Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-09-13 Thread Brian Pancia
Doug put it best a few weeks back.  Leave base development mode for BMC and 
everything else in best practice mode.  Why the need to jump between modes? 9.9 
out of 10 times best practice mode will meet all your needs.  The other .1 is 
because BMC wants to make changes to their code in base mode.  There are ways 
to creatively use the different modes.  However, there are certain risks.  At 
the end of the day best practice mode and overlays are there as a huge benefit, 
so use that as an advantage.  Jumping between modes will just lead to a lot of 
issues.

Brian



From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) arslist@ARSLIST.ORG on 
behalf of Raj ravi6...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 5:05 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

**
Thanks everyone for their responses.

Spent quite some time reading on posts related to Overlays, BPCU, Developer 
Studio 7.6.04, etc...and trying to understand what all it means and implies.
Here's the situation I am in now(lil' confused), need some advise from experts 
in here:
As mentioned in the original post - [While running the upgrade installer to 
v7.6.04(from v7.1), we had to delete User and Group forms(without this step upg 
installer was failing) and installer recreated them again. During this process 
we lost customizations to User  Group form(s).]
-User form - recreated by Installer OOTB - converted to overlay - added custom 
fields...done.
-Customizations - We had some customizations around user onboarding process 
which uses Outer Join between SHR:People and User(SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser). 
It appeared to be that this form was part of OOTB Remedy in version 5 and in my 
company, we heavily used this form for customizations and created customer user 
onboarding process. But looks like in later versions on Remedy BMC dropped this 
join form.
In short, I am on ARS v7.6.04 with User, SHR:People and 
SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser as Overlays and some workflow which I had to modify 
and re-import/modify as Overlays.(Manually created overlays)

Based on the above info, I have couple of questions:
1. Upgrade to ARS v8.1. Is it ok to upgrade to ARS v8.1 with only the above 
listed forms/workflow as Overlays and rest all are still as Base(Customization 
Type - Unmodified). As BMC recommends to convert either into Overlays or Custom 
objects(Ideally). But read some posts where folks encountered issues while 
using BPCU and had to do manual rework later on. Basically, would like to avoid 
these issues and manual work and hence do not want to run BPCU/or convert into 
Overlays or Custom objects.
Did anyone had the same situation where only few objects you converted to 
Overlays  Custom but most you left to Base(Unmodified) and have gone through 
successful upgrade to ARS v8.1(or 8.0, etc)
2. Future Customizations: Now since I have mix of objects some are Overlays and 
most are still Base(Unmodified), how to decide to do custom development going 
forward. So e.g., If customization is needed later on - add some workflow to 
join form SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser(Overlaid) - it is not available in Base 
Development Mode(BD) so do I just do it in Best Practice Customization(BPC) 
Mode or convert it from Overlay to Base and go to BD mode and then do 
development. So,basically it is kind of challenge to juggle between Base 
Development Mode and Best Practice Customization mode to do development for a 
same feature.

Sorry for the long post, still trying to understand on Overlays...

Please advise.
Regards,
Raj
_ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_
DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this e-mail and its attachments 
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Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-09-13 Thread Longwing, Lj
One 'problem' with it would be if they at some point in the future decide
to install a newer version of ITSM...they would then have custom objects
with the same names as 'base' objectsbut I don't know enough to know if
this is a scenario that needs to be worried about or not.

I have seen many posts from people that essentially say 'I plan on staying
in base with my custom stuff, and not deal with all of that other overlay
stuff'...and that's cool, but they continue to put themselves in front of
the wrecking ball that BMC is trying to help all of us avoid by creating
this overlay mechanism.


On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Jason Miller jason.mil...@gmail.comwrote:

 **
 I agree.  I think what is a bit extra confusing in Raj's situation is they
 have a mix of Help Desk 5.6 and other custom development.  While HD 5.6 is
 technically BMC code at this point Raj's company pretty much owns it (maybe
 not legally but in practice) and might as well consider it custom.

 So where to draw the line?   SHR:People and SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser as
 mentioned are not AR System core forms but are from ITSM/Help Desk.  Since
 this is an environment you plan on having for a while (if I remember
 correctly), if it were me I would convert those to custom.

 The best course might be to do a fresh install of just AR System to get a
 current list of out of the box forms and workflow.  Any object that exists
 in that fresh system I would verify is base in your existing system.  If
 you customized something in the existing system and it exists in the fresh
 system verify it was done using overlays.  All objects that do not exist in
 the fresh system should be converted to custom.  That will get you synced
 up with how BMC expects an 8.x system to be layered.

 LJ, anybody else with overlay experience, does this sound about right?

 Jason


 On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Brian Pancia panc...@finityit.comwrote:

 **

 Doug put it best a few weeks back.  Leave base development mode for BMC
 and everything else in best practice mode.  Why the need to jump between
 modes? 9.9 out of 10 times best practice mode will meet all your needs.
 The other .1 is because BMC wants to make changes to their code in base
 mode.  There are ways to creatively use the different modes.  However,
 there are certain risks.  At the end of the day best practice mode and
 overlays are there as a huge benefit, so use that as an advantage.  Jumping
 between modes will just lead to a lot of issues.



 Brian



  --
 *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
 arslist@ARSLIST.ORG on behalf of Raj ravi6...@gmail.com
 *Sent:* Thursday, September 12, 2013 5:05 PM

 *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
 *Subject:* Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

  **
 Thanks everyone for their responses.

 Spent quite some time reading on posts related to Overlays, BPCU,
 Developer Studio 7.6.04, etc...and trying to understand what all it means
 and implies.
 Here's the situation I am in now(lil' confused), need some advise from
 experts in here:
 As mentioned in the original post - *[While running the upgrade
 installer to v7.6.04(from v7.1), we had to delete User and Group
 forms(without this step upg installer was failing) and installer recreated
 them again. During this process we lost customizations to User  Group
 form(s).]*
 -User form - recreated by Installer OOTB - converted to overlay - added
 custom fields...done.
  -Customizations - We had some customizations around user onboarding
 process which uses Outer Join between SHR:People and
 User(SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser). It appeared to be that this form was part
 of OOTB Remedy in version 5 and in my company, we heavily used this form
 for customizations and created customer user onboarding process. But looks
 like in later versions on Remedy BMC dropped this join form.
 In short, I am on ARS v7.6.04 with User, SHR:People and
 SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser as Overlays and some workflow which I had to
 modify and re-import/modify as Overlays.(Manually created overlays)

