Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Francois Tigeot]

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 07:55:06AM +0200, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
> Francois Tigeot wrote:
> > There's a small typo at the beginning of the page: "Please carfeully read"
> > 
> Thx, fixed.

There's another problem with this form, possibly some sort of timeout.

I've just submitted my application, but I couldn't do it without reloading
the page first and pasting in all the answers I had previously entered
manually.

Trying to submit the first instance of the web form, I only got a blank page
with the message "Security token doesn't match, possible CSRF attack." .

It was not captcha-related.

-- 
Francois Tigeot

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Tom Davies]

Hi :
Please ignore my last email.  I didn't realise the words were part of a 
sentence 
rather than being the entire statement.  Context is everything & i should have 
checked.

It looks good already  :)
Regards from
Tom :)





From: Francois Tigeot 
To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
Sent: Thu, 16 June, 2011 5:44:12
Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 01:50:37AM +0200, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
> > If there are no objections by tonight, I'll also change the text on
> > the membership application page
> > 
>(http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/application-for-tdf-community-membership/)
>
> > 
> Done.

There's a small typo at the beginning of the page: "Please carfeully read"

-- 
Francois Tigeot

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
It would look slightly more normal as:

"Please read carefully"
Regards from
Tom :)






From: Thorsten Behrens 
To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
Sent: Thu, 16 June, 2011 6:55:06
Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

Francois Tigeot wrote:
> There's a small typo at the beginning of the page: "Please carfeully read"
> 
Thx, fixed.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Thorsten Behrens]

Francois Tigeot wrote:
> There's a small typo at the beginning of the page: "Please carfeully read"
> 
Thx, fixed.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Francois Tigeot]

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 01:50:37AM +0200, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
> > If there are no objections by tonight, I'll also change the text on
> > the membership application page
> > (http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/application-for-tdf-community-membership/)
> > 
> Done.

There's a small typo at the beginning of the page: "Please carfeully read"

-- 
Francois Tigeot

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Thorsten Behrens]

> If there are no objections by tonight, I'll also change the text on
> the membership application page
> (http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/application-for-tdf-community-membership/)
> 
Done.

-- Thorsten

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Florian Effenberger]

+1, and thanks for thinking of it ;)

Thorsten Behrens wrote on 2011-06-15 10.36:

If there are no objections by tonight, I'll also change the text on


--
Florian Effenberger 
Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Seems reasonable :)  There is something about the grammar of the last line that 
mildly irritates me.  Making it "I will ..." rather than using the contraction 
helps a little but there is something odd about "best-effort".  I'm sure there 
is a better word but i'm never able to remember it.  My memory is going, maybe 
that's what is irritating.  "Best-effort" is good enough.  It's certainly 
unambiguous enough and clear enough.
Regards from
Tom :)






From: Thorsten Behrens 
To: Michael Meeks 
Cc: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
Sent: Wed, 15 June, 2011 9:36:08
Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

Michael Meeks wrote:
> Counting votes we had: Florian, Charles, Andre, Olivier, Italo and
> Sophie voting in favour; so I've made all of the edits in the wiki.
> 
If there are no objections by tonight, I'll also change the text on
the membership application page
(http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/application-for-tdf-community-membership/)

to read:

Bylaws and commitment

Please read the Foundation's Charter (its Bylaws and The Next Decade
Manifesto), and confirm that you support the principle of an
independent foundation.
You should make a best-effort commitment to at least six
(6) months activity within our projects.

I've read the Foundation's Bylaws and The Next Decade Manifesto, and
confirm that I support the principle of an independent foundation.*

I'll make a best-effort commitment to contribute to the projects of
TDF for at least six (6) months.* 

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Thorsten Behrens]

Michael Meeks wrote:
>   Counting votes we had: Florian, Charles, Andre, Olivier, Italo and
> Sophie voting in favour; so I've made all of the edits in the wiki.
> 
If there are no objections by tonight, I'll also change the text on
the membership application page
(http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/application-for-tdf-community-membership/)
to read:

Bylaws and commitment

Please read the Foundation's Charter (its Bylaws and The Next Decade
Manifesto), and confirm that you support the principle of an
independent foundation.
You should make a best-effort commitment to at least six
(6) months activity within our projects.

I've read the Foundation's Bylaws and The Next Decade Manifesto, and
confirm that I support the principle of an independent foundation.*

I'll make a best-effort commitment to contribute to the projects of
TDF for at least six (6) months.* 

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I thought everyone quickly checked that sort of thing anyway?  I do.  I thought 
David was making a joke out of the need for people to be a little more aware of 
one need for checking such rules.  A serious point put forwards as a joke.  

