Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Eric Kuhnke]

I have access to some bucket trucks, fusion splicers and OTDRs, where can I
get some of that $1.5m for a small doctors office?

:)


On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Paul Stewart <p...@paulstewart.org> wrote:

> well as we all know, nothing is for free.  when I see how money is spent
> in canada relating to healthcare, I see a huge amount of waste…. things
> liking doing 1.5mil dollar fiber builds to connect a doctors office in a
> remote area that is only open 4 hours a week kind of crap…. seen LOTS of
> that kind of spending…..
>
>
> > On Jan 14, 2017, at 1:06 PM, Jay Weekley <par...@cyberbroadband.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > I thought healthcare in Canada was free.
> >
> > Paul Stewart wrote:
> >> Canada isn’t all it’s cracked up to be neither …. ;)
> >>
> >> the $2100/month for health insurance sounds like it’s a lot of parts
> involved though…. sounds more like a mixture of health coverage and
> benefits.
> >>
> >> So in Canada, we have provincial and federal healthcare coverage which
> various from province to province.  I didn’t know until Eric mentioned it
> now about folks in BC having to pay out of their own pockets for provincial
> health care (a portion).
> >>
> >> Ontario for example, where I live, and much like other provinces in
> Canada, have very high taxes in my opinion.  For me, here’s what I see:
> >>
> >> healthcare coverage - included by province for “most” things… doctors
> visits, hospital coverage if needed (ward coverage only).  No out of pocket
> expenses, however a lot of doctors are fed up with the way they are being
> treated by the province and coming up with “nickel and dime” fees such as a
> $30/fee every time they need to write a prescription.  This varies wildly
> amongst areas and doctors offices.
> >>
> >> Benefits coverage from my employer - upgrades your hospital stays to
> private room and covers a few more “corner cases” that province won’t
> cover.  Vision coverage of $200/year per household member (glasses/contacts
> etc).   100% of prescription drugs covered at zero cost (with some
> exceptions that I’ve never come across).  These benefits cost me zero as an
> employee but cost the company quite an amount - taking a guess of around
> $400-$600/month per employee.  These benefits also include short term and
> long term disability coverage too…. massage therapy, chiropractor treatment
> etc… (all with limits though but enough to get some “basic” stuff done)
> >>
> >> The stuff that really kills me is all the other stuff …. simple stuff
> like cost of groceries and gasoline … electrical bills, property taxes
> etc…. income taxes
> >>
> >> Quick breakdown for me (all averaged prices):
> >>
> >> $800-$1000/month in automobile gasoline
> >> $400/month for home/auto insurance
> >> $500/month property taxes (includes water bill @ $100/month)
> >> $300/month in highway tolls
> >> $80/month for natural gas
> >> $350/month for electricity
> >> $60/month in bank fees
> >> $300/month in cell phone bills (3 phones on plan)
> >> $100/month for satellite TV
> >> $120/month for Internet service (two providers)
> >> $1200/month for food/drink
> >>
> >> This is for family of 4 and doesn’t include any alcohol, entertainment
> (movies/dinners) etc… also doesn’t include mortgage if I had one etc…
> doesn’t include things like savings/retirement planning etc etc….
> >>
> >> Total monthly of about $4400 for family of 4 and let’s add a mortgage
> of $1800/month and that would bring it to roughly $6,200 to live
> comfortably but not luxury by any means.  In my personal case I also have
> about $1300/month in car payments too ;)
> >>
> >> To top it all off, 39% of my income immediately goes to various income
> related taxes
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Jan 13, 2017, at 5:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net
> <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Then I would have to defect to Canada…
> >>> Seriously though, this is why it’s such a big issue in the USA.
> >>> My middle class-hood is killing me here.
> >>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]*On Behalf Of*Eric Kuhnke
> >>> *Sent:*Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
> >>> *To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> >>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
> >>>
> >>> $2100 a month for health insurance???
> >>>
> >>> My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Paul Stewart]

LOL .. so did I in my former employer where we had for example a contract to 
put fiber into a doctors office.  We did an aerial drop and installed it - it 
was never used for over 2 years (but they paid for it) and decided they weren’t 
going to use it.  It was on a 7 year contract (to avoid construction fees) and 
they just paid it out.  So basically 7 years of what was quite honestly 
expensive fiber service and never used … but paid for no problem.


> On Jan 14, 2017, at 2:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> I like that kind of spending...
> 
> -Original Message- From: Paul Stewart
> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 12:04 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
> 
> well as we all know, nothing is for free.  when I see how money is spent in 
> canada relating to healthcare, I see a huge amount of waste…. things liking 
> doing 1.5mil dollar fiber builds to connect a doctors office in a remote area 
> that is only open 4 hours a week kind of crap…. seen LOTS of that kind of 
> spending…..
> 
> 
>> On Jan 14, 2017, at 1:06 PM, Jay Weekley <par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>> 
>> I thought healthcare in Canada was free.
>> 
>> Paul Stewart wrote:
>>> Canada isn’t all it’s cracked up to be neither …. ;)
>>> 
>>> the $2100/month for health insurance sounds like it’s a lot of parts 
>>> involved though…. sounds more like a mixture of health coverage and 
>>> benefits.
>>> 
>>> So in Canada, we have provincial and federal healthcare coverage which 
>>> various from province to province.  I didn’t know until Eric mentioned it 
>>> now about folks in BC having to pay out of their own pockets for provincial 
>>> health care (a portion).
>>> 
>>> Ontario for example, where I live, and much like other provinces in Canada, 
>>> have very high taxes in my opinion.  For me, here’s what I see:
>>> 
>>> healthcare coverage - included by province for “most” things… doctors 
>>> visits, hospital coverage if needed (ward coverage only).  No out of pocket 
>>> expenses, however a lot of doctors are fed up with the way they are being 
>>> treated by the province and coming up with “nickel and dime” fees such as a 
>>> $30/fee every time they need to write a prescription. This varies wildly 
>>> amongst areas and doctors offices.
>>> 
>>> Benefits coverage from my employer - upgrades your hospital stays to 
>>> private room and covers a few more “corner cases” that province won’t 
>>> cover.  Vision coverage of $200/year per household member (glasses/contacts 
>>> etc).   100% of prescription drugs covered at zero cost (with some 
>>> exceptions that I’ve never come across).  These benefits cost me zero as an 
>>> employee but cost the company quite an amount - taking a guess of around 
>>> $400-$600/month per employee.  These benefits also include short term and 
>>> long term disability coverage too…. massage therapy, chiropractor treatment 
>>> etc… (all with limits though but enough to get some “basic” stuff done)
>>> 
>>> The stuff that really kills me is all the other stuff …. simple stuff like 
>>> cost of groceries and gasoline … electrical bills, property taxes etc…. 
>>> income taxes
>>> 
>>> Quick breakdown for me (all averaged prices):
>>> 
>>> $800-$1000/month in automobile gasoline
>>> $400/month for home/auto insurance
>>> $500/month property taxes (includes water bill @ $100/month)
>>> $300/month in highway tolls
>>> $80/month for natural gas
>>> $350/month for electricity
>>> $60/month in bank fees
>>> $300/month in cell phone bills (3 phones on plan)
>>> $100/month for satellite TV
>>> $120/month for Internet service (two providers)
>>> $1200/month for food/drink
>>> 
>>> This is for family of 4 and doesn’t include any alcohol, entertainment 
>>> (movies/dinners) etc… also doesn’t include mortgage if I had one etc… 
>>> doesn’t include things like savings/retirement planning etc etc….
>>> 
>>> Total monthly of about $4400 for family of 4 and let’s add a mortgage of 
>>> $1800/month and that would bring it to roughly $6,200 to live comfortably 
>>> but not luxury by any means.  In my personal case I also have about 
>>> $1300/month in car payments too ;)
>>> 
>>> To top it all off, 39% of my income immediately goes to various income 
>>> related taxes
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 13, 2017, at 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

And this is why it would never succeed here, or last indefinitely anywhere.

On Jan 14, 2017 1:08 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Take a look at the medicare billing practices of some physicians if you
> want to see waste.
>
> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 12:07 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
> If you think Canada is wasting tax dollars, you ought to come down here
> and see how professional tax wasters work down here.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 1/14/2017 11:04 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:
>
>> well as we all know, nothing is for free.  when I see how money is spent
>> in canada relating to healthcare, I see a huge amount of waste…. things
>> liking doing 1.5mil dollar fiber builds to connect a doctors office in a
>> remote area that is only open 4 hours a week kind of crap…. seen LOTS of
>> that kind of spending…..
>>
>>
>> On Jan 14, 2017, at 1:06 PM, Jay Weekley <par...@cyberbroadband.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I thought healthcare in Canada was free.
>>>
>>> Paul Stewart wrote:
>>>
>>>> Canada isn’t all it’s cracked up to be neither …. ;)
>>>>
>>>> the $2100/month for health insurance sounds like it’s a lot of parts
>>>> involved though…. sounds more like a mixture of health coverage and
>>>> benefits.
>>>>
>>>> So in Canada, we have provincial and federal healthcare coverage which
>>>> various from province to province.  I didn’t know until Eric mentioned it
>>>> now about folks in BC having to pay out of their own pockets for provincial
>>>> health care (a portion).
>>>>
>>>> Ontario for example, where I live, and much like other provinces in
>>>> Canada, have very high taxes in my opinion.  For me, here’s what I see:
>>>>
>>>> healthcare coverage - included by province for “most” things… doctors
>>>> visits, hospital coverage if needed (ward coverage only).  No out of pocket
>>>> expenses, however a lot of doctors are fed up with the way they are being
>>>> treated by the province and coming up with “nickel and dime” fees such as a
>>>> $30/fee every time they need to write a prescription. This varies wildly
>>>> amongst areas and doctors offices.
>>>>
>>>> Benefits coverage from my employer - upgrades your hospital stays to
>>>> private room and covers a few more “corner cases” that province won’t
>>>> cover.  Vision coverage of $200/year per household member (glasses/contacts
>>>> etc).   100% of prescription drugs covered at zero cost (with some
>>>> exceptions that I’ve never come across).  These benefits cost me zero as an
>>>> employee but cost the company quite an amount - taking a guess of around
>>>> $400-$600/month per employee.  These benefits also include short term and
>>>> long term disability coverage too…. massage therapy, chiropractor treatment
>>>> etc… (all with limits though but enough to get some “basic” stuff done)
>>>>
>>>> The stuff that really kills me is all the other stuff …. simple stuff
>>>> like cost of groceries and gasoline … electrical bills, property taxes
>>>> etc…. income taxes
>>>>
>>>> Quick breakdown for me (all averaged prices):
>>>>
>>>> $800-$1000/month in automobile gasoline
>>>> $400/month for home/auto insurance
>>>> $500/month property taxes (includes water bill @ $100/month)
>>>> $300/month in highway tolls
>>>> $80/month for natural gas
>>>> $350/month for electricity
>>>> $60/month in bank fees
>>>> $300/month in cell phone bills (3 phones on plan)
>>>> $100/month for satellite TV
>>>> $120/month for Internet service (two providers)
>>>> $1200/month for food/drink
>>>>
>>>> This is for family of 4 and doesn’t include any alcohol, entertainment
>>>> (movies/dinners) etc… also doesn’t include mortgage if I had one etc…
>>>> doesn’t include things like savings/retirement planning etc etc….
>>>>
>>>> Total monthly of about $4400 for family of 4 and let’s add a mortgage
>>>> of $1800/month and that would bring it to roughly $6,200 to live
>>>> comfortably but not luxury by any means.  In my personal case I also have
>>>> about $1300/month in car payments too ;)
>>>>
>>>> To top it all o

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[chuck]

Take a look at the medicare billing practices of some physicians if you want 
to see waste.


-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince

Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 12:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

If you think Canada is wasting tax dollars, you ought to come down here
and see how professional tax wasters work down here.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 1/14/2017 11:04 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:
well as we all know, nothing is for free.  when I see how money is spent 
in canada relating to healthcare, I see a huge amount of waste…. things 
liking doing 1.5mil dollar fiber builds to connect a doctors office in a 
remote area that is only open 4 hours a week kind of crap…. seen LOTS of 
that kind of spending…..



On Jan 14, 2017, at 1:06 PM, Jay Weekley <par...@cyberbroadband.net> 
wrote:


I thought healthcare in Canada was free.

Paul Stewart wrote:

Canada isn’t all it’s cracked up to be neither …. ;)

the $2100/month for health insurance sounds like it’s a lot of parts 
involved though…. sounds more like a mixture of health coverage and 
benefits.


So in Canada, we have provincial and federal healthcare coverage which 
various from province to province.  I didn’t know until Eric mentioned 
it now about folks in BC having to pay out of their own pockets for 
provincial health care (a portion).


Ontario for example, where I live, and much like other provinces in 
Canada, have very high taxes in my opinion.  For me, here’s what I see:


healthcare coverage - included by province for “most” things… doctors 
visits, hospital coverage if needed (ward coverage only).  No out of 
pocket expenses, however a lot of doctors are fed up with the way they 
are being treated by the province and coming up with “nickel and dime” 
fees such as a $30/fee every time they need to write a prescription. 
This varies wildly amongst areas and doctors offices.


