RE: Installing CF Studio 5 UltraDev 4 upgrade

[Dave Watts]

> I have several sets of the CF Studio 5 Dreamweaver UltraDev 4 
> upgrade to install over CF Studio 4.5.2. We're using MS PWS for 
> our local web server and we're running WinNT 4, SP6.
> 
> Are there any gotchas I should be aware of?

No, you shouldn't have any problems.

> Is there any benefit to installing the software in a particular order?

Not that I'm aware of. My personal preference for installing Studio and
Ultradev is this:
1. Install Studio.

But that's just me, and I've installed them both in various order without
any problems.

> Am I right that Studio 5 will install to a new folder leaving 
> Studio 4.5.2 where it is?

That's correct. During the install, you'll get the option to copy your
Studio 4.5.x settings, which won't affect your existing 4.5.x installation.

> Once Studio 5 is installed can I uninstall Studio 4.5.2 without
> causing problems?

Yes, I haven't had any problems there either.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444
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RE: Installing CF Studio 5 UltraDev 4 upgrade

[Neil Clark]

George, you will be fine.  CFStudio 4.5.2 was an Allaire product therefore
was installed in an Allaire folder, while CFStudio 5 is Macromedia which is
installed in a different folder altogether.  It wil however, recognise you
had 4.5.2 and on first run, import your settings no problemo :-)

They can run side by side also.

Ultradev is a seperate prog and seperate install - so no worries there.

Install the new developer version - it is Enterprise and it will work fine
also.

HTH

Neil
Team Macromedia - Spectra
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Installing CF Studio 5 UltraDev 4 upgrade

[Earl, George]

I have several sets of the CF Studio 5 Dreamweaver UltraDev 4 upgrade to
install over CF Studio 4.5.2. We're using MS PWS for our local web server
and we're running WinNT 4, SP6.

Are there any gotchas I should be aware of?

Is there any benefit to installing the software in a particular order?

Am I right that Studio 5 will install to a new folder leaving Studio 4.5.2
where it is? Once Studio 5 is installed can I uninstall Studio 4.5.2 without
causing problems?

Will the UltraDev install mess with the Studio install?

What about the single user CF server? Does the enterprise version come on
the Studio CD like in the past or should I install the new developer
version?

Thanks!

George
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RE: UltraDev

[Mark A. Kruger - CFG]

hehe - thanks for the ... insight.

-Original Message-
From: Billy Cravens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:53 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: UltraDev


Start -> Control Panel -> Add/Remove Programs -> Macromedia Ultradev?  j/k,
couldn't resist

I usually get a stiff drink, then start a random series of
CFOUTPUT's/CFABORT in UD's code view.  Things start going blurry, then I
realize I'm not really intoxicated, it's just a series of obscure 
and MM_ variables.

- Original Message -
From: "Mark A. Kruger - CFG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: UltraDev


> I'd be curious to know how you'all debug.  I've tried the de-bugger, but I
> always come back to hand coding debug code and testing in a browser when
I'm
> doing something really complex.  Anyone?
>
> mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Neil Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:14 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: UltraDev
>
>
> 
> 
> yep, i'm with ya on that.
> 
> 
>
> 
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Re: UltraDev

[savan . thongvanh]

one line at a time using IE and NS's javascript error prompts.  one h
andy
thing that alot of ppl but not EVERYONE knows is that if you type
"javascript:" in the NS location box you get a console w/ javascript er
ror
output.




"Billy Cravens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 01/28/2002 02:52:42 PM

Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To:   CF-Talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:

Subject:  Re: UltraDev


Start -> Control Panel -> Add/Remove Programs -> Macromedia Ultradev?  
j/k,
couldn't resist

I usually get a stiff drink, then start a random series of
CFOUTPUT's/CFABORT in UD's code view.  Things start going blurry, the
n I
realize I'm not really intoxicated, it's just a series of obscure

and MM_ variables.

- Original Message -
From: "Mark A. Kruger - CFG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: UltraDev


> I'd be curious to know how you'all debug.  I've tried the de-bugger
, but
I
> always come back to hand coding debug code and testing in a browser w
hen
I'm
> doing something really complex.  Anyone?
>
> mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Neil Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:14 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: UltraDev
>
>
> 
> 
> yep, i'm with ya on that.
> 
> 
>
> _
> _
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Re: UltraDev

[Billy Cravens]

Start -> Control Panel -> Add/Remove Programs -> Macromedia Ultradev?  j/k,
couldn't resist

I usually get a stiff drink, then start a random series of
CFOUTPUT's/CFABORT in UD's code view.  Things start going blurry, then I
realize I'm not really intoxicated, it's just a series of obscure 
and MM_ variables.

- Original Message -
From: "Mark A. Kruger - CFG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: UltraDev


> I'd be curious to know how you'all debug.  I've tried the de-bugger, but I
> always come back to hand coding debug code and testing in a browser when
I'm
> doing something really complex.  Anyone?
>
> mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Neil Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:14 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: UltraDev
>
>
> 
> 
> yep, i'm with ya on that.
> 
> 
>
> _
> _
> 
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RE: UltraDev

[Neil Clark]

You could also try CF_Debug v3.0 from pengoworks.com thats good.

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RE: UltraDev

[Mark A. Kruger - CFG]

That was my experience as well.  I have also found  to be a great
tag for the purpose of debugging.  I used to write lots of output code to
figure out what's my variables contain - now it's a one step deal.

-Original Message-
From: Neil Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 7:23 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: UltraDev


Jeez! the debugger has never really worked to any sort of degree to make it
useful (unline Director's real-time watcher/debugger which is a god send for
debugging.)

I personally tend to just use a well placed CFABORT when it all goes wrong
to try and find a bug.  If you know the code it generally is pretty easy to
figure out where an error/bug crops up.

N

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RE: UltraDev

[Neil Clark]

Jeez! the debugger has never really worked to any sort of degree to make it
useful (unline Director's real-time watcher/debugger which is a god send for
debugging.)

I personally tend to just use a well placed CFABORT when it all goes wrong
to try and find a bug.  If you know the code it generally is pretty easy to
figure out where an error/bug crops up.

N

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RE: UltraDev

[Mark A. Kruger - CFG]

I'd be curious to know how you'all debug.  I've tried the de-bugger, but I
always come back to hand coding debug code and testing in a browser when I'm
doing something really complex.  Anyone?

mark

-Original Message-
From: Neil Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:14 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: UltraDev




yep, i'm with ya on that.



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RE: UltraDev

[Neil Clark]

yep, i'm with ya on that.



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RE: UltraDev

[Carlisle, Eric]

Well said!  To this day, I feel very limited in a WYSIWYG interface.  
No
matter how many times I try to use Dreamweaver, I always come crawling 
back
to Studio.  That's not to say that one is right and the other is wrong.
It's just the way I'm accustomed to coding.

EC


-Original Message-
From: Neil Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 9:01 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: UltraDev


Maybe the design tab was not that good, and indeed it wasnt given much
attention... but the code editing of CFS is unmatched.  A good 
hand-coder
shouldn't need a design tab anyway - they should think in tables. :-)

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RE: UltraDev

[Neil Clark]

Maybe the design tab was not that good, and indeed it wasnt given much
attention... but the code editing of CFS is unmatched.  A good hand-coder
shouldn't need a design tab anyway - they should think in tables. :-)
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RE: UltraDev

[Ben Forta]

My point exactly. Thanks.

--- Ben


-Original Message-
From: Andrew Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 4:04 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: UltraDev


Yes and the design tab in my opinion was not that good, it felt like it
was not updated enough and I never used it as it felt to restricted to
what you could and couldn't design.

But with the Dreamweaver integration since 4.0 I felt this a better
option anyway.


-Original Message-
From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Sunday, 27 January 2002 2:36 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: UltraDev

And do add to what Matt said, Allaire (pre MM) added an option to
DISABLE the design tab (at the request of users), and also had popup
warnings when switching to that mode.

I know of no one who liked or used that feature regularly. It was one of
the most complained about features in the product. Removing it was not a
way to push other products (hey, we've been doing that since even before
there was a design mode, never noticed the Dreamweaver integration?), it
was about removing a feature that caused more complaints and annoyance
than it was worth. That's it.

--- Ben




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RE: UltraDev

[Andrew Scott]

Yes and the design tab in my opinion was not that good, it felt like it
was not updated enough and I never used it as it felt to restricted to
what you could and couldn't design.

But with the Dreamweaver integration since 4.0 I felt this a better
option anyway.


-Original Message-
From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Sunday, 27 January 2002 2:36 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: UltraDev

And do add to what Matt said, Allaire (pre MM) added an option to
DISABLE the design tab (at the request of users), and also had popup
warnings when switching to that mode.

I know of no one who liked or used that feature regularly. It was one of
the most complained about features in the product. Removing it was not a
way to push other products (hey, we've been doing that since even before
there was a design mode, never noticed the Dreamweaver integration?), it
was about removing a feature that caused more complaints and annoyance
than it was worth. That's it.

--- Ben



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RE: UltraDev

[John McKown]

I use both Studio and Ultradev.   Studio for CF and SQL coding, connectin
g
to datasources, tag completion, snippets, and the great help files.   Des
ign
view has always sucked in Studio.  I don't think anyone is denying that.

What I have yet to see people complain about with Studio is the "project"
portion.  Can someone tell me why it takes 5 times as long for Studio to 
FTP
a web site when compared to UD4?   UD4 rocks for file check-in and out, a
nd
it also rocks for the speed in which it indexes a site.

WYSIWYG queries?  MM codes in my source?  No thanks..

Macromedia: Just fix studio by taking the file management and visual form
 &
table design from UD and stick them into studio.  Then you will have one
rocking CF product IMHO.  Why is that so hard?   We know you have Studio 
6.
Release it already.

John McKown, President
Delaware.Net, Inc.
28 Old Rudnick Lane
Dover, DE 19901
phone: 302-736-5515
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
icq: 1812513




-Original Message-
From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 10:36 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: UltraDev


And do add to what Matt said, Allaire (pre MM) added an option to
DISABLE the design tab (at the request of users), and also had popup
warnings when switching to that mode.

I know of no one who liked or used that feature regularly. It was one of
the most complained about features in the product. Removing it was not a
way to push other products (hey, we've been doing that since even before
there was a design mode, never noticed the Dreamweaver integration?), it
was about removing a feature that caused more complaints and annoyance
than it was worth. That's it.

--- Ben




-Original Message-
From: Matt Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 1:19 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: UltraDev



>Hi, basically with CF Studio 4.5.x, you used to get a design tab for
>performing the visual site of web design - this has now been removed
>from CF Studio 5 (due to the Allaire/Macromedia merger) and the design
>is expected to be done with Dreamweaver.

This is not correct. The Design Tab was removed because the code was not

maintainable and the feature in focus groups received very little
praise.
UD is a better visual editor (although not a better code editor at this
point) and most users actually had it already so we thought that the
removal was a better solution than having team members work on that at
the
expense of features that people really did want and ask for.
_

Matt Brown   Community
Manager
Macromedia  (650) 481-4525   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: UltraDev

[John McKown]

I use both Studio and Ultradev.   Studio for CF and SQL coding, connectin
g
to datasources, tag completion, snippets, and the great help files.   Des
ign
view has always sucked in Studio.  I don't think anyone is denying that.

What I have yet to see people complain about with Studio is the "project"
portion.  Can someone tell me why it takes 5 times as long for Studio to 
FTP
a web site when compared to UD4?   UD4 rocks for file check-in and out, a
nd
it also rocks for the speed in which it indexes a site.

WYSIWYG queries?  MM codes in my source?  No thanks..

Macromedia: Just fix studio by taking the file management and visual form
 &
table design from UD and stick them into studio.  Then you will have one
rocking CF product IMHO.  Why is that so hard?   We know you have Studio 
6.
Release it already.

John McKown, President
Delaware.Net, Inc.
28 Old Rudnick Lane
Dover, DE 19901
phone: 302-736-5515
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
icq: 1812513


-Original Message-
From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 10:36 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: UltraDev


And do add to what Matt said, Allaire (pre MM) added an option to
DISABLE the design tab (at the request of users), and also had popup
warnings when switching to that mode.

I know of no one who liked or used that feature regularly. It was one of
the most complained about features in the product. Removing it was not a
way to push other products (hey, we've been doing that since even before
there was a design mode, never noticed the Dreamweaver integration?), it
was about removing a feature that caused more complaints and annoyance
than it was worth. That's it.