Regards from
Tom :)





From: Florian Effenberger 
To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
Sent: Tue, 14 June, 2011 7:56:24
Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

Hi,

Michael Meeks wrote on 2011-06-13 17.19:
> Counting votes we had: Florian, Charles, Andre, Olivier, Italo and
> Sophie voting in favour; so I've made all of the edits in the wiki.

thanks a lot, Michael! I will ask the German community to translate the changes 
back. :)

Thanks to everyone who contributed! (Oh, and David, I never thought you would 
do 
the bank account thing, don't worry ;)

Florian

-- Florian Effenberger 
Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I think it is better to do the minimum that is required to make it legal and 
for 
the rest write in things like "Mid-term replacements are to be covered by 
internal TDF policy which is to be reviewed regularly".  In some cases it makes 
sense to name the specific document that will cover that particular policy but 
even that can make things unnecessarily restrictive in the future.  Please 
avoid 
"setting things in stone" where it's not required by law.
Regards from
Tom :)






From: Florian Effenberger 
To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
Sent: Tue, 14 June, 2011 8:01:36
Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

Hi Toki,

toki wrote on 2011-06-10 19.16:

> When I was reading German law on non-profits, my impression was the
> By-Laws had to specify how members of the board of directors, and any
> advisory board were selected, and mid-term replacements done.
> 
> I don't see anything in the by-laws that specifies how mid-term
> replacements are done. Is that not legally required?

we have some rules on that, like "Each member of the BoD must appoint one 
Community Member as deputy who can replace her/him in case of need, and who has 
the same rights during her/his period of absence or unavailability." or "The 
Chairperson can be discharged and replaced by the BoD at any time."

However, it indeed might be needed that we incorporate some more details into 
the binding statutes we are currently preparing. I have details on this soon.

Thanks for pointing this out!
Florian

-- Florian Effenberger 
Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi Toki,

toki wrote on 2011-06-10 19.16:


When I was reading German law on non-profits, my impression was the
By-Laws had to specify how members of the board of directors, and any
advisory board were selected, and mid-term replacements done.

I don't see anything in the by-laws that specifies how mid-term
replacements are done. Is that not legally required?


we have some rules on that, like "Each member of the BoD must appoint 
one Community Member as deputy who can replace her/him in case of need, 
and who has the same rights during her/his period of absence or 
unavailability." or "The Chairperson can be discharged and replaced by 
the BoD at any time."


However, it indeed might be needed that we incorporate some more details 
into the binding statutes we are currently preparing. I have details on 
this soon.


Thanks for pointing this out!
Florian

--
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Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Michael Meeks wrote on 2011-06-13 17.19:

Counting votes we had: Florian, Charles, Andre, Olivier, Italo and
Sophie voting in favour; so I've made all of the edits in the wiki.


thanks a lot, Michael! I will ask the German community to translate the 
changes back. :)


Thanks to everyone who contributed! (Oh, and David, I never thought you 
would do the bank account thing, don't worry ;)


Florian

--
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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[David Nelson]

Hi Michael,

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 23:20, Michael Meeks  wrote:
> Hi David,
>
>        Thanks for these, really makes it cleaner, I applied them all - they
> seem un-controversial etc.

Cool, thanks. :-)

-- 
David Nelson

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Michael Meeks]

Hi David,

Thanks for these, really makes it cleaner, I applied them all - they
seem un-controversial etc.

On Thu, 2011-06-09 at 22:22 +0300, David Nelson wrote:
> "best-effort"
> "and skills, whether on a paid or voluntary basis."
> (Just adds a comma.)
> "organizations"
> (US spelling, like everywhere else in the bylaws.)
> "minimum level of financial or other support, as determined by
> the BoD, to meet with the BoD and provide advice."
> (Minor punctuation changes.)
..
> That's it... pretty painless, no? ;-P

Indeed :-)

> Otherwise, I was only going to add a clause about transferring TDF's
> funds into my personal bank account every 6 months...

Lol ;-)

Michael.

-- 
 michael.me...@novell.com  <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot



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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Michael Meeks]

Hi guys,

Counting votes we had: Florian, Charles, Andre, Olivier, Italo and
Sophie voting in favour; so I've made all of the edits in the wiki.

HTH,

Michael.

-- 
 michael.me...@novell.com  <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot



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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Someone mailed me off-list thinking it was my comment and quoted a real-world 
legal case where someone had really done what you describe.  It is an old joke 
and an obvious thing to avoid but i'm not hugely surprised one bunch of people 
got fooled into letting it happen!  It's impossible to over-estimate human 
stupidity.  

Regards from
Tom :)




- Original Message 
> From: David Nelson 
> To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
> Cc: steering-disc...@global.documentfoundation.org
> Sent: Sat, 11 June, 2011 6:14:45
> Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes
> 
> HI,
> 
> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 22:22, David Nelson   wrote:
> > Otherwise, I was only going to add a clause about transferring  TDF's
> > funds into my personal bank account every 6 months...
> 
> For  those of you that didn't realise, that was a joke... Someone just
> mailed me  off-list who didn't seem quite sure about that... (rofl)
> 
> -- 
> David  Nelson
> 
> -- 
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> 
> 

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[David Nelson]

HI,

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 22:22, David Nelson  wrote:
> Otherwise, I was only going to add a clause about transferring TDF's
> funds into my personal bank account every 6 months...

