[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
Your response begs, what if? That hasn't occurred yet and please, name names! I don't deal in what ifs, just the facts. I don't use anonymous sources in my posts, but you're right. If that imaginary person protests against the City celebrating Kwanzaa on its' dime, my answer will come on election day in May. I will go into the Black Community on the West Side and ask the voters to speak as they spoke on Nov. 4th! The vote speaks volumes! I'm sure there is someone that will replace this person easily! Maybe it'll be ME! As Columbus Day is important to you, Kwanzaa and its' humble significance, is important to me. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 sharon_b283@ wrote: I think you missed the point! July 4th came BEFORE the bottom fell out of our economy! I'll argue this point though, the snowflakes that light up on the utility poles are up now, 2 weeks! Christmas, YES, Kwanzaa, NO? I'll bet there'll be a tree lighting, too! Not a problem! Bradley Beach has a tree, menorah and a Nativity scene. No Kwanzaa anything! I have no idea what Neptune has beside a lit tree. Ocean Township either but in Allenhurst, the same as Bradley Beach. Kwanzaa for me, is a personal celebration. Kwanzaa was a creation to allow African Americans to celebrate the Black Family, where small inexpensive gifts are presented and the 7 principles are focused on. No more, no less! The Kinara sits on my dining room table with 3 red, 3 green and a black candle in the center. Liberation colors. Since we don't know the region of Africa, we were taken from, those colors celebrate the red for our blood, the green is for hope and the black is for our color, created by Marcus Garvey. The Kwanzaa celebration sounds very personal to you Sharon. So important that others should be respectful of it - allow it to you. Allow your community to celebrate with you. We should be tolerant and gentle with that for sure. Now imagine a councilman who is not. Imagine him yelling, veins bulging with hate from the dais, demonizing and demoralizing what you hold dear. Intolerance x 10. Imagine him supporting a non-profit that also says, We will take the accutrements fo Kwanzaa, but we declare the very name of it damaged and damaging, and will not use it. Honestly, would you feel put upon? Would you feel better or worse should the response to your complaints be to minimize you further? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
Try Home Goods in Neptune, the Christmas Store in Freehold, Pier One, Ocean Township, etc. I bought my blue and white candles from the Christmas Store in Freehold last year, but Home Goods and Pier One have carried them in the past. Call, before you waste gas! --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- I just left wegman's. All those christmas trees in the lobby. All those christmas things for sale. Nothing for Hanukkah. We keep it simple. Easy chicken parm dinner. Weg's chicken, Weg's tomato basil sauce (ap related) (.99) and already shredded mozz. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sure there is someone that will replace this person easily! Maybe it'll be ME! go for it Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
Your post made me teary, too! It's a really GREAT group, with a lot of thoroughly intellectual people, who clue me in to the real Asbury Park. I can find something good in anyone! Everyone is redeemable and worth listening to, (most of the time). I don't care if you are a newbie an oldie, a lurker or God forbid, a TROLL. This is a very diverse Yahoo Group and we all bring something to the table. It IS a season of giving. Thank you! --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: People do love to hate you Tommy, but I think you like it too. simple questions would have avoided the banter, which was pretty funny and gave me a great belly laugh. I think it would have been more fair for you to address the entire council on this at a meeting. You'd never see any of the other councilmen responding here. Keady is no messiah to me, but his continuous efforts at outreach and his attention to transparency are precisely what governments need. As well as the citizens to pay attention. For those of you who love to hate Tommy, and I admit he is a baiter, Tommy is not way off in this if in fact the word Christmas has been somehow banned from city usage. Jews would flip, African Americans would flip and Gay people would flip. PC paranoia can make people lean toward fascism just as the right does. Watch that the oppressee in you is not becoming the oppressor. Get over your tribal self. If you have questioned Columbus day you must tolerate questions of Kwanzaa. Did that guy really do that? I will look it up. If anyone knows this to be untrue please speak. Tommy, human beings are violent creatures. We are getting better all the time and there is no need to deny colonization was ugly. You can still celebrate America and tell a little more of the truth about it. I know it has ugliness AND beauty, just like everyone of us. Jim's suggestion for going over items line by line would, I think force all this energy into something more productive and free from personalizing (which should be called ego baiting). Probably be interesting as well. That way we could actually know what is being spent on these events, if anything. I really did enjoy reading this thread. Tommy and Jim's intelligence and frat boy spats, the gang up on Tommy, Franks funny visuals, Sharon's description of Kwanzaa made me teary, Oakdorf's hilarious interjections and the grunts from jersy john, mike and jack..BTW Jack, Tommy got you on that. Really funny. Much better than anyone else's story. I need to express my genuine affection and gratitude for this community and it is the thankful season. So thank you! --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Mike Hemeon tvnetdude2000@ wrote: It is my culture too. It was probably more the booze than Christianity. --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Jersey Shore John jerseyshorejohn@ wrote: From: Jersey Shore John jerseyshorejohn@ Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 6:39 PM Christianity destroyed my Irish culture in Ireland, so... whatever. On Nov 10, 2008, at 6:19 PM, Jersey Shore John wrote: Christmas is German. On Nov 10, 2008, at 5:30 PM, justifiedright wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, Jersey Shore John jerseyshorejohn@ ... wrote: Now this is treatment of you, personally? Oy. As an American taking part in the Columbus Day celebration whom Keady calls liars, certainly. He was talking about me. As a Christian listening to a non-profit declare the word Christmas as bad, certainly. It's my identity and culture under attack. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your response begs, what if? That hasn't occurred yet and please, name names! I don't deal in what ifs, just the facts. I don't use anonymous sources in my posts, but you're right. If that imaginary person protests against the City celebrating Kwanzaa on its' dime, my answer will come on election day in May. I will go into the Black Community on the West Side and ask the voters to speak as they spoke on Nov. 4th! The vote speaks volumes! I'm sure there is someone that will replace this person easily! Maybe it'll be ME! As Columbus Day is important to you, Kwanzaa and its' humble significance, is important to me. Sharon the name you are askng me for is Jim Keady. You really clarified the issue with your post above better than I have. He opposes both the Columbus and Kwanzaa celebrations (which you and I support). The reason he so viciously rails against just we who support Columbus Day, the reason he gets his name in the paper for it every year, is he does not fear a loss of votes from it. Yet he only objects to Kwanzaa quitely, in the back room. He does not want Nancy Shields to do a story about that. Why? For exactly the reason you eloquently stated above. He does not want someone touring the West Side of Asbury Park telling the story that Jim Keady is the only one of the 5 Councilmembers who objects to the City's Kwanzaa celebration. His position is therefore culturally insensitive to both us, duplicitous, as well as pandering regarding the Black community. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
