Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
TimT wrote: > That's my question: what does $300 to $500 for interconnects buy Mr. A? > If "higher-priced cables = better sound" is audio-voodoo, why should > John A spend $500? Why not spend $50? Let me correct a slight problem with your statement: "higher-priced cables = better sound" is not really where the voodoo lies but rather it is more complicated than that simple equation. To understand where today's misunderstanding about cables comes from one needs to go back to the origin of the high end cable industry. Back in the early days of after market audio cables, these after market cables were completing against the standard run of the mill freebie cables that came bundled with just about every piece of audio equipment. Super cheap and very poorly made, these freebie cables more often than not were the cause of many problems people experienced with their audio systems as the cables failed, whether by not making a good and solid connection between equipment or because they simply started to fall apart or because these did not minimum requirements for the equipment involved. To add to the problem the replacement cables available in the local electronics store were often no better than the freebie cables. By introducing replacement cables which offered better connections and solid construction and which met the minimum requirements for the equipment involved the problems caused by those cheap freebie cables were solved. It was less about how much better one system sounded and more about how a poorly functioning part of one's system had been improved. Where things started to go off the rails was when some very clever marketing person realized that if people were willing to actually buy better functioning (not sounding) cables perhaps they could be made to buy even more expensive cables in the hope of further improving the sound of their audio system. And so the very profitable high end cable business came to be. The fallacy in high end cables is that while it may be true that replacing cheap, poorly made and improperly functioning freebie cables with well made and properly functioning cables will make an audio system function (and therefore "sound") better, replacing these well made and properly functioning cables with even more expensive cables does nothing to 1) improve the functioning of an audio system and 2) does nothing to improve the sound of an audio system. Think of cable as piping in a water supply system. In an audio system each piece of equipment represents a variable load but with a known upper limit, much like a sink in that one can open the faucet just a little or all the way. When opened all the way a maximum amount of water will flow but that maximum amount is determined by the faucet and not the piping supplying the faucet. Similar to a power amp - the amount of current needed by the power amp is determined by the amp itself and not by the power cord. Now if the pipe supplying the faucet is undersized then the faucet will not be able to produce the maximum flow. But if the pipe supplying the faucet is correctly sized then the faucet will able to produce the maximum flow. Making the pipe supplying the faucet bigger than the correctly sized piping will not enable the faucet to produce more than it's inherent maximum flow. The same is true for audio equipment (i.e. electrical flow) in that once the correct cable size is reached any larger cable will not improve the system. In objectivist terms this means that once a properly sized and functioning cable is provided that's all that is needed. Unfortunately when there is money to be made there is also plenty of dishonesty, such as when some fancy USB cable is compared to USB cable that does not meet the minimum required specifications, or when a $1000 cable is claimed to sound better than a $50 cable - purely subjective and total nonsense. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
TimT wrote: > That's my question: what does $300 to $500 for interconnects buy Mr. A? > If "higher-priced cables = better sound" is audio-voodoo, why should > John A spend $500? Why not spend $50? Well for one thing, aesthetics. $50 doesn't go as far with cables as it used to, and if you get your system cost that low, you are talking about some pretty utilitarian-looking stuff. If you bought $15K/pair speakers more than what you may want to admit of that went into the furniture aspect, so the visual impression your cables make on visiting firemen is probably part of your goals. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
You can argue a bit for fit and finish and build Quality , i would not go much further than bluejeancables these days . How much cabling was it how long speaker cables if passive and are we talking 5.1 with a bunch of hdmi cables thrown in ? I would,not even consider aftermarket high end power cords nowadays that's a real scam the ones delivered with your stuff are probably safer and less of fire hazard and fits better , the stiffness and weight of some aftermarket cords are probably not good considering the fit into the inlet of your amp etc . I have DIY some power cords what you can introduce are twisted pairs and screening but that's it possible some cheap ferrit clamps ( you can buy those cheap in bulk to ). Bewildering enough the cable brand flogged here have some "entry level " power cords without the only features you can have :) they made up some of thier own instead . But I see the marketing potential so I like the 30$ argument too for this reason , with a fairly complex rig like mine with over 14 power cords 4 hdmi cables 12 spdiff cables 1 toslink 8 Ethernet cables 1 analog Rca ( for the sub ) and some of you have a bunch more stuff than I do :) if I can be compelled to buy a little better than the free stuff included it's a good sale with high margins for very little engineering skills ( you buy already engineered cables in bulk ,dress it up a bit fancy and ad several 1000% markup ). I do like the DIY aproach with pro or installation cable . If you are without soldering skills or crimping tools ( you should not solder spdiff or video cable ) blue jean cable does it good it's basically DIY on order with well selected engineere cables from a real cable brand like Belden etc . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
