Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Michael Lewis]

Robert sez:

>P. S. Here's what Dad recommended for PC laptop (taken from Dell website):
>
>Intel Core Duo T7200 2 GHz. processor, 667 MHz. FSB
>15.4" WXGA screen
>1 GB memory, with possibility of expansion
>120 GB hard drive
>CD/DVD burner
>256 MB GeForce 7300 video card
>85 WHr battery
>wireless card
>
>Dell price $1,286 at the time

She'd be fine with a MacBook. You give up a couple inches in screen but
gain a SuperDrive that will burn DVDs among other things. Especially
with her being in an artistic major. The base model has:

Intel Core Duo 2GHz processor, 667 MHz FSB
13.3" glossy widescreen display
1 GB memory, expandable to 2GB
80 GB hard drive (replace with a 120 GB drive for $50 at purchase)
(note these drives are 5400RPM; the Dell maybe a slower 4200RPM and
depending on the work she does it can be noticeable)
Dual-Layer SuperDrive (CDROM,CD-R,CD-RW,DVD+-R)
Intel GMA 950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with
main memory
(MacBook Pros get the bigger video chips; this is acceptable for all but
the most demanding games)
55WHr lithium battery (up to 6 hours on battery, give or take for drive,
DVD, etc. use)
Airport Extreme wireless built-in (.b/.g/.n bands)

Other things that Dell may not have:
Built-in iSight camera
iLife applications (not demo apps that time out in 30 days like a lot of
PCs are loaded with)
Apple Remote for use with Front Row media software
Built-in omni-directional mic
Bluetooth
Mag-Safe power adapter (connects magnetically and pops off if the cord
is kicked; less chance laptop dragged to floors)
Firewire port (and 2 USB 2.0 ports)

$1299 from the Apple Store 

Oh, you can also run Windows on it if you have to via Boot Camp (reboot
into Windows) or something like Parallels (runs Windows on top of Mac OS
X. Buy from some place like MacMall.Com and you can get several freebies
(usually free after rebate) such as RAM upgrades, printers, etc. If she
needs MS Office, get the Student/Teacher Edition. It's much cheaper.
However, if all she would be using is Word, consider using NEO-Office
(free from ) or just using Mac OS X's
TextEdit which will read most Word .doc and save as also.

More here: 

Note that there is a slightly lesser version of the MacBook that is a
very capable little system for just $1099. (Although I'd probably up the
RAM on it to 1GB -- so at that point the $1299 model is a good buy).


-- 
Michael Lewis
Off Balance Productions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.offbalance.com



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Pete Rozanski]

>>  Can you comment on the pro/cons of PC versus Mac?

Haven't we beat this enough? 

Pete Rozanski



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Tony B]

Not really, but then nobody's forcing anyone to read or participate in
the thread.

The question of which machine to buy is a valid one and must be
revisited at least yearly since computer hardware and software changes
so rapidly.

But I know what you're anticipating. The rabid 1% portion of the 4%
user base on one machine will often jump in and try to make you feel
_stupid_ if you don't buy that one. Just ignore them.

The girl wants a Mac, get her a Mac. She'll decide for herself if she likes it.


Haven't we beat this enough?




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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Robert]

Well, I meant a reasonable comparison between laptops of the two, not a 
rant.


You can see from the things that were said to my daughter about what PCs 
can't do -- multi-task, run fast, and run without crashing -- that the 
opinions might be biased.  It might well be that a Mac laptop is better 
than a PC (how would I know, I've used neither) but seemingly biased or 
extravagant  expressions don't provide much confidence in veracity.


Pete Rozanski wrote:

 Can you comment on the pro/cons of PC versus Mac?
  


Haven't we beat this enough? 


Pete Rozanski



  




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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Michael Lewis]

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Robert sez:

>Well, I meant a reasonable comparison between laptops of the two, not a 
>rant.
>
.
.
.
.
.
>
>Pete Rozanski wrote:
  Can you comment on the pro/cons of PC versus Mac?
   
>>
>> Haven't we beat this enough? 


Exactly. That's why I just listed the specs of a MacBook and its price
and will let the student decide if the software provided on the MacBook,
the need for gaming-level graphics like the Dell has, or any other
factor determines if she can do her work with one machine over the
other. I have my preference mainly due to what I do and the way I work,
but mentioning that would be talking about me, and we're trying to
determine what is best for the student.

