Stus-List Fwd: Question: 37+ Recessed cabin plate
Joanne, Actually, that's the only type of plate I've ever seen except for the ones on mine. Mine are stanless steel. I like them. I don't know where they were made. I can ask the previous owner to see if he had them done. I placed a copy of this photo online so I'll forword a link to the list: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cCPzfDohqvs/T00ZPe6jxmI/Bsg/frTWTS9uBp0/s1597/DSC08375.JPG Ken H. On 11 April 2013 22:24, Us djmo...@bellsouth.net wrote: Ok all, I have a question that has been driving me crazy... Does anyone have a resource for the recessed plate on the port and starboard cabin that has the CC star logo with the 37+??? Ours is an obvious replacement as it is made of smoke plexiglass with the emblems just glued on. I know this can't be original and I want to replace it with something that Represents the quality of the boat. I've spoken to some woodworkers and machinists and a one piece plate will not be easy (reverse template needed). Any advice or resources would be GREATLY appreciated! Joanne Obsession CC 37/40+ ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race video
After an unintended round-up by an inattentive mainsheet handler (no consequences but the committee boat was 20 boat-lengths away...gives one pause) I give the mainsheet to the most experienced crew on board during the start and the jib sheet tailor to the second most experienced. They need to watch your every move and listen to every word you say. When close maneuvering I narrate what I am doing so those two folks are working in concert with the helm. Keeps us out of trouble. David F. Risch 1981 40 (401) 419-4650 (cell) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 03:04:51 + From: cscheaf...@comcast.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Blue failed to turn upwind. The boom was actually leeward of center, and a tighter main should help a balanced boat turn upwind. I saw the wheel turn without the boat turning, like the rudder lost bite. Fisheye lens distort and maybe the stern did move enough the impact foraward knocked the tactician off his feet and threw him into harms way for when the other boat's stern hit his legs? Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Atlantic City, NJ From: Dennis C. capt...@yahoo.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:01:40 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video I get a bit of work fixing race boats. Tomorrow I'm scheduled to shoot some gelcoat on a Hobie 33 that T-boned another in the 33 Nationals. One of the most common contributory reasons why these collisions occur is lack of anticipation and not being able to release the main sheet. The last 2 repairs I've done were due on part to a fully loaded main overpowering the steering. Watch the video again. Although Blue did turn up, the turn may have been hampered by a tight main. I didn't see the main get released. My point is this - anticipate the need to turn up or duck and make sure a crewman is assigned and is capable of releasing the main. Dennis C.Touché 35-1 #84Mandeville, LA Sent from my iPhone On Apr 11, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Greg Arnold soa...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/11/2013 5:54 PM, Chuck S wrote: Racing Rules Of Sailing 2009 - 2012 from USSailing (newer version just came out) Rule 11, Boats on same tack and overlapped; a windward boat shall keep clear of a leeward boat Rule 12, Boats on same tack not overlapped: a boat clear astern shall keep clear of a boat clear ahead. (Both boats were on starboard tack, Blue overtaking and passing Camelot. Camelot hardened up but did not actually luff, so Blue should have kept clear.) Rule 14, A boat should avoid contact with another boat if reasonably possible. However, a right-of-way boat. . . need not act to avoid contact until it is clear that the other boat is not keeping clear or giving room. . . (Camelot was in her rights to turn upwind but should have taken action to avoid contact when it was obvious Blue could not.) Couldn't Blue have turned to the right? Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Atlantic City, NJ From: Bob Moriarty bobmo...@gmail.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 8:33:09 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Could someone post a Reader's Digest version of the racing rules that were in play? Bob M Ox 33-1 Jax, FL On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:09 PM, Len Mitchell lmitch...@barrie.ca wrote: Did anyone see the Blue Video from the Banderas Bay race/crash last month? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8s2cCVEJh4feature=player_embedded I would love to hear what a hard core race skipper thinks with 20/20 hindsight. Luff and dive? Blue was 5-10 seconds early. This is better than bottom paint and barnacles we still have some snow to melt! Len Mitchell Crazy Legs Midland On. CC 37+ ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Pinless moisture meter from Canadian tire
Bill That one is not pinless. I also have a $12 moisture meter from Princess Auto that has pins. The downside of those is that the pins do not contact the balsa that is inside the fibreglass sandwich. Pinless moisture meters tend to cost much more Mike From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 6:39 PM To: Dennis C.; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Pinless moisture meter from Canadian tire Probably about the same accuracy as this one for $13.00: http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-mini-moisture-meter-67143.html http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-mini-moisture-meter-67143.html Bill Bina On 4/11/2013 5:22 PM, Dennis C. wrote: Thanks, Mike Now for us in the lower 48, anybody want to go buy one of these and tell us how it works? :) http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-Pinless-Moisture-Meter-E49MM01/2020485 66#BVRRWidgetID http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-Pinless-Moisture-Meter-E49MM01/2020485 66#BVRRWidgetID Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Pinless moisture meter from Canadian tire
Fred The shape of the actual unit is marginally different but that is about it. I checked the instructions from the Mastercraft one against those of the Ryobi unit and they are word for word identical in specs and operating instructions. These do in fact appear to be the same unit. the Ryobi operating instructions/specs can be found here http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/ca/ca3e03a3-ab7b-432d-85f2-fa 16cf56655d.pdf There is not any identifying markings on the unit itself, the packaging or the instruction sheet to indicate who in fact makes this. It is imported by Mastercraft from China Mike From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick G Street Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 7:18 PM To: Dennis C.; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Pinless moisture meter from Canadian tire The placement of the controls and display on the Ryobi looks suspiciously like the Mastercraft. I might pick one up. Unfortunately, the store closest to me is out of stock. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Apr 11, 2013, at 4:22 PM, Dennis C. capt...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks, Mike Now for us in the lower 48, anybody want to go buy one of these and tell us how it works? :) http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-Pinless-Moisture-Meter-E49MM01/2020485 66#BVRRWidgetID ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Pinless moisture meter from Canadian tire
If anyone in the Toronto area wants to compare against the CT33 I'm game. I'de be curious to see how the mastercraft/ryobi performs. For a quarter the cost if the performance is the same we could save a lot of people some money. Steve CC 32 Toronto On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Hoyt, Mike mike.h...@impgroup.com wrote: ** Fred The shape of the actual unit is marginally different but that is about it. I checked the instructions from the Mastercraft one against those of the Ryobi unit and they are word for word identical in specs and operating instructions. These do in fact appear to be the same unit. the Ryobi operating instructions/specs can be found here http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/ca/ca3e03a3-ab7b-432d-85f2-fa16cf56655d.pdf There is not any identifying markings on the unit itself, the packaging or the instruction sheet to indicate who in fact makes this. It is imported by Mastercraft from China Mike -- *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Frederick G Street *Sent:* Thursday, April 11, 2013 7:18 PM *To:* Dennis C.; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Pinless moisture meter from Canadian tire The placement of the controls and display on the Ryobi looks suspiciously like the Mastercraft. I might pick one up. Unfortunately, the store closest to me is out of stock. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Apr 11, 2013, at 4:22 PM, Dennis C. capt...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks, Mike Now for us in the lower 48, anybody want to go buy one of these and tell us how it works? :) http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-Pinless-Moisture-Meter-E49MM01/202048566#BVRRWidgetID ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race video
Good analysis from all IMHO. Several other points might be made: 1. Blue was coming down the line, mostly parallel to it, on a beam or close reach at high speed--barging. While not against the rules, it is a risky maneuver in any fleet and the barger has very few 'rights' in any close encounter and is often moving too fast too late to change course in a seaman-like manner. 2. The main was apparently never released and in the breeze, it likely was controlling the boat direction, mostly independent of the rudder. I came very close to T-boning the RC boat in a similar situation a few years ago when the main sheet/traveler jammed and my main trimmer only got it freed with about a boat-length to spare. If we hadn't got it free, my 13,500 lb Water Phantom would have gone at least half way into the starboard side of the 41 ft. CS committee boat! That was the last time, for me, of coming down the line at speed. I have also been t-boned by an excellent sailor on a Thompson 30 when their his crew were all on the rail and the helms person could not release the main sheet. His bowsprit plowed into my stern quarter for about a 4 high x 12 inch long hole. His rudder was over-whelmed by the main. 3. In fleets of mixed boats and skipper skill levels, I think most experienced crew/skippers will gladly give up a few seconds at the start to avoid situations like this. I know I do. Charlie Nelson Water Phantom CC 36XL/kcb cenel...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Chuck S cscheaf...@comcast.net To: cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Thu, Apr 11, 2013 10:58 pm Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Good calls Rick, I watched that video three times and the only voice I hear is the tactician who talks fairly calmly and steadily. He several times tells the helm to come up or turn up. She doesn't seem to know what up is, turns down at first, (maybe used to a tiller?) and then corrects too late, and the boat doesn't respond.The whole crew looked rather distracted and inexperienced. No one is looking for traffic. That's everyone's job. The Iphone probably has the GPS ap running that shows the start line, speed, VMG, etc. He sees the other boat the whole time. Camelot is to starboard and well ahead when the video starts. She crosses the bow of Blue, and gets leebowed by another boat nearer the line, comes over and instigates the manuever that results in collision. Awful. I blame Blue's helmsman for not keeping tabs on competition, and for not turning up in time when room was available. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Atlantic City, NJ From: Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:18:09 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Actually, if you look at the first minute or so of the video, it appears that Camelot was being driven up by another boat while jockeying for position near the line. In any event, Camelot had right of way. As I watched, I was impressed by how closely the tactician was watching his little orange Iphone – or whatever it was. He should have had his head out of the boat during a start sequence – particularly when they were trying to snake the boat past the committee boat end of the fleet at speed. I know he is probably watching the clock – but when they got to the point that they had no room to luff up and kill time without hitting the committee boat it was time to pay attention to the traffic and not the clock . As Blue approaches Camelot, you can hear someone telling the helmsman to “come up”. Even while he is being told to come up, you can see him playing with the wheel and actually turning down until he is only a foot or so away from Camelot. Even at that point, I suspect that a collision was avoidable. But the helmsman on Camelot seems to have steered away to port quickly – which just swung his stern to starboard and caused the aft half of the boats to collide. So Blue violated rules 12 and then 11, and it is easily arguable that she also violated rule 14, You could argue that Camelot violated Rule 16.1 “When a right of way boat changes course, she shall give the other boat room to keep clear.” (Several years ago I was chairman of a Protest Committee who’s ruling after a collision/protest just like this one was overturned by US Sailing because of Rule 16.1) As far as who pays for the damage and injuries, the insurance companies will probably end up splitting the expense. Blue clearly violated ColRegs rule 13A (I don’t suppose you can cite the tactician for ignoring rule 7, but that is probably also a factor). But Camelot violated ColRegs rule 2. So there is shared liability and the insurance companies get to duke it out. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 8:55 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Racing Rules Of Sailing 2009 - 2012 from USSailing (newer
Re: Stus-List Pinless moisture meter from Canadian tire
Let the games begin.I want to know which one is really the best buy for the $ too. It would be nice to have that data in the next few weeks or so. How will you know what the real answer is? Are you planning to dissect for chemical analysis, you don't need standard samples for that, just heat and a weigh scale, but you might leave some holes behind, so do his boat if you can arrange that. lol Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stevan Plavsa Sent: April 12, 2013 10:02 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Pinless moisture meter from Canadian tire If anyone in the Toronto area wants to compare against the CT33 I'm game. I'de be curious to see how the mastercraft/ryobi performs. For a quarter the cost if the performance is the same we could save a lot of people some money. Steve CC 32 Toronto On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Hoyt, Mike mike.h...@impgroup.com wrote: Fred The shape of the actual unit is marginally different but that is about it. I checked the instructions from the Mastercraft one against those of the Ryobi unit and they are word for word identical in specs and operating instructions. These do in fact appear to be the same unit. the Ryobi operating instructions/specs can be found here http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/ca/ca3e03a3-ab7b-432d-85f2-fa16cf 56655d.pdf There is not any identifying markings on the unit itself, the packaging or the instruction sheet to indicate who in fact makes this. It is imported by Mastercraft from China Mike _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick G Street Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 7:18 PM To: Dennis C.; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Pinless moisture meter from Canadian tire The placement of the controls and display on the Ryobi looks suspiciously like the Mastercraft. I might pick one up. Unfortunately, the store closest to me is out of stock. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Apr 11, 2013, at 4:22 PM, Dennis C. capt...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks, Mike Now for us in the lower 48, anybody want to go buy one of these and tell us how it works? :) http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-Pinless-Moisture-Meter-E49MM01/202048566#B VRRWidgetID ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5740 - Release Date: 04/12/13 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Stus-List Adhesive
When I rebuilt the access panels I used a 3m spray adhesive to glue the vinyl to the wood. It is already coming unglued. Any recommendation on which adhesive to use? Joel Aronson ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Adhesive
Contact cement is better as it is waterproof. Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 10:48, Joel Aronson joel.aron...@gmail.com wrote: When I rebuilt the access panels I used a 3m spray adhesive to glue the vinyl to the wood. It is already coming unglued. Any recommendation on which adhesive to use? Joel Aronson ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Adhesive
The access panels (to cabin top winches) on the CC 33mkii are vinyl on plywood ... I used contact cement, clamped boards over the edges till dry back in 2005 ... still good ! As a side bar I did it in the winter.. so I used a heat gun to make the vinyl a little more pliable .. maybe that helped adhesion T im Toronto -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 9:48 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Adhesive When I rebuilt the access panels I used a 3m spray adhesive to glue the vinyl to the wood. It is already coming unglued. Any recommendation on which adhesive to use? Joel Aronson ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com This e-mail (and attachment(s)) is confidential, proprietary, may be subject to copyright and legal privilege and no related rights are waived. If you are not the intended recipient or its agent, any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or any of its content is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. All messages may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations and our policies to protect our business. E-mails are not secure and you are deemed to have accepted any risk if you communicate with us by e-mail. If received in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail (and any attachments) from any computer or any storage medium without printing a copy. Ce courriel (ainsi que ses pièces jointes) est confidentiel, exclusif, et peut faire l’objet de droit d’auteur et de privilège juridique; aucun droit connexe n’est exclu. Si vous n’êtes pas le destinataire visé ou son représentant, toute étude, diffusion, transmission ou copie de ce courriel en tout ou en partie, est strictement interdite et peut être illégale. Tous les messages peuvent être surveillés, selon les lois et règlements applicables et les politiques de protection de notre entreprise. Les courriels ne sont pas sécurisés et vous êtes réputés avoir accepté tous les risques qui y sont liés si vous choisissez de communiquer avec nous par ce moyen. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser immédiatement et supprimer ce courriel (ainsi que toutes ses pièces jointes) de tout ordinateur ou support de données sans en imprimer une copie. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Adhesive
Jinx ! This e-mail (and attachment(s)) is confidential, proprietary, may be subject to copyright and legal privilege and no related rights are waived. If you are not the intended recipient or its agent, any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or any of its content is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. All messages may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations and our policies to protect our business. E-mails are not secure and you are deemed to have accepted any risk if you communicate with us by e-mail. If received in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail (and any attachments) from any computer or any storage medium without printing a copy. Ce courriel (ainsi que ses pièces jointes) est confidentiel, exclusif, et peut faire l’objet de droit d’auteur et de privilège juridique; aucun droit connexe n’est exclu. Si vous n’êtes pas le destinataire visé ou son représentant, toute étude, diffusion, transmission ou copie de ce courriel en tout ou en partie, est strictement interdite et peut être illégale. Tous les messages peuvent être surveillés, selon les lois et règlements applicables et les politiques de protection de notre entreprise. Les courriels ne sont pas sécurisés et vous êtes réputés avoir accepté tous les risques qui y sont liés si vous choisissez de communiquer avec nous par ce moyen. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser immédiatement et supprimer ce courriel (ainsi que toutes ses pièces jointes) de tout ordinateur ou support de données sans en imprimer une copie. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Adhesive
3m 5200...hard to get off...maybe try 4200 first, fast cure...clean up with paint thinners works Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Knowles Rich Sent: April 12, 2013 10:56 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Adhesive Contact cement is better as it is waterproof. Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 10:48, Joel Aronson joel.aron...@gmail.com wrote: When I rebuilt the access panels I used a 3m spray adhesive to glue the vinyl to the wood. It is already coming unglued. Any recommendation on which adhesive to use? Joel Aronson ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5740 - Release Date: 04/12/13 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Question
