Re: Native Clojure
Clojure is designed to be hosted. So I'm pretty sure that there are no plan to write a nativ clojure VM but you could try to compile the byte code with llvm. I here there is a java byte code frontend. On Dec 20, 8:43 am, kaveh_shahbazian kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.com wrote: Is there a natively compiled version of Clojure? Is there any plans to do so? Thanks -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
Can you articulate it any better than ah hah!? Heureka! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com writes: * OO programs conflate value, state, and identity. Ah. So, like the confused situations you get with Java's mutable collections. I just thought of a non programming language example which might help explain what state and identity conflation means. The web (as traditionally implemented) conflates state and identity. For instance, suppose I give you this URL: http://www.infoq.com/about; When you resolve that, you instantly get back a value: a particular string of HTML. I can't give you a reference to a particular state of that page. By the time you look at it, it could be completely different to what I saw. This flaw in the model of the web is one of the driving forces behind projects like Memento [1] and WebCite [2]. Wikis on the other hand, typically separate state and identity. With a wiki there's a distinction between an identity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clojure and a state: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clojure?oldid=396404196 I can give you a reference to each independently. Unfortunately while wikis solve the problem, they do it in ad-hoc way. There's no standard mechanism in the HTTP protocol to deref a wiki page and get back the URL of its current state. OO typically unifies identity and state, i.e. an object (identity) is a pointer to the memory that contains the value of its state. There is no way to obtain the state independent of the identity other than copying it. -- clojure.org/state -- [1] http://www.mementoweb.org/about/ [2] http://www.webcitation.org/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: clj-http timeouts
Thanks! That's just what I was looking for. On Dec 19, 5:56 pm, Miki miki.teb...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know how to set connection or read timeouts for clj-http? I didn't see anything in the API. clj-apache-http has that option though (setting http.socket.timeout parameter). HTH, -- Miki -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Can I use pr-str and read-string on datatype?
Hi gurus,
I find clojure can use pr-str and read-string to save/load data. But when I
use read-string to load a instance of a datatype, which is saved to file
using pr-str, an exception thrown.
java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.Exception: No dispatch macro for: :
at clojure.lang.RT.readString(RT.java:1263)
at clojure.core$read_string.invoke(core.clj:2897)
And I opened the file, it looks like following, I think the second char is
the problem.
#:doctor.domain.Project{:name mock-name, :stream mock-stream, .
please advice, thanks alot.
Jason.
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Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
You can't step into the same river twice. In this quote the river is the identity. At any snapshot in time the river is a specific value. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Can I use pr-str and read-string on datatype?
`read` does not yet support datatypes. This is a known problem which *may* be fixed in 1.3. -Stuart Sierra clojure.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Native Clojure
It's theoretically possible, but not under active investigation at this time. -Stuart Sierra clojure.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Can I use pr-str and read-string on datatype
Hi gurus,
I find clojure can use pr-str and read-string to save/load data. But when I
use read-string to load a instance of a datatype, which is saved to file
using pr-str, an exception thrown.
java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.Exception: No dispatch macro for: :
at clojure.lang.RT.readString(RT.
java:1263)
at clojure.core$read_string.invoke(core.clj:2897)
And I opened the file, it looks like following, I think the second char is
the problem.
#:doctor.domain.Project{:name mock-name, :stream mock-stream, .
please advice, thanks alot.
Jason.
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Beginner question to a error please
Hi, I just started a hobby project, it download a webbpage, and extract number data witch exits between brStart rad:/SPAN --and -- /TD Example brStart rad:/SPAN01 20 20 52 32 85 89/TD Everything works fine exept -main witch gives a error i don't understand. Becurse i try to learn Clojure, i like to now what's wrong a way :) Here is my code (ns com.persson.extract ;(:import ) ;(:require ) ) (defn remove-endlines [file] (filter #(not= % \newline) (filter #(not= % \return) file))) (defn get-file-without-endlines[file] (remove-endlines (slurp file) )) (defn -main[] (re-find #brStart rad:\/SPAN*.\/TD (get-file-without-endlines E:/testing/data/1999_1.txt ))) And here is the error --- com.persson.extract= (-main) #CompilerException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.LazySeq cannot be cast to java.lang.CharSequence (NO_SOURCE_FILE:117) Best regards Anders -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Beginner question to a error please
2010/12/20 uap12 anders.u.pers...@gmail.com Hi, I just started a hobby project, it download a webbpage, and extract number data witch exits between brStart rad:/SPAN --and -- /TD Example brStart rad:/SPAN01 20 20 52 32 85 89/TD Everything works fine exept -main witch gives a error i don't understand. Becurse i try to learn Clojure, i like to now what's wrong a way :) Here is my code (ns com.persson.extract ;(:import ) ;(:require ) ) (defn remove-endlines [file] (filter #(not= % \newline) (filter #(not= % \return) file))) (defn get-file-without-endlines[file] (remove-endlines (slurp file) )) (defn -main[] (re-find #brStart rad:\/SPAN*.\/TD (get-file-without-endlines E:/testing/data/1999_1.txt ))) And here is the error --- com.persson.extract= (-main) #CompilerException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.LazySeq cannot be cast to java.lang.CharSequence (NO_SOURCE_FILE:117) The return value of get-file-without-endlines will be a seq of Chars, while re-find expects a CharSequence (generally a String). So to follow in the spirit of your example, you'd have to first convert your seq of Chars back into a string, e.g. via (apply str (get-file-without-endlines )) HTH, -- Laurent Best regards Anders -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comclojure%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Beginner question to a error please
Tanks very mutch for the help. /Anders -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Native Clojure
If you wait for clojure in clojure and then use VMkit (LLVM based thing to do Virtual Machine), it can be an interesting project. I am not sure if it would be considered as really native, though. Nicolas. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: currying in clojure for fixed number of arg functions
+1 on partial with no args ! I have a doubt: using partial conveys the intent, but with automatic currying one may get confused between partial application function call, no? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
ANN: Clojure web application using NHPM for server push
I have posted a repository containing the code for a web application I made using a server push (AKA Comet, long polling) architecture. The front end is in Javascript, and the back end is in Clojure. The clojure code is able to send notifications to clients' browsers effectively through use of nginx's push module, which the clients subscribe to. With websockets presently out of reach this can be a good way of doing this sort of thing, and at least on my small-scale testing it is a super responsive way of simulating a socket. https://github.com/rplevy/sayoperation The application itself is online (for now) at: http://www.robertplevy.net/sayoperation/ A little bit of context is necessary here. This is a game I made as part of my final project for a course I am in (I am taking courses part time as part of an MA program I will eventually complete) on the topic of Machine Learning and Natural Language Processing. The purpose of the game is to collect game move data. I'm in the process of figuring out how to train a classifier to learn to make the same sorts of game moves (though the text generation piece is out of scope), to have 1/2 of an AI game player. If you want to play the game and help me collect training data, here are some things to know: 1. You will be asked to give an instruction to your team mate, given the information on the screen. The red is the target, and the green is what your teammate will move to the target. Notice that the target is always an empty space. For example put the crab above the butterfly would make sense if the crab had a green border, and there were a red bordered target above the butterfly. 2. Use clear and natural language when entering data., try to explain in the way you would explain to a person. Punctuation and capitalization is stripped out/lowercased. 3. The rounds work like this. Player 1 instruct - Player 2 move -- Player 2 instruct -- Player 1 move. The game automatically presents your next available move just like in RIAs such as gchat or facebook (no need to refresh). 4. Multiple concurrent games are encouraged. The game should be responsive and will immediately tell you if you have a move to play in any of your games. 5. Caveat: The application has been tested thoroughly in Firefox and Chrome. While there is no inherent reason why it shouldn't be possible to make it work in Opera or Internet Explorer, I have not tested it in IE (so it probably doesn't work in that browser), and I am aware that it doesn't work in Opera. This is just a matter of time and effort, that I need to spend on the NLP side of this project at the moment. 6. The high scoring team as of 2am tonight will win something (I haven't decide what, give me ideas please). Thanks, Rob -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Native Clojure
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 10:41 AM, nicolas.o...@gmail.com nicolas.o...@gmail.com wrote: If you wait for clojure in clojure and then use VMkit (LLVM based thing to do Virtual Machine), it can be an interesting project. I am not sure if it would be considered as really native, though. Has anyone tried compiling a Clojure project (along with Clojure itself) with gcj or jet? Is it really necessary, though? Hotspot's JIT yields up native-ballpark speeds when you really need them, if you optimize your code appropriately. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Beginner question to a error please
