Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
Skunk;176376 Wrote: I'm afraid it's leeched into the general marketplace as well.. http://www.mother-of-tone.com/attraction.htm It's very highly reviewed though (tpfic) Well, a metal case conducts electricity and modifies electrical and electromagnetical fields. I wouldn't rule out that a wood enclousure can make a difference to a component's behaviour. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
opaqueice;176390 Wrote: But you see, there is a perfectly good hypothesis, backed by centuries of scientific theory and experiment, that explains the result you reported above. It's got nothing to do with audio or physics and everything to do with psychology, but that doesn't detract at all from its explanatory power. Suppose someone told you your music would sound better if you wired $100 to his bank account. Would you feel compelled to try it before passing judgement? There are always a large number of possible explanations for any observation. The way we make progress is by investigating the most plausible, meaning the simplest and most consistent with our knowledge. If we tried to investigate every possible explanation, including those ruled out by past experiments, we'd never get anywhere. You haven't presented any credible evidence that there's an effect here. Please don't be offended, but the fact that you think you heard something isn't very meaningful (because it can be explained by psychology in a way that's extremely well-documented and established as a fact). If on the other hand you presented some hard evidence, like a double-blind test result or a measurement, the psychological explanation would no longer be adequate and the claim would be taken more seriously. Until then, quite frankly it would be a waste of time for anyone to investigate. The way we make progress is by investigating the most plausible Well, Dynamite was invented by mistake. I'm sure there are thousands of accidental discoveries. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
GaryB;176371 Wrote: You mean something like this? ---Gary Yes I may experiment with other bits and bobs before spending £20, cheers for the pic. -- Deaf Cat Deaf Cat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=515 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Irritating whistle on right channel from SB3
I do not know whether this is of any use but I had both a hum (probably 50Hz or derivative) on both channels and a high level whistle on the right channel - these were constant level. I was using the SB3 directly from its analogue outputs into my electronic x-overs / amplifiers into my Linkwitz Orions. The solution (for me) was to change from the walwart to a Power One linear psu - since then no noises - even when listening through my Stax Lambda-Pro/SRM-1 setup. I know the issue of psu's has been contentious and I can only add that this worked for me in removing the noise in my system - no comments on better/worse sound. -- AlanE AlanE's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9251 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32155 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
P Floding;176335 Wrote: I'm now going back and forth between two ways the SB3 is placed, and I'd say there is a pretty marked difference in sound. (Using digital out) I need to confirm when I can play at normal levels though. Possible reasons? Who knows.. I will not rule out placebo any time soon, that's for sure. Come Onnn.. Let us know what your putting it on please! :) -- Deaf Cat Deaf Cat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=515 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
Deaf Cat;176437 Wrote: Come Onnn.. Let us know what your putting it on please! :) I actually don't know the name of these things. Look similar to the cones in the photo posted above, but with a blunter point (and cast rather than lathed). I just scared the heck out of myself listening to a very old recording of The Planets. Seems dynamics have changed. Something very weird is going on. My best bet is that it has little to do with resonance, and instead something to do with the CD player's chassis that the SB3 usually sits on. But I could be wrong. (I most likely am wrong.) Perhaps I have broken/weakened some detrimental loop consisting of the TacT, the power amp, ground connectors and the CD player's chassis coupling into the SB3. The sound actually is nohing like what I'm used to.. So much going on in this classical recording.. Here is a photo of the thing. Sorry about the bad light. The box on the left is the battery switcher and regulator. (Just did it again -startled myself listening to classical music. I must have gotten used to some dynamic compression or smearing before.) +---+ |Filename: IMG_5202 small.JPG | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2341| +---+ -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
The cones look like RDCs - see https://www.audiophilecandy.com/prodet.asp?pcode=I-CLE-RDC30=More+Info -- AlanE AlanE's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9251 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
AlanE;176442 Wrote: The cones look like RDCs - see https://www.audiophilecandy.com/prodet.asp?pcode=I-CLE-RDC30=More+Info That's probably them, although I got mine cheaper from my local dealer. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
GaryB;176375 Wrote: he willingness to draw conclusions without any experimental work is amazingly unscientific. ---Gary True. In the same sense that Placebo Effert is a very real scientific principle. -- FatElvis2000 FatElvis2000's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6725 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best reasonably priced DAC
I am looking for a nice DAC that is reasonably priced. I am interested in finished products and possibly kits (if they are fairly straigtforward and easy). Any ideas? Thanks! Milton -- milton10 milton10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9165 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32336 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
how about half-cut squash balls? in place of those cone things? They work decently for speakers. ... and perhaps someone could investigate whether 'yellow-dot' balls improve the soundstage over 'blue-dot' or 'red-dot' balls :) -- Nikhil Nikhil's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=993 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
P Floding;176426 Wrote: Well, a metal case conducts electricity and modifies electrical and electromagnetical fields. I wouldn't rule out that a wood enclousure can make a difference to a component's behaviour. But also acts as an heat insulator not great for a warm/hot amp. -- FatElvis2000 FatElvis2000's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6725 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
GaryB;176399 Wrote: I think the difficulty I have with the whole double blind line of argument is the assumption that on one's own there will be tendency to hear differences because one has spent money on a tweak and one expects to hear a difference. Gary, it's not like that - there's no such assumption. We don't understand these psychological effects well enough to be able to say why they occur or what you will think you hear. What we do know is that they do occur, and very often - when people are asked which of two identical things are better, they almost never say these are identical, and almost always say this one is better. Not only that they have very specific (and wrong, since in these controlled experiments the two are identical) reasons for why one is better. This is an established fact, but for some reason many people are very resistant to it. This particular tweak, and many others, is very hard to explain through physics. To accommodate it we would need either a very complicated and unlikely mechanism using known physics, or we would have to invoke something new and unknown. So we have two explanations for the same fact - one which we know is there, which has been confirmed again and again, and one which is very complicated and baroque or goes against centuries of accumulated knowledge. There's not much of a choice there, and so it isn't something interesting to investigage, because it's very easily explained with something boring and conventional. Let me give one example (I'm purposely making it extreme to illustrate the point). Imagine you're a scientist, and someone came to you and said, when I flip this switch on the wall of my living room, the lights go on. Then when I flip it back they go back off. I think it's because there are some aliens watching that switch, and when it's up they immediately fly down from their saucer and make the lights light up. Now obviously there's a simple, plausible explanation which doesn't involve aliens - but the alien one isn't impossible! So at that point do you go to the effort of investigating? To stretch the analogy a little further, suppose the person came back and said, look, my house doesn't have any electricity, so it can't have to do with that, but the light still goes on! That's the equivalent of a double-blind test result - it eliminates the obvious explanation, leaving room for something more interesting. Sorry for such a long post, but do you see my point? -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anyone heard the SB+?
