date:20160608

I completely agree that you should do your best not to hit them, but the
colregs do not recognize common sense as a legal justification for
anything. That is true of most of law, on land as well as on sea. You
are obligated to do as the law says, not as you feel about what it says.
When someone "does their own thing", it leads to uncertainty, and that
can lead to problems. Others depend on everyone following the same rules
in the same way so they all know what to expect. That is why, among
other things, the stand on vessel is required to maintain course and
speed and not start zigging and zagging. :-)

Bill Bina

On 6/8/2016 2:39 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List wrote:
Manual propelled vessels and swimmers don't have to be listed in the
colregs in order for them to qualify as privileged. Common sense
tells me that when approaching them in a sail or power boat, they are
privileged and I am burdened.

Alan Bergen

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List
> wrote:

They are not part of the pecking order, and I do not believe
human-powered mechanisms count as "propelled by machinery"
anywhere in the colregs. The rig on a sailboat is also machinery
in that sense. It's not a winning argument. Dictionary definitions
have no bearing on definitions in the colregs. :-)

As I said, back when I first learned the colregs, seaplanes did
not count as vessels in the pecking order and had no status. They
were required to keep clear, and not interfere with any vessel
listed in the pecking order, because they were not listed. If you
aren't on the list, you don't count! I think seaplanes finally got
recognized in the 1972 revision. Odd numbered navaids used to be
black barrels!

Bill Bina

On 6/8/2016 2:00 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List wrote:

Bill,

You are correct that they are not mentioned, but they are still
vessels: (a) The word “vessel” includes every description of
water craft, including nondisplacement craft, WIG craft and
seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of
transportation on water.

Are they "powered" by paddles/oars etc? (b) The term
“power-driven vessel” means any vessel propelled by machinery.

Joel

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List
> wrote:

The Colregs do not include rowboats, kayaks, canoes and
paddleboards in the pecking order, which means they have no
specific priority over other vessels. There was a time, when
seaplanes were not included either. Seaplanes were obligated
to avoid interfering with any other vessel. Swimmers,
likewise have no status in the pecking order. Yeah, Rule 2
says do whatever you can to avoid any collision, but vessels
not in the pecking order are obligated to avoid interfering
with all other vessels in all situations. They are never the
"stand on vessel"

The colregs are available to anyone who needs to know, and a
copy should be aboard every vessel.

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.navcen.uscg.gov_pdf_navrules_navrules.pdf=DQMD-g=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI=9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ=A5leOeaFFvYJdgyEOTASgNOEPo_Aqc7hrlPISGZmzrg=b4mQFnG_hr3xRx2po0XHTzLkdRG7BtNVzyYK2nAMrOw=>>

Bill Bina

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Re: Stus-List (no subject)

For a folding prop, you do have to stop the shaft in order for it to fold.
You also have to center it (blades in the horizontal position) for both of
them to fold.  With feathering props, you shift into reverse, the shaft
turns and the prop feathers.

Alan Bergen

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 11:20 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Gary,
>
> I believe the list has addressed this before but I'll throw it out there
> again.
>
> A freewheeling prop has less resistance than a fixed one.  There are a few
> assumptions being make in that statement.
> *Fixed blade prop
> *No shaft driven generator/alternator.
>
> The navy does it regularly.  As a throttleman onboard an aircraft carrier
> with 4 shafts, I can tell you, a trailing shaft always required less
> compensation than a fixed shaft.  The only reason we ever stopped the shaft
> was to do maintenance/repairs on the main engine or because of a shaft seal
> failure.  The emergency shaft seal would be ruptured if the shaft was
> allowed to spin.
>
> As for our boats with featuring/folding props you have to stop the shaft
> in order to allow the prop to feather/fold.  As others have mentioned you
> may have to shift into reverse to feather the prop.  Staying in reverse
> ensures that the prop doesn't "re-feather" and start spinning again.
> Pretty unlikely.  I occasionally forget to shift into neutral when
> starting... Oops!
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Jun 8, 2016 9:48 AM, "Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Aside from drag, I don't see what harm having it is neutral could do to
>> the mechanical systems.  That said, if I recall correctly, the MarTec prop
>> folks suggest putting it in reverse temporarily to rotate the prop blades
>> into a neutral position...but that could just be something I imagined.
>>
>> Tom Buscaglia
>> S/V Alera
>> 1990 C 37+/40
>> Vashon WA
>> P 206.463.9200
>>
>>
>> > On Jun 8, 2016, at 9:06 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>> >
>> > Message: 6
>> > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 09:05:42 -0400
>> > From: David Knecht 
>> > To: CnC CnC discussion list 
>> > Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while
>> >sailing?
>> > Message-ID: 
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >
>> > Mine recommends reverse but also says the transmission will be damaged
>> if left in forward.  Not sure why.  Dave
>> >
>> >> On Jun 8, 2016, at 7:16 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The answer may depend on what make of transmission you have, but my
>> Hurth transmission recommends reverse.  If your prop is spinning in
>> forward, I would suggest that is not good.  I would recommend reverse.
>> Some transmission, I'm told, have the oil pump on the input shaft, so there
>> is no lubrication when the engine is stopped.  That's one reason you want
>> to make sure the prop is not free-wheeling.  The other reason, of course,
>> is drag.
>> >>
>> >> Gary
>> >> S/V Kaylarah
>> >> '90 C 37+
>> >> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
>> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

Common sense and government regulation?    Yeah, we all know to avoid
killing swimmers and paddleboarders, but not because the regs tell us that.

Joel

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:39 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Manual propelled vessels and swimmers don't have to be listed in the
> colregs in order for them to qualify as privileged.  Common sense tells me
> that when approaching them in a sail or power boat, they are privileged and
> I am burdened.
>
> Alan Bergen
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> They are not part of the pecking order, and I do not believe
>> human-powered mechanisms count as "propelled by machinery" anywhere in the
>> colregs. The rig on a sailboat is also machinery in that sense. It's not a
>> winning argument. Dictionary definitions have no bearing on definitions in
>> the colregs. :-)
>>
>> As I said, back when I first learned the colregs, seaplanes did not count
>> as vessels in the pecking order and had no status. They were required to
>> keep clear, and not interfere with any vessel listed in the pecking order,
>> because they were not listed. If you aren't on the list, you don't count! I
>> think seaplanes finally got recognized in the 1972 revision. Odd numbered
>> navaids used to be black barrels!
>>
>> Bill Bina
>>
>> On 6/8/2016 2:00 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List wrote:
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> You are correct that they are not mentioned, but they are still
>> vessels: (a) The word “vessel” includes every description of water craft,
>> including nondisplacement craft, WIG craft and seaplanes, used or capable
>> of being used as a means of transportation on water.
>>
>> Are they "powered" by paddles/oars etc? (b) The term “power-driven
>> vessel” means any vessel propelled by machinery.
>>
>> Joel
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Colregs do not include rowboats, kayaks, canoes and paddleboards in
>>> the pecking order, which means they have no specific priority over other
>>> vessels. There was a time, when seaplanes were not included either.
>>> Seaplanes were obligated to avoid interfering with any other vessel.
>>> Swimmers, likewise have no status in the pecking order. Yeah, Rule 2 says
>>> do whatever you can to avoid any collision, but vessels not in the pecking
>>> order are obligated to avoid interfering with all other vessels in all
>>> situations. They are never the "stand on vessel"
>>>
>>> The colregs are available to anyone who needs to know, and a copy should
>>> be aboard every vessel.
>>>
>>> >> 
>>> >
>>>
>>> Bill Bina
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
>> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

Manual propelled vessels and swimmers don't have to be listed in the
colregs in order for them to qualify as privileged.  Common sense tells me
that when approaching them in a sail or power boat, they are privileged and
I am burdened.

