't sign a 2 year 
contract for a phone anymore, if they even do that.  I would end up buying the 
new phone outright, so not talking chump change.)

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Trey Scarborough]

what are you planning on using for the fiber? just laying it on the 
ground as well. I would use liquid tight and pull through some solid 
18awg that would last the longest or some inch and a quarter duct and 
pull both through.


On 7/6/2016 1:38 PM, Jeremy wrote:

Not sure what kind of rodents you have there, but I definitely recommend
conduit and buried.  I have seen conduit not buried through the woods
and it gets squished and broken (if it is PVC) by Moose, deer, etc.  I
have seen direct burial not in conduit eaten by Gophers or Voles or some
crap.  Those kind of jobs are usually the type that you don't want to do
twice.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Chuck McCown > wrote:

Use isolation transformers.  And call it a speaker wire.  You are
sending a loud 60 cycle tone.

*From:* Eric Kuhnke 
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:10 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical
code compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen
trees and rocks isn't going to happen. There is the slight
possibility of electrical inspection based on where the power would
be coming from.

Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can
output 54.5VDC and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things
back to normal 46-48VDC will work.

AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41
DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71



On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince > wrote:

Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...



bp


On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.

*From:* Eric Kuhnke 
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode
fiber is less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees,
trees cannot be cut for various reasons, it's the side of a
bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a few things in one
particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would be
cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude.

With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to
75W of radios on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would
be $4000 of panels batteries enclosure, charge controller.

Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you
might see 2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree
shading.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince
> wrote:

For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would
probably do a small solar setup. What is the latitude?


bp



On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network
link where a PTP radio will go on the side of a tree
on the opposite side of a mountain from where AC
power, a router and other network equipment is located.

We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber
and a small NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the
far side of the hill, containing a SC-SC patch cable
bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.

It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and
voltage drop calculations for 18-2 cable that we can
get away with a 56VDC power supply at the power
source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the
receiving end, which will be fed into a DC-DC
converter to bring the output back up to 52.5VDC for
the radio.

If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors
through a forest, how would you do it? SJOOW type
cable may not hold up over a long enough time. Ideally
something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be
much less flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a
factor.

Re: [AFMUG] best domain registrar?

[Trey Scarborough]

I use namesilo they do dnsec and good pricing as well as free privacy.

On 6/24/2016 2:37 PM, Doug Hass wrote:

We manage our entire domain portfolio (about 250 domains in various
countries, and growing) through OpenSRS.  I've used OpenSRS since
shortly after they started in 1999 without any problems.  Very flexible,
great pricing, easy to manager domains and handle transfers in and out, etc.

Doug

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Sterling Jacobson > wrote:

+1 

__ __

I’ve been using Namecheap for a couple of years and like them.

__ __

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Simon Westlake
*Sent:* Friday, June 24, 2016 1:18 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] best domain registrar?

__ __

I personally like Namecheap.

On 6/24/2016 2:15 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

We have most of our domains registered through Rackspace, they
actually are an Enom registration reseller or something to that
effect, its always been problematic with these guys. Trying to
transfer out a domain today it ends up they have completely
hosed the registrant contact email to show NA, to update the
info the current email address needs to verify the change, if we
attempt to make a change and dont verify within 15 days all our
associated domains become suspended... see the problem? 

__ __

and to top it off, rackspaces enom portal is non functional

__ __

I use google domains for my personal domains, its slick and
supports dynamic DNS so ive been tickled pink with it, but Im
not sure its a prime time registrar as the word beta is present.

__ __

All I know is these rackspace fuckwits have irritated me more on
the domain side than I care to deal with. This should be the
least cumbersome aspect of my job


__ __

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see
your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of
the team.





-- 

Simon Westlake

Skype: Simon_Sonar

Email: simon@sonar.software 

Phone: (702) 447-1247 

---

Sonar Software Inc

The next generation of ISP billing and OSS

https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] 320 with a public IP

[Trey Scarborough]

I wouldn't recommend doing it there are not any known security issues 
that I can speak of. I do know however that your performance on that CPE 
will be go down significantly and I do know outside request can kill 
them. I guess a sort of vulnerability.


On 5/9/2016 11:41 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

All our 320s are in bridge mode. We have a fool customer who is
irritating me though, I need to isolate him from our network so I want
to put it in NAT mode, but I need to have him on a public IP so he can
be identified in complaints. Are there any known vulnerabilities in the
320 CPE I should be aware of? the operator and admin account are
disabled. Telnet and port 80 are enabled on the WAN.

also, how functional is the DMZ, will there end up being complaints that
some game doesnt work?

--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Mobile Data + Wifi in Europe

[Trey Scarborough]

I agree T-mobile is probably the best option. free calls & slow data but 
its enough to get by with. Plus IP calling when you get back to a wifi 
connection.


On 5/6/2016 8:12 AM, Cassidy B. Larson wrote:

I have TMobile here at home and usually go to Europe for a month each
year. TMob gives its users free roaming with free 2G data and free texts
internationally (for most popular destinations). I can pay extra for 3G
data speeds if I want, but the 2G speeds are fine for me with Maps, and
email checkings on the go.  Prior to this option from TMobile I would
get a sim card in each country I visited and load it up with $20 or so.
That got expensive and annoying fast, and if you didn’t get an
“in-country” sim card you’d be roaming and thus eat through your balance
quicker.  That’s why the Tmobile option is great for me, I get to keep
my number and go wherever I want.  I believe it’s 20c/min for calls, but
I normally just skype/facetime once I’m back at the hotel/BnB and using
Wifi for free.



