Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Schiller]

Fred,

Yeh, we went from Houghton (72-77) to Kalamazoo (by way of Dallas for 11 
years).  We now reside in a little town that defines the "Lake Effect" zone.  I 
knew that I moved back to the right place when I was stopped at a traffic light 
with snow coming down so hard that I couldn't tell what color it was and the 
radio was broadcasting a weather report that said to expect some light snow 
showers.  I have busted through snow that was over the hood of my Jeep Cherokee 
just to get to the barn and my tractor mounted snow blower.

BTW, sorry for the late reply on this but my "smart phone" wasn't sending 
emails and wasn't telling me that it wasn't.

Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C&C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair"
On the hard in South Haven, Mi


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 10, 2012, at 10:35 AM, Frederick G Street  wrote:

> True -- but they're entirely surrounded by the lake up there on the 
> Keeweenaw.  I was thinking of the downwind plumes like they get in Buffalo.  
> We don't see that on the western end of the lake.  And we don't have anything 
> like the upper Great Lakes upwind of us to provide the moisture, like they do 
> in the lower Lakes.
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
> 
> On Oct 4, 2012, at 10:25 AM, schil...@bloomingdalecom.net wrote:
> 
>> Fred,
>> 
>> Some places do get significant lake effect snow.  Houghton comes to mind 
>> with a 100 year average of 240 inches per year and a record of 396 inches.
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Frederick G Street]

True -- but they're entirely surrounded by the lake up there on the Keeweenaw.  
I was thinking of the downwind plumes like they get in Buffalo.  We don't see 
that on the western end of the lake.  And we don't have anything like the upper 
Great Lakes upwind of us to provide the moisture, like they do in the lower 
Lakes.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Oct 4, 2012, at 10:25 AM, schil...@bloomingdalecom.net wrote:

> Fred,
> 
> Some places do get significant lake effect snow.  Houghton comes to mind with 
> a 100 year average of 240 inches per year and a record of 396 inches.

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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Rick Brass]

I still have a memory of visiting a high school buddy who went to Michigan 
Tech, and going tobogganing down a snow drift out of a second story window in 
the dorm. Crap that’s a lot of snow.

 

Rick Brass

BSME GMI 1974

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jake 
Brodersen
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 8:38 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

 

Neil,

 

I’ll vouch for the 396 inches.  I was there during the winter of 78-79.  Even 
for a Youper, that was a lot of snow!

 

Jake

 

BSCS Michigan Tech 1979

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
schil...@bloomingdalecom.net
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 11:25 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

 

Fred,

 

Some places do get significant lake effect snow.  Houghton comes to mind with a 
100 year average of 240 inches per year and a record of 396 inches.

 

Neil Schiller

1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7

(C & C 35, Mark I)

"Corsair"

BSME Michigan Tech, 1977 

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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Jake Brodersen]

Neil,

 

I’ll vouch for the 396 inches.  I was there during the winter of 78-79.  Even 
for a Youper, that was a lot of snow!

 

Jake

 

BSCS Michigan Tech 1979

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
schil...@bloomingdalecom.net
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 11:25 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

 

Fred,

 

Some places do get significant lake effect snow.  Houghton comes to mind with a 
100 year average of 240 inches per year and a record of 396 inches.

 

Neil Schiller

1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7

(C & C 35, Mark I)

"Corsair"

BSME Michigan Tech, 1977 

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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[schil...@bloomingdalecom.net]

Fred,

Some places do get significant lake effect snow.  Houghton comes to mind with a 
100 year average of 240 inches per year and a record of 396 inches.

Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C & C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair"
BSME Michigan Tech, 1977

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Frederick G Street  wrote:

>We don't see much lake effect snow on Superior, as we're upwind of 
>everything...
>
>-- Fred
>
>On Oct 3, 2012, at 2:12 PM, "Neil Andersen"  
>wrote:
>
>> I have heard that there is a call for a greater than usual volume of Lake 
>> effect snowfall this year due to the higher than usual Lake temperature…
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick 
>> G Street
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:50 AM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
>>  
>> Speaking just for Lake Superior, we're in a drought situation here right 
>> now, so inflow is much reduced; but the biggest culprit seems to be the 
>> warmer than usual winters, which lead to significantly reduced ice cover, 
>> which in turn leads to greatly increased evaporation.
>> 
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>>  
>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:38 AM, Robert Mazza wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> OK Stu, here's a dumb question:
>>  
>> If the water is leaving the Upper Great Lakes faster than normal, why isn't 
>> the level of the Lower Great Lakes rising with all that influx of water? We 
>> keep our boat in Hamilton, Ontario, and the water level at the fixed docks 
>> at the Royal Hamilton Yacht Club is so low now that I have to sit on my butt 
>> on the dock with my legs dangling in space before a gingerly lower myself on 
>> to the deck of Trillium now several feet below dock level. I can't see how 
>> putting baffles in the St. Clair River is going to improve the water level 
>> on Lake Ontario. There seems to be something more at work here than water 
>> flow through the St. Clair River. It probably has to do more with lack of 
>> snow fall and snow build up in the winter with resulting reduced run off in 
>> the spring, as well as changes in precipitation generally. Global warming 
>> (or Climate Change)  perhaps? I don't have an answer, but this does seem to 
>> be a problem facing the whole Great Lakes, not just the Upper Lakes.
>>  
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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>
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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[JOHN D IRVIN]

Similar issue on the Ottawa River (Lac Deschenes).


From: Paul Fountain 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 4:28:17 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels


Rich,

It's a serious issue on the Great Lakes right now - many clubs and marinas on 
Lake Ontario are not accessible to boats drawing over 5 1/2 feet some are 
pulling deeper drafts already. I've had to extend my dock skirt down 2+ feet so 
I don't go under the dock. 

On the upper lakes I have friends with cottages on islands that are having to 
extend docks and take other actions to get to the islands - no fun!

Wish we had tides even wind tides right now!

Paul. :) 


On 2012-10-03, at 3:54 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:


I don't understand all the flap over water levels. Ours goes up and down over 
6' every few hours. Up to 40' on the Bay of Fundy. No sweat. 
>
>Rich Knowles 
>Indigo - C&C LF38
>Halifax - Nova Scotia
>
>
>
>
>On 2012-10-03, at 16:14, Frederick G Street  wrote:
>
>
>We don't see much lake effect snow on Superior, as we're upwind of 
>everything...
>>
>>
>>-- Fred
>>
>>On Oct 3, 2012, at 2:12 PM, "Neil Andersen"  
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>I have heard that there is a call for a greater than usual volume of Lake 
>>effect snowfall this year due to the higher than usual Lake temperature…
>>> 
>>>From:CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick 
>>>G Street
>>>Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:50 AM
>>>To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>>Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
>>> 
>>>Speaking just for Lake Superior, we're in a drought situation here right 
>>>now, so inflow is much reduced; but the biggest culprit seems to be the 
>>>warmer than usual winters, which lead to significantly reduced ice cover, 
>>>which in turn leads to greatly increased evaporation.
>>>
>>>Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>>>S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>>> 
>>>On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:38 AM, Robert Mazza wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>OK Stu, here's a dumb question:
>>> 
>>>If the water is leaving the Upper Great Lakes faster than normal, why isn't 
>>>the level of the Lower Great Lakes rising with all that influx of water? We 
>>>keep our boat in Hamilton, Ontario, and the water level at the fixed docks 
>>>at the Royal Hamilton Yacht Club is so low now that I have to sit on my butt 
>>>on the dock with my legs dangling in space before a gingerly lower myself on 
>>>to the deck of Trillium now several feet below dock level. I can't see how 
>>>putting baffles in the St. Clair River is going to improve the water level 
>>>on Lake Ontario. There seems to be something more at work here than water 
>>>flow through the St. Clair River. It probably has to do more with lack of 
>>>snow fall and snow build up in the winter with resulting reduced run off in 
>>>the spring, as well as changes in precipitation generally. Global warming 
>>>(or Climate Change)  perhaps? I don't have an answer, but this does seem to 
>>>be a problem facing the whole Great Lakes, not just the
 Upper Lakes. 
>>> 
>>___
>>>This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>>http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/
>>>CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>>
>___
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>>
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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes water levels

[Sam Salter]

It's all relative!

The lake I sail on is at 4,260 ft.
I live just down the road.
My sense is that when the ice caps melt I'll have beach front property.
You guys will be up to your armpits - or deeper!!!

sam :-)
C&C 26  Liquorice
Ghost Lake  Alberta

On 2012-10-04, at 7:42 PM, "Bob Hickson"  wrote:

> I am no expert but I know that the levels of the lakes go through natural 
> cycles over a span of several years.
>  
> http://www.waterlevels.gc.ca/C&A/netgraphs_e.html
>  
> If you look at the historic levels in the lakes, it seems that the levels in 
> recent years have been more stable than in the past
>  
>  
> For a forecast of the next 30 days you can follow this link (forecast is 
> updated  frequently)
>  
> http://www.lre.usace.army.mil/greatlakes/hh/greatlakeswaterlevels/waterlevelforecasts/weeklygreatlakeswaterlevels/index.cfm
>  
> The longer term forecast for Lake Ontario is for it to continue low through 
> the winter and into the spring L
>  
> Best regards,
> Bob Hickson, P. Eng, RHI, CEA
> C&C 29-2 Flying Colours
> (416) 919-2297
> bobhick...@rogers.com
>  
>  __/) 
>  
> ___
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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Walt Dickie]

You’re right. Here’s a good discussion: 
http://www.iugls.org/the-glaciers-are-long-gone-but-theyre-still-affecting-water-levels.aspx.
 It’s not a huge effect, but it’s not nothing. “… the apparent effect of GIA 
(Glacial Isostatic Adjustment) accounted for 4-5 centimeters (up to 2 inches) 
of a 23 centimeter (9 inch) decline in the head difference between Lakes 
Michigan-Huron and Erie between 1963 and 2006.” That’s roughly 4 centimeters in 
40 years, or ~.1 centimeter/year.