Thank you for the response, Councilman Keady. So you don't think the City should expend any money on cultural events. Thank you for clearing that up. I note it is only the Columbus Day celebration which you publically oppose (with great vigor I might ad, including props). Why not support them all with such vigor? By the way, you march in the Fourth of July parade. That is also a cultural celebration. Why the exception? Do you also opposed to public resources spent on the Pride Parade? Finally - where is your stance on the City scubbing all mention of the word Christmas from its celebrations? For or opposed? In that line: Isn't Christmas a cultural part of America, and has been so for many, many years? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, James Keady [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Deseno: In a recent post to this list you wrote: For the same reason, Keady will bash Columbus Day and rage on (as he did last month again) about the use of public funds for a cultural holiday (Columbus Day) but stays silent on Kwanzaa. Once again, you exercise your less than scrupulous tactics, this time - judgment without query. Thank God our judicial system does not operate in the way that you do. Let me share with you how an adult looking for an answer to a legitimate question may have framed this. Mr. Deseno: Mr. Keady, in the past you have been outspoken about the use of public tax dollars for the City's Columbus Day event. I am curious to know if you have similar feelings about tax dollars being spent on the upcoming Kwanza celebration and for that matter the City spending money on any religious or pseudo-religious events? And I would have responded. First, let me be clear that my concern with the Asbury Park Columbus Day celebration is that it presents a sanitized version of history at best and outright lies at worst. As an educator, my concern was/is that public dollars were/are being spent to misinform our youth about Columbus' discovery of America. If however a private group would like to put on this event (ex. Knights of Columbus) I would both support and defend their right to do that. Second, since you raised the issue about Kwanza, let me share the following. I had a conversation with the City Manager about two weeks ago regarding this and expressed my concern that the City should NOT be paying for this event. While I do believe that the Kwanza event is a positive one for our community and our youth, I do not believe that taxpayer dollars should be spent on events like this. I also do not believe that taxpayer dollars should be spent on any Christmas celebrations either. These are religious or pseudo-religious holidays and spending tax dollars to support them does come dangerously close to violating the establishment clause. To keep these kinds of events going, and I do think they should be kept going, the City could/should help the organizers to find private dollars (Churches, Business Groups, etc.) to fund and promote these events. Now. Since we are talking about spending tax-payer dollars, this is an excellent time to explore a much broader discussion that this community MUST have. In light of the current fiscal crisis in our nation and the impact that that this crisis will have on municipal governments in both the short and long-term, we need to ask (and answer) the questions, What should we spend our tax dollars on? What should we cut from the budget if tax revenues decrease by 10%, 20%, etc.? I recommend that the City start with a clean sheet and put very directed questions to our citizens regarding budget line items and educate them on what each item will cost. Then, with this information in hand, the community can set spending priorities. For example: Do you want to keep the Police Department at its current staffing levels? If so, here is what that will cost (the City would provide a breakdown for every projected penny spent). Once there is consensus on what to spend, move on to the next item. For example: Do you want to keep the Department of Public Works and the Department of Engineering separate departments or should we merge them? If we merged them, here are the potential cost savings, potential increases in efficiency for delivery of services, etc. Once there is consensus on this, move on to the next item. I think you get the idea. I hope everyone is having a great start to the week. Peace, JWK Councilman James W. Keady 1 Municipal Plaza Asbury Park, NJ 07712 TEL: 732.502.5196 EM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.cityofasburypark.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
Mr. Deseno, I never ceases to amaze me how someone like yourself, who makes their living in a profession that demands factual basis for argument, has such a disdain for accurate and truthful statements. You wrote: So you don't think the City should expend any money on cultural events. I never said this. Please go back to my previous email and document where I made this statement. I was clear about religious and pseudo- religious events. I also was clear about why I took issue with a specific cultural event, Columbus Day. You wrote: I note it is only the Columbus Day celebration which you publically oppose (with great vigor I might ad, including props). Why not support them all with such vigor? I think you erred here in your copy, I believe, based the entirety of your email, that you meant to say, Why (are you) not opposed them all with such vigor? Again, I have been clear about my groudning in objecting to the City- sponsored Columbus Day event with such vigor as you put it. You wrote: By the way, you march in the Fourth of July parade. That is also a cultural celebration. I am not against all cultural celebrations. I know this is difficult for you to handle, given your binary worldview, but an individual can actually come to decisions based on the merits of each case (i.e. It does not have to be all or nothing.) You wrote: Do you also opposed to public resources spent on the Pride Parade? Your grammar is a bit off here, but I get your point. As far as I recall, there were not public resources spent on the Pride Parade, it was an event that was financed by a non-profit entity and they applied for permits the same as any other outside group would. Do you have facts to the contrary? You wrote: Finally - where is your stance on the City scubbing all mention of the word Christmas from its celebrations? For or opposed? As I shared in my earlier email, I do not support the City's expending of any tax-dollars on Christmas, so, your above question to me is moot. You wrote: In that line: Isn't Christmas a cultural part of America, and has been so for many, many years? Christmas has evolved in the mainstream