Hopefully she can get to an Apple Store for a good overview of
capabilities, though, so she isn't limited by misinformation she seems
to be getting on both Windows and Mac OS. She could truly compare the
software then, and she likely really won't care how the desktop looks as
long as she can do her work and fun.


-- 
Michael Lewis
Off Balance Productions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.offbalance.com



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Snyder, Mark]

PC-Pete,  We are discussing pros and cons for this guy who's daughter
(college art major) is asking him for one. Geeze man, pay attention: we
are not trying to figure out which is "best" - just what would work for
the daughter...
 
Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
>>  Can you comment on the pro/cons of PC versus Mac?

Haven't we beat this enough? 



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[mike]

Even though her friends do sound biased, it would make sense to go with a
recommendation of peers who are using their laptops for the same things she
will be using hers for.  I think that is the biggest reason to go with
macbook.  If you do go with pc, that dell seems quite overpriced mentioned
in this thread.  Check out Frys electronics online or otherwise, they are
constantly offering deals on solid HP's and Toshibas and Compaqs for under
800 dollars.  Take the extra cash you'd save from buying a macbook and put
it towards one of those we cover everything extended warranties.  Friend of
mine picked up a very nice dual core HP for about 800 with the extended
warranty just a little bit ago.  Find out what she's using it for first,
then look at which would fit better.  The software these stage managers use
might either be mac only or the best version of it is mac only.

Mike

On 5/3/07, Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Daughter in college, studying stage management, decides she wants a
laptop.  Neither she nor dad owns one, and neither have owned a Mac.
Both own desktop PCs with lots of software.  Dad sends daughter his
minimum recommended specifications for PC laptop, using Dell as an
example.

Daughter's friends tell her that Dell and Toshiba laptops are crap, the
only thing to have is a Mac because it will do multi-tasking, runs so
much faster than a PC, and it is so much more reliable than PC.  Based
on these comments, she thinks that she should get a Mac.

Dad has no objection and no bias for either, but worries that
out-of-pocket expenses will be greater for a Mac because of the
necessity of purchasing all new software.

(1)  Can you comment on the pro/cons of PC versus Mac laptop?

(2) Since Dad has no knowledge of Mac, what are the specifications and
models that daughter needs to shop for a Mac?


==

P. S. Here's what Dad recommended for PC laptop (taken from Dell website):

Intel Core Duo T7200 2 GHz. processor, 667 MHz. FSB
15.4" WXGA screen
1 GB memory, with possibility of expansion
120 GB hard drive
CD/DVD burner
256 MB GeForce 7300 video card
85 WHr battery
wireless card

Dell price $1,286 at the time



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Jeff Miles]

	The thing that got me on this thread is the software needed to be  
replaced wasn't mentioned. What is it she's doing and what is it she  
needs?
	Also, are the Macbooks now a dual like the new iMacs? Can't they run  
both a Windows OS as well as a Mac OS?


Jeff M



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Constance Warner]

My husband and I agree that, given what the student wants, a MacBook
would be a good choice.  (Disclaimer: He works for macUpgrades, and
among other things, he sells MacBooks.  He also points out that Apple
has EDUCATIONAL DISCOUNTS.)

I have a MacBook, and I'm very happy with it.

--Constance Warner



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[mike]

They can run both.

Mike

On 5/3/07, Jeff Miles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


The thing that got me on this thread is the software needed to be
replaced wasn't mentioned. What is it she's doing and what is it she
needs?
Also, are the Macbooks now a dual like the new iMacs? Can't they
run
both a Windows OS as well as a Mac OS?

Jeff M



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[John DeCarlo]

I don't have that much to add, except that if she were to choose a Dell, you
could save quite a bit of money by not buying the fastest CPU - there is a
huge premium for that.  I just priced a Dell Home E1505 with your specs
except a 1.73 GHz CPU, and it was around $850.

I don't know how vital it would be for her (would it replace her desktop?)?

I would also invest in an extended warranty through AppleCare (sp?) or Dell
- probably well worth a few hundred.