On May 6, 2016, at 6:53 AM, Gino Villarini > wrote:

Friends,

Ill be in Europe traveling during the month of June.  What would be
the best option for mobile data while traveling to UK, France, Italy,
Switzerland, Germany and Spain?

I was thinking a mobile hotspot with roaming of sorts... I dont wish
to swap my phone sim card.

Is there a good Wifi network available? FON?

Re: [AFMUG] OT... drinking in Las Vegas NM

[Trey Scarborough]

FYI he said Las Vegas NM the town with just 3 stop lights not the one 
with all the bright lights...


On 5/5/2016 10:02 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

Are you there for the Winncom show? That looks like it'll be fun.

On May 5, 2016 10:00 PM, "Jaime Solorza" > wrote:

Sacrilege Tecate in a Bud Light glassdon't blame me if
balance of universe is offwife and I wanted to stay in Room 310
of Plaza Hotel but booked solid so we walked around and place made
us dizzyso PBR for her and Tecate fix for mesalud mis
compas!!!  Aju.

Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

[Trey Scarborough]

On the ATT 2wire routers it no longer has an option for bridge. I think 
they wanted to make certain they have access to upgrade them. Instead 
they have a feature called pinhole I believe. Look for it in the 
firewall settings. Basically you tell it the mac you want it to go to 
and it does a proxy arp for the public address you get. So both the 
2wire and your router have the same address on the on the outside, but 
it forwards all the traffic in to the pinhole mac.



On 5/1/2016 11:12 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Is it ADSL, or UVerse?

Back when I did ADSL, I used Zhone 6211/6212, but I think those are
discontinued now.


-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 10:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

I might be able to find them.  I'm not sure I even saw those settings in
the current DSL Router.  It came from AT and just worked.  In the
current DSL World, are things still PPPoE, or since they have a pair of
wires back to the DSLAM, the authenticate you that way?

I was just converting a customer from Frontier that had a Nighthawk
Router.  I didn't pay too much attention to it, but it had a Drop down
box to select your DSL Provider.  I don't remember if it had PPPoE
Settings in it or not.



On 5/1/2016 10:24 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I would get any cheap DSL modem and set it for RFC1483 bridging with
VPI=0 and VCI=35.  Last time I needed one, I found one from Actiontec
at Best Buy or Frys.  The Frys website says they are out of stock at
the Downers Grove store though.

Then set up your router of choice to do PPPoE, I assume you know the
customer's PPPoE credentials.


-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 10:13 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] DSL Router Recommendations

I'm doing work at an office that is fed with AT DSL.  The AT router
is a piece of Garbage.  I can't disable the internal DHCP Server, or do
any IPV4 port forwarding (however, it is handing out IPv6 addresses)  On
the inside of the network, I already have unifi and Managed switches, so
I just need a hardwired DSL router with no Wifi.  Any recommendations
for one?  I'd love to use a Mikrotik, but I don't think they ever came
out with a Routerboard with a DSL Port did they?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Raspberrry pi tease

[Trey Scarborough]

If you are going to use it in a produce the compute module would 
probably be a better choice. It's basically the same interface as an old 
memory stick. You can get them reliably and easier to assemble if you 
are using them in quantity.


On 5/1/2016 1:08 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

So, I thought I would use the Raspberry PI zero as the MCU for a new
project.  Sounds ideal  until you try to get one of the freaking
things then it becomes very obvious that basing any product on this
device would be fatal when it comes time to actually acquire any
quantity of the devices
Arrgh...  Now I am back to the eternal AVR vs PIC war.
I don’t  want to find all my AVR tools and figure out which ones still
work.
I want linux

Re: [AFMUG] PTP820S 2+0 configuration

[Trey Scarborough]

Long as the TX of one radio is not in the RX range of the other radio at 
the same site you should be fine. With the issues you are seeing I would 
recommend turning the power down a little bit -39 may be a little hot 
for you to run a higher modulation without errors. It would probably be 
better a few db less.


On 4/16/2016 10:56 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

I am not familiar with the hardware nor the intricate specifics.. However I 
would make a general statement ..

There are a lot of old wives tales associated with licensed link, there may be 
some context to these old wives tails, most folks in the industry tend to take 
it for face value, very few end up examining it for merit of correctness. 
Comments made by folks in the public forums can be the best or the worst of 
such examples.


From the sounds of it, you have done everything right, and you have the link 
working, then anything else would be an old wives tale.


BTW, if you were able to get 2x80mhz channels in 11ghz, take a look at what 
Mimosa B11's can do with them and yes these folks did challenge the 
accepted status quo  in licensed links..

Regards/

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

- Original Message -

From: "Craig Baird" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2016 11:32:09 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] PTP820S 2+0 configuration



So a few months ago we purchased an 11 GHz PTP820S 2+0 link.  We
recently installed it, and it appears to be working fine, aside from a
little bit of frame loss that we are investigating.  While looking
into this frame loss issue, I stumbled across something that concerns
me.  On Cambium's support forum there is a post that states that when
dealing with 2+0 links both radios must be in the same sub-band.
There is no explanation of why this is the case.  In our situation,
the radios are in separate sub-bands.  When we did the frequency
coordination, the only two 80 MHz channels available were in different
sub-bands.  I passed those channels along to our vendor who worked
with Cambium to get a BOM.  At no point did anyone say that this was a
problem.  So now, fast forward a few months, and I stumble across this
post, and now I'm wondering what the implications will be.  Both links
are up and running.  Signal on both is right where it should be (-39
on one, -40 on the other).  Both are running at maximum modulation.
There are no defective blocks shown on the radio interfaces.  There is
no indication that this sub-band mismatch is causing any issues, aside
from possibly this frame loss thing.  However, if I mute the radios on
one link, the frame loss persists, so I don't think it's related.

