Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
2011/3/24 ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com On Mar 24, 7:26 am, Armando Blancas armando_blan...@yahoo.com wrote: That's quite alright. Nine out of ten people here hate java; Actually, I didn't know that. I imagined that 9 out of 10 people here would be java-ites. It's good to know that I'm in good company. Frankly, I'm not aware of any real poll trying to get this kind of figure out of the community following this ml. It's clear does not have to hate langage A to start loving langage B. That's kind of a surprising reasoning twist to think white/black like this. The world is always bigger than we think it is, and I would not be surprised that a great number of people not being active on this mailing list are both java + clojure + ... polyglots, because they work in/for enterprise and they need to adapt to their environment. Cheers, -- Laurent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Emacs with Lisp and Clojure.
mmwaikar mmwai...@gmail.com writes: But the same enter key works properly when I am using Lisp, so why shouldn't it be the default in Clojure as well? What's considered properly for RET is purely subjective. :-) But I have to admit that I was wrong. When paredit-mode is enabled, RET is indeed bound to `paredit-newline', which does indentation automatically. For me that does the trick for Clojure, Elisp, and CL buffers... Also, after removing clojure-mode, when I try to install swank- clojure, it again installs the clojure-mode, but fails to install itself? Do you get some error messages? Using emacs 24 from bzr, I only added (add-to-list 'package-archives '(technomancy . http://repo.technomancy.us/emacs/;) t) to get the most recent packages from technomancy listed in M-x package-list-packages, and there I installed these ones: clojure-mode 1.8.0 installed Major mode for Clojure code slime 20100404.1 installed Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs slime-repl20100404installed Read-Eval-Print Loop written in Emacs Lisp swank-clojure 1.1.0 installed Slime adapter for clojure Bye, Tassilo -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: gen-class and state...
Guys, Thanks for your replies - I'm glad I posted as this is exactly what I was looking for. I wish I had found Stuart's article when he wrote it. I had an inkling that my gen-class struggles were out of date - now I can go and rework all that code :-) Problem solved. Thanks again, Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: gen-class and state...
Sorry for hijacking but I wouldn't mind some clarification on the subject. Right now I can get java classes and interfaces with defprotocol and defrecord and the world is good. Can somebody please educate me in the uses/needs for :gen-class and friends? Keep in mind that I haven't really done much Java interop so my question may indeed be a silly one. Cheers! U -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: gen-class and state...
Hi, On 24 Mrz., 10:40, Ulises ulises.cerv...@gmail.com wrote: Can somebody please educate me in the uses/needs for :gen-class and friends? You need gen-class when you want (or have to) derive from another class. defrecord/deftype/reify don't allow that, while gen-class/proxy do. Sincerely Meikel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: gen-class and state...
You need gen-class when you want (or have to) derive from another class. defrecord/deftype/reify don't allow that, while gen-class/proxy do. I suppose this is for when you want to add fields to an already existing class? (I'm assuming that adding methods could be done with extend/extend-protocol?) U -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
http://build.clojure.org/releases - no alpha5 alpha6.. ?
