Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
mswlogo;199204 Wrote: There is a strong bias by audiophiles that Coax (RCA) is better than TosLink. I wouldn't avoid RCA 75ohm Coax just because there is a debate over BNC vs RCA connectors. My understanding is that RCA connectors are fine at the speeds and distances SPDIF runs. Hmmm - bias indeed. In fact in some systems TOSLINK sounds better. In many systems there is no audible difference. Since the choice of SPDIF vs. TOSLINK is system-dependant, the best thing to do is to listen and then choose. -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
yes but when you get women you lose both power and money... -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A photo of your Squeezebox setup (please)
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=19817 Question: Should there be a new forum for photos? - yes - no - maybe Main system: Bolder-modded SB3 + Elpac PS - digital coax - Bryston BP25DA - Bryston 4B SST - Wilson Audio Watt Puppy 7s Headphone rig (shown below): Transporter - XLR balanced interconnects - HeadRoom Max Balanced amp -AKG 701s (balanced) Currently running Slimserver on a 450Mhz Mac Cube (fanless). Recently discovered the amazing Inguz DRC plugin -- so I now have to build a fanless 2Ghz mini-ITX PC... +---+ |Filename: IMG_2374.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2756| +---+ -- muski muski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3670 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=19817 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Pale Blue Ego Wrote: How would this work, exactly? It sounds like all devices, hardware and software, now and in the future, would have to license the codec and DRM scheme for this super wonderful format. One company would have complete control over the whole recording, distribution, and playback chain. If they decided to charge $20 per song, drop the tags and lyrics, and reduce the sound quality, what recourse would consumers have? If they control the DRM, they can change the terms of the contract any time they want. And what happens when the DRM is cracked? Throw everything away and start over? And what about the analog hole? Couldn't you just record it to an open format by digitizing the analog output or using a microphone? And what about artists or hardware makers who refused to play along? Jail them? What about music from other countries? Our laws don't apply there. Well how about one company making a a Secure Cryptoprocessor / Decompression / DAC chip with tamper-resistant properties and only analogue outputs. Anyone who wanted to build a device would use that chip in thier product. With good economies of scaale and this component being beyond most manufactures thats a nice solution as well. With the product available off the shelf small players would have no problem getting in. Same as Windows PCs can be buiult by anyone. In the same way why put the vendor though the hassle of running a web site maintaining the users backups and taking payments etc. A global portal which did all this and everyone uses brings the cost down and makes life nicer for the consumer. If you are a band you put a link your track on the global portal. This is going to be much cheaper than selling CDs in shops so the price will come way down as the retailer cut goes to zero. All this hardware security, encription, web site with backup and encrypted keys etc should be managed by an industry consortium. If it's broken. The system above is a secure as the chip on you creit card. It's not going to be broken. If someone working at the compnay released some details then legal action must prevent web sites publishing details or files. Analoge recording is OK becuase the quality is lower and the tags are missing. That's part of the idea. Some poor people will stick to old CDs and analogue recordings but everyone who can will upgrade. It's kind of nice becuase the kids can still play pirate mp3s but the grown ups with money can get the quality product. Other countries - if they want this technology they will have to play along. In practice iTunes sell music to must of the world anyway. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;199224 Wrote: Well how about one company making a a Secure Cryptoprocessor / Decompression / DAC chip with tamper-resistant properties and only analogue outputs. You don't realise, do you, that such a chip would not be an audiophile device. Complex microprocessors require different fabrication techniques to high quality mixed-signal circuits, and interference from the digital circuitry is a problem too. The analogue stage would be inherently compromised, completely negating the benefit of the 24-bit original. In the same way why put the vendor though the hassle of running a web site maintaining the users backups How long do you think it would take to re-download all your music if the SIM card (or whatever) were damaged? My collection - quite a small one compared to many - runs to about 4000 songs, each around 40MB each in FLAC format, which is 160GBytes. On my internet connection that's about 2 weeks' solid downloading, and a definite violation of my ISP's fair use policy. A global portal which did all this and everyone uses brings the cost down and makes life nicer for the consumer. Rubbish. Show me ONE case where a monopoly has ever been good for the consumer. If your DRM actually works then you've just put the music industry in the position where they really can charge whatever they like - the WORST POSSIBLE outcome for the consumer. If it's broken- The system above is as secure as the chip on you creit card and is not going to be broken. If someone working at the company released some details then legal action must prevent web sites publishing details or files. Like this DIGG HD DVD thing - that must be stopped. Now I really don't know whether to laugh or cry. How do you think people find out that a system - like AACS, for example - has been cracked in the first place? That's right, they read about it on the Internet, by which time it's already too late. Cat out of bag, genie out of bottle... and of course, you fully appreciate that the Internet is global, so US law simply doesn't apply to most of its users. Analoge recording is OK becuase the quality is lower and the tags are missing. That's part of the idea. Some poor people will stick to old CDs and analogue recordings but everyone who can will upgrade. It's kind of nice becuase the kids can still play pirate mp3s but the grown ups with money can get the quality product. Then the DRM is serving no purpose at all. -- AndyC_772 AndyC_772's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;199224 Wrote: Lots of idiotic rambling Somehow I get the impression that you personally invested a lot of money in the musicindustry, specifically the big four. If you still don't get it: DRM is not the way! EMI seems to be getting a clue, but I'm not sure yet. If you want me or most other people to buy more music, you probably should try to get mobile phones illegal (so the money they spend on ringtones etc. can be spend on music) And make CD's cheaper, the productioncosts of a CD are close to nothing and still they charge me around 17 euros for a new album... now if the money was going to the people who really do the creative work... tamperresistant... LMAOROTFL only analog out... LMAOSHIH Somehow I get the idea you don't know what you're talking about... -- servies servies's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9496 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anyone with a Bryston amp/dac and SB/Transporter - How does the Bryston dac sound ?
