[AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
You only need a handhole when you need a splice case. Otherwise you can go for as long as your roll of fiber or duct will last. I like at least 100 feet of slack or more. That will give you 50 up and 50 down from the splice trailer. More is better. 200 feet is probably as much as you would ever need unless the splice trailer needs to be a long way away from the hole. If you are in duct and if you plowed in the duct, then you can put warning tape a foot or two above the duct. Then drive some fiber markers ever few hundred feet too. Assuming you participate in the underground locating service in your part of the world, backhoe fades will be rare. Perhaps 1 per year or less on plant built like this. I know stretches that have been in the ground 10 years without any molestation. Don’t direct bury fiber. Critters will eat into it. If you need 48 strands put in 96 strand fiber. You will regret going cheap at any stage of the game. Make sure the fiber has a metallic element (shield or wire) so you can find it later. From: That One Guy /sarcasm Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:04 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Hmmm, blanket ROW for all of the US of A now? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Yep. From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:09 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Hmmm, blanket ROW for all of the US of A now? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Nope From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Nope From: Sterling Jacobson<mailto:sterl...@avative.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
They walk into the planning department and ask to be put on the list. ryan On 6/30/15 10:30 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote: How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Nope *From:*Sterling Jacobson <mailto:sterl...@avative.net> *Sent:*Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM *To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. *From:*Adam Moffett <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> *Sent:*Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM *To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. -- D. Ryan Spott | NGC457, llc broadband | telco | colo | communities PO Box 1734 Sultan, WA 98294 425-939-0047
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
I’ve done that and they city says NO. As a small time developer myself, I guess it’s private land until the plat records (and the ROW with it). Some developers around here have very large ego’s and would still rather I go in a month or two later and rip it all up or bore the hell out of it again, than let me put conduit in their open utility trench in the first place. It’s really baffling and frustrating. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:35 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country They walk into the planning department and ask to be put on the list. ryan On 6/30/15 10:30 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote: How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Nope From: Sterling Jacobson<mailto:sterl...@avative.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. -- D. Ryan Spott | NGC457, llc broadband | telco | colo | communities PO Box 1734 Sultan, WA 98294 425-939-0047
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Comcast does not unless it is the ILEC. Century Link is normally the ILEC. From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:30 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Nope From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
You can certainly try that. But around here, the public utilities that have been given the turf by the state are the only ones that the city requires to sign the plat. Gas, phone, electric. The city provides sewer and water. So three companies have to sign off on all new subdivisions. From: D. Ryan Spott Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:35 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country They walk into the planning department and ask to be put on the list. ryan On 6/30/15 10:30 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote: How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Nope From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. -- D. Ryan Spott | NGC457, llc broadband | telco | colo | communities PO Box 1734 Sultan, WA 98294 425-939-0047
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
They are on every Mylar sheet signoff in my city. I don’t think they have ILEC status here. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:40 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Comcast does not unless it is the ILEC. Century Link is normally the ILEC. From: Sterling Jacobson<mailto:sterl...@avative.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:30 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Nope From: Sterling Jacobson<mailto:sterl...@avative.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
If comcast is on the sheet you should be too. You are peers with them in the eyes of internet regulation. CATV does have its own set of FCC rules and regs but they were never classified as a public utility. Not sure why a developer would be required to have them sign the plat. Something to complain about I would think. You should be treated equal to them. From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:42 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country They are on every Mylar sheet signoff in my city. I don’t think they have ILEC status here. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:40 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Comcast does not unless it is the ILEC. Century Link is normally the ILEC. From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:30 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Nope From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
If there are no poles, does ROW give privilege to put them in? I assume that would get costly. Im probably wrong here, but I dont like poles of the wood kind, our drunks in our rural areas are masters at taking out more than one per DUI, we have champion drunks here. And I dee them snapped alot in the winter time. I wouldnt consider anything direct buried. Would you put handholes in at intersections where you would be making a turn? Do farmers do JULIE (thats our locating program in this area) before they tile? I assume not since they take ROW to farm, a little each year (we had a project go through a couple years ago where a farmer has a few miles of corn about 10 feet wide dug out for being in the ROW, I loved it, cheating tax subsidized prick) On average, for plowed or trenched duct, permitting costs aside, what is the cost per mile to run fiber (duct and fiber I assume are the only infrastructure costs exclusing the treminations and hardware on each end) On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote: > How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country > > > > Nope > > > > *From:* Sterling Jacobson > > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country > > > > Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put > conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Chuck McCown > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country > > > > Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from > the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered > a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. > > > > *From:* Adam Moffett > > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM > > *To:* af@afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country > > > > The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you > can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose > tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have > been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. > > Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole > attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can > point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of > official. > > On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: > > Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. > > Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? > > > > I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. > > > > Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking > for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. > > > > What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can > expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm > related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no > actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage > answers) > > > > -- > > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team > as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. > > > -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Yes, you can put in poles. No, I don’t put handholes anywhere I don’t need to. That normally means splice cases. If you can see a place where you may want to branch off in the future, yes put in a handhole and some slack. No, farmers do not do JULIE. So you hit their irrigation lines or their water or sewer, you fix it. If you ruin a farmer’s crop, normally you pay for that too. I don’t think ROWs give you surface rights. You can still farm the land. And whoever is under you has to compensate you for losses. Costs depend on installation technology. Plowed, assuming you own the plow, you can be in the $2/foot range. Bored you will be in the $20/foot range. Rock will be more. From: That One Guy /sarcasm Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:47 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country If there are no poles, does ROW give privilege to put them in? I assume that would get costly. Im probably wrong here, but I dont like poles of the wood kind, our drunks in our rural areas are masters at taking out more than one per DUI, we have champion drunks here. And I dee them snapped alot in the winter time. I wouldnt consider anything direct buried. Would you put handholes in at intersections where you would be making a turn? Do farmers do JULIE (thats our locating program in this area) before they tile? I assume not since they take ROW to farm, a little each year (we had a project go through a couple years ago where a farmer has a few miles of corn about 10 feet wide dug out for being in the ROW, I loved it, cheating tax subsidized prick) On average, for plowed or trenched duct, permitting costs aside, what is the cost per mile to run fiber (duct and fiber I assume are the only infrastructure costs exclusing the treminations and hardware on each end) On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote: How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Nope From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Force the issue. Call the planner Kimber and speak to her. Failing
agreement there followup with an email and postal mail. This will force
the issue to public record.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Kimber Gabryszak, Planning Director:
I am the Owner and Manager at Avative Fiber. We have been providing BIAS
services in the community for several years. I recently noted that my
company is not listed as a required sign-off on the planning
department's Utility Notification Form.
Per the recent FCC Decision 15-24, my company is a BIAS provider. Please
include Avative Fiber on your Utility Notification Form.
Please contact me should you have any questions.
Thank you for your assistance,
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
* Example URL, page 2:
<http://www.saratogaspringscity.com/vertical/sites/%7B78CE255C-3864-45FC-AA11-6125792DB3E4%7D/uploads/Plat_Amendment_Application_Rev._3.2014.pdf>
The right of way is public and NON-Exclusive. If provider A is in there
then provider B with like services should be allowed in there.
Good luck!
ryan
On 6/30/15 10:39 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
I’ve done that and they city says NO.
As a small time developer myself, I guess it’s private land until the
plat records (and the ROW with it).
Some developers around here have very large ego’s and would still
rather I go in a month or two later and rip it all up or bore the hell
out of it again, than let me put conduit in their open utility trench
in the first place.
It’s really baffling and frustrating.
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *D. Ryan Spott
*Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:35 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
They walk into the planning department and ask to be put on the list.
ryan
On 6/30/15 10:30 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then?
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Nope
*From:*Sterling Jacobson <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>
*Sent:*Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM
*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list
and put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans?
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and
order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all
are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of
obtain ROW access.
*From:*Adam Moffett <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>
*Sent:*Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM
*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size
stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the
law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in
some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your
family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me.
Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't
need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a
ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions
you. It looks kind of official.
On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles.
Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail?
I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me.
Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with
slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful.
What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how
often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb
is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three
years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I
just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers)
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see
your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part
of the team.