  Based on the above info, I have couple of questions:
 1. Upgrade to ARS v8.1. Is it ok to upgrade to ARS v8.1 with only the
 above listed forms/workflow as Overlays and rest all are still as
 Base(Customization Type - Unmodified). As BMC recommends to convert either
 into Overlays or Custom objects(Ideally). But read some posts where folks
 encountered issues while using BPCU and had to do manual rework later on.
 Basically, would like to avoid these issues and manual work and hence do
 not want to run BPCU/or convert into Overlays or Custom objects.
 Did anyone had the same situation where only few objects you converted to
 Overlays  Custom but most you left to Base(Unmodified) and have gone
 through successful upgrade to ARS v8.1(or 8.0, etc)
 2. Future Customizations: Now since I have mix of objects some are
 Overlays and most are still Base(Unmodified), how to decide to do custom
 development going forward. So

Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-09-13 Thread Jason Miller
I agree.  I think what is a bit extra confusing in Raj's situation is they
have a mix of Help Desk 5.6 and other custom development.  While HD 5.6 is
technically BMC code at this point Raj's company pretty much owns it (maybe
not legally but in practice) and might as well consider it custom.

So where to draw the line?   SHR:People and SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser as
mentioned are not AR System core forms but are from ITSM/Help Desk.  Since
this is an environment you plan on having for a while (if I remember
correctly), if it were me I would convert those to custom.

The best course might be to do a fresh install of just AR System to get a
current list of out of the box forms and workflow.  Any object that exists
in that fresh system I would verify is base in your existing system.  If
you customized something in the existing system and it exists in the fresh
system verify it was done using overlays.  All objects that do not exist in
the fresh system should be converted to custom.  That will get you synced
up with how BMC expects an 8.x system to be layered.

LJ, anybody else with overlay experience, does this sound about right?

Jason


On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Brian Pancia panc...@finityit.com wrote:

 **

 Doug put it best a few weeks back.  Leave base development mode for BMC
 and everything else in best practice mode.  Why the need to jump between
 modes? 9.9 out of 10 times best practice mode will meet all your needs.
 The other .1 is because BMC wants to make changes to their code in base
 mode.  There are ways to creatively use the different modes.  However,
 there are certain risks.  At the end of the day best practice mode and
 overlays are there as a huge benefit, so use that as an advantage.  Jumping
 between modes will just lead to a lot of issues.



 Brian



  --
 *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
 arslist@ARSLIST.ORG on behalf of Raj ravi6...@gmail.com
 *Sent:* Thursday, September 12, 2013 5:05 PM

 *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
 *Subject:* Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

  **
 Thanks everyone for their responses.

 Spent quite some time reading on posts related to Overlays, BPCU,
 Developer Studio 7.6.04, etc...and trying to understand what all it means
 and implies.
 Here's the situation I am in now(lil' confused), need some advise from
 experts in here:
 As mentioned in the original post - *[While running the upgrade installer
 to v7.6.04(from v7.1), we had to delete User and Group forms(without this
 step upg installer was failing) and installer recreated them again. During
 this process we lost customizations to User  Group form(s).]*
 -User form - recreated by Installer OOTB - converted to overlay - added
 custom fields...done.
  -Customizations - We had some customizations around user onboarding
 process which uses Outer Join between SHR:People and
 User(SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser). It appeared to be that this form was part
 of OOTB Remedy in version 5 and in my company, we heavily used this form
 for customizations and created customer user onboarding process. But looks
 like in later versions on Remedy BMC dropped this join form.
 In short, I am on ARS v7.6.04 with User, SHR:People and
 SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser as Overlays and some workflow which I had to
 modify and re-import/modify as Overlays.(Manually created overlays)

  Based on the above info, I have couple of questions:
 1. Upgrade to ARS v8.1. Is it ok to upgrade to ARS v8.1 with only the
 above listed forms/workflow as Overlays and rest all are still as
 Base(Customization Type - Unmodified). As BMC recommends to convert either
 into Overlays or Custom objects(Ideally). But read some posts where folks
 encountered issues while using BPCU and had to do manual rework later on.
 Basically, would like to avoid these issues and manual work and hence do
 not want to run BPCU/or convert into Overlays or Custom objects.
 Did anyone had the same situation where only few objects you converted to
 Overlays  Custom but most you left to Base(Unmodified) and have gone
 through successful upgrade to ARS v8.1(or 8.0, etc)
 2. Future Customizations: Now since I have mix of objects some are
 Overlays and most are still Base(Unmodified), how to decide to do custom
 development going forward. So e.g., If customization is needed later on -
 add some workflow to join form SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser(Overlaid) - it is
 not available in Base Development Mode(BD) so do I just do it in Best
 Practice Customization(BPC) Mode or convert it from Overlay to Base and go
 to BD mode and then do development. So,basically it is kind of challenge to
 juggle between Base Development Mode and Best Practice Customization mode
 to do development for a same feature.

  Sorry for the long post, still trying to understand on Overlays...

  Please advise.
 Regards,
 Raj
  _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_
  DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this e-mail and its attachments

Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-09-13 Thread Raj
LJ, Jason, Brian,
Understand you are recommending to convert my objects in Custom or Overlays.
But here's the challenge I have - may be my limited knowledge - pl excuse 
me for that.
Read some posts where folks mentioned that they initiated the conversion 
using BPCU but in some cases it didn't detect correctly and they ended up 
doing the manual re-import and fixes to get those features working 
correctly. I certainly would want to avoid that considering the time and 
resource constraint we have.
Here's one such thread I am refering to - 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/arslist/unmodified$20to$20custom$20or$20base/arslist/vw_xWirOBLI/1gmLDoErRpgJ

Yes, HD5.6 it pretty much of our own now. We have done so much heavy 
customizations on it. So, most likely may take an year or two to move away 
or even think about installing fresh ITSM and bring the customizations 
which we can't get away with. In short, I would like to avoid confusion 
here to upgrade HD 5.6. We are strictly looking into ARS upgrade for now. 
and HD5.6 we will treat it as home grown app due to heavy customizations.
 Now, coming on the situation I am yet on ARS 7.6.04 - 
Q1)so can I still try to run the upgrade installer(ARS to v8.1) with User, 
SHR:People, SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser and some workflow as overlays and 
rest as Base/UnModified? 
Other potential issue which Misi mentioned(
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/arslist/sUyE_aVBpd8)- If this is 
your only customizations, I suggest that you leave everything in base mode. 
It is not an option to make OVERLAYs of these only, you need to  make all 
you other stuff CUSTOM. Otherwise your own workflow will not be able to see 
the OVERLAY-stuff in User/Group.
Is it to go either fully Base Development Mode(leaving all objects intact 
as unmodified) or completely Best Practice Mode(Convert my objects into 
Overlays or Custom - but again want to avoid the manual work on 
Customizations ?)

