Re: [L3] RE: religious/political question
On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 10:56:30AM +0530, ritu wrote: Not that phenomenal...hmm, how about this: 'In the aftermath of 9/11, a large number of Indian muslims spoke out against the atrocity. In fact, only a few of the 120 million Indian muslims spoke in favour of OBL and they were condemned/criticised/stoned for doing so.' Is that better? :) A little. But I don't put a high value on such anecdotal evidence. A poll of at least 1000 of those people (randomly selected across a diverse range of backgrounds) asking how favorably they view OBL would be more convincing. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: [L3] RE: religious/political question
Erik Reuter wrote: A little. But I don't put a high value on such anecdotal evidence. A poll of at least 1000 of those people (randomly selected across a diverse range of backgrounds) asking how favorably they view OBL would be more convincing. I don't think their support[or lack thereof] for OBL has ever been the subject of a poll question. At least I haven't come across any such poll. And unlike Pakistan, Indian muslims just don't seem to be included in the international polls on the subject. I have always found that a bit strange as India has the second largest muslim population in the world - only Indonesia has more muslims than India. Ritu ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [L3] RE: religious/political question
On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 05:51:20PM +0530, ritu wrote: And unlike Pakistan, Indian muslims just don't seem to be included in the international polls on the subject. I have always found that a bit strange as India has the second largest muslim population in the world - only Indonesia has more muslims than India. Maybe an India-based entrepreneur should start a polling organization. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: [L3] RE: religious/political question
Erik Reuter wrote: Maybe an India-based entrepreneur should start a polling organization. We have some - it's just that their questions are focused on subcontinental, national and local politics and issues. Ritu ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: [L3] RE: religious/political question
From: ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [L3] RE: religious/political question Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:01:42 +0530 Erik Reuter wrote: Maybe an India-based entrepreneur should start a polling organization. We have some - it's just that their questions are focused on subcontinental, national and local politics and issues. Heh. In a country with just over a billion people and 16 'official' languages I would think any polling agencies would have their work cut out for them just handling that. Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [L3] RE: religious/political question
- Original Message - From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 5:54 AM Subject: Re: [L3] RE: religious/political question On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 10:56:30AM +0530, ritu wrote: Not that phenomenal...hmm, how about this: 'In the aftermath of 9/11, a large number of Indian muslims spoke out against the atrocity. In fact, only a few of the 120 million Indian muslims spoke in favour of OBL and they were condemned/criticised/stoned for doing so.' Is that better? :) A little. But I don't put a high value on such anecdotal evidence. A poll of at least 1000 of those people (randomly selected across a diverse range of backgrounds) asking how favorably they view OBL would be more convincing. It may also be worthwhile to know what the nature of these Indian Muslims who spoke out was. If they were people who Ritu happened to know, it would be as anecdotal as Erik suggested. But, if one could list important Islamic teachers and leaders in India and point out that they have consistently spoke out against the actions of OBL, then it would be in line with what Gautam asked for. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: Cocoa Has More Antioxidants Than Red Wine, Tea
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Deborah Harrell wrote: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snippage At least no one has brought up Coke versus Pepsi . . . That's because it's *obvious* that Coca-Cola is far superior in every way to Brittany's drink...well, OK - the commercials with Dole *were* pretty funny... Anyone have an opinion of the Dr. Pepper commercials? I enjoy watching them. I don't care to drink their product, but I like the entertainment their advertising provides me. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, The Fool wrote: From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] JDG - Who wonders if he should be proud in some sense that those who you use code words for anti-Catholic bigotry aren't immediately driven out of the public forum. What code words? What exactly are you talking about? Are you drunk or high? I'd guess tired, based on the time stamp of his original post. *I* sure am Julia but JDG doesn't have my particular excuse, then again, I'm tired at 10AM... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: Cocoa Has More Antioxidants Than Red Wine, Tea
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Reggie Bautista wrote: Ronn! wrote: At least no one has brought up Coke versus Pepsi . . . Julia has already mentioned RC, but I haven't seen anyone yet bring up an RC Cola and a moon-pie... There's too much squishiness for the quantity of chocolate present in a moon pie, IMO. But I didn't grow up eating them, I grew up eating Devil Dogs. Reggie Bautista And I'm Not Even From The South Maru And I didn't grow up there. :) They serve RC Cola at Arby's. Maybe I ought to go to Arby's sometime soon. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Vacation was Re: Philosophical question
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 12:30 AM 11/12/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Kevin Tarr wrote: The vacation was mostly good. Two days of visiting wineries tasting their products. I don't like wine, but bought some bottles anyway. Spent two hours in the hot tub watching the eclipse in a completely clear sky. It was so cold however that water splashed out froze on the deck. Ever been in a hot tub outside while it was snowing? There's a distance above the water at which the snowflakes melt. You see them coming down, then you don't really see them once they've melted. It's fun. I thought the whole point of getting in a hot tub was to be so distracted that one is unlikely to notice anything else . . . The other activities I was doing were still merely at the flirting stage. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
At 10:02 AM 11/13/2003 -0600 Julia Thompson wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, The Fool wrote: From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] JDG - Who wonders if he should be proud in some sense that those who you use code words for anti-Catholic bigotry aren't immediately driven out of the public forum. What code words? What exactly are you talking about? Are you drunk or high? I'd guess tired, based on the time stamp of his original post. *I* sure am Julia but JDG doesn't have my particular excuse, then again, I'm tired at 10AM... No, I definitely don't have your excuse Julia --- not yet anyways.Then again, I'm statistically unlikely to ever have twins alongside another young one, so I guess that you've got me beat. :) But anyhow, tiredness didn't actually play into my above post.I was alluding to the fact that two football commentators, Rush Limbaugh and Gregg Easterbrook, lost their jobs this year under accusations of using code words for racism and anti-Semitism, respectively. In at least the case of the former, many List Members agreed that use of code words was an appropriate reason for driving someone out of the public sphere of commentary. Given that The Fool was trotting out the old codewords for anti-Catholicism in this country, namely that Catholics are all in hock to orders of the Pope, it seemed like an apt anaology. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Abortion: CNN Recommends Abortion for Down's Syndrome Babies
