[aus-soaring] Reporting distances

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Question - why do glider pilots insist on thinking and then reporting on the
radio their distances in Km's when the unit of measure for navigation in
aviation is NM?  AIP GEN 2.1-1  (1.1)

I know all badge and FIA claims are make in Km's, but that is paper work.

If you have your  GPS set up to read in Km's, all you have to do is divide
the Km's by  2 and say  Glider *** approximately  **nm  of , and
what ever your report is going to say - to easy.

SDF



-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Quinn
Sent:   Wednesday, 7 February 2001 00:27
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [aus-soaring] Of airspace infringements and all that 

It seems I need to repeat my original comment on this issue:

".I believe any glider with any potential to be seen by the calling
aircraft  should respond on their own behalf unless a bunch of gliders are
gaggle flying  in which case one response on behalf of the group should
suffice."

At no stage did I suggest we shouldn't respond to a call under the above
circumstances.  Potential visual distance is likely to be 10km in normal
circumstances.  If an aircraft track is not going to get within 10km of your
track/position I would suggest chances of collision with that aircraft are
zip regardless of who has their eyes closed.

Multiple gliders responding to the call from outside this clearance range
will merely clog the communication channel and hide sensible responses in
the chaff.

Redmond


- Original Message -
From: Pete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, 7 February 2001 3:31
Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] Of airspace infringements and all that 


>
> Brave assumption... (brave in the "Yes Minister" sense). Do you also trust
> other drivers always to do the right thing? There are some real dopes out
> there, and some of them fly.
>
> Have you watched many power pilots "at work"? Ever watched one in a fast
IFR
> aircraft? Sometimes they just don't have time to look out. No, I don't
like it
> either, but if we don't answer radio calls enough to keep out of their
way,
> we're not using everything we have to avoid collisions.
>
> IMO it's far less work to respond to radio calls than keep up a sufficient
> lookout... better to do both, of course.
>
> "In 1991 BASI published a research report titled Limitations of the
> See-and-Avoid Principle. This report concluded that 'the see-and-avoid
> principle in the absence of traffic alerts is subject to serious
> limitations'."
>
> Anyone who still thinks looking out is enough, please read the rest at
>http://www.basi.gov.au/cavoid/seavoid1.htm
>
> On Tue, 06 Feb 2001, Quinn wrote:
> > I might fall into the OFITTH category, but my eyesight is still better
than
> > hitting range and I like to assume the same applies to the pilot of the
> > calling aircraft ;-)
> >
> > Redmond
> >
> > **
> > - Original Message -
> > From: Peter White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, 5 February 2001 8:13
> > Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] Of airspace infringements and all that 
> >
> >
> > > At 07:04 PM 4/02/01 +1030, you wrote:
> > > >   I believe any glider with any potential to be seen by the calling
> > > >aircraft  should respond on their own behalf unless a bunch of
gliders
> > are
> > > >gaggle flying  in which case one response on behalf of the group
should
> > > >suffice.
> > > >Redmond   *
> > > I would have thought that "any glider with any potential to be HIT by
the
> > > calling aircraft should respond..."
> > >
> > > Think outside your square Redmond and you might not get PENETRATED by
a
> > > propellor or wingtip.
>
> --
> subvert the dominant paradigm
>
>
> --
>   * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
>   * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
>   * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.
>

--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] BORING GCWA at Cunderdin

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

"I guess this weather will get to the Eastern State about tomorrow but then
it will be a week day!"


That's why the Canberra Club actively promotes Mid week flying.



--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] Computerised club flight log system suitable for pie-cart operations ?

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Jason - lets face it - we are pilots and therefore more interested in flying
than doing he necessary paperwork  - but it must be
 done. That is why we roster that all important, but all to
often not recognised for their importance during daily operations,
  the  "Duty Pilot".  On the paddock paper records please - the
batteries never go flat and you never hear the excuse that I
  don't  understand computers.  I used Excel for a corporate
gliding day once - I spent too much time in the pie cart
  maintaining records, and not enough time outside managing the
activity.

Alan - Not real keen on the idea of the airbrakes deploying 50km from
home just because I have run out dollars in my flying
   account!   Anyway would never happen at the Canberra Club
where most pilots of club aircraft are flat rate fliers, with
   huge smiles on their faces.


SDF




-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Armistead,
Allan
Sent:   Friday, 20 April 2001 11:19
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject:RE: [aus-soaring] Computerised club flight log system suitable for
pie-cart operations ?

Ah, come on Jason, why go halfway with this? Let's get rid of ALL the paper.

What you really need is each club member to have a magnetically coded photo
ID card, a reader in each aircraft, an airswitch, GPS and a transponder
fitted. Then you can jump in the glider (or tug), wave your ID past the
reader, and at the end of the flight the glider/tug will transmit all the
details - time, launch height, duration and pilot - back to the Club
computer, update the necessary logs for yourself and the glider, and take
the cost of the flight from your bank account and credit it to the Club's
account. Wave your card past the reader again at the end of the flight and
it will update your flight currency and endorsement status.

If you try and fly a glider you're not qualified on, or you're out of
currency, or you are due for a check then an alarm and flashing light will
sound, and the tow hook will refuse to open and let you get a launch.

If you are approaching  the balance of your bank account, a buzzer gives you
15 minutes warning and then the brakes deploy.

This system would also solve the Secretary's problem of collating annual
statistics for GFA - all automatically sorted and electronically
transmitted.

Gotta think outside the square...

Allan Armistead
Roads, Land Transport
(02) 6274 7315

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519.


-Original Message-
From: Dave Boulter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, 20 April 2001 10:03
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] Computerised club flight log system
suitablefor pie-cart operations ?


The one I wrote for Camps is good for on the field. But it is not the app it
is the laptop,trg of users etc is the problem. Good old paper is as good as
anything sometimes.

/daveb

Derek Ruddock wrote:

> Actually Jason, the system we use was built specifically to replicate the
paper log system, and to enable use at the launch site if required.
> There would be no problem with using it at the launch site other than the
ones we decided were
> overwhelming, such as security & the lack of power.
>
> In addition, it does have the facility to produce reports such as
> Tug usage
> Instructors hours
> Accounts for members
> The fact that we choose not to avail ourselves of these facilities is
another issue.
>
> If we had 'office people' I daresay we would also have someone to enter
the logsheets at the end of each day: are you offering to volunteer?  8)
>
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20/04/01 0:15:19 >>>
> Hi all
>
> Does anyone have any good ideas about any computerised club flight log
systems that would be suitable for pie-cart operations ?
>
> The basic criteria would have to be:
>
> A. Easy to use (especially in a large club where anyone could be called on
to "run the log")
> B. Low cost - obviously a $5000 notebook PC + $1000 of software loaded is
hardly an ideal solution
> C. Reliable - able to take some bouncing around from end-changes, long
battery life, line-by-line printout of transactions in case of system
failure (so that no data is lost)
> D. Maintainable - easy for the Club to change the membership list, a/c
hire rates, tug rates, etc.
> E. Portable - able to operate off solar charged 12VDC system or
re-chargeable battery that can be charged overnight using the mains in the
clubhouse
>
> My initial thoughts would be that
>
> (a) custom hardware is OUT
> (b) a PC of no more than 286 performance should be able to do the job (a
PC/104 style PC might be OK)
> (c) a laptop / notebook with LCD screen (even B/W) should be ample
> (d) laptop batteries generally last much less than an 8-10 hour flying
day, so connection to a solar charged pi

RE: [aus-soaring] Computerised club flight log system suitable for pie-cart operations ?

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

I mean, it's only a matter of time
before some government bites the political bullet and in the name of road
safety puts a transponder in all our cars, readers on the roads, and deducts
the speeding fine straight from our accounts (oh I forgot, it's not about
revenue).

Alan - you are full of doom and gloom today - just think what that will do
to the joy you have in your Porsche and I have in the
  GT4 - may as well sell our souls and buy a Falcon or Commodore.



-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Armistead,
Allan
Sent:   Friday, 20 April 2001 12:04
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject:RE: [aus-soaring] Computerised club flight log system suitable for
pie-cart operations ?

Yeah, it's tongue in cheek - but if I can't have a shot at my son
something's wrong. Beside's I owe him one for dredging up my
rope-in-the-arrester-wire incident (funny the things he remembers!).

But, seriously, the technology is there to do just that sort of thing, and
when you look back only 10 years you realise just how much things have
changed. I remember the Cosim vario (which made me laugh at Jason having to
manage when the audio on the B50 packed it in!), just look at the
electronics in gliders now. This aus-soaring group would have been
inconceivable to many of us not so long ago. So far be it from me to say it
can't - or won't - work out that way. I mean, it's only a matter of time
before some government bites the political bullet and in the name of road
safety puts a transponder in all our cars, readers on the roads, and deducts
the speeding fine straight from our accounts (oh I forgot, it's not about
revenue).

Meanwhile, enjoy the still relatively simple pleasures of unpowered flight -
it's one of the great joys of life.

Allan Armistead
Roads, Land Transport
(02) 6274 7315

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519.


-Original Message-
From: Derek Ruddock [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, 20 April 2001 11:11
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [aus-soaring] Computerised club flight log system suitable
for pie-cart operations ?


Jeez Allan, youv'e been reading too much rec.aviation.soaring  8)

Funny how the yanks always respond in a similar vein to even the simplest
query

(even if your reply was firmly tongue in cheek)


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20/04/01 11:19:21 >>>
Ah, come on Jason, why go halfway with this? Let's get rid of ALL the paper.

What you really need is each club member to have a magnetically coded photo
ID card, a reader in each aircraft, an airswitch, GPS and a transponder
fitted. Then you can jump in the glider (or tug), wave your ID past the
reader, and at the end of the flight the glider/tug will transmit all the
details - time, launch height, duration and pilot - back to the Club
computer, update the necessary logs for yourself and the glider, and take
the cost of the flight from your bank account and credit it to the Club's
account. Wave your card past the reader again at the end of the flight and
it will update your flight currency and endorsement status.

If you try and fly a glider you're not qualified on, or you're out of
currency, or you are due for a check then an alarm and flashing light will
sound, and the tow hook will refuse to open and let you get a launch.

If you are approaching  the balance of your bank account, a buzzer gives you
15 minutes warning and then the brakes deploy.

This system would also solve the Secretary's problem of collating annual
statistics for GFA - all automatically sorted and electronically
transmitted.

Gotta think outside the square...

Allan Armistead
Roads, Land Transport
(02) 6274 7315

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519.


-Original Message-
From: Dave Boulter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, 20 April 2001 10:03
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] Computerised club flight log system
suitablefor pie-cart operations ?


The one I wrote for Camps is good for on the field. But it is not the app it
is the laptop,trg of users etc is the problem. Good old paper is as good as
anything sometimes.

/daveb

Derek Ruddock wrote:

> Actually Jason, the system we use was built specifically to replicate the
paper log system, and to enable use at the launch site if required.
> There would be no problem with using it at the launch site other than the
ones we decided were
> overwhelming, such as security & the lack of power.
>
> In addition, it does have the facility to produce reports such as
> Tug usage
> Instructors hours
> Accounts for members
> The fact that we choose not to avail ourselves of these facilities is
another issue.
>
> If we had 'office people' I daresay we would also have someone to 

RE: [aus-soaring] Microair VHF Radio

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Sounds like the base station to me - how old is it?

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Pete Siddall
Sent:   Thursday, 31 May 2001 10:24
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [aus-soaring] Microair VHF Radio


>My club put one in their Blanik, and strangely enough, there's one base
>station radio whose transmissions it doesn't receive...
> .. I'll try to get an update on it.

Update: the problem was fixed by the factory. They tweaked the RF or
something, and now it can talk to everyone. It took (us) a little while to
solve, but the radio's great now.



--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] Microair VHF Radio

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Both Icom and Microair are good equipment, we operate both

However we have found that the Icom A200 fitted to both our Puchacz are
killing our batteries, the current required when listening is about  2 amps
(I hope that is the correct technical description), and that quickly drains
the glider battery.

Microair - the only problem I find are my big fingers operating those little
switches particularly in the Jantar in rough conditions.  I know how to fix
that - I must grow longer arms and smaller fingers.

SDF

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Pete Siddall
Sent:   Thursday, 31 May 2001 11:40
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:RE: [aus-soaring] Microair VHF Radio

The base station is a new Icom A200 (? unsure model number). It could talk
to everyone else: it was only the Microair that couldn't receive the Icom
clearly. All other combinations worked.
As mentioned below, no more problem since the Microair was tweaked.

At first we thought it might be the age old problem where the people in the
Blanik are having a nice time and "can't hear" the pie cart calling them
down so that someone else can have a go ;-)

SKF>Sounds like the base station to me - how old is it?

>>My club put one in their Blanik, and strangely enough, there's one base
>>station radio whose transmissions it doesn't receive...
>> .. I'll try to get an update on it.
>
>Update: the problem was fixed by the factory. They tweaked the RF or
>something, and now it can talk to everyone. It took (us) a little while to
>solve, but the radio's great now.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] Airspace changes

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Peter,
 I have 
seen the LAMP presentation too, and then tried to have some meaningful 
discussions with the presenter.
 
Todate 
I get the impression that their approach to this is a bit like a pair of 
D9's pulling scrub, I hope I am wrong.
 
SDF

   
  
  At the last qld RAPAC meeting on 
  the 22nd May, the LAMP (Lower level Airspace Proposal) for Australia was 
  presented again.  Essentially, it is back to the future like the old 
  AFIZ's but these are to be called DAF's (Designated Area Frequencies) or "Big 
  CTAF's"  with ATZ (Airfield Traffic Zones) over airfields, the proposed 
  limits of ATZ's being 3nm radius and 1500 feet AGL.  
   
  I have volunteered for the nitty 
  gritty planning for Qld. and have proposed (and favourably received so far) 
  that all gliding fields to be NOT in ATZ's so that we can remain on the DAF 
  frequency with the proviso that glider pilots and all pilots be educated to 
  minimise their circuit calls.  There are no mandatory airfield circuit 
  calls. Calls in the circuit are only necessary for separation once the 
  mandatory inbound call to a CTAF (at present) and airfield is made. 
  
   
  Any comments and requirements for 
  local gliding fields in Qld. please contact me directly at this address [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  Peter C. 
  Stephenson  
  QSA RAPAC Rep , P.O. BOX 
  3 - 30 MAIN ST.,NARANGBA 4504. near BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND,AUSTRALIA Tel.: 
  (07) 3886 6888 [Fax (07) 3886 6129]Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  A Member of the Caboolture Gliding Club  http://www.glidingcaboolture.org.au 
  Mobile: 0418 713 903(where Comedian Billy Connolly had an aerobatic glider 
  ride of his life) 

RE: [aus-soaring] Safety of flying vs. driving

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Who among the readers of this e-mail group really cares if flying is
statistically safer than driving or not.
Hands up all those who are suddenly going to give up gliding/flying (or
driving for that matter) just because government statistics have be juggled
to establish that one is more dangerous than the other.  Academically
interesting maybe - but will it change our behaviour?

Thought so.

Now think of this - If man was just inventing the car in 2001, do you think
it would get past all the safety rules and regs we have today?  However it
is acceptable that  we put people into metal containers (cars) , and give
them total control.. Then we force them all to manipulate these containers
down narrow, often poorly maintained strips of prepared surface, with
passing distances measured in feet not metres at closing speeds of up to
220kph.  Sounds dangerous doesn't.   Then think of the training, and
monitoring of standards that drivers are subjected to.  How do you think it
would go if our governments  suddenly decided that all drivers were subject
to a 6 monthly check, or a check at any period for that matter, and yes I
know  about the over 80's/85's.

Is flying safer than driving, I don't really know or care, I enjoy both.
What I do know is Pilots are better trained and prepared than the majority
of drivers and we do it because we love it.  A great majority of drivers do
it because it is the only way they know to get about.

I look forward to seeing you all in the air.

SDF

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of ANDREW WRIGHT
Sent:   Wednesday, 20 June 2001 16:24
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:RE: [aus-soaring] Safety of flying vs. driving

Well done Allan

  This is the type of evidence I've been looking for.
 Take the emotion out, put some hard cold facts in there and you will win
the argument everytime.

   I could now change my line to "It's "almost" as safe as driving to the
airfield"


> I throw these figures in for information. The basic road crash stats
> are correct, the calcs are done pretty quickly and bear someone
> checking them through to pick up any errors. It's quite possible I've
> dropped a decimal place somewhere.
>
> Road fatality rates for the whole of Australia for 1999;
>
> Total   1759
> per 100 million vehicle km travelled (VKT)  1.02
> per 100,000 population 9.4 (1998 figure)
> per 10,000 vehicles 1.5
>
> Source - RoadFacts 2000 - Austroads
>
> Using Bob Ward's figures, and with a little interpretation as
> necessary
>
> 2 fatalities
> 3,000 participants
> 50 hours each
>
> Assume average flight speed is 100km/h for simplicity, all pilot hours
> are solo (clearly wrong, but conservative in this context), and 1,000
> gliders on the register (I have no idea how close this is - I couldn't
> see any clues on the GFA site short of interrogating every club and
> doing an addition)
>
> Firstly on a distance travelled basis, glider km travelled are:
>
> 3000 x 50 x 100 = 15 million glider km travelled (GKT). So fatality
> rate is 2*100,000,000/15,000,000 = 13.3 per 100 million or near enough
> 13 times the road fatality rate.
>
> Secondly on a population basis.
>
> 3000 glider pilots and 2 fatalities equates to a rate of
> 2*100,000/3,000 = 66.7 fatalities per 100,000 participants or roughly
> 7 times the road rate.
>
> Thirdly on a "vehicle" basis.
>
> Now I haven't a clue here, and I can't see the numbers anywhere on the
> GFA site but let's say there are 1000 gliders in active service and I
> suspect that's pretty much on the high side. Never mind, I'm sure that
> someone out there knows, so just adjust the calculation with the
> better input
>
> 2 fatalities, 1,000 gliders, that's 20 per 10,000 "vehicles" or 13.3
> times the road vehicle rate.
>
> Now all of the above stats have different purposes (eg the "per
> population" is really only useful for comparing death for vehicle
> travel with death from other causes) and I'm no statistician and all
> too well aware of the "lies, damned lies and statistics" argument ,
> but by any of these measures gliding doesn't look all that flash.
>
> Allan Armistead
> Roads, Land Transport
> (02) 6274 7315



ANDREW WRIGHT

--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] Stop me if you've heard this one

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

I have it - I would just have to find it and scan it - 198?

SDF

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Patrick
Miller
Sent:   Monday, 2 July 2001 21:38
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:[aus-soaring] Stop me if you've heard this one

I saw this a long time ago and no longer have the original so I'll have to
paraphrase.

Santa Claus gets a visit from a CASA inspector. The inspector goes over all
his logbooks/paperwork etc and says "Well that all seems to be in order,
just a check flight now and I'll be on my way."

As they're climbing into the sleigh Santa notices the inspector has a
shotgun with him. He asks what it's for.

The inspector gives him a wink and says "I shouldn't tell you this, but
you're gonna lose an engine on take off!"



--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] funnies

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Jason,
   that reminds me of the day that one of your Camden Twr boys
contacted SAR because one of your gliders had made an outlanding.
Fortunately I took the call, ascertained that the glider pilot had advised
they were save, and were only asking for a ground retrieve, and this was
normal procedure.

You have a lot to teach some of your ATC's

SDF

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jason
Armistead
Sent:   Monday, 2 July 2001 23:52
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [aus-soaring] funnies

Heard at Camden, NSW a few weeks ago between the Air Services Australia crew
in the tower and a visiting pilot... registration details conveniently
forgotten to protect the innocent (I'll use ABC for simplicity)... banter
not exact, since I was too busy thermalling at the time to write it all down
!  I'm sure you'll get the gist of it ...

"Camden Ground, aircraft ABC , entering zone.  Please advise whether landing
charges are payable for aircraft landing at Camden on a maintenance flight."

"Aircraft ABC, I'm afraid the finance side is left to the boys in head
office, we just direct the traffic.  Suggest you write to them to work out
if you're going to be charged or not"

Silence for a while, then Camden Ground comes back on the air again ...

"Aircraft ABC, the operators down here have handed around the hat for a
collection, and we reckon we've got just about enough to cover the landing
charge"

Back came a rather sheepish reply from the pilot of ABC saying "Gee thanks"
and then a bit of a conversation from the tower about aviation not being
quite such a cheap thing any more.  I think the charges at Camden are just
under $7 per ton MTOW these days, so the pilot might have been up for
$10-$12 on top of probably several hundred $$$ in maintanance fees ...

The other good one at Camden, especially after a lot of the tower staff were
new to the area following some staff changes before the Olympics, was the
issuing of sequence numbers to the gliders after they called when joining
the downwind leg of the circuit (we have parallel runways, with
contra-direction circuits to keep out of the power pilots way).  Thankfully,
we've never been asked to do an orbit or two !

Cheers

Jason Armistead
Southern Cross Gliding Club
Note our NEW web page address http://www.southerncrossgliding.org/



- Original Message -
From: Terry Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] funnies


>
> I've enjoyed the various tales of aircraft radio banter as relayed to the
list
> from time to time, and also in the current round.  By far the best was the
set
> originally presented by Simon a few months ago, and also resuscitated in
the
> current thread.
>
> During the long hours on the various seasonal work on the tractors I
nearly
> always scan the local (SA) ATC frequencies with one of my amateur
transceivers
> which receives on that band also.   There are occasional chuckles to be
had,
> although patience is required.
>
> The most surprising episodes are the occasional lapses when someone on the
> flight deck manages to transmit the in flight "Good afternoon Ladies and
> Gentlemen, on behalf of your flight crew I'd like to welcome you aboard
flight
> 123 to ..." on the operational radio instead of the aircraft PA
system.
>
> In my casual listening, this happens probably about once a month
(hopefully not
> always by the same pilot!).   Usually the mistake is discovered and
rectified
> before the spiel gets too far down the script, but there have been times
when
> all other aircraft on the frequency('s), and the doubtless bemused
controllers
> have got the full sermon, with all of the grovelling and patronising
company
> advertising rubbish thrown in for good measure.
>
> The replies to this generous contribution to the information explosion are
often
> suitably witty, but one can but imagine the sense of acute, not to say
extreme
> embarrassment by the dispatcher of these tidings when he/she realises what
has
> happened ..
>
> It's probably a mistake that one would make only the once.
>
> Regards,
> Terry
> :-)



--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] funnies

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

I learnt to fly at Camden (power) in the days of Miro, and the little pill
box tower down beside 06/24.
Those were the days.

SDF

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Derek Ruddock
Sent:   Wednesday, 4 July 2001 15:10
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [aus-soaring] funnies

The controller was probably Gerry. Great bloke. Pity he's left now. He had a
most amazing memory for placing names to voices. eg on radio checks.
me: Camden ground, glider xyz request radio check on 121.9
Twr: Gday Derek reading you 5

Camden now just gets a rotation of Bankstown controllers who unfortunately
are not as au-fait with gliders.

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4/07/01 15:24:03 >>>
>that reminds me of the day that one of your Camden Twr boys
>contacted SAR because one of your gliders had made an outlanding.
..
>You have a lot to teach some of your ATC's

Like many people involved in power flying, they don't seem to learn much
about gliding from their basic training. However I found the ATC blokes at
Camden were pretty good when I flew there about 5-10 years ago... example:

In the course of some power flying training, I was going out for some
circuit practice one morning there. Like Parafield, Camden has GA
procedures. I seemed to be the only aircraft on frequency. ATIS said runway
06 was active, I acknowledged it in my taxi call. After pre takeoff checks,
running up the engine etc., I taxied to the end of the runway and gave my
"Ready" call:

"Camden tower, ABC ready, runway .. aaahh .. "

I'd taxied to the holding point for runway 24 - the wrong end. Whoops. Both
the controller and my instructor had been watching for some minutes,
wondering when I would notice my mistake... The guy in the tower helped me
out:

"ABC, clear for takeoff runway 24, then manoeuvre for circuits on runway
06."

Pretty flexible... there was no wind and no other traffic.

>From what I saw, the (regular) guys in the tower at Camden were un-fazed by
almost everything, a real pleasure to deal with. Including the time a hot
air balloon narrowly missed the tower, then "landed" and had to be packed
up on the main runway. Luckily that too was an early morning with no other
traffic.

--
A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform.

--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.



--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] Joyflights/AEF's

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Looking for a legal opinion here.

If the sign advertising the presence of the gliding operation has "Joy
Flights" or something similar, then I believe this is advertising flights -
therefore AOC required

What if the sign on the road reads "XYZ Gliding Club - Visitors Welcome"
Is that considered soliciting business, or simply inviting members of the
public to enter and have a look at the operation.
If a flight follows this contact, I would like to think the visitor is
taking the flight in response to their interest to visit  the club, not a
Joy Flight Ad.   Therefore it is an AEF

Serious answers only thanks.

