Re: Stus-List Water system

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

If we are talking about the water pressure accumulators, I wonder if anyone has 
any experience with winterising them. Do you need to disconnect it for the 
winter? Do you go through any extra steps?

Thanks

Marek
Ottawa,  ON



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


 Original message 
From: "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List" 
Date: 2019-01-19 15:07 (GMT-05:00)
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: "Matthew L. Wolford" 
Subject: Stus-List Water system

Listers:

I replaced my potable water tank last year and discovered that the water 
system must have a leak in one or more of the ancient hoses/fittings.  I 
decided that it’s time to replace the old hoses and check/replace fittings, and 
I’m considering also adding an accumulator tank.  The hose currently coming 
from the tank is 5/8” ID, but the accumulator tank I’m thinking about adding to 
the system accepts 1/2” ID hose.  Two questions: 1) are small accumulator tanks 
worth the cost and effort to install; and 2) is there any benefit of using 5/8” 
hose instead of 1/2” hose (or vice versa).  Please advise.  Thanks.

Matt Wolford
C&C 42 Custom
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Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

I'm trying out OpenCPN on my laptop and Android tablet, but can't find a
source for Canadian charts. Has anyone had luck using OpenCPN in Canadian
waters (west coast)?

For this asking about using Android tablets offline for navigation, I have
had no issues travelling with several Android phones and tablets in many
countries (Japan, Central America, US and Canada) without cell or wifi
service, either by downloading Google offline maps in advance, or using
another offline map app. The app contains the offline map/chart data, and
the phone/tablet merely need to obtain a GPS fix, which does not require
either cellular data or wifi.

On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 4:15 PM Rick Brass via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Tom;
>
>
>
> My old IPad has the Garmin app loaded, along with 8 other navigation apps
> including a weather router, Drag Queen, Active Captain, Predict Wind, and a
> Tides app. I have all of the Garmin charts for the east coast of Canada and
> the US, the Bahamas, Bermuda, and the northwest part of the Caribbean from
> Cuba to the BVI. I’ve also choked the memory with a bunch of E books, a
> Nook app, a gaggle of photos, email etc. Which leaves about 6.3gig of free
> memory at the moment.
>
>
>
> All this crap runs off line without any need for a Wifi or cellular
> connection. I download updates with the WiFi network in my home, or using
> my cell phone as a WiFi hotspot when traveling. The only App that needs
> regular update is the weather routing. The forecast gets less accurate as
> you go out past 3 days, so I had a gap in weather forecast during the
> middle of my passages to and from Bermuda last year. But on the trips I’ve
> made up the East Coast I’ve been close enough to shore often enough to get
> updates using the WiFi hotspot on my Verizon cell phone.
>
>
>
> I would almost guarantee that most other navigation apps offer offline
> service equal to what I have,
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *T
> power via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 19, 2019 10:57 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* T power 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation
>
>
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
>
>
> I was thinking of using a Samsung tablet also. Do you happen to sail
> offshore, If so are you still able to run a Nav program in real time when
> out of range of cell and wifi?
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Tom Power
>
> Invictus
>
> C&C 30 MK1
>
> Fredericton, NB
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>

-- 
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
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Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Tom;

 

My old IPad has the Garmin app loaded, along with 8 other navigation apps
including a weather router, Drag Queen, Active Captain, Predict Wind, and a
Tides app. I have all of the Garmin charts for the east coast of Canada and
the US, the Bahamas, Bermuda, and the northwest part of the Caribbean from
Cuba to the BVI. I've also choked the memory with a bunch of E books, a Nook
app, a gaggle of photos, email etc. Which leaves about 6.3gig of free memory
at the moment.

 

All this crap runs off line without any need for a Wifi or cellular
connection. I download updates with the WiFi network in my home, or using my
cell phone as a WiFi hotspot when traveling. The only App that needs regular
update is the weather routing. The forecast gets less accurate as you go out
past 3 days, so I had a gap in weather forecast during the  middle of my
passages to and from Bermuda last year. But on the trips I've made up the
East Coast I've been close enough to shore often enough to get updates using
the WiFi hotspot on my Verizon cell phone.