is this: http://build.clojure.org/releases/org/clojure/clojure/ no longer the place to point my maven :-( I'd love to give the latest alpha's a try, but the thought of manually d/l-ing them and then installing them into my local repo is just too much !! should I point somewhere else, or will this release dir be updated soon ? thanks Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
Hi, You can write some lines of Clojure code in a file, and then execute it with the command 'clj your file'. I'm sitting on a linux box where the script to start Clojure is called 'clj', but if you don't have such or simply downloaded the zip from clojure.org, you can use this line to execute a script called test.clj: java -cp path/to/clojure.jar clojure.main test.clj Which on my linux system would be java -cp /usr/share/clojure/clojure.jar clojure.main test.clj The '-cp' after java means add this file to the classpath, and basically tells java where to find libraries and classes you use in your code. Don't worry about it if you use a build tool like leiningen (see end of this post). Now for a Clojure script that simply calculates the 5th fibonacci number and prints it: (defn fib [n] (if ( n 2) 1 (+ (fib (- n 2)) (fib (- n 1) (println (fib 5)) You can simply copy that to a file test.clj and use the above command to run it - should produce 8 as output. This procedure should work with every script you throw after clojure. For larger (non-script) projects I would recommend using the 'leiningen' build tool (https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen), the README should explain how to use it. Basically it can handle your project dependencies for you, provide a way to package your application in a JAR file for execution with java, and many other nice features. I hope this helps, /Matthias On Mar 23, 8:50 am, ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote: Short version: How do I just open an editor, type in some Clojure code, save it in a file, and then run it? Long version: Okay, I'm very new to Clojure. But I'm not a Java programmer (don't want to be). I'm not used to all this complexity just to do something simple. What I want to do is the normal programming that I do with every other environment and language I work with, i.e. I edit some source code on screen, save it in a file, and either compile/run, or interpret it or whatever. But I haven't figured out how to do that yet, and don't know if it's possible. I downloaded Netbeans and Enclojure. It runs fine. I can get a REPL, blah blah. But have no idea how to do anything real i.e. execute a program saved in a file. Again, I want to edit some code with the very nice editor, save it, and hit some button that says execute or perhaps compile and execute or perhaps build and execute or whatever. But apparently there is a heck of a lot more to it than that. I understand that you have to build a project or whatever. Fine - I did that. Still, I have no idea which directory out of that huge structure I'm supposed to put code in, I have no idea how to set up all these dependencies or whatever. I did try some random stuff, i.e. saving a file in various directories and hitting build but that didn't work. I also tried editing various files that were already there, hoping one of them was the main file I was supposed to be dumping source code into, but that didn't work either. So I downloaded Clojure Box. It installs and runs fine. Again, I get a REPL no problem. But there's only so much coding I can do in a REPL. Again, I'd like to do more. I spent a long time trying to find some help online (googling, etc), but everything I've found assumes I know too much, i.e. how to set up all these projects and dependencies. Actually, I'm not interested in fooling with all the boilerplate and crap AT ALL. So if I HAVE to do that, I'm outta here. But something tells me I may not have to, i.e. there may be some automated tool somewhere, or some template files I can just use over and over, or some trick to use like just name your program 'main' and stick it in such-and-such directory. Any help? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Java Interop - Generics - Hmmm...
Guys, I have a hybrid Java/Clojure project. The Java side contains a number of interfaces/classes that make use of generics. Implementing the interfaces Clojure-side is no problem - I just forget about type and get on with it :-) I am slowly migrating more and more code into Clojure and there will come a point when I'd like to take some of these interfaces over... So now to my confusion: My understanding is that generics are a compile-time, NOT a run-time abstraction. This implies that metadata about generics would not be present at runtime and therefore [probably] not in bytecode ? So, I would expect to be able to replace my interfaces with defprotocols - however, I would expect this to confuse Java implementations of these interfaces, since they somehow have access to their interfaces generics-oriented metadata... So maybe I have answered my question - I guess that there must actually be some generics metadata present in the bytecode to allow inter-jar generics compilation to work, but then at runtime this would be ignored [probably]. So this leads me to conclude that I would 1. have to port my classes that implement generic interfaces to Clojure before the interfaces themselves. 2. give up the ability to write further generic implementations of these interfaces in Java :-( can anyone who really knows what the situation is confirm my suspicions ? thanks for your time, Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 8:34 AM, ultranewb pineapple.l...@yahoo.com wrote: That's quite alright. Nine out of ten people here hate java; Actually, I didn't know that. I imagined that 9 out of 10 people here would be java-ites. It's good to know that I'm in good company. Clojure won't have existed if the people here were satisfied with Java. Regards, BG -- Baishampayan Ghose b.ghose at gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Mar 24, 10:19 am, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote: Heh, even as a long-time Java developer (since '97), I'm here because I want something _better_ than Java. It's why I learned Groovy in 2008 (sort of Java-lite - fixes most of Java's problems but suffers from performance issues compared to Java), Scala in 2009 (sort of Java++ - fixes most of Java's problems but suffers from a split personality since it's a hybrid OO/FP language and has a frightening type system - for the people I need to work with), and then Clojure in 2010. Since we are mentioning other languages (I'm sure it's a little off- topic, but what the hey), if you really want to fry your brain and blow your mind, check out APL, or its modern successor, J. APL is ancient, but so is LISP, so that shouldn't put off any LISP-ites. I am not exaggerating when I say that for most little problems you want to solve, you can do it in one line. I wrote an electronic real-time trading platform in J. Would have taken God knows how many pages of code in any other language. With J I did it in just a few pages max. One area I'd say Clojure is ahead of something like J would be concurrency. It's always fun to know new languages. Heck, I guess I know over 20 at this juncture. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Extra params for a handler inside Ring's wrap-params
On 03/23/2011 02:32 PM, Thorsten Wilms wrote:
Hi!
