Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
- If you think tube rolling is something you do on a hill with large diameter sewer pipeyou might be an audio redneck. -- steveinaz - transport: squeezebox touch/channel island audio ps - dac: benchmark dac/pre - linestage: placette passive - power amplifier: parasound hca-1500a - speakers: harbeth compact 7es-3 monitor steveinaz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34707 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
If your bedroom system is a Bose Wave - you are one hell of an audiophile redneck. -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
ralphpnj;687653 Wrote: mcr you are by far the best troll on the entire internet. I'm just glad you choose this forum to do your trolling on. You made my day! You know what, I think he has a secret soft spot for us too. Certainly I do. I find more politeness, knowledge and thoughtfulness here than on any other audio forum I've seen. (A low standard I hear you cry!) Weird that it happens to be a manufacturers forum, and not an audiophile brand either, yet people here are worth my time. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
maggior;687656 Wrote: - If your new DAC sits on top of your old broken DAC, you may be a redneck. (attributed to Jeff Foxworthy's similar comment regarding a new TV sitting on top of a broken console TV). magiccarpetride;687703 Wrote: - If your new Shakti Stone sits on top of your old broken Shakti Stone, you may be a redneck. Ha ha! But a real redneck would have three half stripped out broken DACs -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
magiccarpetride;687633 Wrote: My bad. To correct the error of my ways, I will here indicate the proper attribution for all the points I've reposted: mcr you are by far the best troll on the entire internet. I'm just glad you choose this forum to do your trolling on. You made my day! -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
- If your new DAC sits on top of your old broken DAC, you may be a redneck. (attributed to Jeff Foxworthy's similar comment regarding a new TV sitting on top of a broken console TV). -- maggior Rich - Setup: 2 SB3s, 4 Booms, 1 Duet, 1 Receiver, 1 Touch, iPeng on iPod Touch, SqueezeCommander on Xoom. SuSE 11.0 Server running SqueezeBoxServer 7.5.5, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave. Current library stats: 37,509 songs, 2,934 albums, 515 artists. http://www.last.fm/user/maggior maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
maggior;687656 Wrote: - If your new DAC sits on top of your old broken DAC, you may be a redneck. (attributed to Jeff Foxworthy's similar comment regarding a new TV sitting on top of a broken console TV). When I was young (a long time ago) everybody had large black and white console TVs, when color sets started coming out people would frequently get a portable color model that had to sit on top of something, what better place than the old BW console. No need to buy a TV stand. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
maggior;687656 Wrote: - If your new DAC sits on top of your old broken DAC, you may be a redneck. - If your new Shakti Stone sits on top of your old broken Shakti Stone, you may be a redneck. -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
andy_c;686968 Wrote: By the way, the OP claims his '*professional background is in scientific research*' (http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=generaln=592550;). LOL! He's also posted the same thread at '*Audio Asylum*' (http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/61/613462.html), and taken parts of '*others' responses in the Audio Asylum thread*' (http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/61/613492.html) and reposted them here and '*elsewhere*' (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=289385) as his own. I'm glad it's not just this forum that has been sent into a spiral descent of bullshit... :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
Phil Leigh;686486 Wrote: My timer is up (only 30 mins) Yes jitter exists - and it seems according to MOST research and certainly my experience FWIW you need a hell of a lot of it in order to hear it! But Phil, audiophiles can hear everything, they hear bats communicating at night, they can hear the RF interference caused by a super nova in another galaxy, they can hear the movement of tectonic plates in the earths crust, they can hear.oh what it must be like to be an audiophile ;) Our simple senses simply cannot grasp the reality they live in. -- probedb 'last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/probedb) probedb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7825 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
probedb;686617 Wrote: But Phil, audiophiles can hear everything, they hear bats communicating at night, they can hear the RF interference caused by a super nova in another galaxy, they can hear the movement of tectonic plates in the earths crust, they can hear.oh what it must be like to be an audiophile ;) Our simple senses simply cannot grasp the reality they live in. True, very true. However you left out a few important ones such as the sound of the loose fitting sleeves on the violinist in the third row as she moves her arms and the sound of the Ford Explorer with a worn left front tire as it drove past the recording studio. Due to the great soundstage that their system is able to produce they hear the Explorer just as if it outside their listening room. Remarkable. It should be noted that be changing power cords on various piece of equipment the the Explorers worn tire moves from the left front to the right front, left rear or right rear. With the stock power cord the worn tire appears to be the spare! And who says power cords don't and can't make a huge difference! -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