--- Ben




-Original Message-
From: Matt Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 1:19 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: UltraDev



>Hi, basically with CF Studio 4.5.x, you used to get a design tab for
>performing the visual site of web design - this has now been removed
>from CF Studio 5 (due to the Allaire/Macromedia merger) and the design
>is expected to be done with Dreamweaver.

This is not correct. The Design Tab was removed because the code was not

maintainable and the feature in focus groups received very little
praise.
UD is a better visual editor (although not a better code editor at this
point) and most users actually had it already so we thought that the
removal was a better solution than having team members work on that at
the
expense of features that people really did want and ask for.
_

Matt Brown   Community
Manager
Macromedia  (650) 481-4525   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: UltraDev

[Ben Forta]

And do add to what Matt said, Allaire (pre MM) added an option to
DISABLE the design tab (at the request of users), and also had popup
warnings when switching to that mode.

I know of no one who liked or used that feature regularly. It was one of
the most complained about features in the product. Removing it was not a
way to push other products (hey, we've been doing that since even before
there was a design mode, never noticed the Dreamweaver integration?), it
was about removing a feature that caused more complaints and annoyance
than it was worth. That's it.

--- Ben




-Original Message-
From: Matt Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 1:19 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: UltraDev



>Hi, basically with CF Studio 4.5.x, you used to get a design tab for 
>performing the visual site of web design - this has now been removed 
>from CF Studio 5 (due to the Allaire/Macromedia merger) and the design 
>is expected to be done with Dreamweaver.

This is not correct. The Design Tab was removed because the code was not

maintainable and the feature in focus groups received very little
praise. 
UD is a better visual editor (although not a better code editor at this 
point) and most users actually had it already so we thought that the 
removal was a better solution than having team members work on that at
the 
expense of features that people really did want and ask for.
_

Matt Brown   Community
Manager
Macromedia  (650) 481-4525   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: UltraDev

[Matt Brown]

>Macromedia have diminished your right to use a third party WYSIWYG HTML
>editor with ColdFusion Studio 5.
>
>Thay have attempted to FORCE you to not only purchase Studio 5 but also
>Ultradev 4.0.x.

This is simply silly.

Can you explain this more fully? Did someone show up at the office with a 
crowbar? You do realize that CFS is available stand alone don't you? Most 
of our users want both apps so we made a bundle and it is selling a LOT 
more than the stand alone so I guess that was a pretty good move.

We don't force you to do anything and we haven't taken anything away from 
you in terms of choice except a control that we got from MS. The MS Editor 
is no longer supported by MS and to make it work correctly we would have 
had to remove engineers from other parts of the product. If you can think 
of any two large new features that you can get all the users of CFS to 
agree to remove, then we can look at that decision again. That is the way 
it works, it isn't free. You want something, you lose something else. Full 
Stop.
_

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Macromedia  (650) 481-4525   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: UltraDev

[Matt Brown]

>Hi, basically with CF Studio 4.5.x, you used to get a design tab for
>performing the visual site of web design - this has now been removed from CF
>Studio 5 (due to the Allaire/Macromedia merger) and the design is expected
>to be done with Dreamweaver.

This is not correct. The Design Tab was removed because the code was not 
maintainable and the feature in focus groups received very little praise. 
UD is a better visual editor (although not a better code editor at this 
point) and most users actually had it already so we thought that the 
removal was a better solution than having team members work on that at the 
expense of features that people really did want and ask for.
_

Matt Brown   Community Manager
Macromedia  (650) 481-4525   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: UltraDev

[Mark Campbell]

Yea.. MM has always forced the issues with upgrades - whether you want them or
not.
but if that what they need to keep advancing technologies, then i guess it's not
that bad of a trade-off.
I guess the door swings both ways. It's like the wife that steals your wallet but
comes through in the clutch.


Peter Tilbrook wrote:

> Macromedia have diminished your right to use a third party WYSIWYG HTML
> editor with ColdFusion Studio 5.
>
> Thay have attempted to FORCE you to not only purchase Studio 5 but also
> Ultradev 4.0.x. The latter product is severely lacking in it's current form.
> Most CF developers could not care less about "visual development". Ultradev
> asssists in some ways but generally hinders in others. Use it for a while,
> especially in ColdFusion 'code complex' situations. Ultradev is a good start
> but way off what serious developers need.
>
> >>
>
> Can someone tell me what UltraDev adds to the Cold Fusion Studio?  I looked
> at the product description and could not really get what I would have if I
> had CF Sudio 5 Ultradev versus CF Studio 5.  I am contemplating whether it
> is worth the money to renew my alliance.
>
> >>
>
> Save your money and stick with CF 4.5.2 if you value the one-click method of
> opening your current template into your preferred editor. CFS 5 removes the
> choice - the same is said with the CSS editor - TopStyle.
>
> <<
>
> Save your money = stick with CF Studio 4.5 (SP) until MM pull there finger
> out.
> 
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RE: UltraDev

[Lee Fuller]

Don't you dare!  It's MINE!  MINE, I tell you!

I'll sue you for breathing!!




> > Actually, Macromedia determined that they have to remove 
> "one click" 
> > convenience because Amazon.com was going to sue them for copyright? 
> > infringement.
> 
> LOL!
> I think I'm going to copyright oxygen today. 
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RE: UltraDev

[Carlisle, Eric]

> Actually, Macromedia determined that they have to remove "one click"
> convenience because Amazon.com was going to sue them for copyright?
> infringement.

LOL!
I think I'm going to copyright oxygen today. 
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Re: UltraDev

[Billy Cravens]

LOL

I've never had any problems using multiple WYSIWYG's on one computer - maybe
one day Studio will uninstall all of them except for UD when I'm sleeping
but I doubt it.

By the way, you can control what applications open what files.  It's an
operating system feature.

Actually, Macromedia determined that they have to remove "one click"
convenience because Amazon.com was going to sue them for copyright
infringement.


- Original Message -
From: "Peter Tilbrook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:59 PM
Subject: RE: UltraDev


> Macromedia have diminished your right to use a third party WYSIWYG HTML
> editor with ColdFusion Studio 5.
>
> Thay have attempted to FORCE you to not only purchase Studio 5 but also
> Ultradev 4.0.x. The latter product is severely lacking in it's current
form.
> Most CF developers could not care less about "visual development".
Ultradev
> asssists in some ways but generally hinders in others. Use it for a while,
> especially in ColdFusion 'code complex' situations. Ultradev is a good
start
> but way off what serious developers need.
>
> >>
>
> Can someone tell me what UltraDev adds to the Cold Fusion Studio?  I
looked
> at the product description and could not really get what I would have if I
> had CF Sudio 5 Ultradev versus CF Studio 5.  I am contemplating whether it
> is worth the money to renew my alliance.
>
> >>
>
> Save your money and stick with CF 4.5.2 if you value the one-click method
of
> opening your current template into your preferred editor. CFS 5 removes
the
> choice - the same is said with the CSS editor - TopStyle.
>
> <<
>
> Save your money = stick with CF Studio 4.5 (SP) until MM pull there finger
> out.
> 
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RE: UltraDev

[Mark A. Kruger - CFG]

Dave,

Hehe - got your dander up a bit eh? I think I agree with every point you
made
(except the part about using VI if they want to... aught to be outlawed
).

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 7:51 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: UltraDev


> Macromedia have diminished your right to use a third party
> WYSIWYG HTML editor with ColdFusion Studio 5.

I think this is kind of silly. You're free to use whatever WYSIWYG editor
you want - or use none at all.

> Thay have attempted to FORCE you to not only purchase Studio
> 5 but also Ultradev 4.0.x.

How have they attempted to force this? As far as I can tell, you can either
buy one or the other separately, or you can buy them bundled. They may merge
the products in the future, but your complaint seems premature to me.

> The latter product is severely lacking in it's current form.

I can't think of a WYSIWYG editor for CGI programs which isn't.

> Most CF developers could not care less about "visual development".

Those developers (myself included) can stick with CF Studio 5, or vi for
that matter.

> Ultradev asssists in some ways but generally hinders in others.
> Use it for a while, especially in ColdFusion 'code complex'
> situations. Ultradev is a good start but way off what serious
> developers need.

I agree. Ultradev, by itself, is not a sufficient development tool. Maybe,
though, if the guys at Macromedia thought about it, they'd bundle this
design tool with a good text editor. Oh, wait...

> Can someone tell me what UltraDev adds to the Cold Fusion
> Studio? I looked at the product description and could not really
> get what I would have if I had CF Sudio 5 Ultradev versus CF
> Studio 5. I am contemplating whether it is worth the money
> to renew my alliance.

It adds ... Ultradev. If you like Ultradev, you can buy the bundle for less
than buying each separately. If you don't like Ultradev, you can just buy
Studio. If the only value you get from your alliance is a tools discount,
and you can pay less to just get Studio, then I guess it isn't worth
renewing.

> Save your money and stick with CF 4.5.2 if you value the
> one-click method of opening your current template into your
> preferred editor. CFS 5 removes the choice - the same is
> said with the CSS editor - TopStyle.

I have both Studio and Ultradev installed, and if I double-click on a CFM
file, it opens Studio. If I wanted to change that, I could edit the registry
or use the "File Types" dialog and have it open whatever I like.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444
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RE: UltraDev

[Dave Watts]

> Macromedia have diminished your right to use a third party 
> WYSIWYG HTML editor with ColdFusion Studio 5.

I think this is kind of silly. You're free to use whatever WYSIWYG editor
you want - or use none at all.

> Thay have attempted to FORCE you to not only purchase Studio 
> 5 but also Ultradev 4.0.x.

How have they attempted to force this? As far as I can tell, you can either
buy one or the other separately, or you can buy them bundled. They may merge
the products in the future, but your complaint seems premature to me.

> The latter product is severely lacking in it's current form. 

I can't think of a WYSIWYG editor for CGI programs which isn't.

> Most CF developers could not care less about "visual development".

Those developers (myself included) can stick with CF Studio 5, or vi for
that matter.
 
> Ultradev asssists in some ways but generally hinders in others. 
> Use it for a while, especially in ColdFusion 'code complex' 
> situations. Ultradev is a good start but way off what serious 
> developers need.

I agree. Ultradev, by itself, is not a sufficient development tool. Maybe,
though, if the guys at Macromedia thought about it, they'd bundle this
design tool with a good text editor. Oh, wait...

> Can someone tell me what UltraDev adds to the Cold Fusion 
> Studio? I looked at the product description and could not really 
> get what I would have if I had CF Sudio 5 Ultradev versus CF 
> Studio 5. I am contemplating whether it is worth the money 
> to renew my alliance.

It adds ... Ultradev. If you like Ultradev, you can buy the bundle for less
than buying each separately. If you don't like Ultradev, you can just buy
Studio. If the only value you get from your alliance is a tools discount,
and you can pay less to just get Studio, then I guess it isn't worth
renewing.

> Save your money and stick with CF 4.5.2 if you value the 
> one-click method of opening your current template into your 
> preferred editor. CFS 5 removes the choice - the same is 
> said with the CSS editor - TopStyle.

I have both Studio and Ultradev installed, and if I double-click on a CFM
file, it opens Studio. If I wanted to change that, I could edit the registry
or use the "File Types" dialog and have it open whatever I like.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444
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RE: UltraDev

[Robert Everland]

They haven't force you to buy Ultradev 4, heck like the design tab was any
good to begin with, I mean come on, that thing screwed the code up more than
Ultradev ever could. At least now that I have both I don't have to spend
extra time coding a simple data display page I could just do it in ultradev
then clean up the code later if I have to.

Robert Everland III
Dixon Ticonderoga
Web Developer Extraordinaire

-Original Message-
From: Peter Tilbrook [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 12:00 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: UltraDev


Macromedia have diminished your right to use a third party WYSIWYG HTML
editor with ColdFusion Studio 5.

Thay have attempted to FORCE you to not only purchase Studio 5 but also
Ultradev 4.0.x. The latter product is severely lacking in it's current form.
Most CF developers could not care less about "visual development". Ultradev
asssists in some ways but generally hinders in others. Use it for a while,
especially in ColdFusion 'code complex' situations. Ultradev is a good start
but way off what serious developers need.

>>

Can someone tell me what UltraDev adds to the Cold Fusion Studio?  I looked
at the product description and could not really get what I would have if I
had CF Sudio 5 Ultradev versus CF Studio 5.  I am contemplating whether it
is worth the money to renew my alliance.

