Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
If you are so limiting your news source I can understand how you come by your viewpoints. If you read on the left blogosphere, Media Matters, TPM Muckraker, and Huffington Post you'll typically see links to legitimate researched reports. Didn't notice him saying that he limited his sources to these, did you? The conservatives love to refer to Media Matters as a left wing smear site. The problem with this is, MM documents *everything* it says with links to external materials, often to original sources. It's pretty hard to call something a smear when it uses original documents to prove that what you said was wrong. Well, I guess it's not *that* hard, since O'Reilly and others do it constantly. Repetition-makes-truth in action. The conservative commentators keep talking about how the rescue bill includes $4.something billion for ACORN; MM documents the falsity of this using links to the bill itself. Bernie Goldberg butchers the Brokaw/Rose interview; MM provides links to the actual interview so you can see what Brokaw really said. Limbaugh keeps saying that Obama favors infanticide (seriously); MM provides links to the original Illinois bill, Obama's comments, and the recorded vote showing that many Republicans took the same position. It goes on and on and on. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Every source I can recall him mentioning has been a left wing ax grinder. I did not say he reads nothing else, I said IF. I have not seen MM's take on Obama's support of infaticide, but it is real. I have read the original bill. I have read the final bill after it was modified to meet Obama's and other's objections. At the end of the day it was legal in Illinois for living infants to be allowed to die with no medical or pallitive assistance and that was a position Obama preferred as a matter of law. In what way is that not support for at least passive Infanticide? It matters not at all to the question of O's views that some R's also supported it. Matthew On Feb 12, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: If you are so limiting your news source I can understand how you come by your viewpoints. If you read on the left blogosphere, Media Matters, TPM Muckraker, and Huffington Post you'll typically see links to legitimate researched reports. Didn't notice him saying that he limited his sources to these, did you? The conservatives love to refer to Media Matters as a left wing smear site. The problem with this is, MM documents *everything* it says with links to external materials, often to original sources. It's pretty hard to call something a smear when it uses original documents to prove that what you said was wrong. Well, I guess it's not *that* hard, since O'Reilly and others do it constantly. Repetition-makes-truth in action. The conservative commentators keep talking about how the rescue bill includes $4.something billion for ACORN; MM documents the falsity of this using links to the bill itself. Bernie Goldberg butchers the Brokaw/ Rose interview; MM provides links to the actual interview so you can see what Brokaw really said. Limbaugh keeps saying that Obama favors infanticide (seriously); MM provides links to the original Illinois bill, Obama's comments, and the recorded vote showing that many Republicans took the same position. It goes on and on and on. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Sorry Chris but you are wrong on this one, MM is a left wing/progressive site, it does NOT monitor all news, only what it considers as 'right wing' disinformation. This from their site verbatim. *Media Matters for America* is a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media. On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:32 AM, Chris Dunford ch...@covesoftware.comwrote: The conservatives love to refer to Media Matters as a left wing smear site. The problem with this is, MM documents *everything* it says with links to external materials, often to original sources. It's pretty hard to call something a smear when it uses original documents to prove that what you said was wrong. Well, I guess it's not *that* hard, since O'Reilly and others do it constantly. Repetition-makes-truth in action. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Thank you Chris, Unless a person is actually broadminded, curious, or both, they won't look at a site like MM and see for them selves what we are talking about. If they are not broadminded or curious they'll resort to knee jerk responses and never look or understand, no matter how many times you tell them. By the way, there's a new article on Kos documenting how the right manipulates the media and scares the public in just the way we are talking about here. http://tinyurl.com/ahv9vz Chris Dunford wrote: Didn't notice him saying that he limited his sources to these, did you? The conservatives love to refer to Media Matters as a left wing smear site. The problem with this is, MM documents *everything* it says with links to external materials, often to original sources. It's pretty hard to call something a smear when it uses original documents to prove that what you said was wrong. Well, I guess it's not *that* hard, since O'Reilly and others do it constantly. Repetition-makes-truth in action. The conservative commentators keep talking about how the rescue bill includes $4.something billion for ACORN; MM documents the falsity of this using links to the bill itself. Bernie Goldberg butchers the Brokaw/Rose interview; MM provides links to the actual interview so you can see what Brokaw really said. Limbaugh keeps saying that Obama favors infanticide (seriously); MM provides links to the original Illinois bill, Obama's comments, and the recorded vote showing that many Republicans took the same position. It goes on and on and on. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] router security