--
D. Ryan Spott | NGC457, llc
broadband | telco | colo | communities
PO Box 1734 Sultan, WA 98294
425-939-0047
--
D. Ryan Spott | NGC457, llc
broadband | telco | colo | communities
PO Box 1734 Sultan, WA 98294
425-939-0047
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
If you put in poles in the ROW, they are there for anyone else to use as well I assume? If you were putting it down for long stretches like this, rural, where homesare 1/4 mile to 3 miles apart, would you put a hndhole in in front just in case? half the homes are 1/8 to 1/4 mile up a lane so it would still have a cost down the road to pick them up On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > Yes, you can put in poles. > No, I don’t put handholes anywhere I don’t need to. That normally means > splice cases. If you can see a place where you may want to branch off in > the future, yes put in a handhole and some slack. > > No, farmers do not do JULIE. So you hit their irrigation lines or their > water or sewer, you fix it. > > If you ruin a farmer’s crop, normally you pay for that too. I don’t think > ROWs give you surface rights. You can still farm the land. And whoever is > under you has to compensate you for losses. > > Costs depend on installation technology. Plowed, assuming you own the > plow, you can be in the $2/foot range. > Bored you will be in the $20/foot range. > Rock will be more. > > *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:47 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country > > If there are no poles, does ROW give privilege to put them in? I assume > that would get costly. > > Im probably wrong here, but I dont like poles of the wood kind, our drunks > in our rural areas are masters at taking out more than one per DUI, we have > champion drunks here. And I dee them snapped alot in the winter time. > > I wouldnt consider anything direct buried. > > > Would you put handholes in at intersections where you would be making a > turn? > > Do farmers do JULIE (thats our locating program in this area) before they > tile? I assume not since they take ROW to farm, a little each year (we had > a project go through a couple years ago where a farmer has a few miles of > corn about 10 feet wide dug out for being in the ROW, I loved it, cheating > tax subsidized prick) > > > On average, for plowed or trenched duct, permitting costs aside, what is > the cost per mile to run fiber (duct and fiber I assume are the only > infrastructure costs exclusing the treminations and hardware on each end) > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson > wrote: > >> How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM >> >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >> >> >> >> Nope >> >> >> >> *From:* Sterling Jacobson >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM >> >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >> >> >> >> Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put >> conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On >> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >> >> >> >> Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from >> the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered >> a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. >> >> >> >> *From:* Adam Moffett >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM >> >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >> >> >> >> The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you >> can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose >> tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have >> been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. >> >> Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need >> pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you >> can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of >> official. >> >> On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: >> >> Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. >> >> Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? >> >> >> >> I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. >> >> >> >> Details like how often you need handhol
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Yep, FCC regulates pole contact fees. You have to share. Yes, handholes in front of each house. From: That One Guy /sarcasm Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 1:01 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country If you put in poles in the ROW, they are there for anyone else to use as well I assume? If you were putting it down for long stretches like this, rural, where homesare 1/4 mile to 3 miles apart, would you put a hndhole in in front just in case? half the homes are 1/8 to 1/4 mile up a lane so it would still have a cost down the road to pick them up On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: Yes, you can put in poles. No, I don’t put handholes anywhere I don’t need to. That normally means splice cases. If you can see a place where you may want to branch off in the future, yes put in a handhole and some slack. No, farmers do not do JULIE. So you hit their irrigation lines or their water or sewer, you fix it. If you ruin a farmer’s crop, normally you pay for that too. I don’t think ROWs give you surface rights. You can still farm the land. And whoever is under you has to compensate you for losses. Costs depend on installation technology. Plowed, assuming you own the plow, you can be in the $2/foot range. Bored you will be in the $20/foot range. Rock will be more. From: That One Guy /sarcasm Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:47 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country If there are no poles, does ROW give privilege to put them in? I assume that would get costly. Im probably wrong here, but I dont like poles of the wood kind, our drunks in our rural areas are masters at taking out more than one per DUI, we have champion drunks here. And I dee them snapped alot in the winter time. I wouldnt consider anything direct buried. Would you put handholes in at intersections where you would be making a turn? Do farmers do JULIE (thats our locating program in this area) before they tile? I assume not since they take ROW to farm, a little each year (we had a project go through a couple years ago where a farmer has a few miles of corn about 10 feet wide dug out for being in the ROW, I loved it, cheating tax subsidized prick) On average, for plowed or trenched duct, permitting costs aside, what is the cost per mile to run fiber (duct and fiber I assume are the only infrastructure costs exclusing the treminations and hardware on each end) On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote: How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Nope From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have alre