ralphpnj wrote: > There are many brands of well made and very reasonably priced cables > available. Mr. Audiophile can safely buy any of these cables for his > system will no loss in fidelity. His total amount for all of the > necessary wires and cables in the system need not be more than $300 to > $500, depending on the length of the cables and wires. And that would > really be only of interconnects and speaker wire - no fancy USB cables > or power cords - both of which are completely fine with the stock > cables. > > Added bonus: with all the money Mr. Audiophile saves he can buy > something very nice for Mrs. Audiophile and the WAF of his new audio > system will go way, way up! That's my question: what does $300 to $500 for interconnects buy Mr. A? If "higher-priced cables = better sound" is audio-voodoo, why should John A spend $500? Why not spend $50? TimT's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22971 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
TimT wrote: > Perhaps. Consider this: John Audiophile has just dropped $15,000 on a > pair of speakers, $7500 on amplification and playback. What > interconnects does he buy? $15 for a pair of 10-foot speaker cables? Or > does he spend $300 on a "name brand" pair? Maybe $300 won't buy him > better sound; but almost certainly, John A thinks, it won't buy him > worse sound. No question that John can afford to spend more. What would > you do? What does the "rational audiophile" do? There are many brands of well made and very reasonably priced cables available. Mr. Audiophile can safely buy any of these cables for his system will no loss in fidelity. His total amount for all of the necessary wires and cables in the system need not be more than $300 to $500, depending on the length of the cables and wires. And that would really be only of interconnects and speaker wire - no fancy USB cables or power cords - both of which are completely fine with the stock cables. Added bonus: with all the money Mr. Audiophile saves he can buy something very nice for Mrs. Audiophile and the WAF of his new audio system will go way, way up! Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
TimT wrote: > Perhaps. Consider this: John Audiophile has just dropped $15,000 on a > pair of speakers, $7500 on amplification and playback. What > interconnects does he buy? $15 for a pair of 10-foot speaker cables? Or > does he spend $300 on a "name brand" pair? Maybe $300 won't buy him > better sound; but almost certainly, John A thinks, it won't buy him > worse sound. No question that John can afford to spend more. What would > you do? What does the "rational audiophile" do?I'll answer i.r.o. what I did > and have stayed with having dropped $30,000 in 2004 money on a pair of active speakers and preamplifier. I bought a run of Belden 1800F and as many Neutrik connectors as I needed to make up interconnects from DAC to preamp and preamp to speakers, had them made up and soldered using silver solder. Over the years I've had many audiophiles through my place, many with exotic cable in hand to prove I was missing something. After listening they've all left disappointed. SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI' (http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC SCA2' (http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/) | 'ATC SCM100ASLT' (http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/) *'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger' (http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html): 'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most Linux distributions. audiomuze's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33613 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
audiomuze wrote: > Take cables ... a fool and their money are soon parted. Perhaps. Consider this: John Audiophile has just dropped $15,000 on a pair of speakers, $7500 on amplification and playback. What interconnects does he buy? $15 for a pair of 10-foot speaker cables? Or does he spend $300 on a "name brand" pair? Maybe $300 won't buy him better sound; but almost certainly, John A thinks, it won't buy him worse sound. No question that John can afford to spend more. What would you do? What does the "rational audiophile" do? TimT's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22971 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
Take cables ... a fool and their money are soon parted. SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI' (http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC SCA2' (http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/) | 'ATC SCM100ASLT' (http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/) *'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger' (http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html): 'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most Linux distributions. audiomuze's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33613 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