Thanks for all the input. The problems I have experienced are of little or no consequence so far. I was just tinkering with router security to gain a better understanding of it. Now it seems likely that the problem was not with the router at all. If indeed the problem is totally with gmail, it is still of little consequence, since it is isolated to a short period of time on 2 days. Yesterday when I had the problem, I went to a gmail help page and there was a message apologizing and explaining the problem. I'll see if there is a problem again today. Thanks again. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
I've stayed out of this thread until now, because over the years I have learned the utter futility in having political discussions with hardcore liberals. It's simply not worth it. Conservatives sometimes have a somewhat better grip on reality and can actually have a discussion where it doesn't immediately devolve into a puddle of histrionics, but not always. If you are actually interested in learning what libertarians believe, there are many fine and reliable sources all over the internet. RTFM. David Bergland's Libertarianism in One Lesson is an excellent primer, but it isn't free. Liberals Libertarians, even though it hasn't been updated in years, is a good starting place for its FAQs, including one from open source maven Eric Raymond: http://www.impel.com/liblib/FAQs.html. Take the world's smallest political quiz, tho' the site is a bit cluttered: http://www.theadvocates.org/index.html. If you find the female form interesting and need further persuasion to join Team Purple, Libertarian Hotties is a fun site: http://libhotties.com/. I'll, of course, plug Reason magazine too. http://www.reason.com. Plenty of sites out there. I'm happy to answer any actual factual inquiries about libertarianism, and I'm sure Matthew is too, but no, I won't be dragged into a pointless, partisan, bickering, political argument. If anyone actually wants to learn, rather than wallow in self-rationalizing ignorance, please do ask questions, but otherwise, don't bother with a response. -Original Message- To me the cutting tax (ad nauseum...), small hands off government, free trade concepts are just me me me first types trying to make sure nobody gets in the way of them getting theirs and they have been increasingly motivated in the last 25 years or so to come strongly and selfishly forward by a trend of increasing American scarcity and diminishing prospects. I wouldn't want to be standing in line for the lifeboats on a sinking ship with any of these types around. That they argue that such policy is best for all of us is just superficial and insincere BS propaganda ... a slim cover for an otherwise socially unacceptable self serving philosophy. I'm convinced that by nature they subjectively don't really give a functional damn about the good of the whole so debating the economic and governance points with them makes about as much sense as trying to talk a wolf out of eating meat. If the last decade didn't prove out the bankruptcy of their theories of governance, I don't know what ever will. But I do learn a lot from other types in discussing such matters so I guess our string is worthwhile. Betty. for one... you are a treasure trove of information and reason! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Well this can be said in both directions, I don't see many of my liberal friends who populate the Kos and MM and Huffington post spending much time at conservative blogs...these blogs are just lying liars who lie. Very open minded. Generally speaking most people gavitate towards views they already hold, it's disconcerting to spend time challanging ones own views, this is a human trait, not a left or right wing one. On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 7:47 AM, Jordan jor17...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you Chris, Unless a person is actually broadminded, curious, or both, they won't look at a site like MM and see for them selves what we are talking about. If they are not broadminded or curious they'll resort to knee jerk responses and never look or understand, no matter how many times you tell them. By the way, there's a new article on Kos documenting how the right manipulates the media and scares the public in just the way we are talking about here. http://tinyurl.com/ahv9vz * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Matthew Taylor wrote: I have not seen MM's take on Obama's support of infaticide, but it is real. I have read the original bill. I have read the final bill after it was modified to meet Obama's and other's objections. At the end of the day it was legal in Illinois for living infants to be allowed to die with no medical or pallitive assistance and that was a position Obama preferred as a matter of law. In what way is that not support for at least passive Infanticide? It matters not at all to the question of O's views that some R's also supported it. Obama and other opponents said the bills posed a threat to abortion rights and were unnecessary because, they said, Illinois law already prohibited the conduct that these bills purported to address. Read something other than right wing smear sites. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
