[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
You might want to consider the LavryDAC10. Many people prefer it over the Benchmark. They are both so good it is probably a matter of preference so a listen to both could be worthwhile. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
It depends heavily on what you want to use it for too, what your preferences are. Maybe the Porsche is faster around the race track, and if that's your definition of better, it wins. But maybe in the value-for-money category the Mazda wins... Anyway, I like the Pontiac Solstice better than the mx5, qua looks for sure... :-) On 1/12/07, P Floding [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is unreasonable to demand that manufacturers can prove (substantiate) subjective claims. Just like no-one can really say why a Porsche is better than an MX-5 (if we pretend they have the same 0-60 times and top speed for the sake of the argument). P Floding ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
First, I totally agree that the analog stage of the SB3 currently is not at a hey, buddies, listen to this... level. But, through a good DAC it's close. I wonder if you might be giving up too easily on the Transporter. I've had mine for a month now, and the more I listen to it, the more I like it (esp. for its upper end). I wouldn't call it super 'bright', but I would say it is has a medium-brightness and accuracy that doesn't tire me out (I listen to mostly classical music). Alas, my big system is in storage (BP25DA, 4BSST WP7s), so I can't yet offer you a side-by-side comparison of the Byrston vs Transporter DACs. However, through my Headroom Max Desktop DAC/amp and AKG701s (albeit, an imperfect comparison), I can tell you that I really, really enjoy listening to the Transporter DAC, certainly as much as I enjoyed listening to the Bryston DAC. Before my Transporter arrived, my opinion of Slimdevices (from owning an SB2 SB3) was Wow, those guys really understand how to put together a digital transport. After a month of TP listening, I now feel that they also know a thing or two about how to build a great DAC. It is at the hey-buddies-listen-to-this-level. I recently realized that regardless of how great a digital transport it is, the Transporter's DAC is worthy of being evaluated against the best of the standalone ones. If you can get a 30 day trial on it, I'd give it a chance. If it doesn't work for you, return it and you'll be one month closer to the release of the Bryston DAC... -- muski muski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3670 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
The OP may not be the slightest interested, but here is what I just did to restore treble quality. After bulding a new power supply (almost identical to my earlier one), the sound was very laid back. Very plesant, but cymbals were extremely laid back. Solution? I applied SST to the new power connector (the one which plugs in to the SB3). The old one had SST, but not the new one. If the sound can change so drastically depending on something like this I guess a captive power chord is the next thing up for experimentation. It also begs questions about local decoupling in the SB3, and more generally what the heck is happening... Hopefully this info can help someone other than the OP. Caveat: I haven't tried this with anything other than my battery power supply. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
What about a Byrston DAC? There are two options. The first is the integrated BP26DA (I have the BP25DA, which I like very much). The second is that Bryston has announced that they will be selling a separate DAC this spring (to complement the CD transport they showed at CES last week). See: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=34554.0 and http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=35178.0 -- muski muski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3670 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
My thoughts exactly. I have a Bryston BP25MC preamp. At this point, upon further online perusal, I am currently sold on the Benchmark DAC1. I am, however, pondering waiting for a Bryston outboard DAC, based on the wonderful reviews of their preamps or integrated amps with their integrated DAC. Sadly, I'd guess a 6 month wait, while they concentrate on their new (waste of time) CD player (see my post at the AudioCircle Bryston/PMC owners board recently -- same moniker). Technically, I can wait. Based on my post, and other online reviews, I don't think the TP would be my cup of tea. I still need to add more hard drive capacity to my PC to rip my CD collection, so I can occupy myself with this for several months (years...). What is driving me nuts currently is that the SB3 currently is not at a hey, buddies, listen to this... level in my system. Unlike my current vinyl rig, or my old Sony ES (5 - 10 disc) changers. (Yes, I said CD changers in an audiophile forum). My current condundrum is get the Benchmark DAC or wait for the Bryston. I don't need the pre-amp or headphone features of the Benchmark, because I need to use the Bryston BP25MC preamp for my vinyl rig. If I didn't respect Bryston gear so much, I would order the Benchmark ASAP. I see that the Benchmark has configurable balanced outs (0 - 30 db), which the BP25MC accepts. Sheesh. An itchy trigger finger may win out. I should probably contact James Tanner at Bryston to see what the configurations and pricing might be on an ouboard DAC. If I can use their DAC with my current BP25MC MPS-1 power supply, then I might wait. If I need to upgrade to their new (pricey) power supply like they use in their BP26/DA/MC preamp, well, then Benchmark here I come. FYI/apologies to the forum: I was not trying to offend anyone, really. My speakers are active studio monitors equivalent of ATC/PMC high end studio designs, plus my hearing preferences bias toward upper frequency clarity and speed.(See MKProfessional.com for more info on my active monitors and subwoofer). I don't know it all, I just know what I like. -- desertrat58 desertrat58's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9431 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