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 10:27 AM, uap12 anders.u.pers...@gmail.com wrote: Tanks very mutch for the help. /Anders Of course (apply str ...) will suck the whole file into ram all at once, eagerly. If it's a multi-gigabyte file expect OOME. It would be nice if there was a variation on re support that worked on arbitrary seqs -- seqs of Characters, at least, and preferably (with suitable additional features) perhaps also seqs of other objects. (Ultimately, it always boils down to a test of whether a particular object meets some criterion. Sometimes that's equality with a particular other object; sometimes membership in a range. Using = and, with ranges, compare with the endpoints seems like it should generalize well, but you might want to be able to supply a set of class-comparator pairs. These could be combined into a multimethod under the hood that acts as a global comparator during what followed. Ranges wouldn't always make sense, such as for maps and sets; lists, seqs, and vectors might have a default comparison that generalizes that for strings, though that will wedge if two equal, infinite seqs ever get compared. Then again so will =.) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote: On 12/19/2010 10:53 PM, Ken Wesson wrote: Ah. So, like the confused situations you get with Java's mutable collections. Two lists are equal if they have the same contents in the same order -- but then you use one as a key in a hashmap, and then add an item to it, and boom! Clojure separates this stuff out because the Clojure vector's immutability makes its value stable given its identity. Refs and atoms and agents can encapsulate mutable state, but their identity (as defined by = and hash) is fixed rather than changing with its state. And some objects (keywords and symbols) exist to be almost pure identity, used to label other things. Something like that? Ummm. no. You're approaching the question in an OO mindset. Excuse me? How rude. In the future if you'd like to offer a criticism of my mindset you can do it off-list! Rich spent the better part of an hour trying to explain the insights that he got from what must certainly be months of reading and thinking. I don't have the better part of an hour, let alone months. If you'd like to effectively convey what you have been trying to convey to various people in this thread, please find some way to condense it. If a single bullet point doesn't suffice to convey it that is hardly my fault. You may have erred too far the other way, condensing it too much. Surely there is a middle ground? @mike, Yes, a video isn't documentation. But the MVCC paper certainly is. Open source software doesn't seem to do documentation (which annoys me also since I'm a literate programming fanatic). For the most part this project's documentation has been pretty good -- the api page, the other clojure.org and clojure.github.com pages, etc. But some of this underlying-philosophy stuff still seems to be locked up in videos and presentations in disparate places, invisible to Google's search and not even all linked from one place (the closest to one place being scattered posts to this list). And apparently these are generally quite long. Videos have several disadvantages over text: * Google can't see inside of them. * You cannot search inside of them. * Tools for bookmarking specific places inside of them are primitive. * You can't read at your own pace, nor skim at all. * Videos tend to mix the meaty information in with jokes, anecdotes, people moving around, and other filler that takes up not only space but time. Much of this wouldn't exist in text and what remained could easily be skimmed or scrolled past by people in a hurry. * Video is bandwidth-intensive. In particular, a talk on video is a staggeringly inefficient use of bandwidth: the textual content, besides being effectively hidden from google and control-F search, takes the form of an audio track of several tens of megabytes in which it is inevitably mixed with some amount of extraneous noise, rather than being a few tens of KB of HTML or a few KB of plain text; what could be a handful of few-KB-each jpegs (e.g. slides presented) embedded in the text via img tags bloats up into a multi-gigabyte video stream where each slide is partly obscured by a talking head. Or perhaps only a couple of hundred megabytes, accompanied by massive quality degradation. Line art slides become blurs at those compression levels. Compare a jerky, stuttery, expensive-if-you're-on-mobile, blurry image of mostly a talking head with somewhat-indistinct and somewhat-noisy audio to a clean page design with text and inline still images that conveys the same information. And can be searched for text, etc. * If animation is really necessary to convey some point, animated gifs and, if you really must resort to it, Flash can be employed. I'm not saying there isn't a place for videos, but they are not *substitutes* for text and if they convey anything we should be referring to commonly (and especially if we should sometimes be referring to a small subset of the information in one, rather than the whole thing at one time) there should be an HTML presentation (text with perhaps inline images, perhaps some of them animated) of the core content as well somewhere. Right now the Clojure documentation-cloud seems to contain several of these indigestible lumps masquerading as proper documentation. That seems like it should be addressed; and the sooner the better. The longer, the more of these non-text resources will accumulate and, worse, the more users will be expected to be familiar with some growing subset of their contents. In the worst case, it would require the equivalent of a week-long training seminar to brush up on it all. Right now Clojure has the great property that with a bit of familiarity with Java and at least one Java IDE you can get started hacking in it within minutes, and even do something useful within hours. I'd hate to see that change or get bogged down in hundreds of minutes and tens of gigabytes of video
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:49 AM, Alex Osborne a...@meshy.org wrote: Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com writes: Ah. So, like the confused situations you get with Java's mutable collections. Two lists are equal if they have the same contents in the same order -- but then you use one as a key in a hashmap, and then add an item to it, and boom! Clojure separates this stuff out because the Clojure vector's immutability makes its value stable given its identity. Refs and atoms and agents can encapsulate mutable state, but their identity (as defined by = and hash) is fixed rather than changing with its state. Sort of. Identity (in the Clojure model) is not the same concept as equality. Nor is it reference equality (identical?). The overloading of terminology is somewhat unfortunate. By identity I mean a stable logical entity associated with a series of different values over time. -- clojure.org/state As Laurent mentioned the usual identities in Clojure are reference objects: vars, atoms, refs and so on. And some objects (keywords and symbols) exist to be almost pure identity, used to label other things. Symbols and keywords (and database IDs) aren't identities, they're identifiers (names). It seems you're using identity a little bit oddly here. In ordinary usage, identity would indeed be close to synonymous with identifier; the way you're using it here is actually closer to the usual comp-sci concept of a variable: a holder of mutable state, which can be pointed to a succession of different individual states. So part of this is a confusion arising from slightly odd or idiosyncratic terminology. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
Hi, if you prefer text over talk: http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf Sincerely Meikel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
No, identifiers are names. Identity transcends names. For example, in a distributed shared object system, multiple machines on the same network will have different identifiers for the same identity. Ordinary usage isn't good enough for metaphysical discussions. There is a metaphysical discussion of identity which applies to this situation, and Rich Hickey has taken a particular position. His position is rigorous, internally consistent, and applicable to how most people in our culture model the world, e.g. it can be used to accomplish work by most of us. Most philosophical discussions of identity really mean equality, at least in Hickey nomenclature. On Dec 20, 12:56 pm, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:49 AM, Alex Osborne a...@meshy.org wrote: Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com writes: Ah. So, like the confused situations you get with Java's mutable collections. Two lists are equal if they have the same contents in the same order -- but then you use one as a key in a hashmap, and then add an item to it, and boom! Clojure separates this stuff out because the Clojure vector's immutability makes its value stable given its identity. Refs and atoms and agents can encapsulate mutable state, but their identity (as defined by = and hash) is fixed rather than changing with its state. Sort of. Identity (in the Clojure model) is not the same concept as equality. Nor is it reference equality (identical?). The overloading of terminology is somewhat unfortunate. By identity I mean a stable logical entity associated with a series of different values over time. -- clojure.org/state As Laurent mentioned the usual identities in Clojure are reference objects: vars, atoms, refs and so on. And some objects (keywords and symbols) exist to be almost pure identity, used to label other things. Symbols and keywords (and database IDs) aren't identities, they're identifiers (names). It seems you're using identity a little bit oddly here. In ordinary usage, identity would indeed be close to synonymous with identifier; the way you're using it here is actually closer to the usual comp-sci concept of a variable: a holder of mutable state, which can be pointed to a succession of different individual states. So part of this is a confusion arising from slightly odd or idiosyncratic terminology.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote: Hi, if you prefer text over talk: http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf *giggle* It figures. I ask for text instead of video so, naturally, I get a PDF link. *falls over laughing* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Alyssa Kwan alyssa.c.k...@gmail.com wrote: No, identifiers are names. Identity transcends names. For example, in a distributed shared object system, multiple machines on the same network will have different identifiers for the same identity. Ordinary usage isn't good enough for metaphysical discussions. There is a metaphysical discussion of identity which applies to this situation, and Rich Hickey has taken a particular position. His position is rigorous, internally consistent, and applicable to how most people in our culture model the world, e.g. it can be used to accomplish work by most of us. Most philosophical discussions of identity really mean equality, at least in Hickey nomenclature. Thanks for making my point for me: identity normally means something other than what it means in Hickey nomenclature. :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On 12/20/10 1:39 PM, Ken Wesson wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyerm...@kotka.de wrote: Hi, if you prefer text over talk: http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf *giggle* It figures. I ask for text instead of video so, naturally, I get a PDF link. *falls over laughing* You have asked others not to reply to you in the same tone you are taking here. This was a sincere effort to help. Please show a little bit more respect. Aaron -- Clojure/core http://clojure.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