For those of you that didn't realise, that was a joke... Someone just
mailed me off-list who didn't seem quite sure about that... (rofl)

-- 
David Nelson

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Tom Davies]

From: David Nelson 
To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
Cc: steering-disc...@global.documentfoundation.org
Sent: Thu, 9 June, 2011 20:22:51
Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

Hi Florian,

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 11:17, Florian Effenberger
 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> as we are moving forward with legally setting up the foundation, and
> translate/adapt the bylaws into German, we noticed that some tweaks and
> simplifications are required - in general we feel the shorter these
> documents are, the better it is for understanding.
>
> Proposed change #1:
> ---
>
> We should replace the words "moral commitment" (which are rather off-putting
> to many with a stark view of their integrity and morals) with something
> softer:
>
> from:
> Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three (3)
> months, and should make a moral commitment to at least six (6) months
> activity (not counting the first three (3) months of fulfillment of
> qualification).
>
> to:
> Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three (3)
> months, and should make a best effort commitment to continuing their
> activity for a further six (6) months.
>
> Which I hope captures the spirit, without invoking things that cannot be
> predicted.

"best-effort"


> Proposed change #2:
> ---
>
> Then a separate set of changes & cleanups around the Advisory Board:
>
> * The /Donor/ definition is not referenced outside of the /Sponsor/
> definition, and so should be collapsed into there.
> * The /Sponsor/ definition is referenced in a redundant, non-normative way
> by the Members/Contributors definition and should be removed.
>
> from:
> The Community's Members are people who contribute their time, efforts and
> skills independently (individual persons contributing on either a paid or
> unpaid basis), or who may work for Sponsors (refer to definition of
> Sponsors).
>
> to:
> The Community's Members are individuals who contribute their time, efforts
> and skills whether on a paid or voluntary basis.

"and skills, whether on a paid or voluntary basis."

(Just adds a comma.)


> Proposed change #3:
> ---
>
> * Remove the Sponsors section. This is now only referred to in the Advisory
> Board definition and sections, and as such can be expanded there.
>
> * Expand the Advisory Board definition.
>
> from:
> The Advisory Board represents the Foundation's Sponsors. Each Sponsor is
> entitled to appoint one representative. For more information, see Advisory
> Board under Governance.
>
> to:
> The Advisory Board provides a forum for organisations that provide a
> substantial minimum level of financial, or other support as determined by
> the BoD to meet with the BoD and provide advice. For more information, see
> Advisory Board under Governance.

"organizations"

(US spelling, like everywhere else in the bylaws.)

"minimum level of financial or other support, as determined by
> the BoD, to meet with the BoD and provide advice."

(Minor punctuation changes.)


> Proposed change #4:
> ---
>
> * Re-work the Advisory Board section:
>
> from:
> The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed by Sponsors' representatives (refer to
> definition of Sponsors). Each Sponsor can have no more than one
> representative on the Advisory Board. Each Sponsor's representative is
> appointed for a term of one (1) year, but can be re-appointed for a further
> year in office at the end of each term.
> The AB's primary function is to represent The Document Foundation's
> Sponsors, and to provide the Board of Directors with advice, guidance and
> proposals.
>
> to:
> The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed, at the BoD's discretion by organisations
> that have  made a substantial contribution to The Document Foundation. Each
> organisation appointing a single representative to the Advisory Board based
> on a yearly fee to be determined by the BoD.
> The AB's primary function is to represent these organisations by providing
> the BoD with advice, guidance and proposals.

"organization" / "organizations"

(US spelling.)


That's it... pretty painless, no? ;-P

I've proofread the rest of the bylaws in the past so many times I
don't think there are any / many spelling / grammar errors in them.

Otherwise, I was only going to add a clause about transferring TDF's
funds into my personal bank account every 6 months...

David Nelson


Hi :)
Yup +1
I always try to use Uk spellings but i think this has to be American :(
Regards from
Tom :)

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[André Schnabel]

Hi,

+1 for all of the proposed changes.

regards,

André

Am 09.06.2011 10:17, schrieb Florian Effenberger:

Hello,

as we are moving forward with legally setting up the foundation, and 
translate/adapt the bylaws into German, we noticed that some tweaks 
and simplifications are required - in general we feel the shorter 
these documents are, the better it is for understanding.


Proposed change #1:
---

We should replace the words "moral commitment" (which are rather 
off-putting to many with a stark view of their integrity and morals) 
with something softer:


from:
Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three 
(3) months, and should make a moral commitment to at least six (6) 
months activity (not counting the first three (3) months of 
fulfillment of qualification).


to:
Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three 
(3) months, and should make a best effort commitment to continuing 
their activity for a further six (6) months.


Which I hope captures the spirit, without invoking things that cannot 
be predicted.


Proposed change #2:
---

Then a separate set of changes & cleanups around the Advisory Board:

* The /Donor/ definition is not referenced outside of the /Sponsor/ 
definition, and so should be collapsed into there.
* The /Sponsor/ definition is referenced in a redundant, non-normative 
way by the Members/Contributors definition and should be removed.


from:
The Community's Members are people who contribute their time, efforts 
and skills independently (individual persons contributing on either a 
paid or unpaid basis), or who may work for Sponsors (refer to 
definition of Sponsors).


to:
The Community's Members are individuals who contribute their time, 
efforts and skills whether on a paid or voluntary basis.


Proposed change #3:
---

* Remove the Sponsors section. This is now only referred to in the 
Advisory Board definition and sections, and as such can be expanded 
there.