desertrat58;169489 Wrote: I asked about the upper frequency clarity and response of the TP vs. an outboard DAC + the SB3. Please don't get pissed at me. Just address my post. Thank you again, dlite and Eric Carroll, for your informative responses. I look forward to more info from people that understand what I ask. Well I'm glad I took the time to participate in your discussion, I offered an opinion about the DAC1 which was specific to your post - admittedly I didn't go on about the intrinsic qualities of said device but all the same you mentioned DAC1 and I offered an opinion. And I found streaming raw WAV did liven/brighten up the sound somewhat, obviously it's my opinion only and you're welcome to try the same or not but you don't need to be so damned rude about it. Oh, sorry, I just don't understand :| -- Rangdo Gronda Gronda Rangdo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5238 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
desertrat58;169489 Wrote: Eric Carroll and dlite's responses address my post, 7 people have no clue. A power supply is a mod because I can't buy one, I have to make one, or have a carpet-bagger tweaker-modder make one. A cable and worrying about its connections is not a mod, it is a tweak, and you won't hear the effects of a tweak if equipment is properly designed and implemented. If Slim Devices felt a better power supply made a huge difference, they would have included a better one with the SB3. If cables made a real difference, equipment manufacturers would hard-wire umbilical cords to their equipment. I did not ask about mods and tweaks, and there is nothing wrong with my system - it is not too bright or too dull. It is close to $20K worth of audiophile and pro audio equipment, and the room is treated and set-up properly. As I said, my current vinyl rig does and former CD rigs did sound wonderful. If you disagree with me, that is fine, but leave this post alone. I am not personally attacking your audio biases, opinions or phobias. I have asked very specific questions with my very specific biases clearly elucidated. I asked about the upper frequency clarity and response of the TP vs. an outboard DAC + the SB3. Please don't get pissed at me. Just address my post. Thank you again, dlite and Eric Carroll, for your informative responses. I look forward to more info from people that understand what I ask. Oh, you know it all then? Why do you have to ask if you already know everything? Please don't waste my time again. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
desertrat58;169489 Wrote: If Slim Devices felt a better power supply made a huge difference, they would have included a better one with the SB3. Surely if Slim Devices felt the SB3 needed the sound brightening, they would have done it? So either they know everything ... or they don't. And if they don't, then there might just be room for someone to do better, I reckon. -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
desertrat58;169489 Wrote: Eric Carroll and dlite's responses address my post, 7 people have no clue. A power supply is a mod because I can't buy one, I have to make one, or have a carpet-bagger tweaker-modder make one. A cable and worrying about its connections is not a mod, it is a tweak, and you won't hear the effects of a tweak if equipment is properly designed and implemented. If Slim Devices felt a better power supply made a huge difference, they would have included a better one with the SB3. If cables made a real difference, equipment manufacturers would hard-wire umbilical cords to their equipment. I did not ask about mods and tweaks, and there is nothing wrong with my system - it is not too bright or too dull. It is close to $20K worth of audiophile and pro audio equipment, and the room is treated and set-up properly. As I said, my current vinyl rig does and former CD rigs did sound wonderful. If you disagree with me, that is fine, but leave this post alone. I am not personally attacking your audio biases, opinions or phobias. I have asked very specific questions with my very specific biases clearly elucidated. I asked about the upper frequency clarity and response of the TP vs. an outboard DAC + the SB3. Please don't get pissed at me. Just address my post. Thank you again, dlite and Eric Carroll, for your informative responses. I look forward to more info from people that understand what I ask. You can watch ebay for elpac power supplies. They're cheap enough that it might be worth trying (I bought a few at $5/each plus $9 shipping for the lot-- $8 each is cheap enough that I didn't mind trying). I didn't hear any difference in my system but of course YMMV. Otherwise, I pretty much agree with you. If you want to change the tonal balance of your system, you can try using inguzeq (http://www.inguzaudio.com/). In addition to doing room correction, it has a tone control which you can set up as anything from a 2 to a 9 band tone control. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
desertrat58;169489 Wrote: Eric Carroll and dlite's responses address my post, 7 people have no clue. A power supply is a mod because I can't buy one, I have to make one, or have a carpet-bagger tweaker-modder make one. A cable and worrying about its connections is not a mod, it is a tweak, and you won't hear the effects of a tweak if equipment is properly designed and implemented. If Slim Devices felt a better power supply made a huge difference, they would have included a better one with the SB3. If cables made a real difference, equipment manufacturers would hard-wire umbilical cords to their equipment. I did not ask about mods and tweaks, and there is nothing wrong with my system - it is not too bright or too dull. It is close to $20K worth of audiophile and pro audio equipment, and the room is treated and set-up properly. As I said, my current vinyl rig does and former CD rigs did sound wonderful. If you disagree with me, that is fine, but leave this post alone. I am not personally attacking your audio biases, opinions or phobias. I have asked very specific questions with my very specific biases clearly elucidated. I asked about the upper frequency clarity and response of the TP vs. an outboard DAC + the SB3. Please don't get pissed at me. Just address my post. Thank you again, dlite and Eric Carroll, for your informative responses. I look forward to more info from people that understand what I ask. I can't believe anyone's considering continuing a conversation with this guy. Adam -- adamslim SB3 into Derek Shek d2, Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost cables http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
