[CGUYS] news fyi: "Microsoft to offer free consumer security suite"

[Andy Gallant]

Just spotted this via Google News (one of several links):

from http://www.download.com/8301-2007_4-10101582-12.html

"Microsoft on Tuesday said it is changing its strategy for offering PC 
antivirus software, with plans to discontinue its subscription-based 
consumer security suite and instead offer individuals free software to 
protect their PCs.


"Code-named Morro, the new offering will be available in the second half 
of 2009 and will protect against viruses, spyware, rootkits, and 
Trojans, the company said in a statement 
."


(continues)


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Re: [CGUYS] ZoneAlarm Pro 24-Hour Giveaway

[Richard P.]

Thanks for the heads up.

Richard P.

On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Jeff Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Check Point Software Technologies is celebrating its 15th anniversary today
> by giving away free copies of its vaunted firewall software ZoneAlarm Pro
> 2009. The promotion runs for 24 hours, from 6 a.m. PST Tuesday, November 18
> to 6 a.m. Wednesday, November 19.
>
> http://download.zonealarm.com/bin/free/sum/index.html?c=W11
>
>
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[CGUYS] Any recommendations about PowerLine Ethernet?

[Chris Mollner]

I am considering using PowerLine Ethernet Adapters to connect my TV and 
Blu-ray player to my home network so they can access the Internet for 
updates.


The TV and Blu-Ray player are in the basement.  I have an Airport Base 
Station on the second floor connected to my cable modem.  It appears 
that I could use a Powerline 4-Port Ethernet Adapter in the basement and 
a Powerline Ethernet Adapter connected on the second floor to connect 
the devices to my home network.


My questions are:  does anyone have any experience with these devices 
and do they work?  Also, am I missing anything in my proposed setup?


Thanks for your help.

Chris Mollner


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Re: [CGUYS] Thanks to gamers, the desktop supercomputer arrives

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Are we performing some extra special game function for this computer?

I cannot see why anyone would want that.

Reminds me of the ones that used to be built at Cray Research in the 
early 90's.  They were all multiple processor computers, super 
cooled.  (parallel I think)


Stewart


At 08:42 PM 11/18/2008, you wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/5d924a

"Nvidia today unveiled a workstation it calls the Tesla Personal
Supercomputer at the Supercomputing 08 show here. The Tesla sports 960
cores, delivers almost 4 teraflops of performance and costs less than
$9,995. It achieves that speed and price by using four graphics processing
units (GPU), each of which has 240 cores."


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] avg

[Richard P.]

No baggage here either with 8.0. My only issue is it slows the compuer
down when scanning so I let it scan when I'm not using the computer.

FYI, 7.5 is no longer supported. This from AVG forum:
AVG 7.5 Free - Support ends 31/08/2008
Posted by: michaelhd - AVG Team (IP Logged)
Date: July 9, 2008 04:07PM

Support for AVG 7.5 Free Edition is planned to end on 31st August 2008.

No more virus updates are planned for after that date.

Note that no more 'program' updates are due! Only virus updates will
continue until the end date.

AVG 7.5 Paid version will be supported until 31/12/08.

Richard P.




>> i had 7.5 on the last computer. now all i can find is 8.0.  i have
>> heard that 8.0 comes with a lot of baggage.  can the baggage be
>> avoided.
>>
>>
>> have vista OS.
>
> I use 8.0 on Vista and have no trouble.  Not sure what the baggage is
> supposed to be, but no bellboy has shown up to get it.
>
>
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[CGUYS] ZoneAlarm Pro 24-Hour Giveaway

[Jeff Wright]

Check Point Software Technologies is celebrating its 15th anniversary today
by giving away free copies of its vaunted firewall software ZoneAlarm Pro
2009. The promotion runs for 24 hours, from 6 a.m. PST Tuesday, November 18
to 6 a.m. Wednesday, November 19.

http://download.zonealarm.com/bin/free/sum/index.html?c=W11


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[CGUYS] Thanks to gamers, the desktop supercomputer arrives

[Jeff Wright]

http://tinyurl.com/5d924a

"Nvidia today unveiled a workstation it calls the Tesla Personal
Supercomputer at the Supercomputing 08 show here. The Tesla sports 960
cores, delivers almost 4 teraflops of performance and costs less than
$9,995. It achieves that speed and price by using four graphics processing
units (GPU), each of which has 240 cores." 


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Re: [CGUYS] better

[Tom Piwowar]

>"...it is a bad idea to periodically clean out that folder as some tech
>sites suggest.  For one thing, XP will just re-create that data anyways;
>secondly, it trims the files anyways if there's ever more than 128 of them
>so that it doesn't needlessly consume space.  So not only is deleting the
>directory totally unnecessary, but you're also putting a temporary dent in
>your PC's performance."
>
>You can either take advice from an engineer on the Windows Performance team,
>Mark Russinovich, or from the Mac guy.  Your choice.

I would go with the Mac Guy because the Mac Guy has also read all the 
conflicting information on prefetch so he therefore systematically tested 
this one. A PC that was taking over 10 minutes to start up was turned 
into a peppy computer by simply clearing out this prefetch folder. 
Nothing else was done to this PC. QED.

Most people familiar with the operation of computers know that cache 
files can and do become corrupted. Corrupt caches do just the opposite of 
what they were intended to do.

As with all cache files, deleting them will cause a performance hit as 
they get recreated. After that one-time hit your now non-corrupt cache 
file will do its job correctly and actually speed up your PC.

Also the Mac Guy did not say to "periodically clean out that folder", but 
to clean it out in response to a specific performance problem.

Also consider that if Russinovich were really as smart as you say, he 
would be working for Apple. He isn't so he ain't.


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Re: [CGUYS] better

[Jeff Wright]

I don't pay too much attention to synthetic benchmarks, as they can be
fudged by tests that are biased to one variable or another or optimized for
a particular brand.  I much prefer to see real world testing at hardware
sites, but most any modern hard drive will give you decent performance.
What I want is a quiet drive.

I recently replaced my WD Raptor HD, a 10K RPM drive, with a Maxtor 7200 RPM
drive with a 16 MB cache because I couldn't stand the noise any longer
(Raptors are VERY LOUD).  I'm actually noticing better performance with the
slower drive and my Vista hardware scores back that impression up.  And, as
a bonus, I can hear myself think.