Kind of sounds like the battle I'm losing with a new bearing on my car, the damn race just won't go in I finally took a caliper and measured the old vs new, 1mm difference. Jeez, on an automotive bearing that's a lot! That reminds me, I have to contact the parts vendor and try and get a replacement. Something about hoses, there are no regulated size guidelines. There is no standard and they measure them differently, or so says Nigel Calder. You may try purchasing a tiny section of another brand of hose in that size to see if it fits better. On a reinforced hose like that I bet 1mm or 2mm would make a big difference. Steve CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Robert Abbott robertabb...@eastlink.cawrote: Chuck: Yesterday, I did not have my 'heat gun'dumb had a ceramic heater, tap hot water, dish detergent, cut the inside edge of the hose with a box cutter to make an accepting angle of attachment.the problem is lack of leverage to push the hose over the not necessary 'lip' the manufacturer put on the mixing elbow.my next attempt on this job will include a 'heat gun'.If I have to I will melt the GD hose on the mixing elbow but one way or the other, it is going on. The hard part of this job was removing and reattaching the 'exhaust flange' from the 'exhaust manifold'.it's the incredibly difficult and limited space you have to work in.and my situation is further challenged by having a hot water tank in the locker I am trying to work from. Anchoring the new muffler wasn't exactly a relaxing moment but not as difficult as the mixing elbow. You gotta enjoy this sadistic pleasure or why would we own these wonderful boats? Bob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2013/04/11 7:28 PM, Chuck S wrote: Have you tired warming the hose? Wear gloves, heat up a tea kettle of water, soap up the mixing elbow with Joy dish detergent. Pour hot water on and into the hose end. Try not to get any in the mixing elbow. Be persisistent, be *Resolute*. Or offer to buy a yard guy a 30 pack of beer to show you? He'll probably do it on his break for you. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Atlantic City, NJ -- *From: *Robert Abbott robertabb...@eastlink.carobertabb...@eastlink.ca *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Sent: *Thursday, April 11, 2013 8:27:48 AM *Subject: *Stus-List Question Rich: I did that also, beveled the inside of the hose with a box cutter. The hose is a hard-walled, marine exhaust hose with a wire lining.extremely stiff. The lip on the mixing elbow is the challengebecause of where it is with me lying on my left side inside the engine compartment, I don't have enough leverage to push the hose over the lip. The other end slides on the new muffler with little effort. There's no way I could use an angle grinder down there to take the 'lip' off.I need the use of two hands to use the grinder properly/safely.I can't position myself with the room, or lack thereof, to do that. I have a hot water tank in the port lazarette that further restricts the access to the engine compartment. The idea of a 'tail pipe expander' might be the solutionit's only $20after what I went through yesterday and the way parts of my body feel today, I would gladly pay another $20 to bring this boat project to a conclusion. Bob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Adhesive
Tim: that's the shortest message with the longest disclaimer I think I have ever seen:) Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 10:58, Tim Sippel tim.sip...@rci.rogers.com wrote: Jinx ! This e-mail (and attachment(s)) is confidential, proprietary, may be subject to copyright and legal privilege and no related rights are waived. If you are not the intended recipient or its agent, any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or any of its content is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. All messages may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations and our policies to protect our business. E-mails are not secure and you are deemed to have accepted any risk if you communicate with us by e-mail. If received in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail (and any attachments) from any computer or any storage medium without printing a copy. Ce courriel (ainsi que ses pièces jointes) est confidentiel, exclusif, et peut faire l’objet de droit d’auteur et de privilège juridique; aucun droit connexe n’est exclu. Si vous n’êtes pas le destinataire visé ou son représentant, toute étude, diffusion, transmission ou copie de ce courriel en tout ou en partie, est strictement interdite et peut être illégale. Tous les messages peuvent être surveillés, selon les lois et règlements applicables et les politiques de protection de notre entreprise. Les courriels ne sont pas sécurisés et vous êtes réputés avoir accepté tous les risques qui y sont liés si vous choisissez de communiquer avec nous par ce moyen. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser immédiatement et supprimer ce courriel (ainsi que toutes ses pièces jointes) de tout ordinateur ou support de données sans en imprimer une copie. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Adhesive
I did not even think there was a message...what have I missed? Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Knowles Rich Sent: April 12, 2013 11:12 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Adhesive Tim: that's the shortest message with the longest disclaimer I think I have ever seen:) Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 10:58, Tim Sippel tim.sip...@rci.rogers.com wrote: Jinx ! This e-mail (and attachment(s)) is confidential, proprietary, may be subject to copyright and legal privilege and no related rights are waived. If you are not the intended recipient or its agent, any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or any of its content is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. All messages may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations and our policies to protect our business. E-mails are not secure and you are deemed to have accepted any risk if you communicate with us by e-mail. If received in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail (and any attachments) from any computer or any storage medium without printing a copy. Ce courriel (ainsi que ses pièces jointes) est confidentiel, exclusif, et peut faire lobjet de droit dauteur et de privilège juridique; aucun droit connexe nest exclu. Si vous nêtes pas le destinataire visé ou son représentant, toute étude, diffusion, transmission ou copie de ce courriel en tout ou en partie, est strictement interdite et peut être illégale. Tous les messages peuvent être surveillés, selon les lois et règlements applicables et les politiques de protection de notre entreprise. Les courriels ne sont pas sécurisés et vous êtes réputés avoir accepté tous les risques qui y sont liés si vous choisissez de communiquer avec nous par ce moyen. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser immédiatement et supprimer ce courriel (ainsi que toutes ses pièces jointes) de tout ordinateur ou support de données sans en imprimer une copie. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5740 - Release Date: 04/12/13 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Adhesive
jinx was the message , two of us recommended Contact cement I did not even think there was a message...what have I missed? Tim: that's the shortest message with the longest disclaimer I think I have ever seen:) Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 10:58, Tim Sippel tim.sip...@rci.rogers.com wrote: Jinx ! This e-mail (and attachment(s)) is confidential, proprietary, may be subject to copyright and legal privilege and no related rights are waived. If you are not the intended recipient or its agent, any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or any of its content is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. All messages may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations and our policies to protect our business. E-mails are not secure and you are deemed to have accepted any risk if you communicate with us by e-mail. If received in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail (and any attachments) from any computer or any storage medium without printing a copy. Ce courriel (ainsi que ses pièces jointes) est confidentiel, exclusif, et peut faire l’objet de droit d’auteur et de privilège juridique; aucun droit connexe n’est exclu. Si vous n’êtes pas le destinataire visé ou son représentant, toute étude, diffusion, transmission ou copie de ce courriel en tout ou en partie, est strictement interdite et peut être illégale. Tous les messages peuvent être surveillés, selon les lois et règlements applicables et les politiques de protection de notre entreprise. Les courriels ne sont pas sécurisés et vous êtes réputés avoir accepté tous les risques qui y sont liés si vous choisissez de communiquer avec nous par ce moyen. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser immédiatement et supprimer ce courriel (ainsi que toutes ses pièces jointes) de tout ordinateur ou support de données sans en imprimer une copie. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Adhesive
Jinx ! Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 12:32, dwight veinot dwightvei...@hfx.eastlink.ca wrote: I did not even think there was a message...what have I missed? Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Knowles Rich Sent: April 12, 2013 11:12 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Adhesive Tim: that's the shortest message with the longest disclaimer I think I have ever seen:) Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 10:58, Tim Sippel tim.sip...@rci.rogers.com wrote: Jinx ! This e-mail (and attachment(s)) is confidential, proprietary, may be subject to copyright and legal privilege and no related rights are waived. If you are not the intended recipient or its agent, any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or any of its content is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. All messages may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations and our policies to protect our business. E-mails are not secure and you are deemed to have accepted any risk if you communicate with us by e-mail. If received in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail (and any attachments) from any computer or any storage medium without printing a copy. Ce courriel (ainsi que ses pièces jointes) est confidentiel, exclusif, et peut faire l’objet de droit d’auteur et de privilège juridique; aucun droit connexe n’est exclu. Si vous n’êtes pas le destinataire visé ou son représentant, toute étude, diffusion, transmission ou copie de ce courriel en tout ou en partie, est strictement interdite et peut être illégale. Tous les messages peuvent être surveillés, selon les lois et règlements applicables et les politiques de protection de notre entreprise. Les courriels ne sont pas sécurisés et vous êtes réputés avoir accepté tous les risques qui y sont liés si vous choisissez de communiquer avec nous par ce moyen. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser immédiatement et supprimer ce courriel (ainsi que toutes ses pièces jointes) de tout ordinateur ou support de données sans en imprimer une copie. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5740 - Release Date: 04/12/13 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Adhesive
Why the lengthy disclaimer is my question:) Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 12:43, Tim Sippel tim.sip...@rci.rogers.com wrote: jinx was the message , two of us recommended Contact cement I did not even think there was a message...what have I missed? Tim: that's the shortest message with the longest disclaimer I think I have ever seen:) Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 10:58, Tim Sippel tim.sip...@rci.rogers.com wrote: Jinx ! This e-mail (and attachment(s)) is confidential, proprietary, may be subject to copyright and legal privilege and no related rights are waived. If you are not the intended recipient or its agent, any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or any of its content is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. All messages may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations and our policies to protect our business. E-mails are not secure and you are deemed to have accepted any risk if you communicate with us by e-mail. If received in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail (and any attachments) from any computer or any storage medium without printing a copy. Ce courriel (ainsi que ses pièces jointes) est confidentiel, exclusif, et peut faire l’objet de droit d’auteur et de privilège juridique; aucun droit connexe n’est exclu. Si vous n’êtes pas le destinataire visé ou son représentant, toute étude, diffusion, transmission ou copie de ce courriel en tout ou en partie, est strictement interdite et peut être illégale. Tous les messages peuvent être surveillés, selon les lois et règlements applicables et les politiques de protection de notre entreprise. Les courriels ne sont pas sécurisés et vous êtes réputés avoir accepté tous les risques qui y sont liés si vous choisissez de communiquer avec nous par ce moyen. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser immédiatement et supprimer ce courriel (ainsi que toutes ses pièces jointes) de tout ordinateur ou support de données sans en imprimer une copie. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Adhesive - message noise
Hi Rich, It looks to me like Tom is using his corporate email client (maybe phone) for replies. Cheers, Russ At 09:06 AM 12/04/2013, you wrote: Why the lengthy disclaimer is my question:) Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 12:43, Tim Sippel tim.sip...@rci.rogers.com wrote: jinx was the message , two of us recommended Contact cement I did not even think there was a message...what have I missed? Tim: that's the shortest message with the longest disclaimer I think I have ever seen:) Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 10:58, Tim Sippel tim.sip...@rci.rogers.com wrote: Jinx ! This e-mail (and attachment(s)) is confidential, proprietary, may be subject to copyright and legal privilege and no related rights are waived. If you are not the intended recipient or its agent, any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or any of its content is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. All messages may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations and our policies to protect our business. E-mails are not secure and you are deemed to have accepted any risk if you communicate with us by e-mail. If received in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail (and any attachments) from any computer or any storage medium without printing a copy. Ce courriel (ainsi que ses pièces jointes) est confidentiel, exclusif, et peut faire lâobjet de droit dâauteur et de privilège juridique; aucun droit connexe nâest exclu. Si vous nâêtes pas le destinataire visé ou son représentant, toute étude, diffusion, transmission ou copie de ce courriel en tout ou en partie, est strictement interdite et peut être illégale. Tous les messages peuvent être surveillés, selon les lois et règlements applicables et les politiques de protection de notre entreprise. Les courriels ne sont pas sécurisés et vous êtes réputés avoir accepté tous les risques qui y sont liés si vous choisissez de communiquer avec nous par ce moyen. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser immédiatement et supprimer ce courriel (ainsi que toutes ses pièces jointes) de tout ordinateur ou support de données sans en imprimer une copie. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video (Wally Bryant)
This has been a really good thread, highlighting the risks of casual racing. There are some good lessons and solid reminders of the situation we're in when we do these casual races. I started racing again last year after many years away from it. That made me an experienced but rusty racer, and what's worse, racing amongst folks with a wide variation in experience and acumen. For example on one race I starboarded two boats just after the start, completely in the right, but now realizing in hindsight completely ignorant of the abilities of those skippers and whether they would respond. Although there was no problem at the time, I won't do that again. Years ago we raced against the same competitors week after week and everyone knew everyone else. The crews were generally the same from week to week, even from year to year. It produced very close and well run races. I now realize I cannot expect this beer can stuff to be the same. I have to say a couple things about the video. It does not appear the leeward boat called out in any way. Should they have called hardening up to the windward boat? They did not give any warning of their movements. It didn't look to me like Blue was barging, they were on a close reach. Blues crew were indeed clueless, as was the helmsperson, but the tactician also made mistakes. He appeared to see the other boat but did not do or say enough until it was too late. I think he acknowledged this in his post. No question about windward leeward rule though, Blue was in the wrong but also agree leeward boat seemed to do nothing to avoid the collision. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:26:59 +0100 From: Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Message-ID: 516819b3.8020...@wbryant.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Yup, it's a bummer about Mike (tactician.) He owns the sail loft in La Cruz and does the morning weather on the local radio net, and is a great guy. Banderas Bay is a major winter cruiser hangout, and the crews on these races are almost always pickup crews that don't know the boat and have never sailed together. Probably not a good time to get aggressive at the start. Wal Chuck S wrote: snip The whole crew looked rather distracted and inexperienced. No one is looking for traffic. That's everyone's job. snip -- ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Adhesive - message noise
Yeah, I know:). Impressive! Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 13:13, Russ Melody russ...@telus.net wrote: Hi Rich, It looks to me like Tom is using his corporate email client (maybe phone) for replies. Cheers, Russ At 09:06 AM 12/04/2013, you wrote: Why the lengthy disclaimer is my question:) Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 12:43, Tim Sippel tim.sip...@rci.rogers.com wrote: jinx was the message , two of us recommended Contact cement I did not even think there was a message...what have I missed? Tim: that's the shortest message with the longest disclaimer I think I have ever seen:) Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 10:58, Tim Sippel tim.sip...@rci.rogers.com wrote: Jinx ! This e-mail (and attachment(s)) is confidential, proprietary, may be subject to copyright and legal privilege and no related rights are waived. If you are not the intended recipient or its agent, any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or any of its content is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. All messages may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations and our policies to protect our business. E-mails are not secure and you are deemed to have accepted any risk if you communicate with us by e-mail. If received in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail (and any attachments) from any computer or any storage medium without printing a copy. Ce courriel (ainsi que ses pièces jointes) est confidentiel, exclusif, et peut faire l’objet de droit d’auteur et de privilège juridique; aucun droit connexe n’est exclu. Si vous n’êtes pas le destinataire visé ou son représentant, toute étude, diffusion, transmission ou copie de ce courriel en tout ou en partie, est strictement interdite et peut être illégale. Tous les messages peuvent être surveillés, selon les lois et règlements applicables et les politiques de protection de notre entreprise. Les courriels ne sont pas sécurisés et vous êtes réputés avoir accepté tous les risques qui y sont liés si vous choisissez de communiquer avec nous par ce moyen. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, veuillez nous en aviser immédiatement et supprimer ce courriel (ainsi que toutes ses pièces jointes) de tout ordinateur ou support de données sans en imprimer une copie. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Stus-List Racing prizes
On a slightly different racing tack: Prizes I was at a club meeting last night at which prizes for racing came up for discussion. The talk ranged from glasses and flags to club services such as hull washes, and sponsored prizes like coats and other swag. I'm in the glass and little flag group which is a throwback to the 70's and 80's. Others would like much bigger/ more opulent awards. What does your club do for the weekly races, series and regattas? Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 13:54, OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca wrote: This has been a really good thread, highlighting the risks of casual racing. There are some good lessons and solid reminders of the situation we're in when we do these casual races. I started racing again last year after many years away from it. That made me an experienced but rusty racer, and what's worse, racing amongst folks with a wide variation in experience and acumen. For example on one race I starboarded two boats just after the start, completely in the right, but now realizing in hindsight completely ignorant of the abilities of those skippers and whether they would respond. Although there was no problem at the time, I won't do that again. Years ago we raced against the same competitors week after week and everyone knew everyone else. The crews were generally the same from week to week, even from year to year. It produced very close and well run races. I now realize I cannot expect this beer can stuff to be the same. I have to say a couple things about the video. It does not appear the leeward boat called out in any way. Should they have called hardening up to the windward boat? They did not give any warning of their movements. It didn't look to me like Blue was barging, they were on a close reach. Blues crew were indeed clueless, as was the helmsperson, but the tactician also made mistakes. He appeared to see the other boat but did not do or say enough until it was too late. I think he acknowledged this in his post. No question about windward leeward rule though, Blue was in the wrong but also agree leeward boat seemed to do nothing to avoid the collision. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:26:59 +0100 From: Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Message-ID: 516819b3.8020...@wbryant.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Yup, it's a bummer about Mike (tactician.) He owns the sail loft in La Cruz and does the morning weather on the local radio net, and is a great guy. Banderas Bay is a major winter cruiser hangout, and the crews on these races are almost always pickup crews that don't know the boat and have never sailed together. Probably not a good time to get aggressive at the start. Wal Chuck S wrote: snip The whole crew looked rather distracted and inexperienced. No one is looking for traffic. That's everyone's job. snip -- ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