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Fair, Mike
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 3:37 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

I also believe the whole area is slowly lifting up (rebounding) after being 
burdened by the weight of a mile or so of ice during the last ice age.

Mike
Cio Cio San
Padanaram, MA

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 4:27 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

This is an amazing list.  Some people may not think it important, but I 
appreciate the detailed explanation of what is causing Great Lake water level 
problems, and the detail of why is just excellent.  Now I think I understand.  
And no joke, water levels are totally sailing related.

Thanks,
Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ

From: "Walt Dickie" mailto:wa...@crresearch.com>>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 3:49:22 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

Absolutely right. Most people around the Chicago area, where I live, look at 
the size of Lake Michigan and just assume it has a big drainage area, which it 
doesn’t. There’s a ridge that runs through the western suburbs that demarcates 
the lake’s drainage from the Mississippi’s. When I go downtown I go past the 
sign marking the “Continental Divide” in Oak Park, IL; it’s about 2 miles from 
my house and 10 miles from the shore. The rain that runs off my roof goes into 
the Gulf of Mexico, not the lake.

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ronald B. 
Frerker
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:26 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

Levels on the Mississippi should have no effect.  The river watershed is not 
connected to the Great Lakes.  Most of the Great Lakes have little watershed 
area; well at least in the US.  For eg., the Superior watershed only goes back 
50mi from the western shore.  So a light winter can have a dramatic effect if 
the flow out of the lake system is normal.
And as I believe Fred pointed out, evaporation is a major factor, especially 
when the watershed area is small relative to the surface water area.
Usually there is little maneuvering room for changing dam releases on the upper 
Miss.  The changes are usually made on the big dams of the Missouri since 40% 
of the lower Miss' summer flow is from the Missouri.
Ron
Wild Cheri
C&C 30
STL


--- On Wed, 10/3/12, Chuck S 
mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net>> wrote:

From: Chuck S mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 5:13 PM
Great Lakes water level:
Just guessing, but isn't the fall in lake levels due to lower rainfall amounts?
Also, didn't they raise the level of the Mississippi (by lowering dam levels 
upstream to feed it) because they need to keep channels filled for commercial 
shipping?
Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ

From: "dwight veinot" 
mailto:dwightvei...@hfx.eastlink.ca>>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 6:07:20 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

So what could the government do???  Has someone interfered with nature or 
what???



Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stu
Sent: October 3, 2012 1:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels



The main intention of my first email, was to pass along information on what is 
happening to the water levels in the Great Lakes and to let people know that 
the governments are doing nothing to improve the situation.  Allowing the level 
in 1 lake to drop another 5 feet is going to destroy fishing, boating and most 
recreational activities on the lake.



Don't shoot the messenger -- point the gun at the politicians.



Stu





No virus found in this message.
C

Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Fair, Mike]

I also believe the whole area is slowly lifting up (rebounding) after being 
burdened by the weight of a mile or so of ice during the last ice age. 

 

Mike

Cio Cio San

Padanaram, MA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 4:27 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

 

This is an amazing list.  Some people may not think it important, but I 
appreciate the detailed explanation of what is causing Great Lake water level 
problems, and the detail of why is just excellent.  Now I think I understand.  
And no joke, water levels are totally sailing related.

Thanks,

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ



From: "Walt Dickie" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 3:49:22 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels




Absolutely right. Most people around the Chicago area, where I live, look at 
the size of Lake Michigan and just assume it has a big drainage area, which it 
doesn’t. There’s a ridge that runs through the western suburbs that demarcates 
the lake’s drainage from the Mississippi’s. When I go downtown I go past the 
sign marking the “Continental Divide” in Oak Park, IL; it’s about 2 miles from 
my house and 10 miles from the shore. The rain that runs off my roof goes into 
the Gulf of Mexico, not the lake.

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ronald B. 
Frerker
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:26 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

 

Levels on the Mississippi should have no effect.  The river watershed is not 
connected to the Great Lakes.  Most of the Great Lakes have little watershed 
area; well at least in the US.  For eg., the Superior watershed only goes back 
50mi from the western shore.  So a light winter can have a dramatic effect if 
the flow out of the lake system is normal.

And as I believe Fred pointed out, evaporation is a major factor, especially 
when the watershed area is small relative to the surface water area.

Usually there is little maneuvering room for changing dam releases on the upper 
Miss.  The changes are usually made on the big dams of the Missouri since 40% 
of the lower Miss' summer flow is from the Missouri.

Ron

Wild Cheri

C&C 30

STL



--- On Wed, 10/3/12, Chuck S  wrote:


From: Chuck S 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 5:13 PM

Great Lakes water level:
Just guessing, but isn't the fall in lake levels due to lower rainfall amounts? 
 
Also, didn't they raise the level of the Mississippi (by lowering dam levels 
upstream to feed it) because they need to keep channels filled for commercial 
shipping?

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ



From: "dwight veinot" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 6:07:20 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

So what could the government do???  Has someone interfered with nature or 
what???

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stu
Sent: October 3, 2012 1:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

 

The main intention of my first email, was to pass along information on what is 
happening to the water levels in the Great Lakes and to let people know that 
the governments are doing nothing to improve the situation.  Allowing the level 
in 1 lake to drop another 5 feet is going to destroy fishing, boating and most 
recreational activities on the lake.

 

Don't shoot the messenger -- point the gun at the politicians.

 

Stu

 



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5307 - Release Date: 10/03/12


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-Inline Attachment Follows-

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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Colin Kilgour]

NOAA has a good page on water levels for all 5 lakes.  It looks like
Ontario is down about a foot from the 15 year average and only slightly
lower than a typical September.  Lake Erie is enjoying a pretty much a
normal year.

Michigan and Huron however are down about 3 feet from the 15 year average
and appear to be getting lower each year. In fact, these lakes haven't had
"average" levels since 1999.  (Maybe it's time to update the average!)

Given that the North Channel of Georgian Bay is perennially ranked as one
of the planet's top cruising grounds (see: 50 Places to Sail Before you Die
(admittedly a US-centric book)) you'd think the cruising community would
start to get on this.

Here's the water level link.
http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/data/now/wlevels/dbd/

Cheers,
Colin

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Walt Dickie  wrote:

> Absolutely right. Most people around the Chicago area, where I live, look
> at the size of Lake Michigan and just assume it has a big drainage area,
> which it doesn’t. There’s a ridge that runs through the western suburbs
> that demarcates the lake’s drainage from the Mississippi’s. When I go
> downtown I go past the sign marking the “Continental Divide” in Oak Park,
> IL; it’s about 2 miles from my house and 10 miles from the shore. The rain
> that runs off my roof goes into the Gulf of Mexico, not the lake.
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Ronald
> B. Frerker
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:26 PM
>
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
>
> ** **
>
> Levels on the Mississippi should have no effect.  The river watershed is
> not connected to the Great Lakes.  Most of the Great Lakes have little
> watershed area; well at least in the US.  For eg., the Superior watershed
> only goes back 50mi from the western shore.  So a light winter can have a
> dramatic effect if the flow out of the lake system is normal.
>
> And as I believe Fred pointed out, evaporation is a major factor,
> especially when the watershed area is small relative to the surface water
> area.
>
> Usually there is little maneuvering room for changing dam releases on the
> upper Miss.  The changes are usually made on the big dams of the Missouri
> since 40% of the lower Miss' summer flow is from the Missouri.
>
> Ron****
>
> Wild Cheri
>
> C&C 30
>
> STL
>
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 10/3/12, Chuck S * wrote:
>
>
> From: Chuck S 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Date: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 5:13 PM
>
> Great Lakes water level:
> Just guessing, but isn't the fall in lake levels due to lower rainfall
> amounts?
> Also, didn't they raise the level of the Mississippi (by lowering dam
> levels upstream to feed it) because they need to keep channels filled for
> commercial shipping?****
>
> Chuck
> *Resolute*
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
> --
>
> *From: *"dwight veinot" 
> *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 3, 2012 6:07:20 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
>
> So what could the government do???  Has someone interfered with nature or
> what???
>
>  ****
>
> Dwight Veinot
>
> C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
>
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
> --
>
> *From:* CnC-List 
> [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
> *On Behalf Of *Stu
> *Sent:* October 3, 2012 1:14 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
>
>  
>
> The main intention of my first email, was to pass along information on
> what is happening to the water levels in the Great Lakes and to let people
> know that the governments are doing nothing to improve the situation.
> Allowing the level in 1 lake to drop another 5 feet is going to destroy
> fishing, boating and most recreational activities on the lake.
>
>  
>
> Don't shoot the messenger -- point the gun at the politicians.
>
>  
>
> Stu
>
>  
> --
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5307 - Release Date: 10/03/12*
> ***
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>
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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Chuck S]

This is an amazing list. Some people may not think it important, but I 
appreciate the detailed explanation of what is causing Great Lake water level 
problems, and the detail of why is just excellent. Now I think I understand. 
And no joke, water levels are totally sailing related. 