probedb;686617 Wrote: But Phil, audiophiles can hear everything, they hear bats communicating at night, they can hear the RF interference caused by a super nova in another galaxy, they can hear the movement of tectonic plates in the earths crust, they can hear.oh what it must be like to be an audiophile ;) Our simple senses simply cannot grasp the reality they live in. Not to mention the other obvious benefits they possess: The ability to remember tube part numbers up to ten characters and their associated sound as well as well as their damnable ability to make patterned white bread toast on their amplifiers without have to miss a single strain of music. -- pski real stereo doesn't just wake the neighbors, it -enrages- them.. It is truly the Golden Age of Wireless pski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
pski;686668 Wrote: Not to mention the other obvious benefits they possess: The ability to remember tube part numbers up to ten characters and their associated sound as well as well as their damnable ability to make patterned white bread toast on their amplifiers without have to miss a single strain of music. Thanks for bringing this thread back to its topic. -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
- If you've ever setup a graphic equalizer to make a cool design, with no regard to sound---you might be an audio redneck. - If your subwoofer doubles as your coffee tableyou might be an audio redneck. - If the tops of your Cerwin Vegas have ever been covered in saran wrap, in preparartion for a partyyou might be an audio redneck. Thank you, I'll be here all night! -- steveinaz - transport: squeezebox touch/channel island audio ps - dac: benchmark dac/pre - linestage: placette passive - power amplifier: parasound hca-1500a - speakers: harbeth compact 7es-3 monitor steveinaz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34707 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
steveinaz;686771 Wrote: - If you've ever setup a graphic equalizer to make a cool design, with no regard to sound---you might be an audio redneck. - If your subwoofer doubles as your coffee tableyou might be an audio redneck. - If the tops of your Cerwin Vegas have ever been covered in saran wrap, in preparartion for a partyyou might be an audio redneck. - If you've ever owned a Kenwood spectrum analyzer, cause the lights look coolyou might be an audio redneck. - If you've ever mounted casters on the bottoms of your speakers, for better mobility or that pro look---you might be an audio redneck. Thank you, I'll be here all night! - If you always talk about CAF (Cousin Acceptance Factor) -- you may be an audiophile redneck - If you think Felatio is a reviewer for the 6moons.com -- you may be an audiophile redneck - If you're notorious for lying through your tooth -- you may be an audiophile redneck - If you spend hours staring at your record cleaning solution because it says Concentrate -- you may be an audiophile redneck - If the door to your trailer is a Magnepan -- you may be an audiophile redneck - If your wife tells you to load the dishwasher and you ask How many ohms? -- you may be an audiophile redneck - If you call Elusive Disc and they recognize your voice -- you may be an audiophile redneck - If you don't get a UPS shipment in a week, the UPS guy checks to make sure you are OK -- you may be an audiophile redneck - if you insist that toilet paper be kept in the 'coming out from the bottom' format because it improves your sound -- you may be an audiophile redneck - If your wife's hairdo was once ruined by your subwoofers -- you may be an audiophile redneck - If you correct polarity by movin' your trailer to face the opposite direction -- you may be an audiophile redneck and finally, - If you think Genitalia is an Italian speaker company -- you may be an audiophile redneck -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
Phil Leigh;686269 Wrote: Whatever it is you are hearing, it is neither measurable nor understandable using conventional science. Dear Phil. Bold statement. Did you become the speaker of the conventional science community!?!? ;) My view: I'm sure that every difference you can hear can be measured. Things would be just damned complex and costly. Nobody is willing or able to put that much effort into the subject. And if you finally measure you end up with a. highly questionable measurements (if 10 people measure you will get 10 different results) (measureing is an art of is own) (measurement equipment is driven close if not over its limits) (measurement equipment introduces its own flaws to the measurement) (ever compared measurements done in reviews and those done by manufacturers !?!? I bet, not a single measurement will look the same) b. highly questionable interpetations of measurements (if ten people interprete results, you'll get 10 different opinions about how these would sound exactly) ( I havn't seen any professional manufacturer who would develop and deliver equipment without listening to his devices, no they wouldn't trust their own measurements. These measurements first of all have to look good to please the marketing and those wannabe scientific folks.) c. many of those who do measure ( willing or able to spent time and money) do have their own agenda (usually commercial interests, or big egos) Not any audio equipment is sold based on scientific facts. They're sold based on some industrywide commonly agreed (questionable) specs - which seem to make them comparable. Of course there's crowd out there who buys by comparing specs. But that's the minority. People take buying decisions based on reviews and listenig tests. If you'd compare those specs, all devices should sound very similar. If there is a THD/N of -100db or -102db. What does is say about sound. Nothing Two amps can have the same specs and sound completely different. So what!?!? You as a scientific person would obviously buy the -102db