Can't you beg/borrow/steal a DAC1 to listen in your system before the two week sb trial is up? The proof of the pudding is in the eating you know. 37 people have expounded upon the difference between their Transporter and DAC here on the forums, and probably many others on audiocircle etc., try a search. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
adamslim;169577 Wrote: I can't believe anyone's considering continuing a conversation with this guy. Adam I wholeheartedly agree with you, Adam. This guy is a (insert description of your choice, mine is unprintable). To ask for advice and then respond so rudely is behavior I wouldn't want to reward. Unless of course we flood him with tweak and mod advice which he so obviously needs for his system :-) -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
Actually, I think we should all recommend a Benchmark DAC1 to him ;-) -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
What's wrong with the Lavry? :-) On 1/12/07, Patrick Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I think we should all recommend a Benchmark DAC1 to him ;-) -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
Sorry Jan, it's just my sense of humour. I'm not that keen on the DAC1 ... -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
I will give the Benchmark and Lavry a try. I may still try the TP to see what I think, becaue I do think it is an elegant design, and is very versatile. I was just trying to avoid the usual online forum result where those who don't address the posted question end up hijacking the thread into oblivion. Like happened here. Sorry. -- desertrat58 desertrat58's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9431 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
desertrat58 wrote: I will give the Benchmark and Lavry a try. I may still try the TP to see what I think, becaue I do think it is an elegant design, and is very versatile. I had a Benchmark feed by an SB, and now have a Transporter, had it for a relatively short time. When I got the Benchmark, it was wow, that is better When I got the Transporter, there was no wow it is fine, but not clearly better than the Benchmark. It is different, so far I can't find the words to describe what is different. The Transporter is about the same size, sits on the same shelf that used to hold the SB and DAC-1. The Transporter looks cooler, but from across the room, not that much as to make a difference. The transporter runs a lot more efficiently, the Benchmark generated a lot of heat, they all run hot. Can't comment on the Larvy, or any of the Larvy, I considered them, the Benchmark was a little cheaper and I fell in love with it on first listen. So far, I have not decided which I like more, either the Transporter or the Benchmark has to be sold, I really can't justify keeping both. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
Pat Farrell;169639 Wrote: desertrat58 wrote:[color=blue] So far, I have not decided which I like more, either the Transporter or the Benchmark has to be sold, I really can't justify keeping both. Pat, For me, the DAC1/Tp decision was primarily features: - I needed the better dual 802.11g antennae because the Tp is in a shielded corner and the SB kept cutting out (i.e. signal reception is better) - two outputs - two screens - better WAF in the living room (no all black SB3 at the time available) -- Eric Carroll Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
Eric Carroll wrote: So far, I have not decided which I like more, either the Transporter or the Benchmark has to be sold, I really can't justify keeping both. - I needed the better dual 802.11g antennae because the Tp is in a shielded corner and the SB kept cutting out (i.e. signal reception is better) - two outputs - two screens - better WAF in the living room (no all black SB3 at the time available) I started with a SB1, pre-G. and am all FLAC. The SB1s didn't do native FLAC so it really didn't work over wireless. So for years, my main squeezebox has been wired with Cat5 to a 100mb switch. So two 11g didn't make the selection list. Two screens looks cool, but didn't justify the cost to me. The outputs are not interesting, even the SB1 had both analog and digital, I only used one. My Classe is really an integrated amp, so it has six imputs, the only one I use is from either the Benchmark or the Transporter. I put it all behind a smoked glass screen, so the WAF was even the same. So it comes down to sound quality, and so far, there is no clear winner. YMMV, of course. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
tomjtx;169590 Wrote: I wholeheartedly agree with you, Adam. This guy is a (insert description of your choice, mine is unprintable). To ask for advice and then respond so rudely is behavior I wouldn't want to reward. Without in any way wishing to defend such behaviour, I would observe, in the mildest possible way, that he is not entirely alone, and that at least the desert rat has had the good grace (and pragmatic wisdom) to apologise. ;^) -- geraint smith geraint smith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=625 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
Pat, My bedroom stereo gets the SB3 using analog because its good enough for the speakers and amp I have there (bookshelf BW Matrix 802). I am not at my critical listening best first thing in the morning. It is a glorified alarm clock. My HT gets an SB3 using digital out because my next gen HT pre/pro will have the same DACs the Tp has so its the same as a Tp. The livingroom stereo gets the Tp as it is going right into the Bryston 3B SST in analog and I want the quality DAC. Best of all worlds! FLAC music everywhere! PERSONALLY SPEAKING, I can't see how a SB3/good DAC and a Tp could be different in sound quality. But that position inflames those who claim to hear the difference. At that point I want to know if they did ABX testing using volume levels within .1dB, if the room changed, if the speakers are the same, etc etc... but that's just me. If you are wired (no .11g), don't need two analog outputs on the Tp and like the DAC1 then I agree its a coin toss. It comes down to resale value at that point: if you have both which one can you sell for more? If I hadn't just bought the Tp I would have take the DAC1 off your hands for you! Sorry, c'est la vie. -- Eric Carroll Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