Q2) Since I have already created some Overlays, can I just convert those 
Overlays back to Base again so they will become Unmodified if I decide to 
go with complete BASE DEVELOPMENT mode.then run upgrade install?

Q3) Does mixing modes and having a mix of objects Unmodified and Overlays / 
Custom could result in issue which Misi mentioned?( Workflow may not detect 
Overlay stuff?)

Please advise.




___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years


Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-09-13 Thread Jason Miller
I would agree if there was an upgrade path from Help Desk 5.6 to ITSM 8.x.
 There isn't and while it is probably possible I think the time and effort
to upgrade a version that old would be greater than building a new ITSM
environment, customizing as required and migrating data (or even better
starting with all new data).


On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Longwing, Lj llongw...@usgs.gov wrote:

 **
 One 'problem' with it would be if they at some point in the future decide
 to install a newer version of ITSM...they would then have custom objects
 with the same names as 'base' objectsbut I don't know enough to know if
 this is a scenario that needs to be worried about or not.

 I have seen many posts from people that essentially say 'I plan on staying
 in base with my custom stuff, and not deal with all of that other overlay
 stuff'...and that's cool, but they continue to put themselves in front of
 the wrecking ball that BMC is trying to help all of us avoid by creating
 this overlay mechanism.


 On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Jason Miller jason.mil...@gmail.comwrote:

 **
 I agree.  I think what is a bit extra confusing in Raj's situation is
 they have a mix of Help Desk 5.6 and other custom development.  While HD
 5.6 is technically BMC code at this point Raj's company pretty much owns it
 (maybe not legally but in practice) and might as well consider it custom.

 So where to draw the line?   SHR:People and SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser as
 mentioned are not AR System core forms but are from ITSM/Help Desk.  Since
 this is an environment you plan on having for a while (if I remember
 correctly), if it were me I would convert those to custom.

 The best course might be to do a fresh install of just AR System to get a
 current list of out of the box forms and workflow.  Any object that exists
 in that fresh system I would verify is base in your existing system.  If
 you customized something in the existing system and it exists in the fresh
 system verify it was done using overlays.  All objects that do not exist in
 the fresh system should be converted to custom.  That will get you synced
 up with how BMC expects an 8.x system to be layered.

 LJ, anybody else with overlay experience, does this sound about right?

 Jason


 On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Brian Pancia panc...@finityit.comwrote:

 **

 Doug put it best a few weeks back.  Leave base development mode for BMC
 and everything else in best practice mode.  Why the need to jump between
 modes? 9.9 out of 10 times best practice mode will meet all your needs.
 The other .1 is because BMC wants to make changes to their code in base
 mode.  There are ways to creatively use the different modes.  However,
 there are certain risks.  At the end of the day best practice mode and
 overlays are there as a huge benefit, so use that as an advantage.  Jumping
 between modes will just lead to a lot of issues.



 Brian



  --
 *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
 arslist@ARSLIST.ORG on behalf of Raj ravi6...@gmail.com
 *Sent:* Thursday, September 12, 2013 5:05 PM

 *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
 *Subject:* Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

  **
 Thanks everyone for their responses.

 Spent quite some time reading on posts related to Overlays, BPCU,
 Developer Studio 7.6.04, etc...and trying to understand what all it means
 and implies.
 Here's the situation I am in now(lil' confused), need some advise from
 experts in here:
 As mentioned in the original post - *[While running the upgrade
 installer to v7.6.04(from v7.1), we had to delete User and Group
 forms(without this step upg installer was failing) and installer recreated
 them again. During this process we lost customizations to User  Group
 form(s).]*
 -User form - recreated by Installer OOTB - converted to overlay - added
 custom fields...done.
  -Customizations - We had some customizations around user onboarding
 process which uses Outer Join between SHR:People and
 User(SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser). It appeared to be that this form was part
 of OOTB Remedy in version 5 and in my company, we heavily used this form
 for customizations and created customer user onboarding process. But looks
 like in later versions on Remedy BMC dropped this join form.
 In short, I am on ARS v7.6.04 with User, SHR:People and
 SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser as Overlays and some workflow which I had to
 modify and re-import/modify as Overlays.(Manually created overlays)

  Based on the above info, I have couple of questions:
 1. Upgrade to ARS v8.1. Is it ok to upgrade to ARS v8.1 with only the
 above listed forms/workflow as Overlays and rest all are still as
 Base(Customization Type - Unmodified). As BMC recommends to convert either
 into Overlays or Custom objects(Ideally). But read some posts where folks
 encountered issues while using BPCU and had to do manual rework later on.
 Basically, would like to avoid these issues and manual work and hence do
 not want to run BPCU

Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-09-13 Thread Brian Pancia
Upgrading ARS is pretty straight forward compared to the ITSM Suite.  You do 
have the ability to flatten/convert objects to base mode.  In 8.1 you can 
also convert unmodified to custom.  I posted about this awhile back.  There are 
some risks with this when patching.  If you create a custom form called FormA 
and BMC has a patch that now has a BMC FormA your form may be lost.  If you 
have good naming conventions this is more than likely not going to happen.  The 
good thing about ARS is you have the flexability to do whatever you want.  The 
bad things is you can do whatever you want.

In base mode you will not see your overlays and custom code.  That's what base 
mode is.  It allows you to see your base system without customizations, so you 
can't add a field to an form in Best Practice mode using overlays and then move 
to Base Mode and add that field to an active link.  You would have to be in 
Best Practice mode.  Mixing modes will probably lead to issues.  Hopefully, 
your systems are really well documented.

As far as using BPCU tool it's probably not the best approach if there is a 
huge gap in versions.  I would analyze all the customizations to see if you can 
replace them with out of box functionality and manually bring over the 
customizations you want.

