[CGUYS] Fwd: [Slashdot] TomTom Settles With Microsoft
>++ >| TomTom Settles With Microsoft | >| from the caves-not-just-for-bears dept. | >| posted by ScuttleMonkey on Monday March 30, @16:48 (Microsoft) | >| http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/30/1853219 | >++ > >Surrounded writes "It appears TomTom bowed to the pressure and [0]settled >with Microsoft over the recent patent infringement claims from the >Redmond software giant. In the agreement, TomTom will pay Microsoft for >coverage under the eight car navigation and file management systems >patents in the Microsoft case. Also as part of the agreement, Microsoft >receives coverage under the four patents included in the TomTom >counter-suit. TomTom also has to remove functionality related to two file >management system patents (the 'FAT LFN patents')." > >Discuss this story at: >http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=09/03/30/1853219 > >Links: >0. > http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/03/microsoft-and-tomtom-settle-patent-dispute.ars * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Tom, Get with the program! the 20" iMac is much more practical... Rocky > Date:Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:27:56 -0400 > From:Tom Piwowar > Subject: Re: Laptop Hunters > > >(No one tell Tom that Apple sells a laptop that is only > 1.2 pounds lighter) > > I don't comsider that a laptop. It is actually a > portable video > production studio. That is what it is bought for. That is > why it costs > what it costs. It competes with alternatives selling > upwards of $100,000. > That Mac is a real bargain. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop
I like their mice. Tom Piwowar wrote: Can you name something MS makes that is considered best quality in its category? I can't think of anything. As I suspected. The answer is no. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> Xbox lost out to Wii. Well, now this is a really interesting conclusion. We (wii?) have both, and there is no comparison. Except for the wiimotes, which really are pretty cool, Xbox is superior in *every* respect. As in blows it away. Side-by-side with the Xbox's HD graphics, the Wii looks like a Commodore 64. The gameplay is smoother and more responsive, and there's no comparison in the sound. This is not me, certified MS lapdog, speaking; it's my kids, who could care less about who made the boxes. The Wii sits untouched. I don't even know if it still works; nobody cares. You certainly can't be talking about features/specs, because, if you were, I'd have to assume that you have no idea WTF you're talking about. Full details at http://tinyurl.com/23okra, but here are a few goodies (and believe me, this is just the tip of the iceberg): Xbox Wii --- CPU 3.2 GHz PowerPC w/3 729MHz IBM Broadway dual-threaded cores Clock500Mhz 243Mhz System RAM 512MB64MB Video RAM512MB24MB Best video res 1080p480p Video bandwidth 21.6 GB/sec 3.9 GB/sec HDMI Yep Nope (obviously) Storage Up to 120GB HD 512MB flash Digital audioDolby 5.1Nope Plays DVDs Yep Nope Well, you get the idea. So, the only way you could *possibly* say that Xbox "lost out" to Wii is in terms of sales. Wii does sell more. Of course, it is cheaper. So, let's summarize. Two companies produce machines with the same basic function. One box has superior specs, better reviews, and higher customer satisfaction ratings. The other one is cheaper and sells more. Which machine does Tom think is the winner? Hey, it's the one that sells more! Hmmm. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] 60 Minutes story on deadly computer virus
Perhaps nothing happening would be the worst sign at all. One big silent bot net take over. Yeah, I'm running the scans anyway. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
> > > Seriously, this is funnier than Monty Python's old Ministry of > > > Arguments > > > sketch. > > > > No, it isn't! > > > Yes, it is. Oh look, this isn't an argument. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] 60 Minutes story on deadly computer virus
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: > My prediction is that after all this hype, nothing significant will happen. > > Either that or millions of desktop screens will turn upside down. > Perhaps nothing happening would be the worst sign at all. One big silent bot net take over. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 06:51:52 -0400, Chris Dunford wrote: >> I have this image of Tom sitting at home being deliberately obtuse, >> seeing how much shit he can stir up on this list. It's really not worth >> it to play his games. > >I know. It has occurred to me more than once that if this were anyplace >else, the dreaded "tr*ll" word would have come up long ago. It's hard to Ah yes. The T word. It's been so long that I've been on a list that had the problem I forgot all about it. >come up with a different explanation for some of the more egregious items >(such as, iMac is suitable for use on an airplane, and only weightlifters >are strong enough to carry an HP laptop). Well, Chris mightn't want to come right out and say it, but frak it, I will: Tom acts like a troll sometimes. Unfortunately, it's his list, so he's not likely to reign in the offender, or boot him off. -- R:\katan Tea. . .Earl Grey. . .Hot * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
> > Seriously, this is funnier than Monty Python's old Ministry of > > Arguments > > sketch. > > No, it isn't! > Yes, it is. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] CD and DVD - R or + R for Leopard iMac ?
>Is CD and DVD - R or + R media advantageous for burning data on a new >iMac? One plays better on DVD players. I don't remember which. Try Wikipedia. I think I saw the answer there. DVD-R is the native format for video DVDs. I can burn the -R and +R on my computers, but I've found that the -R disks can be read by more players/readers. YMMV. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] 60 Minutes story on deadly computer virus
My prediction is that after all this hype, nothing significant will happen. Either that or millions of desktop screens will turn upside down. > -Original Message- > I heard speculation that the virus payload may be up for auction and > all > this publicity could drive up the prices. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop
Not best but in the top 5. Their keyboards and mice are one of only two brands I will buy. Logitech is the other one. Stewart At 08:52 PM 3/31/2009, you wrote: >Can you name something MS makes that is considered best quality in its >category? I can't think of anything. As I suspected. The answer is no. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop
>Can you name something MS makes that is considered best quality in its >category? I can't think of anything. As I suspected. The answer is no. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] 60 Minutes story on deadly computer virus
I heard speculation that the virus payload may be up for auction and all this publicity could drive up the prices. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:06 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: > > Seriously, this is funnier than Monty Python's old Ministry of > > Arguments > > sketch. > > No, it isn't! > > If only this thread would pine for the fjords. > True story The Apple Genius told me that my Wife's 2cnd Generation Nano was 'pining for the fjords' last friday night. Yes he used those terms and no I did not off a getting hit in the head lesson. We had a choice for $99 direct swap for a second generation iPod nano or we could get 15% off a new fourth generation iPod using the dead parrot as a trade in. We traded unfortunately none of our old speaker docks will work as a charging station. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] 60 Minutes story on deadly computer virus
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:30 PM, mike wrote: > well if apple made heavier laptops i would have bought one... Over 90% of the defendants who appear on the "Judge Judy Show" are Windows users! I'll be checking the stats for the "Jerry Springer Show" shortly. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] FW: How secure is Verizon central if I put my forma
>I have been thinking about how much information about myself to >Put on the internet, I wanted know if any who as put their resume >Online had any problems, with ID thieves or any problems. I have had stuff about me up on the Internet for close to 20 years. The only things I am careful to not post is email addresses and SSNs. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] 60 Minutes story on deadly computer virus
well if apple made heavier laptops i would have bought one... On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > >well, no; just that it has the potential to wreck a lot of harm, like > steal > >your personal info. from computer. > > Not really. If you cared about this kind of stuff you would not be using > a PC. > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] 60 Minutes story on deadly computer virus