I think too many posters here are equating Clojure with Lisp. Clojure is a LISP, but it is not LISP itself. * Mutability is not a given in all LISP implementations, only some of them. * STM transactions (i.e. state and time management upon non-mutable objects) is a Clojure concept, that no other LISP's have. So I will suggest the OP is not having a LISP ah-ha moment, but rather a Clojure ah-ha moment. Lisp does have it's ah-ha moments in other regards as I am sure is the case with any other language when you move from being able use the language for general programming to being able to use the language abstractions ideology to change how you approach programs. It's not like programmers didn't have this when everyone moved to OO languages in the first place - they too had an ah-ha I get OO now. On Dec 19, 6:25 pm, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote: On 12/19/2010 8:20 PM, Ken Wesson wrote: On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Tim Dalyd...@axiom-developer.org wrote: I didn't mean to imply that other people don't have the ah-hah! experience with other languages. However, I have only had the (before lisp)|(after lisp) experience with lisp. Your enlightenment might vary. Rich gave his Whitehead talk and brought up the fact that OO languages get several things wrong. Out of curiosity, which several things were these? http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Are-We-There-Yet-Rich-Hickey -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Aaron Bedra aaron.be...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/20/10 1:39 PM, Ken Wesson wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyerm...@kotka.de wrote: Hi, if you prefer text over talk: http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf *giggle* It figures. I ask for text instead of video so, naturally, I get a PDF link. *falls over laughing* You have asked others not to reply to you in the same tone you are taking here. This was a sincere effort to help. Please show a little bit more respect. I'm sorry, but it's just hilarious the lengths some people apparently go to to avoid plain text/html that you don't need a special browser plugin and a multimegabyte download to view. All those video links and then, when someone finally points to a textual summary for one of them, it's a pdf! It's tragicomic. :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
Hi, Am 20.12.2010 um 19:39 schrieb Ken Wesson: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote: Hi, if you prefer text over talk: http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf *giggle* It figures. I ask for text instead of video so, naturally, I get a PDF link. *falls over laughing* How rude. Searching in the PDF (yes, that works), one finds with ease the definition of all discussed terms like value, identity and state. All on one sheet. How much shorter do you want it? And gone is all ambiguity in the discussion. Sincerely Meikel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote: http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf *giggle* It figures. I ask for text instead of video so, naturally, I get a PDF link. *falls over laughing* How rude. Searching in the PDF (yes, that works), one finds with ease the definition of all discussed terms like value, identity and state. All on one sheet. How much shorter do you want it? I'd like it to fit in under 10KB if at all possible. :) I sometimes browse with mobile devices. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On 12/20/10 1:47 PM, Ken Wesson wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Aaron Bedraaaron.be...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/20/10 1:39 PM, Ken Wesson wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyerm...@kotka.dewrote: Hi, if you prefer text over talk: http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf *giggle* It figures. I ask for text instead of video so, naturally, I get a PDF link. *falls over laughing* You have asked others not to reply to you in the same tone you are taking here. This was a sincere effort to help. Please show a little bit more respect. I'm sorry, but it's just hilarious the lengths some people apparently go to to avoid plain text/html that you don't need a special browser plugin and a multimegabyte download to view. All those video links and then, when someone finally points to a textual summary for one of them, it's a pdf! It's tragicomic. :) If you think it is funny that's absolutely your opinion to keep. It has no place or constructive worth on this mailing list. Please keep this kind of response off the list. Aaron -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: HTML5 Validator
I hadn't considered using an online validator. Given that these are only unit tests, this is the simplest solution. Thanks! On Dec 18, 7:27 pm, Jeff Valk jv-li...@tx.rr.com wrote: On Saturday, December 18, 2010 at 02:10 pm, Alyssa Kwan wrote: I'd like to unit test my html output for well-formedness. What's an easy way to test it for HTML5 validity? Are there good Clojure libs for this? I only need to check for validity, not parse. I'm not aware of a native clojure html validator. That said, the first thing that comes to mind is to use something like clj-http [1] to post your markup to the w3c validator [2]. If you're doing this often, or offline, you could run the validator locally [3]. As a bonus, this method would get you validation for css, rss/atom, etc with miminal extra effort. Perhaps you've already considered this, but I figured I'd toss it out there anyway. Good luck! - Jeff [1]https://github.com/clj-sys/clj-http [2]http://validator.w3.org/#validate_by_input [3]http://validator.w3.org/docs/install.html (also in the debian/ubuntu repos as w3c-markup-validator) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Java out of memory problem
Thank Ken, your suggestion solved my problem with the OOM exception. I tried your suggestion to run it in parallel but I didn't see much difference. Instead I called future on the let call and that helped the performance. On Dec 17, 2:55 pm, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 5:39 PM, clj123 ariela2...@gmail.com wrote: (defn persist-rows [headers rows id] (let [mrows (transform-rows rows id)] (with-db *db* (try (apply insert-into-table :my-table [:col1 :col2 :col3] mrows))) nil )) (defn filter-data [rows item-id header id] (persist-rows header (filter #(= (:item_id %) item-id) rows) id)) (dorun (pmap #(filter-data rows %1 header %2) items id )) Rows gets traversed repeatedly, for each item/id pair. So the head gets held onto. To make this scale you're going to need to regenerate the rows seq for each traversal; you need something like (doseq [[item-id id] (map vector items ids)] (let [rows (generate-rows-however)] (filter-data rows item-id header id))) That's not parallel, but I don't know that parallel buys you much when the task is I/O bound and takes however long it takes the database server to process that number of requests. If parallelism really does buy you something here you could replace (doseq ...) with (dorun (pmap identity (for ...))) and that might parallelize the realization of the items, and thus all of the nested operations.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
What things normally mean has no place in computer science. You have to embrace the jargon to be able to think rationally in the space. This in no way detracts from this discussion. When I say Hickey nomenclature, I mean vis a vis classical philosophy or Hegel. Lay nomenclature only muddies the water. On Dec 20, 1:41 pm, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Alyssa Kwan alyssa.c.k...@gmail.com wrote: No, identifiers are names. Identity transcends names. For example, in a distributed shared object system, multiple machines on the same network will have different identifiers for the same identity. Ordinary usage isn't good enough for metaphysical discussions. There is a metaphysical discussion of identity which applies to this situation, and Rich Hickey has taken a particular position. His position is rigorous, internally consistent, and applicable to how most people in our culture model the world, e.g. it can be used to accomplish work by most of us. Most philosophical discussions of identity really mean equality, at least in Hickey nomenclature. Thanks for making my point for me: identity normally means something other than what it means in Hickey nomenclature. :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
Hi Ken, I'd like to nominate you on behalf of the Clojure community to convert all non-text resources into text only resources. You officially have my vote. I think your passion makes you the perfect candidate to do this work. In the mean time I'd like to extend a thanks to all the folks having taken the time producing these resources - they have helped immensely. On Dec 20, 11:50 am, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote: http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf *giggle* It figures. I ask for text instead of video so, naturally, I get a PDF link. *falls over laughing* How rude. Searching in the PDF (yes, that works), one finds with ease the definition of all discussed terms like value, identity and state. All on one sheet. How much shorter do you want it? I'd like it to fit in under 10KB if at all possible. :) I sometimes browse with mobile devices. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Native Clojure