>>

Save your money and stick with CF 4.5.2 if you value the one-click method of
opening your current template into your preferred editor. CFS 5 removes the
choice - the same is said with the CSS editor - TopStyle.

<<

Save your money = stick with CF Studio 4.5 (SP) until MM pull there finger
out.

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RE: UltraDev

[Ken Wilson]

> Macromedia have diminished your right to use a third party
> WYSIWYG HTML editor with ColdFusion Studio 5.


Huh? Can you be a bit more specific in what way they done this?



> Thay have attempted to FORCE you to not only purchase Studio 5
> but also Ultradev 4.0.x.


How does offering the OPTION of purchasing a bundled package or purchasing
Studio alone constitute forcing you to buy UltraDev? The previous MS-based
offering was almost entirely unusable for anything beyond simple html.

Ken
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RE: UltraDev

[Peter Tilbrook]

Macromedia have diminished your right to use a third party WYSIWYG HTML
editor with ColdFusion Studio 5.

Thay have attempted to FORCE you to not only purchase Studio 5 but also
Ultradev 4.0.x. The latter product is severely lacking in it's current form.
Most CF developers could not care less about "visual development". Ultradev
asssists in some ways but generally hinders in others. Use it for a while,
especially in ColdFusion 'code complex' situations. Ultradev is a good start
but way off what serious developers need.

>>

Can someone tell me what UltraDev adds to the Cold Fusion Studio?  I looked
at the product description and could not really get what I would have if I
had CF Sudio 5 Ultradev versus CF Studio 5.  I am contemplating whether it
is worth the money to renew my alliance.

>>

Save your money and stick with CF 4.5.2 if you value the one-click method of
opening your current template into your preferred editor. CFS 5 removes the
choice - the same is said with the CSS editor - TopStyle.

<<

Save your money = stick with CF Studio 4.5 (SP) until MM pull there finger
out.
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Re: UltraDev

[Bryan Stevenson]

Here we go again. ;-)

You get CF Server 5 and JRun with commercial development licensesno
Studio/Dreamweaver/UltraDev/Flash/Porsche/Mansion/tropical island

HTH

Bryan Stevenson
VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
p. 250.920.8830
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
Macromedia Associate Partner
www.macromedia.com

- Original Message -
From: "Billy Cravens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: UltraDev


> Renew your alliance?  I was under the impression that Macromedia wasn't
> going to include developer software in the Alliance/partner programs.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Chris Combs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 8:51 AM
> Subject: UltraDev
>
>
> > Can someone tell me what UltraDev adds to the Cold Fusion Studio?  I
> looked
> > at the product description and could not really get what I would have if I
> > had CF Sudio 5 Ultradev versus CF Studio 5.  I am contemplating whether it
> > is worth the money to renew my alliance.
> >
> > Chris Combs
> > New Creation Consulting
> >
> >
> 
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Re: UltraDev

[Billy Cravens]

Renew your alliance?  I was under the impression that Macromedia wasn't
going to include developer software in the Alliance/partner programs.

- Original Message -
From: "Chris Combs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 8:51 AM
Subject: UltraDev


> Can someone tell me what UltraDev adds to the Cold Fusion Studio?  I
looked
> at the product description and could not really get what I would have if I
> had CF Sudio 5 Ultradev versus CF Studio 5.  I am contemplating whether it
> is worth the money to renew my alliance.
>
> Chris Combs
> New Creation Consulting
>
> 
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Re: UltraDev

[Bruce Sorge]

They are diffent products sold in the same box. It is just more money to sp
end. However, I use both and I really like it a lot. Ultradev allows me to 
do some cool things like layers, complex table layouts and such. I know tha
t you can do all of this in Studio, but the way I look at it is, why spend 
more time doing the same thing in code that you can do visually. IMHO, I li
ke doing things visually as it speeds up development time for me. WOrth the
 extra money.
-- Original Message --
From: "Chris Combs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:  Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:51:31 -0500

Can someone tell me what UltraDev adds to the Cold Fusion Studio?  I looked

at the product description and could not really get what I would have if I
had CF Sudio 5 Ultradev versus CF Studio 5.  I am contemplating whether it
is worth the money to renew my alliance.

Chris Combs
New Creation Consulting


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Re: UltraDev

[Thomas Muck]

Ultradev will give you visual access to your pages.  It's based on
Dreamweaver, which is the industry standard for developing Web pages.  Plus,
with UltraDev, you can create parameterized server-side code snippets called
Server Behaviors that speed up the development process.

tom


"Chris Combs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Can someone tell me what UltraDev adds to the Cold Fusion Studio?  I
looked
> at the product description and could not really get what I would have if I
> had CF Sudio 5 Ultradev versus CF Studio 5.  I am contemplating whether it
> is worth the money to renew my alliance.
>
> Chris Combs
> New Creation Consulting


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RE: UltraDev

[Neil Clark]

Hi, basically with CF Studio 4.5.x, you used to get a design tab for
performing the visual site of web design - this has now been removed from CF
Studio 5 (due to the Allaire/Macromedia merger) and the design is expected
to be done with Dreamweaver.

Ultradev 4 combines DW4 and Ultradev into one design product.

The downside? Well the code UD creates is awful - really really awful.  It
creates over complicated scripts and design notes etc...

Studio is for the coder who likes neat code and not MM_EVERYWHERE code.

Is is basically the entry level DB/Design tool that DW was way back when.

Hope this helps.

Neil
Team Macromedia Volunteer - Spectra



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Re: UltraDev

[Jeffry Houser]

  No difference, just two separate products sold in the same box.

At 09:51 AM 01/24/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Can someone tell me what UltraDev adds to the Cold Fusion Studio?  I looked
>at the product description and could not really get what I would have if I
>had CF Sudio 5 Ultradev versus CF Studio 5.  I am contemplating whether it
>is worth the money to renew my alliance.
>
>Chris Combs
>New Creation Consulting
>
>
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UltraDev

[Chris Combs]

Can someone tell me what UltraDev adds to the Cold Fusion Studio?  I looked
at the product description and could not really get what I would have if I
had CF Sudio 5 Ultradev versus CF Studio 5.  I am contemplating whether it
is worth the money to renew my alliance.

Chris Combs
New Creation Consulting

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Re: ColdFusion 5 UltraDev 4 - what is it?

[Matt Brown, Community Manager]

tom muck wrote:

> Unfortunately DW doesn't do the same thing that the design view of Homesite
> and CFStudio did.  When you paste text into DW, all formatting is gone.
> When you paste text into the design tab, the formatting is preserved.  I
> have to keep Homesite 4.5 on my computer to be able to have this
> functionality.  I absolutely hate the fact that they removed the
> functionality from the program.

Try paste special in DW. It maintains the line breaks that way. In general it
should do it right in V4 without you having to select paste special, but you
can if you need to.

As for removing functionality, sometimes it happens when you are dealing with
other people's code.

~~
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Re: ColdFusion 5 UltraDev 4 - what is it?

[Matt Brown, Community Manager]

Neil Clark wrote:

> It was removed as [they] want you to use Dreamweaver.

That isn't really the point of the change. We'd love you to use DW, but
there were other issues with the Design Mode. It was the MS DHTML tool
and it we didn't have any access to the guts of the code. Since that is
based on IE4 I believe or maybe 5, it was not good at displaying cross
browser code. So we had to license it, it wasn't really good, we couldn't
fix it easily and when we polled users, they used it a lot less than
other features. I know that we are working on making the use of CF Studio
and UD more seamless with each release, so that is going to be the
recommended way to visually create with the CF Studio. If you are looking
for a lower cost alternative for a visual editor there  are many out
there that are more or less good.

~~
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RE: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio

[Owens, Howard]

Actually, doing complex tables in Studio is a quick and easy process, if you
know how to use Studio and have a clear picture in your mind of what you
want the table to look like.  Check out the table wizard in Studio.  Any
time I need to build a complex table I use it and it's never failed me.

H.



Howard Owens
Internet Operations Coordinator
www.insidevc.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
AIM: GoCatGo1956


> -Original Message-
> From: Brook Davies [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 4:27 PM
> To:   CF-Talk
> Subject:  Re: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio
> 
> Jon,
> 
> I personally don't agree that a WYSIWYG editor is a necessity for web 
> development. Not at all. In fact, I think it is a crutch for many 
> developers because they never learn a solid foundation and good HTML.
> 
> Designing complex table layouts is easy if you've been practicing and know
> 
> HTML like the back of your hand. I've never met a table that I could not 
> make my bitch.  I hand code almost everything, and consequently have a
> very 
> intimidate (no jokes please) relationship with the resulting code.
> 
> Brook
> 
> 
> At 07:05 PM 16/11/01 -0500, you wrote:
> >I've used UD and Studio together since UD 1 came out and before that DW
> and
> >Studio. Personally designing complex table structures from scratch by
> hand
> >takes way too much time. That's what CF is all about, RAD...
> >I've done some site designs in DW that would never have been possible by
> >hand simply because of the time it would take to perfect a table
> structure
> >that was extremly complex.
> >
> >Hopefully after all of the people still using NS4 upgrade, we can finally
> >totally get rid of tables alltogether and use css, but until then,
> designing
> >a site to look exactly like you want will require complex table design.
> Take
> >a look at msn or cnn's home page. I'll go out on a limb and say that hand
> >coding either one of those site designs is impossible, and I can
> guarantee
> >that neither of them were done by hand for sure.
> >
> >Half of the time I dont even save a design in UD though, I just do the
> >design then paste the code into Studio and start refining it. After
> refining
> >the design if I change my mind and need to change the table structure
> >drastically, I'll just copy back into UD, click a button, then copy back.
> >
> >Unless you follow the Yahoo site design school of thought, a WYSIWYG
> editor
> >is a necessity imho.
> >
> >jon
> >- Original Message -
> >From: "Larry Juncker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 5:39 PM
> >Subject: RE: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio
> >
> >
> > > Thanks - That was kind of what I had come to the conclusion of,
> Worthless
> > > unless you totally use WYSIWYG
> > >
> > > I like to see what I am coding, so I guess I just stick with Studio.
> > >
> > > I guess I still don't see why they have the link to UD in Studio
> either,
> > > what purpose does that solve?
> > >
> >
> >
> 
~~
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RE: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio

[Bruce Sorge]

I have been using DW since version 1, and before that I have been coding
HTML by hand, and I still do (with Studio, which really could be
considered a crutch since it helps you along the way with tag insight
and all). Anyway, I have discovered UD, especially version 4 which I
just bought to be very handy. Like the ASP developer and Interdev,
Ultradev serves a good purpose. Although I can lay out tables by hand,
what is the point when you have a good tool that pretty much does the
work for you? And as far as layering goes, have fun doing it by hand as
well. It can and is done, but I prefer to use UD for that. And the CF
integration is great. I tried Netobjects Fusion and totally thought it
was a waste of time and money (glad I did not buy it, some other poor
schlep did and he just let me try it out).
And as far as the link in Studio, I like it because I do not have to go
to the task bar, click on UD, then browse to the folder that has the
file I want to edit. Just click and it is there in seconds.
As Ben Forta said some time ago in CFDJ, you have to pick the right web
tool (CF, ASP, Java, PHP, etc... for the current project, so goes your
editing tools. Use the right tool for the job. 
Why go to the icehouse to fill the icebox when you have electricity in
your house and you can plug in a refrigerator. Why use Notepad just
because it is free when there are great tools out there to use that can
speed up development time? For just pure coding CF, studio is the way to
go. For doing the more mundane stuff like page design, use UD or your
preferred WYSIWYG tool (except for FrontPage).

IMHO that is.

-Original Message-
From: Larry Juncker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 4:39 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio

Thanks - That was kind of what I had come to the conclusion of,
Worthless
unless you totally use WYSIWYG

I like to see what I am coding, so I guess I just stick with Studio.

I guess I still don't see why they have the link to UD in Studio either,
what purpose does that solve?

Larry Juncker
Senior Cold Fusion Developer
Heartland Communications Group, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: BILLY CRAVENS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 4:25 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio


Those capabilities don't exist.  The "code" mode is really nothing more
than
Notepad with color coding.