NATIONAL REVIEW ONLIN November 10, 2003, 9:04 a.m. Dr. Snuff, I Presume? CNN's brave new world. By Dave Shiflett When Fox News proclaims itself fair and balanced, many eyes roll, including my perfectly matched set. Fox's definite right-wing slant explains its growing popularity; it's why cranks like me tune in, at least from time to time. The blonde news babes don't hurt either. Many of us would rather learn of the latest catastrophe from a fox than a broken-down hound like Dan or Peter. But Fox's quest to take over the world gains its greatest strength from its competition, which sometimes manages to outrage even some of the liberal faithful. I offer as evidence a recent story on CNN concerning a new prenatal test that can detect the presence of Down Syndrome. CNN's website reported the primary benefit of this test is that it gives mothers-to-be more peace of mind and more time to end a pregnancy, a position shared by on-air medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta (a.k.a. Dr. Snuff). This emphasis on the extermination option outraged many Down parents, including my friend and associate, Ian Danielsen. Ian, it should be understood, is a yellow-dawg lib, and also the singer in a band in which I play. He attempts to goad me into political debate on a regular basis (as do the other band members), though without success. It is reasonably said that his political condition is dire. Just the other day I heard talk about attending a separation of church and state rally. What a glorious way to spend one's afternoon! In addition, his dad's a Democratic-party stalwart appointed to run Virginia's Alcoholic Beverage Control monopoly a crucial position in our boozy commonwealth. Despite these shortcomings, Ian immediately grasped CNN's dark message. It was all about eliminating those who would, were they given the chance, probably turn out like Ian's lovely Rachel. And so, like many good stamp-licking liberals, Ian took pen to paper and fired off a letter in this case to Dr. Gupta and allied henchpersons. Let us quote liberally, illuminating where warranted: This presumption that early detection of a disability would naturally lead a mother to terminate her pregnancy smacks of a modest proposal' mentality, the letter noted. Heretofore, I was not aware that CNN was in the business of editorializing on such grave social policy implications. Such is the sound of scales falling from eyes. The fact of course is that CNN editorializes throughout the day and night, as do its competitors. Otherwise, viewers are in danger of drawing improper conclusions. The letter continued: In fact, many parents decline prenatal testing due to the risk of spontaneous miscarriage and their willingness to accept their future child, even if he/she has a birth defect or medical condition many expectant mothers would benefit from early detection of Down Syndrome to begin to assess the fetus's heart, so that if there is an issue there, assessment and care can begin prenatally. Were notions such as these seen as too preposterous to be included along with the abortion angle? The sad answer is yes. Abortion is not only widely deployed against children with Down Syndrome. It is expected, and praised. Jocelyn Elders, just prior to being named Bill Clinton's surgeon general, famously proclaimed that abortion has had an important and positive public-health effect because it reduced the number of children afflicted with severe defects. She pointed out that the number of Down Syndrome infants in Washington state in 1976 was 64 percent lower than it would have been without legal abortion. Elders, known by some as a leading pom-pom girl for the Culture of Death, was simply stating a commonplace perspective. Ian assured Dr. Snuff that he's philosophically pro-choice, especially when the mother's and fetus's lives are threatened. But that is not generally the case with Down Syndrome, as people with this condition are actually more normal than not; and as their average life expectancy is on a sharpening curve of improvement as a result of early detection, early intervention and improved nutritional and medical practices .Please ask yourselves, from a standpoint of reporting the modern context of family medicine, are you perhaps still in the first half of the previous century? (All emphasis in original.) Yet Dr. Gupta is clearly very much up to date. Weeding out the unfit and otherwise inconvenient a practice once known as eugenics is standard operating procedure, and one with adherents on the left and right. Those not up to snuff stand a good chance of being snuffed, and those with conditions such as Down Syndrome are easy targets. Ian himself made the point quite well: It is a sad truth in American culture that people with conditions affecting the mind and brain are unduly labeled as being their condition as opposed to having it. For example, people with schizophrenia are called schizophrenics. Similarly, people with mental
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
- Original Message - From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 10:26 AM Subject: Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope Given that The Fool was trotting out the old codewords for anti-Catholicism in this country, namely that Catholics are all in hock to orders of the Pope, it seemed like an apt anaology. JDG There are a couple points to be made here. First, I cannot imagine the Fool being able to keep a media job if he put out one day of his posts on the airways. I agree that the statement about the pope ruling American politicians is an old like from anti-Catholic prejudice. When Kennedy was running, he undid this with his famous remark separating the public actions of Catholic politicians from the teachings of the pope. At the time, this speech received the blessing of the Catholic bishops. It was considered key to his becoming president. The news story reported the Catholic bishops discussing the dismantling of this agreement; with sanctions for Catholic public figures who follow it. These sanctions can include excommunication from the Catholic church. The real inaccuracy in the title was the use of the phrase to punish. An accurate statement would be are discussing punishing. If the punishment is a matter of not giving honorary degrees, I'm not too worried. But, if they expect all Catholic politicians to toe the party line on all votes under pain of excommunication, then all hell will be out for noon. I don't think the bishops are that stupid. My guess is that the reporter caught the bishops venting their frustrations concerning how little influence they have over the viewpoints and actions of Catholics. But, I do know that there is a movement in the Catholic church to enforce top down discipline, with don't let the door hit you on the way out for all who won't follow the party line. If they really want to reduce the Catholic church to the remnant faithful, this would be a wonderful first step. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The danger of blogging...
