Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[John Beynon]

vista runs but not with any of the fancy Aero theme

On 7/14/06, Pete Ruckelshaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Man, I just wish there was a way to convert an existing MS OS installed on a
 server into an image...I've got a couple of servers running legacy apps that
 I'd love to free up and put to better use.

 Pete


 

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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Kev McCabe]

I believe the VMotion software only drops one ping request while it moves it
over,

We are about to release in production a large Virtual Farm, from what the IT
Guys have told me is that VMotion keeps a history of each machines usage and
say it loses some physical resources, and it need 512mb min memory to keep a
machine running it would look at say two other vm's and say well you only
need 512 and you have 768 I'll take 256 from you and another 256 from
another until it gets all its resources back. If it can't find the resources
it will shut down a less priority machine to give the resources to high
priority apps.

All sounds good in theory but I don't think we will be placing too many high
profile apps on it till it's a least been running for a year or so.

Cheers

BK


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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Snake]

It does what it says on the tin.
 

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 14 July 2006 12:56
To: CF-Talk
Subject: OT: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

So I get this email that MS has released Virtual PC for free.

Not having used Virtual PC or anything like it, I have to ask.are any of you
using Virtual PC or something similar in you CF work?

Other ways?  Should I bother?

Rick





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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Bobby Hartsfield]

I'm sure Microsoft's recent change of heart has something to do with a free
version of vmware.

They are great ways to test the impact of software updates and try things
without causing any damage to your main installation though.

..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Bobby Hartsfield
http://acoderslife.com

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:56 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: OT: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

So I get this email that MS has released Virtual PC for free.

Not having used Virtual PC or anything like it, I have to ask.are
any of you using Virtual PC or something similar in you CF work?

Other ways?  Should I bother?

Rick





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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Tom Chiverton]

On Friday 14 July 2006 13:45, Bobby Hartsfield wrote:
 I'm sure Microsoft's recent change of heart has something to do with a free
 version of vmware.

coughanti-trust/cough

-- 
Tom Chiverton



This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.

Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and 
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James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is available 
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to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law 
Society.

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Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008.

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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Ken Ferguson]

...free version of VMWare.

Which is absolutely incredible. I've been playing with the free VMWare 
player and server for the last few days and, DAMN! That is freakin' cool!!!

http://www.vmware.com/products/free_virtualization.html

*
Ken Ferguson
214.636.6126
*






Bobby Hartsfield wrote:
 I'm sure Microsoft's recent change of heart has something to do with a free
 version of vmware.

 They are great ways to test the impact of software updates and try things
 without causing any damage to your main installation though.

 ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
 Bobby Hartsfield
 http://acoderslife.com

  

  

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:56 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: OT: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 So I get this email that MS has released Virtual PC for free.

 Not having used Virtual PC or anything like it, I have to ask.are
 any of you using Virtual PC or something similar in you CF work?

 Other ways?  Should I bother?

 Rick





 

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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Jim Davis]

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:56 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: OT: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?
 
 So I get this email that MS has released Virtual PC for free.
 
 Not having used Virtual PC or anything like it, I have to ask.are
 any of you using Virtual PC or something similar in you CF work?

Yup... both server and standard.

My home development box is a VPC Server host: one big box, lots of little
(virtual) servers.

Until I got him a dedicated box I also used VPC in a lifesaving application:
to run a dedicated Windows 98 instance to install all the crappy games that
my toddler son demanded.  It saved my ass when Thomas and the Magic
Annoying Choo-Choo decided it NEEDED to run at 256 colors at 640x480 and
uninstalled DirectX to do it.

For business use I've got a large collection of VPCs: all versions of
Windows, several Linux distros and some oddballs (BeOS... just for kicks).
I've also got a VPC with a second Windows XP license just to install my work
software and keep it from infecting my actual PC (Lotus Notes, DB2 Client,
etc).  VPCs are good network citizens and I can happily VPN to the office
from with in the VPC.

All that said I've found no significant differences between VPC and VMWare:
they both do exactly what they say they're going to do and both do it
exceedingly well.

What I really want is for one of them to allow OS X as a guest OS...

Jim Davis


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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Rick Faircloth]

I guess what you're saying as far as software updates/patches is to perhaps
setup two virtual OS's of the same OS and run updates/patches on one first,
and, if they work well, then bring up the other and apply...if not, roll
back?

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 8:46 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

I'm sure Microsoft's recent change of heart has something to do with a free
version of vmware.

They are great ways to test the impact of software updates and try things
without causing any damage to your main installation though.

...:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Bobby Hartsfield
http://acoderslife.com

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:56 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: OT: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

So I get this email that MS has released Virtual PC for free.

Not having used Virtual PC or anything like it, I have to ask.are any of you
using Virtual PC or something similar in you CF work?

Other ways?  Should I bother?

Rick







~|
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Rick Faircloth]

Ken, have you used MS's Virtual PC?  I have no experience with either,
so would be interested in how they compare for ease-of-use...

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Ken Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:34 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

...free version of VMWare.

Which is absolutely incredible. I've been playing with the free VMWare
player and server for the last few days and, DAMN! That is freakin' cool!!!

http://www.vmware.com/products/free_virtualization.html

*
Ken Ferguson
214.636.6126
*






Bobby Hartsfield wrote:
 I'm sure Microsoft's recent change of heart has something to do with a 
 free version of vmware.

 They are great ways to test the impact of software updates and try 
 things without causing any damage to your main installation though.

 ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
 Bobby Hartsfield
 http://acoderslife.com

  

  

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:56 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: OT: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 So I get this email that MS has released Virtual PC for free.

 Not having used Virtual PC or anything like it, I have to ask.are any 
 of you using Virtual PC or something similar in you CF work?

 Other ways?  Should I bother?

 Rick





 



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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Rick Faircloth]

So...how much hardware, especially CPU and memory to run all
the OS's at once?  Are the system resources just taken up by Windows
as the host and one other OS at a time for a Virtual OS?

It's my understanding that the Windows would be always working as
the host OS and then I would need to allow for extra memory, etc, for
a Virtual OS that I might initialize.

Sound right?


-Original Message-
From: Jim Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:54 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:56 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: OT: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?
 
 So I get this email that MS has released Virtual PC for free.
 
 Not having used Virtual PC or anything like it, I have to ask.are any 
 of you using Virtual PC or something similar in you CF work?

Yup... both server and standard.

My home development box is a VPC Server host: one big box, lots of little
(virtual) servers.

Until I got him a dedicated box I also used VPC in a lifesaving application:
to run a dedicated Windows 98 instance to install all the crappy games that
my toddler son demanded.  It saved my ass when Thomas and the Magic
Annoying Choo-Choo decided it NEEDED to run at 256 colors at 640x480 and
uninstalled DirectX to do it.

For business use I've got a large collection of VPCs: all versions of
Windows, several Linux distros and some oddballs (BeOS... just for kicks).
I've also got a VPC with a second Windows XP license just to install my work
software and keep it from infecting my actual PC (Lotus Notes, DB2 Client,
etc).  VPCs are good network citizens and I can happily VPN to the office
from with in the VPC.

All that said I've found no significant differences between VPC and VMWare:
they both do exactly what they say they're going to do and both do it
exceedingly well.

What I really want is for one of them to allow OS X as a guest OS...