musicheadhunter;175993 Wrote: This is my first exposure to the squeezebox, but Patrick let me demo the sqeezebox +, then he put on a normal squeezebox, and the difference is incredible. Absolutely great kit and well made. My only problem is that I would love to add another black box with those green letters but will have to figure out an alternative to the cdx2, maybe a hicap. Interesting reading, thanks. One question though regarding your comparison...I presume both the SB3 and the SB+ were using their own internal DACs? I already have a half decent DAC (CIAudio) in the market for a 2nd SB3, but now wondering if a SB+ would be a better solution than SB3 with external DAC. Well, a ~£600 better solution that is. Any thoughts? cheers. -- pedalhead pedalhead's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2022 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32118 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Irritating whistle on right channel from SB3
AlanE;176436 Wrote: I do not know whether this is of any use but I had both a hum (probably 50Hz or derivative) on both channels and a high level whistle on the right channel - these were constant level. I was using the SB3 directly from its analogue outputs into my electronic x-overs / amplifiers into my Linkwitz Orions. The solution (for me) was to change from the walwart to a Power One linear psu - since then no noises - even when listening through my Stax Lambda-Pro/SRM-1 setup. I know the issue of psu's has been contentious and I can only add that this worked for me in removing the noise in my system - no comments on better/worse sound. At least as far as I'm concerned it's not contentious that the linear might be less noisy, or might have less EMI (which can cause problems like a hum). What's more contentious is whether it can make a difference if it *doesn't* affect the noise floor (as seems to be the case with mine). How do you like the Orions? I'm seriously considering building some. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32155 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
opaqueice;176468 Wrote: What we do know is that they do occur, and very often - when people are asked which of two identical things are better, they almost never say these are identical, and almost always say this one is better. Not only that they have very specific (and wrong, since in these controlled experiments the two are identical) reasons for why one is better. This is an established fact, but for some reason many people are very resistant to it. I think this is a pretty broad assumption, and one that I don't agree with. Yes, there are those cases, but there are also lots of other cases. I've been involved in shootouts where people have heard no changes when a component was swapped in/out...and ones where people heard changes when nothing was changed. (The one I usually find most reliable is when my wife (a non-audiophile) walks into my listening room and asks did you change something? It sounds different today when all I've done is adjust a speaker placement, change a power cord, or yes, add a vibration control tweak. :-)) This particular tweak, and many others, is very hard to explain through physics. To accommodate it we would need either a very complicated and unlikely mechanism using known physics, or we would have to invoke something new and unknown. So we have two explanations for the same fact - one which we know is there, which has been confirmed again and again, and one which is very complicated and baroque or goes against centuries of accumulated knowledge. There's not much of a choice there, and so it isn't something interesting to investigage, because it's very easily explained with something boring and conventional. My general understanding of why vibration control devices are important in electronic gear (not just audio) is that movement/vibration of an electrical circuit theoretically has an effect on the magnetic fields being generated in the circuit. This is supposedly most apparent with the effects of vibration on a transformer (although in this case, there is no transformer in the SB chassis). I have no idea if this is correct, but based on my rudimentary understanding of electricity and magnetism, it seems to make sense. Btw - Gary, are you GBB from audiocircle.com? -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
opaqueice;176468 Wrote: Gary, it's not like that - there's no such assumption. We don't understand these psychological effects well enough to be able to say why they occur or what you will think you hear. What we do know is that they do occur, and very often - when people are asked which of two identical things are better, they almost never say these are identical, and almost always say this one is better. Not only that they have very specific (and wrong, since in these controlled experiments the two are identical) reasons for why one is better. This is an established fact, but for some reason many people are very resistant to it. This particular tweak, and many others, is very hard to explain through physics. To accommodate it we would need either a very complicated and unlikely mechanism using known physics, or we would have to invoke something new and unknown. So we have two explanations for the same fact - one which we know is there, which has been confirmed again and again, and one which is very complicated and baroque or goes against centuries of accumulated knowledge. There's not much of a choice there, and so it isn't something interesting to investigage, because it's very easily explained with something boring and conventional. Let me give one example (I'm purposely making it extreme to illustrate the point). Imagine you're a scientist, and someone came to you and said, when I flip this switch on the wall of my living room, the lights go on. Then when I flip it back they go back off. I think it's because there are some aliens watching that switch, and when it's up they immediately fly down from their saucer and make the lights light up. Now obviously there's a simple, plausible explanation which doesn't involve aliens - but the alien one isn't impossible! So at that point do you go to the effort of investigating? To stretch the analogy a little further, suppose the person came back and said, look, my house doesn't have any electricity, so it can't have to do with that, but the light still goes on! That's the equivalent of a double-blind test result - it eliminates the obvious explanation, leaving room for something more interesting. But without that it's really easy to explain, and not worth giving much credibility to the alien hypothesis. Sorry for such a long post, but do you see my point? You are really overcomplicating matters! There is no need for amazing explanations, only plausible ones. Personally I normally avoid possible explanations since they tend to turn into reality for some people. I can actually accept that things may happen which I don't fully understand. That's the starting point for further investigation. I might throw up some _posibilities_, since some people tend to say things are impossible even when clearly they are not. Your example isn't very good since you describe an actual effect looking for a cause, wheras in this tweak-case you don't believe there is any actual effect. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
P Floding;176441 Wrote: The sound actually is nohing like what I'm used to.. So much going on in this classical recording.. Here is a photo of the thing. Sorry about the bad light. The box on the left is the battery switcher and regulator. (Just did it again -startled myself listening to classical music. I must have gotten used to some dynamic compression or smearing before.) Cheers, (pic is fine) So are you saying that something has improved, and you like it better with the SB balanced on the cones ? wether or not its the cones or something else... H I'll search the shed when I get home see if anything may isolate. :) -- Deaf Cat Deaf Cat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=515 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
FatElvis2000;176462 Wrote: But also acts as an heat insulator not great for a warm/hot amp. Sure. I wasn't discussing relative merits. I was pointing out that a difference is well possible. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best reasonably priced DAC
The Benchmark DAC1 is $795, which I know since I just bought one and am extremely happy with it. The price of the Lavry DA10 is, as I recall, in that area. The Stello DA220 is about $1200. All get good reviews, there are various differences in their features and flexibility; in terms of sound quality, you can't go wrong with any of them. -- shyster shyster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9990 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32336 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