 

I would almost guarantee that most other navigation apps offer offline
service equal to what I have,

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of T power
via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2019 10:57 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: T power 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

 

Hi Bruce,

 

I was thinking of using a Samsung tablet also. Do you happen to sail
offshore, If so are you still able to run a Nav program in real time when
out of range of cell and wifi?

 

Cheers,

 

Tom Power

Invictus

C&C 30 MK1

Fredericton, NB

 

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Re: Stus-List Water system

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Oh yeah don't forget.  Tubing is measured by the OD and piping is measured
by the ID.  So 1/2 tube visual and hydraulically functions similar to
3/8ths pipe.

Josh

On Sat, Jan 19, 2019, 5:47 PM Josh Muckley  Accumulator tanks should have an air bladder and the air pressure should
> be adjusted to half that of the pump shutoff.  Really these help prevent
> excessive cycling at the pump shut off pressure.  They don't eliminate
> cycles when the system is being used and don't really change anything when
> the pump is on.
>
> I agree with the smaller diameter tubing.  Depending on your needs you
> might even consider 1/4" tubing.  You have to remember that when you use
> larger tubing/piping it takes more glycol to winterize, and more flush
> water to clean it out in the spring.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 19, 2019, 3:07 PM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
>
>> Listers:
>>
>> I replaced my potable water tank last year and discovered that the
>> water system must have a leak in one or more of the ancient
>> hoses/fittings.  I decided that it’s time to replace the old hoses and
>> check/replace fittings, and I’m considering also adding an accumulator
>> tank.  The hose currently coming from the tank is 5/8” ID, but the
>> accumulator tank I’m thinking about adding to the system accepts 1/2” ID
>> hose.  Two questions: 1) are small accumulator tanks worth the cost and
>> effort to install; and 2) is there any benefit of using 5/8” hose instead
>> of 1/2” hose (or vice versa).  Please advise.  Thanks.
>>
>> Matt Wolford
>> C&C 42 Custom
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>>
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Re: Stus-List Water system

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Accumulator tanks should have an air bladder and the air pressure should be
adjusted to half that of the pump shutoff.  Really these help prevent
excessive cycling at the pump shut off pressure.  They don't eliminate
cycles when the system is being used and don't really change anything when
the pump is on.

I agree with the smaller diameter tubing.  Depending on your needs you
might even consider 1/4" tubing.  You have to remember that when you use
larger tubing/piping it takes more glycol to winterize, and more flush
water to clean it out in the spring.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Sat, Jan 19, 2019, 3:07 PM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

> Listers:
>
> I replaced my potable water tank last year and discovered that the
> water system must have a leak in one or more of the ancient
> hoses/fittings.  I decided that it’s time to replace the old hoses and
> check/replace fittings, and I’m considering also adding an accumulator
> tank.  The hose currently coming from the tank is 5/8” ID, but the
> accumulator tank I’m thinking about adding to the system accepts 1/2” ID
> hose.  Two questions: 1) are small accumulator tanks worth the cost and
> effort to install; and 2) is there any benefit of using 5/8” hose instead
> of 1/2” hose (or vice versa).  Please advise.  Thanks.
>
> Matt Wolford
> C&C 42 Custom
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Water system

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

I think a half inch hose is even too much, we really don’t use that much water 
on these boats. If 3/8” was more common, I would redo mine with that, but it is 
not. 

I just got a variable speed on-demand pump, and they say you should remove your 
accumulator tank if using one of these.  So you can either use one of those 
pumps and not worry about the accumulator, or I can give you my old one. Only 
takes a T to install one.

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 Erie, PA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Matthew L. 
Wolford via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2019 3:07 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford
Subject: Stus-List Water system

 

Listers:

 

I replaced my potable water tank last year and discovered that the water 
system must have a leak in one or more of the ancient hoses/fittings.  I 
decided that it’s time to replace the old hoses and check/replace fittings, and 
I’m considering also adding an accumulator tank.  The hose currently coming 
from the tank is 5/8” ID, but the accumulator tank I’m thinking about adding to 
the system accepts 1/2” ID hose.  Two questions: 1) are small accumulator tanks 
worth the cost and effort to install; and 2) is there any benefit of using 5/8” 
hose instead of 1/2” hose (or vice versa).  Please advise.  Thanks.