I recall reading when the Raptors came out of how the native queuing of the
drive was made for a server application and not for the desktop, but I
thought the drive platter velocity would make up for that.  Nope.

> -Original Message-
> I upgraded recently to a Maxtor DiamondMax20 which should perform
> better than the prior seagateST3120026A 7200 8mbCache but rated slower
(95)...


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[CGUYS] Favorite online workspace?

[db]

Google Docs and MS's entry can't display active URL links, images nor 
has any white space capability.


I've been looking at Thinkature: http://thinkature.com/

Anybody have another other recommendations...

db


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Re: [CGUYS] better

[Jeff Wright]

> >how does one "clear" the prefetch?
> 
> Drag the folder contents into the trash. It can do wonders.

Your advice is to empty the folder that Windows uses to boot and load apps
more quickly?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc302206.aspx

The legendary Mark Russinovich explains the prefetch:

" How does this scheme provide a performance benefit? The answer lies in the
fact that during typical system boot or application startup, the order of
faults is such that some pages are brought in from one part of a file, then
from another part of the same file, then pages are read from a different
file, then perhaps from a directory, and so on. This jumping around results
in moving the heads around on the disk. Microsoft has learned through
analysis that this slows boot and application startup times. By prefetching
data from a file or directory all at once before accessing another one, this
scattered seeking for data on the disk is greatly reduced or eliminated,
thus improving the overall time for system and application startup."

http://blogs.msdn.com/ryanmy/archive/2005/05/25/421882.aspx

"...it is a bad idea to periodically clean out that folder as some tech
sites suggest.  For one thing, XP will just re-create that data anyways;
secondly, it trims the files anyways if there's ever more than 128 of them
so that it doesn't needlessly consume space.  So not only is deleting the
directory totally unnecessary, but you're also putting a temporary dent in
your PC's performance."

You can either take advice from an engineer on the Windows Performance team,
Mark Russinovich, or from the Mac guy.  Your choice.


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[CGUYS] gmail oddity

[Tony B]

That's interesting. Earlier this week a cguys thread went off-list and
I assumed she had done that on purpose, though I couldn't figure out
why. Now I'm wondering.

But it couldn't have been iGoogle here, as I use permatab in Firefox
to keep Gmail open, and only visit iGoogle infrequently as it's my
home page..


On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Jeff Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Gmail is getting particularly frustrating as it will sometimes send replies
> to the actual sender and not the listserve.
>
> I thought I had replied from the full Gmail, which replies to the list, and
> not from the iGoogle plug-in, which replies to the sender.  Grrr


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Jeff Wright]

> If I were going to spend that much on a computer I would spend it on a
> Mac.

Well, at least *you* will admit that Macs cost more than PCs.


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Re: [CGUYS] avg

[Jeff Wright]

> i had 7.5 on the last computer. now all i can find is 8.0.  i have
> heard that 8.0 comes with a lot of baggage.  can the baggage be
> avoided.
> 
> 
> have vista OS.

I use 8.0 on Vista and have no trouble.  Not sure what the baggage is
supposed to be, but no bellboy has shown up to get it.


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Re: [CGUYS] yes or no to mcafee

[Jeff Wright]

> Actually, it is broken inasmuch as I can't get it to scan an individual
> file
> or folder using the windows explorer shell command but I am waiting for
> a
> reply from their excellent tech support vie email.

Gmail is getting particularly frustrating as it will sometimes send replies
to the actual sender and not the listserve.

I thought I had replied from the full Gmail, which replies to the list, and
not from the iGoogle plug-in, which replies to the sender.  Grrr


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

It is actually very good still brewed at the home place.

Used to live up there.  It is an acquired taste.

Buy it at SAM's

Stewart


At 06:26 PM 11/18/2008, you wrote:

>Leinenkugels?

SABMiller PLC? Probably not.


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Tom Piwowar]

>Leinenkugels?

SABMiller PLC? Probably not.


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Tom Piwowar]

>Yes, but anyone looking to pay $300 for a computer isn't looking for a
>4-way system.  Another $100 on a $900 system isn't so bad.  Quad-core
>systems should be norm within the next 1-2 years and that price
>premium will disappear.  You'll have to find another excuse to make a
>beer run.

If I were going to spend that much on a computer I would spend it on a 
Mac.


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Leinenkugels?

Stewart


At 05:32 PM 11/18/2008, you wrote:

>I so had you pegged as a Coors Light man.

Blurghh!


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Network wiring

[db]

No, my understanding is that the ground code is not directed at 
lightning strikes but at preventing your data cable from becoming the 
functional internal ground loop instantly carrying a LOT of current if 
one of the two normal ground paths of the separate power/ground sources 
become disabled by mishap ...


The code is meant to create a failsafe non dangerous design for when 
things go wrong...
My understanding  is minimal... an electrician or electrical engineer 
would know the answer to this...


db

Tom Piwowar wrote:
Technically you may be running afoul of electrical grounding building 
code when you do this if you are using a cable to connect electrically 
powered devices that are being powered from different breaker boxes/ 
grounds.



So you may need to add isolators. What do those cost?


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Re: [CGUYS] yes or no to mcafee

[RLeeSimon]

Actually, it is broken inasmuch as I can't get it to scan an individual file
or folder using the windows explorer shell command but I am waiting for a
reply from their excellent tech support vie email.

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Wright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 6:32 PM
To: RLeeSimon
Subject: Re: yes or no to mcafee


> Isn't AVG the one in the news that locked up lotsa peoples boxes 
> recently with an online upgrade that they had2 do sommersaults to 
> fix??
>
> http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/app-security/showArticle.
> jhtml?
> articleID=212001916
>
> I have been using Avast and am quite happy so far...

Yes it is, but I never saw that happen on any of the systems I have AVG on.

Echoing db, if Avast isn't broken, don't fix it.


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Tom Piwowar]

>I so had you pegged as a Coors Light man.

Blurghh!


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Re: [CGUYS] Network wiring

[Tom Piwowar]

>Technically you may be running afoul of electrical grounding building 
>code when you do this if you are using a cable to connect electrically 
>powered devices that are being powered from different breaker boxes/ 
>grounds.

So you may need to add isolators. What do those cost?