geraint smith;169676 Wrote: Without in any way wishing to defend such behaviour, I would observe, in the mildest possible way, that he is not entirely alone, and that at least the desert rat has had the good grace (and pragmatic wisdom) to apologise. ;^) G, My post was written before the (qualified) apology of the desert rat. I, of course, have never been guilty of a breach of etiquette :-) -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
Eric Carroll wrote: ... the same DACs the Tp has so its the same as a Tp. *cough*. I rather think not. It may be better or worse but it will almost certainly be different, unless both the circuit and layout are very similar to the Transporter and the SB3-DAC external link performs in a very similar manner to the interface internal to the Transporter. PERSONALLY SPEAKING, I can't see how a SB3/good DAC and a Tp could be different in sound quality. PERSONALLY SPEAKING, then you're probably in the wrong forum! :) R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
Robin Bowes;169706 Wrote: PERSONALLY SPEAKING, I can't see how a SB3/good DAC and a Tp could be different in sound quality. PERSONALLY SPEAKING, then you're probably in the wrong forum! :) R. There are a quite number of us on this forum that share something close to that view, actually. Being an audiophile means you care about good sound quality, not that you believe there is a major difference between modern DACs. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
Robin Bowes;169706 Wrote: Eric Carroll wrote: ... the same DACs the Tp has so its the same as a Tp. *cough*. I rather think not. It may be better or worse but it will almost certainly be different, unless both the circuit and layout are very similar to the Transporter and the SB3-DAC external link performs in a very similar manner to the interface internal to the Transporter. Robin, Just so I am being clear. I have no interest inciting a subjectivist vs. objectivist flame war here. I respect your opinion and in fact agree with the comment you made about circuit layout, etc. Circuit layout impacts noise and noise is a major consideration and, most importantly is measurable. What I perhaps should have said is that two DACs that test out equally well (low noise, flat response, low harmonics) won't have a color. Specifically if the Tp tests out the same as a SB3/DAC1 then it is my opinion that coloration is a subjectively induced issue and would fail a double blind ABX test. If however such a test were to show a statistically significant ability to pick the right one, then, the measurement was not the right measurement and we would have something to talk about. While I am not an analog circuit expert or an EE, everything I know in the digital domain (and that is a lot) tells me this statement is true. However, I have not done a double blind study to confirm it nor do I yet know of any. I will happily accept any data based correction. This is my opinion and I hope others will respect that fact, too. -- Eric Carroll Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
opaqueice wrote: Robin Bowes;169706 Wrote: PERSONALLY SPEAKING, I can't see how a SB3/good DAC and a Tp could be different in sound quality. PERSONALLY SPEAKING, then you're probably in the wrong forum! :) R. There are a quite number of us on this forum that share something close to that view, actually. Being an audiophile means you care about good sound quality, not that you believe there is a major difference between modern DACs. There is a world of difference between a belief that there is no major difference between modern DACs and refusing to accept that DAC A could be different to DAC B simply because you can't understand how that could be possible. There is a tendency among some folk to dismiss anything that they can't explain - this problem is made worse when the same folk acquire an above-average knowledge in the subject area in question. I think the old maxim holds true here: A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
Eric Carroll wrote: I have no interest inciting a subjectivist vs. objectivist flame war here. I respect your opinion and in fact agree with the comment you made about circuit layout, etc. Circuit layout impacts noise and noise is a major consideration and, most importantly is measurable. I am neither - I'm staunchly on the fence! What I perhaps should have said is that two DACs that test out equally well (low noise, flat response, low harmonics) won't have a color. Specifically if the Tp tests out the same as a SB3/DAC1 then it is my opinion that coloration is a subjectively induced issue and would fail a double blind ABX test. If however such a test were to show a statistically significant ability to pick the right one, then, the measurement was not the right measurement and we would have something to talk about. While I am not an analog circuit expert or an EE, everything I know in the digital domain (and that is a lot) tells me this statement is true. However, I have not done a double blind study to confirm it nor do I yet know of any. I will happily accept any data based correction. This is my opinion and I hope others will respect that fact, too. Eric, I don't disagree with you, so don't take this as an argument - rather a discussion of the issues. I agree that, in theory, audible differences should be measurable (that's my objective side) but I also believe that it is entirely possible for the human ear to detect differences that are difficult, if not impossible to measure (subjectivist). I also believe that the brain is easily fooled, and might be tricked into hearing differences that aren't there. It's not the digital domain that is the problem - once the audio data is digital it's fairly bomb-proof. It's when you come to convert from the digital information to an analogue signal that the problems start, and that's without getting into how the audio might be managed in the analogue domain. So, as you see - a pretty mixed up viewpoint with no strong opinion either way. All that really means is that I can argue with everybody!! :) R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