Benefits coverage from my employer - upgrades your hospital stays to 
private room and covers a few more “corner cases” that province won’t 
cover.  Vision coverage of $200/year per household member 
(glasses/contacts etc).   100% of prescription drugs covered at zero 
cost (with some exceptions that I’ve never come across).  These benefits 
cost me zero as an employee but cost the company quite an amount - 
taking a guess of around $400-$600/month per employee.  These benefits 
also include short term and long term disability coverage too…. massage 
therapy, chiropractor treatment etc… (all with limits though but enough 
to get some “basic” stuff done)


The stuff that really kills me is all the other stuff …. simple stuff 
like cost of groceries and gasoline … electrical bills, property taxes 
etc…. income taxes


Quick breakdown for me (all averaged prices):

$800-$1000/month in automobile gasoline
$400/month for home/auto insurance
$500/month property taxes (includes water bill @ $100/month)
$300/month in highway tolls
$80/month for natural gas
$350/month for electricity
$60/month in bank fees
$300/month in cell phone bills (3 phones on plan)
$100/month for satellite TV
$120/month for Internet service (two providers)
$1200/month for food/drink

This is for family of 4 and doesn’t include any alcohol, entertainment 
(movies/dinners) etc… also doesn’t include mortgage if I had one etc… 
doesn’t include things like savings/retirement planning etc etc….


Total monthly of about $4400 for family of 4 and let’s add a mortgage of 
$1800/month and that would bring it to roughly $6,200 to live 
comfortably but not luxury by any means.  In my personal case I also 
have about $1300/month in car payments too ;)


To top it all off, 39% of my income immediately goes to various income 
related taxes


Paul


On Jan 13, 2017, at 5:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net 
<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:


Then I would have to defect to Canada…
Seriously though, this is why it’s such a big issue in the USA.
My middle class-hood is killing me here.
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]*On Behalf Of*Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:*Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

$2100 a month for health insurance???

My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC 
provincial health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.


I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health 
insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.


It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but 
if you consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to 
your federal payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be 
paying a lot more in a year than I do. No matter what income bracket 
you're in.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:


I'

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Bill Prince]

If you think Canada is wasting tax dollars, you ought to come down here 
and see how professional tax wasters work down here.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 1/14/2017 11:04 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:

well as we all know, nothing is for free.  when I see how money is spent in 
canada relating to healthcare, I see a huge amount of waste…. things liking 
doing 1.5mil dollar fiber builds to connect a doctors office in a remote area 
that is only open 4 hours a week kind of crap…. seen LOTS of that kind of 
spending…..



On Jan 14, 2017, at 1:06 PM, Jay Weekley <par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:

I thought healthcare in Canada was free.

Paul Stewart wrote:

Canada isn’t all it’s cracked up to be neither …. ;)

the $2100/month for health insurance sounds like it’s a lot of parts involved 
though…. sounds more like a mixture of health coverage and benefits.

So in Canada, we have provincial and federal healthcare coverage which various 
from province to province.  I didn’t know until Eric mentioned it now about 
folks in BC having to pay out of their own pockets for provincial health care 
(a portion).

Ontario for example, where I live, and much like other provinces in Canada, 
have very high taxes in my opinion.  For me, here’s what I see:

healthcare coverage - included by province for “most” things… doctors visits, 
hospital coverage if needed (ward coverage only).  No out of pocket expenses, 
however a lot of doctors are fed up with the way they are being treated by the 
province and coming up with “nickel and dime” fees such as a $30/fee every time 
they need to write a prescription.  This varies wildly amongst areas and 
doctors offices.

Benefits coverage from my employer - upgrades your hospital stays to private 
room and covers a few more “corner cases” that province won’t cover.  Vision 
coverage of $200/year per household member (glasses/contacts etc).   100% of 
prescription drugs covered at zero cost (with some exceptions that I’ve never 
come across).  These benefits cost me zero as an employee but cost the company 
quite an amount - taking a guess of around $400-$600/month per employee.  These 
benefits also include short term and long term disability coverage too…. 
massage therapy, chiropractor treatment etc… (all with limits though but enough 
to get some “basic” stuff done)

The stuff that really kills me is all the other stuff …. simple stuff like cost 
of groceries and gasoline … electrical bills, property taxes etc…. income taxes

Quick breakdown for me (all averaged prices):

$800-$1000/month in automobile gasoline
$400/month for home/auto insurance
$500/month property taxes (includes water bill @ $100/month)
$300/month in highway tolls
$80/month for natural gas
$350/month for electricity
$60/month in bank fees
$300/month in cell phone bills (3 phones on plan)
$100/month for satellite TV
$120/month for Internet service (two providers)
$1200/month for food/drink

This is for family of 4 and doesn’t include any alcohol, entertainment 
(movies/dinners) etc… also doesn’t include mortgage if I had one etc…  doesn’t 
include things like savings/retirement planning etc etc….

Total monthly of about $4400 for family of 4 and let’s add a mortgage of 
$1800/month and that would bring it to roughly $6,200 to live comfortably but 
not luxury by any means.  In my personal case I also have about $1300/month in 
car payments too ;)

To top it all off, 39% of my income immediately goes to various income related 
taxes

Paul



On Jan 13, 2017, at 5:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net 
<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:

Then I would have to defect to Canada…
Seriously though, this is why it’s such a big issue in the USA.
My middle class-hood is killing me here.
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]*On Behalf Of*Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:*Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

$2100 a month for health insurance???

My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC provincial 
health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.

I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health 
insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.

It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if you consider 
that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your federal payroll 
deducations for US income tax, you may actually be paying a lot more in a year than I do. 
No matter what income bracket you're in.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net 
<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:

I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median
gross salary for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the
only salary employee of my

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[chuck]

I like that kind of spending...

-Original Message- 
From: Paul Stewart

Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 12:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

well as we all know, nothing is for free.  when I see how money is spent in 
canada relating to healthcare, I see a huge amount of waste…. things liking 
doing 1.5mil dollar fiber builds to connect a doctors office in a remote 
area that is only open 4 hours a week kind of crap…. seen LOTS of that kind 
of spending…..



On Jan 14, 2017, at 1:06 PM, Jay Weekley <par...@cyberbroadband.net> 
wrote:


I thought healthcare in Canada was free.

Paul Stewart wrote:

Canada isn’t all it’s cracked up to be neither …. ;)

the $2100/month for health insurance sounds like it’s a lot of parts 
involved though…. sounds more like a mixture of health coverage and 
benefits.


So in Canada, we have provincial and federal healthcare coverage which 
various from province to province.  I didn’t know until Eric mentioned it 
now about folks in BC having to pay out of their own pockets for 
provincial health care (a portion).


Ontario for example, where I live, and much like other provinces in 
Canada, have very high taxes in my opinion.  For me, here’s what I see:


healthcare coverage - included by province for “most” things… doctors 
visits, hospital coverage if needed (ward coverage only).  No out of 
pocket expenses, however a lot of doctors are fed up with the way they 
are being treated by the province and coming up with “nickel and dime” 
fees such as a $30/fee every time they need to write a prescription. 
This varies wildly amongst areas and doctors offices.


Benefits coverage from my employer - upgrades your hospital stays to 
private room and covers a few more “corner cases” that province won’t 
cover.  Vision coverage of $200/year per household member 
(glasses/contacts etc).   100% of prescription drugs covered at zero cost 
(with some exceptions that I’ve never come across).  These benefits cost 
me zero as an employee but cost the company quite an amount - taking a 
guess of around $400-$600/month per employee.  These benefits also 
include short term and long term disability coverage too…. massage 
therapy, chiropractor treatment etc… (all with limits though but enough 
to get some “basic” stuff done)


The stuff that really kills me is all the other stuff …. simple stuff 
like cost of groceries and gasoline … electrical bills, property taxes 
etc…. income taxes


Quick breakdown for me (all averaged prices):

$800-$1000/month in automobile gasoline
$400/month for home/auto insurance
$500/month property taxes (includes water bill @ $100/month)
$300/month in highway tolls
$80/month for natural gas
$350/month for electricity
$60/month in bank fees
$300/month in cell phone bills (3 phones on plan)
$100/month for satellite TV
$120/month for Internet service (two providers)
$1200/month for food/drink

This is for family of 4 and doesn’t include any alcohol, entertainment 
(movies/dinners) etc… also doesn’t include mortgage if I had one etc… 
doesn’t include things like savings/retirement planning etc etc….


Total monthly of about $4400 for family of 4 and let’s add a mortgage of 
$1800/month and that would bring it to roughly $6,200 to live comfortably 
but not luxury by any means.  In my personal case I also have about 
$1300/month in car payments too ;)


To top it all off, 39% of my income immediately goes to various income 
related taxes


Paul


On Jan 13, 2017, at 5:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net 
<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:


Then I would have to defect to Canada…
Seriously though, this is why it’s such a big issue in the USA.
My middle class-hood is killing me here.
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]*On Behalf Of*Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:*Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

$2100 a month for health insurance???

My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC 
provincial health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.


I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health 
insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.


It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if 
you consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your 
federal payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be 
paying a lot more in a year than I do. No matter what income bracket 
you're in.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net 
<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:


   I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

   Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median
   gross salary for my city.

   I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the
   only salary employee of my startup ISP.
   I

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Paul Stewart]

well as we all know, nothing is for free.  when I see how money is spent in 
canada relating to healthcare, I see a huge amount of waste…. things liking 
doing 1.5mil dollar fiber builds to connect a doctors office in a remote area 
that is only open 4 hours a week kind of crap…. seen LOTS of that kind of 
spending…..


> On Jan 14, 2017, at 1:06 PM, Jay Weekley <par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
> 
> I thought healthcare in Canada was free.
> 
> Paul Stewart wrote:
>> Canada isn’t all it’s cracked up to be neither …. ;)
>> 
>> the $2100/month for health insurance sounds like it’s a lot of parts 
>> involved though…. sounds more like a mixture of health coverage and benefits.
>> 
>> So in Canada, we have provincial and federal healthcare coverage which 
>> various from province to province.  I didn’t know until Eric mentioned it 
>> now about folks in BC having to pay out of their own pockets for provincial 
>> health care (a portion).
>> 
>> Ontario for example, where I live, and much like other provinces in Canada, 
>> have very high taxes in my opinion.  For me, here’s what I see:
>> 
>> healthcare coverage - included by province for “most” things… doctors 
>> visits, hospital coverage if needed (ward coverage only).  No out of pocket 
>> expenses, however a lot of doctors are fed up with the way they are being 
>> treated by the province and coming up with “nickel and dime” fees such as a 
>> $30/fee every time they need to write a prescription.  This varies wildly 
>> amongst areas and doctors offices.
>> 
>> Benefits coverage from my employer - upgrades your hospital stays to private 
>> room and covers a few more “corner cases” that province won’t cover.  Vision 
>> coverage of $200/year per household member (glasses/contacts etc).   100% of 
>> prescription drugs covered at zero cost (with some exceptions that I’ve 
>> never come across).  These benefits cost me zero as an employee but cost the 
>> company quite an amount - taking a guess of around $400-$600/month per 
>> employee.  These benefits also include short term and long term disability 
>> coverage too…. massage therapy, chiropractor treatment etc… (all with limits 
>> though but enough to get some “basic” stuff done)
>> 
>> The stuff that really kills me is all the other stuff …. simple stuff like 
>> cost of groceries and gasoline … electrical bills, property taxes etc…. 
>> income taxes
>> 
>> Quick breakdown for me (all averaged prices):
>> 
>> $800-$1000/month in automobile gasoline
>> $400/month for home/auto insurance
>> $500/month property taxes (includes water bill @ $100/month)
>> $300/month in highway tolls
>> $80/month for natural gas
>> $350/month for electricity
>> $60/month in bank fees
>> $300/month in cell phone bills (3 phones on plan)
>> $100/month for satellite TV
>> $120/month for Internet service (two providers)
>> $1200/month for food/drink
>> 
>> This is for family of 4 and doesn’t include any alcohol, entertainment 
>> (movies/dinners) etc… also doesn’t include mortgage if I had one etc…  
>> doesn’t include things like savings/retirement planning etc etc….
>> 
>> Total monthly of about $4400 for family of 4 and let’s add a mortgage of 
>> $1800/month and that would bring it to roughly $6,200 to live comfortably 
>> but not luxury by any means.  In my personal case I also have about 
>> $1300/month in car payments too ;)
>> 
>> To top it all off, 39% of my income immediately goes to various income 
>> related taxes
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 13, 2017, at 5:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net 
>>> <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Then I would have to defect to Canada…
>>> Seriously though, this is why it’s such a big issue in the USA.
>>> My middle class-hood is killing me here.
>>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]*On Behalf Of*Eric Kuhnke
>>> *Sent:*Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
>>> *To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>>> 
>>> $2100 a month for health insurance???
>>> 
>>> My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC 
>>> provincial health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.
>>> 
>>> I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health 
>>> insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.
>>> 
>>> It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Cana

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Bill Prince]

It's not free anywhere. It's just administered differently in different 
countries. And it is generally acknowledged that healthcare in the US is 
roughly double the cost of anywhere else in the first world. It is also 
generally acknowledged that healthcare in the US is not considered "the 
best" even though we pay so much more.