Alan Bergen

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> They are not part of the pecking order, and I do not believe human-powered
> mechanisms count as "propelled by machinery" anywhere in the colregs. The
> rig on a sailboat is also machinery in that sense. It's not a winning
> argument. Dictionary definitions have no bearing on definitions in the
> colregs. :-)
>
> As I said, back when I first learned the colregs, seaplanes did not count
> as vessels in the pecking order and had no status. They were required to
> keep clear, and not interfere with any vessel listed in the pecking order,
> because they were not listed. If you aren't on the list, you don't count! I
> think seaplanes finally got recognized in the 1972 revision. Odd numbered
> navaids used to be black barrels!
>
> Bill Bina
>
> On 6/8/2016 2:00 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> You are correct that they are not mentioned, but they are still
> vessels: (a) The word “vessel” includes every description of water craft,
> including nondisplacement craft, WIG craft and seaplanes, used or capable
> of being used as a means of transportation on water.
>
> Are they "powered" by paddles/oars etc? (b) The term “power-driven vessel”
> means any vessel propelled by machinery.
>
> Joel
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> The Colregs do not include rowboats, kayaks, canoes and paddleboards in
>> the pecking order, which means they have no specific priority over other
>> vessels. There was a time, when seaplanes were not included either.
>> Seaplanes were obligated to avoid interfering with any other vessel.
>> Swimmers, likewise have no status in the pecking order. Yeah, Rule 2 says
>> do whatever you can to avoid any collision, but vessels not in the pecking
>> order are obligated to avoid interfering with all other vessels in all
>> situations. They are never the "stand on vessel"
>>
>> The colregs are available to anyone who needs to know, and a copy should
>> be aboard every vessel.
>>
>> > 
>> >
>>
>> Bill Bina
>>
>>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while

2016-06-08 Thread Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List

The prop shaft generators were fairly popular in the last century (when I 
learned to sail)

Marek

From: S Thomas via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 13:24
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: S Thomas 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while

I don't see how leaving the transmission in gear can hurt, provided that the 
shaft does not turn, unless the clutches are somehow prone to getting stuck. 
Perhaps that is something that could happen on a long passage? 
It always seemed to me that free wheeling was just unnecessary wear and tear, 
never mind the drag. I intend to continue putting it in reverse when sailing. 

I met an engineer in Bahamas a couple of years ago who had built an alternator 
around his prop shaft, and free wheeled it to charge the batteries when 
sailing. He had the stator tied with small diameter line that was intended to 
break if the rotor was to somehow get jammed with the stator. Reminded me of 
those centrifugal emergency bilge pumps that can be installed around propeller 
shafts. No bearings required, just very careful alignment. They act as a 
not-very-good bilge blower unless the boat is flooding. 

Steve Thomas
C MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

C
Merritt Island, FL

  - Original Message - 
  From: Gary Russell via CnC-List 
  To: C List 
  Cc: Gary Russell 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 11:52
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while