Hiya, If anyone does have the above, would love to hear why you prefer which dac. Cheers :) -- Deaf Cat Deaf Cat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=515 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34969 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Inguz Audio tips and initial impressions
I'm just about to get a new PC partly so I can run InguzDRC. Would a 1.8Ghz core2duo E4300 be sufficient (with 2GB RAM)? thanks -- parrydave *modded squeezebox 3/arcam cd92t/arcam a85/arcam avr300 dynaudio contour 1.3mkii/dynaudio focus 200c/mk k-4/rel q150 pioneer pdp-507xd/sky+/harmony 525* parrydave's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6079 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29489 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
now i wrote and article on the subject and put lots of examples. is there anyone out there who can explain to all these wallies why sky digital encription has never been broken, why credit card comany sim cards have never been broken, why mobile sim cards have not been broken? have a look at smart cards on wiki. the concept of tamper proof harware is not new and its silly to say you can't have a dac in one. burr brown dac's cost about $20 it's the stuff around that really adds up. amd are working on secure areas inside thier new processors so drm can be properly implemented on the pc. if you all opposed to drm why don't you switch off your cable tvs. and forget about video on demand - who is going to pay for that when a russian guy can subscribe once and put all films on the web. and this stuff about buying books is silly. lets start up a compnay that sells photcopies. sorry it's like talking to children... -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;199246 Wrote: if you all opposed to drm why don't you switch off your tv subscription. and forget about video on demand - who is going to pay for that when a Russian guy can subscribe once and put all films on the web. Hope these tv examples appeal to the American crowd.. for the Europeans, lets start up a company that sells photocopies of books thats freedom at its best oh how rational itunes drm was crap is a legitimate complaint, but to say all copy protection should be removed is retarded... This is good trolling -- I know I shouldn't feed you but I can't stop myself responding. (I do like the use of unexpected cultural stereotypes though.) _Technical_ copy protection also stops certain fair uses, and sometimes (but not always) stops piracy. As well as partially achieving its stated goal, it removes freedom that one should legally have: a copy can no longer be made as a backup, or to format-shift. What's left if you remove all technical copy protection? Copyright law. It's already illegal to sell photocopies of books to which you don't hold the rights. Nobody but you is suggesting removal of _all_ copy protection, just technical measures that prohibit fair use. There will still be copyright law which prevents your examples above. Being opposed to DRM doesn't mean that one is opposed to copyrights at all. It doesn't mean that one will automatically try to acquire media without paying. Do you believe that all people are dishonest, and that it's just DRM stopping everyone from getting all their music for free? How do you explain tape and CD sales before the age of widespread DRM? -- smst smst's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=752 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
I think that Russian guy has already put all the films on the web - isn't it called bit torrent or something? And the reason people pay for Sky TV, is for the live sports events (I don't bother as it happens). -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] NJM2041M to OPA2604 replacement
I have a question about the often in this forum mentioned replacement of the NJM2041 opamp for the OPA2604 in the SQB3 I have pulled the datasheet this morning and came to the (possible wrong?) conclusion that both opamps have just a few things in common... they are opamps and they have a similair package. IOV, IOC and IBC all differs, so my question is: Is the SQB3 operating within such parameters that the NJM2041M can be replaced by an OPA2604 in SO-8 package? -- 211audio 211audio's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11414 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34970 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Being opposed to DRM doesn't mean that one is opposed to copyright Not in your case but now think rationally: DRM is a device that intellectual property holders use to protect illegal use of their digital product. In a world where everyone is perfectly honest it would not be needed. It's never been needed in the past becuase data was not digital. It's becoming the critical issue of the day as data does move digital. It's absolutely clear that people are not perfectly honest, in most people are only prevented from breaking the law by fear of punsihment or physical devices that prevent them. That's why houses have locks on the door, why airports have scanners so nutter don't blow themselves up, why most countries make you carry an id card, why most countries don't let you buy handguns, and we have prisions filled with people (by the way did you know that in america you have the largest prison population in the world both by number and proportion - a stereotype to keep you happy :-). DRM is very obviously a necessary evil. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Now I'm sure. You don't know what you're talking about or you are paid by some musiccompany or the RIAA/MPAA... -- servies servies's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9496 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
No i am just real right wing and quite smart and a bit bored and like playing... Wanted to be a politician but everyone found me obnoxious#8230; I have done enough now and will resist the temptation to write more. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Two things: I disagree with your assessment of just how many people avoid doing bad things solely due to fear of punishment. Perhaps its my naivety which makes me think most people apply a sense of ethics before considering the law. (And if enough people find their ethics to be in conflict with the law, does that not mean that the law should be reconsidered? A law serving the interests of a few to the detriment of the many is surely not just.) Secondly, while we don't live in a world in which everyone is perfectly honest, I think there are enough people who are mostly honest that to assume dishonesty everywhere is wrongheaded. That's what DRM and copy-protection are based on. Consider this: if 90% of people are honest and 10% not, using DRM will inconvenience the 90% while perhaps stopping some of the 10% (assuming it's uncrackable, which I don't accept to be true); not using DRM will keep the 90% happy, while the 10% copy as they like. So the question is whether the dent in that 10% is worth the inconvenience and lost goodwill of the 90%. I don't think it is. (Hey, record companies still charge a fee for estimated losses due to broken discs -- even on digital distribution contracts. That covers some dishonesty right there, and it's karma too!) -- smst smst's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=752 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Inguz Audio tips and initial impressions
parrydave;199240 Wrote: I'm just about to get a new PC partly so I can run InguzDRC. Would a 1.8Ghz core2duo E4300 be sufficient (with 2GB RAM)? thanks I have the E6300, which is the 2mb cache version of the conroe core. With inguz running I can still rip or burn discs, use photoshop, and browse the internet simultaneously w/o any drop in performance. The allendale core of the 4300 supports an 800mHz FSB, which is better for overclocking than conroe. According to these* benchmarks, the 4300 with increased core voltage will be faster than some of the extreme 4mb cache versions are stock. OTOH you could leave the voltage stock, and since it runs so cool eliminate some noisy fans in favor of larger slow moving fans. I put the Zalman on my processor and love it, even though it was more expensive than the motherboard! Anyway, you could run inguz on a busy workstation no problem. I saw the MSRP was 163 for the 4300, but I got an e6300 with motherboard combo for 149. You may want to shop the computer megastores for OEM versions, which don't come with a fancy box or processor fan like the retail versions.(newegg, fry's, or whatever you have in the u.k.). * http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-e4300.html PS- I'm using 512 megs of ram, 2 gig is overkill IMO. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29489 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
smst;199261 Wrote: Two things: I disagree with your assessment of just how many people avoid doing bad things solely due to fear of punishment. Perhaps its my naivety which makes me think most people apply a sense of ethics before considering the law. (And if enough people find their ethics to be in conflict with the law, does that not mean that the law should be reconsidered? A law serving the interests of a few to the detriment of the many is surely not just.) Actually people do often just fear punishment. I think it was Melbourne where years ago (1920s?) the police went on strike, and all hell broke loose - riots and everything. One would hope that their sense of ethics would stop them from doing illegal stuff, but that may be a naive view. smst;199261 Wrote: Secondly, while we don't live in a world in which everyone is perfectly honest, I think there are enough people who are mostly honest that to assume dishonesty everywhere is wrongheaded. That's what DRM and copy-protection are based on. Consider this: if 90% of people are honest and 10% not, using DRM will inconvenience the 90% while perhaps stopping some of the 10% (assuming it's uncrackable, which I don't accept to be true); not using DRM will keep the 90% happy, while the 10% copy as they like. So the question is whether the dent in that 10% is worth the inconvenience and lost goodwill of the 90%. I don't think it is. The 90/10 argument is a good one - why inconvenience the 90% to stop the 10%, when that 10% wouldn't buy your product anyway. You get no extra revenue from the 10%, and indeed may suffer when the 90% find it so inconvenient that they stop buying your product. Microsoft have (possibly inadvertently) exploited this: they generated their monopoly when Windows and Office had little or no copy protection, so was used by everyone. As soon as it gets adopted as a standard, enough people are honest and pay up to make you a fortune. If their products came out now, without the historical lock-up, everyone would use Linux and OpenOffice. willyhoops;199260 Wrote: No i am just real right wing ... I am a UK financial markets guy... Try this for a more balanced angle on 'wingedness': http://www.politicalcompass.org/index - I suspect you may be authoritarian and right wing; it's an interesting perspective. But please people don't tar all finance professionals with the same brush: I'm more left-wing libertarian than Gandhi :) Adam -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 is equivalent to which CD Players or DACs?
