Re: [AsburyPark] Re: To: Keady From: Asbury People
And I don't think his posrt implied that the people of Asbury are any different. Very few Cities of 17,000 people have the available expertise to put together such a huge development. I don't think Belmar or any of the neighboring towns would fare any better unless they searched and imported the necessary expertise. Even New York City must search for expertise when it launches unusually difficult and unique projects. Mark Tyler -Original Message- From: bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 02:22:29 - Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: To: Keady From: Asbury People --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Tyler, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim's post makes clear that he would go to Oprah for her expertise if he had a question on television or the pulse of America or any other thing she does day in and day out. Mark, his post also makes clear he won't go to the people of Asbury Park to decide what is best for Asbury Park. His list of thier shortcomings makes that clear, and that was my point (and his). I don't believe the people of Asbury Park are any different than anywhere else. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Deju vu (all over again)
Your point is well taken. The City sold/gave Asbury Partners the beach front sites because they wanted something done with them to move the City's revitalization forward as soon as possible. Asbury Partners has waited and will wait until the area is well under way and they can flip the properties or obtain financing easily. We didn't need Asbury Partners for that - we could have done that ourselves. By waiting they destroyed the entire benefit of the contract which was, in spirit and intent, time of the essence. I think that the City Council would have held on to the properties had they known that Asbury Partners intended to just sit on everything. Of course our city attorney could have put real time limits and reverter clauses and/or penalties in the agreements. -Original Message- From: Lighty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 31 May 2005 23:32:59 -0400 Subject: [AsburyPark] Deju vu (all over again) Asbury Park does not have sufficient debt capacity to bring even Convention Hall up to current standards, and we could do so only at the expense of our already tax-burdened residents. While we believed that Convention Hall alone needed from $8 to $12 million in repairs, a recent, more thorough inspection indicates that structural decay is considerably worse than anticipated. Without immediate repairs, that structure - along with the pavilions, the old heating plant, and the rapidly disintegrating Casino - will deteriorate well past the point of saving. -- Kate Mellina, MARCH 28, 2002 What is written above is why many of us sound negative on this board. The fact is that, for whatever reason, the Council put their faith in Asbury Partners to do the things that the City could not do. The City needed help because it was broke. The problem is that here we are three summers later and how much money do you think has been put into restoring Convention Hall? I would seriously doubt anything over $1 million. How much has been put into restoring the Casino? Or the Pavilions? If the plan is to wait until the residential occurs then the real plan is to wait until these structures are beyond repair. Redevelopment plans should not be set in stone. If things need to be changed, changes should be made. That is why we're speaking up. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: streets - stinkin’ suburbia splitting hairs - facts, damned facts
I agree that Asbury has the potential for the kind of ultrahigh-end, flagship shopping that you envision. Properly restored the Casino, CH, HoJos, Charms, Most of Cookman Ave., the Britwoods, etc. all could support that vision. (Keep in mind that those types of flagship stores often don't really make money. That's not their purpose.) But your vision is the complete other end from the plan you support. Why do you think the present plan, the individuals involved in financing the development, or the various government entities now having control, would ever dream of putting in that kind of investment? And I don't just mean monetary investment. Even the drawings and watercolors presented up to this point look extremely middle of the road. Why do you think, for example, that Wesley Lake development as planned could support your vision? Why is that development any different than recently built townhouses in Long Branch and Secaucus? -Original Message- From: bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 27 May 2005 03:18:14 - Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: streets - stinkin suburbia splitting hairs - facts, damned facts OceanChuck: I write for triCity. The first dispute I had with Asbury Partners was over the signatories to the redevelopment contract. After the crippling 10 year Carabetta bankruptcy, I didn't want to risk that again. For about 18 months we were promised MD Sass as our developer. They were easy enough to check out - a multi-Billion Dollar firm. Little chance of a bankruptcy there. When the contract was published (public had about 1 week to review) I was freaked that MD Sass was not a signatory. Only Asbury Partners LLC had the obligation of redevelopment. At that time, it appeared AP Partners had no assets (none were made public, anyway). Although MD Sass was a memeber of AP LLC, a member is only liable to the extent of thier investment. At that point, it wasn't clear that there was anything more invested in the LLC than the $150.00 filing fee. I published an article called I want my MD Sass! I noted that any assets Asbury Partners had were actually properties held in the names of about 8 other companies (Catfish Holdings, LLC, Smokefish Holdings, LLC, etc). I encouraged the council not to sign the contract unless the MD Sass group of companies would sign as obligors to the contract, since they couldn't possibly bankrupt all thier extensive holdings. Aaron countered in writing that Asbury Partners had assets because those 8 or so other companies were wholly owned subsidiaries of Asbury Partners. I countered that if a Parent Company files for Bankruptcy, the assets of the wholly owned subsidiaries are not part of the bankruptcy estate, so Asbury Partners could go Bankrupt and keep their properties. The night of the council meeting to approve the contract, I took the microphone and said I like the plan, but asked them not to sign unless the MD Sass group of companies signed on. Aaron said they actually asked, but MD Sass said no. The contract was approved. I will say now that the further along we get, the less likely or problematic a bankruptcy becomes. I think the issue is probably moot now because things look good and I believe Cherokee made a huge investment (why they needed that investment I couldn't tell you). Bankruptcy could have been a problem early on, but I think we are safe now. As for the second disagreement I had with them, well, I'm hesitant to say it on this board because you folks are going to tear me up on this one. New Jersey Boardwalks today have a hook that makes them year round attractions. AC obviously has gambling. Pt. Pleasant has an aquarium, Ocean City has theaters, etc. A 3 month tourist economy isn't going to work here, because Monmouth County isn't a tourist attraction anymore (Sea Bright, LB, Belmar have all gone from tourism to year round residential). Also, 3 month tourst boardwalks tend to create McJob type opportunites. So here is my idea for a year round hook - high end retail shopping. Magnificent shopping. People arn't going to come to the Ocean on a windy February day for popcorn and peanut stands. They will for shopping that is nicer than the the malls. Think Tiffany's on the Boardwalk, and the career opportunities it could make. [Side note: I'm an Asbury Parker that still resents what the Malls did to us years ago, so I would love some revenge on them]. Also, outside of Short Hills Mall so many miles away, there is now elegant shopping around here, and I think we can sustain it, with this being one of the richest counties in the country. Anyway, Larry made it a point to say that such high end shopping is not in the plans. If I know this board like I think I do, I have probably given many thier first reason to agree with Larry about something. Sorry this was so long. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, charlie leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: bluebishop82, i read
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: What's the Big Deal about Lights Anyway?