>well, no; just that it has the potential to wreck a lot of harm, like steal >your personal info. from computer. Not really. If you cared about this kind of stuff you would not be using a PC. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] 60 Minutes story on deadly computer virus
Thanks, Just saw something on local news, with advice like this. Even if computer is patched and updated couldn't this virus clog the internet by spamming lots of computers? This was suggested on the local news show as a potential problem. Randall On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: > > Anyone see the 60 Minutes piece Sunday on the deadly > > computer virus sweeping the world? The story suggested > > that there is some reason to think it might be activated > > in millions of computers by its creator on April 1 to do > > harm or create mischief. Any thoughts about how serious > > this might be and what we should be doing about it, if > > anything? Keep computers turned off tomorrow (April 1)? > > This short answer comes from F-Secure: > > Q: I heard something really bad is going to happen on the Internet on April > 1st! Will it? > A: No, not really. > > The longer answer is, if your Windows is even moderately up-to-date in > terms > of patches, you're fine. The vulnerability was patched last October > (MS08-67). You can check your Windows Update history to be sure. > > If you really want to get all warm & fuzzy, run Windows Update, and then > run > one of the free checkers. There are lots of them, listed here: > > http://tinyurl.com/cg9loc > > If that's busy, here's are a couple of them: > > http://tinyurl.com/8nbwux (Symantec) > http://tinyurl.com/65a2um (F-Secure) > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] 60 Minutes story on deadly computer virus
well, no; just that it has the potential to wreck a lot of harm, like steal your personal info. from computer. Randall On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 5:23 PM, mike wrote: > Deadly? They said that? > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Ranbo wrote: > > > Anyone see the 60 Minutes piece Sunday on the deadly computer virus > > sweeping > > the world? The story suggested that there is some reason to think it > might > > be activated in millions of computers by its creator on April 1 to do > harm > > or create mischief. Any thoughts about how serious this might be and > what > > we should be doing about it, if anything? Keep computers turned off > > tomorrow (April 1)? > > > > Why do I think Tom or maybe others are going to say that if you have a > Mac, > > there is nothing to worry about from this thing? :) > > > > Randall > > > > > > * > > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > > * > > > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] PC to Mac printing
>I think I've checked all the appropriate boxes, allowed all the >appropriate permissions, I've tried Bonjour, I've turned off both >firewalls. And yet I still can't print from my PC to my Mac's printer. >I've googled this and read at least 50 articles and nothing seems to >work. Is it possible to print from a PC to a Mac wirelessly (Airport >Extreme N)? I can print the other way (Mac to PC) without difficulty. >Please help. This is often such a mess to configure that I usually just spend the $30 for a hardware print server or connect through a router or WiFi AP that has a printer port. However, the R800 is a fine art photo printer that is intended to work directly connected to a computer. The driver has many options and these are unlikely to be accessible over a network. I don't see that Epson provides a networkable software print driver for the R800. So I expect you would be losing capability if you did this. Also note that the R800 is not intended for high volume printing so probably won't last long in a networked arrangement. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] 60 Minutes story on deadly computer virus
Actually it's not with you if you just update. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 2:19 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > >Why do I think Tom or maybe others are going to say that if you have a > Mac, > >there is nothing to worry about from this thing? :) > > Because it is true? > > This is the good old downadup with us again. > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] 60 Minutes story on deadly computer virus
>Why do I think Tom or maybe others are going to say that if you have a Mac, >there is nothing to worry about from this thing? :) Because it is true? This is the good old downadup with us again. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] 60 Minutes story on deadly computer virus
Deadly? They said that? On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Ranbo wrote: > Anyone see the 60 Minutes piece Sunday on the deadly computer virus > sweeping > the world? The story suggested that there is some reason to think it might > be activated in millions of computers by its creator on April 1 to do harm > or create mischief. Any thoughts about how serious this might be and what > we should be doing about it, if anything? Keep computers turned off > tomorrow (April 1)? > > Why do I think Tom or maybe others are going to say that if you have a Mac, > there is nothing to worry about from this thing? :) > > Randall > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] 60 Minutes story on deadly computer virus
> Anyone see the 60 Minutes piece Sunday on the deadly > computer virus sweeping the world? The story suggested > that there is some reason to think it might be activated > in millions of computers by its creator on April 1 to do > harm or create mischief. Any thoughts about how serious > this might be and what we should be doing about it, if > anything? Keep computers turned off tomorrow (April 1)? This short answer comes from F-Secure: Q: I heard something really bad is going to happen on the Internet on April 1st! Will it? A: No, not really. The longer answer is, if your Windows is even moderately up-to-date in terms of patches, you're fine. The vulnerability was patched last October (MS08-67). You can check your Windows Update history to be sure. If you really want to get all warm & fuzzy, run Windows Update, and then run one of the free checkers. There are lots of them, listed here: http://tinyurl.com/cg9loc If that's busy, here's are a couple of them: http://tinyurl.com/8nbwux (Symantec) http://tinyurl.com/65a2um (F-Secure) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] 60 Minutes story on deadly computer virus
Anyone see the 60 Minutes piece Sunday on the deadly computer virus sweeping the world? The story suggested that there is some reason to think it might be activated in millions of computers by its creator on April 1 to do harm or create mischief. Any thoughts about how serious this might be and what we should be doing about it, if anything? Keep computers turned off tomorrow (April 1)? Why do I think Tom or maybe others are going to say that if you have a Mac, there is nothing to worry about from this thing? :) Randall * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
So now the macbook pro is a 100,000 dollar studio in a 2000 dollar box? You are smokin something totally wack in your house today. Now I know you send out these emails on purpose, completely left the building on this one..left the planet. You went to far now, it's clear you are doing this to egg on the fight. You kept it up awhile though, brought some of the mac glitterati with you too. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > >(No one tell Tom that Apple sells a laptop that is only 1.2 pounds > lighter) > > I don't comsider that a laptop. It is actually a portable video > production studio. That is what it is bought for. That is why it costs > what it costs. It competes with alternatives selling upwards of $100,000. > That Mac is a real bargain. > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
And you've been discussing the matter with yourself for seven emails...the mirror analogy suddenly seems even more apropos. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > >Sometimes It's like some mac users look in the mirror and reflect back at > >non mac users their own feelings. There are no WFB..they don't exist in > the > >same way MFB exist. > > You obviously have not been reading this thread. The WFBs have made some > mighty wild claims in defense of their dearly loved. > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] toast