- Original Message -
From: "Larry Juncker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 4:23 PM
Subject: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio


> Question;
>
> Has anyone figured out how to do Tag completion in UltraDev4 like we
can
do
> in CF Studio?
> They want me to use UltraDev, but I truly am spoiled by the Tag
Completion
> feature of Studio.
>
> Any direction on this would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Larry Juncker
> Senior Cold Fusion Developer
> Heartland Communications Group, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>


~~
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Re: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio

[Jon Hall]

Don't get me wrong I am a hand coder too...when it makes sense (which is
most of the time). I guess it comes down to design style. Not being an
artist, I do my site designs in html, then bring in art elements later,
after I'm totally sure I like the structure. Having no images to lead me, I
tend to radically change the structure midway through a site.
I can not justify hand changing 20 td's  into one td with a rowspan of 20 by
hand when I have UD close by. I can do it in 10 seconds in UD, it doesn't
even need to be thought about. Doing that one task by hand would be a waste
of time and money.

I totally agree about WYSIWYG being a crutch to new developers also. Believe
me, working at a hosting company I have to deal with the army of Frontpage
dweebs (nicest word I could think of.. ;-)) everyday. Designing and
developing are two different things though, and there is no such thing as a
good designer who doesn't have some kind of visual tool in my book. It's
just plain stubbornness to insist on hand coding everything.

Everyone has a different style though, and required is a bit of a strong
word, but if I have an entire site to do and nothing but an idea to start
with. It just makes sense to start in a visual editor.

jon
- Original Message -
From: "Brook Davies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio


> Jon,
>
> I personally don't agree that a WYSIWYG editor is a necessity for web
> development. Not at all. In fact, I think it is a crutch for many
> developers because they never learn a solid foundation and good HTML.
>
> Designing complex table layouts is easy if you've been practicing and know
> HTML like the back of your hand. I've never met a table that I could not
> make my bitch.  I hand code almost everything, and consequently have a
very
> intimidate (no jokes please) relationship with the resulting code.
>
> Brook
>
>
> At 07:05 PM 16/11/01 -0500, you wrote:
> >I've used UD and Studio together since UD 1 came out and before that DW
and
> >Studio. Personally designing complex table structures from scratch by
hand
> >takes way too much time. That's what CF is all about, RAD...
> >I've done some site designs in DW that would never have been possible by
> >hand simply because of the time it would take to perfect a table
structure
> >that was extremly complex.
> >
> >Hopefully after all of the people still using NS4 upgrade, we can finally
> >totally get rid of tables alltogether and use css, but until then,
designing
> >a site to look exactly like you want will require complex table design.
Take
> >a look at msn or cnn's home page. I'll go out on a limb and say that hand
> >coding either one of those site designs is impossible, and I can
guarantee
> >that neither of them were done by hand for sure.
> >
> >Half of the time I dont even save a design in UD though, I just do the
> >design then paste the code into Studio and start refining it. After
refining
> >the design if I change my mind and need to change the table structure
> >drastically, I'll just copy back into UD, click a button, then copy back.
> >
> >Unless you follow the Yahoo site design school of thought, a WYSIWYG
editor
> >is a necessity imho.
> >

~~
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RE: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio

[Zac Belado]

> I've used UD and Studio together since UD 1 came out and before
> that DW and
> Studio. Personally designing complex table structures from scratch by hand
> takes way too much time. That's what CF is all about, RAD...
> I've done some site designs in DW that would never have been possible by
> hand simply because of the time it would take to perfect a table structure
> that was extremly complex.

But you don't need UD for this. You can do the same thing in DW2. In fact
that's the only version of DW I use and its only around for the reason you
mention.

UD and DW are complimentary tools and I think the idea of UD replacing
Studio borders on the ludicrous.
~~
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Re: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio

[Brook Davies]

Jon,

I personally don't agree that a WYSIWYG editor is a necessity for web 
development. Not at all. In fact, I think it is a crutch for many 
developers because they never learn a solid foundation and good HTML.

Designing complex table layouts is easy if you've been practicing and know 
HTML like the back of your hand. I've never met a table that I could not 
make my bitch.  I hand code almost everything, and consequently have a very 
intimidate (no jokes please) relationship with the resulting code.

Brook


At 07:05 PM 16/11/01 -0500, you wrote:
>I've used UD and Studio together since UD 1 came out and before that DW and
>Studio. Personally designing complex table structures from scratch by hand
>takes way too much time. That's what CF is all about, RAD...
>I've done some site designs in DW that would never have been possible by
>hand simply because of the time it would take to perfect a table structure
>that was extremly complex.
>
>Hopefully after all of the people still using NS4 upgrade, we can finally
>totally get rid of tables alltogether and use css, but until then, designing
>a site to look exactly like you want will require complex table design. Take
>a look at msn or cnn's home page. I'll go out on a limb and say that hand
>coding either one of those site designs is impossible, and I can guarantee
>that neither of them were done by hand for sure.
>
>Half of the time I dont even save a design in UD though, I just do the
>design then paste the code into Studio and start refining it. After refining
>the design if I change my mind and need to change the table structure
>drastically, I'll just copy back into UD, click a button, then copy back.
>
>Unless you follow the Yahoo site design school of thought, a WYSIWYG editor
>is a necessity imho.
>
>jon
>- Original Message -
>From: "Larry Juncker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 5:39 PM
>Subject: RE: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio
>
>
> > Thanks - That was kind of what I had come to the conclusion of, Worthless
> > unless you totally use WYSIWYG
> >
> > I like to see what I am coding, so I guess I just stick with Studio.
> >
> > I guess I still don't see why they have the link to UD in Studio either,
> > what purpose does that solve?
> >
>
>
~~
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Re: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio

[Jon Hall]

I've used UD and Studio together since UD 1 came out and before that DW and
Studio. Personally designing complex table structures from scratch by hand
takes way too much time. That's what CF is all about, RAD...
I've done some site designs in DW that would never have been possible by
hand simply because of the time it would take to perfect a table structure
that was extremly complex.

Hopefully after all of the people still using NS4 upgrade, we can finally
totally get rid of tables alltogether and use css, but until then, designing
a site to look exactly like you want will require complex table design. Take
a look at msn or cnn's home page. I'll go out on a limb and say that hand
coding either one of those site designs is impossible, and I can guarantee
that neither of them were done by hand for sure.

Half of the time I dont even save a design in UD though, I just do the
design then paste the code into Studio and start refining it. After refining
the design if I change my mind and need to change the table structure
drastically, I'll just copy back into UD, click a button, then copy back.

Unless you follow the Yahoo site design school of thought, a WYSIWYG editor
is a necessity imho.

jon
- Original Message -
From: "Larry Juncker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 5:39 PM
Subject: RE: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio


> Thanks - That was kind of what I had come to the conclusion of, Worthless
> unless you totally use WYSIWYG
>
> I like to see what I am coding, so I guess I just stick with Studio.
>
> I guess I still don't see why they have the link to UD in Studio either,
> what purpose does that solve?
>

~~
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Re: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio

[tom muck]

Go to www.massimocorner.com for a set of ColdFusion objects for UltraDev
that make it easier to work with, and also his Snippets extension to
UltraDev, which allow you to work with snippets created in
Homesite/CFStudio.

If you use the two programs together you'll get the most for your money.
UltraDev takes a little getting used to -- especially the floaty windows --
but you can do things in it that you can't do in CF Studio, such as applying
rollover behaviors, javascript functions, adjusting table widths, inserting
and optimizing images, turning complex code into point-and-click server
behaviors, and doing complex recordset navigation easily.  Having the button
on Studio makes it easy to go back and forth.

tom

"Larry Juncker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
001701c16eef$83873580$2354ead1@HEARTLAND">news:001701c16eef$83873580$2354ead1@HEARTLAND...
> Thanks - That was kind of what I had come to the conclusion of, Worthless
> unless you totally use WYSIWYG
>
> I like to see what I am coding, so I guess I just stick with Studio.
>
> I guess I still don't see why they have the link to UD in Studio either,
> what purpose does that solve?

~~
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Re: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio

[BILLY CRAVENS]

Actually, UD/DW seems to be pretty good about allowing you to make
modifications in a WYSIWYG without totally screwing up your code.  I think
it really varies by application and developer - sometimes your emphasis is
tight, efficient code, sometimes it's on RAD.  Each tool has its strong
points.

- Original Message -
From: "Larry Juncker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 4:39 PM
Subject: RE: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio


> Thanks - That was kind of what I had come to the conclusion of, Worthless
> unless you totally use WYSIWYG
>
> I like to see what I am coding, so I guess I just stick with Studio.
>
> I guess I still don't see why they have the link to UD in Studio either,
> what purpose does that solve?
>
> Larry Juncker
> Senior Cold Fusion Developer
> Heartland Communications Group, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -Original Message-
> From: BILLY CRAVENS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 4:25 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio
>
>
> Those capabilities don't exist.  The "code" mode is really nothing more
than
> Notepad with color coding.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Larry Juncker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 4:23 PM
> Subject: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio
>
>
> > Question;
> >
> > Has anyone figured out how to do Tag completion in UltraDev4 like we can
> do
> > in CF Studio?
> > They want me to use UltraDev, but I truly am spoiled by the Tag
Completion
> > feature of Studio.
> >
> > Any direction on this would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Larry Juncker
> > Senior Cold Fusion Developer
> > Heartland Communications Group, Inc.
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
>
> 
~~
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RE: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio

[Larry Juncker]

Thanks - That was kind of what I had come to the conclusion of, Worthless
unless you totally use WYSIWYG

I like to see what I am coding, so I guess I just stick with Studio.

I guess I still don't see why they have the link to UD in Studio either,
what purpose does that solve?

Larry Juncker
Senior Cold Fusion Developer
Heartland Communications Group, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: BILLY CRAVENS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 4:25 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio


Those capabilities don't exist.  The "code" mode is really nothing more than
Notepad with color coding.

- Original Message -
From: "Larry Juncker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 4:23 PM
Subject: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio


> Question;
>
> Has anyone figured out how to do Tag completion in UltraDev4 like we can
do
> in CF Studio?
> They want me to use UltraDev, but I truly am spoiled by the Tag Completion
> feature of Studio.
>
> Any direction on this would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Larry Juncker
> Senior Cold Fusion Developer
> Heartland Communications Group, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

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Re: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio

[BILLY CRAVENS]

Those capabilities don't exist.  The "code" mode is really nothing more than
Notepad with color coding.

- Original Message -
From: "Larry Juncker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 4:23 PM
Subject: DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio


> Question;
>
> Has anyone figured out how to do Tag completion in UltraDev4 like we can
do
> in CF Studio?
> They want me to use UltraDev, but I truly am spoiled by the Tag Completion
> feature of Studio.
>
> Any direction on this would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Larry Juncker
> Senior Cold Fusion Developer
> Heartland Communications Group, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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DreamWeaver UltraDev 4 and CF Studio

[Larry Juncker]

Question;

Has anyone figured out how to do Tag completion in UltraDev4 like we can do
in CF Studio?
They want me to use UltraDev, but I truly am spoiled by the Tag Completion
feature of Studio.

Any direction on this would be greatly appreciated.

Larry Juncker
Senior Cold Fusion Developer
Heartland Communications Group, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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CF studio and Ultradev

[Bruce Sorge]

I have just installed Ultradev 4.0. I had 1.0 and it is still installed on my system. 
My question is, I cannot find andwhere in Studio (5.0) where I can change my 
Dreamweaver Integration button from pointing to 1.0 to 4.0. I have also just went 
through the registry and I cannot find it there. Has anyone out there experienced the 
same issue, and if so, how did you resolve it, if at all?

Thanks,
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Re: ColdFusion extensions for Ultradev

[Massimo Foti]

"Peter Tilbrook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> I must be missing something - the URL perhaps!

It's in the signature, I will take note for next time to make it more
visible :-)))


Massimo Foti
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.massimocorner.com
Dreamweaver, Ultradev and Fireworks goodies

http://www.projectseven.com/viewer/snippets.htm
Snippets Panel



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Re: ColdFusion extensions for Ultradev

[Peter Tilbrook]

I must be missing something - the URL perhaps!
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ANN: ColdFusion extensions for Ultradev

[Massimo Foti]

It was quite a huge job but the final version of this toy is now available
on my website

It include 40+ Objects for CFML tags and makes working with Ultradev a lot
more
like using ColdFusion Studio



Massimo Foti
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.massimocorner.com
Dreamweaver, Ultradev and Fireworks goodies

http://www.projectseven.com/viewer/snippets.htm
Snippets Panel





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Re: ColdFusion 5 UltraDev 4 - what is it?

