Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
Good idea... I'll work on one also but I won't be able to get to it till early next year. I'll let you know... The k1d ""Jason"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Well to start of this exchange of labs maybe we should set some basic > foundations: > 1. All labs should not exceed more than 6 routers. > I think we all know why this should be the case. > 2. The frame cloud in every lab should not exceed four connections. > > I have spoken to several people who complain about the > current competition use 5 connections in the frame cloud. Most of us > only have the four port >2500 at home that acts as a frame switch. > 3. Keep it up to date. > How difficult is it to do a practice lab while trying not to > be distracted by some technology that is not on the test any more. > 5. Keep it original. > Create your own work, don't take a lab out of Halabi's book, > add an extra router, then slap a 650 dollar price tag on it. > 4. Keep it FREE. > I don't know about the rest if you, but after dropping > 13,000 dollars in a lab at home, and 4,000 dollars in training, spending > an extra 650 just hurts. > > I think my game plan is, at least for the first few labs, to create a > map in visio with some core requirements. Then the group can suggest > such things as Local Area > Mobility, NAT, etc that can be incorporated in to the lab. > > Where can we post the labs? Can every one read visio? Do we have to > send it out in a different format? > > And yes Marc, the email is bogus. I did not want to be spammed by you > or your affiliates. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29710&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
The problem with limiting the labs to six routers is that in the "true" lab, you have six routers you configure plus 2-3 backbone routers that are sending routes to you. Therefore to simulate the lab experience it would take more than 6 routers. Louie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of c1sc0k1d Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 5:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] Good idea... I'll work on one also but I won't be able to get to it till early next year. I'll let you know... The k1d ""Jason"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Well to start of this exchange of labs maybe we should set some basic > foundations: > 1. All labs should not exceed more than 6 routers. > I think we all know why this should be the case. > 2. The frame cloud in every lab should not exceed four connections. > > I have spoken to several people who complain about the > current competition use 5 connections in the frame cloud. Most of us > only have the four port >2500 at home that acts as a frame switch. > 3. Keep it up to date. > How difficult is it to do a practice lab while trying not to > be distracted by some technology that is not on the test any more. > 5. Keep it original. > Create your own work, don't take a lab out of Halabi's book, > add an extra router, then slap a 650 dollar price tag on it. > 4. Keep it FREE. > I don't know about the rest if you, but after dropping > 13,000 dollars in a lab at home, and 4,000 dollars in training, spending > an extra 650 just hurts. > > I think my game plan is, at least for the first few labs, to create a > map in visio with some core requirements. Then the group can suggest > such things as Local Area > Mobility, NAT, etc that can be incorporated in to the lab. > > Where can we post the labs? Can every one read visio? Do we have to > send it out in a different format? > > And yes Marc, the email is bogus. I did not want to be spammed by you > or your affiliates. _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29716&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
Jason (if that is your name), if you're dropping $17,000 already on your CCIE preparation, then what's another 4% for the best labs out there that have helped over a couple hundred CCIEs (very conservative estimate) get their four digits? All of our labs are original, we don't violate NDA, and we provide challenging scenarios. If you'd like advice on preparing for your CCIE, feel free to give me a call to discuss (248) 299-7789. I'm not sure how you can insinuate that we copied labs from Halabi, or for that matter, you can even comment on our labs since you are not a customer and dont have our labs! Iin our new labs that our coming out over the next month or so, we do write scenarios around a 4 port frame-switch. These new labs will have some great new tricks and other challenges that will also incorporate the 1-day lab structure (time requirements, pre-configs for IP addresses, etc). These new labs will be available for free to our current customers. thanks, -Brad Ellis CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security) Network Learning Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] used Cisco gear: www.optsys.net CCIE Labs, racks, and classes: http://www.ccbootcamp.com/quicklinks.html ""Jason"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Well to start of this exchange of labs maybe we should set some basic > foundations: > 1. All labs should not exceed more than 6 routers. > I think we all know why this should be the case. > 2. The frame cloud in every lab should not exceed four connections. > > I have spoken to several people who complain about the > current competition use 5 connections in the frame cloud. Most of us > only have the four port >2500 at home that acts as a frame switch. > 3. Keep it up to date. > How difficult is it to do a practice lab while trying not to > be distracted by some technology that is not on the test any more. > 5. Keep it original. > Create your own work, don't take a lab out of Halabi's book, > add an extra router, then slap a 650 dollar price tag on it. > 4. Keep it FREE. > I don't know about the rest if you, but after dropping > 13,000 dollars in a lab at home, and 4,000 dollars in training, spending > an extra 650 just hurts. > > I think my game plan is, at least for the first few labs, to create a > map in visio with some core requirements. Then the group can suggest > such things as Local Area > Mobility, NAT, etc that can be incorporated in to the lab. > > Where can we post the labs? Can every one read visio? Do we have to > send it out in a different format? > > And yes Marc, the email is bogus. I did not want to be spammed by you > or your affiliates. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29721&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