If that's the way you like it; vote for the status quo. If you don't 
like it, push for something better.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 1/14/2017 10:06 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:

I thought healthcare in Canada was free.

Paul Stewart wrote:

Canada isn’t all it’s cracked up to be neither …. ;)

the $2100/month for health insurance sounds like it’s a lot of parts 
involved though…. sounds more like a mixture of health coverage and 
benefits.


So in Canada, we have provincial and federal healthcare coverage 
which various from province to province.  I didn’t know until Eric 
mentioned it now about folks in BC having to pay out of their own 
pockets for provincial health care (a portion).


Ontario for example, where I live, and much like other provinces in 
Canada, have very high taxes in my opinion.  For me, here’s what I see:


healthcare coverage - included by province for “most” things… doctors 
visits, hospital coverage if needed (ward coverage only).  No out of 
pocket expenses, however a lot of doctors are fed up with the way 
they are being treated by the province and coming up with “nickel and 
dime” fees such as a $30/fee every time they need to write a 
prescription.  This varies wildly amongst areas and doctors offices.


Benefits coverage from my employer - upgrades your hospital stays to 
private room and covers a few more “corner cases” that province won’t 
cover.  Vision coverage of $200/year per household member 
(glasses/contacts etc).   100% of prescription drugs covered at zero 
cost (with some exceptions that I’ve never come across).  These 
benefits cost me zero as an employee but cost the company quite an 
amount - taking a guess of around $400-$600/month per employee.  
These benefits also include short term and long term disability 
coverage too…. massage therapy, chiropractor treatment etc… (all with 
limits though but enough to get some “basic” stuff done)


The stuff that really kills me is all the other stuff …. simple stuff 
like cost of groceries and gasoline … electrical bills, property 
taxes etc…. income taxes


Quick breakdown for me (all averaged prices):

$800-$1000/month in automobile gasoline
$400/month for home/auto insurance
$500/month property taxes (includes water bill @ $100/month)
$300/month in highway tolls
$80/month for natural gas
$350/month for electricity
$60/month in bank fees
$300/month in cell phone bills (3 phones on plan)
$100/month for satellite TV
$120/month for Internet service (two providers)
$1200/month for food/drink

This is for family of 4 and doesn’t include any alcohol, 
entertainment (movies/dinners) etc… also doesn’t include mortgage if 
I had one etc…  doesn’t include things like savings/retirement 
planning etc etc….


Total monthly of about $4400 for family of 4 and let’s add a mortgage 
of $1800/month and that would bring it to roughly $6,200 to live 
comfortably but not luxury by any means.  In my personal case I also 
have about $1300/month in car payments too ;)


To top it all off, 39% of my income immediately goes to various 
income related taxes


Paul


On Jan 13, 2017, at 5:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net 
<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:


Then I would have to defect to Canada…
Seriously though, this is why it’s such a big issue in the USA.
My middle class-hood is killing me here.
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]*On Behalf Of*Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:*Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

$2100 a month for health insurance???

My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC 
provincial health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.


I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for 
health insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.


It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, 
but if you consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up 
to your federal payroll deducations for US income tax, you may 
actually be paying a lot more in a year than I do. No matter what 
income bracket you're in.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:


I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median
gross salary for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the
only salary employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to th

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Nothing is free, anywhere. And healthcare is not a singularity, how many
nations have healthcare because they have little to no need for military?
How many have healthcare but a very low population of able bodied but idle
leeches. There is a lot more to healthcare than healthcare, and the US
doesn't have a fiscally responsible enough government to manage it.
I wish we would just wholey do away with income tax and go to a high
consumption tax, there is a lot of dough to be had in cracking dealers gold
chain purchases. If we had that people would probably find a government
funded system less and more palatable at the same time

On Jan 14, 2017 12:06 PM, "Jay Weekley" <par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:

I thought healthcare in Canada was free.

Paul Stewart wrote:

> Canada isn’t all it’s cracked up to be neither …. ;)
>
> the $2100/month for health insurance sounds like it’s a lot of parts
> involved though…. sounds more like a mixture of health coverage and
> benefits.
>
> So in Canada, we have provincial and federal healthcare coverage which
> various from province to province.  I didn’t know until Eric mentioned it
> now about folks in BC having to pay out of their own pockets for provincial
> health care (a portion).
>
> Ontario for example, where I live, and much like other provinces in
> Canada, have very high taxes in my opinion.  For me, here’s what I see:
>
> healthcare coverage - included by province for “most” things… doctors
> visits, hospital coverage if needed (ward coverage only).  No out of pocket
> expenses, however a lot of doctors are fed up with the way they are being
> treated by the province and coming up with “nickel and dime” fees such as a
> $30/fee every time they need to write a prescription.  This varies wildly
> amongst areas and doctors offices.
>
> Benefits coverage from my employer - upgrades your hospital stays to
> private room and covers a few more “corner cases” that province won’t
> cover.  Vision coverage of $200/year per household member (glasses/contacts
> etc).   100% of prescription drugs covered at zero cost (with some
> exceptions that I’ve never come across).  These benefits cost me zero as an
> employee but cost the company quite an amount - taking a guess of around
> $400-$600/month per employee.  These benefits also include short term and
> long term disability coverage too…. massage therapy, chiropractor treatment
> etc… (all with limits though but enough to get some “basic” stuff done)
>
> The stuff that really kills me is all the other stuff …. simple stuff like
> cost of groceries and gasoline … electrical bills, property taxes etc….
> income taxes
>
> Quick breakdown for me (all averaged prices):
>
> $800-$1000/month in automobile gasoline
> $400/month for home/auto insurance
> $500/month property taxes (includes water bill @ $100/month)
> $300/month in highway tolls
> $80/month for natural gas
> $350/month for electricity
> $60/month in bank fees
> $300/month in cell phone bills (3 phones on plan)
> $100/month for satellite TV
> $120/month for Internet service (two providers)
> $1200/month for food/drink
>
> This is for family of 4 and doesn’t include any alcohol, entertainment
> (movies/dinners) etc… also doesn’t include mortgage if I had one etc…
> doesn’t include things like savings/retirement planning etc etc….
>
> Total monthly of about $4400 for family of 4 and let’s add a mortgage of
> $1800/month and that would bring it to roughly $6,200 to live comfortably
> but not luxury by any means.  In my personal case I also have about
> $1300/month in car payments too ;)
>
> To top it all off, 39% of my income immediately goes to various income
> related taxes
>
> Paul
>
>
> On Jan 13, 2017, at 5:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net
>> <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Then I would have to defect to Canada…
>> Seriously though, this is why it’s such a big issue in the USA.
>> My middle class-hood is killing me here.
>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]*On Behalf Of*Eric Kuhnke
>> *Sent:*Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
>> *To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>>
>>
>> $2100 a month for health insurance???
>>
>> My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC
>> provincial health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.
>>
>> I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health
>> insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.
>>
>> It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if
>> you consider that $2100 as a "tax" on y

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Jay Weekley]

Hearing how the government runs ISPs makes me nervous about them running 
my healthcare.


Gino Villarini wrote:
I don�t understand why residents of the USA are so against a federal 
health system� seems to be working in most of the  advanced nations�


From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on 
behalf of "eric.kuh...@gmail.com <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>" 
<eric.kuh...@gmail.com <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com 
<mailto:af@afmug.com>>

Date: Friday, January 13, 2017 at 6:10 PM
To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com 
<mailto:af@afmug.com>>

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

$2100 a month for health insurance???

My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC 
provincial health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.


I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health 
insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.


It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but 
if you consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to 
your federal payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually 
be paying a lot more in a year than I do. No matter what income 
bracket you're in.


*//*

*/Gino Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:


I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median
gross salary for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the
only salary employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the
company, so I feel ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a
house payment of around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance
through IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for
my family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months
for a lot of the benefits :(
The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I
have medications that eat up most of that.

I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my
wife to make sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550
a month.

I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and
movies/date nights, at least that's what I came up to in December
so that might be a bit off.

I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the
panica everyone says it is, lol!

I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few
years ago.

I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if
everyone see things in a similar light?

Or am I just doing the wrong things?



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature>
Version: 2016.0.7996 / Virus Database: 4749/13764 - Release Date: 01/14/17

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Jay Weekley]

I thought healthcare in Canada was free.

Paul Stewart wrote:

Canada isn’t all it’s cracked up to be neither …. ;)

the $2100/month for health insurance sounds like it’s a lot of parts 
involved though…. sounds more like a mixture of health coverage and 
benefits.


So in Canada, we have provincial and federal healthcare coverage which 
various from province to province.  I didn’t know until Eric mentioned 
it now about folks in BC having to pay out of their own pockets for 
provincial health care (a portion).


Ontario for example, where I live, and much like other provinces in 
Canada, have very high taxes in my opinion.  For me, here’s what I see:


healthcare coverage - included by province for “most” things… doctors 
visits, hospital coverage if needed (ward coverage only).  No out of 
pocket expenses, however a lot of doctors are fed up with the way they 
are being treated by the province and coming up with “nickel and dime” 
fees such as a $30/fee every time they need to write a prescription. 
 This varies wildly amongst areas and doctors offices.


Benefits coverage from my employer - upgrades your hospital stays to 
private room and covers a few more “corner cases” that province won’t 
cover.  Vision coverage of $200/year per household member 
(glasses/contacts etc).   100% of prescription drugs covered at zero 
cost (with some exceptions that I’ve never come across).  These 
benefits cost me zero as an employee but cost the company quite an 
amount - taking a guess of around $400-$600/month per employee.  These 
benefits also include short term and long term disability coverage 
too…. massage therapy, chiropractor treatment etc… (all with limits 
though but enough to get some “basic” stuff done)


The stuff that really kills me is all the other stuff …. simple stuff 
like cost of groceries and gasoline … electrical bills, property taxes 
etc…. income taxes


Quick breakdown for me (all averaged prices):

$800-$1000/month in automobile gasoline
$400/month for home/auto insurance
$500/month property taxes (includes water bill @ $100/month)
$300/month in highway tolls
$80/month for natural gas
$350/month for electricity
$60/month in bank fees
$300/month in cell phone bills (3 phones on plan)
$100/month for satellite TV
$120/month for Internet service (two providers)
$1200/month for food/drink

This is for family of 4 and doesn’t include any alcohol, entertainment 
(movies/dinners) etc… also doesn’t include mortgage if I had one etc… 
 doesn’t include things like savings/retirement planning etc etc….


Total monthly of about $4400 for family of 4 and let’s add a mortgage 
of $1800/month and that would bring it to roughly $6,200 to live 
comfortably but not luxury by any means.  In my personal case I also 
have about $1300/month in car payments too ;)


To top it all off, 39% of my income immediately goes to various income 
related taxes


Paul


On Jan 13, 2017, at 5:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net 
<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:


Then I would have to defect to Canada…
Seriously though, this is why it’s such a big issue in the USA.
My middle class-hood is killing me here.
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]*On Behalf Of*Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:*Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

$2100 a month for health insurance???

My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC 
provincial health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.


I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for 
health insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.


It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but 
if you consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to 
your federal payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually 
be paying a lot more in a year than I do. No matter what income 
bracket you're in.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:


I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median
gross salary for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the
only salary employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the
company, so I feel ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a
house payment of around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance
through IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for
my family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months
for a lot of the benefits :(
The 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Chuck McCown]

YOLO

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 9:51 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

I am not shocked you couldn't get insurance after that Thanksgiving picture you 
took. 

On Jan 14, 2017 10:48 AM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  Yeah, I am too heavy with bad numbers.  The girl giving me the physical took 
my blood pressure three times to get it below some kind of threshold.  

  But my wife is such a good cook.

  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 9:38 AM
  To: Animal Farm 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

  I doubt it,  first I was about your age when I got it.  Second, when you 
start getting life insurance in those amounts you have to take a physical.  I 
suspect Travis also got his price for the same reasons I did.  
- term policy
- within just a few pounds of ideal weight
- ideal numbers on
  - blood pressure
  - cholesterol
  For those of you who have not had the true pressure of meeting Travis he is 
thin. I lost 15 pounds just so I could save money on my life insurance. Yes, I 
am that cheap.

  On Jan 14, 2017 9:01 AM, "Jerry Head" <li...@blountbroadband.com> wrote:

How did you get a $1,000,000.00 policy for $65.00/month?
I am 48 and cannot find prices that low anywhere.
Could it be a state vs. state issue?
TX vs. AL>

On 1/13/2017 2:07 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

  My life insurance is term, $1,000,000 and cost me $65 a month. I am 52. 
Health insurance for my family would be $1050 if I had kids on it and is an HSA 
with a $6500 deductible per insured I think. 