Routing, using ring.middleware.params and net.cgrand.moustache:
(def tlog-app-handler
(app [admin ]
{:get (app ...snip...)
:post (app wrap-params [[path not-empty] ] submit-article)}
Thanks to wrap-params, I can destructure request params within
submit-article. However, I also want to have path. Without
wrap-params, it would simply be:
(app [[path not-empty] ] (submit-article path))
(app wrap-params [[path not-empty] ] (partial submit-article path))
results in nth not supported on this type: PersistentHashMap
Should have been:
(app [[path not-empty] ] (wrap-params (partial submit-article path)))
Which works, then.
Thanks to the fine folks in #clojure, I have another solution:
(app [[path not-empty] ] (wrap-params
(fn [req] (submit-article req path
--
Thorsten Wilms
thorwil's design for free software:
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/
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Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
Hi, On 24 Mrz., 13:09, Baishampayan Ghose b.gh...@gmail.com wrote: Clojure won't have existed if the people here were satisfied with Java. I think, there is a difference between hate and dissatisfaction. IMHO the Java bashing is overrated. Coming from a polyglot-but-non- java background, I didn't have much trouble getting things running. Is the CLASSPATH really so much different to the PYTHONPATH, LD_LIBRARY_PATH or even the plain old PATH itself? When you work with the JVM (or the CLR; for that matter) you need some knowledge about it. And then stop fighting the system but adapt to it. Heck, why do I have to refuel my car every other week? I even have to know which type of gasoline or - *gasp* - Diesel to use. No one seriously says such things. Why do we do it with the JVM? That does not mean, that Java and/or the JVM is perfect, but neither is Clojure. Things can - and should - be improved. Disclaimer: I'm not a professional. Sincerely Meikel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
I didn't have much trouble getting things running. Is the CLASSPATH really so much different to the PYTHONPATH, LD_LIBRARY_PATH or even the plain old PATH itself? No, it's not that much different, except python is a bit more smart about how things are setup. For instance, if you startup script.py python will not only search PYTHONPATH, but also search the directory where the python executable lives, as well as the current path. On top of that, python (unlike lein, and I guess java as well) prefers that all modules be installed in the python home directory. So the end effect is I have been able to write python projects for years, and only once have had to set the PYTHONPATH variable. The same goes for LD_LIBRARY_PATH. The only time I've had to set that variable is when I'm doing something funky like writing a plugin. But the issue is, all these IDEs out there don't follow any of these methods. So if you want to launch clojure with penumbra, not only do you have to set the CLASSPATH, but you also have to set the -D variable to point to the native libs. Even when I finally knew how to set all this up, it still took me about 3 hours to get La Clojure to recognize it all. And that was after trying and giving up on Enclojure. And don't even try to compare all this to the CLR...the gac, Visual Studio, and the way the CLR links assemblies means that I've never...ever...had to set a CLR path. And I program C# for a living. Timothy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote: Clojure won't have existed if the people here were satisfied with Java. I think, there is a difference between hate and dissatisfaction. I agree. That's precisely why I used the word satisfied and not any variation of love/hate. Regards, BG -- Baishampayan Ghose b.ghose at gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Java Interop - Generics - Hmmm...