Thanks for reading the agreement and keeping track. -Original Message- From: dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 23 May 2005 00:50:20 - Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: What's the Big Deal about Lights Anyway? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Skip Bernstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As to the gazebos, with the dim witted negotiations council employed with The Fish; this reads like a face saving measure to make it appear the city would get `something' in exchange for gifting the triangle to their favorite son Larry. I'm back from a college commencement in Hartford. Yes Skip, the pissing match petered out (forgive the pun). Charlie, I think those are the same physical lights just stored and put back (am I right?). Skip, as to the above, don't beleive it. The gazebos, the meandering boardwalk, etc, are not value in exchange for the Triangle. Thhe sales agreement makes no mention of those items. The only place they are mentioned is in Amended and Restated Agreement. They are to be done in exchange for using an April 1, 2001 valuation date for the Triangle and Marine Grill Site. Loffredo tried to say we get these and other things (Casino restoration - when, where?). Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Bankruptcy Clause in Agreement
Tommy: Your position doesn't make sense to me based on a legal or business concerns. I have been on the government side of real estate law for about 10 years (with NYS, NYC and Roosevelt Island). Every sizeable development I have worked on resulted in mutiple litigations. None of those litigations stopped the developments and all reached substantial completion within 3 or 4 years. What you have here is development that is lagging behind that time standard without any litigation. So your concerns should probably be reversed as it appears litigation moves developments forward. In any event you know (as does any 1st year law student) that courts are reluctant to stop anything for more than a very short time. So my personal opinion is that you don't really believe a word you say yourself. Devil's advocacy is good only when it has a legitimate purpose. Why are you doing this? -Original Message- From: bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 21 May 2005 01:35:36 - Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Bankruptcy Clause in Agreement Nice backtrack. Now you're just projecting your lack of understanding on to me. My original post made no mention of the bankruptcy clause. It was your original post that tried to make it seem the redevelopment rights would stay clear of the bankruptcy court (that was the point of your post), which you clearly concede now that it won't. As for your assertion that the lawyers you work with aren't practicing in AP (as if that is beneath them), well, that's just you pointing out again your disdain for people from Asbury Park and this area in general, which is how we met in the first place, isn't it? As for you calling me an ambulance chaser, when my adversary has nothing left to retort with but name calling, that's when I know I've won the arguement. By the way, if you read that old triCity article, you will find I never called into question your abilities in your field. I wouldn't do that. I made the point that I thought you would have a conflict on one matter: valuing the triangle property, due to your comments about (and obvious feeling toward) the parties. Having a conflict on a case is not a knock against your abilities. I've been conflicted out of a number of cases for a variety of reasons. Oh, before I forget. There was a mistake of law in your question to Jim Aaron - Bankruptcy Court is a court of equity, not law. Look, you aren't outmatched in this conversation because law is my field. You're just outmatched by a guy from AP. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never said it was no good. I've read your bragging about the lawyers you deal with being the best there is. Go ask one of them what proceedings you could expect from creditors if this provision is triggered. Tom, there is always litigation, that's why there are lawyers. You're good at sound bites but short on proof as always. I hope you go into court with more than that. Say what you will but your original post made it seem as if the clause was not worth the paper it was written on. I am sure you are aware that any creditors would see the agreement and see that the city has a reverter clause. Also, creditors have the right to remedy any defaults but all have to be approved by the city. I will defer to you on bankruptcy law. Be sure that the attorneys I work with do not chase ambulances or practice in AP or Toms River. In the end you are right that there will be litigation, but litigation is not necessrily bad. Sometimes it is the only choice when one party to a contract will not perform. Your rationale says that one should not ask that party to perform as agreed to in the contract lest they litigate. That is my very early point about having a gun when they other guy knows you'll never pull the trigger. Do you know where that gun will land up? You'll need a proctologist to remove it. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Now back to the Poll !