Rich We do flags at BHYC for our major races. At RNSYS I like the glasses they give out on Wednesdays. At BBYC they gave out tins of stuff on their Danginn Cup race - almost embarrassing as it included inflatable vests, Handheld VHF radio and a bunch of other stuff for 1st place. The BBYC prizes were so outstanding though that perhaps next year attendence will increase as a result Mike -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Knowles Rich Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 2:05 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Racing prizes On a slightly different racing tack: Prizes I was at a club meeting last night at which prizes for racing came up for discussion. The talk ranged from glasses and flags to club services such as hull washes, and sponsored prizes like coats and other swag. I'm in the glass and little flag group which is a throwback to the 70's and 80's. Others would like much bigger/ more opulent awards. What does your club do for the weekly races, series and regattas? Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 13:54, OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca wrote: This has been a really good thread, highlighting the risks of casual racing. There are some good lessons and solid reminders of the situation we're in when we do these casual races. I started racing again last year after many years away from it. That made me an experienced but rusty racer, and what's worse, racing amongst folks with a wide variation in experience and acumen. For example on one race I starboarded two boats just after the start, completely in the right, but now realizing in hindsight completely ignorant of the abilities of those skippers and whether they would respond. Although there was no problem at the time, I won't do that again. Years ago we raced against the same competitors week after week and everyone knew everyone else. The crews were generally the same from week to week, even from year to year. It produced very close and well run races. I now realize I cannot expect this beer can stuff to be the same. I have to say a couple things about the video. It does not appear the leeward boat called out in any way. Should they have called hardening up to the windward boat? They did not give any warning of their movements. It didn't look to me like Blue was barging, they were on a close reach. Blues crew were indeed clueless, as was the helmsperson, but the tactician also made mistakes. He appeared to see the other boat but did not do or say enough until it was too late. I think he acknowledged this in his post. No question about windward leeward rule though, Blue was in the wrong but also agree leeward boat seemed to do nothing to avoid the collision. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:26:59 +0100 From: Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Message-ID: 516819b3.8020...@wbryant.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Yup, it's a bummer about Mike (tactician.) He owns the sail loft in La Cruz and does the morning weather on the local radio net, and is a great guy. Banderas Bay is a major winter cruiser hangout, and the crews on these races are almost always pickup crews that don't know the boat and have never sailed together. Probably not a good time to get aggressive at the start. Wal Chuck S wrote: snip The whole crew looked rather distracted and inexperienced. No one is looking for traffic. That's everyone's job. snip -- ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
I have way to many glasses and little things that collect dust. My favorite small prize is a Rainier Beer can with a small bronze sheet metal cut out of a sailboat on top given away after a Friday night beer can series. Recently Seattle Yacht Club awarded hats embroidered with the series name, finish place (1st, 2nd, 3rd) and the burgee. For a low key regatta or series I suspect many participants would enjoy the hat/shirt/vest type of soft award that is usable/wearable and slightly unique. My favorite big trophy (perpetual, shared by all of us on the charter over 2 years then returned) was the compass on a teak binnacle awarded for being first to finish, class B, Transpac 1985. IIRC the trophy was specifically awarded to acknowledge excellence in navigation and weather routing but we the equal charterers all collected it together. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Knowles Rich Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 10:05 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Racing prizes On a slightly different racing tack: Prizes I was at a club meeting last night at which prizes for racing came up for discussion. The talk ranged from glasses and flags to club services such as hull washes, and sponsored prizes like coats and other swag. I'm in the glass and little flag group which is a throwback to the 70's and 80's. Others would like much bigger/ more opulent awards. What does your club do for the weekly races, series and regattas? Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 13:54, OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca wrote: This has been a really good thread, highlighting the risks of casual racing. There are some good lessons and solid reminders of the situation we're in when we do these casual races. I started racing again last year after many years away from it. That made me an experienced but rusty racer, and what's worse, racing amongst folks with a wide variation in experience and acumen. For example on one race I starboarded two boats just after the start, completely in the right, but now realizing in hindsight completely ignorant of the abilities of those skippers and whether they would respond. Although there was no problem at the time, I won't do that again. Years ago we raced against the same competitors week after week and everyone knew everyone else. The crews were generally the same from week to week, even from year to year. It produced very close and well run races. I now realize I cannot expect this beer can stuff to be the same. I have to say a couple things about the video. It does not appear the leeward boat called out in any way. Should they have called hardening up to the windward boat? They did not give any warning of their movements. It didn't look to me like Blue was barging, they were on a close reach. Blues crew were indeed clueless, as was the helmsperson, but the tactician also made mistakes. He appeared to see the other boat but did not do or say enough until it was too late. I think he acknowledged this in his post. No question about windward leeward rule though, Blue was in the wrong but also agree leeward boat seemed to do nothing to avoid the collision. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:26:59 +0100 From: Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Message-ID: 516819b3.8020...@wbryant.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Yup, it's a bummer about Mike (tactician.) He owns the sail loft in La Cruz and does the morning weather on the local radio net, and is a great guy. Banderas Bay is a major winter cruiser hangout, and the crews on these races are almost always pickup crews that don't know the boat and have never sailed together. Probably not a good time to get aggressive at the start. Wal Chuck S wrote: snip The whole crew looked rather distracted and inexperienced. No one is looking for traffic. That's everyone's job. snip -- ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video (Wally Bryant)
Yea but, that Camelot boat was all over the place, he came from the starboard, crossed the bow then nearly hit a 3rd boat, tacked back abruptly right back into the their path, by then they were pinched by that sport fisher. It looked to me they'd have had to change course out around the sport fisher way early to have avoided Camelot, which would have meant some real foresight... but, I know, admittedly, nothing about racing... and still consider myself a new sailor... So, I may be way off base... Danny -- Original Message -- From: OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video (Wally Bryant) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:54:54 -0400 This has been a really good thread, highlighting the risks of casual racing. There are some good lessons and solid reminders of the situation we're in when we do these casual races. I started racing again last year after many years away from it. That made me an experienced but rusty racer, and what's worse, racing amongst folks with a wide variation in experience and acumen. For example on one race I starboarded two boats just after the start, completely in the right, but now realizing in hindsight completely ignorant of the abilities of those skippers and whether they would respond. Although there was no problem at the time, I won't do that again. Years ago we raced against the same competitors week after week and everyone knew everyone else. The crews were generally the same from week to week, even from year to year. It produced very close and well run races. I now realize I cannot expect this beer can stuff to be the same. I have to say a couple things about the video. It does not appear the leeward boat called out in any way. Should they have called hardening up to the windward boat? They did not give any warning of their movements. It didn't look to me like Blue was barging, they were on a close reach. Blues crew were indeed clueless, as was the helmsperson, but the tactician also made mistakes. He appeared to see the other boat but did not do or say enough until it was too late. I think he acknowledged this in his post. No question about windward leeward rule though, Blue was in the wrong but also agree leeward boat seemed to do nothing to avoid the collision. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:26:59 +0100 From: Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Message-ID: 516819b3.8020...@wbryant.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Yup, it's a bummer about Mike (tactician.) He owns the sail loft in La Cruz and does the morning weather on the local radio net, and is a great guy. Banderas Bay is a major winter cruiser hangout, and the crews on these races are almost always pickup crews that don't know the boat and have never sailed together. Probably not a good time to get aggressive at the start. Wal Chuck S wrote: snip The whole crew looked rather distracted and inexperienced. No one is looking for traffic. That's everyone's job. snip -- ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
I race Wed nights at a paper club that is hosted by a restaurant right on the water overlooking the docks where a bunch of us keep our boats. Membership runs $60 for the entire year and includes racing in the spring, summer, fall and frostbite series. After the races the restaurant puts on a nice buffet and has a boaters beer at cheap price. They also video the races so you can watch it while you eat. Trophies are nicely etched glasses for everything except for BOY who gets a plaque. Pat On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Martin DeYoung mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.comwrote: I have way to many glasses and little things that collect dust. My favorite small prize is a Rainier Beer can with a small bronze sheet metal cut out of a sailboat on top given away after a Friday night beer can series. Recently Seattle Yacht Club awarded hats embroidered with the series name, finish place (1st, 2nd, 3rd) and the burgee. For a low key regatta or series I suspect many participants would enjoy the hat/shirt/vest type of soft award that is usable/wearable and slightly unique. My favorite big trophy (perpetual, shared by all of us on the charter over 2 years then returned) was the compass on a teak binnacle awarded for being first to finish, class B, Transpac 1985. IIRC the trophy was specifically awarded to acknowledge excellence in navigation and weather routing but we the equal charterers all collected it together. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Knowles Rich Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 10:05 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Racing prizes On a slightly different racing tack: Prizes I was at a club meeting last night at which prizes for racing came up for discussion. The talk ranged from glasses and flags to club services such as hull washes, and sponsored prizes like coats and other swag. I'm in the glass and little flag group which is a throwback to the 70's and 80's. Others would like much bigger/ more opulent awards. What does your club do for the weekly races, series and regattas? Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 13:54, OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca wrote: This has been a really good thread, highlighting the risks of casual racing. There are some good lessons and solid reminders of the situation we're in when we do these casual races. I started racing again last year after many years away from it. That made me an experienced but rusty racer, and what's worse, racing amongst folks with a wide variation in experience and acumen. For example on one race I starboarded two boats just after the start, completely in the right, but now realizing in hindsight completely ignorant of the abilities of those skippers and whether they would respond. Although there was no problem at the time, I won't do that again. Years ago we raced against the same competitors week after week and everyone knew everyone else. The crews were generally the same from week to week, even from year to year. It produced very close and well run races. I now realize I cannot expect this beer can stuff to be the same. I have to say a couple things about the video. It does not appear the leeward boat called out in any way. Should they have called hardening up to the windward boat? They did not give any warning of their movements. It didn't look to me like Blue was barging, they were on a close reach. Blues crew were indeed clueless, as was the helmsperson, but the tactician also made mistakes. He appeared to see the other boat but did not do or say enough until it was too late. I think he acknowledged this in his post. No question about windward leeward rule though, Blue was in the wrong but also agree leeward boat seemed to do nothing to avoid the collision. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:26:59 +0100 From: Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Message-ID: 516819b3.8020...@wbryant.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Yup, it's a bummer about Mike (tactician.) He owns the sail loft in La Cruz and does the morning weather on the local radio net, and is a great guy. Banderas Bay is a major winter cruiser hangout, and the crews on these races are almost always pickup crews that don't know the boat and have never sailed together. Probably not a good time to get aggressive at the start. Wal Chuck S wrote: snip The whole crew looked rather distracted and inexperienced. No one is looking for traffic. That's everyone's job. snip -- ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
I've always liked the white NOOD shirts I have that are given out as the overall trophies. 'Cause, well, you know, ostentatious! ;-) Dave 1982 CC 37 - Ronin Sent from my iPhone On Apr 12, 2013, at 1:27 PM, Pat Nevitt pnev...@gmail.com wrote: I race Wed nights at a paper club that is hosted by a restaurant right on the water overlooking the docks where a bunch of us keep our boats. Membership runs $60 for the entire year and includes racing in the spring, summer, fall and frostbite series. After the races the restaurant puts on a nice buffet and has a boaters beer at cheap price. They also video the races so you can watch it while you eat. Trophies are nicely etched glasses for everything except for BOY who gets a plaque. Pat On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Martin DeYoung mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com wrote: I have way to many glasses and little things that collect dust. My favorite small prize is a Rainier Beer can with a small bronze sheet metal cut out of a sailboat on top given away after a Friday night beer can series. Recently Seattle Yacht Club awarded hats embroidered with the series name, finish place (1st, 2nd, 3rd) and the burgee. For a low key regatta or series I suspect many participants would enjoy the hat/shirt/vest type of soft award that is usable/wearable and slightly unique. My favorite big trophy (perpetual, shared by all of us on the charter over 2 years then returned) was the compass on a teak binnacle awarded for being first to finish, class B, Transpac 1985. IIRC the trophy was specifically awarded to acknowledge excellence in navigation and weather routing but we the equal charterers all collected it together. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Knowles Rich Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 10:05 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Racing prizes On a slightly different racing tack: Prizes I was at a club meeting last night at which prizes for racing came up for discussion. The talk ranged from glasses and flags to club services such as hull washes, and sponsored prizes like coats and other swag. I'm in the glass and little flag group which is a throwback to the 70's and 80's. Others would like much bigger/ more opulent awards. What does your club do for the weekly races, series and regattas? Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 13:54, OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca wrote: This has been a really good thread, highlighting the risks of casual racing. There are some good lessons and solid reminders of the situation we're in when we do these casual races. I started racing again last year after many years away from it. That made me an experienced but rusty racer, and what's worse, racing amongst folks with a wide variation in experience and acumen. For example on one race I starboarded two boats just after the start, completely in the right, but now realizing in hindsight completely ignorant of the abilities of those skippers and whether they would respond. Although there was no problem at the time, I won't do that again. Years ago we raced against the same competitors week after week and everyone knew everyone else. The crews were generally the same from week to week, even from year to year. It produced very close and well run races. I now realize I cannot expect this beer can stuff to be the same. I have to say a couple things about the video. It does not appear the leeward boat called out in any way. Should they have called hardening up to the windward boat? They did not give any warning of their movements. It didn't look to me like Blue was barging, they were on a close reach. Blues crew were indeed clueless, as was the helmsperson, but the tactician also made mistakes. He appeared to see the other boat but did not do or say enough until it was too late. I think he acknowledged this in his post. No question about windward leeward rule though, Blue was in the wrong but also agree leeward boat seemed to do nothing to avoid the collision. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:26:59 +0100 From: Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Message-ID: 516819b3.8020...@wbryant.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Yup, it's a bummer about Mike (tactician.) He owns the sail loft in La Cruz and does the morning weather on the local radio net, and is a great guy. Banderas Bay is a major winter cruiser hangout, and the crews on these races are almost always pickup crews that don't know the boat and have never sailed together. Probably not a good time to get aggressive at the start. Wal Chuck S
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
Last time I raced, plastic glasses with a sponsor logo like Tim hortons, too cheap...but we also had some special trophies for special races and the winning boat name, maybe skipper too, went on a plague so there were years of plaques on the trophies...we won several times but no one remembers unless they look and we did it with different boats so who knows who...it's not the prize that counts it's the fun but I still use some beer mug trophies around here from the olden days and I gave a lot to crew...always split the prizes with the crew some how. Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Knowles Rich Sent: April 12, 2013 2:05 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Racing prizes On a slightly different racing tack: Prizes I was at a club meeting last night at which prizes for racing came up for discussion. The talk ranged from glasses and flags to club services such as hull washes, and sponsored prizes like coats and other swag. I'm in the glass and little flag group which is a throwback to the 70's and 80's. Others would like much bigger/ more opulent awards. What does your club do for the weekly races, series and regattas? Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 13:54, OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca wrote: This has been a really good thread, highlighting the risks of casual racing. There are some good lessons and solid reminders of the situation we're in when we do these casual races. I started racing again last year after many years away from it. That made me an experienced but rusty racer, and what's worse, racing amongst folks with a wide variation in experience and acumen. For example on one race I starboarded two boats just after the start, completely in the right, but now realizing in hindsight completely ignorant of the abilities of those skippers and whether they would respond. Although there was no problem at the time, I won't do that again. Years ago we raced against the same competitors week after week and everyone knew everyone else. The crews were generally the same from week to week, even from year to year. It produced very close and well run races. I now realize I cannot expect this beer can stuff to be the same. I have to say a couple things about the video. It does not appear the leeward boat called out in any way. Should they have called hardening up to the windward boat? They did not give any warning of their movements. It didn't look to me like Blue was barging, they were on a close reach. Blues crew were indeed clueless, as was the helmsperson, but the tactician also made mistakes. He appeared to see the other boat but did not do or say enough until it was too late. I think he acknowledged this in his post. No question about windward leeward rule though, Blue was in the wrong but also agree leeward boat seemed to do nothing to avoid the collision. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:26:59 +0100 From: Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Message-ID: 516819b3.8020...@wbryant.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Yup, it's a bummer about Mike (tactician.) He owns the sail loft in La Cruz and does the morning weather on the local radio net, and is a great guy. Banderas Bay is a major winter cruiser hangout, and the crews on these races are almost always pickup crews that don't know the boat and have never sailed together. Probably not a good time to get aggressive at the start. Wal Chuck S wrote: snip The whole crew looked rather distracted and inexperienced. No one is looking for traffic. That's everyone's job. snip -- ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5740 - Release Date: 04/12/13 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