 

Matt Wolford

C&C 42 Custom 

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Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

I just received a Practical Sailor e-mail about a DIY project related to laptop 
navigating in lieu of a chartplotter.  Very timely for your discussion.

From: Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2019 2:37 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Tom Buscaglia 
Subject: Stus-List Tablet for navigation


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Stus-List Water system

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Listers:

I replaced my potable water tank last year and discovered that the water 
system must have a leak in one or more of the ancient hoses/fittings.  I 
decided that it’s time to replace the old hoses and check/replace fittings, and 
I’m considering also adding an accumulator tank.  The hose currently coming 
from the tank is 5/8” ID, but the accumulator tank I’m thinking about adding to 
the system accepts 1/2” ID hose.  Two questions: 1) are small accumulator tanks 
worth the cost and effort to install; and 2) is there any benefit of using 5/8” 
hose instead of 1/2” hose (or vice versa).  Please advise.  Thanks.

Matt Wolford
C&C 42 Custom 
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Stus-List Tablet for navigation

[Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List]

This will allow you to use a WiFi only iPad for navigation.  Much more robust 
GPS as well.

Dual Electronics XGPS150A Multipurpose Universal Bluetooth GPS Receiver 
with Wide Area Augmentation System and Portable Attachment 
Dual Electronics 
$99.99 $84.95
Tom B


Typoed from my iPhone

Tom Buscaglia
Alera 1990 C&C 37+/40
Vashon Island WA
O 206.463.9200
C 305.409.3660
Skype - thombusc


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Re: Stus-List Bilge pump

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

That's right Russ!  In leakage would be at least 5 times the flow rate of a
typical 1200 gph pump on a good day.  IMO, Using 4000 and 5000 gph pumps
should be the norm and excepted minimum for emergency dewatering pumps.

It also goes to show that plugging the hole and plugging it well is a
bigger priority than dewatering.

Rule 56D 4000 GPH Marine Bilge Pump, Non-Automatic, 12 Volt
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000O8B7LO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_1Q2qCbPE6BPMB

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD





On Sat, Jan 19, 2019, 1:06 PM Russ & Melody via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Josh,
>
> Just for fun I dug out an old textbook and
> estimate that a 1 1/4" through-hull opening about
> 3' and a bit below the waterline will allow 100-120 gpm into the boat.
>
> The Rule 1200 gph hour is probably a lot less
> after discharge head and hoses losses are calculated into it.
>
> If anyone is really worried about emergency pump
> I suggest a nice little gas powered pump. Of
> course it probably will refuse to start when you need it! :)
>
>  Cheers, Russ
>
>
>
> At 12:23 PM 1/15/2019, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >I'm preferential to a float type auto switch
> >wired in parallel with the manual switch.  My
> >auto float switch is mounted above the pump and
> >only turns on when a considerable amount of
> >water accumulates.  Under normal conditions I
> >manually pump the bilge down and the float just
> >catches it when I've abandoned the boat for weeks on end.
> >
> >I have a check valve.  There I said it.  In a
> >perfect I world have a very high capacity
> >"emergency" pump and associated auto float
> >mounted just above the float for the lower
> >"normal" pump.  The emergency pump would not
> >have a check valve.  It would have a high loop
> >to avoid a siphon but nothing to prevent
> >backflow.  It would also be as short and
> >straight of a run as possible to the
> >discharge.  In this way I could ensure the
> >emergency reliability and capacity of an
> >emergency bilge pump by keeping it dry and
> >rarely using it.  I would retain the normal
> >bilge pump's ability to pump the bilge to its
> >lowest reasonable level.  Both would work automatically and manually.
> >
> >The pump I have is 1200 gph (20 gpm) or 4 x 5
> >gallon buckets per minute - more flow than I can
> >move manually but not much.  Once, I
> >accidentally left the transducer plugs out when
> >launching the boat.  We discovered the
> >situation before water got to the floor boards
> >but not before a considerable amount of water
> >had made it in.  Once the situation was
> >corrected the bilge pump continued to run for
> >what seemed like the better part of 5
> >minutes.  The point being, 1200gph sounds
> >big... It isn't.  If I had a shaft seal that
> >failed, the pump almost certainly would not have
> >kept up and that is the least catastrophic emergency I can think of.
> >
> >Josh MuckleyÂ
> >S/V Sea HawkÂ
> >1989 C&C 37+
> >Solomons, MDÂ
> >
>
>
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>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Bilge pump

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Josh,

Just for fun I dug out an old textbook and 
estimate that a 1 1/4" through-hull opening about 
3' and a bit below the waterline will allow 100-120 gpm into the boat.