You should do more of that. It would be more interesting than most of the banter. -Original Message- From: jerseyjohn99 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 21 May 2005 15:52:35 - Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Now back to the Poll ! I'd vote again, but 1 only get one vote between the 3 usernames that I use to argue back forth with myself! --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We are up to a huge (LOL) turn out of 18 votes on the boardwalk light poll. I was hopeing for at least 26 votes, a 10% turn out!! Come on you lurkers cast your anonymous vote and be part of the solution. The discussion this issue has generated is great, but I still see some folks commenting about what they like or would like. The question is, what is most appropriate. Stop and really think think about, this then go to the link and vote. I'm closing this poll on Sunday night and will post the results. We need 8 more votes, for 10% participation. Just go here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/surveys?id=1820345 Make your choice. Werner Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Supported Incumbents and Now Complain
Let's drop the election as the source of all discussion. Just because a majority opted to stay with the the devil they know doesn't mean they can't complain or even that they were satisfied with the incumbents in the first place. It's the road not taken now. -Original Message- From: dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 16 May 2005 03:41:01 - Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Supported Incumbents and Now Complain --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Skip Bernstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Waste not your script here, send your request to the attention of Sanders, Bruno Loffredo; when that doesn't work think about joining us. My exact point. It's a free country, so you can do whatever you like. But if you have a complaint, bring to those who have the power to change it, or rather, who are to blame, since you supported them. We long ago recognized the uselessness of trying to talk sense to them. Thus, I say, don't bring the complaints to us. You will soon tire of getting blank stares and being marginalized as you seek answers and changes from them and perhaps will start sounding like most of us. We tried to warn you all that this is the kind of thing you get from the incumbents. However, rehashed lights and cheap paint are the least of the problems. We tried to get people elected who would make changes for the good for AP and truly give the word progress its meaning. If you are happy with the progress over the past for years than you will like the next four as well because I assume you will see the same thing. I hope I am wrong, but I suspect tha in four years we will still be arguing about the conditions of the waterfront buildings, only then there will have been four more years of deterioration. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Atlantic and Belmont Hotels
Were the court cases reported or appealed? If so please let me know the names of the parties. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 12 May 2005 19:04:49 EDT Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] Atlantic and Belmont Hotels i have a friend living in the belmont for many years. the buildings were taken by emminent domain. the owner has been in court for many years trying to save her buildings. she lost. fishman got his way...as usual Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: ELECTION - brown bags full of money
Skip - Dan Give it at least one day of a chance. Jim Keady and Ed Johnson may see eye to eye - and may exert some influence - and change Asbury's direction. A watchdog group has been needed in this town for some time now and could also help Keady and Johnson. Let's be open to some possibilities here. -Original Message- From: Skip Bernstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 11 May 2005 05:14:44 - Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: ELECTION - brown bags full of money No Dan (and you'll get a kick out of this story), Garrett has insider info that RightAid came to the aid of the incumbents; apparently they, not The Fish, have been secretly delivering brown bags full of money to the Future Started Somewhere party. With the great job our independent papers have been doing, you can be assured you'll soon be reading all the grim details of this scandal. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, THANK GOD ITS OVER. THE RESULTS ARE IN! CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL THE WINNERS. OUR CITY IS SAFE FOR ANOTHER FOUR YEARS. GOOD LUCK TO ALL. I AM SURE YOU WILL CONTINUE TO LEAD OUR CITY IN THE RITE DIRECTION. Is that different from the RIGHT direction? Hopefully they will get the message, but I doubt it unless outside influence is exerted. A sad day for AP. Garrett Giberson Jr Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Thanks
I second that thanks. The candidates that took the time and money to help form a vision of what Asbury can be were as valuable in some cases as the candidates. Many of the points they made will still help to shape our future.-Original Message-From: Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.comSent: Wed, 11 May 2005 19:36:34 -Subject: [AsburyPark] Thanks A specail thanks to everyone you ran for City Council that didn't win.We had alot of people running.And also the people you volunter their time in working the polls. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: The Case of the Missing Voters
You have to use what's available or else do your own census or study. The other choice is to do neither and have absolutely no idea what's going on. Come on you want to try and adjust the stats and come up with a range - then go ahead. The exercise is still valid and important. -Original Message- From: bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 12 May 2005 02:07:34 - Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: The Case of the Missing Voters Good point, JJ. But do we have to use bad stats just because they do? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jerseyjohn99 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you use bad stats to justify Abbott district membership or Extraordinary Aid from the state for the 4th year in a row? What are the real stats and what would the city's demographics look like using these real stats compared to the other 30 Abbott districts? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Official stats that are outdated are as useless as unofficial stats. You were here in 2000 - those states are off, particularly property values and income levels. You also can't use bad stats and the excuse that its ok because you don't have access to the right ones. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: CHECKMATE!