* Expand the Advisory Board definition.

from:
The Advisory Board represents the Foundation's Sponsors. Each Sponsor 
is entitled to appoint one representative. For more information, see 
Advisory Board under Governance.


to:
The Advisory Board provides a forum for organisations that provide a 
substantial minimum level of financial, or other support as determined 
by the BoD to meet with the BoD and provide advice. For more 
information, see Advisory Board under Governance.


Proposed change #4:
---

* Re-work the Advisory Board section:

from:
The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed by Sponsors' representatives (refer 
to definition of Sponsors). Each Sponsor can have no more than one 
representative on the Advisory Board. Each Sponsor's representative is 
appointed for a term of one (1) year, but can be re-appointed for a 
further year in office at the end of each term.
The AB's primary function is to represent The Document Foundation's 
Sponsors, and to provide the Board of Directors with advice, guidance 
and proposals.


to:
The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed, at the BoD's discretion by 
organisations that havemade a substantial contribution to The 
Document Foundation. Each organisation appointing a single 
representative to the Advisory Board based on a yearly fee to be 
determined by the BoD.
The AB's primary function is to represent these organisations by 
providing the BoD with advice, guidance and proposals.


Thoughts?

Florian



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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi David,

David Nelson wrote on 2011-06-09 12.24:

I recall that "people" were requested to read the bylaws properly
before voting on the original draft...:-P

I would only make strictly*spelling and grammatical*  corrections,
nothing more. Do I have an OK for that?


thanks for the offer!

The problem is a legal one: The current German translation is based on 
the bylaws, and the more we change, the more work it is. However, if it 
is solely about spelling and grammar, I am of course happy to hear your 
changes, that would indeed be much appreciated.


I ask you to *not* do them in the wiki, but rather send me an ODT with 
tracking changes offlist, so I can review and incorporate them, at the 
same time translating into German for our lawyer. I cannot promise all 
changes can make it into the edited bylaws, but let's see.


Would that be an option?

Thanks,
Florian

--
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Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Tom Davies]

From: David Nelson 
To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
Sent: Thu, 9 June, 2011 11:24:02
Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

Hi Michael,

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 13:15, Michael Meeks  wrote:
>Ho hum; I'm personally averse to widespread small changes - they tend
> not to get the level of review that is required, and we were IMHO very
> badly burned by the level of un-reviewed change before the bylaws were
> frozen; that then required extensive expenditure of time (that is still
> ongoing) to get them into better shape.
>
>Personally, I'd like to see all such changes posted here for some
> sanity checking first along with some justification. We have code review
> during code freezes, even more so legalese review.

I recall that "people" were requested to read the bylaws properly
before voting on the original draft... :-P

I would only make strictly *spelling and grammatical* corrections,
nothing more. Do I have an OK for that?

David Nelson


Hi :)
I think it is a good idea to do a spelling and grammar check although i suspect 
that Florian has probably already flagged up the only 4 issues.  It would be 
good for a native En-Us speaker to double-check jic.  Given that registration 
will be done in Germany it is more important to get the German translation 
reasonably perfect rather than the En-Us version.  


Alfresco seem to be a great place for storing documents in a way that allows 
people to reviews and create a "working notes file"  so that when a particular 
document/rule/guideline/policy is scheduled for review the changes could be 
discussed and possibly added (if agreed).  

Regards from
Tom :)

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Michael Meeks]

On Thu, 2011-06-09 at 13:24 +0300, David Nelson wrote:
> I recall that "people" were requested to read the bylaws properly
> before voting on the original draft... :-P

That was not possible at a time of extreme workload, when so much
changed so quickly right before approval and then was blessed as
'gospel' :-)

ATB,

Michael.

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Tom Davies]

From: Florian Effenberger 
To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org
Sent: Thu, 9 June, 2011 9:17:13
Subject: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

Hello,

as we are moving forward with legally setting up the foundation, and 
translate/adapt the bylaws into German, we noticed that some tweaks and 
simplifications are required - in general we feel the shorter these documents 
are, the better it is for understanding.

Proposed change #1:
---

We should replace the words "moral commitment" (which are rather off-putting to 
many with a stark view of their integrity and morals) with something softer:

from:
Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three (3) months, 
and should make a moral commitment to at least six (6) months activity (not 
counting the first three (3) months of fulfillment of qualification).

to:
Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three (3) months, 
and should make a best effort commitment to continuing their activity for a 
further six (6) months.

Which I hope captures the spirit, without invoking things that cannot be 
predicted.

Proposed change #2:
---

Then a separate set of changes & cleanups around the Advisory Board:

* The /Donor/ definition is not referenced outside of the /Sponsor/ definition, 
and so should be collapsed into there.
* The /Sponsor/ definition is referenced in a redundant, non-normative way by 
the Members/Contributors definition and should be removed.

from:
The Community's Members are people who contribute their time, efforts and 
skills 
independently (individual persons contributing on either a paid or unpaid 
basis), or who may work for Sponsors (refer to definition of Sponsors).

to:
The Community's Members are individuals who contribute their time, efforts and 
skills whether on a paid or voluntary basis.

Proposed change #3:
---

* Remove the Sponsors section. This is now only referred to in the Advisory 
Board definition and sections, and as such can be expanded there.