model, even though it would sound crappier then the -100db device. I'd buy the -100db model because it sounds better and I know that these low levels are somewhat irrelevant anyhow. Look Phil. The whole thing is not black or white. Of course you need measurements. But you can't get rid of listening tests. Listening tests is the only thing everybody can do. High quality measurements can be done by a very very small group of people only and still wouldn't show you the soul of that piece of silicon and metal. And don't forget. At one point audio becomes a matter of taste. Never try to argue with people about taste. That won't work and most probably turns back on you. I find this 'Designers Speakout' (http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insightscontent_id=11pagestring=Do+Measurements+Matter) a very interesting read. Enjoy. Cheers -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 3.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
Soundcheck, listen blind and then I'll listen to you. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
soundcheck;686419 Wrote: Dear Phil. Bold statement. Did you become the speaker of the conventional science community!?!? ;) My view: I'm sure that every difference you can hear can be measured. ... I agree with pretty much everything you say here, Klaus. When you say I'm sure that every difference you can hear can be measured. I agree... so if it can't be measured... maybe that's because it isn't really there to be heard? You have to allow for that possibility. Bear in mind that I'm saying this as someone who HAS measured/detected changes from your work. kind regards, Phil -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
Phil Leigh;686421 Wrote: I agree with pretty much everything you say here, Klaus. When you say I'm sure that every difference you can hear can be measured. I agree... so if it can't be measured... maybe that's because it isn't really there to be heard? You have to allow for that possibility. Bear in mind that I'm saying this as someone who HAS measured/detected changes from your work. kind regards, Phil Look Phil. I think you're kind of smart guy. But you seem to have a problem to get the message out of my posting. I'm not refering to my work btw. I couldn't care less. Above post is kept generic. Though it pretty much shows the reason why I wouldn't even try to start measurements on my own. The funny thing is all those experts and scientists around here continue to scream for measurements. Non of them seems to be willing to contribute anything. (Your diffmaker results are OK but wouldn't be acceptable as a sales argument or a scientific base. The only one who contributed measurements on HW mods was Caad in the TT2.0 thread. Obviously he had access to reasonably good gear. ) However: As I said, I have a problem with the black and white game. And please: It's not really nice that you just copy 50% of my statement and state we share a common view. I don't think we share a common view. You seem to continue trying to put people into the voodoo corner, because they don't deliver measurements. I hoped that you would have at least a look at my link references. I'd say I'd share my view with those audio professionals, who are well aware of todays limitations. Especially you, should be a bit more careful by now. You tried to prove your scientific view: If you can't hear it, it's not there with Audio Diffmaker on TT2.0. I guess you were surprised to find out about a different logic: If YOU can't hear a difference, it doesn't mean it's not there. (Especially if other people report to hear a difference.) If YOU can't hear a difference in your own environment, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist in a different environment. It's useless to try to get the issue solved in the virtual world. Cheers -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 3.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
soundcheck;686432 Wrote: If YOU can't hear a difference, it doesn't mean it's not there. Has anybody disputed this? I think not. But have a look at this slightly modified statement (I moved some NOT gates around): kcehcdnuos Wrote: If YOU can hear a difference, it doesn't mean it's there. Some people refuse to consider this possibility, and I won't name names, because everybody knows who I'm talking about. That's where the problem's at. -- Soulkeeper -Please, do not feed the trolls!- vote for this bug instead: 'Bug 17797: Updating wiki.slimdevices.com' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17797) Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
soundcheck;686432 Wrote: Look Phil. I think you're kind of smart guy. But you seem to have a problem to get the message out of my posting. I'm not refering to my work btw. I couldn't care less. Above post is kept generic. Though it pretty much shows the reason why I wouldn't even try to start measurements on my own. The funny thing is all those experts and scientists around here continue to scream for measurements. Non of them seems to be willing to contribute anything. (Your diffmaker results are OK but wouldn't be acceptable as a sales argument or a scientific base. The only one who contributed measurements on HW mods was Caad in the TT2.0 thread. Obviously he had access to reasonably good gear. ) However: As I said, I have a problem with the black and white game. And please: It's not really nice that you just copy 50% of my statement and state we share a common view. I don't think we share a common view. You seem to continue trying to put people into the voodoo corner, because they don't deliver measurements. I hoped that you would have at least a look at my link references. I'd say I'd share my view with those audio professionals, who are well aware of todays limitations. Especially you, should be a bit more careful by now. You tried to prove your scientific view: If you can't hear it, it's