  Dave, 
   Using your argument, then reverse with a folding prop should not be a 
problem.
  Gary
  S/V Kaylarah

  ~~~_/)~~

  On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Dave Syer via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Hi All,

Have seen question pop up a few times.   Does anyone know the "why" 
involved in Yanmar's recommendation of neutral?  
My thoughts, having had to disassemble and deglaze the cones on my Kanzaki 
'box:
- If in neutral and the shaft is rotating you wear bearings, stuffing box, 
shaft, but you do not transmit any load to the gearbox, clutch, crank. mounts 
etc.   
-If the shaft is not rotating you transmit some load via the drivetrain, 
esp with a fixed prop..
- IF the gear is engaged AND the shaft is rotating, (whether forward or 
reverse) you risk polishing/glazing the mating clutch surfaces, which are 
touching but are not forced together by the thrust load (the opposite in fact, 
in fwd).  This is indeed debilitating wear, and is well worth avoiding. 
I'm not an expert but the latter case is the only thing that makes sense to 
me.   
Thoughts?

Dave

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 07:04:32 -0700
From: Paul Baker 
To: 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while
sailing?
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

It depends on your transmission and engine. Yanmar had a bulletin a while 
back for their engines with Kanzaki transmissions stating that they should 
always be in neutral when sailing. Damage or wear to the transmission would 
occur otherwise.
Cheers,
Paul.

> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:36:50 -0400
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: ghnewt...@gmail.com
> 
> Which gear is recommended (forward or reverse) while sailing? When the 
transmission is in forward I can feel the shaft turning while sailing. When it 
is in reverse I don't feel it. Which is preferred?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> ___

___

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Re: Stus-List (no subject)

2016-06-08 Thread Josh Muckley via CnC-List

Gary,

I believe the list has addressed this before but I'll throw it out there
again.

A freewheeling prop has less resistance than a fixed one.  There are a few
assumptions being make in that statement.
*Fixed blade prop
*No shaft driven generator/alternator.

The navy does it regularly.  As a throttleman onboard an aircraft carrier
with 4 shafts, I can tell you, a trailing shaft always required less
compensation than a fixed shaft.  The only reason we ever stopped the shaft
was to do maintenance/repairs on the main engine or because of a shaft seal
failure.  The emergency shaft seal would be ruptured if the shaft was
allowed to spin.

As for our boats with featuring/folding props you have to stop the shaft in
order to allow the prop to feather/fold.  As others have mentioned you may
have to shift into reverse to feather the prop.  Staying in reverse ensures
that the prop doesn't "re-feather" and start spinning again.  Pretty
unlikely.  I occasionally forget to shift into neutral when starting...
Oops!

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Jun 8, 2016 9:48 AM, "Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Aside from drag, I don't see what harm having it is neutral could do to
> the mechanical systems.  That said, if I recall correctly, the MarTec prop
> folks suggest putting it in reverse temporarily to rotate the prop blades
> into a neutral position...but that could just be something I imagined.
>
> Tom Buscaglia
> S/V Alera
> 1990 C 37+/40
> Vashon WA
> P 206.463.9200
>
>
> > On Jun 8, 2016, at 9:06 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 09:05:42 -0400
> > From: David Knecht 
> > To: CnC CnC discussion list 
> > Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while
> >sailing?
> > Message-ID: 
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Mine recommends reverse but also says the transmission will be damaged
> if left in forward.  Not sure why.  Dave
> >
> >> On Jun 8, 2016, at 7:16 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> The answer may depend on what make of transmission you have, but my
> Hurth transmission recommends reverse.  If your prop is spinning in
> forward, I would suggest that is not good.  I would recommend reverse.
> Some transmission, I'm told, have the oil pump on the input shaft, so there
> is no lubrication when the engine is stopped.  That's one reason you want
> to make sure the prop is not free-wheeling.  The other reason, of course,
> is drag.
> >>
> >> Gary
> >> S/V Kaylarah
> >> '90 C 37+
> >> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> >>
> >>
> >> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

They are not part of the pecking order, and I do not believe 
human-powered mechanisms count as "propelled by machinery" anywhere in 
the colregs. The rig on a sailboat is also machinery in that sense. It's 
not a winning argument. Dictionary definitions have no bearing on 
definitions in the colregs. :-)


As I said, back when I first learned the colregs, seaplanes did not 
count as vessels in the pecking order and had no status. They were 
required to keep clear, and not interfere with any vessel listed in the 
pecking order, because they were not listed. If you aren't on the list, 
you don't count! I think seaplanes finally got recognized in the 1972 
revision. Odd numbered navaids used to be black barrels!


Bill Bina


On 6/8/2016 2:00 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List wrote:

Bill,

You are correct that they are not mentioned, but they are still 
vessels: (a) The word “vessel” includes every description of water 
craft, including nondisplacement craft, WIG craft and seaplanes, used 
or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.


Are they "powered" by paddles/oars etc? (b) The term “power-driven 
vessel” means any vessel propelled by machinery.


Joel

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List 
> wrote:


The Colregs do not include rowboats, kayaks, canoes and
paddleboards in the pecking order, which means they have no
specific priority over other vessels. There was a time, when
seaplanes were not included either. Seaplanes were obligated to
avoid interfering with any other vessel. Swimmers, likewise have
no status in the pecking order. Yeah, Rule 2 says do whatever you
can to avoid any collision, but vessels not in the pecking order
are obligated to avoid interfering with all other vessels in all
situations. They are never the "stand on vessel"

The colregs are available to anyone who needs to know, and a copy
should be aboard every vessel.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navrules/navrules.pdf>>

Bill Bina




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Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

Bill,

You are correct that they are not mentioned, but they are still
vessels: (a) The word “vessel” includes every description of water craft,
including nondisplacement craft, WIG craft and seaplanes, used or capable
of being used as a means of transportation on water.

Are they "powered" by paddles/oars etc? (b) The term “power-driven vessel”
means any vessel propelled by machinery.

Joel

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> The Colregs do not include rowboats, kayaks, canoes and paddleboards in
> the pecking order, which means they have no specific priority over other
> vessels. There was a time, when seaplanes were not included either.
> Seaplanes were obligated to avoid interfering with any other vessel.
> Swimmers, likewise have no status in the pecking order. Yeah, Rule 2 says
> do whatever you can to avoid any collision, but vessels not in the pecking
> order are obligated to avoid interfering with all other vessels in all
> situations. They are never the "stand on vessel"
>
> The colregs are available to anyone who needs to know, and a copy should
> be aboard every vessel.
>
> 
>
> Bill Bina
>
>
>
> On 6/8/2016 1:33 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List wrote:
>
> It seems to me that there are a number of people on this list who don't
> know the rules.  Perhaps it's time to read Chapman's "Piloting, Seamanship
> and Small Boat Handling".  The pecking order is:  rowboats (including
> kayaks, canoes, paddle boards), sailboats, powerboats.  Then there are
> exceptions:  tug pulling a barge moves up the pecking order; overtaking
> boat moves down the pecking order and I'm sure there are more.
>
> Alan Bergen
> 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

The Colregs do not include rowboats, kayaks, canoes and paddleboards in 
the pecking order, which means they have no specific priority over other 
vessels. There was a time, when seaplanes were not included either. 
Seaplanes were obligated to avoid interfering with any other vessel. 
Swimmers, likewise have no status in the pecking order. Yeah, Rule 2 
says do whatever you can to avoid any collision, but vessels not in the 
pecking order are obligated to avoid interfering with all other vessels 
in all situations. They are never the "stand on vessel"


The colregs are available to anyone who needs to know, and a copy should 
be aboard every vessel.




Bill Bina



On 6/8/2016 1:33 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List wrote:
It seems to me that there are a number of people on this list who 
don't know the rules.  Perhaps it's time to read Chapman's "Piloting, 
Seamanship and Small Boat Handling".  The pecking order is:  rowboats 
(including kayaks, canoes, paddle boards), sailboats, powerboats. Then 
there are exceptions:  tug pulling a barge moves up the pecking order; 
overtaking boat moves down the pecking order and I'm sure there are more.


Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR



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Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

I haven't seen my response to this thread, so here it is again:  A
transmission has to be put in reverse for a feathering prop to feather.
Then leave it in reverse.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:49 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> My Universal diesel manual for Hurth HBW tranny says freewheeling won't
> hurt the tranny.  It is moot on whether to lock it.
>
> From marinedieseldirect.com
> 
> for Hurth trannies:  "DO NOT LEAVE GEAR IN FORWARD WHEN SAILING. GEAR
> MUST BE IN NEUTRAL FOR FREE WHEELING OR SHIFTED INTO REVERSE TO LOCK
> PROPELLER WHILE SAILING."
>
> I always put Touche's tranny in reverse.  It has a Martec 2 blade folder.
>
> Dennis C.
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

It seems to me that there are a number of people on this list who don't
know the rules.  Perhaps it's time to read Chapman's "Piloting, Seamanship
and Small Boat Handling".  The pecking order is:  rowboats (including
kayaks, canoes, paddle boards), sailboats, powerboats.  Then there are
exceptions:  tug pulling a barge moves up the pecking order; overtaking
boat moves down the pecking order and I'm sure there are more.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> From Urban Dictionary:
>
> dufus
> 
> dummy, fool, idiot
> OR
>
> doofus
> 
>
> Someone who hasn't got a clue!
> They live in blissful ignorance of the world, fashion, personal hygiene
> and social skills.
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>
> On Jun 8, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> BTW, exactly how do you spell the word/term pronounced “doo-fuss”?
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing? Confusion reigns...

If the shaft is spinning and it is in neutral then the cone is not engaged
and is not wearing.

Joel

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Richard N. Bush via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I thought I was following all this but now I'm confused; in regards to the
> Kanzaki, (which I have), if the Yanmar instruction is to have the gear in
> neutral; isn't that allowing the shaft to spin and cause the very problem
> Rick points out?
> (I have left the emails below which include the Yanmar Bulletin and Rick's
> explanation to allow reference); help me out here!  and thanks to all
>
> Richard
> 1985 C 37 CB: Ohio River, Mile 584.4;
>
> Richard N. Bush
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
> 502-584-7255
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list 
> Cc: Rick Brass 
> Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 1:10 pm
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while
> sailing?
>
> The point is that the engine and any gears in the transmission are not
> turning, but the prop shaft will be rotating in the forward direction. So
> the clutch plate that transmits power to the prop shaft will be turning,
> with very light pressure between the drive plate and the clutch surface
> (which, IIRC, on a Kanzaki is a double ended cone?). That leads to glazing
> of the drive and driven plates, rapid clutch wear, and premature
> transmission rebuild.
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Gary Russell via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 08, 2016 11:49 AM
> *To:* C List 
> *Cc:* Gary Russell 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while
> sailing?
>
> How can a transmission in reverse (gears not turning) cause wear?  I'm
> dumb-founded.
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Advisory Number: MSA08-003:
>
> DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
> TO: All Marine Distributors
> SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS:
>
> All Sailboat Engines
>
> We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while
> sailing with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar
> requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission
> shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or
> sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar's Limited
> Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to
> the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while
> sailing.
>
> If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing,
> either a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be
> used. However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection,
> installation, or operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine
> service advisory "MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection" for
> additional information.
>
> If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a
> Customer Support representative."
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

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Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while

2016-06-08 Thread S Thomas via CnC-List

I don't see how leaving the transmission in gear can hurt, provided that the 
shaft does not turn, unless the clutches are somehow prone to getting stuck. 
Perhaps that is something that could happen on a long passage? 
It always seemed to me that free wheeling was just unnecessary wear and tear, 
never mind the drag. I intend to continue putting it in reverse when sailing. 

I met an engineer in Bahamas a couple of years ago who had built an alternator 
around his prop shaft, and free wheeled it to charge the batteries when 
sailing. He had the stator tied with small diameter line that was intended to 
break if the rotor was to somehow get jammed with the stator. Reminded me of 
those centrifugal emergency bilge pumps that can be installed around propeller 
shafts. No bearings required, just very careful alignment. They act as a 
not-very-good bilge blower unless the boat is flooding. 

Steve Thomas
C MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

C
Merritt Island, FL

  - Original Message - 
  From: Gary Russell via CnC-List 
  To: C List 
  Cc: Gary Russell 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 11:52
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while

  Dave,
   Using your argument, then reverse with a folding prop should not be a 
problem.
  Gary
  S/V Kaylarah

  ~~~_/)~~

  On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Dave Syer via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Hi All,

Have seen question pop up a few times.   Does anyone know the "why" 
involved in Yanmar's recommendation of neutral?  
My thoughts, having had to disassemble and deglaze the cones on my Kanzaki 
'box:
- If in neutral and the shaft is rotating you wear bearings, stuffing box, 
shaft, but you do not transmit any load to the gearbox, clutch, crank. mounts 
etc.   
-If the shaft is not rotating you transmit some load via the drivetrain, 
esp with a fixed prop..
- IF the gear is engaged AND the shaft is rotating, (whether forward or 
reverse) you risk polishing/glazing the mating clutch surfaces, which are 
touching but are not forced together by the thrust load (the opposite in fact, 
in fwd).  This is indeed debilitating wear, and is well worth avoiding. 
I'm not an expert but the latter case is the only thing that makes sense to 
me.   
Thoughts?