In my humble opinion, derived from owning/auditioning such items, digital sources from £70 DVD players to £400 dedicated CD players sound very similar. That being said, there's something about the SB3 that is much better than my old Arcam Alpha 7SE CD player. When the 7SE was auditioned against it's replacement, the Arcam CD73, the dealer was unable to spot any differences, and reckoned I'd need to spend £1,000 to significantly better it. In my opinion, the SB3 does just that - better soundstage, more detail, a cleaner sound in general. All subjective of course... -- gw43 gw43's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11327 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34233 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;199260 Wrote: I know the herd are all against DRM and I wanted to see if reasoned argument could make any headway against clearly the clearly incorrect tide. When I talk to people off the street who knows nothing about hard drive music they can hardly comprehend of life without DRM because it seems so silly. I can see some merit to your arguments, but I think there is a very fundamental failing: copyright breach can often be good for the copyright holder. I gave the Microsoft example earlier; the music example is that giving your mates copies often gets them to buy the music. A mate gave me a perfect copy of Sigur Ros's () album a few years ago; I liked it and bought the original, and now have all their CDs. Without that copyright breach, they would not have made any sales to me. To be more precise, your fundamental assumption is that the only asset held by the copyright holder is the right to license their product. However, there is more: the size of the customer base, and how much they are talked about, is also an asset. Piracy increases this asset, which has a subsequent improvement on the revenue stream of the copyright holder. DRM would restrict the value of this asset. Since it is not possible to value any of these assets reliably, then your implicit assumption that the 'right to license' asset is more valuable (or the only one of material value) is flawed. Adam -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;199255 Wrote: (emotion helps in debate with the public) But it has no place in an honest technical debate where both parties are genuinely interested in evaluating each other's position. If a bad argument is dressed up in emotional appeals and it wins the day (leading to new legislation, for example) it doesn't retroactively become a good argument by virtue of winning. The point of the debate is surely not to be the winner, but to arrive at the best solution. If you honestly want to convince people of the merit of your stance, stay objective, address others' objections and even prepare to accept opposing points of view (as the final ideal will surely be a compromise of positions). This, here, is not politics. -- smst smst's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=752 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
my political compass is Economic Left/Right: 0.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.49 which is bang in the middle and a bit surprising. i guess i am a mass of contradictions :-) you argumnet about 90% will pay and 10% will cheat would be ok if it was true. but the trouble is its not like that. even if we know whats right most of can't resist if we can get away with it. hence the amazement at people who had brief cases of cash into the police rather than keep them. also the low percentage of people who don;t sneak an extra bottle of duty free in thier bag is they know they can get away with it. every cd in the world all for free on file sharing web sites is far too much of a temptation. especially if you are 16. good as i am if my firnd has a cd i want ripped for my squeebox of course i will borrow rather than buy it. surely you are not going to tell me this is 10% behaviour. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying Transporters in the UK
Had a sudden passion to own a Transporter (I did order one from Progressive last July - never heard any more from them!) but it seems no one has one, either in the UK or the US. Current predicted date is 22 May (black only) and they are being re-badged/re-packaged as Logitech. I guess I will have got over the impulse within a couple of weeks. -- Heuer Heuer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2543 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34313 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;199283 Wrote: on top of these points it's obvious that even though music listening is going up music sales are going way down. so the 10% 90% argument is failing the record industry right now. So implies a cause and effect; do you think you have proved a logical link? There are a lot of reasons why music sales are reducing (although the UK is not doing badly); piracy (or some other 90/10 issue) may contribute but may not be the only reason. I think the record industry is merrily failing itself! Glad you liked the political compass :) Adam -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us ... condemning [young soldiers] to fight in what would be an un-winnable urban guerrilla war. It could only plunge that part of the world into even greater instability - George Bush Snr, 1998 adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Inguz Audio tips and initial impressions
Skunk, I grabbed a bargain system earlier today which will be used for various things (e.g. Photoshop,video editing etc). It'll also run slimserver, but not often at the same time. As Inguz DRC seems to be fairly processor hungry, I just wanted to make sure that the E4300 was up to the job. From your post, it sounds like I should be fine. Thanks Dave -- parrydave *modded squeezebox 3/arcam cd92t/arcam a85/arcam avr300 dynaudio contour 1.3mkii/dynaudio focus 200c/mk k-4/rel q150 pioneer pdp-507xd/sky+/harmony 525* parrydave's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6079 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29489 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;199283 Wrote: even if we know whats right, most of us can't actually resist if we can get away with it. This coincides with somthing you said earlier; that the only reason people don't commit crimes is fear of punishment. That is manifestly false, it goes against all mainstream theories in political science, legal theory, and against the available evidence. It's just not true - most people don't commit crimes because the law tends to coincide with the majority moral code, and most people behave morally most of the time. Look, suppose you had an old lady neighbor with lots of jewelry, and you knew she'd be away on a long trip, and you could get into her house with no danger of being caught. Would you rob her? Maybe you would, but I certainly wouldn't, because I think it's wrong. The fact that the law coincides with that view is not a coincidence, but it's irrelevant in that particular case. The problem comes when you have laws that prohibit behavior that the public doesn't see as clearly immoral. Jaywalking is an example, copying music is another. When those laws are unenforceable, as is the case here, many people will break them and result is damage to the legal structure by trivializing the law. So to stop music copying, you either need to convince most people that it's clearly morally wrong (which will be hard, because it isn't), or make the law enforceable (which will be very hard, as has been emphasized here). -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying Transporters in the UK
I am not up to date with the whole Logitech thing. Are they really rebadging it as a Logitech Transporter. Oh boy, that's a really bad marketing move with Audiophiles unfortunately. -- Andyoz Andyoz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4864 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34313 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
To stop music copying, you either need to convince most people that it's clearly morally wrong (which will be hard, because [i think] it isn't), or make the law enforceable yes yes yes... so since people can't be convinced it's wrong (or in my argument don't care) that leaves only enforcement (if it's the wishes of the artist who owns the material and does not feel like giving it to you for free). that's why i am desribing a drm that would be secure and which, i think, consumers would love. then we can all be happy - artists, consumers, business and the tax man. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anyone with a Bryston amp/dac and SB/Transporter - How does the Bryston dac sound ?