[Massimo Foti]

No Neil, Tom wasn't involved in Fairbanks & Pickford, trust me :-)

No offense, really, but MM has strict NDA covering beta programs, much
different than what Allaire used to do, maybe it could be to not talk too
much in public. Even mentioning code names is more than I am used to do.



Massimo Foti
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Team Macromedia Member




"Neil Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> hmm, maybe it was another Tom Muck, but I am sure it was a Tom Muck
working
> with DW Beta's.
>
> sorry, memory is not as god as it used to be!
>
> Neil
> Team Macromedia


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RE: ColdFusion 5 UltraDev 4 - what is it?

[Smith, Don , , WHS/PSD]

The design mode never worked for me ever.

Don

-Original Message-
From: Neil H. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 3:24 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: ColdFusion 5 UltraDev 4 - what is it?


Yes but since they removed the design mode they removed functionality and
instead you have to pay more for their bloated WYSIWYG editor.

Neil



- Original Message -
From: "Jeffry Houser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 1:02 PM
Subject: RE: ColdFusion 5 UltraDev 4 - what is it?


>   Not true.  CF Studio 5 is available stand-alone on the macromedia
> site.  They don't make it obvious though.
>
> At 10:12 AM 11/08/2001 +, you wrote:
> >It's both products
> >
> >Means you need to buy ultradev if you want studio
> >
> >Strange but true
> >Mark
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Tristram Charnley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: 08 November 2001 09:56
> >To: CF-Talk
> >Subject: ColdFusion 5 UltraDev 4 - what is it?
> >
> >
> >Has anyone been using ColdFusion 5 UltraDev 4  yet?
> >
> >I'm confused by the ridiculous moniker! Is this Studio 5 or is it
UltraDev?
> >
> >Apologies if this has already been a thread - but I've been off list for
a
> >while.
> >
> >Tristram Charnley
> >---
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 

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RE: ColdFusion 5 UltraDev 4 - what is it?

[Neil Clark]

hmm, maybe it was another Tom Muck, but I am sure it was a Tom Muck working
with DW Beta's.

sorry, memory is not as god as it used to be!

Neil
Team Macromedia
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Re: ColdFusion 5 UltraDev 4 - what is it?

[tom muck]

Fairbanks & Pickford Beta?  Not me.  You have the wrong Tom. ;-)

I get documents in all different formats -- mostly text-only or Word Perfect
documents that have bullets, bold, italics, and underlining.  Cut n paste
into the design tab works wonders for that, especially considering that i
only have about 30 minutes to convert a doc to HTML.

tom

"Neil Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Tom, if my memory serves me correctly you were involved in the Fairbanks &
> Pickford Beta programmes? Why are you using Cut n Paste for code? Surely
the
> Edit with DW is the option you should be utilising.


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RE: ColdFusion 5 UltraDev 4 - what is it?

[Neil Clark]

Tom, if my memory serves me correctly you were involved in the Fairbanks &
Pickford Beta programmes? Why are you using Cut n Paste for code? Surely the
Edit with DW is the option you should be utilising.

Neil
Team Macromedia

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Re: ColdFusion 5 UltraDev 4 - what is it?

[tom muck]

Unfortunately DW doesn't do the same thing that the design view of Homesite
and CFStudio did.  When you paste text into DW, all formatting is gone.
When you paste text into the design tab, the formatting is preserved.  I
have to keep Homesite 4.5 on my computer to be able to have this
functionality.  I absolutely hate the fact that they removed the
functionality from the program.

tom

"Neil Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Spot, on.  Dreamweaver is the tool for design and with Allaire and MM as
> one, there is no need for duplication.
>
> Neil
> Team Macromedia


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RE: ColdFusion 5 UltraDev 4 - what is it?

[Neil Clark]

Spot, on.  Dreamweaver is the tool for design and with Allaire and MM as
one, there is no need for duplication.

Neil
Team Macromedia

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RE: ColdFusion 5 UltraDev 4 - what is it?

[Aidan Whitehall]

> Yes but since they removed the design mode they removed functionality
> and instead you have to pay more for their bloated WYSIWYG editor.

I never used design, but from Macromedia's point of view, there probably
wouldn't be a good reason to duplicate functionality in two different
applications.

Plus, the general consensus was that design wasn't fantastic, so maybe they
figured there wouldn't be too many tears shed if it was dropped.


-- 
Aidan Whitehall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Macromedia ColdFusion Developer
Fairbanks Environmental +44 (0)1695 51775


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RE: Dreamweaver and Ultradev?

[Carlisle, Eric]

I went to a Macromedia free seminar earlier this week and asked if MM is
planning to do just that - an editor with Studio on the code side and DW on
the design side.  He couldn't comment about it (rightly so), but did say
that MM did do software integration when it was a good idea.  I'll be
eagerly anticipating "Homeweaver", "Dreamsite", or whatever they would call
such a product (IF they decide to go that route). :)~~~

Do sent an e-mail to wish-ultradev.  The MM guy at the seminar
encouraged people to do this at least half a dozen times.

EC



-Original Message-
From: Kevin Derby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 2:28 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Dreamweaver and Ultradev?


Dreamweaver (basically) creates HTML pages.  UltraDev, which piggy-backs on
top of Dreamweaver, lets you use DW to build CFML, ASP and JSP pages.
UltraDev is the replacement for the ASP tool Drumbeat.

On your second paragraph, it's an interesting concept.  Submit it to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Kevin

- Original Message -
From: "Nelson Winters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 9:48 AM
Subject: Dreamweaver and Ultradev?


> Can anyone explain the difference between Dreamweaver and Ultradev?
>
> Also on a separate note, how hard would it be for Macromedia to have an
> option in Dreamweaver/Ultradev to break up the screen like Homesite/CF
> Studio?  The ideal solution would be for the Design tab in HS/CFS which is
> pretty much useless, to invoke (for lack of a better word) Dreamweaver -
not
> as a separate app (like the little button currently does, but rather
within
> the HS/CFS environment.
>
> Nelson
>
>
>
>
>
> 

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Re: Dreamweaver and Ultradev?

[Kevin Derby]

Dreamweaver (basically) creates HTML pages.  UltraDev, which piggy-backs on
top of Dreamweaver, lets you use DW to build CFML, ASP and JSP pages.
UltraDev is the replacement for the ASP tool Drumbeat.

On your second paragraph, it's an interesting concept.  Submit it to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Kevin

- Original Message -
From: "Nelson Winters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 9:48 AM
Subject: Dreamweaver and Ultradev?


> Can anyone explain the difference between Dreamweaver and Ultradev?
>
> Also on a separate note, how hard would it be for Macromedia to have an
> option in Dreamweaver/Ultradev to break up the screen like Homesite/CF
> Studio?  The ideal solution would be for the Design tab in HS/CFS which is
> pretty much useless, to invoke (for lack of a better word) Dreamweaver -
not
> as a separate app (like the little button currently does, but rather
within
> the HS/CFS environment.
>
> Nelson
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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RE: Dreamweaver and Ultradev?

[Mike Craig]

Ultradev has build in data access and integrated (and customizable) server
behaviors that are preprogrammed to make your life a little easier.  I'm
sure there are other differences but to me those are key.

-Original Message-
From: Nelson Winters [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 12:48 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Dreamweaver and Ultradev?


Can anyone explain the difference between Dreamweaver and Ultradev?

Also on a separate note, how hard would it be for Macromedia to have an
option in Dreamweaver/Ultradev to break up the screen like Homesite/CF
Studio?  The ideal solution would be for the Design tab in HS/CFS which is
pretty much useless, to invoke (for lack of a better word) Dreamweaver - not
as a separate app (like the little button currently does, but rather within
the HS/CFS environment.

Nelson






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Dreamweaver and Ultradev?

[Nelson Winters]

Can anyone explain the difference between Dreamweaver and Ultradev?

Also on a separate note, how hard would it be for Macromedia to have an
option in Dreamweaver/Ultradev to break up the screen like Homesite/CF
Studio?  The ideal solution would be for the Design tab in HS/CFS which is
pretty much useless, to invoke (for lack of a better word) Dreamweaver - not
as a separate app (like the little button currently does, but rather within
the HS/CFS environment.

Nelson





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RE: CFStudio/UltraDev Development Setup

[Billy Cravens]

Sounds good to me.  In order to view CFM files in the browser, you do
have to set up your server mappings, in order for it to be parsed
through the ColdFusion engine.  CFAS only parses URL's, not physical
paths, so that's why you must have mappings.

---
Billy Cravens
Web Development, EDS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: Cornillon, Matthieu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 10:21 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: CFStudio/UltraDev Development Setup


Hi, everyone.  I am trying to set up a development environment with
ColdFusion Studio and Dreamweaver UltraDev.  Would someone mind telling
me whether my setup is crazy?
 
I have an NT 4.0 Server running IIS with a static IP address so that any
machine on our Intranet can see it.  In the D:\INETPUB\WWWROOT folder, I
have folders holding the two versions of the site:
 
mysite_local
mysite
 
In UltraDev, mysite_local is the local site, and mysite is the remote
site. It seems to work fine.
 
In ColdFusion Studio, I edit files in mysite, but in order to view
changes in the browse window, I have to set up remote development
settings.  I have these settings:
 
Studio Path: D:\INETPUB\WWWROOT\mysite_local
CF Server Path: D:\INETPUB\WWWROOT\mysite_local
Browser Path: http:\\127.0.0.1\mysite_local
 
With this setting, I am able to view changes in the browser window of
CFStudio.
 
Does this make sense?
 
Thanks for any advice anyone can give.
 
Matthieu Cornillon
 
 
 
 
 

Pfizer Information Center
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CFStudio/UltraDev Development Setup

[Cornillon, Matthieu]

Hi, everyone.  I am trying to set up a development environment with
ColdFusion Studio and Dreamweaver UltraDev.  Would someone mind telling me
whether my setup is crazy?
 
I have an NT 4.0 Server running IIS with a static IP address so that any
machine on our Intranet can see it.  In the D:\INETPUB\WWWROOT folder, I
have folders holding the two versions of the site:
 
mysite_local
mysite
 
In UltraDev, mysite_local is the local site, and mysite is the remote site.
It seems to work fine.
 
In ColdFusion Studio, I edit files in mysite, but in order to view changes
in the browse window, I have to set up remote development settings.  I have
these settings:
 
Studio Path: D:\INETPUB\WWWROOT\mysite_local
CF Server Path: D:\INETPUB\WWWROOT\mysite_local
Browser Path: http:\\127.0.0.1\mysite_local
 
With this setting, I am able to view changes in the browser window of
CFStudio.
 
Does this make sense?
 
Thanks for any advice anyone can give.
 
Matthieu Cornillon
 
 
 
 
 

Pfizer Information Center

 


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Re: Connecting to DSN at crystaltech torough Ultradev 4 on a MAC

[tom muck]

This is true, but in order to be able to access your databases from within
CFStudio or from within UltraDev, you need an RDS password.  This allows you
to view the tables and columns from the live database and be able to use
them to build your queries. If you have a local version of CF running, you
probably set your own RDS password.  When you install CF server, you are
given the option of using the same password for RDS as the CF administrator,
or a different password to be able to access data sources in CF Studio.

tom


"Brian Hogue" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> tom -
>
> Are we talking about the same thing?
>
> I know that all I do in CFquery is name, datasource, datatype, userid and
> password. CrystalTech hosts my application. When I test locally, my
CFqueries
> have name, datasource and datatype. Can you reconcile what you said
against what
> I just said? Thanks in advance.
>
> -brian
>
>
> tom muck wrote:
>
> > Yes, but to gain access thru RDS in CFStudio or UltraDev you need the
RDS
> > password.  I wonder how other people do it in a shared environment.
I've
> > always had my own server, so I set my own passwords.  They should be
able to
> > set a different password for RDS access thru Studio and UltraDev that
> > doesn't allow access to the administrator.
>



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Re: Connecting to DSN at crystaltech torough Ultradev 4 on a MAC

[tom muck]

Yes, but to gain access thru RDS in CFStudio or UltraDev you need the RDS
password.  I wonder how other people do it in a shared environment.  I've
always had my own server, so I set my own passwords.  They should be able to
set a different password for RDS access thru Studio and UltraDev that
doesn't allow access to the administrator.

tom

"Brian Hogue" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Max -
>
> I have a CF app at CT. Your Mac muddies the waters. As I recall, CT gave
me
> DSN, Userid and Password for my app. My local DSN is a different name. It
does
> not require Userid nor password.
>
> I put CT's information in my CFquery. I view the CT page in my browser. It
does
> the proper DB stuff.
>
> -brian
>



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RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!