not there with Audio Diffmaker on TT2.0. I guess you were surprised to find out about a different logic: If YOU can't hear a difference, it doesn't mean it's not there. (Especially if other people report to hear a difference.) If YOU can't hear a difference in your own environment, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist in a different environment. It's useless to try to get the issue solved in the virtual world. Cheers Klaus, for some reason we continue to have problems communicating - I don't know why. I didn't state anywhere that we share a common view - I said that I agree with what you wrote in your post that I quoted from. There's nothing not really nice about that. I'm not putting anyone in the voodoo corner because they don't deliver measurements - I don't EXPECT measurements from anyone. Also, I'm not saying everything is black or white. I also haven't had time to check out your links yet. All I'm saying is that when people say that they hear things it MIGHT be possible to back that up with some form of measurement. If this is possible then what they say is proven to be true. If it is not possible to measure a difference, then either: 1) the measurement process is inadequate or 2) what they believe they heard is not really there. I'm not saying which one is correct - because I have no way of knowing. However, plenty of other people seem to have no problem in deciding which is correct... I'm also perfectly happy that there are real differences that cannot be heard by some people or in some environments. ADM proves that absolutely - it can detect quite large differences that no human can detect in any environment! It's all very simple really. Let's forget about any measurements. If person A says I changed X and it sounds different and person B says I changed X and it sounds no different... who is correct? Can they both be correct? What do you think? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
Reading through this thread and several other threads here in the Audiophiles section I've noticed similar pattern running through these threads. On one side there are the people who claim to hear differences in the sound of their system as a result of all kinds of tweaks. These differences range from slight improvements to oh my god major improvements. On the other side are the people who claim that these tweaks cannot possibly make any difference in the sound of one's system. I would like to land somewhere in the middle of these two belief systems. Namely that these tweaks might make a difference but, at best, it is going to be a very small difference and that difference may or may not be an improvement. For example take power cords. Why would a high end audio equipment manufacturer trying to build a cost no object, state of the art piece of equipment not go through the trouble of providing the best sounding power cord? Simple because power cords do not make much of difference. Beyond the class of tweaks concerned with proper system setup most tweaks offer little in way of improvement. Tweaks, like everything else in audio, fall victim to the old law of diminishing returns and adding more and more tweaks will not result in additive improvements. So tweak to your heart's content. However please don't tell us how this or that tweak made a HUGE improvement and then try to back up your claim with pseudo-science. Most of the real science only proves that, at best, the tweak can only make a very minor difference and that difference may or may not be an improvement. -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
I have read the links that Klaus posted earlier. They are all about the problems faced by equipment designers trying to establish exactly which measurable parameters really affect the reproduction quality - and how to measure them and which measurement values are better or worse. This is all fine and I TOTALLY agree with them - we don't have a good understanding of the parameters that affect quality beyond the obvious ones of distortion, noise, dynamic range and frequency response - and obviously these don't tell anywhere near the whole story. I've always believed this - well, ever since I first heard an amp in the 70's that had fantastic specs and sounded really bad. So let me be clear to anyone reading this thread - when I talk about measurements I do NOT mean these types of measurements - the ones that would help us measure better or worse. I personally only ever refer to the (ADM-style) null test which lets us detect if there has really been a CHANGE or a DIFFERENCE. I'm going to stop calling this a measurement because it isn't really - it is a test. Changes can be tested to see if they have any detectable effect. This doesn't directly help anyone build better equipment but it can expose the snake oil and false claims. All other measurements are very different animals and clearly flawed, as explained by the links Klaus. Just to be crystal clear in this;: I do NOT believe in conventional measurements helping us determine how to construct better systems - if they did we would already have built the best system imaginable and there would be no discussion. I absolutely believe that the null test can detect changes/no change and that it is valid and useful to use this type of test to challenge reports of huge subjective improvements from all manner of tweaks. This can help us move away from does it do anything to is it better or worse - which is ultimately more useful! (As an aside) Personally I think we have too many physicists and electrical engineers looking at this problem and not enough physiologists/human biologists. I don't think we will ever understand the key parameters, how to measure them and what they mean for better or worse until we understand much more about how the ear/brain works and what REALLY makes us prefer some systems/components over others. I think we need to put down the soldering iron and the Jitter Analyser for a while and turn to psycho-acoustics for some progress... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