Stuart Ferguson



-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Derek Ruddock
Sent:   Friday, 6 July 2001 16:55
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [aus-soaring] Joyflights/AEF's

Nope. Read my question again. The requirements are quite clear once the type
of flight is established.
An AEF can have a flight with no intention of touching the controls.
A joyflight can have a flight with no intention of touching the controls.
This is the reason I asked for clarification: how is one to determine which
of the above scenarios identifies that a flight is a charter rather that an
AEF?.
Take the following scenarios:
1) a person walking down the street sees gliders overhead and decides that
they would like to try it. they find their way to the field, make enquiries
and decide to take a flight,but do not want to touch the controls at all,
but just wish to enjoy the scenery and take a few photos, thank you very
much.
2) a person walking down the street sees a small billboard about gliding and
decides that they would like to try it. They find their way to the field,
make enquiries and decide to take a flight,but do not want to touch the
controls at all, but just wish to enjoy the scenery and take a few photos,
thank you very much.
My understanding is that, although both people wish to fly, and neither
wants to touch the controls, the only distinguishing feature is that the
person in 2) responded to an advert, and therefore this becomes a charter
fiight.

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6/07/01 15:43:01 >>>
>On reading Daryl Connell's article in this months comic re passengers in
gliders, there seems to be little distinction between joyflights requiring
a charter rating & AOC, and an AEF requiring a AEI or higher, and no AOC.
>The only difference I could ascertain was that joyflights had responded to
an advert in the press or by the side of the road.
>Is this the only distinction between the two, ie the advert?


There is more to it than that or we wouldn't be going to all the pain to
make it clear to all our members.

Charter - joyflight, going for a ride to see the views and experience the
ride.
Must be flown by a "Charter" rated pilot.(Not an Instructor or a Passenger
Pilot)This pilot must have a current medical.
The passenger must not touch the controls at any time.
the passenger needs fill out no documentation before the flight as they are
covered under the "Carrier's Liability" insurance each club must have as
part of attaining an AOC.

AEF Air Experience Flight
Some one who is having a flight and be able to have a go, t5hey don't have
to but the option is there.
Must be flown by a minimum level of AEI rated pilot.(not a Passenger rated
or Charter rated pilot)
Pilot in command must have control of the aircraft below 800ft AGL
The passenger or more correctly the student must sign off on at least
"Short term" GFA membership this places them under the GFA umbrella.

See your club's copy of the MOSP Ops section 6.3 of the blue pages for the
AOC requirements
Also section 5.2.3 relating to pilots and charter, and instructor
privilages further on.

Its basically defining the difference between a charter flight primarily to
transport a body and an AEF is a training flight as such.

Regards
Mark Morgan
Waikerie Glider Maintenance
Po Box 320 Waikerie
SA  5330
ph.  08  8541   2644
fax  08  8541   2761

--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.



--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

[aus-soaring] Gliders in VW Bora promotional material

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Many of you may have seen the photo of a Glider and Tug in the background of
a photo currently being used by the media, to promote the new VW Bora, and
wondered where it was taken.

No mystery, the photo was taken at Bunyan, the home of the Canberra Gliding
Club, and Australia's best Mountain Wave (Flights to Fl210 already this
year) on the June 1st this year. We were conducting an Instructor Training
Course, and the photographer was driving past on route to the snow fields,
and saw us operating, dropped in, and this photo is one of the results.
While the purpose of the photo, is to promote the car, who knows what fires
of interest maybe inspired by this photo to seek out a gliding club. Free
promotion, or is that a subliminal message?

For those interested in facts, the glider is one of our clubs Puch VH-GAS
and Pawnee VH-MLS is the tug.

Stuart Ferguson
President
Canberra Gliding Club.

PS for anyone interested in our Wave Camp - Sept 1st to  Sept 9th please
contact Les Kinsley our Club Captain, see our web site at
www.canberragliding.org for contact details.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

[aus-soaring] Flights to Fl210 already this year

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

On the day there were about another 4 gliders all above Fl150 - just an
average wave day at Bunyan.

Remember the Australian altitude record was set from this site, and we have
Australia's highest mountain just 40nm or so south west of us.  On a clear
day from 10,000 ft you can see the Tasman Sea, and both the NSW and Vic snow
fields. On an average clear day you can see snow falling to the west and the
surf (yes more wave) on Montague Island to the east, but I would guess most
of you would find that boring.


-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:   Thursday, 2 August 2001 09:59
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [aus-soaring] Gliders in VW Bora promotional material

>Flights to Fl210 already this year

WOW THAT IS ONE HELL OF A WAVE ;-)

World record in there! Did you meet Helios on the way up
;-)


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] Australian height records?

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Yes Rick Agnew is still flying -

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Michael
Texler
Sent:   Thursday, 2 August 2001 11:59
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:[aus-soaring] Australian height records?

Does anyone know where the following australian records were achieved? (?I
know that Rick Agnew was at Bunyan?) Why haven't there been recent records?
Are any of these people still flying?

Feminine OPEN Absolute Altitude
 V.A. Wilkinson 29/6/80 Libelle 201B 8175 m (26,821 ft)

Feminine OPEN Gain of Height V.A. Wilkinson 29/6/80 Libelle 201B 5890 m
(19,324 ft)


OPEN Absolute altitude R.Q. Agnew 26/8/95 Std Jantar 10058 m (32,998 ft) (?
I thought he'd been higher?)

OPEN Gain of Height L. Armour 7/7/87 Astir CS 7750 m (25,426 ft)

I couldn't find any Australian height records for 15 m, Standard or World
Class gliders.

Cheers,

Michael

Busy chasing a font ;-)



--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] Convection at night

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

I have heard the same thing said about "Capital Hill" (Canberra) while
parliament is in sitting.

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Wayne Kiely
Sent:   Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:38
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [aus-soaring] Convection at night


I have heard it claimed that it is possible to thermal over Ayres Rock
well past midnight.

Of course there would be no doubt as to the mechanism involved in this
case...

Wayne


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] Convection at night

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Stuart - my last reply was tongue in cheek - I didn't think I would have to
explain that.

Reality - many of us are, of have not been restricted to Day VFR operations.
In fact I did about 80% of my instrument training at night for four reasons.
Less traffic = less delays even back in the days when you could get a PILS
into Sydney. My instructor believed that night flight prepared me better for
the IMC world, it was cooler ( I was doing it during summer) and less
turbulence, or if you prefer less convection.

There you go I agree there is definitely less convection at night, however I
am sure you have seen thunder storms alive and well during the night. Often
but not always caused by a fast moving cooler air mass, TS = convection, and
if you have been to the tropics during the wet season you would have seen
the magnificent light shows the TS generate up there.

OK not ideal soaring conditions, but convection at night.

SDF

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of lost stuart
Sent:   Wednesday, 8 August 2001 16:44
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:RE: [aus-soaring] Convection at night

I know, maybe I'm a bit naive, but seeing we live in the world of VFR, how
would we know you can thermal anywhere at midnight.

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519.






_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

[aus-soaring] Bunyan Diamond Mine Open for Business.

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Yes 
that's right, it was another beautiful day at Bunyan just north of Cooma, 
it was cold and blowing hard, 
we 
could not see the mountains because of snow storms across that part of 
the area, yet the sky above us was showing all the signs, the wave is 
on.  
 
We 
were not disappointed either, one member went home this evening 
with his Diamond Height, while two others didn't bother going above Fl200 
- they didn't have to, they had been there before.  Pilots of 
the clubs two seater were struggling to stay legal (below 10,000) 
because the oxy fit is not yet completed.
 
If 
this sort of flying is what you are chasing don't forget our annual "WAVE 
CAMP" in just two weeks time (Sept 1st to 9th) - be there or read about it 
- I plan to be there. 
 
Stuart 
Ferguson
President
Canberra Gliding Club
0419 
797508 

RE: [aus-soaring] Pilot Qualifications

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Didn't know that the 4th edition GFA  Basic Gliding Knowledge, was a
definitive source of operational information?

Try GFA MSOP dated June 2001, Part 2 section 16 " pilot qualifications,
requirements and privileges"  for the GFA answer, remembering that your club
may apply higher requirements, but never lower than the MSOP.

SDF

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of David Long &
Cathy Lincoln
Sent:   Sunday, 19 August 2001 23:24
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [aus-soaring] Pilot Qualifications

>"B" Certificate
>Privileges and limitations
>May carry out mutual flying, subject to:
>  The other occupant of the glider holds a minimum of a "C" certificate.

My reading tells me two "B" pilots can carry out "mutual soaring" - not a
"B" and "C"  ???   eg 4th edition GFA  Basic Gliding Knowledge

Dave Long


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] Temporary disconnection...

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

ALAN  - STOP SMILING

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Armistead,
Allan
Sent:   Friday, 31 August 2001 15:35
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject:[aus-soaring] Temporary disconnection...

This being my last day at work - hence my last day with this email address -
I'm about to unsubscribe. So if anyone's looking to contact me through this
group, you'll have to wait a week or so until I re-subscribe at home. Won't
be next week I'll be too busy at the CGC wave camp...

Allan Armistead
Roads, Land Transport
(02) 6274 7315

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519.


-Original Message-
From: Darian Jenik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, 31 August 2001 15:14
To: aus-soaring
Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] Oxygen system maintenance.



Thanks for the info so far eveyone.  The bottle seems to be still under
quite a
lot of pressure.  I thought to turn the valve, scared the bejeesus out of
the
cats, and was left with a ringing in my ears for a while. (and an annoyed
girlfriend who spent quite a while coaxing the cats out of hiding, and
cleanin
up all the fur they shed(stress.))

So, getting the bottle tested professionally is one thing, what about the
regulator and mask?  Does anyone know if that needs doing as well ?
Visually
inspecting them shows they appear to have no corrosion but that seems too
simple.

Actually having someone show us what to do would be a big help, finding out
how
to operate it at altitude doesn't seem terribly healty.

Thanks again.

Daniel Byrnes wrote:

> Hi,
>
> There is an aviation company that does do the testing at Cabolture here in
> Queensland.
> Bill Crollick in the Kingaroy Soaring club got one of our bottles tested
> there last year.
>
> There is no age restriction as I understand it but the bottles have to
pass
> a pressure test and inspection. If your bottle has been left with nothing
in
> it for a long period then the will be a good chance it will be no good.
>
> Qantus will test the bottles as well but we had to ship the bottles to
> Sydney last time.
> At work I do not have Bill's contact details but I can forward them to you
> when I get home.
>
> Regards
> Dan
>
> Daniel Byrnes
> Project Engineer
> Queensland Manufacturing Institute Limited
> P. O. Box 4012
> Eight Mile Plains, Qld 4113
> AUSTRALIA
> Phone: +61 7 33640734
> Fax: +61 7 33640786
> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Craig Tuit
> > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 11:12 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] Oxygen system maintenance.
> >
> >
> > You'll probably find that pressure cylinders for oxygen are throw
> > away items
> > after 10 years,
> > I believe that Ansett Airlines or the like are about the only place that
> > will test bottles in Qld.
> > Please any one out there correct this if I'm incorrect.
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Darian Jenik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "aus-soaring" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: 31 August 2001 10:26
> > Subject: [aus-soaring] Oxygen system maintenance.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hi , does anyone out ther know/can reccommend where/who to contact
about
> > getting
> > > an oxygen system inspected.
> > >
> > > I am part of a syndycate that bought a glider a year or two ago
(Nimbus
> > 2c) and
> > > it came with a bottle, mask and regulator.  We were told it hadn't
been
> > used for
> > > quite a few years before we purchased the aircraft.  None of us know
too
> > much
> > > about these things and it has finally come to the top of the list of
> > 'things to
> > > do'.  I am assuming that a system like that which hasn't been used for
> > almost a
> > > decade will need inspecting as with most things aeronautical.
> > >
> > > Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated, as I am sure all of
the
> > > syndicate members (incl myself :) wouldn't mind soaring to greater
> > heights.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Darian...
> > >
> > > Darian Jenik[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Network Services - Network Management - Security
> > > Phone:  (07) 3864 5365  Fax: (07) 3864 5272
> > > Mobile: (041) 464 5365  Speed Dial Mobile:  
> > > ICQ: 126369847 - BAO
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >   * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
> > >   * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >   * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
> > >   * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >   * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
> >   * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >   * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
> >   * or with "help" in the body of the message for more info

RE: [aus-soaring] Downwind leg airspeed

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Having been brought up as a power pilot, and being a recent convert to
gliding, I was taught to add 1/2 the speed of the gusts to my nominated
approach speed when conditions dictated, i.e strong gusty conditions.  I
have always been taught that this is a pilot assessment of conditions on
each approach, not some hard and fast rule set in stone to be followed
blindly.  In fact BGK says " as a rule, ."  I don't read that as
laid in stone.

My understanding of  " carrying a bit for mum and the kids"  in gusty
conditions is to cope with gusts and wind shear. If the wind is a steady
20kts on the ground, and there is no apparent shear, the only advantage of
carrying 1/2 the wind speed is to give someone who has not appreciated the
significance of the wind strength, extra speed and therefor energy to get
out of a problem their own lack of situational awareness has got them into.

If a student or low time pilot is about have a solo flight in gusty
conditions, discuss the wind, the effects it will have on their approach
angle, attitude, and airspeed. Discuss the advantages of carrying the extra
speed, and how this must be managed.  A pilot is far better prepared for
flight ifs they remain flexible to change, because inflexible pilots soon
become stiffs.

SDF

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of David Conway
Sent:   Saturday, 8 September 2001 20:06
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:RE: [aus-soaring] Downwind leg airspeed

Hi John

There is no 'clearly' about it!

The official GFA standard practice for the last 10 years or so has been that
only safe speed above the ground ( Vs * 1.5 ) is set at the pre-landing
(FUST) check.

The circuit is continued at this speed until after the base leg turn, when
the allowance for wind shear (0.5 x wind speed at ground level) is added.

Refer the BGK 3rd edition 1993, page 56 "The Approach" and the 4th edition
1996 page 70. (it's been this way for awhile!) Also the instructors manual.

If you are adding on the 0.5 wind speed when you do your pre-landing check,
then you have not been following the GFA standard procedure.

This is probably because either a) you were taught prior to 10 years ago and
didn't change or b) you have been taught recently by an instructor / club
who also didn't bother to change.

The recent change back to adding 0.5 x wind speed at the prelanding check
occurred at the last ops panel meeting by a show of hands, by no means
unanimously.

I gather the bottom line was that a large number of clubs never bothered to
change when the GFA changed the procedure 10 years or so ago, and simply
wanted the GFA's 'official' position changed back to the way it was.

There was no sensible argument or analysis of the pro's and cons as far as I
am aware. The ops panel was unable to give me an explanation when I
enquired.

So we are now in the position, that for no particularly good reason we have
to change what has been a perfectly acceptable and (in my view) sensible
practice.

I suggest if anyone has a view on the subject you talk to your RTO and/or
email Daryl Connell [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] and let him know.

regards

David Conway




>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John
>Parncutt
>Sent: Saturday, 8 September 2001 5:29 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: [aus-soaring] Downwind leg airspeed
>
>
>When JOINING the circuit the check is FUST - Flaps set as required,
>Undercarridge down and locked and SPEED followed by Trim to that speed.
>The circuit speed must clearly be set at that point allowing for
>anticipated
>wind speed on the ground.
>
>Students should be taught not to vary that speed once set for circuit and
>certainly not to reduce the speed (which is minimum safe circuit speed) FOR
>ANY REASON WHATSOVER  at ANY time in the circuit.
>
>John Parncutt
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael L.
>Texler
>Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 3:25 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [aus-soaring] Downwind leg airspeed
>
>
>There is the recent directive from GFA that 1/2 windspeed will be added on
>the
>downwind leg, versus the common practice of added 1/2 wind speed
>on the base
>leg.
>
>Is this directive available electronically?
>
>Where is a transcript of the reasoning behind this paradigm shift? What
>decision
>making process was involved?
>
>Is this directive based on any hard evidence that it will enhance safety?
>
>I favour adding the 1/2 airspeed when joining base leg, because it allows
>more
>time on downwind leg (important for students).
>
>Private replies welcome,
>
>Cheers,
>
>Michael
>
>
>--
>  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
>  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
>  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.
>
>
>--
>  * You are subscribed

RE: [aus-soaring] Excel logbook

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

You 
could write your own - it's not hard and a lot cheaper.

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Patrick 
  MillerSent: Tuesday, 18 September 2001 22:42To: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [aus-soaring] Excel 
  logbook
  Does anyone have a SIMPLE electronic logbook 
  program written in Microsoft Excel suitable for gliding? The logbooks I've 
  seen on the net are all designed for power flying and I don't have 
  the Excel skills to adapt their myriad of columns to the more familiar GFA 
  logbook style. I'm still at the early stages of adding every flight to a 
  running total and my hours and minutes arithmetic is not terrific. The result 
  is a lot of pencil and rubbing out in my logbook which is looking very tatty 
  (and I'm only up to page three!)
   
   

RE: [aus-soaring] "New" Volkswagen promotion shot ......At Canberra Gliding Club, Bunyan

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Cath,
    we have a colour copy in the 
club house at Bunyan - would imagine there are copyright issues. the only 
reason we got a copy was he used our aircraft for the shot. As Alan has said it 
was not arranged, we had an instructors course last June on 
and the photographer was driving past on the Friday came in and what 
you  have seen is the result.  Don't know how good the copy you 
have seen is, the glider is GAS one of our 2 
Puchacz. 
 
Opportunities like this can only be good for 
Gliding. 
 
Stuart
 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Catherine 
  ConwaySent: Wednesday, 27 February 2002 11:04To: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [aus-soaring] "New" 
  Volkswagen promotion shot ..At Canberra Gliding Club, 
  Bunyan
  Where can we see this picture?  Can someone scan it?  I'm 
  then happy to put it up on a website
   
  -Cath
  
-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Alan 
WilsonSent: Wednesday, 27 February 2002 9:35 AMTo: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: Stuart & Kerri 
FergusonSubject: RE: [aus-soaring] "New" Volkswagen promotion 
shot ..At Canberra Gliding Club, Bunyan
The photo is of the Canberra Gliding Club's Tug and 
Puchacz taken some months back.  I was in the tug VH MLS.  Oh and 
there is a VW Bora in it somewhere...
 
The photographer had the rough job of 
driving the pristine Bora from Sydney to Charlotte's Pass to do 
some promotional shots. We just happened to be operating on the day, 
and spent about an hour aligning things.  He was paranoid to avoid 
reflections of anything and getting sunset.  We assisted in getting his 
desired shot and a bit of promotion also.
 
 Takeoff could not occur as shown, there is 
not enough runway, and there was photographic 
license. 
 
Things we do in the name of 
promotion.
 

Alan Wilson02 62316 404Would rather be above 8,000 
than on the ground talking about flying.See also www.canberragliding.org 

 
 
PS The Canberra Gliding Club 
has its 40th birthday dinner FRI 1 MAR should you be in the vicinity and 
want to be among friends.  $30 to club Pres Stuart Ferguson before the 
day pls  
 
 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Terry 
  NeumannSent: 26 February 2002 1:54 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [aus-soaring] "New" 
  Volkswagen promotion shot   G'day from 
  sunny SA, 
  Our local weekly Balaklava tabloid currently features a promo fill-in 
  on the "new" VW Bora V5.  Curious, since I don't think a new VW has 
  been permanently resident in Balak since about 1965 and the nearest dealer 
  would be at least 90Km away.   (This here is Falcon and 
  Commodore country folks .).   Normally it wouldn't rate a 
  second glance. 
  However the photo which heads the report shows said vehicle with a 
  glider and tug in the background, presumably awaiting launch, and an 
  attractive ridge behind them promising prolonged silent aviation at low 
  cost.  A pleasing scene if ever I saw one . 
  I'm curious to know if anyone can claim knowledge of the aircraft 
  concerned and the location.   The glider looks for all the world 
  like the Platypus (It's a sad reflection on my gliding currency that I 
  can't be totally confident about this - it's been a while since I saw 
  it).   The tug is clearly a good ol' Pawnee. 
  Anyone know anything about this shot and therefore able to fill in the 
  remaining details please ?? 
  Regards, Terry 

RE: [aus-soaring] Search & Rescue Charges

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Peter and all,

under current Search and Rescue arrangements in Australia, AusSAR are the
responsible body for gliders.
AusSAR  DO NOT charge survivors or victims families in the case of death for
any search or rescue action.

Search and Rescue is the task of finding survivors and returning them to a
point of safety.  A point of safety will be flexible depending on
nature of injuries.  That could be a township or major base hospital
depending on the condition of the survivors. It is not a free ride home.

Search and Rescue does not include salvage or removal wreckage. If AusSAR
task the Ambulance or Fire Brigade, AusSAR will pay. Most of us would
already be covered for ambulance via our personal arrangements, why pay
twice?  As for Royal commissions into a SAR action, interesting concept, and
I hope we never see the day.

Where does SAR money come from?  Consolidated revenue, or our taxes, once
again why pay twice?

To put you in the picture I am an employee of AMSA AusSAR, and consider this
report serious enough to report it to AusSAR management, which I have done.

Stuart Ferguson



-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Peter
Robinson
Sent:   Tuesday, 19 March 2002 10:43
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:[aus-soaring] Search & Rescue Charges

I just recently received my glider insurance renewal and whilst going
through the yearly debate of whether to fully or partly insure due to the
ever increasing costs, I noticed that from the next renenwal period there
has been an addition.
This addition is Search & Rescue, Wreck and Salvage, and Airfreight of Parts
endorsements up to $25,000.

It includes
- any costs from Search and rescue operations of the glider or occupants
- Salvage services
- removal of the wreckage
- Legal representation at any inquiry, inquest or Royal commission called to
investigate the accident
- Ambulance fees or Fire Brigade for the emergency callout whether or not an
accident occurs
- Airfreight of parts in the event of a claim

This new inclusion raises lots of questions about what I thought I was
covered in my current insurance (ie salvage and removal, airfreight of
parts) and an obvious push by the Govt to start recouping the costs for
Search and rescue and Emergency services from the pilot.

When inquiring about this to my insurer (Chamberlain Knights) the response
was that in some circumstances pilots had been billed for serach and rescue.

My decision to renew for full insurance or for some part there of gets even
harder.

Peter Robinson
VH-IUS

_
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] Proposed New Rules: Pilot Licensing

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Mike,
I asked a similar question when I first saw the proposal for the
recreational pilots license, and it was suggested to me that
recreational license holders who wanted/needed to fly aircraft larger than
allowed on the recreational license could upgrade. It was also
suggested that the upgrade may be cheaper than the traditional way with
gliding/AUF hours counting 100% towards the full license. Time will tell.

Slightly off the thread wasn't the (R) PPL replaced by something else some
years ago, and the PPL issued on completion of the
successful completion of the navigation training?

SDF




-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt
Sent:   Friday, 31 May 2002 16:20
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [aus-soaring] Proposed New Rules: Pilot Licensing

At 01:27 PM 31/05/02 +1000, you wrote:
>Are there any clubs out there that use pilots with a restricted PPL to
perform aerotows?
>If you are using a Pawnee or similar. you will be affected by the
replacement of the Restricted PPL with the new Recreational PPL then the
new regs come into effect:
>
>4.2 The aircraft must:
>a) be certificated for single-pilot operation;
>b) in the case of powered aircraft, have a maximum piston-engine power not
>exceeding 180 hp;

a) shouldn't be a problem. I don't think we are using multi crewed aircraft
for towing.
b)Probably not a problem for existing pilots as the intention is to
grandfather their ratings. New RPL holders might need a waiver or a special
logbook endorsement.
RPL holders will be able to fly cross country after suitable training in  G
airspace and even enter specific D or C airspace after training. Especially
as the high power aircraft is for towing the endorsement should come with
the towing rating.

Mike
Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
ABN 75532924542
Box 7474 Toowoomba M.C.
Queensland 4352
Australia

Tel 0746 355 784
mob 0428 355 784
0429 355 784
fax 0746 358 796

International
phone:int'l+ 61 7 46 355 784
Cellphone:int'l +61 4 28 355 784
  int'l +61 4 29 355 784
fax  :int'l+ 61 7 46 358 796

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
website:www.ozemail.com.au/~mborgelt


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] Proposed New Rules: Pilot Licensing

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Thanks John - I upgraded beyond the PPL back in the 70's, and it is a long
time since I have hung round flying schools
drinking strong coffee and listening  to some 200 hr CPL tell war stories
make a local hero out of him/her self.

I knew there had been change, there are some changes I just don't need to be
up to date with.