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Jeff Wright]

> Paying an extra $100 for a $300 computer is significant in relative
> terms. In absolute terms $100 will buy a lot of beer. Given the choice of
> beer or cores I may very well go with the beer. At least the beer will
> make me feel better about owning a PeeCee.

Yes, but anyone looking to pay $300 for a computer isn't looking for a
4-way system.  Another $100 on a $900 system isn't so bad.  Quad-core
systems should be norm within the next 1-2 years and that price
premium will disappear.  You'll have to find another excuse to make a
beer run.

> But back to the original question...
>
> "Other than the internet I mostly use MS office and an older dos based
> accounting program I need to keep. I don't play games or do any video or
> photoshop stuff."
>
> "I will be replacing a 3 year old Dell OptiPlex 620 that has a 3.60
> gigahertz Intel Pentium 4, Windows XP and 2gb RAM."
>
> Is the quad-core going to run these apps any better than the P4?

Nope. But if this were a 2 GHz P4 system or a laptop, a dual-core
system would be a very nice upgrade.  The lower power requirements of
newer CPUs suits laptops very well.

> If it were me I would do some maintenance on the P4 and spend the $$$ on
> something more useful.

I agree; that's a perfectly serviceable system for those very modest
requirements, assuming they never change.

My opera-loving mother-in-law probably won't be able to watch the Met
performances that didn't exist when she bought her 2.8 GHz P4 system.
Is that a reason to buy a new computer?  Not to me, but if you are
already in the market, it's something to keep in mind.


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Re: [CGUYS] Network wiring

[Tom Piwowar]

>1000' of Cat 5e cable at HomeDepot for $60. and the Job is done in 
>an afternoon.

That HomeDepot wire is for running indoors and is not even fire-rated for 
running in walls or overhead.

If you run it underground, you can't bury it inless you run it in a 
conduit. That will cost more than the cable. Or you could buy cable that 
is rated for underground use. How much more does that cost? And who's 
going to dig the trench? Are you going to rent a trenching tool or hire 
some illegals to dig? What will that cost?

If you run it overhead you will need a cable to support its weight and 
some intermediate supports. The exposed cable will be subject to 
weathering and will eventually become too noisy to use. So you need to 
buy cable that is rated for underground use. How much more does that 
cost? Do you have posts to support the long run or are you going to erect 
posts? What does that cost? Who's doing the digging? Cost?


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Jeff Wright]

>>And if you decide beer is more useful (and I could understand why), would
>>you say Old Dominion beer be more useful than say Bud?
>
> Old Dominion Lager. Definitely.

I so had you pegged as a Coors Light man.


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Re: [CGUYS] Network wiring

[db]

Technically you may be running afoul of electrical grounding building 
code when you do this if you are using a cable to connect electrically 
powered devices that are being powered from different breaker boxes/ 
grounds.


Something to look into perhaps...

db

Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
I agree with that solution and would try it first time out. (Above 
ground to make sure it works, then bury cable.  If you want to make 
sure it is safe, use a plastic water pipe to shield it.)


When I got to my present church, I tried wireless to see if I could 
get a signal to my office which is a separate building away.  Could 
not get a reliable signal.  So I got my cables out and we ran one 
(overhead) from one building to the next, and used a coupler (Run was 
not over length) in the building to get it to my office.  They have 
since relocated my office and I am in the main building but because of 
topography I still have a hard line to my office.  (The church is 
built in the round with a lot of brick walls which are then set at an 
angle which limits wireless signal)


Stewart




At 04:27 PM 11/18/2008, you wrote:

Larry,

Vicky's first solution is where I would start.  Just make sure the 
distance from building to garage is less than 330feet.
Its hard wired so there is less chance of interference. Just make 
sure the cable is protected so it wont get sliced.  You can run a 
test cable on the ground as proof of concept, and if it works well 
make it permanent. Best buy sells a $15 4 port switch from Linksys, 
which would just require a power source in the garage. 1000' of Cat 
5e cable at HomeDepot for $60. and the Job is done in an afternoon.


"1. Running new Cat5 cable from one house to an ethernet switch ($30 or
  so for a 100Mbps switch with 5 or 8 ports) in the garage, and then
  more cable from the switch to the 2nd house. "


Mike


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Network wiring

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

I agree with that solution and would try it first time out. (Above 
ground to make sure it works, then bury cable.  If you want to make 
sure it is safe, use a plastic water pipe to shield it.)


When I got to my present church, I tried wireless to see if I could 
get a signal to my office which is a separate building away.  Could 
not get a reliable signal.  So I got my cables out and we ran one 
(overhead) from one building to the next, and used a coupler (Run was 
not over length) in the building to get it to my office.  They have 
since relocated my office and I am in the main building but because 
of topography I still have a hard line to my office.  (The church is 
built in the round with a lot of brick walls which are then set at an 
angle which limits wireless signal)


Stewart




At 04:27 PM 11/18/2008, you wrote:

Larry,

Vicky's first solution is where I would start.  Just make sure the 
distance from building to garage is less than 330feet.
Its hard wired so there is less chance of interference. Just make 
sure the cable is protected so it wont get sliced.  You can run a 
test cable on the ground as proof of concept, and if it works well 
make it permanent. Best buy sells a $15 4 port switch from Linksys, 
which would just require a power source in the garage. 1000' of Cat 
5e cable at HomeDepot for $60. and the Job is done in an afternoon.


"1. Running new Cat5 cable from one house to an ethernet switch ($30 or
  so for a 100Mbps switch with 5 or 8 ports) in the garage, and then
  more cable from the switch to the 2nd house. "


Mike


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Network wiring

[Michael Drabick]

Larry,

Vicky's first solution is where I would start.  Just make sure the 
distance from building to garage is less than 330feet.
Its hard wired so there is less chance of interference. Just make sure 
the cable is protected so it wont get sliced.  You can run a test cable 
on the ground as proof of concept, and if it works well make it 
permanent. Best buy sells a $15 4 port switch from Linksys, which would 
just require a power source in the garage. 1000' of Cat 5e cable at 
HomeDepot for $60. and the Job is done in an afternoon.


"1. Running new Cat5 cable from one house to an ethernet switch ($30 or
  so for a 100Mbps switch with 5 or 8 ports) in the garage, and then
  more cable from the switch to the 2nd house. "


Mike

Larry Sacks wrote:

$500 a pair?  I already know the next question that I'll get ... is there a 
lower budget solution?