The Rule 1200 gph hour is probably a lot less 
after discharge head and hoses losses are calculated into it.


If anyone is really worried about emergency pump 
I suggest a nice little gas powered pump. Of 
course it probably will refuse to start when you need it! :)


Cheers, Russ



At 12:23 PM 1/15/2019, you wrote:



I'm preferential to a float type auto switch 
wired in parallel with the manual switch.  My 
auto float switch is mounted above the pump and 
only turns on when a considerable amount of 
water accumulates.  Under normal conditions I 
manually pump the bilge down and the float just 
catches it when I've abandoned the boat for weeks on end.


I have a check valve.  There I said it.  In a 
perfect I world have a very high capacity 
"emergency" pump and associated auto float 
mounted just above the float for the lower 
"normal" pump.  The emergency pump would not 
have a check valve.  It would have a high loop 
to avoid a siphon but nothing to prevent 
backflow.  It would also be as short and 
straight of a run as possible to the 
discharge.  In this way I could ensure the 
emergency reliability and capacity of an 
emergency bilge pump by keeping it dry and 
rarely using it.  I would retain the normal 
bilge pump's ability to pump the bilge to its 
lowest reasonable level.  Both would work automatically and manually.


The pump I have is 1200 gph (20 gpm) or 4 x 5 
gallon buckets per minute - more flow than I can 
move manually but not much.  Once, I 
accidentally left the transducer plugs out when 
launching the boat.  We discovered the 
situation before water got to the floor boards 
but not before a considerable amount of water 
had made it in.  Once the situation was 
corrected the bilge pump continued to run for 
what seemed like the better part of 5 
minutes.  The point being, 1200gph sounds 
big... It isn't.  If I had a shaft seal that 
failed, the pump almost certainly would not have 
kept up and that is the least catastrophic emergency I can think of.


Josh MuckleyÂ
S/V Sea HawkÂ
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MDÂ




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Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I run OpenCPN on an old Samsung Tab S.  It does not have cell capability.
Works fine on satellite GPS service.

I had Navionics on it also.  That worked fine.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 9:57 AM T power via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Hi Bruce,
>
> I was thinking of using a Samsung tablet also. Do you happen to sail
> offshore, If so are you still able to run a Nav program in real time when
> out of range of cell and wifi?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tom Power 
> Invictus
> C&C 30 MK1
> Fredericton, NB
> --
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of Bruce
> Whitmore via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 19, 2019 9:43 AM
> *To:* Rick Brass via CnC-List
> *Cc:* Bruce Whitmore
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am going to mildly disagree with the statements about tablets having to
> be cellular capable.  I have an old (2014) Samsung Galaxy 10.1 tablet that
> is wifi only, and it has GPS capability that I have used on my boat.
>
> So while that statement might be right for other makes and models, it is
> not correct for my tablet.
>
> Kindest Regards,
>
> Bruce Whitmore
>
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

As it was mentioned a few times:

Only Apple devices (iPad) use a combination GPS/cellular radio and therefore, 
in order to use GPS, you need the cellular enabled model.

Generally, all others have a discrete GPS radio, so cellular option has no 
bearing on using the GPS.

Any GPS device can benefit from having an Internet connection (for the initial 
loading of the almanac (satellite positions information) and/or for the rough, 
initial positioning). However, it is not _required_ for its normal operation. 
Additionally, if a device is used frequently and not moved far between uses, 
that initial information is already maintained on the device.

Marek
Ottawa, ON

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Rick Brass via 
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2019 23:44
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Rick Brass 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

As has been pointed out before, you do not need to actually activate the 
cellular service on the tablet, it just needs to be cellular capable. That's 
because the cellular capable units have an internal GPS, which the WiFi only 
units do not. Now, if you have a WiFi network on your boat and it can transmit 
data from your GPS, then you don't even need cellular capability.