I would join that one, where is it.sounds like you guys have fun Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Pat Nevitt Sent: April 12, 2013 2:27 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing prizes I race Wed nights at a paper club that is hosted by a restaurant right on the water overlooking the docks where a bunch of us keep our boats. Membership runs $60 for the entire year and includes racing in the spring, summer, fall and frostbite series. After the races the restaurant puts on a nice buffet and has a boaters beer at cheap price. They also video the races so you can watch it while you eat. Trophies are nicely etched glasses for everything except for BOY who gets a plaque. Pat On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Martin DeYoung mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com wrote: I have way to many glasses and little things that collect dust. My favorite small prize is a Rainier Beer can with a small bronze sheet metal cut out of a sailboat on top given away after a Friday night beer can series. Recently Seattle Yacht Club awarded hats embroidered with the series name, finish place (1st, 2nd, 3rd) and the burgee. For a low key regatta or series I suspect many participants would enjoy the hat/shirt/vest type of soft award that is usable/wearable and slightly unique. My favorite big trophy (perpetual, shared by all of us on the charter over 2 years then returned) was the compass on a teak binnacle awarded for being first to finish, class B, Transpac 1985. IIRC the trophy was specifically awarded to acknowledge excellence in navigation and weather routing but we the equal charterers all collected it together. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Knowles Rich Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 10:05 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Racing prizes On a slightly different racing tack: Prizes I was at a club meeting last night at which prizes for racing came up for discussion. The talk ranged from glasses and flags to club services such as hull washes, and sponsored prizes like coats and other swag. I'm in the glass and little flag group which is a throwback to the 70's and 80's. Others would like much bigger/ more opulent awards. What does your club do for the weekly races, series and regattas? Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 13:54, OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca wrote: This has been a really good thread, highlighting the risks of casual racing. There are some good lessons and solid reminders of the situation we're in when we do these casual races. I started racing again last year after many years away from it. That made me an experienced but rusty racer, and what's worse, racing amongst folks with a wide variation in experience and acumen. For example on one race I starboarded two boats just after the start, completely in the right, but now realizing in hindsight completely ignorant of the abilities of those skippers and whether they would respond. Although there was no problem at the time, I won't do that again. Years ago we raced against the same competitors week after week and everyone knew everyone else. The crews were generally the same from week to week, even from year to year. It produced very close and well run races. I now realize I cannot expect this beer can stuff to be the same. I have to say a couple things about the video. It does not appear the leeward boat called out in any way. Should they have called hardening up to the windward boat? They did not give any warning of their movements. It didn't look to me like Blue was barging, they were on a close reach. Blues crew were indeed clueless, as was the helmsperson, but the tactician also made mistakes. He appeared to see the other boat but did not do or say enough until it was too late. I think he acknowledged this in his post. No question about windward leeward rule though, Blue was in the wrong but also agree leeward boat seemed to do nothing to avoid the collision. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:26:59 +0100 From: Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Message-ID: 516819b3.8020...@wbryant.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Yup, it's a bummer about Mike (tactician.) He owns the sail loft in La Cruz and does the morning weather on the local radio net, and is a great guy. Banderas Bay is a major winter cruiser hangout, and the crews on these races are almost always pickup crews that don't know the boat and have never sailed together. Probably not a good time to get aggressive at the start. Wal Chuck S wrote: snip The whole crew looked rather distracted and inexperienced. No one
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
I favor half models. : ) Seriously, if I get a trophy, it means that I have had a particularly good day/weekend/series and I want a tangible reminder of it; a souvenir, if you will. So services or clothing don't cut it. I want something I need to dust and that evokes good memories. Cheers Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Knowles Rich r...@sailpower.ca wrote: On a slightly different racing tack: Prizes I was at a club meeting last night at which prizes for racing came up for discussion. The talk ranged from glasses and flags to club services such as hull washes, and sponsored prizes like coats and other swag. I'm in the glass and little flag group which is a throwback to the 70's and 80's. Others would like much bigger/ more opulent awards. What does your club do for the weekly races, series and regattas? Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 13:54, OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca wrote: This has been a really good thread, highlighting the risks of casual racing. There are some good lessons and solid reminders of the situation we're in when we do these casual races. I started racing again last year after many years away from it. That made me an experienced but rusty racer, and what's worse, racing amongst folks with a wide variation in experience and acumen. For example on one race I starboarded two boats just after the start, completely in the right, but now realizing in hindsight completely ignorant of the abilities of those skippers and whether they would respond. Although there was no problem at the time, I won't do that again. Years ago we raced against the same competitors week after week and everyone knew everyone else. The crews were generally the same from week to week, even from year to year. It produced very close and well run races. I now realize I cannot expect this beer can stuff to be the same. I have to say a couple things about the video. It does not appear the leeward boat called out in any way. Should they have called hardening up to the windward boat? They did not give any warning of their movements. It didn't look to me like Blue was barging, they were on a close reach. Blues crew were indeed clueless, as was the helmsperson, but the tactician also made mistakes. He appeared to see the other boat but did not do or say enough until it was too late. I think he acknowledged this in his post. No question about windward leeward rule though, Blue was in the wrong but also agree leeward boat seemed to do nothing to avoid the collision. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:26:59 +0100 From: Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Message-ID: 516819b3.8020...@wbryant.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Yup, it's a bummer about Mike (tactician.) He owns the sail loft in La Cruz and does the morning weather on the local radio net, and is a great guy. Banderas Bay is a major winter cruiser hangout, and the crews on these races are almost always pickup crews that don't know the boat and have never sailed together. Probably not a good time to get aggressive at the start. Wal Chuck S wrote: snip The whole crew looked rather distracted and inexperienced. No one is looking for traffic. That's everyone's job. snip -- ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
For the past 13 years, I ran an organization called the Eastchester Bay Yacht Racing Association (a/k/a EBYRA -- see www.EBYRA.COM). For the awards, we would go with cups, dishes, sailboats, spyglasses, etc…. Basically anything that was different than years past and in which comes in three-four different sizes totaling $100-$150 per division. We use a guy on Long Island who has great prices (Long Island Awards Gallery in Syosset, NY). We also have, for each division, a large perpetual award which each year's first place boat gets their name engraved on it and they get to keep it for a year. We also have perpetual awards for participation with a few different criteria and a bronze banana award for crew performance (For the gorillas on foredeck usually). All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
Who wouldn't, but they are rather pricey, aren't they? And what would I do with a houseful of half models and quite a few for crew.now I am bragging right :-) Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Burton Sent: April 12, 2013 2:51 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing prizes I favor half models. : ) Seriously, if I get a trophy, it means that I have had a particularly good day/weekend/series and I want a tangible reminder of it; a souvenir, if you will. So services or clothing don't cut it. I want something I need to dust and that evokes good memories. Cheers Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Knowles Rich r...@sailpower.ca wrote: On a slightly different racing tack: Prizes I was at a club meeting last night at which prizes for racing came up for discussion. The talk ranged from glasses and flags to club services such as hull washes, and sponsored prizes like coats and other swag. I'm in the glass and little flag group which is a throwback to the 70's and 80's. Others would like much bigger/ more opulent awards. What does your club do for the weekly races, series and regattas? Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 13:54, OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca wrote: This has been a really good thread, highlighting the risks of casual racing. There are some good lessons and solid reminders of the situation we're in when we do these casual races. I started racing again last year after many years away from it. That made me an experienced but rusty racer, and what's worse, racing amongst folks with a wide variation in experience and acumen. For example on one race I starboarded two boats just after the start, completely in the right, but now realizing in hindsight completely ignorant of the abilities of those skippers and whether they would respond. Although there was no problem at the time, I won't do that again. Years ago we raced against the same competitors week after week and everyone knew everyone else. The crews were generally the same from week to week, even from year to year. It produced very close and well run races. I now realize I cannot expect this beer can stuff to be the same. I have to say a couple things about the video. It does not appear the leeward boat called out in any way. Should they have called hardening up to the windward boat? They did not give any warning of their movements. It didn't look to me like Blue was barging, they were on a close reach. Blues crew were indeed clueless, as was the helmsperson, but the tactician also made mistakes. He appeared to see the other boat but did not do or say enough until it was too late. I think he acknowledged this in his post. No question about windward leeward rule though, Blue was in the wrong but also agree leeward boat seemed to do nothing to avoid the collision. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:26:59 +0100 From: Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Message-ID: 516819b3.8020...@wbryant.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Yup, it's a bummer about Mike (tactician.) He owns the sail loft in La Cruz and does the morning weather on the local radio net, and is a great guy. Banderas Bay is a major winter cruiser hangout, and the crews on these races are almost always pickup crews that don't know the boat and have never sailed together. Probably not a good time to get aggressive at the start. Wal Chuck S wrote: snip The whole crew looked rather distracted and inexperienced. No one is looking for traffic. That's everyone's job. snip -- ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5740 - Release Date: 04/12/13 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
Dwight, It's an established fact that you can never have too many half models! You should see my house; I'm one of my best customers. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:58 PM, dwight veinot dwightvei...@hfx.eastlink.ca wrote: ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** Who wouldn’t, but they are rather pricey, aren’t they? And what would I do with a houseful of half models and quite a few for crew…now I am bragging right J ** ** Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS ** ** -- *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Andrew Burton *Sent:* April 12, 2013 2:51 PM *To:* **cnc-list@cnc-list.com** *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Racing prizes ** ** I favor half models. : ) Seriously, if I get a trophy, it means that I have had a particularly good day/weekend/series and I want a tangible reminder of it; a souvenir, if you will. So services or clothing don't cut it. I want something I need to dust and that evokes good memories. Cheers Andy CC 40 Peregrine ** ** On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Knowles Rich r...@sailpower.ca wrote:** ** On a slightly different racing tack: Prizes I was at a club meeting last night at which prizes for racing came up for discussion. The talk ranged from glasses and flags to club services such as hull washes, and sponsored prizes like coats and other swag. I'm in the glass and little flag group which is a throwback to the 70's and 80's. Others would like much bigger/ more opulent awards. What does your club do for the weekly races, series and regattas? Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 13:54, OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca wrote: This has been a really good thread, highlighting the risks of casual racing. There are some good lessons and solid reminders of the situation we're in when we do these casual races. I started racing again last year after many years away from it. That made me an experienced but rusty racer, and what's worse, racing amongst folks with a wide variation in experience and acumen. For example on one race I starboarded two boats just after the start, completely in the right, but now realizing in hindsight completely ignorant of the abilities of those skippers and whether they would respond. Although there was no problem at the time, I won't do that again. Years ago we raced against the same competitors week after week and everyone knew everyone else. The crews were generally the same from week to week, even from year to year. It produced very close and well run races. I now realize I cannot expect this beer can stuff to be the same. I have to say a couple things about the video. It does not appear the leeward boat called out in any way. Should they have called hardening up to the windward boat? They did not give any warning of their movements. It didn't look to me like Blue was barging, they were on a close reach. Blues crew were indeed clueless, as was the helmsperson, but the tactician also made mistakes. He appeared to see the other boat but did not do or say enough until it was too late. I think he acknowledged this in his post. No question about windward leeward rule though, Blue was in the wrong but also agree leeward boat seemed to do nothing to avoid the collision. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:26:59 +0100 From: Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Message-ID: 516819b3.8020...@wbryant.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Yup, it's a bummer about Mike (tactician.) He owns the sail loft in La Cruz and does the morning weather on the local radio net, and is a great guy. Banderas** **Bay is a major winter cruiser hangout, and the crews on these races are almost always pickup crews that don't know the boat and have never sailed together. Probably not a good time to get aggressive at the start. Wal Chuck S wrote: snip The whole crew looked rather distracted and inexperienced. No one is looking for traffic. That's everyone's job. snip -- ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport**, **RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 -- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
Here's a good example of the awards we've given out over the years -- a shot of the Enterprise's trophy case in my dining room. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15162917/awards.jpg All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
How do you keep them all from falling off the shelves? Oh, wait -- the photo is sideways... Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Apr 12, 2013, at 1:07 PM, Edd Schillay e...@schillay.com wrote: Here's a good example of the awards we've given out over the years -- a shot of the Enterprise's trophy case in my dining room. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15162917/awards.jpg ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
Thanks Bill and Rich. Sometimes we get our shit together and know how to get around some buoys. Sometimes . . . . . I admit, I'm a little tired of the standard candy dish and plate thing. My favorites are the hand-painted watercolor and the shotgun shell. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website On Apr 12, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Wwadjourn wwadjo...@aol.com wrote: Jeez Edd, that's scary! I have TWO of these exact cabinets in my living room. Nice hardware. Bill Walker Evening Star CnC 36 Pentwater, Mi. -Original Message- From: Edd Schillay e...@schillay.com To: cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Fri, Apr 12, 2013 2:08 pm Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing prizes Here's a good example of the awards we've given out over the years -- a shot of the Enterprise's trophy case in my dining room. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15162917/awards.jpg All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
Blue was allowed to sail her course until she was the give-way boat. As soon as she overlapped Camelot, she was the give-way boat, and had to keep clear. When a give-way boat is so close to a right-of-way boat, such that the right-of-way boat cannot turn in either direction without immediately touching the give-way boat, the give-way boat has violated her obligation to keep clear. They do not have to touch in order to prove that Blue did not keep clear. See Dave Perry's Understanding The Racing Rules of Sailing through 2016, page 96. In addition, the right-of-way boat must take the appropriate action to avoid hitting the give-way boat , when it appears that the give-way boat is not going to keep clear, after which she can protest the give-way boat. There is no requirement for either boat to communicate with the other boat, but it is prudent to do so. If Camelot had called to Blue to head up, or yelled leeward boat or no room, it might have been enough to keep the boats from colliding. If Blue couldn't control her direction, she could have called to Camelot to fall off, that she couldn't steer away, Camelot might have been able to fall off and avoid the crash. She then could have protested Blue. Since both boats broke rules of part 2 of the Racing Rules of Sailing (Blue-Rule 11, Same tack Overlapped; Camelot-Rule 14, Avoiding Contact), both boats should have been penalized by retiring from the race (Rule 44.1(b). Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
They do not have to touch in order to prove that Blue did not keep clear. Alan, you are correct. Sadly, unless a camera is rolling the right of way boat has a better chance of proving a foul if there is contact. I was in a port-starboard situation as a kid racing 420s. The port tack boat kept yelling at me to maintain course. I ducked him at the last second to avoid damaging both boats. Fortunately, it was at the finish in front of the RC, and they heard the yelling and saw it happen. Otherwise, I probably would have lost the protest because it was my word against his that a collision would have occurred. Joel 35/3 Annapolis The Office On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:30 PM, Alan Bergen alan-at-h...@comcast.netwrote: Blue was allowed to sail her course until she was the give-way boat. As soon as she overlapped Camelot, she was the give-way boat, and had to keep clear. When a give-way boat is so close to a right-of-way boat, such that the right-of-way boat cannot turn in either direction without immediately touching the give-way boat, the give-way boat has violated her obligation to keep clear. They do not have to touch in order to prove that Blue did not keep clear. See Dave Perry's Understanding The Racing Rules of Sailing through 2016, page 96. In addition, the right-of-way boat must take the appropriate action to avoid hitting the give-way boat, when it appears that the give-way boat is not going to keep clear, after which she can protest the give-way boat. There is no requirement for either boat to communicate with the other boat, but it is prudent to do so. If Camelot had called to Blue to head up, or yelled leeward boat or no room, it might have been enough to keep the boats from colliding. If Blue couldn't control her direction, she could have called to Camelot to fall off, that she couldn't steer away, Camelot might have been able to fall off and avoid the crash. She then could have protested Blue. Since both boats broke rules of part 2 of the Racing Rules of Sailing (Blue-Rule 11, Same tack Overlapped; Camelot-Rule 14, Avoiding Contact), both boats should have been penalized by retiring from the race (Rule 44.1(b). Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Stus-List Replacing bow nav light bulb
I need to replace the bulb in one of my bow lights. Do I remove the acorn nuts on the back or the phillips screws on the front? Should I tape a box to the rail to catch the screws? -- Joel 35/3 Annapolis 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Replacing bow nav light bulb
Joel, Usually, it's the screw on the front, but it depends on the light housing you have. And yes, set up something to catch screws and other pieces that could come loose. Also be sure it's the bulb and not a wiring issue. Lastly, I would recommend a LED replacement -- bright enough, legal, and less power consumption. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website On Apr 12, 2013, at 2:41 PM, Joel Aronson joel.aron...@gmail.com wrote: I need to replace the bulb in one of my bow lights. Do I remove the acorn nuts on the back or the phillips screws on the front? Should I tape a box to the rail to catch the screws? -- Joel 35/3 Annapolis 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Replacing bow nav light bulb
Since we have no idea of what the precise lights are, I suggest all the above:) Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2013-04-12, at 15:41, Joel Aronson joel.aron...@gmail.com wrote: I need to replace the bulb in one of my bow lights. Do I remove the acorn nuts on the back or the phillips screws on the front? Should I tape a box to the rail to catch the screws? -- Joel 35/3 Annapolis 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Replacing bow nav light bulb
Joel, All the wiring for mine ran through the anchor locker and I fixed mine by simply redoing the wire connections in the locker. If it's the bulb, I'll come down there and dangle you over the side by the ankles :). Also, boxes work great but have straight edges. Try using a fanny pack or a small backpack where you can get the lip of the bag up over the deck edge and tape it down. Pat On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Joel Aronson joel.aron...@gmail.comwrote: I need to replace the bulb in one of my bow lights. Do I remove the acorn nuts on the back or the phillips screws on the front? Should I tape a box to the rail to catch the screws? -- Joel 35/3 Annapolis 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Replacing bow nav light bulb