!Hola! I'm very new to the Cisco Certs game, but I'd like this project. > Well to start of this exchange of labs maybe we should set some basic > foundations: > 1. All labs should not exceed more than 6 routers. > I think we all know why this should be the case. Somebody has said that in the real lab there are 6+3 routers. These 3 core routers are configured by the wannabe ccie or by the Cisco people? If they are configured by the cisco people and they are supposed to use only bgp we could set up several zebra/mrtd in internet with a system to automatically get bgp sessions configured... > I think my game plan is, at least for the first few labs, to create a > map in visio with some core requirements. Then the group can suggest > such things as Local Area > Mobility, NAT, etc that can be incorporated in to the lab. > Where can we post the labs? I can setup a web server (not very good connectivity by US standards, 512kbps in Argentina...) to post them. > Can every one read visio? No. I don't think there is a visio reader for unix. > Do we have to send it out in a different format? PDF? Saludos, HoraPe --- Horacio J. Peqa [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29722&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
as an FYI, the fatkid labs are FREE www.fatkid.com many require just three or four routers plus frame switch. you can always use a hub or a mau instead of a switch. the Parkhurst BGP book has a LOT of GOOD practice using just three routers. Much of Doyle can be accomplished with just a few routers. Imagination and resourcefulness are also free. Chuck -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of c1sc0k1d Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] Good idea... I'll work on one also but I won't be able to get to it till early next year. I'll let you know... The k1d ""Jason"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Well to start of this exchange of labs maybe we should set some basic > foundations: > 1. All labs should not exceed more than 6 routers. > I think we all know why this should be the case. > 2. The frame cloud in every lab should not exceed four connections. > > I have spoken to several people who complain about the > current competition use 5 connections in the frame cloud. Most of us > only have the four port >2500 at home that acts as a frame switch. > 3. Keep it up to date. > How difficult is it to do a practice lab while trying not to > be distracted by some technology that is not on the test any more. > 5. Keep it original. > Create your own work, don't take a lab out of Halabi's book, > add an extra router, then slap a 650 dollar price tag on it. > 4. Keep it FREE. > I don't know about the rest if you, but after dropping > 13,000 dollars in a lab at home, and 4,000 dollars in training, spending > an extra 650 just hurts. > > I think my game plan is, at least for the first few labs, to create a > map in visio with some core requirements. Then the group can suggest > such things as Local Area > Mobility, NAT, etc that can be incorporated in to the lab. > > Where can we post the labs? Can every one read visio? Do we have to > send it out in a different format? > > And yes Marc, the email is bogus. I did not want to be spammed by you > or your affiliates. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29723&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
Seems like this list will always have someone, like this - Jason, where every six months or so they will come along and downplay the CCIE cert. or those that make $$$ from the CCIE cert. process. Whatever happened to that biggest of ranter's - Mr. PKM??? I never heard Derek Small of fatkid.com whine or complain about anything or anyone - HE JUST DID IT! Jason, is it, remember talking s*** and doing it are two different things! JUST DO IT!!! - quietly please : ) Just the other day I sold a PIX to a guy that told me he was going to build a CCIE Security lab and put it online for everyone to use for FREE. His eye's kind of glazed over when I pointed out the cost of building a full lab, supplying a circuit and the monthly electrical bill for 24x7x365. That was probably the least of his concerns since he claimed to be able to write a 40 page lab in a single weekend and then sell it for a $1000. Although, I thought he was going to cry because I wouldn't take a lousy $100 off the price of the PIX!!! With these type on individuals on the loose I have no worry about an endless supply of work for meI believe manager's call it - "Cleaning up the corporate network." : ) Eric PS - How many CCIE's on this list got there cert for little or no cost$$$ - Original Message - From: "Chuck Larrieu" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 6:30 PM Subject: RE: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] > as an FYI, the fatkid labs are FREE > > www.fatkid.com > > many require just three or four routers plus frame switch. you can always > use a hub or a mau instead of a switch. > > the Parkhurst BGP book has a LOT of GOOD practice using just three routers. > > Much of Doyle can be accomplished with just a few routers. > > Imagination and resourcefulness are also free. > > Chuck > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > c1sc0k1d > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:49 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] > > > Good idea... I'll work on one also but I won't be able to get to it till > early next year. I'll let you know... > > The k1d > > > > ""Jason"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > Well to start of this exchange of labs maybe we should set some basic > > foundations: > > 1. All labs should not exceed more than 6 routers. > > I think we all know why this should be the case. > > 2. The frame cloud in every lab should not exceed four connections. > > > > I have spoken to several people who complain about the > > current competition use 5 connections in the frame cloud. Most of us > > only have the four port > >2500 at home that acts as a frame switch. > > 3. Keep it up to date. > > How difficult is it to do a practice lab while trying not to > > be distracted by some technology that is not on the test any more. > > 5. Keep it original. > > Create your own work, don't take a lab out of Halabi's book, > > add an extra router, then slap a 650 dollar price tag on it. > > 4. Keep it FREE. > > I don't know about the rest if you, but after dropping > > 13,000 dollars in a lab at home, and 4,000 dollars in training, spending > > an extra 650 just hurts. > > > > I think my game plan is, at least for the first few labs, to create a > > map in visio with some core requirements. Then the group can suggest > > such things as Local Area > > Mobility, NAT, etc that can be incorporated in to the lab. > > > > Where can we post the labs? Can every one read visio? Do we have to > > send it out in a different format? > > > > And yes Marc, the email is bogus. I did not want to be spammed by you > > or your affiliates. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29731&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
