[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Barry, My first reaction, what date is it again oh wow its past April 1st:-) My second reaction, after I picked myself of the floor, that is a very bold and very strategic move by Adobe on this. My thoughts are that it would be to compete with Blend / WPF / silverlight or whatever they damn call it these days. But what a move... Please pinch me when they do this for CF *lol* But to be honest I think that even though Flex has a strong following, people are really adopting open source even more and this would be a great example of a product that will endeavour to survive past its due date, if there ever was one:-) And people are going to feel like they are shaping its future, as well as getting bug fixes released quickly. Great move Adobe, absolutely fantastic is all I can say. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie Sent: Thursday, 26 April 2007 3:55 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd] So, Flex has been open-sourced... http://www.onflex.org/ted/2007/04/flex-goes-open-source-mpl.php what's it mean for us CF people? thoughts? b --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Commercial data list of aus suburbs postcodes etc
Yep we are using the one from aussie post cost 1600 bucks by memory gives you a number of different styles of sql.. our table structure is recordid authorityid stateid name featurecode status postcode conciseGazettr Longitude Latitude map100k but yep beware there there are certain suburbs that share a single postcode! On Apr 24, 4:41 pm, Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When you do, watch out for the fact that there are some places with two postcodes. For example there is a postcode 1647 which is St Leonards, but only for POBoxes. (from memory - dont have my postcode file here with me now). Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworkshttp://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On 4/24/07, Jason Bayly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks scott, I knew there was something floating around :) --- Jason Bayly Newgency Pty Ltd http://www.newgency.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Ok here's my take... It's really not unexpected. The SDK source was provided from day one, this at least makes it official. No more concerns about IP when building custom components. From a Coldfusion perspective? Learn Flex / Actionscript as of yesterday. There's going to be an explosion in the number of sexy drag and drop UI components. Coldfusion front ends in html are going to seem ho hum at best. (Even if they are uber cool ajax/dhtml). I see Coldfusion server sales picking up as Flex/AS3 cuts into php, asp, other markets. This is a natural flow on from a bigger slice of the web technology pie that Adobe will reap. New functionality will focus on server side integration eg email and database servers not front end. Front end = Flex / Flash. CF may continue to have a role in document management ie, search engine safe but I seriously doubt that this one wont be better handled via Flex/AS interfaces as well. Interesting to see how Adobe works in pdf handling. Flex Data Services / Live Cycle Data Services will be the bridge between CF and Flex more so than today. Don't even get me started on how Apollo will change things. I suspect that it will be open sourced as well. While I would like CF to be open source I don't see it going that way. Sorry Andrew :) CF will continue on, bigger market share but more enterprise back end in nature. How's that? Angus On 26/04/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Barry, My first reaction, what date is it again oh wow its past April 1st:-) My second reaction, after I picked myself of the floor, that is a very bold and very strategic move by Adobe on this. My thoughts are that it would be to compete with Blend / WPF / silverlight or whatever they damn call it these days. But what a move... Please pinch me when they do this for CF *lol* But to be honest I think that even though Flex has a strong following, people are really adopting open source even more and this would be a great example of a product that will endeavour to survive past its due date, if there ever was one:-) And people are going to feel like they are shaping its future, as well as getting bug fixes released quickly. Great move Adobe, absolutely fantastic is all I can say. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone:+613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie Sent: Thursday, 26 April 2007 3:55 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd] So, Flex has been open-sourced... http://www.onflex.org/ted/2007/04/flex-goes-open-source-mpl.php what's it mean for us CF people? thoughts? b --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Angus You're quite correct about a relationship between Flex and ColdFusion sales. I interviewed Tim Buntel at MAX last year for BuilderAU and he told me then that CF sales had been helped by Flex. Scorpio will offer even better Flex support so if you're building frontends in Flex and you want to connect to data one easy choice will be ColdFusion. Andrew On 26/04/07, Angus Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok here's my take... It's really not unexpected. The SDK source was provided from day one, this at least makes it official. No more concerns about IP when building custom components. From a Coldfusion perspective? Learn Flex / Actionscript as of yesterday. There's going to be an explosion in the number of sexy drag and drop UI components. Coldfusion front ends in html are going to seem ho hum at best. (Even if they are uber cool ajax/dhtml). I see Coldfusion server sales picking up as Flex/AS3 cuts into php, asp, other markets. This is a natural flow on from a bigger slice of the web technology pie that Adobe will reap. New functionality will focus on server side integration eg email and database servers not front end. Front end = Flex / Flash. CF may continue to have a role in document management ie, search engine safe but I seriously doubt that this one wont be better handled via Flex/AS interfaces as well. Interesting to see how Adobe works in pdf handling. Flex Data Services / Live Cycle Data Services will be the bridge between CF and Flex more so than today. Don't even get me started on how Apollo will change things. I suspect that it will be open sourced as well. While I would like CF to be open source I don't see it going that way. Sorry Andrew :) CF will continue on, bigger market share but more enterprise back end in nature. How's that? Angus On 26/04/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Barry, My first reaction, what date is it again oh wow its past April 1st:-) My second reaction, after I picked myself of the floor, that is a very bold and very strategic move by Adobe on this. My thoughts are that it would be to compete with Blend / WPF / silverlight or whatever they damn call it these days. But what a move... Please pinch me when they do this for CF *lol* But to be honest I think that even though Flex has a strong following, people are really adopting open source even more and this would be a great example of a product that will endeavour to survive past its due date, if there ever was one:-) And people are going to feel like they are shaping its future, as well as getting bug fixes released quickly. Great move Adobe, absolutely fantastic is all I can say. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone:+613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie Sent: Thursday, 26 April 2007 3:55 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd] So, Flex has been open-sourced... http://www.onflex.org/ted/2007/04/flex-goes-open-source-mpl.php what's it mean for us CF people? thoughts? b -- --- Andrew Muller http://www.webqem.com linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/151/905 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
You're right Andrew. Not all the source was available, rpc for one. Also you can't currently recompile the framework if you want to strip out debug for instance. so i guess we'll be able to do that soon. On 26/04/07, Andrew Muller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Angus You're quite correct about a relationship between Flex and ColdFusion sales. I interviewed Tim Buntel at MAX last year for BuilderAU and he told me then that CF sales had been helped by Flex. Scorpio will offer even better Flex support so if you're building frontends in Flex and you want to connect to data one easy choice will be ColdFusion. Andrew On 26/04/07, Angus Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok here's my take... It's really not unexpected. The SDK source was provided from day one, this at least makes it official. No more concerns about IP when building custom components. From a Coldfusion perspective? Learn Flex / Actionscript as of yesterday. There's going to be an explosion in the number of sexy drag and drop UI components. Coldfusion front ends in html are going to seem ho hum at best. (Even if they are uber cool ajax/dhtml). I see Coldfusion server sales picking up as Flex/AS3 cuts into php, asp, other markets. This is a natural flow on from a bigger slice of the web technology pie that Adobe will reap. New functionality will focus on server side integration eg email and database servers not front end. Front end = Flex / Flash. CF may continue to have a role in document management ie, search engine safe but I seriously doubt that this one wont be better handled via Flex/AS interfaces as well. Interesting to see how Adobe works in pdf handling. Flex Data Services / Live Cycle Data Services will be the bridge between CF and Flex more so than today. Don't even get me started on how Apollo will change things. I suspect that it will be open sourced as well. While I would like CF to be open source I don't see it going that way. Sorry Andrew :) CF will continue on, bigger market share but more enterprise back end in nature. How's that? Angus On 26/04/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Barry, My first reaction, what date is it again oh wow its past April 1st:-) My second reaction, after I picked myself of the floor, that is a very bold and very strategic move by Adobe on this. My thoughts are that it would be to compete with Blend / WPF / silverlight or whatever they damn call it these days. But what a move... Please pinch me when they do this for CF *lol* But to be honest I think that even though Flex has a strong following, people are really adopting open source even more and this would be a great example of a product that will endeavour to survive past its due date, if there ever was one:-) And people are going to feel like they are shaping its future, as well as getting bug fixes released quickly. Great move Adobe, absolutely fantastic is all I can say. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone:+613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie Sent: Thursday, 26 April 2007 3:55 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd] So, Flex has been open-sourced... http://www.onflex.org/ted/2007/04/flex-goes-open-source-mpl.php what's it mean for us CF people? thoughts? b -- --- Andrew Muller http://www.webqem.com linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/151/905 -- http://allthgo.com Phone: +61 (0) 7 3857 3880 Mobile: +61 (0) 409 721 701 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: OT: Subversion
If you SWITCH between the trunk and branches with out doing a commit, wont you loose your changes? On 4/25/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter, At least with my expereince and knowledge I earn more than $21 an hour. I also did say it will open a debate... The reason being is that people do their development differenlty, and I stand by by my comments on this matter. If I as a developer was to make changes to the code, and its not finished on what I am doing why would you commit to SVN, that is just not common sense. We here have deployed strict development methodologies, and believe me when I say it works. And if a developer commits code that breaks all build checks etc then they are questioned as to why the code is broken. This has come from the Java side to make sure that builds are as stable as possible when commiting to SVN. And Peter, if you want to learn this methodology and practice, you just might ern yourself more than $21 an hour. I don't claim to be a guru at anything, but when it comes to common sense SVN is not just to commit into willy nilly, and a developer should take the care to make sure that the code they are committing is considered final code is that so hard to understand? What do you think Version Control is all about Peter? On 4/24/07, Peter Tilbrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew must be the bees knees and lifelong expert for CFML development. Can I still extend my MyLar sails, catching the solar winds and saving the planet? Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -- If you are not living on the edge, You are taking up too much space. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
I can see a lot of positives about Adobe's move in this regard, suffice to say some interesting thoughts popped into my head for CFMX'ers especially well anyone for that matter. Here's the thing I did wonder though today, what if Bluedragon + WebORB + CFEclipse folks go together and formed an OS alliance. Now it gets interesting and not for Microsoft but Adobe... :) Immediate thoughts on the matter - Code-forking from compiler to frameworks - Adobe is transparent, which can be an awesome thing but it could bite them on the butt if there is too many moving pieces in this space (it does promote healthy competition though). - Could de-value their Server-side offerings, given Open AMF Red5 projects exist ( could be wrong). - Initially appears to validate Silverlight's existence (ie those whom love a good romance novel may end going the route Flash Killer reaction, Adobe announces OS version of FLEX in last minute hopes to combat Microsoft - not saying that's true but boy it would sell those click-thrus hehehe (why let a lie get in the way of a good story eh!) - Entry barrier got easier, but the playing field still hasn't changed (ramp-up in learning FLEX, tools to support the language and Flash Player itself is still closed off - although they did hint it may get OS but hints could be a stimulation trigger only). + Developers have more control over their own destiny + Developers will have opportunity to bend and sculpt Flex to suite their own specific needs (ie WebORB could really do some interesting things now). + Microsoft for example could use this to bend and twist Flash into Webparts for those whom prefer Flash etc (could). + Open source movement saves a kitten today (for every day large companies don't go Open Source, 1x Kitten dies). + Adobe have now made their intentions clear with FLEX, Enterprise or bust. They can't sustain both Web Enterprise market with FLEX, so it's easier to put a post-it note on the side of this and say you do it meanwhile, over in the Enterprise space there's a stronger focus on building that initiative (which means good for Enterprise folks whom see value in Adobe's offerings as they won't be distracted now). *shrug* I can see both positive and negatives, I'd simply say With time, comes life but equally comes ageing (ie meaning it could be a non-event or a milestone event.. time..just time...) On 4/26/07, Angus Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're right Andrew. Not all the source was available, rpc for one. Also you can't currently recompile the framework if you want to strip out debug for instance. so i guess we'll be able to do that soon. On 26/04/07, Andrew Muller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Angus You're quite correct about a relationship between Flex and ColdFusion sales. I interviewed Tim Buntel at MAX last year for BuilderAU and he told me then that CF sales had been helped by Flex. Scorpio will offer even better Flex support so if you're building frontends in Flex and you want to connect to data one easy choice will be ColdFusion. Andrew On 26/04/07, Angus Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok here's my take... It's really not unexpected. The SDK source was provided from day one, this at least makes it official. No more concerns about IP when building custom components. From a Coldfusion perspective? Learn Flex / Actionscript as of yesterday. There's going to be an explosion in the number of sexy drag and drop UI components. Coldfusion front ends in html are going to seem ho hum at best. (Even if they are uber cool ajax/dhtml). I see Coldfusion server sales picking up as Flex/AS3 cuts into php, asp, other markets. This is a natural flow on from a bigger slice of the web technology pie that Adobe will reap. New functionality will focus on server side integration eg email and database servers not front end. Front end = Flex / Flash. CF may continue to have a role in document management ie, search engine safe but I seriously doubt that this one wont be better handled via Flex/AS interfaces as well. Interesting to see how Adobe works in pdf handling. Flex Data Services / Live Cycle Data Services will be the bridge between CF and Flex more so than today. Don't even get me started on how Apollo will change things. I suspect that it will be open sourced as well. While I would like CF to be open source I don't see it going that way. Sorry Andrew :) CF will continue on, bigger market share but more enterprise back end in nature. How's that? Angus On 26/04/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Barry, My first reaction, what date is it again oh wow its past April 1st:-) My second reaction, after I picked myself of the floor, that is a very bold and very strategic move by Adobe on this. My thoughts are that it would be to compete with Blend / WPF / silverlight or
[cfaussie] Re: Request VS Application Scope