* Expand the Advisory Board definition.

from:
The Advisory Board represents the Foundation's Sponsors. Each Sponsor is 
entitled to appoint one representative. For more information, see Advisory 
Board 
under Governance.

to:
The Advisory Board provides a forum for organisations that provide a 
substantial 
minimum level of financial, or other support as determined by the BoD to meet 
with the BoD and provide advice. For more information, see Advisory Board under 
Governance.

Proposed change #4:
---

* Re-work the Advisory Board section:

from:
The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed by Sponsors' representatives (refer to 
definition of Sponsors). Each Sponsor can have no more than one representative 
on the Advisory Board. Each Sponsor's representative is appointed for a term of 
one (1) year, but can be re-appointed for a further year in office at the end 
of 
each term.
The AB's primary function is to represent The Document Foundation's Sponsors, 
and to provide the Board of Directors with advice, guidance and proposals.

to:
The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed, at the BoD's discretion by organisations 
that havemade a substantial contribution to The Document Foundation. Each 
organisation appointing a single representative to the Advisory Board based on 
a 
yearly fee to be determined by the BoD.
The AB's primary function is to represent these organisations by providing the 
BoD with advice, guidance and proposals.

Thoughts?

Florian


Hi :)
+1
I'm not a member or anything so my opinion doesn't count but i especially liked 
point 2.  Point 1 is not perfect grammar but probably translates well.  The 
rest 
of the points are great too but 2 is my favourite.
Regards from
Tom :)

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Thorsten Behrens]

Michael Meeks wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-06-09 at 16:33 +0800, Varun Mittal wrote:
> > Can we add some clarification for the case if  AB wants to replace their
> > representative mid way of his/her tenure ?
> 
>   I had anticipated that since the STV election process produces an
> ordered list - we would just select the next person in line from the
> list in cases of death / promotion to executive positions etc.
> 
I understand Varun's question to refer to the advisory board - for
that, I'd personally not have any issue with having a sponsoring
entity exchange their member - it should be at their discretion?

For the board, I agree with you - just pick the next from the STV
rank order.

For the changes proposed by Florian: +1

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Michael Meeks]

On Thu, 2011-06-09 at 12:31 +0300, David Nelson wrote:
> Cool. I'll watch this thread and write back before starting work and
> after finishing work. :-)

Ho hum; I'm personally averse to widespread small changes - they tend
not to get the level of review that is required, and we were IMHO very
badly burned by the level of un-reviewed change before the bylaws were
frozen; that then required extensive expenditure of time (that is still
ongoing) to get them into better shape.

Personally, I'd like to see all such changes posted here for some
sanity checking first along with some justification. We have code review
during code freezes, even more so legalese review.

HTH,

Michael.

-- 
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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Michael Meeks]

On Thu, 2011-06-09 at 16:33 +0800, Varun Mittal wrote:
> Can we add some clarification for the case if  AB wants to replace their
> representative mid way of his/her tenure ?

I had anticipated that since the STV election process produces an
ordered list - we would just select the next person in line from the
list in cases of death / promotion to executive positions etc.

Do you have a proposed patch making that clearer ?

HTH,

Michael.

-- 
 michael.me...@novell.com  <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot



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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Olivier Hallot]

Hi Florian

+1 for the 4 changes.

Regards,
Olivier

2011/6/9 Florian Effenberger 

> Hello,
>
> as we are moving forward with legally setting up the foundation, and
> translate/adapt the bylaws into German, we noticed that some tweaks and
> simplifications are required - in general we feel the shorter these
> documents are, the better it is for understanding.
>
> Proposed change #1:
> ---
>
> We should replace the words "moral commitment" (which are rather
> off-putting to many with a stark view of their integrity and morals) with
> something softer:
>
> from:
> Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three (3)
> months, and should make a moral commitment to at least six (6) months
> activity (not counting the first three (3) months of fulfillment of
> qualification).
>
> to:
> Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three (3)
> months, and should make a best effort commitment to continuing their
> activity for a further six (6) months.
>
> Which I hope captures the spirit, without invoking things that cannot be
> predicted.
>
> Proposed change #2:
> ---
>
> Then a separate set of changes & cleanups around the Advisory Board:
>
> * The /Donor/ definition is not referenced outside of the /Sponsor/
> definition, and so should be collapsed into there.
> * The /Sponsor/ definition is referenced in a redundant, non-normative way
> by the Members/Contributors definition and should be removed.
>
> from:
> The Community's Members are people who contribute their time, efforts and
> skills independently (individual persons contributing on either a paid or
> unpaid basis), or who may work for Sponsors (refer to definition of
> Sponsors).
>
> to:
> The Community's Members are individuals who contribute their time, efforts
> and skills whether on a paid or voluntary basis.
>
> Proposed change #3:
> ---
>
> * Remove the Sponsors section. This is now only referred to in the Advisory
> Board definition and sections, and as such can be expanded there.
>
> * Expand the Advisory Board definition.
>
> from:
> The Advisory Board represents the Foundation's Sponsors. Each Sponsor is
> entitled to appoint one representative. For more information, see Advisory
> Board under Governance.
>
> to:
> The Advisory Board provides a forum for organisations that provide a
> substantial minimum level of financial, or other support as determined by
> the BoD to meet with the BoD and provide advice. For more information, see
> Advisory Board under Governance.
>
> Proposed change #4:
> ---
>
> * Re-work the Advisory Board section:
>
> from:
> The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed by Sponsors' representatives (refer to
> definition of Sponsors). Each Sponsor can have no more than one
> representative on the Advisory Board. Each Sponsor's representative is
> appointed for a term of one (1) year, but can be re-appointed for a further
> year in office at the end of each term.
> The AB's primary function is to represent The Document Foundation's
> Sponsors, and to provide the Board of Directors with advice, guidance and
> proposals.
>
> to:
> The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed, at the BoD's discretion by
> organisations that have  made a substantial contribution to The Document
> Foundation. Each organisation appointing a single representative to the
> Advisory Board based on a yearly fee to be determined by the BoD.
> The AB's primary function is to represent these organisations by providing
> the BoD with advice, guidance and proposals.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Florian
>
> --
> Florian Effenberger 
> Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
> Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
> Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff
>
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> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to
> steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
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> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[David Nelson]