They just shelled out several thousand to get their driveway paved over (apparently the gravel driveway was no longer acceptable) so their budget is somewhat limited.  


Larry


-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom 
Piwowar
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 4:59 PM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Network wiring

  
At one time there were amplifiers (I think) that could be used to 
amplify a wired signal.  You simply plugged in the cable to one end 
and another cable to the next and gave it power and it amplified the 
signal for long distance.



Yes, this is what I would look at first. It would be higher speed and 
probably be more relable than wireless. You put a box at either end of 
the straight copper pair and connect each box to the LAN at each 
location. Such boxes are called "Ethernet Copper Extenders" and cost 
about $500 a pair. 


see www.ethernetextender.com for one example


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--

*Mike Drabick
HDH Construction Consultants, Inc
200 Harry S. Truman Parkway
Suite 220
Annapolis, MD 21401
410-571-1100
410-571-1177 Fax*



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[CGUYS] avg

[gerald]

i had 7.5 on the last computer. now all i can find is 8.0.  i have heard that 
8.0 comes with a lot of baggage.  can the baggage be avoided.


have vista OS. 


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Re: [CGUYS] home phone wires

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Go with an AR-15 locally made and uses American ammo!  :-)

Stewart


At 01:53 PM 11/18/2008, you wrote:

>That's the cheapest solution but that leaves me with no wires
>which means possible outage on a bad day...

A box of MREs and an AK-47 should take care of that for you.


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] better

[Brian Jones]

There are Sooo many things that can do that and a large one (as 
mentioned) is the hard drive.
You mentioned that these machines have the same software... not likely, 
since they are from 2 different companies.

Check the task manager and see what system programs are loaded.
Motherboard design and memory speed can give a noticable difference in 
responsivness.
The IBM likely has a better/faster video card eliminating bottlenecks during 
screen updates.
The IBM has an Intel Pentium M processor (March 2003), much newer than the 
Dell's P4 (Nov 2000) processor, and with many speed improvments in the way 
data is moved across the bus, amount of cache memory, and more.. (see 
www.intel.com and look at the spec's for these two processors).


I would not worry about the speed difference just save some money and 
buy a Core 2 Duo machine (Mac or IBM) and you will wonder why you waited so 
long.


 - Brian



- Original Message - 
From: "RLeeSimon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Subject: [CGUYS] better



How come my IBM ThinkpadX31 PM1.4 2gb ram (but the same was true before I
upgraded from 1gb ram) with exactly the same stuff running (except for 
lots

of ibm stuff extra) runs and performs sooo much better than my Dell
PIV2(w/intel speed boost) 1gb ram (max it will take) running the same but
none of that ibm stuff?  Neither has any viri or spy or other fections...
d'oh!!



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Re: [CGUYS] xm radio

[Brian Jones]

Your XM radio is passive... it receives, but does not transmit.
When you registered for service, you gave the serial number of your receiver 
to XM.  XM sends a message to your XM to decode only the programs to which 
you subscribe. (all XM radio's receive the message, but only yours will 
react to the message.)


 - Brian


- Original Message - 
From: "gerald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Subject: [CGUYS] xm radio


can xm radio track my listening habits?  do they know how many are 
listening to howard stern?



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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Tom Piwowar]

>Just to reiterate (this is not directed at you Richard), there many reasons
>to buy a multi-core CPU for an ever-growing number of mainstream
>environments and scenarios where you will actually benefit from it, if not
>today then soon, and only one reason to buy a single-core CPU:  price.  Even
>that isn't a good reason.

And make sure that multi-core comes with a big honkin RAID!


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Re: [CGUYS] yes or no to mcafee

[db]

No need to change then.
All security software has its broken upgrades ... pros delay upgrades so 
as to avoid this inherent "bleeding edge"...


db

RLeeSimon wrote:

Isn't AVG the one in the news that locked up lotsa peoples boxes recently
with an online upgrade that they had2 do sommersaults to fix??

http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/app-security/showArticle.jhtml?
articleID=212001916

I have been using Avast and am quite happy so far...

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Wright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:02 AM

Subject: Re: yes or no to mcafee


  
I just got comcast internet snail plan (768up) which is ok for me 
having had dialup (56k but really around 23-28k at best) for 
years...comcast offers MacAfee suite which installs easily ...but the 
cost in speed and footprint on the resources is very high which makes 
my pIV2-1gb-winXPhomeSP3 machine run notably slower with many 
"hourglass" times and very slow boot ...I took off MacAfee and put 
back Avast and ZoneAlarm free and it's back to normal ... my net is 
behind a router ...is this all I need?



Mcafee? *NO*  Dear god, no.

AVG is much better and free.  Not running as admin is the better solution.


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Re: [CGUYS] yes or no to mcafee

[RLeeSimon]

Isn't AVG the one in the news that locked up lotsa peoples boxes recently
with an online upgrade that they had2 do sommersaults to fix??

http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/app-security/showArticle.jhtml?
articleID=212001916

I have been using Avast and am quite happy so far...

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Wright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: yes or no to mcafee


> I just got comcast internet snail plan (768up) which is ok for me 
> having had dialup (56k but really around 23-28k at best) for 
> years...comcast offers MacAfee suite which installs easily ...but the 
> cost in speed and footprint on the resources is very high which makes 
> my pIV2-1gb-winXPhomeSP3 machine run notably slower with many 
> "hourglass" times and very slow boot ...I took off MacAfee and put 
> back Avast and ZoneAlarm free and it's back to normal ... my net is 
> behind a router ...is this all I need?

Mcafee? *NO*  Dear god, no.

AVG is much better and free.  Not running as admin is the better solution.


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Re: [CGUYS] better

[Tom Piwowar]

>how does one "clear" the prefetch?

Drag the folder contents into the trash. It can do wonders.


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Re: [CGUYS] home phone wires

[Tom Piwowar]

>That's the cheapest solution but that leaves me with no wires
>which means possible outage on a bad day...

A box of MREs and an AK-47 should take care of that for you.


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Tom Piwowar]

>And if you decide beer is more useful (and I could understand why), would 
>you say Old Dominion beer be more useful than say Bud?  

Old Dominion Lager. Definitely.