I am and I'm not supporting your point. I support the notion that psychological effects are present in many cases. I do not support the notion that when people are asked which of two identical things are better, they almost never say these are identical, and almost always say this one is better. When I try tweaks or component comparisons or other tests, I try to categorize the things I hear into one of three categories...(1) I hear a distinct difference that is easy to identify, (2) I hear a difference that I would probably only notice in an A/B comparison, or (3) I don't hear a difference. IMHO, categories (2) and (3) are ones that I might accept the idea that the differences I hear might be largely the result of psychological effects. IMHO, category (1) differences are significant enough that, if they were purely psychological, I might as well hang up the high end audio thing, buy a Bose WaveRadio, and imagine that it truly rocks... :-) (and I have heard vibration control products applied to my no-moving-parts components such as an amp or a DAC that fall into category (1) when compared to no vibration control tweaks. Admittedly, most comparisons of one vibration tweak versus another usually falls into category (2) and (3), with the only exceptions being Neuance Platforms and the TAOC platforms that I use) -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
Well, I don't want to get into a long OT argument, but famously John Atkinson also couldn't hear the difference between a tube and a solid state amp in a blind test. Not to mention tens or hundreds of blind tests in which the audience failed to as well. There are some (badly engineered) tube amps for which the difference really is obvious, but for most it's not at all. As for your categories, I do the same thing, but I've learned from bitter experience that sometimes things I had solidly put in category (1) turned out to be illusory. What's maybe more important here is that the boundaries of those categories, or the words people use to describe them, vary enormously from person to person. In fact many audiophiles will hardly admit there's any category (2) - if they hear a difference it's there, period. That's another reason blind tests are the only way to go - they provide an objective standard. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
opaqueice;176481 Wrote: Phil, you're exactly supporting my point. That's precisely what the psychological evidence shows - a lot of the time (how often depends entirely on the context) people perceive differences when none are there. In the context of audio I recently saw a study where 37% heard differences in the same amplifier, but there are cases where it's higher and lower (I can give an example where it was 100%). Would you trust a result with a 37% chance of being incorrect? Especially when positive results are much more likely to be reported? About your wife, again, we don't know the cause of these things. Maybe she cleaned her ears that morning, or ate something good for breakfast. Furthermore there's confirmation bias - you remember the times when that happened and not all the times it didn't. As for vibration etc., I'd rather not get into the specifics of this one. Let me just say I'm rather knowledgeable on the subject and I don't find that at all likely. PFloding, I think we disagree on what's plausible. And I disagree with your criticism of my analogy - there *is* an effect here: he heard a differnece. That's the only piece of evidence and the only thing that requires an explanation. But the point here is that the psychological explanation must be eliminated first, as it is by far the simplest and most plausible explanation. Sure. Double blind tests are the golden standard. However, I'm not doing this scientifically, but for my own sake, with my limited resources. (Which includes not wearing out other people asking for assistance in blind tests.) To somewhat compensate for the lack of rigorous scientific method I often revisit my preliminary conclusions. I let time be a factor. After all it is reality that is the reference here, and in the long run it is not all that hard to know if you are getting closer to reality or further away from it. I just gave my FPB200 a chance against my KSA-50S again, and this time, with the current SB3-TacT sound and balanced interconnects, it was no contest. The KSA-50S just blew the FPB200 away. (I'll do the same test again until I'm 98% sure I'm not imagining things.) -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital Coax - EH???
P Floding;176197 Wrote: (There are technical reasons for digital interconnects to sound different.) Are there any published measurements on the web I could review? I've never seen a technical reason, but only opinions and perceptions. -- FatElvis2000 FatElvis2000's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6725 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
PhilNYC;176471 Wrote: Btw - Gary, are you GBB from audiocircle.com? One and the same. I use the moniker GaryB on most audio boards but it was already taken on Audiocircle when I signed up. ---Gary -- GaryB GaryB's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
GaryB;176498 Wrote: One and the same. I use the moniker GaryB on most audio boards but it was already taken on Audiocircle when I signed up. ---Gary Great to see you here! Gary is one of the most talented DIYers I've had the pleasure of meeting (and I've met quite a few!)and an all-around great guy... -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital Coax - EH???
FatElvis2000;176497 Wrote: Are there any published measurements on the web I could review? I've never seen a technical reason, but only opinions and perceptions. The only technical reason I know of is jitter. It's clear that different cables can affect the jitter spectrum differently (depending on length, R, L, and C, impedance mismatches in the connectors causing reflections, etc.). However I've never seen any evidence that those differences are audible. Furthermore the best designed modern DACs are immune to jitter (that's clear from their design and has been verified by measurements), and most of the rest are quite resistant to it. If you do find any measurements on the effect of digital cables specifically I'd be curious to see them. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
opaqueice;176468 Wrote: Let me give one example (I'm purposely making it extreme to illustrate the point). Imagine you're a scientist, and someone came to you and said, when I flip this switch on the wall of my living room, the lights go on. Then when I flip it back they go back off. I think it's because there are some aliens watching that switch, and when it's up they immediately fly down from their saucer and make the lights light up. Sorry for such a long post, but do you see my point? The short answer, yes I see your point and no I still don't agree at all. Don't feel bad - these arguments tend to be polarizing and people are very set in their beliefs. I don't expect to change your mind and your shouldn't expect to change mine. Using your admittedly extreme example and applying it to this situation, I would make the following analogy. Some people in this thread seem to be saying that it's obvious that aliens aren't flipping the switch and because of that it's obvious that there is no way for the light to be going on and off. And they are unwilling to flip the switch for themselves to check whether it can go on or off since it's obvious that aliens can't be switching it on or off. ---Gary -- GaryB GaryB's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
GaryB;176502 Wrote: Some people in this thread seem to be saying that it's obvious that aliens aren't flipping the switch and because of that it's obvious that there is no way for the light to be going on and off. And they are unwilling to flip the switch for themselves to check whether it can go on or off since it's obvious that aliens can't be switching it on or off. I certainly don't expect to change your opinion - it's just that I'm interested in trying to understand your mindset, because I've noticed there's really a disconnect here and I'm curious about exactly what is the point where we diverge. I think my analogy didn't work very well - the lights going on is supposed to be analogous to you perceiving a difference. No one is disputing that the lights go on and off, or that you heard something. It's just a question of what's the best explanation for it - is it in your brain or is it in the sound? So faced with the fact that you heard something, we have two explanations: psychology or something unspecified but maybe having to do with vibrations or magnetic fields. As a research physicist that has decent familiarity with the cognitive psych literature (not to mention the results of blind tests in audio), I have a pretty good basis for judging plausibility here. It is certain that the psychological explanation highly plausible, which means you could never convince someone that it's a physical effect without eliminating that first. You could go on and ask how plausible is the physics explanation, and (at least in my professional judgement) it's highly implausible. That means, to me at least, that it's not worth investigating - if there were two plausible explanations it might be, but I don't think there are. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital Coax - EH???