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 12:28, Charles-H. Schulz
 >> When you've made your
edits, can I have permission to proofread and
>> make minor grammar/spelling corrections?
>>
>
>
> Sure :)
>
> Charles.

Cool. I'll watch this thread and write back before starting work and
after finishing work. :-)

-- 
David Nelson

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Charles-H. Schulz]

2011/6/9 David Nelson 

> Hi,
>
> When you've made your edits, can I have permission to proofread and
> make minor grammar/spelling corrections?
>


Sure :)

Charles.


>
> --
> David Nelson
>
> --
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>

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Italo Vignoli]

On 6/9/11 10:17 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote:


Proposed change #1:
---

from:
Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three (3)
months, and should make a moral commitment to at least six (6) months
activity (not counting the first three (3) months of fulfillment of
qualification).

to:
Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three (3)
months, and should make a best effort commitment to continuing their
activity for a further six (6) months.

Proposed change #2:
---

from:
The Community's Members are people who contribute their time, efforts
and skills independently (individual persons contributing on either a
paid or unpaid basis), or who may work for Sponsors (refer to definition
of Sponsors).

to:
The Community's Members are individuals who contribute their time,
efforts and skills whether on a paid or voluntary basis.

Proposed change #3:
---

from:
The Advisory Board represents the Foundation's Sponsors. Each Sponsor is
entitled to appoint one representative. For more information, see
Advisory Board under Governance.

to:
The Advisory Board provides a forum for organisations that provide a
substantial minimum level of financial, or other support as determined
by the BoD to meet with the BoD and provide advice. For more
information, see Advisory Board under Governance.

Proposed change #4:
---

from:
The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed by Sponsors' representatives (refer
to definition of Sponsors). Each Sponsor can have no more than one
representative on the Advisory Board. Each Sponsor's representative is
appointed for a term of one (1) year, but can be re-appointed for a
further year in office at the end of each term.
The AB's primary function is to represent The Document Foundation's
Sponsors, and to provide the Board of Directors with advice, guidance
and proposals.

to:
The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed, at the BoD's discretion by
organisations that have made a substantial contribution to The Document
Foundation. Each organisation appointing a single representative to the
Advisory Board based on a yearly fee to be determined by the BoD.
The AB's primary function is to represent these organisations by
providing the BoD with advice, guidance and proposals.


+1, approving all changes

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[sophie]

Hi Flo,
On 09/06/2011 11:17, Florian Effenberger wrote:

Hello,

as we are moving forward with legally setting up the foundation, and 
translate/adapt the bylaws into German, we noticed that some tweaks 
and simplifications are required - in general we feel the shorter 
these documents are, the better it is for understanding.

Proposed change #1:
---

We should replace the words "moral commitment" (which are rather 
off-putting to many with a stark view of their integrity and morals) 
with something softer:


from:
Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three 
(3) months, and should make a moral commitment to at least six (6) 
months activity (not counting the first three (3) months of 
fulfillment of qualification).


to:
Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three 
(3) months, and should make a best effort commitment to continuing 
their activity for a further six (6) months.


Which I hope captures the spirit, without invoking things that cannot 
be predicted.


Proposed change #2:
---

Then a separate set of changes & cleanups around the Advisory Board:

* The /Donor/ definition is not referenced outside of the /Sponsor/ 
definition, and so should be collapsed into there.
* The /Sponsor/ definition is referenced in a redundant, non-normative 
way by the Members/Contributors definition and should be removed.


from:
The Community's Members are people who contribute their time, efforts 
and skills independently (individual persons contributing on either a 
paid or unpaid basis), or who may work for Sponsors (refer to 
definition of Sponsors).


to:
The Community's Members are individuals who contribute their time, 
efforts and skills whether on a paid or voluntary basis.


Proposed change #3:
---

* Remove the Sponsors section. This is now only referred to in the 
Advisory Board definition and sections, and as such can be expanded 
there.


* Expand the Advisory Board definition.

from:
The Advisory Board represents the Foundation's Sponsors. Each Sponsor 
is entitled to appoint one representative. For more information, see 
Advisory Board under Governance.


to:
The Advisory Board provides a forum for organisations that provide a 
substantial minimum level of financial, or other support as determined 
by the BoD to meet with the BoD and provide advice. For more 
information, see Advisory Board under Governance.