You will have to wait a little while from an answer from me at least. I have a Bryston B100 SST and just ordered the DAC option for it. I will use the equipment in my signature, pluss a Stereovox XV2 digital cable between the two. Otherwise, this gives you an idea of the sound from this amplifier : http://www.bryston.ca/pdfs/07/BrystonCX.pdf There are other tests at the Bryston site you can look at, everyone seems extremely pleased with the Bryston DAC, it gets lots of praise -- Anne Bryston B-100 SST, Squeezebox 3, Martin Logan Aeon I. Anne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34969 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Inguz Audio tips and initial impressions
parrydave;199297 Wrote: Skunk, I grabbed a bargain system earlier today which will be used for various things (e.g. Photoshop,video editing etc). It'll also run slimserver, but not often at the same time. As Inguz DRC seems to be fairly processor hungry, I just wanted to make sure that the E4300 was up to the job. From your post, it sounds like I should be fine. Thanks Dave I run Inguz on a 2-year-old AMD Athlon CPU which cost then about what that processor costs now, and there is hardly any performance drop - so it should be more than adequate. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29489 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Inguz Audio tips and initial impressions
Playing music with wide dynamic range (Elgar's Enigma by Boult), my Athlon 64 X2 4800+ averages below 10%, rarely peaking to 30%. I believe 1MB RAM is required for Vista; I have 2MB and normal usage is never less than 36%. -- vdorta Silent computer, Windows Vista Ultimate, dBpowerAMP Reference/FLAC, Slimserver 6.5.2, Inguz Room Correction, wireless SB2 (Bolder digital analog mods, Sonicap Platinum bypass caps, Bolder Deluxe Power Supply), Stello M200 monos, ACI Sapphire XLs + REL Storm III | Chaintech AV-710, JMT PPA headamp, AKG K601, Etymotics ER-4S vdorta's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29489 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
The unit is Selectable for 48 or 96 upsampling.. I upsample to 24/94 which my DAC will accept. The original poster had asked what's the best way to reduce jitter.. I assume that the poster wanted to reduced jitter to improve the sound.. hence the Monarchy DIP which in my system was a noticable improvement for not a lot of $$.. as always YMMV. mswlogo;199203 Wrote: Resampling to 44.1khz to 48khz is a bad idea. If it supported 88.2Khz is fine but unfortunately Slim Devices doesn't support 88.2Khz. Upsampling to 96khz is useless on SqueezeBox 3 since it would down sample back 48Khz. In fact people go to great lengths to get their computers to NOT resample 44.1Khz CD's to 48khz on their SPDIF capable sound cards. Sorry but this would do more harm than good, really bad idea. -- ErikM ErikM's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7576 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
ErikM;199309 Wrote: The unit is Selectable for 48 or 96 upsampling.. I upsample to 24/94 which my DAC will accept. The original poster had asked what's the best way to reduce jitter.. I assume that the poster wanted to reduced jitter to improve the sound.. hence the Monarchy DIP which in my system was a noticable improvement for not a lot of $$.. as always YMMV. It would be interesting to see what artifacts are being produced on the way from 44.1 to 96... -- 325xi 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;199302 Wrote: that's why i am desribing a drm that would be secure and which, i think, consumers would love. then we can all be happy - artists, consumers, business and the tax man. Consumers are never going to love something that prevents them from doing something they want to do. But in any case there are then two issues - is this possible, and if so is it a good idea? The discussion here should have taught you that, without some radical change in security technology, it would be very, very difficult. It's very difficult to design secure systems in which both the key and the message are in the possesion of the enemy. Credit card security doesn't get broken because the attacker does not have possesion of the key - it's held by the CC company. I send an encrypted message (my CC number) to them, they decode it, check it and send back approval. It's very difficult to intercept that message and decode my CC number without the key. The difference here is that the analogue of the CC company is the player, and so both the message and the key are under the control to the user. Then there's the question of is it a good idea, would it make our society better - that's a much harder question, but I think the answer is no. You've repeatedly asserted that without DRM music quality will decline. Don't you find it interesting that many people (classical music lovers) hold that by far the best music humans have ever created was all composed long before there was such a thing as a copyright on music? Or that the music another large group consider to be the best of the 20th century - jazz - arose mainly through small live performaces, and declined only once it became a mainstream, recorded, commodity? -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
A small comparison considering your political views... In the USA somebody voting for the Democratic party will probably seen as a lefty. The same person in the Netherlands will be seen as a rightwing person... Your view of everybody is bad and will break the law and illegally copy music just tells me you're rightwing as it is a rightwing way to view people that way. The reason why I bought my music is because I like it and want to pay the artist for his effort, but I don't want to pay over and over again just because my player changed somehow. I bought the license to play the music, so I want to be able to copy it to the new format I'm going to use WITHOUT having to pay them again. -- servies servies's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9496 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Inguz Audio tips and initial impressions
Thanks for response everyone. Helped put my mind at rest (I haven't understood CPU speeds since newer versions started having slower clocks!). I'm moving from a 5 year old 1.2Ghz Athlon that runs close to 100% when I use InguzDRC. Just about keeps going, but the SB3 buffer stays at zero for the first 20-30 seconds of each track. I was hoping for a drastic improvement, sounds like I should get one! -- parrydave *modded squeezebox 3/arcam cd92t/arcam a85/arcam avr300 dynaudio contour 1.3mkii/dynaudio focus 200c/mk k-4/rel q150 pioneer pdp-507xd/sky+/harmony 525* parrydave's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6079 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29489 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Consumers are never going to love something that prevents them from doing something they want to do That's why I want to add lots of extra value and make changing player a non issue so the consumer can get more than he looses. so sorry but yes he can love this if done just right. It's very difficult to design secure systems in which both the key and the message are in the possesion of the enemy Well what you actually mean is that the key at both ends is in possesion of the enemy. So the message must get encoded by the enemy server and get decoded in the tamper proof enemy hardware and come out analogue from there. it's not really that hard - just need this harware. Then there's the question of is it a good idea, would it make our society better - that's a much harder question Yes absolutely thats the most interesting bit of the argument. I am convinced it's the case and you have all my arguments. If people are real honest and think on it for a bit in a smart economist like way rather than as a little man, then I think they will see that a digital future without copy protection is a bleak future indeed. Thanks for getting what i am saying. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;199320 Wrote: If people are real honest and think on it for a bit in a smart economist like way rather than as a little man, then I think they will see that a digital future without copy protection is a bleak future indeed. Why do you embed so many straw man attacks in your argument little man? -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
DRM may be intended to prevent illegal use of copyright material, but it also prevents LEGAL use. DRM can't coexist with Fair Use. Since Fair Use is legal, I guess DRM has to be illegal. CD sales went UP when Napster was at its peak. Napster exposed people to music that they would never have heard otherwise. Napster created millions of lifelong fans out of people whose limited CD budgets would never have allowed them to buy, unheard, an offbeat genre or artist. And there is a strange disconnect in the music industry. They say that when you buy music, you don't really OWN it. What you are buying is a license to listen to that performance, and the physical product is merely a carrier to allow you access to the performance. OK, fine. I can accept that. So if I scratch the carrier, shouldn't I be able to get a replacement carrier without paying another license fee? I paid the license fee to listen to Led Zeppelin II when I was 12. And again when I was 16, when my LP wore out. Again when I was 22, when I wanted to hear the music in my car. Again when I was 30, when I wanted to hear it in my CD player. Again when I was 40, when the record industry offered a version that was closer to the original performance (a remaster). And I'll pay it again if it's ever offered in a 24-bit format. That would be the 6th time I'd have paid the license fee to listen to this music, and basically all that's changed is the carrier; the music is essentially the same (and some would argue that the original LP was the best-sounding carrier of all). -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