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Re: [CGUYS] home phone wires

[Tom Piwowar]

>Comcast offers fone over cable for $24.95/mo local only or $34.95(x6mo,then
>$39.95) unlim long distance ...isn't that VOIP?  I have the low end cable
>internet (sold 768up) already and free basic tv...or is there something
>better as far as voip??

That's VOIP. Expensive VOIP, but VOIP nevertheless.


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Re: [CGUYS] home phone wires

[RLeeSimon]

Comcast offers fone over cable for $24.95/mo local only or $34.95(x6mo,then
$39.95) unlim long distance ...isn't that VOIP?  I have the low end cable
internet (sold 768up) already and free basic tv...or is there something
better as far as voip??

-Original Message-
From: Tom Piwowar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: home phone wires


>I've got 2 lines phone wired throughout the house ...I am consisdering 
>closing out all the landlines ...to what use could those wires be or 
>just remain as mouse fodder?

Connect the wired lines to VOIP? Or did you get rid of DSL too?


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Re: [CGUYS] better

[RLeeSimon]

Clearing the registry ain't difficult ...there are a few registry fixers
which I have not noticed to be helpful ...how does one "clear" the prefetch?
I sent the drive stuff separately to the list and jeff...you will see them
there ...summary: desktop has 160gb/7200/8mb and laptop has 120gb/5400/8mb
and runs better with slower processor ...d'oh!!

-Original Message-
From: Tom Piwowar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: better


>How come my IBM ThinkpadX31 PM1.4 2gb ram (but the same was true before
>I upgraded from 1gb ram) with exactly the same stuff running (except 
>for lots of ibm stuff extra) runs and performs sooo much better than my 
>Dell PIV2(w/intel speed boost) 1gb ram (max it will take) running the 
>same but none of that ibm stuff?  Neither has any viri or spy or other 
>fections...

Could be things like the hard drive.

I see the largest factor with Windows seems to be crap that accumulates 
in the OS. It could be the registry or in could be the caches or the 
prefetch. Clearing or fixing those often speeds things up a lot.


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Re: [CGUYS] better

[RLeeSimon]

Laptop IBM x31 upgraded a while ago to: WD WD1200VE 120gb drive 5400rpm 8mb
cache ...chose this over 7200 because of possibility of excessive heat...

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Wright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: better


I will wager on hard drive rotational velocity and disk cache size.  The
difference in performance between a 4200 RPM and a 5400 RPM system, or 5400
to 7200 RPM system, is significant.  Most older drives have a 2 MB cache.

I'm using a circa 2001 Dell Latitude C600 P3-750 laptop (512 MB RAM running
XP) at home with an upgraded 7200 RPM drive (8 MB cache) and it is fast
enough for my needs.  I wouldn't use it with a slower drive in it.

> -Original Message-
> How come my IBM ThinkpadX31 PM1.4 2gb ram (but the same was true 
> before I upgraded from 1gb ram) with exactly the same stuff running 
> (except for lots of ibm stuff extra) runs and performs sooo much 
> better than my Dell PIV2(w/intel speed boost) 1gb ram (max it will 
> take) running the same but none of that ibm stuff?  Neither has any 
> viri or spy or other fections...


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Re: [CGUYS] better

[RLeeSimon]

I upgraded recently to a Maxtor DiamondMax20 which should perform better
than the prior seagateST3120026A 7200 8mbCache but rated slower (95)...
Maxtor specs:

Features
Storage Capacity160GB
Data Transfer Rate  100MBps Maximum External
ManufacturerSeagate Technology
Form Factor 3.5" Internal 
Rotational Speed7200 rpm
Interfaces/Ports1 x 40-pin IDC Ultra ATA/100 (ATA-6)
IDE/EIDE
Manufacturer Part Number60160V0
Dimensions  1.03" Height x 0.46" Width x 5.78" Depth
Manufacturer Website Addresswww.seagate.com
Weight  20.46 oz
Product NameMaxtor DiamondMax 20 Hard Drive
Product TypeHard Drive


 
Tech Specs
Storage Capacity160GB
Data Transfer Rate  100MBps Maximum External
ManufacturerSeagate Technology
Form Factor 3.5" Internal 
Manufacturer Part Number60160V0
Rotational Speed7200 rpm
Manufacturer Website Addresswww.seagate.com
Dimensions  1.03" Height x 0.46" Width x 5.78" Depth
Interfaces/Ports1 x 40-pin IDC Ultra ATA/100 (ATA-6)
IDE/EIDE
Product LineDiamondMax
Weight  20.46 oz
Buffer  8MB
Product NameMaxtor DiamondMax 20 Hard Drive
Product TypeHard Drive

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Wright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: better


I will wager on hard drive rotational velocity and disk cache size.  The
difference in performance between a 4200 RPM and a 5400 RPM system, or 5400
to 7200 RPM system, is significant.  Most older drives have a 2 MB cache.

I'm using a circa 2001 Dell Latitude C600 P3-750 laptop (512 MB RAM running
XP) at home with an upgraded 7200 RPM drive (8 MB cache) and it is fast
enough for my needs.  I wouldn't use it with a slower drive in it.

> -Original Message-
> How come my IBM ThinkpadX31 PM1.4 2gb ram (but the same was true 
> before I upgraded from 1gb ram) with exactly the same stuff running 
> (except for lots of ibm stuff extra) runs and performs sooo much 
> better than my Dell PIV2(w/intel speed boost) 1gb ram (max it will 
> take) running the same but none of that ibm stuff?  Neither has any 
> viri or spy or other fections...


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Larry Sacks]

>>Multi-core systems are now the norm and have a negligible price hit.  
>>Even quad-core systems are only about $100 more than dual-core systems.

>Paying an extra $100 for a $300 computer is significant in relative terms. In 
>absolute terms $100 will >buy a lot of beer. Given the choice of beer or cores 
>I may very well go with the beer. At least the >beer will make me feel better 
>about owning a PeeCee. 

>If it were me I would do some maintenance on the P4 and spend the $$$ on 
>something more useful.

So that begs the question... which is more useful?  Beer or a Mac?

And if you decide beer is more useful (and I could understand why), would you 
say Old Dominion beer be more useful than say Bud?  