Proposed change #4:
---

* Re-work the Advisory Board section:

from:
The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed by Sponsors' representatives (refer 
to definition of Sponsors). Each Sponsor can have no more than one 
representative on the Advisory Board. Each Sponsor's representative is 
appointed for a term of one (1) year, but can be re-appointed for a 
further year in office at the end of each term.
The AB's primary function is to represent The Document Foundation's 
Sponsors, and to provide the Board of Directors with advice, guidance 
and proposals.


to:
The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed, at the BoD's discretion by 
organisations that havemade a substantial contribution to The 
Document Foundation. Each organisation appointing a single 
representative to the Advisory Board based on a yearly fee to be 
determined by the BoD.
The AB's primary function is to represent these organisations by 
providing the BoD with advice, guidance and proposals.


Thoughts?


+1 to #1, #2, #3, #4 from my side.
Kind regards
Sophie


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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[David Nelson]

Hi,

When you've made your edits, can I have permission to proofread and
make minor grammar/spelling corrections?

-- 
David Nelson

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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Varun Mittal]

+1 from me too

Can we add some clarification for the case if  AB wants to replace their
representative mid way of his/her tenure ?

  Thank You

Best Regards
Varun Mittal
 
Blog 
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"Uncertainty is the only Certainty of LIFE"
 On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Charles-H. Schulz <
charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org> wrote:

> Hello Florian,
>
> 2011/6/9 Florian Effenberger 
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > as we are moving forward with legally setting up the foundation, and
> > translate/adapt the bylaws into German, we noticed that some tweaks and
> > simplifications are required - in general we feel the shorter these
> > documents are, the better it is for understanding.
> >
> > Proposed change #1:
> > ---
> >
> > We should replace the words "moral commitment" (which are rather
> > off-putting to many with a stark view of their integrity and morals) with
> > something softer:
> >
> > from:
> > Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three (3)
> > months, and should make a moral commitment to at least six (6) months
> > activity (not counting the first three (3) months of fulfillment of
> > qualification).
> >
> > to:
> > Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three (3)
> > months, and should make a best effort commitment to continuing their
> > activity for a further six (6) months.
> >
> > Which I hope captures the spirit, without invoking things that cannot be
> > predicted.
> >
> > Proposed change #2:
> > ---
> >
> > Then a separate set of changes & cleanups around the Advisory Board:
> >
> > * The /Donor/ definition is not referenced outside of the /Sponsor/
> > definition, and so should be collapsed into there.
> > * The /Sponsor/ definition is referenced in a redundant, non-normative
> way
> > by the Members/Contributors definition and should be removed.
> >
> > from:
> > The Community's Members are people who contribute their time, efforts and
> > skills independently (individual persons contributing on either a paid or
> > unpaid basis), or who may work for Sponsors (refer to definition of
> > Sponsors).
> >
> > to:
> > The Community's Members are individuals who contribute their time,
> efforts
> > and skills whether on a paid or voluntary basis.
> >
> > Proposed change #3:
> > ---
> >
> > * Remove the Sponsors section. This is now only referred to in the
> Advisory
> > Board definition and sections, and as such can be expanded there.
> >
> > * Expand the Advisory Board definition.
> >
> > from:
> > The Advisory Board represents the Foundation's Sponsors. Each Sponsor is
> > entitled to appoint one representative. For more information, see
> Advisory
> > Board under Governance.
> >
> > to:
> > The Advisory Board provides a forum for organisations that provide a
> > substantial minimum level of financial, or other support as determined by
> > the BoD to meet with the BoD and provide advice. For more information,
> see
> > Advisory Board under Governance.
> >
> > Proposed change #4:
> > ---
> >
> > * Re-work the Advisory Board section:
> >
> > from:
> > The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed by Sponsors' representatives (refer to
> > definition of Sponsors). Each Sponsor can have no more than one
> > representative on the Advisory Board. Each Sponsor's representative is
> > appointed for a term of one (1) year, but can be re-appointed for a
> further
> > year in office at the end of each term.
> > The AB's primary function is to represent The Document Foundation's
> > Sponsors, and to provide the Board of Directors with advice, guidance and
> > proposals.
> >
> > to:
> > The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed, at the BoD's discretion by
> > organisations that have  made a substantial contribution to The Document
> > Foundation. Each organisation appointing a single representative to the
> > Advisory Board based on a yearly fee to be determined by the BoD.
> > The AB's primary function is to represent these organisations by
> providing
> > the BoD with advice, guidance and proposals.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
>
> +1 on my side (they're mostly practical and editorial fixes).
>
> Best,
>
> Charles.
>
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Re: [steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Florian,