Good links, thanks you. On Wed, Dec 19, 2001 at 09:30:47PM -0500, Chuck Larrieu wrote: > as an FYI, the fatkid labs are FREE > > www.fatkid.com > > many require just three or four routers plus frame switch. you can always > use a hub or a mau instead of a switch. > > the Parkhurst BGP book has a LOT of GOOD practice using just three routers. > > Much of Doyle can be accomplished with just a few routers. > > Imagination and resourcefulness are also free. > > Chuck > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > c1sc0k1d > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:49 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] > > > Good idea... I'll work on one also but I won't be able to get to it till > early next year. I'll let you know... > > The k1d > > > > ""Jason"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > Well to start of this exchange of labs maybe we should set some basic > > foundations: > > 1. All labs should not exceed more than 6 routers. > > I think we all know why this should be the case. > > 2. The frame cloud in every lab should not exceed four connections. > > > > I have spoken to several people who complain about the > > current competition use 5 connections in the frame cloud. Most of us > > only have the four port > >2500 at home that acts as a frame switch. > > 3. Keep it up to date. > > How difficult is it to do a practice lab while trying not to > > be distracted by some technology that is not on the test any more. > > 5. Keep it original. > > Create your own work, don't take a lab out of Halabi's book, > > add an extra router, then slap a 650 dollar price tag on it. > > 4. Keep it FREE. > > I don't know about the rest if you, but after dropping > > 13,000 dollars in a lab at home, and 4,000 dollars in training, spending > > an extra 650 just hurts. > > > > I think my game plan is, at least for the first few labs, to create a > > map in visio with some core requirements. Then the group can suggest > > such things as Local Area > > Mobility, NAT, etc that can be incorporated in to the lab. > > > > Where can we post the labs? Can every one read visio? Do we have to > > send it out in a different format? > > > > And yes Marc, the email is bogus. I did not want to be spammed by you > > or your affiliates. -- HoraPe --- Horacio J. Peqa [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29734&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
I couldn't subscribe to this project because to me the attitude of my study partners is important. The slamming of other people's work, obvious unapologetic mis-understanding and misrepresentation of the issues and situation without first hand knowledge doesn't bode well for a good learning environment. I wish you well in your studies. Kevin Wigle CCDP CCNP and other stuff - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Wednesday, 19 December, 2001 21:11 Subject: Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] > !Hola! > > I'm very new to the Cisco Certs game, but I'd like this project. > > > Well to start of this exchange of labs maybe we should set some basic > > foundations: > > > 1. All labs should not exceed more than 6 routers. > > I think we all know why this should be the case. > > Somebody has said that in the real lab there are 6+3 routers. > > These 3 core routers are configured by the wannabe ccie or by the Cisco > people? > > If they are configured by the cisco people and they are supposed to use > only bgp we could set up several zebra/mrtd in internet with a system to > automatically get bgp sessions configured... > > > I think my game plan is, at least for the first few labs, to create a > > map in visio with some core requirements. Then the group can suggest > > such things as Local Area > > Mobility, NAT, etc that can be incorporated in to the lab. > > > Where can we post the labs? > > I can setup a web server (not very good connectivity by US standards, 512kbps > in Argentina...) to post them. > > > Can every one read visio? > > No. I don't think there is a visio reader for unix. > > > Do we have to send it out in a different format? > > PDF? > > Saludos, > HoraPe > --- > Horacio J. Peqa > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29727&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
!Hola! Ok, i won't like to be misunderstood. I believe that Jason's ccbootcamp trolling is very bad (and i hadn't read it before answering) But, I want to have some free labs to work on, and i want to help any project with that objective. I'd said that I liked the idea of having the free labs and that I've some resources I could donate to it. If the project tends to be a ccbootcamp (or anyone) trolling camp, I'm out of it. BTW, for me $650 is very big money. It's more than what i've earned monthly this year. And my lab is made from inherited boxes (i've been given several routers in exchange for very months of unpaid salary) I know i'm not the only one in that situation (i know of several friends and i believe most people living in countries with not so good economies as US and Europe are more or less like that -yes, your falling economy is very good comparing to our, we're having riots right now because of that) I'd like to be in an open project for sharing labs, the same way groupstudy is for sharing ideas. I want not to be in a project made to be based in trolling other people. Again, if there is people interested in sharing labs, i'm interested in that too, and i offer the help i can give. If you want to troll people, i won't help on it. Saludos, HoraPe On Wed, Dec 19, 2001 at 08:19:11PM -0500, Kevin Wigle wrote: > I couldn't subscribe to this project because to me the attitude of my study > partners is important. > > The slamming of other people's work, obvious unapologetic mis-understanding > and misrepresentation of the issues and situation without first hand > knowledge doesn't bode well for a good learning environment. > > I wish you well in your studies. > > Kevin Wigle > CCDP CCNP and other stuff > > - Original Message - > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, 19 December, 2001 21:11 > Subject: Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] > > > > !Hola! > > > > I'm very new to the Cisco Certs game, but I'd like this project. > > > > > Well to start of this exchange of labs maybe we should set some basic > > > foundations: > > > > > 1. All labs should not exceed more than 6 routers. > > > I think we all know why this should be the case. > > > > Somebody has said that in the real lab there are 6+3 routers. > > > > These 3 core routers are configured by the wannabe ccie or by the Cisco > > people? > > > > If they are configured by the cisco people and they are supposed to use > > only bgp we could set up several zebra/mrtd in internet with a system to > > automatically get bgp sessions configured... > > > > > I think my game plan is, at least for the first few labs, to create a > > > map in visio with some core requirements. Then the group can suggest > > > such things as Local Area > > > Mobility, NAT, etc that can be incorporated in to the lab. > > > > > Where can we post the labs? > > > > I can setup a web server (not very good connectivity by US standards, > 512kbps > > in Argentina...) to post them. > > > > > Can every one read visio? > > > > No. I don't think there is a visio reader for unix. > > > > > Do we have to send it out in a different format? > > > > PDF? > > > > Saludos, > > HoraPe > > --- > > Horacio J. Peqa > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- HoraPe --- Horacio J. Peqa [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29730&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