As many of you have pointed out, enforcing things through the fear of punishment rarely works in the long run. Humankind has been trying this since the dawn of civilization - and it always ends up creating a bigger mess than what it sets out to solve. Take the example of religions. Time and again cultures have created religions, and gods and all sorts of nasty consequences for doing supposedly bad or immoral things, and look where it has got us ... a complete mess!!! #8230; but I am digressing. I think there would be a lot less IP/copyright infringement if people clearly understood that stealing music and movies is really no different from stealing a car. Most of the people who engage in media piracy simply haven't realized that what they are doing is wrong. If they were to comprehend, then I am willing to bet that a significant amount of people would stop doing it. As for the RIAA MPAA, that is just a whole different rant. They continue to prove their stupidity and lack of understanding of their customers with alarming regularity. Today's stunt with Pandora is just another clear example of the insanity of organizations like the RIAA and MPAA. They have managed to shoot themselves in the foot by cutting off access to genuine users like me, who would have gone out and bought real physical CDs after discovering artists on services like Pandora. The record companies and movie studios keep harping about how they are protecting their artists rights and those of the users by not confusing them with too many choices. I am sure no one here believes that they are indeed acting in the artists' best interests - each time they negotiate new deals with the artists, they manage to give a smaller and smaller percentage to the artists. In fact with internet distributed materials, the artists get less than what they used to get with physical records and CDs. This is just ridiculous considering how much is saved in terms of distribution and inventory costs. Sometimes I feel like stealing the material from the internet and directly sending the artist a cheque. As for knowing what the customer wants, no one could be more clueless than the record companies. As is demonstrated with the Russian allofmp3.com fiasco - instead wasting energy fighting governments tooth and nail, and coercing users and credit card companies into withholding payments, they should have opened their own competitor to allofmp3, and beat the Russian site on value. I for one would have easily paid reasonable amounts for a site that legally offered everything the Russian site does. Lossless files should cost slightly less than what physical CDs cost (because you take out a whole bunch of expenses including physical media, distribution inventory) and Lossy files should be a little cheaper (because after all, you are offering an inferior product). What the record companies need is certainly not DRM. What they need to do is learn to listen to their customers. All of them need to read a bit about Toyota's Lean Thinking Principles, especially the concept of pull. The Womack Jones books are a good place to start. DRM itself is doomed to failure. We#8217;ve seen it time and again. In spite of all the security built into the new optical formats like HD-DVD and Blu-ray, hacks have appeared in record time. In fact today#8217;s news controversy on the Digg HD-DVD key issue only highlights the fact. As for the high-resolution audio formats (that all of us would have liked to embrace), the boneheaded decision to have two incompatible formats, SACD DVD-Audio probably contributed as much to their demise as their having draconian DRM, that restricted digital outputs. DRM on these formats is completely ludicrous, when unprotected redbook CDs with the same material were floating around. If you look at the bulk of pirated material on the internet, it is miserable 128kbps mp3 files #8211; not something that could have potentially been extracted from an SACD or DVD-A. However the high end users who would have liked to run the output through their fancy DACs and room correction DSPs were alienated. A complete disaster if you ask me. P.S#8230;.BTW right wing and smart don't go hand in hand :). It#8217;s like an oxymoron :). Right wingers can#8217;t handle complexity - everything has to be a simple right or wrong. #8216;You are either with us or against us#8217;. P.P.S.. FWIW, I fall about -5 on both the Economic Left/Right and Social Libertarian/Authoritarian Scales - close to the Dalai Lama :) -- Nikhil Nikhil's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=993 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Nikhil;199337 Wrote: I think there would be a lot less IP/copyright infringement if people clearly understood that stealing music and movies is really no different from stealing a car. Wrong - theft deprives the owner of the product; copyright infringement deprives the rights owner of the revenue. What might help people to value the right of the owner to his revenue is a little less excess from pop stars and record company moguls. The common perception is 'they're making a fortune, so why should I pay them more?'. I'm not condoning it, but I do understand it. Adam -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us ... condemning [young soldiers] to fight in what would be an un-winnable urban guerrilla war. It could only plunge that part of the world into even greater instability - George Bush Snr, 1998 adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Jitter reduction mechanisms in Transporter?
Sorry if this was discussed already, I did search, but found no clear answer... After Lavry DA10 got busted, I started to consider other options for my next DAC, and of course Transporter is on my list. I know its own internal jitter is very low, but what I want to know, specifically, is what jitter reduction mechanisms are employed in Transporter when it used as an outboard DAC? Has anyone looked into it? -- 325xi simaudio nova cdp simaudio moon i-5 revel performa m20 via acoustic zen matrix reference ii and acoustic zen satori (system is currently in dormant state... in storage) sb3 audioengine 5 -planned additions:... deq2496 lavry da-10 ...- 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Nikhil;199337 Wrote: I think there would be a lot less IP/copyright infringement if people clearly understood that stealing music and movies is really no different from stealing a car. Most of the people who engage in media piracy simply haven't realized that what they are doing is wrong. If they were to comprehend, then I am willing to bet that a significant amount of people would stop doing it. This argument is really misguided. I'll go ahead and once more explain that if I steal a car, the owner no longer has it. If I make a copy of a song without paying, the copyright owner still has it, the person who I got the copy from still has it, etc. Copying music may be illegal, but it isn't a crime. It's not a misdemeanor or a felony, it is a CIVIL MATTER, a matter of litigation like a breach of contract. And I contend that 99% of those who copy music know exactly what they're doing and why. They are breaching an implied contract with an industry who breaches contracts all the time. The music industry has for decades cheated artists. They have for decades engaged in payola to get certain music played on the radio. They have for decades illegally colluded on price fixing. Their tactics for gathering evidence against computer owners may not be legal under current telecom law. They may not even legally own the rights to digital distribution. Many artist contracts were written decades before anybody heard of the internet. In the Napster trial, when it was clear the judge would compel the record companies to produce the artist contracts and show where these distribution rights are spelled out, the record companies quickly moved for an out-of-court settlement. -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