I do agree with you Andrew. I just posted the link as an illustration. I stumbled across it when looking for other authentication methods than the one I used so far. You know: never stop learning. But after playing around with it for a while, I too found that there is too much 'duplication' (as in doing the same thing over and over again) going on. Also, I'm currently working at a little site where particular pages show additional info when a user is logged in. The request scope would make it awkward to develop such a solution. Using the session scope for authentication is going to make it a walk in the park to develop that particular solution. So yeah, until further notice, I'll stick with app and session scope for authentication as well. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Java inner classes
Howdy, There's an old article here on inner classes; http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/knowledgebase/index.cfm?id=tn_19580 Also I have seen syntax something like this, but I haven't ever tried it; cfobject type=JAVA action=Create name=xxx class=OuterThing$InnerThing Also, if you're interested I can provide you with a java wrapper class to create Lucene Fields as I've already been down that road. Cheers. On 4/26/07, Grant Straker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You do it the same way you do in Java cfset createobject(component,org.apache.lucene.document.Field:Index) I pretty sure you'll still have some problems though as CF won't recognise the static value of the Field. My experience is that with Lucene 2 you need to write a complete java wrapper and not try and do it all in CF. Grant On Apr 26, 5:34 am, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm, Actually a good point, but as they are not inner classes and are constructors / methods have you tried myClass.Field(arg1); myClass.Field(arg1,arg2); ?? On 4/26/07, Adam Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day How does one - in CF - refer to an inner class (ClassFoo.Bar) of a given class (ClassFoo), when the constructor of ClassFoo takes an argument of type ClassFoo.Bar? For example the first, third,fourth and fifth constructors shown here: http://tinyurl.com/hfg9s(org.apache.lucene.document.Field). Any ideas? -- Adam (PS: first posted to the Adobe CF forums:http://tinyurl.com/2r3w84) -- Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd.www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Java inner classes
yeah, sorry Adam my example earlier should have been a $ not : between the classes. On Apr 26, 8:15 pm, MrBuzzy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Howdy, There's an old article here on inner classes;http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/knowledgebase/index.cfm?id=tn_19580 Also I have seen syntax something like this, but I haven't ever tried it; cfobject type=JAVA action=Create name=xxx class=OuterThing$InnerThing Also, if you're interested I can provide you with a java wrapper class to create Lucene Fields as I've already been down that road. Cheers. On 4/26/07, Grant Straker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You do it the same way you do in Java cfset createobject(component,org.apache.lucene.document.Field:Index) I pretty sure you'll still have some problems though as CF won't recognise the static value of the Field. My experience is that with Lucene 2 you need to write a complete java wrapper and not try and do it all in CF. Grant On Apr 26, 5:34 am, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm, Actually a good point, but as they are not inner classes and are constructors / methods have you tried myClass.Field(arg1); myClass.Field(arg1,arg2); ?? On 4/26/07, Adam Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day How does one - in CF - refer to an inner class (ClassFoo.Bar) of a given class (ClassFoo), when the constructor of ClassFoo takes an argument of type ClassFoo.Bar? For example the first, third,fourth and fifth constructors shown here: http://tinyurl.com/hfg9s(org.apache.lucene.document.Field). Any ideas? -- Adam (PS: first posted to the Adobe CF forums:http://tinyurl.com/2r3w84) -- Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd.www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Java inner classes
Cheers all. Just some notes: 1) Andrew, I think you have misread what I asked. Yes, I pointed you @ some constructors. What you were supposed to be noting was that those constructors require arguments of type Field.Index, Field.Store, Field.TermVector, which are inner classes. Make sense now? 2) Grant's example doesn't work (in case anyone else was tempted to run with it). One's never going to get very far trying to instantiate a Java object as a component (I presume that's just a brain-fart, though), but more importantly the class-reference syntax seems wrong. Or at least it is at odds with what a few other people have come up with, and indeed it just errors. 3) MrBuzzy: cheers, that's it. The Adobe article is, however, a bit misleading in saying this: You cannot call Java inner classes directly in ColdFusion. Because, as MrBuzzy demonstrates, you can. 4) Using MrBuzzy's syntax, I see what Grant is talking about: despite creating the objects just fine, the constructor code just errors with - rather unhelpfully - An exception occurred when instantiating a java object. The cause of this exception was that: . back from CF. Accessing the objects in isolation works fine, but CF is buggering something up between instantiation and using them in the constructor. EG: cfset oIndex = createobject(java,org.apache.lucene.document.Field $Index) !--- works fine --- cfset oIndexNo = oIndex.NO !--- works fine --- cfdump var=#oIndexNo# !--- works fine, and outputs what I'd expect to see --- cfset oStoreNo = createobject(java,org.apache.lucene.document.Field $Store).NO !--- works fine --- cfdump var=#oStoreNo# !--- works fine --- cfset oDoc.add(oField.init(id, 1, oStoreNo, oIndexNo)) !--- errors as per above--- NB: using the Field(String name, Reader reader) constructor works fine, but I don't want to do that. I've yet to finish exploring this, though, and if I nut it out, I'll pass it on. I am leaning towards Grant's / MrBuzzy's suggestions of wrapping this stuff in a quick Java class, written in such a way that the methods only expect data types CF is comfortable with. All interesting stuff. Cheers again. -- Adam --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Java inner classes
[sorry didn't see your follow-up Grant, was busy writing mine] Cheers. -- Adam --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: OT: Subversion
yes that is correct. On 4/26/07, AJ Mercer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you SWITCH between the trunk and branches with out doing a commit, wont you loose your changes? On 4/25/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter, At least with my expereince and knowledge I earn more than $21 an hour. I also did say it will open a debate... The reason being is that people do their development differenlty, and I stand by by my comments on this matter. If I as a developer was to make changes to the code, and its not finished on what I am doing why would you commit to SVN, that is just not common sense. We here have deployed strict development methodologies, and believe me when I say it works. And if a developer commits code that breaks all build checks etc then they are questioned as to why the code is broken. This has come from the Java side to make sure that builds are as stable as possible when commiting to SVN. And Peter, if you want to learn this methodology and practice, you just might ern yourself more than $21 an hour. I don't claim to be a guru at anything, but when it comes to common sense SVN is not just to commit into willy nilly, and a developer should take the care to make sure that the code they are committing is considered final code is that so hard to understand? What do you think Version Control is all about Peter? On 4/24/07, Peter Tilbrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew must be the bees knees and lifelong expert for CFML development. Can I still extend my MyLar sails, catching the solar winds and saving the planet? Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -- If you are not living on the edge, You are taking up too much space. -- Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Java inner classes
Way hey! Sorted it. Once I RTFM'ed, I saw where I was going wrong: cfset oDoc.add(oField.init(id, 1, oStoreNo, oIndexNo)) And from the Java docs for field: blockquote Throws: IllegalArgumentException - in any of the following situations: * the field is neither stored nor indexed /blockquote So, yeah... that'd be why I got the error. Once I changed the Field.Store to YES, it worked. It's like pulling teeth, but I'm getting there. -- Adam --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Scott, I think we need to wait and see how they plan this, my thoughts are more on a tight repository because of the more upto date builds. Could be wrong, but if anyone wanted to branch out then they would be hitting a merge nightmare. But guess we need to wait and see... On 4/26/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can see a lot of positives about Adobe's move in this regard, suffice to say some interesting thoughts popped into my head for CFMX'ers especially well anyone for that matter. Here's the thing I did wonder though today, what if Bluedragon + WebORB + CFEclipse folks go together and formed an OS alliance. Now it gets interesting and not for Microsoft but Adobe... :) Immediate thoughts on the matter - Code-forking from compiler to frameworks - Adobe is transparent, which can be an awesome thing but it could bite them on the butt if there is too many moving pieces in this space (it does promote healthy competition though). - Could de-value their Server-side offerings, given Open AMF Red5 projects exist ( could be wrong). - Initially appears to validate Silverlight's existence (ie those whom love a good romance novel may end going the route Flash Killer reaction, Adobe announces OS version of FLEX in last minute hopes to combat Microsoft - not saying that's true but boy it would sell those click-thrus hehehe (why let a lie get in the way of a good story eh!) - Entry barrier got easier, but the playing field still hasn't changed (ramp-up in learning FLEX, tools to support the language and Flash Player itself is still closed off - although they did hint it may get OS but hints could be a stimulation trigger only). + Developers have more control over their own destiny + Developers will have opportunity to bend and sculpt Flex to suite their own specific needs (ie WebORB could really do some interesting things now). + Microsoft for example could use this to bend and twist Flash into Webparts for those whom prefer Flash etc (could). + Open source movement saves a kitten today (for every day large companies don't go Open Source, 1x Kitten dies). + Adobe have now made their intentions clear with FLEX, Enterprise or bust. They can't sustain both Web Enterprise market with FLEX, so it's easier to put a post-it note on the side of this and say you do it meanwhile, over in the Enterprise space there's a stronger focus on building that initiative (which means good for Enterprise folks whom see value in Adobe's offerings as they won't be distracted now). *shrug* I can see both positive and negatives, I'd simply say With time, comes life but equally comes ageing (ie meaning it could be a non-event or a milestone event.. time..just time...) On 4/26/07, Angus Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're right Andrew. Not all the source was available, rpc for one. Also you can't currently recompile the framework if you want to strip out debug for instance. so i guess we'll be able to do that soon. On 26/04/07, Andrew Muller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Angus You're quite correct about a relationship between Flex and ColdFusion sales. I interviewed Tim Buntel at MAX last year for BuilderAU and he told me then that CF sales had been helped by Flex. Scorpio will offer even better Flex support so if you're building frontends in Flex and you want to connect to data one easy choice will be ColdFusion. Andrew On 26/04/07, Angus Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok here's my take... It's really not unexpected. The SDK source was provided from day one, this at least makes it official. No more concerns about IP when building custom components. From a Coldfusion perspective? Learn Flex / Actionscript as of yesterday. There's going to be an explosion in the number of sexy drag and drop UI components. Coldfusion front ends in html are going to seem ho hum at best. (Even if they are uber cool ajax/dhtml). I see Coldfusion server sales picking up as Flex/AS3 cuts into php, asp, other markets. This is a natural flow on from a bigger slice of the web technology pie that Adobe will reap. New functionality will focus on server side integration eg email and database servers not front end. Front end = Flex / Flash. CF may continue to have a role in document management ie, search engine safe but I seriously doubt that this one wont be better handled via Flex/AS interfaces as well. Interesting to see how Adobe works in pdf handling. Flex Data Services / Live Cycle Data Services will be the bridge between CF and Flex more so than today. Don't even get me started on how Apollo will change things. I suspect that it will be open sourced as well. While I would like CF to be open source I don't see it going that way. Sorry Andrew :) CF will continue on, bigger market
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
The podcasts contain some pretty interesting info. Namely Adobe and trusted committers will be responsible for the main source. I suppose this will be for the core branch... with forks for more focused audiences. The expanded client market will drive more server sales. Red5 and co will benefit. Same principal as more CF server revenue. How does it invalidate Silverlight? I don't get the romantic connection hey I forgot valentines day too :) I agree there is an entry barrier. Flashlight has the same problem no? Scott, I don't get why you say can't sustain both Web Enterprise market with FLEX. What do you mean? How many kittens could we save if you nudge Microsoft along the open source path??? On 26/04/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can see a lot of positives about Adobe's move in this regard, suffice to say some interesting thoughts popped into my head for CFMX'ers especially well anyone for that matter. Here's the thing I did wonder though today, what if Bluedragon + WebORB + CFEclipse folks go together and formed an OS alliance. Now it gets interesting and not for Microsoft but Adobe... :) Immediate thoughts on the matter - Code-forking from compiler to frameworks - Adobe is transparent, which can be an awesome thing but it could bite them on the butt if there is too many moving pieces in this space (it does promote healthy competition though). - Could de-value their Server-side offerings, given Open AMF Red5 projects exist ( could be wrong). - Initially appears to validate Silverlight's existence (ie those whom love a good romance novel may end going the route Flash Killer reaction, Adobe announces OS version of FLEX in last minute hopes to combat Microsoft - not saying that's true but boy it would sell those click-thrus hehehe (why let a lie get in the way of a good story eh!) - Entry barrier got easier, but the playing field still hasn't changed (ramp-up in learning FLEX, tools to support the language and Flash Player itself is still closed off - although they did hint it may get OS but hints could be a stimulation trigger only). + Developers have more control over their own destiny + Developers will have opportunity to bend and sculpt Flex to suite their own specific needs (ie WebORB could really do some interesting things now). + Microsoft for example could use this to bend and twist Flash into Webparts for those whom prefer Flash etc (could). + Open source movement saves a kitten today (for every day large companies don't go Open Source, 1x Kitten dies). + Adobe have now made their intentions clear with FLEX, Enterprise or bust. They can't sustain both Web Enterprise market with FLEX, so it's easier to put a post-it note on the side of this and say you do it meanwhile, over in the Enterprise space there's a stronger focus on building that initiative (which means good for Enterprise folks whom see value in Adobe's offerings as they won't be distracted now). *shrug* I can see both positive and negatives, I'd simply say With time, comes life but equally comes ageing (ie meaning it could be a non-event or a milestone event.. time..just time...) On 4/26/07, Angus Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're right Andrew. Not all the source was available, rpc for one. Also you can't currently recompile the framework if you want to strip out debug for instance. so i guess we'll be able to do that soon. On 26/04/07, Andrew Muller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Angus You're quite correct about a relationship between Flex and ColdFusion sales. I interviewed Tim Buntel at MAX last year for BuilderAU and he told me then that CF sales had been helped by Flex. Scorpio will offer even better Flex support so if you're building frontends in Flex and you want to connect to data one easy choice will be ColdFusion. Andrew On 26/04/07, Angus Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok here's my take... It's really not unexpected. The SDK source was provided from day one, this at least makes it official. No more concerns about IP when building custom components. From a Coldfusion perspective? Learn Flex / Actionscript as of yesterday. There's going to be an explosion in the number of sexy drag and drop UI components. Coldfusion front ends in html are going to seem ho hum at best. (Even if they are uber cool ajax/dhtml). I see Coldfusion server sales picking up as Flex/AS3 cuts into php, asp, other markets. This is a natural flow on from a bigger slice of the web technology pie that Adobe will reap. New functionality will focus on server side integration eg email and database servers not front end. Front end = Flex / Flash. CF may continue to have a role in document management ie, search engine safe but I seriously doubt that this one wont be better handled via Flex/AS interfaces as well.