In case it matters, the two links are oppositely polarized.  On one
side we've got a 2 foot dish with an OMT combining the radios.  On the
other side, we've got an 8 foot dual-pol dish.

So I'm wondering if anyone knows why Cambium says that you can't use
radios from different sub-bands.  Are we in for trouble at some point?

Craig

Re: [AFMUG] OT: San Diego places to stay in May

[Trey Scarborough]

My pick if you want to be on the beach is the Hotel del Coronado it may 
be pricy, but if you want to stay on the beach it is one of the best, 
and I have been able to find specials before that make it reasonable. My 
second favorite is the Hilton Bayfront It is right next to convention 
center and Parks. Other than that if you want beach I would second the 
Pacific Beach/ La Jolla area.


Trey

On 4/10/2016 11:12 PM, Daniel White wrote:

I’m a fan of anything in the Gaslamp Quarter.  Lots of cool boutique
hotels and lots of shopping/restaurants.  The bay is within walking
distance.

Also the bright side is the convention center and ballpark are within
walking distance.

Also fun to check out http://kcbbq.net/.  But I have not been back since
the fire.

Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies__

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

dwh...@converge-tech.com 

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
*Sent:* Sunday, April 10, 2016 9:28 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: San Diego places to stay in May

http://caprisandiego.com/ is amazing...but it's in the heart of pacific
beach so there's a lot of college kids that go there to party on the
weekends.

La Jolla has a lot of high end places if that's more your thing.  Lots
of boutique shops etc. great beaches.

Coronado island is beautiful and the beaches are some of the best in the
world but it's hard to get to if you are here for work.

Just kinda depends on what part of town you want to be and if it's
strictly vacation or if it's work and fun etc.

Feel free to hit me up off list if you want more info.

-Sean


On Sunday, April 10, 2016, Travis Johnson > wrote:

Hi,

I will be traveling to San Diego in May with my wife... looking for
recommendations of nice places to stay. She would prefer an
ocean-front hotel/condo/villa/house because she loves to walk and
hang out on the beach.

thanks,

Travis



Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: [AFMUG] 10G Wave or Ethernet Pricing

[Trey Scarborough]

If the Fiber is not already in your building you might not see that kind 
of price. This is all dependent on where the closest access point is to 
you. Even if your only 2500 feet from the fiber it could be another 2500 
feet to the closest access point. This could make the cost for the drop 
very high. $2500 is a standard price for on-net to on-net lower if they 
are major datacenters, but if there is any build it will probably be 
higher. I have seen the cost for that last 1/4 mile be 20k up to 600k 
just depends on the area and they will either put it in the NRC or break 
it out over the term.



Trey

On 4/11/2016 12:11 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:

Hey guys,

If we have fiber from 2-3 different providers within 2,500 feet of us,
what is a good price range for 10G pricing for 3-5 year terms? I'm told
I should be seeing $2,500 or less for 10G wave or ethernet transport to
an on-net datacenter within 15 miles of us.

Let me know what you have all been seeing in this respect.

Thanks

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] PPPoE with VLAN on Cambium

[Trey Scarborough]

Yeah that is exactly how I have done it in the past. I do recommend 
upgrading. Vlans and PPOE I found were unreliable up until v12


On 4/6/2016 11:06 PM, George Skorup wrote:

Enable VLAN on the AP, save and reboot. Set Default Port VID to the
desired VLAN ID# on the SM(s), save and reboot. That should put the
PPPoE/NAT interface on that VID. I haven't messed with NAT and VLANs on
Canopy though.

The AP with VLAN enabled basically becomes a VLAN trunking device. So
you need to handle that on your switch or router. Switchport mode trunk,
encapsulation dot1q, etc. MikroTik... add VLAN sub-interfaces.

Oh, and 11.2, so this is PMP100? I would strongly advise you to get up
to 13.4.1. I've been running it for about a month on a couple sites and
two weeks on the rest of the FSK network and it has been stable. I think
I might have lost the additional color codes on some SMs, but really no
more issues than that.

On 4/6/2016 9:50 PM, heith wrote:


Hello,

�

I need some configuration help on Cambium. We are wanting to configure
the Canopy subscriber module (v11.2) to be the PPPoE client and NAT
the customer's traffic from the Ethernet port. This works fine, of
course, but we need the PPPoE to be on a tagged VLAN and we're. Not
quite sure how to configure the VLANs in the AP and the SM so the SM
will use the tagged VLAN for the PPPoE. Anyone done this?

�

Thanks

Heith

Celerity Broadband

Re: [AFMUG] OpenFlow and SDN

[Trey Scarborough]

I have tested it in a lab environment and used several different 
controllers. I agree it seems to be great for a data center and possible 
as a Metro switching environment. I have been trying it agains other 
carrier mpls/mef hardware. It really can't match the switching times and 
resiliency that current hardware and standard deployment. The main 
problem becomes the latency between the controller and the device. They 
have some tricks to make fast fail over sub 50ms switches operate as 
efficiently as the current offerings of most vendors mpls. Give it a few 
years though and I am sure that it will be a new story. The management 
and human error elimination will be worth it for most carriers.