Thanks for the well stated assessment. You clarified what I was feeling. (Just a little joke but I do agree)-Original Message-From: wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.comSent: Mon, 09 May 2005 14:29:57 -Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: CHECKMATE! --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seemed to me more an impassioned response to constant carping. That'll beat specious reasoning any day. The greatest divide I have seen in the past four years has been between the following admittedly oversimplified groups: Type A - Those who have no experiance in the deciplines needed to evaluate if the redevelopment process and decisions have been in the best interests on the City. Driven primarily by being part of the in crowd and happy to see any movement perceived as positive no matter what it may be. Ready to repeat the catch phrases of progress to remain in good standing with the in crowd. Rarely if ever attend Council, Planning Board, Zoning Board, and other public meetings. Type B - Those who have a background in planning, law, zoning, history, preservation, urban redevelopment or are at least willing to learn about them or have long term knowledge about Asbury Park. Driven primarily by seeking out the facts about the redevelopment and its effect on the community and wanting to settle for nothing less than the best decisions. Unconcerned about being accepted by the in crowd and participates in public meetings. In the Myers-Briggs type of personality profiles these two groups would most probably score at opposite ends of the spectrum. In general more people are driven by "feelings" than there are people driven by "logic". The feeling types, A in my example above, will tend to gravitate toward a common position that re-enforces the group. The B types above will tend to question and challange information in the search for the facts. This leads to discourse that inhibits the formation of a larger group B collective. The bottom line is that there are too many "feelers" in Asbury Park and not enough "thinkers" and that has had serious adverse consequences to the long term future of this City. (Just some more specious observations) Or are they ?? Werner Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Jersey Urban Renewal, LLC v. City of Asbury Park, 2005 N.J. Super . LEXIS 143
Do you know for a fact that Rich is the owner? I can't understand why Fernicola brought the action if they didn't try for the approvals first. Even if I felt I had a case without them I'd still try and push the process forward. -Original Message- From: dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 07 May 2005 02:32:47 - Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Jersey Urban Renewal, LLC v. City of Asbury Park, 2005 N.J. Super . LEXIS 143 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Tyler, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Plan. The property owner tried to force Planning Board review through the legal action. The Court held that the owner must obtain the required approvals. The case appears to be somewhat unripe so I can't say with certainty what it means for future landowners who try to develop. It's not clear whether the owner attempted to get the required reviews or assumed they would be denied. Mark, as you know,a property owner must exhaust all possible remedies before bringing an action, such as inverse condemnation. Thus, Rich must attempt to get approvals and show that they hae been denied before he asks the court to intercede. It is not enough to say that they would not be approved. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Digest Number 1248
Right you are but the first question is: what are they doing on the work-up? The second question is: how low or high is it? And the third is: what are the legal ramifications? Things inquiring minds want to know. -Original Message- From: dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 07 May 2005 02:37:32 - Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Digest Number 1248 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Tyler, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't know the answer to the permissible question. But a more global projection is not exactly reassuring. I find it hard to believe that there isn't a more exact work-up. Do you know whether the City tax figure is net or before the abatement? Well, if they are using that figure ($8,000) it better be after the exemption. This was the point of my posts many months ago that the abatement agreement indicates that the sales price is the basis of the assessment. The abatement is okay then as long as the assessments on existing homes are not cranked up to recent sales prices. Remember that conversation Mark about the unconstitutionality of assessing at sale prices? Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: live and let live - what is the destination
I didn't say that all gay people in town support the present Council. I was explaining, to the best of my ability, why a largely gay political action committee supported the present Council. Regarding John Lofreddo (or Loffredo - I've seen it both ways) specifically, he seems to inspire strongly mixed reactions among both gay and straight people in town. I don't think we have gone beyond tribalism. I think we are tribal by nature and that won't ever change. How we define the tribe can change. Those of us who feel more comfortable with more open definitions search those places out. Even more conservative types search out those places when they want to have fun. Right here, right now, there are divisions in Asbury Park based on like kind affinity which seems to correlate to different aspirations for the future. This election will probably make those divisions and differences very clear. -Original Message- From: Skip Bernstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 14:57:28 - Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: live and let live - what is the destination stereotypical process. But places like San Francisco, Key West, Miami are more fun and more profitable. These places have no problem mixing the populations. And the retention of the gay community has been integral to retaining the entertainment value of those locations. But - I believe - every building that is demolished in Asbury takes a number of gays with it (even if we/they don't realize it our/themselves). Places that have no problem mixing populations seems a backhanded compliment; have we not gone beyond tribal feudalism? Are these `places' `more' primarily because they are gay refuges (reservations) or because gay tolerant, pre-selects for a segment (both gay and straight) that is socially, economically and culturally richer? Places that define or think of themselves as bastions of minority culture ultimately face the emergence of sub-groups having differing needs, wants and aspirations. Then too there is a trait persistent and predictable in humans, growth and success invariably lead to fragmentation of the cohesiveness of the group. Asbury's gay community already shows signs of the emergence of dissent regarding how worthy the current council is of gay support; this is particularly apparent with Loffredo, does his gayness grant him a free ride re his near total allegiance to Asbury Partners? Is the gay community so threatened, short sighted or self absorbed as to grant this council license to deal away all that is Asbury, just so long as council pays lip service to a gay agenda? How does one know whether acceptance is due to greater numbers of the minority achieving tolerance, a process wherein the minority's growth over time and with luck, cause it to approximate or become the majority; or acceptance by the general population as it learns from exposure to the minority, that there is no basis for fear or estrangement? Seems that as minorities attain acceptance, there's a lesser need for the mechanisms that once defined and insulated it; this invariably leads to a co-opting of the minority by a confluence of subdivision within the minority and tolerance from the general population. Once you arrive, the goal or location no longer resembles or is identifiable as the destination. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes that's the over-view of the stereotypical process. But places like San Francisco, Key West, Miami are more fun and more profitable. And Asbury could be one of those. These places have no problem mixing the populations. And the retention of the gay community has been integral to retaining the entertainment value of those locations. But - I believe - every building that is demolished in Asbury takes a number of gays with it (even if we/they don't realize it our/themselves). So it is my belief that this Council is only helpful to the gay community to the extent that it acts to retain Asbury's character. Otherwise its effect will be transitory. You gotta save what is left as Ernie Cote says. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Big influence ?