Going fresh with ITSM isn't a bad idea.  Most organizations only implement a 
small set of features the ITSM Suite has to offer.  If organizations 
implemented 100% without customizations they would have a smokin system.  
Unless I'm doing integrations I try my best to stay away from customizations.  
I leave ITSM development to BMC and Third Party Vendors that have cool plugins. 
 Don't get me wrong I can develop with the best of them and some times it seems 
easier to customize/develop, but now I try to look at long term strategic 
decisions for the business.  I have seen more people get upset about the cost 
of upgrades then I have seen people upset that the ITSM Suite doesn't have abc 
functionality built in.




From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) arslist@ARSLIST.ORG on 
behalf of Raj ravi6...@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 3:21 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

**
LJ, Jason, Brian,
Understand you are recommending to convert my objects in Custom or Overlays.
But here's the challenge I have - may be my limited knowledge - pl excuse me 
for that.
Read some posts where folks mentioned that they initiated the conversion using 
BPCU but in some cases it didn't detect correctly and they ended up doing the 
manual re-import and fixes to get those features working correctly. I certainly 
would want to avoid that considering the time and resource constraint we have.
Here's one such thread I am refering to - 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/arslist/unmodified$20to$20custom$20or$20base/arslist/vw_xWirOBLI/1gmLDoErRpgJ

Yes, HD5.6 it pretty much of our own now. We have done so much heavy 
customizations on it. So, most likely may take an year or two to move away or 
even think about installing fresh ITSM and bring the customizations which we 
can't get away with. In short, I would like to avoid confusion here to upgrade 
HD 5.6. We are strictly looking into ARS upgrade for now. and HD5.6 we will 
treat it as home grown app due to heavy customizations.
 Now, coming on the situation I am yet on ARS 7.6.04 -
Q1)so can I still try to run the upgrade installer(ARS to v8.1) with User, 
SHR:People, SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser and some workflow as overlays and rest 
as Base/UnModified?
Other potential issue which Misi 
mentioned(https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/arslist/sUyE_aVBpd8)- If this 
is your only customizations, I suggest that you leave everything in base mode. 
It is not an option to make OVERLAYs of these only, you need to  make all you 
other stuff CUSTOM. Otherwise your own workflow will not be able to see the 
OVERLAY-stuff in User/Group.
Is it to go either fully Base Development Mode(leaving all objects intact as 
unmodified) or completely Best Practice Mode(Convert my objects into Overlays 
or Custom - but again want to avoid the manual work on Customizations ?)

Q2) Since I have already created some Overlays, can I just convert those 
Overlays back to Base again so they will become Unmodified if I decide to go 
with complete BASE DEVELOPMENT mode.then run upgrade install?

Q3) Does mixing modes and having a mix of objects Unmodified and Overlays / 
Custom could result in issue which Misi mentioned?( Workflow may not detect 
Overlay stuff?)

Please advise.



_ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_
DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this e-mail and its attachments 
contain confidential information belonging to the sender, which is legally 
privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) 
named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any

Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-09-12 Thread Raj
Thanks everyone for their responses. 

Spent quite some time reading on posts related to Overlays, BPCU, Developer 
Studio 7.6.04, etc...and trying to understand what all it means and implies.
Here's the situation I am in now(lil' confused), need some advise from 
experts in here:
As mentioned in the original post - *[While running the upgrade installer 
to v7.6.04(from v7.1), we had to delete User and Group forms(without this 
step upg installer was failing) and installer recreated them again. During 
this process we lost customizations to User  Group form(s).]*
-User form - recreated by Installer OOTB - converted to overlay - added 
custom fields...done.
-Customizations - We had some customizations around user onboarding process 
which uses Outer Join between SHR:People and 
User(SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser). It appeared to be that this form was part 
of OOTB Remedy in version 5 and in my company, we heavily used this form 
for customizations and created customer user onboarding process. But looks 
like in later versions on Remedy BMC dropped this join form.
In short, I am on ARS v7.6.04 with User, SHR:People and 
SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser as Overlays and some workflow which I had to 
modify and re-import/modify as Overlays.(Manually created overlays)

Based on the above info, I have couple of questions:
1. Upgrade to ARS v8.1. Is it ok to upgrade to ARS v8.1 with only the above 
listed forms/workflow as Overlays and rest all are still as 
Base(Customization Type - Unmodified). As BMC recommends to convert either 
into Overlays or Custom objects(Ideally). But read some posts where folks 
encountered issues while using BPCU and had to do manual rework later on. 
Basically, would like to avoid these issues and manual work and hence do 
not want to run BPCU/or convert into Overlays or Custom objects.
Did anyone had the same situation where only few objects you converted to 
Overlays  Custom but most you left to Base(Unmodified) and have gone 
through successful upgrade to ARS v8.1(or 8.0, etc)
2. Future Customizations: Now since I have mix of objects some are Overlays 
and most are still Base(Unmodified), how to decide to do custom development 
going forward. So e.g., If customization is needed later on - add some 
workflow to join form SHRCFG:OuterJoinPeopleUser(Overlaid) - it is not 
available in Base Development Mode(BD) so do I just do it in Best Practice 
Customization(BPC) Mode or convert it from Overlay to Base and go to BD 
mode and then do development. So,basically it is kind of challenge to 
juggle between Base Development Mode and Best Practice Customization mode 
to do development for a same feature.

Sorry for the long post, still trying to understand on Overlays...

Please advise.
Regards,
Raj

___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years


Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-08-29 Thread Pierson, Shawn
I'm using 8.1 in development (planning on upgrading my user testing server 
soon) and the WUT is as indispensable as ever.

Thanks,

Shawn Pierson
Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Rick Phillips
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 9:52 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

**
WUT 7.6.04 and 8.1, aye!  (especially for exporting data-all columns all rows).

rp
On 8/28/2013 3:15 PM, Jason Miller wrote:
**

  1.  Correct.  This really doesn't change with or without overlays.  This is 
the same as it has been since I started working with Remedy v4.

 *   SIDE NOTE:  This is also why I was very adamant on calling BS when a 
BMC person (or two) try to convince our organization that by using overlays 
customizations are now configurations.  The impact, maintenance, testing and 
documentation needs do not change with overlays.  Sure BMC code will not 
intentionally change your overlay or custom object like in the past when there 
was only one object layer but it all still has to work together.