On 5/3/07, Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



==

P. S. Here's what Dad recommended for PC laptop (taken from Dell website):

Intel Core Duo T7200 2 GHz. processor, 667 MHz. FSB
15.4" WXGA screen
1 GB memory, with possibility of expansion
120 GB hard drive
CD/DVD burner
256 MB GeForce 7300 video card
85 WHr battery
wireless card

Dell price $1,286 at the time



--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Pete Rozanski]

>> Can't they run both a Windows OS as well as a Mac OS?

>They can run both.

How does the licensing work? Does the price for the Mac include a fee for
the Windows OS, and does it need all the MS patches? Which version of
Windows does it run?

PC-Pete



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Pete Rozanski]

 


>>PC-Pete,  We are discussing pros and cons ...
 
>>Mark Snyder

If I am PC-Pete does that make you Mac-Mark?

PC-Pete



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Mason Miller]

MacBook is great.  Get the one with the SuperDrive.  Add:

$129 for the Student/Teacher edition of Microsoft Office for the Mac.
$249 for AppleCare.  Particularly for a student, you will want the 3  
year parts warranty. - You can find this for around $180-190 if you  
shop Amazon/Froogle.


This ought to give her everything she needs to be a productive  
student.  RAM is super easy to upgrade on these units, I would  
recommend at least 1 gig of RAM.


Mason

On May 3, 2007, at 1:12 PM, Robert wrote:

Daughter in college, studying stage management, decides she wants a  
laptop.  Neither she nor dad owns one, and neither have owned a  
Mac.  Both own desktop PCs with lots of software.  Dad sends  
daughter his minimum recommended specifications for PC laptop,  
using Dell as an example.


Daughter's friends tell her that Dell and Toshiba laptops are crap,  
the only thing to have is a Mac because it will do multi-tasking,  
runs so much faster than a PC, and it is so much more reliable than  
PC.  Based on these comments, she thinks that she should get a Mac.


Dad has no objection and no bias for either, but worries that out- 
of-pocket expenses will be greater for a Mac because of the  
necessity of purchasing all new software.

(1)  Can you comment on the pro/cons of PC versus Mac laptop?

(2) Since Dad has no knowledge of Mac, what are the specifications  
and models that daughter needs to shop for a Mac?




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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Wayne Dernoncourt]

On Thu, 3 May 2007, Tony B wrote:
 

But I know what you're anticipating. The rabid 1% portion
of the 4% user base on one machine will often jump in and
try to make you feel _stupid_ if you don't buy that one.
Just ignore them.


At least try to.


The girl wants a Mac, get her a Mac. She'll decide for
herself if she likes it.


It might be interesting to see what her experience is.
It could be a very expensive lesson if it doesn't work
out well.

Take care  |   This clown speaks for himself, his job doesn't
Wayne D.   |   pay for this, etc. (directly anyway)



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[b_s-wilk]

As always, the choice of computer should reflect the kind of software 
that will be used. For people in the creative arts, most agencies and 
video houses use Macs. Creative software, even when cross-platform, is 
written better for Macs [fewer steps, more intuitive, with features 
built into the OS], except for 3D modeling and animation--good 3D 
programs are available for Macs, Unix, Windows.


For many other uses, it probably doesn't matter, as long as she can 
learn how to maintain and back up her system/files herself. Dell has 
very good notebooks [we use an Inspiron] ranging from bargain to 
outrageously expensive [and amazing]. MacBooks are very good [we have an 
iBook]. MacBook Pro notebooks have many more features and capabilities 
but cost 40% more.


With a PC, she can use software she already has. With a MacBook [Pro] 
she can use Windows software [with Bootcamp for dual boot, or Parallels 
emulator, or Codeweavers CrossoverMac] as well as the Mac software 
that's bundled.


Try out several notebook computers. Have her talk to friends about what 
they're using. She needs to go to stores that carry the notebooks she's 
considering so she can compare features, software, specs, then decide 
which one is right for her. Does she need a PC/Extreme card slot? Big 
display? Extended desktop? built-in camera? DVD burner? There are lots 
of considerations and choices. Then let her decide.