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:19:59 -0500 Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone tried compiling a Clojure project (along with Clojure itself) with gcj or jet? I tried to compile Clojure 1.2 with GCJ. To avoid compilation errors I had to replace some classes in GNU Classpath with versions from OpenJDK. Still no success: GCJ displayed no errors but used up all available virtual memory and crashed. Compiling Clojure to native code would likely degrade overall performance but may improve startup speed. HotSpot uses adaptive optimizations based on runtime profiling information and also can better handle dynamically generated bytecode. -- Mikhail -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Native Clojure
I understand hosting on a VM has it's own (huge) advantages: GC, libraries, proved practices and vast amount of research and community effort already available; no doubt on that part. It is just having a mature and well designed cross-platform natively compiled language (other than C and C++) has it's own advantages (I do not mean Clojure should go down that path; I was just asking). Some high level languages come to mind like Haskell, OCaml, Gambit-C Scheme (and for sure some others) but they lack in some areas and not fully cross platform. Clojure is a fantastic language (Although I have just scratched the surface) and It would be nice to have it natively compiled. Thanks -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On 12/20/2010 1:47 PM, Ken Wesson wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Aaron Bedraaaron.be...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/20/10 1:39 PM, Ken Wesson wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyerm...@kotka.dewrote: Hi, if you prefer text over talk: http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf *giggle* It figures. I ask for text instead of video so, naturally, I get a PDF link. *falls over laughing* You have asked others not to reply to you in the same tone you are taking here. This was a sincere effort to help. Please show a little bit more respect. I'm sorry, but it's just hilarious the lengths some people apparently go to to avoid plain text/html that you don't need a special browser plugin and a multimegabyte download to view. All those video links and then, when someone finally points to a textual summary for one of them, it's a pdf! It's tragicomic. :) I am amazed that you find a link to a scholarly article inappropriate. It is copyrighted material and cannot be converted to ascii for your use. Don't read the pdf, print it. It takes time to watch the videos and it takes time to read the papers. It takes time to read Whitehead's book and the Spikes book. It takes time to read the source code. There is no need to summarize these sources in order to understand them since I have invested considerable time already. The posted links to my primary source materials are for your convenience. This is an open source project and, as such, it suggests that Advocacy is volunteering. If you advocate better documentation and well-written summaries then volunteer to do it. Tim Daly -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:26:49 +0100 Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote: Hi, if you prefer text over talk: http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf Thanks for the link. To bad it made Tufte kill a kitten. I had forgotten there was a textual representation with a lower information density per bit than video. But it does get the ideas across. It seems a lot of this could have come from other applications I'm using these days, like mercurial (with an immutable history) or zfs (with an immutable file system). Thanks again, mike -- Mike Meyer m...@mired.org http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On 12/20/2010 1:42 PM, Tim Robinson wrote: I think too many posters here are equating Clojure with Lisp. Clojure is a LISP, but it is not LISP itself. Since I've worked in a dozen Lisps (golden common, VMLisp, Lisp370, Zetalisp, MacLisp, Lisp 1.5, Orien Lisp, etc.) I don't think I would equate Clojure with Lisp. The question I was wrestling with was whether Clojure IS a Lisp, as opposed to a domain-specific language for using immutable Seq data structures over Java. * Mutability is not a given in all LISP implementations, only some of them. * STM transactions (i.e. state and time management upon non-mutable objects) is a Clojure concept, that no other LISP's have. So I will suggest the OP is not having a LISP ah-ha moment, but rather a Clojure ah-ha moment. Lisp does have it's ah-ha moments in other regards as I am sure is the case with any other language when you move from being able use the language for general programming to being able to use the language abstractions ideology to change how you approach programs. It's not like programmers didn't have this when everyone moved to OO languages in the first place - they too had an ah-ha I get OO now. You may be right that other people have the ah-hah! moment for their particular language or concepts. My comment was that this event is associated with Lisp and that it is different from getting the OO mindset or getting rule-based programming, etc. I was getting the STM and immutability concepts but those were not sufficient to establish (for me) Lisp. Your enlightenment may vary. Tim Daly -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Native Clojure
I looked into this a while back. Unfortunetly, Clojure really is designed to be run on a VM. It makes heavy use of the GC, reflection, and OOP. Clojure is a fantastic language (Although I have just scratched the surface) and It would be nice to have it natively compiled. Why would it be nice? When I started working on clojure-cxx I thought it would be nice as well. But the fact remains, you gain so much from writing it on a VM, it would take a massive effort to port it to C++ or another machine language. And in the end, your native code really isn't going to be too much faster. You might get better memory performance, but I'm not convinced it's worth the effort. Even if you get all that straightened out, you still lack a good standard lib. This is what really killed the project for me. Read up on C++ linking sometime. Trying to get something like .JARs or .net assemblies working on a native level is a nightmare to say the least. If anyone has questions about the work I did, let me know, I'd be more than happy to expound on my findings. Timothy -- “One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that–lacking zero–they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs.” (Robert Firth) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Native Clojure
On 20 Dec 2010, at 18:19, Ken Wesson wrote: Is it really necessary, though? Hotspot's JIT yields up native-ballpark speeds when you really need them, if you optimize your code appropriately. For me, a native-code implementation of Clojure would be of interest for interfacing with libraries written in C, C++, and Fortran. The same goal could probably be achieved otherwise (compiling Java bytecode to native code, or simply a JVM with a better native interface than JNI), but at the moment I see no satisfying solution. Konrad. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Native Clojure
Is it really necessary, though? Hotspot's JIT yields up native-ballpark speeds when you really need them, if you optimize your code appropriately. For me, a native-code implementation of Clojure would be of interest for interfacing with libraries written in C, C++, and Fortran. The same goal could probably be achieved otherwise (compiling Java bytecode to native code, or simply a JVM with a better native interface than JNI), but at the moment I see no satisfying solution. Have fun with that. For C it would be easy-ish to create a pinvoke like system. But for C++.yehhh.the way C++ is linked is just wrong. Sometimes linkers can't even link between two different versions of the same compiler. On top of that, how are you going to get class definitions? Parsing the C++ headers is a job and a half. And you can't start with the .dll as most of those have function names stripped out of them. This is was the reason COM was created. And in the end, you still don't have any sort of reflection. I know nothing of Fortran, so you may have some luck there. Timothy -- “One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that–lacking zero–they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs.” (Robert Firth) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Native Clojure
On 20 Dec 2010, at 21:28, Timothy Baldridge wrote: Have fun with that. For C it would be easy-ish to create a pinvoke like system. But for C++.yehhh.the way C++ is linked is just wrong. Sometimes linkers can't even link between two different C would be fine. I wouldn't mind writing a C wrapper for the occasional C++ library. Same for Fortran: interfacing at the C level is fine, there are tools already that take care of the Fortran specificities. The important point for me is the ability to access large (even huge) arrays from the JVM and the C side without any copying, transforming, or whatever. Plus a portable way to call C routines. Konrad. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Beginner question to a error please
2010/12/20 Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 10:27 AM, uap12 anders.u.pers...@gmail.com wrote: Tanks very mutch for the help. /Anders Of course (apply str ...) will suck the whole file into ram all at slurp will suffice to suck everything into memory once, eagerly. If it's a multi-gigabyte file expect OOME. It would be nice if there was a variation on re support that worked on arbitrary seqs -- seqs of Characters, at least, and preferably (with suitable additional features) perhaps also seqs of other objects. (Ultimately, it always boils down to a test of whether a particular object meets some criterion. Sometimes that's equality with a particular other object; sometimes membership in a range. Using = and, with ranges, compare with the endpoints seems like it should generalize well, but you might want to be able to supply a set of class-comparator pairs. These could be combined into a multimethod under the hood that acts as a global comparator during what followed. Ranges wouldn't always make sense, such as for maps and sets; lists, seqs, and vectors might have a default comparison that generalizes that for strings, though that will wedge if two equal, infinite seqs ever get compared. Then again so will =.) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comclojure%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