Thanks, 

Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: "Walt Dickie"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 3:49:22 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels 




Absolutely right. Most people around the Chicago area, where I live, look at 
the size of Lake Michigan and just assume it has a big drainage area, which it 
doesn’t. There’s a ridge that runs through the western suburbs that demarcates 
the lake’s drainage from the Mississippi’s. When I go downtown I go past the 
sign marking the “Continental Divide” in Oak Park, IL; it’s about 2 miles from 
my house and 10 miles from the shore. The rain that runs off my roof goes into 
the Gulf of Mexico, not the lake. 




From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ronald B. 
Frerker 
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:26 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels 



Levels on the Mississippi should have no effect. The river watershed is not 
connected to the Great Lakes. Most of the Great Lakes have little watershed 
area; well at least in the US. For eg., the Superior watershed only goes back 
50mi from the western shore. So a light winter can have a dramatic effect if 
the flow out of the lake system is normal. 


And as I believe Fred pointed out, evaporation is a major factor, especially 
when the watershed area is small relative to the surface water area. 


Usually there is little maneuvering room for changing dam releases on the upper 
Miss. The changes are usually made on the big dams of the Missouri since 40% of 
the lower Miss' summer flow is from the Missouri. 


Ron 


Wild Cheri 


C&C 30 


STL 




--- On Wed, 10/3/12, Chuck S < cscheaf...@comcast.net > wrote: 


From: Chuck S < cscheaf...@comcast.net > 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Date: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 5:13 PM 




Great Lakes water level: 
Just guessing, but isn't the fall in lake levels due to lower rainfall amounts? 
Also, didn't they raise the level of the Mississippi (by lowering dam levels 
upstream to feed it) because they need to keep channels filled for commercial 
shipping? 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 



From: "dwight veinot" < dwightvei...@hfx.eastlink.ca > 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 6:07:20 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels 


So what could the government do??? Has someone interfered with nature or 
what??? 




Dwight Veinot 

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna 

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS 




From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com ] On Behalf Of Stu 
Sent: October 3, 2012 1:14 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels 




The main intention of my first email, was to pass along information on what is 
happening to the water levels in the Great Lakes and to let people know that 
the governments are doing nothing to improve the situation. Allowing the level 
in 1 lake to drop another 5 feet is going to destroy fishing, boating and most 
recreational activities on the lake. 





Don't shoot the messenger -- point the gun at the politicians. 





Stu 






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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5307 - Release Date: 10/03/12 


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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Walt Dickie]

Absolutely right. Most people around the Chicago area, where I live, look at 
the size of Lake Michigan and just assume it has a big drainage area, which it 
doesn't. There's a ridge that runs through the western suburbs that demarcates 
the lake's drainage from the Mississippi's. When I go downtown I go past the 
sign marking the "Continental Divide" in Oak Park, IL; it's about 2 miles from 
my house and 10 miles from the shore. The rain that runs off my roof goes into 
the Gulf of Mexico, not the lake.

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ronald B. 
Frerker
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:26 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

Levels on the Mississippi should have no effect.  The river watershed is not 
connected to the Great Lakes.  Most of the Great Lakes have little watershed 
area; well at least in the US.  For eg., the Superior watershed only goes back 
50mi from the western shore.  So a light winter can have a dramatic effect if 
the flow out of the lake system is normal.
And as I believe Fred pointed out, evaporation is a major factor, especially 
when the watershed area is small relative to the surface water area.
Usually there is little maneuvering room for changing dam releases on the upper 
Miss.  The changes are usually made on the big dams of the Missouri since 40% 
of the lower Miss' summer flow is from the Missouri.
Ron
Wild Cheri
C&C 30
STL


--- On Wed, 10/3/12, Chuck S 
mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net>> wrote:

From: Chuck S mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 5:13 PM
Great Lakes water level:
Just guessing, but isn't the fall in lake levels due to lower rainfall amounts?
Also, didn't they raise the level of the Mississippi (by lowering dam levels 
upstream to feed it) because they need to keep channels filled for commercial 
shipping?
Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ

From: "dwight veinot" 
mailto:dwightvei...@hfx.eastlink.ca>>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 6:07:20 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

So what could the government do???  Has someone interfered with nature or 
what???



Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stu
Sent: October 3, 2012 1:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels



The main intention of my first email, was to pass along information on what is 
happening to the water levels in the Great Lakes and to let people know that 
the governments are doing nothing to improve the situation.  Allowing the level 
in 1 lake to drop another 5 feet is going to destroy fishing, boating and most 
recreational activities on the lake.



Don't shoot the messenger -- point the gun at the politicians.



Stu





No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com>
Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5307 - Release Date: 10/03/12

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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Ronald B. Frerker]

Where are you located Marek?Ron

--- On Thu, 10/4/12, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:

From: Marek Dziedzic 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Thursday, October 4, 2012, 10:30 AM



 
 

There is also the effect of the post-glacial rebound 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-glacial_rebound). 
The evaporation (esp. during winter) and much lower precipitation (there were 
some 6 months of near (or real) draught) create a perfect storm for the lower 
water levels.
 
Possibly, time to move to wing keel (or centre board)? I 
did (now all the racers will chime in to condemn the move). But we have the low 
water levels for at least three years now (not on the Great Lakes, but the 
water 
level problem is common). Any boat with more then 5ft draft is stuck in the 
harbour for at least half of the season; and sometimes we have even less than 
that. With my 3ft6in darft I am sailing (granted, less efficiently) and the 
racers are not.
 
Marek
 

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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Marek Dziedzic]

There is also the effect of the post-glacial rebound 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-glacial_rebound). The evaporation (esp. 
during winter) and much lower precipitation (there were some 6 months of near 
(or real) draught) create a perfect storm for the lower water levels.

Possibly, time to move to wing keel (or centre board)? I did (now all the 
racers will chime in to condemn the move). But we have the low water levels for 
at least three years now (not on the Great Lakes, but the water level problem 
is common). Any boat with more then 5ft draft is stuck in the harbour for at 
least half of the season; and sometimes we have even less than that. With my 
3ft6in darft I am sailing (granted, less efficiently) and the racers are not.

Marek
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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Ronald B. Frerker]

During a drought like we had this summer, definitely yes.  Again related to 
drainage area.What I'm not overly familiar with is how far the watershed of the 
GL goes into Canada.  Is it the same narrow band as in the US?RonWild CheriC&C 
30STL

--- On Thu, 10/4/12, Stevan Plavsa  wrote:

From: Stevan Plavsa 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Thursday, October 4, 2012, 8:19 AM

What about water use? Irrigation, municipal, etc? Is that a factor?
SteveC&C 32Toronto

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 12:40 AM, Ronald B. Frerker  wrote:

Mostly makes sense.  However, flow through the Chicago canal to the Mississippi 
by way of the  Illinois doesn't ever cause much more than flushing a toilet in 
MPLS.  The Chicago was diverted to the Illinois to keep Chicago sewage out of 
Lake Michigan.  The canal just allows for traffic between the river and the 
lake given the river course change.
Also, I believe someone mentioned the dredging earlier, but IIRC, flow rate 
would not be as related to river depth as to the drop rate of the river bottom 
and the height of water column of the upper lakes.  If only a section was 
dredged and not the entire river, I would think the flow rate would not be 
significantly different due to dredging.
I'm not overly familiar with that section of the country, but it does sound 
more like a weather problem than a man-made
 one.RonWild CheriC&C 30STL

--- On Wed, 10/3/12, Alex Giannelia  wrote:


From: Alex Giannelia 
Subject: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Date: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 5:31 PM


Stu is right to point this out.  We need to listen and to do something.  Here 
is my background based on what I do for a living and who I do it for.

This issue is always going to be a difficult one.  I am in the aerial mapping 
business and we have seen projects come out either because the lake levels were 
too high and caused property damaging erosion (1988-1990 comes to mind) that 
needed to be mapped for?  The IJC. So they are
 looking at this.


There are four drain plugs in the system that I know of,
1  Jackfish River to divert to hydro power in the James Bay
1) Chicago Canal to flood the Mississippi for shipping
2) Oswego to flood the Hudson

3) St. Lawrence which also drives shipping and hydroelectric

These are supposed to balanced, and if the scientists were running the show, 
they probably would be, but politicians are, so the squeaky hinge gets the 
flow, so the St. Clair River deal just put a kibosh on everything because it 
accelerates the flown to Erie which due to its shallow nature is a great 
evaporator.


No one figured on losing ice the way we have on all the lakes.  I photographed 
Lake Ontario in Feb 1978, the last time it had more than 50% cover.

Counting on this evaporation to create more snow is a nice wish, but as one guy 
on this list pointed out, Superior is upwind of everything, so don't count on 
it.


WE
 ARE THE REASON.  AND WHEN WE EITHER CHANGE OUR WAYS, OR GET POLITICIANS TO 
CHANGE THEM FOR US, THE SITUATION WILL CHANGE FOR THE BETTER, BUT IF WE DO 
NOTHING, THE WATER WILL EVAPORATE AND DUMP DOWNWIND INTO THE OCEAN EITHER AS 
SNOW OR RAIN.


My .02 worth.


ALEX GIANNELIA

CC 35-II (1974) WILL BE RENAMED
ON THE HARD SINCE NOV. 2006 and if the lake levels drop more, may be there 
forever  ;>}
Toronto Ontario









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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Stevan Plavsa]

What about water use? Irrigation, municipal, etc? Is that a factor?