American consciousness into a hybrid of the religious and cultural. But, if we are honest with ourselves about the facts, Christmas IS a religous celebration. To deny that is to be disingenous to its origins. Given that it is a religious holiday, I believe that any tax dollars used to celebrate Christmas is a violation of the establishment clause. Finally, just because something exists or has happened for many, many years is no grounds for its just continuation. We have enough examples in world history that show this to be very faulty logic. On a more personal level, as a fellow Christian, I do not think that we need the State to edify (by celebrating Christmas) our counter- cultural commitments to following the Good News of a radical, itinerant preacher from Galilee (Jesus). When it comes to this, I think the sage advice of St. Francis of Assisi is worthy of consideration. Francis said, Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words. This is my final response to this issue Mr. Deseno. I thought you might have learned from this most recent election that the people of our great nation want their leaders focusing the majority of their energy on issues that really matter and they do not want these leaders caught up in the minutiae of the culture wars. There are many more important matters that this community, our state and our nation are currently facing that demand attention. Peace, Councilman Jim Keady Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jwkeady [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Deseno, I never ceases to amaze me how someone like yourself, who makes their living in a profession that demands factual basis for argument, has such a disdain for accurate and truthful statements. Mr. Keady, must you start off personalizing? Speaking of, I note that twice you remark about my grammar in the post below. I've said many times I post here for leisure. I have jobs where grammar and spelling are important, and this isn't one of them. Also when I come across someone not to my own standard for grammar, never would I take him or her to task for it in public. I treat people with dignity and respect. Since it appears important to you though, should you ever wish to engage in a contest where proper grammar in writing is the score, just let me know when and where the game begins. Now on to substance. You said this: You wrote: So you don't think the City should expend any money on cultural events. I never said this. Please go back to my previous email and document where I made this statement. I was clear about religious and pseudo- religious events. I also was clear about why I took issue with a specific cultural event, Columbus Day. Oh I see, Mr. Keady. You hide your objection to Kwanzaa on quasi- religious. So you disagree with many on this board (as well as Ron Karenga's Kwanzaa website) that it is neither religious nor a replacement for religion. Fear not though - the folks on this board who see you in Messiah-like fashion will not score their disagreement against you. They will just use it as an excuse to rail at me at the mere thought of having to disagree with you. Religious vs Cultural aside, I understand you to stand against he City's expenditure of funds for Kwanzaa. As I understand you, the reason you go public on the dais against Columbus Day and not Kwanzaa is that you feel the full story about Columbus is not told. You think of him poorly. Let's put aside that I've alerted you to all the bad information we have about Columbus came from his arch-rival, De Bobadilla, whose claims were debunked back in his own time (yet resurrected today by those who wish American history was bad). We can argue that again next October. Right now I'm interested in your excuse for bashing just my culture as opposed to others. You say it is because we don't teach the bad parts of Columbus. Well, Ron Karenga the founder of Kwanzaa, was convicted of kidnapping and torturing two minority women, beating them with cords, putting hot irons in their mouths and making them drink detergent. A shocking display of misogyny, cowardice, power, lack of compassion and inhumane action (WWJD?). If your excuse for railing against Columbus each year is we should include his bad story in our Columbus celebration, why do you not rail with equal vigor that we include Dr. Karenga's horribleness in the Kwanzaa celebration? Please tell me you have some legitimate excuse to clear up this glaringly hypocritical position? Oh by the way - the Catholic Church financed much of Columbus' trip. Did you rail against the church when we were trying to become a Deacon? As I shared in my earlier email, I do not support the City's expending of any tax-dollars on Christmas, so, your above question to me is moot. Then what about your thoughts on the private entity, the Chamber, making a decision to excise the name Christmas from their celebration while still using trees with lights, stars, wrapped presents and Santa Claus? Do you support the co-opting of culture and changing its name? On a more personal level, as a fellow Christian, I do not think that we need the State to edify (by celebrating Christmas) our counter- cultural commitments to following the Good News of a radical, itinerant preacher from Galilee (Jesus). When it comes to this, I think the sage advice of St. Francis of Assisi is worthy of consideration. Francis said, Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words. I seem to recall denying Jesus 3 times before the cock crows being a bad thing too. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
JR - You missed the councilman's question. Do you have any facts to back up your question Do you also opposed to public resources spent on the Pride Parade? Your grammar is a bit off here, but I get your point. As far as I recall, there were not public resources spent on the Pride Parade, it was an event that was financed by a non-profit entity and they applied for permits the same as any other outside group would. Do you have facts to the contrary? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jwkeady james.keady@ wrote: Mr. Deseno, I never ceases to amaze me how someone like yourself, who makes their living in a profession that demands factual basis for argument, has such a disdain for accurate and truthful statements. Mr. Keady, must you start off personalizing? Speaking of, I note that twice you remark about my grammar in the post below. I've said many times I post here for leisure. I have jobs where grammar and spelling are important, and this isn't one of them. Also when I come across someone not to my own standard for grammar, never would I take him or her to task for it in public. I treat people with dignity and respect. Since it appears important to you though, should you ever wish to engage in a contest where proper grammar in writing is the score, just let me know when and where the game begins. Now on to substance. You said this: You wrote: So you don't think the City should expend any money on cultural events. I never said this. Please go back to my previous email and document where I made this statement. I was clear about religious and pseudo- religious events. I also was clear about why I took issue with a specific cultural event, Columbus Day. Oh I see, Mr. Keady. You hide your objection to Kwanzaa on quasi- religious. So you disagree with many on this board (as well as Ron Karenga's Kwanzaa website) that it is neither religious nor a replacement for religion. Fear not though - the folks on this board who see you in