I generally find it easier to get the bigger picture of something when I'm stepping a little bit back. With programming languages, sometimes it can involve discovering language n+1 to give some new perspective on language n, and getting the ah ah moment with language n. For example, it's hard to find books about the philosophy of object-oriented programming in Java. Books generally go to the details. I had to go get some knowledge in Bertrand Meyer's books as well as see prototype-based object oriented programming in javascript (as opposed to class-based object oriented programming in java). Smalltak serves the purpose as well, putting the focus more on the object than the class. With lisp flavors, maybe it's because lisp is homoiconic you can get the language without going outside it ;-) 2010/12/20 Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org On 12/20/2010 1:42 PM, Tim Robinson wrote: I think too many posters here are equating Clojure with Lisp. Clojure is a LISP, but it is not LISP itself. Since I've worked in a dozen Lisps (golden common, VMLisp, Lisp370, Zetalisp, MacLisp, Lisp 1.5, Orien Lisp, etc.) I don't think I would equate Clojure with Lisp. The question I was wrestling with was whether Clojure IS a Lisp, as opposed to a domain-specific language for using immutable Seq data structures over Java. * Mutability is not a given in all LISP implementations, only some of them. * STM transactions (i.e. state and time management upon non-mutable objects) is a Clojure concept, that no other LISP's have. So I will suggest the OP is not having a LISP ah-ha moment, but rather a Clojure ah-ha moment. Lisp does have it's ah-ha moments in other regards as I am sure is the case with any other language when you move from being able use the language for general programming to being able to use the language abstractions ideology to change how you approach programs. It's not like programmers didn't have this when everyone moved to OO languages in the first place - they too had an ah-ha I get OO now. You may be right that other people have the ah-hah! moment for their particular language or concepts. My comment was that this event is associated with Lisp and that it is different from getting the OO mindset or getting rule-based programming, etc. I was getting the STM and immutability concepts but those were not sufficient to establish (for me) Lisp. Your enlightenment may vary. Tim Daly -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comclojure%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
2010/12/20 Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote: On 12/19/2010 10:53 PM, Ken Wesson wrote: Ah. So, like the confused situations you get with Java's mutable collections. Two lists are equal if they have the same contents in the same order -- but then you use one as a key in a hashmap, and then add an item to it, and boom! Clojure separates this stuff out because the Clojure vector's immutability makes its value stable given its identity. Refs and atoms and agents can encapsulate mutable state, but their identity (as defined by = and hash) is fixed rather than changing with its state. And some objects (keywords and symbols) exist to be almost pure identity, used to label other things. Something like that? Ummm. no. You're approaching the question in an OO mindset. Excuse me? How rude. In the future if you'd like to offer a criticism of my mindset you can do it off-list! Rich spent the better part of an hour trying to explain the insights that he got from what must certainly be months of reading and thinking. I don't have the better part of an hour, let alone months. Ken, with all the respect which is due to you, if you're out of ideas to find some time reading the linked material, you could probably re-focus *some* of the time you spend sometimes debating (arguing) at lengths (lots of brower pages in my 1024x768 laptop) in this list to see/read/watch the material you're critical about. And if you don't like videos or pdfs, you can certainly find a way to say so without being rude to the people which (still) take the time to answer you. Cheers, -- Laurent If you'd like to effectively convey what you have been trying to convey to various people in this thread, please find some way to condense it. If a single bullet point doesn't suffice to convey it that is hardly my fault. You may have erred too far the other way, condensing it too much. Surely there is a middle ground? @mike, Yes, a video isn't documentation. But the MVCC paper certainly is. Open source software doesn't seem to do documentation (which annoys me also since I'm a literate programming fanatic). For the most part this project's documentation has been pretty good -- the api page, the other clojure.org and clojure.github.com pages, etc. But some of this underlying-philosophy stuff still seems to be locked up in videos and presentations in disparate places, invisible to Google's search and not even all linked from one place (the closest to one place being scattered posts to this list). And apparently these are generally quite long. Videos have several disadvantages over text: * Google can't see inside of them. * You cannot search inside of them. * Tools for bookmarking specific places inside of them are primitive. * You can't read at your own pace, nor skim at all. * Videos tend to mix the meaty information in with jokes, anecdotes, people moving around, and other filler that takes up not only space but time. Much of this wouldn't exist in text and what remained could easily be skimmed or scrolled past by people in a hurry. * Video is bandwidth-intensive. In particular, a talk on video is a staggeringly inefficient use of bandwidth: the textual content, besides being effectively hidden from google and control-F search, takes the form of an audio track of several tens of megabytes in which it is inevitably mixed with some amount of extraneous noise, rather than being a few tens of KB of HTML or a few KB of plain text; what could be a handful of few-KB-each jpegs (e.g. slides presented) embedded in the text via img tags bloats up into a multi-gigabyte video stream where each slide is partly obscured by a talking head. Or perhaps only a couple of hundred megabytes, accompanied by massive quality degradation. Line art slides become blurs at those compression levels. Compare a jerky, stuttery, expensive-if-you're-on-mobile, blurry image of mostly a talking head with somewhat-indistinct and somewhat-noisy audio to a clean page design with text and inline still images that conveys the same information. And can be searched for text, etc. * If animation is really necessary to convey some point, animated gifs and, if you really must resort to it, Flash can be employed. I'm not saying there isn't a place for videos, but they are not *substitutes* for text and if they convey anything we should be referring to commonly (and especially if we should sometimes be referring to a small subset of the information in one, rather than the whole thing at one time) there should be an HTML presentation (text with perhaps inline images, perhaps some of them animated) of the core content as well somewhere. Right now the Clojure documentation-cloud seems to contain several of these indigestible lumps masquerading as proper documentation. That seems like it should be addressed; and
Re: Beginner question to a error please
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Laurent PETIT laurent.pe...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/12/20 Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 10:27 AM, uap12 anders.u.pers...@gmail.com wrote: Tanks very mutch for the help. /Anders Of course (apply str ...) will suck the whole file into ram all at slurp will suffice to suck everything into memory True. You need a seq view of the file, perhaps with line-seq or perhaps with a seq wrapper around the stream to get a char seq. The latter can probably be hacked up fairly quickly using lazy-seq; it's surprising it's not (to my knowledge) in core, really. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Alyssa Kwan alyssa.c.k...@gmail.com wrote: What things normally mean has no place in computer science. You have to embrace the jargon to be able to think rationally in the space. This in no way detracts from this discussion. I meant what things normally mean in computer science. :) Maybe it's good if Hickey is able to rewrite the books on computer science; but in the meantime we are left with some terminological impedance mismatches between Hickey nomenclature and more typical comp sci nomenclature. That's not a value judgment; it's just a statement of fact. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Tim Robinson tim.blacks...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ken, I'd like to nominate you on behalf of the Clojure community to convert all non-text resources into text only resources. Sorry, but I must decline; I simply don't have the time to do so. As I already mentioned I don't even have the time to browse those non-text resources right now. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote: I am amazed that you find a link to a scholarly article inappropriate. I didn't find the link inappropriate. No doubt the content is just peachy. I did find the format problematic. I much prefer stuff I can simply browse in my web browser as normal, without involving special plugins or external applications and without the files themselves being enormous, as videos and pdfs are wont to be. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote: I did find the format problematic. I much prefer stuff I can simply browse in my web browser as normal, without involving special plugins or external applications and without the files themselves being enormous, as videos and pdfs are wont to be. $0.02 for the most part i'm quite +N with Mr. Wesson. in case he's feeling lonely. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Mike Meyer mwm-keyword-googlegroups.620...@mired.org wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:26:49 +0100 Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote: http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf Thanks for the link. To bad it made Tufte kill a kitten. I had forgotten there was a textual representation with a lower information density per bit than video. Did you mean a higher information density per bit? The key concepts can no doubt be conveyed in a few tens of KB of html and still images -- under a megabyte, certainly. Compare that to the larger size of a pdf, and the still larger size of video of any decent quality and resolution. The information density is higher for the more compact representation of the same key information; the rest is, in effect, anti-compressed. It may add some side channel information that was otherwise lack -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Working with maps and vectors
Hi,
I have some questions related with maps and vectors, if someone can
help me I will appreciate it a lot.