Dave

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 07:04:32 -0700
From: Paul Baker 
To: 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while
sailing?
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

It depends on your transmission and engine. Yanmar had a bulletin a while 
back for their engines with Kanzaki transmissions stating that they should 
always be in neutral when sailing. Damage or wear to the transmission would 
occur otherwise.
Cheers,
Paul.

> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:36:50 -0400
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: ghnewt...@gmail.com
> 
> Which gear is recommended (forward or reverse) while sailing? When the 
transmission is in forward I can feel the shaft turning while sailing. When it 
is in reverse I don't feel it. Which is preferred?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> ___

___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing? Confusion reigns...

2016-06-08 Thread Richard N. Bush via CnC-List


 I thought I was following all this but now I'm confused; in regards to the 
Kanzaki, (which I have), if the Yanmar instruction is to have the gear in 
neutral; isn't that allowing the shaft to spin and cause the very problem Rick 
points out? 
(I have left the emails below which include the Yanmar Bulletin and Rick's 
explanation to allow reference); help me out here!  and thanks to all  

 


Richard
1985 C 37 CB: Ohio River, Mile 584.4;

Richard N. Bush 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Rick Brass 
Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 1:10 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?



The point is that the engine and any gears in the transmission are not turning, 
but the prop shaft will be rotating in the forward direction. So the clutch 
plate that transmits power to the prop shaft will be turning, with very light 
pressure between the drive plate and the clutch surface (which, IIRC, on a 
Kanzaki is a double ended cone?). That leads to glazing of the drive and driven 
plates, rapid clutch wear, and premature transmission rebuild.
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Russell 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 11:49 AM
To: C List 
Cc: Gary Russell 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?
 

How can a transmission in reverse (gears not turning) cause wear?  I'm 
dumb-founded.

Gary

S/V Kaylarah





~~~_/)~~

 

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Advisory Number: MSA08-003:

DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
TO: All Marine Distributors
SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS: 

All Sailboat Engines

We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while sailing 
with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar requires 
that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission shifter must 
be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or sail-drive will 
result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar's Limited Warranty. Please 
instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to the customer, of the 
correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while sailing.

If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing, either 
a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be used. 
However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection, installation, or 
operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine service advisory 
"MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection" for additional information.

If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a Customer 
Support representative."


 






___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

2016-06-08 Thread Rick Brass via CnC-List

The point is that the engine and any gears in the transmission are not turning, 
but the prop shaft will be rotating in the forward direction. So the clutch 
plate that transmits power to the prop shaft will be turning, with very light 
pressure between the drive plate and the clutch surface (which, IIRC, on a 
Kanzaki is a double ended cone?). That leads to glazing of the drive and driven 
plates, rapid clutch wear, and premature transmission rebuild.

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Russell 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 11:49 AM
To: C List 
Cc: Gary Russell 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

How can a transmission in reverse (gears not turning) cause wear?  I'm 
dumb-founded.

Gary

S/V Kaylarah

~~~_/)~~

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
 > wrote:

Advisory Number: MSA08-003:

DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
TO: All Marine Distributors
SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS: 

All Sailboat Engines

We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while sailing 
with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar requires 
that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission shifter must 
be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or sail-drive will 
result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar's Limited Warranty. Please 
instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to the customer, of the 
correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while sailing.

If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing, either 
a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be used. 
However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection, installation, or 
operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine service advisory 
"MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection" for additional information.

If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a Customer 
Support representative."

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Joel Aronson  > wrote:

Yes, I found the bulletin several years ago.

Joel

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  > wrote:

Can anybody verify this?

We have a Kanzaki KM3P transmission on our Yanmar 3GM30F.  We always have in 
reverse while sailing.  

It would be very good to know if this is a roblem!

Mike

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
 ] On Behalf Of Paul Baker via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 11:05 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Cc: Paul Baker
Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

It depends on your transmission and engine. Yanmar had a bulletin a while back 
for their engines with Kanzaki transmissions stating that they should always be 
in neutral when sailing. Damage or wear to the transmission would occur 
otherwise. 
Cheers,
Paul. 

> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:36:50 -0400
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
> Subject: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
> CC: ghnewt...@gmail.com  
> 
> Which gear is recommended (forward or reverse) while sailing? When the 
> transmission is in forward I can feel the shaft turning while sailing. When 
> it is in reverse I don't feel it. Which is preferred?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

-- 

Joel 
301 541 8551  

-- 

Joel 
301 541 8551  

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greatly appreciated!

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while

Dave,
 Using your argument, then reverse with a folding prop should not be a
problem.
Gary
S/V Kaylarah

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Dave Syer via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Have seen question pop up a few times.   Does anyone know the "why"
> involved in Yanmar's recommendation of neutral?
> My thoughts, having had to disassemble and deglaze the cones on my Kanzaki
> 'box:
> - If in neutral and the shaft is rotating you wear bearings, stuffing box,
> shaft, but you do not transmit any load to the gearbox, clutch, crank.
> mounts etc.
> -If the shaft is not rotating you transmit some load via the drivetrain,
> esp with a fixed prop..
> - IF the gear is engaged AND the shaft is rotating, (whether forward or
> reverse) you risk polishing/glazing the mating clutch surfaces, which are
> touching but are not forced together by the thrust load (the opposite in
> fact, in fwd).  This is indeed debilitating wear, and is well worth
> avoiding.
> I'm not an expert but the latter case is the only thing that makes sense
> to me.
> Thoughts?
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 07:04:32 -0700
> From: Paul Baker 
> To: 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while
> sailing?
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It depends on your transmission and engine. Yanmar had a bulletin a while
> back for their engines with Kanzaki transmissions stating that they should
> always be in neutral when sailing. Damage or wear to the transmission would
> occur otherwise.
> Cheers,
> Paul.
>
> > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:36:50 -0400
> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > Subject: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?
> > From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > CC: ghnewt...@gmail.com
> >
> > Which gear is recommended (forward or reverse) while sailing? When the
> transmission is in forward I can feel the shaft turning while sailing. When
> it is in reverse I don't feel it. Which is preferred?
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> > ___
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

2016-06-08 Thread Dennis C. via CnC-List

My Universal diesel manual for Hurth HBW tranny says freewheeling won't
hurt the tranny.  It is moot on whether to lock it.

>From marinedieseldirect.com for Hurth trannies:  "DO NOT LEAVE GEAR IN
FORWARD WHEN SAILING. GEAR MUST BE IN NEUTRAL FOR FREE WHEELING OR SHIFTED
INTO REVERSE TO LOCK PROPELLER WHILE SAILING."

I always put Touche's tranny in reverse.  It has a Martec 2 blade folder.

