[Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
Ok. This is a rant and you can remove it from the list if you want to later. I just have to vent. Bacula is incredibly complex to setup. Its taken 4 months and its still not working correctly. Things that should be easy that Bacula makes overly complex: Labeling tapes Assigning tapes to pools Reassigning tapes to pools Managing disk media Things Bacula can't seem to get right: Detecting a tape is in the drive and using it Even though the correctly labeled tape is in the drive, and has the right Volume label, and is marked "Append", and is from the correct Pool Bacula is still waiting for a mount request. Every external program recognizes that the tape is in the drive and mounted. Not Bacula Catalog entries. I've not had a single backup job where the right entries made it into the Catalog Windows hosts. Good luck figuring out the esoteric path syntax because its different in different chapters of the manual and also different depending on which part of the config you are editing Basically I can't see that its useable for anything more than backing up a single system, and even then better be careful. I'm going with Arkeia Network Backup. Might cost money, but at least it will work as advertised which is more than can be said for Crapula - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
On 21 Nov 2007 at 8:07, Shon Stephens wrote: > Ok. This is a rant and you can remove it from the list if you want to > later. I just have to vent. > > Bacula is incredibly complex to setup. Its taken 4 months and its > still not working correctly. You are unique. > Things that should be easy that Bacula makes overly complex: > > Labeling tapes > Assigning tapes to pools > Reassigning tapes to pools > Managing disk media > > Things Bacula can't seem to get right: > > Detecting a tape is in the drive and using it > Even though the correctly labeled tape is in the drive, and has the > right Volume label, and is marked "Append", and is from the correct > Pool > Bacula is still waiting for a mount request. Every external program > recognizes that the tape is in the drive and mounted. Not Bacula > > Catalog entries. I've not had a single backup job where the right > entries made it into the Catalog > > Windows hosts. Good luck figuring out the esoteric path syntax because > its different in different chapters of the manual and also different > depending on which part of the config you are editing > > Basically I can't see that its useable for anything more than backing > up a single system, and even then better be careful. > > I'm going with Arkeia Network Backup. Might cost money, but at least > it will work as advertised which is more than can be said for Crapula Oh, and here I thought you were going to ask for more help. Oh well. Good luck to you. I hope the parting shots improve things for you. -- Dan Langille - PGCon - http://www.pgcon.org/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
Hi, 21.11.2007 14:07,, Shon Stephens wrote:: > Ok. This is a rant and you can remove it from the list if you want to > later. I just have to vent. I don't think your mail will be removed as that's rather difficult with a mailing list :-) > Bacula is incredibly complex to setup. Its taken 4 months and its > still not working correctly. Now that's astonishing... four months after my initial contact with Bacula I had a number of customer setups running, using disks and tapes. > Things that should be easy that Bacula makes overly complex: > > Labeling tapes > Assigning tapes to pools > Reassigning tapes to pools > Managing disk media I really don't understand where that is overly complex. Doing all this is only one line in bconsole, beyond what you set up in the configuration. Even the configuration of a pool usually needs less than ten lines of text. > Things Bacula can't seem to get right: > > Detecting a tape is in the drive and using it > Even though the correctly labeled tape is in the drive, and has the > right Volume label, and is marked "Append", and is from the correct > Pool > Bacula is still waiting for a mount request. Every external program > recognizes that the tape is in the drive and mounted. Not Bacula Hard to comment on - the one issue we discussed wasn't really resolved, but that's something I can't exactly reproduce. My customers system, where I encountered that, works correctly with 2.2.5. > Catalog entries. I've not had a single backup job where the right > entries made it into the Catalog I can't reproduce that. > Windows hosts. Good luck figuring out the esoteric path syntax because > its different in different chapters of the manual and also different > depending on which part of the config you are editing Examples, perhaps even suggestions how to improve that? > Basically I can't see that its useable for anything more than backing > up a single system, and even then better be careful. I can confirm that many users, even really big ones, can rely on Bacula for their backups. > I'm going with Arkeia Network Backup. Might cost money, but at least > it will work as advertised which is more than can be said for Crapula Good luck with Arkeia. I found it to be extremely unreliable, for example with its license assignments. I never got a whole set of backups to complete correctly - something always got stuck, crashed, had to be re-configured, or something. Admittedly, that's some time ago, but then I switched to Bacula... Arno -- Arno Lehmann IT-Service Lehmann www.its-lehmann.de - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
Shon Stephens a écrit : > Ok. This is a rant and you can remove it from the list if you want to > later. I just have to vent. > > Bacula is incredibly complex to setup. Its taken 4 months and its > still not working correctly. > > Things that should be easy that Bacula makes overly complex: > > Labeling tapes > Assigning tapes to pools > Reassigning tapes to pools > Managing disk media > > Things Bacula can't seem to get right: > > Detecting a tape is in the drive and using it > Even though the correctly labeled tape is in the drive, and has the > right Volume label, and is marked "Append", and is from the correct > Pool > Bacula is still waiting for a mount request. Every external program > recognizes that the tape is in the drive and mounted. Not Bacula > > Catalog entries. I've not had a single backup job where the right > entries made it into the Catalog > > Windows hosts. Good luck figuring out the esoteric path syntax because > its different in different chapters of the manual and also different > depending on which part of the config you are editing > > Basically I can't see that its useable for anything more than backing > up a single system, and even then better be careful. > > I'm going with Arkeia Network Backup. Might cost money, but at least > it will work as advertised which is more than can be said for Crapula > > You are a nice person, your good humor will be missed for us all. LS. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
> Ok. This is a rant and you can remove it from the list if you want to > later. I just have to vent. > > Bacula is incredibly complex to setup. Its taken 4 months and its > still not working correctly. > > If you would have asked questions about the problems you were experiencing we would have helped. > > Things that should be easy that Bacula makes overly complex: > > Labeling tapes > Assigning tapes to pools > Reassigning tapes to pools > Managing disk media > These are all very easy and menu driven. > Things Bacula can't seem to get right: > > Detecting a tape is in the drive and using it > Even though the correctly labeled tape is in the drive, and has the > right Volume label, and is marked "Append", and is from the correct > Pool > Bacula is still waiting for a mount request. Every external program > recognizes that the tape is in the drive and mounted. Not Bacula > If you issue an unmount on the loaded tape you must issue a mount on the next tape. If you issue a release on the loaded tape you do not have to issue the mount command in the console if you have bacula configured correctly. > > Catalog entries. I've not had a single backup job where the right > entries made it into the Catalog > > Windows hosts. Good luck figuring out the esoteric path syntax because > its different in different chapters of the manual and also different > depending on which part of the config you are editing > This is easy. Use / instead of \ > > Basically I can't see that its useable for anything more than backing > up a single system, and even then better be careful. > I backup 50+ computers over gigabit network with the director, database and storage on different machines. Actually I have several bacula-sd machines because I have a few tape drives / libraries and I also use file storage on some of my large servers. > > I'm going with Arkeia Network Backup. Might cost money, but at least > it will work as advertised which is more than can be said for Crapula > You are guaranteed to get a lower level of user support than what you have here with that. John - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