Dan: Everything doesn't have to be a huge fight. Dane is merely campaigning for his candidates. I don't see a diatribe in there at all. You know I don't agree with the choices but people are entitled to promote the candidates they believe in. If you want to take issue with the endorsement then that's great but I don't see a problem with how he did it. Some of what you say is true. APAC used no rating system for the candidates - so those of us willing to use APAC's research can't compare to the entire list of candidates to see how they might be on certain issues. Certainly Stuart Koperweis would have to have excelled on such a scale. Whenever a political group endorses a slate of candidates I look for their rating basis and apply it to all the candidates. Without a stated, comparative basis for an endorsement, I usually assume its based on favoritism, party insider, or, in the case of a small town like Asbury, friendship, clique or affinity. I think we in Asbury should be more concerned with an us against them attitude adopted from larger scale political contests than who will win this race. Camps form in politics and may be a necessary evil in larger scale contests. But in a small town I don't know that it's necessary and certainly has its draw-backs. The town is too small for blood-feuds. So how bout live and let live? You certainly have your say on this list - I think Dane is entitled to his. -Original Message- From: dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 03:03:49 - Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Big influence ? Dane's diatribe is not really worth responding to, but I'll do it anyway. In short he is saying that we should forgive the incumbents for what? Not being on spot even some of the time? What are their qualifications? Diversity? When did that become the litmus test for public office? Sorry, but I will take some homogenity in return for competence. And what is this constant talk about the other candidates' lack of experience? It is obvious that Dane and his cohorts have not examined some of the candidates' experience. Cote spent 15 years in Holmdel governmet, 2 of which were as mayor. Schneider is and has been on the AP Planning Board for many years, including as chair. Koperweis has worked with municipalities for the past two decades and helped put Jersey City on the economic map. Keady has organized substantial social causes and business plans for not-for-profits. Some of the others, including Lamberton and Suggs also have some similar experience. And what about John Hamilton? Is he not diverse enough? He certainly has experience serving two terms on the AP council, the last of which he was the only one with a backbone. And who is spreading hate? Very few here have said anything other objective criticisms. What, the council is allowed to do anything they want and no one can say anything? I have a message for Dane and his candidates, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. On paper, Loffredo, Sanders and Bruno shouldn't even be on the same ballot with the likes of Schneider, Koperweis, Keady, Cote, and some of the others, when it comes to experience and qualifications. I have another message for you Dane, COMPROMISE is a two-way street, not ASBURY PARTNERS BOULEVARD. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: live and let live - ‘hunky dory’
Yes that's the over-view of the stereotypical process. But places like San Francisco, Key West, Miami are more fun and more profitable. And Asbury could be one of those. These places have no problem mixing the populations. And the retention of the gay community has been integral to retaining the entertainment value of those locations. But - I believe - every building that is demolished in Asbury takes a number of gays with it (even if we/they don't realize it our/themselves). So it is my belief that this Council is only helpful to the gay community to the extent that it acts to retain Asbury's character. Otherwise its effect will be transitory. You gotta save what is left as Ernie Cote says. -Original Message- From: Skip Bernstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:30:46 - Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: live and let live - hunky dory gay gentrification is a prime source for resurrecting places such as Asbury Park and without it Asbury would be a very different point right now and in the future. Former definitely, latter perhaps but historically, neither here nor there. Fact is gentrification of troubled neighborhoods requires pioneers, but the process is one of evolution; once you attain sufficient numbers or a critical mass of bright, colorful and interesting people, the great boring and cautious middle class begin to recognize the changed character of the now quaint and relatively inexpensive area and join in. This is soon recognized as a double edged sword as the greater the adoption of middle-class aspirations, the more conservative the tastes of those joining. Ultimately much that drew earlier waves of residents is found objectionable by the later, the pioneers move on to new frontiers, real estate prices climb, schools improve and everything's `hunky dory' till the next cycle. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Tyler, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remaining gay friendly isn't just neither here nor there. Redevelopment literature actually advises developers to entice gay gentrification to resurrect urban areas that have fallen on hard times. (Actually, redevelopment seminars advise developers to supply housing to art students as an anchor in the gentrification process as the best choice; and then the average gay community is second choice - third choice being all other types of grad students.) The fact is that gay gentrification is a prime source for resurrecting places such as Asbury Park and without it Asbury would be a very different point right now and in the future.Unless you think a large prestigious art school is going to open a branch here soon, I think that the present gay community is literally indispensable to Asbury's future. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Support your candidates
I sent a donation to Friends of Asbury but failed to include the necessary info. I sent one to Koperweis for Council as well and did include the necessary info. Maybe you could cross-reference. Name: Mark Tyler; My address for voting purposes is 617 Sewall Ave., Apt. 2, Asbury Park, NJ 07712; I am an attorney, I work for the NYC Corp. Counsel at 100 Church Street, NYC 10007. The check should arrive at Ben Schneider's on Mon. I would guess. - Good Luck -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:13:11 EDT Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] Support your candidates In a message dated 4/23/2005 12:13:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have sent a contirbution to Koperweis Council after reviewing the debates. Keady, Schneider and Lamberton should post how to contribute to their campaigns. To make a donation to Jim Keady for the 2005 City Council election: You can make a check payable to Keady for Council, and send to: 608 Cookman Avenue, #B, Asbury Park, NJ 07712. Please include your address, occupation, employer name, and employer address (for filing purposes). If you would like a Keady for Council lawn sign, please call: 732.988.9985. To make a donation to the Keady - Koperweis - Schneider team: You can make a check payable to Friends of Asbury Park Committee and send to: 914 Bangs Avenue, Asbury Park, NJ 07712. Please include your address, occupation, employer name, and employer address (for filing purposes). If you would like a Keady - Koperweis - Schneider lawn sign, please call 732.502. or 732.988.9985. Thanks for your support! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Support your candidates