ralphpnj;686442 Wrote: On one side there are the people who claim to hear differences in the sound of their system as a result of all kinds of tweaks. These differences range from slight improvements to oh my god major improvements. On the other side are the people who claim that these tweaks cannot possibly make any difference in the sound of one's system. I would like to land somewhere in the middle of these two belief systems. In many circumstances well and good, but when one of those sides is patently wrong (e.g. fiddling with my LMS box lifts a veil from the blacker blacks, it's night and day, and it's definitely not in my head, because as we all know TCP/IP is not bit perfect, and it does suffer from jitter, just like everything else except extremely expensive god given audiophile magical equipment), and the other is obviously correct (BS, RTFM), the middle ground is also wrong. I agree that one shouldn't bee dogmatical, but having a sense of reality is not dogma. And magical thinking is not openmindedness. -- Soulkeeper -Please, do not feed the trolls!- vote for this bug instead: 'Bug 17797: Updating wiki.slimdevices.com' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17797) Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
Worthy tweaks: 1. Read and follow the speaker maker's instructions on placement. Very few decent speakers are designed to sound correct jammed into corners or close to a back or side wall. If the speakers don't have instructions, get better speakers. If you are forced to place speakers based-on aesthetic appeal, you might want to consider what other compromises you are making in your life. 2. Disengage the loudness button and bypass or neutralize any tone controls or equalizers. Source and Volume are the only True Controls. Active equalization in modern sub-woofer applications have an exemption. 3. If you MUST worry about supply A/C, worry that your supply current is sufficient and that grounding and polarity are correct. Have an electrician set a dedicated breaker to your stereo rather than subscribing to power cable mummery. I have a power amp on the bottom of my Kappa 9's that was eating 6 amp fast blow fuses faster than a teenager eats Tic Tacs. When I moved from that house (60 amps total service/aluminum wiring) to my current home, the cure was effected. 4. Avoid any product containing the word Monster. Avoid any salesman or vendor that points, gestures, or suggests any product containing the word Monster. 5. If you want to be sure your interconnects are good enough, keep them away from power cables and you'll be just fine. 6. Rotate your tires. P -- pski real stereo doesn't just wake the neighbors, it -enrages- them.. It is truly the Golden Age of Wireless pski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
Soulkeeper;686458 Wrote: In many circumstances well and good, but when one of those sides is patently wrong (e.g. fiddling with my LMS box lifts a veil from the blacker blacks, it's night and day, and it's definitely not in my head, because as we all know TCP/IP is not bit perfect, and it does suffer from jitter, just like everything else except extremely expensive god given audiophile magical equipment), and the other is obviously correct (BS, it's asynchroneous and has error correction, RTFM), the middle ground is also wrong. I agree that one shouldn't bee dogmatical, but having a sense of reality is not dogma. And magical thinking is not openmindedness. I agree. There is a sort of knee jerk middleism which can be socially useful but is intellectually dishonest and often sanctimonious. When dealing with squabbling children, you usually have to say they are both equally right and wrong and that there are two sides to a story blah blah a) because you don't actually know; b) because you don't actually care: you just want them to shut up. Equally in many social situations amongst decent honest folk it's a reasonable startign point to assume that most strife is all down to misunderstandings, and it's helpful if someone plays peacemaker. But when people are talking crap, it frankly isn't very helpful or clver to leap to the position that they are half right. That can I think be distinguished from various social proprieties which should be observed. a.I am all for observing norms of courtesy etc provided that other do; but life is just too short to waste it pretending that persistent and importunate trolls and fruitcakes are anything else. In real life you don't have communications with people like that if you can avoid it. b. I do think that there are situations in which people should mind their own business. Some who starts a thread saying can anyone recommend some good speaker cables between £50-100/m is IMHO entitled to get through their day without being told that all speaker cables sound the same. Equally someone who asks about getting a dac should be able to get through their day without being told that this is a waste of time without a linear psu on their router. This is not to do with the correctness or otherwise of the views expressed. c. equally there is a lot of attention-seeking behaviour.We may all be guilty of a little tendentiousness now and again, and we should not complain if people take up the opportunity for a scrap when it is offered. And finally, (and possibly hypocritically), what bothers me is not arguing or (by and large) rudeness but the lack of genuine reflection. Maybe it would be good idea if we all had to press a timer when we read a post and to not be allowed to respond for an hour. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