mike wrote: Well this can be said in both directions, I don't see many of my liberal friends who populate the Kos and MM and Huffington post spending much time at conservative blogs...these blogs are just lying liars who lie. Very open minded. Generally speaking most people gavitate towards views they already hold, it's disconcerting to spend time challanging ones own views, this is a human trait, not a left or right wing one. On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 7:47 AM, Jordan jor17...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you Chris, Unless a person is actually broadminded, curious, or both, they won't look at a site like MM and see for them selves what we are talking about. If they are not broadminded or curious they'll resort to knee jerk responses and never look or understand, no matter how many times you tell them. By the way, there's a new article on Kos documenting how the right manipulates the media and scares the public in just the way we are talking about here. http://tinyurl.com/ahv9vz Perhaps you missed the post below. Try actually going to and reading left and right sites and see if and how they back up what they say. Then decide who is more legitimate. The way things work on the right blogosphere, some radical winger will say something twisted or half true or just fabricated. Then 3 other right wing sites will repeat the lie and site each other as sources. Then this lie will appear in the mainstream press as if it were an established fact. Check former conservative David Brock's web site Media Matters to see occurrences of this and lots of other shenanigans that are going on. The legendary example is Chalabi and the White House Iraq group telling Judy Miller that there were WMDs, she puts a story about it in the NY Times, and Chaney sites it as fact. Rush Limbaugh, Drudge, and Fox News do this all the time. It's called the echo chamber. If you do any reading at these places, try to check their sources down to verifiable research, studies, or reports. If you read on the left blogosphere, Media Matters, TPM Muckraker, and Huffington Post you'll typically see links to legitimate researched reports. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Why Apple Will Prevail
Tony, Tony, Tony, I have tried to ignore your useless rants, but this one caught me. If you don't understand how going from 8% to 10% is a 25% increase, I am even sadder. I thought you had some small amount of technical knowledge. This is basic elementary school stuff. The market is divided into 100 shares, each 1% of the total. Stevie started with 8 of them, and now has 10 of them. What was the percentage increase in Stevie's market share? On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 7:39 PM, Tony B ton...@gmail.com wrote: Ah. So a 2% increase in share is a 25% increase in your fantasy world? On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: So you are bad at math too? 8 -- 10 is a 25% increase. 2 is 25% of 8. 8 + 2 = 10. -- John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=34091576500ref=mf * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Jeff Wright wrote: libertarians There are many fine elements to the libertarian point of view. They are also the party of I've got mine, screw you way of thinking. That is not what this country should be about and it would be disastrous in our current economic situation. Maybe you've forgotten how this topic started: I've mentioned before, the common knowledge that the people in countries there the taxes are high tend to feel more satisfied with life. So I dug up an article and a study with charts and graphs that show this. One talks about measures of well being, and is a pdf from Deutche Bank: http://www.dbresearch.com/PROD/DBR_INTERNET_EN-PROD/PROD00202587.pdf The other is an article from MSN Money that lists tax burdens of industrialized countries. (I know, it might be another Microsoft plot) http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/P148855.asp * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Sorry Chris but you are wrong on this one, MM is a left wing/progressive site, it does NOT monitor all news, only what it considers as 'right wing' disinformation. Mike, of course it is a left wing site. It does not pretend to be anything else. That does not, however, make it a *smear* site, which is what I was complaining about. Everything they say is scrupulously documented. Stating facts is not smearing. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