I represent my employer on the CASA Sub Committee writing Part 103 and 115,
and I have to be careful I only represent
the point of view of my employer. I am also a flying member of both the GFA
and AUF. It may interest you that many of the
CASA staff on this sub committee are also members of at least one of the
aviation bodies that they share the table with. These
guys are in a very difficult position. They want what is best for the
industry, but one wrong move and we, or our bosses finish up
at a Senate Estimates Committee hearing, and no one want to go there.

SDF



-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of John Giddy
Sent:   Friday, 31 May 2002 17:34
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [aus-soaring] Proposed New Rules: Pilot Licensing

I think you mean the "General Flying Progress Test" or
"GFPT"
which is upgraded to a PPL on completion of the navigation
part of the syllabus.
Cheers,  John G.

- Original Message -
From: "Stuart & Kerri Ferguson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 4:48 PM
Subject: RE: [aus-soaring] Proposed New Rules: Pilot
Licensing


| Slightly off the thread wasn't the (R) PPL replaced by
something else some
| years ago, and the PPL issued on completion of the
| successful completion of the navigation training?



--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] Accident in the UK

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Simon

I TOTALLY agree.
I am trying to discipline myself (not an easy thing to do !) to
monitor the area freq. instead of 122.7 or 9 when X/C soaring.My recent
training in power flying has shown me the other side of the coin with
respect to airspace use.  I think glider pilots must come to grips with the
fact that we share the airspace with lots of things and that monitoring the
area freq. is another tool to minimize to chance of a coming-together
(combined with good airmanship/lookout/see-and be-seen.)

I carry my hand held on cross country flights to monitor the area
frequencies.
The small rubber antenna is not very effective in transmit, but I have found
it an
effective way to listen on area frequencies. A VHF scanner would do the same
job.
This allows me to monitor 122.7 etc with the installed radio which also has
a higher
output and an external antenna. This may not suit everyone, but it works
for me.

> This is the strongest argument I (personally) have for monitoring the
> area frequency when I fly, not 122.7 - and where I fly my (motor)
> glider, that is what I certainly do as a result - because I'm aware of
> the skydiving operations and other aviation around me, which has no
> idea that 122.7 exists (but that's a different topic altogether).
>
> In fact its only through radio monitoring that I have any idea that
> the two local skydiving operations exist at all.
>
> They aren't marked on the WAC chart; There is nothing to stop a
> glider (or indeed a light plane on the wrong frequency) being unaware
> of the skydiving ops around them.

They are on the ERC's, along with our gliding ++
>
> If you lived on the area frequency while soaring you might be
> surprised at the things you're otherwise missing (then again, there is
> a flip side - at times the only choice is to turn the bloody thing off
> after an hour of listening to jets being cleared every 3 minutes for
> approach into Melbourne, while soaring 80km's from Adelaide. I do so
> wish CASA's drive for economising hadn't lead them to interconnecting
> so many disparate area frequencies just to save a few $ on
> controllers' salaries)

Get it right,  AirServices employ ATC's not CASA.


SDF





--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] New Look Mag

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Dav said

"Well if the new mag has the same Range of interesting articles as
"Skysailor" I for one am glad I dont have to pay for it at the moment."

Dav, who is paying for it then, and when was the last time you contributed
an article?


There is something familiar about this thread, seem about as pointless as
thermaling in sink.


SDF



--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

[aus-soaring] Bunyan Wave Season off to a great start.

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

One look at the surface chart over the weekend one would have to suspect
that the "Bunyan Diamond Mine" would be working, and it was.  What and where
is the "Bunyan Diamond Mine" ?  It is the home of the Canberra Gliding Club,
approx. 100km south of Canberra or approx. 15km north of Cooma on the Monaro
Hwy, see page 9 and 8 of the current "Soaring Australia"

While no diamonds were claimed over the weekend, gold heights were there for
the taking with almost every flight contacted wave. The high flyers worked
their way up to Fl200 (20,000ft), the top of Class G airspace in our area,
in flights of between 4 and  5.5 hours. They only came home because they
were cold or approaching last light with their brakes open.

Pilots and clubs interested in visiting the "Bunyan Diamond Mine"  over this
season, or anytime for that matter, can contact the Canberra Gliding Club to
make arrangements. Flying is subject to a satisfactory site check, this is
not flat land flying. It's worth the effort because where else can you claim
your Diamond Height, see the Tasman Sea and snow on Mt Kosciusko at the same
time, subject to weather conditions?  Canberra Gliding Club has arrangements
with AirServices for access to airspace above Fl200 (Class C) and during our
wave camp make arrangements for access to Fl350, in what is normally Class A
airspace.

To find out more contact the Canberra Gliding Club, or to see photos of this
great soaring site visit the GFA web site, visit the photo gallery, and view
some of Rick Agnew's wave photos, including one taken from Fl330 during his
record making flight.


Stuart Ferguson


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] Puchacz mainwheel braking.

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Both 
CGC Puchacz have the original cable arrangement - can't help but 
would be interested in the result of your investigations.
 
SDF 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Roger 
  DruceSent: Friday, 21 June 2002 11:21To: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [aus-soaring] Puchacz 
  mainwheel braking.
  Perhaps some Puchacz operator out in the ether 
  may be able to inform me.
   
  I am looking at a kit from Tost for our 
  Puchacz which we have just taken delivery of.  This kit converts the 
  mainwheel to a hydraulic disc braked Tost 5 x 5 mainwheel and the kit 
  includes everything from the mainwheel up to the master cylinder.  
  The installation photos show the brake actuation being by means of a hand 
  control on the control column like many other gliders.
   
  Our Puchacz is a 1991 Puchacz and currently has 
  wheel brake actuation by cable via pulling on a knob on the left cockpit 
  wall, front and rear seats.
   
  Does any one out there operate a later Puchacz 
  with wheel brake actuation already by hand lever on the control column as the 
  standard factory arrangement?  That is, did the manufacturer change 
  the Puchacz to hand lever on the control column at a later 
  stage? 
   
  I like the idea of the wheelbrake lever on 
  the control column.  (I certainly 
  like hydraulic actuated disc brakes as the conversion of both out Janus B's 
  from drum to disc brake has been a very worthwhile modification.)  
  So with the Puchacz it is mainly a matter of where to source handbrake lever 
  parts to attach to the control column (which is aluminium - 
  curses).
   
  Thanks in anticipation of a useful 
  reply.
   
  Roger Druce

RE: [aus-soaring] RPL results

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Reading between the lines it appears to me that many of those that oppose 
the licence and the associated medical may be more concerned that they 

may 
not pass the medical, therefore loosing their flying 
privileges. 
 
The 
AUF has many members who have held Class 2 and Class 1 medicals 
but for some reason due to their life style OR no fault of their 
own 
have failed the CASA medical standards. The AUF 
medical standard is "sign a declaration to the 
effect that their health standard is equivalent to that 

required for the issue of a private motor 
vehicle drivers licence in Australia" While 
there are accidents in ultralight aircraft, I do not know of any that have 

been attributed to the health of the pilot. 
AUF flight instructors require 
a "Medical Statement" 
that they would pass a Class 2 (PPL) medical, apart from your 

local DAME who would be able 
to issue such a 
statement?  
 
Is gliding much different?  No, 
except members who are flying members of the 
public.  
The reality is that most of the members of the 
GFA have above average intelligence, they must to hold down jobs 
that provide them with the disposable 
income
to be able to afford to take part. For those 
who join and don't meet that standard, our club system of training and 
operational supervision soon weeds them 
out. 
Those who are left are 
normally responsible people who would not risk a flight if they were not feeling 
up to it. Despite our public 
image, we are 
really a group of low 

risk 
takers.   
 
Should there be a medical standard, yes I believe so, 
but the current standard as proven to be more than adequate. 
However members should review their medical 
on 
a routine basis, our health does change, and many a 
CASA medical has picked up a small problem before it became a big one. As I 
have grown older I have found  
I need to exercise more to maintain my fitness to 
retain my Class One medical. This level of fitness driven by my aviation 
requirements have some very positive effects on other parts of my life. 

 
Do we need a Licence?  No -  A licence 
is an administrative tool, however we do need a mechanism to recognise 
qualification and achievement, and we have that. Some people outside the 
GFA have difficulty understanding a system where their is no licence to 
recognise qualification, their thought process being imprisoned by their 
experience, people need licences to drive things legally, cars, boat, 
aircraft, trains etc etc, so why not gliders???   Those with tug 
ratting; how many times have you been asked my new members, how can I 
qualify to fly the tug? Until explained to them, they have no understanding 
that it is a different administrative "licensing" 
process.
 
If we are pushed down the road of a licence we (in 
reality the people who represent out interests) need to be part of that process. 
Problem will be, apart from the medical issue, a struggle over 
who has the power of administration, GFA for those other guys!!!  
Which way do you think our representatives will 
go??
 
SDF
 
   
 
   
 
 
   

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ronald E 
  BakerSent: Friday, 21 June 2002 22:57To: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [aus-soaring] RPL 
  results
  Results at 11pm EST 6 no, 29 yes, for a RPL. This may only 
  represent around 1.5% of total GFA membership but it does illustrate the views 
  of those who have responded. There is a dictum "If you cannot say something 
  nice, say nothing! If however you must say something, please make it 
  constructive. So to the several who have insulted me, please don't use 
  aus-soaring, write to me direct.  Cheers, Ron Baker. PS Sorry the results 
  are a rather late tonight, I had a dinner date with a young 
lady.

RE: Fw: [aus-soaring] Rec License

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Graeme - Change your Accountant quickly

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Graeme Cant
Sent:   Sunday, 23 June 2002 21:38
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: Fw: [aus-soaring] Rec License

>From: "David Long &/or Cathy Lincoln" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>However, for motor vehicle licences your doctor is able to charge a
>Medicare
>rebate.  Unlike any aviation medical they perform, DAME or not.

That's not the best of it, Dave.  Not only is there no Medicare rebate, but
if you hold a professional licence, the ATO don't allow it as a work-related
deduction.  It's not an expense '...necessarily incurred in the production
of assessable income...'  D'oh?

The ATO say it's a private medical expense!

Graeme Cant

>
>Dave Long
>GGC
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Graeme Cant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > Self-certification.  No more than a driving licence.
>
>
>
>--
>   * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
>   * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
>   * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.
>





Graeme Cant







_
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] Discus A for sale

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Matt - you forgot the most important detail - HOW MUCH ??

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Matt Anglim
Sent:   Thursday, 4 July 2002 13:31
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:[aus-soaring] Discus A for sale

Discus A for sale.
Excellent condition.
Built 1994.
Approx 1500hrs, 400 launches.
Cambridge S-Nav & GPS-NAV.
Sage Vario & Becker radio.
Parachute & tow out gear.
Excellent trailer.

Matt
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ph: 07 55207504



_
Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] Passenger Sues after Gliding Mishap

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Maybe we should all sue the legal profession for the reduced quality of life
we are all experiencing
due to the explosion of "public liability" claims.  May have a problem
finding a legal beagle to take that
one on

I was recently told of a young couple in Qld, just 24 and 26,  who had paid
off their first home and were moving
to acreage. They were able to afford this because they had both made
successful claims against businesses on whose
property they had both sustained injuries.  Apparently the message their
peers are receiving is, be careless, get injured,
make a successful claim, and get ahead. And we wonder why there is a
problem?

SDF

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Patrick
Miller
Sent:   Friday, 12 July 2002 22:27
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [aus-soaring] Passenger Sues after Gliding Mishap

At 12:14 PM 12/07/2002 +1000, Peter Henderson wrote:
>This litigation situation is getting completely out of hand.  Is there no
>such thing as plain bad luck anymore?   Surely this is just an
>opportunistic grab for money.   The full report that Mark points to, makes
>for pretty sick reading.


Makes me think though. In my time I've witnessed a couple of bad traffic
accidents. Rather than count myself lucky I wasn't injured, and rather than
feel upset for the victims and their families, I should have realised that
I've been traumatised for life and I should be getting some compensation
for the healthy fear (caution) I now have of bad traffic situations. I
should never have been put in that position and someone should pay!

And another thing, seeing the injury James Hird suffered has caused a
lessened enjoyment of football. And knowing people die of old age every day
has absolutely destroyed my zest for life. I think only lots of money will
fix me. Don't make me drag you all through the courts - I'll accept a
reasonable settlement!




--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

[aus-soaring] Canberra Gliding Club - Wave Camp 2002 report.

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

In 
short - no wave to date.
 
What 
is happening? - well it may surprise 
you, beautiful late winter 
thermals.  
 
Today (Tuesday) dawned foggy and cold then cleared into what can only 
be described as a perfect 
day.
Wind L/V - Cloud few - 
Thermals everywhere.  

 
The shortest 
flight, apart from one cut short due to battery failure, was about 2.5 hours with 
many achieving flights in 
excess of 3 hours in fantastic late 
winter weather. 12 gliders launched 
and approx 34 glider hours were 
flown from Bunyan. Apart from some great flying, pilots 
were also able to enjoy great views of both the NSW Snow fields 
and the Tasman Sea in the clear dry air. Where else can you enjoy that 
experience?
 
What were you doing 
today?
 
Stuart 
Ferguson
Pres. Canberra Gliding 
Club  

RE: [aus-soaring] Data Logger suitable for badge flights attachable to a Magellan 315

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Mike and Jason,

my EW manual advises that the D model has 128Kb Static RAM, and can be
adjusted to take samples from between 1 to 999 seconds apart. It also
advises that I can expect up to 50 hours of battery depending on
temperature.

In a section on memory the manual advises that the D will hold approx.
44,000 samples, recording pressure only, or 22,000 samples recording both
GPS and pressure altitude. The section also provides what it calls a rough
guide to recording times, and using a 4 second sample rate they claim 48
hours recording pressure altitude only or 24 hours recording pressure
altitude and GPS data.

In a section headed "IGC approval" they refer readers to a document called
"IGC APPROVAL FOR EWFR A B C AND D GNSS FLIGHT RECORDERS FOR BADGE FLIGHTS
UP TO AND INCLUDING DIAMONDS ISSUE 3 DATED 29 Jan 99".   I don't think you
would find the answer to why the unit can't be used to claim 500+ flights in
that document.

Stuart

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:owner-aus-soaring@;lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Jason
Armistead
Sent:   Wednesday, 23 October 2002 11:03
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [aus-soaring] Data Logger suitable for badge flights
attachable to a Magellan 315

Mike

Obvious question - why can't it be used for a 1000 km flight ?  Memory
capacity ?

Jason

At 10:53 AM 23/10/2002 +1000, you wrote:
>At 09:26 AM 23/10/02 +1000, you wrote:
> >   Has anyone on this list have one of  these for sale or recommend one?
> >Replies to me please at [EMAIL PROTECTED]   TIA. PeterS
>
>The only one I know of is the EW Model D I think it is. You can only use
>for up to and including the 500k not the 1000k.
>
>Mike
>Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
>phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
>fax   Int'l + 61 746 358796
>cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
>   Int'l + 61 429 355784
>email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>website: www.borgeltinstruments.com
>
>
>--
>   * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
>   * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
>   * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] Fantastic Soaring at Temora

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Jason,
  why wait to next year - there are still 357 days left in this one?

If time is short this summer, plan one week at the Bunyan wave camp, and a
week at
Narromine Cup week.

SDF

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jason
Armistead
Sent:   Wednesday, 8 January 2003 15:33
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [aus-soaring] Fantastic Soaring at Temora

Drew

I'm sure more than a few of us would love to see the IGC trace file from
Dave's datalogger / GPS for that flight.  Perhaps, if Dave is willing (and
once it's confirmed), you could get it posted on the Canberra GC web site ?

This summer, I was happy just to have achieved my Silver C requirements at
Southern Cross Gliding Club's camp Forbes, including a 6 hr 13 minute flight
for his Silver Duration - next year, I'm a looking for GOLD !!!

PS: It was nice to chat with some of the Canberra folk on 122.7 (incl
DeVilliers and Fox in XQC) and see some of the gliders, including IR, out on
task in the skies above Forbes.

Cheers

Jason Armistead


> WOO HOO! - GREAT SOARING AT TEMORA – 1000 KM+
>
> Hi folks!  Just letting you know that the soaring here at Temora has
> been just great!  Canberra GC, Bathurst GC and various visitors have
> made some great flights over the last couple of days.
>
> Canberra GC pilots have enjoyed some outstanding flights.
>
> The outstanding flight was Dave Pietsch’s 1011 km flight in his ASW
> 20 ZZ – Temora a/d – Corowa a/d – Tottenham a/d –
Narrandera a/d –
> Temora a/d.  He started at 1101, headed south to Corowa where
> conditions were a bit lower and slower than local Temora, but got
> high near Coolamon and scorched up to Tottenham, just getting in and
> out of the turnpoint before the overdeveloping clouds dropped heavy
> rain.  From there he stayed high, getting up to 16200ft on the
> Narrandera leg, then from abeam Wyalong at 14000 slowly descended to
> the last turnpoint.  On the homeward leg he worked a late thermal
> for half an hour, until he had 20:1 glideslope.  There were many
> broad smiles when he landed at 1945.  A fabulous effort Dave!
Congratulations!
>
> Congratulations and commiserations also to Col Vassarotti who was
> flying Discus D1 on the same task, but arrived Tottenham slightly
> later, encountering hail at 12000ft and impenetrable storm
> conditions.  Col managed a highly creditable 800 km plus!
>
> Robert Percival had a very long day in his Libelle – Temora a/d
–
> Cootamundra a/d – Tomingley – Hilston – Temora –
over 750 km.  He
> wafted home on the breeze at about 2030, with a tired and satisfied
> smile on his dial.
>
> Norm Sanders took our Jantar Std 2 CQT on a dash up to Narromine and
> back, 507 km, also beating the storm conditions.  That gives Norm
> his diamond distance!
>
> Les Kinsley in Open Libelle IR roared around a late afternoon 511 km
> task in under 4.5 hours, Temora – Forbes – Rankin Springs
– Junee –
> Temora.  That was a top effort!
>
> Even our humble two seater trainers got into the act!  John Thomson
> and Stu Ferguson managed an FAI 326 km triangle – Temora –
Caragabal
> – Moombooldool – Old Junee – Temora, and then stayed up
for 6 hours
> just for fun as the sky was going gangbusters.
>
> Lloyd Bungey (Corowa GC) took his PIK 20E from Corowa to Forbes,
> various towns and landed Temora having covered 615 km.  Richard Bull
> from Bathurst GC also achieved an excellent 627 task – Temora a/d
–
> Hillston a/d – Condoblin a/d – Junee silo – Temora a/d.
>
> Yours truly Drew McKinnie managed a personal best the previous day,
>  516 km diamond distance and third diamond -  Temora – The Rock silo
> – Garema silo – Coolamon silo – Temora a/d.  Many smiles
and much
> relief at finally getting an official 500 done.
>
> Someone has to do it, and I’m sure glad we’ve been part of
this
> magic soaring season.
>
> --
>   * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
>   * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
>   * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.




--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.


--
  * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list.
  * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message
  * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.

RE: [aus-soaring] How are our Canberra mates doing

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

All,
 I would like to say thanks to 
all our aus-soaring friends for their contact and expressions of concern 
about the welfare Canberra members over the past  few days - some of 
you via this page, others directly via phone and/or e-mail.  As you 
know all Canberra Gliding Club members are OK, no one lost there home, 
however some had very close calls. One member remains without power, 
phone or gas, with his home surrounded by burnt out remains of what were once 
very nice homes. I can not account for all non CGC members living in 
Canberra.
 
 Life is slowly returning to normal for most of 
us, however everyone is still shell shocked. Local visibility varies from 
between 500 to 5000m in smoke most of the day as a reminder that the fires 
are still about the place.   
 
Thanks 
to Drew and Alan for keeping you informed while was without 
power.
 
Stuart 
Ferguson
Pres.
Canberra Gliding Club.
 
 

   
   
   

RE: [aus-soaring] Not gliding but 4x4's

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

I'm 
with you Bob - Subaru "All Wheels Drives" best of all 
worlds.
Mine 
is a Forester GT.
 
SDF

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of 
  wendoureSent: Saturday, 25 January 2003 10:34To: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] Not 
  gliding but 4x4's
  What do I think ? 
  I think you have too much time on your hands. Or 
  perhaps this crap originates in the boss's time !
  Bob Ward
  Subaru Outback (My third)
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Christopher Mc Donnell 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 9:08 
PM
Subject: [aus-soaring] Not gliding but 
4x4's

This is the largest mailing list I belong to so I 
thought I would take a sample opinion from it.
 
Accepting that it is a given that :
 
1. 4x4's are not as safe as cars for their 
occupants.
2. Occupants of cars they hit are at greater 
risk.
3. They use a greater amount of fossil fuels.(gas 
guzzlers)
4. They cause problems with visibility when driving 
and parking.
5. A lot of etc.'s that others could add.
 
What do you think of a bumper sticker that reads? 
:
 
IMAGE PROBLEM?  LOW SELF ESTEEM?  GET 
A 4X4!
 
Those who have objectivly assessed that they need a 
4x4 please also feel free to constructivly comment.
 
Subjective I know, but I have noticed over 20 years 
that a lot of the "wannabe's" that turn up for TIF's, and you 
never see again, drive the things. They also seem to cause the most problems 
on the day. 
 
Christopher McDonnell"Womma Mu Kurta"Mount 
Barker SpringsSouth Australia61 8  8391 0482
VH-GQG
 
 
 

[aus-soaring] Blanik L-13 For Sale

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

 



Blaniik sale .doc
Description: MS-Word document

RE: [aus-soaring] Not gliding but 4x4's

[Stuart & Kerri Ferguson]

Title: RE: [aus-soaring] Not gliding but 4x4's



Simon,
  it sure has (or 
that is what I told my wife when I ordered mine).
They 
make great platform for towing Glider Trailers, 
Good 
Power and Torque, Good ground clearance, self levelling suspension and 

plenty 
of room.  The trailer is the limiting factor on a 
retrieve. 
 
They 
are also have good fuel economy and fun to drive, but that part has nothing to 
do 
with 
gliding.
 
SDF  

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Simon 
  HackettSent: Saturday, 25 January 2003 19:42To: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [aus-soaring] Not 
  gliding but 4x4's
  Heh, 'snap'. Gotta love the Forester GT's, eh?  I love mine.
  
  Not that any of this has much to do with soaring :)
  
  Simon
  
  At 11:11 AM +1100 25/1/03, Stuart & Kerri Ferguson wrote:
  I'm 
with you Bob - Subaru "All Wheels Drives" best of all 
  worlds.
  Mine 
is a Forester GT.
   
  SDF
-Original 
  Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of 
  wendoureSent: Saturday, 25 January 2003 10:34To: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] 
  Not gliding but 4x4's
What do I think ?
I think you have too much time on 
  your hands. Or perhaps this crap originates in the boss's time 
!
Bob Ward
Subaru Outback (My third)
  - Original Message -
  From: Christopher Mc 
  Donnell
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 9:08 PM
  Subject: [aus-soaring] Not gliding but 
  4x4's
  
  This is the largest mailing list I belong 
to so I thought I would take a sample opinion from it.
   
  Accepting that it is a given that 
  :
   
  1. 4x4's are not as safe as cars for their 
occupants.
  2. Occupants of cars they hit are at 
greater risk.
  3. They use a greater amount of fossil 
fuels.(gas guzzlers)
  4. They cause problems with visibility when 
driving and parking.
  5. A lot of etc.'s that others could 
add.
   
  What do you think of a bumper sticker that 
reads? :
   
  IMAGE PROBLEM?  LOW SELF 
ESTEEM?  GET A 4X4!
   
  Those who have objectivly assessed that 
they need a 4x4 please also feel free to 
constructivly comment.
   
  Subjective I know, but I have noticed over 
20 years that a lot of the "wannabe's" that turn up for TIF's, 
and you never see again, drive the things. They also seem to cause the 
most problems on the day. 
   
  Christopher McDonnell"Womma Mu 
Kurta"Mount Barker SpringsSouth Australia61 8  8391 
0482
  VH-GQG
   
   
   
  
  -- 

  Simon Hackett, Technical Director, Internode Systems Pty LtdLevel 
  3, 132 Grenfell St [PO Box 284, Rundle Mall], Adelaide, SA 5000 
  AustraliaEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Web: 
  http://www.on.netPhone: 
  +61-8-8228-2999  Fax: 
  +61-8-8235-6999

RE: [Aus-soaring] A NEW APPROACH TO GFA PROMOTION & MEMBERSHIP??

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Guys,

   I
applaud most of the ideas that are being put forward, and I also read Terry’s
articles 

in Soaring Australia, more good material. 
However there is a roadblock in implementing these 

great ideas and that is the base culture
within our clubs.   I have heard and observed an undercurrent 

that clearly demonstrates that some of the
people who man our clubs duty crews believe they don’t 

have to change their ways, that visitors
are a pain in the bum and the club is for members not visitors 

etc. How do we over come this?