Thanks. If I only had a clamp type volt meter I'd know if is only the bulb! I'll check in the locker first. On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Pat Nevitt pnev...@gmail.com wrote: Joel, All the wiring for mine ran through the anchor locker and I fixed mine by simply redoing the wire connections in the locker. If it's the bulb, I'll come down there and dangle you over the side by the ankles :). Also, boxes work great but have straight edges. Try using a fanny pack or a small backpack where you can get the lip of the bag up over the deck edge and tape it down. Pat On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Joel Aronson joel.aron...@gmail.comwrote: I need to replace the bulb in one of my bow lights. Do I remove the acorn nuts on the back or the phillips screws on the front? Should I tape a box to the rail to catch the screws? -- Joel 35/3 Annapolis 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
I like the idea of the shotgun shell for a first to finish prize. andy CC 40 Peregrine On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Edd Schillay e...@schillay.com wrote: Thanks Bill and Rich. Sometimes we get our shit together and know how to get around some buoys. Sometimes . . . . . I admit, I'm a little tired of the standard candy dish and plate thing. My favorites are the hand-painted watercolor and the shotgun shell. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Websitehttp://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ On Apr 12, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Wwadjourn wwadjo...@aol.com wrote: Jeez Edd, that's scary! I have TWO of these exact cabinets in my living room. Nice hardware. Bill Walker Evening Star CnC 36 Pentwater, Mi. -Original Message- From: Edd Schillay e...@schillay.com To: cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Fri, Apr 12, 2013 2:08 pm Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing prizes Here's a good example of the awards we've given out over the years -- a shot of the Enterprise's trophy case in my dining room. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15162917/awards.jpg All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Websitehttp://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Albumhttp://www.cncphotoalbum.comcnc-l...@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
Stuffed animals. Go to a big toy store, buy a stuffed lion, tiger or bear, and chop off its head. Then tack it down to a mahogany plaque. Make sure the plaque is big enough to hold enough little brass tags for the next 50 years, because it will be a trophy that no one will forget and eventually everyone will want. Wal ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
I participated in one charity race where the trophies were three sizes of conch shell foghorns with all sorts of beaded macrame on them. Similar to these: http://www.conchking.com/Horns.htm Bill Bina On 4/12/2013 3:47 PM, Wally Bryant wrote: Stuffed animals. Go to a big toy store, buy a stuffed lion, tiger or bear, and chop off its head. Then tack it down to a mahogany plaque. Make sure the plaque is big enough to hold enough little brass tags for the next 50 years, because it will be a trophy that no one will forget and eventually everyone will want. Wal ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
Which end of the remaining part of the stuffed animal would you mount? I guess that would depend on first or third . . . . All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website On Apr 12, 2013, at 3:47 PM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: Stuffed animals. Go to a big toy store, buy a stuffed lion, tiger or bear, and chop off its head. Then tack it down to a mahogany plaque. Make sure the plaque is big enough to hold enough little brass tags for the next 50 years, because it will be a trophy that no one will forget and eventually everyone will want. Wal ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video (Wally Bryant)
From my view, the tactician on Blue was totally to blame, but maybe not legally (he was not 'captain'), so someone else will get sued for medical costs, which are likely to be substantial. His tactics called for going as close as he possibly could to a boat that had the rights, and the need, to come up. It looked like Blue had (a little) space to go up to the committee boat, so their barging might have paid off, but they were early, so he pushed it even further by calling bow down to the helmsman when overlapped, after which the outcome was fairly certain. I know you wouldn't want to incriminate yourself online, but the film (wide angle makes it hard to say for sure) and the protest findings don't support his 'biggest mistake was not seeing the other boat was erratic and that they might know enough to be dangerous. Sure, a real racer would have shut the door on them earlier, or told them loudly to f#% off out of there, but it was his mistake of directing the helm to a space they had no right to claim that caused it. Tim Mojito CC 35-3 Branford, CT On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:24 PM, djhaug...@juno.com djhaug...@juno.comwrote: Yea but, that Camelot boat was all over the place, he came from the starboard, crossed the bow then nearly hit a 3rd boat, tacked back abruptly right back into the their path, by then they were pinched by that sport fisher. It looked to me they'd have had to change course out around the sport fisher way early to have avoided Camelot, which would have meant some real foresight... but, I know, admittedly, nothing about racing... and still consider myself a new sailor... So, I may be way off base... Danny -- Original Message -- From: OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video (Wally Bryant) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:54:54 -0400 This has been a really good thread, highlighting the risks of casual racing. There are some good lessons and solid reminders of the situation we're in when we do these casual races. I started racing again last year after many years away from it. That made me an experienced but rusty racer, and what's worse, racing amongst folks with a wide variation in experience and acumen. For example on one race I starboarded two boats just after the start, completely in the right, but now realizing in hindsight completely ignorant of the abilities of those skippers and whether they would respond. Although there was no problem at the time, I won't do that again. Years ago we raced against the same competitors week after week and everyone knew everyone else. The crews were generally the same from week to week, even from year to year. It produced very close and well run races. I now realize I cannot expect this beer can stuff to be the same. I have to say a couple things about the video. It does not appear the leeward boat called out in any way. Should they have called hardening up to the windward boat? They did not give any warning of their movements. It didn't look to me like Blue was barging, they were on a close reach. Blues crew were indeed clueless, as was the helmsperson, but the tactician also made mistakes. He appeared to see the other boat but did not do or say enough until it was too late. I think he acknowledged this in his post. No question about windward leeward rule though, Blue was in the wrong but also agree leeward boat seemed to do nothing to avoid the collision. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:26:59 +0100 From: Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Message-ID: 516819b3.8020...@wbryant.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Yup, it's a bummer about Mike (tactician.) He owns the sail loft in La Cruz and does the morning weather on the local radio net, and is a great guy. Banderas Bay is a major winter cruiser hangout, and the crews on these races are almost always pickup crews that don't know the boat and have never sailed together. Probably not a good time to get aggressive at the start. Wal Chuck S wrote: snip The whole crew looked rather distracted and inexperienced. No one is looking for traffic. That's everyone's job. snip -- ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
WowIn the dinning room, i'm impressed Jim Bradley Allergo Andante CC34+ Barrie,Ont From: e...@schillay.com Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:07:49 -0400 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing prizes Here's a good example of the awards we've given out over the years -- a shot of the Enterprise's trophy case in my dining room. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15162917/awards.jpg All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video (Wally Bryant)
Not off base at all. Personally, I think a fundamental rule of sailing is don't wreck the boat. vbg (Another fundamental rule is don't fall off the boat.) I'm with you, man, that boat was not under control. It's not about insurance, it's about the hassle. It doesn't really matter who's right or who's wrong, if someone (or the boat) gets hurt it's a total drag. I've never been a racer, but that Rule 14 thing has always made a lot of sense. I've been asked if I wanted to crew on some of these 'casual cruiser' races down here but have always declined. In that situation, I would have been a 'good crew' on an unknown boat, which in my mind means 'you tell me what to do -- it's *your* boat.' If you want me to drop the main off, then you have to say 'drop the main off,' and hope that I understand that you mean 'release the main sheet so the main drops off to leeward' and not 'release the main halyard.' VBG Heck, I've sailed Stella Blue with unknown crew on board, and it's really hard to sail the boat when four people are shouting 'what do you want me to do now' and 'I think this halyard should be a little tighter' and 'on my boat the lines run differently, do you have a snatch block so that I can re-rig your boat the way I think it ought to be' and 'this isn't a Farr 40 and I would like to tell you why your boat is totally wrong' and 'I sail a Melges 24 and your boat sails like a pig' and VBG So perhaps the crew was just shutting up and waiting for the captain. I think the smartest thing I did with this boat was to rig it for single handing. But that's way off topic. I remember one time when I, as crew, said to the captain 'I really think we should tack now' and he said 'I'm captain and I'll say when to tack.' No margin of error or safety left when he made the call, and a minor equipment failure made the resultant collision memorable. (It's been 30 years.) He always said 'it wasn't my fault, it was an equipment failure' and I say 'whatever.' Wal Danny wrote: Yea but, that Camelot boat was all over the place, he came from the starboard, crossed the bow then nearly hit a 3rd boat, tacked back abruptly right back into the their path, by then they were pinched by that sport fisher. It looked to me they'd have had to change course out around the sport fisher way early to have avoided Camelot, which would have meant some real foresight... but, I know, admittedly, nothing about racing... and still consider myself a new sailor... So, I may be way off base... ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
Alan, Does Dave Perry’s 2016 RRoS book clarify the difference, if any, between before the start and after crossing the starting line regarding Rule 11 and 14? It has been a while since I read Dave’s last RRoS book but I recall something about the right-of-way boat having more flexibility before the starting gun. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bergen Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 11:31 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Blue was allowed to sail her course until she was the give-way boat. As soon as she overlapped Camelot, she was the give-way boat, and had to keep clear. When a give-way boat is so close to a right-of-way boat, such that the right-of-way boat cannot turn in either direction without immediately touching the give-way boat, the give-way boat has violated her obligation to keep clear. They do not have to touch in order to prove that Blue did not keep clear. See Dave Perry's Understanding The Racing Rules of Sailing through 2016, page 96. In addition, the right-of-way boat must take the appropriate action to avoid hitting the give-way boat, when it appears that the give-way boat is not going to keep clear, after which she can protest the give-way boat. There is no requirement for either boat to communicate with the other boat, but it is prudent to do so. If Camelot had called to Blue to head up, or yelled leeward boat or no room, it might have been enough to keep the boats from colliding. If Blue couldn't control her direction, she could have called to Camelot to fall off, that she couldn't steer away, Camelot might have been able to fall off and avoid the crash. She then could have protested Blue. Since both boats broke rules of part 2 of the Racing Rules of Sailing (Blue-Rule 11, Same tack Overlapped; Camelot-Rule 14, Avoiding Contact), both boats should have been penalized by retiring from the race (Rule 44.1(b). Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
Martin, The rules apply as long as a boat is RACING. By definition, a boat is RACING from the 4-minute prep signal of her start until she has finished and her hull has cleared the finish line. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website On Apr 12, 2013, at 4:25 PM, Martin DeYoung mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com wrote: Alan, Does Dave Perry’s 2016 RRoS book clarify the difference, if any, between before the start and after crossing the starting line regarding Rule 11 and 14? It has been a while since I read Dave’s last RRoS book but I recall something about the right-of-way boat having more flexibility before the starting gun. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bergen Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 11:31 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Blue was allowed to sail her course until she was the give-way boat. As soon as she overlapped Camelot, she was the give-way boat, and had to keep clear. When a give-way boat is so close to a right-of-way boat, such that the right-of-way boat cannot turn in either direction without immediately touching the give-way boat, the give-way boat has violated her obligation to keep clear. They do not have to touch in order to prove that Blue did not keep clear. See Dave Perry's Understanding The Racing Rules of Sailing through 2016, page 96. In addition, the right-of-way boat must take the appropriate action to avoid hitting the give-way boat, when it appears that the give-way boat is not going to keep clear, after which she can protest the give-way boat. There is no requirement for either boat to communicate with the other boat, but it is prudent to do so. If Camelot had called to Blue to head up, or yelled leeward boat or no room, it might have been enough to keep the boats from colliding. If Blue couldn't control her direction, she could have called to Camelot to fall off, that she couldn't steer away, Camelot might have been able to fall off and avoid the crash. She then could have protested Blue. Since both boats broke rules of part 2 of the Racing Rules of Sailing (Blue-Rule 11, Same tack Overlapped; Camelot-Rule 14, Avoiding Contact), both boats should have been penalized by retiring from the race (Rule 44.1(b). Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Replacing bow nav light bulb
Screw on the front. They are plenty long and probably won't fall out, but the box isn't a bad idea anyway - might catch the gasket that goes between the front and back... Graham Collins Secret Plans CC 35-III #11 On 2013-04-12 3:41 PM, Joel Aronson wrote: I need to replace the bulb in one of my bow lights. Do I remove the acorn nuts on the back or the phillips screws on the front? Should I tape a box to the rail to catch the screws? -- Joel 35/3 Annapolis 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
I beleive the question related to this: Before the start gun, the leeward boat can go head to wind, after the start, he can go only to close hauled. Henry Reeve Lone Star, LF38 Vancouver, BC ~ ~~_/) _/) ~~ _/) ~ _/)_/)_/)~~ Whenever I find myself growing grim about the mouth; ... then, I account it high time to get to sea as soon as I can. From: Edd Schillay e...@schillay.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 1:28:44 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Martin, The rules apply as long as a boat is RACING. By definition, a boat is RACING from the 4-minute prep signal of her start until she has finished and her hull has cleared the finish line. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website On Apr 12, 2013, at 4:25 PM, Martin DeYoung mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com wrote: Alan, Does Dave Perry’s 2016 RRoS book clarify the difference, if any, between before the start and after crossing the starting line regarding Rule 11 and 14? It has been a while since I read Dave’s last RRoS book but I recall something about the right-of-way boat having more flexibility before the starting gun. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bergen Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 11:31 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Blue was allowed to sail her course until she was the give-way boat. As soon as she overlapped Camelot, she was the give-way boat, and had to keep clear. When a give-way boat is so close to a right-of-way boat, such that the right-of-way boat cannot turn in either direction without immediately touching the give-way boat, the give-way boat has violated her obligation to keep clear. They do not have to touch in order to prove that Blue did not keep clear. See Dave Perry's Understanding The Racing Rules of Sailing through 2016, page 96. In addition, the right-of-way boat must take the appropriate action to avoid hitting the give-way boat, when it appears that the give-way boat is not going to keep clear, after which she can protest the give-way boat. There is no requirement for either boat to communicate with the other boat, but it is prudent to do so. If Camelot had called to Blue to head up, or yelled leeward boat or no room, it might have been enough to keep the boats from colliding. If Blue couldn't control her direction, she could have called to Camelot to fall off, that she couldn't steer away, Camelot might have been able to fall off and avoid the crash. She then could have protested Blue. Since both boats broke rules of part 2 of the Racing Rules of Sailing (Blue-Rule 11, Same tack Overlapped; Camelot-Rule 14, Avoiding Contact), both boats should have been penalized by retiring from the race (Rule 44.1(b). Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/ CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/ CnC-List@cnc-list.com___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
The difference may involve the definition of proper course. I have not read the book on the newest RRoS to see if any changes were made but IIRC at one time the leeward boat could go head to wind without regard to proper course before the start. On a related RRoS starting issue: During a pursuit race (timed start based on ratings, slowest first), if a slower rated boat's assigned start time has passed but they have not crossed the starting line (light air, adverse current) which part of the RRoS applies as Calypso enters the start line area within 4 minutes of the assigned start time? Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 1:29 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Martin, The rules apply as long as a boat is RACING. By definition, a boat is RACING from the 4-minute prep signal of her start until she has finished and her hull has cleared the finish line. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Websitehttp://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ On Apr 12, 2013, at 4:25 PM, Martin DeYoung mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.commailto:mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com wrote: Alan, Does Dave Perry's 2016 RRoS book clarify the difference, if any, between before the start and after crossing the starting line regarding Rule 11 and 14? It has been a while since I read Dave's last RRoS book but I recall something about the right-of-way boat having more flexibility before the starting gun. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.commailto:list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bergen Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 11:31 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Blue was allowed to sail her course until she was the give-way boat. As soon as she overlapped Camelot, she was the give-way boat, and had to keep clear. When a give-way boat is so close to a right-of-way boat, such that the right-of-way boat cannot turn in either direction without immediately touching the give-way boat, the give-way boat has violated her obligation to keep clear. They do not have to touch in order to prove that Blue did not keep clear. See Dave Perry's Understanding The Racing Rules of Sailing through 2016, page 96. In addition, the right-of-way boat must take the appropriate action to avoid hitting the give-way boat, when it appears that the give-way boat is not going to keep clear, after which she can protest the give-way boat. There is no requirement for either boat to communicate with the other boat, but it is prudent to do so. If Camelot had called to Blue to head up, or yelled leeward boat or no room, it might have been enough to keep the boats from colliding. If Blue couldn't control her direction, she could have called to Camelot to fall off, that she couldn't steer away, Camelot might have been able to fall off and avoid the crash. She then could have protested Blue. Since both boats broke rules of part 2 of the Racing Rules of Sailing (Blue-Rule 11, Same tack Overlapped; Camelot-Rule 14, Avoiding Contact), both boats should have been penalized by retiring from the race (Rule 44.1(b). Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.commailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Replacing bow nav light bulb
I'm guessing your lights are like mine - attached to a SS plate which is welded onto the pulpit. there are two, long slotted screws in the front of the lens. I recommend replacing the festoon bulbs with LED bulbs with the same contacts. Also remember to reinstall the lens right side up. It will attach either way, but upside down the lights won't shine in the right direction. Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