I really don't want the therapy bills that come with a life that you lead. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > That just shows how much you have been deprived. People love their Macs, > iMacs, MacBooks, Minis, iPods, iPhones, and iTouchs. They are truly > excited by them. They love how useful thay are in their lives. They love > their style and their great engineering. Look at a MS product and your > eyes tear. > > >There seems to be a fundamental difference between most apple users and > most > >windows users. Apple users identify themselves with their computers, it > >means something to them, they get tshirts with apple logos, they put apple > >stickers on their cars. You don't find many windows users with stickers > on > >their cars. Why? Is it because they are ashamed about windows? Or could > >it be something different? > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>(No one tell Tom that Apple sells a laptop that is only 1.2 pounds lighter) I don't comsider that a laptop. It is actually a portable video production studio. That is what it is bought for. That is why it costs what it costs. It competes with alternatives selling upwards of $100,000. That Mac is a real bargain. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] toast
That just shows how much you have been deprived. People love their Macs, iMacs, MacBooks, Minis, iPods, iPhones, and iTouchs. They are truly excited by them. They love how useful thay are in their lives. They love their style and their great engineering. Look at a MS product and your eyes tear. >There seems to be a fundamental difference between most apple users and most >windows users. Apple users identify themselves with their computers, it >means something to them, they get tshirts with apple logos, they put apple >stickers on their cars. You don't find many windows users with stickers on >their cars. Why? Is it because they are ashamed about windows? Or could >it be something different? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Right, but your solution to the gal who wanted a laptop was an iMac which is not. Tom Piwowar wrote: Tom, read the subject line! I wrote that subject line. It belongs to me. It is the title of the commercial, not a reference to a type of computer. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] First Place? [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>I can't think of any publicly-owned company that can afford to "just sit >back and be satisfied." Can you? MS certainly has. Most obviously, they neglected InternetExplorer for years and are now playing catch up. Waiting years for Vista and then getting a flop is another. They are behind in cloud computing. Their search engine is a very distant third so they are really back in the pack with many little companies. I think much of their enterprise software is substandard. They make some nice mice, but they are not top drawer. XBox lost out to Wii. The Zune is a zune. Can you name something MS makes that is considered best quality in its category? I can't think of anything. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
> >Does any of this affect the truthiness of its basic point, that if you > need > >a laptop with a decent size screen and you have only a thousand bucks, > >you're out of luck with Apple because they don't make one? Isn't that > >factually accurate? > > No it is nonesense. The big, bulky, heavy, blurry thing she bought is > hardly a laptop. It is the kind of purchase that ends up in the back of > the closet. Seriously, this is funnier than Monty Python's old Ministry of Arguments sketch. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] gPhone Ad [Was: Not cool enough
Useful things that are not done in real time either! WooHoo! On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > >Actually they really don't touch on macs at all. They talk about ilife > >sometimes...but mostly it's windows bad/mac good type adverts. Although > >done a lot better then MS has ever done. > > See the latest gPhone commercial. They show all these wide-eyed people > staring at the tiny screen and they hardly show the screen at all. Sharp > contrast to the iPhone ads that fill the screen completely with the > iPhone screen while the voice over describes useful things that are > happening on the screen. > > The contrast is one os selling sizzle vs selling beef (to make an old > advertising reverence). > > > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] gPhone Ad [Was: Not cool enough
>Actually they really don't touch on macs at all. They talk about ilife >sometimes...but mostly it's windows bad/mac good type adverts. Although >done a lot better then MS has ever done. See the latest gPhone commercial. They show all these wide-eyed people staring at the tiny screen and they hardly show the screen at all. Sharp contrast to the iPhone ads that fill the screen completely with the iPhone screen while the voice over describes useful things that are happening on the screen. The contrast is one os selling sizzle vs selling beef (to make an old advertising reverence). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>MS is fighting apple in the area it can...cost of hardware, Apple margins >are gigantic, other hardware manufacturers, not so much. Same reason you should go out and buy a car from a bankrupt car maker. You would not want to buy something from a healthy company that was making money and was sure to be around to provide support for many years to come. Nope. Get the cheap one and do not ask why. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>Sometimes It's like some mac users look in the mirror and reflect back at >non mac users their own feelings. There are no WFB..they don't exist in the >same way MFB exist. You obviously have not been reading this thread. The WFBs have made some mighty wild claims in defense of their dearly loved. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
I already defended you on this one. Tom is too small and frail to lift 8 pounds! It's not his fault he's built weak. (No one tell Tom that Apple sells a laptop that is only 1.2 pounds lighter) On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > >She wanted a LAPTOP!!! > > > >Why do you repeated tell her she can't have one? > > She did not buy a laptop. She bought a compact desktop that takes the > form of a laptop, but it is not a laptop computer. It is too big, bulky, > and heavy. > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Yes, that is true. What I am seeing, that is not in the ad, is the statement "_Only_ if you are on a tight budget would you want to buy hardware with an MS operating system". What I do see is "_If_ you are on a tight budget, etc" Didn't you take logic in some math course where you learned the differences between A if B, A only if B, A if and only if B? Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: Steve you are seeing something that is not in the ad. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Not true. Your problem is with the placement of the word "only". It is true that MS is advertising themselves as the _only_ alternative for people on a tight budget. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>Does any of this affect the truthiness of its basic point, that if you need >a laptop with a decent size screen and you have only a thousand bucks, >you're out of luck with Apple because they don't make one? Isn't that >factually accurate? No it is nonesense. The big, bulky, heavy, blurry thing she bought is hardly a laptop. It is the kind of purchase that ends up in the back of the closet. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>Tom, read the subject line! I wrote that subject line. It belongs to me. It is the title of the commercial, not a reference to a type of computer. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] CD and DVD - R or + R for Leopard iMac ?
>Is CD and DVD - R or + R media advantageous for burning data on a new >iMac? One plays better on DVD players. I don't remember which. Try Wikipedia. I think I saw the answer there. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: > Of course, they have ~90x more users. When I go into an Apple store > [shudder], the *cough* Geniuses all seem to be very busy with Apple > owners having problems. You are right, and most of those troubles are with iPods and iPhones, not the computers. That is the word straight from a couple of those "Geniuses." Additionally, according to the same folks, operator error, not the computer, is the main culprit when someone visits the Genius Bar. The Genius Bar is not exclusively for sick machines. They actually provide more instructional information than they do repair orders. I had a problem with a five-year old 17" Macbook that I bought second-hand. Logic board failure. Apple gave me, cost free, a brand new 17" Macbook Pro. They treated my extremely well, and I really wasn't even one of their customers in that instance. And no, I did not have to tie my long hair back into a pony tail or prove my societal status to get that deal. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>She wanted a LAPTOP!!! > >Why do you repeated tell her she can't have one? She did not buy a laptop. She bought a compact desktop that takes the form of a laptop, but it is not a laptop computer. It is too big, bulky, and heavy. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] CD and DVD - R or + R for Leopard iMac ?