--- Dan Langille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 21 Nov 2007 at 8:07, Shon Stephens wrote: > > > Ok. This is a rant and you can remove it from the list if you want to > > later. I just have to vent. > > > > Bacula is incredibly complex to setup. Its taken 4 months and its > > still not working correctly. > > You are unique. Not really, I've been at it for 2 months too now, although I'm admittedly very busy so haven't exactly spent all my time on it. I have mostly problems with documentation and the learning curve, which is especially going to be a problem for those that will use it once I get it all set up (I can't get BAT to compile for example, hopefully the Debian stable package will be updated soon). I'm not going to list everything I have trouble with, I'll just keep asking questions and hopefully someone will answer, since I have not given up on Bacula yet :) ___ Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
> > > > Basically I can't see that its useable for anything more than backing > > up a single system, and even then better be careful. > > > I backup 50+ computers over gigabit network with the director, > database and storage on different machines. Actually I have several > bacula-sd machines because I have a few tape drives / libraries and I > also use file storage on some of my large servers. > I forgot to mention a few things. My computers are a mix of windows and linux machines with the becula servers running on the linux side and I currently have over 15TB of data in my backups that contain around 5 million files. John - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
> I have mostly problems with documentation and the learning curve, which is > especially going to be a problem for those that will use it once I get it > all set up (I can't get BAT to compile for example, hopefully the Debian > stable package will be updated soon). > BAT is a very recent addition to bacula (written mostly by a single developer in his free time) so it has not gone through the kind of testing that the other parts of the system have that have been around for years. John - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
--- John Drescher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have mostly problems with documentation and the learning curve, which > is > > especially going to be a problem for those that will use it once I get > it > > all set up (I can't get BAT to compile for example, hopefully the > Debian > > stable package will be updated soon). > > > BAT is a very recent addition to bacula (written mostly by a single > developer in his free time) so it has not gone through the kind of > testing that the other parts of the system have that have been around > for years. I understand and don't expect miracles, just saying that Bacula currently lacks in the ease of use department for those that can't learn it inside out. For me that means I need a GUI for some colleagues and wouldn't mind using it myself instead of the console. ___ Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/environment.html - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
Like I said its a rant. Probably a poor choice to post, but I've really been having some inexplicable problems lately and kirk'd out something bad this morning. Setting up Bacula to test certain things went relatively smoothly. Its been setting it up for production that has presented its biggest challenges. The documentation is immense and the learning curve is certainly challenging. If it weren't for the support of all the kind folks here, I wouldn't have come as far as I have. For instance, the full abilities of the commands aren't well documented. It required searching the bacula-users posts to discover that I could do "label slots=1-12 pool=scratch barcodes". I did do something foolish the other day when I edited the jobs and ran reload in the console while a job was despooling. The conf wasn't correct (still trying to get the Windows Fileset syntax correct). Well of course the director puked and this is I suppose expected. What I didn't expect is that Bacula wouldn't be able to tell me what happened to the job, or that the data that had been spooled to disk would all be gone. This is when I started running into difficulty attempting to purge the tape and add it back to the scratch pool. In addition, I had a Full backup run on Sunday. I received email that the job was complete and was successful. Querying Bacula for any information regarding the job returned "no reuslts". Looking directly at the tables showed the Filename table did contain the filenames but the Job and File tables were empty. I don't believe this should have been the case, and there was nothing in mysql logs to indicate an error and none in Bacula logs. I am not unwilling to believe that there still could have been an issue with mysql. These are real concerns for me and trying to implement reliable backups. I do apologize to anyone I might have insulted, particularly the hard working Bacula developers. Poor choice of mine to post comments like that. -Shon On Nov 21, 2007 9:20 AM, Foo Bar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- John Drescher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I have mostly problems with documentation and the learning curve, which > > is > > > especially going to be a problem for those that will use it once I get > > it > > > all set up (I can't get BAT to compile for example, hopefully the > > Debian > > > stable package will be updated soon). > > > > > BAT is a very recent addition to bacula (written mostly by a single > > developer in his free time) so it has not gone through the kind of > > testing that the other parts of the system have that have been around > > for years. > > I understand and don't expect miracles, just saying that Bacula currently > lacks in the ease of use department for those that can't learn it inside > out. For me that means I need a GUI for some colleagues and wouldn't mind > using it myself instead of the console. > > > ___ > Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit Yahoo! For Good > http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/environment.html > > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > ___ > Bacula-users mailing list > Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