  Property is a drag if it isn't producing income. If it is it can be 
great, or at least it has been for me. I can say I have anything to complain 
about but I live even more spartan than you as far as accommodations. I think I 
only own 2 rent houses that aren't nicer than the one I live in.

  One thing I think is important in a recurring revenue model is making 
sure your pricing keeps pace with inflation. If you don't you make 10% less in 
3 years relatively speaking.

  On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:02 PM can...@believewireless.net 
<p...@believewireless.net> wrote:

While starting my ISP, I lived very frugally. No paid TV, only made 
enough to pay bills and make dinner.
Now, I'm reaping the rewards of putting all that money back into my 
company and taking a fat salary
and still putting money back into the company.

Compared to you, yes, I'm living "extravagantly" now. But if I average 
it out over the years, I'm still 
not making much on average. But, it's growing fast. Money does seem to 
go further for me and this
ISP thing seems like an ATM with money constantly rolling in. 

I don't work as much as I used to and have tons of free time. But, that 
was by design and why I 
decided to get into the recurring revenue business.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:23 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  God Bless freaking Obama Care!

  From: Sterling Jacobson 
  Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:12 AM
      To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

  I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances alone.



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Fabien
  Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
      To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living



  Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various 
insurance policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have a 
heart attack... I think it's a large part of the strain. 



  On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net> wrote:

I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median 
gross salary for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the 
only salary employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the 
company, so I feel ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a 
house payment of around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance 
through IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my 
family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the 
benefits :(
The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I 
have medications that eat up most of that.

I just upped my li

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Lewis Bergman]

I am not shocked you couldn't get insurance after that Thanksgiving picture
you took.

On Jan 14, 2017 10:48 AM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Yeah, I am too heavy with bad numbers.  The girl giving me the physical
> took my blood pressure three times to get it below some kind of threshold.
>
> But my wife is such a good cook.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 14, 2017 9:38 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
> I doubt it,  first I was about your age when I got it.  Second, when you
> start getting life insurance in those amounts you have to take a physical.
> I suspect Travis also got his price for the same reasons I did.
>   - term policy
>   - within just a few pounds of ideal weight
>   - ideal numbers on
> - blood pressure
> - cholesterol
> For those of you who have not had the true pressure of meeting Travis he
> is thin. I lost 15 pounds just so I could save money on my life insurance.
> Yes, I am that cheap.
>
> On Jan 14, 2017 9:01 AM, "Jerry Head" <li...@blountbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> How did you get a $1,000,000.00 policy for $65.00/month?
>> I am 48 and cannot find prices that low anywhere.
>> Could it be a state vs. state issue?
>> TX vs. AL>
>>
>> On 1/13/2017 2:07 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>
>> My life insurance is term, $1,000,000 and cost me $65 a month. I am 52.
>> Health insurance for my family would be $1050 if I had kids on it and is an
>> HSA with a $6500 deductible per insured I think.
>>
>> Property is a drag if it isn't producing income. If it is it can be
>> great, or at least it has been for me. I can say I have anything to
>> complain about but I live even more spartan than you as far as
>> accommodations. I think I only own 2 rent houses that aren't nicer than the
>> one I live in.
>>
>> One thing I think is important in a recurring revenue model is making
>> sure your pricing keeps pace with inflation. If you don't you make 10% less
>> in 3 years relatively speaking.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:02 PM can...@believewireless.net <
>> p...@believewireless.net> wrote:
>>
>>> While starting my ISP, I lived very frugally. No paid TV, only made
>>> enough to pay bills and make dinner.
>>> Now, I'm reaping the rewards of putting all that money back into my
>>> company and taking a fat salary
>>> and still putting money back into the company.
>>>
>>> Compared to you, yes, I'm living "extravagantly" now. But if I average
>>> it out over the years, I'm still
>>> not making much on average. But, it's growing fast. Money does seem to
>>> go further for me and this
>>> ISP thing seems like an ATM with money constantly rolling in.
>>>
>>> I don't work as much as I used to and have tons of free time. But, that
>>> was by design and why I
>>> decided to get into the recurring revenue business.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:23 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> God Bless freaking Obama Care!
>>>
>>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:12 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>>>
>>>
>>> I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances alone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chris Fabien
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various
>>> insurance policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have
>>> a heart attack... I think it's a large part of the strain.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson <
>>> sterl...@avative.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.
>>>
>>> Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross
>>> salary for my city.
>>>
>>> I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only
>>> salary employee of my startup ISP.
>>> I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so
>>> I feel ok with that.
>>>
>>> I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Lewis Bergman]

Life insurance is not an investment, it is a risk mitigation tool.  While
life is a bad investment in my opinion.  Take the extra  $2800 or so per
month and invest it yourself and I have always bet that I can do better.

On Jan 14, 2017 10:44 AM, "Jeremy" <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:

How did you get a $3,000,000 policy for $80 per month??  That must be term,
right?  I looked into a whole-life policy and $1,000,000 for me and
$500,000 for my wife will set me back about $3,000 per month.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Back from when I started Microserv in 1997, we always had company health
> insurance that was paid, for the entire family of every employee, 100% by
> the company.
>
> We still do that today with my commercial property business. I have 5
> employees, and we pay the entire health, dental and vision insurance for
> the employee and their entire family. Costs us $6,000/month for all 5. This
> is a $500 deductible with $30 co-pay through Blue Cross.
>
> I also have a $3,000,000 life insurance policy that is $80/month that I
> keep personally.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 1/13/2017 1:27 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I get half that coverage for twice that amount.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 1:07 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
> My life insurance is term, $1,000,000 and cost me $65 a month. I am 52.
> Health insurance for my family would be $1050 if I had kids on it and is an
> HSA with a $6500 deductible per insured I think.
>
> Property is a drag if it isn't producing income. If it is it can be great,
> or at least it has been for me. I can say I have anything to complain about
> but I live even more spartan than you as far as accommodations. I think I
> only own 2 rent houses that aren't nicer than the one I live in.
>
> One thing I think is important in a recurring revenue model is making sure
> your pricing keeps pace with inflation. If you don't you make 10% less in 3
> years relatively speaking.
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:02 PM can...@believewireless.net <
> p...@believewireless.net> wrote:
>
>> While starting my ISP, I lived very frugally. No paid TV, only made
>> enough to pay bills and make dinner.
>> Now, I'm reaping the rewards of putting all that money back into my
>> company and taking a fat salary
>> and still putting money back into the company.
>>
>> Compared to you, yes, I'm living "extravagantly" now. But if I average it
>> out over the years, I'm still
>> not making much on average. But, it's growing fast. Money does seem to go
>> further for me and this
>> ISP thing seems like an ATM with money constantly rolling in.
>>
>> I don't work as much as I used to and have tons of free time. But, that
>> was by design and why I
>> decided to get into the recurring revenue business.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:23 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>> God Bless freaking Obama Care!
>>
>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:12 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>>
>>
>> I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances alone.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chris Fabien
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>>
>>
>>
>> Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various
>> insurance policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have
>> a heart attack... I think it's a large part of the strain.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.
>>
>> Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross
>> salary for my city.
>>
>> I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only
>> salary employee of my startup ISP.
>> I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I
>> feel ok with that.
>>
>> I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.
>>
>> I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house
>> payment of around $1500 a month.
>>
>> But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.
>>
>> I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Chuck McCown]

Yeah, I am too heavy with bad numbers.  The girl giving me the physical took my 
blood pressure three times to get it below some kind of threshold.  

But my wife is such a good cook.

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 9:38 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

I doubt it,  first I was about your age when I got it.  Second, when you start 
getting life insurance in those amounts you have to take a physical.  I suspect 
Travis also got his price for the same reasons I did.  
  - term policy
  - within just a few pounds of ideal weight
  - ideal numbers on
- blood pressure
- cholesterol
For those of you who have not had the true pressure of meeting Travis he is 
thin. I lost 15 pounds just so I could save money on my life insurance. Yes, I 
am that cheap.

On Jan 14, 2017 9:01 AM, "Jerry Head" <li...@blountbroadband.com> wrote:

  How did you get a $1,000,000.00 policy for $65.00/month?
  I am 48 and cannot find prices that low anywhere.
  Could it be a state vs. state issue?
  TX vs. AL>

  On 1/13/2017 2:07 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

My life insurance is term, $1,000,000 and cost me $65 a month. I am 52. 
Health insurance for my family would be $1050 if I had kids on it and is an HSA 
with a $6500 deductible per insured I think. 

Property is a drag if it isn't producing income. If it is it can be great, 
or at least it has been for me. I can say I have anything to complain about but 
I live even more spartan than you as far as accommodations. I think I only own 
2 rent houses that aren't nicer than the one I live in.

One thing I think is important in a recurring revenue model is making sure 
your pricing keeps pace with inflation. If you don't you make 10% less in 3 
years relatively speaking.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:02 PM can...@believewireless.net 
<p...@believewireless.net> wrote:

  While starting my ISP, I lived very frugally. No paid TV, only made 
enough to pay bills and make dinner.
  Now, I'm reaping the rewards of putting all that money back into my 
company and taking a fat salary
  and still putting money back into the company.

  Compared to you, yes, I'm living "extravagantly" now. But if I average it 
out over the years, I'm still 
  not making much on average. But, it's growing fast. Money does seem to go 
further for me and this
  ISP thing seems like an ATM with money constantly rolling in. 

  I don't work as much as I used to and have tons of free time. But, that 
was by design and why I 
  decided to get into the recurring revenue business.

  On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:23 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

God Bless freaking Obama Care!

From: Sterling Jacobson 
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:12 AM
        To: af@afmug.com 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances alone.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Fabien
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
        To: af@afmug.com
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living



Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various 
insurance policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have a 
heart attack... I think it's a large part of the strain. 



On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net> wrote:

  I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

  Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median 
gross salary for my city.

  I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only 
salary employee of my startup ISP.
  I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, 
so I feel ok with that.

  I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

  I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house 
payment of around $1500 a month.

  But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

  I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through 
IHC.
  I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my 
family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the 
benefits :(
  The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have 
medications that eat up most of that.

  I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife 
to make sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.

  I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and 
movies/date nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might 
be a bit off.

  I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the 
panica everyone says it is, lol!

  I just 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Jeremy]

How did you get a $3,000,000 policy for $80 per month??  That must be term,
right?  I looked into a whole-life policy and $1,000,000 for me and
$500,000 for my wife will set me back about $3,000 per month.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Back from when I started Microserv in 1997, we always had company health
> insurance that was paid, for the entire family of every employee, 100% by
> the company.
>
> We still do that today with my commercial property business. I have 5
> employees, and we pay the entire health, dental and vision insurance for
> the employee and their entire family. Costs us $6,000/month for all 5. This
> is a $500 deductible with $30 co-pay through Blue Cross.
>
> I also have a $3,000,000 life insurance policy that is $80/month that I
> keep personally.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 1/13/2017 1:27 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I get half that coverage for twice that amount.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 1:07 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
> My life insurance is term, $1,000,000 and cost me $65 a month. I am 52.
> Health insurance for my family would be $1050 if I had kids on it and is an
> HSA with a $6500 deductible per insured I think.
>
> Property is a drag if it isn't producing income. If it is it can be great,
> or at least it has been for me. I can say I have anything to complain about
> but I live even more spartan than you as far as accommodations. I think I
> only own 2 rent houses that aren't nicer than the one I live in.
>
> One thing I think is important in a recurring revenue model is making sure
> your pricing keeps pace with inflation. If you don't you make 10% less in 3
> years relatively speaking.
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:02 PM can...@believewireless.net <
> p...@believewireless.net> wrote:
>
>> While starting my ISP, I lived very frugally. No paid TV, only made
>> enough to pay bills and make dinner.
>> Now, I'm reaping the rewards of putting all that money back into my
>> company and taking a fat salary
>> and still putting money back into the company.
>>
>> Compared to you, yes, I'm living "extravagantly" now. But if I average it
>> out over the years, I'm still
>> not making much on average. But, it's growing fast. Money does seem to go
>> further for me and this
>> ISP thing seems like an ATM with money constantly rolling in.
>>
>> I don't work as much as I used to and have tons of free time. But, that
>> was by design and why I
>> decided to get into the recurring revenue business.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:23 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>> God Bless freaking Obama Care!
>>
>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:12 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>>
>>
>> I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances alone.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chris Fabien
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>>
>>
>>
>> Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various
>> insurance policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have
>> a heart attack... I think it's a large part of the strain.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.
>>
>> Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross
>> salary for my city.
>>
>> I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only
>> salary employee of my startup ISP.
>> I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I
>> feel ok with that.
>>
>> I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.
>>
>> I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house
>> payment of around $1500 a month.
>>
>> But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.
>>
>> I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
>> I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my
>> family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of
>> the benefits :(
>> The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have
>> medications that eat up most of that.
>&

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Lewis Bergman]

I doubt it,  first I was about your age when I got it.  Second, when you
start getting life insurance in those amounts you have to take a physical.
I suspect Travis also got his price for the same reasons I did.
  - term policy
  - within just a few pounds of ideal weight
  - ideal numbers on
- blood pressure
- cholesterol
For those of you who have not had the true pressure of meeting Travis he is
thin. I lost 15 pounds just so I could save money on my life insurance.
Yes, I am that cheap.