[Eric Carlisle]

I have to agree with this, although MM has a pretty good text/WYSIWYG 
toggle in Ultradev...  One thing is for certain.  The "Design" mode in 
Homesite/ColdFusion Studio needs some work.  Maybe if that's where some of 
that really cool MM technology could be worked in.  As far as the edit mode 
goes in Studio, I say "good editor... STAY!" :)  That's where I do all my 
work.  I can't quite figure out how to write really sophisticated CF code 
in a WYSIWYG (or why I would want to ;) .

 Eric Carlisle
 CF Geek


At 03:02 PM 5/5/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Have to drop my viewpoint in on this as well just in Case MM is reading
>this. I have both UD and Studio available to me and I use Studio Edit Mode
>exclusively. So PLEASE PLEASE don't screw up Studio by trying to make it a
>Wizzy wig.
>
>Thanks.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Nathan Stanford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 8:35 AM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!
>
>
>I hope that is correct and my reason for worry is no more.  I also know that
>MM reads this list and wanted them to know how important it is to us as
>developers.
>
>
>Nathan Stanford
>Senior Programmer/Analyst
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Stephen Collins [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 9:05 PM
> > To:   CF-Talk
> > Subject:  RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!
> >
> > Interestingly, I can give a definitive answer on the subject...
> >
> > Adam Berrey, Macromedia VP of Application Server Business (ex-Allaire, and
> > apparently Allaire employee #10 in 1996) has been visiting Australia this
> > week and I took the opportunity to discuss with him a number of issues
> > relating to the future of CF and Spectra (which I can discuss offline if
> > anyone's interested).
> >
> > One announcement he did make was that very soon, UltraDev and CF Studio
> > would be packaged in the one box (NOT the one app) and sold as a bundle at
> > around the price of UD alone (kind of like the UD/Fireworks bundle).  This
> > announcement would appear to refer to just such a bundling.  The products
> > would remain available standalone for those not interested in the bundle.
> > Adam was VERY vehement about the fact that Macromedia UNDERSTANDS THE
> > SEPARATION between designer (not me, nor most of us on the list I imagine)
> > and coder (me, and you) and would continue to allow that separation to
> > exist, even if UD and Studio eventually became the one product - which has
> > not yet been decided.
> >
> > Rest easy.
> >
> > As for my $0.02, I use UD4 several times a week for layout work, as it
> > quite
> > happily sucks up my CF code and doesn't break it.  It's a great tool.
> > That
> > said, Studio remains my tool of choice for cutting CF code.
> >
> > Steve Collins
> >
>
~~
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Re: Difference between CFStudio and CF/UltraDev 4

[Massimo Foti]

"Waldo Smeets - UDzone.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3b1d2bb8
> > The other author would be Massimo Foti.
>
> Massimo was Tech Editor, the other author was Ray West. Great book by the
> way, check out www.basic-ultradev.com. It's the only Ultradev book
available
> that handles ColdFusion in Ultradev in a decent way.

Let me clarify a little bit :-)

Referring to the "book" Brian was talking about the ColdFusion/Ultradev
white paper, available from MM's website.
Tom was the author and I just provided a small quote together with a much
important one from our beloved Ben Forta.

The other "book" is:

Dreamweaver Ultradev : The Complete Reference
by Ray West, Tom Muck, Tom Allen
Paperback - 834 pages (February 2001)
Osborne McGraw-Hill
ISBN: 0072130172

The authors are listed above and I've got the pleasure of being the tech
editor

Cheers :-)


--

Massimo Foti
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


My own Corner of the web
http://www.massimocorner.com
Dreamweaver, Ultradev and Fireworks goodies

It should be this hole in the ozone layer
But I am not the coder I use to be...



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Re: Difference between CFStudio and CF/UltraDev 4

[tom muck]

If you purchase the Macromedia Cold Fusion 4.5 UltraDev 4 Studio you are
essentially getting two separate programs for the price of one.  There are
many advantages to using UltraDev that are too numerous to mention here.  In
short, if you want to increase your productivity, you should use both
programs.  UltraDev will give you visual editing of the pages while serving
live database content to the design environment.

tom

"Daniel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Checking out the two packages Cold Fusion 4.5.2 and Macromedia Cold Fusion
> 4.5 UltraDev 4 Studio.  Which one should I purchase?  What are the
> differences?
>
> thanks
>
> Dan Bogesdorfer
> Senior Analyst
> University Of Pittsburgh
>
>



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Beta version of file upload for Ultradev

[Massimo Foti]

http://www.massimocorner.com/beta/cf.htm

I know a lot of you don't like too much the way Ultradev wrote CFML code but
I think many are also missing the fact that you can customize almost
everything in Ultradev, including the way it writes the code...

Since a file upload capability is missing from the app, I am putting
together a solution writing a custom Server Behavior, it's still in beta but
is taking shape, the CFML code outputted is very much "Fusionesque", not the
ASP-like code used by Ultradev, so I hope somebody would be interested in
giving it a try :-)

The code may appear overkilling, but I really wanted to have a robust
solution especially since file upload, by itself, expose a lot of security
issues.

On the url above you may also subscribe to a small mailing list for people
that like to extend

Thanks


Massimo Foti
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


My own Corner of the web
http://www.massimocorner.com
Dreamweaver, Ultradev and Fireworks goodies

It should be this hole in the ozone layer
But I am not the coder I use to be...



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Can anyone recommend a good UltraDev Mailing List?

[John McKown]

We are just starting to adopt MM UltraDev here in the office to use
alongside CF Studio, and I was wondering if anyone knew of a good
Ultradev mailing list somewhere.  Preferably with a slant towards
CF coders.

John McKown
Delaware.Net, Inc.
30 Old Rudnick Lane, Suite 200
Dover, DE 19901
Local: 302-736-5515
Toll Free: 888-432-7965
Fax: 302-736-5945
Cellular: 302-423-0605
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.delaware.net



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RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging! [NOT QUITE]

[jwhatcott]

No need to worry.  Check out the tools section of the ColdFusion Server 5
release FAQ available at:
http://www.allaire.com/handlers/index.cfm?ID=20899.

Jeff Whatcott
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 1:51 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!


** Macromedia Representative **
Are you sure they are joining? My impression was that the article was
recommending both products? Remember that you can get integration with them
to make things kinda seamless. I didn't read the article as stating they
were becoming one product... but I could be mistaken.

===
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email   : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ UIN : 3679482

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda

> -Original Message-
> From: Nathan Stanford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 11:29 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!
>
>
>
> Read This:
> http://www.allaire.com/products/ColdFusion/productinformation/tools.cfm
>
> Nathan Stanford
> Senior Programmer/Analyst
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
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Re: ultradev STUDIO =)

[Massimo Foti]

Not out of the box, but the guys below are making an amazing job

http://www.interakt.ro/phakt/

Massimo


"Billy Cravens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Actually, UD doesn't do PHP yet.
..cfm?sidebar=lists



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Re: ultradev STUDIO =)

[tom muck]

"Billy Cravens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Actually, UD doesn't do PHP yet.
>


It does with the extensions from Interakt at www.interakt.ro/phakt.  The
server model is fairly complete, and other developers are also developing
PHP extensions to support the model.

tom




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Re: ultradev STUDIO =)

[Billy Cravens]

Actually, UD doesn't do PHP yet.

--
Billy Cravens
HR Web Development, Sabre
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


William Wheatley wrote:

> For the love of god dont make Ultradev to be STUDIO all in one, i like CF STUDIO 
>because it lets you have the flat text based editing and you can right click on any 
>tag and edit it..then ultradev is great for GRAPHIC development, though ultradev does 
>butcher some CF code if you drag and drop sometimes. I think that is due to the fact 
>that Ultradev is tryign to be an END all it does ASP, JSP, PHP & CF =) since you guys 
>own the company now maybe making UD focus more on CF first makign it perfect and then 
>get it to run all the other program next. But if you can get Ultradev to integrate 
>EVERYTHIGN about CF STUDIO (except the memory hogging, and the continous crashing) I 
>think it would be a great product, but you might want to do what allaire did, they 
>had HOMESITE, then to make CF STUDIO they just took HOMESITE and added some CF stuff 
>to it and walla!..
>
> Maybe take UD and add a CF MODE to it that opens a window like CF STUDIO to do text 
>based working?? I don tknow just dont forget about the CF RDS integration i hate 
>FTPing =)
>
> Thx thats my 2 cents i know you guys will get it right
>
> Bill Wheatley
> Director of Development
> Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer
> AEPS INC
> Allaire ColdFusion Consulting Partner
> www.aeps.com
> www.aeps2000.com
> 954-472-6684 X303
> ICQ: 417645
>
>
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Re: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!

[William Wheatley]

 UD is still harsh on your code (yese even with code rewriting off) it still
dupicates code sometimes when you copy and paste, and its a bitch getting my
web guys to be careful and not screw up the code, its the best i've seen at
reading CF code but its still has a little more to go but CF studio is
defiantly what i use more with maybe integrating the design tap to OPEN UD,
i use Studio more then UD so i would like to see that =)


Bill Wheatley
Director of Development
Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer
AEPS INC
Allaire ColdFusion Consulting Partner
www.aeps.com
www.aeps2000.com
954-472-6684 X303
ICQ: 417645



- Original Message -
From: "Al Musella, DPM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 6:48 PM
Subject: RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!


>
> I would love to see them combined. Add studio's code editor to the UD
> WYSIWYG editor - how can you beat that combination. Make it seemless to
> switch back and forth!  I never could get Studios design mode to work
right
> - just replace it with UD!
> Al
>
>
>
> At 03:02 PM 5/5/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >Have to drop my viewpoint in on this as well just in Case MM is reading
> >this. I have both UD and Studio available to me and I use Studio Edit
Mode
> >exclusively. So PLEASE PLEASE don't screw up Studio by trying to make it
a
> >Wizzy wig.
>
>
>
~~
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RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!

[Peter Tilbrook]

Yeah but even now UD just show little yellow bolts of lightning for
ColdFusion code.

-Original Message-
From: Al Musella, DPM [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, 6 May 2001 08:49
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!



I would love to see them combined. Add studio's code editor to the UD
WYSIWYG editor - how can you beat that combination. Make it seemless to
switch back and forth!  I never could get Studios design mode to work right
- just replace it with UD!
Al



At 03:02 PM 5/5/2001 -0700, you wrote:

>Have to drop my viewpoint in on this as well just in Case MM is reading
>this. I have both UD and Studio available to me and I use Studio Edit Mode
>exclusively. So PLEASE PLEASE don't screw up Studio by trying to make it a
>Wizzy wig.
~~
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Re: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging

[Jon Hall]

Set Studio as your external code editor and press ctrl-e

jon
- Original Message -
From: "Jon Dunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!


> ABSOLUTELY
> jd
>
> > From: "Al Musella, DPM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 18:48:53 -0400
> > To: CF-Talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!
> >
> >
> > I would love to see them combined. Add studio's code editor to the UD
> > WYSIWYG editor - how can you beat that combination. Make it seemless to
> > switch back and forth!  I never could get Studios design mode to work
right
> > - just replace it with UD!
> > Al
> >
> >
> >
> > At 03:02 PM 5/5/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> >> Have to drop my viewpoint in on this as well just in Case MM is reading
> >> this. I have both UD and Studio available to me and I use Studio Edit
Mode
> >> exclusively. So PLEASE PLEASE don't screw up Studio by trying to make
it a
> >> Wizzy wig.
> >
> >
> >
>
~~
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Re: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!

[Jon Dunn]

ABSOLUTELY 
jd

> From: "Al Musella, DPM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 18:48:53 -0400
> To: CF-Talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!
> 
> 
> I would love to see them combined. Add studio's code editor to the UD
> WYSIWYG editor - how can you beat that combination. Make it seemless to
> switch back and forth!  I never could get Studios design mode to work right
> - just replace it with UD!
> Al
> 
> 
> 
> At 03:02 PM 5/5/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> 
>> Have to drop my viewpoint in on this as well just in Case MM is reading
>> this. I have both UD and Studio available to me and I use Studio Edit Mode
>> exclusively. So PLEASE PLEASE don't screw up Studio by trying to make it a
>> Wizzy wig.
> 
> 
>
~~
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RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!