Larry


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Re: [CGUYS] yes or no to mcafee

[db]

I second both of those concepts ...

db

Jeff Wright wrote:

I just got comcast internet snail plan (768up) which is ok for me having had
dialup (56k but really around 23-28k at best) for years...comcast offers
MacAfee suite which installs easily ...but the cost in speed and footprint
on the resources is very high which makes my pIV2-1gb-winXPhomeSP3 machine
run notably slower with many "hourglass" times and very slow boot ...I took
off MacAfee and put back Avast and ZoneAlarm free and it's back to normal
... my net is behind a router ...is this all I need?



Mcafee? *NO*  Dear god, no.

AVG is much better and free.  Not running as admin is the better solution.


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Tom Piwowar]

>Multi-core systems are now the norm and have a negligible price hit.  Even
>quad-core systems are only about $100 more than dual-core systems.

Paying an extra $100 for a $300 computer is significant in relative 
terms. In absolute terms $100 will buy a lot of beer. Given the choice of 
beer or cores I may very well go with the beer. At least the beer will 
make me feel better about owning a PeeCee.

But back to the original question...

"Other than the internet I mostly use MS office and an older dos based 
accounting program I need to keep. I don't play games or do any video or 
photoshop stuff."

"I will be replacing a 3 year old Dell OptiPlex 620 that has a 3.60 
gigahertz 
Intel Pentium 4, Windows XP and 2gb RAM."

Is the quad-core going to run these apps any better than the P4?

I don't think so.

If it were me I would do some maintenance on the P4 and spend the $$$ on 
something more useful.


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Re: [CGUYS] home phone wires

[RLeeSimon]

I've got comcast cable slow but much better internet (sold 768up, getting
650-750up) and their free useless limited basic cableTV (mostly shopping,
bulletinboard for churches, and junk) ...waddaya want4free??  ...I can get
local fone for $24.95/mo with cw/id/3way/answeringmachine incl. or $34.95/mo
with long distance unlimited us/mex/can... I don't need the long distance as
I have the cell fones ...I am considering bluetoothing a cell fone to the
cordless fones I have that allow cell outcalls from any extension ...extra
cellfone would be $9.95/mo share minutes with the other 2 with rollover
(att)...  That's the cheapest solution but that leaves me with no wires
which means possible outage on a bad day...

-Original Message-
From: Tom Piwowar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: home phone wires


>I've got 2 lines phone wired throughout the house ...I am consisdering 
>closing out all the landlines ...to what use could those wires be or 
>just remain as mouse fodder?

Connect the wired lines to VOIP? Or did you get rid of DSL too?


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Re: [CGUYS] Not as OT: Working with video in iMovie

[Tom Piwowar]

>The area I'm shooting in is rather tight, & I'm trying to maximize the 
>horizontal space.  The camera I have is great for zooming, but not so good 
>for wide angle (it's a Canon ZR900).

It is well known that letterboxing takes forever.

You probably should set iMovie's preferences to disable automatic 
letterboxing.

Why not apply the letterboxing after you have completed your first cut? 
You'll have less content to process that way.


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Re: [CGUYS] Network wiring

[b_s-wilk]

Rob Flickenger's "Wireless Hacks" book has been released as open source. 
Although it was released in 2003, much of what you need to know about 
wireless starts here, http://www.freeopenbook.com/wireless-hacks/.


We made a cantenna out of a coffee can. The most difficult part was 
finding a lucent cable and attach an N-connector. Everything else is 
easy. However, a mesh antenna has better range -- over a mile. An old 
Primestar antenna can be modified for a longer range too, but it's more 
complicated; ours is sitting out by the shed, waiting to be adapted [or 
adopted].


Betty.


$500 a pair?  I already know the next question that I'll get ... is there a 
lower budget solution?

They just shelled out several thousand to get their driveway paved over 
(apparently the gravel driveway was no longer acceptable) so their budget is 
somewhat limited.


I think your _affordable_ solutions come down to 2 main possibilities:
1. Running new Cat5 cable from one house to an ethernet switch ($30 or
   so for a 100Mbps switch with 5 or 8 ports) in the garage, and then
   more cable from the switch to the 2nd house.
2. Getting a more powerful (and directional) antenna for wifi. The
   common term for this is a "cantenna" (some DIY versions use Pringles
   cans as the outer housing). You can buy at www.cantenna.com, or
   look for DIY guides at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantenna
   (The first thing to get is a pair of Wifi routers or Access Points
   with detachable antennas, which you can replace by connecting a coax
   cable.) 



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Re: [CGUYS] Not as OT: Working with video in iMovie

[David Turk]

The area I'm shooting in is rather tight, & I'm trying to maximize the 
horizontal space.  The camera I have is great for zooming, but not so good for 
wide angle (it's a Canon ZR900).

I can take a look at my preferences, & see if there's something else I'm doing 
that I don't need to.

I'll also see if I can get a baseline on time.  Thanks.

  david

David Turk
Manager, Preservation Imaging Services
Indiana Historical Society
Eugene and Marilyn Glick Indiana History Center
450 W. Ohio St.
Indianapolis, IN  46202
(317) 232-4592
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony 
B
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:11 PM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Not as OT: Working with video in iMovie

Of course, it's the letterboxing that's taking all the time. Is there
some *good* reason to do this? Please don't answer "we want to fool
the viewers into thinking it's HD" because that's not a *good* reason.

Although a straight encode to mpg2 for DVD shouldn't take that long
either. Ten minutes of SD footage shouldn't take more than maybe 8
minutes to render. Are you also altering the footage in some way?

Really, you need to get a baseline. Throw a simple SD title on the
timeline say, 10 seconds in duration. Render to mpg2 and time it. My
dual core PC takes 3 seconds.


On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 10:53 AM, David Turk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Most of the video I've worked with hasn't been longer than 10 minutes, & it 
> could take several hours for that.  I'm working with hour-long video now, & I 
> am amazed at how long it's taking.  After capturing the video, it took 2 ½ 
> hours for iMovie to "Letterbox" it, & it's taken 3 hours this morning to 
> encode & burn the video to disc.  I know my system is far from ideal (1.67 
> GHx PowerPC, with OS 10.4.1 & 1GB of RAM), but this is all I've got to work 
> with; I'm using my own equipment, because Admin says there's no money to 
> purchase the system we need.  I can add another 1GB of RAM, but is that going 
> to make much difference?  tia.