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Sort of related maybe - does anyone know if electric co-ops are still exempt from FCC pole attachment rules? On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:01 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > If you put in poles in the ROW, they are there for anyone else to use as > well I assume? > If you were putting it down for long stretches like this, rural, where > homesare 1/4 mile to 3 miles apart, would you put a hndhole in in front > just in case? half the homes are 1/8 to 1/4 mile up a lane so it would > still have a cost down the road to pick them up > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > >> Yes, you can put in poles. >> No, I don’t put handholes anywhere I don’t need to. That normally means >> splice cases. If you can see a place where you may want to branch off in >> the future, yes put in a handhole and some slack. >> >> No, farmers do not do JULIE. So you hit their irrigation lines or their >> water or sewer, you fix it. >> >> If you ruin a farmer’s crop, normally you pay for that too. I don’t >> think ROWs give you surface rights. You can still farm the land. And >> whoever is under you has to compensate you for losses. >> >> Costs depend on installation technology. Plowed, assuming you own the >> plow, you can be in the $2/foot range. >> Bored you will be in the $20/foot range. >> Rock will be more. >> >> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:47 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >> >> If there are no poles, does ROW give privilege to put them in? I assume >> that would get costly. >> >> Im probably wrong here, but I dont like poles of the wood kind, our >> drunks in our rural areas are masters at taking out more than one per DUI, >> we have champion drunks here. And I dee them snapped alot in the winter >> time. >> >> I wouldnt consider anything direct buried. >> >> >> Would you put handholes in at intersections where you would be making a >> turn? >> >> Do farmers do JULIE (thats our locating program in this area) before they >> tile? I assume not since they take ROW to farm, a little each year (we had >> a project go through a couple years ago where a farmer has a few miles of >> corn about 10 feet wide dug out for being in the ROW, I loved it, cheating >> tax subsidized prick) >> >> >> On average, for plowed or trenched duct, permitting costs aside, what is >> the cost per mile to run fiber (duct and fiber I assume are the only >> infrastructure costs exclusing the treminations and hardware on each end) >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson > > wrote: >> >>> How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM >>> >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >>> >>> >>> >>> Nope >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson >>> >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM >>> >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >>> >>> >>> >>> Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put >>> conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On >>> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >>> >>> >>> >>> Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order >>> from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are >>> considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Adam Moffett >>> >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM >>> >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >>> >>> >>> >>> The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you >>> can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose >>> tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have >>> been able to discipline your famil
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Co-ops are exempt from a bunch of regulatory things. I don’t think things have changed there. But if they let anyone on, they have to let everyone on I think. I never had a problem with a co-op letting me on a pole. From: Harold Bledsoe Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 1:16 PM To: af Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Sort of related maybe - does anyone know if electric co-ops are still exempt from FCC pole attachment rules? On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:01 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: If you put in poles in the ROW, they are there for anyone else to use as well I assume? If you were putting it down for long stretches like this, rural, where homesare 1/4 mile to 3 miles apart, would you put a hndhole in in front just in case? half the homes are 1/8 to 1/4 mile up a lane so it would still have a cost down the road to pick them up On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: Yes, you can put in poles. No, I don’t put handholes anywhere I don’t need to. That normally means splice cases. If you can see a place where you may want to branch off in the future, yes put in a handhole and some slack. No, farmers do not do JULIE. So you hit their irrigation lines or their water or sewer, you fix it. If you ruin a farmer’s crop, normally you pay for that too. I don’t think ROWs give you surface rights. You can still farm the land. And whoever is under you has to compensate you for losses. Costs depend on installation technology. Plowed, assuming you own the plow, you can be in the $2/foot range. Bored you will be in the $20/foot range. Rock will be more. From: That One Guy /sarcasm Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:47 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country If there are no poles, does ROW give privilege to put them in? I assume that would get costly. Im probably wrong here, but I dont like poles of the wood kind, our drunks in our rural areas are masters at taking out more than one per DUI, we have champion drunks here. And I dee them snapped alot in the winter time. I wouldnt consider anything direct buried. Would you put handholes in at intersections where you would be making a turn? Do farmers do JULIE (thats our locating program in this area) before they tile? I assume not since they take ROW to farm, a little each year (we had a project go through a couple years ago where a farmer has a few miles of corn about 10 feet wide dug out for being in the ROW, I loved it, cheating tax subsidized prick) On average, for plowed or trenched duct, permitting costs aside, what is the cost per mile to run fiber (duct and fiber I assume are the only infrastructure costs exclusing the treminations and hardware on each end) On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote: How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Nope From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning o