[cfaussie] Re: Request VS Application Scope
But it was very well documented for a tutorial, can't take that away from it:-) On 4/26/07, elAdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do agree with you Andrew. I just posted the link as an illustration. I stumbled across it when looking for other authentication methods than the one I used so far. You know: never stop learning. But after playing around with it for a while, I too found that there is too much 'duplication' (as in doing the same thing over and over again) going on. Also, I'm currently working at a little site where particular pages show additional info when a user is logged in. The request scope would make it awkward to develop such a solution. Using the session scope for authentication is going to make it a walk in the park to develop that particular solution. So yeah, until further notice, I'll stick with app and session scope for authentication as well. -- Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: URLs without ? - Search engine friendly URLs
Have a look at url rewrites. ISAPI rewrite for IIS, Apache has it built in. This functionality allows you to use regular expressions to alias 'pretty' urls to url that contains a query string. Blair On 4/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I was reading something about building search engine friendly URL's and would like to implement this for our current site rebuild project. I read this: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq/topic.cfm?TopicID=3#answer87 I like the idea, but would like to get some input into better / other methods for doing this. Currently we use index.cfm?id=123show=1preview=1 URL style. I would like to move away from this. Thanks, Rony --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Request VS Application Scope
Hi Andrew, Could you point you which part of the code hits the DB everytime? I currently have my login 'scripts' (more of files stored in its old folders) called via template when needed at work. I thought this is a pretty efficient and simple way of authentication, just wondering where this part of the code that hits the DB unnecessarily. Thanks in advance, KC Kuok On Apr 26, 3:53 pm, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I will say it is a very well written article, but it hits the database each and every request now although minimal impact it can create a networking bottleneck on heavy sites. The most common and preferred method would be to once it is authenticated to stick the info into a session variable, and check against that before having to re hit the database for a valid login. As far as request goes that only lives for the current request, so by placing the data into that scope you are running that code each and every page request and again, this is an overhead that can be cut with a change in the way it is coded. Don't get me wrong, each to their own. Personally that method of hitting the DB, and then storing in the request scope is an overhead that really should be avoided if possible. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd.www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KC Kuok Sent: Thursday, 26 April 2007 3:14 PM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Request VS Application Scope I thought it was a fairly good tutorial link... care to enlighten me which part was running code unnecessarily? Cheers. KC Kuok On Apr 26, 2:13 pm, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is a typical example of running code unnecessarily.. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd.www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of elAdi Sent: Thursday, 26 April 2007 1:50 PM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Request VS Application Scope Here's a tutorial that implements user authentication through application.cfc and uses request variables. Might shed some light into it - not theoretically, but practically. http://www.trajiklyhip.com/tutorials/loginSecurityCF7/loginSecurityCF... Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
On 4/26/07, Angus Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The podcasts contain some pretty interesting info. Namely Adobe and trusted committers will be responsible for the main source. I suppose this will be for the core branch... with forks for more focused audiences. Cool, not sure how this translates or whom can make the grade to be on this list, but yeah I saw that as well. The expanded client market will drive more server sales. Red5 and co will benefit. Same principal as more CF server revenue. Yup, Red5 is quite mature solution so far, I mean Mark Piller (CEO) of WebORB has taken it quite he distance. How does it invalidate Silverlight? I don't get the romantic connection hey I forgot valentines day too :) Validate, not in-validate. I mentioned Flash is Open Source to a few friends, their first response was o desperate move, I guess Silverlight spooked them. Which told me two things. 1) Flash Killer Press got more momentum then I realised. 2) It's not a big leap of faith to the non-Adobe community as well as the Adobe Community. I mean think about it, Silverlight gets announced, it's getting close to MIX07, talk of the town has been Silverlight and then just before MIX07 Adobe announces We are opensourcing FLEX (You don't have to be a genius to catch onto what the PR spin for this is intended to do - that or it could purely be a coincidence). 3) I don't care either way to be honest hehehe. I agree there is an entry barrier. Flashlight has the same problem no? Yeah, and It sounds negative but if the code does fork, it could get confusing (The key to this success is to keep the forking contained which I'm sure they have a strategy around - well I hope anyway). Scott, I don't get why you say can't sustain both Web Enterprise market with FLEX. What do you mean? Up untl now, Flex SDK has been free, so in reality for the average punter, this announcement means swfa as they still are paying for the Flex Builder 2.0.1 license and they are still scratching their head on how to make Flex talk to remoting servers - or - finding hosting providers that will let them use concepts like Flex Data Services / Flash Media Server. I think personally this move is to expand their development arm buy using the community to get more bandwidth on moving FLEX forward. As David Mendels for example indicated on Flexcoders that they have a focused vision on building Enterprise solutions, so given Flex is now Open Source it does relive the pressure somewhat to push FLEX 3.0, FLEX 4.0 etc out the door. As you may find in future the slogan But we gave it to the community so if you think we are moving slow, you do it! - much like their response when you ask about why .NET + FDS aren't supported But we gave you the SDK and AMF, you make .NET remoting work again.. I'm being synical but nothing is ever free :) Make no mistake, Enterprise is now their main focus, keep the cashcow moving forward (CS3 Solutions) and look at ways of leveraging Flash + PDF in corporate firewals to make some serious bankroll. This isn't a bad thing either, it's a ballsy move on Adobe's part, so they appear to be putting Flex on the table and letting it ride. Time will tell if the gamble pays off though and transparency isn't always a good thing. How many kittens could we save if you nudge Microsoft along the open source path??? We do already :)... here's your homework, go find out where ;) -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Exhibit A - http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=1020 For some people, (open source) is a philosophical requirement, a sign of integrity and trust in a vendor. This will close that gap and address any lingering doubts they have about our openness and commitment to community. You have to engage, intimately, with your target market. You have to let them into your own thinking, with arms open, let them feel the embrace of your brand, and mean it. On 4/27/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/26/07, Angus Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The podcasts contain some pretty interesting info. Namely Adobe and trusted committers will be responsible for the main source. I suppose this will be for the core branch... with forks for more focused audiences. Cool, not sure how this translates or whom can make the grade to be on this list, but yeah I saw that as well. The expanded client market will drive more server sales. Red5 and co will benefit. Same principal as more CF server revenue. Yup, Red5 is quite mature solution so far, I mean Mark Piller (CEO) of WebORB has taken it quite he distance. How does it invalidate Silverlight? I don't get the romantic connection hey I forgot valentines day too :) Validate, not in-validate. I mentioned Flash is Open Source to a few friends, their first response was o desperate move, I guess Silverlight spooked them. Which told me two things. 1) Flash Killer Press got more momentum then I realised. 2) It's not a big leap of faith to the non-Adobe community as well as the Adobe Community. I mean think about it, Silverlight gets announced, it's getting close to MIX07, talk of the town has been Silverlight and then just before MIX07 Adobe announces We are opensourcing FLEX (You don't have to be a genius to catch onto what the PR spin for this is intended to do - that or it could purely be a coincidence). 3) I don't care either way to be honest hehehe. I agree there is an entry barrier. Flashlight has the same problem no? Yeah, and It sounds negative but if the code does fork, it could get confusing (The key to this success is to keep the forking contained which I'm sure they have a strategy around - well I hope anyway). Scott, I don't get why you say can't sustain both Web Enterprise market with FLEX. What do you mean? Up untl now, Flex SDK has been free, so in reality for the average punter, this announcement means swfa as they still are paying for the Flex Builder 2.0.1 license and they are still scratching their head on how to make Flex talk to remoting servers - or - finding hosting providers that will let them use concepts like Flex Data Services / Flash Media Server. I think personally this move is to expand their development arm buy using the community to get more bandwidth on moving FLEX forward. As David Mendels for example indicated on Flexcoders that they have a focused vision on building Enterprise solutions, so given Flex is now Open Source it does relive the pressure somewhat to push FLEX 3.0, FLEX 4.0 etc out the door. As you may find in future the slogan But we gave it to the community so if you think we are moving slow, you do it! - much like their response when you ask about why .NET + FDS aren't supported But we gave you the SDK and AMF, you make .NET remoting work again.. I'm being synical but nothing is ever free :) Make no mistake, Enterprise is now their main focus, keep the cashcow moving forward (CS3 Solutions) and look at ways of leveraging Flash + PDF in corporate firewals to make some serious bankroll. This isn't a bad thing either, it's a ballsy move on Adobe's part, so they appear to be putting Flex on the table and letting it ride. Time will tell if the gamble pays off though and transparency isn't always a good thing. How many kittens could we save if you nudge Microsoft along the open source path??? We do already :)... here's your homework, go find out where ;) -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Flash File Uploads
Hey guys Has anyone managed to get Flash file uploads to work with an ASP file upload process? http://www.inevative.com.au/images/email-stationary/inevativeLogo_small.jpg Steve Onnis Director / Head Developer http://www.inevative.com.au/images/email-stationary/email.jpg [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.inevative.com.au/images/email-stationary/phone.jpg +61 3 9001 2258 http://www.inevative.com.au/images/email-stationary/mobile.jpg 0401 667 996 http://www.inevative.com.au/images/email-stationary/web.jpg www.inevative.com.au http://www.novahost.com.au http://www.threesquares.com.au http://www.smsonline.com.au --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~--- attachment: inevativeLogo_small.jpg attachment: email.jpg attachment: phone.jpg attachment: mobile.jpg attachment: web.jpg
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
This has nothing to do with Silverlight. I am not sure about your experience working in large companies, but a decision of this scale takes quite some time to finalize, and get approval for. We have been working on this internally for over a year, and it is really the natural evolution for Flex (i.e. the source is already available). Of course, you are a Microsoft evangelist (although your sig and email don't mention it), so I understand your desire to spread the impression that this all happened in the last couple of weeks in response to Silverlight. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Scott Barnes wrote: On 4/26/07, Angus Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Validate, not in-validate. I mentioned Flash is Open Source to a few friends, their first response was o desperate move, I guess Silverlight spooked them. Which told me two things. 1) Flash Killer Press got more momentum then I realised. 2) It's not a big leap of faith to the non-Adobe community as well as the Adobe Community. I mean think about it, Silverlight gets announced, it's getting close to MIX07, talk of the town has been Silverlight and then just before MIX07 Adobe announces We are opensourcing FLEX (You don't have to be a genius to catch onto what the PR spin for this is intended to do - that or it could purely be a coincidence). 3) I don't care either way to be honest hehehe. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
On 4/27/07, Mike Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This has nothing to do with Silverlight. I am not sure about your experience working in large companies, but a decision of this scale takes quite some time to finalize, and get approval for. Yup, but the announcement itself is appearing to be reactive and while you want to argue with me because we seem to be getting quite close these days Mike (heh) i said it could be argued as being reactive. I personally, couldn't care as while I'm sure it's all well thought-out and there is a strategy of some mystic kind around this decision and no doubt you will play that card until the PR points run out, the way I see it is you released the compiler yesterday and asked the developers world wide to do more withe *actual framework* with you instead of waiting for you.. Entry into FLEX hasn't changed and i'm still paying for the tools and no doubt the server-side pieces are going to cost me a bit. If you're all for OS, why not go the whole hog, Flex Builder 2.0.1 logged in or better yet, look at ways to combine Flex Builder 2.0.1 and CFEclipse so that folks on this list can do some basic Remoting similiar to the way Visual Studio Strong typed Datasets work. But getting you to comment on something as meaty as that these days is fairly limited unless a camera is in the room. It's blunt but anyway.. We have been working on this internally for over a year, and it is really the natural evolution for Flex (i.e. the source is already available). Just like FLEX 1.0 to 2.0 SDk came naturally right? :) heh Of course, you are a Microsoft evangelist (although your sig and email don't mention it), so I understand your desire to spread the impression that this all happened in the last couple of weeks in response to Silverlight. Oh quit crying about the same attempt to discredit anything I say by associating as being Microsoft propaganda. You look like an idiot as everyone on this entire list knows I'm Microsoft and while you think you're gaining points, you're coming off as being political. Again, what is it you do for Adobe? I thought we had a Scoble already? mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Scott Barnes wrote: On 4/26/07, Angus Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Validate, not in-validate. I mentioned Flash is Open Source to a few friends, their first response was o desperate move, I guess Silverlight spooked them. Which told me two things. 1) Flash Killer Press got more momentum then I realised. 2) It's not a big leap of faith to the non-Adobe community as well as the Adobe Community. I mean think about it, Silverlight gets announced, it's getting close to MIX07, talk of the town has been Silverlight and then just before MIX07 Adobe announces We are opensourcing FLEX (You don't have to be a genius to catch onto what the PR spin for this is intended to do - that or it could purely be a coincidence). 3) I don't care either way to be honest hehehe. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
You're so easy Scott:-) Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 8:31 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd] Oh quit crying about the same attempt to discredit anything I say by associating as being Microsoft propaganda. You look like an idiot as everyone on this entire list knows I'm Microsoft and while you think you're gaining points, you're coming off as being political. Again, what is it you do for Adobe? I thought we had a Scoble already? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Yup ;) I can't suffer sillyness... On 4/27/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're so easy Scott:-) Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone:+613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 8:31 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd] Oh quit crying about the same attempt to discredit anything I say by associating as being Microsoft propaganda. You look like an idiot as everyone on this entire list knows I'm Microsoft and while you think you're gaining points, you're coming off as being political. Again, what is it you do for Adobe? I thought we had a Scoble already? -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: OT: Subversion