It seems that I am somewhat misunderstood or, more correctly, quoted out of context. So I'll try to rephrase and see if that helps. My statement I would like to land somewhere in the middle of these two belief systems was followed by Namely that these tweaks might make a difference but, at best, it is going to be a very small difference and that difference may or may not be an improvement. What I am trying to express is that many tweaks can be shown to be addressing specific problems, such as jitter or dirty AC power, but what the tweakers leave out is that these problems are often very minor and addressing them will provide little or no improvement to the sound of one's system. Sure jitter exists but at what point does it adversely effect the sound of one's system and is the jitter in a system without the anti-jitter tweak having an adverse effect on the sound of that system? It most cases the answer to the second part is a flat out NO and therefore applying the anti-jitter tweak will not have any audible effect. Sure the tweak may in fact reduce jitter but so what since the reduction cannot be heard. The same thing applies for most tweaks in that they are addressing issues where any change or improvement will be marginal, at best. -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
ralphpnj;686482 Wrote: It seems that I am somewhat misunderstood or, more correctly, quoted out of context. So I'll try to rephrase and see if that helps. My statement I would like to land somewhere in the middle of these two belief systems was followed by Namely that these tweaks might make a difference but, at best, it is going to be a very small difference and that difference may or may not be an improvement. What I am trying to express is that many tweaks can be shown to be addressing specific problems, such as jitter or dirty AC power, but what the tweakers leave out is that these problems are often very minor and addressing them will provide little or no improvement to the sound of one's system. Sure jitter exists but at what point does it adversely effect the sound of one's system and is the jitter in a system without the anti-jitter tweak having an adverse effect on the sound of that system? It most cases the answer to the second part is a flat out NO and therefore applying the anti-jitter tweak will not have any audible effect. Sure the tweak may in fact reduce jitter but so what since the reduction cannot be heard. The same thing applies for most tweaks in that they are addressing issues where any change or improvement will be marginal, at best. My timer is up (only 30 mins) Yes jitter exists - and it seems according to MOST research and certainly my experience FWIW you need a hell of a lot of it in order to hear it! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
Perhaps a basic book on how computers work would also be helpful? At least something to help get through the fact nothing ... No amount of tinkering... You can do to the operating system and the hardware it is running on can ever change the data content of the IP packets being sent from an LMS server to a player... And that DATA is all there is ... Just data... No clocks, no analogue components of any sort... NOTHING. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
Phil Leigh;686255 Wrote: Perhaps a basic book on how computers work would also be helpful? At least something to help get through the fact nothing ... No amount of tinkering... You can do to the operating system and the hardware it is running on can ever change the data content of the IP packets being sent from an LMS server to a player... And that DATA is all there is ... Just data... No clocks, no analogue components of any sort... NOTHING. what is your theory of why people hear differences when running Fidelizer ? Is it just me and Soundcheck and the Fidelizer developer that can hear an improvement ? -- SBGK SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
I don't know what a audiophile redneck is, but I appreciate being in the company of so many world experts in audiophile digital theory that have decided, like me, to splash out on the only bit perfect digital stramer in the universe and only £200, bargain. -- SBGK SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
SBGK;686263 Wrote: what is your theory of why people hear differences when running Fidelizer ? Is it just me and Soundcheck and the Fidelizer developer that can hear an improvement ? The other two haven't posted here directly about this IIRC. As to why YOU hear things sounding differently... I have no idea. Whatever it is you are hearing, it is neither measurable nor understandable using conventional science. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
SBGK;686264 Wrote: I don't know what a audiophile redneck is, but I appreciate being in the company of so many world experts in audiophile digital theory that have decided, like me, to splash out on the only bit perfect digital stramer in the universe and only £200, bargain. It's not the only bit-perfect device out there... What makes it so attractive is that it is completely isolated from the behaviour of the underlying data server. This makes it very different to those otherwise similar devices that put everything in one box. The computer running LMS is totally irrelevant (it could even be in a different universe, powered by steam) - all it is doing is serving IP packets to a network. Provided that the server is galvanically isolated from the Touch - and you have to try quite hard for it not to be! - there is no known mechanism by which the server operating system/hardware can degrade the audio behaviour of the Touch. This is the complete opposite of people who run USB-SPDIF interfaces or soundcards connected to computers - in these situations, the operating system/computer hardware can definitely degrade the behaviour of those interfaces. It seems, however, that there is a clear lack of understanding about these two worlds and why you can't apply the logic and experiences of one to the other. As to why people hear what they hear - that is impossible to answer because human hearing is not not measurable except in crude terms of frequency response and dynamic range. What the brain does with its sensory inputs is currently impossible to fully understand or measure - but clearly it varies wildly from person to person. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