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Re: [CGUYS] Not as OT: Working with video in iMovie

[Tony B]

Of course, it's the letterboxing that's taking all the time. Is there
some *good* reason to do this? Please don't answer "we want to fool
the viewers into thinking it's HD" because that's not a *good* reason.

Although a straight encode to mpg2 for DVD shouldn't take that long
either. Ten minutes of SD footage shouldn't take more than maybe 8
minutes to render. Are you also altering the footage in some way?

Really, you need to get a baseline. Throw a simple SD title on the
timeline say, 10 seconds in duration. Render to mpg2 and time it. My
dual core PC takes 3 seconds.


On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 10:53 AM, David Turk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Most of the video I've worked with hasn't been longer than 10 minutes, & it 
> could take several hours for that.  I'm working with hour-long video now, & I 
> am amazed at how long it's taking.  After capturing the video, it took 2 ½ 
> hours for iMovie to "Letterbox" it, & it's taken 3 hours this morning to 
> encode & burn the video to disc.  I know my system is far from ideal (1.67 
> GHx PowerPC, with OS 10.4.1 & 1GB of RAM), but this is all I've got to work 
> with; I'm using my own equipment, because Admin says there's no money to 
> purchase the system we need.  I can add another 1GB of RAM, but is that going 
> to make much difference?  tia.


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Re: [CGUYS] yes or no to mcafee

[Jeff Wright]

> I just got comcast internet snail plan (768up) which is ok for me having had
> dialup (56k but really around 23-28k at best) for years...comcast offers
> MacAfee suite which installs easily ...but the cost in speed and footprint
> on the resources is very high which makes my pIV2-1gb-winXPhomeSP3 machine
> run notably slower with many "hourglass" times and very slow boot ...I took
> off MacAfee and put back Avast and ZoneAlarm free and it's back to normal
> ... my net is behind a router ...is this all I need?

Mcafee? *NO*  Dear god, no.

AVG is much better and free.  Not running as admin is the better solution.


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[CGUYS] Not as OT: Working with video in iMovie

[David Turk]

Most of the video I've worked with hasn't been longer than 10 minutes, & it 
could take several hours for that.  I'm working with hour-long video now, & I 
am amazed at how long it's taking.  After capturing the video, it took 2 ½ 
hours for iMovie to "Letterbox" it, & it's taken 3 hours this morning to encode 
& burn the video to disc.  I know my system is far from ideal (1.67 GHx 
PowerPC, with OS 10.4.1 & 1GB of RAM), but this is all I've got to work with; 
I'm using my own equipment, because Admin says there's no money to purchase the 
system we need.  I can add another 1GB of RAM, but is that going to make much 
difference?  tia.

david

David Turk
Manager, Preservation Imaging Services
Indiana Historical Society
Eugene and Marilyn Glick Indiana History Center
450 W. Ohio St.
Indianapolis, IN  46202
(317) 232-4592
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Jeff Wright]

Related news:

http://enews.penton.com/enews/windowsitpro/wininfodaily/2008_november_17_111708/display

--Intel Ships Next-Gen Core i7 Microprocessor by Paul Thurrott

Microprocessor giant Intel delivered its next-generation Core i7 chips
to customers today. The i7 represents Intel's biggest architectural
change since its mobile-oriented Core chips debuted almost three years
ago. This time around, the base chips feature four processor cores,
each of which is capable of executing two threads simultaneously,
effectively providing the performance of eight processors in
compatible applications.

The Core i7 chips -- code-named Nehalem during development -- have
debuted to overwhelmingly positive reviews. But remember, so did the
original Pentium, which was quickly found to have a small but crucial
floating-point bug that necessitated a $400 million recall in 1994.
Intel has completely overhauled the way it develops microprocessors
since then, of course, but each new major architectural reworking
triggers fears of another problem once the chips are out in the real
world.

Intel's new chips are much more complex than the Core 2 Duo processors
they'll eventually replace in the market, but they also provide
dramatic performance benefits. There are several reasons for this
improvement, including Intel's decisions to move the memory controller
directly into the CPU die, bring back its hyper-threading technology
from chips past, and speed the communication of data between the
processor cores. The i7 can also selectively turn off as many as three
of its processor cores and throttle the remaining cores up to turbo
speeds, increasing performance yet again.

What the current i7 really delivers is a baseline for future PC
performance, although the initial chips, as always, are aimed at the
workstation and server markets. The current first-generation chips
easily break the 3GHz barrier without any loss of power-management
efficiency compared with Core 2 Duo chips. But they can also easily be
overclocked to above 4GHz, suggesting even more impressive performance
in the near future.


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Re: [CGUYS] better

[Tom Piwowar]

>How come my IBM ThinkpadX31 PM1.4 2gb ram (but the same was true before I
>upgraded from 1gb ram) with exactly the same stuff running (except for lots
>of ibm stuff extra) runs and performs sooo much better than my Dell
>PIV2(w/intel speed boost) 1gb ram (max it will take) running the same but
>none of that ibm stuff?  Neither has any viri or spy or other fections...

Could be things like the hard drive.

I see the largest factor with Windows seems to be crap that accumulates 
in the OS. It could be the registry or in could be the caches or the 
prefetch. Clearing or fixing those often speeds things up a lot.


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Tom Piwowar]

>Nope.  You can walk right up to ours and they aren't 30 dpi.

Well that proves my point.


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Jeff Wright]

> The last go-around we had multi-processors for a few years and the
> software never caught up. Instead the reason for multi-processors
> evaporated and they went away. So anyone who was trying to solve the
> difficult problems of coding for them was wasting their time.

I would argue that the economics and market are very different now.  Multi
processor systems were much more expensive than single processor systems.
Why pay $300++ for that additional CPU?

Multi-core systems are now the norm and have a negligible price hit.  Even
quad-core systems are only about $100 more than dual-core systems.
 
> With that history, nobody is racing to do the heavy lifting on
> multi-cores.

It's a very different situation now and software developers that don't take
advantage of the new architecture will be left in the dust ultimately.  Look
for 64-bit software to start coming online finally (even though that's a RAM
issue, not CPU).

> Much of the time the additional cores sit idle or run at a very low
> percentage of their capacity.

True, but so what?  Do you use every room in your house all the time?  You
don't have a guest bedroom or 2nd bathroom?