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Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

[Dan Sargeant via CnC-List]

You don’t need cell or wifi to run ...say, Navionics, on most tablets or 
phones. The gps operates independently of the networks. And the charts are in 
your device’s memory. My iPhone (IOS) and Samsung tablet (Android) serve as 
excellent chart plotters anywhere. I use Navionics but there are several 
others. Whether you can use them offshore or not depends on what charts you 
download to them. Unless you are going a long way offshore, most of the coastal 
Northeast North America (in my case) charts are sufficient.
Dan Sargeant
Ocean Pearl
C&C32
Lunenburg, NS

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2019, at 11:56, T power  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> I was thinking of using a Samsung tablet also. Do you happen to sail 
> offshore, If so are you still able to run a Nav program in real time when out 
> of range of cell and wifi?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tom Power
> Invictus
> C&C 30 MK1
> Fredericton, NB
> From: CnC-List  on behalf of Bruce Whitmore 
> via CnC-List 
> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2019 9:43 AM
> To: Rick Brass via CnC-List
> Cc: Bruce Whitmore
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation
>  
> Hello all,
> 
> I am going to mildly disagree with the statements about tablets having to be 
> cellular capable.  I have an old (2014) Samsung Galaxy 10.1 tablet that is 
> wifi only, and it has GPS capability that I have used on my boat.
> 
> So while that statement might be right for other makes and models, it is not 
> correct for my tablet.
> 
> Kindest Regards, 
> 
> Bruce Whitmore
> 
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Also, unlike the iPad the Samsung tablets (at least mine) will:

-Have a gps antenna in a non-cellular model.

-Run openCPN.

I use an iPad because I had two already when I went in this direction, but I 
also bought a small entry level Samsung tablet, tried it and it worked fine.

Next upgrade will migrate to Samsung/android.

 I also have a tablet/pc that can be connected to the n2k network via USB 
gateway at the navstation.   


Dave


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 18, 2019, at 11:44 PM, Rick Brass  wrote:
> 
> As has been pointed out before, you do not need to actually activate the 
> cellular service on the tablet, it just needs to be cellular capable. That’s 
> because the cellular capable units have an internal GPS, which the WiFi only 
> units do not. Now, if you have a WiFi network on your boat and it can 
> transmit data from your GPS, then you don’t even need cellular capability.
>  
> I use an old Gen3 IPad with the cell service not activated. I carry it with 
> when I do boat deliveries. It is the only chart plotter on those rare 
> occasions when I sail my 25. It was the defacto chart plotter for the 
> schooner that I was captain of, and was the original chart plotter on the 83 
> foot tour boat I work on.
>  
> But have you thought about buying another brand of tablet? My IPad was a 
> gift, so I’ve used it for the past 10 or 11 years. But I was in process of 
> getting a Samsung Galaxy tablet (on the recommendation of my son in law, who 
> is an IT guy) when I was given the IPad. The Samsung tablet is waterproof and 
> shock proof… and well less than half the cost of a new IPad.
>  
> Rick Brass
> Washington, NC
>  
>  
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Neil E. 
> Andersen via CnC-List
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2019 11:08 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Neil E. Andersen 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation
>  
> Tom,
>  
> The provider decision should be based on who has the best coverage for the 
> areas that you sail in.  I’m on the Chesapeake Bay (Eastern Shore) and AT&T 
> coverage is really bad unless and until you get in range of the Western Shore.
> Neil
> Neil Andersen 
> 1982 C&C 32 FoxFire
> Rock Hall, MD
> neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com
> n...@sjyachts.com
>  
>  
> From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of T power via 
> CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 7:50 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: T power 
> Subject: Stus-List Tablet for navigation
>  
> Hi,
> I would like to use an ipad mini 2 with the navionics app to plan and use for 
> nav purposes on my boat, this will back up my chart plotter and paper charts.
>  
> I read that to use the Navionics app on the water to purchase an ipad that 
> has cellular capability.
>  
> So I'm looking at Best buy and see ipads with 4G AT&T, Verizon, etc... 
>  
> So my Question is; Does it matter what provider is noted because I'm only 
> using the cellular for the Navionics app?
>  
> Thanks for any help.
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Tom
>  
> Tom Power
> Invictus
> C&C 30 MK1
> Fredericton, NB
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Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