Jim Davis




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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Tom Chiverton]

On Friday 14 July 2006 15:19, Rick Faircloth wrote:
 It's my understanding that the Windows would be always working as
 the host OS and then I would need to allow for extra memory, etc, for
 a Virtual OS that I might initialize.

 Sound right?

Yup.
You need whatever resources your host O/S and applications need, plus whatever 
the guest (virtual) O/S needs.

So, in todays terms, at least a gig of ram (512 each) (more better) and as 
much disk and Ghz as you can afford.

-- 
Tom Chiverton



This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.

Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and 
Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St 
James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is available 
for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation 
to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law 
Society.

CONFIDENTIALITY

This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be 
confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not 
read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform 
any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or 
contents.  If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify 
Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008.

For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.


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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Burns, John D]

I have kind of a stupid question. Are people using these VM servers for
production use? I've heard of people buying one top of the line piece of
hardware and run multiple production servers on it using VM. This just
scares me because it seems like one more point of possible failure,
possible performance losses, etc. Am I just being antsy of a new thing
or is this really not a good practice for production? I can definitely
see the value in development environments but I'm not sure about
production. Do the VMs have much overhead to them? Are there security
and/or performance concerns that need to be taken into consideration?
Obviously there's the don't put all your eggs in one basket thing with
the hardware but if proper precautions are taken for redundancy and such
is it really a viable solution? Also, how would all of this work when
you get into clustering and such? Would you cluster each VM to the other
VMs and then leave the base OS that all the VMs are running on alone and
not cluster/replicate them? Any experience or knowledge you can lend
would be awesome.

John Burns

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 10:14 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

Ken, have you used MS's Virtual PC?  I have no experience with either,
so would be interested in how they compare for ease-of-use...

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Ken Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:34 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

...free version of VMWare.

Which is absolutely incredible. I've been playing with the free VMWare
player and server for the last few days and, DAMN! That is freakin'
cool!!!

http://www.vmware.com/products/free_virtualization.html

*
Ken Ferguson
214.636.6126
*






Bobby Hartsfield wrote:
 I'm sure Microsoft's recent change of heart has something to do with a

 free version of vmware.

 They are great ways to test the impact of software updates and try 
 things without causing any damage to your main installation though.

 ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
 Bobby Hartsfield
 http://acoderslife.com

  

  

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:56 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: OT: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 So I get this email that MS has released Virtual PC for free.

 Not having used Virtual PC or anything like it, I have to ask.are any 
 of you using Virtual PC or something similar in you CF work?

 Other ways?  Should I bother?

 Rick





 





~|
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up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Robert Everland III]

I could see people using VM Servers in a production enviroment, mostly because 
you now have a hardware agnostic OS and software install. So while you see 1 
point of failure, someone else sees a way to easily move their production 
server to new hardware if their old hardware fails. Even if you only run one 
server on the VM server you could still get the benefit of the hardware 
agnostic OS.

Each VM or Microsoft Virtual Server run as though it were a machine on the OS. 
So you wouldn't need to cluster the VM, you can run clustering as though they 
were different machines. I don't know if there is a clustering options for the 
VMWare or Microsoft, not sure if it's even needed.



Bob

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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Rick Faircloth]

Thanks, Tom!

It's good to verify what MS says on their site by someone with
some field experience, rather than just relying on what the tin
states, right Snake?

Rick



-Original Message-
From: Tom Chiverton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 10:31 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

On Friday 14 July 2006 15:19, Rick Faircloth wrote:
 It's my understanding that the Windows would be always working as the 
 host OS and then I would need to allow for extra memory, etc, for a 
 Virtual OS that I might initialize.

 Sound right?

Yup.
You need whatever resources your host O/S and applications need, plus
whatever the guest (virtual) O/S needs.

So, in todays terms, at least a gig of ram (512 each) (more better) and as
much disk and Ghz as you can afford.

--
Tom Chiverton



This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.

Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and
Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at
St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is
available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a
partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.
Regulated by the Law Society.

CONFIDENTIALITY

This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may
be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you
must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it
nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its
existence or contents.  If you have received this email in error please
delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008.

For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.




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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Tom Chiverton]

On Friday 14 July 2006 15:35, Burns, John D wrote:
 hardware and run multiple production servers on it using VM. This just
 scares me because it seems like one more point of possible failure,

It's a valid point.
I think of it this way: If I was running X servers, I'd need 2*X bits of 
hardware to be redundant. With VM, I need 2 (beefy) servers.

-- 
Tom Chiverton



This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.

Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and 
Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St 
James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is available 
for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation 
to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law 
Society.

CONFIDENTIALITY

This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be 
confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not 
read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform 
any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or 
contents.  If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify 
Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008.

For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.


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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Rick Faircloth]

Not quite sure what you mean by hardware agnostic OS and
software...wouldn't
each OS have to be just as aware of the hardware it's running on and the
software
running on it?

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Robert Everland III [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 10:43 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

I could see people using VM Servers in a production enviroment, mostly
because you now have a hardware agnostic OS and software install. So while
you see 1 point of failure, someone else sees a way to easily move their
production server to new hardware if their old hardware fails. Even if you
only run one server on the VM server you could still get the benefit of the
hardware agnostic OS.

Each VM or Microsoft Virtual Server run as though it were a machine on the
OS. So you wouldn't need to cluster the VM, you can run clustering as though
they were different machines. I don't know if there is a clustering options
for the VMWare or Microsoft, not sure if it's even needed.



Bob



~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Ken Ferguson]

I have only used VirtualPC for mac, to run Windows on my mac at home. I 
hate to do it, but that aside, it works very well indeed and sometimes 
you still just have to run Windows.

*
Ken Ferguson
214.636.6126
*






Rick Faircloth wrote:
 Ken, have you used MS's Virtual PC?  I have no experience with either,
 so would be interested in how they compare for ease-of-use...

 Rick


 -Original Message-
 From: Ken Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:34 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 ...free version of VMWare.

 Which is absolutely incredible. I've been playing with the free VMWare
 player and server for the last few days and, DAMN! That is freakin' cool!!!

 http://www.vmware.com/products/free_virtualization.html

 *
 Ken Ferguson
 214.636.6126
 *






 Bobby Hartsfield wrote:
   
 I'm sure Microsoft's recent change of heart has something to do with a 
 free version of vmware.

 They are great ways to test the impact of software updates and try 
 things without causing any damage to your main installation though.

 ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
 Bobby Hartsfield
 http://acoderslife.com

  

  

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:56 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: OT: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 So I get this email that MS has released Virtual PC for free.

 Not having used Virtual PC or anything like it, I have to ask.are any 
 of you using Virtual PC or something similar in you CF work?

 Other ways?  Should I bother?