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Jeff Wright]

> Graphics larger than 24 x 36 are typically viewed from a distance and
> created with ink jets using stochastic screens. Both of these call for
> much lower dpi. Instead of 300 dpi, the resolution is typically around
> 30 dpi. So file sizes are much smaller.

Nope.  You can walk right up to ours and they aren't 30 dpi.

> Every time I have encountered file sizes like you describe, and that
> has been many times in my 25 years of doing this, the computer operator
was
> clueless.

You obviously need to get out more.

> Or they could be exceedingly clever. Could be that they are trying to
> break the PCs so that you will finally relent and do the right thing --
> get them Macs.

I've offered our graphics guy the option of having a Mac alongside his PC
and he's turned me down.  No need from what he can see.


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Re: [CGUYS] better

[Jeff Wright]

I will wager on hard drive rotational velocity and disk cache size.  The
difference in performance between a 4200 RPM and a 5400 RPM system, or 5400
to 7200 RPM system, is significant.  Most older drives have a 2 MB cache.

I'm using a circa 2001 Dell Latitude C600 P3-750 laptop (512 MB RAM running
XP) at home with an upgraded 7200 RPM drive (8 MB cache) and it is fast
enough for my needs.  I wouldn't use it with a slower drive in it.

> -Original Message-
> How come my IBM ThinkpadX31 PM1.4 2gb ram (but the same was true before
> I upgraded from 1gb ram) with exactly the same stuff running (except for
> lots of ibm stuff extra) runs and performs sooo much better than my Dell
> PIV2(w/intel speed boost) 1gb ram (max it will take) running the same
> but none of that ibm stuff?  Neither has any viri or spy or other
> fections...


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Tom Piwowar]

>Is there a way to monitor the separate CPU's?

Task Manager graphs each CPU or core separately.


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Tom Piwowar]

>Again, I never claimed it was a common size encountered.  And some of our
>graphics are much larger than 24 x 36.

Graphics larger than 24 x 36 are typically viewed from a distance and 
created with ink jets using stochastic screens. Both of these call for 
much lower dpi. Instead of 300 dpi, the resolution is typically around 30 
dpi. So file sizes are much smaller.

Every time I have encountered file sizes like you describe, and that has 
been many times in my 25 years of doing this, the computer operator was 
clueless.

Or they could be exceedingly clever. Could be that they are trying to 
break the PCs so that you will finally relent and do the right thing -- 
get them Macs.


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Jeff Wright]

> Is there a way to monitor the separate CPU's?

In Windows, you just use the Task Manager.  For Vista, there are a number of
system monitoring widgets for the sidebar that will do the same.

Just to reiterate (this is not directed at you Richard), there many reasons
to buy a multi-core CPU for an ever-growing number of mainstream
environments and scenarios where you will actually benefit from it, if not
today then soon, and only one reason to buy a single-core CPU:  price.  Even
that isn't a good reason.

If all you can afford is a used P4 system, then I won't quibble with you.
But this isn't 2006 and multi-cores don't have a several hundred $$$ premium
attached to them any longer.  You can get a multi-core CPU system for about
$50 more and I will bet that you will see B-I-G deals on multi-core systems
this holiday season that will actually be less than a single core system.

Buy single core if you have very little money, or as we've seen in another
case, sense.


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Tom Piwowar]

>This is SOP in the history of software development:  the software grows to
>take advantage of the excess capacity of the hardware...

Sometimes, eventually it does. Sometimes it doesn't.

Programming for multi-processors or multi-cores can be very tricky. Some 
obvious things are easy to do -- like having the OS assign different 
programs to different processors. But when it comes to splitting up tasks 
within one program it can get messy. You have to deal with things like 
race condtions and error recovery when one of many threads dies.

The last go-around we had multi-processors for a few years and the 
software never caught up. Instead the reason for multi-processors 
evaporated and they went away. So anyone who was trying to solve the 
difficult problems of coding for them was wasting their time.

With that history, nobody is racing to do the heavy lifting on 
multi-cores.

Much of the time the additional cores sit idle or run at a very low 
percentage of their capacity.


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Tom Piwowar]

>Tom's the guy outside of Microcenter, shaking his fist at everyone that
>enters, yelling "Get an Altair!"

Actually "Get a Mac." And they are.


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Richard P.]

Is there a way to monitor the separate CPU's?

Richard P.

On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
I have been working with
> multi-processor and multi-core computers for years and commonly switch
> among them throughout the day. The only benefit I have ever seen occurs
> when one processor pegs its processor and the 2nd CPU starts to handle
> the GUI.


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Jeff Wright]

> -Original Message-
> I think they are bullshitting you. I have been working with
> multi-processor and multi-core computers for years and commonly switch
> among them throughout the day. The only benefit I have ever seen occurs
> when one processor pegs its processor and the 2nd CPU starts to handle
> the GUI.

Who's "they?"   Mine own eyes?

I'm not going to round and round with you and Tony on this.  Systems are
more responsive because the OS can use both cores for its own processes and
there are mainstream applications coming into the pipeline that you will
need serious hardware to use.  

This is SOP in the history of software development:  the software grows to
take advantage of the excess capacity of the hardware.  The Met HD example
is only the first such example and is not something that is aimed at the
"Gossip Girl" demographic.


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Jeff Wright]

> Creaping "Sludge" is the big killer...

No question.


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Jeff Wright]

> Every time you add a core the speed of processing can increase by no
> more than the speed of the added core. So a dual core can't be more than
> 200% faster than a single core. Claiming more than that can only be
magical
> thinking.

I claimed no such thing other than "much faster."  I didn't think I needed
to stop and do the numerical quantification of adjectives.

> P.S. Frequently working "with multi-hundred MB graphic files" makes no
> sense. Anyone who does that does not understand the technology or
> software. A 24" x 36" 300dpi CMYK uncompressed TIFF would be 300MB.
> That is not a size frequently encountered.

Again, I never claimed it was a common size encountered.  And some of our
graphics are much larger than 24 x 36.


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Re: [CGUYS] quad core graphics?

[Jeff Wright]

> For that the vendors have a new trick to get you to part with your
> money. Get ready for them to tell you that multiple identical cores are no
> good. Next step is to include cores that are optimized for specific tasks.
> 
> So don't spend too much on your magical multis.

Tom's the guy outside of Microcenter, shaking his fist at everyone that
enters, yelling "Get an Altair!"


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