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Do those fees go to the owner of the pole? Not that theres really probably a market for other stuff in these areas, I assume if we put them in we are also on the hook for pole repairs when our drunks smash into them? On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > Co-ops are exempt from a bunch of regulatory things. I don’t think > things have changed there. > But if they let anyone on, they have to let everyone on I think. I never > had a problem with a co-op letting me on a pole. > > *From:* Harold Bledsoe > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 1:16 PM > *To:* af > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country > > Sort of related maybe - does anyone know if electric co-ops are still > exempt from FCC pole attachment rules? > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:01 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < > thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> If you put in poles in the ROW, they are there for anyone else to use as >> well I assume? >> If you were putting it down for long stretches like this, rural, where >> homesare 1/4 mile to 3 miles apart, would you put a hndhole in in front >> just in case? half the homes are 1/8 to 1/4 mile up a lane so it would >> still have a cost down the road to pick them up >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >> >>> Yes, you can put in poles. >>> No, I don’t put handholes anywhere I don’t need to. That normally means >>> splice cases. If you can see a place where you may want to branch off in >>> the future, yes put in a handhole and some slack. >>> >>> No, farmers do not do JULIE. So you hit their irrigation lines or their >>> water or sewer, you fix it. >>> >>> If you ruin a farmer’s crop, normally you pay for that too. I don’t >>> think ROWs give you surface rights. You can still farm the land. And >>> whoever is under you has to compensate you for losses. >>> >>> Costs depend on installation technology. Plowed, assuming you own the >>> plow, you can be in the $2/foot range. >>> Bored you will be in the $20/foot range. >>> Rock will be more. >>> >>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:47 AM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >>> >>> If there are no poles, does ROW give privilege to put them in? I >>> assume that would get costly. >>> >>> Im probably wrong here, but I dont like poles of the wood kind, our >>> drunks in our rural areas are masters at taking out more than one per DUI, >>> we have champion drunks here. And I dee them snapped alot in the winter >>> time. >>> >>> I wouldnt consider anything direct buried. >>> >>> >>> Would you put handholes in at intersections where you would be making a >>> turn? >>> >>> Do farmers do JULIE (thats our locating program in this area) before >>> they tile? I assume not since they take ROW to farm, a little each year (we >>> had a project go through a couple years ago where a farmer has a few miles >>> of corn about 10 feet wide dug out for being in the ROW, I loved it, >>> cheating tax subsidized prick) >>> >>> >>> On average, for plowed or trenched duct, permitting costs aside, what is >>> the cost per mile to run fiber (duct and fiber I assume are the only >>> infrastructure costs exclusing the treminations and hardware on each end) >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson < >>> sterl...@avative.net> wrote: >>> >>>> How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM >>>> >>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Nope >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson >>>> >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM >>>> >>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and >>>> put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afm
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Yep, minimum of $2/pole per year. Probably more like $12 to $20. From: That One Guy /sarcasm Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 1:30 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Do those fees go to the owner of the pole? Not that theres really probably a market for other stuff in these areas, I assume if we put them in we are also on the hook for pole repairs when our drunks smash into them? On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: Co-ops are exempt from a bunch of regulatory things. I don’t think things have changed there. But if they let anyone on, they have to let everyone on I think. I never had a problem with a co-op letting me on a pole. From: Harold Bledsoe Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 1:16 PM To: af Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Sort of related maybe - does anyone know if electric co-ops are still exempt from FCC pole attachment rules? On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:01 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: If you put in poles in the ROW, they are there for anyone else to use as well I assume? If you were putting it down for long stretches like this, rural, where homesare 1/4 mile to 3 miles apart, would you put a hndhole in in front just in case? half the homes are 1/8 to 1/4 mile up a lane so it would still have a cost down the road to pick them up On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: Yes, you can put in poles. No, I don’t put handholes anywhere I don’t need to. That normally means splice cases. If you can see a place where you may want to branch off in the future, yes put in a handhole and some slack. No, farmers do not do JULIE. So you hit their irrigation lines or their water or sewer, you fix it. If you ruin a farmer’s crop, normally you pay for that too. I don’t think ROWs give you surface rights. You can still farm the land. And whoever is under you has to compensate you for losses. Costs depend on installation technology. Plowed, assuming you own the plow, you can be in the $2/foot range. Bored you will be in the $20/foot range. Rock will be more. From: That One Guy /sarcasm Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:47 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country If there are no poles, does ROW give privilege to put them in? I assume that would get costly. Im probably wrong here, but I dont like poles of the wood kind, our drunks in our rural areas are masters at taking out more than one per DUI, we have champion drunks here. And I dee them snapped alot in the winter time. I wouldnt consider anything direct buried. Would you put handholes in at intersections where you would be making a turn? Do farmers do JULIE (thats our locating program in this area) before they tile? I assume not since they take ROW to farm, a little each year (we had a project go through a couple years ago where a farmer has a few miles of corn about 10 feet wide dug out for being in the ROW, I loved it, cheating tax subsidized prick) On average, for plowed or trenched duct, permitting costs aside, what is the cost per mile to run fiber (duct and fiber I assume are the only infrastructure costs exclusing the treminations and hardware on each end) On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote: How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Nope From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (o