Shon, If it took you four months to figure out how Bacula works maybe you shouldn't be allowed near any computer! There are ways and means to do things in Bacula and let me tell you this if you couldn't do it or find a way you are really incompetent and again should be allowed to operate a PC. I have Bacula running at several sites without a glitch and backing up over 1 TB of data on one site with a LTO3 Autoloader, and BTW this was done when I was still a novice in the Linux World, so if I could do it anyone canwell it looks like you're the excpetion not the rule. On the Windows side of things there are no problems, I've backuped and restored several machine using Bacula and the Bart PE and with great success. Basically I can't see that its useable for anything more than backing up a single system, and even then better be careful.WHAT, ARE YOU OUT OF FREAKING MIND, YOU NUMB SKULL, here is a tip and I'll try to do this in a language that you might understand LEARN.HOWTOUSE.A..COMPUTER You know what Bacula Usersgood riddance to bad trash and lastely he'll 10 to 1 make a [EMAIL PROTECTED] up of the other software as well! On Wed, 2007-11-21 at 08:07 -0500, Shon Stephens wrote: > Ok. This is a rant and you can remove it from the list if you want to > later. I just have to vent. > > Bacula is incredibly complex to setup. Its taken 4 months and its > still not working correctly. > > Things that should be easy that Bacula makes overly complex: > > Labeling tapes > Assigning tapes to pools > Reassigning tapes to pools > Managing disk media > > Things Bacula can't seem to get right: > > Detecting a tape is in the drive and using it > Even though the correctly labeled tape is in the drive, and has the > right Volume label, and is marked "Append", and is from the correct > Pool > Bacula is still waiting for a mount request. Every external program > recognizes that the tape is in the drive and mounted. Not Bacula > > Catalog entries. I've not had a single backup job where the right > entries made it into the Catalog > > Windows hosts. Good luck figuring out the esoteric path syntax because > its different in different chapters of the manual and also different > depending on which part of the config you are editing > > Basically I can't see that its useable for anything more than backing > up a single system, and even then better be careful. > > I'm going with Arkeia Network Backup. Might cost money, but at least > it will work as advertised which is more than can be said for Crapula > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > ___ > Bacula-users mailing list > Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users > -- Janco van der Merwe Open Solutions Tel: 011 305 2887 Cell: 083 291 8536 Fax: 0866978875 __ Think not those faithful who praise all thy words and actions; but those who kindly reprove thy faults. Socrates - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
Like I said its a rant. Probably a poor choice to post, but I've really been having some inexplicable problems lately and kirk'd out something bad this morning. Setting up Bacula to test certain things went relatively smoothly. Its been setting it up for production that has presented its biggest challenges. The documentation is immense and the learning curve is certainly challenging. If it weren't for the support of all the kind folks here, I wouldn't have come as far as I have. For instance, the full abilities of the commands aren't well documented. It required searching the bacula-users posts to discover that I could do "label slots=1-12 pool=scratch barcodes". I did do something foolish the other day when I edited the jobs and ran reload in the console while a job was despooling. The conf wasn't correct (still trying to get the Windows Fileset syntax correct). Well of course the director puked and this is I suppose expected. What I didn't expect is that Bacula wouldn't be able to tell me what happened to the job, or that the data that had been spooled to disk would all be gone. This is when I started running into difficulty attempting to purge the tape and add it back to the scratch pool. In addition, I had a Full backup run on Sunday. I received email that the job was complete and was successful. Querying Bacula for any information regarding the job returned "no reuslts". Looking directly at the tables showed the Filename table did contain the filenames but the Job and File tables were empty. I don't believe this should have been the case, and there was nothing in mysql logs to indicate an error and none in Bacula logs. I am not unwilling to believe that there still could have been an issue with mysql. These are real concerns for me and trying to implement reliable backups. I do apologize to anyone I might have insulted, particularly the hard working Bacula developers. Poor choice of mine to post comments like that. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
Hi, 21.11.2007 15:43,, Janco van der Merwe wrote:: > Shon, > > If it took you four months to figure out how Bacula works maybe you > shouldn't be allowed near any computer! Janco, calm down please! Even if you or others don't agree with Shon don't resort to name-calling! Bacula as a whole - and that includes the user community we find here - works also (and in my opinion, mainly) because we try to solve problems politely. I, too, probably sound a bit harsh from time to time, but I really try not to insult anyone. Please try to do the same. And then let's see if Shon wants some more directed support later - he wouldn't be the first struggling with the great flexibility Bacula offers. Then we can put some effort into getting him a working Bacula system. That would be much better than starting a flame war, I think. And I hope you all agree :-) Arno -- Arno Lehmann IT-Service Lehmann www.its-lehmann.de - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
Janco van der Merwe wrote: > Shon, > > If it took you four months to figure out how Bacula works maybe you > shouldn't be allowed near any computer! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including me. However, continued belittling of Bacula, Bacula developers, Bacula users, the Bacula disenchanted, or anyone else serves no purpose except to give this mail list a bad reputation. (eeww) If you feel the need to vent, sign up for the PostFix or qmail lists, there is always someone willing to exchange insults there. DAve > > There are ways and means to do things in Bacula and let me tell you this > if you couldn't do it or find a way you are really incompetent and again > should be allowed to operate a PC. > > I have Bacula running at several sites without a glitch and backing up > over 1 TB of data on one site with a LTO3 Autoloader, and BTW this was > done when I was still a novice in the Linux World, so if I could do it > anyone canwell it looks like you're the excpetion not the > rule. > > On the Windows side of things there are no problems, I've backuped and > restored several machine using Bacula and the Bart PE and with great > success. > > Basically I can't see that its useable for anything more than backing up > a single system, and even then better be careful.WHAT, ARE YOU > OUT OF FREAKING MIND, YOU NUMB SKULL, here is a tip and I'll try to do > this in a language that you might understand > LEARN.HOWTOUSE.A..COMPUTER > > You know what Bacula Usersgood riddance to bad trash and lastely > he'll 10 to 1 make a [EMAIL PROTECTED] up of the other software as well! > > > > > > > On Wed, 2007-11-21 at 08:07 -0500, Shon Stephens wrote: >> Ok. This is a rant and you can remove it from the list if you want to >> later. I just have to vent. >> >> Bacula is incredibly complex to setup. Its taken 4 months and its >> still not working correctly. >> >> Things that should be easy that Bacula makes overly complex: >> >> Labeling tapes >> Assigning tapes to pools >> Reassigning tapes to pools >> Managing disk media >> >> Things Bacula can't seem to get right: >> >> Detecting a tape is in the drive and using it >> Even though the correctly labeled tape is in the drive, and has the >> right Volume label, and is marked "Append", and is from the correct >> Pool >> Bacula is still waiting for a mount request. Every external program >> recognizes that the tape is in the drive and mounted. Not Bacula >> >> Catalog entries. I've not had a single backup job where the right >> entries made it into the Catalog >> >> Windows hosts. Good luck figuring out the esoteric path syntax because >> its different in different chapters of the manual and also different >> depending on which part of the config you are editing >> >> Basically I can't see that its useable for anything more than backing >> up a single system, and even then better be careful. >> >> I'm going with Arkeia Network Backup. Might cost money, but at least >> it will work as advertised which is more than can be said for Crapula >> >> - >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft >> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ >> ___ >> Bacula-users mailing list >> Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users >> -- I've been asking Google for a Veteran's Day logo since 2000, maybe 1999. I was told they finally did a Veteran's Day logo, but none of the links I was given return anything but a normal Google logo. Sad, very sad. Maybe the Chinese Government didn't like it? - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