On 3/8/2016 6:52 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

I’m hearing the opposite, great in the core, not as necessary on fringes.

I’ve got friends migrating core data center switches and routers to
OpenFlow.

So the hardware concentrates on the actual packet flows only (Data
layer) and let’s a controller define the complicated stuff across
multiple devices.

I’m thinking it could be useful for fiber providers running multiple
network segments selling capacity with less complication and hard coding.

I’m already spanning my small fiber network with several services and
tunnels for other providers.

Static entry tables for loopbacks and VPLS paths are becoming cumbersome
already.

Maybe this stuff will help a bit with that?

Not sure.

Maybe it’s still too fringe.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 8, 2016 5:47 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OpenFlow and SDN

 From what I've read it is better for places where you need to manage
flows and not so much in the core, mainly due to whatever is hardware
accelerated.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







*From: *"Sterling Jacobson" >
*To: *"af@afmug.com " >
*Sent: *Tuesday, March 8, 2016 6:28:47 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] OpenFlow and SDN

Anyone implemented OpenFlow in anything?

What are the advantages to an ISP?

I just bought a switch with OpenFlow capabilities to play with.

Not sure what I'm doing, lol!

Re: [AFMUG] 0 build DF 500k NRC?

[Trey Scarborough]

In California not to crazy. just depends on where it is. if its in rock 
or an urban area It could have cost a pretty penny to build. It as well 
could be on low strand count fiber so you have to eat more of the cost. 
I have seen a build in an urban environment be 500k a km. Its more 
likely though that they just want you to go away. I have seen some 
quotes for 100k just to put in 3 splice tails on an existing IRU. 
Sometimes it has to do with permitting. One of them happened to be on 
railroad property



On 3/7/2016 6:23 PM, TJ Trout wrote:

They want $4k monthly "O" with a 500k "20 year IRU"

Don't really understand this

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Eric Kuhnke > wrote:

500k NRC is them saying to you "go away and stop bothering us any
further".



On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:33 PM, TJ Trout > wrote:

Local lec quoted me 4k mrc for 2 strands DF with a 500k NRC but
no build is involved?  Is this legit?

Re: [AFMUG] 100Gbps

[Trey Scarborough]

For your first question Price wise you would be surprised they don't 
sell for a great deal more than a 10G. Low end 12k a month high 30k 
those are the current going rates for them. The low end would be what 
you see between major datacenters. when you get to the higher cost would 
be rural and the main driving factor for that now still is just the 
actual fiber construction not the equipment.


How to get it depends of course what you are selling them. As it has 
been pointed out if you are doing internet that will require a 
significant router and then in return large peering and upstream 
connections etc. As far as the transport there are several ways to go 
about it all depends on distance. Today there really are not too many 
vendors that have equipment that will do 100G at any distance above 10k 
in a SFP or in 100G CFP/QSFP.


If you are going any distance more than likely be looking at a DWDM 
system of some type. The lowest cost could be using a CFP LR10 which is 
basically a  10x10G. It will break it out in to 10 10G DWDM channels 
that you can put in to a DWDM filter and then to an EDFA amp.


The other option is there are some vendors that make a DWDM capable 100G 
transponder. These use modulation like QPSK to get thee 100G over one 
DWDM channel. You can get these pretty reasonable if you are looking at 
total transport distance less than 300k. Some good vendors are ciena, 
Ekinops, RAD/Packetlight. Ciena of course is the priciest


If you need more information feel free to hit me up. I spend most my 
days now turning up these types of systems.



On 2/5/2016 5:56 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:

The catch is that you can find switches that do 100Gbps sure but then
you still need a router to provide them Internet ;)  Currently using
Nexus 7K for this but if I was shopping again I’d use Juniper QFX5200 or
QFX1 .. we use some QFX5100 today and really like them for
reliability and features (datacenter)

Longest optics I have seen are 40KM, but there may be longer available –
all of our 100Gbps connections are SR and LR so never given it much
thought….

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sterling Jacobson
*Sent:* Friday, February 5, 2016 1:13 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 100Gbps

Yeah, was looking at those.

I don’t have anything in that will handle those optics.

I can do QSFP+ 40km optics times two for 80Gbps for fairly cheap.

But one leg is longer than that, though I may be able to break it up
into two segments.

How much is a switch that can handle two 100Gbps ports?

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Thursday, February 4, 2016 11:02 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 100Gbps

http://www.fs.com/c/100g-transceivers_1159

On Feb 5, 2016 12:01 AM, "Sterling Jacobson" > wrote:

So... Let's just say, for a minute, that I could sell Adobe a
100Gbps line.

What would that be priced at?

I think I can do it technically with a pair of fiber I can get end
to end.

Are their LD optics at 100Gbps yet?

Or are we still talking dense wave multiplexing?

Re: [AFMUG] 100Gbps

[Trey Scarborough]

I saw a quote for a vendor you wouldn't expect for a router that does 
100G for less than that new.


it was surprisingly Alcatel a router with 2x100G and 10x10G and 10x1G 
line cards for right under 100k I was pretty shocked


On 2/5/2016 3:25 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

care to give some specific's in pricing and models of routers that can
do 100G routing and cost less than $100k ?

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net



*From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Friday, February 5, 2016 10:03:36 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 100Gbps

Less than $100k. The chassis, enhanced scbs and high end routing
engines are fairly cheap. 100Gbps line cards are in demand and very
hard to find, as there's no real upgrade from there.

10Gbps is cheap and has been replaced by 40/100Gbps gear, so there
is plentiful equipment on the great market.