mswlogo;199203 Wrote: Resampling to 44.1khz to 48khz is a bad idea. If it supported 88.2Khz is fine but unfortunately Slim Devices doesn't support 88.2Khz. Upsampling to 96khz is useless on SqueezeBox 3 since it would down sample back 48Khz. In fact people go to great lengths to get their computers to NOT resample 44.1Khz CD's to 48khz on their SPDIF capable sound cards. Sorry but this would do more harm than good, really bad idea. Many TacT RCS/SB3 users report improvements using Adobe Audition to upsample files to 16/48. -- jhm731 jhm731's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Economic Left/Right: -6.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.62This is about what I expected. :) On 5/3/07, adamslim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: smst;199261 Wrote: Two things: I disagree with your assessment of just how many people avoid doing bad things solely due to fear of punishment. Perhaps its my naivety which makes me think most people apply a sense of ethics before considering the law. (And if enough people find their ethics to be in conflict with the law, does that not mean that the law should be reconsidered? A law serving the interests of a few to the detriment of the many is surely not just.) Actually people do often just fear punishment. I think it was Melbourne where years ago (1920s?) the police went on strike, and all hell broke loose - riots and everything. One would hope that their sense of ethics would stop them from doing illegal stuff, but that may be a naive view. smst;199261 Wrote: Secondly, while we don't live in a world in which everyone is perfectly honest, I think there are enough people who are mostly honest that to assume dishonesty everywhere is wrongheaded. That's what DRM and copy-protection are based on. Consider this: if 90% of people are honest and 10% not, using DRM will inconvenience the 90% while perhaps stopping some of the 10% (assuming it's uncrackable, which I don't accept to be true); not using DRM will keep the 90% happy, while the 10% copy as they like. So the question is whether the dent in that 10% is worth the inconvenience and lost goodwill of the 90%. I don't think it is. The 90/10 argument is a good one - why inconvenience the 90% to stop the 10%, when that 10% wouldn't buy your product anyway. You get no extra revenue from the 10%, and indeed may suffer when the 90% find it so inconvenient that they stop buying your product. Microsoft have (possibly inadvertently) exploited this: they generated their monopoly when Windows and Office had little or no copy protection, so was used by everyone. As soon as it gets adopted as a standard, enough people are honest and pay up to make you a fortune. If their products came out now, without the historical lock-up, everyone would use Linux and OpenOffice. willyhoops;199260 Wrote: No i am just real right wing ... I am a UK financial markets guy... Try this for a more balanced angle on 'wingedness': http://www.politicalcompass.org/index - I suspect you may be authoritarian and right wing; it's an interesting perspective. But please people don't tar all finance professionals with the same brush: I'm more left-wing libertarian than Gandhi :) Adam -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' ( http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists ) adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Pale Blue Ego;199348 Wrote: This argument is really misguided. I'll go ahead and once more explain that if I steal a car, the owner no longer has it. If I make a copy of a song without paying, the copyright owner still has it, the person who I got the copy from still has it, etc. Thats an extremely simplistic and incorrect way of thinking about it. If I spend 10 years of my life developing a therapeutic molecule or drug, only to have someone reverse engineer it, manufacture it, and make money off it, while I received nothing (even if the original recipe is still in my hands) - it most certainly is no different than stealing, and should be treated as a crime. And similarly it is no different for artists and their creations. -- Nikhil Nikhil's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=993 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
jhm731;199349 Wrote: Many TacT RCS/SB3 users report improvements using Adobe Audition to upsample files to 16/48. Perceived improvement isn't necessarily a real one. However, there was a thread recently, with comparison of SRC software, and there were just 2 or 3 products that did conversion acceptably or better. The rest were producing huge amount of artifacts. Adobe was among the good ones. So, even though upsampling from 44.1 to 48 doesn't make much sense, Adobe might do it well enough so the inevitable damage would not be audible. -- 325xi 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Nikhil;199353 Wrote: Thats an extremely simplistic and incorrect way of thinking about it. If I spend 10 years of my life developing a therapeutic molecule or drug, only to have someone reverse engineer it, manufacture it, and make money off it, while I received nothing (even if the original recipe is still in my hands) - it most certainly is no different than stealing, and should be treated as a crime. And similarly it is no different for artists and their creations. It is quite different from stealing. Copyright is supposed to be a BALANCE, an incentive to invent things that eventually end up owned by all. To this end, certain limited rights are granted BY THE PUBLIC to the inventor for a limited amount of time. And this is another example of how the IP industry breaches their contracts. Whenever Mickey Mouse is due to enter the public domain, a few well-placed donations to key Congresscritters ensures that Mickey AND ALL OTHER WORKS of intellectual property, even those no longer maintained or offered for sale, have their copyrights extended for decades more. The public domain, which OWNS these works, never actually gets them. -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Nikhil;199353 Wrote: Thats an extremely simplistic and incorrect way of thinking about it. If I spend 10 years of my life developing a therapeutic molecule or drug, only to have someone reverse engineer it, manufacture it, and make money off it, while I received nothing (even if the original recipe is still in my hands) - it most certainly is no different than stealing, and should be treated as a crime. And similarly it is no different for artists and their creations. *Copyright infringment, or patent infringement, is not stealing*. Not legally, not morally, not logically - only on internet fora is it sometimes incorrectly equated with theft. Copyright is not ownership, it's the legal right to control the making of copies of a particular work. The only harm the copyright holder sustains in a violation is the loss of some potential future profit, which is very, very different from having a physical possesion stolen from you. That doesn't mean copyright infringement is right - just that the analogy to theft is simply the wrong one. What's at issue is how to maximze the benefit to the public good. If there were no copyright there would be little incentive to create art and invent things, but if there is too much (like an eternal term, or life of the author + 70 years) it doesn't create more of an incentive for profit, but only hurts the public by restricting access. Therefore (by the intermediate value theorem :-) ) there should be an ideal finite period for copyrights which maximized the public good. We should be arguing about what that term is, not making silly statements about how this is theft. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
325xi;199355 Wrote: ...So, even though upsampling from 44.1 to 48 doesn't make much sense, Adobe might do it well enough so the inevitable damage would not be audible. The TacT RCS uses an AD1896 ASRC to convert all digital input to 96kHz for internal processing. It does an audibly worse job of converting 44.1 kHz input to 96kHz than it does converting 48kHz input to 96kHz (that is, non-integral conversions are worse than integral conversions - the same point I think you've been trying to make). Adobe Audition is sonically superior to the AD1896 at converting 44.1kHz to either 48kHz or 96kHz. The TacT guys convert to 48kHz since that's the most the SB3 supports (and it saves disk space). Regards, Kim -- krochat -- SB3 (+linear) - Big Ben - TacT RCS 2.2X - 2xS2150 - Vandersteen 3a Signature + TacT W210 krochat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6579 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Indeed, and the current forever term for copyright is asinine. It means that there really is no such thing as folk music any more. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;199320 Wrote: Yes absolutely thats the most interesting bit of the argument. I am convinced it's the case and you have all my arguments. If people are real honest and think on it for a bit in a smart economist like way rather than as a little man, then I think they will see that a digital future without copy protection is a bleak future indeed. I didn't see any arguments, actually - just assertions, and not very detailed ones at that. Exactly why do you think eliminating DRM on music will make the future bleak? If you think it will destroy the music scene, I suggest you stop by your local pub and listen to some live music, or go to the symphony, or listen to some Bach or Beethoven or Mozart... -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
All creative works are built upon earlier creative works. Nothing is created in a vacuum. Suppose a pianist, every time he played the piano, had to pay a royalty to the person who invented the black keys, or the minor chord, or the system of music notation. Suppose every author had to pay somebody for the right to use the letter t, or the comma. Hey, somebody INVENTED the comma and should be paid for it for eternity. We can't allow others to steal this inventor's work! -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