audiomuze wrote: > agreed, and it's surpassed only by stupidity. As a reformed audiophile I have to either disagree or take the fifth ( https://www.google.com/#newwindow=1=off=take+the+fifth ). Often times the answer to something is hiding in plain sight and all one needs to do is connect the dots in the proper order. Back in high school and college I learned how to read equipment specifications and then learned how to really read specs and began to see what the manufacturer was trying to hide. My growing distrust of mass market audio moved me towards high end audio, albeit at the "most bang for the buck" end of things, and once again I had to relearn how to specs, which for the most part are badly misused in high end audio, in fact way more than in mass market audio. And then along came computer based digital audio and audio equipment, especially front ends, became more about proper/pure fidelity and less about euphonic coloration. And as I slowly started connecting the dots, I came to distrust much of what is written in the high end audio media. I still understand the need for something better than mass market audio but with today's rapidly rising prices it's more important than ever to find audio equipment that offers great value for the money. Such as the Squeezebox Touch, the best $300 I ever spent on a piece of audio equipment. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
Wombat wrote: > I see some audio engineers really can measure or demonstrate technical > differences. These things are often far, far from being audible but are > taken as proof. > The bad thing is that exactly this creates audiophils that are > absolutely rational to other aspects of live but when it comes to audio > their imagination gets tricked only because they believe in it. > > > @arnyk > Nice to see you and i hope you are fine. Very few posts of yours lately. I've said it many times before that measurements and high end audio work two ways: 1) measurements are given as proof that A must sound better than B. For example A has measurable (but still not audible) jitter and B has even less (lower) jitter. Or A is a standard resolution file (24 bit and 44.1kHz) and B is a high resolution file (24bit and 96kHz) 2) measurements cannot show why A sounds so good. This argument is ALWAYS used for ALL tube equipment and ALL vinyl playback equipment. Remember when money is involved, and money is always the primary driver in all things high end audio, hypocrisy has no bounds. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
ralphpnj wrote: > ...in all things high end audio, hypocrisy has no bounds.agreed, and it's > surpassed only by stupidity. SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI' (http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC SCA2' (http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/) | 'ATC SCM100ASLT' (http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/) *'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger' (http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html): 'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most Linux distributions. audiomuze's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33613 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
Mnyb wrote: > I think the audiophile culture actually traps some reasonable people now > and then . Its not hard to see why 99% of the so called "information" > the audiophile can enjoy in magazines and online is of very questinable > quality . I never seen any other hobby where almost all "knowledge" is > totally bogus and every magazine or forum or blog feeds you 99% nonsense > and lies . If you then does not have any enginnering background or > otherwise experienced in critical thinking ? I may not be easy to see > trough this. I can name another group where 99% of the "information" and"knowledge" is just nonsense and lies - The US Republican party. Just a tad bit more important than high end audio, although the Republicans do follow almost the exact playbook as high end audio. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
ralphpnj wrote: > I can name another group where 99% of the "information" and"knowledge" > is just nonsense and lies - The US Republican party. Just a tad bit more > important than high end audio, although the Republicans do follow almost > the exact playbook as high end audio. Not going to touch the politics with a 3-metre pole, but I think what we are seeing in high end audio, politics, health fads etc. is actually rejection of science and escapism - into "my opinion is just as valid as that of all those fancy PhDs". "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
ralphpnj wrote: > No I really do mean audiophiles and NOT audiophools since I don't > believe that audiophiles are fools. I believe that the vast majority of > audiophiles have been fooled into believing so much nonsense by a very > complex system that is working very hard to separate them from their > money. The way you phrase it implies that the conspiracy is being perpetrated by organisations and individuals who have full knowledge that they are lying and it is all nonsense. But I think that the vast majority of high-end audio manufacturers actually believe their own propaganda. Which in a way is even more shocking: the vendors of items of engineering don't actually understand the engineering they are delivering. Keep in mind Hanlon's razor: "never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity"? Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