  1.  There was an oversight in 7.6.04 Dev Studio where the option to convert 
from unmodified to custom was left out.  There is a thread from last year where 
Doug Mueller explained and gave some options.  I would think it has been added 
to 7.6.04 in a patch but if not my recommendation is to upgrade Dev Studio to 
8.1 since you will need to do that at some point.  You will then have the 
option to convert unmodified to custom before the server upgrade.
  2.  If I remember correctly the rapp service was called via run process. You 
could pull a full def file of the server (or multiple by object type) and 
search for 'rappsvc' in a text editor to find the objects that call it.  
Chances are since you don't have SLA there are probably only a handful of 
places that use it and you won't likely miss it.  I seem to remember there was 
one or two things about HD pre 6 that used it outside of SLA.
  3.  That sounds reasonable.  Open Windows was one of the most frequent uses 
for macros.  It has been so long since I have done this process that what you 
describe sounds familiar :)
  4.  Technically they are buttons but you will have to adjust how they are 
presented in the view.  If you create a Vertical Navigation field you can click 
Click here to attach orphaned items.  This will show your menu bar buttons.  
If you want to make them individual buttons without a Nav field I am pretty 
sure there is a way but can't completely remember right now.

 *   Ok, this was bugging me so I figured out how to do it (and it is super 
simple).  Select the menu field from the Outline list, under Display Properties 
change Display Type from Menu to Button.

  1.  The User Tool is not phased out for AR System 7.6.04, just ITSM 7.6.04.  
You can still use WUT with a 7.6.04 AR System Server and non-ITSM applications. 
 This configuration will be supported until 7.6.04 falls out of support.  This 
is why we are sticking with ARS 7.6.04 for our Help Desk/custom environment and 
not moving to ARS 8.x.  I am willing to be you will be fine with WUT 7.6.04 and 
AR System Server 8,1.  It is not a supported configuration but it will work.  
All of us who are using WUT 7.6.04 with 8.0/8.1 raise our hands.
.-.
|U|_
_   | |   /)
   (\  | |  / /
\ \ | | / / .-.
 \ \| |/ /.'`.'
  \ `' .'
.---. |   /
`--. `'   |
\ /
 |   |
 |   |


Jason

On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Ravi 
ravi6...@gmail.commailto:ravi6...@gmail.com wrote:
**
Thanks again! Jason. Really appreciate your help. You ROCK!!!

Based on your response, I have few more questions if you don't mind:
1. So, I assume for the Customizations I recreated on ARS v7.6.04, I just have 
to document them thoroughly and then the only way to identify issues  moving 
forward is to test thoroughly after upgrading to ARS v8.1 and at the same time 
referring to the customizations doc to make sure they were carried over.
2. Converting to Custom - when I ran upgrade from ARS v5.1.2 to 
v7.6.04(5.1.26.37.17.6.04) - noticed that all the custom apps/features we 
had in v5.1.2 were carried over to v7.6.04. Now, they appear as Unmodified 
Objects and when I right click on them, it only gives me an option to Convert 
to Overlay but not to Custom. Or do I just leave them as it is as Unmodified 
and then run upgrade to v8.1?(hope I won't lose all these custom apps/features)
3. RAPP Service - Is there a way to identify if we are using RAPP Service in 
our environment, I tried to look for form for e - SHR:Rapp..., etc but didn't 
find any. Basically we have only HD5.6(ITSM 5.6) and ARS5.1.2, no other ITSM 
apps like SLA App, etc - we have our own Custom SLA App.
4. Macros - we do have lot of ALs using Run Macro actions, so I understand they 
will need to be converted

Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-08-28 Thread Jason Miller
   1. Correct.  This really doesn't change with or without overlays.  This
   is the same as it has been since I started working with Remedy v4.
  - SIDE NOTE:  This is also why I was very adamant on calling BS when
  a BMC person (or two) try to convince our organization that by using
  overlays customizations are now configurations.  The impact, maintenance,
  testing and documentation needs do not change with overlays.
Sure BMC code
  will not intentionally change your overlay or custom object like in the
  past when there was only one object layer but it all still has to work
  together.
   2. There was an oversight in 7.6.04 Dev Studio where the option to
   convert from unmodified to custom was left out.  There is a thread from
   last year where Doug Mueller explained and gave some options.  I would
   think it has been added to 7.6.04 in a patch but if not my recommendation
   is to upgrade Dev Studio to 8.1 since you will need to do that at some
   point.  You will then have the option to convert unmodified to custom
   before the server upgrade.
   3. If I remember correctly the rapp service was called via run process.
   You could pull a full def file of the server (or multiple by object type)
   and search for 'rappsvc' in a text editor to find the objects that call it.
Chances are since you don't have SLA there are probably only a handful of
   places that use it and you won't likely miss it.  I seem to remember there
   was one or two things about HD pre 6 that used it outside of SLA.
   4. That sounds reasonable.  Open Windows was one of the most frequent
   uses for macros.  It has been so long since I have done this process that
   what you describe sounds familiar :)
   5. Technically they are buttons but you will have to adjust how they are
   presented in the view.  If you create a Vertical Navigation field you can
   click Click here to attach orphaned items.  This will show your menu bar
   buttons.  If you want to make them individual buttons without a Nav field I
   am pretty sure there is a way but can't completely remember right now.
  - Ok, this was bugging me so I figured out how to do it (and it is
  super simple).  Select the menu field from the Outline list,
under Display
  Properties change Display Type from Menu to Button.
   6. The User Tool is not phased out for AR System 7.6.04, just ITSM
   7.6.04.  You can still use WUT with a 7.6.04 AR System Server and non-ITSM
   applications.  This configuration will be supported until 7.6.04 falls out
   of support.  This is why we are sticking with ARS 7.6.04 for our Help
   Desk/custom environment and not moving to ARS 8.x.  I am willing to be you
   will be fine with WUT 7.6.04 and AR System Server 8,1.  It is not a
   supported configuration but it will work.  All of us who are using WUT
   7.6.04 with 8.0/8.1 raise our hands.

.-.

|U|_

_   | |   /)

   (\  | |  / /

\ \ | | / / .-.

 \ \| |/ /.'`.'

  \ `' .'