P Floding;176503 Wrote: Such tests would be almost meaningless as it is the interaction between sender (output), cable and receiver (input) that decides the overall performance. Actually I think it would be quite interesting to see this effect measured under any circumstances. It would at least give some feel for the size and type of the effect, if any. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
At the risk of oversimplifying, it seems to me that the opposing positions can be summarized as: 1) I can hear a difference and that's good enough for me. 2) Until you can prove to me that you hear a difference I will remain skeptical. Each position is valid, although as I have said before, I am in camp 2) if you are asking me to open my wallet, lol. -- jeffmeh jeffmeh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
jeffmeh;176517 Wrote: At the risk of oversimplifying, it seems to me that the opposing positions can be summarized as: 1) I can hear a difference and that's good enough for me. 2) Until you can prove to me that you hear a difference I will remain skeptical. Each position is valid, although as I have said before, I am in camp 2) if you are asking me to open my wallet, lol. Yeah, me too :-). I think maybe we can add one more item to your list: 3) When is it worth investigating further? I would say it's when there's a reasonable chance there's something interesting there (obviously a judgement call). For example, tube amps typically have much higher distortion than SS amps, that's easy to measure. So when someone reports they hear a difference, there are two very plausible explanations: psychology and that the distortion is audible. In that case it's worth investigating further. In many tests (actually all the ones I've seen) it turned out the first explanation was correct, but that wasn't at all obvious a priori. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best reasonably priced DAC
Phil, Can you tell us anymore on the City Pulse Dac? I see that it has balanced out and a remote volume control - which would be nice. I'm assuming the volume control is in the analog domain rather than digital. How does it sound? Compared to a Benchmark Dac? Nice price for what looks like a lot of performance and features. Thanks, Bill -- mr_bill mr_bill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6737 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32336 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
Well, this was very interesting indeed.. I'm thinking about adding clipping indicators to the KSA-50S as I can now play extremely loud and still just see further into the sound stage the louder I play. (I'm a bit worried about my irreplacable treble units. And almost as worried about my irreplacable ears.) Yeah, shot me down for not immediately un-tweaking and mucking about to investigate further -but right now I just want to enjoy the sound! -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best reasonably priced DAC
Bill, I don't know much of the details of the Citipulse DAC other than that a friend has brought one over to my place during twice (during a local audio club meeting that I've hosted a couple of times), and both times I was very impressed with the sound. I'd put it in the same performance ballpark as the likes of the Benchmark in terms of all the things audiophiles like to talk about (imaging, soundstaging, etc)...but I prefer it to the Benchmark (I demoed the Benchmark for about 3 weeks a year ago and found it to be a bit too analytical and edgy in my system, whereas the Citipulse sounded warmer and more fluid). I use a Zhaolu DAC2.0 in my office system (Zhaolu is available from the same website, although the 2.0 has been replaced by the 2.5...). The Citipulse is a step above the Zhaolu 2.0, and I don't know anyone who has compared it to the Zhaolu 2.5... -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32336 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best reasonably priced DAC
PhilNYC;176548 Wrote: I use a Zhaolu DAC2.0 in my office system (Zhaolu is available from the same website, although the 2.0 has been replaced by the 2.5...). The Citipulse is a step above the Zhaolu 2.0, and I don't know anyone who has compared it to the Zhaolu 2.5... Phil, I take it that both of these obviously outplay built in DAC in SB3? Or, it's about a personal preference? -- slimkid slimkid's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8881 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32336 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Irritating whistle on right channel from SB3
Build them. You won't be sorry. I have a pair too (fed by SB2 w/linear PS and modded Art DIO DAC). -MA At least as far as I'm concerned it's not contentious that the linear might be less noisy, or might have less EMI (which can cause problems like a hum). What's more contentious is whether it can make a difference if it *doesn't* affect the noise floor (as seems to be the case with mine). How do you like the Orions? I'm seriously considering building some. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
Has anyone put a component on a vibrator (like a baby bouncer or such) to see if the inverse is true (i.e. vibrations are audible)? I know that with my Turntable, using isolation did help dramatically. I have yet to be convinced on things like the SB2 or amps, etc. -MA P Floding wrote: FatElvis2000;176462 Wrote: But also acts as an heat insulator not great for a warm/hot amp. Sure. I wasn't discussing relative merits. I was pointing out that a difference is well possible. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] High freq noise from analog out?
Matt B;121525 Wrote: I've just contacted Rothwell Audio and they will make attenuators with values other than their -10db standard. Matt, check out the list of attenuator manufacturers compiled on this wiki page: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?ConnectToPowerAmp Eric -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-BW Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best reasonably priced DAC
slimkid;176558 Wrote: I take it that both of these obviously outplay built in DAC in SB3? Or, it's about a personal preference? I'm not Phil, but I was at one of the audio club meetings where he heard the Citypulse and I was impressed enough to buy one. My squeezebox is pretty heavily modified as documented in a thread elsewhere, and the analog output sounds considerably better than the stock SB3. The Citypulse is a significant step better than my modified SB3, so I will offer the suggestion that it is an even bigger improvement over a stock SB3. Of course, I have no double blind tests to prove any of this 8-}. ---Gary -- GaryB GaryB's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32336 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter on the cover of Stereophile, Feb 2007 issue
opaqueice;176257 Wrote: No offense intended, but I couldn't disagree with you more. A huge proportion of high-end audio products are total garbage, at least from a price/performance point of view. It's true a $15,000 wire will conduct electricity, but so will a 10 cent wire, and so by any reasonable standard the $15,000 version should get a very, very bad review. Instead the reviewers spout nonsense about speed, timing, extension, etc., when in truth they'd be incapable of picking the thing out in a blind test. It's pretty despicable, really. If it is better, even marginally, then there is a cost/benefit analysis that may differ depending on your circumstances. If I am Bill Gates, I may see that $15k as so small that I may as well, but if I am living on slightly humbler means, I may instead choose to feed my children. I think almost all decent audio equipment sounds pretty good. Some I prefer to others, some I think are great bargains, others I don't understand what people see in them (I am glad Mr Floding prefers his old Krell, for example!). I have heard systems priced above £100k that sound (to my ears) much worse than mine. Others liked them. However, I know no-one who actually spends that much on audio - I'd need a load of dough to justify that sort of audio spend, given what else could be done with that cash! And I do agree that a reviewer should be able to pick out such differently-priced products in a blind test. Adam -- adamslim SB3 into Derek Shek d2, Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost cables http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31860 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best reasonably priced DAC
Ack! Dack 2 is a very good DAC for the money and may also tickle your sonic palette. Excellent with Bolder modified SB3. -- sonofcolin sonofcolin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9291 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32336 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