What makes you think that libertarians aren't generous? The difference is that they are generous with their own money. Liberals are generous with other peoples money. Jordan wrote: Jeff Wright wrote: libertarians There are many fine elements to the libertarian point of view. They are also the party of I've got mine, screw you way of thinking. That is not what this country should be about and it would be disastrous in our current economic situation. Maybe you've forgotten how this topic started: I've mentioned before, the common knowledge that the people in countries there the taxes are high tend to feel more satisfied with life. So I dug up an article and a study with charts and graphs that show this. One talks about measures of well being, and is a pdf from Deutche Bank: http://www.dbresearch.com/PROD/DBR_INTERNET_EN-PROD/PROD00202587.pdf The other is an article from MSN Money that lists tax burdens of industrialized countries. (I know, it might be another Microsoft plot) http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/P148855.asp * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
I am corrrected, I took your statement about MM documenting everything as meaning they document both the right and left disinformation. They take no pains at all to check left wing disinformation. On 2/12/09, Chris Dunford ch...@covesoftware.com wrote: Sorry Chris but you are wrong on this one, MM is a left wing/progressive site, it does NOT monitor all news, only what it considers as 'right wing' disinformation. Mike, of course it is a left wing site. It does not pretend to be anything else. That does not, however, make it a *smear* site, which is what I was complaining about. Everything they say is scrupulously documented. Stating facts is not smearing. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- Make sure you support your local CarbonONset programs! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Actually one of the time honored smear tactics is to stick to the facts, meticulously, but SELECTIVELY reported, and devoid of important context. In my experience both the left and right excel at this, of late the left more consistently. Matthew On Feb 12, 2009, at 11:56 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: Sorry Chris but you are wrong on this one, MM is a left wing/progressive site, it does NOT monitor all news, only what it considers as 'right wing' disinformation. Mike, of course it is a left wing site. It does not pretend to be anything else. That does not, however, make it a *smear* site, which is what I was complaining about. Everything they say is scrupulously documented. Stating facts is not smearing. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Jeff; One of the consistent trends of our recent political history is that the broadly conservative and libertarian thinks the left is badly misguided but educable, while the left thinks conservatives and libertarians are evil and selfish. On Feb 12, 2009, at 12:06 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: If you just want to be a political bigot and jawbone about how those people are just shiftless and no good, good for target practice but not much else, then have a nice day. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Dem goes after net neutrality
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/11/feinstein_stimulus_amendment/?ref=most I had hoped, apparently in vain, that with guys like Ted Stevens being caught and the Dems being in power that the big money from cable/media interests would go unheard from significant members of congress. Looks like the dems are just as willing to be beholden to comcast morons as anyone else. And of course it's 'all for the children'. So much for hope. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Actually one of the time honored smear tactics is to stick to the facts, meticulously, but SELECTIVELY reported, and devoid of important context. In my experience both the left and right excel at this, of late the left more consistently. It doesn't sound like you've spent much quality time at the MM site. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
At the end of the day it was legal in Illinois for living infants to be allowed to die with no medical or pallitive assistance See, this is wrong. I guess you are saying this because the final bill did not contain language making this practice illegal. You're right; it did not. But neither did it have any language making drunk driving, embezzlement, or kidnapping illegal--does that make them legal? Of course not. The fact is, this practice was -already- illegal; it is homicide according to existing Illinois law. So, the statement that it's legal is just plain wrong. In what way is that not support for at least passive Infanticide? Well, in the way that it is not support for infanticide at all. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
I am corrrected, I took your statement about MM documenting everything as meaning they document both the right and left disinformation. They take no pains at all to check left wing disinformation. No, they don't, but why should they? That's like saying that firefighters never check for embezzlement schemes at the local bank. It's true that they don't; but it's also not their job. MM's stated purpose is to expose conservative media misinformation. There are plenty of others who cover both sides. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Well this can be said in both directions, I don't see many of my liberal friends who populate the Kos and MM and Huffington post spending much time at conservative blogs...these blogs are just lying liars who lie. Very open minded. Generally speaking most people gavitate towards views they already hold, it's disconcerting to spend time challanging ones own views, this is a human trait, not a left or right wing one. No. There's an excess of political opinion, with roadblocks to finding accurate objective information. How many times do you seek something in a search engine and find the top results are not for data, but for opinion? Blogs may be entertaining, but you can do better when you have facts and can form your own opinions instead of bloggers yelling from all sides. There are plenty of good factual news sources across the spectrum. I subscribe to the Financial Times of London because it has detailed news that I rarely see in any US-based media. I read the Wall Street Journal. FT has an interesting cross-section of writers on the editorial pages, but it's generally quite conservative [small 'c']. WSJ has excellent news reporters, but the editorial page, especially since Alexander Cockburn's column ended, continues to decline into the depths of greed. I also read/subscribe to The Economist, The Atlantic Monthly, Time, Newsweek, Wired, Conde Nast Traveler, Make, and anything I can get my hands on in the library. My main concern is the media consolidation by large corporations, the near death of local media, and the fractured nature of news on the Internet. I generally gravitate to the more liberal sources because they first provide news with facts, and then opinions. My friend keeps sending me links to articles at TownHall.com and similar sites, and I see a lot of opinion but with a dearth of news/facts/links. I want news and information. I can decide which is useful to me, and can decide what makes sense for me, only when I can get facts. We need news organizations that we can trust to give accurate news, then we supply the opinions ourselves. However, it helps to read/hear/see many sides. Can't do that with radio most of the time, and television isn't much better. We need a path to all points of view on the Internet, without being hindered by corporate owners, or broadband providers that limit access to information by price or by censorship. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
One of the consistent trends of our recent political history is that the broadly conservative and libertarian thinks the left is badly misguided but educable, while the left thinks conservatives and libertarians are evil and selfish. IME, what most non-libertarians seem to think is that libertarians are born as libertarians. From my own observations, most people start out as liberals and a good many stay that way for the rest of their life, never re-evaluating their beliefs. Some do, and turn into conservatives and the truly reformed turn into libertarians. I think that this is where the above dynamic comes from. Throughout my youth and well into college, I was a solid Kennedy Democrat. I barely missed voting in 1980 and would have voted for Anderson; I never even heard of Ed Clark. Later on, I worked with hard-line conservatives for years (doing their IT). So, I'm very familiar with the arguments from both the left and right. A former list member (old listers may remember JB) is the one who turned me onto libertarianism many years ago (and after years of arguments) when we worked together. This is to say that I've re-evaluated my beliefs many times over the years. When I started having doubts about the correctness of libertarianism, I would look at what the 2 dominant political powers were doing and my admittedly non-conformist beliefs were quickly reaffirmed. That someone would start as a libertarian first and then morph into either a liberal or conservative, well, that person is the proverbial unicorn. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
It is not illegal at the present time is the problem. The bill was in part an attempt to make it illegal, as the practice was ongoing in Illinois hospitals. Can you point to a single case of prosecution that would indicate the state thought it to be illegal? On Feb 12, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: At the end of the day it was legal in Illinois for living infants to be allowed to die with no medical or palliative assistance See, this is wrong. I guess you are saying this because the final bill did not contain language making this practice illegal. You're right; it did not. But neither did it have any language making drunk driving, embezzlement, or kidnapping illegal--does that make them legal? Of course not. The fact is, this practice was -already- illegal; it is homicide according to existing Illinois law. So, the statement that it's legal is just plain wrong. In what way is that not support for at least passive Infanticide? Well, in the way that it is not support for infanticide at all. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
It does sound as if time spent there is quality time. That is besides the point was making though. It is possible to convey misinformation without uttering a single thing that is not true. Matthew On Feb 12, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: Actually one of the time honored smear tactics is to stick to the facts, meticulously, but SELECTIVELY reported, and devoid of important context. In my experience both the left and right excel at this, of late the left more consistently. It doesn't sound like you've spent much quality time at the MM site. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