On Feb 5, 2016 8:57 AM, "Faisal Imtiaz" > wrote:

It's not un-common to do 100Gpbs as follows:-
Bonding 10x 10G circuits
Bonding a combination of 40G circuits.

providing 100G switched transport is easy.
Having a router, to do 100G transport is not,
Expect to pay approx $100k for a router (loaded ready to go, on
the 2ndary markets)

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email:
supp...@snappytelecom.net

- Original Message -
 > From: "Sterling Jacobson" >
 > To: "af@afmug.com " >
 > Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 1:01:09 AM
 > Subject: [AFMUG] 100Gbps

 > So... Let's just say, for a minute, that I could sell Adobe a
100Gbps line.
 >
 > What would that be priced at?
 >
 > I think I can do it technically with a pair of fiber I can
get end to end.
 >
 > Are their LD optics at 100Gbps yet?
 >
 > Or are we still talking dense wave multiplexing?

Re: [AFMUG] Great, now Netflix customers are calling ME for blocked Netflix

[Trey Scarborough]

I may be dumb, but wouldn't these people have to be paying somehow? If 
so why do they not just block it based on the customers billing address 
of the credit card on file? I have not actually had a netflix 
subscription in a while, but I was almost certain you had to pay with a 
credit card or paypal and unless they have gone to accepting bitcoin I 
would think that would be the easiest solution.


On 1/20/2016 6:40 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:

Not sure how this would be a routing issue?  If his customer’s were
having connectivity issues I could see that…

Netflix is under considerable pressure lately to block foreign VPN’s
from accessing US content.  I don’t recall the exact number but I think
it’s around an estimate of 500k Canadian’s using VPN or other tech to
access the US version of Netflix ;)

Americans shop online in Canada for pharmacy drugs – Canadians shop
around for US content on Netflix .. I think it’s a fair trade haha

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Faisal Imtiaz
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 19, 2016 9:09 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Great, now Netflix customers are calling ME for
blocked Netflix

You just turned up another bgp session with a new service provider ?
Upstream ?

Most likely there is a routing issue...incoming traffic one way and
outgoing in a different route..and one of them with possible issue..

Regards

Faisal

Sent from Mobile Device

 Original message 

From: Sterling Jacobson

Date:01/19/2016 8:56 PM (GMT-05:00)

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Great, now Netflix customers are calling ME for
blocked Netflix

Except that I’m not on VPN or proxy.

So they have wrongly allocated or listed my blocks as proxy/VPN.

Doesn’t that break net neutrality for me?

Not that the FCC is going to do anything about it.

I just got off the phone. They asked me to email them my ASN, upstream
and details.

Hopefully they pull their heads out and get this working.

Not like I can request a IPv4 block directly from ARIN.

I DID that and they denied saying they have no more.

So I’m stuck without their help.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *timothy steele
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 19, 2016 6:48 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Great, now Netflix customers are calling ME for
blocked Netflix

Netflix is working on banning all proxy and most VPN users was on
Engadget over a month ago there content providers are forcing  them so
when there telling you nothing they can do to help there telling the truth

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 8:37 PM Josh Reynolds > wrote:

Also reach out to Netflix on twitter, tell them you are a US ISP and
your users are having issues watching content

On Jan 19, 2016 7:25 PM, "Josh Luthman" > wrote:

Try NANOG?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Jan 19, 2016 8:23 PM, "Sterling Jacobson"
> wrote:

Anyone else start getting these calls today?

My personal Netflix, on the same public IP block, seems to
still work.

But several of my customers are now calling in saying their
Netflix is VPN, Proxy or using an Unblocker.

Netflix is denying any sort of fix or solution for these
customers, blaming it on the ISP.

I'm sick of this crap.

The customers don't care, they will just drop the ISP and
get another, probably with IP blocks that aren't
'blacklisted' as VPN, or going through a datacenter.

I had the same problem with Hulu, Vudu, ABC.com Disney.com
and several others.

Fortunately, all of those companies, except Vudu, fixed my
problem by whitelisting my IPs.

Vudu took a long time but I think I finally got a hold of
the correct team of engineers and they fixed it.

On the phone now with Netflix rep and one of her first
questions was, "What is a public IP block?"

:(

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Trey Scarborough]

On 1/4/2016 9:42 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing
any content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on
the computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would
be able to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting
what they want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s
queue on their connection during the overnight hours.  Other options?





I would tell them to have a good discussion with their Son

Beyond that it will prove to be very difficult without blocking all vpn 
traffic as well. Basically just allow port 80 through from the offenders 
computer and put it through a content filter. If they are smart they 
will even find a way around Net Nanny or some similar application 
installed on the computer/device.

Re: [AFMUG] Long haul SFP for mikrotik

[Trey Scarborough]

Just buy two different channels of 
http://www.fs.com/1gbps-cwdm-sfp-160km-transceiver-p-36996.html


and a 2 channel filter 
http://www.fs.com/2-channels-type-a-1ru-rack-mount-simplex-bidi-transmission-cwdm-mux-demux-p-30428.html


On 12/28/2015 9:01 PM, Steve Utick wrote:
FiberStore (fs.com ) does have some Long Haul BIDI 
SFP's, but only out to 120km, not 160.



On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Bill Prince > wrote:


No, but if we did, we would double our capacity.

bp


On 12/28/2015 6:04 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


Do you use a lot of BIDI SFPs?

On Dec 28, 2015 7:34 PM, "Bill Prince" > wrote:

Nice. Way less than $∞too.