Michael Amster;176564 Wrote: Has anyone put a component on a vibrator (like a baby bouncer or such) to see if the inverse is true (i.e. vibrations are audible)? I know that with my Turntable, using isolation did help dramatically. I have yet to be convinced on things like the SB2 or amps, etc. -MA I one time brought an amp (solid state) to someone's home. Because of the way the room was set up, we had to place the amp about a foot away from the right speaker. He had Martin Logans, which have a huge woofer right at floor level. We played this one Dave Grusin track to try things out (track 8 from the CD Migration)...and everything sounded great until it got to this one part of the track that was really dynamic and bass-heavy. As soon as we got to that part of the track, the soundstage immediately collapsed and things sounded really flat and congested. We played the track 4-5 times, and it did the same thing every time. It was a track that this guy knew inside and out, and he started to insist that the amp couldn't provide enough power to the speakers to stay coherent at that point in the track. I happened to notice that he had some brass cones in his room, so on a whim, we put the brass cones on the amp. Played the track again, and guess what? Soundstage stayed open, the music wasn't congested anymore, and everything stayed coherent through that bass-heavy dynamic section. Apparently, the vibration caused by the amp sitting right next to the bass driver was reaching a point that was affecting the performance of the amp, and we were able to solve the problem by putting the brass weights on top of the amp to dampen the chassis. -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
opaqueice;176509 Wrote: As a research physicist that has decent familiarity with the cognitive psych literature (not to mention the results of blind tests in audio), I have a pretty good basis for judging plausibility here. It is certain that the psychological explanation highly plausible, which means you could never convince someone that it's a physical effect without eliminating that first. You could go on and ask how plausible is the physics explanation, and (at least in my professional judgement) it's highly implausible. Mr. Opaqueice (do you have a first name?), I think your academic credentials and job aren't particularly relevant to this discussion. And it comes across as a bit high handed - you can't convince us that are right so you bring in academic credentials to enhance the arguments that aren't good enough to do the job on their own. If I take Jeff's simplified version of the discussion: 1) I can hear a difference and that's good enough for me. 2) Until you can prove to me that you hear a difference I will remain skeptical. I think that second part isn't quite accurate. I think that part 2) is really: 2)I don't believe that you are hearing a real difference and I will insist that you aren't until you prove it to me. It's your job to prove it me, not my job to disprove that there's a real difference. This type of passive sniping from the sidelines is really a bit off putting. If you don't believe that there are differences with these tweaks that's fine - just leave us to have our fun. But it's not really necessary to turn every discussion into one about blind testing. After all, this is the Audiophiles board. ---Gary -- GaryB GaryB's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter on the cover of Stereophile, Feb 2007 issue
A Bentley is far more expensive than my Mazda 6. If I had the money to buy a Bentley, I probably would. Of course, I don't have the money, so I'll call Bentley owners idiots, say they're wasting their money, and proclaim that my Mazda 6 is all the car one needs. -- ezkcdude DIY projects page: http://www.ezdiyaudio.com System: SB3-EZDAC-MIT Terminator 2 interconnects-Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)-Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier-Speltz anti-cables-DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10 subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31860 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
GaryB;176593 Wrote: Mr. Opaqueice (do you have a first name?), I think your academic credentials and job aren't particularly relevant to this discussion. And it comes across as a bit high handed - you can't convince us that are right so you bring in academic credentials to enhance the arguments that aren't good enough to do the job on their own. If I take Jeff's simplified version of the discussion: I think that second part isn't quite accurate. I think that part 2) is really: 2)I don't believe that you are hearing a real difference and I will insist that you aren't until you prove it to me. It's your job to prove it me, not my job to disprove that there's a real difference. This type of passive sniping from the sidelines is really a bit off putting. If you don't believe that there are differences with these tweaks that's fine - just leave us to have our fun. But it's not really necessary to turn every discussion into one about blind testing. After all, this is the Audiophiles board. ---Gary I disagree with your characterization of 2. 2. Until you can prove to me that you hear a difference which is caused by factors which are not purely psychological, and which are repeatable under controlled conditions (and by others, as well), I will remain skeptical. I don't believe that you, I, or anyone else is immune from expectation effects. See my point about experiments earlier. In the hard sciences, experiments aren't considered valid unless they meet the two conditions about control and repeatability. This is essentially makes the whole I heard it thing in a sighted test by one person unconvincing, and definitely NOT even close to a valid experiment And I'd like to point out that the accusation of arrogance leveled against proponents of blind testing is a canard. It's not that we don't believe any particular person: it's that we think the same basic laws apply to all of us. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
GaryB;176593 Wrote: Mr. Opaqueice (do you have a first name?), I think your academic credentials and job aren't particularly relevant to this discussion. And it comes across as a bit high handed - you can't convince us that are right so you bring in academic credentials to enhance the arguments that aren't good enough to do the job on their own. Sorry for that; I almost never mention what I do exactly because I would rather have the argument stand on its own. The only reason I mentioned it this time is that it was particularly relevant to the question of how plausible it is that vibration could have a significant effect. Let's forget it. 2)I don't believe that you are hearing a real difference and I will insist that you aren't until you prove it to me. It's your job to prove it me, not my job to disprove that there's a real difference. This type of passive sniping from the sidelines is really a bit off putting. If you don't believe that there are differences with these tweaks that's fine - just leave us to have our fun. But it's not really necessary to turn every discussion into one about blind testing. After all, this is the Audiophile board. A couple of comments - first, I'm not insisting on anything, I'm simply expressing my opinion. It's no one's job to prove anything here; none of us here work in that field AFAIK (although some people do and it [b[is[/b] their job; I know some of them, and it might be instructive to read what they have to say about this). As for the second part of your comment, these boards are for people that care about audio to exchange information. Healthy skepticism regarding particular tweaks is useful (at least for some of us) and highly relevant. Furthermore your implication that audiophile precludes mention of blind testing is a good example of how polarized and far from the reality this discussion has become, so much so that any mention of it is even banned on some fora. To me, audiophile means someone that cares about sound quality. I'm an audiophile, and that's exactly why I think blind testing is crucial. It's impossible to discuss or learn more about the subject without it coming up. It's unfortunate that it also leads to acrimonious debate, but please, let's try to avoid that. I apologize if I gave offense; it wasn't my intention. Now, can we get back to the subject, if you're still interested? I would still like to know what you think about the possibility that what you heard isn't due to a physical difference in the sound but rather to something like the placebo effect. Are you sure it wasn't? If so, how? -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best reasonably priced DAC
slimkid;176558 Wrote: Phil, I take it that both of these obviously outplay built in DAC in SB3? Or, it's about a personal preference? Well, it's almost always about personal preference... :-) ...but yes, I would guess that most people would agree that both the Citipulse and the Zhaolu outplay the built-in DAC in the SB3. -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32336 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
totoro;176599 Wrote: One last point: audiophilia does NOT necessarily imply the belief in tweaks, cables, or whatever. It simply has to do with a love of good sound and sound reproduction. It is extremely presumptuous to assume otherwise. Someone who doesn't believe in wooden pucks or cables or the magic knob or the supremacy of SET amps or whatever can still be an audiophile, and has as much of a right to be here as anyone else. I don't think he was implying that audiophilia was about the belief in tweaks, cables, or whatever. I believe his point was to say that audiophilia is not about double-blind testing. And while Gary is not one to throw is credentials out to the forum, I'll mention that it's entirely probable that in a competition of credentials on this forum, it's likely that Gary would win hands-down... ;-) -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
opaqueice;176601 Wrote: To me, audiophile means someone that cares about sound quality. I'm an audiophile, and that's exactly why I think blind testing is crucial. IMHO, this is kind of an oxymoron. If something sounds good to you, why would a blind test matter at all? -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
PhilNYC;176609 Wrote: IMHO, this is kind of an oxymoron. If something sounds good to you, why would a blind test matter at all? Because you could be deluding yourself, and next week you'll discover it sounds the same (and you're out X dollars). -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