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
I suppose you cant go stick poles up every three feet in the ROW and make them attach to all of them? I could retire, Ill be the pole king. Im pretty sure there is an inappropriate comment in there somewhere On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > Yep, minimum of $2/pole per year. Probably more like $12 to $20. > > *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 1:30 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country > > Do those fees go to the owner of the pole? Not that theres really > probably a market for other stuff in these areas, I assume if we put them > in we are also on the hook for pole repairs when our drunks smash into them? > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > >> Co-ops are exempt from a bunch of regulatory things. I don’t think >> things have changed there. >> But if they let anyone on, they have to let everyone on I think. I never >> had a problem with a co-op letting me on a pole. >> >> *From:* Harold Bledsoe >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 1:16 PM >> *To:* af >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >> >> Sort of related maybe - does anyone know if electric co-ops are still >> exempt from FCC pole attachment rules? >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:01 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < >> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> If you put in poles in the ROW, they are there for anyone else to use as >>> well I assume? >>> If you were putting it down for long stretches like this, rural, where >>> homesare 1/4 mile to 3 miles apart, would you put a hndhole in in front >>> just in case? half the homes are 1/8 to 1/4 mile up a lane so it would >>> still have a cost down the road to pick them up >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, you can put in poles. >>>> No, I don’t put handholes anywhere I don’t need to. That normally >>>> means splice cases. If you can see a place where you may want to branch >>>> off in the future, yes put in a handhole and some slack. >>>> >>>> No, farmers do not do JULIE. So you hit their irrigation lines or >>>> their water or sewer, you fix it. >>>> >>>> If you ruin a farmer’s crop, normally you pay for that too. I don’t >>>> think ROWs give you surface rights. You can still farm the land. And >>>> whoever is under you has to compensate you for losses. >>>> >>>> Costs depend on installation technology. Plowed, assuming you own the >>>> plow, you can be in the $2/foot range. >>>> Bored you will be in the $20/foot range. >>>> Rock will be more. >>>> >>>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:47 AM >>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >>>> >>>> If there are no poles, does ROW give privilege to put them in? I >>>> assume that would get costly. >>>> >>>> Im probably wrong here, but I dont like poles of the wood kind, our >>>> drunks in our rural areas are masters at taking out more than one per DUI, >>>> we have champion drunks here. And I dee them snapped alot in the winter >>>> time. >>>> >>>> I wouldnt consider anything direct buried. >>>> >>>> >>>> Would you put handholes in at intersections where you would be making a >>>> turn? >>>> >>>> Do farmers do JULIE (thats our locating program in this area) before >>>> they tile? I assume not since they take ROW to farm, a little each year (we >>>> had a project go through a couple years ago where a farmer has a few miles >>>> of corn about 10 feet wide dug out for being in the ROW, I loved it, >>>> cheating tax subsidized prick) >>>> >>>> >>>> On average, for plowed or trenched duct, permitting costs aside, what >>>> is the cost per mile to run fiber (duct and fiber I assume are the only >>>> infrastructure costs exclusing the treminations and hardware on each end) >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson < >>>> sterl...@avative.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown >>>
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
A little off topic, but pole related: Can poles be put in the ROW for use primarily as small towers? On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:32 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > Yep, minimum of $2/pole per year. Probably more like $12 to $20. > > *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 1:30 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country > > Do those fees go to the owner of the pole? Not that theres really > probably a market for other stuff in these areas, I assume if we put them > in we are also on the hook for pole repairs when our drunks smash into them? > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > >> Co-ops are exempt from a bunch of regulatory things. I don’t think >> things have changed there. >> But if they let anyone on, they have to let everyone on I think. I never >> had a problem with a co-op letting me on a pole. >> >> *From:* Harold Bledsoe >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 1:16 PM >> *To:* af >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >> >> Sort of related maybe - does anyone know if electric co-ops are still >> exempt from FCC pole attachment rules? >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:01 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < >> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> If you put in poles in the ROW, they are there for anyone else to use as >>> well I assume? >>> If you were putting it down for long stretches like this, rural, where >>> homesare 1/4 mile to 3 miles apart, would you put a hndhole in in front >>> just in case? half the homes are 1/8 to 1/4 mile up a lane so it would >>> still have a cost down the road to pick them up >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, you can put in poles. >>>> No, I don’t put handholes anywhere I don’t need to. That normally >>>> means splice cases. If you can see a place where you may want to branch >>>> off in the future, yes put in a handhole and some slack. >>>> >>>> No, farmers do not do JULIE. So you hit their irrigation lines or >>>> their water or sewer, you fix it. >>>> >>>> If you ruin a farmer’s crop, normally you pay for that too. I don’t >>>> think ROWs give you surface rights. You can still farm the land. And >>>> whoever is under you has to compensate you for losses. >>>> >>>> Costs depend on installation technology. Plowed, assuming you own the >>>> plow, you can be in the $2/foot range. >>>> Bored you will be in the $20/foot range. >>>> Rock will be more. >>>> >>>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:47 AM >>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >>>> >>>> If there are no poles, does ROW give privilege to put them in? I >>>> assume