necessity is the mother of invention, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Good for you - I wish you much success in your endeavor. I won't be participating in your 'charity organization' unless I can get a tax write-off for the time I'd put into it. Too busy with the finishing touches of study before my lab attempt. :-) - Original Message - From: "Jason" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 12:03 PM Subject: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] > Well to start of this exchange of labs maybe we should set some basic > foundations: > 1. All labs should not exceed more than 6 routers. > I think we all know why this should be the case. > 2. The frame cloud in every lab should not exceed four connections. > > I have spoken to several people who complain about the > current competition use 5 connections in the frame cloud. Most of us > only have the four port >2500 at home that acts as a frame switch. > 3. Keep it up to date. > How difficult is it to do a practice lab while trying not to > be distracted by some technology that is not on the test any more. > 5. Keep it original. > Create your own work, don't take a lab out of Halabi's book, > add an extra router, then slap a 650 dollar price tag on it. > 4. Keep it FREE. > I don't know about the rest if you, but after dropping > 13,000 dollars in a lab at home, and 4,000 dollars in training, spending > an extra 650 just hurts. > > I think my game plan is, at least for the first few labs, to create a > map in visio with some core requirements. Then the group can suggest > such things as Local Area > Mobility, NAT, etc that can be incorporated in to the lab. > > Where can we post the labs? Can every one read visio? Do we have to > send it out in a different format? > > And yes Marc, the email is bogus. I did not want to be spammed by you > or your affiliates. _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29742&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
Not me, I paid alot of $ And I paid for Marc's labs too, I thought they were great. It ain't cheap, but what in life that's worth anything is? Mitch CCIE #6011 -Original Message- From: Eric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 8:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] Seems like this list will always have someone, like this - Jason, where every six months or so they will come along and downplay the CCIE cert. or those that make $$$ from the CCIE cert. process. Whatever happened to that biggest of ranter's - Mr. PKM??? I never heard Derek Small of fatkid.com whine or complain about anything or anyone - HE JUST DID IT! Jason, is it, remember talking s*** and doing it are two different things! JUST DO IT!!! - quietly please : ) Just the other day I sold a PIX to a guy that told me he was going to build a CCIE Security lab and put it online for everyone to use for FREE. His eye's kind of glazed over when I pointed out the cost of building a full lab, supplying a circuit and the monthly electrical bill for 24x7x365. That was probably the least of his concerns since he claimed to be able to write a 40 page lab in a single weekend and then sell it for a $1000. Although, I thought he was going to cry because I wouldn't take a lousy $100 off the price of the PIX!!! With these type on individuals on the loose I have no worry about an endless supply of work for meI believe manager's call it - "Cleaning up the corporate network." : ) Eric PS - How many CCIE's on this list got there cert for little or no cost$$$ - Original Message - From: "Chuck Larrieu" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 6:30 PM Subject: RE: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] > as an FYI, the fatkid labs are FREE > > www.fatkid.com > > many require just three or four routers plus frame switch. you can always > use a hub or a mau instead of a switch. > > the Parkhurst BGP book has a LOT of GOOD practice using just three routers. > > Much of Doyle can be accomplished with just a few routers. > > Imagination and resourcefulness are also free. > > Chuck > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > c1sc0k1d > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:49 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] > > > Good idea... I'll work on one also but I won't be able to get to it till > early next year. I'll let you know... > > The k1d > > > > ""Jason"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > Well to start of this exchange of labs maybe we should set some basic > > foundations: > > 1. All labs should not exceed more than 6 routers. > > I think we all know why this should be the case. > > 2. The frame cloud in every lab should not exceed four connections. > > > > I have spoken to several people who complain about the > > current competition use 5 connections in the frame cloud. Most of us > > only have the four port > >2500 at home that acts as a frame switch. > > 3. Keep it up to date. > > How difficult is it to do a practice lab while trying not to > > be distracted by some technology that is not on the test any more. > > 5. Keep it original. > > Create your own work, don't take a lab out of Halabi's book, > > add an extra router, then slap a 650 dollar price tag on it. > > 4. Keep it FREE. > > I don't know about the rest if you, but after dropping > > 13,000 dollars in a lab at home, and 4,000 dollars in training, spending > > an extra 650 just hurts. > > > > I think my game plan is, at least for the first few labs, to create a > > map in visio with some core requirements. Then the group can suggest > > such things as Local Area > > Mobility, NAT, etc that can be incorporated in to the lab. > > > > Where can we post the labs? Can every one read visio? Do we have to > > send it out in a different format? > > > > And yes Marc, the email is bogus. I did not want to be spammed by you > > or your affiliates. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29767&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