http://www.theonion.com/3944/news3.html Mom Finds Out About Blog MINNEAPOLIS, MN--In a turn of events the 30-year-old characterized as horrifying, Kevin Widmar announced Tuesday that his mother Lillian has discovered his weblog. Widmar, whose blog was recently discovered by his mother Lillian (inset). Above: Widmar, whose blog was recently discovered by his mother Lillian (inset). Apparently, Mom typed [Widmar's employer] Dean Healthcare into Google along with my name and, lo and behold, PlanetKevin popped up, Widmar said. I'm so fucked. In an e-mail sent to Widmar Monday, Lillian reported in large purple letters that she was VERY EXCITED :)!!! to find his computer diary, but was perplexed that he hadn't mentioned it to her. Upon receipt of the e-mail, Widmar mentally raced through the contents of his blog. He immediately thought of several dozen posts in which he mentioned drinking, drug use, casual sex, and other behavior likely to alarm his mother. I don't have one of those sites that's a big tell-all about one-night stands and wild parties, Widmar said. I mostly write about the animation I like or little things that happen to me and my friends. But there are definitely things in there that I wouldn't, well, write home to Mom about. Fortunately for Widmar, Lillian's comments about the site indicate that she has not delved deeply into its contents. Mom's main comment was that I look tired in the photos from my birthday party, so I'm guessing that she didn't get past the first page yet, Widmar said. She will, though. She will. Widmar said he expects his site to provide Lillian with ample cause for worry. Even on that benign front page, she found something to freak out about, Widmar said. She read the entry for Monday, where I mentioned how much I hate my job, and e-mailed to say that she hoped I wasn't thinking of quitting in this economy. Mom had a fit when she found out that I put my television on my credit card, Widmar added. If she reads about how I was with my friend Jayson when he got pulled over for drunk driving, I'll never hear the end of it. Oh God, Widmar said with a gasp. Three days ago, I wrote something about buying pot! Widmar said that the idea of his mother immersing herself in the boring details of his life is just as frightening as the idea of her discovering his misconduct. Really, the blog is just a record of what I think about the world and how I spend my free time, Widmar said. In other words, exactly the sort of information that no 30-year-old wants his mom to have access to. Widmar said he imagines his inbox filling up with e-mails containing elaborate questions about an off-hand comment on Kill Bill--or, should he appear to have too much free time, requests for him to come and visit her. I know enough not to tell Mom that I'm seeing a girl until it's serious, Widmar said. Now, she's going to know exactly who I hang out with, where I go, and what I spend my time doing on a daily basis. I am so in hell right now. God, my links alone contain unlimited fodder for Mom's neuroses, Widmar said. She'll have access to not only my life, but the lives of all my friends who have web sites. She'll have the names of all the places in Minneapolis where we hang out, which she can--and will--look up. With the raw materials in my blog, she could actually construct an accurate picture of who I am. This is fucking serious. To think that I was happy that Mom was e-mailing instead of calling ever since [Widmar's sister] Karen got her online last year, he added. I didn't see the danger. According to Widmar, there's no fucking chance that Lillian will simply give the site a cursory look and never return. Mom loves hearing every boring detail of her kids' lives, he said. She'd want to know what I'm eating for dinner every night, if she could. This blog is like porn for her. Come to think of it, why do I sometimes write about what I ate for dinner? Widmar asked. Seeing his blog through his mother's eyes, Widmar said he knows there's no way the site can remain unchanged. I know Mom will instantly become the site's most avid reader and most vocal fan, Widmar said. As I write it, I'll think, 'How would Mom feel about this?' Even worse, I'm sure she'll give the address to all our relatives. All of the tactics Widmar has considered to divert his mother seem unworkable. I could take it down for a few weeks, but I know she wouldn't just forget about it, Widmar said. I could edit the site and send my other readers through a back door, to another blog just for them. But, I mean, that's just ridiculous. If Widmar starts a blog at a new address, without his full name this time, he said he risks losing close to 100 regular readers. As of press time, Widmar had not decided whether to shut PlanetKevin down. The clock is ticking, Widmar said. I've gotta act fast. At this very minute, she might be reading about the time I did Ecstasy last
Frist the liar
http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2003_archives/002714.html Reason's Julian Sanchez is dumbfounded by the fact that, for Republican Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist's staff, telling the truth is simply not a consideration to be taken into account: Hit Run: Doctoring the Numbers: ...a question asking visitors Should the President's nominees to the federal bench be allowed an up or down vote on confirmation as specified in the Constitution?... liberal weblogger's readers began voting no in overwhelming numbers. Uh-oh. So Frist's web folk changed the wording to make it a little more obvious which answer they considered the right one. The revised question asked: Should the Senate exercise its Constitutional duty to provide the President's judicial nominees with an up or down vote? Unfortunately, the nays still had it by a wide margin--an even wider margin at some points, in fact. So what did they do this time? Instead of just pulling the poll altogether--which would be craven, but not grossly dishonest--the majority leader's webfolk changed the question to reverse the meaning of the yes and no answers. The question now reads: Should the Senate minority block the body's Constitutional duty to provide the President's judicial nominees with an up or down vote? So, will the senator reprimand his staffers for this obvious mendacity, maybe post an apology? And if he doesn't--if lying is considered OK in the Frist office on something this trivial--why should we trust him to be any more scrupulous when it comes to something that actually matters? And, more importantly, what kind of imbecile webmaster thinks that you can pull off something this brazen without anyone calling bullshit? Update: You've got to be kidding... After waiting for the poll (with the Should the Senate minority block... wording) to just barely tip back in favor of the yes vote, the thing was tossed to the archive, but now with the original wording. Frist's webmaster is really putting in overtime on this one. But was there any reason to trust Bush, or Frist, or Delay about anything of substance before? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 10:02 AM 11/13/2003 -0600 Julia Thompson wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, The Fool wrote: From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] JDG - Who wonders if he should be proud in some sense that those who you use code words for anti-Catholic bigotry aren't immediately driven out of the public forum. What code words? What exactly are you talking about? Are you drunk or high? I'd guess tired, based on the time stamp of his original post. *I* sure am Julia but JDG doesn't have my particular excuse, then again, I'm tired at 10AM... No, I definitely don't have your excuse Julia --- not yet anyways. Then again, I'm statistically unlikely to ever have twins alongside another young one, so I guess that you've got me beat. :) But anyhow, tiredness didn't actually play into my above post.I was alluding to the fact that two football commentators, Rush Limbaugh and Gregg Easterbrook, lost their jobs this year under accusations of using code words for racism and anti-Semitism, respectively. In at least the case of the former, many List Members agreed that use of code words was an appropriate reason for driving someone out of the public sphere of commentary. Given that The Fool was trotting out the old codewords for anti-Catholicism in this country, namely that Catholics are all in hock to orders of the Pope, it seemed like an apt anaology. I still think you were high when you wrote that. I not anti-catholic, I'm Anti-Christ. There's a difference. Any politician who obeys the pope over the constitution is committing high crimes and treason. I'm still looking for where you explain why telling people that bishops are going to excommunicate politicians who don't obey is bigoted and anti-catholic? It's what the article said. God pushers are no better than drug dealers. The first one's always free. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: religious/political question