that would get costly. >>>> >>>> Im probably wrong here, but I dont like poles of the wood kind, our >>>> drunks in our rural areas are masters at taking out more than one per DUI, >>>> we have champion drunks here. And I dee them snapped alot in the winter >>>> time. >>>> >>>> I wouldnt consider anything direct buried. >>>> >>>> >>>> Would you put handholes in at intersections where you would be making a >>>> turn? >>>> >>>> Do farmers do JULIE (thats our locating program in this area) before >>>> they tile? I assume not since they take ROW to farm, a little each year (we >>>> had a project go through a couple years ago where a farmer has a few miles >>>> of corn about 10 feet wide dug out for being in the ROW, I loved it, >>>> cheating tax subsidized prick) >>>> >>>> >>>> On average, for plowed or trenched duct, permitting costs aside, what >>>> is the cost per mile to run fiber (duct and fiber I assume are the only >>>> infrastructure costs exclusing the treminations and hardware on each end) >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson < >>>> sterl...@avative.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown >>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM >>>>> >>>>> *To:* af@af
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
I have put towers in the ROW for use a towers, so I would presume yes. From: Christopher Gray Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 8:30 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country A little off topic, but pole related: Can poles be put in the ROW for use primarily as small towers? On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:32 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: Yep, minimum of $2/pole per year. Probably more like $12 to $20. From: That One Guy /sarcasm Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 1:30 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Do those fees go to the owner of the pole? Not that theres really probably a market for other stuff in these areas, I assume if we put them in we are also on the hook for pole repairs when our drunks smash into them? On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: Co-ops are exempt from a bunch of regulatory things. I don’t think things have changed there. But if they let anyone on, they have to let everyone on I think. I never had a problem with a co-op letting me on a pole. From: Harold Bledsoe Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 1:16 PM To: af Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Sort of related maybe - does anyone know if electric co-ops are still exempt from FCC pole attachment rules? On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:01 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: If you put in poles in the ROW, they are there for anyone else to use as well I assume? If you were putting it down for long stretches like this, rural, where homesare 1/4 mile to 3 miles apart, would you put a hndhole in in front just in case? half the homes are 1/8 to 1/4 mile up a lane so it would still have a cost down the road to pick them up On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: Yes, you can put in poles. No, I don’t put handholes anywhere I don’t need to. That normally means splice cases. If you can see a place where you may want to branch off in the future, yes put in a handhole and some slack. No, farmers do not do JULIE. So you hit their irrigation lines or their water or sewer, you fix it. If you ruin a farmer’s crop, normally you pay for that too. I don’t think ROWs give you surface rights. You can still farm the land. And whoever is under you has to compensate you for losses. Costs depend on installation technology. Plowed, assuming you own the plow, you can be in the $2/foot range. Bored you will be in the $20/foot range. Rock will be more. From: That One Guy /sarcasm Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:47 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country If there are no poles, does ROW give privilege to put them in? I assume that would get costly. Im probably wrong here, but I dont like poles of the wood kind, our drunks in our rural areas are masters at taking out more than one per DUI, we have champion drunks here. And I dee them snapped alot in the winter time. I wouldnt consider anything direct buried. Would you put handholes in at intersections where you would be making a turn? Do farmers do JULIE (thats our locating program in this area) before they tile? I assume not since they take ROW to farm, a little each year (we had a project go through a couple years ago where a farmer has a few miles of corn about 10 feet wide dug out for being in the ROW, I loved it, cheating tax subsidized prick) On average, for plowed or trenched duct, permitting costs aside, what is the cost per mile to run fiber (duct and fiber I assume are the only infrastructure costs exclusing the treminations and hardware on each end) On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote: How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Nope From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
Interesting... so in theory, we can go and stick towers in ROW now? I assume there must be restrictions on what sort of poles/tower can be put in? On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: > I have put towers in the ROW for use a towers, so I would presume yes. > > *From:* Christopher Gray > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 01, 2015 8:30 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country > > A little off topic, but pole related: > > Can poles be put in the ROW for use primarily as small towers? > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:32 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > >> Yep, minimum of $2/pole per year. Probably more like $12 to $20. >> >> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 1:30 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >> >> Do those fees go to the owner of the pole? Not that theres really >> probably a market for other stuff in these areas, I assume if we put them >> in we are also on the hook for pole repairs when our drunks smash into them? >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >> >>> Co-ops are exempt from a bunch of regulatory things. I don’t think >>> things have changed there. >>> But if they let anyone on, they have to let everyone on I think. I >>> never had a problem with a co-op letting me on a pole. >>> >>> *From:* Harold Bledsoe >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 1:16 PM >>> *To:* af >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >>> >>> Sort of related maybe - does anyone know if electric co-ops are still >>> exempt from FCC pole attachment rules? >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:01 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < >>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> If