After the preparatory signal (boats are now racing and must sail by the racing rules) but before the starting signal, the leeward boat can sail all the way up to head to wind. After the starting signal, she cannot sail higher than close hauled. Boats must still avoid contact if at all possible. Crossing the starting line has no effect on how rules 11 and 14 are applied. Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR Alan, Does Dave Perry’s 2016 RRoS book clarify the difference, if any, between before the start and after crossing the starting line regarding Rule 11 and 14? It has been a while since I read Dave’s last RRoS book but I recall something about the right-of-way boat having more flexibility before the starting gun. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com ] On Behalf Of Alan Bergen Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 11:31 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Blue was allowed to sail her course until she was the give-way boat. As soon as she overlapped Camelot, she was the give-way boat, and had to keep clear. When a give-way boat is so close to a right-of-way boat, such that the right-of-way boat cannot turn in either direction without immediately touching the give-way boat, the give-way boat has violated her obligation to keep clear. They do not have to touch in order to prove that Blue did not keep clear. See Dave Perry's Understanding The Racing Rules of Sailing through 2016, page 96. In addition, the right-of-way boat must take the appropriate action to avoid hitting the give-way boat, when it appears that the give-way boat is not going to keep clear, after which she can protest the give-way boat. There is no requirement for either boat to communicate with the other boat, but it is prudent to do so. If Camelot had called to Blue to head up, or yelled leeward boat or no room, it might have been enough to keep the boats from colliding. If Blue couldn't control her direction, she could have called to Camelot to fall off, that she couldn't steer away, Camelot might have been able to fall off and avoid the crash. She then could have protested Blue. Since both boats broke rules of part 2 of the Racing Rules of Sailing (Blue-Rule 11, Same tack Overlapped; Camelot-Rule 14, Avoiding Contact), both boats should have been penalized by retiring from the race (Rule 44.1(b). Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
Alan, Thanks for the clarification. I had it about right in my mind but occasionally slip back to the earlier rules and want to yell “mast abeam” at somebody. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bergen Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 2:36 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video After the preparatory signal (boats are now racing and must sail by the racing rules) but before the starting signal, the leeward boat can sail all the way up to head to wind. After the starting signal, she cannot sail higher than close hauled. Boats must still avoid contact if at all possible. Crossing the starting line has no effect on how rules 11 and 14 are applied. Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR Alan, Does Dave Perry’s 2016 RRoS book clarify the difference, if any, between before the start and after crossing the starting line regarding Rule 11 and 14? It has been a while since I read Dave’s last RRoS book but I recall something about the right-of-way boat having more flexibility before the starting gun. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
Isn't that the primary rule. avoid contact I mean, racing or not? Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bergen Sent: April 12, 2013 6:36 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video After the preparatory signal (boats are now racing and must sail by the racing rules) but before the starting signal, the leeward boat can sail all the way up to head to wind. After the starting signal, she cannot sail higher than close hauled. Boats must still avoid contact if at all possible. Crossing the starting line has no effect on how rules 11 and 14 are applied. Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR Alan, Does Dave Perry's 2016 RRoS book clarify the difference, if any, between before the start and after crossing the starting line regarding Rule 11 and 14? It has been a while since I read Dave's last RRoS book but I recall something about the right-of-way boat having more flexibility before the starting gun. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bergen Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 11:31 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Blue was allowed to sail her course until she was the give-way boat. As soon as she overlapped Camelot, she was the give-way boat, and had to keep clear. When a give-way boat is so close to a right-of-way boat, such that the right-of-way boat cannot turn in either direction without immediately touching the give-way boat, the give-way boat has violated her obligation to keep clear. They do not have to touch in order to prove that Blue did not keep clear. See Dave Perry's Understanding The Racing Rules of Sailing through 2016, page 96. In addition, the right-of-way boat must take the appropriate action to avoid hitting the give-way boat, when it appears that the give-way boat is not going to keep clear, after which she can protest the give-way boat. There is no requirement for either boat to communicate with the other boat, but it is prudent to do so. If Camelot had called to Blue to head up, or yelled leeward boat or no room, it might have been enough to keep the boats from colliding. If Blue couldn't control her direction, she could have called to Camelot to fall off, that she couldn't steer away, Camelot might have been able to fall off and avoid the crash. She then could have protested Blue. Since both boats broke rules of part 2 of the Racing Rules of Sailing (Blue-Rule 11, Same tack Overlapped; Camelot-Rule 14, Avoiding Contact), both boats should have been penalized by retiring from the race (Rule 44.1(b). Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5740 - Release Date: 04/12/13 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video - starts
Hi Martin, I should have known the answer right away, had the North U tactics seminar last month... but that was over four weeks ago and the details got pushed aside already. Definitions (abridged): Proper Course - A course a boat would sail to finish asap in the absence of other boats referred to in the rule using the term. A boat has no proper course before her starting signal. Start - A boat starts when, having been entirely on the pre-start side of the starting line at or after her starting signal, and having complied with rule 30.1 if it applies, when any part of her hull etc. crosses the starting line in the direction of the first mark. So, she has a proper course at he start signal even though she hasn't started. Cheers, Russ Sweet 35 mk-1 At 02:22 PM 12/04/2013, you wrote: The difference may involve the definition of proper course. I have not read the book on the newest RRoS to see if any changes were made but IIRC at one time the leeward boat could go head to wind without regard to proper course before the start. On a related RRoS starting issue: During a pursuit race (timed start based on ratings, slowest first), if a slower rated boat's assigned start time has passed but they have not crossed the starting line (light air, adverse current) which part of the RRoS applies as Calypso enters the start line area within 4 minutes of the assigned start time? Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 1:29 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Martin, The rules apply as long as a boat is RACING. By definition, a boat is RACING from the 4-minute prep signal of her start until she has finished and her hull has cleared the finish line. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website On Apr 12, 2013, at 4:25 PM, Martin DeYoung mailto:mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.commdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com wrote: Alan, Does Dave Perry's 2016 RRoS book clarify the difference, if any, between before the start and after crossing the starting line regarding Rule 11 and 14? It has been a while since I read Dave's last RRoS book but I recall something about the right-of-way boat having more flexibility before the starting gun. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bergen Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 11:31 AM To: mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.comcnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Blue was allowed to sail her course until she was the give-way boat. As soon as she overlapped Camelot, she was the give-way boat, and had to keep clear. When a give-way boat is so close to a right-of-way boat, such that the right-of-way boat cannot turn in either direction without immediately touching the give-way boat, the give-way boat has violated her obligation to keep clear. They do not have to touch in order to prove that Blue did not keep clear. See Dave Perry's Understanding The Racing Rules of Sailing through 2016, page 96. In addition, the right-of-way boat must take the appropriate action to avoid hitting the give-way boat, when it appears that the give-way boat is not going to keep clear, after which she can protest the give-way boat. There is no requirement for either boat to communicate with the other boat, but it is prudent to do so. If Camelot had called to Blue to head up, or yelled leeward boat or no room, it might have been enough to keep the boats from colliding. If Blue couldn't control her direction, she could have called to Camelot to fall off, that she couldn't steer away, Camelot might have been able to fall off and avoid the crash. She then could have protested Blue. Since both boats broke rules of part 2 of the Racing Rules of Sailing (Blue-Rule 11, Same tack Overlapped; Camelot-Rule 14, Avoiding Contact), both boats should have been penalized by retiring from the race (Rule 44.1(b). Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.comhttp://www.cncphotoalbum.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.comCnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race video
David, My habit of talking to myself during the race really helps during the start. That way my tactician can hear what I'm thinking and give me advice if needed. I've been on some serious race boats that have been eerily quiet, except for a low-key monologue in the cockpit interspersed with wind and boat info from the crew on the rail. Great stuff. Jake Jake Brodersen CC 35 Mk-III Midnight Mistress Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Risch Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 8:21 AM To: CNC CNC Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video After an unintended round-up by an inattentive mainsheet handler (no consequences but the committee boat was 20 boat-lengths away...gives one pause) I give the mainsheet to the most experienced crew on board during the start and the jib sheet tailor to the second most experienced. They need to watch your every move and listen to every word you say. When close maneuvering I narrate what I am doing so those two folks are working in concert with the helm. Keeps us out of trouble. David F. Risch 1981 40 (401) 419-4650 (cell) ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Adhesive
Joel, I painted the bare plywood. Looks great after five years. I'll post some pics to dropbox when I get a chance. Jake Jake Brodersen CC 35 Mk-III Midnight Mistress Hampton VA -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 9:48 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Adhesive When I rebuilt the access panels I used a 3m spray adhesive to glue the vinyl to the wood. It is already coming unglued. Any recommendation on which adhesive to use? Joel Aronson ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Adhesive
thanks. Joel Sent from my iPad On Apr 12, 2013, at 6:18 PM, Jake Brodersen captain_j...@cox.net wrote: Joel, I painted the bare plywood. Looks great after five years. I'll post some pics to dropbox when I get a chance. Jake Jake Brodersen CC 35 Mk-III Midnight Mistress Hampton VA -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 9:48 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Adhesive When I rebuilt the access panels I used a 3m spray adhesive to glue the vinyl to the wood. It is already coming unglued. Any recommendation on which adhesive to use? Joel Aronson ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
Blue was close hauled with lots of power, what looks like an uncoordinated crew and in close quarters. She was give way boat and it looks to me like she was barging the line hell bent to get across inside of what looks like the committee boat, and ahead and to windward of the fleet. If she went up hard she either had to tack away or risk ramming what I think is the committee boat. I can't tell if the leeward boat had room to fall off safely to avoid collision with blue without making a collision with the boat below her, looks like she was being taken up too. I heard now up now up now up now up so someone on Blue knew they were being taken up but I don't think the helmsman or the crew acted soon enough or fast enough. The helmsman's effort to steer up seemed ineffective, not much of a rudder on that boat if you ask me. The mainsail trimmer tensioned for more close hauled course and looks like the jib trimmer did the same.seems like the crew did not know how to sail that boat under those conditions in close quarters.they did not appear to know what to expect from the boat and the crew.if I turned the wheel that aggressively on my 35 I feel certain she would go up, now I have to try that to find out for sure and ruin a perfectly nice beat some day. Haven't raced in a while. what is in the rule about barging Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bergen Sent: April 12, 2013 6:36 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video After the preparatory signal (boats are now racing and must sail by the racing rules) but before the starting signal, the leeward boat can sail all the way up to head to wind. After the starting signal, she cannot sail higher than close hauled. Boats must still avoid contact if at all possible. Crossing the starting line has no effect on how rules 11 and 14 are applied. Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR Alan, Does Dave Perry's 2016 RRoS book clarify the difference, if any, between before the start and after crossing the starting line regarding Rule 11 and 14? It has been a while since I read Dave's last RRoS book but I recall something about the right-of-way boat having more flexibility before the starting gun. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bergen Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 11:31 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Blue was allowed to sail her course until she was the give-way boat. As soon as she overlapped Camelot, she was the give-way boat, and had to keep clear. When a give-way boat is so close to a right-of-way boat, such that the right-of-way boat cannot turn in either direction without immediately touching the give-way boat, the give-way boat has violated her obligation to keep clear. They do not have to touch in order to prove that Blue did not keep clear. See Dave Perry's Understanding The Racing Rules of Sailing through 2016, page 96. In addition, the right-of-way boat must take the appropriate action to avoid hitting the give-way boat, when it appears that the give-way boat is not going to keep clear, after which she can protest the give-way boat. There is no requirement for either boat to communicate with the other boat, but it is prudent to do so. If Camelot had called to Blue to head up, or yelled leeward boat or no room, it might have been enough to keep the boats from colliding. If Blue couldn't control her direction, she could have called to Camelot to fall off, that she couldn't steer away, Camelot might have been able to fall off and avoid the crash. She then could have protested Blue. Since both boats broke rules of part 2 of the Racing Rules of Sailing (Blue-Rule 11, Same tack Overlapped; Camelot-Rule 14, Avoiding Contact), both boats should have been penalized by retiring from the race (Rule 44.1(b). Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5740 - Release Date: 04/12/13 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Adhesive
thanks for the photos. I went to the trouble of peeling off the vinyl, so I'll try a differnet adhesive. Paint is plan B. Joel Sent from my iPad On Apr 12, 2013, at 6:18 PM, Jake Brodersen captain_j...@cox.net wrote: Joel, I painted the bare plywood. Looks great after five years. I'll post some pics to dropbox when I get a chance. Jake Jake Brodersen CC 35 Mk-III Midnight Mistress Hampton VA -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 9:48 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Adhesive When I rebuilt the access panels I used a 3m spray adhesive to glue the vinyl to the wood. It is already coming unglued. Any recommendation on which adhesive to use? Joel Aronson ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
Yeah, I actually get really annoyed at folks with Racer Boats who play right-of-way games. One time some jerk in a J boat tried to run me into a pylon of the Golden Gate Bridge, even though I had right-of-way. I just wanted to tack, but he wouldn't let me, so I finally luffed up and let him go, so I could tack over behind him. Then the moron tacked right behind me to steal my wind, and his whole crew cheered like they had won something. Short guys on big boats... ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
Alan, Great points. Communication is always good to have. I have hollered at a couple of barging boats and intimidated them into peeling away early. They know I can “close the door” and won’t hesitate to do so. In the old days we used to give the windward boat a “love tap” and then throw the flag on them. If we could make contact, they obviously weren’t keeping clear. The rules have long since changed…but some days I miss those times. I see far too many skippers that are reluctant or slow to respond to a luff. I hate spending the evening in the protest room! Jake Jake Brodersen CC 35 Mk-III Midnight Mistress Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bergen Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 2:31 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Blue was allowed to sail her course until she was the give-way boat. As soon as she overlapped Camelot, she was the give-way boat, and had to keep clear. When a give-way boat is so close to a right-of-way boat, such that the right-of-way boat cannot turn in either direction without immediately touching the give-way boat, the give-way boat has violated her obligation to keep clear. They do not have to touch in order to prove that Blue did not keep clear. See Dave Perry's Understanding The Racing Rules of Sailing through 2016, page 96. In addition, the right-of-way boat must take the appropriate action to avoid hitting the give-way boat, when it appears that the give-way boat is not going to keep clear, after which she can protest the give-way boat. There is no requirement for either boat to communicate with the other boat, but it is prudent to do so. If Camelot had called to Blue to head up, or yelled leeward boat or no room, it might have been enough to keep the boats from colliding. If Blue couldn't control her direction, she could have called to Camelot to fall off, that she couldn't steer away, Camelot might have been able to fall off and avoid the crash. She then could have protested Blue. Since both boats broke rules of part 2 of the Racing Rules of Sailing (Blue-Rule 11, Same tack Overlapped; Camelot-Rule 14, Avoiding Contact), both boats should have been penalized by retiring from the race (Rule 44.1(b). Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Replacing bow nav light bulb
Joel, The screws on the front are what you need to remove. They are long and usually don't fall out. They may even be captive. I've never dropped one, but there's always a first time. Unscrew them and then pull the lens away as a unit (with the stainless shield). Watch out and don't let the gasket fall overboard though. The gasket may be loose. Jake From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 2:42 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Replacing bow nav light bulb I need to replace the bulb in one of my bow lights. Do I remove the acorn nuts on the back or the phillips screws on the front? Should I tape a box to the rail to catch the screws? -- Joel 35/3 Annapolis 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
I tend to agree Dwight. That's a gripping video and reminds me of a very similar situation I got myself into last year minus the crushed legs. I was being too aggressive, boats touched and although no protest came of it, I was at fault and should have bailed when I was getting squeezed out of the pack before the committee boat. On the deck after the race much discussion was held and I insisted I could not change course for I would have rammed the committee boat but later when the photos came out I realized I had plenty of time to abandon the start and not look like a knob. The point is at speed within lengths of the line and adrenaline is up with a bunch of fast boats a nose blow apart, it's easy to make a decision that you wished you hadn't after the fact and unfortunately the only solution to this is experience. On the plus side the event was educational, provided lively beer talk and no damage was done. Brent 27-5 Lake Winnipeg Sent from my iPhone On 2013-04-12, at 5:25 PM, dwight veinot dwightvei...@hfx.eastlink.ca wrote: Blue was close hauled with lots of power, what looks like an uncoordinated crew and in close quarters. She was give way boat and it looks to me like she was barging the line hell bent to get across inside of what looks like the committee boat, and ahead and to windward of the fleet. If she went up hard she either had to tack away or risk ramming what I think is the committee boat. I can’t tell if the leeward boat had room to fall off safely to avoid collision with blue without making a collision with the boat below her, looks like she was being taken up too. I heard now up now up now up now up so someone on Blue knew they were being taken up but I don’t think the helmsman or the crew acted soon enough or fast enough. The helmsman’s effort to steer up seemed ineffective, not much of a rudder on that boat if you ask me. The mainsail trimmer tensioned for more close hauled course and looks like the jib trimmer did the same…seems like the crew did not know how to sail that boat under those conditions in close quarters…they did not appear to know what to expect from the boat and the crew…if I turned the wheel that aggressively on my 35 I feel certain she would go up, now I have to try that to find out for sure and ruin a perfectly nice beat some day. Haven’t raced in a while… what is in the rule about barging Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bergen Sent: April 12, 2013 6:36 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video After the preparatory signal (boats are now racing and must sail by the racing rules) but before the starting signal, the leeward boat can sail all the way up to head to wind. After the starting signal, she cannot sail higher than close hauled. Boats must still avoid contact if at all possible. Crossing the starting line has no effect on how rules 11 and 14 are applied. Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR Alan, Does Dave Perry’s 2016 RRoS book clarify the difference, if any, between before the start and after crossing the starting line regarding Rule 11 and 14? It has been a while since I read Dave’s last RRoS book but I recall something about the right-of-way boat having more flexibility before the starting gun. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bergen Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 11:31 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Blue was allowed to sail her course until she was the give-way boat. As soon as she overlapped Camelot, she was the give-way boat, and had to keep clear. When a give-way boat is so close to a right-of-way boat, such that the right-of-way boat cannot turn in either direction without immediately touching the give-way boat, the give-way boat has violated her obligation to keep clear. They do not have to touch in order to prove that Blue did not keep clear. See Dave Perry's Understanding The Racing Rules of Sailing through 2016, page 96. In addition, the right-of-way boat must take the appropriate action to avoid hitting the give-way boat, when it appears that the give-way boat is not going to keep clear, after which she can protest the give-way boat. There is no requirement for either boat to communicate with the other boat, but it is prudent to do so. If Camelot had called to Blue to head up, or yelled leeward boat or no room, it might have been enough to keep the boats from colliding. If Blue couldn't control her direction, she could have called to Camelot to fall off, that she couldn't steer away, Camelot might have been able to fall off and avoid the crash. She then could have protested Blue. Since both boats broke rules of part 2 of the Racing