Messiah- like fashion will not score their disagreement against you. They will just use it as an excuse to rail at me at the mere thought of having to disagree with you. Religious vs Cultural aside, I understand you to stand against he City's expenditure of funds for Kwanzaa. As I understand you, the reason you go public on the dais against Columbus Day and not Kwanzaa is that you feel the full story about Columbus is not told. You think of him poorly. Let's put aside that I've alerted you to all the bad information we have about Columbus came from his arch-rival, De Bobadilla, whose claims were debunked back in his own time (yet resurrected today by those who wish American history was bad). We can argue that again next October. Right now I'm interested in your excuse for bashing just my culture as opposed to others. You say it is because we don't teach the bad parts of Columbus. Well, Ron Karenga the founder of Kwanzaa, was convicted of kidnapping and torturing two minority women, beating them with cords, putting hot irons in their mouths and making them drink detergent. A shocking display of misogyny, cowardice, power, lack of compassion and inhumane action (WWJD?). If your excuse for railing against Columbus each year is we should include his bad story in our Columbus celebration, why do you not rail with equal vigor that we include Dr. Karenga's horribleness in the Kwanzaa celebration? Please tell me you have some legitimate excuse to clear up this glaringly hypocritical position? Oh by the way - the Catholic Church financed much of Columbus' trip. Did you rail against the church when we were trying to become a Deacon? As I shared in my earlier email, I do not support the City's expending of any tax-dollars on Christmas, so, your above question to me is moot. Then what about your thoughts on the private entity, the Chamber, making a decision to excise the name Christmas from their celebration while still using trees with lights, stars, wrapped presents and Santa Claus? Do you support the co-opting of culture and changing its name? On a more personal level, as a fellow Christian, I do not think that we need the State to edify (by celebrating Christmas) our counter- cultural commitments to following the Good News of a radical, itinerant preacher from Galilee (Jesus). When it comes to this, I think the sage advice of St. Francis of Assisi is worthy of consideration. Francis said, Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words. I seem to recall denying Jesus 3 times before the cock crows being a bad thing too. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
VICTIM! On Nov 10, 2008, at 2:41 PM, justifiedright wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jwkeady [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Deseno, I never ceases to amaze me how someone like yourself, who makes their living in a profession that demands factual basis for argument, has such a disdain for accurate and truthful statements. Mr. Keady, must you start off personalizing? Speaking of, I note that twice you remark about my grammar in the post below. I've said many times I post here for leisure. I have jobs where grammar and spelling are important, and this isn't one of them. Also when I come across someone not to my own standard for grammar, never would I take him or her to task for it in public. I treat people with dignity and respect. Since it appears important to you though, should you ever wish to engage in a contest where proper grammar in writing is the score, just let me know when and where the game begins. Now on to substance. You said this: You wrote: So you don't think the City should expend any money on cultural events. I never said this. Please go back to my previous email and document where I made this statement. I was clear about religious and pseudo- religious events. I also was clear about why I took issue with a specific cultural event, Columbus Day. Oh I see, Mr. Keady. You hide your objection to Kwanzaa on quasi- religious. So you disagree with many on this board (as well as Ron Karenga's Kwanzaa website) that it is neither religious nor a replacement for religion. Fear not though - the folks on this board who see you in Messiah-like fashion will not score their disagreement against you. They will just use it as an excuse to rail at me at the mere thought of having to disagree with you. Religious vs Cultural aside, I understand you to stand against he City's expenditure of funds for Kwanzaa. As I understand you, the reason you go public on the dais against Columbus Day and not Kwanzaa is that you feel the full story about Columbus is not told. You think of him poorly. Let's put aside that I've alerted you to all the bad information we have about Columbus came from his arch-rival, De Bobadilla, whose claims were debunked back in his own time (yet resurrected today by those who wish American history was bad). We can argue that again next October. Right now I'm interested in your excuse for bashing just my culture as opposed to others. You say it is because we don't teach the bad parts of Columbus. Well, Ron Karenga the founder of Kwanzaa, was convicted of kidnapping and torturing two minority women, beating them with cords, putting hot irons in their mouths and making them drink detergent. A shocking display of misogyny, cowardice, power, lack of compassion and inhumane action (WWJD?). If your excuse for railing against Columbus each year is we should include his bad story in our Columbus celebration, why do you not rail with equal vigor that we include Dr. Karenga's horribleness in the Kwanzaa celebration? Please tell me you have some legitimate excuse to clear up this glaringly hypocritical position? Oh by the way - the Catholic Church financed much of Columbus' trip. Did you rail against the church when we were trying to become a Deacon? As I shared in my earlier email, I do not support the City's expending of any tax-dollars on Christmas, so, your above question to me is moot. Then what about your thoughts on the private entity, the Chamber, making a decision to excise the name Christmas from their celebration while still using trees with lights, stars, wrapped presents and Santa Claus? Do you support the co-opting of culture and changing its name? On a more personal level, as a fellow Christian, I do not think that we need the State to edify (by celebrating Christmas) our counter- cultural commitments to following the Good News of a radical, itinerant preacher from Galilee (Jesus). When it comes to this, I think the sage advice of St. Francis of Assisi is worthy of consideration. Francis said, Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words. I seem to recall denying Jesus 3 times before the cock crows being a bad thing too. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