Would you mind sharing your opinion as to which labs were better... and why? The k1d wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Not me, I paid alot of $ And I paid for Marc's labs too, I thought they > were great. > > It ain't cheap, but what in life that's worth anything is? > > Mitch > CCIE #6011 > > -Original Message- > From: Eric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 8:39 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] > > > Seems like this list will always have someone, like this - Jason, where > every six months or so they will come along and downplay the CCIE cert. or > those that make $$$ from the CCIE cert. process. Whatever happened to that > biggest of ranter's - Mr. PKM??? I never heard Derek Small of fatkid.com > whine or complain about anything or anyone - HE JUST DID IT! > > Jason, is it, remember talking s*** and doing it are two different > things! JUST DO IT!!! - quietly please : ) > > Just the other day I sold a PIX to a guy that told me he was going to > build a CCIE Security lab and put it online for everyone to use for FREE. > His eye's kind of glazed over when I pointed out the cost of building a full > lab, supplying a circuit and the monthly electrical bill for 24x7x365. That > was probably the least of his concerns since he claimed to be able to write > a 40 page lab in a single weekend and then sell it for a $1000. Although, I > thought he was going to cry because I wouldn't take a lousy $100 off the > price of the PIX!!! > > With these type on individuals on the loose I have no worry about an > endless supply of work for meI believe manager's call it - "Cleaning up > the corporate network." : ) > > Eric > > PS - How many CCIE's on this list got there cert for little or no > cost$$$ > > - Original Message - > From: "Chuck Larrieu" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 6:30 PM > Subject: RE: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] > > > > as an FYI, the fatkid labs are FREE > > > > www.fatkid.com > > > > many require just three or four routers plus frame switch. you can always > > use a hub or a mau instead of a switch. > > > > the Parkhurst BGP book has a LOT of GOOD practice using just three > routers. > > > > Much of Doyle can be accomplished with just a few routers. > > > > Imagination and resourcefulness are also free. > > > > Chuck > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > > c1sc0k1d > > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:49 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] > > > > > > Good idea... I'll work on one also but I won't be able to get to it till > > early next year. I'll let you know... > > > > The k1d > > > > > > > > ""Jason"" wrote in message > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > Well to start of this exchange of labs maybe we should set some basic > > > foundations: > > > 1. All labs should not exceed more than 6 routers. > > > I think we all know why this should be the case. > > > 2. The frame cloud in every lab should not exceed four connections. > > > > > > I have spoken to several people who complain about the > > > current competition use 5 connections in the frame cloud. Most of us > > > only have the four port > > >2500 at home that acts as a frame switch. > > > 3. Keep it up to date. > > > How difficult is it to do a practice lab while trying not to > > > be distracted by some technology that is not on the test any more. > > > 5. Keep it original. > > > Create your own work, don't take a lab out of Halabi's book, > > > add an extra router, then slap a 650 dollar price tag on it. > > > 4. Keep it FREE. > > > I don't know about the rest if you, but after dropping > > > 13,000 dollars in a lab at home, and 4,000 dollars in training, spending > > > an extra 650 just hurts. > > > > > > I think my game plan is, at least for the first few labs, to create a > > > map in visio with some core requirements. Then the group can suggest > > > such things as Local Area > > > Mobility, NAT, etc that can be incorporated in to the lab. > > > > > > Where can we post the labs? Can every one read visio? Do we have to > > > send it out in a different format? > > > > > > And yes Marc, the email is bogus. I did not want to be spammed by you > > > or your affiliates. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29772&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
Let me comment on several aspects of this thread, with the disclaimer I am involved with a virtual rack business that will be announced Real Soon Now, and involves the cooperative efforts of several recognized groups. First, let's talk about scenarios. Not long ago, I posted my taxonomy of lab scenarios, which range from "mini classes" to let the user get deeper understanding of a particular technology, to multistage scenarios more like the test but with mentoring features, to pressure-cooker lab practice. It's not super-hard to create a scenario that gives some practice. Speaking from experience, it's much harder to create scenarios that have specific instructional objectives. When I'm writing a scenario for gaining specific protocol knowledge, I will usually explore several ways to do it. When I'm writing one to be more like my understanding of the actual test, I will put in artificial constraints so there is basically only one solution. Should a practice scenario have supporting references, at least links? I think so. Second, the lab or virtual rack itself. There is a wide difference in features, stability, and operational support among commercial labs. While it may be practical and appropriate to have cheaper written products for countries where S prices are simply out of the question (incidentally, rather to my surprise, I just received Chinese translations of my Routing & Switching Architecture book), that isn't necessarily practical for labs. There are fixed capital costs for equipment, plus operational costs to support the lab. Let's put it this way...for this upcoming project in which I'm involved, we are now pouring the concrete for the backup diesel and UPS, but are still working on having redundant local loops. Not everyone has that kind of availability as a goal. It may be practical to clone shared labs into countries where operational cost is lower, and save on the transoceanic bandwidth costs. The equipment cost, however, is what it is. Incidentally, I am a strong believer in virtual racks rather than personal labs, because you certainly will have to deal with remote routers in real jobs, and it's my understanding that the 1-day CCIE lab also is hands-off the physical equipment. Even if you build a personal lab, rely on a terminal server and reverse telnet -- it will be better practice. I wish people well in rolling their own scenarios, and we will also have some scenarios for free download, as well as others that are associated with rack rental. But it's harder than it looks