Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Ian Reed via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @Dark, I am of the same mind.I think providing players with a map editor and tools to create new types of units, skills, effects, items, etc, can lead to a lot of outstanding creations.Further, I think that an engine that both uses that approach, and also adds a programming language that is simple and straightforward, along with a game engine API that handles a lot of the low level programming, would provide people who love to build using the map editor a smaller learning curve to get in to coding the actual rules of the game.I have a lot of thoughts on this, and it is what my next project is focused on.That said, finding the right balance of simplicity for newcomers and flexibility of creation for experienced users is a challenging design problem.Unfortunately my time for working on this was very limited for all of 2019, though I am getting more time for it this year. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503401/#p503401 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? One other thing I think is rather interesting, is when games have included level editors etc this gives people a very good chance to develop more things on their own. Take tactical battle, adventure at C or sound rts as prime examples. I've always wanted myself to create a textual rpg, but whenever i've looked at tools they've either been too general and require me too gain a lot of preliminary knowledge, or have been too specific to other purposes, such as the IF creation languages or choice script. now, if someone were to create a modern system like Eamon, which started off with the basic tools available but let users define all the rpg things like weapons, character stats, npcs, monsters, treasure, events and locations, I think we'd be seeing a lot more people get into the programming side of things, heck, at one time there was a plan to make an entombed level creator to do just that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503353/#p503353 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? One other thing I think is rather interesting, is when games have included level editors etc this gives people a very good chance to develop more things on their own. Take tactical battle, adventure at C or sound rts as prime examples. I've always wanted myself to create a textual rpg, but whenever i've looked at tools they've either been too general and require me too gain a lot of preliminary knowledge, or have been too specific to other purposes, such as the IF creation languages or choice script. now, if someone were to create a modern system like Eamon, which started off with the basic tools available but let users define all the rpg things like weapons, npcs, monsters, treasure, events and rooms, I think we'd be seeing a lot more people get into the programming side of things, heck, at one time there was a plan to make an entombed level creator to do just that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503353/#p503353 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : devinprater via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @Nocturnus: Don't forget about audio books, typewriters, s and Siri. Yes, I agree that teaching more blind people to code would be great. However, not everyone can code well, and that will need to be stated, because many blind people who feel confident in using computers, like me, will think that they can just intuit how to make a game, and it really can be hard even grasping how the process of coding is done, keeping up with everything that is going on in a program, and finding freaking good utilities, especially on Windows, for making a blind programmer's life as easy as possible, while still leaving the actual code up to the programmer. And I don't mean GUI game creators either, those take too long to fiddle with. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503340/#p503340 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? One more quick observation and then I'm probably going to have to just bow out of this topic.If one huge problem happens to be that we have sighted developers who are developing games for blind people and don't precisely know how to tackle the issue, and blind people seem to have ideas on how to tackle the issue, wouldn't it be worth considering that perhaps it is time we go about enabling more blind people to develop rather than telling them they can't?As I understand it, BGT was supposed to be that kind of attempt. We can argue all day and all night for the next kagillion centuries as to whether or not it was an absolute flop but the attempt was there. We similarly placed a ton of hope in the idea of dragonflame, but to my knowledge little has been done with that, and what I'm hearing now is more so-called experienced devs going out of their way to bash anyone or anything that develops something else with a script pack.To be straightforward, I would love it and think it would be nice if people would pick up a language and use it to its full potential, but I realize that kind of thing takes time to learn, and ideas don't linger. I don't see how this is any different from being someone who has an idea for a good, even great soundtrack, not having the bucks to go and learn how to conduct and orchestra, then the hopes of being hired to an orchestra just for that purposes, so instead obtaining a midi controler or other keyboard and synth libraries to go along with it. I'd love it if people would understand how much time goes into development of anything, but that understanding won't necessarily bring us great games or a vast amount of them any time soon. Enable people to work and you might see a multitude great enough that even the mainstream community is gonna have to look at it.What evidence to I have to back up that statement? Our vision issues invented the record player; our vision issues contributed to the rise of pocket PC and subsequently to smart technology and mobile computing. Our vision issues are issues that have revolutionized some of the greatest aspects of life if only by accident, but they've worked to our advantage and can keep doing that if we enable more people rather than hamper them with the kind of nonsensical negative commentary so many are seeing, and which I assure you has more power than many hiding behind the curtain of annonymity wish to let on. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503259/#p503259 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I haven't played RedSword, so I can't say how the accelleration is handled there. For me, when playing the original Sonic the Hedgehog bgt version (was there an accessible Sonic 3 and Knuckles that was released?), it was difficult to judge accelleration due to the lack of a footstep sound, so it was difficult to guage distance for how far that someone would jump, if that makes sense. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503233/#p503233 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I've messed with acceleration / deceleration in Redsword and EC, and Mason's 2D Platformer has acceleration. When I did it, people were just confused, though that might be because my mutant superpower is to imbue whatever I do with confusiocity. (And this topic got me to play Sonic 3K, then Redsword, and holycrap I forgot how intentionally hard Redsword is . )But yeah, I get that's just an example of the simple sorts of technical things sighted devs take for granted, which blind devs ignore. Can you imagine how a game where jumping is a boolean would look like? ... They'd still animate it, probably. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503231/#p503231 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @Assault freak, I know there isn't one specific scripting language used by Japanese developers, but I do know there are a number of specific game creation, and indeed text game creation languages around in Japan, even in graphical indi game terms, there is a gap with Japanese titles (look at cave story as a prime example).Also, I'm afraid that a lot of indi graphical games do! simply just animate something and stick it in the game as far as I gather, indeed often indi games will get mediocre marks for gameplay, but be praised on animation, and there are far more people who create art or animation as a matter of course than create sounds.I do agree knolege of mainstream games would be helpful to the community, but I don't think here it is a case of setting out to create audio dark souls or the witcher, (awesome though that might be), but simply of understanding a few basic things about game mechanics which are obvious from a graphical perspective but less obvious in audio. As I have said before, I'd love to see a basic, superliam style side scroller, use some of the acceleration and jump mechanics from Mario, indeed audio prince of persia (original Dos prince of persia), would be more than possible I think. To an extent that did occur in tomb hunter, and of course the bk series had actual attack properties, so I think the ideas are slowly getting there. I also do agree though, that all too often when sighted developers create audiogames without any knolege of what has come before, you do tend to end up with bopit style combat, though myself I tend to assume at least part of this is because sighted developers find the idea of reacting to sound and navigating in first person via sound sources so novel a concept in and of itself, that they don't tend to go much beyond that. Again though, this might well change as more developers work on audiogames, I'm already told Bulwark does something different (I need to try the game myself), and developers of the vale are hopefully already taking these sorts of comments on board, so we will see. in general I actually am far more optimistic about the state of audiogames and audio game development than I used to be, which is why I would like to see a bit more constructive critique and valuing legitimate devs for the ideas we have, and a bit less of the bashing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503225/#p503225 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @Assault freak, I know there isn't one specific scripting language used by Japanese developers, but I do know there are a number of specific game creation, and indeed text game creation languages around in Japan, even in graphical indi game terms, there is a gap with Japanese titles (look at cave story as a prime example).Also, I'm afraid that a lot of indi graphical games do! simply just animate something and stick it in the game as far as I gather, indeed often indi games will get mediocre marks for gameplay, but be praised on animation. I do agree knolege of mainstream games would be helpful to the community, but I don't think here it is a case of setting out to create audio dark souls or the witcher, (awesome though that might be), but simply of understanding a few basic things about game mechanics which are obvious from a graphical perspective but less obvious in audio. As I have said before, I'd love to see a basic, superliam style side scroller, use some of the acceleration and jump mechanics from Mario, indeed audio prince of persia (original Dos prince of persia), would be more than possible I think. To an extent that did occur in tomb hunter, and of course the bk series had actual attack properties, so I think the ideas are slowly getting there. I also do agree though, that all too often when sighted developers create audiogames without any knolege of what has come before, you do tend to end up with bopit style combat, though myself I tend to assume at least part of this is because sighted developers find the idea of reacting to sound and navigating in first person via sound sources so novel a concept in and of itself, that they don't tend to go much beyond that. Again though, this might well change as more developers work on audiogames, I'm already told Bulwark does something different (I need to try the game myself), and developers of the vale are hopefully already taking these sorts of comments on board, so we will see. in general I actually am far more optimistic about the state of audiogames and audio game development than I used to be, which is why I would like to see a bit more constructive critique and valuing legitimate devs for the ideas we have, and a bit less of the bashing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503225/#p503225 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : assault_freak via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Gotta respectfully disagree with Dark here about availability of tools and strategies being one of the two reasons indie games developed by sighted developers being more complex than their audio counterparts. One, I don't think the Japanese people use one specific scripting engine that is like BGT. They use varying programming languages and, in the case of Galaxy Laboratory, we have developed our own tools to make certain tasks easier.I think a big part of it is the imagination of a lot of people developing games for the blind whether they are blind themselves, or whether they are sighted developers imagining what blind gamers would enjoy. There is a reason that most shooter titles developed by blind people consist of point and shoot, because in the minds of most totally blind people who were born that way and have never watched an action movie visually or at least had someone describe it think of shooting in those terms. This is also why the extent of weapon functionality only differs in terms of the distance they can shoot at or the firing rate.Same with action games. A Blind Legend could easily have transitioned from an open world to an arena based fighting scenario during brawls, but that isn't the case because developers didn't imagine blind people being able to fight that way. Contrastly, Japanese and Chinese developers play mainstream games, think of the type of game they want to create and are willing to take the time to do it properly and hunt down the resources. Look t the credits page for shadow line, for instance. All the sounds are either bought or free royalty free sounds from website, same with the music. It's not only the graphical implementation of that huge cyber mutant monkey that has to hapen, there also has to be sounds to go with it, as well as a developer who can imagine what they want it to look like or what they want it to sound like. It isn't just a atter of finding someone who can draw it up and then slap it into the game. Imagination has to be from the developer first and foremost, and the fact is that the more quality games you play, the more creative ideas will surface... and then it's another process to put all those creative ideas into a cohesive package. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503197/#p503197 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @nidza, I never said the blindfold games were the best thing ever, and for the record I agree with many of your comments, I was just making the point that even something which is regarded by most of the community as sort of universally bad can have it's good points, thus an un nuanced universally negative attitude won't help anyone. Indeed, it's interesting you mention Acefire, since back when it was first released, there was a right royal ruckus on the audeasy list, with so many people declaring the game was the worst thing ever! and doing a huge amount of bashing, especially since originally the game was commercial. At that point though, Tom ward stepped in and pretty much said many of the things said in this topic, EG constructive criticism is good, bashing is bad, and people should really calm down.As to, "what is a mainstream game" you bring up an interesting point. I have been using "mainstream games" here, to refer to graphical games produced by majorly commercial companies with commercial standard budgets and marketing. There are however, especially these days, a massive load of independent games, produced on platforms from Steam to Ios with pretty much similar budget and time restrictions to audiogames development. The difference unfortunately, and the reason so much more has been done with graphical commercial games, is I believe a combination of the fact that firstly, graphical indi development has been around for such a long time, there are far more tools and strategies which aide developers, and secondly that it's simply easier to produce a unique graphical game.To explain a bit. Firstly, look at what happens in the audiogames community when tools like BGT or the scripting engines used by Japanese developers are around. You get an influx of games. Yes, many messy practice projects, but also games like crazy party and a lot of Oriol's work. I'm not going to bring up the BGT obsolescence question again, but I do find it interesting just how much of an explosion of development there was, when the tools were available. Secondly, another point to consider, is that audiogames are essentially limited by sound availability, where graphical games and text games are not. If you want a giant cyber mutant monkey in your graphical game, you just need someone to draw one, and then the coding chops to both animate it, and have it intigrate into your games physics and scripting. if however you want one in audio, it's not like there are loads of monkey sound available, or you can ask someone to create one. There are obviously various ways around the problem, using text, using creative narration, having people imitate monkeys etc, but none of these solutions are half as simple as those available to people making graphical games. One thing I will note though, is that this landscape is changing rather, especially with the advent of alexa etc. Indeed, I'm afraid as someone who plays alexa games on a daily basis and has seen some quite interesting things done with the system, I don't agree that there is nothing of the quality of at least graphical indi games, or even a good few audiogames, which is another reason I tend to see the future of audiogames coming with indi developers. But we will see, I still agree with Kenshiro's point, audiogames will get there in the end, we just need to give it time and enjoy the ride. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503190/#p503190 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : nidza07 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Dark, first regarding blindfold games, you say a few good systems? Really? Do you personally think that out of 80 games having few good games is enough? I don't. I'd rather have 15 good games than 80 games but out of those 80 10 worth playing. His good games are pong, breakout, the one you mentioned and a couple others. Is it normal that in 2020 you can buy tic tac toe? You can buy connect four? Buying deal or no deal with almost no exciting sound effects? Those games are free on Google/Amazon devices and he is making money from basic games. That's not acceptable in my opinion. I compare his games to former Jim Kitchen games. He also had quite a large number, with two differnces. First, his games were free. Second and more important, there were many more actually decent and very good games. Even if I ignore the fact blindfold games have very little value and say ok they are all very good, every game you install you first have to spend 5 minutes configuring your voices because someone has an amazing idea that Samantha sounds great with a high pitch. It sounds terrible and should not be the default. Guess what though? You have to configure it 80 times if you want to try out all the games. If that's not enough, the voice settings menu is trying to be so simplistic that it actually ends up being a nightmare to use. If you didn't try customising voices, I suggest you to do so and compare what will be faster, changing your Voiceover voice or changing the voice in one of the blindfold games as well as adjusting it's speech rate and pitch the way you want them to be. Anyways enough about blindfold games, let's discuss some other more interesting points. Audiogames can be unique in the way you described them, on Alexa devices or Google home, I do however consider that type of game mainstream as well, since not only are they usually made by sighted developers, there target audience is not specifically blind people. Even then, give those games to a sighted player and you'll see how quickly they'll get bored, they might spent a day playing around and that's it. I doubt any audiogame could interest someone who's not blind for a longer period of time, not talking about standard board/card/dice games. Obviously there are many different types of gamers, and there probably are players who do enjoy the type of games I mentioned, but even then usually playing with family at home or with a group of friends. They are enjoyable because of the way speech recognition works, and in the past such games were a fantasy. Now they exist, and they are here, so we'll see what the future brings. Regarding negativity, people are mostly ok when a project is clearly marked as early alpha and isn't advertised as a new release ready to play when it's in fact not near that point. While I personally wasn't around when Philip made his first games, I can tell you that to this day I still ocasionally have fun with the early PB games, dark destroyer is in fact one I played recently. Even with a very simple gameplay, it makes up with great music and sounds as well as being quite challenging for that time. Similarly, a blind legend might seem simple too, and is in fact relatively easy to beat, the sound design is what makes that game enjoyable and definitely worth playing. So if you feel like you can't make anything revolutionary in regards to gameplay, maybe you don't even have to. Make up for that in other areas, sound design, atmosphere, maybe multy player support depending on how the game works, and things like that. For example, I probably wouldn't care for a game like acefire, but it had online support so was worth playing a couple of times with friends. If it was offline, for me that would be too simple. Even blindfold games, I'm a huge fan of card games and I like trick taking games such as spades, hearts, but it's not worth playing with that terrible UI. If it used native iOS interfaces and had online support, that would make many of his games much better. So that's a very important factor for newly released games. Not everyone can create AHC or Manamon, but everyone can have enough common sense to ask themselves wait a second, would I personally enjoy this game for longer than a couple of runs? If yes, then is the time to consider releasing it to the public. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503185/#p503185 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @JaceK, not sure how it is now, but I do know that it's part of the idea of the new releases room that people can post early alpha or beta versions of games and get feedback on them, obviously it's then up to the developer to let their potential players know how finished their game is, and present it well enough that people will get a good idea of what to expect, since I don't deny that if the first post of a topic just says: "Game here, u klz monsters, go play it" I'm not likely to play it either.what bothers me however, are when developers, especially those new to the community present a game, either a beta version for feedback, or even a finished game, and just get a universally hostile "this is too simple" type of response from people, or still worse, when developers present a game which actually has genuine merits but all they receive is extremely critical feedback.As I said, it was quite telling to me that the very first review posted of a hero's call was unreservedly negative.Another thing worth remembering, is that frequently with the very nature of coding, simple games can blow up into something hugely more complex. If anyone remembers the two huts zombie arena first version of swamp, they will very much see what I mean.This is another reason why I try myself to be as positive as possible, since you never know what a given developer will create next, or how a project might snowball into being something fantastic in the future. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503181/#p503181 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @Dark:If that early alpha had been put in the devs room and clearly labelled as such and explained what was/wasn't there and what you got in that release. I personally would be fine with it. it's when things like that get put in new releases that grinds my gears. Since I tend to assume new releases is for /finished/ games. Not prototypes.Maybe the solution is an early access type system. Yes, the devs room can fill that but it's not really meant for that. If, for instance, that Entombed alpha was put in this new room, I'd be receptive to it if it was updated along the way to where it is now.I just feel like Dark hit on something. There is a huge difference between somebody releasing a concept and being all hey guys new game link is here go playand a dev coming in with an idea that they don't execute well.That being said, personally I'm willing to give the dev a pass if they present their idea well and are receptive to feedback. But I'm biased against what I call 'lazy' game development. Part of that's auto assuming things about a project based on who and what they're making. Like oh, a BGT project by somebody and their English isn't great, I'll skip this because experience has taught me it'll not be that good, sorta thing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503175/#p503175 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? There are a couple of interesting things here. firstly yes, as tunmi13 said, there are audiogames that do unique things which cannot be done with graphics. Certainly not all by any means, but a reasonable proportion, indeed we're seeing more and more of this sort of thing now with the Alexa and Ipod generation, indeed I remember a friend of mine who was a huge fan of the doom series who thought shades of doom was far more disturbing, simply because of what you don't! see, and the need to navigate by sound alone. The problem of course, is that those aspects of experimental audio and story telling also seem to get taken up by people with less experience of audio gaming, which leads to yet more aurally rich, but relatively easy going games similar to A blind legend or HEARtREaD, though it's also interesting to note there are far more of these efforts, especially with Alexa these days. Whilst Nidza is also correct that there will always be negativity, at the same time I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that there is more negativity around now than there used to be, or to note that yes, these attitudes do harm the community if they go unchecked.I'm not speaking here of kids who post an ill thought out practice game and say "go play it" I'm speaking here of genuine developers who turn up with a concept, perhaps haven't created audiogames before, and then get nothing but "this sucks, it's too simple!" type of responses.I don't know how many people played the early alphas of Entombed, whe you had one map, only goblins to fight, and only bronze items to equip, but had those been placed on the forum today I'm pretty sure there would have been a storm of negativity, ditto with some of the early games of now well established devs like Philip Bennifall. Again, there will always be negativity, but I do think it might be helpful if more people who are! in a position to know better commented a little more responsibly when they can, since as Cae said, games development is far from easy, and any game is something people have put time and trouble into. To take a very contravercial example, it's rather popular to hate on the blindfold games, and I certainly would not disagree that there are some hugely major design flaws and less good pricing decisions, EG paying for soundpacks or control schema options. all that being said, as someone who has actually played! a good few of the blindfold games (all of those in the db), there are actually some really interesting and unique analogue control mechanics in there, and some rather nice uses of physics too, (blindfold pool I was moderately impressed with for example). Then of course, there is the attitude and position of the player. whilst waiting for my lady's radiotherapy sessions, I've been playing a lot of Iphone games, and actually space encounter and blind gladiator, even though both are fast action titles with basic stereo targeting, have actually been rather good, easy going enough to just pick up and hammer away at, with a rich enough audio ladnscape to catch my attention, without being super tough or requiring me to concentrate too much, especially with the need to swing the phone around rather than hit keys (I think both would be less interesting to play on pc). Neither is a ground breaking game, heck, even in the field of arcade action games, something like Feer or audio wizards is probably better put together, but both conveniently scratch an itch I might have whilst sitting around a hospital waiting room for half an hour and wanting something to keep my hands/ears/attention busy.Again, this is where good feedback helps, as well as good game experience, since whilst yes, I'd love that audio final fantasy 7 as much as anyone, even if we had it, I probably wouldn't want to play it absolutely all the time . URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503171/#p503171 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @CAE: Last big game I was excited for? Dishonored 1. Fantastic setting and fun gameplay. But the Trials of Dunwall DLC was way better. Bite size mini challenge maps. Though agreed, I'm not excited by game announcements, I'm thinking Yeah...buthow badly is it gonna get bastardized by publishers and their whims then? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503126/#p503126 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Oh, I still play Genesis games comparably often to audio games, in spite of the horrible accessibility. A SoniFy-esque GenZ mod would be nice. We could probably get a generic detection script for plane-scrolling, since that's built into the system rather than the games (I think there are a couple that ignore this feature and do it programmatically, but those are few). Combine scroll detection with audio landmarks, and half the games I got Vegas'd out of become much more playable.)Heck, if I could make Sonic or Tails of how level layouts are stored in RAM, I'd've made a savestate reader for Sonic a long time ago. It's more confusing because the algorithm changes between games (hence the weird things that you can find with debug mode in Sonic 3). All I've found in RAM maps is the data for what is directly in front of Sonic, but surely it's not drawing everything on screen from ROM? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503122/#p503122 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I dont know, I still generally prefer mainstream games over audio games. Even the ones that I like in the audiogame community are not strictly audio games, like rar2 and war sim. My favorite audiogames are primarily those that replicate the mainstream modern retro style, but maybe that's just me. I grew up playing mainstream games without sight, and after 30 or so years as a mainstream gamer, old habits and preferences still kinda die hard, and few audiogames scratch that nostalgic itch, but as Dark pointed out a while back, that number of option is surely growing. Audiogame evolution is happening, it's just slow right now, and people are just getting impatient, but just give it some time, because as accessibility improves, and as more people who have not experienced the world beyond audiogames start taking chances and finding inspiration, things can only get better for us, as it has already been doing. Honestly, I would have killed to have shadow line back when zelda was still fresh on the nes, snes and gameboy, and I would have killed for crazy party way back when mario party was storming the n64, but I'm happy that I don't have to wait for that anymore, and am generally I'm satisfied just to see things take its course. Good things come to those who wait, after all, and wanting too much only breeds dissatisfaction, which defeats the purpose of a game, which is to provide entertainment. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503033/#p503033 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I can't remember a mainstream game sounding exciting since Skyrim. I'd probably at least try Assassin's Creed III and PS4 Spider-man (OK, so Marvel/DC games in general, I guess). Let's rephrase, then: I struggle to remember any compelling-sounding games that don't license a property from another medium since somewhere around 2012. And the only vaguely accessible licensed games are Battle for the Grid and DBFighterZ, which I probably should be halfway excited about, but somehow BftG sounds like it'd be painful, and I'll just watch FighterZ on Youtube and go play Super DBZ or Super Butouden or Hyper Dimention.I'm not sure if anyone's noticed, but developing complex, high-quality, narrative-rich games is hard. It's not just knowing how to code, or having a good idea, or having the best sounds. It's all of these, and then a hundred other things. If one person has all of those necessary skills, then they are probably Batman. And can you even imagine what a game made by Batman would be like? It would probably be hard and merciless and narratively unsatisfying, designed to improve the skills of whichever sidekick he lets play it, while also being a trap for any criminals who gain access. If you're thinking something like, "I want to play that game!", you have clearly never spent more than 5min as Robin. It's not the game we need, but it is the game we deserve, or something?Why don't I just do writing? That's so much simpler!What I'm saying is, I threw together an audio game version of a board game I made up about 11 months ago, got to the point I was satisfied with it, and am not releasing it because it's still not alpha-worthy. Turns don't work right, there's no AI for offline bots, there's no online, none of the pathfinding-related tricks I wanted to use work, and neither do most of the co-op tricks. And I got carried away with the content, went way past where it was supposed to go, and now it's possible to wind up with a pet dragon that sometimes saves you from demons (it's supposed to be a space adventure!). Clearly, Batman I am not.What does it even mean to be more like mainstream games? Is that even a good thing, or are we just feeling left out? DBZenoverse sounds awesome, until you realize that the controls are a mess and even though they can alter the plot willy nilly, even though it was based on the much more creative DBOnline MMORPG, it's another rehash of the exact same Raditz-to-Buu crap we've been getting since Super Saiya Densetsu (at least that one introduced Tsumuri and Mai-ma).What is a man? A miserable pile of secrets!What is a game? A miserable pile of time-consuming spaghetti-code.I'ma go play the Punisher arcade game with my four-year-old nephew. That can't possibly go wrong, can it? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503024/#p503024 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I guess that's the future, and I guess it's here, and I guess that's that.Negativity will never help any community, but it's going to help a smaller community much less. Round up enough people motivated enough to do something about this wonderful mess we've created amongst ourselves and then we can talk. In this situation? Our strength will only succeed collectively. It lies in numbers! Majority is always going to rule! I'm not saying the majority is currently being negative, but I do feel the majority is currently too busy doing other things and thus not talking enough about resolution, leaving those who speak negatively as the loudest in the party.And no, you can't get them all riled up in the right way by calling them buffoons because they don't currently agree with you. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502994/#p502994 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : nidza07 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Lol, that must be a joke right? Someone actually thinks audio games are better and more fun? Let's be real, we play them because we have to and because there's nothing better. I'm not saying they are bad, for what these guys are managing to pull off mostly alone they are amazing, but far from any competition with mainstream gaming, especially gaming of the current time. As for the topic itself, I don't personally agree all that much with his writing stile either, but there are some valid points. Just play blindfold games, all you need to know. There are so many similar games, and they aren't even free games. Out of 80 games they have, if you can bring up 10 decent games that would be amazing. Even 10 is a small number out of 80 or whatever number he has now. And that's not the only developer. The best part is however he is sighted, so he could totally make something better if he wanted to. Can someone for example tell me major differences between Griff 1 and 2? But they are two separate games you have to buy. I do however completely agree all the criticism should be constructive, but no developer should realisticly expect that. It won't ever happen. Mainstream community, blind community, whatever community, you won't get only constructive feedback. First, there are people who can't speak English well but enough to say that the game sucks. Second, kids play games. Now, kids even release games. There's the side of giving constructive feedback, but there's also the side of constructively releasing your games. How can you take a game seriously when someone says oh here's a new games, you have to kill enemies, link here, enjoy. Or even better, I know it has bugs but I'll fix them, so have fun. We've been getting so much of that stuff lately. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502988/#p502988 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-20
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AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : tunmi13 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Going to have to agree with Dark's first post on this topic. I feel like we blind individuals just assume that just because sighted people are getting all the fun, it means that our games need to be exactly like theirs. Trust me, if audiogames were the same as video games, life would probably be boring for the most part. Even my brother, who's sighted, is starting to tire of 2K and Fortnite.Audiogames are unique. Let's keep that uniqueness. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502978/#p502978 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : tunmi13 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Going to have to agree with Dark's first post on this topic. I feel like we blind individuals just assume that just because sighted people are getting also; the fun, it means that our gmes need to be exactly like σ. Trust me, if audiogames were the same as video games, life would probably be boring for the most part. Even my brother, who's sighted, is starting to tire of 2K and Fortnite. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502978/#p502978 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I used to physically annotate a hole bunch of faqs to play mainstream games, however I always had to make sure that the main thrust of the game was at least playable with my level of vision, EG I could see the character, environment and enemies, or the basic mechanics in fights, even if I used faqs to read scripts, and either menu counting or seeing highlighting to handle things like inventory management or level select screens. the hardest for me I think were the mega man zero games, both in terms of difficulty of the games themselves, and in terms of having to literally annotate several game faqs and scripts, given that each game contains over 80 cyber elves, plus weapons, levelling up, forms and goodness knows what else, as well as a full scale script. I am still proud of the fact I finished the zero games and metroid fusion, but I'd never claim I had equal access to them, even with my level of site. That is why now, I find the idea of playing 3D games where I can't even get basic elements like characters and enemies a step back, not that people shouldn't, indeed as I've said before it's a testament to people's persistance people have learned to play games through menu counting and timing and memorisation, but for myself, if I want to play the game, I want a challenge I can actually do myself and succeed at, rather than just having to run through someone else's faq and play timing and guess work.This is what actually got me into accessible games in the first place, that and being able to play game types I couldn't previously.I also suspect my patience fo struggling with mainstream games has fallen off slightly, after all as Conor said, a sighted person can just pick up a game and play it, and so far we've only achieved that level of access in a few graphical titles. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502936/#p502936 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-20
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AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : kaigoku via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I agree with connor142. I remember when I was growing up, I had more patience for memorizing menus, memorizing routes, and memorizing how many steps it took to get x and jump over y without dying. lolAnd don't get me wrong, I had fun doing it at the time. However, I don't really have that patience anymore.And like some of you, I even managed to complete a couple Pokemon games without much sighted assistance. But my dream of the days when we can play a mainstream title that is not a fighting game, or a music game, or even something that doesn't require mods, is long gone. Frankly, I think it's a little unfair. But as the saying goes, "life isn't fair." So, I try not to let it get to me anymore.Before some of you get onto me for leaving out other titles or genres that may be more accessible, etc, I just want to acknowledge that I know there are strides being made to make some games more accessible. That's a good feeling! But I think I was discouraged earlier on, enough to where I can't bring myself to try these new advancements. And maybe it also has to do that I find myself very busy nowadays.Anyway, I'm not trying to complain. I'm just pointing out that there was a time when I was more excited about playing mainstream games. I still remember the feeling when I got my first game console about 20 years ago. I was so excited! It was my Nintendo 64, which I still have to this day. Then, I gradually moved to other gaming systems. It wasn't until I was a little older that I found the audio games website. I still remember my excitement when I found that there were games made that blind people could play. I remember spending many hours playing things like SoundRTS, the Draconis games, etc.Meanwhile, my friends were playing the latest and greatest in war games, final fantasy, Legend of Zelda, and other popular titles. There was no way my audio games could compare! But I was still happy that I didn't have to rely on anyone's assistance to play these simple, but entertaining-in-their-own-way titles! I think that's why I stuck around, and am still sticking around.Sorry for my little recollection reply here, but in my opinion, I think it's important that we don't quite give up on the audio games scene yet. And who knows, maybe there will be a point when they'll become obsolete because of new accessibility innovations, and we all choose to move on. But mainstream games have earned the popular, and arguably accurate, title of being "video games". And I think this warrants a defense for audio games still being relevant. We can get into the science and psychology of auditory vs visual modalities of games, but that's not the point. At the end of the day, we all just want some entertainment, whether to destress or to kill time. I'll leave all that research and science stuff to the smarter people out there, who will hopefully help in making strides in this up hill battle of making "video games" accessible. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502925/#p502925 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : devinprater via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Shoot, I'd love an updated Super Mario, just maybe in cross platform Python. I loved feeling the focused area in braille, and think games should totally do that more often. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502912/#p502912 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Slightly for-topic, @Cae_Jones brought it up: will a Sonic the hedgehog remke(?) be finished? It was cool for what it was, and I wonder if it will get past the first two zones. However, seeing as it's in BGT, that may not be the case. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502901/#p502901 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @59 ... The Koolaid Man? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502895/#p502895 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @58:Okay who gave you comic kool-aid again? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502894/#p502894 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? My plan is to go back in time and sneak accessibility into early Sega games, and convince Toei to fix the horrible horrible Filler during the Freeza fight while I'm at it. Presumably, I will manifest in 1980s Japan as a creepy telekinetic child during an Akira-esque experiment, and this will somehow lead to Sega and Toei involving me in the creative processes. That makes sense, right?Or maybe I'd have to go all the way back to the late 19th century, and set off some complex plot involving Mark Twain, Nicola Tesla, and the ruins of Goiogouen to get Theodore Roosevelt elected in place of Woodrow Wilson, thereby preventing the rise of both the Nazis and the bolsheviks, as well as the second KKK. I have no idea how this will result in more accessible games, rather than preventing video games from existing entirely, but I'm sure that I'll be able to team up with Tesla and Walt Disney to make it happen, somehow.While rereading some 1880-1910 literature for to prepare for this mission, I came across casual mention of a fairy orgy in Peter Pan, and neither Wikipedia nor Wiktionary thought fit to provide the pre-war definition of the word. Luckily, TV Tropes had the explanation. So that was weird.Hopefully, I'll be able to send some of that content back to this timeline, though there's no telling if the formats will be legible. So look forward to those alternate timeline filler episodes showing up on Youtube, or something. I doubt it'd be easy to get the AT games on Steam, but I'll give it a shot, I guess, if I can remember for a century or so. Remember to ask if I also managed to alter the evolution of the word "orgy" in that timeline. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502890/#p502890 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : connor142 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I'd probably play more playable mainstream stuff at this point, too. Once I finish manamon 2 (in the next thousand years or so) there won't be anything I haven't seriously played in the audio gaming scene. I just don't want to sit around memorising 123456 menus, OCR the screen every 5 seconds to get stats, story dialogue and whatnot, or constantly have to have a gamefaqs guide open that tells me to go 42 steps forward, press the right arrow 999 times to turn 3,14159 degrees to the east, and then do a tap dance and sacrifice a unicorn to find some secret item or some random npc I need to talk to to continue the story. The people who wrote these guides didn't have to read a guide themselves to properly play the game, why should I have to do it? Why do I have to go on this forum, look through hundreds of posts on the mk11 topic, and then complete the tutorials in the game by exactly following the instructions contained within? I'd rather wait for accessibility standards to improve, which will doubtlessly happen at this point, and replay some of the better audio games in the meantime. Or, you know, focus on shortening my reading/watching list, which is an impossible task since it grows every day . There's no reason why audio game accessibility can't become as standardized as audio description for movies and series is today on most streaming platforms. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502872/#p502872 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : connor142 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I'd probably play more playable mainstream stuff at this point, too. Once I finish manamon 2 (in the next thousand years or so) there won't be anything I haven't seroiusly played in the audio gaming scene. I just don't want to sit around memorising 123456 menus, OCR the screen every 5 seconds to get stats, story dialogue and whatnot, or constantly have to have a gamefaqs guide open that tells me to go 42 steps forward, press the right arrow 999 times to turn 3,14149 degrees to the east, and then do a tap dance and sacrifice a unicorn to find some secret item or some random npc I need to talk to to continue the story. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502872/#p502872 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-19