cliveb wrote: > The way you phrase it implies that the conspiracy is being perpetrated > by organisations and individuals who have full knowledge that they are > lying and it is all nonsense. > > But I think that the vast majority of high-end audio manufacturers > actually believe their own propaganda. > Which in a way is even more shocking: the vendors of items of > engineering don't actually understand the engineering they are > delivering. > > Keep in mind Hanlon's razor: "never ascribe to malice that which can be > explained by stupidity"? Current understandings of perception and memory suggest that initially these people may have been well-tutored in the basics, and knew them very well. However, years of success with we might call "Alternative wisdom" has literally changed their minds. The name John Atkinson somehow comes to mind. ;-) arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
Julf wrote: > Not going to touch the politics with a 3-metre pole, but I think what we > are seeing in high end audio, politics, health fads etc. is actually > rejection of science and escapism - into "my opinion is just as valid as > that of all those fancy PhDs". I agree and therefore apologize for my lapse into politics. However I don't think of it as a rejection of science but rather a rejection of any science which gets in the way of profits, which is why Al Gore used the label "An Inconvenient Truth". cliveb wrote: > The way you phrase it implies that the conspiracy is being perpetrated > by organisations and individuals who have full knowledge that they are > lying and it is all nonsense. > > But I think that the vast majority of high-end audio manufacturers > actually believe their own propaganda. > Which in a way is even more shocking: the vendors of items of > engineering don't actually understand the engineering they are > delivering. > > Keep in mind Hanlon's razor: "never ascribe to malice that which can be > explained by stupidity"? I believe that most high end audio engineers and designers fully understand the science of audio but they are only a small part of the team that make up a high end audio manufacturer. It's the marketing people and others who are directing these engineers into the world of voodoo science. For example I believe that the engineering team which developed Audioquest's Jitterbug know full well that it's a complete waste of money but that money is paying their salaries. arnyk wrote: > Current understandings of perception and memory suggest that initially > these people may have been well-tutored in the basics, and knew them > very well. However, years of success with we might call "Alternative > wisdom" has literally changed their minds. The name John Atkinson > somehow comes to mind. ;-) Even hinting that John Atkinson (or for that matter Robert Harley) has or ever had any understanding of the basics of audio engineering is completely laughable and an insult to all engineers, not just audio engineers. They are both plain and simply shills for their advertisers. Giving them even the slightest hint of respectability is exactly how they are able to succeed. I much prefer to call them what they really are - people who lie for money. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
I see some audio engineers really can measure or demonstrate technical differences. These things are often far, far from being audible but are taken as proof. The bad thing is that exactly this creates audiophils that are absolutely rational to other aspects of live but when it comes to audio their imagination gets tricked only because they believe in it. @arnyk Nice to see you and i hope you are fine. Very few posts of yours lately. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
far as I'm concerned people that fall victim to that nonsense are audiophools, seemingly incapable of exercising critical thinking. SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI' (http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC SCA2' (http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/) | 'ATC SCM100ASLT' (http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/) *'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger' (http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html): 'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most Linux distributions. audiomuze's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33613 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
audiomuze wrote: > far as I'm concerned people that fall victim to that nonsense are > audiophools, seemingly incapable of exercising critical thinking. Not true. They are definitely very critical against any criticism. Confirmation and group bias are rather strong influences. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
I think the audiophile culture actually traps some reasonable people now and then . Its not hard to see why 99% of the so called "information" the audiophile can enjoy in magazines and online is of very questinable quality . I never seen any other hobby where almost all "knowledge" is totally bogus and every magazine or forum or blog feeds you 99% nonsense and lies . If you then does not have any enginnering background or otherwise experienced in critical thinking ? I may not be easy to see trough this. Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