.---. |   /

`--. `'   |

\ /

 |   |

 |   |


Jason


On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Ravi ravi6...@gmail.com wrote:

 **
 Thanks again! Jason. Really appreciate your help. You ROCK!!!

 Based on your response, I have few more questions if you don't mind:
 1. So, I assume for the Customizations I recreated on ARS v7.6.04, I just
 have to document them thoroughly and then the only way to identify issues 
 moving forward is to test thoroughly after upgrading to ARS v8.1 and at the
 same time referring to the customizations doc to make sure they were
 carried over.
 2. Converting to Custom - when I ran upgrade from ARS v5.1.2 to
 v7.6.04(5.1.26.37.17.6.04) - noticed that all the custom apps/features
 we had in v5.1.2 were carried over to v7.6.04. Now, they appear as
 Unmodified Objects and when I right click on them, it only gives me an
 option to Convert to Overlay but not to Custom. Or do I just leave them
 as it is as Unmodified and then run upgrade to v8.1?(hope I won't lose all
 these custom apps/features)
 3. RAPP Service - Is there a way to identify if we are using RAPP Service
 in our environment, I tried to look for form for e - SHR:Rapp..., etc but
 didn't find any. Basically we have only HD5.6(ITSM 5.6) and ARS5.1.2, no
 other ITSM apps like SLA App, etc - we have our own Custom SLA App.
 4. Macros - we do have lot of ALs using Run Macro actions, so I understand
 they will need to be converted to AL. I see the option is available in
 Admin Tool v5.1. When I convert Macros into ALs, it created a new AL - Run
 Macro action is replaced with Open Window, etc...so do I DISABLE the old AL
 which had macro?
 5. Menu Bar- we do have lot of customizations around menu bar, so I
 understand I will need to create corresponding buttons and associate to
 them.
 6. MidTier vs User Tool - Will be going through the doc to identify and
 note down the 

Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-08-28 Thread Rick Phillips
WUT 7.6.04 and 8.1, aye!  (especially for exporting data-all columns all 
rows).


rp

On 8/28/2013 3:15 PM, Jason Miller wrote:

**

 1. Correct.  This really doesn't change with or without overlays.
 This is the same as it has been since I started working with
Remedy v4.
  * SIDE NOTE:  This is also why I was very adamant on calling BS
when a BMC person (or two) try to convince our organization
that by using overlays customizations are now configurations.
 The impact, maintenance, testing and documentation needs do
not change with overlays.  Sure BMC code will not
intentionally change your overlay or custom object like in the
past when there was only one object layer but it all still has
to work together.
 2. There was an oversight in 7.6.04 Dev Studio where the option to
convert from unmodified to custom was left out.  There is a thread
from last year where Doug Mueller explained and gave some options.
 I would think it has been added to 7.6.04 in a patch but if not
my recommendation is to upgrade Dev Studio to 8.1 since you will
need to do that at some point.  You will then have the option to
convert unmodified to custom before the server upgrade.
 3. If I remember correctly the rapp service was called via run
process. You could pull a full def file of the server (or multiple
by object type) and search for 'rappsvc' in a text editor to find
the objects that call it.  Chances are since you don't have SLA
there are probably only a handful of places that use it and you
won't likely miss it.  I seem to remember there was one or two
things about HD pre 6 that used it outside of SLA.
 4. That sounds reasonable.  Open Windows was one of the most frequent
uses for macros.  It has been so long since I have done this
process that what you describe sounds familiar :)
 5. Technically they are buttons but you will have to adjust how they
are presented in the view.  If you create a Vertical Navigation
field you can click Click here to attach orphaned items.  This
will show your menu bar buttons.  If you want to make them
individual buttons without a Nav field I am pretty sure there is a
way but can't completely remember right now.
  * Ok, this was bugging me so I figured out how to do it (and it
is super simple).  Select the menu field from the Outline
list, under Display Properties change Display Type from Menu
to Button.
 6. The User Tool is not phased out for AR System 7.6.04, just ITSM
7.6.04.  You can still use WUT with a 7.6.04 AR System Server and
non-ITSM applications.  This configuration will be supported until
7.6.04 falls out of support.  This is why we are sticking with ARS
7.6.04 for our Help Desk/custom environment and not moving to ARS
8.x.  I am willing to be you will be fine with WUT 7.6.04 and AR
System Server 8,1.  It is not a supported configuration but it
will work.  All of us who are using WUT 7.6.04 with 8.0/8.1 raise
our hands.

.-.

|U|_

_   | |   /)

   (\  | |  / /

\ \ | | / / .-.

 \ \| |/ /.'`.'

  \ `' .'

.---. |   /

`--. `'   |

\ /

 |   |

 |   |


Jason


On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Ravi ravi6...@gmail.com 
mailto:ravi6...@gmail.com wrote:


**
Thanks again! Jason. Really appreciate your help. You ROCK!!!

Based on your response, I have few more questions if you don't mind:
1. So, I assume for the Customizations I recreated on ARS v7.6.04,
I just have to document them thoroughly and then the only way to
identify issues  moving forward is to test thoroughly after
upgrading to ARS v8.1 and at the same time referring to the
customizations doc to make sure they were carried over.
2. Converting to Custom - when I ran upgrade from ARS v5.1.2 to
v7.6.04(5.1.26.37.17.6.04) - noticed that all the custom
apps/features we had in v5.1.2 were carried over to v7.6.04. Now,
they appear as Unmodified Objects and when I right click on them,
it only gives me an option to Convert to Overlay but not to
Custom. Or do I just leave them as it is as Unmodified and then
run upgrade to v8.1?(hope I won't lose all these custom apps/features)
3. RAPP Service - Is there a way to identify if we are 

Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-08-27 Thread Jason Miller
Hi everybody.  Raj and I discussed off line a little more and I would like
to share that for the benefit of everybody on the List.

**
Glad I can help.  It sounds like you are on the right track.

1. Your understanding is correct.  The one caveat is if you have a
customization that is dependant on a something that changes in Base mode
then it could affect your customization in the Overlay.  A few examples

   - If a field is deleted by the installer that your Overlay references.
Say the User form has field XYZ created by BMC and you have built custom
   workflow that references that field.  If BMC decides XYZ is no longer
   needed and removes it then it would impact your Overlay.  I have not
   encountered this scenario yet so I am not sure exactly what would happen.
I assume your workflow would just have a broken field reference in it and
   not work as expected.
   - A permissions change in Base.  Similar to the first bullet if BMC
   changes the permission to (configuration) form where you have custom
   workflow referencing it can impact how your Overlay/Custom workflow behaves.