to write GOOD scenarios. Indeed, I treat them like any other formal software engineering project, with code version control, formal acceptance testing, etc. >Well to start of this exchange of labs maybe we should set some basic >foundations: > 1. All labs should not exceed more than 6 routers. > I think we all know why this should be the case. > 2. The frame cloud in every lab should not exceed four connections. > > I have spoken to several people who complain about the >current competition use 5 connections in the frame cloud. Most of us >only have the four port >2500 at home that acts as a frame switch. > 3. Keep it up to date. > How difficult is it to do a practice lab while trying not to >be distracted by some technology that is not on the test any more. > 5. Keep it original. > Create your own work, don't take a lab out of Halabi's book, >add an extra router, then slap a 650 dollar price tag on it. > 4. Keep it FREE. > I don't know about the rest if you, but after dropping >13,000 dollars in a lab at home, and 4,000 dollars in training, spending >an extra 650 just hurts. > >I think my game plan is, at least for the first few labs, to create a >map in visio with some core requirements. Then the group can suggest >such things as Local Area >Mobility, NAT, etc that can be incorporated in to the lab. > >Where can we post the labs? Can every one read visio? Do we have to >send it out in a different format? > >And yes Marc, the email is bogus. I did not want to be spammed by you >or your affiliates. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29788&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
Well put, Kevin. I have dealt with both Brad and Marc at Network Learning, Inc. and Optsys, Inc. and have been to their place of business to check out their equipment. They are both really nice guys and you wouldn't believe the racks they have set up! They both know their sh*t and I've seen their labs, which are very good. They have created a service which would take the normal CCIE candidate a long time to do themselves. I believe that $650 is a reasonable price for the work that they put into these labs. As Chuck mentioned, there are also free labs that you can use and your own imagination to create your own labs. What a great way to learn! Shawn -Original Message- From: Kevin Wigle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] I couldn't subscribe to this project because to me the attitude of my study partners is important. The slamming of other people's work, obvious unapologetic mis-understanding and misrepresentation of the issues and situation without first hand knowledge doesn't bode well for a good learning environment. I wish you well in your studies. Kevin Wigle CCDP CCNP and other stuff - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Wednesday, 19 December, 2001 21:11 Subject: Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] > !Hola! > > I'm very new to the Cisco Certs game, but I'd like this project. > > > Well to start of this exchange of labs maybe we should set some > > basic > > foundations: > > > 1. All labs should not exceed more than 6 routers. > > I think we all know why this should be the case. > > Somebody has said that in the real lab there are 6+3 routers. > > These 3 core routers are configured by the wannabe ccie or by the > Cisco people? > > If they are configured by the cisco people and they are supposed to > use only bgp we could set up several zebra/mrtd in internet with a > system to automatically get bgp sessions configured... > > > I think my game plan is, at least for the first few labs, to create > > a map in visio with some core requirements. Then the group can > > suggest such things as Local Area Mobility, NAT, etc that can be > > incorporated in to the lab. > > > Where can we post the labs? > > I can setup a web server (not very good connectivity by US standards, 512kbps > in Argentina...) to post them. > > > Can every one read visio? > > No. I don't think there is a visio reader for unix. > > > Do we have to send it out in a different format? > > PDF? > > Saludos, > HoraPe > --- > Horacio J. Peqa > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29779&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
Good answer, Howard. I've been thinking about the statement that someone made that "the knowledge isn't proprietary," referring to the knowledge one needs to pass CCIE. The information isn't proprietary. The word "knowledge" implies something more, however. It implies that the recipient actually received and internalized the information and could retransmit it (like on a test) if necessary. The word knowledge has the same root as acknowledge! Developing effective methods for knowledge transfer requires creativity, skill, time, money, awareness of the audience and their learning styles, and other resources. The results may be proprietary and there's nothing wrong with charging for them. I can't comment on the pricing. (Setting a good price has always seemed like a black art to me, having only taken one business/marketing type class in my life.) It does seem like different prices for different countries makes sense, as others have said. I encourage the folks who want to develop labs for free. I remain a bit skeptical that the results will be as good as the results from the professionals, such as Howard and the folks at ccbootcamp. But I could be surprised! I have done some of my best work when people told me I couldn't do it. ;-) Cheers, Priscilla At 01:42 PM 12/20/01, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: >Let me comment on several aspects of this thread, with the disclaimer >I am involved with a virtual rack business that will be announced >Real Soon Now, and involves the cooperative efforts of several >recognized groups. > >First, let's talk about scenarios. Not long ago, I posted my >taxonomy of lab scenarios, which range from "mini classes" to let the >user get deeper understanding of a particular technology, to >multistage scenarios more like the test but with mentoring features, >to pressure-cooker lab practice. It's not super-hard to create a >scenario that gives some practice. Speaking from experience, it's >much harder to create scenarios that have specific instructional >objectives. When I'm writing a scenario for gaining specific protocol >knowledge, I will usually explore several ways to do it. When I'm >writing one to be more like my understanding of the actual test, I >will put in artificial constraints so there is basically only one >solution. Should a practice scenario have supporting references, at >least links? I think so. > >Second, the lab or virtual rack itself. There is a wide difference in >features, stability, and operational support among commercial labs. >While it may be practical and appropriate to have cheaper written >products for countries