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 1:11 PM, mike wrote: > I don't see any advantage, but I'm no expert. > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:57 AM, db wrote: > >> Is CD and DVD - R or + R media advantageous for burning data on a new iMac? DVD-R is compatible with a wider range of DVD equipment. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>To say that Apple is incapable of building a less expensive machine that >won't last more than "a year or two" is a sad commentary on its engineering >skills. But I don't believe this for an instant. They are perfectly capable >of doing this; they choose not to. Why that is, I couldn't tell you. Yes you could. Apple has amply stated it: they don't sell crap. And as MS has amply stated: they do sell crap. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I was never talking about the users. That sounds too much like envy / inferiority. Blech. Don't want to go there. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- I'm not talking company, I'm talking user base. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) < mark.sny...@ngc.com> wrote: > By that logic, MS would have been satisfied with their monopoly and > just relaxed at least ten years ago. > > I can't think of any publicly-owned company that can afford to "just > sit back and be satisfied." Can you? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> Few ads from MS come to my attention. So, okay Chris, does MS have > other ads out? Uh, yes? The 4-1/2 year-old girl capturing, enhancing, and emailing pictures to granny with a few clicks? Other little girls making panoramas and such? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>I need a pair of shoes that are comfortable, look nice, will wear >well, and DO NOT HURT MY FEET! Looks to me that you would not be buying a big, bulky, heavy laptop with a crappy screen either. That would hurt your back and your eyes. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] toast
The neighbors see you with one of the new centurion models with the built in guns in the forearms and they stop inviting you over to barbques..the snobs. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:14 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: > > I like toast. I have a 10 dollar toaster oven I got at a garage sale, > looks > > brand new. I could have bought a 150 dollar toaster oven at some shop > that > > did toast perfectly, but I got the 10 dollar deal down the road. > > You must have an old centurion model. The frakkin' skin jobs are the > $150 models. > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>Back at home or dorm where there is more room you can get an >even bigger monitor and an actual real keyboard with numeric keypad >for whatever the need is. The best of both worlds. Should note that the $999 MacBook will drive a 1920 x 1200 monitor via its DVI port. So you can have a compact screen on the road and a big screen at home. Also when you work with two screens they display independently, so you have even more work space. A very nice computer for not a lot of money. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] toast
If it was free, the TFB would just make fun of me. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:10 AM, John Emmerling wrote: > For free, I can get you one that toasts both sides at once! > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:57 PM, mike wrote: > > > > I like toast. I have a 10 dollar toaster oven I got at a garage sale, > > looks > > brand new. I could have bought a 150 dollar toaster oven at some shop > that > > did toast perfectly, but I got the 10 dollar deal down the road. Now I > > have > > to pay more for my cheaper toast because during mid-toasting I have to > turn > > the toast over to get proper browning on my toast. > > > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>What do they do better than Apple - both make software, but MS does not make >hardware. So why the hell would I want MS software over Apple's? They >can't seem to explain that in their marketing. Actually MS does make some hardware and they publish detailed hardware specifications for PCs that other computer makers must follow. So Dell and the like just function as a manufacturing arm for MS. They build computers to MS's specifications. Just like Apple sending specifications to Taiwan to have computers built to their specs. So MS is not all the different from Apple in this regard. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I'm not talking company, I'm talking user base. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) < mark.sny...@ngc.com> wrote: > By that logic, MS would have been satisfied with their monopoly and just > relaxed at least ten years ago. > > I can't think of any publicly-owned company that can afford to "just sit > back and be satisfied." Can you? > > Thank you, > > Mark Snyder > -Original Message- > Sometimes It's like some mac users look in the mirror and reflect back > at non mac users their own feelings. There are no WFB..they don't exist > in the same way MFB exist. The mac community was on the fighting end > for so long they are just never not fighting. It's like so many of them > have little man syndrome. The only WFB I can think of are more of an > offshoot and they are technically gamer fan bois...which annoy most > windows users too. I just wish Apple would reach some level of success > and/or market share they can just sit back and be satisfied. > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:15 AM, phartz...@gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > > > So now the WFBs are not only claiming to have the best OS, they are > > also claiming to have the best built machines upon which to run the > > OS, and all for far less money as well. That explains everything. > > > > > > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy > ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ > ** > > * > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] toast
For free, I can get you one that toasts both sides at once! On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:57 PM, mike wrote: > I like toast. I have a 10 dollar toaster oven I got at a garage sale, > looks > brand new. I could have bought a 150 dollar toaster oven at some shop that > did toast perfectly, but I got the 10 dollar deal down the road. Now I > have > to pay more for my cheaper toast because during mid-toasting I have to turn > the toast over to get proper browning on my toast. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Must be irritated horribly by all those Apple ads then. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Constance Warner wrote: > > > I'm not irritated by her personal choice; I just don't like the deceptive > rhetoric and the silly attitudes of the commercial. > > It's true, the art of the commercial is the art of partial truth and > distortion. > > --Constance Warner > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] toast
> I like toast. I have a 10 dollar toaster oven I got at a garage sale, looks > brand new. I could have bought a 150 dollar toaster oven at some shop that > did toast perfectly, but I got the 10 dollar deal down the road. You must have an old centurion model. The frakkin' skin jobs are the $150 models. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] CD and DVD - R or + R for Leopard iMac ?
I don't see any advantage, but I'm no expert. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:57 AM, db wrote: > Is CD and DVD - R or + R media advantageous for burning data on a new iMac? > > db > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
It's like a bad horror movie...just when you think it's over it comes back. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > >Well she could have a laptop running MAC OSX for under $1K. It would of > >course be a hackintosh. If she were happy with a netbook then she could > >just pull it off for under $500 including buying OSX.5. That M$ gets some > >money, Apple gets some money and MSI or dell or whoever gets some money. > > But it would not then not be big, bulky, and heavy, with poor battery > life, a crummy screen, and loaded with crapware. WFBs would not like it. > > Many MFBs think netbooks running OS X are cool, but we buy the version > with Linux so MS don't get any dough out of it. > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Actually they really don't touch on macs at all. They talk about ilife sometimes...but mostly it's windows bad/mac good type adverts. Although done a lot better then MS has ever done. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) < mark.sny...@ngc.com> wrote: > Few ads from MS come to my attention. So, okay Chris, does MS have > other ads out? > > The last long campaign I remember was the one about all the > "innovation." Before the law-suits. > > Using your logic, apple's ads would be doing the same as MS, but they > seem to strike varying topics to tout their product lines. > > Thank you, > > -Original Message- > > There's no validity to your assumption that one ad is supposed to show > all possible reasons for doing something. Here's an old Apple ad that I > picked more or less at random: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz78v4euRd0 > > Using your logic, the Apple ad is saying that only reason to buy a Mac > is that it's faster. You're sticking the word "only" where it doesn't > belong. > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