Stus-List Fw: Adhesive
I used FRP from HomeDepot Mike S/V Persuasion CC 37 Keel/CB Long Sault -Original Message- From: Jake Brodersen Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 6:17 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Adhesive Joel, I painted the bare plywood. Looks great after five years. I'll post some pics to dropbox when I get a chance. Jake Jake Brodersen CC 35 Mk-III Midnight Mistress Hampton VA -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 9:48 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Adhesive When I rebuilt the access panels I used a 3m spray adhesive to glue the vinyl to the wood. It is already coming unglued. Any recommendation on which adhesive to use? Joel Aronson ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video (Wally Bryant)
I've tried to stay out of this dialog, but I must interject a few observations. First, for Blue's tactician to say Camelot's driver was erratic is merely a feeble attempt to try to shift the blame. Secondly, I know Camelot's helmsman. He is a knowledgeable racer and is very aggressive . That's not erratic. Just before the collision, Camelot came up hard in order to prevent Blue from powering over him. That was his only defense as Blue ignored his previous luff. Fred Hazzard S/V Fury CC 44 Portland, OR From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Tim Goodyear Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 1:04 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video (Wally Bryant) From my view, the tactician on Blue was totally to blame, but maybe not legally (he was not 'captain'), so someone else will get sued for medical costs, which are likely to be substantial. His tactics called for going as close as he possibly could to a boat that had the rights, and the need, to come up. It looked like Blue had (a little) space to go up to the committee boat, so their barging might have paid off, but they were early, so he pushed it even further by calling bow down to the helmsman when overlapped, after which the outcome was fairly certain. I know you wouldn't want to incriminate yourself online, but the film (wide angle makes it hard to say for sure) and the protest findings don't support his 'biggest mistake was not seeing the other boat was erratic and that they might know enough to be dangerous. Sure, a real racer would have shut the door on them earlier, or told them loudly to f#% off out of there, but it was his mistake of directing the helm to a space they had no right to claim that caused it. Tim Mojito CC 35-3 Branford, CT On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:24 PM, djhaug...@juno.com djhaug...@juno.com wrote: Yea but, that Camelot boat was all over the place, he came from the starboard, crossed the bow then nearly hit a 3rd boat, tacked back abruptly right back into the their path, by then they were pinched by that sport fisher. It looked to me they'd have had to change course out around the sport fisher way early to have avoided Camelot, which would have meant some real foresight... but, I know, admittedly, nothing about racing... and still consider myself a new sailor... So, I may be way off base... Danny -- Original Message -- From: OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video (Wally Bryant) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:54:54 -0400 This has been a really good thread, highlighting the risks of casual racing. There are some good lessons and solid reminders of the situation we're in when we do these casual races. I started racing again last year after many years away from it. That made me an experienced but rusty racer, and what's worse, racing amongst folks with a wide variation in experience and acumen. For example on one race I starboarded two boats just after the start, completely in the right, but now realizing in hindsight completely ignorant of the abilities of those skippers and whether they would respond. Although there was no problem at the time, I won't do that again. Years ago we raced against the same competitors week after week and everyone knew everyone else. The crews were generally the same from week to week, even from year to year. It produced very close and well run races. I now realize I cannot expect this beer can stuff to be the same. I have to say a couple things about the video. It does not appear the leeward boat called out in any way. Should they have called hardening up to the windward boat? They did not give any warning of their movements. It didn't look to me like Blue was barging, they were on a close reach. Blues crew were indeed clueless, as was the helmsperson, but the tactician also made mistakes. He appeared to see the other boat but did not do or say enough until it was too late. I think he acknowledged this in his post. No question about windward leeward rule though, Blue was in the wrong but also agree leeward boat seemed to do nothing to avoid the collision. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:26:59 +0100 From: Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video Message-ID: 516819b3.8020...@wbryant.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Yup, it's a bummer about Mike (tactician.) He owns the sail loft in La Cruz and does the morning weather on the local radio net, and is a great guy. Banderas Bay is a major winter cruiser hangout, and the crews on these races are almost always pickup crews that don't know the boat and have never sailed together. Probably not a good time to get aggressive at the start. Wal Chuck S wrote: snip The whole crew
Re: Stus-List Race Video
...if I turned the wheel that aggressively on my 35 I feel certain she would go up, now I have to try that to find out for sure and ruin a perfectly nice beat someday. A few years back racing Calypso double-handed in a fully crewed C/R fleet we found the point at which the mainsail overcame the rudder. The wind was brisk enough for Calypso to be fully powered up, full mainsail and heavy #1 (150%). Short tacking the Bainbridge Island shore to stay out of adverse current, on Port we planned to duck a slightly smaller Stbd tacker. Calypso's co-owner, Michael was driving, I was trimming both sails. As we bore off I had a little difficulty in easing the main about the time a gust rolled through. Calypso heeled enough to stall the rudder. The mainsail took over control and the boat began to round up to windward. I clearly recall the wide eyes in the cockpit of the Stbd tacker as 24,000lbs of angry, foaming at the mouth CC was pointed right at them. Fortunately I got the main eased and Michael pumped the rudder several time to re-establish flow and control in time to pass safely astern of the Stbd tacker. After that close call we throttled back a little and left more space for crossing. Dwight, I recommend practicing this type of windward round up to learn how your 35 MKII handles at the edge of control before a close crossing situation develops. Having your race crew part of the practice to get the feel of a rudder stall and quick rotation to windward. Having some practice will help them concentrate on a quick recovery when time is tight. It can be expensive if a crew freezes instead of easing a sheet. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 3:25 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Blue was close hauled with lots of power, what looks like an uncoordinated crew and in close quarters. She was give way boat and it looks to me like she was barging the line hell bent to get across inside of what looks like the committee boat, and ahead and to windward of the fleet. If she went up hard she either had to tack away or risk ramming what I think is the committee boat. I can't tell if the leeward boat had room to fall off safely to avoid collision with blue without making a collision with the boat below her, looks like she was being taken up too. I heard now up now up now up now up so someone on Blue knew they were being taken up but I don't think the helmsman or the crew acted soon enough or fast enough. The helmsman's effort to steer up seemed ineffective, not much of a rudder on that boat if you ask me. The mainsail trimmer tensioned for more close hauled course and looks like the jib trimmer did the same...seems like the crew did not know how to sail that boat under those conditions in close quarters...they did not appear to know what to expect from the boat and the crew...if I turned the wheel that aggressively on my 35 I feel certain she would go up, now I have to try that to find out for sure and ruin a perfectly nice beat some day. Haven't raced in a while... what is in the rule about barging Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
Martin I don't have a race crew anymore, I don't race my boat and I don't race anymore period. I got all filled up with handicap racing. Under those conditions I think my boat might have a tendency to want to round up.I might have some weather helm but not too much.she would have a tendency to go up into the wind and that would help me to tack away... I think it would be relatively easy to go up and tack if not for another boat in the way, the committee boat in this case. It did not look like they eased the main. I know that I would not have been comfortable on that boat with that crew in close quarters approaching the start line under full power.no trophy is worth that much to me anymore.I have mellowed a bit with age and when I sail now I enjoy it more than racing.race committee telling me where to go and making things as hard as possible on me by allowing other boats to get near me and try to take my wind and slow me down every chance they get etc..not for me anymore Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin DeYoung Sent: April 12, 2013 8:17 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video .if I turned the wheel that aggressively on my 35 I feel certain she would go up, now I have to try that to find out for sure and ruin a perfectly nice beat someday. A few years back racing Calypso double-handed in a fully crewed C/R fleet we found the point at which the mainsail overcame the rudder. The wind was brisk enough for Calypso to be fully powered up, full mainsail and heavy #1 (150%). Short tacking the Bainbridge Island shore to stay out of adverse current, on Port we planned to duck a slightly smaller Stbd tacker. Calypso's co-owner, Michael was driving, I was trimming both sails. As we bore off I had a little difficulty in easing the main about the time a gust rolled through. Calypso heeled enough to stall the rudder. The mainsail took over control and the boat began to round up to windward. I clearly recall the wide eyes in the cockpit of the Stbd tacker as 24,000lbs of angry, foaming at the mouth CC was pointed right at them. Fortunately I got the main eased and Michael pumped the rudder several time to re-establish flow and control in time to pass safely astern of the Stbd tacker. After that close call we throttled back a little and left more space for crossing. Dwight, I recommend practicing this type of windward round up to learn how your 35 MKII handles at the edge of control before a close crossing situation develops. Having your race crew part of the practice to get the feel of a rudder stall and quick rotation to windward. Having some practice will help them concentrate on a quick recovery when time is tight. It can be expensive if a crew freezes instead of easing a sheet. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 3:25 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Blue was close hauled with lots of power, what looks like an uncoordinated crew and in close quarters. She was give way boat and it looks to me like she was barging the line hell bent to get across inside of what looks like the committee boat, and ahead and to windward of the fleet. If she went up hard she either had to tack away or risk ramming what I think is the committee boat. I can't tell if the leeward boat had room to fall off safely to avoid collision with blue without making a collision with the boat below her, looks like she was being taken up too. I heard now up now up now up now up so someone on Blue knew they were being taken up but I don't think the helmsman or the crew acted soon enough or fast enough. The helmsman's effort to steer up seemed ineffective, not much of a rudder on that boat if you ask me. The mainsail trimmer tensioned for more close hauled course and looks like the jib trimmer did the same.seems like the crew did not know how to sail that boat under those conditions in close quarters.they did not appear to know what to expect from the boat and the crew.if I turned the wheel that aggressively on my 35 I feel certain she would go up, now I have to try that to find out for sure and ruin a perfectly nice beat some day. Haven't raced in a while. what is in the rule about barging Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS _ _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5740 - Release Date: 04/12/13 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Stus-List Exploding Battery
Good letter from Jake about an exploding battery on his boat, in Seaworthy Magazine (BoatUS Insurance magazine). Glad everyone was safe, and no damage to your boat. Can that happen to an AGM battery? Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Replacing bow nav light bulb
You guys were spot-on. 2 long screws that can't fall out. I taped a box under it just in case.Of course, Worst Marine didn't have LEDs. Cheap bulbs for now. Thanks all! Joel -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
Good points. Another option: I setup Resolute to singlehand, so I can dump the main myself while steering from behind the wheel. I have three choices, 1) drop the traveller by releasing the windward crosshaul line. That's how we start our turn round the windward mark. Mainsail trimmer or myself, 2) release the 24:1 finetune from either side. That's sweet. 3) reach in front of the wheel and ease the 6:1 mainsheet. This is a little harder. Question: didn't think you needed to ease the main to turn upwind? Am I missing something? Should ease the jib sheet. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Atlantic City, NJ - Original Message - From: dwight veinot dwightvei...@hfx.eastlink.ca To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 7:47:32 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Martin I don’t have a race crew anymore, I don’t race my boat and I don’t race anymore period. I got all filled up with handicap racing. Under those conditions I think my boat might have a tendency to want to round up…I might have some weather helm but not too much…she would have a tendency to go up into the wind and that would help me to tack away... I think it would be relatively easy to go up and tack if not for another boat in the way, the committee boat in this case. It did not look like they eased the main. I know that I would not have been comfortable on that boat with that crew in close quarters approaching the start line under full power…no trophy is worth that much to me anymore…I have mellowed a bit with age and when I sail now I enjoy it more than racing…race committee telling me where to go and making things as hard as possible on me by allowing other boats to get near me and try to take my wind and slow me down every chance they get etc.…not for me anymore Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin DeYoung Sent: April 12, 2013 8:17 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video …if I turned the wheel that aggressively on my 35 I feel certain she would go up, now I have to try that to find out for sure and ruin a perfectly nice beat someday. A few years back racing Calypso double-handed in a fully crewed C/R fleet we found the point at which the mainsail overcame the rudder. The wind was brisk enough for Calypso to be fully powered up, full mainsail and heavy #1 (150%). Short tacking the Bainbridge Island shore to stay out of adverse current, on Port we planned to duck a slightly smaller Stbd tacker. Calypso’s co-owner, Michael was driving, I was trimming both sails. As we bore off I had a little difficulty in easing the main about the time a gust rolled through. Calypso heeled enough to stall the rudder. The mainsail took over control and the boat began to round up to windward. I clearly recall the wide eyes in the cockpit of the Stbd tacker as 24,000lbs of angry, foaming at the mouth CC was pointed right at them. Fortunately I got the main eased and Michael pumped the rudder several time to re-establish flow and control in time to pass safely astern of the Stbd tacker. After that close call we throttled back a little and left more space for crossing. Dwight, I recommend practicing this type of windward round up to learn how your 35 MKII handles at the edge of control before a close crossing situation develops. Having your race crew part of the practice to get the feel of a rudder stall and quick rotation to windward. Having some practice will help them concentrate on a quick recovery when time is tight. It can be expensive if a crew freezes instead of easing a sheet. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 3:25 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Blue was close hauled with lots of power, what looks like an uncoordinated crew and in close quarters. She was give way boat and it looks to me like she was barging the line hell bent to get across inside of what looks like the committee boat, and ahead and to windward of the fleet. If she went up hard she either had to tack away or risk ramming what I think is the committee boat. I can’t tell if the leeward boat had room to fall off safely to avoid collision with blue without making a collision with the boat below her, looks like she was being taken up too. I heard now up now up now up now up so someone on Blue knew they were being taken up but I don’t think the helmsman or the crew acted soon enough or fast enough. The helmsman’s effort to steer up seemed ineffective, not much of a rudder on that boat if you ask me. The mainsail trimmer tensioned for more close hauled course and looks like the jib trimmer did the same…seems like the crew did not know how to sail that boat under those conditions in
Stus-List Fwd: More on Race Collision and Protest Decision
These comments may be relevant regarding the protest results. I did not review the video enough to comment. Perhaps the list might chime in. Charlie Nelson Water Phantom CC 36 XL/kcb Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: From: Bill Kirsch kirsch...@gmail.com Date: April 12, 2013, 3:05:53 PM EDT To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Subject: More on Race Collision and Protest Decision Reply-To: Bill Kirsch kirsch...@gmail.com ODC MEMBERSHIP The message below was sent a couple of days ago to all ODC club members There have been a few interesting e-mails regarding this and those interchanges brought out good points that should be noted: 1. Barging is a term commonly used, however it is not a proper term in the Racing Rules. This is an excellent example of not keeping clear. Barging should not have been referenced. 2. The protest committee’s ruling was that BLUE was scored DNF – Did Not Finish. Several of us take issue with this since BLUE was OCS – On Course Side at the start signal and did not return to start correctly. Therefore how could she be scored DNF? She didn’t start .. At best you’d call her OCS. 3. Since BLUE was ruled as not keeping clear and significant damage to boat and personnel, she should have been scored DSQ – Disqualified. See RRS 64.1 4. Take note that this race occurred in April, 2013. The NOR stated that the race would be run under the RRS of 2009-2012 while the S/I’s stated the RRS of 2013-2016. For the most part ODC has been writing our NOR’s and S/I’s stating that the race is run under the Racing Rules of Sailing. We do not include the year since there are only one set of rules in effect – the current ones. It is possible that a race, say in January, 2013, could be run under the previous rules because the new rule books may not have had time to get to all of the racing community. In that case it would be necessary to specifically state that the rules being used are the previous ones eg: Racing Rules of Sailing 2009-2012. Bill kirsch...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:57 PM Subject: Fw: Fwd: Race Collision and Protest Decision ODC MEMBERSHIP Excellent example of barging and not keeping clear. Ultimate outcome of protest committee follows. Forwarded by Jerry Dasson. Video at start of race Protest Committee Decision following incident: April 1, 2013 – Banderas Bay, Mexico The following is the protest report issued by the Protest Committee in the Banderas Bay Regatta case of Blue vs. Camelot, following a Race Two incident in which Blue tactician Mike Danielson suffered two broken legs. Banderas Bay Race Week 2013 Protest Report March 27, 2013 1. Protest between Blue #7331 (J/160) vs. Camelot #8581 (Hunter 54), and Camelot vs. Blue in Race #2 of the 2013 Banderas Bay Race Week Regatta, March 22, 2013. 2. A hearing was scheduled for the protests at Paradise Village Resort, Nuevo Vallarta, Nayarit, Mexico on March 27, 2013 at 1000 hours. Blue was represented by tactician Mike Danielson, and Camelot was represented by helmsman Craig Shaw. Also present were Dee Cockerham as recording secretary, Dick Markie and Jen Edney who were observers. The protest committee (PC) consisted of Donald Becker, IJ (USA) chair, Jesse Coburn and Robin Stout. 3. The hearing began at 1005 hours. After an initial statement by the PC chair, the representative for Camelot asked for clarification of the definition of an interested party. The PC chair read the definition and stated that none of the members of the PC met the definition. 4. Next the PC addressed the issue of the Notice of Race (NOR) stating that the RRS 2013-2016 applied and the Sailing Instructions (SIs) stating that the RRS 2009-2012 applied. The PC acting under RRS 63.7 applied the NOR rule that the RRS 2013-2016 will govern this protest. 5. The PC then dealt with the validity of the protest. Neither boat hailed “protest” nor displayed a red flag at the time of the incident. Neither boat filed a protest within the time limit specified in the Sailing Instructions (SIs). Both boats filed a written protest on Monday, March 25, 2013. Neither boat notified the other of their intent to protest. Since the PC learned that the incident resulted in injury, the PC extended the time limit under RRS 61.3, protested both boats under RRS 60.3(a)(1), and opened the hearing. 6. Witnesses for the parties were: Blue – Cheryl Sears, helmswoman, and Rob, foredeck. Camelot – Eugenie Russell from Olas Lindas and Bill Lilly from Moontide. The representative of Blue also presented a video from Blue that included the last minute of the starting sequence and the incident. 7. Facts Found: a. The wind speed at the start of Class A, Race 2 was 13-15 knots. b. At approximately one minute to the start, Camelot was sailing on starboard tack at approximately 5 knots approaching the starting