Ritu wrote: I have always found that a bit strange as India has the second largest muslim population in the world - only Indonesia has more muslims than India. India probably has the second largest in the world of everything: religious group, ethnic group, consumer of a product, any profession, fans of anything, etc :-) BTW, how many muslims are there in China? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Abortion: CNN Recommends Abortion for Down's Syndrome Babies
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Abortion: CNN Recommends Abortion for Down's Syndrome Babies Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:33:49 -0500 NATIONAL REVIEW ONLIN November 10, 2003, 9:04 a.m. Dr. Snuff, I Presume? CNN's brave new world. By Dave Shiflett snip Dave Shiflett is a member of the White House Writers Group. Thanks for posting this. I am familiar with the WHWG in a professional capacity. They're a very talented bunch (founded by Reagan and Bush I speechwriters) who sometimes contribute editorials to right-slanted publications like the WSJ. Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Empire Of Lies
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 04:46 PM 11/12/2003 -0800 Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll agree fully that the average person in Iraq is better off now than a year ago. But, the overwhelming majority in Iraq sees the US as an occupier, not a liberator. And, their opinion of us, as measured in polls, is rapidly deteriorating. Dan M. Dan, I have to tell you that I frankly don't believe this. As you know, I have personal reasons for keeping a _very_ close eye on the situation in Iraq, and I frankly don't trust the poll results that you reported - they don't agree with any other poll that I've seen, and they don't agree with the consensus of people on the ground whom I've spoken to either. Indeed, as I noted in a previous post, _The Economist_ published poll results that contradict Dan's impressions just this week. Now, it is possible that all of the polls are inaccurate; I'd be willing to believe that there might be something to be said about techniques that work well in the US or Europe not being as robust in Iraq. But, I would like to see why other techniques of understanding are superior. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=542ncid=703e=1u=/ap/200 31112/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iraq_cia A new top-secret intelligence report warns that Iraqis are losing faith in U.S.-led occupation forces, a development that is increasing support for the resistance, officials said Wednesday. ... It suggests spiraling violence and a lack of confidence in the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council may be bringing efforts to a turning point, sending more Iraqis over to the side of insurgents fighting occupation troops, said two officials speaking on condition of anonymity. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Fox News, we distort, you comply.
http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=Mike02 Fox News, we distort, you comply. Aparently, there's more than one memo circulating. Manuel Miranda, a staffer for Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist sent a memo around to Republicans regarding the 30 hour filibuster. Fox News wanted to make sure they started on time, so they could put in on their 'unbiased' show. They pointed to a memo from Manuel Miranda, a staffer for Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.), which said: It is important to double efforts to get your boss to S-230 on time ... Fox News Channel is really excited about this marathon and Brit Hume at 6 would love to open with all our 51 senators walking onto the floor -- the producer wants to know will we walk in exactly at 6:02 when the show starts so they get it live to open Brit Hume's show? Or if not, can we give them an exact time for the walk-in start? --- http://www.thehill.com/story.asp?id=139 Senate debate on judicial nominees has fractious start By Klaus Marre The 30-hour debate on President Bush's judicial nominees began on a testy note Wednesday night. After Republicans walked into the Senate chamber together to begin the extraordinary session, Democrats argued that their move was not a show of unity but rather a television stunt orchestrated for Fox News. They pointed to a memo from Manuel Miranda, a staffer for Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.), which said: It is important to double efforts to get your boss to S-230 on time ... Fox News Channel is really excited about this marathon and Brit Hume at 6 would love to open with all our 51 senators walking onto the floor -- the producer wants to know will we walk in exactly at 6:02 when the show starts so they get it live to open Brit Hume's show? Or if not, can we give them an exact time for the walk-in start? Democrats had unsuccessfully attempted to delay the debate until 8 p.m. to allow the Senate to first complete its work on the VA/HUD appropriations bill. But even after the debate began, Democrats kept the heat on their GOP counterparts. As Frist spoke on the floor, Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) walked into the chamber with a sign that said: I'll be home watching 'The Bachelor', which elicited snickers from the press gallery. Republicans also requested that Democrats remove a sign from the floor as Frist addressed the Senate. The sign indicated that Democrats have confirmed 168 of the president's judicial nominees since 2001 and have only blocked four. Democrats initially ignored the request, but later complied, as only the senator currently speaking on the floor is allowed to display any signs. Republicans strongly criticized the Democrats' tactic to filibuster judicial nominees and hoped to highlight the issue in the marathon debate. Frist called the Democratic maneuver dangerous new ground. Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) added that Democrats are treating Bush in a ridiculous and unconstitutional fashion. He noted that hardly anything [on the Senate agenda] is more important than the president's right to nominate judges. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: Cocoa Has More Antioxidants Than Red Wine, Tea
On 13 Nov 2003, at 4:03 pm, Julia Thompson wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Reggie Bautista wrote: Ronn! wrote: At least no one has brought up Coke versus Pepsi . . . Julia has already mentioned RC, but I haven't seen anyone yet bring up an RC Cola and a moon-pie... There's too much squishiness for the quantity of chocolate present in a moon pie, IMO. But I didn't grow up eating them, I grew up eating Devil Dogs. Reggie Bautista And I'm Not Even From The South Maru And I didn't grow up there. :) They serve RC Cola at Arby's. Maybe I ought to go to Arby's sometime soon. The UK equivalent of the Moon Pie is the Wagon Wheel (most popular with jam rather than original). That could be eaten with Irn Bru for maximum fat and sugar. http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/biscuits/previous.php3?item=64 http://www.bevnet.com/reviews/irn-bru/index.asp -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Aerospace is plumbing with the volume turned up. - John Carmack ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: religious/political question
From: Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: religious/political question Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:40:57 + Ritu wrote: I have always found that a bit strange as India has the second largest muslim population in the world - only Indonesia has more muslims than India. India probably has the second largest in the world of everything: religious group, ethnic group, consumer of a product, any profession, fans of anything, etc :-) BTW, how many muslims are there in China? Estimation is 1 - 2% of 1.28 billion people. (from CIA Factbook) So somewhere between 10 and 20 million, I guess. Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Scouted: Ten Commandments Judge Sent Packing
http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34tmpl=fcin=Worldcat=Religion Excerpt: Commandments Judge Removed From Bench (AP) - Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore was removed from office Thursday for refusing to obey a federal court order to move his Ten Commandments monument from the rotunda of the state courthouse. The state Court of the Judiciary unanimously imposed the harshest penalty possible after a one-day trial in which Moore said his refusal was a moral and lawful acknowledgment of God. Prosecutors said Moore's defiance, left unchecked, would harm the judicial system. Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fox News, we distort, you comply.