Mark thanks first for joing the discussion. I see though as Mr. Keady took the time to highlight my grammatical error, you repeat it as well. You ask if I have facts to back up my question. I understand a statement to need to be backed up with facts, but isn't a question a request for facts? I'll try anyway to further the discussion. Upon repair of my grammatical error, the question is as follows: Would you also be opposed to public resources spent on the Pride Parade? I ask the question to further highlight that some cultural events are being funded (like Kwanzaa), while others are not (like Pride). It appears to me Asbury Park, which so emotionally shouts its worth through diversity and tolerance is actually making value judgments about groups and funding them (or in keady's case, railing against them from the dais) based upon judgments made about the group. How exceedingly intolerant. Mark I've given you the benefit of discussing your point. I hope you will reciprocate and discuss the varied treatment of Columbus Day, Kwanzaa, Pride and Chrsitmas by Mr. Keady and the rest of City government. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, mark07712 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JR - You missed the councilman's question. Do you have any facts to back up your question Do you also opposed to public resources spent on the Pride Parade? Your grammar is a bit off here, but I get your point. As far as I recall, there were not public resources spent on the Pride Parade, it was an event that was financed by a non-profit entity and they applied for permits the same as any other outside group would. Do you have facts to the contrary? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jwkeady james.keady@ wrote: Mr. Deseno, I never ceases to amaze me how someone like yourself, who makes their living in a profession that demands factual basis for argument, has such a disdain for accurate and truthful statements. Mr. Keady, must you start off personalizing? Speaking of, I note that twice you remark about my grammar in the post below. I've said many times I post here for leisure. I have jobs where grammar and spelling are important, and this isn't one of them. Also when I come across someone not to my own standard for grammar, never would I take him or her to task for it in public. I treat people with dignity and respect. Since it appears important to you though, should you ever wish to engage in a contest where proper grammar in writing is the score, just let me know when and where the game begins. Now on to substance. You said this: You wrote: So you don't think the City should expend any money on cultural events. I never said this. Please go back to my previous email and document where I made this statement. I was clear about religious and pseudo- religious events. I also was clear about why I took issue with a specific cultural event, Columbus Day. Oh I see, Mr. Keady. You hide your objection to Kwanzaa on quasi- religious. So you disagree with many on this board (as well as Ron Karenga's Kwanzaa website) that it is neither religious nor a replacement for religion. Fear not though - the folks on this board who see you in Messiah- like fashion will not score their disagreement against you. They will just use it as an excuse to rail at me at the mere thought of having to disagree with you. Religious vs Cultural aside, I understand you to stand against he City's expenditure of funds for Kwanzaa. As I understand you, the reason you go public on the dais against Columbus Day and not Kwanzaa is that you feel the full story about Columbus is not told. You think of him poorly. Let's put aside that I've alerted you to all the bad information we have about Columbus came from his arch-rival, De Bobadilla, whose claims were debunked back in his own time (yet resurrected today by those who wish American history was bad). We can argue that again next October. Right now I'm interested in your excuse for bashing just my culture as opposed to others. You say it is because we don't teach the bad parts of Columbus. Well, Ron Karenga the founder of Kwanzaa, was convicted of kidnapping and torturing two minority women, beating them with cords, putting hot irons in their mouths and making them drink detergent. A shocking display of misogyny, cowardice, power, lack of compassion and inhumane action (WWJD?). If your excuse for railing against Columbus each year is we should include his bad story in our Columbus celebration, why do you not rail with equal vigor that we include Dr. Karenga's horribleness in the Kwanzaa celebration? Please tell me
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
If everyone celebrates the event and it should be funded (if money is available). 4th of July - sure. Kwanza should be grouped with the rest of the December holidays for 1 big party. Happy Holidaze, Asbury Style! Columbus Day - How much does it really cost? How much money are we really talking about??? So far the Kwanza expense seems to be 50 pieces of copy paper. Is it really worth spending hours on this over $50? I think it better debate would be: How do we improve the image of Asbury Ave from the circle to Main street. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark thanks first for joing the discussion. I see though as Mr. Keady took the time to highlight my grammatical error, you repeat it as well. You ask if I have facts to back up my question. I understand a statement to need to be backed up with facts, but isn't a question a request for facts? I'll try anyway to further the discussion. Upon repair of my grammatical error, the question is as follows: Would you also be opposed to public resources spent on the Pride Parade? I ask the question to further highlight that some cultural events are being funded (like Kwanzaa), while others are not (like Pride). It appears to me Asbury Park, which so emotionally shouts its worth through diversity and tolerance is actually making value judgments about groups and funding them (or in keady's case, railing against them from the dais) based upon judgments made about the group. How exceedingly intolerant. Mark I've given you the benefit of discussing your point. I hope you will reciprocate and discuss the varied treatment of Columbus Day, Kwanzaa, Pride and Chrsitmas by Mr. Keady and the rest of City government. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, mark07712 mark07712@ wrote: JR - You missed the councilman's question. Do you have any facts to back up your question Do you also opposed to public resources spent on the Pride Parade? Your grammar is a bit off here, but I get your point. As far as I recall, there were not public resources spent on the Pride Parade, it was an event that was financed by a non-profit entity and they applied for permits the same as any other outside group would. Do you have facts to the contrary? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright justifiedright@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jwkeady james.keady@ wrote: Mr. Deseno, I never ceases to amaze me how someone like yourself, who makes their living in a profession that demands factual basis for argument, has such a disdain for accurate and truthful statements. Mr. Keady, must you start off personalizing? Speaking of, I note that twice you remark about my grammar in the post below. I've said many times I post here for leisure. I have jobs where grammar and spelling are important, and this isn't one of them. Also when I come across someone not to my own standard for grammar, never would I take him or her to task for it in public. I treat people with dignity and respect. Since it appears important to you though, should you ever wish to engage in a contest where proper grammar in writing is the score, just let me know when and where the game begins. Now on to substance. You said this: You wrote: So you don't think the City should expend any money on cultural events. I never said this. Please go back to my previous email and document where I made this statement. I was clear about religious and pseudo- religious events. I also was clear about why I took issue with a specific cultural event, Columbus Day. Oh I see, Mr. Keady. You hide your objection to Kwanzaa on quasi- religious. So you disagree with many on this board (as well as Ron Karenga's Kwanzaa website) that it is neither religious nor a replacement for religion. Fear not though - the folks on this board who see you in Messiah- like fashion will not score their disagreement against you. They will just use it as an excuse to rail at me at the mere thought of having to disagree with you. Religious vs Cultural aside, I understand you to stand against he City's expenditure of funds for Kwanzaa. As I understand you, the reason you go public on the dais against Columbus Day and not Kwanzaa is that you feel the full story about Columbus is not told. You think of him poorly. Let's put aside that I've alerted you to all the bad information we have about Columbus came from his arch-rival, De Bobadilla, whose claims were debunked back in his own time (yet resurrected today by those who wish American history was bad). We can argue that again