On Jan 14, 2017 9:01 AM, "Jerry Head" <li...@blountbroadband.com> wrote:

> How did you get a $1,000,000.00 policy for $65.00/month?
> I am 48 and cannot find prices that low anywhere.
> Could it be a state vs. state issue?
> TX vs. AL>
>
> On 1/13/2017 2:07 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> My life insurance is term, $1,000,000 and cost me $65 a month. I am 52.
> Health insurance for my family would be $1050 if I had kids on it and is an
> HSA with a $6500 deductible per insured I think.
>
> Property is a drag if it isn't producing income. If it is it can be great,
> or at least it has been for me. I can say I have anything to complain about
> but I live even more spartan than you as far as accommodations. I think I
> only own 2 rent houses that aren't nicer than the one I live in.
>
> One thing I think is important in a recurring revenue model is making sure
> your pricing keeps pace with inflation. If you don't you make 10% less in 3
> years relatively speaking.
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:02 PM can...@believewireless.net <
> p...@believewireless.net> wrote:
>
>> While starting my ISP, I lived very frugally. No paid TV, only made
>> enough to pay bills and make dinner.
>> Now, I'm reaping the rewards of putting all that money back into my
>> company and taking a fat salary
>> and still putting money back into the company.
>>
>> Compared to you, yes, I'm living "extravagantly" now. But if I average it
>> out over the years, I'm still
>> not making much on average. But, it's growing fast. Money does seem to go
>> further for me and this
>> ISP thing seems like an ATM with money constantly rolling in.
>>
>> I don't work as much as I used to and have tons of free time. But, that
>> was by design and why I
>> decided to get into the recurring revenue business.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:23 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>> God Bless freaking Obama Care!
>>
>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:12 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>>
>>
>> I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances alone.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chris Fabien
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>>
>>
>>
>> Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various
>> insurance policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have
>> a heart attack... I think it's a large part of the strain.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.
>>
>> Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross
>> salary for my city.
>>
>> I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only
>> salary employee of my startup ISP.
>> I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I
>> feel ok with that.
>>
>> I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.
>>
>> I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house
>> payment of around $1500 a month.
>>
>> But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.
>>
>> I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
>> I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my
>> family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of
>> the benefits :(
>> The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have
>> medications that eat up most of that.
>>
>> I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to
>> make sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.
>>
>> I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date
>> nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a
>> bit off.
>>
>> I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica
>> everyone says it is, lol!
>>
>> I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.
>>
>> I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see
>> things in a similar light?
>>
>> Or am I just doing the wrong things?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Ken Hohhof]

Today’s Dilbert deals with the concept of fairness.

http://dilbert.com/strip/2017-01-14

 

Oh, and in a couple years, you Europeans will be in awe of the wonder that is … 
Trumpcare!  It will be way better, cover more people, and cost less too.  We 
will have the best healthcare.  Europe is overrated.  Sad.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Englhardt
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 9:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

 

Looks like they want to see poor people starving. There is the illusion that 
everybody has the same starting point in life and life is fair to everyone. 

A rich country should take care of their residents and this means health care 
for their poor people.

But oh you voted for a psychotic millonaire. So how to argue.

 

 

 

 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 

Von: Robert <i...@avantwireless.com <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > 

Datum: 14.01.17 15:47 (GMT+01:00) 

An: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living 

 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Stefan Englhardt]

Looks like they want to see poor people starving. There is the illusion that 
everybody has the same starting point in life and life is fair to everyone. A 
rich country should take care of their residents and this means health care for 
their poor people.But oh you voted for a psychotic millonaire. So how to argue.


 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> Datum: 
14.01.17  15:47  (GMT+01:00) An: af@afmug.com Betreff: 
Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Jerry Head]

How did you get a $1,000,000.00 policy for $65.00/month?
I am 48 and cannot find prices that low anywhere.
Could it be a state vs. state issue?
TX vs. AL>

On 1/13/2017 2:07 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
My life insurance is term, $1,000,000 and cost me $65 a month. I am 
52. Health insurance for my family would be $1050 if I had kids on it 
and is an HSA with a $6500 deductible per insured I think.


Property is a drag if it isn't producing income. If it is it can be 
great, or at least it has been for me. I can say I have anything to 
complain about but I live even more spartan than you as far as 
accommodations. I think I only own 2 rent houses that aren't nicer 
than the one I live in.


One thing I think is important in a recurring revenue model is making 
sure your pricing keeps pace with inflation. If you don't you make 10% 
less in 3 years relatively speaking.


On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:02 PM can...@believewireless.net 
<mailto:can...@believewireless.net> <p...@believewireless.net 
<mailto:p...@believewireless.net>> wrote:


While starting my ISP, I lived very frugally. No paid TV, only
made enough to pay bills and make dinner.
Now, I'm reaping the rewards of putting all that money back into
my company and taking a fat salary
and still putting money back into the company.

Compared to you, yes, I'm living "extravagantly" now. But if I
average it out over the years, I'm still
not making much on average. But, it's growing fast. Money does
seem to go further for me and this
ISP thing seems like an ATM with money constantly rolling in.

I don't work as much as I used to and have tons of free time. But,
that was by design and why I
decided to get into the recurring revenue business.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:23 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

God Bless freaking Obama Care!
*From:* Sterling Jacobson
*Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:12 AM
        *To:* af@afmug.com
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances
alone.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Chris Fabien
*Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our
various insurance policies, business stuff and personal,
because I am sure I'd have a heart attack... I think it's a
large part of the strain.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson
<sterl...@avative.net> wrote:

I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double
median gross salary for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles
as the only salary employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to
the company, so I feel ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001
with a house payment of around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health
insurance through IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a
month for my family, but since it's not company I have to
wait 6-12 months for a lot of the benefits :(
The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year
and I have medications that eat up most of that.

I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself
and my wife to make sure things don't go bad if I die,
that's around $550 a month.

I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries
and movies/date nights, at least that's what I came up to
in December so that might be a bit off.

I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's
not the panica everyone says it is, lol!

I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to
a few years ago.

I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if
everyone see things in a similar light?

Or am I just doing the wrong things?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Robert]

You confuse the US with an advance nation...

On 1/14/17 3:10 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

I don�t understand why residents of the USA are so against a federal
health system� seems to be working in most of the  advanced nations�

From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf
of "eric.kuh...@gmail.com <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>"
<eric.kuh...@gmail.com <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com
<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Friday, January 13, 2017 at 6:10 PM
To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com
<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

$2100 a month for health insurance???

My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC
provincial health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.

I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health
insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.

It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if
you consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your
federal payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be
paying a lot more in a year than I do. No matter what income bracket
you're in.

*//*

*/Gino Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net
<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:

I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median
gross salary for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the
only salary employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company,
so I feel ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house
payment of around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through
IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my
family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a
lot of the benefits :(
The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have
medications that eat up most of that.

I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife
to make sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.

I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and
movies/date nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so
that might be a bit off.

I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the
panica everyone says it is, lol!

I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few
years ago.

I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone
see things in a similar light?

Or am I just doing the wrong things?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Paul Stewart]

Canada isn’t all it’s cracked up to be neither …. ;)

the $2100/month for health insurance sounds like it’s a lot of parts involved 
though…. sounds more like a mixture of health coverage and benefits.

So in Canada, we have provincial and federal healthcare coverage which various 
from province to province.  I didn’t know until Eric mentioned it now about 
folks in BC having to pay out of their own pockets for provincial health care 
(a portion).

Ontario for example, where I live, and much like other provinces in Canada, 
have very high taxes in my opinion.  For me, here’s what I see:

healthcare coverage - included by province for “most” things… doctors visits, 
hospital coverage if needed (ward coverage only).  No out of pocket expenses, 
however a lot of doctors are fed up with the way they are being treated by the 
province and coming up with “nickel and dime” fees such as a $30/fee every time 
they need to write a prescription.  This varies wildly amongst areas and 
doctors offices.

Benefits coverage from my employer - upgrades your hospital stays to private 
room and covers a few more “corner cases” that province won’t cover.  Vision 
coverage of $200/year per household member (glasses/contacts etc).   100% of 
prescription drugs covered at zero cost (with some exceptions that I’ve never 
come across).  These benefits cost me zero as an employee but cost the company 
quite an amount - taking a guess of around $400-$600/month per employee.  These 
benefits also include short term and long term disability coverage too…. 
massage therapy, chiropractor treatment etc… (all with limits though but enough 
to get some “basic” stuff done)

The stuff that really kills me is all the other stuff …. simple stuff like cost 
of groceries and gasoline … electrical bills, property taxes etc…. income taxes

Quick breakdown for me (all averaged prices):

$800-$1000/month in automobile gasoline
$400/month for home/auto insurance
$500/month property taxes (includes water bill @ $100/month)
$300/month in highway tolls
$80/month for natural gas
$350/month for electricity
$60/month in bank fees
$300/month in cell phone bills (3 phones on plan)
$100/month for satellite TV
$120/month for Internet service (two providers)
$1200/month for food/drink

This is for family of 4 and doesn’t include any alcohol, entertainment 
(movies/dinners) etc… also doesn’t include mortgage if I had one etc…  doesn’t 
include things like savings/retirement planning etc etc…. 

Total monthly of about $4400 for family of 4 and let’s add a mortgage of 
$1800/month and that would bring it to roughly $6,200 to live comfortably but 
not luxury by any means.  In my personal case I also have about $1300/month in 
car payments too ;)

To top it all off, 39% of my income immediately goes to various income related 
taxes 

Paul


> On Jan 13, 2017, at 5:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> wrote:
> 
> Then I would have to defect to Canada…
>  
> Seriously though, this is why it’s such a big issue in the USA.
>  
> My middle class-hood is killing me here.
>  
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On 
> Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>  
> $2100 a month for health insurance???
> 
> My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC provincial 
> health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.
> 
> I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health 
> insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.
> 
> It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if you 
> consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your federal 
> payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be paying a lot more 
> in a year than I do. No matter what income bracket you're in.
>  
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net 
> <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
> I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.
> 
> Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross salary 
> for my city.
> 
> I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only salary 
> employee of my startup ISP.
> I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I 
> feel ok with that.
> 
> I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.
> 
> I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house payment 
> of around $1500 a month.
> 
> But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.
> 
> I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
> I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $10

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Lewis Bergman]

I guess that partially depends on your definition of working. Single payer
works well for most people for the most common issues and trends to fail
pretty badly for the exceptional.
I was part of a single provider system in the Marine Corps. I think one
should take part in that system, them tell me what you think. If you had a
bone dribbling out our were shot they were great.  Anything else and they
were useless. I have described the issues we had trying to get my asthmatic
son treatment. We eventually had to take him to a private practice provider
and pay for it ourselves. If the government runs all the healthcare where
do you go when that doesn't work?

On Jan 14, 2017 5:10 AM, "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com> wrote:

> I don’t understand why residents of the USA are so against a federal
> health system… seems to be working in most of the  advanced nations…
>
> From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of "eric.kuh...@gmail.com" <
> eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
> Date: Friday, January 13, 2017 at 6:10 PM
> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
> $2100 a month for health insurance???
>
> My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC
> provincial health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.
>
> I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health
> insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.
>
> It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if
> you consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your
> federal payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be paying a
> lot more in a year than I do. No matter what income bracket you're in.
>
>
>
> *Gino Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.
>>
>> Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross
>> salary for my city.
>>
>> I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only
>> salary employee of my startup ISP.
>> I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I
>> feel ok with that.
>>
>> I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.
>>
>> I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house
>> payment of around $1500 a month.
>>
>> But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.
>>
>> I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
>> I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my
>> family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of
>> the benefits :(
>> The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have
>> medications that eat up most of that.
>>
>> I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to
>> make sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.
>>
>> I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date
>> nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a
>> bit off.
>>
>> I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica
>> everyone says it is, lol!
>>
>> I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.
>>
>> I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see
>> things in a similar light?
>>
>> Or am I just doing the wrong things?
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Gino Villarini]

I don’t understand why residents of the USA are so against a federal health 
system… seems to be working in most of the  advanced nations…

From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of 
"eric.kuh...@gmail.com<mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>" 
<eric.kuh...@gmail.com<mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" 
<af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Friday, January 13, 2017 at 6:10 PM
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

$2100 a month for health insurance???

My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC provincial 
health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.

I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health 
insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.

It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if you 
consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your federal 
payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be paying a lot more in 
a year than I do. No matter what income bracket you're in.




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross salary 
for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only salary 
employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I feel 
ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house payment of 
around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my family, but 
since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the benefits :(
The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have 
medications that eat up most of that.

I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to make 
sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.

I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date 
nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a bit 
off.

I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica everyone 
says it is, lol!

I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.

I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see things 
in a similar light?

Or am I just doing the wrong things?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Chuck McCown]

I should have said Medicaid.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 4:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

That's my plan when I get a bit older.  That or a Glock.


On Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 4:13 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  You can always put all your assets in a trust controlled by  your kids, pay 
yourself minimum wage, have the company buy your meals, cars, fuel.  And then 
fly with no insurance.  Medicare will take care of you.  

  From: Eric Kuhnke 
  Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
  $2100 a month for health insurance???


  My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC provincial 
health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system. 


  I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health 
insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.


  It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if you 
consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your federal 
payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be paying a lot more in 
a year than I do. No matter what income bracket you're in.


  On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> 
wrote:

I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross 
salary for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only 
salary employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I 
feel ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house 
payment of around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my family, 
but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the benefits 
:(
The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have 
medications that eat up most of that.

I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to make 
sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.

I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date 
nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a bit 
off.

I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica 
everyone says it is, lol!

I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.

I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see 
things in a similar light?

Or am I just doing the wrong things?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Chuck McCown]

I have had to dig out of the hole several times.  Good job.  I know the feeling.

Consider that money tuition paid for valuable life lessons.  
Now, if you have not already done so, sign up to a credit score monitoring 
service and watch it like a hawk.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 4:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

I'm just hitting the upper side of lower middle class, having made the awful 
jump from upper lower class (I assume there is more appropriate terms but that 
jump is quite a shock) and finally eking through that I'm having a more 
positive outlook. Finally getting 3 years worth of raises with a back pay bonus 
doesn't hurt.  
I'm uninsurable for life insurance as a result of my duis  (something they 
should hammer into kids in their youth) so that cost isn't there, I have 
insurance for me and the kids, the old lady does too, so since we're aren't 
married the kids are super insured and it costs us very little since mine is 
fully employer paid, and assuming the naysayers are wrong, with the death of 
ACA  it will stay that way, I was looking at the possibility of lower coverage 
or picking of some of the financial burden next year due to the skyrocketing 
rates.
I've had one thing or another in collections since I was 20 (bad financial 
judgement doesn't mix with being a part time drunk) just got all that cleared 
up, owill have my last loan paid off next month so only a mortgage and a couple 
lightly used credit cards. 
Turned 39 today and this is my first birthday I wasn't petrified in almost a 
decade. In a position to actually build savings, with no major debt I have 
banks to fall back on in a distaster in the interim.
I think a lot of the outlook is fully dependent upon where in life one is, what 
their goals are and, frankly how bad they've fucked up historically. Dumping 
the last shovel full in the hole you dug gives you a pretty positive outlook. 
If you never had a hole, it's a satisfaction you won't know, though you'll be 
much further ahead. Me, I'm about 10 years behind schedule. But I have 2 family 
vacations I can attend this year, something 5 years ago wasn't even a joker in 
the cards. Give me five more years, my outlook won't be as positive because of 
some factor or another


On Jan 13, 2017 4:25 PM, "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net> wrote:

  Then I would have to defect to Canada…



  Seriously though, this is why it’s such a big issue in the USA.



  My middle class-hood is killing me here.



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
  Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living



  $2100 a month for health insurance???

  My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC provincial 
health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system. 

  I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health 
insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.

  It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if you 
consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your federal 
payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be paying a lot more in 
a year than I do. No matter what income bracket you're in.



  On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> 
wrote:

I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross 
salary for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only 
salary employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I 
feel ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house 
payment of around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my family, 
but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the benefits 
:(
The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have 
medications that eat up most of that.

I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to make 
sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.

I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date 
nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a bit 
off.

I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica 
everyone says it is, lol!

I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.

I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyon

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Ken Hohhof]

I read that people also give his wife business cards wanting to buy his cars 
after he dies.  Creepy.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:46 PM
To: Animal Farm <af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

 

Well, at least broke.  I find it difficult to believe he bought all those 
warehouses full of expensive cars without that tonight show money but I get 
your point. 

 

On Jan 13, 2017 6:28 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> 
> wrote:

I read that Jay Leno always worked two jobs and lived off whichever paid less 
and saved the money from the higher paid one.  So that he did 150 standup gigs 
a year while he was hosting the Tonight Show, and has never spend a dime of the 
Tonight Show money.  Just for the peace of mind knowing he would never be old 
and broke.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> ] On Behalf 
Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

 

Congrats on getting your head above water. Most people I know may bit have dug 
a hole but still started with nothing. When I was in the Corps and my daughter 
was born we had to eat tofu for 3 months because we couldn't afford to feed her 
and meat for us.  

You can really get ahead once you start making more by socking the extra away. 
I paid off my house in 3 years by not spending my extra income my wisp was 
starting to spin off. I still live in that same house for now.

I am very grateful as God and the WISP business has paid for 2 college 
educations and more than a few houses. What a great country where an idiot like 
me can be so fortunate. 

 

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 5:52 PM Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com> > wrote:

That's my plan when I get a bit older.  That or a Glock.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 4:13 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

You can always put all your assets in a trust controlled by  your kids, pay 
yourself minimum wage, have the company buy your meals, cars, fuel.  And then 
fly with no insurance.  Medicare will take care of you.  

 

From: Eric Kuhnke 

Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

$2100 a month for health insurance???

My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC provincial 
health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system. 

I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health 
insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.

It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if you 
consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your federal 
payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be paying a lot more in 
a year than I do. No matter what income bracket you're in.

 

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net 
<mailto:sterl...@avative.net> > wrote:

I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross salary 
for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only salary 
employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I feel 
ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house payment of 
around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my family, but 
since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the benefits :(
The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have 
medications that eat up most of that.

I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to make 
sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.

I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date 
nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a bit 
off.

I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica everyone 
says it is, lol!

I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.

I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see things 
in a similar light?

Or am I just doing the wrong things?

 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Lewis Bergman]

Well, at least broke.  I find it difficult to believe he bought all those
warehouses full of expensive cars without that tonight show money but I get
your point.

On Jan 13, 2017 6:28 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> I read that Jay Leno always worked two jobs and lived off whichever paid
> less and saved the money from the higher paid one.  So that he did 150
> standup gigs a year while he was hosting the Tonight Show, and has never
> spend a dime of the Tonight Show money.  Just for the peace of mind knowing
> he would never be old and broke.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 6:09 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
>
>
> Congrats on getting your head above water. Most people I know may bit have
> dug a hole but still started with nothing. When I was in the Corps and my
> daughter was born we had to eat tofu for 3 months because we couldn't
> afford to feed her and meat for us.
>
> You can really get ahead once you start making more by socking the extra
> away. I paid off my house in 3 years by not spending my extra income my
> wisp was starting to spin off. I still live in that same house for now.
>
> I am very grateful as God and the WISP business has paid for 2 college
> educations and more than a few houses. What a great country where an idiot
> like me can be so fortunate.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 5:52 PM Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> That's my plan when I get a bit older.  That or a Glock.
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 4:13 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> You can always put all your assets in a trust controlled by  your kids,
> pay yourself minimum wage, have the company buy your meals, cars, fuel.
> And then fly with no insurance.  Medicare will take care of you.
>
>
>
> *From:* Eric Kuhnke
>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
> $2100 a month for health insurance???
>
> My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC
> provincial health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.
>
> I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health
> insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.
>
> It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if
> you consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your
> federal payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be paying a
> lot more in a year than I do. No matter what income bracket you're in.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
> wrote:
>
> I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.
>
> Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross
> salary for my city.
>
> I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only
> salary employee of my startup ISP.
> I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I
> feel ok with that.
>
> I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.
>
> I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house
> payment of around $1500 a month.
>
> But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.
>
> I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
> I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my
> family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of
> the benefits :(
> The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have
> medications that eat up most of that.
>
> I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to
> make sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.
>
> I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date
> nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a
> bit off.
>
> I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica
> everyone says it is, lol!
>
> I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.
>
> I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see
> things in a similar light?
>
> Or am I just doing the wrong things?
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Ken Hohhof]

I read that Jay Leno always worked two jobs and lived off whichever paid less 
and saved the money from the higher paid one.  So that he did 150 standup gigs 
a year while he was hosting the Tonight Show, and has never spend a dime of the 
Tonight Show money.  Just for the peace of mind knowing he would never be old 
and broke.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

 

Congrats on getting your head above water. Most people I know may bit have dug 
a hole but still started with nothing. When I was in the Corps and my daughter 
was born we had to eat tofu for 3 months because we couldn't afford to feed her 
and meat for us.  

You can really get ahead once you start making more by socking the extra away. 
I paid off my house in 3 years by not spending my extra income my wisp was 
starting to spin off. I still live in that same house for now.

I am very grateful as God and the WISP business has paid for 2 college 
educations and more than a few houses. What a great country where an idiot like 
me can be so fortunate. 

 

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 5:52 PM Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com> > wrote:

That's my plan when I get a bit older.  That or a Glock.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 4:13 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

You can always put all your assets in a trust controlled by  your kids, pay 
yourself minimum wage, have the company buy your meals, cars, fuel.  And then 
fly with no insurance.  Medicare will take care of you.  

 

From: Eric Kuhnke 

Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

$2100 a month for health insurance???

My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC provincial 
health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system. 

I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health 
insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.

It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if you 
consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your federal 
payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be paying a lot more in 
a year than I do. No matter what income bracket you're in.

 

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net 
<mailto:sterl...@avative.net> > wrote:

I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross salary 
for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only salary 
employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I feel 
ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house payment of 
around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my family, but 
since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the benefits :(
The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have 
medications that eat up most of that.

I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to make 
sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.

I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date 
nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a bit 
off.

I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica everyone 
says it is, lol!

I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.

I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see things 
in a similar light?

Or am I just doing the wrong things?



 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Lewis Bergman]

Congrats on getting your head above water. Most people I know may bit have
dug a hole but still started with nothing. When I was in the Corps and my
daughter was born we had to eat tofu for 3 months because we couldn't
afford to feed her and meat for us.

You can really get ahead once you start making more by socking the extra
away. I paid off my house in 3 years by not spending my extra income my
wisp was starting to spin off. I still live in that same house for now.

I am very grateful as God and the WISP business has paid for 2 college
educations and more than a few houses. What a great country where an idiot
like me can be so fortunate.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 5:52 PM Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's my plan when I get a bit older.  That or a Glock.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 4:13 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

You can always put all your assets in a trust controlled by  your kids, pay
yourself minimum wage, have the company buy your meals, cars, fuel.  And
then fly with no insurance.  Medicare will take care of you.

*From:* Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
$2100 a month for health insurance???

My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC
provincial health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.

I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health
insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.

It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if
you consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your
federal payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be paying a
lot more in a year than I do. No matter what income bracket you're in.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
wrote:

I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross
salary for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only
salary employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I
feel ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house
payment of around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my family,
but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the
benefits :(
The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have
medications that eat up most of that.

I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to make
sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.

I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date
nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a
bit off.

I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica
everyone says it is, lol!

I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.

I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see
things in a similar light?

Or am I just doing the wrong things?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Lewis Bergman]

That's my plan when I get a bit older.  That or a Glock.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 4:13 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> You can always put all your assets in a trust controlled by  your kids,
> pay yourself minimum wage, have the company buy your meals, cars, fuel.
> And then fly with no insurance.  Medicare will take care of you.
>
> *From:* Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
> $2100 a month for health insurance???
>
> My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC
> provincial health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.
>
> I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health
> insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.
>
> It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if
> you consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your
> federal payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be paying a
> lot more in a year than I do. No matter what income bracket you're in.
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
> wrote:
>
> I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.
>
> Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross
> salary for my city.
>
> I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only
> salary employee of my startup ISP.
> I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I
> feel ok with that.
>
> I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.
>
> I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house
> payment of around $1500 a month.
>
> But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.
>
> I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
> I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my
> family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of
> the benefits :(
> The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have
> medications that eat up most of that.
>
> I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to
> make sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.
>
> I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date
> nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a
> bit off.
>
> I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica
> everyone says it is, lol!
>
> I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.
>
> I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see
> things in a similar light?
>
> Or am I just doing the wrong things?
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

I'm just hitting the upper side of lower middle class, having made the
awful jump from upper lower class (I assume there is more appropriate terms
but that jump is quite a shock) and finally eking through that I'm having a
more positive outlook. Finally getting 3 years worth of raises with a back
pay bonus doesn't hurt.
I'm uninsurable for life insurance as a result of my duis  (something they
should hammer into kids in their youth) so that cost isn't there, I have
insurance for me and the kids, the old lady does too, so since we're aren't
married the kids are super insured and it costs us very little since mine
is fully employer paid, and assuming the naysayers are wrong, with the
death of ACA  it will stay that way, I was looking at the possibility of
lower coverage or picking of some of the financial burden next year due to
the skyrocketing rates.
I've had one thing or another in collections since I was 20 (bad financial
judgement doesn't mix with being a part time drunk) just got all that
cleared up, owill have my last loan paid off next month so only a mortgage
and a couple lightly used credit cards.
Turned 39 today and this is my first birthday I wasn't petrified in almost
a decade. In a position to actually build savings, with no major debt I
have banks to fall back on in a distaster in the interim.
I think a lot of the outlook is fully dependent upon where in life one is,
what their goals are and, frankly how bad they've fucked up historically.
Dumping the last shovel full in the hole you dug gives you a pretty
positive outlook. If you never had a hole, it's a satisfaction you won't
know, though you'll be much further ahead. Me, I'm about 10 years behind
schedule. But I have 2 family vacations I can attend this year, something 5
years ago wasn't even a joker in the cards. Give me five more years, my
outlook won't be as positive because of some factor or another


On Jan 13, 2017 4:25 PM, "Sterling Jacobson" <sterl...@avative.net> wrote:

> Then I would have to defect to Canada…
>
>
>
> Seriously though, this is why it’s such a big issue in the USA.
>
>
>
> My middle class-hood is killing me here.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
>
>
> $2100 a month for health insurance???
>
> My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC
> provincial health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.
>
> I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health
> insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.
>
> It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if
> you consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your
> federal payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be paying a
> lot more in a year than I do. No matter what income bracket you're in.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
> wrote:
>
> I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.
>
> Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross
> salary for my city.
>
> I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only
> salary employee of my startup ISP.
> I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I
> feel ok with that.
>
> I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.
>
> I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house
> payment of around $1500 a month.
>
> But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.
>
> I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
> I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my
> family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of
> the benefits :(
> The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have
> medications that eat up most of that.
>
> I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to
> make sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.
>
> I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date
> nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a
> bit off.
>
> I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica
> everyone says it is, lol!
>
> I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.
>
> I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see
> things in a similar light?
>
> Or am I just doing the wrong things?
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Sterling Jacobson]

Then I would have to defect to Canada…

Seriously though, this is why it’s such a big issue in the USA.