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AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : tayo . bethel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @52 Point taken. For the poster who hopes audiogame will be replaced by accessible regular games, that’s a dream I’ve been having ever since I started playing games on a regular basis. When I hear about games like the Witcher or Middle Earth games or FInal Fantasy, I feel frustrated because those are the kinds of games I want to play, and most are not accessible. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502845/#p502845 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-19
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AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : assault_freak via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @54. Fair point, and I agree. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502804/#p502804 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @52:Slightly related. But I do think comparing like for like is justified. Like comparing Redspot to a /comparable/ 90s FPS (Doom/Hexedn/etc) or Swamp to DayZ or any other budget zombie FPS, or Manaman 1/2 to Pokemon Gen1 and Gen2. That to me is comparing like for like. Is it 'fair (whatever that means), I don't know.I feel like comparing Swamp to a budget zombie FPS you buy on steam's an entirely fair comparison. Hell if somebody made a House/Typing of the Dead audiogame, I'd flat out compare it to the original. What I won't do is compare apples to oranges. I'll compare AHC to a late 80s/early 90s JRPG, Earthbound style. I'll compare audio FPSes to early 90s FPSes in the Doom engine. I'll compare Swamp to a low budget DayZ (waitif I'm on about early access DayZ...I don't need to state low budget. That writes itself).Is low budget or cheap a bad thing? No. Swamp is IMO good enough to go for $5 on Steam with free online MP for example. Warsim is on Steam and other platforms. But I wouldn't want the majority of audiogames on places like Steam, because I personally don't feel like they are at that level yet. Even with the torrent of shit Steam allows on a daily basis...@Devin: I need to dive back into that actually...and Animal Crossing, too. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502799/#p502799 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : devinprater via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? This is why I don't really play audio games anymore. Even Manamon 2 got boring, to me. Dissidia Final Fantasy is an actual fighting game, which we don't even have, just hack and slash. It's an RPG, with a great story mode and everything. Of course, I doubt I'll sway anyone to play who doesn't already enjoy it, but whatever. I do hope, actually, that audio games do disappear in the future, swallowed up into just regular games that are accessible and have great audio as well. I'm tired of the same thing all the time. Shooting, hacking and slashing, it gets boring after a few years. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502792/#p502792 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-19
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AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : assault_freak via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Haven't read much of the article, but have been following this topic. Just one thing...@35, to answer your first question, the question is answered by the fact that there are, in fact, games that are on par with budget mainstream titles from small developers developed by these individuals and small teams. People will see this coming a mile away, but Shadow Line and the BK series, as well as some of the Chinese MMO games are prime examples. So to all those saying that comparing both markets is unreasonable, I don't think so. Not when we've seen examples of what can be achieved. I think those are fair expectations. But bashing one specific game because it doesn't play like the mainstream equivalent? That's another conversation. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502746/#p502746 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Seriously? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502742/#p502742 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? A few things:1. The topic's primary link and point of focus is tagged with the words "echo chamber." There's something seriously telling about that. I repeat, I repeat, I repeat, I repeat, I listen to my repetition.2. Other posts have been tagged under drama, Rant, rage, outrage... I said above that all of this writing was badly tempered and think I've just proved my point.3. The author cannot write. "Now I have to say I have never listened to this podcast, and I’ll never listen to it again,not because of what was said, but because tech podcasts aren’t my cup of tea." You cannot say you've never listened to a podcast, then finish off that thought with, :and I'll never listen to it again. Saying you'll not listen to it again implys you've heard it at least once. Either you heard it once in which case you cannot say you never listened to it, or you never have listened to it, in which case there would be no again as again would suggest at least a second time.4. I'll say again, delivering opinions isn't the probem; delivering opinions as if they're facts is. The author is quick to include a tiny section in his writing that says something along the lines of, "This is simply my opinion and does not reflect anything anyone else on this blog might think and this might offend you." Interestingly enough, that is a statement under a heading that clearly states, and I quote, "It really is not ok!" He may also contradict himself later on by saying his opinions are not his actual feelings. I find that highly interesting, as I was under the impression that an opinion was based off of personal judgment, IE, how you feel about something and or what you believe about it? Writing things like, and I quote, "and now I’m very annoyed and quite pissed off..." I would imagine, does showcase your feelings at least a little? I might be wrong on that assertion, but I'd like to be proven wrong if that is the case.Honestly, I still fail to see why any of this stuff is being taken seriously. Anyone can make a blog; not anyone can put their thoughts together consistently and coherently. My advice to the author still remains the same, and I think Jayde took it a step further. Learn to distance yourself from your emotions when writing and start seriously considering what it is you're seriously, seriously trying to say! Seriously! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502730/#p502730 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? A few things:1. The topic's primary link and point of focus is tagged with the words "echo chamber." There's something seriously telling about that. I repeat, I repeat, I repeat, I repeat, I listen to my repetition.2. Other posts have been tagged under drama, Rant, rage, outrage... I said above that all of this writing was badly tempered and think I've just proved my point.3. The author cannot write. "Now I have to say I have never listened to this podcast, and I’ll never listen to it again,not because of what was said, but because tech podcasts aren’t my cup of tea." You cannot say you've never listened to a podcast, then finish off that thought with, :and I'll never listen to it again. Saying you'll not listen to it again implys you've heard it at least once. Either you heard it once in which case you cannot say you never listened to it, or you never have listened to it, in which case there would be no again as again would suggest at least a second time.4. I'll say again, delivering opinions isn't the probem; delivering opinions as if they're facts is. The author is quick to include a tiny section in his writing that says something along the lines of, "This is simply my opinion and does not reflect anything anyone else on this blog might think and this might offend you." INterestingly enough, that is a statement under a heading that clearly states, and I quote, "It really is not ok!" He may also contradict himself later on by saying his opinions are not his actual feelings. I find that highly interesting, as I was under the impression that an opinion was based off of personal judgment, IE, how you feel about something and or what you believe about it? Writing things like, and I quote, "and now I’m very annoyed and quite pissed off..." I would imagine, does showcase your feelings at least a little? I might be wrong on that assertion, but I'd like to be proven wrong if that is the case.Honestly, I still fail to see why any of this stuff is being taken seriously. Anyone can make a blog; not anyone can put their thoughts together consistently and coherently. My advice to the author still remains the same, and I think Jayde took it a step further. Learn to distance yourself from your emotions when writing and start seriously considering what it is you're seriously, seriously trying to say! Seriously! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502730/#p502730 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Patrick via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I am honestly not sure. I agree with most of it, though. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502706/#p502706 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? In my experience, anyone who directly uses the word "butthurt" is usually too much of a jerk to be taken seriously. If you can't make a point without talking about how "butthurt" your opponents are / were / will be, it must not have been a very good point.The same can be said for people who make a big deal out of wordchoice, I suppose. Good thing I don't even have another point atm. ... Maybe I should get one and make this post a bit longer and less antagonistic?If derivative BS with good gunxplosion sounds get attention, maybe I should whip up a side-scroller with machineguns and farm some karma. For ... ... the Karma ... festival...? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502677/#p502677 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Very true. That's why I didn't jump in to voice my criticisms for a certain game that will not be mentioned here. i really couldn't understand why people liked it, and I wanted the developer to know that it was not very good from what I thought about it. However, I didn't post my critcisms here, as I felt like I couldn't be construcjive in any way. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502621/#p502621 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? lol See, I used that word without even thinking twice.So, something I wanted to add to the stew a little bit.There are people out there who get pissed if you slam a game, even if you do it constructively. This isn't helpful.But most of the time when folks get roasted for slamming a game, it's because they were out to really tear it down. People took issue with my criticism of Manamon 2 because, while I was constructive - or tried to be - I was also relentless. It's true. I was. I am. Whether that's too far, I don't know. I did try and recognize its good points - it's far better than its prequel, for instance - but still, it's an impression I gave. I think that part of this is that the writer of the blog has the idea that he should basically be able to say what he wants, and that it's everyone else's responsibility to wade through the poorly worded mess and figure out what he's truly trying to say. Here's the problem though: written media, especially, is a minefield. When you say things, it is partially up to your audience to understand you, or to ask if they're unclear. But it's also up to you - and this means everyone, not just the dude who wrote the article - to make your communication as clear as you reasonably can. Use a weird word occasionally? Fine. Get technical from time to time? Fine. But if your criticism is 75% rant and 25% constructive feedback, it's hard to see the latter because it's slathered all over with the former. And that's partially your fault.The short version is that this is coming from a source that just sort of hurls stuff at the wall to see what sticks. I don't believe this makes him a particularly credible source, as this tendency also makes him the type to take any slamming of those purporting to speak their mind as some sort of limitation on free speech. Uh, no, that's not how this works. If you're like, "Nuh bruh this game is bad cuz u cant shoot on diagnels and there are no boms and so this game sucks cuz all u do is run n shoot so plz make it more like TK where you could atleast jump kthx"...that's not constructive, and it's not a useful bit of feedback. When I see a player hammer a game or a dev this way, I usually jump in, because even if the game is awful - and sometimes it is - being constructive is better than just attacking. And if all you want to do is have your say all the way to the end, then yes, sometimes you're gonna say stuff you shouldn't and then get called out for it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502620/#p502620 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Also, sorry about the double post, but I'd like to claricy to the *vast* majority of people what the word "obfuscate" means. From a cursory search on Google:verb. render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible. There's my good deed for the day. Have fun! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502619/#p502619 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I'm assuming that he changed his name to distinguish him from Soren, when he began posting more frequently on the forum. But honestly, while I agree to some extenar that there are "grovelling at the feet of developers" (I see this much more frequently on the AppleVis forum over this one), and while I do feel like there tends to be a lack of innovation (and some games can become boring), I can understand why we should be appreciative of what we have. We didn't have this many games 10 years ago, but I do agree with many of the points that the blog brought up. There does seem to be quite a lot of "you get what you get, and I'm perfectly content with this." That's great and all, but sometimes there are blatant flaws that could (and should) be ironed out, that are overlooked to continue the perceived "ego stroking". (could be wrong, and I'm not trying to accuse anyone of ego-stroking just for ego-stroking). However, for example, while ersonally didn't take away from it the "make games more complex" argument, I took away more of a "make them more engaging and worth the price." I do agree though that the words were a bit harsh. Even if there are things that you disagree with, don't call someone a "buffoon" just for the sake of having being a buffoon. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502617/#p502617 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? BTW, completely OT but just a curious question if I may, when did Xvordan get a name change? I don't see any record of that in the topic concerning this matter and honestly thought there were 2 Kai's running around. Confusing me isn't funny, you know. :d URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502610/#p502610 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @Jayde that takes a lot of guts to admit to, but I know where you're coming from. I also had a project I seriously wanted to get going to rival every space and futuristic game currently available, thought I had a good team assembled, but between school, home life and other things we just never could colaborate properly, and I never had money to give them which I seriously wanted to do, so while I wrote out the story, showed them a timeline I had in mind as to how the whole thing could lead up to future events that I had carefully researched, had plotlines and ideas for them to code and possible event senarios for the public launch, I think the project was honestly sunk before it ever really got a chance to get off the ground. I don't blame them; coding is a tough business regardless who's doing it and how passionate you are. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502608/#p502608 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I am in complete agreement with Nocturnis on this.There are some good points here, but the way they're worded obfuscates them, very badly. There's obviously a lot of personal bias invested in the article, which is fine on the surface of things, but it's also very clearly written by someone who couldn't be bothered to get distance.Frankly, with this poster's history of doing things like this, I'm not surprised. That said, I accept, as I did even years back, that there are some good things being pointed out here, so if I can help in some way, I'm game.It is a lot harder to plan a good game than some people realized. Do you folks remember when I was talking about building an RPG? Well, that never got off the ground. I'd love it if id did, but it requires a crapton of effort that I wasn't as prepared for as I thought I was. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502602/#p502602 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @40, I too have lost interest in most audiogames. I used to think it had to do with my being too old, and maybe it does, but I think, ironically enough, that there's a possibility the underlying issue is, something the article only somewhat hints at, that I feel audiogaming is currently catering to a select few, not to a wider audience, much like mainstream gaming is sort of stuck extending franchises or producing what it thinks will bring in the bucks. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502598/#p502598 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @38Sorry, I wasn't directing the butthurt thing at you, bad formatting on my end. The point still stands though. I just feel that people, on both sides, are being extremely dramatic about the topic. I get it both sides are passionate, but there's so much salt on both sides lol. For the record, I don't really have an opinion: audio games rarely interest me anymore. I suppose that's why I'm able to watch all of this ensue from an outside perspective. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502588/#p502588 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @33, Isn't that interesting? I mean, the article is bashing games and game devs on the basis that they know how to do exactly that. I come along and prove that the only thing this article is is just an exceptionally strong worded opinion; nothing more, nothing less. You take issue with my post because you claim I'm "butthurt." I promise you I'm not. I'm amused. The fact of the matter is that you can't have it both ways. If you're going to voice an opinion on something because you feel you have the right to voice an opinion on something, you'd better be able to take the heat when that opinion is toasted, roasted, blasted or anything in between. Besides, the idea here is that someone believes they can write whatever they want and everyone should just listen or look the other way. Funnily enough, when it comes to audiogaming, this person isn't doing that. They have the choice to look the other way, but instead they decided to write a snide commentary without any real support. I'll give you that the basis is therre, but the whole thing is challenged by the emotional bagage that's tied to it and which, I personally believe inffluenced the article.for the record, I reiterate yet again that I agree with the idea;; the community and its devs need a lift, but this controversial pile of nonsense is not going to do that.Edited to include the following: Smoke, if you're reading this, or if anyone passes this along to you, and you really are trying to help the community rather than just stirring the pot for the sake of making ripples and trying to cash in on fame and glory or some other such useless short-term fickle feeling or self gratification, if you're honestly doing your best to put forth a foot in the right direction, let me know. I'll willingly help. I don't care how or what it takes; I'll willingly colaborate with you on an article, research for you, talk to you, share my experiences with you... Whatever. No, I'm not saying I'm better than you... I don't believe that to be true. What I am saying is that going at it rogue the way you're doing it isn't the way and I think you know it. I'm not attempting to be offensive to push your buttons, make you mad, tell you to buzz off and stop writing or anything of the sort. I want you to see your writing for what it is, the way @the dwarfer did when he first began posting out here; you would do well to look at how he's changed between his posting in the ultrapower topic and now.I want to help you, to help the community at large. I want to advocate alongside you. I want the market to change for the better, not for the worse. I want to see greater releases and more titles at the same time. I want the community to have its cake and eat it too. No, I'm not looking for credit; I'm not looking for honor and glory. I'm looking to make a change, even if it's just one word at a time, as I always have, as I always will. Don't PM me if you're interested; I can't even read them anymore as the link doesn't appear for me. Reply to me on this topic or contact me by adding nightvitality on skype. If you prefer some other method of communication I'm open to that as well. I seriously believe that your opinions are worth listening to even if they are badly tempered at present, but you need to be willing to refine them and you need to be willing to listen to what the other side has to say rather than just writing them off and calling them trash. I'm putting this out there as an offer so that you realize I'm not your enemy and I don't want to be. If you accept you'll make me happy, and perhaps we can get something done. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502581/#p502581 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @33, Isn't that interesting? I mean, the article is bashing games and game devs on the basis that they know how to do exactly that. I come along and prove that the only thing this article is is just an exceptionally strong worded opinion; nothing more, nothing less. You take issue with my post because you claim I'm "butthurt." I promise you I'm not. I'm amused. The fact of the matter is that you can't have it both ways. If you're going to voice an opinion on something because you feel you have the right to voice an opinion on something, you'd better be able to take the heat when that opinion is toasted, roasted, blasted or anything in between. Besides, the idea here is that someone believes they can write whatever they want and everyone should just listen or look the other way. Funnily enough, when it comes to audiogaming, this person isn't doing that. They have the choice to look the other way, but instead they decided to write a snide commentary without any real support. I'll give you that the basis is therre, but the whole thing is challenged by the emotional bagage that's tied to it and which, I personally believe inffluenced the article.for the record, I reiterate yet again that I agree with the idea;; the community and its devs need a lift, but this controversial pile of nonsense is not going to do that.Edited to include the following: Smoke, if you're reading this, or if anyone passes this along to you, and you really are trying to help the community rather than just stirring the pot for the sake of making ripples and trying to cash in on fame and glory or some other such useless short-term fickle feeling or self gratification, if you're honestly doing your best to put forth a foot in the right direction, let me know. I'll willingly help. I don't care how or what it takes; I'll willingly colaborate with you on an article, research for you, talk to you, share my experiences with you... Whatever. No, I'm not saying I'm better than you... I don't believe that to be true. What I am saying is that going at it rogue the way you're doing it isn't the way and I think you know it. I'm not attempting to be offensive to push your buttons, make you mad, tell you to buzz off and stop writing or anything of the sort. I want you to see your writing for what it is, the way @the dwarfer did when he first began posting out here; you would o well to look at how he's changed between his posting in the ultrapower topic and now.I want to help you, to help the community at large. I want to advocate alongside you. I want the market to change for the better, not for the worse. I want to see greater releases and more titles at the same time. I want the community to have its cake and eat it too. No, i"m not looking for credit; I'm not looking for honor and glory. I'm looking to make a change, even if it's just one word at a time, as I always have, as I always will. Don't PM me if you're interested; I can't even read them anymore as the link doesn't appear for me. Write on this post or contact me by adding nightvitality on skype. If you prefer some other method of communication I'm open to that as well. I seriously believe that your opinions are worth listening even if they are badly tempered at present, but you need to be willing to refine them and you need to be willing to what the other side has to say. I'm putting this out there as an offer so that you realize I'm not your enemy and I don't want to be. If you accept you'll make me happy, and perhaps we can get something done. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502581/#p502581 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Completely agreed with 35! The blind comunity is doing the best they can to make games for people to play. The only reason certain people think these games are boring (in my oppinion) is because there are less blind people than sighted people, and we have jobs or college classes that are more important than games. That, is why it's taking me so long to make just one game. I'm trying to make it good, and I also have a job, plus college and I'm also graduating Perkins this year. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502585/#p502585 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @33, Isn't that interesting? I mean, the article is bashing games and game devs on the basis that they know how to do exactly that. I come along and prove that the only thing this article is is just an exceptionally strong worded opinion; nothing more, nothing less. You take issue with my post because you claim I'm "butthurt." I promise you I'm not. I'm amused. The fact of the matter is that you can't have it both ways. If you're going to voice an opinion on something because you feel you have the right to voice an opinion on something, you'd better be able to take the heat when that opinion is toasted, roasted, blasted or anything in between. Besides, the idea here is that someone believes they can write whatever they want and everyone should just listen or look the other way. Funnily enough, when it comes to audiogaming, this person isn't doing that. They have the choice to look the other way, but instead they decided to write a snide commentary without any real support. I'll give you that the basis is therre, but the whole thing is challenged by the emotional bagage that's tied to it and which, I personally believe inffluenced the article.for the record, I reiterate yet again that I agree with the idea;; the community and its devs need a lift, but this controversial pile of nonsense is not going to do that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502581/#p502581 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @drums61999,Read that one as well, just more of the same. stupid, dumb, lets talk some shit, I've got my sharpy and it's better than yours and I'm going to use it and I don't really care what you have to say about it. Fact? If you're going to write, you'd better care what people have to say about it, or else you're just writing to read and hear yourself. You don't get anywhere by offending even half the community. Remember what happened when Haily posted that crap about how the community was full of bla bla in her goodbye topic? Yeah, same thing. The author seems to think that because they have a blog they can post anything and there's no consequence. They just don't see it at present, and they probably won't see it for years to come, but I assure you, it's there all the same. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502574/#p502574 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Jaidon Of the Caribbean via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I mean, video game devs do the same thing though.Freefire, PUBG, Mini Militia, Call of Duty, etc. Developers want to go after a market in which their sure people will enjoy/play. They wanna make sure they enter a field in which their dev costs, surver up keep and all the other costs are justified. So, its not limited to audiogames.It seems like minorities always like to look at thee majority, and compare it to their own group or comunity, even though they don't know a shit about what's going on in the sited world.While the post has some truth, it has some false. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502567/#p502567 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : tayo . bethel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I'll weigh in with my two cents here..For those who continue to compare audiogames to mainstream ones, I have a question. Why? The audiogame market is a niche market, the developers are usualy single individuals or small teams with limited time and finances, and many of them have to log hours at jobs that will keep them fed and pay the rent. Wht all of those considerations, is it a surprise that the games being produced are not eyewateringly complex marvels? Next question, and this is for the people who like to post destructive, instead of constructive, criticism. My question is this: how does saying something like, "This game is Crap" or" ?this game is stupid" benefit anyone? Those are personal feelings, not valid facts that can be corrected. For example, I think that most sidescrollers are too simplistic for me and don't fit my style of game play. Does that mean they're not good games for someone else? No. Those people who post overwhelmingly negative reviews hit developers especially hard. Imagine a developer has just released a game. The game's idea is good, but the game itself needs work. Constructive feedback and offers to help might, just might, get us a game many of us would be happy to play. Destructive criticism, on the other hand, definitely will rob us of the potential to have a good game from that developer. Let's take A Hero's Call as an example. This game was released in what passes for a cloud of multicoloured snowflakes on this forum. Everyone was super excited to have a full featured, fully voice acted RPG. It soon became obvious that, like everything else in this world, this game couldnt satisfy everyone. One person posted a review emphasizing what he thought was bad about the game. And while the developers may or may not have taken this review to heart, this game hasn't been updated in quite some time, and the developers are silent. Now, I will freely admit that I am biased here; this game is one of my favorites and I think it has great potential; just as an example, a crafting system could be implemented using the elemental gems found in the game, and perhaps this was supposed to come in a later update. But how many games have been becalmed by a negatively and sometimes hostile reception? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502566/#p502566 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? It seems like all this blog post is doing is bashing developers that make their games for other players. If people are just putting up simple games for compliments from other people, I agree with that part of this topic and the blog. The other part of the post, though, seems like it's just saying to the developers,in my own words: "audio games should no longer exist because they're not as good as video games, boring and they're just the same game with different sounds. No change. For this reason, developers should just contact video game companies and ask them to put accessibility features in their games. Stop releasing games and working on code, just play video games." The topic about Manamon 2 being demonstrated in a program about sighted games says the same thing about audio games, they shouldn't exist. Did I miss some news about blind people and games or something? Hopefully the same thing won't happen with accessibility apps for phones and devices for the blind. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502559/#p502559 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I feel like half the people hear are pretty much proving the point of the article. Especially post 25. There's a way to make a point, which the article did a bad job of, but post 25 is guilty of the same thing. Express your opinions without getting all butthurt, both sides. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502548/#p502548 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I wholeheartedly agree with the blog post. There's definitely a trend of people just taking someone elses concept and recreating it with minor changes when it'd be much better to expand upon those ideas instead. A lot of people are saying that he's bashing simple games and I don't think that's the case. Simple isn't the same as reusing an idea which is what he really had a problem with. Also, there is truth behind the comments about everyone receiving praise for the same overused concepts. I think the reasons for someone making a game matter. If you're simply doing it for the praise, don't do it because chances are that you won't feel the need to be original because like the author said, people will play anything. If, on the other hand, you're doing it because of the praise and you actually want to make something unique, go for it. I often here the excuse that there's no concepts left to use and it's just that, an excuse. Sure, maybe you can't really do too much expanding on mechanics because yes, audio games do have more limits than mainstream ones, but the idea behind the game can make a big difference. I've seen several topics made on this forum by devs looking for ideas and the community has always had plenty but rarely are those ideas turned into something new. I hear the argument that people making free games do not owe the players anything and I agree but at the same time it's sad to see the lack of creativity and laziness when it comes to audio games. With that said, constructive criticism is for sure better than just saying this game sucks and giving no reasons, people need to know what to improve on. Perhaps the author could've worded the post better but I agree with the general sentiment. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502542/#p502542 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @kaigoku, opinions like yours are precisely what I mean by civil, constructive and well put together. They are valuable, and while I'm not a dev, I'm sure they would agree. YOu're not just going around saying, this sucks, this is bad, this is boring, this is stupid, this is buffoonery... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502540/#p502540 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @kaigoku, opinions like yours are precisely what I mean by civil, constructive and well put together. They are valuable, and while I"m not a dev, I'm sure they would agree. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502539/#p502539 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : drums61999 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I think that in conjunction with This post, the meaning of the other post becomes more clear on his stance on the issue. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502537/#p502537 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Kind of ironic. The author basically says that new games with different/good sounds but with the same concept are still crap. If his blog post were a game, it would not have an exciting new concept, and definitely no good sounds either because of the atrocious wording and delivery.Also, @26: I wouldn't worry too much about others being able to articulate better. I actually think that was really well written. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502533/#p502533 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Kind of ironic. The author basically says that new games with different/good sounds but with the same concept are still crap. If his blog post were a game, it would not have an exciting new concept, and definitely no good sounds either because of the atrocious wording and delivery. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502533/#p502533 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @JaceK, post 23. You're misinterpreting what I said. I'm not saying you shouldn't voice your opinion on a freebee... I'm saying you shouldn't expect something spectacular from it. In fact, You shouldn't expect anything. You can walk up to a lemonade stand run by a bunch of kids who are giving it away for whatever reason and dislike it, but you can't expect it to be good if it's free. You can even talk about it; tell them it needs more sugar, more lemon. Do it constructively. Do it in a civil manner.The problem I see is that there's too much of this deserving mentality where audiogaming is concerned, and I think that personally comes from blind and VI people who feel they are entitled to, well, just about anything and everything. That has nothing to do with audiogaming; that has to do with the peple whom audiogames are generally marketed to, many of whom have never dealt with the real world, with mainstream culture, with anything outside of their comfort zones and their own personal bubble.Oh, and in case you think I'm entirely venting against the author? NO, that's actually not true. IN the event everyone has forgotten... I actually believe that the author has a pointin at least the title. I just think his opinions are overwhelming his ability to factualize. He uses the word medeocracy, as if we've established some sort of social hierarchy in which only the mediocre people are going to prevail. I used the word mediocrity, which I did my best to describe with as many sources as I could site to showcase that we are stuck in a state between good and bad, and that it's not entirely our fault and how we could learn from it. So, no, I don't think he's entirely wrong, but I do think his approach is uselessly "ungood," if I may borrow his phrase. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502531/#p502531 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Xvordan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @Nocturnus I want to make it clear that while I agree with the blogger's sentiment about the quality of games and our voicing an opinion about them, I definitely do not agree with his delivery, tone, or attitude. This is why I didn't even bother commenting on the article. It was just a practice in how to insult people, thrown in with a grammar level that's at mediocracy at best (LOL, mediocracy).Kai URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502530/#p502530 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Right, reading the article:"Add in the social rewards a developer receives for releasing a horrible game, and you get the recipe for failure. This results in very similar games being released one after another. Sometimes this is by the same developer, other times it is a new developer working within the same boring mental bounds of other games they have played."Translation: You should not work for any praise, and you should not work to try and recreate any game you've liked in the past. If you're reading this, Dentin, just remember AA is a piece of garbage because you modeled it after something you liked.Shall we keep going?"Either way it is ungood, and this will only lead to a complete stagnation of blind gaming, even more so than we already have."I'm not even sure how to translate this, as "ungood" is just as bad as Donald Trump's "Bigly." The best that can be said for it is that it at least shows up in the urban dictionary. Beyond that though, I wish the author would at least understand that expressing an opinion as a fact really doesn't make their case for them, and that's how that whole statement comes across, using ideas like "this will lead, " an absolute definitely will happen as I say because I said it, "even more so," meaning things are bad because I said it and will only get worse, "than we already have." Nuff said on this bit."The root of the problem comes from the developers. Everyone wants to make a game, but a small fraction of that group wants to do the needed work before they write the first line of code. A quick way around this work is to base your game on other similar games already released, maybe games people enjoyed playing. This is the most popular approach taken by many audio game developers. By doing this all you need to do is code and make the game work, no prior thinking, balancing, conceptualizing, or brainstorming is needed. The blueprint is already there, it is based on something which has already proven successful, just change a few things and you have your own branded audio game. This seems to stem partially from laziness, and partially from not being able to think outside of the box. Both of these are ungood, and both have the same effect."Translation: Nothing different, more repetition of all of the above, as if hammering the point over and over again is going to make it more true than it already is, and more ungood to everyone else."The second most common approach is to skip everything up to coding. You don’t plan, you don’t pre-balance, you don’t conceptualize, and you do the bare minimum forethought. This doesn’t seem to slow anyone down though, they can make a poorly thought out game and release it in a blaze of glory. Smack that baby on the forums and glory in the predictable response, the unashamed groveling at the feet of the developer. This circumstance is more to blame on the players, but still both parties hold part of the responsibility."Translation: you're all a bunch of simpletons when you sit around and actually like a simple game. You should all like complex games, not simple games. Hey, JCenter, what the blazes were you thinking when you made that farm game? It's so simple! Why'd you practically make a nano-empires clone! Aprone? Castaways and lunimals, so similar! You should have like, seriously thought about that! And those of you who enjoyed it? Shame on you!"From this root then grows the giant tree of buffoonery which is the audio gaming community."I don't even think I need to take this apart, simplify it and try to put it together for you. It speaks for itself. We're all a bunch of buffoons. I think I've heard this before on at least 20 different topics out here, but I'm sure coming from this guy it's absolutely original.I'm not even going to quote the rest of that parragraph because it just uses the word "buffoonery" over and over again with vulgarity thrown in as if it means something special, a total of 4 times."When one of these half-ass games get released the same sad story plays out the same has it has in the past. The developer posts it up on the audio games forum. A bunch of people talk about how great it is, and a few people point out it is the same game with a different wrapper. Those with negative things to say are told to shut up, and normally they do, probably because idiots in large numbers should be feared. This leaves all the buffoons to their own devices, and they then hold hands and sing campfire songs about how great their new game is. The sad thing is they are too short sighted to realize the negative long term impact they are having on the audio gaming community, and no one ever takes the time to explain it to the them.Dissenting opinions against a game are almost always met with hostility from the other players. This is some form of petty tr
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Right, reading the article:"Add in the social rewards a developer receives for releasing a horrible game, and you get the recipe for failure. This results in very similar games being released one after another. Sometimes this is by the same developer, other times it is a new developer working within the same boring mental bounds of other games they have played."Translation: You should not work for any praise, and you should not work to try and recreate any game you've liked in the past. If you're reading this, Dentin, just remember AA is a piece of garbage because you modeled it after something you liked.Shall we keep going?"Either way it is ungood, and this will only lead to a complete stagnation of blind gaming, even more so than we already have."I'm not even sure how to translate this, as "ungood" is just as bad as Donald Trump's "Bigly." The best that can be said for it is that it at least shows up in the urban dictionary. Beyond that though, I wish the author would at least understand that expressing an opinion as a fact really doesn't make their case for them, and that's how that whole statement comes across, using ideas like "this will lead, " an absolute definitely will happen as I say because I said it, "even more so," meaning things are bad because I said it and will only get worse, "than we already have." Nuff said on this bit."The root of the problem comes from the developers. Everyone wants to make a game, but a small fraction of that group wants to do the needed work before they write the first line of code. A quick way around this work is to base your game on other similar games already released, maybe games people enjoyed playing. This is the most popular approach taken by many audio game developers. By doing this all you need to do is code and make the game work, no prior thinking, balancing, conceptualizing, or brainstorming is needed. The blueprint is already there, it is based on something which has already proven successful, just change a few things and you have your own branded audio game. This seems to stem partially from laziness, and partially from not being able to think outside of the box. Both of these are ungood, and both have the same effect."Translation: Nothing different, more repetition of all of the above, as if hammering the point over and over again is going to make it more true than it already is, and more ungood to everyone else."The second most common approach is to skip everything up to coding. You don’t plan, you don’t pre-balance, you don’t conceptualize, and you do the bare minimum forethought. This doesn’t seem to slow anyone down though, they can make a poorly thought out game and release it in a blaze of glory. Smack that baby on the forums and glory in the predictable response, the unashamed groveling at the feet of the developer. This circumstance is more to blame on the players, but still both parties hold part of the responsibility."Translation: you're all a bunch of simpletons when you sit around and actually like a simple game. You should all like complex games, not simple games. Hey, JCenter, what the blazes were you thinking when you made that farm game? It's so simple! Why'd you practically make a nano-empires clone! Aprone? Castaways and lunimals, so similar! You should have like, seriously thought about that! And those of you who enjoyed it? Shame on you!"From this root then grows the giant tree of buffoonery which is the audio gaming community."I don't even think I need to take this apart, simplify it and try to put it together for you. It speaks for itself. We're all a bunch of buffoons. I think I've heard this before on at least 20 different topics out here, but I'm sure coming from this guy it's absolutely original.I'm not even going to quote the rest of that parragraph because it just uses the word "buffoonery" over and over again with vulgarity thrown in as if it means something special, a total of 4 times."When one of these half-ass games get released the same sad story plays out the same has it has in the past. The developer posts it up on the audio games forum. A bunch of people talk about how great it is, and a few people point out it is the same game with a different wrapper. Those with negative things to say are told to shut up, and normally they do, probably because idiots in large numbers should be feared. This leaves all the buffoons to their own devices, and they then hold hands and sing campfire songs about how great their new game is. The sad thing is they are too short sighted to realize the negative long term impact they are having on the audio gaming community, and no one ever takes the time to explain it to the them.Dissenting opinions against a game are almost always met with hostility from the other players. This is some form of petty tr