And there are many business models that could work to compensate creators while allowing their creations to be legally copied. Some artists are doing this now (Jane Siberry is one). She will give you copies of her music and allow you to decide how much compensation is fair (if any), after you have downloaded and listened to it. Interestingly, the suggest price is $1 for people who wish to pay, but the average price paid is about $1.30 - people pay MORE than the suggested price. That tends to kill the idea that people are basically dishonest and if music is free, nobody will ever pay. A lot of music could be released free, with the file containing a link to a tip jar, a PayPal account where you can make a donation to show your appreciation and to encourage the artist to create more works. In this model, you would want the music copied and shared as much as possible. If only 1% of people who hear the song decide to donate $1, then getting millions of people to hear the song can earn the artist some serious money. Lots of struggling bands could use this model to establish a fanbase and to find out if there's a market for their talents. The free market will compensate the good artists and ignore the bad ones. Another method is to get paid BEFORE releasing a work. A sort of patronage where somebody pays for the creation, and everyone benefits. This might work for established artists like U2. They could say, We've got a great new album ready to go, and we'll release it free to the world as soon as $5 million is deposited in this PayPal account. We'll be giving $1 million of that money to fight AIDS in Africa. And anyone who donates more than $100 gets a limited-edition, autographed CD copy, and 2000 of these CD copies will contain front row tickets to one of our shows. I think they would get the $5 million very quickly. All of these methods use creative ways to engage fans and establish emotional as well as financial links to the performer. They empower the fans, not the corporations. And, they pay the artists directly instead of letting middlemen bleed off 90% of the revenue. -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Pale Blue Ego;199372 Wrote: Another method is to get paid BEFORE releasing a work. A sort of patronage where somebody pays for the creation, and everyone benefits. This might work for established artists like U2. Marillion took this path after going independent. I believe they've done it for more than one album, but the one I'm aware of is Marbles: fans paid upfront for the album, and that money paid for it to be recorded. Those who paid early received a limited edition copy (which contained all those people's names). Obviously this particular path is only going to work for established artists; for those artists there is indeed evidence that it does work. -- smst smst's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=752 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops wrote: Well what you actually mean is that the key at both ends is in possesion of the enemy. So the message must get encoded by the enemy server and get decoded in the tamper proof enemy hardware and come out analogue from there. it's not really that hard - just need this harware. Alan Turing showed that hardware and software are identical. Tamper-resistant hardware does exist in the mil-spec space, but it is not cheap, small, or easy to use. You have shown that you do not understand the basic security topics that you claim are solutions. No more feeding this troll. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;199320 Wrote: That's why I want to add lots of extra value and make changing player a non issue so the consumer can get more than he looses. so sorry but yes he can love this if done just right. rubbish It will never work. I don't want to be bound to a format that some idiot at Sony/EMI/Warner thinks is good for me. I'll decide that for myself. Yes the message must get encoded by the enemy server and get decoded in the tamper proof enemy hardware and come out analogue from there. the consumer never gets access to the pure unencrypted message. it's not really that hard - just need this hardware (described in article). Yes absolutely thats the most interesting bit of the argument. I am convinced it's the case and you have all my arguments. If people are real honest and think on it for a bit in a smart economist like way rather than as a little man, then I think they will see that a digital future without copy protection is a bleak future indeed. If economists and businessman would be really honest and wouldn't always think with their greedy claws for the short term they would see that a digital future WITH only DRM is NO future at all. I'm a technologist and I can tell you: every security invented will be broken in the future, if it isn't, it's probably not interesting enough to break it. I want to decide for myself how I listen to the music that I bought. I don't want an idiot at Sony/EMI/Warner/Whatever to decide that for me. I know what's best for me myself. You wouldn't even be here if your idea was already working. You would never have been able to put your music on a computerdisc and listen to it with your Squeezebox. -- servies servies's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9496 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Inguz Audio tips and initial impressions
parrydave;199297 Wrote: Skunk, I grabbed a bargain system earlier today which will be used for various things (e.g. Photoshop,video editing etc). Mine will run Inguz on just one of the cores, E.g. here inguz is linked to core 0 and not allowed to run on core 1 (on the right). In the screenshot you can see where the processor on the left runs inguz and premiere both at first, but then halfway through where it drops way down I switched to inguz only (you set the 'affinity' to core 0 or 1 in task manager). So core 1 gets pegged when it's affiliated with premiere by itself, but does not effect inguz at all. Very handy!! The end of the graph for core 0 is what inguz takes to run, basically 1/4 of one core. +---+ |Filename: c2d.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2759| +---+ -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29489 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
What's at issue is how to maximze the benefit to the public good. If there were no copyright there would be less incentive to create art and invent things, but if there is too much (like an eternal term, or life of the author + 70 years) it doesn't create [much] more of an incentive [to create], but only hurts the public by restricting access. Therefore there should be an ideal finite period for copyrights which maximizes the public good. Yes I certainly agree with that sensible observation. Personally I would happily strip copyright five years after the artists death or 20 years after the production. Who care about their relatives staying rich forever or someone living off something they got lucky with 30 years ago (star wars?). So old films and music and books and designs and inventions I would strip of copyright. However the world would not work if copyright lost meaning. I don't think there are many people who seriously think that should be the case (if it was, China would mass produce everything anyone else in the world invented, and pay them nothing for it, and the US economy would collapse overnight), and just because we like free music doesn't mean it should be an exception. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Willy, Your argument is flawed, because it is based on the presumption that protecting the 'business' of the big labels is a desirable outcome. Explain to us how 'perfect' DRM helps small independent labels and artists (who are already learning how to support themselves in the digital universe - see emusic.com for example), and maybe we'll pause for thought. As long as your argument continues to be based on the interests and business models of the big labels, very few here are going to care. So the world won't have the handful of megabucks superstars acting like idiots for the tabloids - boohoo. Artists with integrity will still produce product (both live and recorded), and will find a way to make a living doing it. So, to make sure you didn't miss the question: Q: How does 'perfect' DRM help small independent labels and artists? -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/ nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
325xi;199355 Wrote: Perceived improvement isn't necessarily a real one. I guess the same could be said for the reported improvements of the Transporter over the SB3. -- jhm731 jhm731's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;199390 Wrote: Personally I would happily strip copyright five years after the artists death or 20 years after the production. Well that would mean that the Jimi Hendrix example wouldn't need DRM then... :) -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us ... condemning [young soldiers] to fight in what would be an un-winnable urban guerrilla war. It could only plunge that part of the world into even greater instability - George Bush Snr, 1998 adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Q: How does 'perfect' DRM help small independent labels and artists? If you had been reading the posts and stories you would know that's it the smaller lables and artists that are getting killed currently. The big names are dumping the little guys and concentrating only on mega names that can sell t-shirts and massive live events and dvds. It's going to end up with a few big pop names and a few people posting thier home recorded music on myspace. Personally I am gutted for the classical industry. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