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, James Keady [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Deseno: In a recent post to this list you wrote: For the same reason, Keady will bash Columbus Day and rage on (as he did last month again) about the use of public funds for a cultural holiday (Columbus Day) but stays silent on Kwanzaa. Once again, you exercise your less than scrupulous tactics, this time - judgment without query. Thank God our judicial system does not operate in the way that you do. Let me share with you how an adult looking for an answer to a legitimate question may have framed this. Mr. Deseno: Mr. Keady, in the past you have been outspoken about the use of public tax dollars for the City's Columbus Day event. I am curious to know if you have similar feelings about tax dollars being spent on the upcoming Kwanza celebration and for that matter the City spending money on any religious or pseudo-religious events? And I would have responded. First, let me be clear that my concern with the Asbury Park Columbus Day celebration is that it presents a sanitized version of history at best and outright lies at worst. As an educator, my concern was/is that public dollars were/are being spent to misinform our youth about Columbus' discovery of America. If however a private group would like to put on this event (ex. Knights of Columbus) I would both support and defend their right to do that. Second, since you raised the issue about Kwanza, let me share the following. I had a conversation with the City Manager about two weeks ago regarding this and expressed my concern that the City should NOT be paying for this event. While I do believe that the Kwanza event is a positive one for our community and our youth, I do not believe that taxpayer dollars should be spent on events like this. I also do not believe that taxpayer dollars should be spent on any Christmas celebrations either. These are religious or pseudo-religious holidays and spending tax dollars to support them does come dangerously close to violating the establishment clause. To keep these kinds of events going, and I do think they should be kept going, the City could/should help the organizers to find private dollars (Churches, Business Groups, etc.) to fund and promote these events. Now. Since we are talking about spending tax-payer dollars, this is an excellent time to explore a much broader discussion that this community MUST have. In light of the current fiscal crisis in our nation and the impact that that this crisis will have on municipal governments in both the short and long-term, we need to ask (and answer) the questions, What should we spend our tax dollars on? What should we cut from the budget if tax revenues decrease by 10%, 20%, etc.? I recommend that the City start with a clean sheet and put very directed questions to our citizens regarding budget line items and educate them on what each item will cost. Then, with this information in hand, the community can set spending priorities. For example: Do you want to keep the Police Department at its current staffing levels? If so, here is what that will cost (the City would provide a breakdown for every projected penny spent). Once there is consensus on what to spend, move on to the next item. For example: Do you want to keep the Department of Public Works and the Department of Engineering separate departments or should we merge them? If we merged them, here are the potential cost savings, potential increases in efficiency for delivery of services, etc. Once there is consensus on this, move on to the next item. I think you get the idea. I hope everyone is having a great start to the week. Peace, JWK Councilman James W. Keady 1 Municipal Plaza Asbury Park, NJ 07712 TEL: 732.502.5196 EM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.cityofasburypark.com Hi Jim, Although I greatly appreciate your logical, sound reasoning, it only sets off rabid posters who obviously are just throwing out feigned outrage as bait to see if you, too, will wallow in their masturbatory exercise in auditioning as occasional replacements for Sean Hannity. You, Jim, have a productive life. They have no productive life or job for that matter. If they do belong to a profession, they surely practice it as well as Joe the Plumber plumbs. This is like cyber-crack to them. Just as in actual crackheads, even a charitable dollar's worth of sense will only add to their hopped up misery. And you know what misery loves, don't you Jim? Stay on guard lest you, too, feel compelled to pick up that cyber-pipe. It is tempting to respond to every ludicrous piece of spoiled bait they toss out. Avoid the temptation. This group has devolved into what we Catholics called an occasion of sin because, if not vigilant, one gets
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, mark07712 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If everyone celebrates the event That's the standard? EVERYONE has to celebrate it? I don't thin we would have any. and it should be funded (if money is available). 4th of July - sure. Kwanza should be grouped with the rest of the December holidays for 1 big party. Happy Holidaze, Asbury Style! Columbus Day - How much does it really cost? How much money are we really talking about??? So far the Kwanza expense seems to be 50 pieces of copy paper. Is it really worth spending hours on this over $50? Would it kill you to say you disagree with Mr. Keady entirely? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, asburycheech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jim, Although I greatly appreciate your logical, sound reasoning, it only sets off rabid posters who obviously are just throwing out feigned outrage as bait to see if you, too, will wallow in their masturbatory exercise in auditioning as occasional replacements for Sean Hannity. You, Jim, have a productive life. They have no productive life or job for that matter. If they do belong to a profession, they surely practice it as well as Joe the Plumber plumbs. This is like cyber-crack to them. Just as in actual crackheads, even a charitable dollar's worth of sense will only add to their hopped up misery. And you know what misery loves, don't you Jim? Stay on guard lest you, too, feel compelled to pick up that cyber-pipe. It is tempting to respond to every ludicrous piece of spoiled bait they toss out. Avoid the temptation. This group has devolved into what we Catholics called an occasion of sin because, if not vigilant, one gets entangled in Satanic snares known all too well to Fox News devotees. You, Jim, will never get the last word in no