 Rick






 



 

~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly

Archive: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/message.cfm/forumid:4/messageid:246558
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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Ken Ferguson]

With VMWare's VMotion, you can move an instance of a Windows server from 
one physical machine to another without anybody having any clue that you 
did it! That is the definition of cool.
http://www.vmware.com/products/vi/vc/vmotion.html

*
Ken Ferguson
214.636.6126
*






Burns, John D wrote:
 I have kind of a stupid question. Are people using these VM servers for
 production use? I've heard of people buying one top of the line piece of
 hardware and run multiple production servers on it using VM. This just
 scares me because it seems like one more point of possible failure,
 possible performance losses, etc. Am I just being antsy of a new thing
 or is this really not a good practice for production? I can definitely
 see the value in development environments but I'm not sure about
 production. Do the VMs have much overhead to them? Are there security
 and/or performance concerns that need to be taken into consideration?
 Obviously there's the don't put all your eggs in one basket thing with
 the hardware but if proper precautions are taken for redundancy and such
 is it really a viable solution? Also, how would all of this work when
 you get into clustering and such? Would you cluster each VM to the other
 VMs and then leave the base OS that all the VMs are running on alone and
 not cluster/replicate them? Any experience or knowledge you can lend
 would be awesome.

 John Burns

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 10:14 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 Ken, have you used MS's Virtual PC?  I have no experience with either,
 so would be interested in how they compare for ease-of-use...

 Rick


 -Original Message-
 From: Ken Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:34 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 ...free version of VMWare.

 Which is absolutely incredible. I've been playing with the free VMWare
 player and server for the last few days and, DAMN! That is freakin'
 cool!!!

 http://www.vmware.com/products/free_virtualization.html

 *
 Ken Ferguson
 214.636.6126
 *






 Bobby Hartsfield wrote:
   
 I'm sure Microsoft's recent change of heart has something to do with a
 

   
 free version of vmware.

 They are great ways to test the impact of software updates and try 
 things without causing any damage to your main installation though.

 ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
 Bobby Hartsfield
 http://acoderslife.com

  

  

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:56 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: OT: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 So I get this email that MS has released Virtual PC for free.

 Not having used Virtual PC or anything like it, I have to ask.are any 
 of you using Virtual PC or something similar in you CF work?

 Other ways?  Should I bother?

 Rick






 





 

~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly

Archive: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/message.cfm/forumid:4/messageid:246559
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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Tom Chiverton]

On Friday 14 July 2006 15:42, Rick Faircloth wrote:
 It's good to verify what MS says on their site by someone with
 some field experience, rather than just relying on what the tin
 states, right Snake?

Pft, we use VMWare here :-)

-- 
Tom Chiverton



This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.

Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and 
Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St 
James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is available 
for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation 
to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law 
Society.

CONFIDENTIALITY

This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be 
confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not 
read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform 
any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or 
contents.  If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify 
Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008.

For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.


~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly

Archive: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/message.cfm/forumid:4/messageid:246560
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Rick Faircloth]

Apparently, VMotion is not free, even with the Starter edition of VMWare.

I couldn't find a price for VMotion as an add-on to the Starter edition of
VMWare...
any idea how much it is?

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Ken Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:10 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

With VMWare's VMotion, you can move an instance of a Windows server from one
physical machine to another without anybody having any clue that you did it!
That is the definition of cool.
http://www.vmware.com/products/vi/vc/vmotion.html

*
Ken Ferguson
214.636.6126
*






Burns, John D wrote:
 I have kind of a stupid question. Are people using these VM servers 
 for production use? I've heard of people buying one top of the line 
 piece of hardware and run multiple production servers on it using VM. 
 This just scares me because it seems like one more point of possible 
 failure, possible performance losses, etc. Am I just being antsy of a 
 new thing or is this really not a good practice for production? I can 
 definitely see the value in development environments but I'm not sure 
 about production. Do the VMs have much overhead to them? Are there 
 security and/or performance concerns that need to be taken into
consideration?
 Obviously there's the don't put all your eggs in one basket thing 
 with the hardware but if proper precautions are taken for redundancy 
 and such is it really a viable solution? Also, how would all of this 
 work when you get into clustering and such? Would you cluster each VM 
 to the other VMs and then leave the base OS that all the VMs are 
 running on alone and not cluster/replicate them? Any experience or 
 knowledge you can lend would be awesome.

 John Burns

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 10:14 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 Ken, have you used MS's Virtual PC?  I have no experience with either, 
 so would be interested in how they compare for ease-of-use...

 Rick


 -Original Message-
 From: Ken Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:34 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 ...free version of VMWare.

 Which is absolutely incredible. I've been playing with the free VMWare 
 player and server for the last few days and, DAMN! That is freakin'
 cool!!!

 http://www.vmware.com/products/free_virtualization.html

 *
 Ken Ferguson
 214.636.6126
 *






 Bobby Hartsfield wrote:
   
 I'm sure Microsoft's recent change of heart has something to do with 
 a
 

   
 free version of vmware.

 They are great ways to test the impact of software updates and try 
 things without causing any damage to your main installation though.

 ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
 Bobby Hartsfield
 http://acoderslife.com

  

  

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:56 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: OT: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 So I get this email that MS has released Virtual PC for free.

 Not having used Virtual PC or anything like it, I have to ask.are any 
 of you using Virtual PC or something similar in you CF work?

 Other ways?  Should I bother?

 Rick






 





 



~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly

Archive: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/message.cfm/forumid:4/messageid:246563
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Rick Faircloth]

This sounds like the ultimate system cloning tool!  It clones a system
and all settings, state, etc, without any downtime.  I see a migration
can be scheduled and executed unattended, too...that's great.

Does the original OS on the original hardware remain intact and
operating as a migration takes place?

I could see running a migration to an identical server each night or even
multiple times per day as a backup system for an entire server.

Is the entire OS, all files and databases, migrated as well or would
they have to point to a third server which remains intact for data access?

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Ken Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:10 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

With VMWare's VMotion, you can move an instance of a Windows server from one
physical machine to another without anybody having any clue that you did it!
That is the definition of cool.
http://www.vmware.com/products/vi/vc/vmotion.html

*
Ken Ferguson
214.636.6126
*






Burns, John D wrote:
 I have kind of a stupid question. Are people using these VM servers 
 for production use? I've heard of people buying one top of the line 
 piece of hardware and run multiple production servers on it using VM. 
 This just scares me because it seems like one more point of possible 
 failure, possible performance losses, etc. Am I just being antsy of a 
 new thing or is this really not a good practice for production? I can 
 definitely see the value in development environments but I'm not sure 
 about production. Do the VMs have much overhead to them? Are there 
 security and/or performance concerns that need to be taken into
consideration?
 Obviously there's the don't put all your eggs in one basket thing 
 with the hardware but if proper precautions are taken for redundancy 
 and such is it really a viable solution? Also, how would all of this 
 work when you get into clustering and such? Would you cluster each VM 
 to the other VMs and then leave the base OS that all the VMs are 
 running on alone and not cluster/replicate them? Any experience or 
 knowledge you can lend would be awesome.

 John Burns

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 10:14 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 Ken, have you used MS's Virtual PC?  I have no experience with either, 
 so would be interested in how they compare for ease-of-use...

 Rick


 -Original Message-
 From: Ken Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:34 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 ...free version of VMWare.

 Which is absolutely incredible. I've been playing with the free VMWare 
 player and server for the last few days and, DAMN! That is freakin'
 cool!!!

 http://www.vmware.com/products/free_virtualization.html

 *
 Ken Ferguson
 214.636.6126
 *






 Bobby Hartsfield wrote:
   
 I'm sure Microsoft's recent change of heart has something to do with 
 a
 

   
 free version of vmware.