[Jerome Tauber via CnC-List]

The older less expensive iPads did not have gps. My friend has one and bought a 
plug in gps for it. You can now get inexpensive WiFi enabled gps or GNSS pucks 
that can interface to the iPad by WiFi or Bluetooth.  These are very nice 
because you can place them where satellite reception is optimal so even if you 
are below deck you get a clear signal. 
GNNS is also very nice because it utilizes US GPS as well as foreign systems 
and operates at 9600 baud rather than 4800. I have one plugged into my computer 
along with OpenCPN and it is fast and deadly accurate. 

GNSS stands for Global Navigation Satellite System, and is the standard generic 
term for satellite navigation systems that provide autonomous geo-spatial 
positioning with global coverage. This term includes e.g. the GPS, GLONASS, 
Galileo, Beidou and other regional systems. GNSS is a term used worldwide The 
advantage to having access to multiple satellites is accuracy, redundancy and 
availability at all times.  Though satellite systems don't often fail, if one 
fails GNSS receivers can pick up signals from other systems.  Also if line of 
sight is obstructed, having access to multiple satellites is also a benefit.  
Common GNSS Systems are GPS, GLONASS, Galileo, Beidou and other regional 
systems.
  
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2019, at 11:25 AM, G Collins via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I don't think out on the water counts as poor signal conditions.  My Sony 
> android tablet has a built in GPS receiver and runs Navionics perfectly, as 
> does my phone (which has no data plan, hence is not getting a location fix 
> via data).
> 
> Do the cheaper iPads not have a GPS chip in them?
> 
> Graham Collins
> Secret Plans
> C&C 35-III #11
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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

[G Collins via CnC-List]

I don't think out on the water counts as poor signal conditions.  My Sony 
android tablet has a built in GPS receiver and runs Navionics perfectly, as 
does my phone (which has no data plan, hence is not getting a location fix via 
data).

Do the cheaper iPads not have a GPS chip in them?

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11

On 2019-01-19 12:17 p.m., Jerome Tauber via CnC-List wrote:
What this discussion is missing is the distinction between stand alone gps and 
assisted or augmented gps found in most mobile or cellular devices. Mobile 
devices having cell service or internet provider can augment gps. If the mobile 
device has no gps and no cell service it can still get a position from WiFi 
connection.  These are usually called location devices rather than gps and will 
only work with internet or cell service within range.  If the device also has a 
gps or has external gps access it will work anywhere that gps signals are 
available which is just about world wide. As long as your charts are downloaded 
on the device it should work anywhere.  The following discussion is from 
Wikipedia.


Standalone/self-ruling GPS 
devices depend solely on 
information from satellites. 
A-GPS augments that by using cell tower data to enhance quality and precision 
when in poor satellite signal conditions. In exceptionally poor signal 
conditions, for example in urban areas, satellite signals may exhibit multipath 
propagation where 
signals skip off structures, or are 
weakened by 
meteorological conditions or tree canopy. Some standalone GPS 
navigators used in poor 
conditions can't fix a position because of satellite signal 
fracture
 and must wait for better satellite reception. A regular GPS unit may need as 
long as 12.5 minutes (the time needed to download the GPS almanac and 
ephemerides) to 
resolve the problem and be able to provide a correct 
location.[2]

An assisted GPS system can address these problems by using external data. 
Utilizing this system can come at a cost to the user. For billing purposes, 
network providers often count this as a data 
access, which can cost money, 
depending on the 
plan.[3]