Phil Leigh;686269 Wrote: The other two haven't posted here directly about this IIRC. As to why YOU hear things sounding differently... I have no idea. Whatever it is you are hearing, it is neither measurable nor understandable using conventional science. Phil, If you won't try it then would you accept an invitation to come to hear it at my house next time you're in Gloucestershire. There is most definately an improvement in the sound with Fidelizer and the Windows 7 tweaks, in my system at least. -- SBGK SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
SBGK;686292 Wrote: Phil, If you won't try it then would you accept an invitation to come to hear it at my house next time you're in Gloucestershire. There is most definately an improvement in the sound with Fidelizer and the Windows 7 tweaks, in my system at least. Hey - I never said I wouldn't try it... later... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
SBGK;686292 Wrote: Phil, If you won't try it then would you accept an invitation to come to hear it at my house next time you're in Gloucestershire. There is most definately an improvement in the sound with Fidelizer and the Windows 7 tweaks, in my head at least. I had to fix your statement for you... PS) The Fidelizer developer most likely doesn't run LMS and squeezeboxen. So it's just you and soundcheck on this one. -- Jeff Flowerday Jeff Flowerday's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15883 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
Jeff Flowerday;686305 Wrote: I had to fix your statement for you... PS) The Fidelizer developer most likely doesn't run LMS and squeezeboxen. So it's just you and soundcheck on this one. There is probably some effect using Fidelizer if you actually listen to audio with your computer . I would certainly find some time to try if used my computer for music . which I did way back fiddling with asio and kernel streaming and stuff that where important if listens to the computer But this is exactly what your not doing when using a squeezebox . Why not just uninstall all sound drivers and devices from the pc, rip out the sound card to and the squeezebox will still play as it is not in any way connected to the sound system on the pc so tweaking the pc's sound system is irrelevant.. If one is afraid for server load one should definitely not transcode flac to wav on the server ;) -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
Archimago;686240 Wrote: LOL, I don't know whether you're trying to be funny or offensive. I like the following though: So what does this make you? I see you've started a few threads here knowing full well the tendency towards objectivism with many of the posters here. Tough crowd. One wonders -- due to what peculiar set of circumstances did we end up with such humourless group of people on this forum? Why is everyone so somber, solemn, and hell bent on impersonating a school principal here? So no one wants to play the redneck game? No traces of playfulness to be found anywhere? Oh well, I give up, you win, go back to your super serious measurements... -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
Phil Leigh;686301 Wrote: Hey - I never said I wouldn't try it... later... OK so now I've tried it... At the audiophile setting... Couldn't hear any difference to be honest. Only did a quick a/b... I suppose I could break out ADM and test it, but that will have to wait. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
magiccarpetride;686336 Wrote: Tough crowd. One wonders -- due to what peculiar set of circumstances did we end up with such humourless group of people on this forum? Why is everyone so somber, solemn, and hell bent on impersonating a school principal here? So no one wants to play the redneck game? No traces of playfulness to be found anywhere? Oh well, I give up, you win, go back to your super serious measurements... I know, I fear for the future of Logitech, it seems their products are already perfect and no one is interested in any improvements. -- SBGK SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
Phil Leigh;686339 Wrote: OK so now I've tried it... At the audiophile setting... Couldn't hear any difference to be honest. Only did a quick a/b... I suppose I could break out ADM and test it, but that will have to wait. Curiouser and curiouser! Cried Alice Phil, my system is so highly resolving that I can tell if Squeezeserver.exe is on priority idle or real time, same if it is on dedicated cores or shared cores. Maybe my brain reacts adversely to hearing music which does not sound correct and that is why I am so sensitive to an imperfect aural picture. -- SBGK SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
SBGK;686367 Wrote: Curiouser and curiouser! Cried Alice Phil, my system is so highly resolving that I can tell if Squeezeserver.exe is on priority idle or real time, same if it is on dedicated cores or shared cores. Maybe my brain reacts adversely to hearing music which does not sound correct and that is why I am so sensitive to an imperfect aural picture. What exactly is this system of yours? - sounds interesting. As an aside, how do you know what correct sounds like?... Were you there when it was recorded? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