I have another take on this subversion issue... 1. we use a shared development server instead of each developer having their own working copy. why ? a. designers project managers have no idea about subversion. they want to see what the current state of development is by looking at the dev server. b. when you work on a large nubmer of sites that can have over 7000 coldfusion templates and integrates with X number of 3rd party web services, java components and databases, the sheir amount of configuration required to get developers machines configured is too large. its easier to tackle the problem from a project management perspective and breakdown the work into descrete sections so developers don't work on the same files. 2. we branch when the change is large enough to span more than a day and will prevent other devs working on the site at the same time. Our branches become separate working copies on the same dev server. once the branch is deployed we merge back into the trunk. 3. we pre and post tag updates to the trunk when bug fixes occour and when a release is deployed to a testing or production server. testing and production are not working copies but releases of the codebase. while this method isnt the traditional svn model, and you may or may not get all the benefits that SVN offers it still gives you some version control, it does minimise configuration and merging issues. my 2c Pat ps. does any1 know of any educational institutions that do ANY kind of version control courses ? tafe, uni, pvt training compaines ? this seems like such a critical element of being a commercial developer and i have never heard of it being taught. everyone seems to just have to pick it up on the run when they start working - its a little sad. On Apr 26, 7:34 pm, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yes that is correct. On 4/26/07, AJ Mercer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you SWITCH between the trunk and branches with out doing a commit, wont you loose your changes? On 4/25/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter, At least with my expereince and knowledge I earn more than $21 an hour. I also did say it will open a debate... The reason being is that people do their development differenlty, and I stand by by my comments on this matter. If I as a developer was to make changes to the code, and its not finished on what I am doing why would you commit to SVN, that is just not common sense. We here have deployed strict development methodologies, and believe me when I say it works. And if a developer commits code that breaks all build checks etc then they are questioned as to why the code is broken. This has come from the Java side to make sure that builds are as stable as possible when commiting to SVN. And Peter, if you want to learn this methodology and practice, you just might ern yourself more than $21 an hour. I don't claim to be a guru at anything, but when it comes to common sense SVN is not just to commit into willy nilly, and a developer should take the care to make sure that the code they are committing is considered final code is that so hard to understand? What do you think Version Control is all about Peter? On 4/24/07, Peter Tilbrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew must be the bees knees and lifelong expert for CFML development. Can I still extend my MyLar sails, catching the solar winds and saving the planet? Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -- If you are not living on the edge, You are taking up too much space. -- Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd.www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Hmmm, silliness is M$ thinking they can rip people off:-) Sorry Scott you left yourself open on that one *lol* Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 10:05 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd] Yup ;) I can't suffer sillyness... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: OT: Subversion
Pat, That is very bad and here is why!! First of all, it isn't very hard to setup up a staging server, and when that is done and your happy that the build is stable you can export to the staging server. But the biggest headache for this model is down time, every time I have come across this development scenario I have quickly changed it there is nothing worse than another developer with broken code that effects you from doing your work. And how are you going to explain the downtime due to another developer breaking a stable build? There are no excuses for not having a separate development (developer workstation) and a separate staging/testing server. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: OT: Subversion
Good god. You've brought back nightmares of what our setup was like 2 or 3 years ago. Someone would run a big query, bring the server down, and it was time for a coffee break while the server rebooted. Or worse. Someone would get confused and overwrite someone else's changes, and shouting matches would ensue. We eventually switched to having separate JRun instances. Then, 'bad' developer's instances could be restarted without impacting on others. Then we got SeeFusion (If I could name one CF tool worth paying for, this would be it). We could kill just 'bad' requests then. It was nice. It breaks my heart to see technical people have to suffer because management don't get it. It a techie didn't 'get it', their ass would be out on the streets. But I digress... Don't know if proper version control is being taught at formally at unis. I used rather primitive version control, in the form of zipped up directories when at uni. Eventually that got replaced by Eclipse's built in history. When I started work, jumping over to CVS was quite a natural progression. (Although the software, wincvs, was still painful). Now, I'm happily using subversion from within eclipse. To branch and tag with with the sort of convoluted assignments they give at uni would be a bit of overkill. Now, if Aussie unis got students more involved in real software projects, ala Google Summer of Code, that would be a different story. There are a number of 'how to do it right' documents for various version control systems out there, for those who care to look. /Waffle on, Australia. Pat wrote: I have another take on this subversion issue... 1. we use a shared development server instead of each developer having their own working copy. *snip* ps. does any1 know of any educational institutions that do ANY kind of version control courses ? tafe, uni, pvt training compaines ? this seems like such a critical element of being a commercial developer and i have never heard of it being taught. everyone seems to just have to pick it up on the run when they start working - its a little sad. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Yeah well i went past Bills house yesterday, so I'm also thinking... I could do a with more money :) On 4/27/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm, silliness is M$ thinking they can rip people off:-) Sorry Scott you left yourself open on that one *lol* Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone:+613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 10:05 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd] Yup ;) I can't suffer sillyness... -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: OT: Subversion
in our experience of using shared development the downtime is minimal. and who do you have to explain it to ? downtime on testing and production servers is another issue, but while your in development if someone changes something that breaks what your working on, they will know about it very quickly. The difference is in the time to integrate changes. Your delaying your integration to (usally) daily we are doing our integration instantly. If your having major integration issues its usually a symptom of project management and a problem with work breakdown structure. maybe this model doesn't work in every development scenario, but it appears to work for us. I wouldn't dismiss it just because its not the standard approach. Pat On Apr 27, 10:18 am, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pat, That is very bad and here is why!! First of all, it isn't very hard to setup up a staging server, and when that is done and your happy that the build is stable you can export to the staging server. But the biggest headache for this model is down time, every time I have come across this development scenario I have quickly changed it there is nothing worse than another developer with broken code that effects you from doing your work. And how are you going to explain the downtime due to another developer breaking a stable build? There are no excuses for not having a separate development (developer workstation) and a separate staging/testing server. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd.www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: OT: Subversion
Pat, The downtime is when you try to fix a bug in your code, that was introduced by another developer piss farting around in the same code. Trust me, I do not care what you think this is the worst way of developing in a team environment than you can imagine. Ok, let's say a developer needs to go in and modify some code that is stored in the Application scope. But to reset the application will mean everyone has to stop what they are doing or suffer problems, interruptions like this is downtime. Or a developer makes a change to something that works for him, but when it comes to you that code breaks before your code can execute, so you either have to wait till he fixes that code or you go and fix it yourself, more downtime. If you strongly believe it works, then good for you. But those of us who have been around long enough know better, and we know that this is the worst thing you can ever do. Pat don't preach to us, we have been in that scenario and we WILL NOT recommend it. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pat Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 10:50 AM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Re: OT: Subversion in our experience of using shared development the downtime is minimal. and who do you have to explain it to ? downtime on testing and production servers is another issue, but while your in development if someone changes something that breaks what your working on, they will know about it very quickly. The difference is in the time to integrate changes. Your delaying your integration to (usally) daily we are doing our integration instantly. If your having major integration issues its usually a symptom of project management and a problem with work breakdown structure. maybe this model doesn't work in every development scenario, but it appears to work for us. I wouldn't dismiss it just because its not the standard approach. Pat On Apr 27, 10:18 am, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pat, That is very bad and here is why!! First of all, it isn't very hard to setup up a staging server, and when that is done and your happy that the build is stable you can export to the staging server. But the biggest headache for this model is down time, every time I have come across this development scenario I have quickly changed it there is nothing worse than another developer with broken code that effects you from doing your work. And how are you going to explain the downtime due to another developer breaking a stable build? There are no excuses for not having a separate development (developer workstation) and a separate staging/testing server. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd.www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: OT: Subversion
not preaching, just offering an alternative. You might not like it, but it works for us. and you would have to admit that it is better than NO version control. On Apr 27, 10:57 am, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pat, The downtime is when you try to fix a bug in your code, that was introduced by another developer piss farting around in the same code. Trust me, I do not care what you think this is the worst way of developing in a team environment than you can imagine. Ok, let's say a developer needs to go in and modify some code that is stored in the Application scope. But to reset the application will mean everyone has to stop what they are doing or suffer problems, interruptions like this is downtime. Or a developer makes a change to something that works for him, but when it comes to you that code breaks before your code can execute, so you either have to wait till he fixes that code or you go and fix it yourself, more downtime. If you strongly believe it works, then good for you. But those of us who have been around long enough know better, and we know that this is the worst thing you can ever do. Pat don't preach to us, we have been in that scenario and we WILL NOT recommend it. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd.www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pat Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 10:50 AM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Re: OT: Subversion in our experience of using shared development the downtime is minimal. and who do you have to explain it to ? downtime on testing and production servers is another issue, but while your in development if someone changes something that breaks what your working on, they will know about it very quickly. The difference is in the time to integrate changes. Your delaying your integration to (usally) daily we are doing our integration instantly. If your having major integration issues its usually a symptom of project management and a problem with work breakdown structure. maybe this model doesn't work in every development scenario, but it appears to work for us. I wouldn't dismiss it just because its not the standard approach. Pat On Apr 27, 10:18 am, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pat, That is very bad and here is why!! First of all, it isn't very hard to setup up a staging server, and when that is done and your happy that the build is stable you can export to the staging server. But the biggest headache for this model is down time, every time I have come across this development scenario I have quickly changed it there is nothing worse than another developer with broken code that effects you from doing your work. And how are you going to explain the downtime due to another developer breaking a stable build? There are no excuses for not having a separate development (developer workstation) and a separate staging/testing server. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd.www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
this thread didn't really go where I hoped... Angus Johnson and Andrew Muller got closest (thanx guys) (and it looks like it's degraded into the typical off-topic slanging match that [many people] are well and truly over) so before it collapses into a steaming pile of poo... Getting back to Flex and CF (especially since Flex is for front-end UI's and CF is a server technology) - HTML is as good as dead! well, not really but if you're working on a webapp using far too much DHTML (if it's got tabs and child windows) it'll be as good as redundant and old fashioned in 12 months time. If the company you're working for has no strategy for Flex and will persevere with the same tired old HTML, beat the rush and get out now (IMHO) - AJAX is dead (as above). Except in particular situations why bother when Flex will do it all? (http://developerdispatch.com/?p=253 Why ActionScript 3.0 Changes Everything) - Accessibility enhancements (especially with screenreaders like JAWS) has just taken a back-seat. MACR were making good in-roads in this area but still had a way to go. If it's left to the community to drive, it won't get any further. it's just not sexy enough or bring in the revenue to justify continued development. It's like rural pay-phones: needs subsidy from other profitable areas. (Lets face it, AJAX is NOT accessible anyway) - The best IDE we can ever hope for will be no better than FlexBuilder. I was heaps more productive with VB6 than I will ever be with an Eclipse-based IDE. I'd rather have one tool that did it all 100% well than have to juggle a bunch of plug-ins, each working 80% well and each having their own quirks (mark this down to personal preference, I suppose). two more points: I've mentioned this at CFUG's but it's worth repeating: - it's now time for CF'ers to step up to the mark on application design (and this means upskilling from their HTML-based request/response mindset). Who understands more about application development, networking, security, robustness and load, et al: a CF programmer or a Flash designer? finally: - one aspect of the community involvement that worries me is the dividing line on who does what - buck passing. An example - CFEclipse: you'd think that the CF dictionary definitions for it would come from Adobe, but no, it's expected that that the community will provide. Why? And CF is a cash cow for Adobe? eh, my 2c only. your mileage may vary. barry.b PS: Mike Chambers a cfaussie member? that's news to me. I'm not knocking this, just surprised he's at all interested in a bunch of CF'ers on the other side of the world... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] FLEX 2 - text item not being recognised