I have a vector like:
[a1 a2 a3 b1 b2 b3 c1 c2 c3]
And I would like to have:
[[a1 a2 a3] [b1 b2 b3] [c1 c2 c3]]
Until now I have done:
(map vector (take 3 [a1 a2 a3 b1 b2 b3 c1 c2 c3]))
Which returns (a LazySeq, and I would like a vector):
([a1] [a2] [a3])
I have a map that represents provinces and seats, like this:
{p1 5, p2 8, p3 13, p4 11}
Which means that in p1 5 seats will be distributed, 8 for p2, and
so on.
And a vector where its elements are vectors formed by a political
party, a province and the votes he got. Like this:
[[A p1 32] [B p1 55] [A p2 77] [B p2 21] ...]
I need, for each province, to distribute the seats among the parties
according to the number of votes following this rule:
For each party, i should get a lazy sequence with the values of:
#votes/1, #votes/2, #votes/3, #votes/4, ...
So, in this example, for the p1 province I would have:
For A party: 32, 16, 32/3, 8, ...
And for B party: 55, 55/2, 55/3, 55/4, ...
And I should pick up the first X bigger values between all the
sequences, where X is the number of seats. In this example is 5.
So I should pick up: 55, 32, 55/2, 55/3, 16
And the result for this province would be a map showing, for each
party, the seats that they got. In this example: {B 3, A 2}
I'm not familiar with Clojure, and I don't know how to use many
functions. Any reference to high-level functions that I should use,
and how to use them will be appreciated.
Thanks.
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Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Laurent PETIT laurent.pe...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/12/20 Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Tim Daly d...@axiom-developer.org wrote: On 12/19/2010 10:53 PM, Ken Wesson wrote: Ah. So, like the confused situations you get with Java's mutable collections. Two lists are equal if they have the same contents in the same order -- but then you use one as a key in a hashmap, and then add an item to it, and boom! Clojure separates this stuff out because the Clojure vector's immutability makes its value stable given its identity. Refs and atoms and agents can encapsulate mutable state, but their identity (as defined by = and hash) is fixed rather than changing with its state. And some objects (keywords and symbols) exist to be almost pure identity, used to label other things. Something like that? Ummm. no. You're approaching the question in an OO mindset. Excuse me? How rude. In the future if you'd like to offer a criticism of my mindset you can do it off-list! Rich spent the better part of an hour trying to explain the insights that he got from what must certainly be months of reading and thinking. I don't have the better part of an hour, let alone months. Ken, with all the respect which is due to you, if you're out of ideas to find some time reading the linked material, you could probably re-focus *some* of the time you spend sometimes debating (arguing) at lengths (lots of brower pages in my 1024x768 laptop) in this list to see/read/watch the material you're critical about. Sorry, things are a little hectic around here right now. And if you don't like videos or pdfs, you can certainly find a way to say so without being rude to the people which (still) take the time to answer you. I'm not trying to be rude. I just thought it hilarious that after I specifically objected to videos partly on bandwidth grounds, partly on have-to-use-a-proprietary-browser-plugin grounds, and etc., someone suggested a pdf as a substitute. You have to admit that that IS kind of funny. :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Working with maps and vectors
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Anclj anb...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I have some questions related with maps and vectors, if someone can
help me I will appreciate it a lot.
I have a vector like:
[a1 a2 a3 b1 b2 b3 c1 c2 c3]
And I would like to have:
[[a1 a2 a3] [b1 b2 b3] [c1 c2 c3]]
user= (into [] (map vec (partition 3 [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9])))
[[1 2 3]
[4 5 6]
[7 8 9]]
I have a map that represents provinces and seats, like this:
{p1 5, p2 8, p3 13, p4 11}
Which means that in p1 5 seats will be distributed, 8 for p2, and
so on.
And a vector where its elements are vectors formed by a political
party, a province and the votes he got. Like this:
[[A p1 32] [B p1 55] [A p2 77] [B p2 21] ...]
I need, for each province, to distribute the seats among the parties
according to the number of votes following this rule:
For each party, i should get a lazy sequence with the values of:
#votes/1, #votes/2, #votes/3, #votes/4, ...
So, in this example, for the p1 province I would have:
For A party: 32, 16, 32/3, 8, ...
And for B party: 55, 55/2, 55/3, 55/4, ...
(map #(/ votes %) (iterate inc 1))
I'm not familiar with Clojure, and I don't know how to use many
functions. Any reference to high-level functions that I should use,
and how to use them will be appreciated.
Hope the above gets you started. Obviously it won't do any more than
that -- partly because I don't have much time right now and partly
because I suspect I might be doing your homework for you if I went
much further. :)
--
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Re: Working with maps and vectors
Since Ken doesn't mention it explicitly: there's a difference between
vec and vector. (vec x) returns a vector containing all the elements
of x - a vector view of x, I think the doc mentions. (vector x)
returns a vector containing the single element x.
On Dec 20, 1:33 pm, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Anclj anb...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I have some questions related with maps and vectors, if someone can
help me I will appreciate it a lot.
I have a vector like:
[a1 a2 a3 b1 b2 b3 c1 c2 c3]
And I would like to have:
[[a1 a2 a3] [b1 b2 b3] [c1 c2 c3]]
user= (into [] (map vec (partition 3 [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9])))
[[1 2 3]
[4 5 6]
[7 8 9]]
I have a map that represents provinces and seats, like this:
{p1 5, p2 8, p3 13, p4 11}
Which means that in p1 5 seats will be distributed, 8 for p2, and
so on.
And a vector where its elements are vectors formed by a political
party, a province and the votes he got. Like this:
[[A p1 32] [B p1 55] [A p2 77] [B p2 21] ...]
I need, for each province, to distribute the seats among the parties
according to the number of votes following this rule:
For each party, i should get a lazy sequence with the values of:
#votes/1, #votes/2, #votes/3, #votes/4, ...
So, in this example, for the p1 province I would have:
For A party: 32, 16, 32/3, 8, ...
And for B party: 55, 55/2, 55/3, 55/4, ...
(map #(/ votes %) (iterate inc 1))
I'm not familiar with Clojure, and I don't know how to use many
functions. Any reference to high-level functions that I should use,
and how to use them will be appreciated.