Sorry - thought that was a private post. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:34:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] Support your candidates I sent a donation to Friends of Asbury but failed to include the necessary info. I sent one to Koperweis for Council as well and did include the necessary info. Maybe you could cross-reference. Name: Mark Tyler; My address for voting purposes is 617 Sewall Ave., Apt. 2, Asbury Park, NJ 07712; I am an attorney, I work for the NYC Corp. Counsel at 100 Church Street, NYC 10007. The check should arrive at Ben Schneider's on Mon. I would guess. - Good Luck -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:13:11 EDT Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] Support your candidates In a message dated 4/23/2005 12:13:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have sent a contirbution to Koperweis Council after reviewing the debates. Keady, Schneider and Lamberton should post how to contribute to their campaigns. To make a donation to Jim Keady for the 2005 City Council election: You can make a check payable to Keady for Council, and send to: 608 Cookman Avenue, #B, Asbury Park, NJ 07712. Please include your address, occupation, employer name, and employer address (for filing purposes). If you would like a Keady for Council lawn sign, please call: 732.988.9985. To make a donation to the Keady - Koperweis - Schneider team: You can make a check payable to Friends of Asbury Park Committee and send to: 914 Bangs Avenue, Asbury Park, NJ 07712. Please include your address, occupation, employer name, and employer address (for filing purposes). If you would like a Keady - Koperweis - Schneider lawn sign, please call 732.502. or 732.988.9985. Thanks for your support! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] dead lines
Ask right now - they're in the phone book. -Original Message- From: charlie leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AsburyPark] dead lines its clear that asbury parnters hasnt held up their end of the bargin, when it comes to deadlines. what does the city council, or asbury partners say about this? has anyone outright asked them? if you ask a council member, why they havnt paid for their mistakes (lack of meeting dealines)what do they say? do they come up with an excuse? what kind of excuse? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] WareHousing Digest Number 1232
I said it wouldn't be legal in NY. In NJ my research indicates that there are cases that support the argument that the sale could be vacated but it's not per se illegal. It's true that Asbury Partner's clearly is warehousing property but that's been said a thousand times. -Original Message- From: kyangazi denson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] WareHousing Digest Number 1232 THE DEAL'S DONE, LEGAL OR NOT! Smells like another Cabberretta Warehousing to me. Perhaps you can explain the Term: Warehousing to the group as it relates to E.D. Abuse Kyangazi...K A Denson, Write In Candidate for Council [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 4/25/2005 5:24:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 8 Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:17:33 -0400 From: Tyler, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Re: Looking to Past Glory People say I'm too technical in my posts but here goes anyway. There are differences between New York and New Jersey in development law. So it may be difficult to compare. In NY a large scale development must do an impact statement that covers more areas of concern than in NJ. At least a large scale residential one does. Although an impact statement was required by NJ for this development, its scope was more limited than in NY. The state review in NY seems to be more serious than it was here as well. It doesn't matter as much in NY if the municipality doesn't have experience because the state reviews a broader spectrum of impact issues. As witnessed by the recent bidding war over the Jets stadium, every little bit of property must be appraised and bid out to the highest bidder. The sales of the Casino and CH, etc. just could not have happened in NY. Or at least not in the same way. The developer would not have legal title and the manner in which it was done here in Asbury is not even remotely legal in NY. In NJ they have passed laws so municipalities can sue after the development is done, rather than address the problems upfront. Obviously this is a different approach. Mark- Very interesting post. With NJ's system relying on action after the fact, it sure does keep a lot of lawyers in business. The same cockeyed system is apparent in the OPRA law, which allows the public to see documents, but there is no way to enforce the public's right to access the meetings where these issues are formed, prior to becoming documents. If you want to enforce the open public meetings act, you have to bring your own lawsuit. Thank God there are still some lawyers who will take such cases pro bono. How did we ever get such a poor system? Is this an outgrowth of Home Rule? Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. Maureen Speak up - It's America!! Maureen Nevin Restore Radio 88.1FM - 4 Years on the Radio!! Asbury Park's Own Live Talk Show 601 Bangs Avenue Listen 8 - 10 PM Thursdays on 88.1FM or Listen Live or Later on the Web http://www.restoreradio.com/ Call the show 732-775-0821 Call me 732-774-0779 fax 502-0463 Ms Shangazi Presents: Issues and answers MSP TV 77 Real Life Documentaries on MSP TV 77 Watch MSP TV 77 on Cablevision Tue 9:30pm Questions, Comments, Suggestions, 732-775-1912, [EMAIL PROTECTED] For a Small Fee, It's Practically FREE! __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Today's Campaign Event
Maureen: That copy is priceless. That has to go into a Christopher Guest movie about Asbury Park. Really very amusing. Although I did shudder with fear at times. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:02:13 EDT Subject: [AsburyPark] Today's Campaign Event I've posted a brief report with some of the quotes made at the Asbury Tower. Speak up - It's America!! Maureen Nevin Restore Radio 88.1FM - 4 Years on the Radio!! Asbury Park's Own Live Talk Show 601 Bangs Avenue Listen 8 - 10 PM Thursdays on 88.1FM or Listen Live or Later on the Web http://www.restoreradio.com/ Call the show 732-775-0821 Call me 732-774-0779 fax 502-0463 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Save what's left
I like Ernie Cote's slogan. He's humorous and right on target. What's the scoop on Cote? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] old stuff saved...