you put in poles in the ROW, they are there for anyone else to use >>>> as well I assume? >>>> If you were putting it down for long stretches like this, rural, where >>>> homesare 1/4 mile to 3 miles apart, would you put a hndhole in in front >>>> just in case? half the homes are 1/8 to 1/4 mile up a lane so it would >>>> still have a cost down the road to pick them up >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes, you can put in poles. >>>>> No, I don’t put handholes anywhere I don’t need to. That normally >>>>> means splice cases. If you can see a place where you may want to branch >>>>> off in the future, yes put in a handhole and some slack. >>>>> >>>>> No, farmers do not do JULIE. So you hit their irrigation lines or >>>>> their water or sewer, you fix it. >>>>> >>>>> If you ruin a farmer’s crop, normally you pay for that too. I don’t >>>>> think ROWs give you surface rights. You can still farm the land. And >>>>> whoever is under you has to compensate you for losses. >>>>> >>>>> Costs depend on installation technology. Plowed, assuming you own the >>>>> plow, you can be in the $2/foot range. >>>>> Bored you will be in the $20/foot range. >>>>> Rock will be more. >>>>> >>>>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm >>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:47 AM >>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country >>>>> >>>>> If there are no poles, does ROW give privilege to put them in? I >>>>> assume that would get costly. >>>>> >>>>> Im probably wrong here, but I dont like poles of the wood kind, our >>>>> drunks in our rural areas are masters at taking out more than one per DUI, >>>>> we have champion drunks here. And I dee them snapped alot in the winter >>>>> time. >>>>> >>>>> I wouldnt consider anything direct buried. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Would you put handholes in at intersections where you would be making >>>>> a turn? >>>>> >>>>> Do farmers do JULIE (thats our locating program in this area) before >>>>> they tile? I assume not since they take ROW to farm, a little each year >>>>> (we >>>>> had a project go through a couple years ago where a farmer has a few miles >>>>> of corn about 10 feet wide dug out for being in the ROW, I loved it, >>>>> cheating tax subsidized
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
They should be calling JULIE. If not, it's their ass on the line. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "That One Guy /sarcasm" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 12:47:40 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country If there are no poles, does ROW give privilege to put them in? I assume that would get costly. Im probably wrong here, but I dont like poles of the wood kind, our drunks in our rural areas are masters at taking out more than one per DUI, we have champion drunks here. And I dee them snapped alot in the winter time. I wouldnt consider anything direct buried. Would you put handholes in at intersections where you would be making a turn? Do farmers do JULIE (thats our locating program in this area) before they tile? I assume not since they take ROW to farm, a little each year (we had a project go through a couple years ago where a farmer has a few miles of corn about 10 feet wide dug out for being in the ROW, I loved it, cheating tax subsidized prick) On average, for plowed or trenched duct, permitting costs aside, what is the cost per mile to run fiber (duct and fiber I assume are the only infrastructure costs exclusing the treminations and hardware on each end) On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson < sterl...@avative.net > wrote: How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Nope From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country
They have what is called Right of Way access. If you are a registered utility in most states you can get this. This varies from state to state on what has to happen to do this. Justin --- Justin Wilson http://www.mtin.net <http://www.mtin.net/> Managed Services – xISP Solutions – Data Centers http://www.thebrotherswisp.com <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> Podcast about xISP topics http://www.midwest-ix.com <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Peering – Transit – Internet Exchange > On Jun 30, 2015, at 1:30 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote: > > How do Comcast and Centurylink get that privilege then? > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On > Behalf Of Chuck McCown > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:20 AM > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country > > Nope > > From: Sterling Jacobson <mailto:sterl...@avative.net> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:11 AM > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country > > Also, does this mean we can get on the city/plat developers list and put > conduit in open trench and see/approve developer ROW plans? > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On > Behalf Of Chuck McCown > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:06 AM > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country > > Ye’all have rights for ROWs now. Was in the latest report and order from the > FCC. If you are a BIAS provider (which you all are) you are considered a > “public utility” for the purpose of obtain ROW access. > > From: Adam Moffett <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:19 AM > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber in the country > > The original rule of thumb was something to do with what size stick you can > use to beat your wife/kids without breaking the law. 144 strand loose tube > is about the size of a thumb, so in some jurisdictions you might have been > able to discipline your family with it. Say hi to your thumb for me. > > Aerial is cheaper if you have pole attachment rights. You don't need pole > attachment rights (or any special rights) to bury in a ROW, but you can point > at it when some guvmint goon questions you. It looks kind of official. > > On 6/30/2015 12:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: > Say you want to run fiber for 10 miles. > Aside from the boring equipment and permits what does that entail? > > I know there are 36 bazillion answers, but humor me. > > Details like how often you need handholes and how to deal with slacking for > cut fiber splicing would be very helpful. > > What is a rule of thumb in your long term planning on how often you can > expect a fiber cut. (an example of rule of thumb is I expect a storm related > issue at least once every three years at every site, there is no actual > science, or math, I just look at my thumb and it provides me sage answers) > > -- > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as > part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. >