At 01:29 PM 11/13/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote: http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=Mike02 Fox News, we distort, you comply. Distortion? Didn't see any of that here. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fox News, we distort, you comply.
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 01:29 PM 11/13/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote: http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=Mike02 Fox News, we distort, you comply. Distortion? Didn't see any of that here. So they report both side fairly is what you are saying? Even with Brit Hume slavering to show the right-wing extremists in a good light, because he is a partisan ideologue? Fox news is nothing more than the propaganda arm of the shrub administration. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fox News, we distort, you comply.
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 01:29 PM 11/13/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote: http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=Mike02 Fox News, we distort, you comply. Distortion? Didn't see any of that here. You complain when I modify an article title even the smallest amount and then you turn around and complain when I don't change them at all. You want it both ways. I think you just want to complain because your right wing ideology is consistantly refuted. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Frist the liar
At 12:12 PM 11/13/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote: http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2003_archives/002714.html My goodness, if the best thing liberals can now bash Republicans for is a 'Net Poll, then Bush really is going to run away with next year's election. Great news thanks for the link Fool. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fox News, we distort, you comply.
- Original Message - From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 3:21 PM Subject: Re: Fox News, we distort, you comply. From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 01:29 PM 11/13/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote: http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=Mike02 Fox News, we distort, you comply. Distortion? Didn't see any of that here. So they report both side fairly is what you are saying? Even with Brit Hume slavering to show the right-wing extremists in a good light, because he is a partisan ideologue? Fox news is nothing more than the propaganda arm of the shrub administration. Out of curiosity, who are the high profile liberal commentators on Fox? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Will the US withdraw from Iraq and declare victory before the 2004 election?
At http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34tmpl=fcin=Worldcat=Iraq I found a story that includes the following: quote The Bush administration is proposing elections in Iraq (news - web sites) in the first half of next year and the formation of a government before a constitution is written, as it seeks to speed up the shift of power the Iraqis..The revised approach is a change in course for the Bush administration, which originally insisted on a long period of transition that involved the completion of a constitution before elections were held. unquote Combining this with the proposed decrease in US troops, it seems that the administration is targeting leaving and declaring sucess some time in the fall of 2004. Earlier stories indicated the the ruling council was purposfully dragging their feet on the constitution so that the US would have to give them more power before any constitution. Another story that fits this pattern is the cutting of the training time for Iraq security down to two weeks (I think it was 6-8 weeks at first). Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Frist the liar
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 12:12 PM 11/13/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote: http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2003_archives/002714.html My goodness, if the best thing liberals can now bash Republicans for is a 'Net Poll, then Bush really is going to run away with next year's election. Great news thanks for the link Fool. It just shows that Deceit, Deception, and self-Delusion are the key tactics of right wing extremists. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Frist the liar
- Original Message - From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 4:07 PM Subject: Re: Frist the liar From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 12:12 PM 11/13/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote: http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2003_archives/002714.html My goodness, if the best thing liberals can now bash Republicans for is a 'Net Poll, then Bush really is going to run away with next year's election. Great news thanks for the link Fool. It just shows that Deceit, Deception, and self-Delusion are the key tactics of right wing extremists. When you decide who is an extremist and who is not, how do you decide the mean? Do you attempt to make an empirical measurement of the distribution of opinions, and then find the center, with 3 SD on either side being extremists? Or, do you assume that your opinions are the standards that all others should be measured by? Thanks in advance for the clarification. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Frist the liar
The Fool wrote: It just shows that Deceit, Deception, and self-Delusion are the key tactics of right wing extremists. Umm - shouldn't that read: It just shows that Deceit, Deception, and self-Delusion are the key tactics of politicians... Actually, political leaders is probably a better term as it would include dictators, monarchy, and those who push their agenda via their military, terrorist group or their religious organisation... Deceit, Deception, and self-Delusion were the tactics of taking control of a community when mankind still lived in caves, and have served many a ruler well... Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The Original Sin of the United States Re: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: Raceism L3
At 12:20 PM 11/6/2003 -0600 Dan Minette wrote: At 09:57 AM 10/28/2003 -0600 Dan Minette wrote: Well, that slaughter started well before the US existed, so it did come first. But, I was thinking how racism is written into the Constitution. Which also applies to the Native Americans, no? Is there an explicit mention of Native Americans in the constitution? Yes. Albeit in a less dehumanizing way than assigning them 3/5 of a peronhood or to slavery - it ratherly simply states that if they are not taxed then they are not citizens of the United States. Anyhow, the reason I consider our treatment of Native Americans to be the United States original sin is as follows: The sin of slavery was at least a *choice* of the United States as an entity, inasmuch as it was written into the Constitution. In Catholic original sin theology, original sin is not _your_ *first* sin. Rather it is the sin of our ancestors, a sin upon which we owe our very existence, and a sin which has produced a debt that can never be repaid. All of these aspects, with the possible exception of the last one being at least arguable, apply much more directly to the treatment of Native Americans than to slavery. The mistreatment of Native Americans both intention and unintentional (such as in the case of certain diseases) was carried out in large part by predecssors of the United States - although admittedly the sins were then perpetuated by the United States long after slavery was abolished, the origins of eliminating the Native Americans came long before the United States. Secondly, without the elimination of the Native Americans the United States is never reallly the United States. Without elimination of the Native Americans there is no Manifest Destiny, and without Manifest Destiny the United States may never become the dominant nation in the world.I think that in large part the US owes its national greatness to the richness of its geography - which was seized from the Native Americans. Lastly, far too many Native Americans have been killed for the wrongs the United States has committed against the Native Americans to every be rectified in any meaningful sense.The First Peoples of the United States in almost all cases will be a tiny minority in their own lands in every sense - cultural, lingual, and political. There's no way to turn back the clock. If we are to map US history into Christian Theology, I would say that the Civil War is a much closer parallel to the United States' crucifixtion. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