By that logic, MS would have been satisfied with their monopoly and just relaxed at least ten years ago. I can't think of any publicly-owned company that can afford to "just sit back and be satisfied." Can you? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Sometimes It's like some mac users look in the mirror and reflect back at non mac users their own feelings. There are no WFB..they don't exist in the same way MFB exist. The mac community was on the fighting end for so long they are just never not fighting. It's like so many of them have little man syndrome. The only WFB I can think of are more of an offshoot and they are technically gamer fan bois...which annoy most windows users too. I just wish Apple would reach some level of success and/or market share they can just sit back and be satisfied. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:15 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: > > > So now the WFBs are not only claiming to have the best OS, they are > also claiming to have the best built machines upon which to run the > OS, and all for far less money as well. That explains everything. > > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>The fact that budget buyers exist and are not served by >Apple is sorta the whole point, isn't it? Except that it is not true. Other than that you are just fine. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Not quite sure how I 'changed the facts'--everything I posted was factual. It's certainly true that you can get a Mac laptop for less than $1K, if you don't demand the latest fancy model, you don't want it instantly, and you're willing to do some research. It's all a matter of tradeoffs. If Lady Shopright is happy with her cheaper Windows machine, then hooray for her. Caveat emptor, and all that. It's too bad she didn't have more lead time to plan, research, and/or save. Actually, since Lady Shopright's needs [for her new computer] are hypothetical, it's hard to advise her on what she should have bought. If her needs are average [i.e. no high-end professional graphics; no scientific number-crunching; etc.] and her budget is limited, I'd advise her to buy one of the neat little netbooks and a paperback guide to Linux. The typical netbook is featherweight and comes with an office suite. I'm not irritated by her personal choice; I just don't like the deceptive rhetoric and the silly attitudes of the commercial. It's true, the art of the commercial is the art of partial truth and distortion. --Constance Warner On Mar 30, 2009, at 2:13 PM, mike wrote: Again, changing the facts won't win your argument. She got what she wanted, for the price she wanted...just because your irritated it wasn't a mac doesn't mean she didn't. On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Constance Warner wrote: You don't have to be rich to afford a Mac. But to demand the LATEST model, 17" laptop, for a Wal-Mart discount price? THAT'S unrealistic. --Constance Warner On Mar 30, 2009, at 10:39 AM, mike wrote: Constance, when you go shopping are you saying you have ZERO criteria? NONE? You must be unbelievably rich. For the rest of us who have normal jobs, make normal amounts of money...money does have to come into play at some point. Not everyone can live with the 'money is no object' attitude some have on this list. On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Constance Warner wrote: I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and requirements is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not organize itself according to our wishes. If she's even thinking of buying a Mac [which from context it's clear that she's NOT] she needs to look at Macs overall--quality, price, everything. If price is the only criterion, well, that's her choice; but if she wants a Mac at an unrealistically low price--well, that's just wishful thinking. Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a lot of fun. And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano isn't a fake car, either. It's just not the same as a Toyota or a Honda, for which one can expect to pay a bit more. --Constance Warner On Mar 30, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: Well, if she started out her quest [for a laptop] with a set of inflexible requirements that the real world might not be able to meet--including parts of the real world like computer stores-- she's limited her options and determined the outcome of her shopping trip before she's even started. It's like saying, "I want a flawless one-carat stone, but I require that the ring should cost no more than $100." Guess what? You're getting cubic zirconia! Constance, wanting a laptop for under $1,000 is neither unreasonable nor impossible. The parts of the real world that are unable to meet her requirements are not "computer stores" but "Apple stores". As to cubic zirconia, the analogy doesn't hold because, your personal opinion of it notwithstanding, her HP is not a fake computer. ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** *** ** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** *** ** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * ** *** ** List
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> Fine. Well built and reliable. Better built and more reliable than > a similarly outfitted Macintosh? Far less worrisome in operation? > Much less need for "Geeks On Call?" Just as reliable and well-built, if not more so. I don't know about the "Geeks." I've never needed nor used them. > How come all WFBs here say they virtually never need any servicing > performed on their Windows machines, yet every Windows user I know of > elsewhere often has problems that need to be addressed? Running as admin. It's the signal biggest design flaw until Vista. FWIW, I manage to find all sorts of troubleshooting sites when one of my Macs throws a shoe. > So now the WFBs are not only claiming to have the best OS, they are > also claiming to have the best built machines upon which to run the > OS, and all for far less money as well. That explains everything. If you say so, I never said anything of the sort, except for the money part. I roll my own at home and buy Dell at work. I have practically no problems with hardware and few with the OS, but no one runs as the admin either. I do very little troubleshooting that doesn't involve 3rd party apps. > Anecdote warning. I know the manager at a store that primarily > sells batteries. He used to be a technician, a Macintosh technician. > He had so little troubleshooting work that he gave that up and went to > work selling batteries. He says, "Now, if I had been a Windows > tech" Of course, they have ~90x more users. When I go into an Apple store [shudder], the *cough* Geniuses all seem to be very busy with Apple owners having problems. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>Well she could have a laptop running MAC OSX for under $1K. It would of >course be a hackintosh. If she were happy with a netbook then she could >just pull it off for under $500 including buying OSX.5. That M$ gets some >money, Apple gets some money and MSI or dell or whoever gets some money. But it would not then not be big, bulky, and heavy, with poor battery life, a crummy screen, and loaded with crapware. WFBs would not like it. Many MFBs think netbooks running OS X are cool, but we buy the version with Linux so MS don't get any dough out of it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Few ads from MS come to my attention. So, okay Chris, does MS have other ads out? The last long campaign I remember was the one about all the "innovation." Before the law-suits. Using your logic, apple's ads would be doing the same as MS, but they seem to strike varying topics to tout their product lines. Thank you, -Original Message- There's no validity to your assumption that one ad is supposed to show all possible reasons for doing something. Here's an old Apple ad that I picked more or less at random: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz78v4euRd0 Using your logic, the Apple ad is saying that only reason to buy a Mac is that it's faster. You're sticking the word "only" where it doesn't belong. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
> Game Over. Thank GOD. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
>I will again ask the question that no one answers: Why is there no Apple >laptop for those on a budget? They do. The MacBook is $999 list and can be found for less. Silly WFB. I suspect your real question is why Apple does not make a computer that is big, bulky, and heavy, with poor battery life, a crummy screen, and loaded with crapware. Do I really have to answer that one? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] toast
There seems to be a fundamental difference between most apple users and most windows users. Apple users identify themselves with their computers, it means something to them, they get tshirts with apple logos, they put apple stickers on their cars. You don't find many windows users with stickers on their cars. Why? Is it because they are ashamed about windows? Or could it be something different? I like toast. I have a 10 dollar toaster oven I got at a garage sale, looks brand new. I could have bought a 150 dollar toaster oven at some shop that did toast perfectly, but I got the 10 dollar deal down the road. Now I have to pay more for my cheaper toast because during mid-toasting I have to turn the toast over to get proper browning on my toast. I'm thinking a small price to pay for a 10 dollar toaster oven for my beloved toast. You know what? I don't have a sticker of my toaster oven on my car. I don't have any shirts that say 'think different-with toast'. To most windows users, their computer is a toaster oven...it's not a badge identifying them to the world about their life goals and statements. It's just freakin toast. Mike * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Dino Dai Zovi [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop
He isn't a MFB, he's too intellectually honest about the computer he's on. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > >The one thing other contests do test that Pwn2Own doesn't is speed. I > >could have written my exploit in a day or a week or even a month. At other > >contests, you have to be ready to go non-stop for three days or whatever. > > Didn't I just write that: an exploit coded in advance embedded in a web > page. The winner just had to type in the URL. > > And he does do all his work on a Mac. He is a MFB. > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Steve you are seeing something that is not in the ad. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Not true. Your problem is with the placement of the word "only". It is true that MS is advertising themselves as the _only_ alternative for people on a tight budget. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Dino Dai Zovi [Was: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop
>The one thing other contests do test that Pwn2Own doesn't is speed. I >could have written my exploit in a day or a week or even a month. At other >contests, you have to be ready to go non-stop for three days or whatever. Didn't I just write that: an exploit coded in advance embedded in a web page. The winner just had to type in the URL. And he does do all his work on a Mac. He is a MFB. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Sometimes It's like some mac users look in the mirror and reflect back at non mac users their own feelings. There are no WFB..they don't exist in the same way MFB exist. The mac community was on the fighting end for so long they are just never not fighting. It's like so many of them have little man syndrome. The only WFB I can think of are more of an offshoot and they are technically gamer fan bois...which annoy most windows users too. I just wish Apple would reach some level of success and/or market share they can just sit back and be satisfied. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:15 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: > > > So now the WFBs are not only claiming to have the best OS, they are > also claiming to have the best built machines upon which to run the > OS, and all for far less money as well. That explains everything. > > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> I don't see any other message in their ad. Just MS is cheaper, so > buy a laptop with Windows if you can't afford more. > > Do they make another point that I missed? There's no validity to your assumption that one ad is supposed to show all possible reasons for doing something. Here's an old Apple ad that I picked more or less at random: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz78v4euRd0 Using your logic, the Apple ad is saying that only reason to buy a Mac is that it's faster. You're sticking the word "only" where it doesn't belong. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