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : kaigoku via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I never really comment on these kinds of posts because it does seem to turn into a two-sided debate. And others do a better job of articulating their thoughts. My belief, however, is that many people try to hold AudioGames to almost the same, if not the same, standards as mainstream video games. I don't think this is a particularly helpful mindset. I'm trying not to suggest that audio games should never potentially reach similar expectations as mainstream games. I am just saying that audio games are not there yet and may not reach that point in the near future unless aided by gamers, end users, and old and new developers alike. Also, people with good game ideas may do well in collaborating with developers in this community to have their ideas implemented. Because some people might be good at programming, but don't do so well at coming up with game ideas. I consider myself to be a decent and experienced software engineer, but I can't come up with a good game idea to save my life! lolAdditionally, my understanding of the developer landscape in this community is that we have developers who are well-versed in different areas of software development. As I have observed, some dabble in low level coding, others in web development coding, and others steer away from audio game development to pursue a career. I'm not saying developers can't learn from other disciplines. It's just that developers sometimes don't care to focus on the tangible product we call a complete Audio Game! Some of us just like to play with different development libraries to test their potential. Oh, and other devs are just jumping in, trying to understand the audio game development ecosystem, which is quite an endeavor. Personally, I think a well-written article, or series of articles, completely outlining and coherently describing audio game development and its best practices would due the community well, especially for new and enthusiastic newcomers!Anyway, I also don't want to imply that developers should be highly praised just for producing any kind of game. In fact, I would even establish that if a developer releases a game and deploys it for the community to experience, they should expect criticism and even unfortunate harassment from other community members. This isn't ideal, but end users will be users, and if a developer is not willing to face this fact, then maybe they should consider staying away. I know that sounds harsh, and I don't mean it to be, but that has become the reality of our situation here. And perhaps this lack of audio games is a consequence, in whole or in part, of our seemingly collaborative effort to discourage game creators through light or strong harassment. Notice I wrote "seemingly."This is my outlook on the situation. Take it or leave it. Arguably, at the end of the day, if a game is to be realized, it is up to the developer, as an individual or in a group. At least, for now. I can't wait for no-code game-making solutions to be created. And although I am always up for people being able to express their valid concerns and opinions, I am more inclined to side with, "If you don't like the current state of games, maybe consider seeking out out a developer or learning how to code a complex game" mindset. Don't get me wrong, I am glad people are letting their opinions known. And it is good to have these criticisms and observations about the community. But if someone wants change, who better else to jump start the effort than those who are suggesting said change!Finally, money is a great motivator! lol URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502526/#p502526 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Right, reading the article:"Add in the social rewards a developer receives for releasing a horrible game, and you get the recipe for failure. This results in very similar games being released one after another. Sometimes this is by the same developer, other times it is a new developer working within the same boring mental bounds of other games they have played."Translation: You should not work for any praise, and you should not work to try and recreate any game you've liked in the past. If you're reading this, Dentin, just remember AA is a piece of garbage because you modeled it after something you liked.Shall we keep going?"Either way it is ungood, and this will only lead to a complete stagnation of blind gaming, even more so than we already have."I'm not even sure how to translate this, as "ungood" is just as bad as Donald Trump's "Bigly." The best that can be said for it is that it at least shows up in the urban dictionary. Beyond that though, I wish the author would at least understand that expressing an opinion as a fact really doesn't make their case for them, and that's how that whole statement comes across, using ideas like "this will ldead, " an absolute definitely will happen as I say because I said it, "even more so," meaning things are bad because I said it and will only get worse, "than we already have." Nuff said on this bit."The root of the problem comes from the developers. Everyone wants to make a game, but a small fraction of that group wants to do the needed work before they write the first line of code. A quick way around this work is to base your game on other similar games already released, maybe games people enjoyed playing. This is the most popular approach taken by many audio game developers. By doing this all you need to do is code and make the game work, no prior thinking, balancing, conceptualizing, or brainstorming is needed. The blueprint is already there, it is based on something which has already proven successful, just change a few things and you have your own branded audio game. This seems to stem partially from laziness, and partially from not being able to think outside of the box. Both of these are ungood, and both have the same effect."Translation: Nothing different, more repetition of all of the above, as if hammering the point over and over again is going to make it more true than it already is, and more ungood to everyone else."The second most common approach is to skip everything up to coding. You don’t plan, you don’t pre-balance, you don’t conceptualize, and you do the bare minimum forethought. This doesn’t seem to slow anyone down though, they can make a poorly thought out game and release it in a blaze of glory. Smack that baby on the forums and glory in the predictable response, the unashamed groveling at the feet of the developer. This circumstance is more to blame on the players, but still both parties hold part of the responsibility."Translation: you're all a bunch of simpletons when you sit around and actually like a simple game. You should all like complex games, not simple games. Hey, JCenter, what the blazes were you thinking when you made that farm game? It's so simple! Why'd you practically make a nano-empires clone! Aprone? Castaways and lunimals, so similar! You should have like, seriously thought about that! And those of you who enjoyed it? Shame on you!"From this root then grows the giant tree of buffoonery which is the audio gaming community."I don't even think I need to take this apart, simplify it and try to put it together for you. It speaks for itself. We're all a bunch of buffoons. I think I've heard this before on at least 20 different topics out here, but I'm sure coming from this guy it's absolutely original.I'm not even going to quote the rest of that parragraph because it just uses the word "buffoonery" over and over again with vulgarity thrown in as if it means something special, a total of 4 times."When one of these half-ass games get released the same sad story plays out the same has it has in the past. The developer posts it up on the audio games forum. A bunch of people talk about how great it is, and a few people point out it is the same game with a different wrapper. Those with negative things to say are told to shut up, and normally they do, probably because idiots in large numbers should be feared. This leaves all the buffoons to their own devices, and they then hold hands and sing campfire songs about how great their new game is. The sad thing is they are too short sighted to realize the negative long term impact they are having on the audio gaming community, and no one ever takes the time to explain it to the them.Dissenting opinions against a game are almost always met with hostility from the other players. This is some form of petty tr
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I certainly don't think every critical player needs to know how to code. However, they could definitely help out with creating concepts, ideas, plans, etc.I think part of the problem is that there are very, very few releases which go unnoticed here. Whereas on mainstream sites, there are so many options that if you were to be a small team and create something sub par or something that's too similar to an already existing concept, noone would care. You're extremely lucky if your title made it to a big site at all. If development teams squabble amongst themselves, or even developers and players, everyone else will simply lose interest and move on. There might be some exceptions with really big and well-established titles, but it doesn't compare to how it is here.And then there are the bizarre hypes in the mainstream world, like the time there was a news article about somebody being kicked out of a cafe for playing a scrabble game there on his phone. The name of said game was mentioned in the news article, and suddenly, said game got hyped to hell and back. New concept? As far as I know, absolutely not.If only we could gather some data, so we'd actually have comparisons. But that won't work well, since you could argue endlessly about what is and what isn't the same concept. In the end, it would probably be too subjective.On another note, it's still ironic that almost everyone seems to be very eager to jump on the bandwagon whenever the slightest hint of drama presents itself. Personally, I think there are many people here who really could use a good long look in the mirror. This is a general comment though, definitely not either for or against the BSG blog post. And it'll most likely fall on deaf ears as well, since it's been said so many times before.In fact, there really isn't very much else to say about this, as it's nothing new. I'm still not entirely sure why this blog post was made, because it's basically just beating a dead horse at this point. The best thing to do in this case is to try and be the positive exception, and encourage others to do likewise. Sadly, that's not what appears to be happening either in this blog post. Personally, I wouldn't be jumping with joy at the prospect of people being heavily influenced by a group with such a generally arrogant demeanor. Sure, you can write anything you want on your own blog, and everybody should by all means continue to do so if they feel so inclined. But I sure as hell don't hope anyone expects to get anything done with blog posts like these, because that seems very counterintuitive to me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502516/#p502516 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I agree with @20:Should only people in the auto industry be able to offer feedback on how a car looks or drives? Should only people who cook be able to critique food served in a restaurant? No. And it's the same here. No matter if it's free or paid, people can say what they want about a product, good or bad. We already have had certain devs running around with the 'if you cannot code stfu about my game' attitude, or the 'you got no idea what it is like to code' argument.EDIT:Okay to address the 'free vs paid' point.If somebody gives you a free thing and you don't like itt, but not allowed to say it that sounds dangerously like censorship to me. Let's say Bob releases a game that's free, but crashes on certain hardware. under Nocturnus's example, none of that feedback would be given, correct? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502513/#p502513 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I agree with @20:Should only people in the auto industry be able to offer feedback on how a car looks or drives? Should only people who cook be able to critique food served in a restaurant? No. And it's the same here. No matter if it's free or paid, people can say what they want about a product, good or bad. We already have had certain devs running around with the 'if you cannot code stfu about my game' attitude, or the 'you got no idea what it is like to code' argument. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502513/#p502513 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Since when have we had a right to expect anything from a freebee? I understand paid products being subjective to any kind of critique because you're paying for them; that's seriously one thing, and perhaps there's something to be said for AHC being well over the price we should have paid for an open world that didn't have much to offer... I"ll leave that for another time if it needs discussing. But many people have offered products for free out here and most of those I feel are the ones under attack. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502510/#p502510 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Whilst i completely agree with Kai about the sharing of opinions and regularly share mine, the problem is I see far more of the other sort. Rather than people greeting the same old same old with unbridled praise, we seem to have the opposite situation, where the majority of games are met with an excess of hostility and negativity. This is why when I myself give feedback on games, just as when I write my book reviews, I always try to be as balanced as possible, and vary what I thought needed improving or what I did not like, with anything good I thought about the game, even if it was just "well that background sound made me laugh!" . URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502509/#p502509 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Xvordan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Nocturnus wrote:Without having to read the article I'll make the following observation; if the author is smart enough to complain and put an article that merits reading, why not take that time and devote it to either creating or learning to create a game he, and the community would actually like?I see where you're coming from, but I think this might set a dangerous precedent going forward. It would imply that only people who have the wherewith all and skill to learn how to code and produce a game could then criticize the works of fellow developers, and that consumers shouldn't have any right to voice an opinion unless they themselves were willing to learn how to code and produce a competing product.As the consumers who partake of and pay for games, I believe people should voice their opinions on a game, even if they're negative opinions. An author needs to have the backbone to take negative criticism, especially when that negative criticism is well written and thought out. This doesn't mean I support mindlessly bashing a developer, but releasing a game is very much like releasing a book, movie, song, or anything else: You will have those who favor it, and you will have those who just don't. Neither side is necessarily wrong (unless one side is deliberately being nasty), and both sides should be able to voice their views -- after all, how else will an author know what he's doing wrong if we all just meekly roll over and say "thank you God for your gift of a new game"?Kai URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502503/#p502503 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Oy! I like Perfect Dark... What can I say! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502499/#p502499 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I also think part of the problem is people hype games up too much and assumptions.So if I make an FPS, I'll have to fight assumptions. let's say I make this hypothetical FPS in BGT because example. I'll have people comparing it to Redspot, TK, et cetera. Even if my game has new mechanics and is different, there will be those users who inevitably compare it to those games. Though it doesn't help when developers make extremly, extremely similar games. It also doesn't help when there's some users living in the past, and wanting old games back, comparing any release to their favorite games URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502497/#p502497 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Without having to read the article I'll make the following observation; if the author is smart enough to complain and put an article that merrits reading, why not take that time and devote it to either creating or learning to create a game he, and the community would actually like? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502494/#p502494 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @Conor, I'm certainly in favour of people developing more complex audiogames, and your dead right there are plenty of examples of great audiogames done with available resources. My point in post 11 was just that whenever I see the "too simple" argument, it always seems to imply "too simple as opposed to mainstream games." rather than examining audiogame releases on their own merits, or comparing them to what has gone before.I also am a firm believer in people developing their skills with practice games, indeed several developers from Vgstorm to Blastbay have had great history from very simple beginnings, and I'd personally still love to see someone get a true arcade game done correctly with good mechanics. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502481/#p502481 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Naruto via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? well, I agree with the blog in some respects. would I like to see some audio games to be more like mainstream games? of course! I think it's perfectly possible, and doable. but then again, I've grown up around sighted people most of my life. I can certainly see room for improvement, but then again, if I think a game is good enough to buy, i'll buy it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502480/#p502480 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I fully agree with this article. and this is coming from a long-time developer.A lot of people are regurgitating the same thing over and over again and are doing this because it's easy and brings them attention. Complexity does not have to be the mark of a good game, but showing a new concept that either hasn't been done before, or taking an existing concept and making it better are great things to do. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502478/#p502478 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : connor142 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @11, I'd just like to state that there is a difference between 70s text games and today. Back then, such textual games were all that was reasonably possible. You couldn't go much further than a text based game unless you got an atari or arcade. We have so, so, so many more options today. It is possible nowadays to create much more interesting games than it was only 10-15 years ago, even alone. Swamp, the japanese games, they are all examples of small teams, or even just individuals, creating awesome stuff. Reading your post I immediately had to ask myself: "is #11 implying that games should stay simple because we don't have enough resources/time/money/devs/cups of black coffee compared to large mainstream studios?" This is simply not true. Also, there is probably a correlation between the game' complexity and genre and the number of clones or similar games released shortly after that reinforce the post's points. I've seen enough code forks or remakes of fps games, side scrolling shooters and survival games like oh shit to fill a book at this point. But literally no one has attempted to do something like a monstermon, europlain, or marsh 1.0, the new zombie shooter by Randomstudios. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502464/#p502464 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : SpiderMan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I'll be honest here.I lost interest after the second heading. Because all it turned into was a "let's hate on the audiogames community" fest. I'm sure it changed it's tone later on, but here's the issue: Ya gotta start somewhere. And no, dear poster, not every dissenting claim is met with harsh hostility. It's only the people who are like, "Come up with original ideas, you piece of donkey ass," that are met with the hostility. The people who say, "Hey. I enjoy your game, but I've seen it done before so many times, it's simply not for me," that are met with either nothing at all or someone agreeing with them. Because, generally, civility begets civility.To sum it up: They have valid concerns. I think we have too many FPS games and not enough RPG's. (I'm biased there though.) But I'm not going to read a post that says audiogames are the issue when a whole section is dedicated to why the community sucks. That just speaks of someone who's disgruntled and wants to vent in some guise or another.(Also, ungood?)Thanks, and excelsior. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502437/#p502437 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Jase Kay, the problem is, any assumption that audiogames are too simple is entirely based on a comparison with mainstream games. Nobody back in the seventies said: "all these text games and games with black and white graphics are terrible! because they are too simple."Neither do I think that the community has been exactly "rewarding" to simplistic games either, not when you look at how negative the only formal review of A hero's call we have is, actually if you'll permit me a little bit of beerd stroking "get off my lorn you damn kids!" style old grumpitude, I think matters now have if anything been getting rather more negative and more destructively negative, rather than less. That goes for the internet as a whole of course, not just this forum. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502433/#p502433 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Xvordan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I don't understand why you want to fragment the comments that they might otherwise be getting on their blog? For every post that's made here and not made there, that's one commentor lost, which might be important to the folks at BSG. I get linking to the blog and making people aware of it, but you should also encourage people to comment directly on their blog instead of robbing them of comment traffic.Kai URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502432/#p502432 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? @dark: That's not what I took away from the post.I took away this:Audiogames are bad because the community is in a vicious cycle of rewarding games that are quickly made, and thrown out the door.Shovelware if you will. It's like LJN's stuff on the NES. It was awful. It was quick to make, poorly programmed and thrown out the door. I didn't take anything away about mainstream games, because no, stop (as an assumption everyone) worshipping mainstream games. There's been some godawful ones there too. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502428/#p502428 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? me agree with 5 to, it was the case in 2013 and its now, ad it will in the feuture URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502425/#p502425 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? *Sigh-o-ken*The post complains about newbies. There are only like two or three devs with appreciable experience who are still active.I can't imagine why. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502422/#p502422 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I'm afraid this just seems to be the same argument again and again. "mainstream games are good, audiogames are bad, audiogames need to be like mainstream games to be better, why does everyone like these bad audiogames when we should ask developers to create good mainstream games, in audio, because all audiogames are the same, which is bad!" Back in 2006 when I joined this community, one new release a month was seen as a good thing. Galaxy ranger was the closest thing to a strategy game, and the last crusade was literally it for completely audio rpgs. Looking at what is available now, the growth has been exponential, and yet I still hear the same old arguments "why are audiogames so simple, why are audiogames so bad, why does everyone like these bad games." Of course, some games are better than others, but personally, when I've seen matters change and develop, it's been because a developer took on board constructive criticism and moved on. Paladin of the sky had really bad combat, well here comes Manamon. Audio.it's games are too expensive, well look,, all the prices are down. We need true side scrollers with a properly 2d dimension, oh look, here is the Bk series and tomb hunter. I'm board of all these textual games Why can't we have a real time audio space trading game? Oh wait, here is new horizons!Are there some games that are better than others? Of course, but myself I've found I personally get more fun out of concentrating on what a game does right! not what it does wrong. A blind legend is either a short, simplistic adventure game with no replay value and a cliched story, or it is a cinematic experience with good quality acting, a great soundscape and an easy going style which is perfect for a quick break. I'll be the first to point out what I think are design flaws or elements in a game which can be improved (look at my posts in the blind quest topic), but it equally follows that I'll be the first to praise something I think works as well, and usually most games will have a combination of both. it's easy to bash and bash and bash, just as it's easy, as indeed the blog post said, to sit back and just repeatedly claim how nice something is, albeit I suspect myself the former attitude is far more common than the latter. I do completely agree with the blog that saying what is wrong with a game is a valuable thing, however constructive cryticism is worthless if it's couched in completely destructive terms, and sadly we've seen a lot of destructively critical attitudes in the community lately (gold gun anybody?). I suspect myself, if tomorrow Nintendo announced that they were putting $1 into developing the biggest, baddest, most complex and awesome audiogame ever seen, carefully written and crafted over a solid year by a team of thousands of developers, with professional voice acting, a richly composed score and enough gameplay to keep everyone busy for hundreds and hundreds of hours, someone would still! be calling it "simplistic."So my personal advice would be to everyone when presented with a new game would be to enjoy what you can enjoy, suggest improvements to anything you think needs improving, and above all have fun! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502413/#p502413 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : queenslight via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I couldn't agree more with Dark here, every single word. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502416/#p502416 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I'm afraid this just seems to be the same argument again and again. "mainstream games are good, audiogames are bad, audiogames need to be like mainstream games to be better, why does everyone like these bad audiogames when we should ask developers to create good mainstream games, in audio, because all audiogames are the same, which is bad!" Back in 2006 when I joined this community, one new release a month was seen as a good thing. Galaxy ranger was the closest thing to a strategy, and the last crusade was literally it for audio rpgs. Looking at what is available now, the growth has been exponential, and yet I still hear the same old arguments "why are audiogames so simple, why are audiogames so bad, why does everyone like these bad games." Of course, some games are better than others, but personally, when I've seen matters change and develop, it's been because a developer took on board constructive criticism and moved on. Paladin of the sky had really bad combat, well here comes Manamon. Audio.it's games are too expensive, well look,, all the prices are down. We need true side scrollers with a properly 2d dimension, oh look, here is the Bk series and tomb hunter. I'm board of all these textual games Why can't we have a real time audio space trading game? Oh wait, here is new horizons!Are there some games that are better than others? Of course, but myself I've found I personally get more fun out of concentrating on what a game does right! not what it does wrong. A blind legend is either a short, simplistic adventure game with no replay value and a cliched story, or it is a cinematic experience with good quality acting, a great soundscape and an easy going style which is perfect for a quick break. I'll be the first to point out what I think are design flaws or elements in a game which can be improved (look at my posts in the blind quest topic), but it equally follows that I'll be the first to praise something I think works as well, and usually most games will have a combination of both. it's easy to bash and bash and bash, just as it's easy, as indeed the blog post said, to sit back and just claim how nice something is, albeit I suspect myself the former attitude is far more common than the latter. I do completely agree with the blog that saying what is wrong with a game is a valuable thing, however constructive cryticism is worthless if it's couched in completely destructive terms, and sadly we've seen a lot of destructively critical attitudes in the community lately (gold gun anybody?). I suspect myself, if tomorrow Nintendo announced that they were putting $1 dollars into developing the biggest, baddest, most complex and awesome audiogame ever seen, carefully written and crafted over a solid year by a team of thousands of developers, with professional voice acting, a richly composed score and enough gameplay to keep everyone busy for hundreds and hundreds of hours, someone would still! be calling it "simplistic."So my personal advice would be to everyone when presented with a new game would be to enjoy what you can enjoy, suggest improvements to anything you think needs improving, above all have fun! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502413/#p502413 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? Hi.I also agree on everything that was posted. Yes, this will probably drive some devs and their yesmen up and down the wals of their echo chamber or they won't even give a damb, but I do have the slight hope that something will change.greetings Moritz. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502408/#p502408 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : jimmy69 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I agree as Well URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502403/#p502403 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
2020-02-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : moaddye via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? I agreew ith it URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502395/#p502395 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post?
what are your thoughts on BSG's new blog post? hello! for those who doesn't follow bsg, there is a new blog post by BSG blog on there web site , it is regarding the opinions of the author about the games which are being released. in my opinion, his thoughts striked me and they are somewhere true.I want to know your opinions.check out the blog:https://blog.blackscreengaming.com/smok … 2/17/2020/thanks URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/502384/#p502384 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