[Al Musella, DPM]

I would love to see them combined. Add studio's code editor to the UD 
WYSIWYG editor - how can you beat that combination. Make it seemless to 
switch back and forth!  I never could get Studios design mode to work right 
- just replace it with UD!
Al



At 03:02 PM 5/5/2001 -0700, you wrote:

>Have to drop my viewpoint in on this as well just in Case MM is reading
>this. I have both UD and Studio available to me and I use Studio Edit Mode
>exclusively. So PLEASE PLEASE don't screw up Studio by trying to make it a
>Wizzy wig.


~~
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RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!

[Jason]

Have to drop my viewpoint in on this as well just in Case MM is reading
this. I have both UD and Studio available to me and I use Studio Edit Mode
exclusively. So PLEASE PLEASE don't screw up Studio by trying to make it a
Wizzy wig.

Thanks.

-Original Message-
From: Nathan Stanford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 8:35 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!


I hope that is correct and my reason for worry is no more.  I also know that
MM reads this list and wanted them to know how important it is to us as
developers.


Nathan Stanford
Senior Programmer/Analyst
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


> -Original Message-
> From: Stephen Collins [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 9:05 PM
> To:   CF-Talk
> Subject:  RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!
>
> Interestingly, I can give a definitive answer on the subject...
>
> Adam Berrey, Macromedia VP of Application Server Business (ex-Allaire, and
> apparently Allaire employee #10 in 1996) has been visiting Australia this
> week and I took the opportunity to discuss with him a number of issues
> relating to the future of CF and Spectra (which I can discuss offline if
> anyone's interested).
>
> One announcement he did make was that very soon, UltraDev and CF Studio
> would be packaged in the one box (NOT the one app) and sold as a bundle at
> around the price of UD alone (kind of like the UD/Fireworks bundle).  This
> announcement would appear to refer to just such a bundling.  The products
> would remain available standalone for those not interested in the bundle.
> Adam was VERY vehement about the fact that Macromedia UNDERSTANDS THE
> SEPARATION between designer (not me, nor most of us on the list I imagine)
> and coder (me, and you) and would continue to allow that separation to
> exist, even if UD and Studio eventually became the one product - which has
> not yet been decided.
>
> Rest easy.
>
> As for my $0.02, I use UD4 several times a week for layout work, as it
> quite
> happily sucks up my CF code and doesn't break it.  It's a great tool.
> That
> said, Studio remains my tool of choice for cutting CF code.
>
> Steve Collins
>
~~
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ultradev STUDIO =)

[William Wheatley]

For the love of god dont make Ultradev to be STUDIO all in one, i like CF STUDIO 
because it lets you have the flat text based editing and you can right click on any 
tag and edit it..then ultradev is great for GRAPHIC development, though ultradev does 
butcher some CF code if you drag and drop sometimes. I think that is due to the fact 
that Ultradev is tryign to be an END all it does ASP, JSP, PHP & CF =) since you guys 
own the company now maybe making UD focus more on CF first makign it perfect and then 
get it to run all the other program next. But if you can get Ultradev to integrate 
EVERYTHIGN about CF STUDIO (except the memory hogging, and the continous crashing) I 
think it would be a great product, but you might want to do what allaire did, they had 
HOMESITE, then to make CF STUDIO they just took HOMESITE and added some CF stuff to it 
and walla!..

Maybe take UD and add a CF MODE to it that opens a window like CF STUDIO to do text 
based working?? I don tknow just dont forget about the CF RDS integration i hate 
FTPing =)

Thx thats my 2 cents i know you guys will get it right


Bill Wheatley
Director of Development
Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer
AEPS INC
Allaire ColdFusion Consulting Partner
www.aeps.com
www.aeps2000.com
954-472-6684 X303
ICQ: 417645





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RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!

[John Dowdell]

At 9:15 PM 5/3/1, Michael Kear wrote:
> Anyway, unless we have some input to Macromedia, we'll end up
> with a Studio that looks like Ultradev.

As noted previously, this is understood, but if you'd still like to drive
it home, then [EMAIL PROTECTED] would directly reach
the in-boxes of the integration team, thanks. (There are also
product-specific addresses too, but this top-level address reaches general
execs as well.)

For the thread itself, yup, it's a bundle... if you see a way that the web
page is unclear then a note to the product wishlist would route it
directly, thanks.

(btw, we don't have a cafeteria, although the lavatories *do* have adequate
head height ;-)

jd





John Dowdell, Macromedia Tech Support, San Francisco CA US
Search technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/
Offlist email risks capture by the spam filters. I may not see your
email if it's not on the list. Private one-on-one email options are
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UltraDev Conversion

[Brian Thornton]

Anyone got UltraDev info for a CF guy? I need to convert a site


.Brian


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RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!

[Nathan Stanford]

I hope that is correct and my reason for worry is no more.  I also know that
MM reads this list and wanted them to know how important it is to us as
developers.


Nathan Stanford
Senior Programmer/Analyst
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


> -Original Message-
> From: Stephen Collins [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 9:05 PM
> To:   CF-Talk
> Subject:  RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!
> 
> Interestingly, I can give a definitive answer on the subject...
> 
> Adam Berrey, Macromedia VP of Application Server Business (ex-Allaire, and
> apparently Allaire employee #10 in 1996) has been visiting Australia this
> week and I took the opportunity to discuss with him a number of issues
> relating to the future of CF and Spectra (which I can discuss offline if
> anyone's interested).
> 
> One announcement he did make was that very soon, UltraDev and CF Studio
> would be packaged in the one box (NOT the one app) and sold as a bundle at
> around the price of UD alone (kind of like the UD/Fireworks bundle).  This
> announcement would appear to refer to just such a bundling.  The products
> would remain available standalone for those not interested in the bundle.
> Adam was VERY vehement about the fact that Macromedia UNDERSTANDS THE
> SEPARATION between designer (not me, nor most of us on the list I imagine)
> and coder (me, and you) and would continue to allow that separation to
> exist, even if UD and Studio eventually became the one product - which has
> not yet been decided.
> 
> Rest easy.
> 
> As for my $0.02, I use UD4 several times a week for layout work, as it
> quite
> happily sucks up my CF code and doesn't break it.  It's a great tool.
> That
> said, Studio remains my tool of choice for cutting CF code.
> 
> Steve Collins
>
~~
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RE: Ultradev & Studio

[Mark W. Breneman]

Thank you Rich,

I find it some what funny that a company like MM/A, with as much experience
as they have, posts ultra vague descriptions of bundling ColdFusion Studio
with UltraDev.

And Us on this list panic about "loosing" our favorite tool.  What was MM/A
thinking?

I am in favor of closer integration of the two tools... as long as I can
have a stand alone ColdFusion Studio.  I would really hate to see MM/A start
making M$ type products.  Once you start using one M$ tool you have to buy
another to work with the first tool etc...  Kinda reminds me of a quote from
yoda, "once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your
destiny."

My $.02 worth

Mark W. Breneman
-Cold Fusion Developer
-Network Administrator
  Vivid Media
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.vividmedia.com
  608.270.9770



-Original Message-
From: ibtoad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 8:52 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Ultradev & Studio


This is from the Allaire website:

 Is the long-term plan to combine ColdFusion Studio and UltraDev?

We plan to continue to bundle ColdFusion Studio with UltraDev as we are with
ColdFusion 4.5 UltraDev 4 Studio and over time more closely integrate these
products. Our mission is to listen to users and build great tools for
ColdFusion developers. We recognize that different developers have different
needs, and that neither exceptional visual development tools nor superb
code-based development will solve the needs of all developers. As such, we
are firmly committed to improving the development experience for both.

That should clear up this discussion a little,
Rich

-Original Message-
From: Sean Renet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 7:39 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Ultradev & Studio


Well, the returned record sets for stored procedures that you get in
UltraDev would be a nice addition to Studio.
- Original Message -
From: "Peter Tilbrook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 11:20 PM
Subject: RE: Ultradev & Studio


> Mark, I'm inclined to agree with you. Dreamweaver for all intent and
> purposes is a fine product for the "visual" web designer. As far as code
> development goes it just doesn't cut it - which is why I imagine they ship
> HomeSite with Dreamweaver for code cutting purposes.
>
> ColdFusion Studio - at least version 4.5.2 SP2 - is a fine product,
finally.
> Admittedly I am still running 4.0 until I get the time to install the
latest
> release. 4.0 does not save files as zero bytes which later version did
> regularly.
>
> Rather than merge a product like Studio/HomeSite into UltraDev (expensive
> product is UltraDev for what it claims to do) update CF Studio 4.5.1
to
> include new CF5.0 support. After all these years the 4.5 product is now
> totally indespensible. If it aint broke dont fix it!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Terrill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, 4 May 2001 13:14
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Ultradev & Studio
>
>
> Our CFUG had a macromedia rep come talk to us the other night. apparently
> ultradev & studio are being merged into ONE product...ie the code window
of
> ultradev will be like studio
>
> personally I think that this is the worst possible decision that
macromedia
> could possibly make. they may like their trippy looking ultradev
> product...but a vast populace of cf'ers don't. when the macromedia guy
told
> us of this product merge, he suddenly had a roomful of *extremely* irate
> programmers. whatever macromedia does, they shouldn't wreck the good
> relationship that allaire built up with us at ground level. leave bloody
> ultradev to the graphic designers and leave us in peace with our
intimitely
> favourite memory chewing dev tool.
>
>
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
>
>
>
~~
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RE: Ultradev & Studio

[ibtoad]

This is from the Allaire website:

 Is the long-term plan to combine ColdFusion Studio and UltraDev?

We plan to continue to bundle ColdFusion Studio with UltraDev as we are with
ColdFusion 4.5 UltraDev 4 Studio and over time more closely integrate these
products. Our mission is to listen to users and build great tools for
ColdFusion developers. We recognize that different developers have different
needs, and that neither exceptional visual development tools nor superb
code-based development will solve the needs of all developers. As such, we
are firmly committed to improving the development experience for both.

That should clear up this discussion a little,
Rich

-Original Message-
From: Sean Renet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 7:39 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Ultradev & Studio


Well, the returned record sets for stored procedures that you get in
UltraDev would be a nice addition to Studio.
- Original Message -
From: "Peter Tilbrook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 11:20 PM
Subject: RE: Ultradev & Studio


> Mark, I'm inclined to agree with you. Dreamweaver for all intent and
> purposes is a fine product for the "visual" web designer. As far as code
> development goes it just doesn't cut it - which is why I imagine they ship
> HomeSite with Dreamweaver for code cutting purposes.
>
> ColdFusion Studio - at least version 4.5.2 SP2 - is a fine product,
finally.
> Admittedly I am still running 4.0 until I get the time to install the
latest
> release. 4.0 does not save files as zero bytes which later version did
> regularly.
>
> Rather than merge a product like Studio/HomeSite into UltraDev (expensive
> product is UltraDev for what it claims to do) update CF Studio 4.5.1
to
> include new CF5.0 support. After all these years the 4.5 product is now
> totally indespensible. If it aint broke dont fix it!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Terrill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, 4 May 2001 13:14
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Ultradev & Studio
>
>
> Our CFUG had a macromedia rep come talk to us the other night. apparently
> ultradev & studio are being merged into ONE product...ie the code window
of
> ultradev will be like studio
>
> personally I think that this is the worst possible decision that
macromedia
> could possibly make. they may like their trippy looking ultradev
> product...but a vast populace of cf'ers don't. when the macromedia guy
told
> us of this product merge, he suddenly had a roomful of *extremely* irate
> programmers. whatever macromedia does, they shouldn't wreck the good
> relationship that allaire built up with us at ground level. leave bloody
> ultradev to the graphic designers and leave us in peace with our
intimitely
> favourite memory chewing dev tool.
>
>
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
>
>
>
~~
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http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm

Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/
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Re: Ultradev & Studio

[Sean Renet]

Well, the returned record sets for stored procedures that you get in
UltraDev would be a nice addition to Studio.
- Original Message -
From: "Peter Tilbrook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 11:20 PM
Subject: RE: Ultradev & Studio