 They are great ways to test the impact of software updates and try 
 things without causing any damage to your main installation though.

 ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
 Bobby Hartsfield
 http://acoderslife.com

  

  

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:56 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: OT: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 So I get this email that MS has released Virtual PC for free.

 Not having used Virtual PC or anything like it, I have to ask.are any 
 of you using Virtual PC or something similar in you CF work?

 Other ways?  Should I bother?

 Rick






 





 



~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly

Archive: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/message.cfm/forumid:4/messageid:246564
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Rick Faircloth]

I see that only the Starter edition is free...how does that compare
to MS's free (full?) version?

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Tom Chiverton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 10:58 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

On Friday 14 July 2006 15:42, Rick Faircloth wrote:
 It's good to verify what MS says on their site by someone with some 
 field experience, rather than just relying on what the tin
 states, right Snake?

Pft, we use VMWare here :-)

--
Tom Chiverton



This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.

Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and
Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at
St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is
available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a
partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.
Regulated by the Law Society.

CONFIDENTIALITY

This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may
be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you
must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it
nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its
existence or contents.  If you have received this email in error please
delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008.

For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.




~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly

Archive: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/message.cfm/forumid:4/messageid:246565
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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Tom Chiverton]

On Friday 14 July 2006 16:20, Rick Faircloth wrote:
 I see that only the Starter edition is free...how does that compare

It lets you run any number of virtual servers on a box. That's good enough for 
me !
You can back up by shutting down the VM, and copy the disk image, for 
instance.

-- 
Tom Chiverton



This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.

Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and 
Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St 
James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is available 
for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation 
to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law 
Society.

CONFIDENTIALITY

This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be 
confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you must not 
read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform 
any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or 
contents.  If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify 
Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008.

For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.


~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly

Archive: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/message.cfm/forumid:4/messageid:246567
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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Robert Everland III]

Not quite sure what you mean by hardware agnostic OS and
software...wouldn't
each OS have to be just as aware of the hardware it's running on and the
software
running on it?

Rick

VMWare and Microsoft emulate hardware to the OS. So no matter what kind of 
machine you're on, to the OS it's the exact same machine. So if you need to 
move your server instance to a beefer server that is running VMWare or 
Microsoft, then nothing will change. You wouldn't have issues with drivers, 
none of your software you installed that rely on hardware will have issues. It 
will just work. That's one of the beauties of virtulization.



Bob

~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly

Archive: 
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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Ken Ferguson]

There's a pricing pdf here: 
http://www.vmware.com/products/vi/vc/vmotion.html#_tabbuy

Infrastructure 3 Enterprise, which is $5,750 includes VMotion

Other than that, I don't know how much it costs to add it to standard or 
starter

*
Ken Ferguson
214.636.6126
*






Rick Faircloth wrote:
 Apparently, VMotion is not free, even with the Starter edition of VMWare.

 I couldn't find a price for VMotion as an add-on to the Starter edition of
 VMWare...
 any idea how much it is?

 Rick


 -Original Message-
 From: Ken Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:10 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 With VMWare's VMotion, you can move an instance of a Windows server from one
 physical machine to another without anybody having any clue that you did it!
 That is the definition of cool.
 http://www.vmware.com/products/vi/vc/vmotion.html

 *
 Ken Ferguson
 214.636.6126
 *






 Burns, John D wrote:
   
 I have kind of a stupid question. Are people using these VM servers 
 for production use? I've heard of people buying one top of the line 
 piece of hardware and run multiple production servers on it using VM. 
 This just scares me because it seems like one more point of possible 
 failure, possible performance losses, etc. Am I just being antsy of a 
 new thing or is this really not a good practice for production? I can 
 definitely see the value in development environments but I'm not sure 
 about production. Do the VMs have much overhead to them? Are there 
 security and/or performance concerns that need to be taken into
 
 consideration?
   
 Obviously there's the don't put all your eggs in one basket thing 
 with the hardware but if proper precautions are taken for redundancy 
 and such is it really a viable solution? Also, how would all of this 
 work when you get into clustering and such? Would you cluster each VM 
 to the other VMs and then leave the base OS that all the VMs are 
 running on alone and not cluster/replicate them? Any experience or 
 knowledge you can lend would be awesome.

 John Burns

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 10:14 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 Ken, have you used MS's Virtual PC?  I have no experience with either, 
 so would be interested in how they compare for ease-of-use...

 Rick


 -Original Message-
 From: Ken Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:34 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 ...free version of VMWare.

 Which is absolutely incredible. I've been playing with the free VMWare 
 player and server for the last few days and, DAMN! That is freakin'
 cool!!!

 http://www.vmware.com/products/free_virtualization.html

 *
 Ken Ferguson
 214.636.6126
 *






 Bobby Hartsfield wrote:
   
 
 I'm sure Microsoft's recent change of heart has something to do with 
 a
 
   
   
 
 free version of vmware.

 They are great ways to test the impact of software updates and try 
 things without causing any damage to your main installation though.

 ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
 Bobby Hartsfield
 http://acoderslife.com

  

  

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:56 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: OT: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 So I get this email that MS has released Virtual PC for free.

 Not having used Virtual PC or anything like it, I have to ask.are any 
 of you using Virtual PC or something similar in you CF work?

 Other ways?  Should I bother?

 Rick






 
   




 



 

~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly

Archive: 
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/message.cfm/forumid:4/messageid:246572
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Eric A. Haskins]

I do know we are looking at doing this very soon. One great point is the
fact you can have snapshots of servers when you make a change or upgrade
a VM instance you can easily go back to a copy of the old instance. Not
to mention with Vmotion you can fail over to another VM or even Motion
an instance to another server if the server has problems.

A great tool!! Cant wait to have it up and running!!

Eric

-Original Message-
From: Robert Everland III [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 10:43 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

I could see people using VM Servers in a production enviroment, mostly
because you now have a hardware agnostic OS and software install. So
while you see 1 point of failure, someone else sees a way to easily move
their production server to new hardware if their old hardware fails.
Even if you only run one server on the VM server you could still get the
benefit of the hardware agnostic OS.

Each VM or Microsoft Virtual Server run as though it were a machine on
the OS. So you wouldn't need to cluster the VM, you can run clustering
as though they were different machines. I don't know if there is a
clustering options for the VMWare or Microsoft, not sure if it's even
needed.



Bob


~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly

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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Russ]

One thing that sucks at least I guess without the proper hardware is that
it's slow. I know with Xeon's or some higher end processors you're
supposed to get some improvements, but on a regular P4, it's pretty slow...
There are other free virtualization options that are supposed to be better,
such as Xen, and Virtuozzo, and although I believe they are strictly for
Linux, they're supposed to provide minimal overhead. 

Russ

 -Original Message-
 From: Robert Everland III [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:52 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?
 
 Not quite sure what you mean by hardware agnostic OS and
 software...wouldn't
 each OS have to be just as aware of the hardware it's running on and the
 software
 running on it?
 
 Rick
 
 VMWare and Microsoft emulate hardware to the OS. So no matter what kind of
 machine you're on, to the OS it's the exact same machine. So if you need
 to move your server instance to a beefer server that is running VMWare or
 Microsoft, then nothing will change. You wouldn't have issues with
 drivers, none of your software you installed that rely on hardware will
 have issues. It will just work. That's one of the beauties of
 virtulization.
 