For interop I write interfaces in Java. This way I can provide type- specific signatures, constants, javadocs and generics; then implement them all in Clojure. I also write exception classes in Java for use in Clojure since I find it simpler and cleaner than gen-class. You don't have to give up anyting for the sake of interop, but perhaps you won't write 100% Clojure. On Mar 24, 4:58 am, Jules jules.gosn...@gmail.com wrote: Guys, I have a hybrid Java/Clojure project. The Java side contains a number of interfaces/classes that make use of generics. Implementing the interfaces Clojure-side is no problem - I just forget about type and get on with it :-) I am slowly migrating more and more code into Clojure and there will come a point when I'd like to take some of these interfaces over... So now to my confusion: My understanding is that generics are a compile-time, NOT a run-time abstraction. This implies that metadata about generics would not be present at runtime and therefore [probably] not in bytecode ? So, I would expect to be able to replace my interfaces with defprotocols - however, I would expect this to confuse Java implementations of these interfaces, since they somehow have access to their interfaces generics-oriented metadata... So maybe I have answered my question - I guess that there must actually be some generics metadata present in the bytecode to allow inter-jar generics compilation to work, but then at runtime this would be ignored [probably]. So this leads me to conclude that I would 1. have to port my classes that implement generic interfaces to Clojure before the interfaces themselves. 2. give up the ability to write further generic implementations of these interfaces in Java :-( can anyone who really knows what the situation is confirm my suspicions ? thanks for your time, Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: http://build.clojure.org/releases - no alpha5 alpha6.. ?
I've been using a project.clj file like this in Leiningen to get 1.3 alpha1 through alpha6: (defproject clj-1.3.0-alpha5 1.0.0-SNAPSHOT :description FIXME: write :dependencies [[org.clojure/clojure 1.3.0-alpha5]]) Leiningen uses Maven under the hood, so if you have any Maven pom.xml file that works for any release of 1.3.0-alpha*, just change the * and try again. If not, here is the dependencies section of the XML file generated with lein pom in my little Leiningen project: dependencies dependency groupIdorg.clojure/groupId artifactIdclojure/artifactId version1.3.0-alpha5/version /dependency /dependencies Andy On Mar 24, 2011, at 3:53 AM, Jules wrote: is this: http://build.clojure.org/releases/org/clojure/clojure/ no longer the place to point my maven :-( I'd love to give the latest alpha's a try, but the thought of manually d/l-ing them and then installing them into my local repo is just too much !! should I point somewhere else, or will this release dir be updated soon ? thanks Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Java Interop - Generics - Hmmm...
Thanks for the reply Armando, This is pretty much where i was until I was asked to write a dot.net client library for my server. I then looked at all my Java code and figured I could write a second copy in C# and then keep the two in sync for ever after, or port it all to Clojure and let ClojureCLR do the work... I guess I can't have my cake and eat it. In a perfect world, I would be able to sprinkle some extra metadata around my defprotocol to give Java classes implementing it whatever generics goodness they require - but I can understand this being low on Clojure's TODO list :-) Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
RabbitMQ
What is the best Clojure library to work with RabbitMQ? Best regards Max -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Implicit unpacking of a map
Hi! The following simplified code works: (defn save-article [path form-params timestamp] (ds/save! (Article. path (form-params title) (form-params body) timestamp But I would like to not handle the content of form-params explicitly. My naive attempt that shows that I still have troubles with the evaluation model: (ds/save! (flatten `(Article. path ~(vals form-params) timestamp))) Fails with: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No implementation of method: :get-entity-object of protocol: #'appengine-magic.services.datastore/EntityProtocol found for class: clojure.lang.Symbol I take that I created a list that looks like the function call that I need, but that is not evaluated as such. Throwing in eval doesn't help. Can you shed some light on this? How can I accomplish not having to make the content of form-params explicitly? (Not to save on typing, more for my understanding.) -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Java Interop - Generics - Hmmm...
I'm not an expert on this, but I believe that whenever you have generics in Java, they have no effect on the bytecode, e.g. a HashMapString,String has the same type in the bytecode as any other HashMap. The String,String part is only used in some checks made by the Java compiler when compiling Java source code, and in helping avoid some casting. As evidence I have used reflection to examine the fields and method signatures of some Java classes that have generics, and there was nothing in the types except that which was specified outside the ... . Andy On Mar 24, 2011, at 8:04 AM, Jules wrote: Thanks for the reply Armando, This is pretty much where i was until I was asked to write a dot.net client library for my server. I then looked at all my Java code and figured I could write a second copy in C# and then keep the two in sync for ever after, or port it all to Clojure and let ClojureCLR do the work... I guess I can't have my cake and eat it. In a perfect world, I would be able to sprinkle some extra metadata around my defprotocol to give Java classes implementing it whatever generics goodness they require - but I can understand this being low on Clojure's TODO list :-) Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: http://build.clojure.org/releases - no alpha5 alpha6.. ?