Steve
C&C 32
Toronto

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 12:40 AM, Ronald B. Frerker wrote:

> Mostly makes sense.  However, flow through the Chicago canal to
> the Mississippi by way of the  Illinois doesn't ever cause much more than
> flushing a toilet in MPLS.  The Chicago was diverted to the Illinois to
> keep Chicago sewage out of Lake Michigan.  The canal just allows for
> traffic between the river and the lake given the river course change.
> Also, I believe someone mentioned the dredging earlier, but IIRC, flow
> rate would not be as related to river depth as to the drop rate of the
> river bottom and the height of water column of the upper lakes.  If only a
> section was dredged and not the entire river, I would think the flow rate
> would not be significantly different due to dredging.
> I'm not overly familiar with that section of the country, but it does
> sound more like a weather problem than a man-made one.
> Ron
> Wild Cheri
> C&C 30
> STL
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 10/3/12, Alex Giannelia * wrote:
>
>
> From: Alex Giannelia 
> Subject: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
> Date: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 5:31 PM
>
>
> Stu is right to point this out.  We need to listen and to do something.
> Here is my background based on what I do for a living and who I do it for.
>
> This issue is always going to be a difficult one.  I am in the aerial
> mapping business and we have seen projects come out either because the lake
> levels were too high and caused property damaging erosion (1988-1990 comes
> to mind) that needed to be mapped for?  The IJC. So they are looking at
> this.
>
>
> There are four drain plugs in the system that I know of,
> 1  Jackfish River to divert to hydro power in the James Bay
> 1) Chicago Canal to flood the Mississippi for shipping
> 2) Oswego to flood the Hudson
> 3) St. Lawrence which also drives shipping and hydroelectric
>
> These are supposed to balanced, and if the scientists were running the
> show, they probably would be, but politicians are, so the squeaky hinge
> gets the flow, so the St. Clair River deal just put a kibosh on everything
> because it accelerates the flown to Erie which due to its shallow nature is
> a great evaporator.
>
> No one figured on losing ice the way we have on all the lakes.  I
> photographed Lake Ontario in Feb 1978, the last time it had more than 50%
> cover.
>
> Counting on this evaporation to create more snow is a nice wish, but as
> one guy on this list pointed out, Superior is upwind of everything, so
> don't count on it.
>
> WE ARE THE REASON.  AND WHEN WE EITHER CHANGE OUR WAYS, OR GET POLITICIANS
> TO CHANGE THEM FOR US, THE SITUATION WILL CHANGE FOR THE BETTER, BUT IF WE
> DO NOTHING, THE WATER WILL EVAPORATE AND DUMP DOWNWIND INTO THE OCEAN
> EITHER AS SNOW OR RAIN.
>
> My .02 worth.
>
>
> ALEX GIANNELIA
>
> CC 35-II (1974) WILL BE RENAMED
> ON THE HARD SINCE NOV. 2006 and if the lake levels drop more, may be there
> forever  ;>}
> Toronto Ontario
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Ronald B. Frerker]

Mostly makes sense.  However, flow through the Chicago canal to the Mississippi 
by way of the  Illinois doesn't ever cause much more than flushing a toilet in 
MPLS.  The Chicago was diverted to the Illinois to keep Chicago sewage out of 
Lake Michigan.  The canal just allows for traffic between the river and the 
lake given the river course change.Also, I believe someone mentioned the 
dredging earlier, but IIRC, flow rate would not be as related to river depth as 
to the drop rate of the river bottom and the height of water column of the 
upper lakes.  If only a section was dredged and not the entire river, I would 
think the flow rate would not be significantly different due to dredging.I'm 
not overly familiar with that section of the country, but it does sound more 
like a weather problem than a man-made one.RonWild CheriC&C 30STL

--- On Wed, 10/3/12, Alex Giannelia  wrote:

From: Alex Giannelia 
Subject: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Date: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 5:31 PM

Stu is right to point this out.  We need to listen and to do something.  Here 
is my background based on what I do for a living and who I do it for.

This issue is always going to be a difficult one.  I am in the aerial mapping 
business and we have seen projects come out either because the lake levels were 
too high and caused property damaging erosion (1988-1990 comes to mind) that 
needed to be mapped for?  The IJC. So they are looking at this.


There are four drain plugs in the system that I know of,
1  Jackfish River to divert to hydro power in the James Bay
1) Chicago Canal to flood the Mississippi for shipping
2) Oswego to flood the Hudson
3) St. Lawrence which also drives shipping and hydroelectric

These are supposed to balanced, and if the scientists were running the show, 
they probably would be, but politicians are, so the squeaky hinge gets the 
flow, so the St. Clair River deal just put a kibosh on everything because it 
accelerates the flown to Erie which due to its shallow nature is a great 
evaporator.

No one figured on losing ice the way we have on all the lakes.  I photographed 
Lake Ontario in Feb 1978, the last time it had more than 50% cover.

Counting on this evaporation to create more snow is a nice wish, but as one guy 
on this list pointed out, Superior is upwind of everything, so don't count on 
it.

WE ARE THE REASON.  AND WHEN WE EITHER CHANGE OUR WAYS, OR GET POLITICIANS TO 
CHANGE THEM FOR US, THE SITUATION WILL CHANGE FOR THE BETTER, BUT IF WE DO 
NOTHING, THE WATER WILL EVAPORATE AND DUMP DOWNWIND INTO THE OCEAN EITHER AS 
SNOW OR RAIN.

My .02 worth.


ALEX GIANNELIA

CC 35-II (1974) WILL BE RENAMED
ON THE HARD SINCE NOV. 2006 and if the lake levels drop more, may be there 
forever  ;>}
Toronto Ontario








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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Ronald B. Frerker]

Levels on the Mississippi should have no effect.  The river watershed is not 
connected to the Great Lakes.  Most of the Great Lakes have little watershed 
area; well at least in the US.  For eg., the Superior watershed only goes back 
50mi from the western shore.  So a light winter can have a dramatic effect if 
the flow out of the lake system is normal.And as I believe Fred pointed out, 
evaporation is a major factor, especially when the watershed area is small 
relative to the surface water area.Usually there is little maneuvering room for 
changing dam releases on the upper Miss.  The changes are usually made on the 
big dams of the Missouri since 40% of the lower Miss' summer flow is from the 
Missouri.RonWild CheriC&C 30STL

--- On Wed, 10/3/12, Chuck S  wrote:

From: Chuck S 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 5:13 PM

#yiv2129176082 p {margin:0;}Great Lakes water level:
Just guessing, but isn't the fall in lake levels due to lower rainfall 
amounts?  
Also, didn't they raise the level of the Mississippi (by lowering dam levels 
upstream to feed it) because they need to keep channels filled for commercial 
shipping?

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ
From: "dwight veinot" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 6:07:20 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels





















So what could the government do???  Has
someone interfered with nature or what???

 



Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS











From: CnC-List
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On
Behalf Of Stu

Sent: October 3, 2012 1:14 PM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com

Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water
  Levels



 



The main intention of my first email, was to pass along information on
what is happening to the water levels in the Great Lakes
and to let people know that the governments are doing nothing to improve the
situation.  Allowing the level in 1 lake to drop another 5 feet is going
to destroy fishing, boating and most recreational activities on the lake.





 





Don't shoot the messenger -- point the gun at the politicians.





 





Stu





 









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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5307 - Release Date: 10/03/12







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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Stevan Plavsa]

Some folks at our club are having to haul elsewhere this year because they
are not able to approach the dock to get into the slings. I'm one of those
people but I was planning on hauling elsewhere anyway. Water level is a
serious issue at a lot of clubs on Lake Ontario.

Steve
C&C 32
Toronto (TS&CC)

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Robert Mazza wrote:

> OK Stu, here's a dumb question:
>
> If the water is leaving the Upper Great Lakes faster than normal, why
> isn't the level of the Lower Great Lakes rising with all that influx of
> water? We keep our boat in Hamilton, Ontario, and the water level at the
> fixed docks at the Royal Hamilton Yacht Club is so low now that I have to
> sit on my butt on the dock with my legs dangling in space before a gingerly
> lower myself on to the deck of Trillium now several feet below dock level.
> I can't see how putting baffles in the St. Clair River is going to improve
> the water level on Lake Ontario. There seems to be something more at work
> here than water flow through the St. Clair River. It probably has to do
> more with lack of snow fall and snow build up in the winter with resulting
> reduced run off in the spring, as well as changes in precipitation
> generally. Global warming (or Climate Change)  perhaps? I don't have an
> answer, but this does seem to be a problem facing the whole Great Lakes,
> not just the Upper Lakes.
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Stu  wrote:
>
>> **
>> This is NOT C&C related, but if you can't sail your boat, it will be:
>>
>>  Dear friends of Georgian Bay and Lake Huron,
>>
>>  A recent report by the International Joint Commission (IJC)
>> recently announced a recommendation that the water level of Lake
>> Huron/Georgian Bay be allowed to decline by another 1½ metres without
>> government intervention (for our American friends, that's 5 feet!).
>> Why do we care? Because the Great Lakes were formed by glacial melt in
>> the last Ice Age, and man has intervened. We have created global warming
>> and we dredged the St. Clair River to permit super tanker ships to reach
>> the upper Great Lakes. In fact, the channel was over-dredged and exposed a
>> soft layer of terrain which washed away further increasing the flow of
>> water leaving the upper Great Lakes. The flow of water leaving the lakes
>> has been dramatically accelerated! If allowed to continue, the lake levels
>> will continue to drop.
>> *There is a solution*: stone baffles could be installed at the bottom of
>> the St. Clair to return the depth of the St Clair River to that which was
>> intended for freighter traffic. The dollars required to do his are quite
>> manageable and are much less than the cost of allowing the situation to
>> continue.
>> Please take a short moment to sign a new petition which implores the IJC
>> to do something about the problem. (See link below). If you care about the
>> ecological and economic devastation that will result from further drops in
>> the water level, send an e-mail to the IJC, ( link below), and please pass
>> on the links *to everyone you know.*
>> Thanks for caring about the Bay
>>
>> *Read more about it and sign it here*:
>>
>> http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Save_the_upper_Great_Lakes_water_levels_especially_Lake_Huron_and_Georgian_Bay/?launch
>>
>> To contact the IJC:
>>e-mail - commiss...@ottawa.ijc.org
>>   Letter - 234 Laurier Ave W 22nd Floor, Ottawa ON, K1P 6K6
>>   Campaigns like this always start small, but they grow when people like
>> us get involved -- please take a second right now to help out by signing
>> and passing it on.
>>
>>
>> To edit your petition at any time, click here:
>>
>> http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Save_the_upper_Great_Lakes_water_levels_especially_Lake_Huron_and_Georgian_Bay/edit/
>>
>> Let's make change,
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Colin Kilgour]

Paul,

How would you go under the dock?  Doesn't your dock float anymore?