Guys, Sorry, but - there must be a but - I deal with this sort of people everyday and it has come to a point where being nice and keeping quite is not a solutions anymore. Ok, I do understand that Bacula can be difficult some times but that is why this list is theream I wrong? I also have had "blonde" moments and posted it to top it all but at least I got an answer from a lot more patient people than I, the point being, I did a quick search and did not find any posts from this guy asking for help, if I'm wrong on this one please excuse me, and now lashing out on the listis just not on, I don't know maybe I'm wrong. Shon, I apologize sincerely and would like nothing more for you stay with Bacula because it is a brilliant backup solutions, hell I have backed up an entire Windows Domain Controller and restored it as it was and put that exact machine live whilst I reloaded the old DC. Once again I apologize. On Wed, 2007-11-21 at 16:08 +0100, Arno Lehmann wrote: > Hi, > > 21.11.2007 15:43,, Janco van der Merwe wrote:: > > Shon, > > > > If it took you four months to figure out how Bacula works maybe you > > shouldn't be allowed near any computer! > > Janco, calm down please! > > Even if you or others don't agree with Shon don't resort to name-calling! > > Bacula as a whole - and that includes the user community we find here > - works also (and in my opinion, mainly) because we try to solve > problems politely. > > I, too, probably sound a bit harsh from time to time, but I really try > not to insult anyone. Please try to do the same. > > And then let's see if Shon wants some more directed support later - he > wouldn't be the first struggling with the great flexibility Bacula > offers. Then we can put some effort into getting him a working Bacula > system. > > That would be much better than starting a flame war, I think. And I > hope you all agree :-) > > Arno > -- Janco van der Merwe Open Solutions Tel: 011 305 2887 Cell: 083 291 8536 Fax: 0866978875 __ Think not those faithful who praise all thy words and actions; but those who kindly reprove thy faults. Socrates - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
> "DL" == Dan Langille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Bacula is incredibly complex to setup. Its taken 4 months and its >> still not working correctly. DL> You are unique. I doubt he's unique. I constantly think to myself "wow, bacula is really cool; but why isn't it doing that?" The configuration is complex to set up (but with flexibility always comes complexity; and bacula is very flexible). Fortunately there are many good resources to look at, but sorting through them all to find what you want is sometimes difficult. Personally, I've been using it for 2 months. On day one I got it up and running and backing up multiple computers (windows and linux both). But, I've still had issues with it backing up files I didn't want it to (no doubt my fault), failing to write DVDs properly (questionable fault, but I think I've fixed that through a patch to the dvd-handler), failing to recycle volumes that I believe it should (no doubt my fault). But even after all that, the flexibility is very necessary for me and I'm going to keep plugging away at it (just yesterday I had to re-learn that volume longevity for previously created volumes is in the DB, not relearned from a modified config. Which makes sense, but when you're editing the config it's easy to forget). So, let me say: thanks to all the developers of bacula. I know what it's like to run an OSS project and get yelled at (I've started a number at this point). Realize that the vast majority of your users are very happy with your work (myself included). Kudos to you all for your time and even more importantly: your patience in helping us through problems. Outstanding support! One thing that I did with one of my more successful projects was to think of ways to reduce the confusion based on the questions sent to the mailing list. When I got a ton of questions in area X, I decided that area X needed usability improvements. My thinking about it always resulted in less questions about X in the future, which was a plus. Something to consider (or ignore) at will... Now, the down side is that the questions didn't stop. They just got harder. If you remove the easier-to-understand problems users start asking questions about the harder areas of a project because they get farther ;-) Final word: I love bacula and wouldn't switch away from it if I had a choice. But I'm still on the learning curve, and it isn't small. But very very worth it. Thanks again! -- "In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find." -- Terry Pratchett - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
My experiences differ vastly from yours. I have found Bacula to be extremely flexible, approachable and robust. There is a fair bit of complexity in making sure everything works together properly but IMO it is neither disfunctional nor unnecessarily complex. What complexity does exist is necessary to provide the flexibility that is available in Bacula. On Wednesday 21 November 2007 8:07:58 am Shon Stephens wrote: > Bacula is incredibly complex to setup. Its taken 4 months and its > still not working correctly. There is no possible way one could spend 4 months on Bacula and not have it set up properly without some sort of "stumbling block" in that person's mind that prevents them from "getting it right." That "block" could be an assumption on their part or a lack of a base of knowledge about topics not covered in the Bacula documentation. Members of this list are generally helpful in getting people through gaps in their knowledge, gaps in the documentation and/or other stumbling blocks when people are using or trying to get started Bacula. I haven't checked the archives of this list, but I daresay that you probably haven't tapped into the awesome resource that this list represents in your Bacula-related efforts. To rant against Bacula when you haven't made an honest attempt to get it working by working with the readily available help of people of who have gotten it working reflects more a failure on your part than on Bacula itself. > Things that should be easy that Bacula makes overly complex: > > Labeling tapes I find this simple to the point that I don't need to refer to the documentation to type in the command. example: label storage=Quantum-SL3 slots=1-4,7 barcodes pool=Scratch (Labels tapes in my Quantum-SL's slots 1 through 4 and slot 7 using their barcode labels and puts them in the "Scratch" pool.) > Assigning tapes to pools At my site, this is automated. When I initially label them I assign them to the "Scratch" pool and when a new volume/tape is needed in another pool Bacula re-assigns one from the "Scratch" pool. When I need to do so manually, it's a single-line command or a menu-driven series of inputs to accomplish. example: update volname=MDX518L3 pool=MonkeySnot (Assigns volume "MDX518L3" to pool "MonkeySnot") > Reassigning tapes to pools Likewise, it as above for assigning tapes to pools. > Managing disk media Now this I haven't worked with, as I haven't done any backing up to disks. > Things Bacula can't seem to get right: > > Detecting a tape is in the drive and using it > Even though the correctly labeled tape is in the drive, and has the > right Volume label, and is marked "Append", and is from the correct > Pool I think you may be mixing two seperate issues: 1. When you change the tapes that are in a drive, bacula needs to be "told" to update itself, or to examine the tape(s) that are in a device again. It's a simple command of "update slots" will get you a menu-driven Q&A to complete the process. 