Robin Bowes;169729 Wrote: opaqueice wrote:[color=blue] There is a world of difference between a belief that there is no major difference between modern DACs and refusing to accept that DAC A could be different to DAC B simply because you can't understand how that could be possible. Robin, First, I didn't say that, or didn't mean to say that - see my clarifing post. They could be different. My point is that if the test the same on the bench, and they ABX the same, they are the same regardless of subjective impressions otherwise since statistically some people will hear a difference even when none exists. Second, I agree with you. Placebo/suggestion is a powerful effect, and it impacts me just as much as anyone. It impacts me as well as anyone. Ok? Peace? -- Eric Carroll Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
Eric Carroll wrote: Robin Bowes;169729 Wrote: opaqueice wrote:[color=blue] There is a world of difference between a belief that there is no major difference between modern DACs and refusing to accept that DAC A could be different to DAC B simply because you can't understand how that could be possible. Robin, First, I didn't say that, or didn't mean to say that - see my clarifing post. They could be different. My point is that if the test the same on the bench, and they ABX the same, they are the same regardless of subjective impressions otherwise since statistically some people will hear a difference even when none exists. Agreed, but that's not the same as I can't see how a SB3/good DAC and a Tp could be different in sound quality However, your clarification makes think I understand your PoV. I genuinely don't have any deeply-rooted opinions about all this. I find (most) of the discussion interesting, edifying, and (mostly) enjoyable. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
How is this for being on the fence? If one can reliably differentiate A from B in a blind test, then he can legitimately state a subjective preference. If one cannot reliably differentiate A from B in a blind test, then he cannot legitimately state a subjective preference. Our ability to objectively measure is limited by the technology available, and perhaps ultimately limited by physical laws (see Heisenberg). If one can legitimately state a subjective preference, yet one cannot explain the difference through an objective measure, this is a limitation of our ability to measure, not an invalidation of the legitimate subjective preference. This appears logically sound to me, but if anyone wishes to enlighten me I am open to it. :) -- jeffmeh jeffmeh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
jeffmeh wrote: How is this for being on the fence? If one can reliably differentiate A from B in a blind test, then he can legitimately state a subjective preference. If one cannot reliably differentiate A from B in a blind test, then he cannot legitimately state a subjective preference. Our ability to objectively measure is limited by the technology available, and perhaps ultimately limited by physical laws (see Heisenberg). If one can legitimately state a subjective preference, yet one cannot explain the difference through an objective measure, this is a limitation of our ability to measure, not an invalidation of the legitimate subjective preference. This appears logically sound to me, but if anyone wishes to enlighten me I am open to it. :) That summarises my position pretty accurately. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
That seems like a pretty objectivist position to me :). The idea that all objectivists think that if you can't measure it you can't hear it is a canard. The position I, and I think others, take is: if you can't measure it, you better be able to show that it can be distinguished in blind tests, in order to make sure it's doing _something_. So I guess I agree with you. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
totoro;169805 Wrote: That seems like a pretty objectivist position to me :). The idea that all objectivists think that if you can't measure it you can't hear it is a canard. The position I, and I think others, take is: if you can't measure it, you better be able to show that it can be distinguished in blind tests, in order to make sure it's doing _something_. So I guess I agree with you. Depends on what you want to do with the information (or opinon). If I think my hifi sounds better after a change, that is good enough for me. Sometimes you have to be able to trust your ears to get anywhere in this hobby (and even professionally, I might add). I certainly don't intend to tell anyone how it is, so I reserve the right to express subjective opinions. (My personal non-proven truths, or beliefs, if you wish..) -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
totoro;169805 Wrote: That seems like a pretty objectivist position to me :). The idea that all objectivists think that if you can't measure it you can't hear it is a canard. The position I, and I think others, take is: if you can't measure it, you better be able to show that it can be distinguished in blind tests, in order to make sure it's doing _something_. So I guess I agree with you. Ah, you caught me. What does an audio objectivist who does not concede that there are limits to our ability to objectively measure have in common with an audio subjectivist who does not concede that stated preferences remain unsubstantiated without reliable A/B differentiation? Each is a poor logician. :) -- jeffmeh jeffmeh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
opaqueice wrote: totoro;169805 Wrote: That seems like a pretty objectivist position to me :). The idea that all objectivists think that if you can't measure it you can't hear it is a canard. Did you read his post? It was quite carefully worded - he precisely *did not* say that. I thought so too, but I'm tired and couldn't think straight about it, so I put some music on. :) R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