Betty



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Jeff Wright]

> Daughter's friends tell her that Dell and Toshiba laptops are crap, the
> only thing to have is a Mac because it will do multi-tasking, runs so
> much faster than a PC

Both systems will mutli-task and have for years.  Windows did this first,
but that's ancient history.  "Runs so much faster" is highly subjective.  A
2-year old Macbook will be spanked by a new Dell in terms of performance and
vice versa.

> and it is so much more reliable than PC.

YMMV.  "PC" is not a monolithic term like Mac.  Many vendors and differing
levels of quality.  Dell and Toshiba are typically tops in quality for PCs.
Lenovo (formerly IBM) has a good rep too.  A careless user can hose a Mac as
quickly as they can a PC.

> Based
> on these comments, she thinks that she should get a Mac.

Hopefully, they don't comment about playing in traffic if she's this easily
swayed.

The computer is a simply a tool and depending on what you are doing and your
budget will determine what you get.  At best, it's a preference; some people
like the Mac platform, others Windows.  Either will get the job done.

You need to tell us what she wants to do and her criteria for what is
acceptable.  Does she want a lighter unit, or can she accept a couple extra
pounds in exchange for a couple hundred dollars cheaper?  What type of
software will she need for classes?  Will the school support the laptop?  If
not, what support is available locally?

Go to the Dell site and poke around.  They have many different configs and
options.  You should be able to pick up a very decent laptop for your
daughter for around $1,000.  The Dell outlet generally has even better
prices, but the selection is limited to what is on hand.  I've bought many
different systems from the outlet and haven't been disappointed.  Still, it
never hurts to extend the warranty out to 3 years, especially since it's a
laptop and will be lugged around.

I have a couple Dell Inspiron 1501 laptops at work I bought from the outlet
refurbed.  No problems.

Dell outlet Inspiron notebooks:  http://tinyurl.com/jyr69



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Mason Miller]

No Windows included, although if you know you want it, you can get the 
Apple with it preinstalled at macmall.com.  Parallels will let you run 
any version of Windows in a Mac "window." Dual booting requires XP or Vista.


Mason

Pete Rozanski wrote:

Can't they run both a Windows OS as well as a Mac OS?
  


  

They can run both.



How does the licensing work? Does the price for the Mac include a fee for
the Windows OS, and does it need all the MS patches? Which version of
Windows does it run?

PC-Pete



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Eric S. Sande]

Windows did this first, but that's ancient history.


AmigaDOS did it before either, and OS-9 I think did it
before AmigaDOS.  But that's ancient history :-)

As far as the daughter's computer, the Mac looks like the
way to go.  If she were a gamer I wouldn't even bother
thinking about a laptop, but that's probably not helpful..

But if she were a gamer she wouldn't need to ask.

:-)

Nice post Jeff, BTW.  Very balanced and sensible.



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Jeff Wright]

> -Original Message-
> AmigaDOS did it before either, and OS-9 I think did it
> before AmigaDOS.  But that's ancient history :-)

Well, I just meant between the 2.  And we're talking pre-emptive
multi-tasking, not that dressed up cooperative stuff.
 
> Nice post Jeff, BTW.  Very balanced and sensible.

Crap.  Now you'll expect it all the time.



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Snyder, Mark]

Sure, turn-about is fair... 

Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
>>PC-Pete,  We are discussing pros and cons ...
 
>>Mark Snyder

If I am PC-Pete does that make you Mac-Mark?

PC-Pete



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Tom Piwowar]

Best to see what the professors are using. Ask what software they find 
the most valuable and make sure she can run that.

My son, with a BFA and MFA in theater and a number of stage productions 
to his credit, is a Mac user and is convinced that all the best software 
for the stage runs on Macs. I also know someone with a daughter majoring 
in stage management (I think at UVA) and her school told her to buy a Mac.

Cost wise, an Apple laptop and a good PC laptop will cost about the same. 
The iBook will be more durable because Apple designed it for the K-12 
school market. The polycarbonate case is impact resistant.

Laptops tend to break more quickly than desktops because of the way they 
are used. So get a service contract for the useful life of the computer 
(3 or 4 years, including the standard warrenty period). Having a contract 
will also get you better service at the Apple Store so check if there is 
one near school. This service can make a big difference in getting the 
most out of a computer.