Re: Stus-List New through hull transducer
4200. Joel Aronson 35/3 Annapolis On Apr 12, 2013, at 9:36 PM, jmckay533 jmckay...@yahoo.ca wrote: Good evening. I AM HOPING TO INSTALL A NEW THROUGH HULL TRANSDUCER this weekend. What marine sealant would you suggest? Thank you. John on Oxygen Sent from Samsung tablet Original message From: Brent Driedger bren...@highspeedcrow.ca Date: 04-12-2013 6:58 PM (GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video I tend to agree Dwight. That's a gripping video and reminds me of a very similar situation I got myself into last year minus the crushed legs. I was being too aggressive, boats touched and although no protest came of it, I was at fault and should have bailed when I was getting squeezed out of the pack before the committee boat. On the deck after the race much discussion was held and I insisted I could not change course for I would have rammed the committee boat but later when the photos came out I realized I had plenty of time to abandon the start and not look like a knob. The point is at speed within lengths of the line and adrenaline is up with a bunch of fast boats a nose blow apart, it's easy to make a decision that you wished you hadn't after the fact and unfortunately the only solution to this is experience. On the plus side the event was educational, provided lively beer talk and no damage was done. Brent 27-5 Lake Winnipeg Sent from my iPhone On 2013-04-12, at 5:25 PM, dwight veinot dwightvei...@hfx.eastlink.ca wrote: Blue was close hauled with lots of power, what looks like an uncoordinated crew and in close quarters. She was give way boat and it looks to me like she was barging the line hell bent to get across inside of what looks like the committee boat, and ahead and to windward of the fleet. If she went up hard she either had to tack away or risk ramming what I think is the committee boat. I can’t tell if the leeward boat had room to fall off safely to avoid collision with blue without making a collision with the boat below her, looks like she was being taken up too. I heard now up now up now up now up so someone on Blue knew they were being taken up but I don’t think the helmsman or the crew acted soon enough or fast enough. The helmsman’s effort to steer up seemed ineffective, not much of a rudder on that boat if you ask me. The mainsail trimmer tensioned for more close hauled course and looks like the jib trimmer did the same…seems like the crew did not know how to sail that boat under those conditions in close quarters…they did not appear to know what to expect from the boat and the crew…if I turned the wheel that aggressively on my 35 I feel certain she would go up, now I have to try that to find out for sure and ruin a perfectly nice beat some day. Haven’t raced in a while… what is in the rule about barging Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS -- *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.comcnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Alan Bergen *Sent:* April 12, 2013 6:36 PM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Race Video After the preparatory signal (boats are now racing and must sail by the racing rules) but before the starting signal, the leeward boat can sail all the way up to head to wind. After the starting signal, she cannot sail higher than close hauled. Boats must still avoid contact if at all possible. Crossing the starting line has no effect on how rules 11 and 14 are applied. Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR Alan, Does Dave Perry’s 2016 RRoS book clarify the difference, if any, between before the start and after crossing the starting line regarding Rule 11 and 14? It has been a while since I read Dave’s last RRoS book but I recall something about the right-of-way boat having more flexibility before the starting gun. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.comcnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Alan Bergen *Sent:* Friday, April 12, 2013 11:31 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Race Video Blue was allowed to sail her course until she was the give-way boat. As soon as she overlapped Camelot, she was the give-way boat, and had to keep clear. When a give-way boat is so close to a right-of-way boat, such that the right-of-way boat cannot turn in either direction without immediately touching the give-way boat, the give-way boat has violated her obligation to keep clear. They do not have to touch in order to prove that Blue did not keep clear. See Dave Perry's Understanding The Racing Rules of Sailing through 2016, page 96. In addition, the right-of-way boat must take the appropriate action to avoid hitting the give-way boat, when it appears that the give-way boat is not going to keep clear, after which she can protest the give-way boat. There is no requirement for either boat to communicate
Re: Stus-List Race Video
Instead of easing the mainsheet, it's usually easier and faster to ease the traveler. It's also faster returning the main to it's proper position after you regain control . In that kind of situation, It's helpful to get the crew on the rail on the windward quarter. Alan Bergen CC 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR - Original Message - …if I turned the wheel that aggressively on my 35 I feel certain she would go up, now I have to try that to find out for sure and ruin a perfectly nice beat someday. A few years back racing Calypso double-handed in a fully crewed C/R fleet we found the point at which the mainsail overcame the rudder. The wind was brisk enough for Calypso to be fully powered up, full mainsail and heavy #1 (150%). Short tacking the Bainbridge Island shore to stay out of adverse current, on Port we planned to duck a slightly smaller Stbd tacker. Calypso’s co-owner, Michael was driving, I was trimming both sails. As we bore off I had a little difficulty in easing the main about the time a gust rolled through. Calypso heeled enough to stall the rudder. The mainsail took over control and the boat began to round up to windward. I clearly recall the wide eyes in the cockpit of the Stbd tacker as 24,000lbs of angry, foaming at the mouth CC was pointed right at them. Fortunately I got the main eased and Michael pumped the rudder several time to re-establish flow and control in time to pass safely astern of the Stbd tacker. After that close call we throttled back a little and left more space for crossing. Dwight, I recommend practicing this type of windward round up to learn how your 35 MKII handles at the edge of control before a close crossing situation develops. Having your race crew part of the practice to get the feel of a rudder stall and quick rotation to windward. Having some practice will help them concentrate on a quick recovery when time is tight. It can be expensive if a crew freezes instead of easing a sheet. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
I'm with you there Chuck, there were no sail trim issues here (apart from maybe the main not being brought in quick enough to help the turn up to close hauled, or all sails flogged to slow them down) - this was all on the tactician and helm. Tim On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Chuck S cscheaf...@comcast.net wrote: Good points. Another option: I setup Resolute to singlehand, so I can dump the main myself while steering from behind the wheel. I have three choices, 1) drop the traveller by releasing the windward crosshaul line. That's how we start our turn round the windward mark. Mainsail trimmer or myself, 2) release the 24:1 finetune from either side. That's sweet. 3) reach in front of the wheel and ease the 6:1 mainsheet. This is a little harder. Question: didn't think you needed to ease the main to turn upwind? Am I missing something? Should ease the jib sheet. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Atlantic City, NJ -- *From: *dwight veinot dwightvei...@hfx.eastlink.ca *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Sent: *Friday, April 12, 2013 7:47:32 PM *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Race Video Martin I don’t have a race crew anymore, I don’t race my boat and I don’t race anymore period. I got all filled up with handicap racing. Under those conditions I think my boat might have a tendency to want to round up…I might have some weather helm but not too much…she would have a tendency to go up into the wind and that would help me to tack away... I think it would be relatively easy to go up and tack if not for another boat in the way, the committee boat in this case. It did not look like they eased the main. I know that I would not have been comfortable on that boat with that crew in close quarters approaching the start line under full power…no trophy is worth that much to me anymore…I have mellowed a bit with age and when I sail now I enjoy it more than racing…race committee telling me where to go and making things as hard as possible on me by allowing other boats to get near me and try to take my wind and slow me down every chance they get etc.…not for me anymore Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS -- *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Martin DeYoung *Sent:* April 12, 2013 8:17 PM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Race Video …if I turned the wheel that aggressively on my 35 I feel certain she would go up, now I have to try that to find out for sure and ruin a perfectly nice beat someday. A few years back racing Calypso double-handed in a fully crewed C/R fleet we found the point at which the mainsail overcame the rudder. The wind was brisk enough for Calypso to be fully powered up, full mainsail and heavy #1 (150%). Short tacking the Bainbridge Island shore to stay out of adverse current, on Port we planned to duck a slightly smaller Stbd tacker. Calypso’s co-owner, Michael was driving, I was trimming both sails. As we bore off I had a little difficulty in easing the main about the time a gust rolled through. Calypso heeled enough to stall the rudder. The mainsail took over control and the boat began to round up to windward. I clearly recall the wide eyes in the cockpit of the Stbd tacker as 24,000lbs of angry, foaming at the mouth CC was pointed right at them. Fortunately I got the main eased and Michael pumped the rudder several time to re-establish flow and control in time to pass safely astern of the Stbd tacker. After that close call we throttled back a little and left more space for crossing. Dwight, I recommend practicing this type of windward round up to learn how your 35 MKII handles at the edge of control before a close crossing situation develops. Having your race crew part of the practice to get the feel of a rudder stall and quick rotation to windward. Having some practice will help them concentrate on a quick recovery when time is tight. It can be expensive if a crew freezes instead of easing a sheet. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *dwight veinot *Sent:* Friday, April 12, 2013 3:25 PM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Race Video Blue was close hauled with lots of power, what looks like an uncoordinated crew and in close quarters. She was give way boat and it looks to me like she was barging the line hell bent to get across inside of what looks like the committee boat, and ahead and to windward of the fleet. If she went up hard she either had to tack away or risk ramming what I think is the committee boat. I can’t tell if the leeward boat had room to fall off safely to avoid collision with blue without making a collision with the boat below her, looks like she was being taken up too. I heard now up now up now up now up so someone on
Re: Stus-List Race Video
The preamble to section 2 makes the rules applicable from the time that boats are in the start area with intent to race until they are in the area after the race. And don’t forget that Blue appears to have also violated rule 12 before she established an overlap of Camelot. The question about more flexibility may have to do with “proper course”. In certain circumstances after the start, the leeward boat cannot come head to wind – above her proper course - unless she crosses behind the windward boat. But I believe that the “Proper course” rule (#16) was rewritten in 2009 to limit when and how it comes into play. I also think it used to be in Section C, where the rules do not apply until after the start. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin DeYoung Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 4:26 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Alan, Does Dave Perry’s 2016 RRoS book clarify the difference, if any, between before the start and after crossing the starting line regarding Rule 11 and 14? It has been a while since I read Dave’s last RRoS book but I recall something about the right-of-way boat having more flexibility before the starting gun. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
Rule 21.1 would seem to call on the boat approaching the start area after her start time to keep clear of other boats. But Calypso would be constrained by the rules in Section 2 because she is in the area with INTENT to race. When I write sailing instructions, I normally write instructions for boats starting more than 1 miute after their start signal to keep clear of boats in the next start sequence. I think there used to be a recommended paragraph in the model sailing instructions that are part of th US Sailing rules. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin DeYoung Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 5:23 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video On a related RRoS starting issue: During a pursuit race (timed start based on ratings, slowest first), if a slower rated boat's assigned start time has passed but they have not crossed the starting line (light air, adverse current) which part of the RRoS applies as Calypso enters the start line area within 4 minutes of the assigned start time? ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
I will admit that I have sometimes used the Tonnage Rule when racing my 38 to gain an advantage against the typically smaller boats in my area. But there have been times like you mention, Wal, when someone pisses me off in situations where the right of way rules are not really important and may be contrary to good seamanship. I sometimes recall a scene in a movie I can't recall right now. Two young girls in a small import zip into a parking space in front of an older woman in a big a##ed Buick, and taunt her with We're younger and more aggressive. After the other woman slams her land yacht into their import, she says Yes. But I'm older and have better insurance. Never done it, but it would be satisfying. Rick Brass -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Wally Bryant Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 6:53 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Yeah, I actually get really annoyed at folks with Racer Boats who play right-of-way games. One time some jerk in a J boat tried to run me into a pylon of the Golden Gate Bridge, even though I had right-of-way. I just wanted to tack, but he wouldn't let me, so I finally luffed up and let him go, so I could tack over behind him. Then the moron tacked right behind me to steal my wind, and his whole crew cheered like they had won something. Short guys on big boats... ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
My club has a Rat Race. - approximately 15 miles run as a pursuit race. The trophy is a large stuffed rat on a wooden plinth. The winner is REQUIRED to display the trophy prominently at his / her house for the year and bring it on board for the following years race to present to the new winner! -- Jonathan Trade Show Services Cell: (203) 395 0225 www.tradeshowservicesusa.com On Apr 12, 2013, at 15:47, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: Stuffed animals. Go to a big toy store, buy a stuffed lion, tiger or bear, and chop off its head. Then tack it down to a mahogany plaque. Make sure the plaque is big enough to hold enough little brass tags for the next 50 years, because it will be a trophy that no one will forget and eventually everyone will want. Wal ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
I don’t think you’re missing anything. I’ve been trying to understand the comment that the main being trimmed in tight could have overwhelmed the steering. I may be missing something, but 45 years of sailing tells me I’m not. Blue was close hauled on STBD, with the main in tight. That means weather helm – or at best neutral helm. Just 10 or 15 seconds before the collision you see the helmsman make a big wheel movement to turn down, which I suspect was to overcome the weather helm. Had he left the wheel alone (or made smaller steering correction) the boat would have come up on her own. The other comments describing the main overcoming the steering (and this has probably happened at one time or another to all of us) have all described crossing/ducking situations, when the main caused the boat to turn up when it was undesirable. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 9:42 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Question: didn't think you needed to ease the main to turn upwind? Am I missing something? Should ease the jib sheet. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Atlantic City, NJ ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Racing prizes
As I type this I'm looking at a 12 foot mantle over my fireplace with a collection of nut dishes, engraved glass plates, plaques, mugs, and photos I've won over the years. Most of the stuff falls under the heading of dust collector. There is one engraved silver tray that has my name on it as Sailor of the Year that I do value (An ex girlfriend took all the silver plates with the boat name on them when she left me to move to Texas. Hope her new husband is pissed off every time she uses one of them.) There is a plaque with a half-hull of my boat on it that , that was purchased from Noble Awards at a pretty reasonable price (I was Fleet Captain that year, so I know.) It has value to me, as I presume it did for the other series winners that year, because my own boat is on the plaque. The other awards on the shelf that are special are silver picture frames that contain a close up photo of the boat while racing with a group photo of the crew superimposed in the corner. On the boat are a gaggle of flags I've won over the years, which I never fly at regattas. I'm afraid I'd be making a statement with the flag halyard to which my on course performance would not live up. Below, on a bulkhead in the cabin, are a few stickers from races that the boat has been in dating back as far as the Great Lakes in the late 70's. I'm pretty happy that a couple of the local events have started giving out the decals/stickers again. I think they are a great reminder of good times. Regarding the pictures and decals, it is almost amazing what you can do these days with a digital camera, an ink jet or laser printer, and some special stock from Staples. These type of awards are inexpensive, personalized, and the images can be reproduced and shared with your crew. Rick Brass -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Knowles Rich Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 1:05 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Racing prizes On a slightly different racing tack: Prizes What does your club do for the weekly races, series and regattas? Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Race Video
A few years back I did ask the organizing club (Sloop Tavern Yacht Club) whether they were going to add something in the race instructions to address the different starting situations presented with the pursuit race. I did F up a pursuit race start one year in light wind and adverse current. We (double-handed)spent 15 minutes maneuvering to stay out of the way of other competitors and clear my OCS. The standard RRoS worked fine in that situation. I going to double check the 2013 Race to the Straits race instructs right now. I need to get this race right as another 197X CC 43 is entered. Carmanah is hull #2, Calypso is hull #1 and both boats raced against each other in the 70's. Martin Calypso 1970 CC 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] on behalf of Rick Brass [rickbr...@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 8:03 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video Rule 21.1 would seem to call on the boat approaching the start area after her start time to keep clear of other boats. But Calypso would be constrained by the rules in Section 2 because she is in the area with INTENT to race. When I write sailing instructions, I normally write instructions for boats starting more than 1 miute after their start signal to keep clear of boats in the next start sequence. I think there used to be a recommended paragraph in the model sailing instructions that are part of th US Sailing rules. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin DeYoung Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 5:23 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Race Video On a related RRoS starting issue: During a pursuit race (timed start based on ratings, slowest first), if a slower rated boat’s assigned start time has passed but they have not crossed the starting line (light air, adverse current) which part of the RRoS applies as Calypso enters the start line area within 4 minutes of the assigned start time? ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