My dock (C-3) does.

Cheers
Colin


On 10/3/12, Paul Fountain  wrote:
> Rich,
>
> It's a serious issue on the Great Lakes right now - many clubs and marinas
> on Lake Ontario are not accessible to boats drawing over 5 1/2 feet some are
> pulling deeper drafts already. I've had to extend my dock skirt down 2+ feet
> so I don't go under the dock.
>
> On the upper lakes I have friends with cottages on islands that are having
> to extend docks and take other actions to get to the islands - no fun!
>
> Wish we had tides even wind tides right now!
>
> Paul. :)
>
>
> On 2012-10-03, at 3:54 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:
>
>> I don't understand all the flap over water levels. Ours goes up and down
>> over 6' every few hours. Up to 40' on the Bay of Fundy. No sweat.
>>
>> Rich Knowles
>> Indigo - C&C LF38
>> Halifax - Nova Scotia
>>
>>
>> On 2012-10-03, at 16:14, Frederick G Street  wrote:
>>
>>> We don't see much lake effect snow on Superior, as we're upwind of
>>> everything...
>>>
>>> -- Fred
>>>
>>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 2:12 PM, "Neil Andersen"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have heard that there is a call for a greater than usual volume of
>>>> Lake effect snowfall this year due to the higher than usual Lake
>>>> temperature…
>>>>
>>>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
>>>> Frederick G Street
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:50 AM
>>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
>>>>
>>>> Speaking just for Lake Superior, we're in a drought situation here right
>>>> now, so inflow is much reduced; but the biggest culprit seems to be the
>>>> warmer than usual winters, which lead to significantly reduced ice
>>>> cover, which in turn leads to greatly increased evaporation.
>>>>
>>>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>>>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:38 AM, Robert Mazza wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OK Stu, here's a dumb question:
>>>>
>>>> If the water is leaving the Upper Great Lakes faster than normal, why
>>>> isn't the level of the Lower Great Lakes rising with all that influx of
>>>> water? We keep our boat in Hamilton, Ontario, and the water level at the
>>>> fixed docks at the Royal Hamilton Yacht Club is so low now that I have
>>>> to sit on my butt on the dock with my legs dangling in space before a
>>>> gingerly lower myself on to the deck of Trillium now several feet below
>>>> dock level. I can't see how putting baffles in the St. Clair River is
>>>> going to improve the water level on Lake Ontario. There seems to be
>>>> something more at work here than water flow through the St. Clair River.
>>>> It probably has to do more with lack of snow fall and snow build up in
>>>> the winter with resulting reduced run off in the spring, as well as
>>>> changes in precipitation generally. Global warming (or Climate Change)
>>>> perhaps? I don't have an answer, but this does seem to be a problem
>>>> facing the whole Great Lakes, not just the Upper Lakes.
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>> ___
>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> ___
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>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Paul Fountain]

Sadly true .. And we'll need wheels on our keels! 

This is one time I am very happy to have centerboard on Lake Ontario!

Paul. :)


On 2012-10-03, at 5:53 PM, Frederick G Street  wrote:

> If they wait long enough, they'll be able to drive to their cottages...
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
> 
> 
> On Oct 3, 2012, at 3:28 PM, Paul Fountain wrote:
> 
>> On the upper lakes I have friends with cottages on islands that are having 
>> to extend docks and take other actions to get to the islands - no fun!
> 
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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Chuck S]

Great Lakes water level: 
Just guessing, but isn't the fall in lake levels due to lower rainfall amounts? 
Also, didn't they raise the level of the Mississippi (by lowering dam levels 
upstream to feed it) because they need to keep channels filled for commercial 
shipping? 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: "dwight veinot"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 6:07:20 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels 




So what could the government do??? Has someone interfered with nature or 
what??? 




Dwight Veinot 

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna 

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS 




From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stu 
Sent: October 3, 2012 1:14 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels 




The main intention of my first email, was to pass along information on what is 
happening to the water levels in the Great Lakes and to let people know that 
the governments are doing nothing to improve the situation. Allowing the level 
in 1 lake to drop another 5 feet is going to destroy fishing, boating and most 
recreational activities on the lake. 





Don't shoot the messenger -- point the gun at the politicians. 





Stu 






No virus found in this message. 
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5307 - Release Date: 10/03/12 
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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[dwight veinot]

So what could the government do???  Has someone interfered with nature or
what???

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stu
Sent: October 3, 2012 1:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

 

The main intention of my first email, was to pass along information on what
is happening to the water levels in the Great Lakes and to let people know
that the governments are doing nothing to improve the situation.  Allowing
the level in 1 lake to drop another 5 feet is going to destroy fishing,
boating and most recreational activities on the lake.

 

Don't shoot the messenger -- point the gun at the politicians.

 

Stu

 

  _  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5307 - Release Date: 10/03/12

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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Frederick G Street]

If they wait long enough, they'll be able to drive to their cottages...

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(


On Oct 3, 2012, at 3:28 PM, Paul Fountain wrote:

> On the upper lakes I have friends with cottages on islands that are having to 
> extend docks and take other actions to get to the islands - no fun!

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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[OldSteveH]

What about putting in a lock at Pt Huron/Sarnia.

But some of the IJC material states that they also have high water levels in
Lake Michigan?

Even though the IJC tries to explain away the impact of St Clair river
dredging, I suspect they never anticipated climate change effects all those
years ago, in addition to dredging effects.

If so then they need to do something about it.
Just looking around the IJC website they seem like a dusty, slow moving
organization. But their work does appear to be science driven.

Cheers,

Steve Hood
S/V Diamond Girl
C&C 34
Lions Head ON








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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Ed Dooley]

Ours doesn¹t go up and down quite that much here on Lake Champlain, the 6th
Great Lake,   :-)   but we are near record low levels,
and at record lows for this time of year. We¹re also hoping for some of that
lake effect snow for our ski areas.
Ed


On 10/3/12 4:28 PM, "cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com"
 wrote:

> I don't understand all the flap over water levels. Ours goes up and down over
> 6' every few hours. Up to 40' on the Bay of Fundy. No sweat.
> 
> Rich Knowles
> Indigo - C&C LF38
> Halifax - Nova Scotia
> 
> 
> On 2012-10-03, at 16:14, Frederick G Street  wrote:
> 
>> We don't see much lake effect snow on Superior, as we're upwind of
>> everything...
>> 
>> -- Fred
>> 
>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 2:12 PM, "Neil Andersen" 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I have heard that there is a call for a greater than usual volume of Lake
>>> effect snowfall this year due to the higher than usual Lake temperatureŠ
>>>  

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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Rich Knowles]

I understand. I used to live input real and sail on Lake St. Louis. Had the 
same problems. No fun.

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2012-10-03, at 17:28, Paul Fountain  wrote:

Rich,

It's a serious issue on the Great Lakes right now - many clubs and marinas on 
Lake Ontario are not accessible to boats drawing over 5 1/2 feet some are 
pulling deeper drafts already. I've had to extend my dock skirt down 2+ feet so 
I don't go under the dock. 

On the upper lakes I have friends with cottages on islands that are having to 
extend docks and take other actions to get to the islands - no fun!

Wish we had tides even wind tides right now!

Paul. :)


On 2012-10-03, at 3:54 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:

> I don't understand all the flap over water levels. Ours goes up and down over 
> 6' every few hours. Up to 40' on the Bay of Fundy. No sweat. 
> 
> Rich Knowles
> Indigo - C&C LF38
> Halifax - Nova Scotia
> 
> 
> On 2012-10-03, at 16:14, Frederick G Street  wrote:
> 
>> We don't see much lake effect snow on Superior, as we're upwind of 
>> everything...
>> 
>> -- Fred
>> 
>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 2:12 PM, "Neil Andersen"  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I have heard that there is a call for a greater than usual volume of Lake 
>>> effect snowfall this year due to the higher than usual Lake temperature…
>>>  
>>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
>>> Frederick G Street
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:50 AM
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
>>>  
>>> Speaking just for Lake Superior, we're in a drought situation here right 
>>> now, so inflow is much reduced; but the biggest culprit seems to be the 
>>> warmer than usual winters, which lead to significantly reduced ice cover, 
>>> which in turn leads to greatly increased evaporation.
>>> 
>>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>>>  
>>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:38 AM, Robert Mazza wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> OK Stu, here's a dumb question:
>>>  
>>> If the water is leaving the Upper Great Lakes faster than normal, why isn't 
>>> the level of the Lower Great Lakes rising with all that influx of water? We 
>>> keep our boat in Hamilton, Ontario, and the water level at the fixed docks 
>>> at the Royal Hamilton Yacht Club is so low now that I have to sit on my 
>>> butt on the dock with my legs dangling in space before a gingerly lower 
>>> myself on to the deck of Trillium now several feet below dock level. I 
>>> can't see how putting baffles in the St. Clair River is going to improve 
>>> the water level on Lake Ontario. There seems to be something more at work 
>>> here than water flow through the St. Clair River. It probably has to do 
>>> more with lack of snow fall and snow build up in the winter with resulting 
>>> reduced run off in the spring, as well as changes in precipitation 
>>> generally. Global warming (or Climate Change)  perhaps? I don't have an 
>>> answer, but this does seem to be a problem facing the whole Great Lakes, 
>>> not just the Upper Lakes.
>>>  
>>> ___
>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Fred Hazzard]

Try racing on the Columbia River with 8’ 6” of draft.  Two weeks ago I ran 
aground 7 times over the weekend.  Fortunately it is mostly sand.  Although I 
did find one rock.  To complicate things, the river is constantly changing 
while the charts are not.