>That's true, MS did stack the deck to artificially exclude apple. Game Over. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: > Then you have played right into their hands. I regualrly use > sub-$1,000 laptops that are extemely well built and reliable. Fine. Well built and reliable. Better built and more reliable than a similarly outfitted Macintosh? Far less worrisome in operation? Much less need for "Geeks On Call?" How come all WFBs here say they virtually never need any servicing performed on their Windows machines, yet every Windows user I know of elsewhere often has problems that need to be addressed? So now the WFBs are not only claiming to have the best OS, they are also claiming to have the best built machines upon which to run the OS, and all for far less money as well. That explains everything. Anecdote warning. I know the manager at a store that primarily sells batteries. He used to be a technician, a Macintosh technician. He had so little troubleshooting work that he gave that up and went to work selling batteries. He says, "Now, if I had been a Windows tech" Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Since MS does not make hardware, why did they bring hardware into it? Apple sells OS X separately; does MS sell windows for less? What about the applications? Anything they can advertize other than low-price when they compare themselves to apple? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- I would be hard pressed to find a laptop that competes with Apple on the looks of the machine. The new laptops are exceptional looking. But they aren't 1000 dollars more exceptional looking then competing specs for me. MS is fighting apple in the area it can...cost of hardware, Apple margins are gigantic, other hardware manufacturers, not so much. http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/adamo/topi cs/en/us/adamo-onyx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19 There is a high end dell, appears to be good build quality, has the price tag to claim it does anyway. If I had two grand to spend on a laptop I have to say it would be a hard decision between that and a mac. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Not true. Your problem is with the placement of the word "only". It is true that MS is advertising themselves as the _only_ alternative for people on a tight budget. Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: And that is my Point! MS is _only_ advertizing themselves as the alternative for people on a tight budget. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I would be hard pressed to find a laptop that competes with Apple on the looks of the machine. The new laptops are exceptional looking. But they aren't 1000 dollars more exceptional looking then competing specs for me. MS is fighting apple in the area it can...cost of hardware, Apple margins are gigantic, other hardware manufacturers, not so much. http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/adamo/topics/en/us/adamo-onyx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19 There is a high end dell, appears to be good build quality, has the price tag to claim it does anyway. If I had two grand to spend on a laptop I have to say it would be a hard decision between that and a mac. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: > > It is likely that for the most part Macintosh machines are of higher > > quality in terms of component parts than are far less expensive > > similarly sized and outfitted machines designed and marketed for the > > Windows OS. It is very difficult for me to believe that a $700 > > computer will be of equivalent build quality as a $1,700 computer in > > most instances. > > Then you have played right into their hands. I regualrly use > sub-$1,000 laptops that are extemely well built and reliable. > > Lexus is very worried about Hyundai's new luxury models, escpecially > the new Genesis, which cost a fraction of what a Lexus cost. They > should be worried, as Hyundai is eating their lunch by competing > directly with them on quality and selling for much less. The only > factor left to overcome for Hyundai is the cachet factor. > > Dell has been doing this for years and is equal in quality to Apple. > Happily for Dell customers, saving money is more af an issue than > pumping cachet. > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] COMPUTERGUYS-L Digest - 30 Mar 2009 to 31 Mar 2009 - Special issue (#2009-306)
I had felt that way for many years but hoped it had abated some when I bought my MacBookPro 3 years ago; my first Apple OS device. Those old feelings of not wanting to associate with certain types of folks have been reawakened lately. I just hope that I can be grown up enough to let those feelings past. I just may have to stop reading some of my subscriptions ... at least for a time. YMMV > Unfortunately, for every reasonable Mac user like ___ or ___, there > are 4 or 5 zealots who just don't know when to keep their trap shut. I had > no opinion about Macs before I came on this list over a decade ago, but > exposure here and elsewhere to the MacZealots has given me a very negative > perception about Apple; it almost qualifies as visceral. I seriously doubt > that I will ever buy a Mac. > --- Laugh and the world laughs with you, snore and you sleep alone. - Anthony Burgess * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I don't see any other message in their ad. Just MS is cheaper, so buy a laptop with Windows if you can't afford more. Do they make another point that I missed? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Faulty logic. The statement: If you are on a budget, you buy a PC laptop is not equivalent to the statement Only if you are on a budget, you buy a PC laptop * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> And that is my Point! MS is only advertizing themselves as the > alternative for people on a tight budget. Let's crow to the heavens > and > rejoice! Thou tomb stone shall read: None were cheaper than him! > > Not sure why everybody keeps bringing up irrelevant examples about cars > when the talk about computers; is that a microsoft thing? No, it was an attempt to illustrate the logical fallacy you keep using. Apparently it didn't take. As Steve said, these two statements are not equivalent: What you claim the ad says: "Only if you are on a budget should you buy a Windows laptop." What the ad actually says: "If you are on a budget, you can only buy a Windows laptop." These are NOT the same. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Nope, they picked cheap. There are fine windows configurations available, but MS picked a bottom-feeder to bolster their ad: If you must buy cheap, you must buy our OS on it. Strange message for a software maker, no? For the record, the hardware was the scum-sucker, not MS. I just think it strange that this is their main marketing strategy. Apple doesn't make their main logic boards anymore, since they went with Intel, but they used to design them. What's the point? I never said the hardware from Apple is better because they make every component; they never have. I also wrote that one can buy good hardware running Windows. But that was not what MS chose for their we are cheap ad, which required the cheap hardware. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Check your outgoing about 21 hours ago where you said and I quote: *No. So they show adds of people buying _laptops_ and showing how much cheaper they are (with scum-sucking bottom feeder hardware).* The implication being running any hardware with windows is scum sucking bottom feeder hardware..or as I asked is it only some of it is scum sucking? You do realize Apple doesn't make it's own motherboards in those laptops, right? On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:02 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) < mark.sny...@ngc.com> wrote: > Not sure how this got to be anything not a Mac is scum. I was > responding to criticism that MS does not sell hardware, but MS was > showing old hardware with their OS as cheaper than Apple's. Their > cheaper ad requires comparing bottom of the barrel hardware to Apple's. > > Thank you, > > Mark Snyder > -Original Message- > Ah, now we get to it...anyone not running Apple hardware is, let me > get this right...scum sucking bottom feeders, or is it anyone not > running Apple hardware *likes* scum sucking bottom feeder hardware? I > can't tell exactly how you were insulting anyone without macs. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
> My point is that Lady Shopright COULD have had a Mac laptop, IF she > hadn't wanted to pay a Wal-Mart discount price for a fancy, premium > new machine. Which is pretty unrealistic--if she had done 5 minutes' > worth of research on the Net, she would have known that. No need for > even a pretend visit to the Apple Store. Constance, this really doesn't strike you as criticizing a TV commercial for being a TV commercial? They are that they are. They make their points visually. The shot of her walking away from the Apple store empty-handed was a great visual. Would anything she did on the net have as much effect? They're both plausible, so why use the option that wouldn't show as well? Why would they do that? If you ran the ad agency making this commercial, would YOU do that? Does any of this affect the truthiness of its basic point, that if you need a laptop with a decent size screen and you have only a thousand bucks, you're out of luck with Apple because they don't make one? Isn't that factually accurate? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> It is likely that for the most part Macintosh machines are of higher > quality in terms of component parts than are far less expensive > similarly sized and outfitted machines designed and marketed for the > Windows OS. It is very difficult for me to believe that a $700 > computer will be of equivalent build quality as a $1,700 computer in > most instances. Then you have played right into their hands. I regualrly use sub-$1,000 laptops that are extemely well built and reliable. Lexus is very worried about Hyundai's new luxury models, escpecially the new Genesis, which cost a fraction of what a Lexus cost. They should be worried, as Hyundai is eating their lunch by competing directly with them on quality and selling for much less. The only factor left to overcome for Hyundai is the cachet factor. Dell has been doing this for years and is equal in quality to Apple. Happily for Dell customers, saving money is more af an issue than pumping cachet. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