matter how comprehensive or well-reasoned your response. You will only have rung a Pavlovian bell for the baiters, masters that they are. Surely they must stare bleary-eyed into their monitors night and day ready to pounce at the first sign of attention you show them. Frankly, I am surprised that the sheer volume of saliva elicited in them by your reasonable responses does not short circuit their computers, since they are ever at the ready to listen for that faintest tinkle. I'd like to say to the time-devourers out there: Get a life. But that would only educe in them the chub they so richly desire. Frank Keep the Gov't Out of Religion and v.v. D'Alessandro An Apostle speaks. He prayed that his Messiah's drive by answer would work:(Keady says: Here's my answer Tom and I won't post anymore because I don't want to face the response that proves me wrong). The Apostle can't bear reading my response to his Savior bearing fruit that proves he goes after Italians, the group of lesser votes, but applies not the same standard to Blacks of greater votes. The ultimate prejudice and pander exposed. Unequal treatment of two groups, under exactly the same situation. Racial bias from the titular head of Asbury Park's claims of unity and diversity. No surprise to me. The Apostle's entire personalized post about me is not addressed to me, rather to someone else. To whom should I address my response? To you of course, Frank. But I won't attack you as a person, as you have done to me. To ask you to sound off on the issue, your Messiah's hypocrisy, would be too much to ask I'm sure, so I won't. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
I think you missed the point! July 4th came BEFORE the bottom fell out of our economy! I'll argue this point though, the snowflakes that light up on the utility poles are up now, 2 weeks! Christmas, YES, Kwanzaa, NO? I'll bet there'll be a tree lighting, too! Not a problem! Bradley Beach has a tree, menorah and a Nativity scene. No Kwanzaa anything! I have no idea what Neptune has beside a lit tree. Ocean Township either but in Allenhurst, the same as Bradley Beach. Kwanzaa for me, is a personal celebration. Kwanzaa was a creation to allow African Americans to celebrate the Black Family, where small inexpensive gifts are presented and the 7 principles are focused on. No more, no less! The Kinara sits on my dining room table with 3 red, 3 green and a black candle in the center. Liberation colors. Since we don't know the region of Africa, we were taken from, those colors celebrate the red for our blood, the green is for hope and the black is for our color, created by Marcus Garvey. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you for the response, Councilman Keady. So you don't think the City should expend any money on cultural events. Thank you for clearing that up. I note it is only the Columbus Day celebration which you publically oppose (with great vigor I might ad, including props). Why not support them all with such vigor? By the way, you march in the Fourth of July parade. That is also a cultural celebration. Why the exception? Do you also opposed to public resources spent on the Pride Parade? Finally - where is your stance on the City scubbing all mention of the word Christmas from its celebrations? For or opposed? In that line: Isn't Christmas a cultural part of America, and has been so for many, many years? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, James Keady james.keady@ wrote: Mr. Deseno: In a recent post to this list you wrote: For the same reason, Keady will bash Columbus Day and rage on (as he did last month again) about the use of public funds for a cultural holiday (Columbus Day) but stays silent on Kwanzaa. Once again, you exercise your less than scrupulous tactics, this time - judgment without query. Thank God our judicial system does not operate in the way that you do. Let me share with you how an adult looking for an answer to a legitimate question may have framed this. Mr. Deseno: Mr. Keady, in the past you have been outspoken about the use of public tax dollars for the City's Columbus Day event. I am curious to know if you have similar feelings about tax dollars being spent on the upcoming Kwanza celebration and for that matter the City spending money on any religious or pseudo-religious events? And I would have responded. First, let me be clear that my concern with the Asbury Park Columbus Day celebration is that it presents a sanitized version of history at best and outright lies at worst. As an educator, my concern was/is that public dollars were/are being spent to misinform our youth about Columbus' discovery of America. If however a private group would like to put on this event (ex. Knights of Columbus) I would both support and defend their right to do that. Second, since you raised the issue about Kwanza, let me share the following. I had a conversation with the City Manager about two weeks ago regarding this and expressed my concern that the City should NOT be paying for this event. While I do believe that the Kwanza event is a positive one for our community and our youth, I do not believe that taxpayer dollars should be spent on events like this. I also do not believe that taxpayer dollars should be spent on any Christmas celebrations either. These are religious or pseudo-religious holidays and spending tax dollars to support them does come dangerously close to violating the establishment clause. To keep these kinds of events going, and I do think they should be kept going, the City could/should help the organizers to find private dollars (Churches, Business Groups, etc.) to fund and promote these events. Now. Since we are talking about spending tax-payer dollars, this is an excellent time to explore a much broader discussion that this community MUST have. In light of the current fiscal crisis in our nation and the impact that that this crisis will have on municipal governments in both the short and long-term, we need to ask (and answer) the questions, What should we spend our tax dollars on? What should we cut from the budget if tax revenues decrease by 10%, 20%, etc.? I recommend that the City start with a clean sheet and put very directed questions to our citizens regarding budget line items and educate them
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you missed the point! July 4th came BEFORE the bottom fell out of our economy! I'll argue this point though, the snowflakes that light up on the utility poles are up now, 2 weeks! Christmas, YES, Kwanzaa, NO? I'll bet there'll be a tree lighting, too! Not a problem! Bradley Beach has a tree, menorah and a Nativity scene. No Kwanzaa anything! I have no idea what Neptune has beside a lit tree. Ocean Township either but in Allenhurst, the same as Bradley Beach. Kwanzaa for me, is a personal celebration. Kwanzaa was a creation to allow African Americans to celebrate the Black Family, where small inexpensive gifts are presented and the 7 principles are focused on. No more, no less! The Kinara sits on my dining room table with 3 red, 3 green and a black candle in the center. Liberation colors. Since we don't know the region of Africa, we were taken from, those colors celebrate the red for our blood, the green is for hope and the black is for our color, created by Marcus Garvey. The Kwanzaa celebration sounds very personal to you Sharon. So important that others should be respectful of it - allow it to you. Allow your community to celebrate with you. We should be tolerant and gentle with that for sure. Now imagine a councilman who is not. Imagine him yelling, veins bulging with hate from the dais, demonizing and demoralizing what you hold dear. Intolerance x 10. Imagine him supporting a non-profit that also says, We will take the accutrements fo Kwanzaa, but we declare the very name of it damaged and damaging, and will not use it. Honestly, would you feel put upon? Would you feel better or worse should the response to your complaints be to minimize you further? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