Aha ! OK - so maven is pulling alpha5/6 in from somewhere, but not from the repo that I expected - and unfortunately, I am not finding clojure.contrib.logging for these releases - maybe contrib is not being released to the same repo ? or maybe it has changed its name ? I'll have to investigate. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: RabbitMQ
I just wrapped their java client library: http://www.rabbitmq.com/java-client.html http://www.rabbitmq.com/java-client.html On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Max Weber weber.maximil...@googlemail.com wrote: What is the best Clojure library to work with RabbitMQ? Best regards Max -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: http://build.clojure.org/releases - no alpha5 alpha6.. ?
Jules, All new Clojure artifacts are being released to maven central now, which is always checked by maven (and therefore lein): http://mavencentral.sonatype.com/#search|ga|1|org.clojure I think all existing prior releases of Clojure and clojure-contrib are there now as well. Unless you're locked onto an old SNAPSHOT build (which can disappear at any time, since they're SNAPSHOTs), there's no longer any reason to have build.clojure.org set up as a repo in your pom.xml/project.clj. - Chas On Mar 24, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Jules wrote: Aha ! OK - so maven is pulling alpha5/6 in from somewhere, but not from the repo that I expected - and unfortunately, I am not finding clojure.contrib.logging for these releases - maybe contrib is not being released to the same repo ? or maybe it has changed its name ? I'll have to investigate. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Implicit unpacking of a map
Thorsten Wilms t...@freenet.de writes:
Hi Thorsten,
The following simplified code works:
(defn save-article
[path form-params timestamp]
(ds/save! (Article. path (form-params title) (form-params body)
timestamp
But I would like to not handle the content of form-params explicitly.
Probably, you want to use destructuring.
--8---cut here---start-8---
(defn save-article
[path {t title, b body rest :as m} timestamp]
(println path: path
, title: t
, body: b
, timestamp: timestamp
, m: m))
--8---cut here---end---8---
Bye,
Tassilo
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Re: Implicit unpacking of a map
Hi,
On 24 Mrz., 16:16, Thorsten Wilms t...@freenet.de wrote:
(defn save-article
[path form-params timestamp]
(ds/save! (Article. path (form-params title) (form-params body)
timestamp
The problem is the constructor call. With plain old clojure
functions you could use apply, but Java method and constructor
calls must be hard-wired in the bytecode (and hence at
compilation time) (if I understood this correctly).
So there will be now way around explicitly specifying the map
keys. Although you can relieve the pain a little with
destructuring as Tassilo already showed. It can be shorted a
bit using :strs.
(defn save-article
[path {:strs [title body]} timestamp]
(ds/save! (Article. path title body timestamp)))
Sincerely
Meikel
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Re: Java Interop - Generics - Hmmm...
On Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:29:56 PM UTC+1, Jules wrote: Thanks Andy, I agree that there is no practical remnant of generics in the runtime as I have poked around with reflection as well, but I think there might be in the bytecode, otherwise if I compiled a generic interface, stuck it into a jar and gave it to you to link against, the compiler would know nothing about the genericness of my interface ? Surely this can't be right as generics DO exist at compile time, so I think that there is compile-time generics info stashed somewhere in the bytecode that is not loaded at runtime. Reflection is aware of generic type variables: http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/reflect/GenericDeclaration.html What is lost at runtime is information about *instantiation* of those variables: e.g. you can't distinguish a method returning ListString from one returning ListInteger. (Actually, not even all instantiations of generic type variables are lost at runtime, see http://gafter.blogspot.com/2006/12/super-type-tokens.html for an example). hth, Alessio -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Java Interop - Generics - Hmmm...