I have a Panel control with multiple text and label controls within. I am able to assign values to the text property of these controls in via a function in an external actionscript file. I have now added a new text control to the panel and I am unable to assign a value to its text property. In actionscript when I type in the control name and enter the . I get a drop down of properties and methods to select. For this new text control I get nothing. Its as if it does not exist on the page. Any thoughts or suggestions. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Barry, Ajax will not die, it is thriving. The reason being is that for a quick Web2.0 solution it is the most easiest to get up and running very quickly. I have just finished an intranet system using dojo, and it was completed in half the time it would have if I had been using flex. The reason being we already had that skill set, and due to time constraints we chose not to invest in flex at that time. And we will do the same for our next project, unless we have time to invest in learning the skill set or can afford to bring that skill set in. On your other point of Application design, I would rather outsource designers for that and have the CF developer concentrate on more on backend development. My opinion is that there are people who are good at what they do, why not utilize that skill set first. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Pundits Preaching the Passing of HTML have been Persistently Proven Pungent. No one size fits all solution for anything, IMO. Vanilla HTML does somethings very well, and adding fluff, in the form of AJAX/flash wizardry on serves to get in my way. That said, there are things where a liberal sprinkling of ajax makes it much easier to use. And there are also cases where a full blown RIA make sense. Barry Beattie wrote: this thread didn't really go where I hoped... Angus Johnson and Andrew Muller got closest (thanx guys) (and it looks like it's degraded into the typical off-topic slanging match that [many people] are well and truly over) so before it collapses into a steaming pile of poo... Getting back to Flex and CF (especially since Flex is for front-end UI's and CF is a server technology) - HTML is as good as dead! well, not really but if you're working on a webapp using far too much DHTML (if it's got tabs and child windows) it'll be as good as redundant and old fashioned in 12 months time. If the company you're working for has no strategy for Flex and will persevere with the same tired old HTML, beat the rush and get out now (IMHO) - AJAX is dead (as above). Except in particular situations why bother when Flex will do it all? (http://developerdispatch.com/?p=253 Why ActionScript 3.0 Changes Everything) - Accessibility enhancements (especially with screenreaders like JAWS) has just taken a back-seat. MACR were making good in-roads in this area but still had a way to go. If it's left to the community to drive, it won't get any further. it's just not sexy enough or bring in the revenue to justify continued development. It's like rural pay-phones: needs subsidy from other profitable areas. (Lets face it, AJAX is NOT accessible anyway) - The best IDE we can ever hope for will be no better than FlexBuilder. I was heaps more productive with VB6 than I will ever be with an Eclipse-based IDE. I'd rather have one tool that did it all 100% well than have to juggle a bunch of plug-ins, each working 80% well and each having their own quirks (mark this down to personal preference, I suppose). two more points: I've mentioned this at CFUG's but it's worth repeating: - it's now time for CF'ers to step up to the mark on application design (and this means upskilling from their HTML-based request/response mindset). Who understands more about application development, networking, security, robustness and load, et al: a CF programmer or a Flash designer? finally: - one aspect of the community involvement that worries me is the dividing line on who does what - buck passing. An example - CFEclipse: you'd think that the CF dictionary definitions for it would come from Adobe, but no, it's expected that that the community will provide. Why? And CF is a cash cow for Adobe? eh, my 2c only. your mileage may vary. barry.b PS: Mike Chambers a cfaussie member? that's news to me. I'm not knocking this, just surprised he's at all interested in a bunch of CF'ers on the other side of the world... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Subversion - ignore Application.cfm
Can some one please explain how I go about setting up Subversion to ignore Application.cfm? Thank you. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Subversion - ignore Application.cfm
Are you using eclipse, or Tortoise? Eclipse, RMB on the file select team and there you will see add:ignore. Tortoise is something simialt but I don't use it as the current version crashes Vista far to much. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. http://www.aegeon.com.au www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of AJ Mercer Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 12:05 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Subversion - ignore Application.cfm Can some one please explain how I go about setting up Subversion to ignore Application.cfm? Thank you. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
I agree with you Barry. As with the community aspect, I expect there will be Adobe staff assigned to help manage and push the project along, but there will need to be people who are not employed by Adobe to get fully involved. (and they have to be capable and impartial) Adobe will look after their own interest, and once you open source something, you can't un-opensource it, so i believe they would have a detailed plan which they would execute. Ted Patrick's Blog already put down a timeline for the immediate future, I hope for Flex and Adobe's sake they get it right. It is always good for the market to have 2 or more competiting technologies, as it keeps each other honest (in terms of pricing), and both have to constantly innovate. Means cheaper and better stuff faster :) On Apr 27, 11:34 am, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this thread didn't really go where I hoped... Angus Johnson and Andrew Muller got closest (thanx guys) (and it looks like it's degraded into the typical off-topic slanging match that [many people] are well and truly over) so before it collapses into a steaming pile of poo... Getting back to Flex and CF (especially since Flex is for front-end UI's and CF is a server technology) - HTML is as good as dead! well, not really but if you're working on a webapp using far too much DHTML (if it's got tabs and child windows) it'll be as good as redundant and old fashioned in 12 months time. If the company you're working for has no strategy for Flex and will persevere with the same tired old HTML, beat the rush and get out now (IMHO) - AJAX is dead (as above). Except in particular situations why bother when Flex will do it all? (http://developerdispatch.com/?p=253Why ActionScript 3.0 Changes Everything) - Accessibility enhancements (especially with screenreaders like JAWS) has just taken a back-seat. MACR were making good in-roads in this area but still had a way to go. If it's left to the community to drive, it won't get any further. it's just not sexy enough or bring in the revenue to justify continued development. It's like rural pay-phones: needs subsidy from other profitable areas. (Lets face it, AJAX is NOT accessible anyway) - The best IDE we can ever hope for will be no better than FlexBuilder. I was heaps more productive with VB6 than I will ever be with an Eclipse-based IDE. I'd rather have one tool that did it all 100% well than have to juggle a bunch of plug-ins, each working 80% well and each having their own quirks (mark this down to personal preference, I suppose). two more points: I've mentioned this at CFUG's but it's worth repeating: - it's now time for CF'ers to step up to the mark on application design (and this means upskilling from their HTML-based request/response mindset). Who understands more about application development, networking, security, robustness and load, et al: a CF programmer or a Flash designer? finally: - one aspect of the community involvement that worries me is the dividing line on who does what - buck passing. An example - CFEclipse: you'd think that the CF dictionary definitions for it would come from Adobe, but no, it's expected that that the community will provide. Why? And CF is a cash cow for Adobe? eh, my 2c only. your mileage may vary. barry.b PS: Mike Chambers a cfaussie member? that's news to me. I'm not knocking this, just surprised he's at all interested in a bunch of CF'ers on the other side of the world... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
the trouble about making general statements is people arguing the point with edge-cases. yes, there will always be simple sites that use server-generated HTML and there will always be controlled conditions (intranets) that will allow for specialised solutions. and I'm not talking about developing solutions today. - cross-platform is not just an ideal. it's a reality - we ain't seen nothing yet (and this includes productivity) and andrew, I don't disagree with the right person for the right job, but that's not what I was saying. On 4/27/07, Haikal Saadh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pundits Preaching the Passing of HTML have been Persistently Proven Pungent. No one size fits all solution for anything, IMO. Vanilla HTML does somethings very well, and adding fluff, in the form of AJAX/flash wizardry on serves to get in my way. That said, there are things where a liberal sprinkling of ajax makes it much easier to use. And there are also cases where a full blown RIA make sense. Barry Beattie wrote: this thread didn't really go where I hoped... Angus Johnson and Andrew Muller got closest (thanx guys) (and it looks like it's degraded into the typical off-topic slanging match that [many people] are well and truly over) so before it collapses into a steaming pile of poo... Getting back to Flex and CF (especially since Flex is for front-end UI's and CF is a server technology) - HTML is as good as dead! well, not really but if you're working on a webapp using far too much DHTML (if it's got tabs and child windows) it'll be as good as redundant and old fashioned in 12 months time. If the company you're working for has no strategy for Flex and will persevere with the same tired old HTML, beat the rush and get out now (IMHO) - AJAX is dead (as above). Except in particular situations why bother when Flex will do it all? (http://developerdispatch.com/?p=253 Why ActionScript 3.0 Changes Everything) - Accessibility enhancements (especially with screenreaders like JAWS) has just taken a back-seat. MACR were making good in-roads in this area but still had a way to go. If it's left to the community to drive, it won't get any further. it's just not sexy enough or bring in the revenue to justify continued development. It's like rural pay-phones: needs subsidy from other profitable areas. (Lets face it, AJAX is NOT accessible anyway) - The best IDE we can ever hope for will be no better than FlexBuilder. I was heaps more productive with VB6 than I will ever be with an Eclipse-based IDE. I'd rather have one tool that did it all 100% well than have to juggle a bunch of plug-ins, each working 80% well and each having their own quirks (mark this down to personal preference, I suppose). two more points: I've mentioned this at CFUG's but it's worth repeating: - it's now time for CF'ers to step up to the mark on application design (and this means upskilling from their HTML-based request/response mindset). Who understands more about application development, networking, security, robustness and load, et al: a CF programmer or a Flash designer? finally: - one aspect of the community involvement that worries me is the dividing line on who does what - buck passing. An example - CFEclipse: you'd think that the CF dictionary definitions for it would come from Adobe, but no, it's expected that that the community will provide. Why? And CF is a cash cow for Adobe? eh, my 2c only. your mileage may vary. barry.b PS: Mike Chambers a cfaussie member? that's news to me. I'm not knocking this, just surprised he's at all interested in a bunch of CF'ers on the other side of the world... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Yeah, Mike has posted here a few times over the years just very rare. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Subversion - ignore Application.cfm
I am using Eclipse (Aptana) and the Add to SVN:Ignore is disabled I don't see anything similar in tortoiseVN On 4/27/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you using eclipse, or Tortoise? Eclipse, RMB on the file select team and there you will see add:ignore. Tortoise is something simialt but I don't use it as the current version crashes Vista far to much. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *AJ Mercer *Sent:* Friday, 27 April 2007 12:05 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Subversion - ignore Application.cfm Can some one please explain how I go about setting up Subversion to ignore Application.cfm? Thank you. -- If you are not living on the edge, You are taking up too much space. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Subversion - ignore Application.cfm
If you are using Eclipse, and CFEclipse then I suggest getting subversive. You will love that plugin, trust me. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of AJ Mercer Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 12:23 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Subversion - ignore Application.cfm I am using Eclipse (Aptana) and the Add to SVN:Ignore is disabled I don't see anything similar in tortoiseVN On 4/27/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you using eclipse, or Tortoise? Eclipse, RMB on the file select team and there you will see add:ignore. Tortoise is something simialt but I don't use it as the current version crashes Vista far to much. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of AJ Mercer Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 12:05 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Subversion - ignore Application.cfm Can some one please explain how I go about setting up Subversion to ignore Application.cfm? Thank you. -- If you are not living on the edge, You are taking up too much space. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Subversion - ignore Application.cfm
is it better than subClipse? On 4/27/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are using Eclipse, and CFEclipse then I suggest getting subversive. You will love that plugin, trust me. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *AJ Mercer *Sent:* Friday, 27 April 2007 12:23 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: Subversion - ignore Application.cfm I am using Eclipse (Aptana) and the Add to SVN:Ignore is disabled I don't see anything similar in tortoiseVN On 4/27/07, *Andrew Scott* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you using eclipse, or Tortoise? Eclipse, RMB on the file select team and there you will see add:ignore. Tortoise is something simialt but I don't use it as the current version crashes Vista far to much. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *AJ Mercer *Sent:* Friday, 27 April 2007 12:05 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Subversion - ignore Application.cfm Can some one please explain how I go about setting up Subversion to ignore Application.cfm? Thank you. -- If you are not living on the edge, You are taking up too much space. -- If you are not living on the edge, You are taking up too much space. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
On 4/27/07, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
this thread didn't really go where I hoped... Angus Johnson and Andrew
Muller got closest (thanx guys)
My bad :)
(and it looks like it's degraded into the typical off-topic slanging
match that [many people] are well and truly over)
He started it... heh
so before it collapses into a steaming pile of poo... Getting back to
Flex and CF (especially since Flex is for front-end UI's and CF is a
server technology)
:)
- HTML is as good as dead! well, not really but if you're working on
a webapp using far too much DHTML (if it's got tabs and child windows)
it'll be as good as redundant and old fashioned in 12 months time. If
the company you're working for has no strategy for Flex and will
persevere with the same tired old HTML, beat the rush and get out now
(IMHO)
Disagree, 12 months ago I would of said You tell em bazza but after
joining Microsoft and working with all flavour so the industry through
roadshows, meetings, conferences etc .. HTML isn't dead, it' just not
the water cool talking points is all. Expression Web got a bucket load
of interest which I have to admit, suprised me. HTML's still got some
life in it yet...
- AJAX is dead (as above). Except in particular situations why bother
when Flex will do it all? (http://developerdispatch.com/?p=253 Why
ActionScript 3.0 Changes Everything)
Again, 12 months ago You tell em Bazza i've always been vocal on
AJAX being a one trick pony. Yet, I was jacked into a seat, pay cheque
in one hand and a Learn ASP.NET 2.0 in the other... The bad people
touched me.. At anyrate, I came to a sudden realisation that ASP.net +
AJAX Toolkit @ Microsoft is actually probably a FLEX competitor in
terms of Formcentric Applications. I know that's a kick off to a
warfare, but it occured to be that coding in ASP.NET 2.0 is similiar
to coding stuff in MXML and when you need to bind a behaviour to a
button, you do so in C#. Yet you get this weird un easy feeling like
Hang on, I just went server-side... i'll be damned. Throw in AJAX
and you just went serverside but it was working client-side? there is
no seperation it does a great job at masking this seperation tier
whilst still complying with MVC (want to know more, you'll have to
grab me after a UG for a beer as it's worth the chat).
So what's this got to do with the subject at hand, given that there a
millions of .NET developers world wide, moving into AJAX is simpistic,
an afterthought as its heavily backed by the Tools and Server-side
goodness. Given Silverlight is a further extension of ASP.NET 2.0 +
AJAX life does get interesting in this space. In Silverlight you can
mix your HTML + XAML code together using the getElementById('')
structure to it and.. well more after MIX07 on Monday :)
So AJAX is far from dead, in fact I read somewhere today (damn it
can't find the paper) but RIA = AJAX was the common thought .. Adobe
will buck on that one, but I did read it.
- Accessibility enhancements (especially with screenreaders like JAWS)
has just taken a back-seat. MACR were making good in-roads in this
area but still had a way to go. If it's left to the community to
drive, it won't get any further. it's just not sexy enough or bring in
the revenue to justify continued development. It's like rural
pay-phones: needs subsidy from other profitable areas. (Lets face it,
AJAX is NOT accessible anyway)
Hold that thought...
- The best IDE we can ever hope for will be no better than
FlexBuilder. I was heaps more productive with VB6 than I will ever be
with an Eclipse-based IDE. I'd rather have one tool that did it all
100% well than have to juggle a bunch of plug-ins, each working 80%
well and each having their own quirks (mark this down to personal
preference, I suppose).
Well nothing is stopping you from building a FLEX builder in Visual
Studio, rumour has it the WebORB folks were hatching that notion...
rumour that is...
two more points:
I've mentioned this at CFUG's but it's worth repeating:
- it's now time for CF'ers to step up to the mark on application
design (and this means upskilling from their HTML-based
request/response mindset). Who understands more about application
development, networking, security, robustness and load, et al: a CF
programmer or a Flash designer?
Yeah, I think you guys need to branch out some more. I didn't enjoy
ASP.NET initially but now i'm ok with it, i'm fine using both
technologies and I'd have to say choosing between the two would be a
flip of a coin :) that's how neutral i am them.
finally:
- one aspect of the community involvement that worries me is the
dividing line on who does what - buck passing. An example - CFEclipse:
you'd think that the CF dictionary definitions for it would come from
Adobe, but no, it's expected that that the community will provide.
Why? And CF is a cash cow for Adobe?