Dennis C.
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

How can a transmission in reverse (gears not turning) cause wear?  I'm
dumb-founded.
Gary
S/V Kaylarah

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Advisory Number: MSA08-003:
>
> DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
> TO: All Marine Distributors
> SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS:
>
> All Sailboat Engines
>
> We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while
> sailing with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar
> requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission
> shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or
> sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar's Limited
> Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to
> the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while
> sailing.
>
> If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing,
> either a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be
> used. However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection,
> installation, or operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine
> service advisory "MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection" for
> additional information.
>
> If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a
> Customer Support representative."
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Joel Aronson 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, I found the bulletin several years ago.
>>
>> Joel
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Can anybody verify this?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have a Kanzaki KM3P transmission on our Yanmar 3GM30F.  We always
>>> have in reverse while sailing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It would be very good to know if this is a roblem!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul
>>> Baker via CnC-List
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 08, 2016 11:05 AM
>>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> *Cc:* Paul Baker
>>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while
>>> sailing?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It depends on your transmission and engine. Yanmar had a bulletin a
>>> while back for their engines with Kanzaki transmissions stating that they
>>> should always be in neutral when sailing. Damage or wear to the
>>> transmission would occur otherwise.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Paul.
>>>
>>> > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:36:50 -0400
>>> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> > Subject: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?
>>> > From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> > CC: ghnewt...@gmail.com
>>> >
>>> > Which gear is recommended (forward or reverse) while sailing? When the
>>> transmission is in forward I can feel the shaft turning while sailing. When
>>> it is in reverse I don't feel it. Which is preferred?
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPad
>>> > ___
>>> >
>>> > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If
>>> you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
>>> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>>> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
>>> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joel
>> 301 541 8551
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Proper perfidious Pronunciation of perjurious terminology

2016-06-08 Thread Richard N. Bush via CnC-List


 I love the things one can learn from this list!

 


Richard

Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Frederick G Street 
Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 11:26 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion


>From Urban Dictionary:



dufus
dummy, fool, idiot
OR



doofus 
Someone who hasn't got a clue! 
They live in blissful ignorance of the world, fashion, personal hygiene and 
social skills. 







Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI







On Jun 8, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List  
wrote:



BTW, exactly how do you spell the word/term pronounced “doo-fuss”?



___

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Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

2016-06-08 Thread Patrick Davin via CnC-List

Are you sure? I talked to Trans Atlantic Diesels (who sells Hurth
transmissions) last year and they told me Hurth transmissions should not be
left in reverse while sailing. I told them the prop spins in neutral, and
they replied the prop should be allowed to freewheel in neutral, and not
sailed in reverse or fwd.

This is a much debated topic though. A Google search will turn up a
thousand conflicting opinions. I'm sticking with what the people who make
and repair the transmissions say though.

-Patrick
1984 C Landfall 38

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 5:19 AM,  wrote:

> From: Gary Russell 
> To: "C List" 
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 07:16:57 -0400
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?
>
> The answer may depend on what make of transmission you have, but my Hurth
> transmission recommends reverse.  If your prop is spinning in forward, I
> would suggest that is not good.  I would recommend reverse.  Some
> transmission, I'm told, have the oil pump on the input shaft, so there is
> no lubrication when the engine is stopped.  That's one reason you want to
> make sure the prop is not free-wheeling.  The other reason, of course, is
> drag.
>
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
> '90 C 37+
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
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Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

2016-06-08 Thread Frederick G Street via CnC-List

From Urban Dictionary:

dufus 
dummy, fool, idiot
OR

doofus   <>
Someone who hasn't got a clue! 
They live in blissful ignorance of the world, fashion, personal hygiene and 
social skills. 

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

> On Jun 8, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> BTW, exactly how do you spell the word/term pronounced “doo-fuss”?
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Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

2016-06-08 Thread Indigo via CnC-List

I have a friend who writes and gives Connecticut SafeBoating classes - needed 
for operating boats in CT.  Just asked him as to the pecking order of manually 
propelled vessels. He replied that they are treated as sailing vessels. Which 
is fine provided that the meeting is between a power vessel and a paddleboarder 
- but I'll be damned if I know how to tell if a paddle boarder is on a port or 
starboard tack when I am crossing him in my sailboat!!


--
Jonathan
Indigo C 35III
SOUTHPORT CT

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Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

2016-06-08 Thread Rick Brass via CnC-List

Don’t lose sight of the fact that “restricted in the ability to maneuver” is 
because of the WORK that is being done. So if the rowboat is not dredging, 
laying cable, or any of the other activities defined in rule 3 it could not be 
considered restricted.

 

Rule 2 says he needs to not hit you, and you need to not hit him. And Rule 2 
also say that avoiding collision takes precedence over all the other rules.

 

So, since the person in the rowboat, kayak, SUP, or canoe is most likely a 
clueless duffus, the onus seems to be on us to avoid them. Whatever moral 
rights we may believe we have.

 

Rick Brass

USCG Master 2878278

Washington, NC

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Indigo via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 9:10 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Indigo 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

 

As far as I know, speed of vessel plays no part in determining ROW.  If it did, 
a power boat with a displacement hull would be able to claim ROW  over one 
with a planning hull.  Maritime attorneys may argue over "restricted in 
manouverabity" but I think it would be safe to say that if the rower was 
keeping a good lookout he/she would not put themselves in a 

 

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Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while

2016-06-08 Thread Dave Syer via CnC-List

Hi All,

Have seen question pop up a few times.   Does anyone know the "why"
involved in Yanmar's recommendation of neutral?
My thoughts, having had to disassemble and deglaze the cones on my Kanzaki
'box:
- If in neutral and the shaft is rotating you wear bearings, stuffing box,
shaft, but you do not transmit any load to the gearbox, clutch, crank.
mounts etc.
-If the shaft is not rotating you transmit some load via the drivetrain,
esp with a fixed prop..
- IF the gear is engaged AND the shaft is rotating, (whether forward or
reverse) you risk polishing/glazing the mating clutch surfaces, which are
touching but are not forced together by the thrust load (the opposite in
fact, in fwd).  This is indeed debilitating wear, and is well worth
avoiding.
I'm not an expert but the latter case is the only thing that makes sense to
me.
Thoughts?

Dave







Message: 5
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 07:04:32 -0700
From: Paul Baker 
To: 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while
sailing?
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

It depends on your transmission and engine. Yanmar had a bulletin a while
back for their engines with Kanzaki transmissions stating that they should
always be in neutral when sailing. Damage or wear to the transmission would
occur otherwise.
Cheers,
Paul.

> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:36:50 -0400
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: ghnewt...@gmail.com
>
> Which gear is recommended (forward or reverse) while sailing? When the
transmission is in forward I can feel the shaft turning while sailing. When
it is in reverse I don't feel it. Which is preferred?
>
> Sent from my iPad
> ___
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Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

If you have a feathering prop, you have to put it in reverse in order to
feather the prop.  Once it's feathered, the shaft will stop rotating.  Even
without a feathering prop, you don't want the shaft turning when the engine
isn't running.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 7:07 AM, mike amirault via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> On my C with Martec folding prop, I pop it into reverse for a second
> and it will stop rotating. Then I  shift to neutral and it does not rotate.
>
> Mike Amirault
> C Lovely Cruise
> SMSC NS
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

2016-06-08 Thread robert via CnC-List

Seems to be two opinions on this.one is 'neutral' and the other is 
in 'reverse'.

If mine is in 'neutral' the fixed two blade prop spins and I can hear 
it..obviously the spinning of the prop causes the gears in the 
transmission to spin.  Since these gears are immersed in oil, there 
should be no problem.