Wonder if you could get it BIDI?

bp


On 12/28/2015 4:42 PM, Keefe John wrote:

http://www.fs.com/1-25gbps-sfp-1550nm-160km-dom-transceiver-p-37618.html



On 12/28/2015 6:00 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If I need a 160km / 37.0db SFP that's compatible with a
Mikrotik and doesn't cost infinity dollars, what do you
suggest?

Re: [AFMUG] Bad day?

[Trey Scarborough]

On 5/13/2015 3:12 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Having a bad day? You could be the owner of that conduit.

No it isn't that bad there is no cable in it just a pull string...




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com

Re: [AFMUG] -48 PDU suggestions

[Trey Scarborough]

On 8/18/2015 1:51 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I like the packetflux PDU, but I need to switch -48 loads.  Does 
anybody have any suggestions?


Forrest.if you make it I will buy it.




Try ICT if you want remote meter and switching capabilities.

These are the ones I have been using.

Re: [AFMUG] 3 days to Internet crash?

[Trey Scarborough]

The problem really isn't things like servers crashing, but more so stuff 
like banking and credit card processing anything that requires an 
accurate time stamp to be processed.


On 06/28/2015 11:56 AM, Glen Waldrop wrote:

I'm failing to see where this is a big deal.

Synchronize with an NTP server, add a second to the NTP server.

Sit back, have a pint and wait for this whole thing to blow over.


- Original Message - From: Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 7:38 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] 3 days to Internet crash?




Oh no, another leap second.  Will it mess up the Internet like in 2012?

http://time.com/3666522/leap-second/

Re: [AFMUG] WTF UBNT

[Trey Scarborough]

You  can run at the higher Modulation types with TKIP this is not a UBNT 
only thing most 802.11 hardware requires you to have AES to get them.


On 6/2/2015 9:48 AM, Jeremy wrote:
The newer production firmwares don't allow it either. WPA2-AES 
offloads the encryption to a dedicated processor or something like 
that, so it does not affect the performance of the radio.  It seems 
like that is what I read. We use it on all of our links anyway so it 
wasn't a change for us.


On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Colin Stanners cstann...@gmail.com 
mailto:cstann...@gmail.com wrote:


Downgrade firmware, or I'm pretty sure you need to drive to the
other end (or use a backup link) to change it.

Don't use beta firmware on production links... (I understand using
beta firmware is often required to get the cheap Ubiquiti
equipment working well, but that's another discussion).

On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 9:14 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:

does anybody know a trick to get a radio set to client that is
using wpa2-tkip to connect to this AP that will only do none,
wpa-aes and wpa2-aes. I dont know why the link was set up
tkip, but apparently this beta firmware wont let you use it

On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 8:58 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
wrote:

Please select a valid Wireless Security. Weak wireless
security (WEP, WPA-TKIP, WPA2-TKIP) is not supported any
more

nice thing to have pop up on a production backhaul that
just powercycled. im assuming the link didnt come back up
on this old link because its not transmitting?

-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but

you don't see your team as part of yourself you
have already failed as part of the team.




-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see

your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part
of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Powercode Announcement

[Trey Scarborough]

NIce! I needed to laugh.  Just make sure to drink plenty of toilet water \.

On 5/28/2015 9:29 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

It's got what plants crave!!!


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 10:28 AM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com wrote:


He said minor, not miner.
As in it’s illegal to serve Powercode to a minor.
Your miner looks small but not underage.  Hi ho, hi ho, it’s off
to work we go.  And why does “Powercode” sound like an energy
drink for programmers?
*From:* Simon Westlake mailto:simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com
*Sent:* Thursday, May 28, 2015 9:06 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Powercode Announcement
It's for measuring coal.

On 5/28/2015 9:05 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

That picture is an oxymoron.
A Miner with a slide rule  ??
Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet  Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 tel:305%20663%205518%20x%20232
Help-desk: (305)663-5518 tel:%28305%29663-5518 Option 2 or
Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net


*From: *Simon Westlake
mailto:simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com

*To: *af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Thursday, May 28, 2015 10:03:02 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Powercode Announcement
That's a miner

On 5/28/2015 9:02 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

???

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 tel:937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343 tel:937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On May 28, 2015 9:57 AM, Simon Westlake
simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com
mailto:simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com wrote:



On 5/27/2015 6:57 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

�
i am not sure i'd call these changes minor...
�

- Original Message -
*From:* James Bertram (Powercode)
mailto:li...@powercode.com
*To:* af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com ;
memb...@wispa.org mailto:memb...@wispa.org
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2015 4:42 PM
*Subject:* [WISPA Members] Powercode Announcement
Wisp Community,
�
I just wanted to send out an email
representing Powercode, myself, and the
entire team behind Powercode.
�
Neither Powercode nor Bertram Wireless were
sold, we are all still here and going strong.�
�
Powercode is in wonderful hands with strong
intuitive team in developing code, timely
resolutions, and increasing the general user
experience as a whole. There is an entire
team of Strong Developers, Support Staff, and
Graphic Designers.
�
Our development and support staff has had
some minor structural changes. To better suit
our customer's needs, we have hired some new
staff members and are looking to add more
staff. Many customers may have already
noticed a decreased turnaround time to their
support calls and trouble tickets.�
�
We understand how critical Powercode is to
our users and their network and want to
assure you we are here to help and are moving
forward with the product. Our WISP Bertram
Wireless, one of the largest in the region,
relies on Powercode in the same way our
customers rely on Powercode. We understand
the direction we need to take with Powercode
to make it benefit your business now and for
the future. When Powercode was failing back
in 2009, I made the executive decision to
purchase Powercode because my Company was so
deeply integrated with Powercode that the
only option in our eyes was to acquire the
company and turn the software around for the
better.
 