This is only half-true. The data exists somewhere, as Jules says, so that javac can enforce proper use of generics when calling compiled library code. Eg, rt.jar contains only classes, yet j.u.List still manages to have generics, which are treated correctly by the compiler. The *use* of generic code is compiled into just a bunch of Objects and casting, but the .class file does contain some annotations to declare the generics. It's just rather hard to find. On Mar 24, 8:19 am, Andy Fingerhut andy.finger...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not an expert on this, but I believe that whenever you have generics in Java, they have no effect on the bytecode, e.g. a HashMapString,String has the same type in the bytecode as any other HashMap. The String,String part is only used in some checks made by the Java compiler when compiling Java source code, and in helping avoid some casting. As evidence I have used reflection to examine the fields and method signatures of some Java classes that have generics, and there was nothing in the types except that which was specified outside the ... . Andy On Mar 24, 2011, at 8:04 AM, Jules wrote: Thanks for the reply Armando, This is pretty much where i was until I was asked to write a dot.net client library for my server. I then looked at all my Java code and figured I could write a second copy in C# and then keep the two in sync for ever after, or port it all to Clojure and let ClojureCLR do the work... I guess I can't have my cake and eat it. In a perfect world, I would be able to sprinkle some extra metadata around my defprotocol to give Java classes implementing it whatever generics goodness they require - but I can understand this being low on Clojure's TODO list :-) Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Java Interop - Generics - Hmmm...
Thanks Andy, I agree that there is no practical remnant of generics in the runtime as I have poked around with reflection as well, but I think there might be in the bytecode, otherwise if I compiled a generic interface, stuck it into a jar and gave it to you to link against, the compiler would know nothing about the genericness of my interface ? Surely this can't be right as generics DO exist at compile time, so I think that there is compile-time generics info stashed somewhere in the bytecode that is not loaded at runtime. What do you reckon ? I don't see how else it could work - but this is all supposition - I'd be interested in hearing from someone in the know. Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: http://build.clojure.org/releases - no alpha5 alpha6.. ?
Aha! Thanks. Looking at the link you have posted the latest version of Clojure is alpha6, but contrib is reporting 1.2 - that must be the root of my problem. i have been using http://build.clojure.org/releases/org/clojure/clojure/because up until alpha4 it was serving both in sync. Do you know if there are plans to ship contrib 1.3alphas from maven central as well ? thanks Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Java Interop - Generics - Hmmm...
On Mar 24, 9:47 am, Alessio Stalla alessiosta...@gmail.com wrote: Reflection is aware of generic type variables:http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/reflect/Generi... What is lost at runtime is information about *instantiation* of those variables: e.g. you can't distinguish a method returning ListString from one returning ListInteger. I think you mean, you can't tell a ListString from a ListInteger once it's been returned. As you demonstrated, telling which kind of list a particular method will return can be done via reflection. (Actually, not even all instantiations of generic type variables are lost at runtime, seehttp://gafter.blogspot.com/2006/12/super-type-tokens.htmlfor an example). That's really nifty. Thanks for the link. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: gen-class and state...
Stuart, I still think in a very OO way - which is probably why I am having difficulty with this :-) A common OO pattern is to encapsulate complex resource acquisition/release within a class. I can do this with gen-class - since I control ctor args and the instances initial state, as well as having post-init for when some part of my initialisation requires a reference to itself. I'm guessing that I can't do this with deftype/reify - so this might be another reason to fall back on gen-class ? [although I could leave space for an atom in my state and provide ctor/dtor fns which read/wrote this atom... - so I suppose this would be one way around the problem,,,] Would you mind clarifying ? Thanks Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: http://build.clojure.org/releases - no alpha5 alpha6.. ?
There was a recent discussion on clojure-dev about this question. I don't understand the details myself, so I'll point you at the thread. The relevant part starts about 2/3 of the way through this 51-message thread, around March 19, between Sean Corfield and Stuart Sierra (sorry, I don't know if there is a way to provide a URL that starts at a specific message within a long thread): http://groups.google.com/group/clojure-dev/browse_thread/thread/f1b1fbfd2a6c1a9f Then a new thread was created specifically on this topic here: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure-dev/browse_thread/thread/6791b2971fc8739f Andy On Mar 24, 2011, at 9:34 AM, Jules wrote: Aha! Thanks. Looking at the link you have posted the latest version of Clojure is alpha6, but contrib is reporting 1.2 - that must be the root of my problem. i have been using http://build.clojure.org/releases/org/clojure/clojure/ because up until alpha4 it was serving both in sync. Do you know if there are plans to ship contrib 1.3alphas from maven central as well ? thanks Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Java Interop - Generics - Hmmm...
cool :-) I had a feeling that there was some vestige of generics left at runtime - now I know exactly what it is. thanks guys, Jules -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Emacs with Lisp and Clojure.