However, I have had the boat for 10 sailing seasons and have placed the 
transmission in 'reverse' when sailing with no apparent issues and will 
continue to place it in 'reverse' unless someone can convince me what 
damage is taking place.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2016-06-08 11:08 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote:

Can anybody verify this?

We have a Kanzaki KM3P transmission on our Yanmar 3GM30F.  We always 
have in reverse while sailing.

It would be very good to know if this is a roblem!

Mike

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Paul Baker via CnC-List

*Sent:* Wednesday, June 08, 2016 11:05 AM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Paul Baker
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

It depends on your transmission and engine. Yanmar had a bulletin a 
while back for their engines with Kanzaki transmissions stating that 
they should always be in neutral when sailing. Damage or wear to the 
transmission would occur otherwise.

Cheers,
Paul.

> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:36:50 -0400
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Subject: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> CC: ghnewt...@gmail.com 
>
> Which gear is recommended (forward or reverse) while sailing? When 
the transmission is in forward I can feel the shaft turning while 
sailing. When it is in reverse I don't feel it. Which is preferred?

>
> Sent from my iPad
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If 
you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All 
Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

2016-06-08 Thread RANDY via CnC-List

My wife has a 12' SUP that we use regularly. I can turn 90 degrees and move 
away in a few paddle strokes and a few seconds - with a dog on the front. I 
agree a big part of the problem is your average SUP'er, jet skier, wave runner 
rider, speedboat driver, or party barge renter doesn't know crap about ROW 
rules, compared to a sailor. But if I'm SUP'ing in a busy waterway I'm 
following the "tonnage rule" :) 

Incidentally my daughter has epilepsy - she was born with a cortical dysplasia 
in her right occipital lobe. The scariest thing I've ever experienced is her 
going unconscious and convulsing uncontrollably and there not being a damn 
thing I can do about it. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Bill Bina - gmail"  
Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 6:32:10 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion 



The problem in my local area is kayak and SUP rentals, where the renters of the 
kayaks are completely oblivious to any rules, or their immediate surroundings. 
I can be motoring in my dinghy in the same direction as a pack of them and they 
will suddenly, and sharply, veer directly across my bow without any warning, or 
even a slight turn of their head. I'm quite sure they could hear me coming if 
they were even slightly paying attention. I have come very close to running 
them over through no fault of my own. They tend to be in groups, so if one cuts 
in front of me, I may have to run over their friends to avoid them. This is not 
a rare occurrence. Sooner or later, one of these idiots will be run over, and 
then everyone will have a seizure over it, and start proposing all sorts of bad 
laws. Bad for US. 


Bill Bina 

On 6/8/2016 8:18 AM, jhnelson via CnC-List wrote: 



I suggest that row boats ate power vessels where the "vessel propelled by 
machinery" is oars. 

Then rule 18 becomes quite clear. 
Regardless, rule 18 is likely to apply as a paddle boarder is likely in an area 
of shallow water where navigation is limited by draught. 






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Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

Advisory Number: MSA08-003:

DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
TO: All Marine Distributors
SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS:

All Sailboat Engines

We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while
sailing with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar
requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission
shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or
sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar's Limited
Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to
the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while
sailing.

If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing,
either a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be
used. However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection,
installation, or operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine
service advisory "MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection" for
additional information.

If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a Customer
Support representative."

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Joel Aronson 
wrote:

> Yes, I found the bulletin several years ago.
>
> Joel
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Can anybody verify this?
>>
>>
>>
>> We have a Kanzaki KM3P transmission on our Yanmar 3GM30F.  We always have
>> in reverse while sailing.
>>
>>
>>
>> It would be very good to know if this is a roblem!
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul
>> Baker via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 08, 2016 11:05 AM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Cc:* Paul Baker
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while
>> sailing?
>>
>>
>>
>> It depends on your transmission and engine. Yanmar had a bulletin a while
>> back for their engines with Kanzaki transmissions stating that they should
>> always be in neutral when sailing. Damage or wear to the transmission would
>> occur otherwise.
>> Cheers,
>> Paul.
>>
>> > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:36:50 -0400
>> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> > Subject: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?
>> > From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> > CC: ghnewt...@gmail.com
>> >
>> > Which gear is recommended (forward or reverse) while sailing? When the
>> transmission is in forward I can feel the shaft turning while sailing. When
>> it is in reverse I don't feel it. Which is preferred?
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPad
>> > ___
>> >
>> > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
>> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
>> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
>

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

2016-06-08 Thread Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List

Can anybody verify this?

We have a Kanzaki KM3P transmission on our Yanmar 3GM30F.  We always have in 
reverse while sailing.

It would be very good to know if this is a roblem!

Mike

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Paul Baker 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 11:05 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Paul Baker
Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

It depends on your transmission and engine. Yanmar had a bulletin a while back 
for their engines with Kanzaki transmissions stating that they should always be 
in neutral when sailing. Damage or wear to the transmission would occur 
otherwise.
Cheers,
Paul.

> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:36:50 -0400
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: ghnewt...@gmail.com
>
> Which gear is recommended (forward or reverse) while sailing? When the 
> transmission is in forward I can feel the shaft turning while sailing. When 
> it is in reverse I don't feel it. Which is preferred?
>
> Sent from my iPad
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
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Re: Stus-List Kanzaki Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

Yes, I found the bulletin several years ago.

Joel

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Can anybody verify this?
>
>
>
> We have a Kanzaki KM3P transmission on our Yanmar 3GM30F.  We always have
> in reverse while sailing.
>
>
>
> It would be very good to know if this is a roblem!
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul
> Baker via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 08, 2016 11:05 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Paul Baker
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?
>
>
>
> It depends on your transmission and engine. Yanmar had a bulletin a while
> back for their engines with Kanzaki transmissions stating that they should
> always be in neutral when sailing. Damage or wear to the transmission would
> occur otherwise.
> Cheers,
> Paul.
>
> > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:36:50 -0400
> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > Subject: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?
> > From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > CC: ghnewt...@gmail.com
> >
> > Which gear is recommended (forward or reverse) while sailing? When the
> transmission is in forward I can feel the shaft turning while sailing. When
> it is in reverse I don't feel it. Which is preferred?
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> > ___
> >
> > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

2016-06-08 Thread mike amirault via CnC-List

On my C with Martec folding prop, I pop it into reverse for a second and 
it will stop rotating. Then I  shift to neutral and it does not rotate.

Mike Amirault
C Lovely Cruise
SMSC NS___

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Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

2016-06-08 Thread Paul Baker via CnC-List

It depends on your transmission and engine. Yanmar had a bulletin a while back 
for their engines with Kanzaki transmissions stating that they should always be 
in neutral when sailing. Damage or wear to the transmission would occur 
otherwise. 
Cheers,
Paul. 

> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:36:50 -0400
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: ghnewt...@gmail.com
> 
> Which gear is recommended (forward or reverse) while sailing? When the 
> transmission is in forward I can feel the shaft turning while sailing. When 
> it is in reverse I don't feel it. Which is preferred?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
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Re: Stus-List (no subject)

Kanzaki recommends neutral for a fixed prop, neutral or reverse for a
fixed/folding prop.  If you have a folding/feathering prop, shifting into
reverse for a few seconds causes the prop to fold or feather.