2. If bacula is constantly asking you to mount a tape that isn't in the drive even though you believe that bacula should happily use the tape that IS in the drive... well. That is a hairy one. I wrote a script that disables any volumes that aren't in the autochanger in order to force Bacula to use/recycle tapes that were loaded vs. requesting "preferable" tapes that were not. I run that script as an admin job before any of my backups run each night. I'd be happy to share that with you if that's the problem you're having. > Bacula is still waiting for a mount request. Every external program > recognizes that the tape is in the drive and mounted. Not Bacula As mentioned by someone else, issue a "mount" to bacula in bconsole and you'll be prompted. > Catalog entries. I've not had a single backup job where the right > entries made it into the Catalog Hrm... Wierd. You apparently have a bad configuration thing going on somewhere or you aren't checking the catalog properly and coming to conclusion that because you can't FIND it in the catalog that it's not making it INTO the catalog. I think bacula errors out of jobs when it can't write to the database, though I am not sure. > Windows hosts. Good luck figuring out the esoteric path syntax because > its different in different chapters of the manual and also different > depending on which part of the config you are editing As mentioned by someone else, simply use / instead of \ in the pathnames. Works for me here. If you're trying to do complex stuff with includes and excludes, yeah, it get complicated. > Basically I can't see that its useable for anything more than backing > up a single system, and even then better be careful. Then I assure you, without any ill intent towards you, that you are somehow missing out on the immense capabilities of Bacula. > I'm going with Arkeia Network Backup. Might cost money, but at least > it will work as advertised which i
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
Hey gang, I think the Bacula project is a good solution for those just need to get the job done; nothin' flashy. Having said that, the manual needs to be split into a technical manual and a HOWTO guide. The HOWTO guide would have plenty of examples and even more references to the technical manual. The single most helpful example for me (and perhaps others) _would_ have been a walk through for setting up the .conf files to backup/verify/restore files from multiple systems. Bar none! Without that, the learning curve is steep especially for those with little time to implement a good solution. For the record, I too am trying to figure out why a mounted & labeled tape in the correct pool will not be recognized...but that's another thread. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ David Gardner email: djgardner(at)yahoo.com Yahoo! IM: djgardner AIM: dgardner09 "Everything is a learning experience, even a mistake." - Original Message From: Wes Hardaker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Dan Langille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: bacula-users Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:02:57 AM Subject: Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula >>>>> "DL" == Dan Langille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Bacula is incredibly complex to setup. Its taken 4 months and its >> still not working correctly. DL> You are unique. I doubt he's unique. I constantly think to myself "wow, bacula is really cool; but why isn't it doing that?" The configuration is complex to set up (but with flexibility always comes complexity; and bacula is very flexible). Fortunately there are many good resources to look at, but sorting through them all to find what you want is sometimes difficult. Personally, I've been using it for 2 months. On day one I got it up and running and backing up multiple computers (windows and linux both). But, I've still had issues with it backing up files I didn't want it to (no doubt my fault), failing to write DVDs properly (questionable fault, but I think I've fixed that through a patch to the dvd-handler), failing to recycle volumes that I believe it should (no doubt my fault). But even after all that, the flexibility is very necessary for me and I'm going to keep plugging away at it (just yesterday I had to re-learn that volume longevity for previously created volumes is in the DB, not relearned from a modified config. Which makes sense, but when you're editing the config it's easy to forget). So, let me say: thanks to all the developers of bacula. I know what it's like to run an OSS project and get yelled at (I've started a number at this point). Realize that the vast majority of your users are very happy with your work (myself included). Kudos to you all for your time and even more importantly: your patience in helping us through problems. Outstanding support! One thing that I did with one of my more successful projects was to think of ways to reduce the confusion based on the questions sent to the mailing list. When I got a ton of questions in area X, I decided that area X needed usability improvements. My thinking about it always resulted in less questions about X in the future, which was a plus. Something to consider (or ignore) at will... Now, the down side is that the questions didn't stop. They just got harder. If you remove the easier-to-understand problems users start asking questions about the harder areas of a project because they get farther ;-) Final word: I love bacula and wouldn't switch away from it if I had a choice. But I'm still on the learning curve, and it isn't small. But very very worth it. Thanks again! -- "In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find." -- Terry Pratchett - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
On 11/21/07 7:11 AM, "Foo Bar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > all set up (I can't get BAT to compile for example, hopefully the Debian > stable package will be updated soon). > Debian stable will never get the new version until Lenny is released as stable. I've used the testing and sid packages in Lenny without any problems. Beware that 2.2.5 is stuck in sid until the new version of qt4 fixes dependencies. Robert Robert LeBlanc College of Life Sciences Computer Support Brigham Young University [EMAIL PROTECTED] (801)422-1882 - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
On 11/21/07 9:02 AM, "Wes Hardaker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Final word: I love bacula and wouldn't switch away from it if I had a > choice. But I'm still on the learning curve, and it isn't small. But > very very worth it. Thanks again! I've seen Bacula as an enterprise level product. Everything that I've done that is enterprise level has had a steep learning curve and Bacula is no different. It is extremely flexible, and to be able to separate the components (dir, database and storage) is great and one of the strong points I think. It also comes with the downside of a lot more configuration (you have to get the dir, database and storage to all talk even if they are on the same machine). Anytime I start on some new enterprise thing, I always try and understand the concept as much as possible before starting in the configuration. I think once I dedicated the time to Bacula, I had it backing up 20 machines (linux, Windows and Mac) using a LTO2 tape library on virtual hardware in about 2 weeks. I contribute that to understanding the concept before I started configuring. I had a student working with me and I had to teach him the concepts so it helped me understand it better. I strongly suggest teaching someone with whom you work about how Bacula works and you will understand it better even if they don't use it. I know Shon had it working before he moved it to production and then ran into problems. I had my fair share of problems with we went to production as well. Some things you just learn the hard way (like reloading the director config while a job is running). Making sure you have enough disk space for you SQL database, etc. Sometimes it just requires classes from the School of Hard Knocks. That is where your experience can help others in the future, either through the list or your revisions to the manual. Stick with Bacula and you will be happy with it. Ask questions. I've asked questions that no one has answered. Does that mean that the product stinks? No, I've just done some things that no one has encountered and they didn't have an answer for. Sometimes I've answered my own questions and posted back to the list with the solution so that there is a history of it. This group is very helpful if you ask. Robert Robert LeBlanc College of Life Sciences Computer Support Brigham Young University [EMAIL PROTECTED] (801)422-1882 - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