swank-clojure is deprecated, don't use it. Instead start swank from leiningen. I found these instructions how to install clojure support in emacs http://riddell.us/ClojureSwankLeiningenWithEmacsOnLinux.html No need to use elpa with broken packages or starter-kit. Maris On Mar 24, 8:14 am, Tassilo Horn tass...@member.fsf.org wrote: mmwaikar mmwai...@gmail.com writes: But the same enter key works properly when I am using Lisp, so why shouldn't it be the default in Clojure as well? What's considered properly for RET is purely subjective. :-) But I have to admit that I was wrong. When paredit-mode is enabled, RET is indeed bound to `paredit-newline', which does indentation automatically. For me that does the trick for Clojure, Elisp, and CL buffers... Also, after removing clojure-mode, when I try to install swank- clojure, it again installs the clojure-mode, but fails to install itself? Do you get some error messages? Using emacs 24 from bzr, I only added (add-to-list 'package-archives '(technomancy . http://repo.technomancy.us/emacs/;) t) to get the most recent packages from technomancy listed in M-x package-list-packages, and there I installed these ones: clojure-mode 1.8.0 installed Major mode for Clojure code slime 20100404.1 installed Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs slime-repl 20100404 installed Read-Eval-Print Loop written in Emacs Lisp swank-clojure 1.1.0 installed Slime adapter for clojure Bye, Tassilo -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: RabbitMQ
According to http://www.clojure-toolbox.com/ https://github.com/mefesto/wabbitmq But I'm pretty new to clojure and don't know if it is good. On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Mark Rathwell mark.rathw...@gmail.com wrote: I just wrapped their java client library: http://www.rabbitmq.com/java-client.html On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Max Weber weber.maximil...@googlemail.com wrote: What is the best Clojure library to work with RabbitMQ? Best regards Max -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: RabbitMQ
We did the same On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Mark Rathwell mark.rathw...@gmail.com wrote: I just wrapped their java client library: http://www.rabbitmq.com/java-client.html On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Max Weber weber.maximil...@googlemail.com wrote: What is the best Clojure library to work with RabbitMQ? Best regards Max -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Java Interop - Generics - Hmmm...
On 24 Mar, 17:54, Alan a...@malloys.org wrote: On Mar 24, 9:47 am, Alessio Stalla alessiosta...@gmail.com wrote: Reflection is aware of generic type variables:http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/reflect/Generi... What is lost at runtime is information about *instantiation* of those variables: e.g. you can't distinguish a method returning ListString from one returning ListInteger. I think you mean, you can't tell a ListString from a ListInteger once it's been returned. As you demonstrated, telling which kind of list a particular method will return can be done via reflection. Only if the method is defined in a class that instantiates a type variable, e.g. String get(int) in class MyList implements ListString, where the superclass is ListT and defines T get(int). But if you have class FooT with a method T bar(), you can't tell via reflection the distinction between new FooString().bar() and new FooInteger().bar() - they're the same method of the same class at runtime. Similarly if you have a method T ListT foo(...) you can't know about the different instantiations of T for calls to foo(). (Actually, not even all instantiations of generic type variables are lost at runtime, seehttp://gafter.blogspot.com/2006/12/super-type-tokens.htmlforan example). That's really nifty. Thanks for the link. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Implicit unpacking of a map
On 03/24/2011 05:40 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer wrote:
The problem is the constructor call. With plain old clojure
functions you could use apply, but Java method and constructor
calls must be hard-wired in the bytecode (and hence at
compilation time) (if I understood this correctly).
Guess that's why a macro, which I tried out of sheer curiosity, doesn't
work, either.
So there will be now way around explicitly specifying the map
keys. Although you can relieve the pain a little with
destructuring as Tassilo already showed. It can be shorted a
bit using :strs.
(defn save-article
[path {:strs [title body]} timestamp]
(ds/save! (Article. path title body timestamp)))
I had been using destructuring, just not in the example, where I had to
have a whole form-params. :strs makes that quite a bit nicer, thanks!
Looking for a bit more info, I found:
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/a9504c4c9b1a4d9b
explaining :strs, :keys and :syms.