>Daughter in college, studying stage management, decides she wants a 
>laptop.  Neither she nor dad owns one, and neither have owned a Mac.  
>Both own desktop PCs with lots of software.  Dad sends daughter his 
>minimum recommended specifications for PC laptop, using Dell as an example.
>
>Daughter's friends tell her that Dell and Toshiba laptops are crap, the 
>only thing to have is a Mac because it will do multi-tasking, runs so 
>much faster than a PC, and it is so much more reliable than PC.  Based 
>on these comments, she thinks that she should get a Mac.



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Paul Meyer]

I don't know what the comment about mulitasking pertains to.
I would go with a system76 running Ubuntu.


Tony B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Not really, but then nobody's forcing anyone 
to read or participate in
the thread.

The question of which machine to buy is a valid one and must be
revisited at least yearly since computer hardware and software changes
so rapidly.

But I know what you're anticipating. The rabid 1% portion of the 4%
user base on one machine will often jump in and try to make you feel
_stupid_ if you don't buy that one. Just ignore them.

The girl wants a Mac, get her a Mac. She'll decide for herself if she likes it.

> Haven't we beat this enough?



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Paul Meyer]

I recommended a Linux laptop but given that she is studying
management, you really want something that runs Excel,
and unless you are going she is comfortable doing something
like Codeweavers to support windows programs (vmware or a
dual boot setup for the hard-core), you probably have to go
with Windows or OSX.

mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Even though her friends do sound biased, it 
would make sense to go with a
recommendation of peers who are using their laptops for the same things she
will be using hers for.  I think that is the biggest reason to go with
macbook.  If you do go with pc, that dell seems quite overpriced mentioned
in this thread.  Check out Frys electronics online or otherwise, they are
constantly offering deals on solid HP's and Toshibas and Compaqs for under
800 dollars.  Take the extra cash you'd save from buying a macbook and put
it towards one of those we cover everything extended warranties.  Friend of
mine picked up a very nice dual core HP for about 800 with the extended
warranty just a little bit ago.  Find out what she's using it for first,
then look at which would fit better.  The software these stage managers use
might either be mac only or the best version of it is mac only.

Mike

On 5/3/07, Robert  wrote:
>
> Daughter in college, studying stage management, decides she wants a
> laptop.  Neither she nor dad owns one, and neither have owned a Mac.
> Both own desktop PCs with lots of software.  Dad sends daughter his
> minimum recommended specifications for PC laptop, using Dell as an
> example.
>
> Daughter's friends tell her that Dell and Toshiba laptops are crap, the
> only thing to have is a Mac because it will do multi-tasking, runs so
> much faster than a PC, and it is so much more reliable than PC.  Based
> on these comments, she thinks that she should get a Mac.
>
> Dad has no objection and no bias for either, but worries that
> out-of-pocket expenses will be greater for a Mac because of the
> necessity of purchasing all new software.
>
> (1)  Can you comment on the pro/cons of PC versus Mac laptop?
>
> (2) Since Dad has no knowledge of Mac, what are the specifications and
> models that daughter needs to shop for a Mac?
>
>
> ==
>
> P. S. Here's what Dad recommended for PC laptop (taken from Dell website):
>
> Intel Core Duo T7200 2 GHz. processor, 667 MHz. FSB
> 15.4" WXGA screen
> 1 GB memory, with possibility of expansion
> 120 GB hard drive
> CD/DVD burner
> 256 MB GeForce 7300 video card
> 85 WHr battery
> wireless card
>
> Dell price $1,286 at the time
>
>
> 
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>



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Michael Lewis]

Serendipity strikes again! The WSJ's Walt Mossberg talks about
purchasing a laptop in a new article today:



One thing of interest in it to me, which may not be helpful to a student
who might need a laptop now, was:

>First, you may want to wait to get that new laptop until later this year
>or early in 2008. There are a number of interesting new hardware
>features coming. One is called a "solid-state drive," or SSD, which
>replaces the traditional hard disk with a faster drive made of memory
>chips like those used in digital cameras. Another is a "hybrid hard
>drive," or HHD, which combines memory chips with a standard hard disk,
>for faster start-ups.
>
>Also, more and more laptops will be using light-emitting diodes, or
>LEDs, to light up their screens -- a method that promises to be both
>brighter and less power-hungry.
>
>You also may want to wait for laptops with a new type of Wi-Fi wireless
>networking built-in. It's called "N," and promises to be faster and to
>have longer range.