 
 
 Bob
 
 

~|
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Rick Faircloth]

Any idea if VMotion can be added to the free VMWare Standard Edition,
and, if so, for how much?

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Eric A. Haskins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:55 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

I do know we are looking at doing this very soon. One great point is the
fact you can have snapshots of servers when you make a change or upgrade a
VM instance you can easily go back to a copy of the old instance. Not to
mention with Vmotion you can fail over to another VM or even Motion an
instance to another server if the server has problems.

A great tool!! Cant wait to have it up and running!!

Eric

-Original Message-
From: Robert Everland III [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 10:43 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

I could see people using VM Servers in a production enviroment, mostly
because you now have a hardware agnostic OS and software install. So while
you see 1 point of failure, someone else sees a way to easily move their
production server to new hardware if their old hardware fails.
Even if you only run one server on the VM server you could still get the
benefit of the hardware agnostic OS.

Each VM or Microsoft Virtual Server run as though it were a machine on the
OS. So you wouldn't need to cluster the VM, you can run clustering as though
they were different machines. I don't know if there is a clustering options
for the VMWare or Microsoft, not sure if it's even needed.



Bob




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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Robert Everland III]

I hear VMWare is very fast because they have a very slim version of Linux 
running. It's fast not because it's Linux, but because they took out every bell 
and whistle that they could and make it so it only ran what was needed to run 
virtualization. Microsoft on the other hand has the full bloat of running 
Windows Server. YMMV. 



Bob

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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Russ]

I think you're talking about VMware ESX which is the non-free version of
their server, and yes it would be faster then running VMware or Virtual PC
on top of windows.  But it's still slower then running Xen or Virtuozzo, I
believe, but it will support Windows as well as Linux.  

Russ

 -Original Message-
 From: Robert Everland III [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:09 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?
 
 I hear VMWare is very fast because they have a very slim version of Linux
 running. It's fast not because it's Linux, but because they took out every
 bell and whistle that they could and make it so it only ran what was
 needed to run virtualization. Microsoft on the other hand has the full
 bloat of running Windows Server. YMMV.
 
 
 
 Bob
 
 

~|
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Burns, John D]

What about licensing? Are OS licenses based solely on physical
processors and such or would you need a separate license for each
instance of the OS that you have installed on the server?

John

-Original Message-
From: Robert Everland III [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:52 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

Not quite sure what you mean by hardware agnostic OS and
software...wouldn't
each OS have to be just as aware of the hardware it's running on and
the
software
running on it?

Rick

VMWare and Microsoft emulate hardware to the OS. So no matter what kind
of machine you're on, to the OS it's the exact same machine. So if you
need to move your server instance to a beefer server that is running
VMWare or Microsoft, then nothing will change. You wouldn't have issues
with drivers, none of your software you installed that rely on hardware
will have issues. It will just work. That's one of the beauties of
virtulization.



Bob



~|
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Russ]

I believe you need a separate license for each OS (although most linux
version are free).  CF seems to be based on physical processors, so you can
run as many of them as you want on one physical machine, no matter how many
virtual processors you have. 

Russ

 -Original Message-
 From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:51 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?
 
 What about licensing? Are OS licenses based solely on physical
 processors and such or would you need a separate license for each
 instance of the OS that you have installed on the server?
 
 John
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Robert Everland III [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:52 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?
 
 Not quite sure what you mean by hardware agnostic OS and
 software...wouldn't
 each OS have to be just as aware of the hardware it's running on and
 the
 software
 running on it?
 
 Rick
 
 VMWare and Microsoft emulate hardware to the OS. So no matter what kind
 of machine you're on, to the OS it's the exact same machine. So if you
 need to move your server instance to a beefer server that is running
 VMWare or Microsoft, then nothing will change. You wouldn't have issues
 with drivers, none of your software you installed that rely on hardware
 will have issues. It will just work. That's one of the beauties of
 virtulization.
 
 
 
 Bob
 
 
 
 

~|
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up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Dave Watts]

 What about licensing? Are OS licenses based solely on 
 physical processors and such or would you need a separate 
 license for each instance of the OS that you have installed 
 on the server?

For MS Virtual Server, Windows guest OS licensing has recently been changed
so that you don't need one license per VM. I don't know the details, but
read it briefly in this month's Windows IT Pro magazine, so you should be
able to find out pretty easily. For other virtualization products like
VMware, I doubt that MS gives you a break.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!


~|
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Dave Watts]

 I hear VMWare is very fast because they have a very slim 
 version of Linux running. It's fast not because it's Linux, 
 but because they took out every bell and whistle that they 
 could and make it so it only ran what was needed to run 
 virtualization. Microsoft on the other hand has the full 
 bloat of running Windows Server. YMMV.

VMware ESX provides its own OS, which is a streamlined, customized Linux.
VMware Server, previously called VMware GSX, can be installed on Windows or
Linux, but typically has a 30% increase in overhead compared to ESX. On the
other hand, ESX is relatively expensive, and VMware Server and MS Virtual
Server are free.

The big advantages of ESX aren't just that it runs faster, but that it
supports the VMware Infrastructure functionality - you can run ESX guests
from SANs, you can move them from one ESX server to another without any
downtime, etc. This kind of functionality is unparalleled by any other
virtualization solution on the market today.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!


~|
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up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Rick Faircloth]

I guess, since I started this thread, I'll throw out another
consideration...

I just found out that MS Virtual Server 2005 R2 is free.  It's my
understanding
that two identical setups can be run with Virtual Server and it will provide
clustering support for Virtual Servers.

That would be of much more interest than just Virtual PC for CF production
servers.

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:51 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

What about licensing? Are OS licenses based solely on physical processors
and such or would you need a separate license for each instance of the OS
that you have installed on the server?

John

-Original Message-
From: Robert Everland III [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:52 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

Not quite sure what you mean by hardware agnostic OS and 
software...wouldn't each OS have to be just as aware of the hardware 
it's running on and
the
software
running on it?

Rick

VMWare and Microsoft emulate hardware to the OS. So no matter what kind of
machine you're on, to the OS it's the exact same machine. So if you need to
move your server instance to a beefer server that is running VMWare or
Microsoft, then nothing will change. You wouldn't have issues with drivers,
none of your software you installed that rely on hardware will have issues.
It will just work. That's one of the beauties of virtulization.



Bob





~|
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up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Rick Faircloth]

Wellmaybe, maybe not...Virtual Server 2005 R2 only supports
Windows Server OS's and Windows Server System applications...

But...the MS site does say that MS supports *only* Win Server OS's
and applications...it doesn't say it won't run Linux, Apache, etc...

Anyone have any experience with this?

I wouldn't mind setting up a couple of clustered Windows Virtual
Servers, and a Linux/Apache setup on a server...

Rick




-Original Message-
From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:51 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

What about licensing? Are OS licenses based solely on physical processors
and such or would you need a separate license for each instance of the OS
that you have installed on the server?

John

-Original Message-
From: Robert Everland III [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:52 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

Not quite sure what you mean by hardware agnostic OS and 
software...wouldn't each OS have to be just as aware of the hardware 
it's running on and
the
software
running on it?