where S prices are simply out of the question >(incidentally, rather to my surprise, I just received Chinese >translations of my Routing & Switching Architecture book), that isn't >necessarily practical for labs. There are fixed capital costs for >equipment, plus operational costs to support the lab. Let's put it >this way...for this upcoming project in which I'm involved, we are >now pouring the concrete for the backup diesel and UPS, but are still >working on having redundant local loops. Not everyone has that kind >of availability as a goal. > >It may be practical to clone shared labs into countries where >operational cost is lower, and save on the transoceanic bandwidth >costs. The equipment cost, however, is what it is. > >Incidentally, I am a strong believer in virtual racks rather than >personal labs, because you certainly will have to deal with remote >routers in real jobs, and it's my understanding that the 1-day CCIE >lab also is hands-off the physical equipment. Even if you build a >personal lab, rely on a terminal server and reverse telnet -- it will >be better practice. > >I wish people well in rolling their own scenarios, and we will also >have some scenarios for free download, as well as others that are >associated with rack rental. But it's harder than it looks to write >GOOD scenarios. Indeed, I treat them like any other formal software >engineering project, with code version control, formal acceptance >testing, etc. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=29834&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
> Developing effective methods for knowledge transfer requires creativity, > skill, time, money, awareness of the audience and their learning styles, > and other resources. The results may be proprietary and there's nothing > wrong with charging for them. I can't comment on the pricing. (Setting a > good price has always seemed like a black art to me, having only taken one > business/marketing type class in my life.) It does seem like different > prices for different countries makes sense, as others have said. A copy of your book graces my bookshelf (I have to admit that I have not had a chance to read it yet). I do not mind paying for the book. There are a number of people here financing their own CCIE, it would be nice if the labs were available in parts (I would be interested in labs 1-10 for example). The labs are extensive (having seen Lab 1 as an example) but are they really worth $650. After having sold 100/1000/2000 lab sets, it becomes less and less clear to me why the $650 fee is warranted. For $650 I can buy about 10 books that help me prep for my CCIE. Are the works of Doyle, Halabi, Caslow, Lee et all now worth as much. I don't believe that each lab takes more work that a book such as yours or Halabi's, the $650 fee may have been appropriate during the boom but I do not believe that such a fee is still reasonable. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=30048&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
Just a couple of things, here. Again, with regards to NLI and their business model, I agree that IMHO it could use some rethinking. HOWEVER.. 1) your money buys you all labs and what so far has been unlimited ongoing support. I.e. any new lab that comes out. Any corrections issued. Who anywhere gives unlimited perpetual support for their products these days? 2) simple economics applies - if you don't like NLI's price, don't pay it. Buy from their competition. IP Expert costs less. Fatkid is free. There are some others around whose names I can't recall off hand, but if memory serves, offer some good study materials. A search of the archives, particularly on the CCIE Lab list, should turn up the names. If NLI finds themselves with no customers, they will lower their price. Simple supply and demand. 3) books cost too much, and too many of them, particularly in the certification arena, are of limited value. Still, I have no reasonable expectation that a publisher owes me the opportunity to buy only particular chapters, or give me my money back after I have discovered how useless their title is. I can't remember the title of that Upton Sinclair socialist book published in the early part of the century, but IIRC, there was an interested discussion in their about cost of books and compensation to authors. "From each according to his ability and to each according to his need" was twisted mightily in that justification, IIRC. Something else to consider. I've rented rack time from both NLI and IP Expert. With NLI, I was able to call, and have someone actually test some voice configurations I was working on. With IP Experts, no such help was available. NLI has been quite responsive to calls for support. IP Expert leaves something to be desired there. I say that even though I prefer IP Expert training materials at this point in time, for reasons I have stated elsewhere. Best wishes and merry Christmas. Chuck -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wojtek Zlobicki Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 1:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] > Developing effective methods for knowledge transfer requires creativity, > skill, time, money, awareness of the audience and their learning styles, > and other resources. The results may be proprietary and there's nothing > wrong with charging for them. I can't comment on the pricing. (Setting a > good price has always seemed like a black art to me, having only taken one > business/marketing type class in my life.) It does seem like different > prices for different countries makes sense, as others have said. A copy of your book graces my bookshelf (I have to admit that I have not had a chance to read it yet). I do not mind paying for the book. There are a number of people here financing their own CCIE, it would be nice if the labs were available in parts (I would be interested in labs 1-10 for example). The labs are extensive (having seen Lab 1 as an example) but are they really worth $650. After having sold 100/1000/2000 lab sets, it becomes less and less clear to me why the $650 fee is warranted. For $650 I can buy about 10 books that help me prep for my CCIE. Are the works of Doyle, Halabi, Caslow, Lee et all now worth as much. I don't believe that each lab takes more work that a book such as yours or Halabi's, the $650 fee may have been appropriate during the boom but I do not believe that such a fee is still reasonable. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=30053&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