Nah :) it's not. I won't say what I know about CF Stats as it will
annoy some here (rightly so,
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Yeah. I have been on for some time, mostly to keep up with any discussions about Flex and Apollo. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andrew Scott wrote: Yeah, Mike has posted here a few times over the years just very rare. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: FLEX 2 - text item not being recognised
Problem Solved. Error just before keyboard. Cheers On Apr 27, 11:46 am, Allan Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a Panel control with multiple text and label controls within. I am able to assign values to the text property of these controls in via a function in an external actionscript file. I have now added a new text control to the panel and I am unable to assign a value to its text property. In actionscript when I type in the control name and enter the . I get a drop down of properties and methods to select. For this new text control I get nothing. Its as if it does not exist on the page. Any thoughts or suggestions. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex. I started a project about 2 months ago which was only going to take a few weeks. Without going into a massive post about the project we found a need to try out some Flex. I was Whoa stoked. We started off very small a simple form posting to a database. My background is mainly CF so I tackled Flex like a CF programmer would. It's sad to say that I totally under estimated the complexity of programming Flex. Now guys/gals, this page was the most BASIC page you could imagine. Where I felt Adobe let me down was the fact that all their PR explained how easy it was to pick up the Flex language. What they don't tell you is that you REALLY need to know OO and you REALLY need to have a good framework. The lack of examples in which I personally learn from is so limited that it left me shell shocked. When I learned ColdFusion it was SO much easier. Ben Forta is my friend! And of course this list bailed me out a number of times. Adobe are constantly pushing the fact that 9x% use flash player and video format is taking off. Then how come Adobe doesn't utlise this and create tutorials on how to use their products!? The company I work for is Huge and the amount of time that I wasted trying to achieve the most basic results I could have done 10 times quicker in ColdFusion AND .NET twice over. The sad fact of the matter is I will never recommend Flex to any programmer or company that I deal with again. So I hope that making Flex open-source will help bridge the massive learning curve that developers will encounter. Flex had so much potential and that I personally feel its fallin flat on its vector based face. Jeremy --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Did a blog post, http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2007/04/27/flex-open-source-what-s-changed.aspx There will be complaints hehe. On 4/27/07, Blair McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You shouldn't assume that open source = open contributions. Open source means only one thing - the source code is publicly available. It does NOT mean that Adobe is going to allow community contributions to the core code base. In fact I would say that it is very unlikely that Flex will be opened that much, if only because it would muddy the copyright/commercial situation too much. Blair On 4/27/07, KC Kuok [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with you Barry. As with the community aspect, I expect there will be Adobe staff assigned to help manage and push the project along, but there will need to be people who are not employed by Adobe to get fully involved. (and they have to be capable and impartial) Adobe will look after their own interest, and once you open source something, you can't un-opensource it, so i believe they would have a detailed plan which they would execute. Ted Patrick's Blog already put down a timeline for the immediate future, I hope for Flex and Adobe's sake they get it right. It is always good for the market to have 2 or more competiting technologies, as it keeps each other honest (in terms of pricing), and both have to constantly innovate. Means cheaper and better stuff faster :) On Apr 27, 11:34 am, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this thread didn't really go where I hoped... Angus Johnson and Andrew Muller got closest (thanx guys) (and it looks like it's degraded into the typical off-topic slanging match that [many people] are well and truly over) so before it collapses into a steaming pile of poo... Getting back to Flex and CF (especially since Flex is for front-end UI's and CF is a server technology) - HTML is as good as dead! well, not really but if you're working on a webapp using far too much DHTML (if it's got tabs and child windows) it'll be as good as redundant and old fashioned in 12 months time. If the company you're working for has no strategy for Flex and will persevere with the same tired old HTML, beat the rush and get out now (IMHO) - AJAX is dead (as above). Except in particular situations why bother when Flex will do it all? ( http://developerdispatch.com/?p=253Why ActionScript 3.0 Changes Everything) - Accessibility enhancements (especially with screenreaders like JAWS) has just taken a back-seat. MACR were making good in-roads in this area but still had a way to go. If it's left to the community to drive, it won't get any further. it's just not sexy enough or bring in the revenue to justify continued development. It's like rural pay-phones: needs subsidy from other profitable areas. (Lets face it, AJAX is NOT accessible anyway) - The best IDE we can ever hope for will be no better than FlexBuilder. I was heaps more productive with VB6 than I will ever be with an Eclipse-based IDE. I'd rather have one tool that did it all 100% well than have to juggle a bunch of plug-ins, each working 80% well and each having their own quirks (mark this down to personal preference, I suppose). two more points: I've mentioned this at CFUG's but it's worth repeating: - it's now time for CF'ers to step up to the mark on application design (and this means upskilling from their HTML-based request/response mindset). Who understands more about application development, networking, security, robustness and load, et al: a CF programmer or a Flash designer? finally: - one aspect of the community involvement that worries me is the dividing line on who does what - buck passing. An example - CFEclipse: you'd think that the CF dictionary definitions for it would come from Adobe, but no, it's expected that that the community will provide. Why? And CF is a cash cow for Adobe? eh, my 2c only. your mileage may vary. barry.b PS: Mike Chambers a cfaussie member? that's news to me. I'm not knocking this, just surprised he's at all interested in a bunch of CF'ers on the other side of the world... -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
fyi We will be allowing contributions. This is mentioned in the FAQ: http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Flex:Open_Source:FAQ#Will_Adobe_be_allowing_external_developers_as_committers_to_the_project.3F mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blair McKenzie wrote: You shouldn't assume that open source = open contributions. Open source means only one thing - the source code is publicly available. It does NOT mean that Adobe is going to allow community contributions to the core code base. In fact I would say that it is very unlikely that Flex will be opened that much, if only because it would muddy the copyright/commercial situation too much. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Interesting. Blair On 4/27/07, Mike Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: fyi We will be allowing contributions. This is mentioned in the FAQ: http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Flex:Open_Source:FAQ#Will_Adobe_be_allowing_external_developers_as_committers_to_the_project.3F mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blair McKenzie wrote: You shouldn't assume that open source = open contributions. Open source means only one thing - the source code is publicly available. It does NOT mean that Adobe is going to allow community contributions to the core code base. In fact I would say that it is very unlikely that Flex will be opened that much, if only because it would muddy the copyright/commercial situation too much. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] OT: oracle 8i
anyone know where i can get a working copy of oracle 8i? if someone has original install cds i have no problem paying and get them couriered. i've got this nightmare project where i'm migrating a sql server 2000 db to ora8i, and my dev environment is ora10g. nuts. oh and i don't have direct access to the 8i instances either - i have to submit the sql scripts and hope that they work. so i'm wondering if someone has 8i that i can setup on my DE and do some real debugging. any solutions offered are appreciated. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
i agree, learning actionscript was like that. adobe/mm just don't do good developer cultivation. On 27/04/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex. I started a project about 2 months ago which was only going to take a few weeks. Without going into a massive post about the project we found a need to try out some Flex. I was Whoa stoked. We started off very small a simple form posting to a database. My background is mainly CF so I tackled Flex like a CF programmer would. It's sad to say that I totally under estimated the complexity of programming Flex. Now guys/gals, this page was the most BASIC page you could imagine. Where I felt Adobe let me down was the fact that all their PR explained how easy it was to pick up the Flex language. What they don't tell you is that you REALLY need to know OO and you REALLY need to have a good framework. The lack of examples in which I personally learn from is so limited that it left me shell shocked. When I learned ColdFusion it was SO much easier. Ben Forta is my friend! And of course this list bailed me out a number of times. Adobe are constantly pushing the fact that 9x% use flash player and video format is taking off. Then how come Adobe doesn't utlise this and create tutorials on how to use their products!? The company I work for is Huge and the amount of time that I wasted trying to achieve the most basic results I could have done 10 times quicker in ColdFusion AND .NET twice over. The sad fact of the matter is I will never recommend Flex to any programmer or company that I deal with again. So I hope that making Flex open-source will help bridge the massive learning curve that developers will encounter. Flex had so much potential and that I personally feel its fallin flat on its vector based face. Jeremy --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
I got some Flex 3 books i can hand out btw? On 4/27/07, grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i agree, learning actionscript was like that. adobe/mm just don't do good developer cultivation. On 27/04/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex. I started a project about 2 months ago which was only going to take a few weeks. Without going into a massive post about the project we found a need to try out some Flex. I was Whoa stoked. We started off very small a simple form posting to a database. My background is mainly CF so I tackled Flex like a CF programmer would. It's sad to say that I totally under estimated the complexity of programming Flex. Now guys/gals, this page was the most BASIC page you could imagine. Where I felt Adobe let me down was the fact that all their PR explained how easy it was to pick up the Flex language. What they don't tell you is that you REALLY need to know OO and you REALLY need to have a good framework. The lack of examples in which I personally learn from is so limited that it left me shell shocked. When I learned ColdFusion it was SO much easier. Ben Forta is my friend! And of course this list bailed me out a number of times. Adobe are constantly pushing the fact that 9x% use flash player and video format is taking off. Then how come Adobe doesn't utlise this and create tutorials on how to use their products!? The company I work for is Huge and the amount of time that I wasted trying to achieve the most basic results I could have done 10 times quicker in ColdFusion AND .NET twice over. The sad fact of the matter is I will never recommend Flex to any programmer or company that I deal with again. So I hope that making Flex open-source will help bridge the massive learning curve that developers will encounter. Flex had so much potential and that I personally feel its fallin flat on its vector based face. Jeremy -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
Hi Jeremy I'd agree that there is quite a learning curve for Flex. The framework is very comprehensive, lots of classes and it's easy to get lost. It's also object oriented and there are some concepts such as event handling that can do your head in at times. It's also significantly different to CF. Having said that I think Flex is like any new language. You've gotta spend the time learning it. Maybe Adobe PR did oversell it's simplicity. What sort of application was it? Certainly don't start a critical Flex project without going through some training first but a single pager app should be nailed easily. I'm really interested in what sort of tutorials would cover the gap. Can you be more specific ie topics for learning. I'd be happy to write some myself. There are pretty good support materials out there. Flexcoders mailing list namely. Also half a dozen books have been published now on Flex, a bunch of training videos from Lynda and Training from the Source and literally hundreds of custom components, example code, blogs and so on. By framework do you mean Cairngorm or ARF? Frameworks for big projects, Flex event handling for small. Jeremy, don't give up on Flex just yet. There's a touch of early adopter / bleeding edge with Flex but it's bedding down quite nicely. You've only got to look at the cf job ads asking about Flex experience to know where we're heading. Angus On 27/04/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex. I started a project about 2 months ago which was only going to take a few weeks. Without going into a massive post about the project we found a need to try out some Flex. I was Whoa stoked. We started off very small a simple form posting to a database. My background is mainly CF so I tackled Flex like a CF programmer would. It's sad to say that I totally under estimated the complexity of programming Flex. Now guys/gals, this page was the most BASIC page you could imagine. Where I felt Adobe let me down was the fact that all their PR explained how easy it was to pick up the Flex language. What they don't tell you is that you REALLY need to know OO and you REALLY need to have a good framework. The lack of examples in which I personally learn from is so limited that it left me shell shocked. When I learned ColdFusion it was SO much easier. Ben Forta is my friend! And of course this list bailed me out a number of times. Adobe are constantly pushing the fact that 9x% use flash player and video format is taking off. Then how come Adobe doesn't utlise this and create tutorials on how to use their products!? The company I work for is Huge and the amount of time that I wasted trying to achieve the most basic results I could have done 10 times quicker in ColdFusion AND .NET twice over. The sad fact of the matter is I will never recommend Flex to any programmer or company that I deal with again. So I hope that making Flex open-source will help bridge the massive learning curve that developers will encounter. Flex had so much potential and that I personally feel its fallin flat on its vector based face. Jeremy -- http://allthgo.com Phone: +61 (0) 7 3857 3880 Mobile: +61 (0) 409 721 701 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
cool - send one our way, I am sure that you don't need em anymore... Oh, I have an old Javascript book here that we don't use anymore, wanna swap? On 4/27/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I got some Flex 3 books i can hand out btw? On 4/27/07, grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i agree, learning actionscript was like that. adobe/mm just don't do good developer cultivation. On 27/04/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex. I started a project about 2 months ago which was only going to take a few weeks. Without going into a massive post about the project we found a need to try out some Flex. I was Whoa stoked. We started off very small a simple form posting to a database. My background is mainly CF so I tackled Flex like a CF programmer would. It's sad to say that I totally under estimated the complexity of programming Flex. Now guys/gals, this page was the most BASIC page you could imagine. Where I felt Adobe let me down was the fact that all their PR explained how easy it was to pick up the Flex language. What they don't tell you is that you REALLY need to know OO and you REALLY need to have a good framework. The lack of examples in which I personally learn from is so limited that it left me shell shocked. When I learned ColdFusion it was SO much easier. Ben Forta is my friend! And of course this list bailed me out a number of times. Adobe are constantly pushing the fact that 9x% use flash player and video format is taking off. Then how come Adobe doesn't utlise this and create tutorials on how to use their products!? The company I work for is Huge and the amount of time that I wasted trying to achieve the most basic results I could have done 10 times quicker in ColdFusion AND .NET twice over. The sad fact of the matter is I will never recommend Flex to any programmer or company that I deal with again. So I hope that making Flex open-source will help bridge the massive learning curve that developers will encounter. Flex had so much potential and that I personally feel its fallin flat on its vector based face. Jeremy -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com -- Lucas http://www.thebitbucket.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