Rick

VMWare and Microsoft emulate hardware to the OS. So no matter what kind of
machine you're on, to the OS it's the exact same machine. So if you need to
move your server instance to a beefer server that is running VMWare or
Microsoft, then nothing will change. You wouldn't have issues with drivers,
none of your software you installed that rely on hardware will have issues.
It will just work. That's one of the beauties of virtulization.



Bob





~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Dave Watts]

 Any idea if VMotion can be added to the free VMWare Standard 
 Edition, and, if so, for how much?

VMotion requires ESX, to the best of my knowledge.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!


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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Dave Watts]

 I see that only the Starter edition is free...how does that 
 compare to MS's free (full?) version?

VMware Server is roughly equivalent to MS Virtual Server. Both run on an
existing OS, but VMware Server is available for Linux, and probably provides
better support for non-Windows guest OSs.

One other interesting feature with VMware Server is the availability of
appliances - pre-built VMs for various uses. For example, let's say you
want a dedicated spam filter VM. You just download it, and start it up.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

~|
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Eric A. Haskins]

Any idea if VMotion can be added to the free VMWare Standard Edition,
and, if so, for how much?

Rick

VMotion is an ESX only product. Standard can move VMs between servers if
you power them down first.

Eric

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:08 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

Any idea if VMotion can be added to the free VMWare Standard Edition,
and, if so, for how much?

Rick




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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)]

So, 

What are the steps to setup a VM image/session?

N







This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Oriel House, 26 The Quadrant,
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-Original Message-
From: Eric A. Haskins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Fri Jul 14 18:26:15 2006
Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

Any idea if VMotion can be added to the free VMWare Standard Edition,
and, if so, for how much?

Rick

VMotion is an ESX only product. Standard can move VMs between servers if
you power them down first.

Eric

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:08 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

Any idea if VMotion can be added to the free VMWare Standard Edition,
and, if so, for how much?

Rick






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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Rick Faircloth]

 So, you can take a VM and move it from one machine to another, and the
hardware seen by the VM is identical.

Having a hard time understanding...

So...if one the first hardware has a GeForce 5900 Graphics
card, and the Virtual OS is moved to a second hardware setup
with a Radeon graphics card, the Virtual OS will see them as
the same?

If so, which one?  Surely I'm missing something...

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 1:23 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 Not quite sure what you mean by hardware agnostic OS and 
 software...wouldn't each OS have to be just as aware of the hardware 
 it's running on and the software running on it?

In the case of virtualization, the hardware seen by the guest OS is
virtual - it doesn't correspond directly to the real physical hardware
available to the host OS. So, you can take a VM and move it from one machine
to another, and the hardware seen by the VM is identical. The VM is really
just a big file, usually. I could build a VM, burn it to DVD, send it to
you, and you could start it up. This is the idea behind the free VMware
Player product - it lets you run VMs that you didn't build yourself.

At last year's MAX conference, the hands-on sessions were handled through
virtualization, using MS Virtual PC. The vast majority of people attending
had no idea - their computers just seemed like normal PCs, but they were
actually running a guest OS that the MM folks could just restart after every
session.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction
at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore,
Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!




~|
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Russ]

VMware will provide it's own virtual device for everything, something that
will likely only support the most basic functions (I doubt you can run any
games in VMWare, but I could be wrong).  The OS that you install inside
vmware will only see the virtual device, and not the actual hardware that
the vmware is running on. 

Russ

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 1:37 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?
 
  So, you can take a VM and move it from one machine to another, and the
 hardware seen by the VM is identical.
 
 Having a hard time understanding...
 
 So...if one the first hardware has a GeForce 5900 Graphics
 card, and the Virtual OS is moved to a second hardware setup
 with a Radeon graphics card, the Virtual OS will see them as
 the same?
 
 If so, which one?  Surely I'm missing something...
 
 Rick
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 1:23 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?
 
  Not quite sure what you mean by hardware agnostic OS and
  software...wouldn't each OS have to be just as aware of the hardware
  it's running on and the software running on it?
 
 In the case of virtualization, the hardware seen by the guest OS is
 virtual - it doesn't correspond directly to the real physical hardware
 available to the host OS. So, you can take a VM and move it from one
 machine
 to another, and the hardware seen by the VM is identical. The VM is really
 just a big file, usually. I could build a VM, burn it to DVD, send it to
 you, and you could start it up. This is the idea behind the free VMware
 Player product - it lets you run VMs that you didn't build yourself.
 
 At last year's MAX conference, the hands-on sessions were handled through
 virtualization, using MS Virtual PC. The vast majority of people attending
 had no idea - their computers just seemed like normal PCs, but they were
 actually running a guest OS that the MM folks could just restart after
 every
 session.
 
 Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
 http://www.figleaf.com/
 
 Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
 instruction
 at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore,
 Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
 Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
 
 
 
 
 

~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Robert Everland III]

 So, you can take a VM and move it from one machine to another, and the
hardware seen by the VM is identical.

Having a hard time understanding...

So...if one the first hardware has a GeForce 5900 Graphics
card, and the Virtual OS is moved to a second hardware setup
with a Radeon graphics card, the Virtual OS will see them as
the same?

If so, which one?  Surely I'm missing something...

Rick

Don't expect the virtualized hardware to see a good graphics card. It emulates 
a graphics card, will most likely emulate something small, like a 4mb or 8mb 
standard svga graphics card. So the graphics card in the server itself doesn't 
matter. You could have the greatest video card or the crappiest.


Bob

~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Dave Watts]

 What are the steps to setup a VM image/session?

Typically, you install VMware, tell it you want to create a new virtual
machine, tell it the OS it'll be and how much RAM and disk space will be
required, then it boots to a virtual BIOS screen and you install the guest
OS. It's just like installing an OS on regular hardware, except it's in a
window on your screen.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!


~|
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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[John Beynon]

Windows Enterprise 2003 r2 lets you install one base OS and then host
4 virtual servers under the same license.

john.

On 7/14/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Having a hard time understanding...
 
  So...if one the first hardware has a GeForce 5900 Graphics
  card, and the Virtual OS is moved to a second hardware setup
  with a Radeon graphics card, the Virtual OS will see them as the same?

 In the case of VMware, the guest OS will see a generic VGA card, until you
 install VMware Tools within the guest OS. That will upgrade your virtual
 video card to SVGA. It doesn't matter one bit what video card you actually
 have installed on the host OS.

 Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
 http://www.figleaf.com/

 Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
 instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
 Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
 Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!


 

~|
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up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)]

I have used em all the time, but have never set one up, will have to give it
a go.





This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Oriel House, 26 The Quadrant,
Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DL, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of the
intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note
that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have
received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call
our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within this
communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. 
Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com

-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Fri Jul 14 18:52:53 2006
Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 What are the steps to setup a VM image/session?

Typically, you install VMware, tell it you want to create a new virtual
machine, tell it the OS it'll be and how much RAM and disk space will be
required, then it boots to a virtual BIOS screen and you install the guest
OS. It's just like installing an OS on regular hardware, except it's in a
window on your screen.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!




~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly

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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Ken Ferguson]

The other thing, I'm guessing, is that since VMware Server can run on 
Linux, you can get a super-duper, stripped-down, double 
throwdown-lightning-fast  distro on which to run it. That's got to be 
better resource-utilization-wise than running MS VirtualPC on a Windows 
host OS.