krochat;199365 Wrote: The TacT RCS uses an AD1896 ASRC to convert all digital input to 96kHz for internal processing. It does an audibly worse job of converting 44.1 kHz input to 96kHz than it does converting 48kHz input to 96kHz (that is, non-integral conversions are worse than integral conversions - the same point I think you've been trying to make). Adobe Audition is sonically superior to the AD1896 at converting 44.1kHz to either 48kHz or 96kHz. The TacT guys convert to 48kHz since that's the most the SB3 supports (and it saves disk space). Regards, Kim This I have to try...so do you start with a 16/44.1 wav, upsample it to 48k with audition and re-flac it? -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;199404 Wrote: If you had been reading the posts and stories you would know that's it the smaller lables and artists that are getting killed currently. ... Where on earth did you get that idea? The independents for the most part are doing better than ever. They have managed to use the Internet to build listeners, giving them artists on Myspace and linking them all together so people can explore and find more music. Most of them -hate- DRM: since the Indies don't play the payola games that the Big4 play to get songs on the radio, someone sharing a file is the best way they have to get people to hear their bands. Yes, they know that some people are not paying for their music: but they also know that many more others will discover it and purchase it, making for a net gain. See http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=13739Page=1pagePos=2 and many many more. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
One benefit, for the public, of limited copyright periods would be that modern works offered for sale would have to compete with the free material in the public domain. A reasonable term, like the 20 years suggested above, would have modern recordings going up against music from the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s which would be IP-free. It would force current artists to truly innovate and provide high-quality new material. -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
You seem to be operating in a strange space where there is actually some connection between upholding copyright and DRM. This is nonsense - only digitised music and films (and computer games) use DRM. The other 99.9% of copyrighted things don't. Therefore, clearly copyright can be - and always has been -controlled without DRM...ipso facto there is no need for DRM. If I buy a book I don't expect to be granted a licence to read it, not share it with my family, lend it to my friends, leave it on a bus etc. Why should music or films be ANY different? BTW I NEVER copy something except for backup/using on other media purposes. -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
snarlydwarf;199413 Wrote: ... Where on earth did you get that idea? The independents for the most part are doing better than ever. They have managed to use the Internet to build listeners, giving them artists on Myspace and linking them all together so people can explore and find more music. Most of them -hate- DRM: since the Indies don't play the payola games that the Big4 play to get songs on the radio, someone sharing a file is the best way they have to get people to hear their bands. Yes, they know that some people are not paying for their music: but they also know that many more others will discover it and purchase it, making for a net gain. See http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=13739Page=1pagePos=2 and many many more. Thanks snarlydwarf - I've gotta run so don't have time to rant further! -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/ nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
willyhoops;199404 Wrote: It's going to end up with a few big pop names and a few people posting thier home recorded music on myspace. This is largely a result of the current imbalance in the music industry. Everything is tilted toward the big labels and mega-stars and we all suffer. If Britney Spears had to compete strictly on the quality of her music, her stuff wouldn't sell 1000 copies. It's media hype, TV appearances, commercials, radio payola, etc that sells her stuff. She needs all the costuming, glitz, choreography, lighting, vocal effects, and 20 other dancers on stage with her to distract people from noticing that it's a very ordinary voice singing a completely empty lyric. -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
Phil Leigh;199407 Wrote: This I have to try...so do you start with a 16/44.1 wav, upsample it to 48k with audition and re-flac it? And would Cool Edit be as good? (isn't that where Audition came from?) You don't even have to de/re flac - there's a FLAC plugin for Audition/Cool Edit - http://www.vuplayer.com/audition.php Yes, Cool Edit is as good as Audition as far as I know. I've used both with good results. I don't know if the Audition function is exactly the same as the Cool Edit function or not, but in any case it's not worth buying Audition if you already have CoolEdit (well, except for the Batch Conversion function that Audition has). Regards, Kim -- krochat -- SB3 (+linear) - Big Ben - TacT RCS 2.2X - 2xS2150 - Vandersteen 3a Signature + TacT W210 krochat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6579 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Interesting that I went from making several posts in this thread, to reading a well-written essay on this very subject that was just posted on Techdirt: The Grand Unified Theory On The Economics Of Free http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070503/012939.shtml -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
hey that quote looks familiar... http://www.slimdevices.com/dev_overview.html? -- EFP EFP's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Records now doing FLAC
All the hassle over wma files is gone - 24/96 FLACs: http://www.linnrecords.com/catalogue.aspx?format=studio Sorry if it gets expensive... ;) Adam -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us ... condemning [young soldiers] to fight in what would be an un-winnable urban guerrilla war. It could only plunge that part of the world into even greater instability - George Bush Snr, 1998 adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34985 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
Phil Leigh;199407 Wrote: This I have to try...so do you start with a 16/44.1 wav, upsample it to 48k with audition and re-flac it? And would Cool Edit be as good? (isn't that where Audition came from?) You can do it all in one shot with Dbpoweramp Flac to FLac and retain tags and use the DSP Plugins to make the change. I don't know how well it does compared to other tools though. But resampling from 44.1 to 48 is IMHO useless. -- mswlogo mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Records now doing FLAC
adamslim;199434 Wrote: All the hassle over wma files is gone - 24/96 FLACs: http://www.linnrecords.com/catalogue.aspx?format=studio Sorry if it gets expensive... ;) They charge nearly double for 24bit encodings? What's the justification - the cost of bandwidth? Because it certainly doesn't cost them a penny more in additional labor. I wonder if Linn Records is anything like the US's Mapleshade. Impeccably recorded 2nd and 3rd rate musicians. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34985 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Pale Blue Ego wrote: willyhoops;199404 Wrote: It's going to end up with a few big pop names and a few people posting thier home recorded music on myspace. This is largely a result of the current imbalance in the music industry. Everything is tilted toward the big labels and mega-stars and we all suffer. If Britney Spears had to compete strictly on the quality of her music, her stuff wouldn't sell 1000 copies. It's media hype, TV appearances, commercials, radio payola, etc that sells her stuff. She needs all the costuming, glitz, choreography, lighting, vocal effects, and 20 other dancers on stage with her to distract people from noticing that it's a very ordinary voice singing a completely empty lyric. Nice arse though. :) ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Pale Blue Ego wrote: If Britney Spears had to compete strictly on the quality of her music, her stuff wouldn't sell 1000 copies. [snip] from noticing that it's a very ordinary voice singing a completely empty lyric. Wow, this is the first time I've ever heard anyone say that she is a singer. I don't know if the phrase was invented for her, but pop-tart does not bring comparisons with Streisand, Marni Nixon, or Beverly Sills. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox
Pat Farrell;199457 Wrote: Pale Blue Ego wrote: If Britney Spears had to compete strictly on the quality of her music, her stuff wouldn't sell 1000 copies. [snip] from noticing that it's a very ordinary voice singing a completely empty lyric. Wow, this is the first time I've ever heard anyone say that she is a singer. Gets even worse. If you ripped her CD and put it into your music library, SB or Transporter would show her as an 'artist'. Now, that's a blow. -- slimkid The sound stage will open up, bass will tighten and the imaging will improve. DVD performance will also increase substantially. slimkid's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8881 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