 

We don’t pay these people, they are
our volunteers, and we need them. They are also our shop front.

Recently I arranged to have both Polo T
shirts and Chambray Shirts with our club logo on the chest for 

club members, and encouraged all instructors,
and duty pilots to buy at least one be worn when on duty 

(you have to wear something) to give our
team a professional look - uptake was approx 15%.  

 

Money will not improve this; the question on
my mind is what will? 

 

SDF  

  

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Terry Neumann
Sent: Tuesday, 30 August 2005
10:54 AM
To: Discussion
 of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] A NEW
APPROACH TO GFA PROMOTION & MEMBERSHIP??



 

Geoff Kidd wrote:



<>See http://www.glidingmagazine.com/FeatureArticle.asp?id=485
for the NZ article titled "Membership: It’s not a pretty
picture". 

It may however be totally
accurate - for here - as well as for New Zealand.

That's the scary thing about writing out a blank cheque for a group of
consultants, as some are advocating.   Some 100+K$ later they will
almost certainly come up with the conclusion that gliding doesn't really
interest, much less excite the general population, and that other
"competing" pastimes come easier and/or cheaper.

We already know that, and it hasn't cost us anything (in monetary terms).

One of the things that the combined magazine should have taught us is that
gliding is pricing itself out of the sporting aviation scene, or at least
putting itself at the higher end of the options.   Compare the prices in
the hang gliding classifieds with those of our kind, and you soon get a picture
of the relative costs of the equipment. 

Furthermore, the price of the basic equipment sets the base line for the cost
of the complete operation.  The simply fact is that a K-21 costs more that
(say) a Jabiru, and if you want to put an engine in the K-21 - surely the only
way to really set up even a basic training regime for the "Satisfaction
Now!!" generation - it gets even worse.  There isn't really much we
can do about that.

I don't particularly like to see this in print myself, but all the publicity,
promotion and research doesn't change the basic facts of the equation. 
Gliding these days is expensive; it also takes time, effort and a certain
dedication to 'make it'.   Only an enthusiast is going to see it
through - even to solo stage - much less to go on to greater things.

Most people will make easier and cheaper choices - no matter what we do, and
how many consultants we hire, and what they tell us.

Of course we still promote the sport we love, and  we need to do so with
the same enthusiasm and passion we show in our inner circle here.  Terry
Cubley and the others who are working in this area are doing well, and should
be supported with ideas and action.    However we need to keep
our expectations and ambitions within the parameters of our product.  
Almost everyone I speak to about gliding expresses the wish to "go for a
flight sometime".   However I just know that even if they do -
and I give every encouragement for them to go to their nearest club and give it
a try - that they probably won't be seized with the elusive addiction that
keeps the rest of us going over the years and even decades.

That's just how it is.

Now standing well clear of the fan  .
Terry


 

 








___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Decentralised Comp Handicaps

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

I have not looked for some time, but they were on the GFA web site,
along with a lot of other information about the Decentralised Comp.  

SDF

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony
Cavanna
Sent: Sunday, 4 September 2005 5:28 PM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Decentralised Comp Handicaps

Hi,

Does anyone know where I can obtain the handicaps for the Decentralised 
competition?

Thanks, Tony Cavanna.
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] EPIRB/GPIRB

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Guys – I am not supposed to make brand
recommendations because of my employment.

 

What I can tell you is that any of the beacons
that meet the standards are acceptable,

What may not be acceptable to date are the
prices of some of these units. 

 

One thing to remembers is that not all
beacons are the same.

 

EPIRBs are built for the marine environment
including the use of water as the ground plain.

ELT’s are build for aviation –
to be fitted to aircraft – the military also refer to these as CPIs
(Crash Position Indicator) 

PLB – Personal Locator Beacon –
for personal use – usually small with little of no floatation.

 

I have never heard of a GPIRB and I work with
this stuff every day – is this a marketing name being used for

a beacon with a GPS ?


 

To avoid any bar of salesman BS and to assist
you make a sound purchase decision go to www.amsa.gov.au
and 

read the material on 406 beacons and you
will probably know more than the salesman – and that can be fun in its
self

tripping them up with questions you really
know the answer to. 

 

Regards

 

SDF  

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoff Kidd
Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2005
6:37 AM
To: Discussion
 of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring]
EPIRB/GPIRB



 



Robert





 





    The AMSA website
mentions that they are lobbying for the international specs to be relaxed a tad
so that cheaper technology can be accepted, which will make the 406 MHz units
cheaper and smaller, but it's interesting that with the Feb 2009 date now
within the battery life of most EPIRBs, you need to buy an
imminently superseded unit to get a "personal" EPIRB or
reasonable size.





 





    If the GPIRB features
can be built in a smaller package it would be great for our circumstances.





 





Regards Geoff





 





 





 







- Original Message - 





From: Robert Hart






To: Discussion of issues relating to
Soaring in Australia. 





Sent: Tuesday, October
11, 2005 10:30 PM





Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring]
EPIRB/GPIRB





 



Geoff Kidd wrote:

> Does anyone have a suggestion on what is the best small 406 MHz EPIRB 
> (GPIRB) that complies with the post Feb 2009 requirements?

I am not aware of any *personal* beacons that meet the new requirements 
that is available in Australia.

I googled and could only find http://www.gme.net.au/epirb/mt400.php,

which is not a personal system but a vehicle system.

I suspect that as we track towards the year when the older system is 
being replaced by the 406MHz system such units will become available.

-- 
Robert Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533   http://www.hart.wattle.id.au

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring








___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] NOT a glider -was a drifter fatal at Byron

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Ian,

   Let’s
not loose sight that any aviation accident is a tragedy regardless which sector


the aircraft belongs to. Our immediate thoughts
should be with the family involved.

 

As for managing the media, we have
discussed this before on aus-soaring, and some 

believe it can be done.  Personally I
know that despite the best efforts of proactive 

media/PR departments some sections of the
media will continue to print and broadcast incorrect 

information; I see it almost every day. 
In this case is it the GFA or the local gliding clubs place 

to make a media release? I don’t
think so. In this case it the responsibility belongs to the RAA 

and or the local police, and we have not
control over how they manage the media.

 

In this case we have a tragedy that will
have fallout for all sections of recreational aviation, let be

honest most members of the media and public
bundle us all together anyway, we are the only ones 

who care. 

 

SDF 

 



 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Ian McPhee
Sent: Saturday, 22 October 2005
7:04 PM
To:
aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Cc:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Aus-soaring] NOT a
glider -was a drifter fatal at Byron



 



Contary to what was on NBN News Saturday night (chanel 9)
there was not a "Fatal in a fixed wing glider" and they showed out
roadside sign "Byron Gliding Club"  Immediately the
phones!! went crazy for 10 minutes.





 





To explain a Drifter from the other end
of field was seen to spin one way and then the other obviously out of
controll.  Giles Taylor
was on take off roll so I immediately asked him to look between the airfield
and the sea - he saw nothing the reason being it crashed into the sea leaving
no evidence.





 





There is no doubt in my mind that it was a perfectly
airworthy Drifter.  The way it was flown is more significant in the cause
of the accident I believe. Best I not say more except I believe his son was on
board as well.





 





It is terrible how the media got it so wrong - and all
gliding will pay the price!!  It looks like in future we should phone up
in advance on the news as this happened with a drifter.  Perhaps a club
should send a info Media sheet with a brief description of aircraft and a
contact number which they keep on file. That was my sister suggestion and she
worked in media for 25 years and all the reporters do is rush out the story.





 





we can't let this continue!!!   





 





Ian McPhee (skype   macca304)
Box 657
Byron Bay 
NSW  2481  Australia
Tel +61(0)2 66847642 mob +61(0)428847642
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
www.mrsoaring.com 








___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] NOT a glider -was a drifter fatal at Byron

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Chris,

  
Not what I said at all – please re-read my comments; as you know I am
also a member of the RAA.

 

SDF  

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of fibremites
Sent: Saturday, 22 October 2005 9:30
PM
To: 'Discussion
 of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] NOT a
glider -was a drifter fatal at Byron



 

 

 

In this case
is it the GFA or the local gliding clubs place 

to make a
media release? I don’t think so. In this case it the responsibility
belongs to the RAA 

and or the
local police, and we have not control over how they manage the media.

 

This does not imply that RA-Aus
is managing the media by reporting
the accident as a glider.

A sad day indeed.

 

Chris Kiehn

RA-Aus






___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Australian Flying magazine

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Never allow your self to referred to as an expert witness in court; you 
only become a fatter target for the opposing positions legal team, and 
their aim will be to discredit you. 

"Experienced" is a better term, hard to discredit that.

SDF

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Hart
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2005 10:37 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Australian Flying magazine

Kevin McGowan wrote:

>
> Having just read an article in a leading aviation magazine under the 
> banner "Ask The Expert" by Robert Hart I now wonder if as a level 2 
> instructor / chairman instuctor panel maybe he does know better than 
> the rest of us. Then again we have all heard the definition of an expert.

:-)

(just a correction - I am chairman of the /*cross country*/ instructor 
panel -  the CFI is of course the chairman of the full panel)

I hate the moniker of 'expert' - but it is a regular column in that 
magazine and that's what I wrote for. I hated the title of 'expert' 
being applied to me in other fields as well during various parts of my 
professional life in a variety of countries.  In every case, I am only 
too well aware that I do not know everything - because that is 
impossible. Just try teaching anything to learn how quickly students can 
push you to and beyond the boundaries of your knowledge! But then, 
that's what makes teaching so interesting.

I ended up getting hooked into writing for Australian Flying after 
hearing that the magazine used to have regular gliding articles. So I 
contacted the editor and asked if she was interested in more gliding 
content following the recent Super Dimona feature. If so, I was 
interested in contributing. After she had read some of my Alice 
articles, we talked a bit about things and the column in Australian 
Flying was the result.

Australian Flying is, I think, a very good place for us to showcase 
gliding to the rest of the aviation world in Australia as it is out on 
the news stands and is read (predominantly) by non-gliding people. I 
would encourage other people to consider writing articles for this 
magazine so that we continue to present to the wider aviation world.

Of course, we should also be writing articles for our own magazine as well.


-- 
Robert Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533http://www.hart.wattle.id.au

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] NZ Gliding Grand Prix Tickets on Sale

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Jason,
  Media exposure is hard to buy.

Did you know that the World Rally Championship "WRC" "Rally Australia" round
is on this weekend in Perth? The only reason I know is I am interested in
the sport. Those with "FoxSport" can see it, and Ch10 will go live to the
event on Sunday afternoon (and I will be gliding)  

The WRC is the F1 of Rally and "Rally Australia" is the Australian round -
all the top drivers and teams are in Perth - they have taken over part of
the foreshore area on the Swan River - literally millions of dollars in
play, yet east coast media coverage is almost non existent.

Like you would like to see the NZ Gliding Grand Prix be successful and get
widespread publicity, the reality is the event will be competing with events
that already have established media channels. 

Gliding needs a positive public profile.

Twice in the past week I have been asked because I was wearing a shirt that
advertised gliding; is there a gliding club in Canberra? Both these people
were very interested; one had been a member of Southern Cross in the past.

Idea

If every member of the GFA actively promoted the sport, wearing club T
shirts when out and about etc, and everyone had 2 positive contacts a year
from which there was a 5% harvest rate, that would be 300 new, active GFA
members a year.  

Is that too much to dream about.

Regards

SDF 

   

   

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason &
Jemima Armistead
Sent: Friday, 11 November 2005 12:01 PM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Aus-soaring] NZ Gliding Grand Prix Tickets on Sale

FYI

It will be interesting to see what sort of exposure this
event is able to give gliding in NZ and possibly Australia.


-Original Message-
From: Victoria Murray-Orr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2005 9:44
Subject: NZ Gliding Grand Prix Tickets on Sale


Please find attached and below information on New Zealand
Gliding Grand Prix tickets. 


Thanks


Victoria




Victoria Murray-Orr
the eveNZ consultancy
event management . pr . marketing


---
T: +64 (0)3 443 2700
F: +64 (0)3 443 2702
M: +64 (0)275 617 893
W: www.evenz.co.nz


 

GLIDING GRAND PRIX TICKETS GO ON SALE

Tickets go on sale today (10 November) for one of the
summer's most exciting sporting events, the New Zealand
Gliding Grand Prix in Omarama from 27-29 January.  Likened
to Formula One in the sky, the Grand Prix will introduce the
general public to the skill and daring of competitive
gliding. Spectators will experience the thrill of the
world's fastest free-flying aircraft racing head-to-head
at speeds of up to 300kph, at times just metres above the
ground.  The top 10 gliding pilots from around the world are
travelling to New Zealand to contest the title of Grand Prix
champion and take on the challenge from current world
champion, New Zealander John Coutts.  A giant outdoor
screen, fed by the most advanced TV graphics and live
helicopter filming ever seen, together with live commentary,
will keep the crowds in the thick of the adrenalin-charged
action.  In addition to the racing there's a host of
on-ground entertainment including wine and food stalls,
classic cars, arts and crafts and children's fairground
rides as well as aerobatic entertainment and trial glider
flights.  Tickets are available through the event's
official web site http://www.gp06.com/ or through Ticketek
outlets nationwide and http://www.ticketek.co.nz/   Advance
ticket prices are $30 for adults and $70 for families (two
adults and up to three children).  There are also a limited
number of three-day Flight Arena passes for $350 that
include behind the scenes access, gala dinner and pilots'
reception, daily light refreshments, separate seating area
and dedicated viewing screen.

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] Colour and other vision issues.

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Mark King wrote

And lastly its such a pity so many pilots my age were stopped from pursing
an aviation career in the seventies and earlier because of the misguided
actions of CASA in the past.



Mark,
 Back in the 60's and 70's you could get a CPL while colour blind, you
just could not hold any form of instrument rating including the Class 4, now
known as the NVFR rating. Then some time in the 70's or early 80's they made
it a requirement of a CPL to hold a Class 4 instrument rating. However you
could not hold a CPL or higher if you had any form of vision correction
until 1977 or 1978. 

Not being colour blind I do not understand the coping strategies colour
blind people must be using every day - however back in the late 70's I was
doing a night arrival into Perth and I had a friend with me board who was
one of these colour blind CPL holders - there were some red displaced
threshold warning lights (in those days both ends of the runways were lit
green) and this did cause him some problems understanding what he was
seeing. One example I know, and not scientifically based, but I felt worth
sharing.

As far as FLARM is concerned (I have not used one yet) aren't the green
displays the outer circle and the red the inner circle?  That alone would 
resolve the colour issue, along with variable tones.

SDF 

PS - have you ever considered how hard it would be for the audio impaired to
become involved in gliding?


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mark king
Sent: Saturday, 26 November 2005 5:17 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] FLARM @ KEEPIT

I feel I have to add my views on the comments 
flying around about colour vision and flying.

I am a glider pilot and a light aircraft pilot 
and I also fail miserably any colour vision 
perception test (and I was a guinea pig for the 
University of NSW over this enduring many of 
their weird tests in the name of science) and yes 
its a red/green issue however I have never ever 
had a problem with colour perception whilst 
flying over many years. Nor has any instructor 
ever commented that I had a problem. In practice 
none of the "experts" in this area have ever been 
able to show that a pilot with a colour 
perception issue was somehow unsafe or incapable 
of flying an aircraft in day or night conditions 
to the same level of safety as colour "normal" pilots.

CASA as it now is, years ago lost the fight to 
stop pilots with so called colour perception 
issues from flying at night thanks to the court 
action taken by Dr Pape. See www.aopa.com.au for 
his excellent paper on the history of the so 
called colour vision standard and his fight for 
fair play by CASA. The view of CASA up till then 
was that somehow it was unsafe for pilots who 
failed the colour perception test to fly at night 
but safe for them to fly around during the day or 
in thick cloud. You could be flying through the 
thickest cloud imaginable during day time but as 
soon as last light hit it was unsafe somehow? 
bizarre to say the least and with no scientific 
evidence to support their case which is why CASA 
lost. Dr Pape in his extensive research could 
find no evidence anywhere of any 
accident/incident being attributed to colour 
perception issues and this was not refuted by CASA.

The only restriction imposed by CASA now is you 
cannot gain an APTL (airline licence) and this is 
more to do with international bodies not agreeing 
on the standard that should apply then any 
problem with flying for the airlines. Pilots with 
colour perception issues can fly around at night, 
in the thickest cloud etc all in a standard 
aircraft without CASA or anyone else imposing any 
restrictions or requiring "modified" instruments.

Ironically now of course modern light aircraft 
are making ever increasing use of colour 
instrumentation, GPS etc and complete glass 
instrumentation is becoming more common. No 
manufacturer that I know of feels they have to 
make special versions available for pilots who 
fail standard colour vision tests or issue 
warnings or limit some pilots from flying these 
aircraft. You can get a Cessna 172 now with full 
glass instrumentation just like the airlines fly! 
I fly a GPS equipped C182 and its colourful 
screen is a joy to use not a problem for me.

To the point finally for those who have read 
through this, if there any problems with the 
readability of the displays on the FLARM it will 
apply to all pilots not just the ones with a colour perception issue.

And lastly its such a pity so many pilots my age 
were stopped from pursing an aviation career in 
the seventies and earlier because of the misguided actions of CASA in the
past.

Mark

At 18:17 25/11/2005, you wrote:
>Derek, Nigel and Dad
>
>Eventually I'm sure that someone will come up 
>with a system that mounts right on your glasses 
>a

RE: [Aus-soaring] JoeyGlide

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Nick,

 Congratulations to you and your
team for the innovative ideas and the use of technology you 

are bringing to Gliding Competitions. Along
with Queensland
recently bringing a sponsor on board 

for their signature event you are showing
the way and raising the bar.

 

Keep up the great work.

 

Regards

 

SDF  

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2005
7:54 AM
To:
aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: [Aus-soaring] JoeyGlide



 

Hi,

 

First of all, the tug dramas have been solved. Thanks
to those of you who responded with leads & ideas.

 

The competition itself starts this coming Saturday
(the 3rd) with the practice day, and runs until Saturday the 10th.
There are already several gliders onsite at Leeton, as you can see if you go to
www.JoeyGlide.com and click on the
‘Webcam’ tab. The intention is for this contest to have the best competition
website Australia
has seen. We have a full time web developer / photographer coming to keep
everything up to date, and scores will be published on the website (barring any
technology issues) following our evening presentation ceremony which will
happen at about 8:30pm – 9:00pm
each night. We also have an online database that will show the status of each
aircraft during the competition task. This can be accessed through the
‘ContestLive’ link at the top of the page. Ideally we would have liked to have
real-time tracking, but this uses the GPRS network, something that is rather
scarce in regional NSW.

 

As we have gained a large amount of sponsorship for
this contest, the best thing you can do the help the contest is to view the
website as often as possible, and show our sponsors that they have gained the
sort of exposure for their brand or organization that they have paid for. 

 

Thanks to all of those who have assisted.

 

Nick Gilbert.

 

 

 








--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/184 - Release Date: 27/11/2005
 ___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Re Glide NavigatorII, Pocket SeeYou and WinPilot

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

- become familiar
with whatever program you are using while on the ground, so in flight your eyes
don't have to hunt the display to find the information you need.

 

Condor will feed data to your PDA, however I have
yet to have PDA to accept the NMEA data from Condor, I believe this because I
have yet to set it up correctly. 

 

This is one way to practice on the ground.

 

SDF 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John
Wharington
Sent: Tuesday, 29 November 2005 5:05 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in
 Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Re Glide NavigatorII, Pocket SeeYou and WinPilot

 

There are a few things that can be done to make the most of the PDA

displays:

 

- try to orient the display so it is nearly vertical, in order to

minimise reflections from the sky/sun.

 

- use an anti-glare screen protector.  In my experience, glare is a

bigger problem than brightness

 

- opt for high contrast, black on white schemes.  Viewing terrain

in-flight is very difficult.

 

- avoid using polarised sunglasses

 

- become familiar with whatever program you are using while on the

ground, so in flight your eyes don't have to hunt the display to find

the information you need.

 

 

On Tue, 2005-11-29 at 13:33, Penedo wrote:

> On 11/29/05, Jim Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > Essentially all of these devices suffer from being difficult
to read in

> > sunlight . . . especially when we wear sunglasses . . .

> 

> So what do people do about this?  Taking off the sunglasses to
read the

> display is not an option.

> Do you just get something to shade it? Do these programs have an
option

> to turn to black-and-white display for better contrast or what?

> 

> BTW - Thanks for the hardware recommandations.

> 

> (My lost Lowrence Airmap 100 was quite readable under any
conditions,

> I suppose it helped that it was plain black-and-white display).

> 

> --P

> 

> ___

> Aus-soaring mailing list

> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net

> To check or change subscription details, visit:

> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

 

___

Aus-soaring mailing list

Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net

To check or change subscription details, visit:

http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring






___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] EW software not reading serial port

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Can anyone assist me.

The EW software I have including EW Windows Uploader does not communicate
with Com 1 (serial port) on my computer. I have had some success in
establishing connections at home but as soon as I get it in the field it
refuses to cooperate.

I have checked with the computer manufacturers, the hardware and supporting
software test ok. Has anyone had any experience or have any ideas how to fix
problem apart from putting the EW in the bin and getting something else? 

Regards

SDF

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] Fixing the leaking tank

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Patrick,


Thankyou for your observations from the USA. 

 

Participating in gliding the way we do it
is Australia
needs many resources including disposable income, 

personal ability, and most of all time.  I
believe it is spare time, or the lack of it that makes gliding hard to promote.

 

First of all people must have the time to
travel to gliding fields the closest of which are about an hour away of centres

of population, many are a lot further. 
We expect new participants to turn up early to assist getting the operation
going, 

and stay late and put it all to bed at
night – this of course is how we teach them about inspections, ground
handling and 

other small cultural things that make a
sound independent operator in the future.   

 

In the past we have relied on the lure of
flight to attract people, and it still does, but we need more.  Potential new
members 

will be looking for nice facilities (club
rooms) good clean accommodation, and somewhere they are proud to bring their friends


and colleagues.   Nice new aircraft
are a nice to have – however well maintained and presented aircraft will
do the job just as well.  

How people friendly are you launch points? Does
you pie cart say to new people this tidy operation – these are all first impressions.

 

This costs money, but it is an investment.  Some
quarters of the GFA talk about spending money promoting the sport, making videos


etc and I am not saying we should not
undertake these activities, however I believe firstly we need to examine why we
are loosing the 

members do capture, otherwise promoting new
membership it is like trying to fill a leaky tank before you have fixed the leak.


 

SDF 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Barfield
Sent: Monday, 5 December 2005 2:48
PM
To: 'Discussion
 of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Commercial
gliding operations / airsickness



 

I’m just catching up on a few older
topics. I’ll attempt to answer a question:

 

SNIP
-It’s all very well to want a commercial operation to fit in with the
time pressures you have Mark, but how much would you be willing to pay for that
convenience? - SNIP

 

I have flown at two commercial gliding
operations in the USA.
Years ago I flew at Caracole Soaring in California
(http://www.caracolesoaring.com/)
and I currently fly at Southwest Soaring in Caddo Mills Texas (http://www.southwestsoaring.com/).
Both web sites list their rates and, as a note of comparison, there is a club
slightly closer to me (http://www.texassoaring.org)
so you can see how much extra people pay for the convenience.

 

You obviously pay more for aerotows and
hourly charges than a club situation but that is offset by not having to pay an
annual membership fee. The extra convenience is important to me since I have a
90 mile drive to Caddo Mills which would make for an extremely long day if I
had to help get things ready in the morning and stay until the equipment was
safely packed away at the end of the day. You book a time slot, turn up, the
glider is ready to go, go flying and leave the glider for somebody to put away.
You only pay for the launch and flying time so even if the weather is
unsuitable for flying, you don’t have to pay anything. To be perfectly
honest, I don’t see how Southwest Soaring makes a profit because their
utilisation seems fairly low for the prices they charge and the money they have
invested in their fleet.

 

As a convenient alternative, I think that
microturbine powered trainers may revolutionise gliding training. If you had
something like this Blanik (http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/dg1000t-e.html#Jet-Propulsion),
you could book a training time despite lack of lift and not require many crew
to look after the operation. I don’t know how much the modification and
fuel costs would be, but I am interested in doing this when I return to Australia next
year so I would appreciate any information that people can offer. As a
suggestion to improve the fuel efficiency of the microturbine, has anybody
developed a microturbofan that would be more efficient at lower speeds?