> >> Bacula is incredibly complex to setup. Its taken 4 months and > >> its still not working correctly. > > DL> You are unique. > > I doubt he's unique. I constantly think to myself "wow, bacula is > really cool; but why isn't it doing that?" > > The configuration is complex to set up (but with flexibility always > comes complexity; and bacula is very flexible). Fortunately there > are many good resources to look at, but sorting through them all to > find what you want is sometimes difficult. > > Personally, I've been using it for 2 months. On day one I got it > up and running and backing up multiple computers (windows and > linux both). I've been using Bacula for approx 1 month now to backup a range of servers (Linux + Windows 2003) and an office full of Windows XP/Vista machines. Before moving to Bacula I was a fairly happy Amanda user, the only gripe I had with Amanda for a very long time was "proper" Windows client support (I now believe there is a native Windows client). Just over a month ago I decided to evaluate Bacula. After a few days of hacking configuration scripts & virtually re-writing the "fake autoloader" mtx-changer script[1] I had a fully operational backup system. For a couple of weeks I ran Bacula & Amanda side-by-side and last week made the decision to completely shut off Amanda. When first starting out, Bacula appears to be extremely complex. Spending a bit of time reading the docs, wiki & example configs before diving in can work wonders! Sean [1] A copy of my very hacky script can be found on the Bacula wiki at http://wiki.bacula.org/doku.php?id=sample_configs#faking_an_auto-changer _with_one_tape_drive - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007, Shon Stephens wrote: > For instance, the full abilities of the commands aren't well > documented. They're there, just that you do have to read the entire manual BEFORE starting to set it up. groking why it does things is 3/4 of the effort. once you umderstand the philosophy then it's a lot easier to understand > It required searching the bacula-users posts to discover > that I could do "label slots=1-12 pool=scratch barcodes". There's no need to label blank tapes. Just "add" the entries to the appropriate pools, apply matching barcodes and update slots. When bacula encounters a blank tape which is has no record of having written to before, it will throw a read error and then label it. > I did do something foolish the other day when I edited the jobs and > ran reload in the console while a job was despooling. Always run bacula-dir -t bacula-dir.conf before reloading. This is no different to Sendmail or Bind operations. > The conf wasn't > correct (still trying to get the Windows Fileset syntax correct). Well > of course the director puked and this is I suppose expected. What I > didn't expect is that Bacula wouldn't be able to tell me what happened > to the job, or that the data that had been spooled to disk would all > be gone. The data is there. The database entries aren't - because you're spooling, the data entries are all spooled to disk and written en masse when the job ends. > This is when I started running into difficulty attempting to > purge the tape and add it back to the scratch pool. What kind of errors? Why bother adding it back to the scratch pool? > In addition, I had > a Full backup run on Sunday. I received email that the job was > complete and was successful. Querying Bacula for any information > regarding the job returned "no reuslts". Looking directly at the > tables showed the Filename table did contain the filenames but the Job > and File tables were empty. Did you run out of spool disk space? > I don't believe this should have been the > case, and there was nothing in mysql logs to indicate an error and > none in Bacula logs. I am not unwilling to believe that there still > could have been an issue with mysql. These are real concerns for me > and trying to implement reliable backups. Start with a small full backup and observe what it does. Only move onto large jobs when you're asatisfied you understand it. WRT Arkeia (and several other packages), I'll only comment that I find most of them incredibly frustrating and limiting compared to Bacula. AB - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007, Wes Hardaker wrote: > I doubt he's unique. I constantly think to myself "wow, bacula is > really cool; but why isn't it doing that?" So do I - and then usally find out I've set it up wrong, or that users are doing stupid things (like "chown -R /path/to/directory/") which result in files being "freshened" every day and needlessly added to incrementals. Bacula does almost everything that the cheap/free backup systems do (the only obvious thing it doesn't do is backuppc's merging of multiple machines) with a lot more reliablity and less hassle. It also does almost everything the expensive packages do (the only obvious thing here is effective daily snapshotting, allowing a full restore from incrementals without finding stray extra files appearing) What Bacula doesn't do very well is the user interface. I'd prefer to use a well engineered program which requires a bit of thought on that side than a smoothly drawn GUI program which doesn't do what it's supposed to or is so limited that minor variations requirte different programs. It works well for me and I've got ~40TB being backed up, along with ~15 small machines being imaged every night. The config file alone is 5000 lines but as long as approached in a _disciplined_ way, it remains easy to handle as each section is pretty much a carbon copy of the others. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
> > It required searching the bacula-users posts to discover > > that I could do "label slots=1-12 pool=scratch barcodes". > > There's no need to label blank tapes. Just "add" the entries to the > appropriate pools, apply matching barcodes and update slots. When bacula > encounters a blank tape which is has no record of having written to > before, it will throw a read error and then label it. > I do this with my 2 drive 24 slot autochanger: 1) Add/Remove tapes 2) update slots 3) label barcodes And put all new tapes into the "Scratch" pool. Also you can run label barcodes with already labeled tapes in the changer, bacula will just skip over them in this process. John - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