Robin Bowes;169816 Wrote: opaqueice wrote: totoro;169805 Wrote: That seems like a pretty objectivist position to me :). The idea that all objectivists think that if you can't measure it you can't hear it is a canard. Did you read his post? It was quite carefully worded - he precisely *did not* say that. I thought so too, but I'm tired and couldn't think straight about it, so I put some music on. :) R. Good idea, I am going to put on Ojos de Brujo Flamenco hiphop.just got another CD (3 now) they are all very interesting. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
I sincerely apologise desertrat58 for not reading your original post thoroughly before posting. I will, in future, try to be more diligent before responding to your posts. regards -- Greg Erskine Greg Erskine's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7403 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
P Floding;169808 Wrote: Depends on what you want to do with the information (or opinon). If I think my hifi sounds better after a change, that is good enough for me. Sometimes you have to be able to trust your ears to get anywhere in this hobby (and even professionally, I might add). I certainly don't intend to tell anyone how it is, so I reserve the right to express subjective opinions. (My personal non-proven truths, or beliefs, if you wish..) And you have every right to express those subjective opinions. If it sounds better to you, ultimately, that is what serves you best. On the other hand, if one is selling something with a significant price tag, some buyers may want more than it sounds better to me. lol -- jeffmeh jeffmeh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
opaqueice;169811 Wrote: Did you read his post? It was quite carefully worded - he precisely *did not* say that. If his position is regarded as pretty objectivist we have a serious problem. It's simply common sense, and so if subjectivists don't accept it, well... fill in the blank. Um, I was making a joke, man. Note the use of the :) .. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
jeffmeh;169826 Wrote: And you have every right to express those subjective opinions. If it sounds better to you, ultimately, that is what serves you best. On the other hand, if one is selling something with a significant price tag, some buyers may want more than it sounds better to me. lol This is where it gets tricky! It is unreasonable to demand that manufacturers can prove (substantiate) subjective claims. Just like no-one can really say why a Porsche is better than an MX-5 (if we pretend they have the same 0-60 times and top speed for the sake of the argument). I much prefer subjective marketing BS to fantasy technical explanations with no connection to reality. There is a huge industry of people telling others what, mostly subjectively, is the best! When it comes to hi-fi my pet theory (a truth for me) is that measured performance is so unreliable because measurement is seldom done in a real context. If you can actually extract the on paper performance from a component you should get good sound, but I believe many components fail to deliver when put in real systems. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
totoro;169830 Wrote: Yep, I agree with you. I think our earlier spat had more to do with us both being very irritable at the time. You bet! It's all forgotten now anyway. When it comes to placebo it is very, very real! But experience and hundreds of hours of evaluating and also enjoying hifi does make you better at hearing things. When it comes to music I think it touches deeper than analysis can easily deal with, so I believe in long term listening to assess the emotional impact. Long-term to even out effects due to one's own mood. I feel A/B can't deal properly with sound reproduction since it seems to shut of part of the process that has to do with actually enjoying music! Also, the ears adapt dynamically to sound characteristics, so qualitative A/B is even more difficult. But this is just my personal opinion. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
totoro;169831 Wrote: Um, I was making a joke, man. Note the use of the :) The guy who made the post understood the joke, I'm a little surprised you didn't. .. Hmm, looks like *I* didn't read *your* post very carefully - sorry, my bad! Sometimes I think the internet is one massive miscommunication device. Then I realize I can't even remember how I fed myself before the web existed, and I change my mind... -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
P Floding;169832 Wrote: This is where it gets tricky! It is unreasonable to demand that manufacturers can prove (substantiate) subjective claims. Just like no-one can really say why a Porsche is better than an MX-5 (if we pretend they have the same 0-60 times and top speed for the sake of the argument). I much prefer subjective marketing BS to fantasy technical explanations with no connection to reality. There is a huge industry of people telling others what, mostly subjectively, is the best! When it comes to hi-fi my pet theory (a truth for me) is that measured performance is so unreliable because measurement is seldom done in a real context. If you can actually extract the on paper performance from a component you should get good sound, but I believe many components fail to deliver when put in real systems. Yeah agreed. When someone says this sounds really great, much better than everything else, I think yeah right, to your ears maybe. I'll listen to it and decide for myself thanks. But when they say it has 0.1% THD, 1.32ps jitter, S/N of 723dB, I think huh? That has no meaning in my context. I will be listening to music on it, not measuring it. I recognise that some equipment (especially digital) can have some things measured where there is clearly a better/worse scale, and that there is an obligation on manufacturers to ensure that there are no really poor design flaws in a product. I only buy from manufacturers (and dealers) that I trust not to fob off poor product. But the bottom line, for me, is that fluffy pseudoscience marketing should stick to shampoo and avoid audio. Honest marketing, like no-risk trials, that's what we like :) (And I do like how this thread has got totally off-topic. OP: this is how human interaction works. It's like having a conversation. You can always gently steer it back, but a bit of randomness never hurt anyone :) ) Adam -- adamslim SB3 into Derek Shek d2, Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost cables http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