The issues of preservation are not new to Asbury Park - this has been said one thousand times. There are many buildings that have been left to crumble completely and have been rebuilt all over the world and up and down the east coast of the U.S. - from Newport to Cape May to Miami and everywhere in between. Many far more costly than the price tag on the casino. These acts of preservation have been found to be economically beneficial over time especially for the community at large. However, a developer who just wants to come in and flip property and then leave is never going to care about the long-term financial benefits - although a City Council should. That's factual. You must at least admit that Asbury Partners' advertising Asbury Park based on the jewels of architecture here - and then at the same time getting permission to tear these jewels down supports everything I just said. What isn't factual is that the local tax payers should have to pay increases for the preservation of property they don't own especially since the federal government provides huge breaks directly to the owner and there are many other programs available to support the work of rehabilitation. We really must elect at least one or two people to the City Council who actually know something or are willing to reach out and get second opinions or do their own research. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:09:21 EDT Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] old stuff saved... How much do you think it would cost to preserve those buildings? I am just curious. You mention traveling to Italy and Greece. But those structures, did not sit for years without anyone doing anything. Some things can be looked at like cancer. If you catch it early the survival rate is usually higher. If you know you have a lump and you let years pass and don't go to the doctor, the survival rate is usually low. Kate Mellina, and the current council seem to be indicating it is not fiscally responsible to preserve some of the buildings in Asbury Park. The question for preservation should be put on the ballot and let the people decide. Lay out the cost for both, that way the community is now responsible for the fiscal impact. If it means significant tax increases, the out come was decided by the people and not by any council members. In order for council members and board of education members to avoid constant negative scrutiny, they should put major decisions on the ballots. Angel Martin Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Support your candidates
I have sent a contirbution to Koperweis Council after reviewing the debates. Keady, Schneider and Lamberton should post how to contribute to their campaigns. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Three stooges must go.....BRUNO, SANDERS, AND JO HN........
It says nothing at all does it? Well I can guess your educational resume. In any event the subject is fairly well studied. I read today that in systems where elected officials are subject to the rule of law (like the U.S.) there is a correlation between lack of education and corruption. Don't you think that says something - when studies show the less educated your representative the more likelly they are to be corrupt? But I guess your the kind of guy that gets medical care from someone who doesn't have a medical degree - since it means nothing. -Original Message- From: charlie leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:52:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: [AsburyPark] Three stooges must go.BRUNO, SANDERS, AND JO HN no, it auctally says nothing about a person at all. a person can be smart and challenge their thinking abilities in many other ways. so what your saying isnt accurate and im sure others will agree. --- Tyler, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does a high school diploma have to do with intelligence? Probably somewhat less. At least someone who chooses higher education is investigating the world, challenging their abilities, trying to improve their skills and possibly gaining relevant knowledge. Doesn't it say something about a person that never chooses to take such a challenge? -Original Message- From: charlie leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:43 PM To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] Three stooges must go.BRUNO, SANDERS, AND JOHN what exactly does college creidts have to do with being smart. --- irvingthefinger912 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nothing more dangerous than ignorant people who think they are smartbetween these 3. LAFFRADO...SANDERSAND BRUNO you have exactly no college creditsthe old Asbury guard is afraid of the new ..more educated.intelligent taxpayersThese 3 have been totally hoodwinked by Asbury Partnersand because of their egosjust do not know it..this city desperately needs new...savy.educated leadership..The only gains in this city have come from private effort.government has been more hinderance than help.and that includes Reidy and Aaron. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Glass half full/half empty
This list has been criticized for not allowing different and positive points of view. I think it is in everybody's best interest to make different points of view welcome on the list. So I am glad to facilitate that. But I must confront the armchair/Monday morning quarterback analogy. That analogy implies that non-prefessionals at the watercooler are second guessing pros on the field from the day before. The situation here is reversed. Dan, myself, JJ are all professionals in relevant fields. The re-elect Councilpersons are not. Although they are playing on the big field under big lights. This is our entire problem. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Glass half full/half empty
I agree with almost everything you said. A change for the sake of a change is probably doomed. Unless I have a candidate with substantially better credentials I may end up voting for one or more on the re-elect ticket myself. But the better deal in the wings part I don't see. My complaint isn't just that the deal falls outside of industry standards, it's that the Council didn't do what a reasonable group would have done. The key in such a position is to know when you're in over your head and to call in enough expertise to be sure. There simply weren't enough individuals with the right experience on the City's side. And, I can't even be sure what the deal is, because the developer appears to ask for a modification and then gets it without any consideration in return. I don't know when (if ever) the Council will draw the line. I wonder: If the re-elects are voted back in will the developers and Asbury Partners read that as a green light to continue taking modifications and breaching the agreement? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Better Coverage in APP Today
I said that the waterfront condos are not required to pay the school tax - not that I think they shouldn't have to. I believe the fact is they don't have to - it's part of the abatement - at least that is what I have been told. The examples of the fire dept and police dept. are not the same as schools. Although, there are places where separate communities supply some of their own security to avoid a portion of their taxes for police. My point isn't that people shouldn't have to pay taxes for what they don't use. But that we have to admit that government produces one size fis all products and services - while private groups can produce products tailored to their needs. Therefore - sometimes - it would be better to allow people the discretion of spending their money to get more of what they actually want. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Sale of Convention Hall
Can you give us the drift of the article that appeared 4-25-02? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: asbury park - fishman
Dan: Charlie has made those same arguments for 4 years. They've been refuted a thousand times. JerseyJohn did an accounting of all the developers that have tried to get in here. It's quite a number. Unfortunately despite all the facts that make those same arguments untenable, Charlie and the City Council (except perhaps Hamilton) still think the same things. It's no use. People who don't want to face facts won't. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Land worth - has council any interest in R.E. values