> Mark, I'm inclined to agree with you. Dreamweaver for all intent and
> purposes is a fine product for the "visual" web designer. As far as code
> development goes it just doesn't cut it - which is why I imagine they ship
> HomeSite with Dreamweaver for code cutting purposes.
>
> ColdFusion Studio - at least version 4.5.2 SP2 - is a fine product,
finally.
> Admittedly I am still running 4.0 until I get the time to install the
latest
> release. 4.0 does not save files as zero bytes which later version did
> regularly.
>
> Rather than merge a product like Studio/HomeSite into UltraDev (expensive
> product is UltraDev for what it claims to do) update CF Studio 4.5.1
to
> include new CF5.0 support. After all these years the 4.5 product is now
> totally indespensible. If it aint broke dont fix it!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Terrill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, 4 May 2001 13:14
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Ultradev & Studio
>
>
> Our CFUG had a macromedia rep come talk to us the other night. apparently
> ultradev & studio are being merged into ONE product...ie the code window
of
> ultradev will be like studio
>
> personally I think that this is the worst possible decision that
macromedia
> could possibly make. they may like their trippy looking ultradev
> product...but a vast populace of cf'ers don't. when the macromedia guy
told
> us of this product merge, he suddenly had a roomful of *extremely* irate
> programmers. whatever macromedia does, they shouldn't wreck the good
> relationship that allaire built up with us at ground level. leave bloody
> ultradev to the graphic designers and leave us in peace with our
intimitely
> favourite memory chewing dev tool.
>
>
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
>
>
>
~~
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http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm

Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/
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Re: Ultradev & Studio

[Dave Hannum]

MM has already announced that there will be one more version of Studio which
will come out sometime after the release of CF 5.0 Server.  Then I thought
they said they're looking to create an UltraDev/CFStudio/JRunStudio tool
since CF 6.0 will run on the JRun platform.  Did anyone else understand
that?  To me, it makes sense.  I imagine it will be a bit pricier, but man,
what a powerful tool that would be.  I'm not a WYSIWYG guy, and I love
Studio just the way it is, but if Fireworks is bundled in like it is with UD
now, and the Flash tools UD and the next Studio (Harpoon) have, seems like
the perfect fit to me.

Dave

- Original Message -
From: "Peter Tilbrook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 2:20 AM
Subject: RE: Ultradev & Studio


Mark, I'm inclined to agree with you. Dreamweaver for all intent and
purposes is a fine product for the "visual" web designer. As far as code
development goes it just doesn't cut it - which is why I imagine they ship
HomeSite with Dreamweaver for code cutting purposes.

ColdFusion Studio - at least version 4.5.2 SP2 - is a fine product, finally.
Admittedly I am still running 4.0 until I get the time to install the latest
release. 4.0 does not save files as zero bytes which later version did
regularly.

Rather than merge a product like Studio/HomeSite into UltraDev (expensive
product is UltraDev for what it claims to do) update CF Studio 4.5.1 to
include new CF5.0 support. After all these years the 4.5 product is now
totally indespensible. If it aint broke dont fix it!

-Original Message-
From: Mark Terrill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, 4 May 2001 13:14
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Ultradev & Studio


Our CFUG had a macromedia rep come talk to us the other night. apparently
ultradev & studio are being merged into ONE product...ie the code window of
ultradev will be like studio

personally I think that this is the worst possible decision that macromedia
could possibly make. they may like their trippy looking ultradev
product...but a vast populace of cf'ers don't. when the macromedia guy told
us of this product merge, he suddenly had a roomful of *extremely* irate
programmers. whatever macromedia does, they shouldn't wreck the good
relationship that allaire built up with us at ground level. leave bloody
ultradev to the graphic designers and leave us in peace with our intimitely
favourite memory chewing dev tool.


Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
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RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!

[Thomas Chiverton]

Merging ? Nah.
The're selling them together, and setting studio up as the default external
editor in UltraDev.

Like I already have :-)
 

~~
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Re: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!

[Zac]

Kevin Lynch wrote:

> That's right, both ColdFusion Studio and UltraDev continue to be
> available as separate products. If you like, you can buy them
> together in a studio bundle at a lower price.

Any chance we can get a long term commitment from Macromedia to ensure that
Studio stays a separate and distinct product and doesn't get merged in
UD/DW?



-- 

Any fool can tell the truth, but it requires a man of some sense to know
how to lie well.

Samuel Butler 


email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.pixelgeek.com/


~~
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RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!

[Peter Tilbrook]

Lower than AUD$2,000.00?

I'd buy that for a dollar!

-Original Message-
From: Kevin Lynch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, 4 May 2001 15:03
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!


Hi-

That's right, both ColdFusion Studio and UltraDev continue to be
available as separate products. If you like, you can buy them
together in a studio bundle at a lower price.

There's a FAQ that Jeff Whatcott put together at:
http://www.allaire.com/handlers/index.cfm?ID=20899#2201

thanks

Kevin

At 2:37 PM -0700 5/3/01, Erika Walker wrote:
>I don't think they are talking about merging the two products as
>onethey are just talking about using them together side-by-side.
>
>Re-read that page one more time. It took me a couple just to be
>sure, and besides, I already have the UltraDev they are talking
>about. The product has a lot of tools built into it to make
>developing with ColdFusion easier for beginners, etc.
>
>Don't Panic!! No more panicking!!
>
>Cheers,
>Erika
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: Costas Piliotis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 10:22:17 -0700
>
>>Hey Macromedia...
>>
>>I know someone is out there listening...
>>
>>Most CF developers like Studio.  Most like it a lot.
>>
>>VERY BAD MOVE.  Talk about giving it to CF developers where it hurts.
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Nathan Stanford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 8:29 AM
>>To: CF-Talk
>>Subject: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!
>>
>>
>>
>>Read This:
>>http://www.allaire.com/products/ColdFusion/productinformation/tools.cfm
>>
>>Nathan Stanford
>>Senior Programmer/Analyst
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>
~~
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RE: Ultradev & Studio

[Peter Tilbrook]

Mark, I'm inclined to agree with you. Dreamweaver for all intent and
purposes is a fine product for the "visual" web designer. As far as code
development goes it just doesn't cut it - which is why I imagine they ship
HomeSite with Dreamweaver for code cutting purposes.

ColdFusion Studio - at least version 4.5.2 SP2 - is a fine product, finally.
Admittedly I am still running 4.0 until I get the time to install the latest
release. 4.0 does not save files as zero bytes which later version did
regularly.

Rather than merge a product like Studio/HomeSite into UltraDev (expensive
product is UltraDev for what it claims to do) update CF Studio 4.5.1 to
include new CF5.0 support. After all these years the 4.5 product is now
totally indespensible. If it aint broke dont fix it!

-Original Message-
From: Mark Terrill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, 4 May 2001 13:14
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Ultradev & Studio


Our CFUG had a macromedia rep come talk to us the other night. apparently
ultradev & studio are being merged into ONE product...ie the code window of
ultradev will be like studio

personally I think that this is the worst possible decision that macromedia
could possibly make. they may like their trippy looking ultradev
product...but a vast populace of cf'ers don't. when the macromedia guy told
us of this product merge, he suddenly had a roomful of *extremely* irate
programmers. whatever macromedia does, they shouldn't wreck the good
relationship that allaire built up with us at ground level. leave bloody
ultradev to the graphic designers and leave us in peace with our intimitely
favourite memory chewing dev tool.


Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists


~~
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RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!

[Michael Kear]

You would prefer that only "good" news comes out?  The best way to avoid
getting bad news about anything is not to look, sit in the closet with
your hands over your ears and your eyes tightly shut.

For most things what's "bad news" for someone is "Good news" for someone
else.

For myself, I'd rather know what's going on good or bad.

Cheers,
Mike Kear
AFP Webworks
Windsor, NSW, Australia


On Thu, 3 May 2001, ibtoad wrote:

> Why must we keep getting bad news from MM???
>
> Rich
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Terry Bader [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 1:32 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!
>
>
> NNOOO
>
>
>   Terry Bader
>   IT/Web Specialist
>   Macromedia Certified Coldfusion Developer
>   EDO Corp - Combat Systems
>   (757) 424-1004 ext 361 - Work
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>   (757)581-5981 - Mobile
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   icq: 5202487   aim: lv2bounce
>   http://www.cs.odu.edu/~bader
>
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Nathan Stanford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 11:29 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!
> >
> >
> >
> > Read This:
> > http://www.allaire.com/products/ColdFusion/productinformation/
> > tools.cfm
> >
> > Nathan Stanford
> > Senior Programmer/Analyst
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
>
~~
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http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm

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RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!

[Kevin Lynch]

Hi-

That's right, both ColdFusion Studio and UltraDev continue to be 
available as separate products. If you like, you can buy them 
together in a studio bundle at a lower price.

There's a FAQ that Jeff Whatcott put together at: 
http://www.allaire.com/handlers/index.cfm?ID=20899#2201

thanks

Kevin

At 2:37 PM -0700 5/3/01, Erika Walker wrote:
>I don't think they are talking about merging the two products as 
>onethey are just talking about using them together side-by-side.
>
>Re-read that page one more time. It took me a couple just to be 
>sure, and besides, I already have the UltraDev they are talking 
>about. The product has a lot of tools built into it to make 
>developing with ColdFusion easier for beginners, etc.
>
>Don't Panic!! No more panicking!!
>
>Cheers,
>Erika
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: Costas Piliotis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 10:22:17 -0700
>
>>Hey Macromedia...
>>
>>I know someone is out there listening...
>>
>>Most CF developers like Studio.  Most like it a lot.
>>
>>VERY BAD MOVE.  Talk about giving it to CF developers where it hurts.
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Nathan Stanford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 8:29 AM
>>To: CF-Talk
>>Subject: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!
>>
>>
>>
>>Read This:
>>http://www.allaire.com/products/ColdFusion/productinformation/tools.cfm
>>
>>Nathan Stanford
>>Senior Programmer/Analyst
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>
~~
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RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!

[Michael Kear]

I think we should check out their cafeteria too.  Cos if they have awful
pineapple donuts there I want to try to stop that too.

Good post Andrew! 

CHeers,
Mike Kear
AFP Webworks.
Windsor, NSW, Australia


On Thu, 3 May 2001, Andrew Tyrone wrote:

> My opinion is, the uprising worked for the Hosting Edition elimination (maybe...), 
>but now everyone wants to re-design the logo and tell Macromedia how to package the 
>products.  How about we have a thorough inspection of the restrooms at the corporate 
>headquarters; they might not have the right ceiling tile, or maybe they have those 
>faucets that shut off if you don't keep your hands under them long enough... OR... 
>*gasp* maybe the urinals don't have the right brand of deodorizers in them!
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Stephen Moretti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 1:34 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!
> >
> >
> > I'll say what I just said on the UK CFUG dev/chat list.
> >
> > >
> > > Read This:
> > > http://www.allaire.com/products/ColdFusion/productinformation/tools.cfm
> > >
> >
> > No where in that article does it say that it is one product.
> >
> > They are just packaged together in one box.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> >
>
~~
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RE: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!

[Michael Kear]

Yes it is only a bundling of CF Studio and Ultradev together.But
unless we all speak up loud, this will be the trend .. Macromedia's view
of the world is the Dreamweaver/Ultradev vision.  Where is you want to do
what the  evangelist does in the demos, you're in clover.  But since in 30
years in IT I've never once had to produce what they do in the demos I'm
not overly impressed by the demos in the launch.  I find myself sitting
there watching the evangelist guy zipping round the software saying how
easy it is to do this or that, thinking, "yes . but since he's picked the
examples to suit himself, what *ISN'T* he showing us?"

Anyway, unless we have some input to Macromedia, we'll end up with a
Studio that looks like Ultradev.

And I"ve never been able to make that work satisfactorily for CF coding -
only for making html pages.

Cheers,
Mike Kear
AFP Webworks
Windsor, NSW, Australia



On Thu, 3 May 2001, Raymond Camden wrote:

> ** Macromedia Representative **
> Are you sure they are joining? My impression was that the article was
> recommending both products? Remember that you can get integration with them
> to make things kinda seamless. I didn't read the article as stating they
> were becoming one product... but I could be mistaken.
>
> ===
> Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia
>
> Email   : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ICQ UIN : 3679482
>
> "My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Nathan Stanford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 11:29 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: CF Studio and UltraDev Merging!
> >
> >
> >
> > Read This:
> > http://www.allaire.com/products/ColdFusion/productinformation/tools.cfm
> >
> > Nathan Stanford
> > Senior Programmer/Analyst
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
>
~~
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