2. Correct.   You never have to create an Overlay for anything.  In the
case of an old version of HelpDesk you will not be installing any further
BMC supplied updates to it so at this point I would consider it a custom
app that your organization is solely responsible for.  If your
organization's long-term path is to stay on HD 5.6 and continue to upgrade
ARS I recommend converting everything that was built in-house or that BMC
no longer supports to Custom.  This will make sure you stay aligned with
BMC's direction regarding how ARS development is supposed to be done.

One thing I know will break on a pre 6.0 HD app is the rapp service.  The
rapp service will not be able to connect to an AR Server = 6.0.  In my
past experiences we have found this to be acceptable because we were not
actively using workflow that uses the rapp services.  Pre 6.0 SLA app is
dependant on the rapp service as well as a few things in HD.  If you find
you do not need the rapp service you can disable any workflow that calls it.

3. There is a white paper that explains the differences between the User
Tool and Mid Tier.  I don't think there is an updated version of this
document for 8.x because that is when BMC dropped support for WUT.  I think
for the most part our existing forms would work fine in MT.  Some of our
form heavily use the Menu Bar (and the buttons that go with menus) on the
top of the form.  We would have to update our designs and move those
buttons to navigation fields or individual buttons.  This isn't too bad
because you can reassociate where/how the Menu Bar buttons are located.
 Besides the Menu Bar we would just need to review each form to make sure
it looks ok in a browser and verify the core functionality of a form.  I
occasionally open an old form in MT and it is minor things that don't work.
 Some of the forms would just have to save/search buttons or the web
toolbar added, etc.

Macros would be another thing you may have embedded in workflow that will
not work in MT.  Since our Help Desk is version 6 (which had MT access in
mind) and we stopped using macros in our custom development many, many
years ago this isn't an issue for us.  At one point there was a tool that
could convert Active Links that used macros into the appropriate actions.

Similar to macros we have a number of scripts (.bat, / .vbs) to automate
things that are called within the User Tool.  These will work differently
when called from a browser so we would probably have to make some changes
here.

Do you mind if I post this response to the ARSList?  I think there are
others that would find value in the answers?

Jason

On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Ravi ravi6...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Jason,
 Really, appreciate your response.
 Looks like your management is supporting well and is line with what
 you/your team intent to do.
 So in my case, we are still planning on upgrading ARS from v7.6.04 to v8.1
 - in that case :
 1. Best Practice Mode/Customization to Core forms - As you suggested and
 what I understood from other responses, I have created overlays and
 recreating customizations on overlays with the intent that these
 customizations will be carried over to v8.1 and I do not have to do the
 manual work of recreating Customizations again...is my understanding right?
 2. HD 5.6 - We do have heavy customizations on HelpDesk, since we not
 planning on upgrading ITSM anytime soon(as most likely we might just
 introduce OOTB ITSM and customize later on). So while on v7.6.04 - do I
 have to create overlay for HPD 5.6, I don't - right ? (as basically we are
 not even sure if this older ITSM HD5.6 would even be compatible with v8.1
 ARS and work but hoping that it will be functional, although we know that
 BMC is not going to support it).
 Also, if we were to customize HD 5.6 later after going to ARS v8.1 - do we
 just do it in Base 

Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-08-27 Thread Ravi
Thanks again! Jason. Really appreciate your help. You ROCK!!!

Based on your response, I have few more questions if you don't mind:
1. So, I assume for the Customizations I recreated on ARS v7.6.04, I just
have to document them thoroughly and then the only way to identify issues 
moving forward is to test thoroughly after upgrading to ARS v8.1 and at the
same time referring to the customizations doc to make sure they were
carried over.
2. Converting to Custom - when I ran upgrade from ARS v5.1.2 to
v7.6.04(5.1.26.37.17.6.04) - noticed that all the custom apps/features
we had in v5.1.2 were carried over to v7.6.04. Now, they appear as
Unmodified Objects and when I right click on them, it only gives me an
option to Convert to Overlay but not to Custom. Or do I just leave them
as it is as Unmodified and then run upgrade to v8.1?(hope I won't lose all
these custom apps/features)
3. RAPP Service - Is there a way to identify if we are using RAPP Service
in our environment, I tried to look for form for e - SHR:Rapp..., etc but
didn't find any. Basically we have only HD5.6(ITSM 5.6) and ARS5.1.2, no
other ITSM apps like SLA App, etc - we have our own Custom SLA App.
4. Macros - we do have lot of ALs using Run Macro actions, so I understand
they will need to be converted to AL. I see the option is available in
Admin Tool v5.1. When I convert Macros into ALs, it created a new AL - Run
Macro action is replaced with Open Window, etc...so do I DISABLE the old AL
which had macro?
5. Menu Bar- we do have lot of customizations around menu bar, so I
understand I will need to create corresponding buttons and associate to
them.
6. MidTier vs User Tool - Will be going through the doc to identify and
note down the important points. BMC phased out User Tool after v7.6.04 but
I have seen some posts - Susan, and other reported that User Tool(v7.6) is
still functional. Do you think, I can use that after going to v8.1?


On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Jason Miller jason.mil...@gmail.comwrote:

 **
 Hi everybody.  Raj and I discussed off line a little more and I would like
 to share that for the benefit of everybody on the List.

 **
 Glad I can help.  It sounds like you are on the right track.

 1. Your understanding is correct.  The one caveat is if you have a
 customization that is dependant on a something that changes in Base mode
 then it could affect your customization in the Overlay.  A few examples

- If a field is deleted by the installer that your Overlay references.
 Say the User form has field XYZ created by BMC and you have built custom
workflow that references that field.  If BMC decides XYZ is no longer
needed and removes it then it would impact your Overlay.  I have not
encountered this scenario yet so I am not sure exactly what would happen.
 I assume your workflow would just have a broken field reference in it and
not work as expected.
- A permissions change in Base.  Similar to the first bullet if BMC
changes the permission to (configuration) form where you have custom
workflow referencing it can impact how your Overlay/Custom workflow 
 behaves.

 2. Correct.   You never have to create an Overlay for anything.  In the
 case of an old version of HelpDesk you will not be installing any further
 BMC supplied updates to it so at this point I would consider it a custom
 app that your organization is solely responsible for.  If your
 organization's long-term path is to stay on HD 5.6 and continue to upgrade
 ARS I recommend converting everything that was built in-house or that BMC
 no longer supports to Custom.  This will make sure you stay aligned with
 BMC's direction regarding how ARS development is supposed to be done.