Not clear that Huffington is liberal or Liberal. Read all her works. Eschew Obfuscation This is a reply from: Roy A. Ackerman, Ph.D., E.A. Financial, Managerial, and Technical Services for the Professional, Non-Profit, and the Entrepreneurial Organization 703.548.1343 voice 703.783.1340 fax From thinking to doing, from sales to profits, from tax to investments- we are YOUR adjuvancy -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com] On Behalf Of mike Sent: 02/12/2009 10:11 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life] Well this can be said in both directions, I don't see many of my liberal friends who populate the Kos and MM and Huffington post spending much time at conservative blogs...these blogs are just lying liars who lie. Very open minded. Generally speaking most people gavitate towards views they already hold, it's disconcerting to spend time challanging ones own views, this is a human trait, not a left or right wing one. On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 7:47 AM, Jordan jor17...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you Chris, Unless a person is actually broadminded, curious, or both, they won't look at a site like MM and see for them selves what we are talking about. If they are not broadminded or curious they'll resort to knee jerk responses and never look or understand, no matter how many times you tell them. By the way, there's a new article on Kos documenting how the right manipulates the media and scares the public in just the way we are talking about here. http://tinyurl.com/ahv9vz * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
I do not know which conservatives you have in mind, but once you are done with William Buckley, who unfortunately is no longer around to keep Conservatism honest and clean, the fold is mostly histrionic beyond all pale (starting with the current darling- Hannity, Palin, and Coulter). Amazing how when you inject invective and hyperbole, it's acceptable. When others use the same terminology, it's offensive. Eschew Obfuscation This is a reply from: Roy A. Ackerman, Ph.D., E.A. Financial, Managerial, and Technical Services for the Professional, Non-Profit, and the Entrepreneurial Organization 703.548.1343 voice 703.783.1340 fax From thinking to doing, from sales to profits, from tax to investments- we are YOUR adjuvancy -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Wright Sent: 02/12/2009 9:58 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life] I've stayed out of this thread until now, because over the years I have learned the utter futility in having political discussions with hardcore liberals. It's simply not worth it. Conservatives sometimes have a somewhat better grip on reality and can actually have a discussion where it doesn't immediately devolve into a puddle of histrionics, but not always. If you are actually interested in learning what libertarians believe, there are many fine and reliable sources all over the internet. RTFM. David Bergland's Libertarianism in One Lesson is an excellent primer, but it isn't free. Liberals Libertarians, even though it hasn't been updated in years, is a good starting place for its FAQs, including one from open source maven Eric Raymond: http://www.impel.com/liblib/FAQs.html. Take the world's smallest political quiz, tho' the site is a bit cluttered: http://www.theadvocates.org/index.html. If you find the female form interesting and need further persuasion to join Team Purple, Libertarian Hotties is a fun site: http://libhotties.com/. I'll, of course, plug Reason magazine too. http://www.reason.com. Plenty of sites out there. I'm happy to answer any actual factual inquiries about libertarianism, and I'm sure Matthew is too, but no, I won't be dragged into a pointless, partisan, bickering, political argument. If anyone actually wants to learn, rather than wallow in self-rationalizing ignorance, please do ask questions, but otherwise, don't bother with a response. -Original Message- To me the cutting tax (ad nauseum...), small hands off government, free trade concepts are just me me me first types trying to make sure nobody gets in the way of them getting theirs and they have been increasingly motivated in the last 25 years or so to come strongly and selfishly forward by a trend of increasing American scarcity and diminishing prospects. I wouldn't want to be standing in line for the lifeboats on a sinking ship with any of these types around. That they argue that such policy is best for all of us is just superficial and insincere BS propaganda ... a slim cover for an otherwise socially unacceptable self serving philosophy. I'm convinced that by nature they subjectively don't really give a functional damn about the good of the whole so debating the economic and governance points with them makes about as much sense as trying to talk a wolf out of eating meat. If the last decade didn't prove out the bankruptcy of their theories of governance, I don't know what ever will. But I do learn a lot from other types in discussing such matters so I guess our string is worthwhile. Betty. for one... you are a treasure trove of information and reason! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