At 12:46 PM 11/13/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote: I still think you were high when you wrote that. I not anti-catholic, I'm Anti-Christ. There's a difference. So, is it possible in your mind to be Anti-Christ and not Anti-Catholic? Any politician who obeys the pope over the constitution is committing high crimes and treason. I am unaware of the Pope ever giving an order to a politician to disobey the Constitution. I'm still looking for where you explain why telling people that bishops are going to excommunicate politicians who don't obey is bigoted and anti-catholic? It's what the article said. Bzzt.Try again.Or did you even read the article before adding your insults to it and spamming the List? JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Frist the liar
From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Frist the liar Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:07:03 -0600 From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 12:12 PM 11/13/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote: http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2003_archives/002714.html My goodness, if the best thing liberals can now bash Republicans for is a 'Net Poll, then Bush really is going to run away with next year's election. Great news thanks for the link Fool. It just shows that Deceit, Deception, and self-Delusion are the key tactics of right wing extremists. _ Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
Its a good thing Catholics are Jews Fool, or else you might really have gotten yourself in trouble at the very least you probably wouldn't be allowed to write football columns any more Catholics are Jews? Um...since when...? Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fox News, we distort, you comply.
At 03:27 PM 11/13/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote: You complain when I modify an article title even the smallest amount I was not complaining that you modified the article title. I was complaining that your new title was misleading and containing code-words for bigotry. and then you turn around and complain when I don't change them at all. Calling this an article title is also misleading maybe a propaganda title. I think you just want to complain because your right wing ideology is consistantly refuted. I can only hope that the Republicans' Democratic opponents all use such quality logic in the coming election. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Frist the liar
From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Frist the liar Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:07:03 -0600 From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 12:12 PM 11/13/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote: http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2003_archives/002714.html My goodness, if the best thing liberals can now bash Republicans for is a 'Net Poll, then Bush really is going to run away with next year's election. Great news thanks for the link Fool. It just shows that Deceit, Deception, and self-Delusion are the key tactics of right wing extremists. And _left-wing_ extremists are apparently haunted by an intense paranoia that someone is out to get them ;-) ALL politicians use deceit, deception and self-delusion. This is not a phenomenon limited to either side of the political fence. It is impossible to please 100% of the people 100% of the time, so politicians use whatever tools they have in an attempt to maintain appearances and please the majority. They're also trying to push an agenda. It's ironic that your posts use such vehement, unyielding words to describe the 'evil' 'fascist' extremists that oppose your beliefs. Perhaps 'ironic' is less accurate than 'hypocritical'? Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:34:30 -0500 snip Any politician who obeys the pope over the constitution is committing high crimes and treason. I am unaware of the Pope ever giving an order to a politician to disobey the Constitution. You're dissembling, and he's right, but paranoid (imo). If an edict is passed by the Vatican and a religious politician obeys that edict rather than uphold a freedom granted to his constituents by the Constitution, then that politician is comitting a Federal crime. It's seems quite straightforward to me. Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Scouted: Alabama chickens come home to roost
ALABAMA CHICKENS COME HOME TO ROOST: This fall, state and national conservative groups led the charge to kill Alabama Gov. Bob Riley's tax redistribution efforts and now aren't willing to pay the price. The Republican governor warned at the time that the cash-strapped state was in dire fiscal straits, as he attempted to pull in revenue while easing taxes on the state's poor by shifting more of the burden to corporations. Now, with the coffers gone dry, the government is having to slice services to the very bone. But A HREF=http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20031110amp;Category=APNamp;ArtNo=311100815amp;SectionCat;the disconnect over paying for services/A has already set in. While 68% of the state rejected increasing taxes for the wealthy corporations, a new poll shows a majority is strongly opposing plans to cut education spending by almost $200 million and to eliminate funding for 3,400 teaching positions across the state. And believe it or not, one of the men leading the opposition to the tax is now leading the complaint about the cuts; Roger McConnell, of Mobile, is complaining that Riley should not be cutting teachers. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
At 06:00 PM 11/13/2003 -0500 Jon Gabriel wrote: From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:34:30 -0500 snip Any politician who obeys the pope over the constitution is committing high crimes and treason. I am unaware of the Pope ever giving an order to a politician to disobey the Constitution. You're dissembling, and he's right, but paranoid (imo). If an edict is passed by the Vatican and a religious politician obeys that edict rather than uphold a freedom granted to his constituents by the Constitution, then that politician is comitting a Federal crime. It's seems quite straightforward to me. Please give an even remotely plausible hypothetical of the Pope giving such an order. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