 

For the airsickness topic, since some
people mentioned specific medications, I know some people that have taken a
drug STUGERON for flying and boating and swear by them as they supposedly
don’t make you drowsy. I believe that they aren’t available in Australia but there are over the counter
medications in the UK.
I am not a medical expert so if any pharmacists or doctors know more about this
drug and any possible dangers for flying, please enlighten us.

 

Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to everybody
on the list,

 

Patrick Barfield

 

 








--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/184 - Release Date: 27/11/2005
 

  ___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To ch

RE: [Aus-soaring] Fixing the leaking tank

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Mark,
 You make some interesting observations, BUT you have retained the 
theme of how do we recruit new members - my point is how we stop loosing 
the ones we do recruit?  

SDF

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Newton
Sent: Tuesday, 6 December 2005 10:32 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Fixing the leaking tank

Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON wrote:

> Participating in gliding the way we do it is Australia needs many 
> resources including disposable income, personal ability, and most 
> of all time.  I believe it is spare time, or the lack of it that
> makes gliding hard to promote.

As a community, we make almost *zero* effort to locate people who enjoy
aviation enough to _want_ to spend time on it.  When we inevitably
fail to find them, we rationalize our failure by saying that people
don't have spare time anymore.

... and yet surfers think nothing of spending the whole weekend at
the beach, or of driving 300km in a rattly 4WD to get to a beach
in the middle of nowhere which might, if the weather is right, have
the perfect break...

... and untold thousands spend their entire Saturday in winter with
the football club, or the entire Saturday in summer playing cricket,
with nights during the week for practice sessions...

Gliding's problems have very little to do with availability of spare
time, and lots to do with our total inability to select and recruit
those who *do* have the time, and who have a lust and joy for the
pastime.  As another poster said last night, we need to convince folks
that they're better off spending their recreational resources with us
than with the cricket club.

GFA membership constitutes about 0.025% of the Australian population.
Perhaps we ought to be aiming for 0.1% -- A tenth of one percent is
about 20,000 people.  Given the number of people who say, "Yes," when
asked whether they've ever wanted to fly, it ought to be EASY to find
that many people.  So what are we doing wrong that makes us fail to
recruit them?

We have constraints which we have to work under:  We aren't made of
money, so our clubhouses and accommodation *will* be sub-standard.
We need to be ready before convection starts, and there's a lot of
work to do each day anyway, so an early start *is* needed.  We want
to be out of airspace problems, so distance *is* required.  Those are
realities we just have to cope with.

But within those constraints, there's still a lot of room to move.

If we can make gliding *fun*, we'll get people who are prepared to
give it as much time as surfers, cricket players and football players.

Have a look around your pie cart this weekend.  Are people laughing,
mucking around like larrikins, having a good time?  If they are, that
vibe will rub-off on visitors, and they'll pick-up on the fun:  Good
times are infectious.  If they aren't... well, let's just say that that's
infectious too, and your visitors are likely to be walking away thinking
that maybe this whole gliding thing is a bit boring.


   - mark


I tried an internal modem,[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  but it hurt when I walked.  Mark Newton
- Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 - Fax: +61-8-82231777 -
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] The Future of Gliding Part 2

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

I chap I work with who is 50+ has an $80k + Monaro and a $30k + Harley
Davidson (according to him) and thinks Gliding is for tossers.

In his case it is all about image, and from my observations most people in
gliding are achievers not possers.

SDF  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Newton
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2005 9:41 AM
To: Derek Ruddock
Cc: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] The Future of Gliding Part 2

Derek Ruddock wrote:

> All very pertinent observations Mark, but I couldn't let this one go :)
> Although gliders are expensive, the recent climb of the Australian Peso
> vs the Euro have made gliders affordable again: We have bought 2 gliders
> recently, and neither was within cooee of the price of a house 
> (Where do you live)

Adelaide.

A new ASW28-18E is in the circa-$150,000 range.  Call it $170,000 if you
want a trailer to go with it.

A 2-bedroom house and land package in an outer-suburban housing development
could be had for about $200,000 - $225,000 in Adelaide a year ago.

So they're not exactly equivalent, but they're close enough for the points
I was trying to get across in my email message.  The difference between the
cost of a glider and the cost of a house is a multiplication factor less
than 2 (and quite close to 1).  The difference between the cost of a glider
and the cost of a  house is a multiplication factor closer to 5 or 6.

> Let's face it, when you can pay around $80k for a Holden or Ford,
> gliders seem cheap  

Egad.  $80k is what you'd pay for a 3-year old Porsche, or a brand new
SAAB, or two entire brand-new Hiluxes.  I can't imagine who'd pay that
kind of cash for a Holden or Ford.  What would you be getting for your
money?  A Commode with leather seats?  Yukko!

   - mark


I tried an internal modem,[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  but it hurt when I walked.  Mark Newton
- Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 - Fax: +61-8-82231777 -
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] The Future of Gliding Part 2

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

No and No - but he has had two hip replacements

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Derek
Ruddock
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2005 12:44 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] The Future of Gliding Part 2

I bet he's fat & bald...

Cheers
 
Derek
T: +61 2 9342 8241
 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus-soaring-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete
> Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2005 11:09 AM
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] The Future of Gliding Part 2
> 
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 10:45:50 +1100
> "Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I chap I work with who is 50+ has an $80k + Monaro and a $30k +
Harley
> > Davidson (according to him) and thinks Gliding is for tossers.
> 
> Thank you. You've skewered him beautifully. That made my morning :)
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] The Future CDMA service

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

CDMA coverage

It also has a great deal to do with the handset. I owed a Samsung CDMA and 
thought the system left a lot to be desired, poor coverage, dropping calls
etc. I now have a Nokia CDMA and coverage is what I require and expected.

SDF 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Newton
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2005 12:53 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] The Future CDMA service

Ian McPhee wrote:

> I heard about that and am horrified - went around tassie recently and the
> CDMA worked almost all over - my friend (ex telecom) phone was all but
> useless.  Is it time to contact Barnaby Joyce?  Notice recently Nigel
Andews
> had an old Hyundai CDMA and I asked how come you have that - He said "it
> workes everywhere and I just leave it prepaid" which I find has no time
> limit.  He had a GSM for regular use.

You'll note that CDMA coverage at the moment is inferior to the old
AMPS coverage from the mid 1990's too, so the disappearance of CDMA is
really two steps backwards, not one.

Contacting Barnaby Joyce will be of little value.  Barnaby Joyce's party
voted to privatize Telstra, and the flip-side of that is that Telstra is
now a commercial organization making decisions on the basis of commercial
imperatives, because that's what private companies do.  Folks like me
warned that this kind of thing would happen, and I'm sure there'll be
more of it in the future, but the kind of people who vote for Government
asset sales don't tend to take kindly to arrogant bastards saying, "I
told you so," when it all turns pear-shaped afterwards  :-)

For what it's worth, Telstra is currently engaging in some political
posturing of its own, and is attempting to make use of the aforementioned
commercial imperatives to get the regulatory landscape changed (and the
changes, I might add, will have the effect of making it even easier to
do this kind of stuff in the future).  Any public announcements Telstra
makes in the present environment really need to be taken with a grain of
salt.  We're all just waiting for the big ACCC smackdown, but until that
happens you can expect Telstra to continue to make irrational and
abusive threats against its customer base, then say the Government's
regulatory system is giving it no alternative.  It's all part of creating
public support for tearing-apart the regulatory system.  Don't be sucked-in
by it.

> Where do we start - what people want in country is a service and not bells
> and whistles and I understand GSM is not much use beyond 32km and besides
> CDMA does not interfer with aviation radio like GSM!

There are some technical and economic realities around telecommunications
which people in regional areas need to face up to.

They voted for political parties which would privatize Telstra after
swallowing the line that it was theoretically possible for communications
services in the bush to be equivalent to those in the city.  "We'll set
aside a few billion for regional telecommunications," said the Government,
"if you let us sell-off Telstra for ideological reasons!"

In practice achieving city-style telecommunications in the bush requires
massive, unprecedented capital investment.  And private corporations
never make capital investments without expecting a return;  And they
can't get returns in the bush because the population density isn't
high enough to provide the income stream needed to pay for the required
infrastructure.

So turning Telstra into a private corporation in charge of
telecommunications
in the bush was 100% the wrong answer.  If you want quality, you aren't
going to get it now.  Not from Telstra, anyway.

As I said above, you can expect a hell of a lot more than this in future
years.  There's no point crying about it now;  If Australia wanted the
public interest to override the profit motive in rolling out telco
services in the bush then it shouldn't have voted in a political party
that was ideologically opposed to public ownership of telecommunications
companies.  The bed has been made, now is the time to lie in it.

   - mark


I tried an internal modem,[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  but it hurt when I walked.  Mark Newton
- Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 - Fax: +61-8-82231777 -
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] When (or what) is an aerodrome..... ?

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Why are you guys trying to split hairs over a definition I am 
sure the people who wrote the procedures could not answer for
you. Most of them probably only landed on runways make of hard
black stuff (or other hard alternatives) with paint all over 
them.  In their experience aircraft do not land anywhere else.

SDF  
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Derek
Ruddock
Sent: Monday, 12 December 2005 12:28 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] When (or what) is an aerodrome. ?


It doesn't say that: 
It says that you can't take off and land at a place other than an
aerodrome unless it is suitable for the purposes of take-off & landing.
It does not allocate the definition of aerodrome to such places

Under your interpretation, most of the paddocks in NSW would be defined
as aerodromes

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus-soaring-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kittel, Stephen W (ETSA)
> Sent: Monday, 12 December 2005 10:34 AM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] When (or what) is an aerodrome. ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Leigh Bunting
> ?
> >
> >Kittel, Stephen W (ETSA) wrote:
> >
> >>  I think for the purposes of the radio procedures your
> >paddock becomes
> >> an aerodrome when you begin to take off from (or land in) it!
> >
> >So every ag-pilot in Australia will now be flying the
> >prescribed circuit pattern and making all the necessary radio calls?
> >Every station-owner flying down to the back paddock to check
> >the windmill is also going to do all this?
> 
> No, of course they are not going to call and they will still be legal
> (as far as I know). The point which people seem to have issues with
are
> that the recommended calls are not mandatory. As pilot in command you
> get the choice (and responsibility) of what to do to ensure the safety
> of flight taking into account the circumstances.
> 
> As to what is an aerodrome. The question that was asked previously, my
> previous guess was pretty close! CAR 92 d):
> 
> 92 Use of aerodromes
> (1) A person must not land an aircraft on, or engage in conduct
> that causes an aircraft to take off from, a place that does not
> satisfy one or more of the following requirements:
> (a) the place is an aerodrome established under the Air
> Navigation Regulations;
> (b) the use of the place as an aerodrome is authorised by a
> certificate granted, or registration, under Part 139 of
> CASR;
> (c) the place is an aerodrome for which an arrangement under
> section 20 of the Act is in force and the use of the
> aerodrome by aircraft engaged in civil air navigation is
> authorised by CASA under that section;
> (d) the place (not being a place referred to in paragraph (a),
> (b) or (c)) is suitable for use as an aerodrome for the
> purposes of the landing and taking-off of aircraft;
> and, having regard to all the circumstances of the proposed
> landing or take-off (including the prevailing weather
> conditions), the aircraft can land at, or take-off from, the place
> in safety.
> 
> IE if the place is suitable (and safe) for the purposes of takeoff or
> landing it is an aerodrome.
> 
> 
> >I don't think so. I asked these questions of the presenter at
> >the Adelaide session of the Roadshow and at the end of beating
> >around the subject, his answer was 'yes'. I got the feeling I
> >had backed him into a corner and he couldn't really admit reality.
> >
> >Can I pose another question. At Whitwarta, we have a several
> >instances a year of fixed-wing and helicopters blundering, if
> >not through the circuit area, then through the immediate
> >'getting away' airspace outside it. I'm convinced they don't
> >even know we are there. What frequency are they likely to be
> >monitoring?
> 
> During the time I was CFI at PAGC we also had numerous instances like
> this. An Orion, a flight of Squirel helicopters (which went right over
> the aerodrome just as a Blanik was about to launch) and multiple civil
> aircraft. I don't think this is unusual for any gliding operation away
> from major population centres.
> I am sure you are right. IE. they don't know these airstrips are
there,
> nor how we operate. On occasion I have managed to communicate with
some
> of these overfliers, who have sounded surprised that there was a
gliding
> club there (although marked on the maps). I suspect that many pilots
> (military and civil) don't check and never know. Also (others can jump
> in here and correct me, if wrong) I think many of the military
aircraft
> don't carry VHF.
> 
> However, nothing in the new rules will change any of this.
> 
> >If it is 126.7, then it could be interesting to see what
> >changes over the next year or so.
> 
> 
> Regards
> SWK
> 
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>

RE: [Aus-soaring] Medical examination for gliding V Regular check up.

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Do you think that Form 2
inspections on your aircraft are a silly time consuming exercise?

 

I hope you have all said
no.

 

The same analogy should also
apply to the pilot.

 

Lets be honest none of us are getting any
younger and I propose it makes dam good sense that we, 

the most important link in the flying equation
also have an annual or bi-annual inspection (medical) just 

to make sure things are on track. 
There are stories out there of airline pilots doing their medicals and 

dropping dead 2 days later, but I have also
heard stories of guys and gals turning up for their Air Crew 

Medical (AMC) and finding they do have a
developing problem and it is nipped in the bud before is 

becomes life threatening – in fact
that has happed to me and I am still able maintain my Class One medical 

thanks to that intervention.

 

The only people who should feel threatened by
an AMC of any standard are those who are likely to fail.  

   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan Armistead
Sent: Wednesday, 21 December 2005 5:03
PM
To: Discussion
 of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Medical
examination for gliding



 



To quote Patrick Barfield

 

"Somebody else just made the point
that having an incapacitating medical event could be just as fatal while
driving a car as flying a glider. Anecdotally you hear of fatal car accidents
caused by drivers suffering heart attacks etc but I don’t see the public
or regulators clamouring to impose routine medical examinations for all
drivers. Why? Because it isn’t justified on a risk
assessment/cost-benefit analysis that applies just as well to gliding. "





 





I'd suggest the reason people are not
clamouring for medical examinations for all drivers is because of self interest
- to their pocket.  Most adult people are drivers, and "they"
would then have to pay for a medical exam. That's as far as they will have done
a benefit-cost analysis.





 





And woe betide any government
(electorally) that introduced such a measure. Governments are good at being
tough on small groups that can't hurt at the ballot box (like pilots). Try
introducing a "biennial driving review" for all drivers on the
rationale that it keeps up their skill set - at a cost of well over $100
- and see how far it gets.





 





Having had a PPL for many years, I
consider the medical a good reason to get a reasonable checkup at least every
couple of years. Like most guys I only go near a medic when I have to and that
fortunately is very seldom indeed. The only thing to show up so far on my
aviation medical was a hernia, which my GP commented "gee that's small,
I'm amazed he (the DAME) picked it up". But it did mean I got if fixed
while it was tiny and no problem.



Allan
Armistead 
ph
(02) 6249 6470, fax (02) 6249 6555, mobile 0413 013 911 
  PO Box
   908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia


"When
once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes turned
skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be." 

Leonardo
da Vinci, 1452-1519 



 

 

 








___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Condor controls

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Peter,

  I am using a Logitech Wingman
Force 3D. The handle twists providing me with rudder control,

And that also takes a little getting used
to. 

 

SDF 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Stephenson
Sent: Monday, 26 December 2005
8:49 PM
To: Soaring List
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Condor
controls



 



Received Condor for Christmas and am
using a Logitech Attack3 joystick.  I can winch OK but aerotow with a
cross wind is impossible using automatic rudder.  





2. Is it worth getting a set of pedals
and if so, which type?





3. If not, is it worth getting a joy
stick with a rotation in it for the rudder?





 





TIA





 





PeterS





 








___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Condor controls

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

The Force 3D also has the view control so
we can maintain a good lookout, while 

the “Force Feedback” provides
control buffeting when approaching the stall etc.

 

The Condor software is a credit to its
designers.

 

SDF  

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of pstephenson
Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2006
3:43 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating
to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Condor
controls



 



I have upgraded to the next Logitech with
a twist control. I am not at home so do not remember the model.  It also
has a control on the top of the stick which gives a view to the side and
above.  Brilliant.





PeterS







- Original Message - 





From: Stuart &
Kerri FERGUSON 





To: 'Discussion of issues relating to
Soaring in Australia.' 





Sent: Tuesday, January
17, 2006 3:03 PM





Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring]
Condor controls





 



Peter,

 
I am using a Logitech Wingman Force 3D. The handle twists providing me with
rudder control,

And that also takes a little getting used
to. 

 

SDF 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Stephenson
Sent: Monday, 26 December 2005
8:49 PM
To: Soaring List
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Condor
controls



 



Received Condor for Christmas and am
using a Logitech Attack3 joystick.  I can winch OK but aerotow with a
cross wind is impossible using automatic rudder.  





2. Is it worth getting a set of pedals
and if so, which type?





3. If not, is it worth getting a joy
stick with a rotation in it for the rudder?





 





TIA





 





PeterS





 









___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring








___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Tuggie seeks lift

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Glider pilots usually rely on Tuggies to
provide them with lift – 

 

“The %%$#$ tuggie dropped me in sink”
– 

 

…….did
the %%%$&$% tuggie pull the yellow handle?   

 

My scored Ok today – 9 launches, no relights
and home to cook a BBQ dinner.

Brownie points both sides of the fence. 

 

SDF   









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Downes
Sent: Sunday, 22 January 2006 9:37
PM
To:
aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Tuggie
seeks lift



 



I am towing @ Horsham Fri Sat 10/11 Feb & bringing the
Tug back to Bacchus Marsh Sun 12Feb.





 





Anybody travelling to Horsham late Thu 09 Feb and can offer
a poor Tuggie a lift???





 





Regards





 





Ian








___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Luggage compartment pressure in commercial flights

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Brett,

 
I have moved my dogs about in aircraft I have been assured by the airlines that
the Boeing luggage compartment

pressures are the same as the cabin. Makes
sense, if they were different the aircraft would require another pressure

bulkhead between the two areas, this would
add unwanted weight to the aircraft.  Usually cabin pressure on the jets

is about 8000ft.

 

From memory older aircraft like the DC9-30
did not have pressurised cargo/luggage compartments.

 

SDF 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brett Kettle
Sent: Friday, 27 January 2006 1:26
PM
To: 'Discussion
 of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Luggage
compartment pressure in commercial flights



 

I recall several postings a while back on cabin
pressures in commercial flights.  The discussion was around typical cabin
pressures.  I’m interested in knowing more about typical pressures
in luggage compartments, and specifically about the rate of change of pressure
during a flight.  Anyone know somebody who could point me at a source of
logged pressurization graphs? Or even a specification for how transported goods
must be able to cope with pressure changes?

Cheers

Brett Kettle 

 






___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Gliding at "major" airports

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Guys,
 Most airports collect their movement data by recording the CTAF
frequency; these tapes are sent to a company known as Avdata in Bundaberg
Queensland who provides them with a record of movements from which they make
up their accounts.

Over the years there have been records of B737, B767 etc into all sorts of
locations we know they do not go. There is also a story of a Red Beech Baron
in Qld years ago who would go by the call sign "The Red Baron".

Quite simply I do not believe Camden would have anyone sitting there
recording arrivals and departures - the economics simply do not work.
More then likely they have obtained this record from a recording device and
someone has used your call sign - what a simple way of avoiding charges.

It is unfortunate you now have to prove your innocence. 

SDF 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
Armistead
Sent: Friday, 3 February 2006 5:10 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Gliding at "major" airports

Make it a big bill. I'm sure your time is very valuable.

Allan Armistead
ph (02) 6249 6470, fax (02) 6249 6555, mobile 0413 013 911
PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dave and
Cath
Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2006 22:20
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding at "major" airports


Camden claim that they have someone driving around, sighting and collecting
aircraft registrations - so this person needs glasses.  They couldn't tell
me what type of aircraft they had recorded.
On contacting them they refuse to accept my explanation without "proof."
Despite the glider being registered to me in Melbourne.  So now I'll send
them a copy of the MR showing the glider was having it's Form 2 when they
claim I was there, and I'll send them a bill for the effort :-)

Dave L

>The airports collect their
> landing fees through the company Avdata who record all the circuit radio
> calls and bill based on that. It can be people using false call signs to
> avoid charges or simple mistranscriptions by Avdata.


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Gliding at "major" airports

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Jason,
  Maybe so - maybe not; I know that BAL at Bankstown do have their own
recording equipment, and unlike most airport owners they also have their own
playback equipment, I have had it demonstrated to me. I also know they
record Camden CTAF(R). 

SDF 





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason and
Jemima Armistead
Sent: Friday, 3 February 2006 6:27 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Gliding at "major" airports

Stuart

I do not believe the records come from the CTAF/MBZ tapes at Camden.  My 
impression of the situation is that the guys in the tower just jot things 
down as they go.

A minute or two after the tower is closed on weekends, by which time the 
Camden Airports Ltd (CAL) groundsmen are also gone, all sorts of expensive 
machinery e.g. Yak 52s, magically launches from Camden.

These guys are just waiting to avoid the airport charges.

Obviously after sinking a few hundred grand into their aircraft, they can't 
afford the charges ... and no tapes are running at that time because 
Airservices don't care as they are no longer "providing a service" when the 
tower is closed.

Similarly, mid-week, when the tower is closed, our club doesn't get charged 
a penny by Airservices Australia.  We just have to pay CAL.


Cheers

Jason

At 05:55 PM 3/02/2006, Stuart Ferguson wrote:
>Guys,
>  Most airports collect their movement data by recording the CTAF
>frequency; these tapes are sent to a company known as Avdata in Bundaberg
>Queensland who provides them with a record of movements from which they
make
>up their accounts.
>
>Over the years there have been records of B737, B767 etc into all sorts of
>locations we know they do not go. There is also a story of a Red Beech
Baron
>in Qld years ago who would go by the call sign "The Red Baron".
>
>Quite simply I do not believe Camden would have anyone sitting there
>recording arrivals and departures - the economics simply do not work.
>More then likely they have obtained this record from a recording device and
>someone has used your call sign - what a simple way of avoiding charges.
>
>It is unfortunate you now have to prove your innocence.
>
>SDF
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
>Armistead
>Sent: Friday, 3 February 2006 5:10 PM
>To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
>Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Gliding at "major" airports
>
>Make it a big bill. I'm sure your time is very valuable.
>
>Allan Armistead
>ph (02) 6249 6470, fax (02) 6249 6555, mobile 0413 013 911
>PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia
>
>"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
>turned skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be."
>Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dave and
>Cath
>Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2006 22:20
>To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
>Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding at "major" airports
>
>
>Camden claim that they have someone driving around, sighting and collecting
>aircraft registrations - so this person needs glasses.  They couldn't tell
>me what type of aircraft they had recorded.
>On contacting them they refuse to accept my explanation without "proof."
>Despite the glider being registered to me in Melbourne.  So now I'll send
>them a copy of the MR showing the glider was having it's Form 2 when they
>claim I was there, and I'll send them a bill for the effort :-)
>
>Dave L
>
> >The airports collect their
> > landing fees through the company Avdata who record all the circuit radio
> > calls and bill based on that. It can be people using false call signs to
> > avoid charges or simple mistranscriptions by Avdata.
>
>
>___
>Aus-soaring mailing list
>Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>To check or change subscription details, visit:
>http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>___
>Aus-soaring mailing list
>Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>To check or change subscription details, visit:
>http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>___
>Aus-soaring mailing list
>Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>To check or change subscription details, visit:
>http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring



___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Soaring training

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Allan, et, al

Way back in the 70's I worked for a commercial flying school and we saw
similar trends.  We lost approx 70% pre solo through cost of deciding it 
was not for them. The next identifiable bump in the graph was post licence +
6 to 12 months where we think people having got their qualification and made
a few trips finding it hard to justify the expense during family budget
negotiations. 

People have to be stimulated to remain interested; cross country,
competition or wave achievements - this will depend on the person, the club
they have joined, even the people they associate with in their club. Also it
is not just the club, twice this season I heard members of our club say some
of us are "too competitive", in short those people felt uncomfortable the
many of us were focused on going further, faster: involvement with the OLC
was avoided by many.

Having accepted the sport will have a higher than average attrition rate
that does not mean we can't improve, and in the case of our club we always
loose early students over the cross county camp season, and it on our agenda

to minimise this loss. I also think Bernard has a good point, we should show
early students a little cross country, and a little wave, etc keep the
hungry for more.  The future value of our gliders depends on a constant flow
of students progressing into private ownership. 


SDF
 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
Armistead
Sent: Sunday, 12 February 2006 6:42 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Soaring training

Robert Moore said:

"In the cadet gliding club about 70% but 4 out of 20 pilots attended
Joey Glide 3 as competitors.