Re-sending... As Dan just informed me and John pointed out in the other thread, apparently I've been replying directly to the previous poster instead of the list. Sorry about that. =\ >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >Of Dan Langille >Sent: Wednesday, 21 November, 2007 07:19 >To: bacula-users >Subject: Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula > >On 21 Nov 2007 at 8:07, Shon Stephens wrote: > >> Ok. This is a rant and you can remove it from the list if you want to >> later. I just have to vent. >> >> Bacula is incredibly complex to setup. Its taken 4 months and its >> still not working correctly. > >You are unique. I have to agree with Dan here. Over the years that I have used bacula a number of people have reported having issues with setting up bacula to suit their particular needs. However, generally those issues were incurred from having rather uncommon considerations within their systems. > >> Things that should be easy that Bacula makes overly complex: >> >> Labeling tapes >> Assigning tapes to pools >> Reassigning tapes to pools >> Managing disk media >> >> Things Bacula can't seem to get right: >> >> Detecting a tape is in the drive and using it >> Even though the correctly labeled tape is in the drive, and has the >> right Volume label, and is marked "Append", and is from the correct >> Pool >> Bacula is still waiting for a mount request. Every external program >> recognizes that the tape is in the drive and mounted. Not Bacula >> >> Catalog entries. I've not had a single backup job where the right >> entries made it into the Catalog >> >> Windows hosts. Good luck figuring out the esoteric path >syntax because >> its different in different chapters of the manual and also different >> depending on which part of the config you are editing >> >> Basically I can't see that its useable for anything more than backing >> up a single system, and even then better be careful. >> >> I'm going with Arkeia Network Backup. Might cost money, but at least >> it will work as advertised which is more than can be said for Crapula > >Oh, and here I thought you were going to ask for more help. Oh well. > Good luck to you. I hope the parting shots improve things for you. > Again I think Dan is right here. It's a shame that you were unable to properly configure bacula for your needs. However, although I'm no psychologist, I have found that besmirching the source of my frustrations has never been a productive means of releaving said frustration. Perhaps you just need a vacation. >-- >Dan Langille - PGCon - http://www.pgcon.org/ > > >--- >-- >This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft >Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. >http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ >___ >Bacula-users mailing list >Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users Thank you, Chris Lee - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
--- Robert LeBlanc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 11/21/07 7:11 AM, "Foo Bar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > all set up (I can't get BAT to compile for example, hopefully the > Debian > > stable package will be updated soon). > > > > Debian stable will never get the new version until Lenny is released as > stable. I've used the testing and sid packages in Lenny without any > problems. Beware that 2.2.5 is stuck in sid until the new version of qt4 > fixes dependencies. For stability reasons I cannot run unstable/testing on production servers, and I prefer not to on my own machines. I did download depkgs-qt/qwt-5.0.2, compiled qt4 from source (/usr/local/Trolltech/Qt-4.3.0/) and whatnot but am still getting errors while compiling BAT (undefined reference this and that). I'm clueless on fixing this myself and cannot spend the time to learn. ___ Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/environment.html - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
Foo Bar schrieb: > > > all set up (I can't get BAT to compile for example, hopefully the > > Debian > > > stable package will be updated soon). > > > > > > > Debian stable will never get the new version until Lenny is released as > > stable. I've used the testing and sid packages in Lenny without any > > problems. Beware that 2.2.5 is stuck in sid until the new version of qt4 > > fixes dependencies. > > For stability reasons I cannot run unstable/testing on production servers, > and I prefer not to on my own machines. 2.2.5 is available for etch at backports.org and in the PackMan repo. http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=bacula&searchon=names§ion=all&suite=etch-backports http://wiki.links2linux.de/en/index.php/PackMan_repo_instructions_for_Debian/Ubuntu_(en)#Debian_4.0_.28etch.29 Ralf - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
--- Ralf Gross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=bacula&searchon=names§ion=all&suite=etch-backports > http://wiki.links2linux.de/en/index.php/PackMan_repo_instructions_for_Debian/Ubuntu_(en)#Debian_4.0_.28etch.29 Thanks, I will take a look at this. ___ Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/environment.html - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
Shon> Like I said its a rant. Probably a poor choice to post, but I've Shon> really been having some inexplicable problems lately and kirk'd Shon> out something bad this morning. Setting up Bacula to test Shon> certain things went relatively smoothly. Its been setting it up Shon> for production that has presented its biggest challenges. The Shon> documentation is immense and the learning curve is certainly Shon> challenging. If it weren't for the support of all the kind folks Shon> here, I wouldn't have come as far as I have. For instance, the Shon> full abilities of the commands aren't well documented. It Shon> required searching the bacula-users posts to discover that I Shon> could do "label slots=1-12 pool=scratch barcodes". Hear hear! I want to agree with this statement comletely. The bconsole command and it's builtin help is a total mis-mash and not very user friendly at all. I've got a plan to sit down and sketch out more consistent and clear set of commands for manipulating bacula from the command line. Anyone else like the 'bcli' name? Personally, I like how Legato (now EMC) has done their command line tools and documentation and that's what I'm aiming to do. Of course, I need to find the time to do this. Shon> I did do something foolish the other day when I edited the jobs Shon> and ran reload in the console while a job was despooling. The Shon> conf wasn't correct (still trying to get the Windows Fileset Shon> syntax correct). Well of course the director puked and this is I Shon> suppose expected. What I didn't expect is that Bacula wouldn't Shon> be able to tell me what happened to the job, or that the data Shon> that had been spooled to disk would all be gone. This is when I Shon> started running into difficulty attempting to purge the tape and Shon> add it back to the scratch pool. In addition, I had a Full Shon> backup run on Sunday. I received email that the job was complete Shon> and was successful. Querying Bacula for any information Shon> regarding the job returned "no reuslts". Looking directly at the Shon> tables showed the Filename table did contain the filenames but Shon> the Job and File tables were empty. I don't believe this should Shon> have been the case, and there was nothing in mysql logs to Shon> indicate an error and none in Bacula logs. I am not unwilling to Shon> believe that there still could have been an issue with mysql. Shon> These are real concerns for me and trying to implement reliable Shon> backups. So you need to post your configuration and probably setup some smaller test filesystem(s) on client(s) to run full backups against so you can confirm what's up. But it does sound like you've got a major problem. Heck, I should do a test restore myself, or at least browse my backups to make sure I've actually got data on my tapes. I can certainly understand your frustration, it's not fun to have a backup finish and then you get nothing for you troubles. In this case, you need to look at the log files for both Mysql and Bacula. Make sure you have the proper permissions on the various tables, etc. John - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