opaqueice;176601 Wrote: Now, can we get back to the subject, if you're still interested? I would still like to know what you think about the possibility that what you heard isn't due to a physical difference in the sound but rather to something like the placebo effect. Are you sure it wasn't? If so, how? Did you not read his last sentence*? Blind testing is not the subject. Whether or not people have tried isolating feet is the subject. If people get sniped every time they express an opinion there will be no more opinions to snipe, and we'll all sit around and talk about how great the Audio Critic is. Gary Wrote: *If you don't believe that there are differences with these tweaks that's fine - just leave us to have our fun. But it's not really necessary to turn every discussion into one about blind testing. After all, this is the Audiophiles board. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
PhilNYC;176607 Wrote: I don't think he was implying that audiophilia was about the belief in tweaks, cables, or whatever. I believe his point was to say that audiophilia is not about double-blind testing. And while Gary is not one to throw is credentials out to the forum, I'll mention that it's entirely probable that in a competition of credentials on this forum, it's likely that Gary would win hands-down... ;-) Considering Gary justifiably complained about opaqueice making an argument by authority in his last post, I would expect him not to. Your further argument by authority achieves nothing. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
Skunk;176611 Wrote: Did you not read his last sentence*? Blind testing is not the subject. Whether or not people have tried isolating feet is the subject. If people get sniped every time they express an opinion there will be no more opinions to snipe, and we'll all sit around and talk about how great the Audio Critic is. Talking about whether this would even work, or there is any reason to believe that there is anything beyond placebo in any differences is actually pretty on target, I would say. I could make the obverse argument: if we don't chime in on these tweaker discussions, this will turn into a forum for audio mystics, and any skepticism will be shouted down. All depends on your point of view. That's why we have discussions. See my earlier comment about presumption. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
GaryB;176593 Wrote: Mr. Opaqueice (do you have a first name?), I think your academic credentials and job aren't particularly relevant to this discussion. And it comes across as a bit high handed - you can't convince us that are right so you bring in academic credentials to enhance the arguments that aren't good enough to do the job on their own. If I take Jeff's simplified version of the discussion: I think that second part isn't quite accurate. I think that part 2) is really: 2)I don't believe that you are hearing a real difference and I will insist that you aren't until you prove it to me. It's your job to prove it me, not my job to disprove that there's a real difference. This type of passive sniping from the sidelines is really a bit off putting. If you don't believe that there are differences with these tweaks that's fine - just leave us to have our fun. But it's not really necessary to turn every discussion into one about blind testing. After all, this is the Audiophiles board. ---Gary As I said, I think each position I cited in my earlier post is valid. And yes, I think the burden of proof should be on the tweaker, not on the skeptic. Whether either chooses to invest the time to investigate is another matter. If the skeptic were to try to disprove that tweaker hears a difference, how would he go about it? If the tweaker were to try to prove that he hears a difference, how would he go about it? ABX testing is required to make either case. -- jeffmeh jeffmeh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
totoro;176610 Wrote: Because you could be deluding yourself, and next week you'll discover it sounds the same (and you're out X dollars). Well, apparently my psychology is such that the placebo effects are consistent and relatively permanent. :-) But again, as has been said in this thread, for those of us who choose to indulge in swapping power cords, vibration control devices, etc, it is really tiring to be told again and again about double-blind testing. -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
Btw- I do have a question for those folks here who believe that double-blind testing is the only way to prove that differences really exist: Do you hear differences when you change something and just chalk it up to some psychological effect? Or do you not hear changes at all? -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
totoro;176613 Wrote: Talking about whether this would even work, or there is any reason to believe that there is anything beyond placebo in any differences is actually pretty on target, I would say. I could make the obverse argument: if we don't chime in on these tweaker discussions, this will turn into a forum for audio mystics, and any skepticism will be shouted down. All depends on your point of view. That's why we have discussions. See my earlier comment about presumption. Let's just assume, for a minute, that oscillator crystals are indeed quite microphonic. Of course, their long term accuracy would not be affected as any microphony would just create ripples in the output frequency -not affect the total number of osciallations per time unit. However, the derived clock from such a crystal would carry a direct imprint of the vibrations causing the microphony, in the form of time modulation (jitter). I don't find this explanation in the least bit implausible. BTW, please let knowledgable DIY'ers that show up here have SOME freedom to share their knowledge and speculate, and EVEN air some subjective points of view! I for one would like to be able to discuss modifications etc with people like Gary (who knows the SBs in and out, I believe). The it must be ABX:ed standard response will only drive everyone away from here. Rgds -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
PhilNYC;176617 Wrote: Well, apparently my psychology is such that the placebo effects are consistent and relatively permanent. :-) But again, as has been said in this thread, for those of us who choose to indulge in swapping power cords, vibration control devices, etc, it is really tiring to be told again and again about double-blind testing. Yep, and it's really annoying for people on the other side to hear about it again and again. And it's even more annoying seeing newbies come in and being told that they should spend some huge percentage of their (relatively small) budget on tweaks/cables/etc, which would clearly be better spent on actual equipment/ IMHO, the greater and greater irrelevance of high-end audio is to a great degree a result of this stuff. Most normal people, and _especially_ people with more technical backgrounds, get really turned off by the golden ears/mysticism stuff, and simply walk away. And the greater and greater irrelevancy makes it harder and harder to hear/buy new stuff, so it affects everyone. Just my $.02. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
Btw- I do have a question for those folks here who believe that double-blind testing is the only way to prove that differences really exist: Do you hear differences when you change something and just chalk it up to some psychological effect? Or do you not hear changes at all? Sometimes I hear differences, sometimes not. When I got my current amp I heard a very subtle difference compared to the old one. I'm not sure if it was real or not - I actually tried to do a good blind A/B test, but it wasn't easy and in the end I decided to keep it for various (non-audio quality related) reasons. When I recently replaced my PS with a linear I didn't hear a difference. When I got new speakers, and whenever I move them around much, and whenever I run Inguz's plugin for room correction, I hear enormous differences. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
totoro;176623 Wrote: Yep, and it's really annoying for people on the other side to hear about it again and again. And it's even more annoying seeing newbies come in and being told that they should spend some huge percentage of their (relatively small) budget on tweaks/cables/etc, which would clearly be better spent on actual equipment/ IMHO, the greater and greater irrelevance of high-end audio is to a great degree a result of this stuff. Most normal people, and _especially_ people with more technical backgrounds, get really turned off by the golden ears/mysticism stuff, and simply walk away. And the greater and greater irrelevancy makes it harder and harder to hear/buy new stuff, so it affects everyone. Just my $.02. I haven't seen many recommendations to buy expensive stuff. Personally I recommend the DIY-route. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
PhilNYC;176617 Wrote: Well, apparently my psychology is such that the placebo effects are consistent and relatively permanent. :-) But again, as has been said in this thread, for those of us who choose to indulge in swapping power cords, vibration control devices, etc, it is really tiring to be told again and again about double-blind testing. I can understand that it is tiresome. It is also tiresome to be subjected to the enormous number of claims regarding tweaks that one could make, given that they are rarely supported by anything more than anecdotal evidence. Please do not misinterpret me. I do not mean to suggest that you are not hearing what you claim to hear, nor do I think that you need to prove it to anyone. On the other hand, I do think it is reasonable for one to require stronger evidence before being convinced. -- jeffmeh jeffmeh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