Most cadets just want the Solo Badge.

In the ASC I think 60% of our trainees will have gone on some sort of
X country before they leave the club"

>3) Do members of this newsgroup think that we can lift the retention rate
by
> providing better pre-solo soaring training?

"Possibly but you must realise that most pupils only have the goal of
solo and only a few if shown the delights you mention will decide to stay."



I find the above quite an amazing statement. While I can understand that
someone in an "air cadet" or scouting type environment might be looking to
"tick the boxes" to get a badge then move on to the next badge, is it really
credible that when someone comes onto an airfield and joins a club that they
are planning to stay to solo and then go away again? I can believe that
people get dissillusioned or lose interest for any number of reasons (which
we need to try and identify and address) but why would anyone go to the time
and effort and expense to join a club intending just to go solo then walk
away?

Allan Armistead
ph (02) 6249 6470, fax (02) 6249 6555, mobile 0413 013 911
PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Help!

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Gents,
  It is possible - it depends on how deep your pockets are.

 http://www.ausjet.com.au/

SDF

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Derek
Ruddock
Sent: Thursday, 16 February 2006 1:16 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Help!

Some friends of mine over from England once thought they would visit
friends in Brisbane (from Sydney) then 'pop down to Melbourne' ...

Cheers
 
Derek
(02) 9342 8241
 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus-soaring-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan Armistead
> Sent: Thursday, 16 February 2006 8:19 AM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Help!
> 
> Sometimes overseas people just have trouble getting their minds around
the
> size of Aust
> 
> I am reminded of the Italian consulting engineer who, on his way from
Sydney
> to Brewarrina (western NSW) to check out some road testing equipment,
asked
> his RTA companion if it would be possible to go via Ayres Rock as he
had
> heard so much about it!
> 
> Allan Armistead
> ph (02) 6249 6470, fax (02) 6249 6555, mobile 0413 013 911
> PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia
> 

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: ASIC card Re: [Aus-soaring] Part 47

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Guys,
 Some of you are barking up the wrong tree.

Part 47 or the new regulations and the new aircraft register have nothing
directly to do with aviation security.  The new database called AIRES from
memory replaces LARP - LARP had been due for replacement for so long it was
not even Y2000 compliant but it managed to do its job until September 2005.
It was really a smart thing to do to do both at the same time, however it
appears that someone did not appreciate the size of the job and the change
over was under resourced.   

As far as your ASIC cards are concerned, aviation security belongs to the
Department of Transport, CASA simply act as one of the issuing authorities
for the card, maybe they have been overwhelmed with applications, other
options are RAA is you're a member or possibly your local airport operator.


For as long as I have been involved with aviation the DCA through to CASA
have been as easy target for many in aviation - the regulator - dammed if
you do and dammed if they don't. The current upheaval in the flying
operations areas will not improve the situation in the short term either -
there are a lot of pissed of staff over there at Barry Ave. 

SDF

   

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete
Sent: Saturday, 18 February 2006 12:25 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: ASIC card Re: [Aus-soaring] Part 47

On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:52:45 +1000
"Peter Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Anyone on this list received an ASIC card yet?  I too have applied and not
> received.

No ASIC, but I did receive a letter saying CLARC had received my
application... "There are some delays in completing the processing of
ASICs... " 

The requirement to have an ASIC that was to come in on 1 Jan 2006 has been
put back to 1 April.
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: Airspace WAS: [Aus-soaring] RE: Near misses

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Some airspace ownership is bluff too.

Try approaching a US carrier group in "we are not here mode" in our G class
airspace, and you will quickly find "might is right" rules being applied.

I know of at least one GA pilot who has had to change his trousers following

an encounter - PA31 V 2 F14 - ok I'm out of here - bastards. 

SDF



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kittel,
Stephen W (ETSA)
Sent: Friday, 24 February 2006 7:50 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: Airspace WAS: [Aus-soaring] RE: Near misses




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Graeme
Cant
Sent: Friday, 24 February 2006 10:44 AM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: RE: Airspace WAS: [Aus-soaring] RE: Near misses

>From: "Kittel, Stephen W (ETSA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>  While I have no real arguments against the rest of Graham's post,
>this is a statement that I have seen before on other mailing lists and
>it simply aint so.

You're quite right about the practice but I was talking more about the
legal principles underlying airspace law.  In much of the EU, I
understand (I'm not a lawyer), the government "owns" all the airspace
and "releases" it to the public as it sees fit.  In the US and Australia
(and probably the UK but I'm not sure), the law allows the government to
take over airspace at will but it's publicly available unless declared
otherwise.




No, this is simply not true.

The legal basis is the same. We are all signatories to the same
conventions.

The alphabet airspace which we proceed towards slowly is ICAO (ie
chiefly European rules)
The US applies the same rules (with stated areas of non compliance cos
they, like Australia, have to be seen to be their own masters)

As for Eastern Europe (I just picked Lithuania as it was the first one I
thought of)
http://www.ans.lt/en/aip/aip.htm  (go to the "enroute, ATC
classification" tab.)
By the way, this looks almost exactly like the German and French
equivalent documents and not too different from the Australian one,
except the Australian one is much bigger and not in two languages.
Appears though, they use a normal ICAO type classification there too.
Just the same as us. I'm guessing that most/all East European states
apply these rules too but I'm not going to check every country.
Eg Lithuania:
"Class G: IFR and VFR flights are permitted and receive flight
information service as far as is practical. Continuous two-way
communication with appropriate AFIS unit is required for flights within
TIZ and TIA"

Nothing special required to aviate in their class G, no forms to fill
out for the commisars.
AH HA ! see it says they "permit" folks to fly there (ergo the
government owns the airspace) But of course the Australian equivalent
says:

"2.1.6 In class G airspace, IFR and VFR flights are permitted. IFR
flights receive traffic information and a flight information service.
VFR flights receive a flight information service if requested."

Note that our government seems to "permit" us to fly here too. What was
the difference again?

There are no maps with "non free flight areas" on them. There are no
"government authorised" clubs anymore. There hasn't been for 15 years or
so in the east. There never was in the west. Our governments are all
signatories to the same agreements at a high level and at a lower level
our operational documents appear almost word for word interchangeable.

>   The East European system - in fact much of Western Europe too - is
>that all airspace is forbidden unless specifically declared open.

**Their airspace is no more "forbidden" than ours.**

SWK

**
This email and any file attachments are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom
they are addressed. 
If you have received this email in error please tell us immediately
by return email and delete the document.
The information in this email expresses the opinion of the author
and does not necessarily represent the views of ETSA Utilities.
**

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] sportavia

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Terry,
  Maybe I don't understand; I never thought Gliding was for the "Time
Poor" members of the community.

>From my prospective one of the most important assets/resources one needs to
enjoy gliding is time; most of us on this list put a very high priority on
gliding and make sure we allocate time for the sport sometimes to the
detriment of other areas in our lives. One trend at our club at late has
been the number of members who are retiring, and how some are allocating a
significant amount of their extra time to gliding.   

To rub that point in a bit more as we sit at our desks, some of these guys
are flying now and will be enjoying late summer soaring at Temora for the
remainder this week.

SDF   


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 27 February 2006 1:38 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] sportavia

A real pity from a national perspective. Tocumwal has been really the last 
remaining full time commercial operation, providing excellent training at 
quite a good price. 

Given the recent discussion about the need for GFA to support/provide a more

commercially focused operation to attract the wealthy, time poor people, 
this decision makes it seem less viable? 

Maybe a facility close to Sydney or Melbourne would do better, focused only 
on training? Given that Tocumwal appears to earn most of it's money from the

European cross country pilots, a training focused facility (such as 
Caboolture)may struggle to be commercially viable? 

Terry 

Patching writes: 

> Seems a little strange to cut the core business of an operation. Shades of

> a couple of other commercial operations who made the switch to independant

> ops including overseas customers, who are now finding things a little 
> difficult.
> It will be interesting.
> Ian P
> KPST
> - Original Message - From: "David Lawley" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" 
> 
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:54 AM
> Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] sportavia 
> 
> 
>> Didn't say it was unusual, was replying to previous post,but the fact it
>> rates a ront page notice on their website must mean something! 
>> 
>> David Lawley
>> Computer Manager
>> Elizabeth Primary School
>> Elizabeth East Prinary School 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete
>>> Sent: Monday, 27 February 2006 10:48 AM
>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] sportavia 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:48:46 +1030
>>> "David Lawley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
>>> 
>>> > I heard (From someone who just returned from there)this
>>> weekend they
>>> > have ceased full time ops until October, confirmed on their website. 
>>> 
>>> Is that unusual? Why would they stay open 7 days a week all
>>> year? They probably do 90% of their flying in 3 or 4 months. 
>>> 
>>> I went there for some training years ago, in September iirc.
>>> Although they might have said they were open full time, I was
>>> the only one flying.
>>> Everyone but "my" instructor was busy with maintenance.
>>> ___
>>> Aus-soaring mailing list
>>> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>>> To check or change subscription details, visit:
>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring 
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Aus-soaring mailing list
>> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>> To check or change subscription details, visit:
>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> 
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
 

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] sportavia

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

They may be able to teach a student to manipulate an aircraft in one week,
but there is a lot more to flying than manipulation.

To quote Terry - 

" Then again, chatting at the bar at the end of each day - "Priceless"


How true is that - it may be the Bar, it may be the launch point or the
pizza shop on the way home (we recommend the Pizzeria at Bredbo)- flying is
not like learning to drive a car, the safety culture among aspects takes
time and exposure to pass on and for the student to learn.  

As an aside our club offers a week course, solo only if up to standard, and
we have had no students for this course since 2001. Ok we do not market it
that hard, we are a club, and human resources are hard to line up even with
a team of enthusiastic retirees to staff the course.

If you're interested - Easter Course at Bunyan, gateway to the NSW Snowy
Mountains - contact me for details.

SDF   

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
Lawley
Sent: Thursday, 23 February 2006 2:51 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] sportavia

Couldn't agree more about week courses, did one myself. Shouldn't have said
training.

 Ok. then 1 hour in a Junior/ASW15 for same cost?(Off season!)

Interestingly I did my 5 day 10 years ago, 26 launches for solo.

 approx 20 launches 15 years before(at previous club) weekends only, no
solo.

 My son did weekend training 2 days every fortnight- 27 launches for solo.

20 launches 2 years before(at previous club) in effect no different.

 Perhaps the week course is over rated in general? Only 1 is not a big
sample I realise.

David Lawley
Computer Manager
Elizabeth Park Primary School 
Elizabeth East Primary School
 
 
 
 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> Of Caleb White
> Sent: Monday, 27 February 2006 2:48 PM
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] sportavia
> 
> I don't think that it's fair to analyse the economics of a 
> commercial full-time training operation on a cost per flight 
> basis (package options also exist). I believe Terry is 
> correct. If you can train uninterrupted for a full week the 
> number of hours/flights to solo would be significantly less 
> than a 'once a week or fortnight' approach in a pure club 
> environment. When you factor in the skills of a full-time 
> instructor it's hard to beat. While the cost per flight is 
> greater, the total cost of training is much less. It's 
> simple; to train for a solid week you have to pay a premium.
> 
> Caleb
> 
> KPST
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: "David Lawley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in 
> Australia.'" 
> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 13:17:52 +1030
> Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] sportavia
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
>  
> 
> > A real pity from a national perspective. Tocumwal has been 
> really the 
> > last remaining full time commercial operation, providing excellent 
> > training at quite a good price.
> 
> Geez I'd hate to see Terrys idea of an expensive commercial 
> operation, Alternatively,If that's what he thinks, I'd like 
> his income!
> 
> $60 for 2000ft tow + 60/hr for a Blanik $120 for a one 
> hour training flight.Hmm 
> 
> David Lawley
> Computer Manager
> Elizabeth Park Primary School
> Elizabeth East Primary School
>  
> 
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> 

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] ideas please!

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

David,

    Why
not a “BPAY” facility for all GFA accounts?

 

Having said that we have to remember there
are still members out there without 

e-mail/internet facilities – if we go
100% high tech we isolate these members.

 

 

SDF

 

 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Conway
Sent: Thursday, 9 March 2006 10:11
AM
To:
aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: [Aus-soaring] ideas
please!



 



Hi Folks





 





Just looking for any ideas and suggestions for how we can
improve the functionality of the GFA website.





 





For example, on-line membership renewal and payment by
credit card.





 





We would need to identify that we are providing an improved
service to members which they would be prepared to pay for if there is a cost
involved, or demonstrate that some savings can be made to also benefit members.





 





Thinking caps on!





 





cheers





 





David Conway





 





 








___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Just another day

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

How do you guys escape the tug or instructor roster to do your own
flying 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce
Taylor
Sent: Monday, 23 October 2006 8:15 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Just another day

Just goes to show how far ahead Qld is when it comes to good weather. For 
the last three weeks we have been burning around tasks like that at great 
speed and altitudes up to 13,000 feet from Warwick and Kingaroy. Sorry 
Tobi... I'm almost a Queenslander at heart!

Cheers, B.

- Original Message - 
From: "Kevin McGowan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:39 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Just another day


>
> Tobi Geiger of Geelong Gliding Club made a good start for this season 
> yesterday (Sat 21) by flying
> Bacchus Marsh - Dunkeld - St Arnaud total of 490 Kms.
>
> Just another day at Bacchus.
>
> K. McG.
>
> _
> See Jet live in LA. Download music for a chance to win! 
>
http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=721&referr
al=hotmailtagline&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/section.aspx?sectionid=246
5§ionname=artistfeature&subsectionid=5692&subsectionname=jet
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> 

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] GPS units - opinions please...

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Mitch - there is no shortage of advice here, but has anyone answered your
question?  

FLARM and Conflict avoidance equipment.

It would appear that many in the gliding community have come to the
conclusion that FLARM is the answer to in flight collision avoidance, 
but is it? 

But let's not get too excited, only 300 gliders or approx 30% of the
Australian glider fleet has been fitted. We also share the sky with the
Military Aviation, GA, RAA, HGFA and the RAAA community (have I missed
anyone), how many aircraft in these fleets are fitted? Do they have anything
near the same Visual Lookout culture we do?

I am not knocking FLARM but to be truly effective there has to be an across
the board acceptance by all G and E airspace users to a common standard of 
electronic position sharing. I live in hope.
 
SDF



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philip
Ritchie
Sent: Wednesday, 8 November 2006 4:52 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] GPS units - opinions please...

Adelaide Soaring Club in SA now has all club gliders fitted with FLARM and 
is in the process of installing them in the tugs. Most of the money for them

was raised by asking for donations from club members. There are 5 private 
gliders that also have them fitted.

Funny story - A pilot brought one over from WA to the last Nationals and 
only then found out it wasn't working properly as there was no other FLARM 
in WA to link up with.

Sort of sad and lonely really.

Philip Ritchie


- Original Message - 
From: "David Lawley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" 

Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 3:02 PM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] GPS units - opinions please...


>
> "once you have 2 gliders with FLARM"
>
> Agreed Scott, however here in SA there are very few FLARMS I know of (in
> fact none: Waikerie, AUGC and Balaklava do not have them, not sure about
> others) and WGC has not decided to buy any as yet.
>
> Not much point in being the only glider in the state to have one eh? Hence
> my statement!
>
> I guess it varies from state to state, so what applies here may not be the
> case elsewhere, something I should perhaps have mentioned.
>
> There may be a point that most gliders have them, they then will become 
> very
> useful
>
> If FLARM were to have an IGC approved logger it would really make it very
> worthwhile to buy though-is this possible?
>
> To avoid any confusion I do think FLARM is a great idea, and would like to
> see all gliders have them, however until they do it will be the glider
> without one that will get you if you don't continue to keep a good 
> lookout!
>
>
> Regards
>
> Dave L



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.32/523 - Release Date: 7/11/2006
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] NSW glider trailer registration

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

All except the ACT :( 

But there are ways round that too. 

SDF

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maurice
Little
Sent: Thursday, 30 November 2006 5:39 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] NSW glider trailer registration

There is a standard gazetted approval specifically for glider 
trailers in Victoria. Information from VIC Roads is that interstate 
authorities will accept trailers complying with this.  See 
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrne/vrne5nav.nsf/childdocs/-55E7C4E2B4A5C914
CA256FD300241BD4-F5C7A8D131E91CB3CA256FD300241BF6-64BF03A638B7EB12CA256FD900
218B8C-9FB6FF68A5F9ADE5CA256FF57C00?open

Rgds
ML

At 05:25 PM 30/11/2006, you wrote:
>The Goulburn Gliding Group are considering restoring and registering
>their old Blanik trailer. I seem to remember that there used to be a
>problem getting glider trailers registered because the rear overhang was
>often too great. I believe that the Victorian regs. were altered
>specifically for glider trailers but not the NSW ones.
>
>Does anyone on this list know what the current situation is?
>
>cheers,
>Ken
>
>
>___
>Aus-soaring mailing list
>Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>To check or change subscription details, visit:
>http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Airfield tenure - Airfield Development .

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Airports and airfields are like rubbish tips in most communities, they 
all need or want one BUT not in my back yard. Aviation users for some 
reason also have a poor image of being silver spooners (if only they knew
the truth) to my knowledge marinas and their users for example do not come
under the same kind of pressure. 

Allan mentions the Temora development. 
In my opinion this development is well intentioned BUT far too ambitious,
and those driving the development have failed to read the market place
accurately. Temora is a popular destination for a large segment of the
recreational aviation community and a venue for many successful aviation
events; it is well located and usually enjoys good flying weather. What the
local developers have failed to realise is just because we love to visit
Temora does not mean that most of us want to or can afford to live in
Temora, our jobs and families are established elsewhere. Once again in my
opinion they would be better served by down sizing their residential
development and work on an Aviation tourism theme with on field
accommodation, improved tie down facilities, and on field convention centre
that would also serve the community at large, and rent by the night hangar
facilities. In the mean time if you go to Temora look out for survey pegs
lot numbers on them, they are all over the airport.

SDF

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
Armistead
Sent: Friday, 1 December 2006 10:13 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Airfield tenure.

A story that's replicated at Canberra airport. Sell an airport to a property
developer and what does he see? A vast, undeveloped piece of land with a few
inconvenient strips of bitumen on it. Now we have ever growing office
complexes, buildings that are on the minimums for clearance/height from the
runways, a massive "factory outlet" shopping centre, fees and charges that
are ever rising, and traffic that stuffs up the surrounding semi-arterial
roads. All done with only the "consent" of the Commonwealth, exempt from the
planning regime of the ACT (for what that's worth).

Even our (Canberra Gliding Club) "summer base" at Temora is subject to
development pressures as the Council pushes the "aviation park" theme -
which is all very well until it starts to threaten the continued existence
of a very handy cross runway. Oh, and the good old caravan park, right on
the edge of the airfield, is now seen by some as an "eyesore" when the flash
new houses start to overlook it. Although it seems the threat is held at bay
for the time being at least. And the not insignificant presence of the
Aviation Museum would suggest it will remain an active airfield in the
foreseeable future.

Fortunately, due to forward thinking by the members of 30 years ago, we own
our own piece of ground freehold (Bunyan, near Cooma). Although  the "rural
residential" development is slowly pushing out from Cooma and we need to be
more aware of the noise aspects of our operation, I guess by the time it
becomes a real issue our airfield will be subdividable and we will be
sitting on an extremely valuable asset - and the members in the future will
be in a position to cash in, and find a new (probably less convenient) site.


Allan Armistead
ph (02) 6249 6470, mobile 0413 013 911
PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bob
Thomas
Sent: Friday, 1 December 2006 19:52
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Airfield tenure.


I think that the MacQuarie Bank, Manchester Airport and  the crowd that runs
the Adelaide buses Servco? own PF and quite a few others. They are a greedy
lot and anything goes just so it is their way! I had an office showroom
complex at PF and had a devils own job transferring the title to the new
owner when I sold it.  They reckon that an airfield is just a nuisance and
that they can make a lot more money in other ventures
- Original Message -
From: "Texler, Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:46 AM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Airfield tenure.


> See what is happening to Parafield in Adelaide.
>
> The trees (that spell "Parafield") have been cut down and more retail is
> going to be built along Main North Road
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
T

RE: [Aus-soaring] Airfield tenure.

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Approx 50% of Parafield airport tenants are non aviation related industries.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Thomas
Sent: Friday, 1 December 2006 7:52 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Airfield tenure.

I think that the MacQuarie Bank, Manchester Airport and  the crowd that runs

the Adelaide buses Servco? own PF and quite a few others. They are a greedy 
lot and anything goes just so it is their way! I had an office showroom 
complex at PF and had a devils own job transferring the title to the new 
owner when I sold it.  They reckon that an airfield is just a nuisance and 
that they can make a lot more money in other ventures
- Original Message - 
From: "Texler, Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 

Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:46 AM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Airfield tenure.


> See what is happening to Parafield in Adelaide.
>
> The trees (that spell "Parafield") have been cut down and more retail is 
> going to be built along Main North Road
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> 

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Airfield tenure - Airfield Development .

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Ian,
Helicopter operations are completely different to fixed wing.

Helicopters have the advantage that they can operate from a local community 
oval or other suitable landing area, and the disadvantage of relatively 
low transit speeds and fuel endurances. To maximise their potential
helicopters are best located close to the scene of action to maximise time
on task and then support them with mobile fuel tankers etc.

SDF. 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian McPhee
Sent: Saturday, 2 December 2006 9:05 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Airfield tenure - Airfield Development .

Aviation is really needed in our community these days when it comes to fire 
fighting.  Perhaps we could encourage these services to have more bases on 
Airfields (I realise most is done by helecopters these days but they both 
need airport based avgas or avtur and LAME services which are on airports. 
Perhaps country fire services and SES could be or should be encouraged to 
base themselves on airports/airfields and this may guarantee the future 
more.

This week I flew the sunbird seaker observation aircraft (180HP L-0360) and 
they hope to use it in 85% of the places helicopters are used (1/3 operating

costs) and they need airfields so lets hope the authorities see their value.

There are only 10 built in AUS but more than that used for pipline work in 
Jordan and USA I think - built under licence. Besides they would make a good

tug but the pricetag of $300K + might rule them out.

Anyhow getting essential services based on airfields is a thought and 
especially the ones that are not sucure airports bit like most gliding 
airports .

Ian McPhee (skype   macca304)
Box 657
Byron Bay  NSW  2481  Australia
Tel +61(0)2 66847642 mob +61(0)428847642
VoIP local 0266781917
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.mrsoaring.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" 

Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 8:22 AM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Airfield tenure - Airfield Development .


> Airports and airfields are like rubbish tips in most communities, they
> all need or want one BUT not in my back yard. Aviation users for some
> reason also have a poor image of being silver spooners (if only they knew
> the truth) to my knowledge marinas and their users for example do not come
> under the same kind of pressure.
> Allan mentions the Temora development.
> In my opinion this development is well intentioned BUT far too ambitious,
> and those driving the development have failed to read the market place
> accurately. Temora is a popular destination for a large segment of the
> recreational aviation community and a venue for many successful aviation
> events; it is well located and usually enjoys good flying weather. What 
> the
> local developers have failed to realise is just because we love to visit
> Temora does not mean that most of us want to or can afford to live in
> Temora, our jobs and families are established elsewhere. Once again in my
> opinion they would be better served by down sizing their residential
> development and work on an Aviation tourism theme with on field
> accommodation, improved tie down facilities, and on field convention 
> centre
> that would also serve the community at large, and rent by the night hangar
> facilities. In the mean time if you go to Temora look out for survey pegs
> lot numbers on them, they are all over the airport.
>
> SDF
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
> Armistead
> Sent: Friday, 1 December 2006 10:13 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Airfield tenure.
>
> A story that's replicated at Canberra airport. Sell an airport to a 
> property
> developer and what does he see? A vast, undeveloped piece of land with a 
> few
> inconvenient strips of bitumen on it. Now we have ever growing office
> complexes, buildings that are on the minimums for clearance/height from 
> the
> runways, a massive "factory outlet" shopping centre, fees and charges that
> are ever rising, and traffic that stuffs up the surrounding semi-arterial
> roads. All done with only the "consent" of the Commonwealth, exempt from 
> the
> planning regime of the ACT (for what that's worth).
>
> Even our (Canberra Gliding Club) "summer base" at Temora is subject to
> development pressures as the Council pushes the "aviation park" theme -
> which is all very well until it starts to threaten the continued existence
> of a very handy cross runway. Oh, and the good old car

RE: [Aus-soaring] HP14 for Sale

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Sure is - and from one who knows Graeme, everything he owns is kelp in

very good condition.