 

Fred Hazzard

S/V Fury

C&C 44

Portland, Or

On the mighty Columbia

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 12:54 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

 

I don't understand all the flap over water levels. Ours goes up and down over 
6' every few hours. Up to 40' on the Bay of Fundy. No sweat. 

Rich Knowles

Indigo - C&C LF38

Halifax - Nova Scotia

 


On 2012-10-03, at 16:14, Frederick G Street  wrote:

We don't see much lake effect snow on Superior, as we're upwind of everything...

 

-- Fred

On Oct 3, 2012, at 2:12 PM, "Neil Andersen"  
wrote:

I have heard that there is a call for a greater than usual volume of Lake 
effect snowfall this year due to the higher than usual Lake temperature…

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick G 
Street
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:50 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

 

Speaking just for Lake Superior, we're in a drought situation here right now, 
so inflow is much reduced; but the biggest culprit seems to be the warmer than 
usual winters, which lead to significantly reduced ice cover, which in turn 
leads to greatly increased evaporation.


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

 

On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:38 AM, Robert Mazza wrote:






OK Stu, here's a dumb question:

 

If the water is leaving the Upper Great Lakes faster than normal, why isn't the 
level of the Lower Great Lakes rising with all that influx of water? We keep 
our boat in Hamilton, Ontario, and the water level at the fixed docks at the 
Royal Hamilton Yacht Club is so low now that I have to sit on my butt on the 
dock with my legs dangling in space before a gingerly lower myself on to the 
deck of Trillium now several feet below dock level. I can't see how putting 
baffles in the St. Clair River is going to improve the water level on Lake 
Ontario. There seems to be something more at work here than water flow through 
the St. Clair River. It probably has to do more with lack of snow fall and snow 
build up in the winter with resulting reduced run off in the spring, as well as 
changes in precipitation generally. Global warming (or Climate Change)  
perhaps? I don't have an answer, but this does seem to be a problem facing the 
whole Great Lakes, not just the Upper Lakes. 

 

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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Paul Fountain]

Rich,

It's a serious issue on the Great Lakes right now - many clubs and marinas on 
Lake Ontario are not accessible to boats drawing over 5 1/2 feet some are 
pulling deeper drafts already. I've had to extend my dock skirt down 2+ feet so 
I don't go under the dock. 

On the upper lakes I have friends with cottages on islands that are having to 
extend docks and take other actions to get to the islands - no fun!

Wish we had tides even wind tides right now!

Paul. :)


On 2012-10-03, at 3:54 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:

> I don't understand all the flap over water levels. Ours goes up and down over 
> 6' every few hours. Up to 40' on the Bay of Fundy. No sweat. 
> 
> Rich Knowles
> Indigo - C&C LF38
> Halifax - Nova Scotia
> 
> 
> On 2012-10-03, at 16:14, Frederick G Street  wrote:
> 
>> We don't see much lake effect snow on Superior, as we're upwind of 
>> everything...
>> 
>> -- Fred
>> 
>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 2:12 PM, "Neil Andersen"  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I have heard that there is a call for a greater than usual volume of Lake 
>>> effect snowfall this year due to the higher than usual Lake temperature…
>>>  
>>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
>>> Frederick G Street
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:50 AM
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
>>>  
>>> Speaking just for Lake Superior, we're in a drought situation here right 
>>> now, so inflow is much reduced; but the biggest culprit seems to be the 
>>> warmer than usual winters, which lead to significantly reduced ice cover, 
>>> which in turn leads to greatly increased evaporation.
>>> 
>>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>>>  
>>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:38 AM, Robert Mazza wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> OK Stu, here's a dumb question:
>>>  
>>> If the water is leaving the Upper Great Lakes faster than normal, why isn't 
>>> the level of the Lower Great Lakes rising with all that influx of water? We 
>>> keep our boat in Hamilton, Ontario, and the water level at the fixed docks 
>>> at the Royal Hamilton Yacht Club is so low now that I have to sit on my 
>>> butt on the dock with my legs dangling in space before a gingerly lower 
>>> myself on to the deck of Trillium now several feet below dock level. I 
>>> can't see how putting baffles in the St. Clair River is going to improve 
>>> the water level on Lake Ontario. There seems to be something more at work 
>>> here than water flow through the St. Clair River. It probably has to do 
>>> more with lack of snow fall and snow build up in the winter with resulting 
>>> reduced run off in the spring, as well as changes in precipitation 
>>> generally. Global warming (or Climate Change)  perhaps? I don't have an 
>>> answer, but this does seem to be a problem facing the whole Great Lakes, 
>>> not just the Upper Lakes.
>>>  
>>> ___
>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> ___
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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Joel Aronson]

Deep water is a luxury for some of us.  On the Chesapeake the 18 inch tide
makes a difference in lots of places.

Joel

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:

> I don't understand all the flap over water levels. Ours goes up and down
> over 6' every few hours. Up to 40' on the Bay of Fundy. No sweat.
>
> Rich Knowles
> Indigo - C&C LF38
> Halifax - Nova Scotia
>
>
> On 2012-10-03, at 16:14, Frederick G Street  wrote:
>
> We don't see much lake effect snow on Superior, as we're upwind of
> everything...
>
> -- Fred
>
> On Oct 3, 2012, at 2:12 PM, "Neil Andersen" 
> wrote:
>
> I have heard that there is a call for a greater than usual volume of Lake
> effect snowfall this year due to the higher than usual Lake temperature…**
> **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* CnC-List 
> [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
> *On Behalf Of *Frederick G Street
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:50 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
>
> ** **
>
> Speaking just for Lake Superior, we're in a drought situation here right
> now, so inflow is much reduced; but the biggest culprit seems to be the
> warmer than usual winters, which lead to significantly reduced ice cover,
> which in turn leads to greatly increased evaporation.
>
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V *Oceanis* (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(*
> ***
>
> ** **
>
> On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:38 AM, Robert Mazza wrote:
>
>
>
> 
>
> OK Stu, here's a dumb question:
>
>  
>
> If the water is leaving the Upper Great Lakes faster than normal, why
> isn't the level of the Lower Great Lakes rising with all that influx of
> water? We keep our boat in Hamilton, Ontario, and the water level at the
> fixed docks at the Royal Hamilton Yacht Club is so low now that I have to
> sit on my butt on the dock with my legs dangling in space before a gingerly
> lower myself on to the deck of Trillium now several feet below dock level.
> I can't see how putting baffles in the St. Clair River is going to improve
> the water level on Lake Ontario. There seems to be something more at work
> here than water flow through the St. Clair River. It probably has to do
> more with lack of snow fall and snow build up in the winter with resulting
> reduced run off in the spring, as well as changes in precipitation
> generally. Global warming (or Climate Change)  perhaps? I don't have an
> answer, but this does seem to be a problem facing the whole Great Lakes,
> not just the Upper Lakes. 
>
> ** **
>
> ___
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> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
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> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
> ___
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>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Rich Knowles]

I don't understand all the flap over water levels. Ours goes up and down over 
6' every few hours. Up to 40' on the Bay of Fundy. No sweat. 

Rich Knowles
Indigo - C&C LF38
Halifax - Nova Scotia


On 2012-10-03, at 16:14, Frederick G Street  wrote:

> We don't see much lake effect snow on Superior, as we're upwind of 
> everything...
> 
> -- Fred
> 
> On Oct 3, 2012, at 2:12 PM, "Neil Andersen"  
> wrote:
> 
>> I have heard that there is a call for a greater than usual volume of Lake 
>> effect snowfall this year due to the higher than usual Lake temperature…
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick 
>> G Street
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:50 AM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
>>  
>> Speaking just for Lake Superior, we're in a drought situation here right 
>> now, so inflow is much reduced; but the biggest culprit seems to be the 
>> warmer than usual winters, which lead to significantly reduced ice cover, 
>> which in turn leads to greatly increased evaporation.
>> 
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>>  
>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:38 AM, Robert Mazza wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> OK Stu, here's a dumb question:
>>  
>> If the water is leaving the Upper Great Lakes faster than normal, why isn't 
>> the level of the Lower Great Lakes rising with all that influx of water? We 
>> keep our boat in Hamilton, Ontario, and the water level at the fixed docks 
>> at the Royal Hamilton Yacht Club is so low now that I have to sit on my butt 
>> on the dock with my legs dangling in space before a gingerly lower myself on 
>> to the deck of Trillium now several feet below dock level. I can't see how 
>> putting baffles in the St. Clair River is going to improve the water level 
>> on Lake Ontario. There seems to be something more at work here than water 
>> flow through the St. Clair River. It probably has to do more with lack of 
>> snow fall and snow build up in the winter with resulting reduced run off in 
>> the spring, as well as changes in precipitation generally. Global warming 
>> (or Climate Change)  perhaps? I don't have an answer, but this does seem to 
>> be a problem facing the whole Great Lakes, not just the Upper Lakes.
>>  
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Frederick G Street]

We don't see much lake effect snow on Superior, as we're upwind of everything...