Re: [AFMUG] Campground WIFI

[Trey Scarborough]

I would check out GoNet If you really want to get a large coverage. They 
are probably on the scale of a ruckus unit, but actually do beamforming 
and are specifically made for outdoor access. It is pretty pricy per 
unit , but they tend to cover a much greater area and are not as 
susceptible to noise.


http://www.gonetworks.com/


On 5/26/2015 8:38 PM, Craig House wrote:
I agree I am looking more for coverage than capacity.  I think most of 
the campers would be happy just to check and reply to email or be able 
to upload their float trip and camping pics to FB.  I can envision 
though rainy days where the kids are board and want to stream Netflix. 
 So I am thinking offering a basic email checking sort of speed for a 
very basic price and then a Netflix / streaming package at a higher 
price.  I dont want to do it by the hour because they will eat up my 
fees with credit card charges and processing fees.  I am thinking a 
daily rate and a weekend rate or even a weekly rate for each package. 
Maybe there are campers that come every weekend or a couple of times a 
month and I could offer a seasonal rate even.  But I guess I am mainly 
wanting to know about equipment.  M2 with a 120 sector?  What kind of 
number of subs per M2 Rocket is reasonable for the AP to handle well? 
 What about M2 AC Rocket?


Craig



*From: *Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Tuesday, May 26, 2015 8:27:29 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Campground WIFI

I’m looking at a permanent installation at a small county 
park/campground where we did a temporary setup last year.
Am I crazy for looking at the UAP-Outdoor+ (2.4 only) linked with M5 
Locos?  I’m not sure the more expensive AC units will help anything, 
coverage is more important than raw capacity.

*From:* Jaime Solorza mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 26, 2015 7:48 PM
*To:* Animal Farm mailto:af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Campground WIFI

Our local rez replaced all their Cisco gear and controllers with 
Ubiquiti AC Dual Band UniFi and software.   Speeds and performance 
much better and easy to manage.  The casino waitresses love the pos at 
customers tables and security knows where they are at all times.  Used 
at both Speaking Rock and Socorro Entertainment Center..I installed 
two AC UniFi APs months ago for cattle association.  Not one 
call...ave 75 to 150 users a day


Jaime Solorza

On May 26, 2015 5:17 PM, Craig House cr...@totalhighspeed.net 
mailto:cr...@totalhighspeed.net wrote:


Got a 110' tower that belongs to a large campground that we are
using as a tower site.  Using Mimosa links to the tower and have
500+ MB of bandwidth available to this tower.  The campground area
is about 110 acres and about 1/2 of that has camp sites that we
want to be able to provide paid by the X WIFI service.  UBNT has a
billing platform that I think integrates with their equipment and
I will gladly use their equipment but I dont want to recreate the
wheel here.  This is not in my normal course of business but the
campground owner wants it and I think there is a lot of potential
here all be it seasonally.Is the UBNT software good stuff?
What are your recommendations to type of AP's / Antennas / for
such a setup.   What is the best way to market this type of
service?  Free for basic minimal speeds? then sell a higher rate
if they want it.  Or Just bill for anything one lower package and
one higher package?  Has anyone on the list tried this at a
campground and if so what mistakes did you make and what did you
end up using?   Ive made enough mistakes in the past with other
stuff.  I have learned to ask you guys on stuff I'm not familiar
with .

Craig

Re: [AFMUG] mt ospf question

[Trey Scarborough]

This argument has come up several times and In most cases it is a matter 
of preference. It does actually make a difference in how these routes 
are treated. For 90% or more of the people it will not make a difference 
and you choose your preference. Some like to use the networks statement 
as an ACL of sorts, but that is not its intended role. Truly how OSPF 
was desinged  the networks are the actual interfaces that belong on the 
OSPF routing network that is why they are announced by default if they 
are included. On most networks especial if your using a software based 
routing like Mikrotik or hardware ASIC based systems like Brocade. If 
you are using Mikrotik and only have an area 0 then you will never see 
any issues either way. You are probably not worried about sub 50ms 
rerouting and other such features that this can change how routing 
behaves. If you redistribute networks those specific addresses belong in 
a different place for OSPF than when it is added to the networks. When 
added to the networks it becomes part of the link state database as 
well. which won't make any difference unless it is either a very large 
amount of routes or you have a very large network. Routes that are 
redistributed are not part of the link state database. They are also 
treated differently when it comes to routing decisions. This can have a 
negative repercussions if you are distributing a great deal of routes 
especially if using some hardware based routing platforms. On the other 
hand if you want the addresses to be quicker if that interface goes down 
then you would want to add it to the networks. I am talking about very 
insignificant differences and very on routing platforms to the point 
that it really won't matter for most people.


Me personally I prefer to redistribute both static and connected routes 
and use very strict route filtering because it allows for much more 
control. For example I filter out all the /32 networks that get assigned 
for PPP and actually only allow the pool assigned to that router and a 
range for the statics so that all other addresses won't be 
redistributed. This also carries over easily to BGP.  On the other hand 
I set up ospf using networks for a great deal of my clients because it 
is easier to maintain and understand what is being routed.


On 05/21/2015 05:34 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:


Oh I agree, if it works for you fine.  Just giving you the example of 
why as you grow your knowledge and experience, you typically do it 
this way. Jno worries!


Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc.

den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – 
www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2015 2:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mt ospf question

That’s right.  I’d better request an advisory ruling.

*From:*George Skorup mailto:geo...@cbcast.com

*Sent:*Thursday, May 21, 2015 12:45 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] mt ospf question

Easily negated with a routing filter on the OSPF-out chain. We can all 
argue this all day long. Nobody is wrong. Run your network how you 
want.. until the FCC starts dictating routing config too. :|


On 5/21/2015 12:39 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

You have tech ports on your routers, say, 10.199.199.1/24 on each
site.   That is a private block that you NAT at each site just for
your on-site tech to use if needed.. now, the issue, all of your
routers are advertising and basically arguing who has
10.199.199.0/24 !

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP vs Ubiquiti AC

[Trey Scarborough]

You would if you have 70-100 subs per AP

Yeah I know your not supposed to do that...

So far for most of the  networks I have seen with epmp/ubnt vs pmp over 
3-4 years TCO is about the same. This however depends on your 
deployment. Ubnt/epmp are significantly less expensive in some 
situations and actually pmp can be the least costing in some as well. It 
all depends on your situation.  If you have free space on strictures 
that don't require a tower crew to deploy and rent is low per AP then 
the cost savings with UBNT/epmp is great. If you are paying for tower 
crews and $3500 a year per sector then pmp may be a better solution.


The other situation I think most people don't consider is that something 
that cost more is worth more. Not necessarily in actual usefull value 
but in truly monetary sense. How many people actually RMA a nanostation? 
Not very many it goes in the trash becasue it isn't worth my time to go 
through the process. Therefor there is not a large market for 
re-manufactured or used equipment. Therefor resell value isn't very 
good. Bad resell value makes it harder to get leases and loans on the 
equipment in some situations. As well as for some companies it shows up 
on the books better. It can be a detriment as well if you have to pay 
property taxes on it though.


It all depends on your market and installation requirements different 
products for different needs.


On 05/15/2015 09:15 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
I don't know whether there's a significant advantage to PMP over ePMP 
for residential applictions (since I've never used PMP450), but 
knowing what is possible with ePMP and UBNT, I don't see how PMP could 
ever generate enough additional revenue to pay for itself in our market.


On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 9:09 PM, Mike Hammett af...@ics-il.net 
mailto:af...@ics-il.net wrote:


I don't consider there to be a significant advantage to PMP over
the ePMP for residential applications.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


*From: *Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com
*To: *af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Friday, May 15, 2015 8:41:03 PM

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] ePMP vs Ubiquiti AC

I've always considered mbps to be among the least important
concerns on PTMP, well below packet loss, jitter, QoS features,
manageability, consistency, and reliability. Which is why I'm not
super keen on *any* of the wifi stuff.  This seems is like an
argument about whether a Pinto is better than a Fiesta.
/smug

One could say I can sync but I can only get 60 Mbps per sub (*)

Another person could say I can't sync but I can get 200+ Mbps
per sub (*)

(*) under the right conditions

Your market and deployment strats will dictate which is more
important.

Josh Reynolds
CIO, SPITwSPOTS
www.spitwspots.com  http://www.spitwspots.com

On 05/15/2015 04:56 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:

But no sync.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Peter Kranz
*Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2015 3:12 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP vs Ubiquiti AC

AC blows doors on ePMP

*Peter Kranz
*www.UnwiredLtd.com http://www.unwiredltd.com/
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 tel:510-868-1614%20x100
Mobile: 510-207- tel:510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Jason McKemie
*Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2015 11:21 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] ePMP vs Ubiquiti AC

I know this isn't an apples to apples comparison, but what
are other's thoughts on these two products?  I'm looking
at 5GHz, and I know the AC gear doesn't have the lower
5GHz bands - hopefully they will in the near future.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Small Batteries

[Trey Scarborough]

I would check with your local security system company they buy these 
things in bulk. They can let you know the best place to purchase them 
from some may be willing to add some to there order for you. The thing 
with any batteries like this is the shipping. Whoever has a local 
supplier will usually be the best priced. I have talked to some of the 
security guys in the past and they were getting batteries that cost me 
$35-70 at $15-25.


On 05/07/2015 07:37 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Do you guys have any guidance when looking for small batteries? I 
liked the FIAMM 12SLA12 due to being 12v 12 aH and only about 3 
thick. That makes it easier to get into a small box at a repeater 
site. Howveer, that size seems rare among manufacturers and it appears 
that Fiamm has discontinued it.


http://www.interstatebatteries.com/powercare/stationary/pdf/SLA_Monolite_VRLA_Tel.pdf


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

https://www.facebook.com/ICSILhttps://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalbhttps://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutionshttps://twitter.com/ICSIL

Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com

https://www.facebook.com/mdwestixhttps://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchangehttps://twitter.com/mdwestix

Re: [AFMUG] Amazon EC2

[Trey Scarborough]

It could be a cloud backup program there are several out there that use 
amazon ec2 and S3 for there storage.


On 4/13/2015 12:22 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


I was trouble shooting a problem on a connection this morning, and 
found that the client had three streams running to EC2 in the Amazon 
AWS cloud. It has been running for months, at a more-or-less constant 
upstream rate of about 300 Kbps per stream (all three streams together 
are less than 1 Mbps, but they are all constant, running 24x7 for at 
least the last 8 months).


Is this a hijack of some sort? This particular customer is not 
sophisticated, and I can not imagine what sort of compute resource he 
might require. He barely knows how to boot up his computer.