 

SDF 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter
Creswick
Sent: Saturday, 16 December 2006 9:32 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] HP14 for Sale

 

This it ?

http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/HP-14/VH-GGB/VH-GGB.htm

 

- Original Message - 

From: Graeme   & Joy Rickert 

To: Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net 

Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 11:16 AM

Subject: [Aus-soaring] HP14 for Sale

 

I am about to retire from flying (going fishing) and have my HP 14 for sale.
It is the aircraft that was previously owned by Noel Lovell of Ararat.  

 

The glider is in excellent condition with low total hours (around 1,265) and
low total flights (around 620).  The 30 year survey was completed in
December 05 by Tom Gilbert.

 

I am about to perform the next annual Form 2 inspection but could delay to
do in conjunction with a prospective purchaser to help ensure complete
familiarity with the glider.

 

Performance of the HP 14 is very similar to a Libelle or Standard Cirrus.
Perhaps slightly better glide angle at high speed end but not quite as easy
to thermal as a Libelle. It is flapped with full range from negative 5
degrees to plus 90 degrees.

 

Landing performance is somewhat similar to a PIK with full drag flaps and no
dive brakes requiring a steeper nose attitude than most other gliders.
However, that is quite easy to master and the glider can be landed with an
acceptably short landing run using a more conventional approach attitude
with just 30 degrees of flap.  Conversion to the glider is to initially use
the flatter approach attitude and then increase up to the full short landing
performance with 90 degrees flap.

 

The glider is equipped with a very good 760 channel radio (GA type, King KY
92, includes Nav as well as Com channels) and has a Cambridge MNAV vario,
flight director and final glide system and there is a PZL mechanical vario
as backup.  Plus ASI, compass and oxy system.

 

Performance of the glider is quite adequate for serious cross country flying
and it has done numerous 300 km flights, several 500 km, two 600 km and one
750 km in the 11 years that I have owned it.

 

My asking price is $17,000 for the glider and trailer (good condition).
Also included is a PA slimpack parachute which is "time expired" as far as
the pack is concerned but I understand that the canopy is still excellent
and can be used on an "on condition" basis.  

 

Also available (at Bunyan) is an excellent condition Tee hangar with an "on
site" caravan for a total package price (glider, trailer, hangar, caravan)
of $27,000 or if purchased separately, $10,000 for the hangar and caravan.

 

I can be contacted on my home phone (02 6286 3446), my mobile (0429 693 650)
or by e-mail.

 

Graeme Rickert


  _  


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Concealing Aircraft Registration

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Michael,
I share your sentiment;

I don't think most of the media would understand the significance of what
they have seen or taken a photo of following an aircraft accident, as far as
they are concerned bad/tragic news is good copy. 

As far as educating the media is concerned, not even the angels go there

Your comment about privacy and sensitivity is taken a set further in the
fact that anyone can source the aircraft register on line while motor
vehicle registrations details are not available even on request due to
"Privacy Legislation" in the ACT at least, and probably other states too. 
The potential for Road Rage revenge attacks has been used as one reason to
justify this position. 

SDF 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Texler,
Michael
Sent: Thursday, 28 December 2006 1:22 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Concealing Aircraft Registration

Why do the press continue to not conceal aircraft registrations when
photographing accidents? Do they need education.

I note that when car accidents are reported, the number plate is discretely
blurred

It is most insensitive to the family and friends of the pilot. This lack of
respect makes me quite angry.

My heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of the pilot.

MT

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Concealing Aircraft Registration

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

David,
  You are correct, it is better to provide the media with a prepared
statement or "Press Release" than ignore them, the trick is never conceal
the facts, but never provide details, eg "Yes there has been a tragic
accident and the police and police have control of the incident, for further
information please contact police public relations", they know the number.
If they push for more detail, and in most cases they will, you advise them
that you are unable to provide them with anymore information at this point
in time and thank them for their time. 

In the case of this recent tragic accident the media component appears to
have been handled very well and it is unfortunate that the identification of
the aircraft was published.

For now I think it is time to drop the topic, many of the people who were
present at the time may be reading this topic may be upset by it.  Our
thoughts and condolences must not only go the family but to our gliding
colleagues who have lost a mate. 

SDF 
   



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave
Boulter -Internode Acct
Sent: Friday, 29 December 2006 10:59 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Concealing Aircraft Registration

I came home one evening after work, watched the news to hear them say
that the person that was taken from the water near the Gap (Sydney)this
morning was "xyz". This was my cousin, who I was very close to. My
mother knew but wanted to tell me face-face. This was a long time ago
before mobile phones etc. Nothing has changed in the many years. I had
to face the press with a member of my club passing away in tragic
circumstances last year. There are good "press" people and there are
bad. I have seen them all in the space of that week.

I think the GFA needs to prepare clubs better with Press Kits and facts
so they can speak to the media. I know from experience that the
objective is to keep the press away from the family. If you give them
something they will be more happy and less harrassing of the family for
the story. They have deadlines.

/daveb

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> Of Ben Jones
> Sent: Friday, 29 December 2006 6:35 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Concealing Aircraft Registration
> 
> 
> Scott, not having a go at you  but.
> 
> Legal reasons or not is pile of B.S,
> 
> What legal reason would that be ??
> 
> Just because a reg of a aircraft is open to any one who can 
> punch in a CASA 
> or GFA web page and search for a particular rego and get the 
> particular 
> details of the owner and most likely the pilot at the time of 
> reporting of 
> the accident, doesn't mean its a right to publish the rego of 
> the aircraft 
> in a photo.
> 
> " Lets assume I  have  a uncle who flew aircraft and this 
> aircraft went in 
> and was published no later than 1 hour after the incident as 
> a news flash 
> across my computer screen while looking at the ABC website, I 
> click on the 
> headline out of interest and see a pic of my uncles aircraft 
> on the ground 
>  and caption pilot dies in crash "
> 
> Because of the crap reasons why they dont blank out rego's  ( 
> and with 
> todays digital gear it aint that hard!! ) Now i just have 
> been informed of 
> my uncles death, via computer . gee dont you think this 
> type of "news" 
> should be delivered by friend and family  not via the press.
> 
> The above is only a example .
> 
> My thought go out to the family of a fellow pilot.
> 
> Ben
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Scott Penrose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 
> 
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 3:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Concealing Aircraft Registration
> 
> 
> >> Your comment about privacy and sensitivity is taken a set 
> further  in 
> >> the fact that anyone can source the aircraft register on 
> line while 
> >> motor vehicle registrations details are not available even 
> on request 
> >> due to "Privacy Legislation" in the ACT at least, and 
> probably other  
> >> states too. The potential for Road Rage revenge attacks 
> has been used 
> >> as one  reason to
> >> justify this position.
> >
> > I am passing no judgement on if it should or should not be, 
> but this  
> > is
> > the reason they do not cover it up. Unlike car 
> registration,  aircraft 
> > registration is open and public. The press do not cover  
> things up for 
> > sensitivity reasons, but for legal ones. Again, this is  no 
> judgement on 
> > if they should or not.
> >
> > Scott
> > ___
> > Aus-soaring mailing list
> > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> > To check or change subscription details, visit: 
> > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> > 
> 
> 

RE: [Aus-soaring] DI ?

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Robert Hart wrote

 

Now - there is a separate issue involving independent operators and the
requirement for a second signature which makes it technically impossible for
such a person to rig their glider and fly it unless there is a second person
with a DI rating around to counter sign the maintenance release. I believe
that this has in the past been discussed in the technical arenas of the GFA,
but no change has resulted.

 

Robert, 

  I think this issue is academic. The critical mass, the qualifications
and experience required of those attending to make a gliding operation
viable would almost guarantee at least one other person with D.I.
qualifications would be in attendance.

 

Mike Borgelt wrote

 

Anyone who inspects or signs for someone else's glider after rigging 

just must be stupid or naive. You leave yourself wide open to both 

criminal and civil actions. 

 

Mike,

 yes you could be open for civil action; I do not have legal training  

but my understanding is someone has to prove criminal intent to have
criminal action 

taken against you. As far as conducting inspections are concerned provided
you are trained and qualified, and therefore assessed as competent by others
who are qualified to conduct such assessments you are neither stupid or
naïve, you are conducting normal business in the same way a Surgeon, LAME,
motor mechanic or electrician does on a daily basis. You as the owner also
have a responsibility to take care who is asked to conduct your nspections. 

 

Robert,

During your research could you establish is Form 2 inspectors etc
covered by the GFA insurance policy against such potential action in the
same way Instructors and Tug Pilots are. (maybe someone in the forum already
knows the answer) 

 

SDF 

 

  

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Hart
Sent: Friday, 12 January 2007 8:37 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] DI ?

 

Mike Borgelt wrote:

> Give us a break!

> 

> It points up the need to rig the glider properly in the first place, 

> admittedly something that's difficult to do at many gliding clubs with 

> stupid interruptions by people who should know better.

> 

> Anyone who inspects or signs for someone else's glider after rigging 

> just must be stupid or naive. You leave yourself wide open to both 

> criminal and civil actions.

I think this is a bit over the top.

 

First of all, there is the issue of club (and for that matter, syndicate 

owned) gliders - when they are rigged there is not just one owner whose 

life is on the line - there are many people who will fly that glider (or 

in the case of TIFs, fly in it). It seems eminently reasonable to check 

that the DI has correctly connected everything in those circumstances. 

Do I, as an instructor, wish to fly in a club glider that has not been 

checked for correct rigging: no!

 

Secondly, I know I make mistakes - and that others around me do so as 

well. Having a second set of eyes make sure that everything is connected 

properly seems a really good idea to me. As an older glider, Alice has 8 

Hoteliers (with two different sorts of safety lock) and 3 wing pins 

(with two different sorts of safety locks). I know /from experience/ 

that it is quite possible to mis-insert the safety locks on the outer 

wing panel pins resulting in an unlocked wing pin!

 

Having someone check my work, or checking someone else's reduces the 

risk of getting airborne with a mis-rigged glider: which to me seems a 

really good idea.

 

Now - there is a separate issue involving independent operators and the 

requirement for a second signature which makes it technically impossible 

for such a person to rig their glider and fly it unless there is a 

second person with a DI rating around to counter sign the maintenance 

release. I believe that this has in the past been discussed in the 

technical arenas of the GFA, but no change has resulted.

 

I'll try and find out what is happening on this issue.

 

-- 

Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

+61 (0)438 385 533   http://www.hart.wattle.id.au

 

 

___

Aus-soaring mailing list

Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net

To check or change subscription details, visit:

http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] DI ? - Temora report 11/01/07

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Stephen,

No - I did not miss the point, and I said "almost
guarantee", and in your case yesterday you did have someone with a D.I.
qualification, 

I also suspect if you hadn't you would not have changed the tips :-) .

 

Just had a report from Temora about yesterday's flying - BIG DAY several
750km completed, and one pilot almost completed a 1000km FAI Triangle. 

If you want to predict the great days just contact me for my work roster, I
am always at work (or in the tug) on those great days :-( 

 

SDF



 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kittel,
Stephen W (ETSA)
Sent: Friday, 12 January 2007 10:10 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] DI ?

 

 

 


  _  


From: Stuart   FERGUSON

Robert Hart wrote

 

Now - there is a separate issue involving independent operators and the
requirement for a second signature which makes it technically impossible for
such a person to rig their glider and fly it unless there is a second person
with a DI rating around to counter sign the maintenance release. I believe
that this has in the past been discussed in the technical arenas of the GFA,
but no change has resulted.

 

Robert, 

  I think this issue is academic. The critical mass, the qualifications
and experience required of those attending to make a gliding operation
viable would almost guarantee at least one other person with D.I.
qualifications would be in attendance.

 

 

I think you miss the point Stuart. If a person is exercising their
independant rating, then by definition there isn't anyoneelse (with ratings)
about. 

And it isn't necessarily a problem for independant operators only. Clubs are
getting smaller. GFA _tends_ to draw its officers from the membership of
larger clubs who don't necessarily think of the issues facing the smaller
(particularly remote) clubs. It is quite conceivable for operations to
regularly be with very minimal crew. 

This doesn't apply solely to smaller clubs either. I flew at Gawler
yesterday. There were a total of 5 people on the field including the tuggy
and the office lady. An instructor and a student self arranged to be there
also. The aircraft I flew was the new Discus 2C (nice plane, by the way)
with 15/18 tips. When you change the tips you break the aileron circuit. If
the instructor/student hadn't fortuitously organised themselves to be there,
it would have been me, the tuggy and the office lady. Who would
independantly check the controls in this scenario?

 

Regards

SWK

**
This email and any file attachments are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom
they are addressed. 
If you have received this email in error please tell us immediately
by return email and delete the document. 
The information in this email expresses the opinion of the author 
and does not necessarily represent the views of ETSA Utilities.
**

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] DI ?

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Robert,

  You are correct, and I have assisted rigging and conducted the
independent control 

checks on a Nimbus 2, I know exactly what you are talking about, they are
more complex than 

most aircraft to rig.  

 

Mark, 

  May I recommend you read some of Professor James Reason's material
on risk management. 

 

SDF 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark
Sempers
Sent: Friday, 12 January 2007 2:30 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] DI ?

 

I was indeed.. Don't take it personally, it wasn't intended to read that
way:

 

I am not suggesting *you* are mad, or that *you* do not take care, nor am I
against getting a sanity check. I do believe however that that the whole
concept of the secondary check, having someone else sign off your aircraft
is airworthy is conducive to, and, to some extent, encourages a certain
frame of mind, which is (in my opinion) flat wrong. 
 

/Mark.

 

P.S. No, I've never rigged a Nimbus 2 :)
 

On 12/01/07, Robert Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Mark Sempers wrote:
> Someone was extolling the complexity of their particular rig earlier -
> all the more reason to be very careful about putting it together and 
> double checking. Take the rigging inspection seriously : it's one of
> the areas of our lives where making mistakes can cost lives; treat it
> as such. Don't sit there in the fluffy (and false) comfort that if you 
> stuff it up, the other guy will catch your mistake.. he/she might not,
> and *you* pay the price.
I think you are referring to me (and Alice) - and if you thought I was
extolling the complexity of her rig, then you've never rigged a Nimbus 
2! Also, you seem to be suggesting that I do /*not*/ take care with the
rigging of my glider, relying instead upon the checking of another person.

Do you think I am mad? (Always a possibility, but I'm certainly not that 
mad!)

I take every possible care, check things twice but /*I KNOW*/ that I can
still make mistakes. I have found the mistakes others have made when
connecting Hoteliers, wing pin safety pins and such but not made a 
mistake myself - yet. Despite this I am always grateful for another set
of eyes cast over my work (even when I have to explain what people need
to be looking for so they can properly assess if everything is correctly 
connected).

--
Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533   http://www.hart.wattle.id.au


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit: 
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

 

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] Book Idea

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

The Libelle Canopy lock topic got well of trackwas it resolved.

 

It is the off track discussion that sparked this idea.

 

We all have an outlanding story we love to tell, if you haven't you have
been 

spending too much time in the hangar (or on the computer). We have all sat
round 

at the end of the day flying the hangar and often telling tales of
outlanding, many of 

them embellished over the years - that is part of the fun.  

 

What an idea for a coffee table book - A collection of Australian Outlanding
stories. 

The market will not be huge but it is one way that the exploits of the past
will remain 

part of the folk lore of Gliding.

 

SDF

 

PS - I wonder where those 3 young maidens who rode bare back to my
assistance after  

 my first real outlanding are these days.

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Emilis
Prelgauskas
Sent: Thursday, 25 January 2007 9:46 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Not at all about Libelle canopy locks...

 

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:49:25 +1030, JR wrote:

> the

>publican

>was great, fed me and generally looked after me all afternoon and

>some of

>the night, I thought it was cool, but the crew werent so happy

>JR

 

 

I was picked up from a farmhouse one glide south of Orrorroo on Christmas
Day a long time ago along with 2 other pilots, where we were royally fed and
watered; while the crews in the 3 car/trailer convoy had all the usual
electrical & engine issues that elderly gliding cars and trailers have on a
hot dusty day and that night.

We'd all hit the sea breeze as we were heading south late in the afternoon,
and after the all night celebratory drinks at least the pilots didn't care
it was Boxing Day before we got home.

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Book Idea

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Allan - you will have to buy the book  :-) 

 

SDF

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
Armistead
Sent: Thursday, 25 January 2007 10:29 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Book Idea

 

Hmmm, some clarification required here Stuart.

 

Should that PS be punctuated as;

 

...rode bare-back to my assistance...

 

or

 

...rode bare, back to my assistance...

 

???

 

 

 

Allan Armistead
ph (02) 6249 6470, mobile 0413 013 911
PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stuart &
Kerri FERGUSON
Sent: Thursday, 25 January 2007 10:12
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in
Australia.'
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Book Idea

The Libelle Canopy lock topic got well of trackwas it resolved.

 

It is the off track discussion that sparked this idea.

 

We all have an outlanding story we love to tell, if you haven't you have
been 

spending too much time in the hangar (or on the computer). We have all sat
round 

at the end of the day flying the hangar and often telling tales of
outlanding, many of 

them embellished over the years - that is part of the fun.  

 

What an idea for a coffee table book - A collection of Australian Outlanding
stories. 

The market will not be huge but it is one way that the exploits of the past
will remain 

part of the folk lore of Gliding.

 

SDF

 

PS - I wonder where those 3 young maidens who rode bare back to my
assistance after  

 my first real outlanding are these days.

 


  _  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Emilis
Prelgauskas
Sent: Thursday, 25 January 2007 9:46 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Not at all about Libelle canopy locks...

 

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:49:25 +1030, JR wrote:

> the

>publican

>was great, fed me and generally looked after me all afternoon and

>some of

>the night, I thought it was cool, but the crew werent so happy

>JR

 

 

I was picked up from a farmhouse one glide south of Orrorroo on Christmas
Day a long time ago along with 2 other pilots, where we were royally fed and
watered; while the crews in the 3 car/trailer convoy had all the usual
electrical & engine issues that elderly gliding cars and trailers have on a
hot dusty day and that night.

We'd all hit the sea breeze as we were heading south late in the afternoon,
and after the all night celebratory drinks at least the pilots didn't care
it was Boxing Day before we got home.

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] Dust Sweet and Beers

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Guys - we need a new name for this topic :) 

Keep the stories tall and true flowing.

SDF

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam
Woolley
Sent: Thursday, 25 January 2007 11:28 AM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Not at all about Libelle canopy locks...

G'day All,

I think I win this category hands down..  Unlucky for me as I was the 
retrieve driver, picking the great Jay Rebbeck up..  It was worth it though,

as I had unlimited FREE access to a LS8 after this effort!

This is worth the read, by Jay Rebbeck..


I'm 800km into a 1000km attempt when a line of storms cuts off my path 
homeover the mountains. So I deviate way off track to get to landable 
terrain,and eventually touch down at Wagga Wagga airport thinking it will 
"make theretrieve easy." I land at 7pm, five minutes before the domestic 
flights from Sydney and Melbourne arrive. I sit in arrivals reading FHM 
until the airportcloses down.

Kicked out onto the apron at 10pm, I then wait in the LS8 untilmy faithful 
crew Adam arrives in my trusty Rent-A-Rocket hire car. We deriginto the 
"one-size-fits-all" Australian trailer and are ready to leave at1am. At 
which point the car dies.

With half an hour of engine massage, we're finally away with only 250km of 
driving to go. Two hours later, and we're cruising through the town 
ofAlburey at 50kph when we hear a faint high pitch noise from the 
engine.We're contemplating stopping when all four wheels of the car 
simultaneouslylock up and we come to a grinding halt. Smoke billows out from

the seizedgear box and the car and trailer are left snaking across the Hume 
Highway.No damage. Sighs of relief.

Unfortunately, 3am on the Hume Highway is the Juggernaught rush hour. 
Wespend five minutes fumbling under the hood with ten tonne trucks 
thunderingpast us, before being joined by the state police who call for a 
recoveryvehicle. As we wait, the officer asks me how much the glider is 
worth. WhenI tell him, he helpfully suggests that I spend more money on my 
car and lesson my glider.

The car and trailer are towed away at 4am to the Alburey police car 
impound,leaving Adam and myself stood on the side of the road. It's Saturday

morningin nowheresville but miraculously we find a bar that's still open, 
where anenormous bouncer is busy kicking out the local drunks. Having 
achieved localcelebrity status with our tale of near disaster, we score a 
six pack of VBand a night's accommodation.

The alarm wakes us at 7am to catch a taxi to the police impound yard. 
Whenthe RAC arrive, they prove useless and suggest we contact the hire 
company.On the phone to "Rent-A-Rocket" we discover that they have a sister 
recoverycompany called "Supa-Salvage" (Clearly a match made in heaven...) 
And so,three hours later, a 1950s Ford 250 Pick Up Truck arrives to the 
rescue. We winch the hire car onto the truck, hook the LS8 trailer on the 
back, jump inthe truck and hit the road.

The nightmare is over and we're on our way home.

Two kilometres down the road, and we're just pulling up at the first set 
oftraffic lights when the truck goes horribly quiet. It's 1pm the day after 
Ilanded out. The retrieve is in its 18th hour. We've had two hours sleep, 
our hire car has broken down twice and we've narrowly avoided a motorway 
pileup.

And now, the breakdown recovery vehicle has broken down.

Looking back, this was the point where Adam and myself finally saw the 
funnyside. Bent double on the side of the road I laughed so hard that 
tearsstreamed down my face and my ribs ached. Meanwhile our man from Supa 
Salvage called for the retrieve's third recovery vehicle. The combination 
wasfinally towed back later that evening.

As for Adam and me, Derek Westwoodwas our saviour, generously agreeing to 
pick us up. By 4pm that afternoon wefinally made it back to Benalla.

Reflecting on the retrieve I assumed that I'd had my season's bad luck. Buta

fortnight later I landed out 15km into a 750km attempt, got retrieved onceby

the wrong trailer, second by a car that broke down in the field, andended up

needing six people to drag the assorted array of vehicles back tothe club.

Cest la vie...


Regards
Adam Woolley

>From: Mitchell Preston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in 
>Australia."
>To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in 
>Australia."
>Subject: [Aus-soaring] Not at all about Libelle canopy locks...
>Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:52:18 +1100
>
>BT,
>
>I certainly knew I was alive when Macca and I once drove from Keepit  one 
>night to a property between Narrabri and Walgett. You were  enjoying dinner

>with the owners after borrowing one of their paddocks  to park the Nimbus 
>in while attempting a 750 K triangle. I recall the  Nimbus came apart under

>the almost adequate lights of Macca's  'Commodore du jour'; extra care had 
>to be taken lest the  aforementioned centre panels were droppe

[Aus-soaring] FAI Competition Licence

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Is one required for the OLC ?

SDF

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Hart
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 8:24 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

David Nugent wrote:
> Rolf,
>  
> Competition licenses have not been required at past Horsham Weeks 
> (including when they are a State comp), my understanding is that they 
> are only reqd at National level.
It is my understanding that in order to be able to use the GFA 
competition insurance cover, all competing pilots must have an FAI 
competitor's licence. This is why all competitions in Qld (including the 
Easter competition) require competitor's licences.

-- 
Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533   http://www.hart.wattle.id.au


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps - FAI Comp Licence.

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

>From my experience you just apply for the licence (fill out an application
form, pay your money and your licence is in the mail renewable every two
years. Details on how to apply were on the GFA web site last time I checked.


Degree of difficulty 1

SDF   


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
Lawley
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 10:34 AM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Hi All,

Whereas I thought I read somewhere that one qualified for a FAI comp license
in part by entering regional competitions, a bit of a catch 22 this eh?

 No license, no compete, no compete no license! Why am I not surprised!

One thing I have never been able to fathom is how States are allowed to
modify the nationals rules at will, it seems to me they should be decided
Nationally, and states should not be able to tack on their own extras, such
as mandatory FLARM without National body approval of a rule change.

It seems crazy to allow this to me, and I can think of no other sport that
does this sort of thing. National comp rules should be a matter for national
consideration, not the whim of a state body.

Regards

Dave L.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robinson,
Peter B
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 8:43 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Or if you call the event a Regatta then you don't need Competitors
licenses nor do you require competition insurance. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
Hart
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 7:54 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

David Nugent wrote:
> Rolf,
>  
> Competition licenses have not been required at past Horsham Weeks 
> (including when they are a State comp), my understanding is that they 
> are only reqd at National level.
It is my understanding that in order to be able to use the GFA
competition insurance cover, all competing pilots must have an FAI
competitor's licence. This is why all competitions in Qld (including the
Easter competition) require competitor's licences.

-- 
Robert Hart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533
http://www.hart.wattle.id.au


___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring


The material contained in this email may be confidential, privileged or
copyrighted. If you are not the intended recipient, use, disclosure or
copying of this information is prohibited. If you have received this
document in error, please advise the sender and delete the document. Neither
OneSteel nor the sender accept responsibility for any viruses contained in
this email or any attachments.