Now this is treatment of you, personally? Oy. On Nov 10, 2008, at 5:09 PM, justifiedright wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whaa I'll recall these sage words the next time you fell strongly about treatment of you by someone. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now this is treatment of you, personally? Oy. As an American taking part in the Columbus Day celebration whom Keady calls liars, certainly. He was talking about me. As a Christian listening to a non-profit declare the word Christmas as bad, certainly. It's my identity and culture under attack. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...and a Fava bean to keep in my coin purse. Legend has it that a Catholic woman with a .Fava bean in her purse will never be broke... There's the answer. What's really amazing is the extent the people kill themselves to give to their kids during the holiday season and more or less threaten them if you're not good...no presents... Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
http://www.amazon.com/Lies-Teacher-About-Christopher- Columbus/dp/1565840089 my daughter was around 14 when she realized I was the easter bunny. She put two and two together and realized the can of coke came from her easter basket - that I was drinking the day before easter... hopefully no kids are reading this...but did you ever notice santa comes in all different colors, shapes and sizes and there could be one in every mall or street corner in NYC??? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
Christmas is German. On Nov 10, 2008, at 5:30 PM, justifiedright wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now this is treatment of you, personally? Oy. As an American taking part in the Columbus Day celebration whom Keady calls liars, certainly. He was talking about me. As a Christian listening to a non-profit declare the word Christmas as bad, certainly. It's my identity and culture under attack. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
--- I just left wegman's. All those christmas trees in the lobby. All those christmas things for sale. Nothing for Hanukkah. We keep it simple. Easy chicken parm dinner. Weg's chicken, Weg's tomato basil sauce (ap related) (.99) and already shredded mozz. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
It is my culture too. It was probably more the booze than Christianity. --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Jersey Shore John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Jersey Shore John [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 6:39 PM Christianity destroyed my Irish culture in Ireland, so... whatever. On Nov 10, 2008, at 6:19 PM, Jersey Shore John wrote: Christmas is German. On Nov 10, 2008, at 5:30 PM, justifiedright wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, Jersey Shore John jerseyshorejohn@ ... wrote: Now this is treatment of you, personally? Oy. As an American taking part in the Columbus Day celebration whom Keady calls liars, certainly. He was talking about me. As a Christian listening to a non-profit declare the word Christmas as bad, certainly. It's my identity and culture under attack. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
Christianity destroyed my Irish culture in Ireland, so... whatever. On Nov 10, 2008, at 6:19 PM, Jersey Shore John wrote: Christmas is German. On Nov 10, 2008, at 5:30 PM, justifiedright wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now this is treatment of you, personally? Oy. As an American taking part in the Columbus Day celebration whom Keady calls liars, certainly. He was talking about me. As a Christian listening to a non-profit declare the word Christmas as bad, certainly. It's my identity and culture under attack. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget
People do love to hate you Tommy, but I think you like it too. simple questions would have avoided the banter, which was pretty funny and gave me a great belly laugh. I think it would have been more fair for you to address the entire council on this at a meeting. You'd never see any of the other councilmen responding here. Keady is no messiah to me, but his continuous efforts at outreach and his attention to transparency are precisely what governments need. As well as the citizens to pay attention. For those of you who love to hate Tommy, and I admit he is a baiter, Tommy is not way off in this if in fact the word Christmas has been somehow banned from city usage. Jews would flip, African Americans would flip and Gay people would flip. PC paranoia can make people lean toward fascism just as the right does. Watch that the oppressee in you is not becoming the oppressor. Get over your tribal self. If you have questioned Columbus day you must tolerate questions of Kwanzaa. Did that guy really do that? I will look it up. If anyone knows this to be untrue please speak. Tommy, human beings are violent creatures. We are getting better all the time and there is no need to deny colonization was ugly. You can still celebrate America and tell a little more of the truth about it. I know it has ugliness AND beauty, just like everyone of us. Jim's suggestion for going over items line by line would, I think force all this energy into something more productive and free from personalizing (which should be called ego baiting). Probably be interesting as well. That way we could actually know what is being spent on these events, if anything. I really did enjoy reading this thread. Tommy and Jim's intelligence and frat boy spats, the gang up on Tommy, Franks funny visuals, Sharon's description of Kwanzaa made me teary, Oakdorf's hilarious interjections and the grunts from jersy john, mike and jack..BTW Jack, Tommy got you on that. Really funny. Much better than anyone else's story. I need to express my genuine affection and gratitude for this community and it is the thankful season. So thank you! --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Mike Hemeon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is my culture too. It was probably more the booze than Christianity. --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Jersey Shore John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Jersey Shore John [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Keady on Kwanza, Christmas and the City Budget To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 6:39 PM Christianity destroyed my Irish culture in Ireland, so... whatever. On Nov 10, 2008, at 6:19 PM, Jersey Shore John wrote: Christmas is German. On Nov 10, 2008, at 5:30 PM, justifiedright wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, Jersey Shore John jerseyshorejohn@ ... wrote: Now this is treatment of you, personally? Oy. As an American taking part in the Columbus Day celebration whom Keady calls liars, certainly. He was talking about me. As a Christian listening to a non-profit declare the word Christmas as bad, certainly. It's my identity and culture under attack. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