In the message dated: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:13:18 EST, The pithy ruminations from "John Stoffel" on were: => [SNIP!] => Shon> here, I wouldn't have come as far as I have. For instance, the => Shon> full abilities of the commands aren't well documented. It => Shon> required searching the bacula-users posts to discover that I => Shon> could do "label slots=1-12 pool=scratch barcodes". => => Hear hear! I want to agree with this statement comletely. The I agree! => bconsole command and it's builtin help is a total mis-mash and not => very user friendly at all. I'd go beyond that...it's not just the builtin help. Bacula is a very complex piece of software, with many different ways to accomplish the same tasks. I'd say that bacula's main weakness is that these methods are often poorly documented and somewhat inconsistent. => => I've got a plan to sit down and sketch out more consistent and clear => set of commands for manipulating bacula from the command line. Anyone => else like the 'bcli' name? => No! No! This will only exacerbate the problem (if one defines the problem as "multiple tools/methods, with varying documentation and different levels of support for each tool"). There is a huge investment in bconsole--it's a fundamental interface to bacula, with a great deal of documentation (of varying quality), and many scripts & procedures are built on bconsole. Introducing a competitor will not improve bconsole directly, will not replace bconsole, and will create yet-another-way of doing the same tasks. I'd be hugely in favor of improving bconsole in the following ways: 1. consistency standardize the "API" within bconsole so that every subcommand can take arguments the same way. 2. documentation improve both the off-line documentation and on-line help 3. command-line interface Many people (myself included) rely on complex scripts to execute bconsole commands. It's cumbersome and "fragile" to write scripts that blindly respond to prompts and menu structures of an interactive program. The scripts are difficult to debug and maintain as the program they are calling changes over time. For example, I've got a script that includes: /bin/echo -e "update slots\n\nquit\n" | bconsole -c ./bconsole.conf note the "\n\n" sequence. This is vital, as the second carriage return is a response to an prompt issued within bconsole. Once the internal bconsole commands are standardized, I think it would be a tremendous help to allow them to be called directly from the command line, rather than introducing another program. For example, the previous "update slots" command would be written as: bacula -c ./bconsole.conf update slots [SNIP!] Thanks, Mark => => John => Mark Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] System Administrator Section of Biomedical Image Analysis 215-662-7310 Department of Radiology, University of Pennsylvania http://pgpkeys.pca.dfn.de:11371/pks/lookup?search=mark.bergman%40.uphs.upenn.edu - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
> "mark" == mark bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: mark> => I've got a plan to sit down and sketch out more consistent and clear mark> => set of commands for manipulating bacula from the command line. Anyone mark> => else like the 'bcli' name? mark> => mark> No! No! This will only exacerbate the problem (if one defines mark> the problem as "multiple tools/methods, with varying mark> documentation and different levels of support for each mark> tool"). My goal is to *replace* bconsole with a better tool, which does all that bconsole does but in a more consistent manner. And which offers cleaner interface to the underlying bacula commands and processes. If you look at the source code to bconsole, the parser is very very simplistic and doesn't have any notion of command completion, or even the ability to give help at each level. This should be replaced. As should the various . versions of commands as well, which are there to be used by external commands. Also, as a pet peeve, why do we need a 'python' command inside bconsole? Does anyone use it? And what are the differences between: list show status Why do we have N different commands (cancel, disable, enable, run, show, wait?) for handling jobs? It's a pain to figure out/remember which one to use. I think it should be broken down more like: job instead. It shrinks down the help screen, it makes it obvious that all job related commands are grouped together, etc. We can also have a standard set of [options] which can be used across commands, so that if you need to specify a particular server, you just do: bcli -h foo job run 12344 Nice and simple and consistent. mark> There is a huge investment in bconsole--it's a fundamental mark> interface to bacula, with a great deal of documentation (of mark> varying quality), and many scripts & procedures are built on mark> bconsole. Introducing a competitor will not improve bconsole mark> directly, will not replace bconsole, and will create mark> yet-another-way of doing the same tasks. I don't want a competitor, I want a *replacement*! mark> I'd be hugely in favor of improving bconsole in the following ways: mark> 1. consistency mark> standardize the "API" within bconsole so that every subcommand mark> can take arguments the same way. I agree. mark> 2. documentation mark> improve both the off-line documentation and on-line help I agree. mark> 3. command-line interface mark> Many people (myself included) rely on complex scripts to mark> execute bconsole commands. It's cumbersome and "fragile" to mark> write scripts that blindly respond to prompts and menu mark> structures of an interactive program. The scripts are mark> difficult to debug and maintain as the program they are calling mark> changes over time. I agree. mark> For example, I've got a script that includes: mark> /bin/echo -e "update slots\n\nquit\n" | bconsole -c ./bconsole.conf mark> note the "\n\n" sequence. This is vital, as the second carriage mark> return is a response to an prompt issued within bconsole. I feel that the example you show here is perfect for showing what's wrong with bconsole. It should be something much more easily scriptable, something like this: bcli -c bcli.conf jukebox inventory And I will be willing to change the 'jukebox' to something else, and even the 'inventory' back to update. But let's get a more consistent grammar here please! mark> Once the internal bconsole commands are standardized, I think mark> it would be a tremendous help to allow them to be called mark> directly from the command line, rather than introducing mark> another program. For example, the previous "update slots" mark> command would be written as: mark> bacula -c ./bconsole.conf update slots I agree. But why should you need a -c bconsole.conf? What does that buy us? Shouldn't we set it up so that when you connect to a bacula server, the client pulls down the config info it needs? But again, this should be all standardized. I'd also like to see how reporting can be improved as well using the command line tools. More on this as I get a chance to sketch out my ideas and present them to people. And initially it WILL be in a totally new program, which will just call the bconsole tool from inside itself, just to show what I think we need to do. Ok? John - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Bacula-users mailing list
Re: [Bacula-users] All the problems with Bacula
On 2007.11.29. 23:53, John Stoffel wrote: >> "mark" == mark bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > mark> => I've got a plan to sit down and sketch out more consistent and clear > mark> => set of commands for manipulating bacula from the command line. > Anyone > mark> => else like the 'bcli' name? > mark> => > > mark> No! No! This will only exacerbate the problem (if one defines > mark> the problem as "multiple tools/methods, with varying > mark> documentation and different levels of support for each > mark> tool"). > > My goal is to *replace* bconsole with a better tool, which does all > that bconsole does but in a more consistent manner. And which offers > cleaner interface to the underlying bacula commands and processes. isn't it possible to extend and improve bconsole instead of a complete rewrite ? > If you look at the source code to bconsole, the parser is very very > simplistic and doesn't have any notion of command completion, or even > the ability to give help at each level. i have wanted better cli (maybe using readline or what is it everybody else is using) for, like YEARS :) ... > Why do we have N different commands (cancel, disable, enable, run, > show, wait?) for handling jobs? It's a pain to figure out/remember > which one to use. I think it should be broken down more like: > > job good idea. this reminds me somewhat about lvm umbrella program that was introduced with lvm2 or so. > instead. It shrinks down the help screen, it makes it obvious that > all job related commands are grouped together, etc. ... -- Rich - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