My middle class-hood is killing me here.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

$2100 a month for health insurance???
My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC provincial 
health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.
I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health 
insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.
It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if you 
consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your federal 
payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be paying a lot more in 
a year than I do. No matter what income bracket you're in.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross salary 
for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only salary 
employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I feel 
ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house payment of 
around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my family, but 
since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the benefits :(
The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have 
medications that eat up most of that.

I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to make 
sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.

I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date 
nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a bit 
off.

I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica everyone 
says it is, lol!

I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.

I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see things 
in a similar light?

Or am I just doing the wrong things?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Sterling Jacobson]

Don’t tempt me Chuck! lol

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 3:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

You can always put all your assets in a trust controlled by  your kids, pay 
yourself minimum wage, have the company buy your meals, cars, fuel.  And then 
fly with no insurance.  Medicare will take care of you.

From: Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

$2100 a month for health insurance???
My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC provincial 
health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.
I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health 
insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.
It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if you 
consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your federal 
payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be paying a lot more in 
a year than I do. No matter what income bracket you're in.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross salary 
for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only salary 
employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I feel 
ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house payment of 
around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my family, but 
since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the benefits :(
The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have 
medications that eat up most of that.

I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to make 
sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.

I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date 
nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a bit 
off.

I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica everyone 
says it is, lol!

I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.

I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see things 
in a similar light?

Or am I just doing the wrong things?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[chuck]

You can always put all your assets in a trust controlled by  your kids, pay 
yourself minimum wage, have the company buy your meals, cars, fuel.  And then 
fly with no insurance.  Medicare will take care of you.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 3:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

$2100 a month for health insurance???


My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC provincial 
health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system. 


I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health 
insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.


It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if you 
consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your federal 
payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be paying a lot more in 
a year than I do. No matter what income bracket you're in.


On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> wrote:

  I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

  Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross salary 
for my city.

  I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only salary 
employee of my startup ISP.
  I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I 
feel ok with that.

  I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

  I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house payment 
of around $1500 a month.

  But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

  I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
  I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my family, 
but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the benefits 
:(
  The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have 
medications that eat up most of that.

  I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to make 
sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.

  I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date 
nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a bit 
off.

  I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica 
everyone says it is, lol!

  I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.

  I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see 
things in a similar light?

  Or am I just doing the wrong things?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Eric Kuhnke]

$2100 a month for health insurance???

My wife and I pay $150 Canadian a month for both of us for the BC
provincial health insurance...  Part of the federally funded system.

I cannot even fathom the idea of paying $500, $1000 or more for health
insurance for a family of 2 people, or 2 people + children, etc.

It's true that income taxes and other taxes are higher in Canada, but if
you consider that $2100 as a "tax" on your life and add it up to your
federal payroll deducations for US income tax, you may actually be paying a
lot more in a year than I do. No matter what income bracket you're in.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.
>
> Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross
> salary for my city.
>
> I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only
> salary employee of my startup ISP.
> I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I
> feel ok with that.
>
> I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.
>
> I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house
> payment of around $1500 a month.
>
> But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.
>
> I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
> I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my
> family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of
> the benefits :(
> The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have
> medications that eat up most of that.
>
> I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to
> make sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.
>
> I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date
> nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a
> bit off.
>
> I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica
> everyone says it is, lol!
>
> I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.
>
> I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see
> things in a similar light?
>
> Or am I just doing the wrong things?
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Lewis Bergman]

I thought we would loose a number of people when I raised our bottom tier
from $25 to $33. Out of the thousands that had it I got 8 phone calls and
nobody dropped. a number went to the next tier up as they difference wasn't
large in dollars but the bandwidth was. YMMV.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:53 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> > One thing I think is important in a recurring revenue model is making
> sure your pricing keeps pace with inflation. If you don't you make 10% less
> in 3 years relatively speaking.
>
>
>
> That’s tough when you are selling bandwidth.  People expect the service to
> expand and support all their new entertainment uses, but for the price to
> stay the same or go down.
>
>
>
> Of course cable bills go up every 6-12 months, but they blame that on
> content costs.  People are trained to believe content costs are rising, but
> Internet should just be a cheap, dumb pipe that makes the other stuff work.
>
>
>
> My prices have not increased for 13 years, but the peak BW usage per sub
> has increased about 20X in that time.  Also customer tolerance for outages
> has gone from a few days to a few minutes.  It used to be the occasional
> customer would say “I’m running a business here”, but now it’s “I’m
> watching a movie here” or “I’m playing a game here” and even a blip at 2am
> is the end of the freakin’ world for someone.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 2:07 PM
>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
>
>
> My life insurance is term, $1,000,000 and cost me $65 a month. I am 52.
> Health insurance for my family would be $1050 if I had kids on it and is an
> HSA with a $6500 deductible per insured I think.
>
>
>
> Property is a drag if it isn't producing income. If it is it can be great,
> or at least it has been for me. I can say I have anything to complain about
> but I live even more spartan than you as far as accommodations. I think I
> only own 2 rent houses that aren't nicer than the one I live in.
>
>
>
> One thing I think is important in a recurring revenue model is making sure
> your pricing keeps pace with inflation. If you don't you make 10% less in 3
> years relatively speaking.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:02 PM can...@believewireless.net <
> p...@believewireless.net> wrote:
>
> While starting my ISP, I lived very frugally. No paid TV, only made enough
> to pay bills and make dinner.
>
> Now, I'm reaping the rewards of putting all that money back into my
> company and taking a fat salary
>
> and still putting money back into the company.
>
>
>
> Compared to you, yes, I'm living "extravagantly" now. But if I average it
> out over the years, I'm still
>
> not making much on average. But, it's growing fast. Money does seem to go
> further for me and this
>
> ISP thing seems like an ATM with money constantly rolling in.
>
>
>
> I don't work as much as I used to and have tons of free time. But, that
> was by design and why I
>
> decided to get into the recurring revenue business.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:23 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> God Bless freaking Obama Care!
>
>
>
> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:12 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
>
>
> I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances alone.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
>
>
> Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various
> insurance policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have
> a heart attack... I think it's a large part of the strain.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
> wrote:
>
> I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.
>
> Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross
> salary for my city.
>
> I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only
> salary employee of my startup ISP.
> I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I
> feel ok with that.
>
> I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.
>
> I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house
> payment of around $1500 a month.
>
> But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.
>
&

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Lewis Bergman]

Find an aggressive builder you can get on a take down schedule with that
will put up a couple of specs. Activity breeds activity. Of course, the
location is important.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:41 PM Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
wrote:

> Interesting.
>
>
>
> There is probably a minimum with transferring health insurance costs to a
> company structure, but maybe there is something I can do there.
>
>
>
> Seems like I’m overpaying for my life and disability, but it is
> comprehensive and covers my wife some as well.
>
>
>
> I just need to find a way to reign in my insurance costs and I will be a
> lot better off.
>
>
>
> Oh, and sell my developed lots.
>
>
>
> Relators, are they really worth it?
>
>
>
> Seems like my last one sold half my lots that were all the cheapest ones,
> and didn’t really do much except list them on the MLS.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 1:35 PM
>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Back from when I started Microserv in 1997, we always had company health
> insurance that was paid, for the entire family of every employee, 100% by
> the company.
>
> We still do that today with my commercial property business. I have 5
> employees, and we pay the entire health, dental and vision insurance for
> the employee and their entire family. Costs us $6,000/month for all 5. This
> is a $500 deductible with $30 co-pay through Blue Cross.
>
> I also have a $3,000,000 life insurance policy that is $80/month that I
> keep personally.
>
> Travis
>
> On 1/13/2017 1:27 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I get half that coverage for twice that amount.
>
>
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 1:07 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
>
>
> My life insurance is term, $1,000,000 and cost me $65 a month. I am 52.
> Health insurance for my family would be $1050 if I had kids on it and is an
> HSA with a $6500 deductible per insured I think.
>
>
>
> Property is a drag if it isn't producing income. If it is it can be great,
> or at least it has been for me. I can say I have anything to complain about
> but I live even more spartan than you as far as accommodations. I think I
> only own 2 rent houses that aren't nicer than the one I live in.
>
>
>
> One thing I think is important in a recurring revenue model is making sure
> your pricing keeps pace with inflation. If you don't you make 10% less in 3
> years relatively speaking.
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:02 PM can...@believewireless.net <
> p...@believewireless.net> wrote:
>
> While starting my ISP, I lived very frugally. No paid TV, only made enough
> to pay bills and make dinner.
>
> Now, I'm reaping the rewards of putting all that money back into my
> company and taking a fat salary
>
> and still putting money back into the company.
>
>
>
> Compared to you, yes, I'm living "extravagantly" now. But if I average it
> out over the years, I'm still
>
> not making much on average. But, it's growing fast. Money does seem to go
> further for me and this
>
> ISP thing seems like an ATM with money constantly rolling in.
>
>
>
> I don't work as much as I used to and have tons of free time. But, that
> was by design and why I
>
> decided to get into the recurring revenue business.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:23 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> God Bless freaking Obama Care!
>
>
>
> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:12 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
>
>
> I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances alone.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
>
>
> Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various
> insurance policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have
> a heart attack... I think it's a large part of the strain.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
> wrote:
>
> I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.
>
> Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross
> salary for my city.
>
> I'm not saying I work double

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Ken Hohhof]

> One thing I think is important in a recurring revenue model is making sure 
> your pricing keeps pace with inflation. If you don't you make 10% less in 3 
> years relatively speaking.

 

That’s tough when you are selling bandwidth.  People expect the service to 
expand and support all their new entertainment uses, but for the price to stay 
the same or go down.

 

Of course cable bills go up every 6-12 months, but they blame that on content 
costs.  People are trained to believe content costs are rising, but Internet 
should just be a cheap, dumb pipe that makes the other stuff work.

 

My prices have not increased for 13 years, but the peak BW usage per sub has 
increased about 20X in that time.  Also customer tolerance for outages has gone 
from a few days to a few minutes.  It used to be the occasional customer would 
say “I’m running a business here”, but now it’s “I’m watching a movie here” or 
“I’m playing a game here” and even a blip at 2am is the end of the freakin’ 
world for someone.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 2:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

 

My life insurance is term, $1,000,000 and cost me $65 a month. I am 52. Health 
insurance for my family would be $1050 if I had kids on it and is an HSA with a 
$6500 deductible per insured I think.

 

Property is a drag if it isn't producing income. If it is it can be great, or 
at least it has been for me. I can say I have anything to complain about but I 
live even more spartan than you as far as accommodations. I think I only own 2 
rent houses that aren't nicer than the one I live in.

 

One thing I think is important in a recurring revenue model is making sure your 
pricing keeps pace with inflation. If you don't you make 10% less in 3 years 
relatively speaking.

 

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:02 PM can...@believewireless.net 
<mailto:can...@believewireless.net>  <p...@believewireless.net 
<mailto:p...@believewireless.net> > wrote:

While starting my ISP, I lived very frugally. No paid TV, only made enough to 
pay bills and make dinner.

Now, I'm reaping the rewards of putting all that money back into my company and 
taking a fat salary

and still putting money back into the company.

 

Compared to you, yes, I'm living "extravagantly" now. But if I average it out 
over the years, I'm still 

not making much on average. But, it's growing fast. Money does seem to go 
further for me and this

ISP thing seems like an ATM with money constantly rolling in. 