--
Thorsten Wilms
thorwil's design for free software:
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/
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Re: Implicit unpacking of a map
A macro should work fine if you use ~@ instead of just ~. (defmacro save-article [path form-params timestamp] `(ds/save! (Article. ~path ~@(vals form-params) ~timestamp))) On Mar 24, 1:28 pm, Thorsten Wilms t...@freenet.de wrote: On 03/24/2011 05:40 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer wrote: The problem is the constructor call. With plain old clojure functions you could use apply, but Java method and constructor calls must be hard-wired in the bytecode (and hence at compilation time) (if I understood this correctly). Guess that's why a macro, which I tried out of sheer curiosity, doesn't work, either. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: http://build.clojure.org/releases - no alpha5 alpha6.. ?
Short summary: Clojure 1.3.0-alpha5 and -alpha6 have been released to Maven Central, which is the default repo for all Maven-based tools, including Leiningen. New clojure-contrib libraries are also being released to Maven Central. See http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Contrib+Projects for a list. Old clojure-contrib has not had a release since 1.3.0-alpha4. New releases, to anywhere, are a low priority. -alpha4 is source-compatible with Clojure 1.3.0-alpha6. -Stuart Sierra clojure.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: gen-class and state...
A typical pattern for resource management is a function or macro like `with-open-file`. -S -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Implicit unpacking of a map
Hi, Am 24.03.2011 um 21:38 schrieb Alan: A macro should work fine if you use ~@ instead of just ~. (defmacro save-article [path form-params timestamp] `(ds/save! (Article. ~path ~@(vals form-params) ~timestamp))) A macro works only with literal maps. Sincerely Meikel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Implicit unpacking of a map
I find it easier to write web apps if my users provide me with their inputs at compile time anyway. On Mar 24, 1:45 pm, Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote: Hi, Am 24.03.2011 um 21:38 schrieb Alan: A macro should work fine if you use ~@ instead of just ~. (defmacro save-article [path form-params timestamp] `(ds/save! (Article. ~path ~@(vals form-params) ~timestamp))) A macro works only with literal maps. Sincerely Meikel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Implicit unpacking of a map
On 03/24/2011 09:38 PM, Alan wrote: A macro should work fine if you use ~@ instead of just ~. (defmacro save-article [path form-params timestamp] `(ds/save! (Article. ~path ~@(vals form-params) ~timestamp))) Thanks for the suggestion, but: Unknown location: error: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol (I doubt I managed to introduce a mistake, as it looks alright with macroexpand.) -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: http://build.clojure.org/releases - no alpha5 alpha6.. ?
On 03/24/2011 11:13 AM, Jules wrote: Aha ! OK - so maven is pulling alpha5/6 in from somewhere, but not from the repo that I expected - and unfortunately, I am not finding clojure.contrib.logging for these releases - maybe contrib is not being released to the same repo ? or maybe it has changed its name ? I'll have to investigate. Logging has been pulled into the new contrib style under the project tools.logging. Take a look at the following leiningen example: (defproject example 1.0.0-SNAPSHOT :description FIXME: write :dependencies [[org.clojure/clojure 1.3.0-alpha6] [org.clojure/tools.logging 0.1.2]]) This is the same library that was in contrib, and it will be the place for further development. -- Cheers, Aaron Bedra -- Clojure/core http://clojure.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Jesus, how the heck to do anything?
On Mar 25, 8:58 am, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote: My final year project at university was to write an APL interpreter (in Pascal, back in '83). APL is a fun language. I haven't looked at J (yet). Awesome! J is APL, but totally modernized. Everything you would expect in a functional language (currying, first class functions, anonymous functions, composition, etc) and even more things, like hooks, trains, forks, not needing to refer to variables explicitly, etc. Sort of scary, when you think of what you could do with ancient APL. One other difference with APL is that they removed the old complaint of special characters and keyboards by changing it to pure standard ascii characters. Thing is, I don't particularly like this aspect. I much prefer old APL symbols to the new string of plain ascii characters which I find ugly. The irony in all of this is that Iverson was before his time in creating a language with special symbols - some people didn't get it, you needed special equipment and character sets and fonts, etc. So they removed this old complaint with J... just with the advent of unicode, which actually allows for such things quite easily. In other words, the language was ahead of its time, and devolved a step backwards to address complaints just as the times caught up, heh. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