opaqueice;169863 Wrote: Hmm, looks like *I* didn't read *your* post very carefully - sorry, my bad! Sometimes I think the internet is one massive miscommunication device. Then I realize I can't even remember how I fed myself before the web existed, and I change my mind... No problem. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
I built a linear psu (Cheers to Heuer for posting the parts list) over Christmas and first impressions were that the top was much brighter than before, but in listening closer the top seems far more complete, which I guess is why it is more promenant now. Maybe a play with a linear psu may help..? Just a thought :) -- Deaf Cat Deaf Cat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=515 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
hi desertrat58, I agree with the others suggesting a new PSU (not necessarily a linear one though). On my system, I found the standard SB3 to be a little disappointing, but a new PSU (or two) improved things considerably. I have read others reckon there should be no difference, so its a matter of trying it for yourself. If you have a SLA battery, try using a LM317 voltage regulator (it may not be ideal but it is cheap). It will give you an idea of the possible improvement (or not). regards -- Greg Erskine Greg Erskine's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7403 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
Thanks dlite, for info on Benchmark and Lavry. These are the 2 I've been considering heavily, and I read a shootout between the two where a pro audio reviewer loved the sound of the Lavry over the wonderful features of the Benchmark. Yes, the Bel Canto is another I should check out, as well as the new PS Audio DAC. Also, thank you for your input on the sound characteristics of SB3 vs. TP -- your opinion matches what I deduced from the various forums. I ripped to hard drive using EAC and FLAC. The network streams everything fine with no dropouts. Mogami Gold cables connect everything. My musical preferences are anything where the band can play and the singer can sing, except opera. Small combo and big band jazz, acoustic and hard rock, bluegrass and country. My system handles acoustic and electric music with equal aplomb. I straddle the fence between audiophile and pro audio gear, but when discussions turn silly I come down hard on the side of pro audio. As for the other suggestions... I should have been more specific, and said modding or tweaking the SB3 is not an option. I am the anti-tweaker. Thanks -- keep the opinions rolling in, please. desertrat58. -- desertrat58 desertrat58's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9431 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
desertrat58;169272 Wrote: Thanks dlite, for info on Benchmark and Lavry. These are the 2 I've been considering heavily, and I read a shootout between the two where a pro audio reviewer loved the sound of the Lavry over the wonderful features of the Benchmark. Yes, the Bel Canto is another I should check out, as well as the new PS Audio DAC. Also, thank you for your input on the sound characteristics of SB3 vs. TP -- your opinion matches what I deduced from the various forums. I ripped to hard drive using EAC and FLAC. The network streams everything fine with no dropouts. Mogami Gold cables connect everything. My musical preferences are anything where the band can play and the singer can sing, except opera. Small combo and big band jazz, acoustic and hard rock, bluegrass and country. My system handles acoustic and electric music with equal aplomb. I straddle the fence between audiophile and pro audio gear, but when discussions turn silly I come down hard on the side of pro audio. As for the other suggestions... I should have been more specific, and said modding or tweaking the SB3 is not an option. I am the anti-tweaker. Thanks -- keep the opinions rolling in, please. desertrat58. Another power supply is hardly a mod. You can either pay $2000 for a Transporter or you can pay around $30 for another power supply. (Or less if you try the battery route.) If the bundled power supply does indeed affect your other components, then you don't have all that much choice. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
I sold my Lavry to keep my TP. I think they are so close it is a matter of preference, not qualitative difference. However, if you go the Lavry route you really should get a PSU for the SB. IMO. It made a big difference to me even with the digital out. There is speculation thet the stock PSU emits a lot junk that can affect even the sound of other sources. So, if you consider a PSU a mod then perhaps you should go the TP route. Of course this is only my subjective opinion and there are many who find the PSU has no effect at all. Try listening to a different PSU and see if you hear a difference. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
A nice freebie upgrade (I'm sure this has been mentioned around here before!!) is to let your server do the decoding and stream raw WAV. I've no idea how reliable this is wirelessly as I'm wired only but I found a noticeable difference between FLACs decoded by server vs SB itself. And a vote for the DAC1, fantastic bit of kit, improved further with a Stereovox XV2 coax cable. I'm generally a cable agnostic having heard little to no difference on analogue cables but this one produced a marked difference :) -- Rangdo Gronda Gronda Rangdo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5238 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