 One thing I know will break on a pre 6.0 HD app is the rapp service.  The
 rapp service will not be able to connect to an AR Server = 6.0.  In my
 past experiences we have found this to be acceptable because we were not
 actively using workflow that uses the rapp services.  Pre 6.0 SLA app is
 dependant on the rapp service as well as a few things in HD.  If you find
 you do not need the rapp service you can disable any workflow that calls it.

 3. There is a white paper that explains the differences between the User
 Tool and Mid Tier.  I don't think there is an updated version of this
 document for 8.x because that is when BMC dropped support for WUT.  I think
 for the most part our existing forms would work fine in MT.  Some of our
 form heavily use the Menu Bar (and the buttons that go with menus) on the
 top of the form.  We would have to update our designs and move those
 buttons to navigation fields or individual buttons.  This isn't too bad
 because you can reassociate where/how the Menu Bar buttons are located.
  Besides the Menu Bar we would just need to review each form to make sure
 it looks ok in a browser and verify the core functionality of a form.  I
 occasionally open an old form in MT and it is minor things that don't work.

Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-08-14 Thread Raj
For backward compatibility of our ITSM(HD 5.6) and existing customizations 
on User form, we analyzed and decided to create those Custom fields on 
newer version.
To do that what is the recommended approach - Do I have to create overlay 
for User form and then modify the overlay in Best Customization mode or I 
just go to Base Development mode and start adding the fields?
Also, at what step do I use BPCU(do I need to use it at all or I can skip 
it?)

___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years


Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-08-14 Thread Raj
For backward compatibility of our ITSM(HD 5.6) and existing customizations 
on User form, we analyzed and decided to create those Custom fields on 
newer version.
To do that what is the recommended approach - Do I have to create overlay 
for User form and then modify the overlay in Best Customization mode or I 
just go to Base Development mode and start adding the fields?
Also, at what step do I use BPCU(do I need to use it at all or I can skip 
it?)

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:47:17 AM UTC-7, Raj wrote:

 ** 
 Hi All,
 We are in the process of upgrading ARS from v5.1.2 to v8.1. We also have 
 HD v5.6 which at this point are not thinking of upgrading as we have heavy 
 customization. Now coming on to ARS, we also have some customizations on 
 our core forms.
 While running the upgrade installer to v7.6.04(from v7.1), we had to 
 delete User and Group forms(without this step upg installer was failing) 
 and installer recreated them again. During this process we lost 
 customizations to User  Group form(s).
 At this point, we are still re-visiting the customizations we have to the 
 core forms to see if we really need them.
 Based on the above scenarios I have couple of questions:
 1. Do we still need to run BPCU to convert pre-v7.6.04 objects into 
 overlays[as we are only upgrading ARS but not ITSM(HD)] ?
 2. What would overlays help us with in our scenario, as we have ARS +ITSM 
 (HD5.6 only) ?

 Thanks again,
 Raj
 _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_


___
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Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years


Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-08-14 Thread Hullule, Kiran
Best Approach:
Go to best practice customization mode
Create Form Overlay
Create View Overlay on which you have planned to update/add the fields
Create Field Overlay if modifying existing field,
 If not,
Add custom field that you need to


From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSLis
t) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Raj
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:52 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

**
For backward compatibility of our ITSM(HD 5.6) and existing customizations on 
User form, we analyzed and decided to create those Custom fields on newer 
version.
To do that what is the recommended approach - Do I have to create overlay for 
User form and then modify the overlay in Best Customization mode or I just go 
to Base Development mode and start adding the fields?
Also, at what step do I use BPCU(do I need to use it at all or I can skip it?)
_ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_

___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years


Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-08-14 Thread Jason Miller
Exactly what my recommendation would have been for core forms.

Regarding BPCU, it is designed for newer versions of ITSM (at least I don't
think it goes back to 5.x).  I don't see any value in your situation.  It
sounds like you know the handful of customizations to recreate on a handful
of core forms.  I would just create overlays manually.  Doing this to core
forms will allow patches and upgrade to go smoothly in the future.

About HD 5.6 is it so far out of support you basically own anything that
has been or will be done to it.  I do not see value in using overlays with
these old BMC apps.

We have Help Desk 6 that has been upgrade from AR 7.0 to 7.6.04 and we do
not use Best Practice mode with this environment.  Ideally we would convert
the customizations to core forms to overlays but we do not intend on
keeping this environment long-term.

Jason

On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 3:26 AM, Hullule, Kiran kiran_hull...@bmc.comwrote:

 **

 Best Approach:

 Go to best practice customization mode

 Create Form Overlay

 Create View Overlay on which you have planned to update/add the fields

 Create Field Overlay if modifying existing field, 

  If not,

 Add custom field that you need to

 ** **

 ** **

 *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSLis

 t) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Raj
 *Sent:* Wednesday, August 14, 2013 3:52 PM
 *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
 *Subject:* Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

 ** **

 ** 

 For backward compatibility of our ITSM(HD 5.6) and existing customizations
 on User form, we analyzed and decided to create those Custom fields on
 newer version.

 To do that what is the recommended approach - Do I have to create overlay
 for User form and then modify the overlay in Best Customization mode or I
 just go to Base Development mode and start adding the fields?

 Also, at what step do I use BPCU(do I need to use it at all or I can skip
 it?)

 _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_
 _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_


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Re: Using BPCU while ARS Upgrade?

2013-08-14 Thread Raj
Thanks Jason and Kiran. Your response clarified lot of things. 

We are currently focusing on ARS Upgrade only, so as upgrading our heavily 
customized HD 5.6 is a big challenge but eventually we will get there or we 
might just start fresh with newer Service Desk.

As you suggested, I am just going to manually create the overlays for core 
forms where we have customization.

Jason,
BTW, If my understanding it correct then you must have used the best 
practice mode only initially when you upgraded from ARS7.0 to ARS7.6.04 and 
that is again only to convert the core customized forms into overlays?
 On day to day basis you just used Development Mode but again when you have 
to customize your core forms again, do you switch modes and create overlays 
again? 
Also, if you would have created Custom Objects do you need to convert them 
into Base Objects if you were to upgrade to v8.1 or so...
Pl excuse my limited knowledge on Overlays.:-)

Thanks again!


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