2011/6/9 Florian Effenberger 

> Hello,
>
> as we are moving forward with legally setting up the foundation, and
> translate/adapt the bylaws into German, we noticed that some tweaks and
> simplifications are required - in general we feel the shorter these
> documents are, the better it is for understanding.
>
> Proposed change #1:
> ---
>
> We should replace the words "moral commitment" (which are rather
> off-putting to many with a stark view of their integrity and morals) with
> something softer:
>
> from:
> Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three (3)
> months, and should make a moral commitment to at least six (6) months
> activity (not counting the first three (3) months of fulfillment of
> qualification).
>
> to:
> Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three (3)
> months, and should make a best effort commitment to continuing their
> activity for a further six (6) months.
>
> Which I hope captures the spirit, without invoking things that cannot be
> predicted.
>
> Proposed change #2:
> ---
>
> Then a separate set of changes & cleanups around the Advisory Board:
>
> * The /Donor/ definition is not referenced outside of the /Sponsor/
> definition, and so should be collapsed into there.
> * The /Sponsor/ definition is referenced in a redundant, non-normative way
> by the Members/Contributors definition and should be removed.
>
> from:
> The Community's Members are people who contribute their time, efforts and
> skills independently (individual persons contributing on either a paid or
> unpaid basis), or who may work for Sponsors (refer to definition of
> Sponsors).
>
> to:
> The Community's Members are individuals who contribute their time, efforts
> and skills whether on a paid or voluntary basis.
>
> Proposed change #3:
> ---
>
> * Remove the Sponsors section. This is now only referred to in the Advisory
> Board definition and sections, and as such can be expanded there.
>
> * Expand the Advisory Board definition.
>
> from:
> The Advisory Board represents the Foundation's Sponsors. Each Sponsor is
> entitled to appoint one representative. For more information, see Advisory
> Board under Governance.
>
> to:
> The Advisory Board provides a forum for organisations that provide a
> substantial minimum level of financial, or other support as determined by
> the BoD to meet with the BoD and provide advice. For more information, see
> Advisory Board under Governance.
>
> Proposed change #4:
> ---
>
> * Re-work the Advisory Board section:
>
> from:
> The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed by Sponsors' representatives (refer to
> definition of Sponsors). Each Sponsor can have no more than one
> representative on the Advisory Board. Each Sponsor's representative is
> appointed for a term of one (1) year, but can be re-appointed for a further
> year in office at the end of each term.
> The AB's primary function is to represent The Document Foundation's
> Sponsors, and to provide the Board of Directors with advice, guidance and
> proposals.
>
> to:
> The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed, at the BoD's discretion by
> organisations that have  made a substantial contribution to The Document
> Foundation. Each organisation appointing a single representative to the
> Advisory Board based on a yearly fee to be determined by the BoD.
> The AB's primary function is to represent these organisations by providing
> the BoD with advice, guidance and proposals.
>
> Thoughts?
>

+1 on my side (they're mostly practical and editorial fixes).

Best,

Charles.

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[steering-discuss] proposed bylaws changes

[Florian Effenberger]

Hello,

as we are moving forward with legally setting up the foundation, and 
translate/adapt the bylaws into German, we noticed that some tweaks and 
simplifications are required - in general we feel the shorter these 
documents are, the better it is for understanding.


Proposed change #1:
---

We should replace the words "moral commitment" (which are rather 
off-putting to many with a stark view of their integrity and morals) 
with something softer:


from:
Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three (3) 
months, and should make a moral commitment to at least six (6) months 
activity (not counting the first three (3) months of fulfillment of 
qualification).


to:
Every membership applicant must have been active for at least three (3) 
months, and should make a best effort commitment to continuing their 
activity for a further six (6) months.


Which I hope captures the spirit, without invoking things that cannot be 
predicted.


Proposed change #2:
---

Then a separate set of changes & cleanups around the Advisory Board:

* The /Donor/ definition is not referenced outside of the /Sponsor/ 
definition, and so should be collapsed into there.
* The /Sponsor/ definition is referenced in a redundant, non-normative 
way by the Members/Contributors definition and should be removed.


from:
The Community's Members are people who contribute their time, efforts 
and skills independently (individual persons contributing on either a 
paid or unpaid basis), or who may work for Sponsors (refer to definition 
of Sponsors).


to:
The Community's Members are individuals who contribute their time, 
efforts and skills whether on a paid or voluntary basis.


Proposed change #3:
---

* Remove the Sponsors section. This is now only referred to in the 
Advisory Board definition and sections, and as such can be expanded there.


* Expand the Advisory Board definition.

from:
The Advisory Board represents the Foundation's Sponsors. Each Sponsor is 
entitled to appoint one representative. For more information, see 
Advisory Board under Governance.


to:
The Advisory Board provides a forum for organisations that provide a 
substantial minimum level of financial, or other support as determined 
by the BoD to meet with the BoD and provide advice. For more 
information, see Advisory Board under Governance.


Proposed change #4:
---

* Re-work the Advisory Board section:

from:
The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed by Sponsors' representatives (refer 
to definition of Sponsors). Each Sponsor can have no more than one 
representative on the Advisory Board. Each Sponsor's representative is 
appointed for a term of one (1) year, but can be re-appointed for a 
further year in office at the end of each term.
The AB's primary function is to represent The Document Foundation's 
Sponsors, and to provide the Board of Directors with advice, guidance 
and proposals.


to:
The Advisory Board [AB] is staffed, at the BoD's discretion by 
organisations that have	made a substantial contribution to The Document 
Foundation. Each organisation appointing a single representative to the 
Advisory Board based on a yearly fee to be determined by the BoD.
The AB's primary function is to represent these organisations by 
providing the BoD with advice, guidance and proposals.


Thoughts?

Florian

--
Florian Effenberger 
Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff

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