At 11:08 AM 11/13/2003 -0600 Dan Minette wrote: The news story reported the Catholic bishops discussing the dismantling of this agreement; with sanctions for Catholic public figures who follow it. These sanctions can include excommunication from the Catholic church. The real inaccuracy in the title was the use of the phrase to punish. An accurate statement would be are discussing punishing. The other real inaccuracy in the title was the idea that the Church's teaching on life come from the Pope. The Church teachings that all life is precious and sacred, and that no man has the right to declare some segment of life to be other from onesself, and therfore deny these self-proclaimed others the most basic of human rights. I'd argue that this teaching of love thy neighbor is 2000+ years old in the Catholic Church, and certainly doesn't come down from the Pope. If the punishment is a matter of not giving honorary degrees, I'm not too worried. Nor should anyone be. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
JDG wrote: Shocking development The Fool posts another article with a subject line that both insults and misleads as to the true contents of the article. The Fool replied: In what way is it misleading or even insulting? Either you didn't read the article you posted very carefully, or you're being as biased and misleading as you accuse Fox News Channel of being (and I think you're right on track about Fox News). Your subject heading says, Bishops to punish catholic politicians But to quote the first line of the article you posted: Frustrated that so many Catholic politicians support abortion rights, the bishops of the United States said yesterday they will begin evaluating whether they can impose sanctions against elected officials who vote contrary to church teachings. ...will begin evaluating means that it will be discussed and may or may not actually happen. Your subject line misleadingly implies that the decision to punish has already been made. There's a word for people who loudly complain about others being misleading while themselves being blatantly misleading: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=38743dict=CALD Reggie Bautista _ MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search... http://shopping.msn.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
Jon wrote: If an edict is passed by the Vatican Who said anything about the Vatican? The article says bishops of the United States, not the Vatican or the College of Cardinals or any other group from anywhere but the good ol' US of A. and a religious politician obeys that edict rather than uphold a freedom granted to his constituents by the Constitution, then that politician is comitting a Federal crime. It's seems quite straightforward to me. I would agree, if the US bishops who want to do this actually manage to get the other US bishops to agree (which I think is pretty unlikely), and if a politician or judge violated their constitutional or legal duties for fear of this retribution, then I would say yes, they should be prosecuted. But as I said, I don't think this will go through. There is a war going on right now within the Roman Catholic Church between those who think the reforms of Vatican II went too far or maybe even should be completely repealed and those who think that the reforms didn't go far enough. Right now there's a pretty close balance between those two extremist wings and the majority (swing voters, if you will) who are somewhere in the middle. JP II is definitely on the side of minimizing many of the reforms, as are typically the older, more conservative cardinals and bishops (leaving out priests and parishoners for now). I don't think the swing voters will let this one happen. At least, I certainly hope they don't, because that would lead to the marginalization of the RCC. Reggie Bautista _ From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
- Original Message - From: Reggie Bautista [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 7:30 PM Subject: Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope Jon wrote: If an edict is passed by the Vatican Who said anything about the Vatican? The article says bishops of the United States, not the Vatican or the College of Cardinals or any other group from anywhere but the good ol' US of A. and a religious politician obeys that edict rather than uphold a freedom granted to his constituents by the Constitution, then that politician is comitting a Federal crime. It's seems quite straightforward to me. I would agree, if the US bishops who want to do this actually manage to get the other US bishops to agree (which I think is pretty unlikely), and if a politician or judge violated their constitutional or legal duties for fear of this retribution, then I would say yes, they should be prosecuted. But as I said, I don't think this will go through. There is a war going on right now within the Roman Catholic Church between those who think the reforms of Vatican II went too far or maybe even should be completely repealed and those who think that the reforms didn't go far enough. That description is probably true if you are describing bishops, but not if you are describing average Catholics. If you look at surveys of Catholics on issues such as married priests, women priests, birth control, etc. you will find that most Catholics in the US dissent from the teachings of the church. Only 30% agree with the churches policy on married priests, 67% disagree; woman priests: 32% vs 64%; birth control 12% vs 88%. So, the vast majority of American Catholics want the reforms to go farther. From: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/vault/stories/data101503.html The balance only exists in the hierarchy. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: Cocoa Has More Antioxidants Than Red Wine, Tea
William T Goodall wrote: The UK equivalent of the Moon Pie is the Wagon Wheel (most popular with jam rather than original). That could be eaten with Irn Bru for maximum fat and sugar. http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/biscuits/previous.php3?item=64 Maybe it's just bad photos, but these look incredibly thin compared to a Moon Pie. The real question is, are they any good? :-) http://www.bevnet.com/reviews/irn-bru/index.asp Hmm... sounds a little like Mountain Dew Live Wire. Has anyone on this list had both Live Wire and Irn Bru? If so, how do they compare? Reggie Bautista Gustatorily Curious Maru _ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
I wrote: There is a war going on right now within the Roman Catholic Church between those who think the reforms of Vatican II went too far or maybe even should be completely repealed and those who think that the reforms didn't go far enough. Dan replied: That description is probably true if you are describing bishops, but not if you are describing average Catholics. If you look at surveys of Catholics on issues such as married priests, women priests, birth control, etc. you will find that most Catholics in the US dissent from the teachings of the church. Only 30% agree with the churches policy on married priests, 67% disagree; woman priests: 32% vs 64%; birth control 12% vs 88%. So, the vast majority of American Catholics want the reforms to go farther. From: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/vault/stories/data101503.html The balance only exists in the hierarchy. From my personal experience, that sounds accurate. However, I don't think that would hold true of Catholics in European countries. I don't have any numbers to back this up, only anecdotes, but it seems to me that American Catholics tend to be much more liberal as a group than European Catholics, which I find to be a fascinating reversal of the typical stereotype of Europeans as liberal and Americans as conservative outside of the Church. Reggie Bautista _ Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fox News, we distort, you comply.