-- Fred

On Oct 3, 2012, at 2:12 PM, "Neil Andersen"  
wrote:

> I have heard that there is a call for a greater than usual volume of Lake 
> effect snowfall this year due to the higher than usual Lake temperature…
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick 
> G Street
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:50 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels
>  
> Speaking just for Lake Superior, we're in a drought situation here right now, 
> so inflow is much reduced; but the biggest culprit seems to be the warmer 
> than usual winters, which lead to significantly reduced ice cover, which in 
> turn leads to greatly increased evaporation.
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>  
> On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:38 AM, Robert Mazza wrote:
> 
> 
> OK Stu, here's a dumb question:
>  
> If the water is leaving the Upper Great Lakes faster than normal, why isn't 
> the level of the Lower Great Lakes rising with all that influx of water? We 
> keep our boat in Hamilton, Ontario, and the water level at the fixed docks at 
> the Royal Hamilton Yacht Club is so low now that I have to sit on my butt on 
> the dock with my legs dangling in space before a gingerly lower myself on to 
> the deck of Trillium now several feet below dock level. I can't see how 
> putting baffles in the St. Clair River is going to improve the water level on 
> Lake Ontario. There seems to be something more at work here than water flow 
> through the St. Clair River. It probably has to do more with lack of snow 
> fall and snow build up in the winter with resulting reduced run off in the 
> spring, as well as changes in precipitation generally. Global warming (or 
> Climate Change)  perhaps? I don't have an answer, but this does seem to be a 
> problem facing the whole Great Lakes, not just the Upper Lakes.
>  
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Neil Andersen]

I have heard that there is a call for a greater than usual volume of Lake
effect snowfall this year due to the higher than usual Lake temperature.

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick
G Street
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:50 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

 

Speaking just for Lake Superior, we're in a drought situation here right
now, so inflow is much reduced; but the biggest culprit seems to be the
warmer than usual winters, which lead to significantly reduced ice cover,
which in turn leads to greatly increased evaporation.


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

 

On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:38 AM, Robert Mazza wrote:





OK Stu, here's a dumb question:

 

If the water is leaving the Upper Great Lakes faster than normal, why isn't
the level of the Lower Great Lakes rising with all that influx of water? We
keep our boat in Hamilton, Ontario, and the water level at the fixed docks
at the Royal Hamilton Yacht Club is so low now that I have to sit on my butt
on the dock with my legs dangling in space before a gingerly lower myself on
to the deck of Trillium now several feet below dock level. I can't see how
putting baffles in the St. Clair River is going to improve the water level
on Lake Ontario. There seems to be something more at work here than water
flow through the St. Clair River. It probably has to do more with lack of
snow fall and snow build up in the winter with resulting reduced run off in
the spring, as well as changes in precipitation generally. Global warming
(or Climate Change)  perhaps? I don't have an answer, but this does seem to
be a problem facing the whole Great Lakes, not just the Upper Lakes. 

 

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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Bill Coleman]

<< I can't see how putting baffles in the St. Clair River is going to
improve the water level on Lake Ontario.>>

It’s not! Stu wants water for his boat, just like everyone else!  The Corp
did screw up, they pulled the little Dutch boy up out of the bottom of the
St Clair river, and now, coupled with low rain/snow, and like Fred sez,
higher evaporation, we are all hurting. At a conference I learned Lake Erie
gets 90% of its makeup water from Huron. (Not Rain)  Pretty much all of that
goes over the falls to you. When you look at a chart showing evaporation
rates, as you go from Sept to Dec, it climbs like the Himalayas – and when
we have no ice cover, it stays that way till spring.  Unless it starts
raining and snowing, we may be going back to the early 30’s levels. 

Interestingly enough, a lot of that evaporated water goes down to Dennis! 5
miles south of the South Shore is the Mississippi watershed - 

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 animated_favicon1

Lake Erie

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Mazza
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

 

OK Stu, here's a dumb question:

 

If the water is leaving the Upper Great Lakes faster than normal, why isn't
the level of the Lower Great Lakes rising with all that influx of water? We
keep our boat in Hamilton, Ontario, and the water level at the fixed docks
at the Royal Hamilton Yacht Club is so low now that I have to sit on my butt
on the dock with my legs dangling in space before a gingerly lower myself on
to the deck of Trillium now several feet below dock level. I can't see how
putting baffles in the St. Clair River is going to improve the water level
on Lake Ontario. There seems to be something more at work here than water
flow through the St. Clair River. It probably has to do more with lack of
snow fall and snow build up in the winter with resulting reduced run off in
the spring, as well as changes in precipitation generally. Global warming
(or Climate Change)  perhaps? I don't have an answer, but this does seem to
be a problem facing the whole Great Lakes, not just the Upper Lakes. 

 

Rob



 

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Stu  wrote:

This is NOT C&C related, but if you can't sail your boat, it will be:

 

Dear friends of Georgian Bay and Lake Huron,

A recent report by the International Joint Commission (IJC) recently
announced a recommendation that the water level of Lake Huron/Georgian Bay
be allowed to decline by another 1½ metres without government intervention
(for our American friends, that's 5 feet!).

Why do we care? Because the Great Lakes were formed by glacial melt in the
last Ice Age, and man has intervened. We have created global warming and we
dredged the St. Clair River to permit super tanker ships to reach the upper
Great Lakes. In fact, the channel was over-dredged and exposed a soft layer
of terrain which washed away further increasing the flow of water leaving
the upper Great Lakes. The flow of water leaving the lakes has been
dramatically accelerated! If allowed to continue, the lake levels will
continue to drop.

There is a solution: stone baffles could be installed at the bottom of the
St. Clair to return the depth of the St Clair River to that which was
intended for freighter traffic. The dollars required to do his are quite
manageable and are much less than the cost of allowing the situation to
continue.

Please take a short moment to sign a new petition which implores the IJC to
do something about the problem. (See link below). If you care about the
ecological and economic devastation that will result from further drops in
the water level, send an e-mail to the IJC, ( link below), and please pass
on the links to everyone you know.

Thanks for caring about the Bay

Read more about it and sign it here: 
http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Save_the_upper_Great_Lakes_water_levels_esp
ecially_Lake_Huron_and_Georgian_Bay/?launch

To contact the IJC:

e-mail - commiss...@ottawa.ijc.org

Letter - 234 Laurier Ave W 22nd Floor, Ottawa ON, K1P 6K6

Campaigns like this always start small, but they grow when people like us
get involved -- please take a second right now to help out by signing and
passing it on.


To edit your petition at any time, click here:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Save_the_upper_Great_Lakes_water_levels_esp
ecially_Lake_Huron_and_Georgian_Bay/edit/

Let's make change, 


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

 

<>___
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CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Stu]

The main intention of my first email, was to pass along information on what is 
happening to the water levels in the Great Lakes and to let people know that 
the governments are doing nothing to improve the situation.  Allowing the level 
in 1 lake to drop another 5 feet is going to destroy fishing, boating and most 
recreational activities on the lake.

Don't shoot the messenger -- point the gun at the politicians.

Stu
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Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Della Barba, Joe]

Hey we just happen to have plenty of water here in Maryland and I just noticed 
a hose disappearing over the horizon to the northwest.
Muhahahaha


Joe Della Barba

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick G 
Street
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:50 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

Speaking just for Lake Superior, we're in a drought situation here right now, 
so inflow is much reduced; but the biggest culprit seems to be the warmer than 
usual winters, which lead to significantly reduced ice cover, which in turn 
leads to greatly increased evaporation.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:38 AM, Robert Mazza wrote:


OK Stu, here's a dumb question:

If the water is leaving the Upper Great Lakes faster than normal, why isn't the 
level of the Lower Great Lakes rising with all that influx of water? We keep 
our boat in Hamilton, Ontario, and the water level at the fixed docks at the 
Royal Hamilton Yacht Club is so low now that I have to sit on my butt on the 
dock with my legs dangling in space before a gingerly lower myself on to the 
deck of Trillium now several feet below dock level. I can't see how putting 
baffles in the St. Clair River is going to improve the water level on Lake 
Ontario. There seems to be something more at work here than water flow through 
the St. Clair River. It probably has to do more with lack of snow fall and snow 
build up in the winter with resulting reduced run off in the spring, as well as 
changes in precipitation generally. Global warming (or Climate Change)  
perhaps? I don't have an answer, but this does seem to be a problem facing the 
whole Great Lakes, not just the Upper Lakes.

___
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http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Frederick G Street]

Speaking just for Lake Superior, we're in a drought situation here right now, 
so inflow is much reduced; but the biggest culprit seems to be the warmer than 
usual winters, which lead to significantly reduced ice cover, which in turn 
leads to greatly increased evaporation.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:38 AM, Robert Mazza wrote:

> OK Stu, here's a dumb question:
>  
> If the water is leaving the Upper Great Lakes faster than normal, why isn't 
> the level of the Lower Great Lakes rising with all that influx of water? We 
> keep our boat in Hamilton, Ontario, and the water level at the fixed docks at 
> the Royal Hamilton Yacht Club is so low now that I have to sit on my butt on 
> the dock with my legs dangling in space before a gingerly lower myself on to 
> the deck of Trillium now several feet below dock level. I can't see how 
> putting baffles in the St. Clair River is going to improve the water level on 
> Lake Ontario. There seems to be something more at work here than water flow 
> through the St. Clair River. It probably has to do more with lack of snow 
> fall and snow build up in the winter with resulting reduced run off in the 
> spring, as well as changes in precipitation generally. Global warming (or 
> Climate Change)  perhaps? I don't have an answer, but this does seem to be a 
> problem facing the whole Great Lakes, not just the Upper Lakes.