jeffmeh;176628 Wrote: I can understand that it is tiresome. It is also tiresome to be subjected to the enormous number of claims regarding tweaks that one could make, given that they are rarely supported by anything more than anecdotal evidence. Please do not misinterpret me. I do not mean to suggest that you are not hearing what you claim to hear, nor do I think that you need to prove it to anyone. On the other hand, I do think it is reasonable for one to require stronger evidence before being convinced. If you don't believe in it, just ignore it. The only reason to be upset is if you suspect fraud. Go check out the Transparent top of the range speaker cables. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
PhilNYC;176630 Wrote: Point taken. I think the irrelevance of high end audio has nothing to do with the tweakers et al. I think it is squarely on the demise of quality music that you'd want to actually play on a good system. :-( I think it has at least _something_ to do with the increasing tweakism and snobbery at a large percentage of the few remaining outposts of high end retail. Whenever anyone new hears that I'm into audio, they start snickering and asking me if I own super expensive speaker cables and electrical cords. This seems significant to me. I'm a little puzzled about the demise of music claim, but my puzzlement probably doesn't mean much, since I listen mostly to jazz and baroque, which makes me an outlier. But anyway, my main point is that the two sides in this debate should be allowed to annoy each other, as long as it can be kept civil. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
PhilNYC;176609 Wrote: IMHO, this is kind of an oxymoron. If something sounds good to you, why would a blind test matter at all? I guess this is an attitude you could take. So let me ask this - if something sounded good to you, but later under blind test conditions you discovered you couldn't tell the difference, would you care? Would you keep that component in the system rather than a cheaper one which sounded identical to you blind? -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
jeffmeh;176628 Wrote: Please do not misinterpret me. I do not mean to suggest that you are not hearing what you claim to hear, nor do I think that you need to prove it to anyone. On the other hand, I do think it is reasonable for one to require stronger evidence before being convinced. I understand that. But sometimes it feels like being asked to prove that the grass is green and the sky is blue. As I said previously, I try to categorize things I hear into three categories, and am totally acceptable that there are things that I think I hear that are possibly (probably?) the result of a psychological effect. But there are also things that I have experienced where the difference is so incredibly obvious that if it were really just a mind trick, I would have to believe that I could buy a stereo system from Costco and just believe really hard that it sounded great... :-) -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
PhilNYC;176635 Wrote: I understand that. But sometimes it feels like being asked to prove that the grass is green and the sky is blue. As I said previously, I try to categorize things I hear into three categories, and am totally acceptable that there are things that I think I hear that are possibly (probably?) the result of a psychological effect. But there are also things that I have experienced where the difference is so incredibly obvious that if it were really just a mind trick, I would have to believe that I could buy a stereo system from Costco and just believe really hard that it sounded great... :-) It's a truly disturbing thing to realize how powerful these mind tricks can be. Unfortunately it's also a fact. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
totoro;176634 Wrote: , they start snickering and asking me if I own super expensive speaker cables and electrical cords. This seems significant to me. That happens to me too. And you know what the first thing I do is? I have them sit through an interconnect swap...and 9 times out of 10, they are amazed at the difference (admittedly, I choose two sets of cables that I believe are as different sonically as they can get...although I don't usually tell them what I'm doing). :-) -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
opaqueice;176636 Wrote: I guess this is an attitude you could take. So let me ask this - if something sounded good to you, but later under blind test conditions you discovered you couldn't tell the difference, would you care? Would you keep that component in the system rather than a cheaper one which sounded identical to you blind? Certainly I'd case enough to get the cheaper one (am always cost-conscious!). I'll admit that I've cut down a lot on my use of tweaks in the last few years...pretty much anything that is expensive that I'd need an A/B comparison to notice, I don't use anymore, and even some cheap items I've stopped using because they don't look nice or they are inconvenient in my setup. But I strongly believe in clean AC power, vibration control, and that cables/cords make a difference (not necessarily that more expensive = better)...and have participated in single-blind tests that convince me that I'm really hearing what I think I'm hearing. -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
PhilNYC Wrote: IMHO, this is kind of an oxymoron. If something sounds good to you, why would a blind test matter at all? PhilNYC;176641 Wrote: Certainly I'd care enough to get the cheaper one (am always cost-conscious!). Sounds like you've answered your own question. You mean the grass isn't green? ;-) Not the last time I checked - it was brown! - nor is the sky blue... :-) -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
opaqueice;176645 Wrote: Sounds like you've answered your own question. Well, no...because you asked me about a component, not a tweak. If you had asked the same question, but regarding a $50 set of cones rather than an amplifier (presumably expensive), I really wouldn't have cared a whole lot... -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
There's another important point which hasn't yet been made here. Let's suppose one of these tweaks - like vibration isolation for the SB - really does make a difference (as verified by blind tests and/or measurements). Great - where do we go from there? That's not very useful knowledge unless we know *why* it made a difference, because otherwise we're just fumbling around in the dark - we have no idea how to further improve things, or even whether the tweak actually improved things or made them worse! The only way to proceed is to carefully investigate, in other words, do science, or something close to it. And that requires reliable and reproducible testing, it requires avoiding the confounding factors which arise in sighted listening tests, it requires lots of care and attention to statistics - in other words it's a pain, but unforunately it's the only way to go. And the very first step is to separate the tweaks which work from those which don't - surely no one thinks *all* of them make a difference? So if tweaker audiophiles (I don't mean that as a derogatory term, I'm just not sure what else to call it) really care about audio, they should be eager to investigate their tweaks and try to uncover which are real, and from there why they work, right? And if they think their tweaks are real, they have nothing to lose from that, and more importantly if some turn out not to matter they can focus on those that do. Then engineers and designers might take those tweaks seriously and improve on them. But that just can't happen, or it's much harder, when there's all this sillyness around. I just don't understand how you can care about audio and not want to know what really makes a difference. Or if you do want to know, why it's so hard to accept that sighted tests are deeply flawed and often very very misleading. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best reasonably priced DAC
What DAC chip is the 7.2 based on? What output OPAMPs? The page does not say... slimkid wrote: PhilNYC;176548 Wrote: I use a Zhaolu DAC2.0 in my office system (Zhaolu is available from the same website, although the 2.0 has been replaced by the 2.5...). The Citipulse is a step above the Zhaolu 2.0, and I don't know anyone who has compared it to the Zhaolu 2.5... Phil, I take it that both of these obviously outplay built in DAC in SB3? Or, it's about a personal preference? ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best reasonably priced DAC
And preferably under $750.00. That seems to be my upper limit. -- milton10 milton10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9165 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32336 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best reasonably priced DAC
Hello, You may want to check out the Paradisea DAC hand-built in Taiwan and sold only on e-bay. $530 shipped to the US. http://www.geocities.com/mhdtlab/ Tube buffer and damn nice sounding DAC. It can be hard to get though. You have to watch e-bay and grab it fast as they go fast. -- anicca anicca's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4519 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32336 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anyone heard the SB+?