SBGK;686367 Wrote: Curiouser and curiouser! Cried Alice Phil, my system is so highly resolving that I can tell if Squeezeserver.exe is on priority idle or real time, same if it is on dedicated cores or shared cores. Maybe my brain reacts adversely to hearing music which does not sound correct and that is why I am so sensitive to an imperfect aural picture. OK, taking this at face value: is your SBT connected wired or wirelessly? If wired, what kind of ethernet cables are you using between your server and the Touch? -- darrell darrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13460 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
Phil Leigh;686369 Wrote: What exactly is this system of yours? - sounds interesting. As an aside, how do you know what correct sounds like?... Were you there when it was recorded? Well, I know what I like, that's all that matters to me. Just tried the Ingus DRC (never heard of it before seeing your signature), pretty poor on my system, massive drop in resolution. system is laptop with optimised Win 7, linear ps, ethernet, SBT + fidelity level 1 mods, TT3.0 default priorities and buffer, coax to Benchmark DAC1, direct wired to Linn Klout, Townsend Isolda, ATC SCM20 all plugged into Trichord Powerblock. -- SBGK SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
SBGK;686389 Wrote: Well, I know what I like, that's all that matters to me. Just tried the Ingus DRC (never heard of it before seeing your signature), pretty poor on my system, massive drop in resolution. system is laptop with optimised Win 7, linear ps, ethernet, SBT + fidelity level 1 mods, TT3.0 default priorities and buffer, coax to Benchmark DAC1, direct wired to Linn Klout, Townsend Isolda, ATC SCM20 all plugged into Trichord Powerblock. Might you be suffering from non-signal path noise being injected into the Touch from your computer over the ethernet? See this recent post http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=686276postcount=1415 Perhaps try wifi, and see if your computer settings still have an effect. (I know that there is a school of thought which says that using wifi is bad for the sound, but that's not important here - you would be comparing wifi with server settings vs wifi without server settings. -- darrell darrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13460 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
SBGK;686367 Wrote: Curiouser and curiouser! Cried Alice Phil, my system is so highly resolving that I can tell if Squeezeserver.exe is on priority idle or real time, same if it is on dedicated cores or shared cores. Maybe my brain reacts adversely to hearing music which does not sound correct and that is why I am so sensitive to an imperfect aural picture. no it isnt, and no you can't. I promise. Prove it. Please. -- TheOctavist VortexboxSBT(TT 3.0)Forssell MDAC-2Klein and Hummell 0300D Sota Sapphire/Lyra KleosBespoke Valve Phono StageMastersound Due VentiLink Audio K100 TheOctavist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
SBGK;686389 Wrote: Just tried the Ingus DRC (never heard of it before seeing your signature), pretty poor on my system, massive drop in resolution. You mean Inguz? What microphone did you use? -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
Calm down, dude. You are begging for more insults. :-) -- vett93 Main system: Source: Transporter, modded by ModWright: http://www.modwright.com/modifications/transporter-truth-mods.php Preamp: Dude from Tube Research Labs: http://www.tuberesearchlabs.com/products/dude.html Amp: NP100 Platinum from AltaVista Audio: http://www.altavistaaudio.com/np100.html Speakers: Alto Utopia Be from Focal-JMLab: http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/focal_jmlab_alto_utopia.htm vett93's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13301 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
If there is something better(lower distortion, flatter freq response, good off axis response) then it WILL show in the measurements. the problem is.. nobody knows how to listen, or knows even the basics of sound reproduction, much less DIGITAL AUDIO. MCR. Read. http://www.amazon.com/Audiophoolery-engineer-engineering-electronics-pseudoscience/dp/B000ALO5PK/ref=sr_1_3?s=booksie=UTF8qid=1327467491sr=1-3 http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Expert-Everything-Need-About/dp/0240821009/ref=sr_1_4?s=booksie=UTF8qid=1327467491sr=1-4 http://www.amazon.com/Sounds-Perception-New-Philosophical-Essays/dp/019928296X/ref=sr_1_1?s=booksie=UTF8qid=1327467417sr=1-1 http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Audio-Explained-Engineer/dp/141960001X http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Digital-Audio-Sixth-Video/dp/0071663460/ref=sr_1_1?s=booksie=UTF8qid=1327467055sr=1-1 http://www.valorebooks.com/textbooks/handbook-of-recording-engineering-4th-edition/9780387284705?utm_medium=referralutm_campaign=Froogleutm_source=Froogledate=01/22/12buy=3 http://www.amazon.com/Eargles-Microphone-Book-Second-Application/dp/0240519612/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1327467318sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Audio-Second-Art-Science/dp/0240808371/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1327467342sr=8-1 http://stereosoundbook.com/ -- TheOctavist VortexboxSBT(TT 3.0)Forssell MDAC-2Klein and Hummell 0300D Sota Sapphire/Lyra KleosBespoke Valve Phono StageMastersound Due VentiLink Audio K100 TheOctavist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile rednecks
LOL, I don't know whether you're trying to be funny or offensive. I like the following though: magiccarpetride;686176 Wrote: A definition of a being a redneck is possessing glorious absence of sophistication. BLAH BLAH BLAH - you frequent audiophile forums looking for people to attack, to tar and feather them and kick them out, because such activities bring you endless joy and make you feel great about yourself BLAH BLAH BLAH So what does this make you? I see you've started a few threads here knowing full well the tendency towards objectivism with many of the posters here. -- Archimago Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93236 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