Hope the above gets you started. Obviously it won't do any more than
that -- partly because I don't have much time right now and partly
because I suspect I might be doing your homework for you if I went
much further. :)
--
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Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:27:11 -0500 Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Mike Meyer mwm-keyword-googlegroups.620...@mired.org wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:26:49 +0100 Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote: http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf Thanks for the link. To bad it made Tufte kill a kitten. I had forgotten there was a textual representation with a lower information density per bit than video. Did you mean a higher information density per bit? No, I meant lower. mike -- Mike Meyer m...@mired.org http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Working with maps and vectors
Thanks a lot for the fast reply!
Now I have the vector as I wanted.
I have been playing with your code: (map #(/ votes %) (iterate inc 1))
user= (take 10 (map #(/ 100 %) (iterate inc 1)))
(100 50 100/3 25 20 50/3 100/7 25/2 100/9 10)
I have managed to put that in a lazy sequence:
user= (def ls (lazy-seq (map #(/ 100 %) (iterate inc 1
#'user/ls
And then retrieve the values I want with:
user= (take 5 ls)
(100 50 100/3 25 20)
I don't know how to filter and work with the vector map in order to
apply that function for each party, in each province.
I have been trying to use the filter function but I get the following
error:
user= (filter #A [[A p1 32] [B p1 55] [A p2 77]
[B p2 21]])
java.lang.ClassCastException: java.util.regex.Pattern cannot be cast
to clojure.lang.IFn
Thanks again and I will be posting any advances!
On 20 Des, 22:44, Alan a...@malloys.org wrote:
Since Ken doesn't mention it explicitly: there's a difference between
vec and vector. (vec x) returns a vector containing all the elements
of x - a vector view of x, I think the doc mentions. (vector x)
returns a vector containing the single element x.
On Dec 20, 1:33 pm, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Anclj anb...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I have some questions related with maps and vectors, if someone can
help me I will appreciate it a lot.
I have a vector like:
[a1 a2 a3 b1 b2 b3 c1 c2 c3]
And I would like to have:
[[a1 a2 a3] [b1 b2 b3] [c1 c2 c3]]
user= (into [] (map vec (partition 3 [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9])))
[[1 2 3]
[4 5 6]
[7 8 9]]
I have a map that represents provinces and seats, like this:
{p1 5, p2 8, p3 13, p4 11}
Which means that in p1 5 seats will be distributed, 8 for p2, and
so on.
And a vector where its elements are vectors formed by a political
party, a province and the votes he got. Like this:
[[A p1 32] [B p1 55] [A p2 77] [B p2 21] ...]
I need, for each province, to distribute the seats among the parties
according to the number of votes following this rule:
For each party, i should get a lazy sequence with the values of:
#votes/1, #votes/2, #votes/3, #votes/4, ...
So, in this example, for the p1 province I would have:
For A party: 32, 16, 32/3, 8, ...
And for B party: 55, 55/2, 55/3, 55/4, ...
(map #(/ votes %) (iterate inc 1))
I'm not familiar with Clojure, and I don't know how to use many
functions. Any reference to high-level functions that I should use,
and how to use them will be appreciated.
Hope the above gets you started. Obviously it won't do any more than
that -- partly because I don't have much time right now and partly
because I suspect I might be doing your homework for you if I went
much further. :)
--
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Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Tuesday, December 21, 2010 4:47:56 AM UTC+11, Ken Wesson wrote: But some of this underlying-philosophy stuff still seems to be locked up in videos and presentations in disparate places, invisible to Google's search and not even all linked from one place (the closest to one place being scattered posts to this list). And apparently these The short version is here: http://clojure.org/state - Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Working with maps and vectors
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Anclj anb...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks a lot for the fast reply! Now I have the vector as I wanted. I have been playing with your code: (map #(/ votes %) (iterate inc 1)) user= (take 10 (map #(/ 100 %) (iterate inc 1))) (100 50 100/3 25 20 50/3 100/7 25/2 100/9 10) I have managed to put that in a lazy sequence: user= (def ls (lazy-seq (map #(/ 100 %) (iterate inc 1 #'user/ls Eh. (map #(/ votes %) (iterate inc 1)) itself produces a lazy sequence, since map and iterate are lazy. I don't know how to filter and work with the vector map in order to apply that function for each party, in each province. I have been trying to use the filter function but I get the following error: user= (filter #A [[A p1 32] [B p1 55] [A p2 77] [B p2 21]]) java.lang.ClassCastException: java.util.regex.Pattern cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn For this, you can just use #(= A %) as your predicate; there's no need to use regex matching. If you need a regex, use #(re-matches #pattern %) as your predicate, instead of the regex itself. Thanks again and I will be posting any advances! You're welcome. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Mike Meyer mwm-keyword-googlegroups.620...@mired.org wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:27:11 -0500 Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Mike Meyer mwm-keyword-googlegroups.620...@mired.org wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:26:49 +0100 Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote: http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf Thanks for the link. To bad it made Tufte kill a kitten. I had forgotten there was a textual representation with a lower information density per bit than video. Did you mean a higher information density per bit? No, I meant lower. But I just explained how a bloated presentation of the same information has a lower (useful) information density per bit than does a textual one. O ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org This is a bit ironic in context. You appear to champion big clunky video and pdf files in place of html+inline images documentation on the web, but for email, the lighter the better? That seems a little bit inconsistent to me. :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Steve stephen.a.lind...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday, December 21, 2010 4:47:56 AM UTC+11, Ken Wesson wrote: But some of this underlying-philosophy stuff still seems to be locked up in videos and presentations in disparate places, invisible to Google's search and not even all linked from one place (the closest to one place being scattered posts to this list). And apparently these The short version is here: http://clojure.org/state Thanks; I'll check it out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Dec 20, 10:53 am, Aaron Bedra aaron.be...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/20/10 1:47 PM, Ken Wesson wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Aaron Bedraaaron.be...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/20/10 1:39 PM, Ken Wesson wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyerm...@kotka.de wrote: Hi, if you prefer text over talk: http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf *giggle* It figures. I ask for text instead of video so, naturally, I get a PDF link. *falls over laughing* You have asked others not to reply to you in the same tone you are taking here. This was a sincere effort to help. Please show a little bit more respect. I'm sorry, but it's just hilarious the lengths some people apparently go to to avoid plain text/html that you don't need a special browser plugin and a multimegabyte download to view. All those video links and then, when someone finally points to a textual summary for one of them, it's a pdf! It's tragicomic. :) If you think it is funny that's absolutely your opinion to keep. It has no place or constructive worth on this mailing list. Please keep this kind of response off the list. Agreed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
'case' macro problem when clause is a type
Hello Clojure land! I am writing a function that I just realized that I could implement using multi methods (I think). However, I will describe the problem anyways. I want to be able to call a function that will take different actions depending on the type of in the input. I first wrote this function. -- (defn panda [x] (case (type x) java.lang.String HELLZ YEAH IT'S A STRING! java.lang.Integer it's an integer..)) -- Here is the output of when I test the function. -- user= (panda 6) java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching clause: class java.lang.Integer (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0) user= (panda apple) java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching clause: class java.lang.String ( NO_SOURCE_FILE:0) -- An error gets thrown even though I provided a matching clause. I believe it has something to do with the 'case' macro but I am probably wrong. I rewrote the function as so: -- (defn panda-2 [x] (let [xType (type x)] (cond (= java.lang.String xType) HELLZ YEAH IT'S A STRING! (= java.lang.Integer xType) it's an integer...))) -- It works as expected but I would really like to be able to use the 'case' macro instead because it would make my code prettier and I like pretty code. Thank you for your time! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: 'case' macro problem when clause is a type