It's worth a read and had an accompanying video.

-- 
Michael Lewis
Off Balance Productions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.offbalance.com



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Tom Piwowar]

SSD is going to be expensive for a while.

HHD is more interesting in the short term. With memory prices dropping 
the hard drive cache is increased to as much as 1 GB. This shouldn't add 
much to cost. Of course the data loss will be much worse when computers 
crash.

>First, you may want to wait to get that new laptop until later this year
>or early in 2008. There are a number of interesting new hardware
>features coming. One is called a "solid-state drive," or SSD, which
>replaces the traditional hard disk with a faster drive made of memory
>chips like those used in digital cameras. Another is a "hybrid hard
>drive," or HHD, which combines memory chips with a standard hard disk,
>for faster start-ups.



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Tom Piwowar]

>HHD is more interesting in the short term. With memory prices dropping 
>the hard drive cache is increased to as much as 1 GB. This shouldn't add 
>much to cost. Of course the data loss will be much worse when computers 
>crash.

Correction:

HHD uses non-volatile flash memory, just like USB drives do. So data loss 
caused by crashes and power loss should be less of a problem than it is 
now. That's a great reason to upgrade to an HHD drive!



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[D.L.H.]

On 5/3/07, Mason Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

MacBook is great.  Get the one with the SuperDrive.  Add:

$129 for the Student/Teacher edition of Microsoft Office for the Mac.
$249 for AppleCare.  Particularly for a student, you will want the 3
year parts warranty. - You can find this for around $180-190 if you
shop Amazon/Froogle.

This ought to give her everything she needs to be a productive
student.  RAM is super easy to upgrade on these units, I would
recommend at least 1 gig of RAM.

Mason




On Office Packages:


In addition to the Amazon/Wal-Mart/Staples Office "Student" versions,
most schools have even better prices for academic licenses of Office
(for both Windows and Mac).

The community college where I teach part-time,  Towson University that
I attend part-time offer academic licenses for Office 2007.  UMCP has
a similar arrangement.
http://www.oit.umd.edu/slic/howto/homeuse.html
http://tinyurl.com/3a74w4


This is not the Excel/Word/PowerPoint bundle you see in stores. This
is the complete professional version (with those three apps plus
Access, Publisher and Outlook). Cost --with shipping-- around $90.
Mileage may vary depending on school. In my experience, these programs
are often under-publicized. You don't get a colorful box...just
install CDs.

And of course, there is OpenOffice, which I recommend as an
alternative to even the reasonably priced academic
versions...especially after I get the first Works for Windows document
each term:-)



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Robert]

About 6 weeks ago, I asked this listserv about a laptop for my daughter 
in college, now a junior.  She didn't know whether to get a Mac or a PC 
laptop, and her friends were giving her dubious advice.  Thanks to all 
who responded -- I copied each response and emailed them to her as well 
as the recent Consumer Reports article.


Finally yesterday she made her decision:  to get a MacBook Pro, and she 
says she loves it.  She told me that the Mac seemed to be for people who 
didn't know anything about computers such as herself.  (I have no 
opinion since I've never owned any laptop.)


At this point, I don't know whether she got an extended warranty, how 
much SDRAM she got, nor what software came with the laptop.  She bought 
it at a Mac store in Boston, MA.  In case she bought 1 GB of memory, how 
beneficial would increasing to 2 GB be? 

She says that she intends to use the laptop for everything pertaining to 
her study (stage management with a minor in television journalism), and 
to use her desktop PC for her hobbies, which include video editing but 
not gaming.  The PC was built locally to my specifications.


Also, does the MacBook Pro come with an emulation program for Windows?  
If not, what is recommended (we have CDs with Windows ME, XP Home, 2000, 
and XP Pro available to install if needed).




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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[rocky lee]

A Mac Pro will run Windows XP, but you have to provide
the Windows XP from disc.

1 GB will be fine for most 95% of what is done on a
Mac.
2GB or more is recommended if you are running pro apps
such as Aperture, Shake, or Motion. After Effects or
Photoshop will gobble up as much memory as you throw
at them.