To be precise, A-GPS features depend mostly on an internet network or 
connection to an 
ISP(or CNP, in the 
case of CP/mobile-phone device linked to a cellular network provider data 
service). A mobile (cell phone, smart phone) device with just an L1 front-end 
radio 
receiverand
 no GPS acquisition, tracking, and positioning engine only works when it has an 
internet connection to an ISP/CNP, where the position fix is calculated 
offboard the device itself. It doesn't work in areas with no coverage or 
internet link (or nearby base transceiver 
station (BTS) towers, 
in the case on CNP service coverage area). Without one of those resources, it 
can't connect to the A-GPS servers usually provided by CNPs. On the other hand, 
a mobile device with a GPS chipset requires no data connection to capture and 
process GPS data into a position solution, since it receives data directly from 
the GPS satellites and is able to calculate a position fix itself. However, the 
availability of a data connection can provide assistance to improve the 
performance of the GPS chip on the mobile device.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2019, at 10:56 AM, T power via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Hi Bruce,

I was thinking of using a Samsung tablet also. Do you happen to sail offshore, 
If so are you still able to run a Nav program in real time when out of range of 
cell and wifi?

Cheers,

Tom Power
Invictus
C&C 30 MK1
Fredericton, NB

From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> on behalf 
of Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2019 9:43 AM
To: Rick Brass via CnC-List
Cc: Bruce Whitmore
Subject: Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

Hello all,

I am going to mildly disagree with the statements about tablets having to be 
cellular capable.  I have an old (2014) Samsung Galaxy 10.1 tablet that is wifi 
only, and it has GPS capability that I have used on my boat.

So while that statement might be right for other makes and models, it is not 
c

Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

[Jerome Tauber via CnC-List]

What this discussion is missing is the distinction between stand alone gps and 
assisted or augmented gps found in most mobile or cellular devices. Mobile 
devices having cell service or internet provider can augment gps. If the mobile 
device has no gps and no cell service it can still get a position from WiFi 
connection.  These are usually called location devices rather than gps and will 
only work with internet or cell service within range.  If the device also has a 
gps or has external gps access it will work anywhere that gps signals are 
available which is just about world wide. As long as your charts are downloaded 
on the device it should work anywhere.  The following discussion is from 
Wikipedia. 

Standalone/self-ruling GPS devices depend solely on information from 
satellites. A-GPS augments that by using cell tower data to enhance quality and 
precision when in poor satellite signal conditions. In exceptionally poor 
signal conditions, for example in urban areas, satellite signals may exhibit 
multipath propagation where signals skip off structures, or are weakened by 
meteorological conditions or tree canopy. Some standalone GPS navigators used 
in poor conditions can't fix a position because of satellite signal fracture 
and must wait for better satellite reception. A regular GPS unit may need as 
long as 12.5 minutes (the time needed to download the GPS almanac and 
ephemerides) to resolve the problem and be able to provide a correct 
location.[2]

An assisted GPS system can address these problems by using external data. 
Utilizing this system can come at a cost to the user. For billing purposes, 
network providers often count this as a data access, which can cost money, 
depending on the plan.[3]

To be precise, A-GPS features depend mostly on an internet network or 
connection to an ISP(or CNP, in the case of CP/mobile-phone device linked to a 
cellular network provider data service). A mobile (cell phone, smart phone) 
device with just an L1 front-end radio receiverand no GPS acquisition, 
tracking, and positioning engine only works when it has an internet connection 
to an ISP/CNP, where the position fix is calculated offboard the device itself. 
It doesn't work in areas with no coverage or internet link (or nearby base 
transceiver station (BTS) towers, in the case on CNP service coverage area). 
Without one of those resources, it can't connect to the A-GPS servers usually 
provided by CNPs. On the other hand, a mobile device with a GPS chipset 
requires no data connection to capture and process GPS data into a position 
solution, since it receives data directly from the GPS satellites and is able 
to calculate a position fix itself. However, the availability of a data 
connection can provide assistance to improve the performance of the GPS chip on 
the mobile device.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2019, at 10:56 AM, T power via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> I was thinking of using a Samsung tablet also. Do you happen to sail 
> offshore, If so are you still able to run a Nav program in real time when out 
> of range of cell and wifi?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tom Power
> Invictus
> C&C 30 MK1
> Fredericton, NB
> From: CnC-List  on behalf of Bruce Whitmore 
> via CnC-List 
> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2019 9:43 AM
> To: Rick Brass via CnC-List
> Cc: Bruce Whitmore
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation
>  
> Hello all,
> 
> I am going to mildly disagree with the statements about tablets having to be 
> cellular capable.  I have an old (2014) Samsung Galaxy 10.1 tablet that is 
> wifi only, and it has GPS capability that I have used on my boat.
> 
> So while that statement might be right for other makes and models, it is not 
> correct for my tablet.
> 
> Kindest Regards, 
> 
> Bruce Whitmore
> 
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

[T power via CnC-List]

Hi Bruce,

I was thinking of using a Samsung tablet also. Do you happen to sail offshore, 
If so are you still able to run a Nav program in real time when out of range of 
cell and wifi?