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Robert Mazza]

OK Stu, here's a dumb question:

If the water is leaving the Upper Great Lakes faster than normal, why isn't
the level of the Lower Great Lakes rising with all that influx of water? We
keep our boat in Hamilton, Ontario, and the water level at the fixed docks
at the Royal Hamilton Yacht Club is so low now that I have to sit on my
butt on the dock with my legs dangling in space before a gingerly lower
myself on to the deck of Trillium now several feet below dock level. I
can't see how putting baffles in the St. Clair River is going to improve
the water level on Lake Ontario. There seems to be something more at work
here than water flow through the St. Clair River. It probably has to do
more with lack of snow fall and snow build up in the winter with resulting
reduced run off in the spring, as well as changes in precipitation
generally. Global warming (or Climate Change)  perhaps? I don't have an
answer, but this does seem to be a problem facing the whole Great Lakes,
not just the Upper Lakes.

Rob



On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Stu  wrote:

> **
> This is NOT C&C related, but if you can't sail your boat, it will be:
>
>  Dear friends of Georgian Bay and Lake Huron,
>
>  A recent report by the International Joint Commission (IJC)
> recently announced a recommendation that the water level of Lake
> Huron/Georgian Bay be allowed to decline by another 1½ metres without
> government intervention (for our American friends, that's 5 feet!).
> Why do we care? Because the Great Lakes were formed by glacial melt in the
> last Ice Age, and man has intervened. We have created global warming and we
> dredged the St. Clair River to permit super tanker ships to reach the upper
> Great Lakes. In fact, the channel was over-dredged and exposed a soft layer
> of terrain which washed away further increasing the flow of water leaving
> the upper Great Lakes. The flow of water leaving the lakes has been
> dramatically accelerated! If allowed to continue, the lake levels will
> continue to drop.
> *There is a solution*: stone baffles could be installed at the bottom of
> the St. Clair to return the depth of the St Clair River to that which was
> intended for freighter traffic. The dollars required to do his are quite
> manageable and are much less than the cost of allowing the situation to
> continue.
> Please take a short moment to sign a new petition which implores the IJC
> to do something about the problem. (See link below). If you care about the
> ecological and economic devastation that will result from further drops in
> the water level, send an e-mail to the IJC, ( link below), and please pass
> on the links *to everyone you know.*
> Thanks for caring about the Bay
>
> *Read more about it and sign it here*:
>
> http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Save_the_upper_Great_Lakes_water_levels_especially_Lake_Huron_and_Georgian_Bay/?launch
>
> To contact the IJC:
>e-mail - commiss...@ottawa.ijc.org
>   Letter - 234 Laurier Ave W 22nd Floor, Ottawa ON, K1P 6K6
>   Campaigns like this always start small, but they grow when people like
> us get involved -- please take a second right now to help out by signing
> and passing it on.
>
>
> To edit your petition at any time, click here:
>
> http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Save_the_upper_Great_Lakes_water_levels_especially_Lake_Huron_and_Georgian_Bay/edit/
>
> Let's make change,
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[Bill Coleman]

Stu, if you really want to make some waves, get BoatUS in the fray.

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 animated_favicon1

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stu
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 4:44 PM
To: C&C Email List
Subject: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

 

This is NOT C&C related, but if you can't sail your boat, it will be:

 

Dear friends of Georgian Bay and Lake Huron,

A recent report by the International Joint Commission (IJC) recently
announced a recommendation that the water level of Lake Huron/Georgian Bay
be allowed to decline by another 1½ metres without government intervention
(for our American friends, that's 5 feet!).

Why do we care? Because the Great Lakes were formed by glacial melt in the
last Ice Age, and man has intervened. We have created global warming and we
dredged the St. Clair River to permit super tanker ships to reach the upper
Great Lakes. In fact, the channel was over-dredged and exposed a soft layer
of terrain which washed away further increasing the flow of water leaving
the upper Great Lakes. The flow of water leaving the lakes has been
dramatically accelerated! If allowed to continue, the lake levels will
continue to drop.

There is a solution: stone baffles could be installed at the bottom of the
St. Clair to return the depth of the St Clair River to that which was
intended for freighter traffic. The dollars required to do his are quite
manageable and are much less than the cost of allowing the situation to
continue.

Please take a short moment to sign a new petition which implores the IJC to
do something about the problem. (See link below). If you care about the
ecological and economic devastation that will result from further drops in
the water level, send an e-mail to the IJC, ( link below), and please pass
on the links to everyone you know.

Thanks for caring about the Bay

Read more about it and sign it here: 
http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Save_the_upper_Great_Lakes_water_levels_esp
ecially_Lake_Huron_and_Georgian_Bay/?launch

To contact the IJC:

e-mail - commiss...@ottawa.ijc.org

Letter - 234 Laurier Ave W 22nd Floor, Ottawa ON, K1P 6K6

Campaigns like this always start small, but they grow when people like us
get involved -- please take a second right now to help out by signing and
passing it on.


To edit your petition at any time, click here:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Save_the_upper_Great_Lakes_water_levels_esp
ecially_Lake_Huron_and_Georgian_Bay/edit/

Let's make change, 

<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[sthoma20]

Heard a securite on the VHF today about a dredger operating in the St, Clair 
River. They are still going at it! Nuts. Typical government attitude toward 
short term consequences for vested interests. The Chicago waste and barge canal 
is another example of baffling intransigence.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Cruising Western Lake Erie


Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 19:17:31 -0400
From: schil...@bloomingdalecom.net
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels


  

  
  
Stu,

  

  I can attest to the dropping water levels.  We pulled out early to
  make sure that we could get our boat up river for haul out. 
  Hopefully we will be able to go in next year.  Lake Michigan/Huron
  (considered on body of water)is within 2 inches of the all time
  low level for October and it is expected that we will lose 2
  inches in October.

  

  Neil Schiller

  1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7

  (C&C 35, Mark I)

  "Corsair"

  Tucked away in South Haven, MI

  


On 10/2/2012 4:44 PM, Stu wrote:



  
  
  
  This is NOT C&C related, but if you can't
  sail your boat, it will be:
   
  
Dear friends of Georgian Bay and
  Lake Huron,

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
A recent
  report by the
  International
  Joint
  Commission
  (IJC) recently
  announced a
  recommendation
  that the water
  level of Lake
  Huron/Georgian
  Bay be allowed
  to decline by
  another 1½
  metres without
  government
  intervention
  (for our
  American
  friends,
  that's 5
  feet!).
Why do
  we care?
  Because the
  Great Lakes
  were formed by
  glacial melt
  in the last
  Ice Age, and
  man has
  intervened. We
  have created
  global warming
  and we dredged
  the St. Clair
  River to
  permit super
  tanker ships
  to reach the
  upper Great
  Lakes. In
   

Re: Stus-List Great Lakes Water Levels

[schiller]

Stu,

I can attest to the dropping water levels.  We pulled out early to make 
sure that we could get our boat up river for haul out. Hopefully we will 
be able to go in next year.  Lake Michigan/Huron (considered on body of 
water)is within 2 inches of the all time low level for October and it is 
expected that we will lose 2 inches in October.


Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C&C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair"
Tucked away in South Haven, MI

On 10/2/2012 4:44 PM, Stu wrote:

This is NOT C&C related, but if you can't sail your boat, it will be:
Dear friends of Georgian Bay and Lake Huron,


A recent report by the International Joint Commission (IJC)
recently announced a recommendation that the water level of
Lake Huron/Georgian Bay be allowed to decline by another 1½
metres without government intervention (for our American
friends, that's 5 feet!).
Why do we care? Because the Great Lakes were formed by
glacial melt in the last Ice Age, and man has intervened. We
have created global warming and we dredged the St. Clair
River to permit super tanker ships to reach the upper Great
Lakes. In fact, the channel was over-dredged and exposed a
soft layer of terrain which washed away further increasing
the flow of water leaving the upper Great Lakes.The flow of
water leaving the lakes has been dramatically accelerated! If
allowed to continue, the lake levels will continue to drop.
_There is a solution_: stone baffles could be installed at
the bottom of the St. Clair to return the depth of the St
Clair River to that which was intended for freighter traffic.
The dollars required to do his are quite manageable and are
much less than the cost of allowing the situation to continue.
Please take a short moment to sign a new petition which
implores the IJC to do something about the problem. (See link
below). If you care about the ecological and economic
devastation that will result from further drops in the water
level, send an e-mail to the IJC, ( link below), and please
pass on the links *_to everyone you know_.*
Thanks for caring about the Bay

*Read more about it and sign it here*:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Save_the_upper_Great_Lakes_water_levels_especially_Lake_Huron_and_Georgian_Bay/?launch

To contact the IJC:
e-mail - commiss...@ottawa.ijc.org

Letter - 234 Laurier Ave W 22nd Floor, Ottawa ON, K1P 6K6
Campaigns like this always start small, but they grow when
people like us get involved -- please take a second right now
to help out by signing and passing it on.


To edit your petition at any time, click here:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Save_the_upper_Great_Lakes_water_levels_especially_Lake_Huron_and_Georgian_Bay/edit/

Let's make change,




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This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com