So let me get this straight. You set an expectation of how long it would take to complete a project in software you are not familiar with and now your disappointed because your expectation was not met. Please, spare me... On 27/04/2007, at 2:05 PM, Lucas wrote: cool - send one our way, I am sure that you don't need em anymore... Oh, I have an old Javascript book here that we don't use anymore, wanna swap? On 4/27/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I got some Flex 3 books i can hand out btw? On 4/27/07, grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i agree, learning actionscript was like that. adobe/mm just don't do good developer cultivation. On 27/04/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex. I started a project about 2 months ago which was only going to take a few weeks. Without going into a massive post about the project we found a need to try out some Flex. I was Whoa stoked. We started off very small a simple form posting to a database. My background is mainly CF so I tackled Flex like a CF programmer would. It's sad to say that I totally under estimated the complexity of programming Flex. Now guys/gals, this page was the most BASIC page you could imagine. Where I felt Adobe let me down was the fact that all their PR explained how easy it was to pick up the Flex language. What they don't tell you is that you REALLY need to know OO and you REALLY need to have a good framework. The lack of examples in which I personally learn from is so limited that it left me shell shocked. When I learned ColdFusion it was SO much easier. Ben Forta is my friend! And of course this list bailed me out a number of times. Adobe are constantly pushing the fact that 9x% use flash player and video format is taking off. Then how come Adobe doesn't utlise this and create tutorials on how to use their products!? The company I work for is Huge and the amount of time that I wasted trying to achieve the most basic results I could have done 10 times quicker in ColdFusion AND .NET twice over. The sad fact of the matter is I will never recommend Flex to any programmer or company that I deal with again. So I hope that making Flex open-source will help bridge the massive learning curve that developers will encounter. Flex had so much potential and that I personally feel its fallin flat on its vector based face. Jeremy -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com Regards, Bjorn Schultheiss Senior Developer Personalised Communication Power Level 2, 31 Coventry St. South Melbourne 3205, VIC Australia T: +61 3 9674 7400 F: +61 3 9645 9160 W: http://www.qdc.net.au ((This transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you believe you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender.---)) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Subversion - ignore Application.cfm
Yes. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of AJ Mercer Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 12:34 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Subversion - ignore Application.cfm is it better than subClipse? On 4/27/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are using Eclipse, and CFEclipse then I suggest getting subversive. You will love that plugin, trust me. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of AJ Mercer Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 12:23 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Subversion - ignore Application.cfm I am using Eclipse (Aptana) and the Add to SVN:Ignore is disabled I don't see anything similar in tortoiseVN On 4/27/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you using eclipse, or Tortoise? Eclipse, RMB on the file select team and there you will see add:ignore. Tortoise is something simialt but I don't use it as the current version crashes Vista far to much. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of AJ Mercer Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 12:05 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Subversion - ignore Application.cfm Can some one please explain how I go about setting up Subversion to ignore Application.cfm? Thank you. -- If you are not living on the edge, You are taking up too much space. -- If you are not living on the edge, You are taking up too much space. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
Bah :) no such thing is a perfectly executed project in software, we are all humans. Flex is RAD initially but it hurts after you want to get deeper into mucking about with the code base. I blame mix-ins to be honest (decorater pattern) as it's quite confusing for the untrained folks. Secondly, what company is going to say let Jeremy sit on Flex for 6 months to get up to speed on it? I see this quite a lot in the years of doing FLEX, I actually used to get a lot of my work bailing out the Jeremy's so it's not isolated :) Personally if both Adobe or Micosoft can't get the Jeremy''s of this world up to speed in under 6 months with GUI tier development, we failed. We need to work harder.. On 4/27/07, Bjorn Schultheiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So let me get this straight. You set an expectation of how long it would take to complete a project in software you are not familiar with and now your disappointed because your expectation was not met. Please, spare me... On 27/04/2007, at 2:05 PM, Lucas wrote: cool - send one our way, I am sure that you don't need em anymore... Oh, I have an old Javascript book here that we don't use anymore, wanna swap? On 4/27/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I got some Flex 3 books i can hand out btw? On 4/27/07, grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i agree, learning actionscript was like that. adobe/mm just don't do good developer cultivation. On 27/04/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex. I started a project about 2 months ago which was only going to take a few weeks. Without going into a massive post about the project we found a need to try out some Flex. I was Whoa stoked. We started off very small a simple form posting to a database. My background is mainly CF so I tackled Flex like a CF programmer would. It's sad to say that I totally under estimated the complexity of programming Flex. Now guys/gals, this page was the most BASIC page you could imagine. Where I felt Adobe let me down was the fact that all their PR explained how easy it was to pick up the Flex language. What they don't tell you is that you REALLY need to know OO and you REALLY need to have a good framework. The lack of examples in which I personally learn from is so limited that it left me shell shocked. When I learned ColdFusion it was SO much easier. Ben Forta is my friend! And of course this list bailed me out a number of times. Adobe are constantly pushing the fact that 9x% use flash player and video format is taking off. Then how come Adobe doesn't utlise this and create tutorials on how to use their products!? The company I work for is Huge and the amount of time that I wasted trying to achieve the most basic results I could have done 10 times quicker in ColdFusion AND .NET twice over. The sad fact of the matter is I will never recommend Flex to any programmer or company that I deal with again. So I hope that making Flex open-source will help bridge the massive learning curve that developers will encounter. Flex had so much potential and that I personally feel its fallin flat on its vector based face. Jeremy -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com Regards, Bjorn Schultheiss Senior Developer [image: QDC] Personalised Communication Power Level 2, 31 Coventry St. South Melbourne 3205, VIC Australia T: +61 3 9674 7400 F: +61 3 9645 9160 W: http://www.qdc.net.au ((This transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you believe you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender.---)) -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
It's easier to learn coming from a Java or Flash background. If your lucky enough for a company to pay you for 6 months while you learn any software, all the best. But to set commercial deadlines on such a proposal, madness.. On 27/04/2007, at 2:18 PM, Scott Barnes wrote: Bah :) no such thing is a perfectly executed project in software, we are all humans. Flex is RAD initially but it hurts after you want to get deeper into mucking about with the code base. I blame mix-ins to be honest (decorater pattern) as it's quite confusing for the untrained folks. Secondly, what company is going to say let Jeremy sit on Flex for 6 months to get up to speed on it? I see this quite a lot in the years of doing FLEX, I actually used to get a lot of my work bailing out the Jeremy's so it's not isolated :) Personally if both Adobe or Micosoft can't get the Jeremy''s of this world up to speed in under 6 months with GUI tier development, we failed. We need to work harder.. On 4/27/07, Bjorn Schultheiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So let me get this straight. You set an expectation of how long it would take to complete a project in software you are not familiar with and now your disappointed because your expectation was not met. Please, spare me... On 27/04/2007, at 2:05 PM, Lucas wrote: cool - send one our way, I am sure that you don't need em anymore... Oh, I have an old Javascript book here that we don't use anymore, wanna swap? On 4/27/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I got some Flex 3 books i can hand out btw? On 4/27/07, grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i agree, learning actionscript was like that. adobe/mm just don't do good developer cultivation. On 27/04/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex. I started a project about 2 months ago which was only going to take a few weeks. Without going into a massive post about the project we found a need to try out some Flex. I was Whoa stoked. We started off very small a simple form posting to a database. My background is mainly CF so I tackled Flex like a CF programmer would. It's sad to say that I totally under estimated the complexity of programming Flex. Now guys/gals, this page was the most BASIC page you could imagine. Where I felt Adobe let me down was the fact that all their PR explained how easy it was to pick up the Flex language. What they don't tell you is that you REALLY need to know OO and you REALLY need to have a good framework. The lack of examples in which I personally learn from is so limited that it left me shell shocked. When I learned ColdFusion it was SO much easier. Ben Forta is my friend! And of course this list bailed me out a number of times. Adobe are constantly pushing the fact that 9x% use flash player and video format is taking off. Then how come Adobe doesn't utlise this and create tutorials on how to use their products!? The company I work for is Huge and the amount of time that I wasted trying to achieve the most basic results I could have done 10 times quicker in ColdFusion AND .NET twice over. The sad fact of the matter is I will never recommend Flex to any programmer or company that I deal with again. So I hope that making Flex open-source will help bridge the massive learning curve that developers will encounter. Flex had so much potential and that I personally feel its fallin flat on its vector based face. Jeremy -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com Regards, Bjorn Schultheiss Senior Developer Personalised Communication Power Level 2, 31 Coventry St. South Melbourne 3205, VIC Australia T: +61 3 9674 7400 F: +61 3 9645 9160 W: http://www.qdc.net.au ((This transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you believe you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender.---)) Regards, Bjorn Schultheiss Senior Developer Personalised Communication Power Level 2, 31 Coventry St. South Melbourne 3205, VIC Australia T: +61 3 9674 7400 F: +61 3 9645 9160 W: http://www.qdc.net.au ((This transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Scott, I knew it would not be long for you to voice your opinion on your blog. But let's take a step back for a minute, Adobe have done a great job with Flex as Macromedia before them. But one thing that seems to be missing and Scott you touched on it, but I do not think that you fully looked into it. I see the Open Source a great positive approach to reducing their developers, and development time and resources. This isn't very evident, except that the Apollo source went this way for the same reason, in my eyes anyway to give the teams developing the browsers the opportunity to incorporate Apollo support, I see no difference with this approach and Flex support in browsers. And the stupid thing we have a M$ evangelist sitting here, and making a comment about this and a comment about that. But have you once put the respective back on your own Employer at all? Microsoft when they announced WP/F already stated that they would not develop, past their own OS. Now this may have changed in time, but what M$ was actually saying is that although we will not support unix, mac or whatever here is the source code and if anyone wants to develop for those platforms then that would be good. This is no different to Adobe, except they already have that platform independence where M$ do not. And the added bonus, of opening the source up is allowing for more product integration than ever before. There is nothing stopping people from integrating a better support of flex into CF than ever before now, and the beauty is that it will not be Adobe investing in that. It becomes open to others to look at this option, taking the pressure away from Adobe's developers who can go and work on other bigger and better things in the meantime. And of course I could be wrong too But Scott, you really need to look in your own backyard first Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Hey Scotty, When will microsoft be open sourcing wpf :) On 27/04/2007, at 2:32 PM, Andrew Scott wrote: Scott, I knew it would not be long for you to voice your opinion on your blog. But let's take a step back for a minute, Adobe have done a great job with Flex as Macromedia before them. But one thing that seems to be missing and Scott you touched on it, but I do not think that you fully looked into it. I see the Open Source a great positive approach to reducing their developers, and development time and resources. This isn't very evident, except that the Apollo source went this way for the same reason, in my eyes anyway to give the teams developing the browsers the opportunity to incorporate Apollo support, I see no difference with this approach and Flex support in browsers. And the stupid thing we have a M$ evangelist sitting here, and making a comment about this and a comment about that. But have you once put the respective back on your own Employer at all? Microsoft when they announced WP/F already stated that they would not develop, past their own OS. Now this may have changed in time, but what M$ was actually saying is that although we will not support unix, mac or whatever here is the source code and if anyone wants to develop for those platforms then that would be good. This is no different to Adobe, except they already have that platform independence where M$ do not. And the added bonus, of opening the source up is allowing for more product integration than ever before. There is nothing stopping people from integrating a better support of flex into CF than ever before now, and the beauty is that it will not be Adobe investing in that. It becomes open to others to look at this option, taking the pressure away from Adobe's developers who can go and work on other bigger and better things in the meantime. And of course I could be wrong too But Scott, you really need to look in your own backyard first Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 Regards, Bjorn Schultheiss Senior Developer Personalised Communication Power Level 2, 31 Coventry St. South Melbourne 3205, VIC Australia T: +61 3 9674 7400 F: +61 3 9645 9160 W: http://www.qdc.net.au ((This transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you believe you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender.---)) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
Hi Angus, What sort of application was it? A very basic calculation application. i.e. I fill out textbox one, textbox two and textbox three shows the calculated result, then insert into the database. I know about all the lists, I used them as well. What I found their is that most of the people on the list are learning as well so although sometimes the answers/suggestions worked, most of the time they didn't. I'm really interested in what sort of tutorials would cover the gap. Can you be more specific ie topics for learning. I'd be happy to write some myself. Well first and foremost how to lay out an application. I know of Cairngorm or ARF, but I found is that the complexity of them are so full on the time it would take would far out weigh what I had to deal with, that said I had some help with a mixature of the two from someone (whom I can't mention top secret stuff). And I think Angus you nailed it on the head when you said It's also significantly different to CF. So in terms of that perhaps a Guide to move your code from CF to Flex - Validation - Inserting Data into the database - Understanding MVC from a ColdFusion Perspective - What is OO? - Why write is ActionScript Compared to mx:Tags etc. I know heaps of CF'ers whom really want to use Flex but the learning curve is so huge that it scares them off. Hell I even know .NET programmers who would Like to use it but I tell them...No garry no! I'm not giving up on it but I'm definantly not going to recommend it again. Jeremy P.S. And for the jobs that are out their... .NET far out weighs any CF jobs. Unfortuantly. If I'm going to spend time learning another language its going to be that. On Apr 27, 1:53 pm, Angus Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jeremy I'd agree that there is quite a learning curve for Flex. The framework is very comprehensive, lots of classes and it's easy to get lost. It's also object oriented and there are some concepts such as event handling that can do your head in at times. It's also significantly different to CF. Having said that I think Flex is like any new language. You've gotta spend the time learning it. Maybe Adobe PR did oversell it's simplicity. What sort of application was it? Certainly don't start a critical Flex project without going through some training first but a single pager app should be nailed easily. I'm really interested in what sort of tutorials would cover the gap. Can you be more specific ie topics for learning. I'd be happy to write some myself. There are pretty good support materials out there. Flexcoders mailing list namely. Also half a dozen books have been published now on Flex, a bunch of training videos from Lynda and Training from the Source and literally hundreds of custom components, example code, blogs and so on. By framework do you mean Cairngorm or ARF? Frameworks for big projects, Flex event handling for small. Jeremy, don't give up on Flex just yet. There's a touch of early adopter / bleeding edge with Flex but it's bedding down quite nicely. You've only got to look at the cf job ads asking about Flex experience to know where we're heading. Angus On 27/04/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex. I started a project about 2 months ago which was only going to take a few weeks. Without going into a massive post about the project we found a need to try out some Flex. I was Whoa stoked. We started off very small a simple form posting to a database. My background is mainly CF so I tackled Flex like a CF programmer would. It's sad to say that I totally under estimated the complexity of programming Flex. Now guys/gals, this page was the most BASIC page you could imagine. Where I felt Adobe let me down was the fact that all their PR explained how easy it was to pick up the Flex language. What they don't tell you is that you REALLY need to know OO and you REALLY need to have a good framework. The lack of examples in which I personally learn from is so limited that it left me shell shocked. When I learned ColdFusion it was SO much easier. Ben Forta is my friend! And of course this list bailed me out a number of times. Adobe are constantly pushing the fact that 9x% use flash player and video format is taking off. Then how come Adobe doesn't utlise this and create tutorials on how to use their products!? The company I work for is Huge and the amount of time that I wasted trying to achieve the most basic results I could have done 10 times quicker in ColdFusion AND .NET twice over. The sad fact of the matter is I will never recommend Flex to any programmer or company that I deal with again. So I hope that making Flex open-source will help bridge the massive learning curve that developers will encounter.