And that is my Point! MS is only advertizing themselves as the alternative for people on a tight budget. Let's crow to the heavens and rejoice! Thou tomb stone shall read: None were cheaper than him! Not sure why everybody keeps bringing up irrelevant examples about cars when the talk about computers; is that a microsoft thing? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- > So, assuming this ad is successful, the only reason to buy a Windows > computer is because you're on budget. I don't know whether you're being deliberately obtuse or not. This is logically indefensible. Suppose my car won't start, and then I find that my neighbor's car won't start either, because his battery is dead. Does that mean that my battery also must be dead, and that the fact that I have no gas is not relevant? Well, guess what? It turns out that there's more than one possible reason why a car won't start, and there's more than one possible reason to buy a Windows machine. The ad neither implies nor demonstrates that this is the *only* reason; it demonstrates (proves, really) *one* reason. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Maybe she needed a laptop today, not three years from now after scrimping and saving? Maybe she wanted one with at least some kind of warranty rather then a 4 year old mac that has nothing but duct tape and a wing and a prayer keeping it together. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 7:49 AM, Constance Warner wrote: > Shopping with a budget and a list? I shop with a wing and a prayer. Car > dealers [and other purveyors of big-ticket items] would hate me, because if > something costs more than I can afford [most of the time, BTW] I just don't > buy. The purchase of a Mac laptop [I do have a relatively new one now] is > something that was planned for, and schemed for, for years before I FINALLY > got it. Before that, my laptops were used [including my first Mac laptop, > my beloved $25 clamshell]; one was rescued FROM THE TRASH--I got there > minutes before the cleaning crew would have chucked it into the trash bin on > the cleaning cart. [No, the cleaners--whom I had gotten to know fairly > well--couldn't have used the computer themselves.] > > My point is that Lady Shopright COULD have had a Mac laptop, IF she hadn't > wanted to pay a Wal-Mart discount price for a fancy, premium new machine. > Which is pretty unrealistic--if she had done 5 minutes' worth of research > on the Net, she would have known that. No need for even a pretend visit to > the Apple Store. > > --Constance Warner > > On Mar 30, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: > > Constance I am not sure how you shop but I shop with a budget and a list. >> >> I have a preconceived idea of what I need and want before I go shopping. >> Ever go to a grocery store without a list? How much do you spend without a >> list versus with a list. >> >> When I go shopping for a car I have a budget and a needs list. (4 door, >> automatic (I like clutches but my wife dose not) power seats, power windows >> etc.) >> >> If I did not find a car within my budget I either revise my budget or I >> revise my needs list. >> >> Car dealers love folks like you because they can over sell a car to you >> because you will take what they tell you, you need. >> >> By the way I will not pay more for a foreign car just because it is >> foreign. It better give me a lot more for my buck than a domestic car or I >> am not buying it. >> >> I have owned a couple of foreign cars but European cars not Japanese. (I >> am not prejudiced as I realize that most American cars sold are multi >> national cars. I have just been bitten by repair facilities over charging >> for fixing foreign cars.) >> >> Price is at one point important, but at another point just part of the >> equation. >> >> The point of the Ad (it was not a documentary it is placed as an ad, that >> is like calling these paid advertisements on TV documentaries.) was that you >> could not buy a Mac Notebook for under $1,000.00. That was the main point >> they wanted to make. All sorts of assumptions have been made on what they >> were trying to say. But you know what they say about assumptions. :-) >> >> Stewart >> >> >> At 09:00 AM 3/30/2009, you wrote: >> >>> I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and >>> requirements is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not >>> organize itself according to our wishes. If she's even thinking of >>> buying a Mac [which from context it's clear that she's NOT] she >>> needs to look at Macs overall--quality, price, everything. If price >>> is the only criterion, well, that's her choice; but if she wants a >>> Mac at an unrealistically low price--well, that's just wishful thinking. >>> >>> Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a >>> lot of fun. And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano >>> isn't a fake car, either. It's just not the same as a Toyota or a >>> Honda, for which one can expect to pay a bit more. >>> >>> --Constance Warner >>> >> >> >> >> Rev. Stewart A. Marshall >> mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net >> Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org >> Ozark, AL SL 82 >> >> >> * >> ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** >> ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** >> * >> > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> Jeff, I do use _both_ W XP and OS X daily. I never called windows users > riff-raff. You seem to want to drag that in. I am not whining about MS > commercial, just criticizing it. Then you aren't paying attention to what you are writing. > Don't buy a Mac, but at least try one before you whimper about Mac fans > or get out-raged at criticism of MS. Might just tone down your rhetoric > a little. I have, many times. Apple makes very good machines and I don't have anything against them. It's their user base that's the problem. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Check your outgoing about 21 hours ago where you said and I quote: *No. So they show adds of people buying _laptops_ and showing how much cheaper they are (with scum-sucking bottom feeder hardware).* The implication being running any hardware with windows is scum sucking bottom feeder hardware..or as I asked is it only some of it is scum sucking? You do realize Apple doesn't make it's own motherboards in those laptops, right? On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:02 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) < mark.sny...@ngc.com> wrote: > Not sure how this got to be anything not a Mac is scum. I was > responding to criticism that MS does not sell hardware, but MS was > showing old hardware with their OS as cheaper than Apple's. Their > cheaper ad requires comparing bottom of the barrel hardware to Apple's. > > Thank you, > > Mark Snyder > -Original Message- > Ah, now we get to it...anyone not running Apple hardware is, let me get > this right...scum sucking bottom feeders, or is it anyone not running > Apple hardware *likes* scum sucking bottom feeder hardware? I can't > tell exactly how you were insulting anyone without macs. > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> Apple does not choose to build laptops good for only a year or two. My > wife's ibook circa 2004 is still going strong as is my 2006 Macbook Pro. At > work they have to cycle out their Dell laptops every two years - cheaper > than keeping them in repair. Are they used in the same manner in the same environment? If not, then the comparison is meaningless. I use a circa 2001 Dell Optiplex laptop at home, that was used daily here in the office for 5 years. I have bought about 2 dozen Dell laptops over the past 8 years or so and only a 1 or 2 of them have needed repairs not related to user abuse. Even then, we're only talking about missing keys on the keyboard and such. The Dell business line models are very well built and very reliable. I just picked up a refurbed 15.4" Vostro 1000 from Dell, their new budget line for business, for $600, which includes a 3-year, on-site next business day warranty. I doubt I will ever use the warranty, but it's nice to know that I won't have to schlep it to the mall, and leave it for 1-3 weeks for repair, if I do need it. Good luck getting a Macbook with that warranty. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Matthew Taylor wrote: > You can pay a little more up front to save big in the long run, or you can > pay less up front at a long term cost. It is likely that for the most part Macintosh machines are of higher quality in terms of component parts than are far less expensive similarly sized and outfitted machines designed and marketed for the Windows OS. It is very difficult for me to believe that a $700 computer will be of equivalent build quality as a $1,700 computer in most instances. I do not believe that Apple Computer Corp. arbitrarily prices their computers so that they will be appealing primarily to the brie and BMW crowd with little concern as to the quality of the product. Please note that I am not speaking here about the OS, but only the hardware. Therefore, if Macintosh offers a higher quality hardware system that also includes what I think is a better, albeit less popular operating system, and if I can buy it, then I will. I do not necessarily want the same thing that "everybody" else has, which is, by the way, the reason I hear many Windows users give as their rationale for using Windows computers. My brother works in the software field, and although he thinks that the Mac is the better computer in technical and electrical terms, he is wedded to Windows machines because of the nature of his job. He cannot really comment on the OS differences because he has almost never had his hands on a Mac. Additionally, as I have stated here before, most Windows users I know say they will simply feel uncomfortable and insecure if they leave the Windows fold out of fear that they will not be able to get the help that they often need to sort out problems that arise. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> Apple does not choose to build laptops good for only a year or two. > My wife's ibook circa 2004 is still going strong as is my 2006 Macbook > Pro. At work they have to cycle out their Dell laptops every two > years - cheaper than keeping them in repair. Anecdotal evidence. I've got my own. I have inexpensive laptops that are older than your 2004 iBook. They work fine. My sister has a ancient cheap Win95 laptop that she uses every day. It works fine. Most of the people I know replace PCs not because they don't work but because they want newer generation machines that are bigger and faster. To say that Apple is incapable of building a less expensive machine that won't last more than "a year or two" is a sad commentary on its engineering skills. But I don't believe this for an instant. They are perfectly capable of doing this; they choose not to. Why that is, I couldn't tell you. I *can* tell you that Apple appears to love its per-unit profit margin. How else to explain the $700 price difference between 1.6GHz Air and the 1.86GHz Air? The extra quarter-GHz and replacing the SATA drive with an SSD costs $700? Please. That's a buck more than Lauren paid for her whole computer. Seems like this could be more telling in terms of why there's no affordable Mac than any concern you have about Apple's ability to build a decent machine for less money. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Shopping with a budget and a list? I shop with a wing and a prayer. Car dealers [and other purveyors of big-ticket items] would hate me, because if something costs more than I can afford [most of the time, BTW] I just don't buy. The purchase of a Mac laptop [I do have a relatively new one now] is something that was planned for, and schemed for, for years before I FINALLY got it. Before that, my laptops were used [including my first Mac laptop, my beloved $25 clamshell]; one was rescued FROM THE TRASH--I got there minutes before the cleaning crew would have chucked it into the trash bin on the cleaning cart. [No, the cleaners--whom I had gotten to know fairly well--couldn't have used the computer themselves.] My point is that Lady Shopright COULD have had a Mac laptop, IF she hadn't wanted to pay a Wal-Mart discount price for a fancy, premium new machine. Which is pretty unrealistic--if she had done 5 minutes' worth of research on the Net, she would have known that. No need for even a pretend visit to the Apple Store. --Constance Warner On Mar 30, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Constance I am not sure how you shop but I shop with a budget and a list. I have a preconceived idea of what I need and want before I go shopping. Ever go to a grocery store without a list? How much do you spend without a list versus with a list. When I go shopping for a car I have a budget and a needs list. (4 door, automatic (I like clutches but my wife dose not) power seats, power windows etc.) If I did not find a car within my budget I either revise my budget or I revise my needs list. Car dealers love folks like you because they can over sell a car to you because you will take what they tell you, you need. By the way I will not pay more for a foreign car just because it is foreign. It better give me a lot more for my buck than a domestic car or I am not buying it. I have owned a couple of foreign cars but European cars not Japanese. (I am not prejudiced as I realize that most American cars sold are multi national cars. I have just been bitten by repair facilities over charging for fixing foreign cars.) Price is at one point important, but at another point just part of the equation. The point of the Ad (it was not a documentary it is placed as an ad, that is like calling these paid advertisements on TV documentaries.) was that you could not buy a Mac Notebook for under $1,000.00. That was the main point they wanted to make. All sorts of assumptions have been made on what they were trying to say. But you know what they say about assumptions. :-) Stewart At 09:00 AM 3/30/2009, you wrote: I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and requirements is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not organize itself according to our wishes. If she's even thinking of buying a Mac [which from context it's clear that she's NOT] she needs to look at Macs overall--quality, price, everything. If price is the only criterion, well, that's her choice; but if she wants a Mac at an unrealistically low price--well, that's just wishful thinking. Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a lot of fun. And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano isn't a fake car, either. It's just not the same as a Toyota or a Honda, for which one can expect to pay a bit more. --Constance Warner Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Jeff, I do use _both_ W XP and OS X daily. I never called windows users riff-raff. You seem to want to drag that in. I am not whining about MS commercial, just criticizing it. Don't buy a Mac, but at least try one before you whimper about Mac fans or get out-raged at criticism of MS. Might just tone down your rhetoric a little. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- There's nothing wrong with wanting the best, especially if you can afford it. I didn't see any criticism of that and I know I have no problem with that. But when you start harping about how the riff-raff are allowed to play on the same golf course that you do, you out yourself as an elitist snob. Spin it any way you want, but all I hear now is Thurston Howell III. The rest of the whiners about the commercial made the Apple community look to be a pipsqueak punk who's been insulting and harassing you all the school year and when you finally had enough, turn around and belt him a good one, he runs home crying to mommy. Unfortunately, for every reasonable Mac user like E. Riley or Steve, there are 4 or 5 zealots who just don't know when to keep their trap shut. I had no opinion about Macs before I came on this list over a decade ago, but exposure here and elsewhere to the MacZealots has given me a very negative perception about Apple; it almost qualifies as visceral. I seriously doubt that I will ever buy a Mac. Which is fine by me; PCs and Windows meet all of my needs. One of these days I'll get around to installing Ubuntu on my laptop. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Faulty logic. The statement: If you are on a budget, you buy a PC laptop is not equivalent to the statement Only if you are on a budget, you buy a PC laptop Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: So, assuming this ad is successful, the only reason to buy a Windows computer is because you're on budget. Wow, how far does MS expect to get with that as their brand? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- I don't care what the budget buyer's want; I want a good laptop computer, and Apple has models that appeal to that. Well, there ya go. The fact that budget buyers exist and are not served by Apple is sorta the whole point, isn't it? Whether you care about them or not? FYI, the budget buyers don't care what you want, either. One thing they do know is that they can't have a Mac laptop even if that's what they really want. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
> So, assuming this ad is successful, the only reason to buy a Windows > computer is because you're on budget. I don't know whether you're being deliberately obtuse or not. This is logically indefensible. Suppose my car won't start, and then I find that my neighbor's car won't start either, because his battery is dead. Does that mean that my battery also must be dead, and that the fact that I have no gas is not relevant? Well, guess what? It turns out that there's more than one possible reason why a car won't start, and there's more than one possible reason to buy a Windows machine. The ad neither implies nor demonstrates that this is the *only* reason; it demonstrates (proves, really) *one* reason. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters
Actually the better choice right now is the netbooks for classroom notes etc. They are light very portable and not a huge footprint. I was in Target the other day and they had a closeout on a Linux ASUS netbook for 212.00. Those truly are the portable choice right now. Download your stuff to a external and then use it on a desktop or a 17" notebook. Stewart At 08:52 AM 3/31/2009, you wrote: No - I am saying, as one with decades professionally in and out of academic environments, that the overwhelming majority of classroom settings are inhospitable to both the physical profile and battery life of a 17 inch laptop. A smaller laptop that will actually fit on a standard class chair/desk, especially one in a lecture hall, is a vastly superior choice for what you will be doing in a classroom setting. Back at home or dorm where there is more room you can get an even bigger monitor and an actual real keyboard with numeric keypad for whatever the need is. The best of both worlds. Thus, by first rationally analyzing the problem, you end up with a better solution. In this case it could be PC or Mac depending on the software needed. Matthew Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
You are defining your own criteria. I do have a budget on shoes. I will not pay more than $70.00 for a pair of shoes. I need a pair of shoes that are comfortable, look nice, will wear well, and DO NOT HURT MY FEET! I will look and look and look until I find that pair of shoes that meats all that above criteria. I do not buy my shoes in department stores, I cannot afford them. I instead go to the discounters who have what I need. They last me as well as I can expect them to last. You cant resole rubber soles. I upgrade my laptops as needed. Hard drives, memory etc. I can keep a laptop for about 4 years, but I use it heavily. BY the way I would not have bought an HP laptop. I would have bought a Dell instead. Stewart At 09:06 AM 3/31/2009, you wrote: Different definition of "budget". When you as an adult buy a pair of shoes, do you buy the cheap ones that will wear out in a year or two, or good quality ones that with care will last a decade or more? When you buy a power tool that you plan to use a lot do you buy a Walmart special that will die with heavy use or spend more to get a solid tool that will outlast you (I still have some of my father's power tools that work great)? Apple does not choose to build laptops good for only a year or two. My wife's ibook circa 2004 is still going strong as is my 2006 Macbook Pro. At work they have to cycle out their Dell laptops every two years - cheaper than keeping them in repair. You can pay a little more up front to save big in the long run, or you can pay less up front at a long term cost. Understand the difference? Matthew Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