It is not illegal at the present time is the problem. No, it is homicide. Homicide is illegal. The bill was in part an attempt to make it illegal, as the practice was ongoing in Illinois hospitals. This is an overstatement of Homeric proportion. There was an allegation that this occurred at one hospital. Both the state Attorney General's office and the Illinois Department of Public Health investigated; neither found any evidence for it. Q: Why would the IDPH and the AG investigate if it wasn't illegal? A: They wouldn't. When asked by the Chicago Tribune why there was an investigation, an IDPH spokesman said, Because what they were alleging were violations of existing law. Can you point to a single case of prosecution that would indicate the state thought it to be illegal? No, because in order for there to be a prosecution, there would have to have been an occurrence of this. No one has found any evidence that there has been. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
I do not know which conservatives you have in mind, but once you are done with William Buckley, who unfortunately is no longer around to keep Conservatism honest and clean, the fold is mostly histrionic beyond all pale (starting with the current darling- Hannity, Palin, and Coulter). I'm not talking about public polemicists. I was referring to personal experience with everyday people. But yeah, I miss Bill. If you're going to use who appears on tee-vee as the standard on either Team Red or Blue, then you're pretty much screwed. I stopped watching broadcast news for some of the reasons you mention. Amazing how when you inject invective and hyperbole, it's acceptable. When others use the same terminology, it's offensive. Very true, and also very normal. I'll repost my rules of partisanship: - Your side is brilliant, honest, forthright, righteous, of the highest ethics and above reproach. - The other side is evil, stupid and/or ignorant, dishonest, sleazy and always up to something no good. - And, above all, you are never a partisan, just the other guy. - Most importantly though, if you don't believe in the same thing, you're the other guy from the other side. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Charter to file for bankruptcy
This doesn't directly affect me, but I expect it will affect some of you: http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/charter-file-bankruptcy-april-1/story.aspx?guid=%7B14171E23-A3D2-4740-ADDE-024BB74F80D6%7Ddist=msr_2 Cable operator Charter Communications, weighed down by huge debt for many years, said Thursday that it will file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection by April 1 under the terms of an agreement with some of its creditors. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Why Apple Will Prevail
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 7:39 PM, Tony B ton...@gmail.com wrote: Ah. So a 2% increase in share is a 25% increase in your fantasy world? Okay. I can _almost_ accept that twisted math, except if the whole pie is 10 instead of 100, then 2 is only 20% of it, not 25%. That 2 is 1/4 of 8 means nothing, because you cannot define the whole market as being 8 percent. He defined Apples share of the market as 8% of the whole market increasing to 10% of the whole market which is a 25% increase in Apples share of the whole market. Simpler example: Steve and John have ten dollars between them. John has $1 and Steve has $9.00 in quarters in his pocket for laundry. Steve drops a quarter and John picks it up. John now has $1.25 which is a 25% increase in his available cash and 12.5% of all the cash. Steve has 97.2% of what he had and 88.75% of the cash. On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: No, that part is pure fantasy. Talk about misinterpreting! So you are bad at math too? 8 -- 10 is a 25% increase. 2 is 25% of 8. 8 + 2 = 10. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Charter to file for bankruptcy
Yeah our only option as a cable company. Explains a lot on why their service is less than piss poor. Stewart At 04:47 PM 2/12/2009, you wrote: This doesn't directly affect me, but I expect it will affect some of you: http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/charter-file-bankruptcy-april-1/story.aspx?guid=%7B14171E23-A3D2-4740-ADDE-024BB74F80D6%7Ddist=msr_2 Cable operator Charter Communications, weighed down by huge debt for many years, said Thursday that it will file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection by April 1 under the terms of an agreement with some of its creditors. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Dem goes after net neutrality
The good news is that this provision has been defeated (for now). I had hoped, apparently in vain, that with guys like Ted Stevens being caught and the Dems being in power that the big money from cable/media interests would go unheard from significant members of congress. Looks like the dems are just as willing to be beholden to comcast morons as anyone else. And of course it's 'all for the children'. So much for hope. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] need to find program to convert mpg file to still images
I have a camera that can take both JPEG's and short movies. I now have a two-second video file, in mpg format, and I would like to get some of the individual images out of this file. How can I do that? Could anyone recommend a program that would change the video file into several jpegs? I know programs like this must exist ... which one would you recommend? I am using Windows XP Home on a computer that was built about four years ago and still works fine. Pentium 4, 2 .8 Ghz, two Gb RAM. Many thanks, Elaine * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