[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe Flex let me down
Word! Jeremy On Apr 27, 2:18 pm, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bah :) no such thing is a perfectly executed project in software, we are all humans. Flex is RAD initially but it hurts after you want to get deeper into mucking about with the code base. I blame mix-ins to be honest (decorater pattern) as it's quite confusing for the untrained folks. Secondly, what company is going to say let Jeremy sit on Flex for 6 months to get up to speed on it? I see this quite a lot in the years of doing FLEX, I actually used to get a lot of my work bailing out the Jeremy's so it's not isolated :) Personally if both Adobe or Micosoft can't get the Jeremy''s of this world up to speed in under 6 months with GUI tier development, we failed. We need to work harder.. On 4/27/07, Bjorn Schultheiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So let me get this straight. You set an expectation of how long it would take to complete a project in software you are not familiar with and now your disappointed because your expectation was not met. Please, spare me... On 27/04/2007, at 2:05 PM, Lucas wrote: cool - send one our way, I am sure that you don't need em anymore... Oh, I have an old Javascript book here that we don't use anymore, wanna swap? On 4/27/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I got some Flex 3 books i can hand out btw? On 4/27/07, grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i agree, learning actionscript was like that. adobe/mm just don't do good developer cultivation. On 27/04/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex. I started a project about 2 months ago which was only going to take a few weeks. Without going into a massive post about the project we found a need to try out some Flex. I was Whoa stoked. We started off very small a simple form posting to a database. My background is mainly CF so I tackled Flex like a CF programmer would. It's sad to say that I totally under estimated the complexity of programming Flex. Now guys/gals, this page was the most BASIC page you could imagine. Where I felt Adobe let me down was the fact that all their PR explained how easy it was to pick up the Flex language. What they don't tell you is that you REALLY need to know OO and you REALLY need to have a good framework. The lack of examples in which I personally learn from is so limited that it left me shell shocked. When I learned ColdFusion it was SO much easier. Ben Forta is my friend! And of course this list bailed me out a number of times. Adobe are constantly pushing the fact that 9x% use flash player and video format is taking off. Then how come Adobe doesn't utlise this and create tutorials on how to use their products!? The company I work for is Huge and the amount of time that I wasted trying to achieve the most basic results I could have done 10 times quicker in ColdFusion AND .NET twice over. The sad fact of the matter is I will never recommend Flex to any programmer or company that I deal with again. So I hope that making Flex open-source will help bridge the massive learning curve that developers will encounter. Flex had so much potential and that I personally feel its fallin flat on its vector based face. Jeremy -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com Regards, Bjorn Schultheiss Senior Developer [image: QDC] Personalised Communication Power Level 2, 31 Coventry St. South Melbourne 3205, VIC Australia T: +61 3 9674 7400 F: +61 3 9645 9160 W: http://www.qdc.net.au ((This transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you believe you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender.---)) -- Regards, Scott Barneshttp://www.mossyblog.com- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
http://www.codeplex.com/Project/ProjectDirectory.aspx?TagName=WPF We do enough in the OS space we don't always chase headlines for it ;) On 4/27/07, Bjorn Schultheiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Scotty, When will microsoft be open sourcing wpf :) On 27/04/2007, at 2:32 PM, Andrew Scott wrote: Scott, I knew it would not be long for you to voice your opinion on your blog. But let's take a step back for a minute, Adobe have done a great job with Flex as Macromedia before them. But one thing that seems to be missing and Scott you touched on it, but I do not think that you fully looked into it. I see the Open Source a great positive approach to reducing their developers, and development time and resources. This isn't very evident, except that the Apollo source went this way for the same reason, in my eyes anyway to give the teams developing the browsers the opportunity to incorporate Apollo support, I see no difference with this approach and Flex support in browsers. And the stupid thing we have a M$ evangelist sitting here, and making a comment about this and a comment about that. But have you once put the respective back on your own Employer at all? Microsoft when they announced WP/F already stated that they would not develop, past their own OS. Now this may have changed in time, but what M$ was actually saying is that although we will not support unix, mac or whatever here is the source code and if anyone wants to develop for those platforms then that would be good. This is no different to Adobe, except they already have that platform independence where M$ do not. And the added bonus, of opening the source up is allowing for more product integration than ever before. There is nothing stopping people from integrating a better support of flex into CF than ever before now, and the beauty is that it will not be Adobe investing in that. It becomes open to others to look at this option, taking the pressure away from Adobe's developers who can go and work on other bigger and better things in the meantime. And of course I could be wrong too But Scott, you really need to look in your own backyard first Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 Regards, Bjorn Schultheiss Senior Developer [image: QDC] Personalised Communication Power Level 2, 31 Coventry St. South Melbourne 3205, VIC Australia T: +61 3 9674 7400 F: +61 3 9645 9160 W: http://www.qdc.net.au ((This transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you believe you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender.---)) -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Actually that's not true, WP/F was announced to chase headlines as you put it at the beginning of last year. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 3:06 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd] http://www.codeplex.com/Project/ProjectDirectory.aspx?TagName=WPF We do enough in the OS space we don't always chase headlines for it ;) On 4/27/07, Bjorn Schultheiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Scotty, When will microsoft be open sourcing wpf :) On 27/04/2007, at 2:32 PM, Andrew Scott wrote: Scott, I knew it would not be long for you to voice your opinion on your blog. But let's take a step back for a minute, Adobe have done a great job with Flex as Macromedia before them. But one thing that seems to be missing and Scott you touched on it, but I do not think that you fully looked into it. I see the Open Source a great positive approach to reducing their developers, and development time and resources. This isn't very evident, except that the Apollo source went this way for the same reason, in my eyes anyway to give the teams developing the browsers the opportunity to incorporate Apollo support, I see no difference with this approach and Flex support in browsers. And the stupid thing we have a M$ evangelist sitting here, and making a comment about this and a comment about that. But have you once put the respective back on your own Employer at all? Microsoft when they announced WP/F already stated that they would not develop, past their own OS. Now this may have changed in time, but what M$ was actually saying is that although we will not support unix, mac or whatever here is the source code and if anyone wants to develop for those platforms then that would be good. This is no different to Adobe, except they already have that platform independence where M$ do not. And the added bonus, of opening the source up is allowing for more product integration than ever before. There is nothing stopping people from integrating a better support of flex into CF than ever before now, and the beauty is that it will not be Adobe investing in that. It becomes open to others to look at this option, taking the pressure away from Adobe's developers who can go and work on other bigger and better things in the meantime. And of course I could be wrong too But Scott, you really need to look in your own backyard first Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au http://www.aegeon.com.au/ Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 Regards, Bjorn Schultheiss Senior Developer Error! Filename not specified. Personalised Communication Power Level 2, 31 Coventry St. South Melbourne 3205, VIC Australia T: +61 3 9674 7400 F: +61 3 9645 9160 W: http://www.qdc.net.au http://www.qdc.net.au/ ((This transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you believe you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender.---)) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
I could get into this with you Andrew, and spank you on how thinly you actually do your research around this but to be honest, you hate Microsoft for all the wrong reasons and just like the Vista pricing battle of 2007, you keep shifting the agenda/topic once a point gets made and debunked. Then you re-do the same topic, slightly worded different and we end up going full circle. So.. with that in mind, You win dude, I concede defeat ;) You got me, just to damn smart for me.. :) On 4/27/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually that's not true, WP/F was announced to chase headlines as you put it at the beginning of last year. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 3:06 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd] http://www.codeplex.com/Project/ProjectDirectory.aspx?TagName=WPF We do enough in the OS space we don't always chase headlines for it ;) On 4/27/07, Bjorn Schultheiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Scotty, When will microsoft be open sourcing wpf :) On 27/04/2007, at 2:32 PM, Andrew Scott wrote: Scott, I knew it would not be long for you to voice your opinion on your blog. But let's take a step back for a minute, Adobe have done a great job with Flex as Macromedia before them. But one thing that seems to be missing and Scott you touched on it, but I do not think that you fully looked into it. I see the Open Source a great positive approach to reducing their developers, and development time and resources. This isn't very evident, except that the Apollo source went this way for the same reason, in my eyes anyway to give the teams developing the browsers the opportunity to incorporate Apollo support, I see no difference with this approach and Flex support in browsers. And the stupid thing we have a M$ evangelist sitting here, and making a comment about this and a comment about that. But have you once put the respective back on your own Employer at all? Microsoft when they announced WP/F already stated that they would not develop, past their own OS. Now this may have changed in time, but what M$ was actually saying is that although we will not support unix, mac or whatever here is the source code and if anyone wants to develop for those platforms then that would be good. This is no different to Adobe, except they already have that platform independence where M$ do not. And the added bonus, of opening the source up is allowing for more product integration than ever before. There is nothing stopping people from integrating a better support of flex into CF than ever before now, and the beauty is that it will not be Adobe investing in that. It becomes open to others to look at this option, taking the pressure away from Adobe's developers who can go and work on other bigger and better things in the meantime. And of course I could be wrong too But Scott, you really need to look in your own backyard first Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 Regards, Bjorn Schultheiss Senior Developer Regards, Bjorn Schultheiss Senior Developer Error! Filename not specified. Personalised Communication Power Level 2, 31 Coventry St. South Melbourne 3205, VIC Australia T: +61 3 9674 7400 F: +61 3 9645 9160 W: http://www.qdc.net.au ((This transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you believe you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender.---)) -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
ps http://www.sauria.com/blog/2007/04/25/adobe-open-sources-flex/ Adobe is moving pretty quickly. When I met with David a week and a half ago, I got the impression that he and Ely had decided that they wanted to open source Flex, but hadn't cleared it with his management chain. A week and a half later, they are making an announcement. Don't shoot the messenger :) On 4/27/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I could get into this with you Andrew, and spank you on how thinly you actually do your research around this but to be honest, you hate Microsoft for all the wrong reasons and just like the Vista pricing battle of 2007, you keep shifting the agenda/topic once a point gets made and debunked. Then you re-do the same topic, slightly worded different and we end up going full circle. So.. with that in mind, You win dude, I concede defeat ;) You got me, just to damn smart for me.. :) On 4/27/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually that's not true, WP/F was announced to chase headlines as you put it at the beginning of last year. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 3:06 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd] http://www.codeplex.com/Project/ProjectDirectory.aspx?TagName=WPF We do enough in the OS space we don't always chase headlines for it ;) On 4/27/07, Bjorn Schultheiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Scotty, When will microsoft be open sourcing wpf :) On 27/04/2007, at 2:32 PM, Andrew Scott wrote: Scott, I knew it would not be long for you to voice your opinion on your blog. But let's take a step back for a minute, Adobe have done a great job with Flex as Macromedia before them. But one thing that seems to be missing and Scott you touched on it, but I do not think that you fully looked into it. I see the Open Source a great positive approach to reducing their developers, and development time and resources. This isn't very evident, except that the Apollo source went this way for the same reason, in my eyes anyway to give the teams developing the browsers the opportunity to incorporate Apollo support, I see no difference with this approach and Flex support in browsers. And the stupid thing we have a M$ evangelist sitting here, and making a comment about this and a comment about that. But have you once put the respective back on your own Employer at all? Microsoft when they announced WP/F already stated that they would not develop, past their own OS. Now this may have changed in time, but what M$ was actually saying is that although we will not support unix, mac or whatever here is the source code and if anyone wants to develop for those platforms then that would be good. This is no different to Adobe, except they already have that platform independence where M$ do not. And the added bonus, of opening the source up is allowing for more product integration than ever before. There is nothing stopping people from integrating a better support of flex into CF than ever before now, and the beauty is that it will not be Adobe investing in that. It becomes open to others to look at this option, taking the pressure away from Adobe's developers who can go and work on other bigger and better things in the meantime. And of course I could be wrong too But Scott, you really need to look in your own backyard first Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 Regards, Bjorn Schultheiss Senior Developer Regards, Bjorn Schultheiss Senior Developer Error! Filename not specified. Personalised Communication Power Level 2, 31 Coventry St. South Melbourne 3205, VIC Australia T: +61 3 9674 7400 F: +61 3 9645 9160 W: http://www.qdc.net.au ((This transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you believe you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender.---)) -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
Scott, Who cares, really... Of course they are going to be coy about such things, I mean what is the point of announcing something that might be slammed on the head by the company. That would be like m$ saying we are planning to Open Source windows, and then Bill Gates says No Way. Who is going to have egg on their face then. NDA's and corporate IP is kept very close to ones chest for a reason. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 3:18 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd] ps http://www.sauria.com/blog/2007/04/25/adobe-open-sources-flex/ Adobe is moving pretty quickly. When I met with David a week and a half ago, I got the impression that he and Ely had decided that they wanted to open source Flex, but hadn't cleared it with his management chain. A week and a half later, they are making an announcement. Don't shoot the messenger :) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: What's it all mean for CF developers? [Flex now Open Source'd]
What ever tickles your fancy Scott, but at the end of the day who cares. I don't hate M$, I hate any business/company that think they can exploit a consumer. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Western Sydney User Group - anyone interested?
Yup we are interested. Count us in (x3 developers), that makes 4. I was interested last time this was raised about 3 years ago and can provide the venue if required. The conference room can hold about 20 ppl comfortably, wireless internet available. If enough interest is around we might spring for drinks and nibbles. Cheers Rod -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Kear Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 3:45 PM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Western Sydney User Group - anyone interested? Some time ago, I raised the thought of setting up a Western Sydney CF User Group, because i felt sure there were quite a few coldfusion developers west of Auburn who felt travelling in to what they mistakently call the Central Business District was a real hassle. There were several people at the time who indicated they would be interested in being involved in such a group. Well it's suddenly taken on a life of its own and I think I can be assured of a regular venue in Penrith, a hop and a skip from the railway station in the main High Street. If there's anyone who would like to be involved in a UserGroup can you please let me know by posting to this list or sending me a private email.It looks like it just might happen now. -- Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away
Well technically then Barry should have posted that thread in the watercooler then.. Don't pin Scott and I for something that is technically off topic, and has no relevance to solving CF related stuff Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. http://www.aegeon.com.au www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom MacKean Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 3:46 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Scott and Andrew have driven me away OK. Had enough. I'm unsubscribing from cfaussie as of now. Let me make this perfectly clear. I am dropping off this list for one reason only, and that is that every time someone comes up with a sensible post about something Scott and Andrew turn it into a flame war. Scott - this is a list for people who have problems or questions about all things COLDFUSION - it is not a forum for Well you could do it with CF but look at this alternative from MS. Andrew - To quote from Bambi If ya can't say nuffin' nice, don't say nuffin' at all. Have a look through your posts and see how many have ADDED to people's knowledge of a subject and how many have just been having a dig at something someone (usually Scott) has said. They went and set up a whole new watercooler newsgroup for you guys so you could take your crap off cfaussie but your egos keep you posting in other people's topics. What a couple of pricks. Don't bother replying, I'm gone. Tom MacKean -- IMPORTANT: This email is intended for the use of the individual addressee(s) named above and may contain information that is confidential privileged or unsuitable for overly sensitive persons with low self-esteem, no sense of humor or irrational religious beliefs. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is not authorized (either explicitly or implicitly) and constitutes an irritating social fauxpas. No animals were harmed in the transmission of this email, although the mutt next door is living on borrowed time, let me tell you. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away
The man quotes Bambi, Let him cry... On 27/04/2007, at 3:46 PM, Tom MacKean wrote: OK. Had enough. I'm unsubscribing from cfaussie as of now. Let me make this perfectly clear. I am dropping off this list for one reason only, and that is that every time someone comes up with a sensible post about something Scott and Andrew turn it into a flame war. Scott - this is a list for people who have problems or questions about all things COLDFUSION - it is not a forum for Well you could do it with CF but look at this alternative from MS. Andrew - To quote from Bambi If ya can't say nuffin' nice, don't say nuffin' at all. Have a look through your posts and see how many have ADDED to people's knowledge of a subject and how many have just been having a dig at something someone (usually Scott) has said. They went and set up a whole new watercooler newsgroup for you guys so you could take your crap off cfaussie but your egos keep you posting in other people's topics. What a couple of pricks. Don't bother replying, I'm gone. Tom MacKean --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