 

I don't work as much as I used to and have tons of free time. But, that was by 
design and why I 

decided to get into the recurring revenue business.

 

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:23 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

God Bless freaking Obama Care!

 

From: Sterling Jacobson 

Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:12 AM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

 

I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances alone.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> ] On Behalf 
Of Chris Fabien
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

 

Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various insurance 
policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have a heart 
attack... I think it's a large part of the strain. 

 

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net 
<mailto:sterl...@avative.net> > wrote:

I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross salary 
for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only salary 
employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I feel 
ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house payment of 
around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my family, but 
since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the benefits :(
The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have 
medications that eat up most of that.

I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to make 
sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.

I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date 
nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a bit 
off.

I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it'

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Sterling Jacobson]

Lewis, I like your idea of inflation model pricing for internet.

I’ve just noticed that a sweet spot of my demographic is around $50 a month.

So I set that as one of our rate plans.

I think I get more out of customers by creating a new rate plan with more 
bandwidth that they don’t ever use.

My current speculation is that if I create a $150 a month plan for 2.5 or 5Gbps 
service more than a few will buy it to have bragging rights.
But most will stick to our $50 or $70 plan.

None of the $70 plan people really use a 1Gbps internet, or even really more 
than the $50 people on average.
They just seem used to paying that much with Comcast so they chose that plan of 
ours because it’s similar pricing.

Very odd reasoning, but it definitely happens in my area.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 1:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

My life insurance is term, $1,000,000 and cost me $65 a month. I am 52. Health 
insurance for my family would be $1050 if I had kids on it and is an HSA with a 
$6500 deductible per insured I think.

Property is a drag if it isn't producing income. If it is it can be great, or 
at least it has been for me. I can say I have anything to complain about but I 
live even more spartan than you as far as accommodations. I think I only own 2 
rent houses that aren't nicer than the one I live in.

One thing I think is important in a recurring revenue model is making sure your 
pricing keeps pace with inflation. If you don't you make 10% less in 3 years 
relatively speaking.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:02 PM 
can...@believewireless.net<mailto:can...@believewireless.net> 
<p...@believewireless.net<mailto:p...@believewireless.net>> wrote:
While starting my ISP, I lived very frugally. No paid TV, only made enough to 
pay bills and make dinner.
Now, I'm reaping the rewards of putting all that money back into my company and 
taking a fat salary
and still putting money back into the company.

Compared to you, yes, I'm living "extravagantly" now. But if I average it out 
over the years, I'm still
not making much on average. But, it's growing fast. Money does seem to go 
further for me and this
ISP thing seems like an ATM with money constantly rolling in.

I don't work as much as I used to and have tons of free time. But, that was by 
design and why I
decided to get into the recurring revenue business.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:23 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
God Bless freaking Obama Care!

From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances alone.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Chris Fabien
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various insurance 
policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have a heart 
attack... I think it's a large part of the strain.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross salary 
for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only salary 
employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I feel 
ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house payment of 
around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my family, but 
since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the benefits :(
The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have 
medications that eat up most of that.

I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to make 
sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.

I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date 
nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a bit 
off.

I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica everyone 
says it is, lol!

I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.

I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see things 
in a similar light?

Or am I just doing the wrong things?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Sterling Jacobson]

Interesting.

There is probably a minimum with transferring health insurance costs to a 
company structure, but maybe there is something I can do there.

Seems like I’m overpaying for my life and disability, but it is comprehensive 
and covers my wife some as well.

I just need to find a way to reign in my insurance costs and I will be a lot 
better off.

Oh, and sell my developed lots.

Relators, are they really worth it?

Seems like my last one sold half my lots that were all the cheapest ones, and 
didn’t really do much except list them on the MLS.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 1:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

Hi,

Back from when I started Microserv in 1997, we always had company health 
insurance that was paid, for the entire family of every employee, 100% by the 
company.

We still do that today with my commercial property business. I have 5 
employees, and we pay the entire health, dental and vision insurance for the 
employee and their entire family. Costs us $6,000/month for all 5. This is a 
$500 deductible with $30 co-pay through Blue Cross.

I also have a $3,000,000 life insurance policy that is $80/month that I keep 
personally.

Travis

On 1/13/2017 1:27 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
I get half that coverage for twice that amount.

From: Lewis Bergman
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 1:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

My life insurance is term, $1,000,000 and cost me $65 a month. I am 52. Health 
insurance for my family would be $1050 if I had kids on it and is an HSA with a 
$6500 deductible per insured I think.

Property is a drag if it isn't producing income. If it is it can be great, or 
at least it has been for me. I can say I have anything to complain about but I 
live even more spartan than you as far as accommodations. I think I only own 2 
rent houses that aren't nicer than the one I live in.

One thing I think is important in a recurring revenue model is making sure your 
pricing keeps pace with inflation. If you don't you make 10% less in 3 years 
relatively speaking.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:02 PM 
can...@believewireless.net<mailto:can...@believewireless.net> 
<p...@believewireless.net<mailto:p...@believewireless.net>> wrote:
While starting my ISP, I lived very frugally. No paid TV, only made enough to 
pay bills and make dinner.
Now, I'm reaping the rewards of putting all that money back into my company and 
taking a fat salary
and still putting money back into the company.

Compared to you, yes, I'm living "extravagantly" now. But if I average it out 
over the years, I'm still
not making much on average. But, it's growing fast. Money does seem to go 
further for me and this
ISP thing seems like an ATM with money constantly rolling in.

I don't work as much as I used to and have tons of free time. But, that was by 
design and why I
decided to get into the recurring revenue business.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:23 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
God Bless freaking Obama Care!

From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances alone.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Fabien
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various insurance 
policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have a heart 
attack... I think it's a large part of the strain.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross salary 
for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only salary 
employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I feel 
ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house payment of 
around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my family, but 
since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the benefits :(
The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have 
medications that eat up most of that.

I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to make 
sure things don't go ba

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[chuck]

I get half that coverage for twice that amount.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 1:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

My life insurance is term, $1,000,000 and cost me $65 a month. I am 52. Health 
insurance for my family would be $1050 if I had kids on it and is an HSA with a 
$6500 deductible per insured I think. 

Property is a drag if it isn't producing income. If it is it can be great, or 
at least it has been for me. I can say I have anything to complain about but I 
live even more spartan than you as far as accommodations. I think I only own 2 
rent houses that aren't nicer than the one I live in.

One thing I think is important in a recurring revenue model is making sure your 
pricing keeps pace with inflation. If you don't you make 10% less in 3 years 
relatively speaking.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:02 PM can...@believewireless.net 
<p...@believewireless.net> wrote:

  While starting my ISP, I lived very frugally. No paid TV, only made enough to 
pay bills and make dinner.
  Now, I'm reaping the rewards of putting all that money back into my company 
and taking a fat salary
  and still putting money back into the company.

  Compared to you, yes, I'm living "extravagantly" now. But if I average it out 
over the years, I'm still 
  not making much on average. But, it's growing fast. Money does seem to go 
further for me and this
  ISP thing seems like an ATM with money constantly rolling in. 

  I don't work as much as I used to and have tons of free time. But, that was 
by design and why I 
  decided to get into the recurring revenue business.

  On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:23 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

God Bless freaking Obama Care!

From: Sterling Jacobson 
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances alone.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Fabien
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living



Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various insurance 
policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have a heart 
attack... I think it's a large part of the strain. 



On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> 
wrote:

  I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

  Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross 
salary for my city.

  I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only 
salary employee of my startup ISP.
  I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I 
feel ok with that.

  I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

  I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house 
payment of around $1500 a month.

  But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

  I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
  I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my 
family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the 
benefits :(
  The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have 
medications that eat up most of that.

  I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to 
make sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.

  I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date 
nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a bit 
off.

  I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica 
everyone says it is, lol!

  I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.

  I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see 
things in a similar light?

  Or am I just doing the wrong things?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Lewis Bergman]

My life insurance is term, $1,000,000 and cost me $65 a month. I am 52.
Health insurance for my family would be $1050 if I had kids on it and is an
HSA with a $6500 deductible per insured I think.

Property is a drag if it isn't producing income. If it is it can be great,
or at least it has been for me. I can say I have anything to complain about
but I live even more spartan than you as far as accommodations. I think I
only own 2 rent houses that aren't nicer than the one I live in.

One thing I think is important in a recurring revenue model is making sure
your pricing keeps pace with inflation. If you don't you make 10% less in 3
years relatively speaking.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:02 PM can...@believewireless.net <
p...@believewireless.net> wrote:

> While starting my ISP, I lived very frugally. No paid TV, only made enough
> to pay bills and make dinner.
> Now, I'm reaping the rewards of putting all that money back into my
> company and taking a fat salary
> and still putting money back into the company.
>
> Compared to you, yes, I'm living "extravagantly" now. But if I average it
> out over the years, I'm still
> not making much on average. But, it's growing fast. Money does seem to go
> further for me and this
> ISP thing seems like an ATM with money constantly rolling in.
>
> I don't work as much as I used to and have tons of free time. But, that
> was by design and why I
> decided to get into the recurring revenue business.
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:23 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> God Bless freaking Obama Care!
>
> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:12 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
>
> I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances alone.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
>
>
> Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various
> insurance policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have
> a heart attack... I think it's a large part of the strain.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
> wrote:
>
> I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.
>
> Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross
> salary for my city.
>
> I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only
> salary employee of my startup ISP.
> I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I
> feel ok with that.
>
> I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.
>
> I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house
> payment of around $1500 a month.
>
> But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.
>
> I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
> I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my
> family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of
> the benefits :(
> The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have
> medications that eat up most of that.
>
> I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to
> make sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.
>
> I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date
> nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a
> bit off.
>
> I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica
> everyone says it is, lol!
>
> I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.
>
> I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see
> things in a similar light?
>
> Or am I just doing the wrong things?
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[can...@believewireless.net]

While starting my ISP, I lived very frugally. No paid TV, only made enough
to pay bills and make dinner.
Now, I'm reaping the rewards of putting all that money back into my company
and taking a fat salary
and still putting money back into the company.

Compared to you, yes, I'm living "extravagantly" now. But if I average it
out over the years, I'm still
not making much on average. But, it's growing fast. Money does seem to go
further for me and this
ISP thing seems like an ATM with money constantly rolling in.

I don't work as much as I used to and have tons of free time. But, that was
by design and why I
decided to get into the recurring revenue business.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:23 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> God Bless freaking Obama Care!
>
> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:12 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
>
> I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances alone.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living
>
>
>
> Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various
> insurance policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have
> a heart attack... I think it's a large part of the strain.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
> wrote:
>
> I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.
>
> Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross
> salary for my city.
>
> I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only
> salary employee of my startup ISP.
> I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I
> feel ok with that.
>
> I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.
>
> I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house
> payment of around $1500 a month.
>
> But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.
>
> I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
> I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my
> family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of
> the benefits :(
> The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have
> medications that eat up most of that.
>
> I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to
> make sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.
>
> I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date
> nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a
> bit off.
>
> I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica
> everyone says it is, lol!
>
> I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.
>
> I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see
> things in a similar light?
>
> Or am I just doing the wrong things?
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[chuck]

God Bless freaking Obama Care!

From: Sterling Jacobson 
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances alone.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Fabien
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

 

Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various insurance 
policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have a heart 
attack... I think it's a large part of the strain. 

 

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> 
wrote:

  I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

  Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross salary 
for my city.

  I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only salary 
employee of my startup ISP.
  I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I 
feel ok with that.

  I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

  I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house payment 
of around $1500 a month.

  But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

  I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
  I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my family, 
but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the benefits 
:(
  The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have 
medications that eat up most of that.

  I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to make 
sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.

  I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date 
nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a bit 
off.

  I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica 
everyone says it is, lol!

  I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.

  I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see 
things in a similar light?

  Or am I just doing the wrong things?



 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Sterling Jacobson]

I could literally buy two more houses on my cost of insurances alone.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Fabien
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various insurance 
policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have a heart 
attack... I think it's a large part of the strain.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.

Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross salary 
for my city.

I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only salary 
employee of my startup ISP.
I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I feel 
ok with that.

I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.

I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house payment of 
around $1500 a month.

But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.

I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my family, but 
since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of the benefits :(
The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have 
medications that eat up most of that.

I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to make 
sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.

I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date 
nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a bit 
off.

I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica everyone 
says it is, lol!

I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.

I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see things 
in a similar light?

Or am I just doing the wrong things?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Chris Fabien]

Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various insurance
policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have a heart
attack... I think it's a large part of the strain.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.
>
> Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross
> salary for my city.
>
> I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only
> salary employee of my startup ISP.
> I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I
> feel ok with that.
>
> I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.
>
> I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house
> payment of around $1500 a month.
>
> But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.
>
> I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
> I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my
> family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of
> the benefits :(
> The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have
> medications that eat up most of that.
>
> I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to
> make sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.
>
> I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date
> nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a
> bit off.
>
> I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica
> everyone says it is, lol!
>
> I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.
>
> I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see
> things in a similar light?
>
> Or am I just doing the wrong things?
>
>
>