At 05:40 PM 12/24/01, Chuck Larrieu wrote: >3) books cost too much, and too many of them, particularly in the >certification arena, are of limited value. Still, I have no reasonable >expectation that a publisher owes me the opportunity to buy only particular >chapters, or give me my money back after I have discovered how useless their >title is. I can't remember the title of that Upton Sinclair socialist book >published in the early part of the century, but IIRC, there was an >interested discussion in their about cost of books and compensation to >authors. "From each according to his ability and to each according to his >need" was twisted mightily in that justification, IIRC. I can't follow your logic, but regarding compensation to authors: We make enough on each book sold to cover the cost of a latte. That's all. We don't see the money. ;-) You may be thinking of the Abbie Hoffman book "Steal this Book." Just kidding! Priscilla >Something else to consider. I've rented rack time from both NLI and IP >Expert. With NLI, I was able to call, and have someone actually test some >voice configurations I was working on. With IP Experts, no such help was >available. NLI has been quite responsive to calls for support. IP Expert >leaves something to be desired there. I say that even though I prefer IP >Expert training materials at this point in time, for reasons I have stated >elsewhere. > >Best wishes and merry Christmas. > >Chuck > > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of >Wojtek Zlobicki >Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 1:51 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] > > > > Developing effective methods for knowledge transfer requires creativity, > > skill, time, money, awareness of the audience and their learning styles, > > and other resources. The results may be proprietary and there's nothing > > wrong with charging for them. I can't comment on the pricing. (Setting a > > good price has always seemed like a black art to me, having only taken one > > business/marketing type class in my life.) It does seem like different > > prices for different countries makes sense, as others have said. > >A copy of your book graces my bookshelf (I have to admit that I have not >had a chance to read it yet). I do not mind paying for the book. There are >a number of people here financing their own CCIE, it would be nice if the >labs were available in parts (I would be interested in labs 1-10 for >example). >The labs are extensive (having seen Lab 1 as an example) but are they >really worth $650. After having sold 100/1000/2000 lab sets, it becomes >less and less clear to me why the $650 fee is warranted. For $650 I can >buy about 10 books that help me prep for my CCIE. Are the works of >Doyle, Halabi, Caslow, Lee et all now worth as much. I don't believe >that each lab takes more work that a book such as yours or Halabi's, >the $650 fee may have been appropriate during the boom but >I do not believe that such a fee is still reasonable. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=30064&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682]
according to the tenets of socialism, a publisher would be compensated only the cost of producing the book. i.e. the cost of paper, the cost of ink, the cost of binding, etc. authors would be compensated based on their need. Since, under socialism, everyone is equal, all you writers would live in the same quality shack the rest of us live in, and you would therefore get about the same as you do now. ;-> under the tenets of socialism CCIE's would achieve because it is "according to their ability" and they would be compensated only enough to support them and their shack, which is identical to those of non CCIE's. Sure makes one wish for socialism ;-> Merry Christmas. Chuck -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Priscilla Oppenheimer Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 5:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] At 05:40 PM 12/24/01, Chuck Larrieu wrote: >3) books cost too much, and too many of them, particularly in the >certification arena, are of limited value. Still, I have no reasonable >expectation that a publisher owes me the opportunity to buy only particular >chapters, or give me my money back after I have discovered how useless their >title is. I can't remember the title of that Upton Sinclair socialist book >published in the early part of the century, but IIRC, there was an >interested discussion in their about cost of books and compensation to >authors. "From each according to his ability and to each according to his >need" was twisted mightily in that justification, IIRC. I can't follow your logic, but regarding compensation to authors: We make enough on each book sold to cover the cost of a latte. That's all. We don't see the money. ;-) You may be thinking of the Abbie Hoffman book "Steal this Book." Just kidding! Priscilla >Something else to consider. I've rented rack time from both NLI and IP >Expert. With NLI, I was able to call, and have someone actually test some >voice configurations I was working on. With IP Experts, no such help was >available. NLI has been quite responsive to calls for support. IP Expert >leaves something to be desired there. I say that even though I prefer IP >Expert training materials at this point in time, for reasons I have stated >elsewhere. > >Best wishes and merry Christmas. > >Chuck > > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of >Wojtek Zlobicki >Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 1:51 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: ccbootcamp part 2 [7:29682] > > > > Developing effective methods for knowledge transfer requires creativity, > > skill, time, money, awareness of the audience and their learning styles, > > and other resources. The results may be proprietary and there's nothing > > wrong with charging for them. I can't comment on the pricing. (Setting a > > good price has always seemed like a black art to me, having only taken one > > business/marketing type class in my life.) It does seem like different > > prices for different countries makes sense, as others have said. > >A copy of your book graces my bookshelf (I have to admit that I have not >had a chance to read it yet). I do not mind paying for the book. There are >a number of people here financing their own CCIE, it would be nice if the >labs were available in parts (I would be interested in labs 1-10 for >example). >The labs are extensive (having seen Lab 1 as an example) but are they >really worth $650. After having sold 100/1000/2000 lab sets, it becomes >less and less clear to me why the $650 fee is warranted. For $650 I can >buy about 10 books that help me prep for my CCIE. Are the works of >Doyle, Halabi, Caslow, Lee et all now worth as much. I don't believe >that each lab takes more work that a book such as yours or Halabi's, >the $650 fee may have been appropriate during the boom but >I do not believe that such a fee is still reasonable. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=30066&t=29682 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