*
Ken Ferguson
214.636.6126
*






Dave Watts wrote:
 I see that only the Starter edition is free...how does that 
 compare to MS's free (full?) version?
 

 VMware Server is roughly equivalent to MS Virtual Server. Both run on an
 existing OS, but VMware Server is available for Linux, and probably provides
 better support for non-Windows guest OSs.

 One other interesting feature with VMware Server is the availability of
 appliances - pre-built VMs for various uses. For example, let's say you
 want a dedicated spam filter VM. You just download it, and start it up.

 Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
 http://www.figleaf.com/

 Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
 instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
 Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
 Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

 

~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Rick Faircloth]

Ok...that makes sense...and it won't be an issue for servers, which
don't need high-powered graphics cards anyway...

What about hard drives?  Will VM's recognize various types and speeds
of hard drives?

I'll bet none of the venders of VM software has published a list of the
limitations of using their products...

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 1:43 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

VMware will provide it's own virtual device for everything, something that
will likely only support the most basic functions (I doubt you can run any
games in VMWare, but I could be wrong).  The OS that you install inside
vmware will only see the virtual device, and not the actual hardware that
the vmware is running on. 

Russ

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 1:37 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?
 
  So, you can take a VM and move it from one machine to another, and 
  the
 hardware seen by the VM is identical.
 
 Having a hard time understanding...
 
 So...if one the first hardware has a GeForce 5900 Graphics card, and 
 the Virtual OS is moved to a second hardware setup with a Radeon 
 graphics card, the Virtual OS will see them as the same?
 
 If so, which one?  Surely I'm missing something...
 
 Rick
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 1:23 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?
 
  Not quite sure what you mean by hardware agnostic OS and 
  software...wouldn't each OS have to be just as aware of the 
  hardware it's running on and the software running on it?
 
 In the case of virtualization, the hardware seen by the guest OS is 
 virtual - it doesn't correspond directly to the real physical hardware 
 available to the host OS. So, you can take a VM and move it from one 
 machine to another, and the hardware seen by the VM is identical. The 
 VM is really just a big file, usually. I could build a VM, burn it to 
 DVD, send it to you, and you could start it up. This is the idea 
 behind the free VMware Player product - it lets you run VMs that you 
 didn't build yourself.
 
 At last year's MAX conference, the hands-on sessions were handled 
 through virtualization, using MS Virtual PC. The vast majority of 
 people attending had no idea - their computers just seemed like normal 
 PCs, but they were actually running a guest OS that the MM folks could 
 just restart after every session.
 
 Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
 http://www.figleaf.com/
 
 Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized 
 instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, 
 Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
 Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
 
 
 
 
 



~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Rick Faircloth]

 complete portability of images

Now that brings me back to a question I asked earlier...does complete
portability of images
include all installed software, files, and data /databases on a virtual
machine?

Can a virtual machine do the work of cloning software, say, Norton Ghost?

Rick


-Original Message-
From: John Beynon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:03 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

it's a case of installing VIrtual PC/Server - creating a virtual machine, it
setting max ram, disk sizes etc - turning the machine on and watching it
POST then capture the physical CD drive and press any key to boot the CD
then just treat it like a normal computer.

As for using virtual machines in production i know several LARGE uk corps
use virtualisation - complete portability of images independent of physical
hardware is worth it to them!

jb

On 7/14/06, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 So,

 What are the steps to setup a VM image/session?

 N







 This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Oriel House, 26 The Quadrant, 
 Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DL, United Kingdom), a division of Reed 
 Business, Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains 
 information which is confidential and may also be privileged.  It is 
 for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s).  If you are not 
 the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, 
 copying or use of this communication or the information in it is 
 strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this 
 communication in error please return it to the sender or call our 
 switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within this
communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions.
 Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com

 -Original Message-
 From: Eric A. Haskins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
 Sent: Fri Jul 14 18:26:15 2006
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 Any idea if VMotion can be added to the free VMWare Standard Edition, 
 and, if so, for how much?
 
 Rick

 VMotion is an ESX only product. Standard can move VMs between servers 
 if you power them down first.

 Eric

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:08 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 Any idea if VMotion can be added to the free VMWare Standard Edition, 
 and, if so, for how much?

 Rick






 



~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly

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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Ken Ferguson]

Rick, go download the VM Player and then download a bunch of the free 
appliances. Then you'll really start to get a good picture of what it's 
all about.

*
Ken Ferguson
214.636.6126
*






Rick Faircloth wrote:
 complete portability of images
 

 Now that brings me back to a question I asked earlier...does complete
 portability of images
 include all installed software, files, and data /databases on a virtual
 machine?

 Can a virtual machine do the work of cloning software, say, Norton Ghost?

 Rick


 -Original Message-
 From: John Beynon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:03 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 it's a case of installing VIrtual PC/Server - creating a virtual machine, it
 setting max ram, disk sizes etc - turning the machine on and watching it
 POST then capture the physical CD drive and press any key to boot the CD
 then just treat it like a normal computer.

 As for using virtual machines in production i know several LARGE uk corps
 use virtualisation - complete portability of images independent of physical
 hardware is worth it to them!

 jb

 On 7/14/06, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 So,

 What are the steps to setup a VM image/session?

 N







 This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Oriel House, 26 The Quadrant, 
 Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DL, United Kingdom), a division of Reed 
 Business, Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains 
 information which is confidential and may also be privileged.  It is 
 for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s).  If you are not 
 the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, 
 copying or use of this communication or the information in it is 
 strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this 
 communication in error please return it to the sender or call our 
 switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within this
 
 communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions.
   
 Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com

 -Original Message-
 From: Eric A. Haskins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
 Sent: Fri Jul 14 18:26:15 2006
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 
 Any idea if VMotion can be added to the free VMWare Standard Edition, 
 and, if so, for how much?

 Rick
   
 VMotion is an ESX only product. Standard can move VMs between servers 
 if you power them down first.

 Eric

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:08 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 Any idea if VMotion can be added to the free VMWare Standard Edition, 
 and, if so, for how much?

 Rick







 



 

~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Eric A. Haskins]

Now that brings me back to a question I asked earlier...does complete
portability of images
include all installed software, files, and data /databases on a virtual
machine?

Can a virtual machine do the work of cloning software, say, Norton
Ghost?

Rick


Just think of the image as a portable server. Once you fire up the image
you have a Server. As long as the server you place that image on has
access to the subnet where your other things are(file
server,database,San) they will work.

I looked at a solution for a client's test environment. They wanted a
fluid test environment that different departments could beat up and roll
back. The original plan was using Ghost but I wanted something quicker
and that's why we went with VM but ran into a snag as they still had
some RMX servers LOL

~Eric

~|
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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Russ]

Most of the time you will run vmware on a virtual drive (which is just a
file, or a series of files).  I believe you can also let it use a hard drive
directly, but not sure of the overhead and you probably won't be able to
move it to another machine easily. 

Russ

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:11 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?
 
 Ok...that makes sense...and it won't be an issue for servers, which
 don't need high-powered graphics cards anyway...
 
 What about hard drives?  Will VM's recognize various types and speeds
 of hard drives?
 
 I'll bet none of the venders of VM software has published a list of the
 limitations of using their products...
 