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Comp licences

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Your Club CFI does have to sign the application saying that he/she believes
you are ready for this

level of flying.  You also need two Passport sized photos.

 

SDF 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 10:55 AM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Comp licences 

 

 

I got my licence without prior comp experience, no problem. I assume it is
just a register of who qualifies for the relevant insurances.

Beryl was very helpful and supplied my licence at short notice too.

 

Grant Harper

  _  

 
 Check out the new AOL. Most
comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions
of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

"name any other National sport that allows state organizers to do this".  

 

Motor Sport.

 

There is the CAMS Manual and then each event issues its own Supplementary
Regulations 

referred to as "Sup Regs"

 

SDF

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
Lawley
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 1:47 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

 

Nick said:

 

"Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can, in some
cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules."

 

Yep and that is exactly what seems strange, as I said name any other
National sport that allows state organizers to do this.  

 

A passing comment or two actually doesn't mean a lot of interest in comps
Nick, just an interest in equity of rules.

 

How about addressing the point? (Which I am obviously going to have to
simplify for you) Why are individual states locals be allowed to override
National Championship rules?

 

Regards

 

Dave

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick
Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 12:08 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

 

What you are talking about is states being allowed to apply local rules to a
national contest. Incidently, this (generally speaking) is not a state based
thing. Any location for a competition can specify local rules that can, in
some cases, override certain sections of the nationals rules. 

 

For someone with no interest in competitons you certainly seem to be showing
a lot of interest in competitions.

 

Nick.

 

On 1/30/07, David Lawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Huh? Re read my post Nick- I never said that State rules apply to Nationals,
or nationals rules apply to state comps, I said it seemed strange to allow 
states to change the nationals rules or introduce new ones to suit
themselves when THEY run a particular nationals i.e. I believe (correct me
if I am wrong)mandatory FLARM at recent Queensland held nationals was a 
STATE decision not national body decision.(Note: Example only FLARMnatics
need not respond) National comps should be based on Nationally decided rules
not any one states whim.

Of course, each State can have their own comp rules for state comps-but 
logic would seem to dictate using the same rules as national championships
to help people prepare properly for the next level up of comp.

I will try to find the reference to such matters regarding competing at 
regional competitions to qualify for a comp license (could be a US thing).
BTW I have no interest in comps myself, just thought it strange that the
national rules could be changed at the whim of a state that is holding them,

I know of no other sport that allows this, although I am sure Victoria
wouldn't mind changing some footy rules so they could (maybe) win a
premiership again eventually(-:

Regards

Dave L


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 10:19 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps

Dave,

The nationals rules don't apply to state competitions - they apply to
national competitions. Makes perfect sense to me. The state based
competitions arent modifying the nationals rules - they have their own.
Good thing too, they are entry level events.

The state based cricket competition doesn't play 5 day test matches.

Regards,
 
Nick Gilbert
Lotus Notes Administrator - Hardy Wines





"David Lawley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
30/01/2007 10:03 AM
Please respond to
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."



To
"'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'"

cc

Subject 
RE: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week / VIC State Comps






Hi All,

Whereas I thought I read somewhere that one qualified for a FAI comp
license
in part by entering regional competitions, a bit of a catch 22 this eh? 

No license, no compete, no compete no license! Why am I not surprised!

One thing I have never been able to fathom is how States are allowed to
modify the nationals rules at will, it seems to me they should be decided 
Nationally, and states should not be able to tack on their own extras,
such
as mandatory FLARM without National body approval of a rule change.

It seems crazy to allow this to me, and I can think of no other sport that 
does this sort of thing. National comp rules should be a matter for
national
consideration, not the whim of a state body.

Regards

Dave L.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robinson,
Peter B
Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 8:43 AM 
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soari

RE: [Aus-soaring] Hydration and nutrition made simple

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Several years ago our club had a "Pilots Night" presentation by an 
AIS nutrition expert and one of the things I remember and have used 
during my flight preparation is to drink about 500ml of an electrolyte
sports drink approx 90 minutes prior to launch time. 

We were advised that one of the benefits of these products is
they help retain hydration, however she also advised us to take more
drinking water then we expected to need and if possible have equipment 
that allows us to pee in flight. 

Round the bar I have been surprised to hear just how many pilots cannot
or have not been able to pee in flight - something to do with the seating
position and that is a whole new topic :) 

SDF 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce
Taylor
Sent: Thursday, 1 February 2007 9:32 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Hydration and nutrition made simple

In my experience it takes some time for my body to become accustomed to 
dealing with high levels of fluid intake and loss. The effect is that if I 
did no prior preparation, I would almost certainly be dehydrated at some 
level during the first few days of a flying session, comp or whatever. 
Despite the level of fluid intake being high enough, it simply passes 
through my system and exits the pee-tube, without being absorbed. Imagine 
pouring water on a totally dry pot plant... it all runs out the bottom until

the soil becomes moist, then it is much more readily absorbed.

If I were to begin my preparation on the morning of a flight, it is already 
too late. My usual plan is to begin a well-above-average intake of water a 
few days before I leave for a comp, then my system is ready to handle the 
volume when the time comes. I might add that my work is quite physically 
active, and I still find gliding another big step up in fluid requirements. 
If you have a sedentary-style work then it probably means an even greater 
change.

Any medical comment on this idea?

BT.


- Original Message - 
From: "Ashford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" 

Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 8:25 PM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Hydration and nutrition made simple


> JR
>
> That is indeed my experience.  When working in ceilings and in 
> circumstances
> that are very hot, I find I cannot drink enough cold water.  I like to 
> drink
> cool water but will drink warm water in preference to icy cold.  Even then
> sometimes I cannot keep up and I judge my hydration by the amount of times

> I
> wee.
>
> regards
> John Ashford
> 07 3822 4264
> 0409679867

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Toowoomba: New Job

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Adam
Firstly congratulations on the new job, you have now 
served your apprenticeship in the north, welcome back to 
civilization.  

Looks like the new boss operates good equipment :) you're based in a good
town/city, all those gliding clubs to chose from AND all those female Uni
students to take out - your in pilot heaven - almost.

SDF

PS - sorry I can't help you with a room. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam
Woolley
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2007 12:29 PM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Toowoomba: New Job

I thought the gliding community were a good, kind, close-knit group, and 
they maybe able to help me out.  I know I'd rather find someone that I 
semi-know, then taking my chance (which I'll probably have to do all the 
same) with a stranger.  Thought asking the question couldn't hurt...


Adam


>From: "Geoff Kidd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in 
>Australia."
>To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in 
>Australia."
>Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Toowoomba: New Job
>Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 11:58:24 +1100
>
>I assume all other members of this forum will now advise what jobs they are

>in, where they work or what new jobs they have taken.
>
>It can also become a Real Estate Rental forum as well as a base for self 
>promotion.
>
>Gz. Give us a break Adam.
>
>
>   - Original Message -
>   From: Adam Woolley
>   To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>   Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 11:25 AM
>   Subject: [Aus-soaring] Toowoomba: New Job
>
>
>   G'day All,
>
>   I've just accepted a new job in Toowoomba, flying for 
>www.austrekair.com.au
>   - starting on 19 Feb.  Just wondering if there's someone on this list 
>that
>   may have a room for rent in Toowoomba?
>
>
>   'MMMmmm, 4 gliding clubs to choose from...' dribbles Adam
>
>   _
>   Advertisement: It's simple! Sell your car for just $20 at 
>carsales.com.au
>   
>http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%
2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801577%2Fpi%5F1005244%2F
ai%5F838588&_t=757768878&_r=endtext_simple&_m=EXT
>
>   ___
>   Aus-soaring mailing list
>   Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>   To check or change subscription details, visit:
>   http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring


>___
>Aus-soaring mailing list
>Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>To check or change subscription details, visit:
>http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

_
Advertisement: Getting married? Tell us why to WIN @ LetsShop 
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eletsshop%2Ecom%2FCompe
titions%2FLetsMarry%2Ftabid%2F549%2FDefault%2Easpx&_t=751480117&_r=HM_taglin
e_letsshop_wedding&_m=EXT

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Many years ago (in my early flight service career) we were hearing about
this guy south of Halls Creek 

who was mustering in a fixed wing aircraft during the day and boasting at
the camp fire at night that this 

aircraft he was flying “could not stall or spin”. Unfortunately within the
week he had crashed; eye witness 

reports indicated that he had spun in! 

 

Alan – may I point you to the following manual.. 

 

The Power Pilot’s “Flight Instructor’s Manual”  DA2342 (Rev5/88) Exercise 13
(Page 81) Para. 3 

says

 

“Instruction and practice in the fully developed spin is not a mandatory
exercise when the student is being taught to fly on certain types of
aeroplanes. However, whether the full spin is demonstrated or not, and even
though the student may have experienced the incipient spin while practicing
stalling, he must be given sufficient further instruction in the incipient
spin stage in order to be fully familiar with the recognition and prevention
of the spin before it develops fully” 

 

The practical interoperation of this was, if you were being taught in an
aircraft that was certified for spin manoeuvre it 

had to be taught, if not the above watered down version was the minimum
standard and we know today that not many

flying schools have aerobatic aircraft on line. I would suggest that many of
today’s instructors would have been taught by people who had not been fully
taught how to spin and in turn pass this onto their students some of whom
will become the next generation of instructors. 

 

I have been in an inadvertent spin while playing the corner of the
performance envelope with a Level 3 (in a Puch no less) , 

the correct correction was applied and the aircraft returned to normal
flight within 500ft, and I fail to see what the big deal is

– spins are fun :-) 

 

SDF

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan WIlson
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 1:20 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

 

Well what would we do if we found a Polish [or any] glider that would not
spin?  Could we certify it?

 

GFA still fears WW I spins,  and w have to teach spin training, even have to
make students spin and recover.  Whereas our powered brethren gave it up
shortly after Pontius  

 

We should embrace a design that will not spin, and concentrate on teaching
safe speed [and emphasise horizon attitude, not speed] near the ground so
spins are unnecessary.

 

SMFSLT

 

Alan Wilson

 

PS Would you intentionally spin an ASH 25, DG 1000, or even your ASW 20.
.   and Why?

-Original Message- 

 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick
Gilbert
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 10:09 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pirat

Does anyone know of a Polish glider that wont spin?

 

Nick.

 

On 2/12/07, Kittel, Stephen W (ETSA) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Jonoh, Jarek (and others).

 

I never meant that it wouldn't spin, just that the German club who owned the
speciment that I flew preferred that us aussies didn't spin their aircraft
(which I subsequently found out was due to a fatal accident the week before
we arrived). Cathy and I spun their Bocian, but when flying with one of the
senior club instructors in the DG1000, he was very reluctant to spin that
too. I hasten to add, it wasn't because the"Germans don't teach spinning"
which is an untrue meme often found in Australia. Their reluctance was a
combination of what had recently happened and the unknown quantity of us
"spin mad" Aussies descending on their club. 

>From my incipients etc in the Pirat, I would expect it to behave "like any
60s wooden glider" ie _slightly_ more spin/departure prone than most latter
glass gliders, but in a spin (and during recovery) behave in a text book
manner (ie honest, no surprises). 

 

Regards

SWK

 

 


  _  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ] On Behalf Of Jonoh
Sent: Saturday, 10 February 2007 5:22 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.

Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pirat




 



I flew several hundred hours in a club owned Pirat, from 1975 to 83.  There
were two others based in the vicinity and I have a photo somewhere of the 3
of them lined up on the Upper Valley club Strip near Wellington NZ.  

 

I can likewise confirm that the Pirat will spin.  A long time ago now but I
think it had fairly benign characteristics, and standard recovery techniques
resulted in a quick exit from the spin.  Like its stable mates, the SZD Foka
and Cobra, it was good for a reasonable range of aerobatic maneuvers.  The
Cobra was the pick of the 3 for aerobatics, but the Pirat wasn't too bad.
Its repertoire included a maneuver called, I think, the snap half roll, but
I only knew one club member brave e

RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Nice story Allan :-) 

 

I remember being told my radio procedures were not up to scratch by an
instructor during a Bi-annual once,

he did not know I had been both Flight Service and ATC, what he really
didn't like was I did not have to think

much about them :-) .  

 

I have just been in touch with a work colleague of mine who is also holds a
power instructors rating, they only 

teach up to the incipient stage these days, I know there are no aerobatic
aircraft where he teaches..

 

Spins are Fun - aerobatics are fun - we used to practice spins, recovering
to a pre-nominated heading during 

the second turn, and during my initial instruction we would practice a
manoeuvre we called the Falling Leaf" where 

we would incipient left and right one after the other like a falling autumn
leaf for about 1000ft.  

 

Maybe people are being told/taught that spins are scary; people believe
their instructors therefore it becomes 

fact.

 

SDF

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
Armistead
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 3:36 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

 

While I stop short of saying "spins are fun" I'm very pleased to have been
taught spins and recovery as part of my gliding training. If only to
underline the fact that I don't want to put myself in a situation where I
accidentally happen upon one.

 

I was really surprised when I subsequently did my power training to find
that we did nothing beyond basic stalls and recovery.

 

Stuart Ferguson said (talking about power aircraft and spins);

 

"I would suggest that many of today's instructors would have been taught by
people who had not been fully taught how to spin and in turn pass this onto
their students some of whom will become the next generation of instructors"

 

Reminds me of the story of one of our very experienced (gliding) instructors
doing his power licence and the young lady instructor "teaching" him forced
landings. They had a bit of a difference of opinion on how best to select a
suitable field and set up the circuit. I believe the conversation went
something along these lines...

 

He "How many real forced landings have you actually done?"

 

She "None"

 

He "Well I've done dozens and this is how I do them..."

 

Allan Armistead
ph (02) 6249 6470, mobile 0413 013 911
PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519

 

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Touchy - gender is not relevant - BUT age does = experience in most cases.
I like my instructors to have grey hair :-) . 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Davis, Jo
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 3:55 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

 

Overall point of the comment taken, but I missed the relevance of the age
and gender of the power instructor.

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
Armistead
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 2:36 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

 

While I stop short of saying "spins are fun" I'm very pleased to have been
taught spins and recovery as part of my gliding training. If only to
underline the fact that I don't want to put myself in a situation where I
accidentally happen upon one.

 

I was really surprised when I subsequently did my power training to find
that we did nothing beyond basic stalls and recovery.

 

Stuart Ferguson said (talking about power aircraft and spins);

 

"I would suggest that many of today's instructors would have been taught by
people who had not been fully taught how to spin and in turn pass this onto
their students some of whom will become the next generation of instructors"

 

Reminds me of the story of one of our very experienced (gliding) instructors
doing his power licence and the young lady instructor "teaching" him forced
landings. They had a bit of a difference of opinion on how best to select a
suitable field and set up the circuit. I believe the conversation went
something along these lines...

 

He "How many real forced landings have you actually done?"

 

She "None"

 

He "Well I've done dozens and this is how I do them..."

 

Allan Armistead
ph (02) 6249 6470, mobile 0413 013 911
PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519

 

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

[Aus-soaring] ..........how did we get from Spin training to age related topics

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Guess you did not notice if it had a P Plate on it either. 

 

SDF   

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
Armistead
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 4:12 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

 

Age relates to low experience.

 

Gender has no relevance but that's how the story was relayed to me. 

 

I was nearly run off the road on Saturday by a person in a 4WD (overtaking
across a double line). It all happened so quick and I was too busy avoiding
the head on to notice the sex of the driver, or I would probably be saying
"a guy" or "a girl" in relaying the story. I expect if I post the details on
a newsgroup some sensitive 4WD driver will ask me "what is the relevance of
the type of vehicle" and it's not relevant (any more than the sex of the
driver is relevant) but it's a fact of the story.

 

Allan Armistead
ph (02) 6249 6470, mobile 0413 013 911
PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Davis, Jo
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 15:55
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

Overall point of the comment taken, but I missed the relevance of the age
and gender of the power instructor.

 


  _  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
Armistead
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 2:36 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

 

While I stop short of saying "spins are fun" I'm very pleased to have been
taught spins and recovery as part of my gliding training. If only to
underline the fact that I don't want to put myself in a situation where I
accidentally happen upon one.

 

I was really surprised when I subsequently did my power training to find
that we did nothing beyond basic stalls and recovery.

 

Stuart Ferguson said (talking about power aircraft and spins);

 

"I would suggest that many of today's instructors would have been taught by
people who had not been fully taught how to spin and in turn pass this onto
their students some of whom will become the next generation of instructors"

 

Reminds me of the story of one of our very experienced (gliding) instructors
doing his power licence and the young lady instructor "teaching" him forced
landings. They had a bit of a difference of opinion on how best to select a
suitable field and set up the circuit. I believe the conversation went
something along these lines...

 

He "How many real forced landings have you actually done?"

 

She "None"

 

He "Well I've done dozens and this is how I do them..."

 

Allan Armistead
ph (02) 6249 6470, mobile 0413 013 911
PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519

 

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] ..........how did we get from Spin training to age related topics

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

I thought a Hybrid was one of those funny cars that have both an electric
and 

a petrol engine, usually about Corolla size  - do they make 4WD hybrids and
can 

you do an out landing retrieve in one in NSW without the local Bush Fire
brigade 

in tow - there is a topic in it self.

 

SDF.

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David and
Justine Olsen
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 6:20 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ..how did we get from Spin training to
agerelated topics

 

Was it 4WD, AWD or Hybrid :-)

 

It is critical. :-)

 

 

 


  _  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
Armistead
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 4:12 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

 

Age relates to low experience.

 

Gender has no relevance but that's how the story was relayed to me. 

 

I was nearly run off the road on Saturday by a person in a 4WD (overtaking
across a double line). It all happened so quick and I was too busy avoiding
the head on to notice the sex of the driver, or I would probably be saying
"a guy" or "a girl" in relaying the story. I expect if I post the details on
a newsgroup some sensitive 4WD driver will ask me "what is the relevance of
the type of vehicle" and it's not relevant (any more than the sex of the
driver is relevant) but it's a fact of the story.

 

Allan Armistead
ph (02) 6249 6470, mobile 0413 013 911
PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Davis, Jo
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 15:55
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

Overall point of the comment taken, but I missed the relevance of the age
and gender of the power instructor.

 


  _  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
Armistead
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 2:36 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

 

While I stop short of saying "spins are fun" I'm very pleased to have been
taught spins and recovery as part of my gliding training. If only to
underline the fact that I don't want to put myself in a situation where I
accidentally happen upon one.

 

I was really surprised when I subsequently did my power training to find
that we did nothing beyond basic stalls and recovery.

 

Stuart Ferguson said (talking about power aircraft and spins);

 

"I would suggest that many of today's instructors would have been taught by
people who had not been fully taught how to spin and in turn pass this onto
their students some of whom will become the next generation of instructors"

 

Reminds me of the story of one of our very experienced (gliding) instructors
doing his power licence and the young lady instructor "teaching" him forced
landings. They had a bit of a difference of opinion on how best to select a
suitable field and set up the circuit. I believe the conversation went
something along these lines...

 

He "How many real forced landings have you actually done?"

 

She "None"

 

He "Well I've done dozens and this is how I do them..."

 

Allan Armistead
ph (02) 6249 6470, mobile 0413 013 911
PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519

 

___

Aus-soaring mailing list

Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net

To check or change subscription details, visit:

http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

 

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] ..........how did we get from Spin training toagerelated topics

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

Allan - I am confused - when is an AWD not a 4WD - unless it has more than 4
wheels of course?  

 

SDF 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
Armistead
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 10:19 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] ..how did we get from Spin training
toagerelated topics

 

Well it certainly wasn't a Toyota Prius so it wasn't a hybrid

 

And I was driving an AWD and it wasn't me

 

So by a process of elimination from the choices you've given me it was a 4WD

 

 

Allan Armistead
ph (02) 6249 6470, mobile 0413 013 911
PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David and
Justine Olsen
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 18:20
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ..how did we get from Spin training to
agerelated topics

Was it 4WD, AWD or Hybrid :-) 

 

It is critical. :-)

 

 




  _  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
Armistead
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 4:12 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

Age relates to low experience.

Gender has no relevance but that's how the story was relayed to me. 

I was nearly run off the road on Saturday by a person in a 4WD (overtaking
across a double line). It all happened so quick and I was too busy avoiding
the head on to notice the sex of the driver, or I would probably be saying
"a guy" or "a girl" in relaying the story. I expect if I post the details on
a newsgroup some sensitive 4WD driver will ask me "what is the relevance of
the type of vehicle" and it's not relevant (any more than the sex of the
driver is relevant) but it's a fact of the story.

Allan Armistead
ph (02) 6249 6470, mobile 0413 013 911
PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Davis, Jo
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 15:55
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

Overall point of the comment taken, but I missed the relevance of the age
and gender of the power instructor.



  _  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
Armistead
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 2:36 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

While I stop short of saying "spins are fun" I'm very pleased to have been
taught spins and recovery as part of my gliding training. If only to
underline the fact that I don't want to put myself in a situation where I
accidentally happen upon one.

I was really surprised when I subsequently did my power training to find
that we did nothing beyond basic stalls and recovery.

Stuart Ferguson said (talking about power aircraft and spins);

"I would suggest that many of today's instructors would have been taught by
people who had not been fully taught how to spin and in turn pass this onto
their students some of whom will become the next generation of instructors"

Reminds me of the story of one of our very experienced (gliding) instructors
doing his power licence and the young lady instructor "teaching" him forced
landings. They had a bit of a difference of opinion on how best to select a
suitable field and set up the circuit. I believe the conversation went
something along these lines...

He "How many real forced landings have you actually done?"

She "None"

He "Well I've done dozens and this is how I do them..."

Allan Armistead
ph (02) 6249 6470, mobile 0413 013 911
PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519

___

Aus-soaring mailing list

Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net

To check or change subscription details, visit:

http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

 

___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

RE: [Aus-soaring] ..........how did we get from Spin trainingtoagerelated topics

[Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON]

David - it is all marketing B/S - the attached photo was of the side panel
of a car I once owned,

it clearly says 4WD but by your definition it would be an AWD - was Mr
Toyota wrong?

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David and
Justine Olsen
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 10:57 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ..how did we get from Spin
trainingtoagerelated topics

 

Apart from your not 4 wheels version, an AWD cannot select 2WD

a 4WD can

 

On 12/02/2007, at 9:51 PM, Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON wrote:





Allan - I am confused - when is an AWD not a 4WD - unless it has more than 4
wheels of course?  

 

SDF 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
Armistead
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 10:19 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] ..how did we get from Spin training
toagerelated topics

 

Well it certainly wasn't a Toyota Prius so it wasn't a hybrid

 

And I was driving an AWD and it wasn't me

 

So by a process of elimination from the choices you've given me it was a 4WD

 

 

Allan Armistead
ph (02) 6249 6470, mobile 0413 013 911
PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David and
Justine Olsen
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 18:20
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ..how did we get from Spin training to
agerelated topics

Was it 4WD, AWD or Hybrid :-) 

 

It is critical. :-)

 

 




  _  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
Armistead
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 4:12 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

Age relates to low experience.

Gender has no relevance but that's how the story was relayed to me. 

I was nearly run off the road on Saturday by a person in a 4WD (overtaking
across a double line). It all happened so quick and I was too busy avoiding
the head on to notice the sex of the driver, or I would probably be saying
"a guy" or "a girl" in relaying the story. I expect if I post the details on
a newsgroup some sensitive 4WD driver will ask me "what is the relevance of
the type of vehicle" and it's not relevant (any more than the sex of the
driver is relevant) but it's a fact of the story.

Allan Armistead
ph (02) 6249 6470, mobile 0413 013 911
PO Box 908, Dickson ACT 2602, Australia

"When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been and there you always will be."
Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Davis, Jo
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 15:55
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

Overall point of the comment taken, but I missed the relevance of the age
and gender of the power instructor.



  _  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan
Armistead
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 2:36 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not spin...

While I stop short of saying "spins are fun" I'm very pleased to have been
taught spins and recovery as part of my gliding training. If only to
underline the fact that I don't want to put myself in a situation where I
accidentally happen upon one.

I was really surprised when I subsequently did my power training to find
that we did nothing beyond basic stalls and recovery.

Stuart Ferguson said (talking about power aircraft and spins);

"I would suggest that many of today's instructors would have been taught by
people who had not been fully taught how to spin and in turn pass this onto
their students some of whom will become the next generation of instructors"

Reminds me of the story of one of our very experienced (gliding) instructors
doing his power licence and the young lady instructor "teaching" him forced
landings. They had a bit of a difference of opinion on how best to select a
suitable field and set up the circuit. I believe the conversation went
something along these lines...

He "How many real forced landings have you actually done?"

She "None"

He "Well I've done dozens and this is how I do them..."

Allan Armistead
ph (02) 6249 6470, mobile 0413 013 911
PO Box 908,