For Microsoft Office, the iLife or iWork apps, email,
web browsers, and daily apps, 1GB works fine.

Video editing on a desktop PC when you have a Macbook
Pro?
That's... just wrong.

;)

Rocky



**

Date:Tue, 22 May 2007 19:42:17 -0400
From:Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Comparing Mac and PC laptops

About 6 weeks ago, I asked this listserv about a
laptop for my daughter 
in college, now a junior.  She didn't know whether to
get a Mac or a PC 
laptop, and her friends were giving her dubious
advice.  Thanks to all 
who responded -- I copied each response and emailed
them to her as well 
as the recent Consumer Reports article.

Finally yesterday she made her decision:  to get a
MacBook Pro, and she 
says she loves it.  She told me that the Mac seemed to
be for people 
who 
didn't know anything about computers such as herself. 
(I have no 
opinion since I've never owned any laptop.)

At this point, I don't know whether she got an
extended warranty, how 
much SDRAM she got, nor what software came with the
laptop.  She bought 
it at a Mac store in Boston, MA.  In case she bought 1
GB of memory, 
how 
beneficial would increasing to 2 GB be? 

She says that she intends to use the laptop for
everything pertaining 
to 
her study (stage management with a minor in television
journalism), and 
to use her desktop PC for her hobbies, which include
video editing but 
not gaming.  The PC was built locally to my
specifications.

Also, does the MacBook Pro come with an emulation
program for Windows?  
If not, what is recommended (we have CDs with Windows
ME, XP Home, 
2000, 
and XP Pro available to install if needed).



  
Fussy?
 Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay 
it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Tom Piwowar]

>I copied each response and emailed them to her as well 
>as the recent Consumer Reports article.

Consumer Reports writers love to bad mouth the Mac. You have to dig into 
their charts to see that it is consistently top rated in virtually every 
category. The stats say one thing, the editorial copy says another. An 
untrustworthy source.

>Finally yesterday she made her decision:  to get a MacBook Pro, and she 
>says she loves it.  She told me that the Mac seemed to be for people who 
>didn't know anything about computers such as herself.  (I have no 
>opinion since I've never owned any laptop.)

Also for people who know a lot about computers and know that computers 
don't have to be born defective.

>At this point, I don't know whether she got an extended warranty, how 
>much SDRAM she got, nor what software came with the laptop.  She bought 
>it at a Mac store in Boston, MA.  In case she bought 1 GB of memory, how 
>beneficial would increasing to 2 GB be? 

The MacBook comes with a reasonable amount of RAM. Apple is not cutting 
corners. You should not have to add anything to a current model MacBook 
Pro.

>She says that she intends to use the laptop for everything pertaining to 
>her study (stage management with a minor in television journalism), and 
>to use her desktop PC for her hobbies, which include video editing but 
>not gaming.  The PC was built locally to my specifications.

The MacBook comes with iMovie which is a great way to get started with 
video editing. As her needs grow she can buy FinalCut Express or maybe 
the professional (expensive) FinalCut lineup. Using a PC for video 
editing is a bad move. iMovie is surprising powerful. GarageBand is a 
great audio editor. iDVD is impressive too. All the iLife stuff comes 
with the Mac.

>Also, does the MacBook Pro come with an emulation program for Windows?  
>If not, what is recommended (we have CDs with Windows ME, XP Home, 2000, 
>and XP Pro available to install if needed).

Stay away from this. Windows emulation is for hackers and those into 
pain. And you say she already has a PC so why bother?



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[b_s-wilk]

Also, does the MacBook Pro come with an emulation program for
Windows?  If not, what is recommended (we have CDs with Windows ME,
XP Home, 2000, and XP Pro available to install if needed).


After a short time, she'll realize that she won't need to use Windows 
programs. Until then, there's 
http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/, 
http://www.maconintel.com/news.php?article=119, based on Wine, 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_%28software%29, which runs Windows 
programs without installing Windows.


All of the programs she needs should be available for Mac OS X. If 
there's one she can't find, just ask.



Betty



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Re: [CGUYS] Comparing Mac and PC laptops

[Michael Fernando]

Also, does the MacBook Pro come with an emulation program for Windows?


Emulation?  No, use virtualization.

http://www.parallels.com/   ($80 for Mac, worth every penny)



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