Cheers,

Tom Power
Invictus
C&C 30 MK1
Fredericton, NB

From: CnC-List  on behalf of Bruce Whitmore via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2019 9:43 AM
To: Rick Brass via CnC-List
Cc: Bruce Whitmore
Subject: Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

Hello all,

I am going to mildly disagree with the statements about tablets having to be 
cellular capable.  I have an old (2014) Samsung Galaxy 10.1 tablet that is wifi 
only, and it has GPS capability that I have used on my boat.

So while that statement might be right for other makes and models, it is not 
correct for my tablet.

Kindest Regards,

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net



___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I am going to mildly disagree with the statements about tablets having to be 
cellular capable.  I have an old (2014) Samsung Galaxy 10.1 tablet that is wifi 
only, and it has GPS capability that I have used on my boat.
So while that statement might be right for other makes and models, it is not 
correct for my tablet.
Kindest Regards, 

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
 


  ___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation

[T power via CnC-List]

I was just going to ask the question if I could use a Samsung tablet, they are 
half the price of the i pads. The tablet is going to be a backup. Basically I 
want to plan my route off ship. Be able to transfer the route to my chart 
plotter either Bluetooth, I also like the idea of having the tablet mirror the 
chart plotter while under way.

Cheers.

Tom Power
Invictus
C&C 30 MK1
Fredericton, NB

From: CnC-List  on behalf of Rick Brass via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2019 12:44 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Rick Brass
Subject: Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation


As has been pointed out before, you do not need to actually activate the 
cellular service on the tablet, it just needs to be cellular capable. That’s 
because the cellular capable units have an internal GPS, which the WiFi only 
units do not. Now, if you have a WiFi network on your boat and it can transmit 
data from your GPS, then you don’t even need cellular capability.



I use an old Gen3 IPad with the cell service not activated. I carry it with 
when I do boat deliveries. It is the only chart plotter on those rare occasions 
when I sail my 25. It was the defacto chart plotter for the schooner that I was 
captain of, and was the original chart plotter on the 83 foot tour boat I work 
on.



But have you thought about buying another brand of tablet? My IPad was a gift, 
so I’ve used it for the past 10 or 11 years. But I was in process of getting a 
Samsung Galaxy tablet (on the recommendation of my son in law, who is an IT 
guy) when I was given the IPad. The Samsung tablet is waterproof and shock 
proof… and well less than half the cost of a new IPad.



Rick Brass

Washington, NC







From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Neil E. 
Andersen via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2019 11:08 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Neil E. Andersen 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Tablet for navigation



Tom,



The provider decision should be based on who has the best coverage for the 
areas that you sail in.  I’m on the Chesapeake Bay (Eastern Shore) and AT&T 
coverage is really bad unless and until you get in range of the Western Shore.

Neil

Neil Andersen
1982 C&C 32 FoxFire

Rock Hall, MD

neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com

n...@sjyachts.com





From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> On Behalf 
Of T power via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 7:50 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: T power mailto:sv_invic...@outlook.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Tablet for navigation



Hi,

I would like to use an ipad mini 2 with the navionics app to plan and use for 
nav purposes on my boat, this will back up my chart plotter and paper charts.



I read that to use the Navionics app on the water to purchase an ipad that has 
cellular capability.



So I'm looking at Best buy and see ipads with 4G AT&T, Verizon, etc...



So my Question is; Does it matter what provider is noted because I'm only using 
the cellular for the Navionics app?



Thanks for any help.



Cheers,



Tom



Tom Power

Invictus

C&C 30 MK1

Fredericton, NB
___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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