garym wrote: > 'AudioQuest's Casablanca moment' > (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?105173-AudioQuest-s-Casablanca-moment) > I just get a warm feeling from the thread title itself. Sadly, most of > the millennials I interact with wouldn't get the meaning. And they also don't understand why some people are still trying to find where Jimmy Hoffa is buried. I guess that makes us (well at least me) old. Speaking of old, it seems that ripping audiophiles off never gets old. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
ralphpnj wrote: > > > Speaking of old, it seems that ripping audiophiles off never gets old. Sadly true. *Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet) *Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite *Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER *Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop *Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
ralphpnj wrote: > Speaking of old, it seems that ripping audiophiles off never gets old.I think > you mean audiophools. SqueezeWand | 'Vivere DAC MKI' (http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC SCA2' (http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/) | 'ATC SCM100ASLT' (http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/) *'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger' (http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html): 'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most Linux distributions. audiomuze's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33613 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
Julf wrote: > Unfortunately facts tend to be useless against faith. I think that it's more like facts just get in the way of making money. audiomuze wrote: > I think you mean audiophools. No I really do mean audiophiles and NOT audiophools since I don't believe that audiophiles are fools. I believe that the vast majority of audiophiles have been fooled into believing so much nonsense by a very complex system that is working very hard to separate them from their money. Both the manufacturers and their handmaidens in the media have developed a very good method to turn unscientific nonsense and pure opinion into well respected "facts". The objective science side of audio playback and measurement has been discarded in favor of the subjective opinion side of audio listening, thus allowing for unscientific nonsense to become facts. For example, the whole anti-jitter craze was helped along by some "respected" audio guru claiming to clearly hear jitter, which is well known to be impossible by the human auditory system (ears and brains). Now instead of the audio press simply stating this and therefore discrediting or a least disregarding the opinion of this audio guru, what happened was just the opposite - this unscientific nonsense became an audiophile fact - humans can hear jitter. And once this bogus "fact" was established the whole anti-jitter craze was born and lots of well intending audiophiles has been happily separated from their money. In the US the automobile industry uses JD Powers awards in much the same way, i.e. the manufacturers pay JD Powers for an award and then they advertise how they "earned" a JD Powers award. Since most consumers don't realize that the JD Powers awards were purchased and not earned, the system works quite well. In the world of high end audio the manufacturer makes some outrageous claim, such as the Audioquest Jitterbug device really works, and the audio press loudly declares the device to be a sonic marvel and even gives it all kinds of awards. These awards then show up in the manufacturer's advertisements. Again this little system works quite well. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
'AudioQuest's Casablanca moment' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?105173-AudioQuest-s-Casablanca-moment) I just get a warm feeling from the thread title itself. Sadly, most of the millennials I interact with wouldn't get the meaning. *Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet) *Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9 > Squeezelite *Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER *Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng8 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop *Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
Unfortunately facts tend to be useless against faith. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest's Casablanca moment
At the end of last month AudioQuest had Casablanca moment as true nature of their ongoing business model was exposed for the fraud that it has always been. The whole tail of woe and deceit can be explored by following these links: And they're off: http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5540 Bill Low responses: http://www.stereophile.com/content/open-letter-bill-low-audioquest#MYE8MY5eSKRgJrIa.97 (the real fun is in the comments section and please note my comment under the name "jazzfan" which is on page 4 of the comments) RealhdD-audio fires back: http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5561 And then brings in reinforcements: http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5565 A note to Bill Low: when you play with fire you often get burned. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105173 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