Joel

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Aside from drag, I don't see what harm having it is neutral could do to
> the mechanical systems.  That said, if I recall correctly, the MarTec prop
> folks suggest putting it in reverse temporarily to rotate the prop blades
> into a neutral position...but that could just be something I imagined.
>
> Tom Buscaglia
> S/V Alera
> 1990 C 37+/40
> Vashon WA
> P 206.463.9200
>
>
> > On Jun 8, 2016, at 9:06 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 09:05:42 -0400
> > From: David Knecht 
> > To: CnC CnC discussion list 
> > Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while
> >sailing?
> > Message-ID: 
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Mine recommends reverse but also says the transmission will be damaged
> if left in forward.  Not sure why.  Dave
> >
> >> On Jun 8, 2016, at 7:16 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> The answer may depend on what make of transmission you have, but my
> Hurth transmission recommends reverse.  If your prop is spinning in
> forward, I would suggest that is not good.  I would recommend reverse.
> Some transmission, I'm told, have the oil pump on the input shaft, so there
> is no lubrication when the engine is stopped.  That's one reason you want
> to make sure the prop is not free-wheeling.  The other reason, of course,
> is drag.
> >>
> >> Gary
> >> S/V Kaylarah
> >> '90 C 37+
> >> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> >>
> >>
> >> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>



-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Stus-List (no subject)

2016-06-08 Thread Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List

Aside from drag, I don't see what harm having it is neutral could do to the 
mechanical systems.  That said, if I recall correctly, the MarTec prop folks 
suggest putting it in reverse temporarily to rotate the prop blades into a 
neutral position...but that could just be something I imagined.

Tom Buscaglia
S/V Alera 
1990 C 37+/40
Vashon WA
P 206.463.9200


> On Jun 8, 2016, at 9:06 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 09:05:42 -0400
> From: David Knecht 
> To: CnC CnC discussion list 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while
>sailing?
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Mine recommends reverse but also says the transmission will be damaged if 
> left in forward.  Not sure why.  Dave
> 
>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 7:16 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> The answer may depend on what make of transmission you have, but my Hurth 
>> transmission recommends reverse.  If your prop is spinning in forward, I 
>> would suggest that is not good.  I would recommend reverse.  Some 
>> transmission, I'm told, have the oil pump on the input shaft, so there is no 
>> lubrication when the engine is stopped.  That's one reason you want to make 
>> sure the prop is not free-wheeling.  The other reason, of course, is drag.
>> 
>> Gary
>> S/V Kaylarah
>> '90 C 37+
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>> 
>> 
>> ~~~_/)~~


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Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

2016-06-08 Thread Russ & Melody via CnC-List



The Kanazaki  tranni on my Yanmar 2QM* will spin in forward, so 
reverse is the best choice.


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 03:36 AM 08/06/2016, you wrote:
Which gear is recommended (forward or reverse) while sailing? When 
the transmission is in forward I can feel the shaft turning while 
sailing. When it is in reverse I don't feel it. Which is preferred?


Sent from my iPad
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Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

2016-06-08 Thread Indigo via CnC-List

As far as I know, speed of vessel plays no part in determining ROW.  If it did, 
a power boat with a displacement hull would be able to claim ROW  over one 
with a planning hull.  Maritime attorneys may argue over "restricted in 
manouverabity" but I think it would be safe to say that if the rower was 
keeping a good lookout he/she would not put themselves in a position where they 
were unable to avoid a collision because they could not keep out of the way. 

--
Jonathan
Indigo C 35III
SOUTHPORT CT

> On Jun 8, 2016, at 07:21, Gary Russell via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Jonathan,
>  While what you say may be true, it is also true that a slow moving 
> (manually propelled) vessel would have a very hard time getting out of the 
> way of a faster vessel.  It's sort of like a pedestrian in a crosswalk.
> 
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
> '90 C 37+
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> 
> ~~~_/)~~
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 9:23 PM, Indigo via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> I would think that "manually propelled" vessels form a different class of 
>> vessels.  When two vessels belonging to different classes meet, the vessel 
>> belonging to the more maneuverable class is the "give way" vessel. In 
>> general, manually propelled vessels have minimal draft, and can therefor go 
>> where most other vessels cannot. This imho would place manually propelled 
>> vessels at the absolute bottom of the pecking order and be required to give 
>> way to all other classes of vessels.  While I am always courteous and 
>> careful around them, they do irritate me hugely when they insist in sticking 
>> to the middle of a channel! 
>> 
>> --
>> Jonathan
>> Indigo C 35III
>> SOUTHPORT CT
>> 
>>> On Jun 7, 2016, at 20:46, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Saw a post on a local yacht club board this week.  Seems a sailboat was 
>>> approaching a group of stand up paddle boarders (SUP's).  Sailor didn't 
>>> know who had ROW.  As he went by the SUP's, he asked them.  They didn't 
>>> know either.
>>> 
>>> With the exception of required lights, the rules seem to be minimal on 
>>> situations with oared craft such as dinghies, SUP's, kayaks, canoes, etc.  
>>> The Admiral and I rarely put the outboard on our dinghy.  We just row 
>>> ashore or to neighboring boats.
>>> 
>>> Here's some vague guidance:  from navcen.uscg.gov: 
>>> 
>>> "13. Where do Kayaks and Canoes fit into the Navigation Rules? Neither the 
>>> International nor Inland Navigation Rules address "kayaks" or "canoes" per 
>>> se, except in regards to "vessels under oars" in Rule 25 regarding lights. 
>>> One could infer that a "vessel under oars" should be treated as a "sailing 
>>> vessel" since it is permitted to display the same lights as one, but, 
>>> ultimately the issue of whom "gives way" would fall to what would be 
>>> "required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special 
>>> circumstances of the case" (Rule 2)." Source: 
>>> http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesFAQ#0.3_13
>>> 
>>> Interesting topic.  What say you?
>>> 
>>> Dennis C.
>>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>>> Mandeville, LA
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you 
>>> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All 
>>> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>> 
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>> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
>> are greatly appreciated!
> 
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> are greatly appreciated!
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Re: Stus-List Transmission in forward or reverse while sailing?

2016-06-08 Thread David Knecht via CnC-List

Mine recommends reverse but also says the transmission will be damaged if left 
in forward.  Not sure why.  Dave

On Jun 8, 2016, at 7:16 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List  
wrote:

> 
> The answer may depend on what make of transmission you have, but my Hurth 
> transmission recommends reverse.  If your prop is spinning in forward, I 
> would suggest that is not good.  I would recommend reverse.  Some 
> transmission, I'm told, have the oil pump on the input shaft, so there is no 
> lubrication when the engine is stopped.  That's one reason you want to make 
> sure the prop is not free-wheeling.  The other reason, of course, is drag.
> 
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
> '90 C 37+
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> 
> 
> ~~~_/)~~
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 6:36 AM, Gary Newton via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> Which gear is recommended (forward or reverse) while sailing? When the 
> transmission is in forward I can feel the shaft turning while sailing. When 
> it is in reverse I don't feel it. Which is preferred?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
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> 
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> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
> 
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> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!

Dr. David Knecht
Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology
Core Microscopy Facility Director
University of Connecticut   
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
Storrs, CT 06269
860-486-2200

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Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

Jonathan,
 While what you say may be true, it is also true that a slow moving
(manually propelled) vessel would have a very hard time getting out of the
way of a faster vessel.  It's sort of like a pedestrian in a crosswalk.

Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 9:23 PM, Indigo via CnC-List 
wrote:

> I would think that "manually propelled" vessels form a different class of
> vessels.  When two vessels belonging to different classes meet, the vessel
> belonging to the more maneuverable class is the "give way" vessel. In
> general, manually propelled vessels have minimal draft, and can therefor go
> where most other vessels cannot. This imho would place manually propelled
> vessels at the absolute bottom of the pecking order and be required to give
> way to all other classes of vessels.  While I am always courteous and
> careful around them, they do irritate me hugely when they insist in
> sticking to the middle of a channel!
>
> --
> Jonathan
> Indigo C 35III
> SOUTHPORT CT
>
> On Jun 7, 2016, at 20:46, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> Saw a post on a local yacht club board this week.  Seems a sailboat was
> approaching a group of stand up paddle boarders (SUP's).  Sailor didn't
> know who had ROW.  As he went by the SUP's, he asked them.  They didn't
> know either.
>
> With the exception of required lights, the rules seem to be minimal on
> situations with oared craft such as dinghies, SUP's, kayaks, canoes, etc.
> The Admiral and I rarely put the outboard on our dinghy.  We just row
> ashore or to neighboring boats.
>
> Here's some vague guidance:  from navcen.uscg.gov:
>
> "13. Where do Kayaks and Canoes fit into the Navigation Rules? Neither the
> International nor Inland Navigation Rules address "kayaks" or "canoes" per
> se, except in regards to "vessels under oars" in Rule 25 regarding lights.
> One could infer that a "vessel under oars" should be treated as a "sailing
> vessel" since it is permitted to display the same lights as one, but,
> ultimately the issue of whom "gives way" would fall to what would be
> "required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special
> circumstances of the case" (Rule 2)." Source:
> http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesFAQ#0.3_13
>
> Interesting topic.  What say you?
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Starting Problem

2016-06-08 Thread Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List

Thx - I'll look for that and clean it
Mark

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
- George Santayana
On 2016-06-07 8:44 PM, Dave via
CnC-List wrote:

Your description has me 90% certain
you have a bad ground from the wiring harness to the engine.
On my 2gm this was a large ring terminal attached to or above
the stArter iirc. Your multimeter may fool you as you are
getting some conductivity. Inspect, Clean/de oxidize that
grounding point first, save yourself some time.
Note - since you are near the 12v
feed to the starter, be careful when you work...
Dave.

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2016 15:42:53 -0300
From: "Dr. Mark Bodnar"
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting Problem
Message-ID: <914ac484-43d2-9fd4-fb72-4fe87cccf...@accesswave.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Thanks for all the feedback.

I'll me digging out my multimeter and heading down to the boat
this
weekend. I now realize that I don't think the engine vent fan
turned on
when I turned the key (my lights on the panel are rather
intermittent
and my engine overheat buzzer has never worked, plus the tach
is
intermittent -- so good chance that the wiring harness is the
culprit).

I'll check the fuses on the engine and see if I can find the
ground wires.

No glow plug to deal with.

I've also been advised to check the "neutral kill swtich"
(stops you
from starting engine in gear) and the "oil pressure kill
switch" - not
sure where those are so I'll have to look at the engine
manual.

I'll see what I find and come back with more details if it's
not working

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

2016-06-08 Thread Edd Schillay via CnC-List

Most of us sailing out of the city refer to kayaks as "speed bumps". 

All the best,

Edd

---
Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
NCC-1701-B
C 37+ | City Island, NY
www.StarshipSailing.com
---
914.332.4400  | Office
914.774.9767  | Mobile
---
Sent via iPhone 6
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize

On Jun 8, 2016, at 8:32 AM, Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List 
 wrote:

The problem in my local area is kayak and SUP rentals, where the renters of the 
kayaks are completely oblivious to any rules, or their immediate surroundings. 
I can be motoring in my dinghy in the same direction as a pack of them and they 
will suddenly, and sharply, veer directly across my bow without any warning, or 
even a slight turn of their head. I'm quite sure they could hear me coming if 
they were even slightly paying attention. I have come very close to running 
them over through no fault of my own. They tend to be in groups, so if one cuts 
in front of me, I may have to run over their friends to avoid them. This is not 
a rare occurrence. Sooner or later, one of these idiots will be run over, and 
then everyone will have a seizure over   it, and start proposing all 
sorts of bad laws. Bad for US.

Bill Bina

> On 6/8/2016 8:18 AM, jhnelson via CnC-List wrote:
> I suggest that row boats ate power vessels where the "vessel propelled by 
> machinery" is oars.
> 
> Then rule 18 becomes quite clear. 
> Regardless, rule 18 is likely to apply as a paddle boarder is likely in an 
> area of shallow water where navigation is limited by draught.
> 
> 

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Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

The problem in my local area is kayak and SUP rentals, where the renters 
of the kayaks are completely oblivious to any rules, or their immediate 
surroundings. I can be motoring in my dinghy in the same direction as a 
pack of them and they will suddenly, and sharply, veer directly across 
my bow without any warning, or even a slight turn of their head. I'm 
quite sure they could hear me coming if they were even slightly paying 
attention. I have come very close to running them over through no fault 
of my own. They tend to be in groups, so if one cuts in front of me, I 
may have to run over their friends to avoid them. This is not a rare 
occurrence. Sooner or later, one of these idiots will be run over, and 
then everyone will have a seizure over it, and start proposing all sorts 
of bad laws. Bad for US.


Bill Bina


On 6/8/2016 8:18 AM, jhnelson via CnC-List wrote:
I suggest that row boats ate power vessels where the "vessel propelled 
by machinery" is oars.


Then rule 18 becomes quite clear.
Regardless, rule 18 is likely to apply as a paddle boarder is likely 
in an area of shallow water where navigation is limited by draught.





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Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

2016-06-08 Thread jhnelson via CnC-List



Also may need to consult inland waterways rules as there are further 
restrictions. These rules apply in harbours etc where paddle boards are more 
likely to be found Www.navecenuscg.gov/pdf/naverules/naverules.pdf are the US 
ones. Canada has them as well but can't find them at the moment.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: RANDY via CnC-List  
Date: 2016-06-07  23:12  (GMT-04:00) 
To: cnc-list  
Cc: RANDY  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion 

Seconded.  I believe the underlying ROW principle between different categories 
of vessel is that the more maneuverable give way to the less maneuverable.
Best Regards,Randy StaffordS/V GrenadineC 30-1 #7Ken Caryl, CO
From: "Indigo via CnC-List" 
To: "cnc-list" 
Cc: "Indigo" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 7:23:13 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Right of way (ROW) discussion

I would think that "manually propelled" vessels form a different class of 
vessels.  When two vessels belonging to different classes meet, the vessel 
belonging to the more maneuverable class is the "give way" vessel. In general, 
manually propelled vessels have minimal draft, and can therefor go where most 
other vessels cannot. This imho would place manually propelled vessels at the 
absolute bottom of the pecking order and be required to give way to all other 
classes of vessels.  While I am always courteous and careful around them, they 
do irritate me hugely when they insist in sticking to the middle of a channel! 

--JonathanIndigo C 35III
SOUTHPORT CT
On Jun 7, 2016, at 20:46, Dennis C. via CnC-List  wrote:

Saw a post on a local yacht club board this week.  Seems a sailboat was 
approaching a group of stand up paddle boarders (SUP's).  Sailor didn't know 
who had ROW.  As he went by the SUP's, he asked them.  They didn't know either.

With the exception of required lights, the rules seem to be minimal on 
situations with oared craft such as dinghies, SUP's, kayaks, canoes, etc.  The 
Admiral and I rarely put the outboard on our dinghy.  We just row ashore or to 
neighboring boats.

Here's some vague guidance:  from navcen.uscg.gov: 

"13. Where do Kayaks and Canoes fit into the Navigation Rules? Neither the 
International nor Inland Navigation Rules address "kayaks" or "canoes" per se, 
except in regards to "vessels under oars" in Rule 25 regarding lights. One 
could infer that a "vessel under oars" should be treated as a "sailing vessel" 
since it is permitted to display the same lights as one, but, ultimately the 
issue of whom "gives way" would fall to what would be "required by the ordinary 
practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case" (Rule 2)." 
Source: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesFAQ#0.3_13

Interesting topic.  What say you?

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

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Re: Stus-List Cabin window replacement, again