The Lofreddo letter in the Coaster is a little hard to understand. None of the listed items can possibly have anything to do with the valuation of the triangle property. The property's value cannot drop because of unrelated aspects of the redevelopment agreement. And, all of the items listed were already setoffs on the original purchase agreement. In any event, the listed items have nothing to do with the value of the property. If the property is going to be sold with a setoff and so at a reduced value, you still have to set the value the property based on 100% of actual value and then apply the setoff. Also, I don't believe that Asbury Partners is not entitled to one more cent from the City. Isn't it enough that the present residents of Asbury Park will be paying for the services of the redevelopment residents for at least 10 years through the tax abatement? And, haven't they received immensely valuable property for a relatively small amount of cash? Really, the City simply can't afford the present firesale. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] New to Asbury
You can go back through all of the old posts and read what has already been said. You will quickly learn which ones to skip. You can also go back and read past posted articles on www.asburypark.net www.gayasburypark.com www.app.com (they have an Asbury Park redevelopment link on the first screen) www.asburyboardwalk.com and www.restoreradio.com. Mark Tyler Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Wake up folks..Maureen is a sell out
Rizz - If you want to air facts about Depetro's behaviour then you should do it. We aren't his rental tenants and so we know what we see which is properly restored buildings. If Depetro is a bad or illegal landlord then he should get in trouble for that. None of that (even if true) changes the fact that he is the only person who has restored mutifamily buildings in Asbury Park properly. No matter what else he has done he still deserves credit for that. Mark Tyler Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] City's response
--- Yahoo! Groups Survey --~-- Please help us to improve Yahoo! Groups. Take the survey now! http://v2.decipherinc.com/survey/yahoo/yah04021?list=2 ~- Below is a response from the City regarding the failed notices and accelerated tax sale. I believe the response is wrong headed to say the least. Rather than spread the tax burden appropriately between all taxpayers, the City chooses to mail delinquent notices too late to be satisfied and get extra cash from those residents who happen to be the unlucky ones that had not received proper notice. The City states that the notices were delayed due the fact that the City was under staffed. It's ludicrous. The City decides to put a quarter of tax roll (all owners that had not received proper notice) up for tax lien sale rather than raises taxes in the next year. I can't believe it. It's like the short story The Lottery. Let's see whether Asbury Partners's property is in the sale. I would certainly purchase one or two. From: Rick Diaz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:59 PM To: Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Delinquent tax notices Dear : In response to your letter dated 11/29/04 to Councilman John Loffredo, I apologize for your inconvenience and frustration. The City faced a $4 million shortfall for the proposed 2004 municipal budget late in November 2003. $2 million was cut from several departments operating appropriations immediately. The other $2 million was identified as what is known as a reserve for uncollected taxes from the prior year. Municipalities are mandated to raise the uncollected taxes from the prior year in the subsequent years budget. In the event the City would have taken this course of action, it would have resulted in an approximate $0.50 increase in the tax rate-exclusive of any other increase. This would have been a significant burden to the taxpayers, and perhaps insurmountable hardship for others. The only option was to authorize what is known as an Accelerated Tax Sale, which allows the municipality to collect all taxes in the current budget year-however, the tax sale is moved up about one year because the City must have collected all taxes by December 31. This brings us to delinquent billing jeapordy, which is as stressful and frustrating to City employees as it is to taxpayers having to adhere to a new procedure, at what I consider to be the worst time of the year. A portion of our billing dilemma is a result of the State requirment that any City participating in the accelerated tax sale procedure is restriced from even beginning the process until November 11. In addition, by law, the City must have payment in certified funds or cash. This only gives us a small window (about six weeks) to update all tax and sewer data by the time of the sale, which is December 29. With a holiday and the largest annual municipal convention in the State occuring during November-the window is even smaller. To further, and unintentionally antagonize our taxpayers, our tax office was unusually shortstaffed in November. The tax collector required several weeks of emergency medical leave. Two of the tax assistants (not related), both lost family members over the same weekend and required bereavement leave. I believe that is the day you called for assistance and only one person was in the office. In an effort to comply with State requirements, and prevent the confusion and inconveniences from occurring again next year, the City is planning to mail several tax sale reminder notices prior to the November 11 date I referenced earlier. I think this would give taxpayers more time to prepare. Although we don't have a response from the State yet, I predict it will be favorable. I again apologize for our inability to address your concerns in a more professional manner. I totally agree that wonderful things are happening in Asbury Park-and they will continue. This City has been neglected for decades, for a host of reasons. The residual effect is also in several of our municipal operations, but we are making progress which will take a little time. This Mayor and Council, the City Manager, and the employees who service you and the other residents of this City are committed to improving the quality of life in Asbury Park. In the event you wish to discuss an issue or concern, or require information, please contact me at 732-502-5709. Have agreat holiday! With every best regard, Rick Diaz Finance Director 3 of 109 Include original text in reply. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Deal Lake Sale Ordinance/Show sound up
Dan: Glad you're here. Mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re:Parking lot Joke Price
Well you hit the nail on the head. Although the Palace would fail as a useable comparable, it does say APartners thought the property was worth at least that amount. Property values are higher now. Dan doesn't know that we jumped up and down about this already years ago. I have always thought that a legal action was and would be appropriate to obtain more reasonable value for the City of AP. I don't think it would hurt the development progress at all - there's no reason it should. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re:Parking lot Joke Price
Thank you. Asking for a more reasonable price is not the same as trying to stop construction. Besides they must know that such a lawsuit could be brought at any time and they're choosing to go forward anyway. If such a suit was brought what would stop them from continuing? No one is saying they don't have a right to build or make money. It's hard to explain to lay people that all lawsuits are not a like. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Digest Number 1042
I don't think that the List has limited what is allowed. Jersey John has shown substantial support for conservative issues contrary to most of the list - as others have. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