Before I came across the SB+, I was considering a SB3 plus 47 Labs dac. I did not end up doing a comparison because I was pleased eith the + demo. -- musicheadhunter musicheadhunter's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9961 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32118 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
I used a green marker to paint all the bits coming into my SB2. 100% better Eric -- kolding kolding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] time for a DBT-free zone??
I've been away from this forum for quite a few months and decided to pop in yesterday. I contributed to Deaf Cat's thread on whether isolating feet might help the SB3 and quickly found myself mired in a discussion about double blind testing (DBT). On other forums that I frequent, the moderators occasionally declare a DBT-free zone so that this doesn't happen. What do people think? Is there a need for a DBT-free zone here so that threads don't get hijacked with fruitless discussions that don't seem to enlighten either side? ---Gary -- GaryB GaryB's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32352 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] time for a DBT-free zone??
I don't think censorship is ever a good solution. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32352 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] time for a DBT-free zone??
I was poking around the site and found this quote from Sean Adams which I find quite apropos. ---Gary seanadams;90206 Wrote: On a slight tangent if you happen to be poking around my seldom-updated web site you may notice that every once in a while I update the quote at the top of the page depending on whatever I happen to be thinking about at that moment. The most recent is from Freud, who lambasted his peers as being a shining example of the repugnance to learning anything new, which is characteristic of men of science. It has certainly been an ear-opener for me to discover what some trained listeners can detect... If better sound is your goal, keep an open mind, and by no means take any suggestion at face value! -- GaryB GaryB's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32352 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] time for a DBT-free zone??
I don't mind DBT being brought up, but hate the forums being used as a personal soapbox. This is why Al Gore invented the internet; so people can have their own sites about which bands are ghey, or which testing method they prefer. To me bringing it up is asking: 'did any testing take place?'. If the answer is no, the questioner should know to ignore this persons opinion-- but realize they weren't handed a soapbox. Two cents is plenty. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32352 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] time for a DBT-free zone??
I just reread the thread in question, and have to disagree with you , skunk, if you are asserting the soapboxing was all on the dbt side (primarily me and opaqueice). The slide into that debate was initiated by garyb's remark that it was amazingly unscientific to make a judgement on a claim without any experimental work (NB:he didn't provide any valid experiments to support his position, in any event). That got the ball rolling. I saw just as much soapboxing on the other side: it wasn't as if one side was posting and the other wasn't. You seem to be asserting that we should have rolled over. We didn't and neither did garyb or philinny. Why should we have (and, conversely, I don't see why they should have, either)? Why were we getting on a soapbox while they weren't? Sorry, I just don't buy it, and I don't think the record supports it. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32352 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] time for a DBT-free zone??
totoro;176728 Wrote: I just reread the thread in question I didn't realize there was a thread in question, but agree that both sides of the argument get tedious at times. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32352 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] time for a DBT-free zone??
Ah, sorry, from garyb's post, I figured he was talking about the Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ? thread. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32352 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] time for a DBT-free zone??
totoro;176735 Wrote: Ah, sorry, from garyb's post, I figured he was talking about the Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ? thread. Me too, you're right. I meant my comments weren't directed at a particular thread or person. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32352 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] time for a DBT-free zone??
Skunk;176736 Wrote: Me too, you're right. I meant my comments weren't directed at a particular thread or person. BTW, totally OT, but on a more pleasant topic, have you tried that latest release that inguz put out? It might help with your drc issues. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32352 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] time for a DBT-free zone??
totoro;176738 Wrote: BTW, totally OT, but on a more pleasant topic, have you tried that latest release that inguz put out? It might help with your drc issues. Never thought I'd live to see a DBT thread go off topic with helpful audiophile advice :-) I did install it when upgrading slimserver, but haven't had time to repeat the sweeps, which were likely the problem anyway. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32352 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] time for a DBT-free zone??
PhilNYC;176716 Wrote: But treaties and compromises are often great solutions... Well, I'm certainly open to suggestions. But I really don't see how we can have an interesting discussion when there's some kind of gag order on a topic that's of major relevance. The effect it would have would be to drive away many of the contributors to this forum, which I suppose might be the intent. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32352 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
totoro;176345 Wrote: Yep, I would think so. I'd think for vibration absorbing, though, you'd want something like sorbothane, rather than a really hard wood. I believe the theory is that the sorbothane supports isolate the device, but allow no path for release of vibrational energy. Imagine how a subwoofer can make you pant leg flap, and it's clear that hovering a component mid-air wouldn't be the ultimate solution. Your opinion on the Audio Point supporting material would be interesting. http://www.starsoundtechnologies.com/livevibe.html -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] time for a DBT-free zone??
GaryB;176705 Wrote: I've been away from this forum for quite a few months and decided to pop in yesterday. I contributed to Deaf Cat's thread on whether isolating feet might help the SB3 and quickly found myself mired in a discussion about double blind testing (DBT). On other forums that I frequent, the moderators occasionally declare a DBT-free zone so that this doesn't happen. What do people think? Is there a need for a DBT-free zone here so that threads don't get hijacked with fruitless discussions that don't seem to enlighten either side? ---Gary I have suggested before that the Audiophile section should be more or less DBT-free. DBT is a general debate and to bring it in in every single instance when anyone has any subjective views makes it OT. I don't know what it is with the Internet, but imagine a physical room where people try to discuss their subjective views and one or more people repeatedly say that subjective views are worthless, and the only thing worth anything is DBT. It is a conversation killer if ever there was one -and it has the same effect here. Unfortunately the moderators here don't clamp down on discussion wrecking. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32352 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any one tried isolating feet on their SB ?
Skunk;176747 Wrote: I believe the theory is that the sorbothane supports isolate the device, but allow no path for release of vibrational energy. Imagine how a subwoofer can make you pant leg flap, and it's clear that hovering a component mid-air wouldn't be the ultimate solution. Your opinion on the Audio Point supporting material would be interesting. http://www.starsoundtechnologies.com/livevibe.html As is so common I didn't care for the scientific explanations on that site. They are using the terminology in a way that is inconsistent with real scientific understanding (a.k.a mumbo-jumbo or drivel). The product might work, but I'd look for cheap alternatives on the assumption that these guys are mostly fumbling in the dark. Rgds -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32301 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