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out of curiosity, who are the high profile liberal commentators on Fox? Dan M. Alan (I think) Colmes comes to mind, just off the top of my head. I, for one, don't think Fox is unbiased. I think it's about as biased as CNN or PBS - considerably less than NPR, though, to be honest. It's just in the opposite direction. The hysterical reaction to Fox, it seems to me, has more to do with the sudden shock of the leftist intelligentisia at finding that it doesn't monopolize American information any more. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, John D. Giorgis wrote: But anyhow, tiredness didn't actually play into my above post. I was alluding to the fact that two football commentators, Rush Limbaugh and Gregg Easterbrook, lost their jobs this year under accusations of using code words for racism and anti-Semitism, respectively. In at least the case of the former, many List Members agreed that use of code words was an appropriate reason for driving someone out of the public sphere of commentary. Given that The Fool was trotting out the old codewords for anti-Catholicism in this country, namely that Catholics are all in hock to orders of the Pope, it seemed like an apt anaology. Spelling things out for the sleep-deprived would be nice. :) Also, I can't remember some things from one week to the next. Thank you for the explanation. Julia at least Tommy has stopped screaming for now... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
- Original Message - From: Reggie Bautista [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 8:47 PM Subject: Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope I wrote: There is a war going on right now within the Roman Catholic Church between those who think the reforms of Vatican II went too far or maybe even should be completely repealed and those who think that the reforms didn't go far enough. Dan replied: That description is probably true if you are describing bishops, but not if you are describing average Catholics. If you look at surveys of Catholics on issues such as married priests, women priests, birth control, etc. you will find that most Catholics in the US dissent from the teachings of the church. Only 30% agree with the churches policy on married priests, 67% disagree; woman priests: 32% vs 64%; birth control 12% vs 88%. So, the vast majority of American Catholics want the reforms to go farther. From: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/vault/stories/data1015 03.html The balance only exists in the hierarchy. From my personal experience, that sounds accurate. However, I don't think that would hold true of Catholics in European countries. I don't have any numbers to back this up, only anecdotes, but it seems to me that American Catholics tend to be much more liberal as a group than European Catholics, which I find to be a fascinating reversal of the typical stereotype of Europeans as liberal and Americans as conservative outside of the Church. It might be that the relatively few in Europe that go to church are more conservative. My experience is that church attendance is not part of the woof and warf of life, as it is in the US. For example, a former pastor of mine talked about seeing mainly old ladies and children in the churches in Italy. That may be a bit of an overstatement, but from what I've seen European church attendance is less than half of what US church attendance is. As for South America, my uncle talked a lot about the relatively low attendance at his parish. I'm guessing slightly more than 1% went to church. Muy Catolico, pero no fanatico. Dan M. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Six Sigma
Can someone help me with a book or list of books to help me get a basic understanding of Six Sigma principles/implementation. I know it is not a quick read thing, although I would love Six Sigma for Dummies. I am hoping someone else has had to read up on this/got it in school, etc. Thanks for the help, Dee ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: religious/political question
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:40:57 +, Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ritu wrote: I have always found that a bit strange as India has the second largest muslim population in the world - only Indonesia has more muslims than India. India probably has the second largest in the world of everything: religious group, ethnic group, consumer of a product, any profession, fans of anything, etc :-) BTW, how many muslims are there in China? Why none, of coarse. It's communist. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Six Sigma
At 10:54 PM 11/13/03 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone help me with a book or list of books to help me get a basic understanding of Six Sigma principles/implementation. Have ye inquired of Google? Frex, I found this: To achieve Six Sigma quality, a process must produce no more than 3.4 defects per million opportunities. I Have Programmed On A Xerox Sigma Six System If That Is Any Help Maru -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Veterens Bushwhacked
http://www.misleader.org/daily_mislead/Read.asp?fn=df11102003.html President Bush's Stated Commitment to Veterans Not Reflected in Budget President Bush often emphasizes his commitment to veterans, saying in 2001, My administration understands America's obligations not only go to those who wear the uniform today, but to those who wore the uniform in the past: to our veterans.1 But the 200,000 veterans waiting six months or more for their first appointment at a VA facility would be denied access to VA health care under Bush's plan. Others would be charged $250 annual enrollment fees, doubled prescription costs and increased co-payments.2 The same day the President met with wounded soldiers and said that America should and must provide the best care for anybody who is willing to put their life in harm's way,3 the Veterans' Administration explained that it could solve the backlog problem by limiting enrollment. VA would avoid very significant additional medical benefits costs and begin to bring demand in line with capacity, which will reduce the number of veterans on wait lists.4 The administration would also reduce costs by denying access to better-off5 veterans - those who do not have service-related disabilities and with incomes as low as $21,050.6 Estimates suggest this would likely more than triple the number of veterans denied health care by FY 2005 to more than half a million7, and the VA anticipates that 55%8 of veterans who already participate in the VA health care plan, numbering 1.25 million, may be unable to continue participation due to the enrollment fee.9 Congress has called for $1.8 billion beyond what the administration requested for FY 2004 funding beyond the White House request.10 While funding for VA 2004 remains unresolved, Congress sought to include $1.3 billion in veterans' health care and extending reservists benefits who have been called up in the $87 billion emergency funding bill. The administration strongly opposed the provisions, articulated in a letter from White House Budget Director Joshua Bolten, which were later stripped.11 -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Reggie Bautista [EMAIL PROTECTED] But as I said, I don't think this will go through. There is a war going on right now within the Roman Catholic Church between those who think the reforms of Vatican II went too far or maybe even should be completely repealed and those who think that the reforms didn't go far enough. That description is probably true if you are describing bishops, but not if you are describing average Catholics. If you look at surveys of Catholics on issues such as married priests, women priests, birth control, etc. you will find that most Catholics in the US dissent from the teachings of the church. Only 30% agree with the churches policy on married priests, 67% disagree; woman priests: 32% vs 64%; birth control 12% vs 88%. So, the vast majority of American Catholics want the reforms to go farther. From: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/vault/stories/data101503.html The balance only exists in the hierarchy. I'm not sure that within the hierarchy you could call it a balance. My impression is that within the Church leadership, there are very few who hold the reformist views that the majority of American Catholics hold, or if they do, they are unable to admit it, as dissent is apparently not tolerated. I was disgusted to read this last month: http://andrewsullivan.com/index.php?dish_inc=archives/2003_10_12_dish_archive.html#106640638844162996 http://makeashorterlink.com/?J18942986 Nothing is going to change as long as we have the present pope, but from what I've heard, all of the favorites as his replacement are considered to also be of the conservative, hard-line persuasion as well. Dan, I'm surprised by your report about low church attendance in South America, as I keep hearing that another reason church reform is unlikely is because the church's greatest growth is in South America and Africa, where they don't share the US Catholic's more liberal views. And then there's McCloskey: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2003/11/02/the_crusaders/ (I think someone here (The Fool?) linked to this article recently, but I can't find it now) Summary quote from him: There's a name for Catholics who dissent from church teachings, he says. They're called Protestants. Blah. _ Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