-- Original message from Matthew Taylor taylorsmatt...@gmail.com: -- On Feb 11, 2009, at 2:33 PM, db wrote: To me the cutting tax (ad nauseum...), small hands off government, free trade concepts are just me me me first types trying to make sure nobody gets in the way of them getting theirs And you determine this how? and they have been increasingly motivated in the last 25 years or so to come strongly and selfishly forward by a trend of increasing American scarcity and diminishing prospects. What scarcity? What is America running out of in your view? In what way are our prospects diminished? Most libertarians believe that if there is a scarcity, it represents a market opportunity, and believe that with the right choices made our prospects look good indeed. I wouldn't want to be standing in line for the lifeboats on a sinking ship with any of these types around. Amazing how many military who might be coming to your rescue are of a more conservative or libertarian bent though. I think you'll find rank and file military donations to Ron Paul, Obama and the Dems in general dwarfed those to McCain and the Repubs. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/mccain-edges-obama-with-military-donors/ That they argue that such policy is best for all of us is just superficial and insincere BS propaganda You have some secret inside source that tells you that libertarians do no believe what they are saying? ... a slim cover for an otherwise socially unacceptable self serving philosophy. Self reliance within a greater community, a long standing American tradition, is now socially unacceptable? I'm convinced that by nature they subjectively don't really give a functional damn about the good of the whole By nature? So you are saying there is a libertarian gene? so debating the economic and governance points with them makes about as much sense as trying to talk a wolf out of eating meat. Or say vegetarians who feed their dogs and cats vegetable diets? If the last decade didn't prove out the bankruptcy of their theories of governance, I don't know what ever will. The spendthrift Republican congress of 2001 - 2006 were hardly an exemplar of libertarian fiscal policy. But I do learn a lot from other types in discussing such matters so I guess our string is worthwhile. Other types. Do you mean types you already agree with? I find I learn more from being challenged with demonstrable reason backed up by facts. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Redefining history [was: Taxes and good life]
I've concluded after reading through this thread that you may be (and there are plenty of contenders) the winner of the Legend in His Own Mind award. I congratulate you. -- Original message from Jeff Wright jswri...@gmail.com: -- One of the consistent trends of our recent political history is that the broadly conservative and libertarian thinks the left is badly misguided but educable, while the left thinks conservatives and libertarians are evil and selfish. IME, what most non-libertarians seem to think is that libertarians are born as libertarians. From my own observations, most people start out as liberals and a good many stay that way for the rest of their life, never re-evaluating their beliefs. Some do, and turn into conservatives and the truly reformed turn into libertarians. I think that this is where the above dynamic comes from. Throughout my youth and well into college, I was a solid Kennedy Democrat. I barely missed voting in 1980 and would have voted for Anderson; I never even heard of Ed Clark. Later on, I worked with hard-line conservatives for years (doing their IT). So, I'm very familiar with the arguments from both the left and right. A former list member (old listers may remember JB) is the one who turned me onto libertarianism many years ago (and after years of arguments) when we worked together. This is to say that I've re-evaluated my beliefs many times over the years. When I started having doubts about the correctness of libertarianism, I would look at what the 2 dominant political powers were doing and my admittedly non-conformist beliefs were quickly reaffirmed. That someone would start as a libertarian first and then morph into either a liberal or conservative, well, that person is the proverbial unicorn. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] need to find program to convert mpg file to still images
Use Windows Movie Maker. ToolsTake Picture From Preview. You may find the Timeline mode easier for this, but be sure to set ToolsPreview Size to Large first. Disclaimer: I'm in Vista right now, so this may be a different version of WMM. If you can't figure it out, I can dig up a WinXP comp somewhere. On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Elaine Zablocki elainezablo...@ezab.net wrote: I have a camera that can take both JPEG's and short movies. I now have a two-second video file, in mpg format, and I would like to get some of the individual images out of this file. How can I do that? Could anyone recommend a program that would change the video file into several jpegs? I know programs like this must exist ... which one would you recommend? I am using Windows XP Home on a computer that was built about four years ago and still works fine. Pentium 4, 2 .8 Ghz, two Gb RAM. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