 Rick
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 1:43 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?
 
 VMware will provide it's own virtual device for everything, something that
 will likely only support the most basic functions (I doubt you can run any
 games in VMWare, but I could be wrong).  The OS that you install inside
 vmware will only see the virtual device, and not the actual hardware that
 the vmware is running on.
 
 Russ
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 1:37 PM
  To: CF-Talk
  Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?
 
   So, you can take a VM and move it from one machine to another, and
   the
  hardware seen by the VM is identical.
 
  Having a hard time understanding...
 
  So...if one the first hardware has a GeForce 5900 Graphics card, and
  the Virtual OS is moved to a second hardware setup with a Radeon
  graphics card, the Virtual OS will see them as the same?
 
  If so, which one?  Surely I'm missing something...
 
  Rick
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 1:23 PM
  To: CF-Talk
  Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?
 
   Not quite sure what you mean by hardware agnostic OS and
   software...wouldn't each OS have to be just as aware of the
   hardware it's running on and the software running on it?
 
  In the case of virtualization, the hardware seen by the guest OS is
  virtual - it doesn't correspond directly to the real physical hardware
  available to the host OS. So, you can take a VM and move it from one
  machine to another, and the hardware seen by the VM is identical. The
  VM is really just a big file, usually. I could build a VM, burn it to
  DVD, send it to you, and you could start it up. This is the idea
  behind the free VMware Player product - it lets you run VMs that you
  didn't build yourself.
 
  At last year's MAX conference, the hands-on sessions were handled
  through virtualization, using MS Virtual PC. The vast majority of
  people attending had no idea - their computers just seemed like normal
  PCs, but they were actually running a guest OS that the MM folks could
  just restart after every session.
 
  Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
  http://www.figleaf.com/
 
  Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
  instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
  Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
  Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly

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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)]

Wonder if you can run Vista on it...





This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Oriel House, 26 The Quadrant,
Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DL, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of the
intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note
that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have
received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call
our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within this
communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. 
Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com

-Original Message-
From: Ken Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Fri Jul 14 19:41:42 2006
Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

Rick, go download the VM Player and then download a bunch of the free 
appliances. Then you'll really start to get a good picture of what it's 
all about.

*
Ken Ferguson
214.636.6126
*






Rick Faircloth wrote:
 complete portability of images
 

 Now that brings me back to a question I asked earlier...does complete
 portability of images
 include all installed software, files, and data /databases on a virtual
 machine?

 Can a virtual machine do the work of cloning software, say, Norton Ghost?

 Rick


 -Original Message-
 From: John Beynon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:03 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 it's a case of installing VIrtual PC/Server - creating a virtual machine,
it
 setting max ram, disk sizes etc - turning the machine on and watching it
 POST then capture the physical CD drive and press any key to boot the CD
 then just treat it like a normal computer.

 As for using virtual machines in production i know several LARGE uk corps
 use virtualisation - complete portability of images independent of
physical
 hardware is worth it to them!

 jb

 On 7/14/06, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 So,

 What are the steps to setup a VM image/session?

 N







 This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Oriel House, 26 The Quadrant, 
 Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DL, United Kingdom), a division of Reed 
 Business, Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains 
 information which is confidential and may also be privileged.  It is 
 for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s).  If you are not 
 the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, 
 copying or use of this communication or the information in it is 
 strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this 
 communication in error please return it to the sender or call our 
 switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within this
 
 communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions.
   
 Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com

 -Original Message-
 From: Eric A. Haskins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
 Sent: Fri Jul 14 18:26:15 2006
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 
 Any idea if VMotion can be added to the free VMWare Standard Edition, 
 and, if so, for how much?

 Rick
   
 VMotion is an ESX only product. Standard can move VMs between servers 
 if you power them down first.

 Eric

 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:08 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

 Any idea if VMotion can be added to the free VMWare Standard Edition, 
 and, if so, for how much?

 Rick







 



 



~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly

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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Rick Faircloth]

Hmmm...looks like I need to learn about subnets...

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Eric A. Haskins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:31 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

Now that brings me back to a question I asked earlier...does complete 
portability of images include all installed software, files, and data 
/databases on a virtual machine?

Can a virtual machine do the work of cloning software, say, Norton
Ghost?

Rick


Just think of the image as a portable server. Once you fire up the image you
have a Server. As long as the server you place that image on has access to
the subnet where your other things are(file
server,database,San) they will work.

I looked at a solution for a client's test environment. They wanted a fluid
test environment that different departments could beat up and roll back. The
original plan was using Ghost but I wanted something quicker and that's why
we went with VM but ran into a snag as they still had some RMX servers LOL

~Eric



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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Eric A. Haskins]

Hmmm...looks like I need to learn about subnets...

Rick

Oops I guess I should have said access to the network it was originally
on. Busy day here so I am not proof reading my posts :)

~Eric


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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Rick Faircloth]

It would have that...I run my own network here...webserver, mail server, ftp
server...
I've just never tried to separate the web server and the databases it
accesses.

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Eric A. Haskins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 3:03 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

Hmmm...looks like I need to learn about subnets...

Rick

Oops I guess I should have said access to the network it was originally on.
Busy day here so I am not proof reading my posts :)

~Eric




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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Eric A. Haskins]

It would have that...I run my own network here...webserver, mail
server, ftp server...
I've just never tried to separate the web server and the databases it
accesses.

Rick

We are completely distributed here. One of our guys went to the VMware
conference they put on and the room was filled with people from
Hospitals and Government organizations. One of the biggest things is
disaster recovery once we are completely virtualized we could literally
spin up our Datacenter in Tampa in Boston in a matter of minutes via the
network if there was a problem. Also think of the speed if you have your
File Server in an instance and a High Volume Web App in another instance
on the same server. The traffic would never hit the network they would
just talk to one another. 

This all based on having the hardware to do this. I think we are using
Quad Zeon boxes with 28GB of ram :) I wish I had one at home!

Great stuff I can remember when VMware first came out. It allowed us to
run Linux on windows and cost me $49.00 I want to say in 2000 LOL

I am going to duck out of this topic online to clear the list so if
anyone wants to chat more shoot me an email

~Eric




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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Dave Watts]

 Wonder if you can run Vista on it...

You can run Vista on VMware Workstation and Server, so I would imagine so.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

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Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Pete Ruckelshaus]

Man, I just wish there was a way to convert an existing MS OS installed on a
server into an image...I've got a couple of servers running legacy apps that
I'd love to free up and put to better use.

Pete


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RE: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

[Eric A. Haskins]

Man, I just wish there was a way to convert an existing MS OS installed
on a
server into an image...I've got a couple of servers running legacy apps
that
I'd love to free up and put to better use.

Pete


There is an app that I believe is part of VMWare ESX that allows you to
take a snapshot of a box. Works like ghost you put a disk in reboot and
then boot to the disk take a snapshot of the server and volia VMware
instance.  I will get you somemore info. I think they have a trial :)

~Eric 

-Original Message-
From: Pete Ruckelshaus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 4:58 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Microsoft Virtual PC / Should I be interested, or not?

Man, I just wish there was a way to convert an existing MS OS installed
on a
server into an image...I've got a couple of servers running legacy apps
that
I'd love to free up and put to better use.

Pete




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Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
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