desertrat58;169272 Wrote: Thanks dlite, for info on Benchmark and Lavry. These are the 2 I've been considering heavily, and I read a shootout between the two where a pro audio reviewer loved the sound of the Lavry over the wonderful features of the Benchmark. This may not be a popular response but... Check out the Benchmark DAC1 review from The Audio Critic: http://theaudiocritic.com/blog/index.php?op=ViewArticlearticleId=10blogId=1 If its effectively perfect digitially why pay more? Personally, I am in TAC's camp, not the subjectivist camp. If the DAC tests flat with no harmonics, distortion, flat response, etc then I don't see any way based on electronics or physics that it can have a audio color, just like with solid state amps. Suggestion/placebo are powerful effects that are difficult to control for in experimental design. Yet to this day, even in the face of double blind testing that shows otherwise, people argue for solid state amps with high impedance, low noise and flat response to have a color. I bet you the Tp will test out comparably to the DAC1. So the argument to be made is why buy a Tp when you can buy a SB3 and DAC1 and save a couple of hundred USD. Well, my answer is because I want it all in one package... And, there is some arguement that very small amounts of jitter are in fact audible. The Tp has better published jitter specs. Audible or not? Only a double blind study will tell for sure and I haven't heard of one. (the real answer is the Tp is way cooler) Also, I assume you looked at the review where subjectively they did not see a difference in the reference CD transport system to the Tp? On the AB test with the reference system the review says (in comparison to the reference CD transport): The results astonished me. I was flabbergasted at how hard I struggled and strained to hear any difference whatsoever between them. Then, when at last I thought I could hear something, I wasnt sure -- and I couldnt even tell which one was better, if at all. Basically, I had to call it a draw. http://www.soundstageav.com/onhifi.html -- Eric Carroll Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
Eric Carroll and dlite's responses address my post, 7 people have no clue. A power supply is a mod because I can't buy one, I have to make one, or have a carpet-bagger tweaker-modder make one. A cable and worrying about its connections is not a mod, it is a tweak, and you won't hear the effects of a tweak if equipment is properly designed and implemented. If Slim Devices felt a better power supply made a huge difference, they would have included a better one with the SB3. If cables made a real difference, equipment manufacturers would hard-wire umbilical cords to their equipment. I did not ask about mods and tweaks, and there is nothing wrong with my system - it is not too bright or too dull. It is close to $20K worth of audiophile and pro audio equipment, and the room is treated and set-up properly. As I said, my current vinyl rig does and former CD rigs did sound wonderful. If you disagree with me, that is fine, but leave this post alone. I am not personally attacking your audio biases, opinions or phobias. I have asked very specific questions with my very specific biases clearly elucidated. I asked about the upper frequency clarity and response of the TP vs. an outboard DAC + the SB3. Please don't get pissed at me. Just address my post. Thank you again, dlite and Eric Carroll, for your informative responses. I look forward to more info from people that understand what I ask. -- desertrat58 desertrat58's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9431 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
desertrat58 wrote: Eric Carroll and dlite's responses address my post, 7 people have no clue. Wow, you sure know how to turn folk on to helping you. A power supply is a mod because I can't buy one, I have to make one, or have a carpet-bagger tweaker-modder make one. A cable and worrying about its connections is not a mod, it is a tweak, and you won't hear the effects of a tweak if equipment is properly designed and implemented. Er, so why bother if you won't hear it? If Slim Devices felt a better power supply made a huge difference, they would have included a better one with the SB3. Not so. The SB3 is built to a price point. A linear supply is more expensive than a switching supply. So, it's a commercial decision to use a supply that is cheaper to produce. If cables made a real difference, equipment manufacturers would hard-wire umbilical cords to their equipment. So, cables don't make a difference either? I did not ask about mods and tweaks, and there is nothing wrong with my system - it is not too bright or too dull. It is close to $20K worth of audiophile and pro audio equipment, and the room is treated and set-up properly. As I said, my current vinyl rig does and former CD rigs did sound wonderful. If you disagree with me, that is fine, but leave this post alone. I am not personally attacking your audio biases, opinions or phobias. I have asked very specific questions with my very specific biases clearly elucidated. I asked about the upper frequency clarity and response of the TP vs. an outboard DAC + the SB3. Please don't get pissed at me. Just address my post. Thank you again, dlite and Eric Carroll, for your informative responses. I look forward to more info from people that understand what I ask. Wow, yes sir, right away, sir. Anything you say, sir. Try a little less arrogance and I for one would be more prepared to contribute. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 -- Transporter or DAC?
Hi, I sell Slim Devices products and the Lavry, Benchmark and Belcanto dacs here in Australia, out of these what you are describing would be best rememdied with the benchmark which is has a good level of detail and clarity, plenty of dynamics and to me a little strong in the higher frequencies (but your speakers/system may need this to be balanced overall). The Lavry personally I favor over the Benchmark, it is not as in your face as the benchmark, I feel it has a more balanced sound in my system. The Belcanto DAC 3 may also be worth considering, 6moons have a good review at the moment, but I am yet to here personally in my own system so will reserve judgement till, then. The Transporter is a considerable jump up over the SB3 sound qualitywise but the tonality is similar to the SB3 although I would say it has moved closer to your preferences. Hope this helps. -- dlite dlite's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4885 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31533 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