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 10:54 PM, Stephen Pardue pardue.step...@gmail.comwrote: (defn panda-2 [x] (let [xType (type x)] (cond (= java.lang.String xType) HELLZ YEAH IT'S A STRING! (= java.lang.Integer xType) it's an integer...))) You should take a look at condp. If you find yourself dispatching on type a lot and performance is of the essence then you should take a look at deftype/record and protocols. If generality is more important (dispatching on more than the first argument), multimethods are great. David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 10:39 PM, javajosh javaj...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 20, 10:53 am, Aaron Bedra aaron.be...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/20/10 1:47 PM, Ken Wesson wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Aaron Bedraaaron.be...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/20/10 1:39 PM, Ken Wesson wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyerm...@kotka.de wrote: Hi, if you prefer text over talk: http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/AreWeThereYet.pdf *giggle* It figures. I ask for text instead of video so, naturally, I get a PDF link. *falls over laughing* You have asked others not to reply to you in the same tone you are taking here. This was a sincere effort to help. Please show a little bit more respect. I'm sorry, but it's just hilarious the lengths some people apparently go to to avoid plain text/html that you don't need a special browser plugin and a multimegabyte download to view. All those video links and then, when someone finally points to a textual summary for one of them, it's a pdf! It's tragicomic. :) If you think it is funny that's absolutely your opinion to keep. It has no place or constructive worth on this mailing list. Please keep this kind of response off the list. Agreed. But that would leave people with the misleading impression that a pdf file is an adequate choice, even when I'm on my mobile ... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Native Clojure
Hi Konrad, Have you tried giws (spelt opposite of swig) .. it automatically generates all the necessary jni stuff necessary for any java-class .. It takes an xml file as input and generates any necessary jni-wrappers .. It can only acess the class member-functions not member-values. I have tried it .. it is really nice .. all one would have to do is just generate an xml file for the class under consideration.. but I have only looked at it from the point of view of calling java/clojure code from c/c++ .. not the other way around .. it was infact designed for that purpose.. This is what enable scilab to acess some of the java functionality in scipy. you may want to look at it... http://www.scilab.org/products/other/giws http://www.scilab.org/products/other/giwsIt is very seamless once you have the xml file .. but it can be easily generated using reflection in java .. so is not much of an issue.. Sunil. On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 1:53 AM, Konrad Hinsen konrad.hin...@fastmail.netwrote: On 20 Dec 2010, at 18:19, Ken Wesson wrote: Is it really necessary, though? Hotspot's JIT yields up native-ballpark speeds when you really need them, if you optimize your code appropriately. For me, a native-code implementation of Clojure would be of interest for interfacing with libraries written in C, C++, and Fortran. The same goal could probably be achieved otherwise (compiling Java bytecode to native code, or simply a JVM with a better native interface than JNI), but at the moment I see no satisfying solution. Konrad. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comclojure%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: 'case' macro problem when clause is a type
user (type 'java.lang.Integer) clojure.lang.Symbol user the docs for case say the test constants are not evaluated. On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 8:16 PM, David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 10:54 PM, Stephen Pardue pardue.step...@gmail.com wrote: (defn panda-2 [x] (let [xType (type x)] (cond (= java.lang.String xType) HELLZ YEAH IT'S A STRING! (= java.lang.Integer xType) it's an integer...))) You should take a look at condp. If you find yourself dispatching on type a lot and performance is of the essence then you should take a look at deftype/record and protocols. If generality is more important (dispatching on more than the first argument), multimethods are great. David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- And what is good, Phaedrus, And what is not good— Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote: But that would leave people with the misleading impression that a pdf file is an adequate choice, even when I'm on my mobile ... It's a perfectly adequate choice on my mobile... I read PDFs all the time on my phone. (sorry, I've been trying really hard not to respond to Ken's posts but in the end I just couldn't help myself!) -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: 'case' macro problem when clause is a type
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:54 PM, Stephen Pardue pardue.step...@gmail.com wrote: (defn panda [x] (case (type x) java.lang.String HELLZ YEAH IT'S A STRING! java.lang.Integer it's an integer..)) Since (type x) returns a Class object, you could do this: user= (defn panda[x] (case (.getName (type x)) java.lang.String HELLZ YEAH IT'S A STRING! java.lang.Integer it's an integer..)) #'user/panda user= (panda 6) it's an integer.. user= (panda apple) HELLZ YEAH IT'S A STRING! user= -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Ah-hah! Clojure is a Lisp
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 12:16 AM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote: But that would leave people with the misleading impression that a pdf file is an adequate choice, even when I'm on my mobile ... It's a perfectly adequate choice on my mobile... I read PDFs all the time on my phone. Well, that's interesting. But not all of us either have mobiles that have pdf readers or have a mobile plan that won't have us in the poorhouse if we download a multi-megabyte file on it. Not to mention, some of us will be sitting there staring at a download progress that crawls slowly over hours with files that size on our mobiles. And some of us have just the kind of luck that would see the battery run out just before the download would have finished. :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: 'case' macro problem when clause is a type
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 12:23 AM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:54 PM, Stephen Pardue pardue.step...@gmail.com wrote: (defn panda [x] (case (type x) java.lang.String HELLZ YEAH IT'S A STRING! java.lang.Integer it's an integer..)) Since (type x) returns a Class object, you could do this: user= (defn panda[x] (case (.getName (type x)) java.lang.String HELLZ YEAH IT'S A STRING! java.lang.Integer it's an integer..)) #'user/panda user= (panda 6) it's an integer.. user= (panda apple) HELLZ YEAH IT'S A STRING! user= -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood But of course that will use reflection which probably defeats the purpose of using case which dispatches very quickly. David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
parallel colt vs. colt
Hello everybody, I was under the impression that parallel colt is a parallelized subset of colt libraries. but it seems like colt has less functionality than parallel colt libraries.. Am I missing something? Sunil. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: 'case' macro problem when clause is a type
How about a macro like this? -- (defmacro my-case [e clauses] `(condp = ~e ~...@clauses)) -- (defn panda-3 [x] (my-case (type x) java.lang.String HELLZ YEAH IT'S A STRING! java.lang.Integer it's an integer...)) -- I'll just stick with condp though. Thanks David. On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 12:45 AM, David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 12:23 AM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:54 PM, Stephen Pardue pardue.step...@gmail.com wrote: (defn panda [x] (case (type x) java.lang.String HELLZ YEAH IT'S A STRING! java.lang.Integer it's an integer..)) Since (type x) returns a Class object, you could do this: user= (defn panda[x] (case (.getName (type x)) java.lang.String HELLZ YEAH IT'S A STRING! java.lang.Integer it's an integer..)) #'user/panda user= (panda 6) it's an integer.. user= (panda apple) HELLZ YEAH IT'S A STRING! user= -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood But of course that will use reflection which probably defeats the purpose of using case which dispatches very quickly. David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comclojure%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: parallel colt vs. colt
On 21 Dec 2010, at 06:57, Sunil S Nandihalli wrote: I was under the impression that parallel colt is a parallelized subset of colt libraries. but it seems like colt has less functionality than parallel colt libraries.. Am I missing something? My impression is the same as yours. Parallel Colt is an extension of Colt that adds more than just parallelism. Konrad. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Native Clojure
On 20 Dec 2010, at 21:43, Michael Glaesemann wrote: For me, a native-code implementation of Clojure would be of interest for interfacing with libraries written in C, C++, and Fortran. The same goal could probably be achieved otherwise (compiling Java bytecode to native code, or simply a JVM with a better native interface than JNI), but at the moment I see no satisfying solution. Have you looked at JNA? https://jna.dev.java.net/ Not much myself, but I talked to someone who explored it more in- depth. He found some feature missing that was important for his application, but I don't remember what exactly it was. I'll have to explore myself... On 21 Dec 2010, at 05:42, Sunil S Nandihalli wrote: Have you tried giws (spelt opposite of swig) .. it automatically generates all the necessary jni stuff necessary for any java- class .. It takes an xml file as input and generates any necessary jni-wrappers .. It can only acess the class member- GIWS is new to me, I'll have a look! Konrad. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
