Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Jeff Wright]

> Seriously, this is funnier than Monty Python's old Ministry of
> Arguments
> sketch.

No, it isn't!

If only this thread would pine for the fjords.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>How were they to move around all day?  I've always wondered...

I just noticed that some of the seats on Metro trains have electric 
outlets under them. Obviously put there for iMac users.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

> >Please point out what solution to this set of needs Apple provides:
> 
> You forgot to insist that it must be brown.

What a silly, meaningless response this is.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

> > - I need a decent-size screen and a real keyboard.
> 
> Not in class you don't.  At home you use a real keyboard and any of a
> number of inexpensive flat panel monitors.

Once again, you're telling me what I need and don't need, which has been the
basic McFan response here. The response is not, "Right, Apple doesn't have
that at this point, I wish they did", it's "Gawd, you're just too stupid to
know your own needs, so we'll tell you what they are." This is pretty much
the definition of "hubris."

Why is mighty Apple unable to produce a $699 laptop (especially when they
don't even have to pay for the OS that sits on it)?


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[mike]

How were they to move around all day?  I've always wondered...

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >Get with the program! the 20" iMac is much more practical...
>
> I spent the day working on several 24-inch iMacs. It was s nice.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Get with the program! the 20" iMac is much more practical...

I spent the day working on several 24-inch iMacs. It was s nice.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Jeff Wright]

> I'm thinking of Holy Grail, where the questers ask the French, "Who
> will
> join us in our quest for the Holy Grail?"  John Cleese, in his
> ridiculous
> French accent, leans over the castle wall and responds that they
> already
> have one, then bends down to his confreres and says, "I told them we
> already
> had one!" and they all start laughing.
> 
> I have a vision of Tom leaning over to whomever it is that he leans
> over to
> and saying, "I told them Lauren should've gotten an iMac to take to
> class!",
> followed by everyone clutching their sides and dissolving in gales of
> hilarity.

You may have a point. He does smell of elderberries and has a tendency to
taunt.

Actually, Tom being French explains almost everything.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

> > > > Seriously, this is funnier than Monty Python's old Ministry of
> > > > Arguments sketch.
> > >
> > > No, it isn't!
> > >
> > Yes, it is.
> 
> Oh look, this isn't an argument.

It occurred to me last night that there's another Python bit that's even
more on point than the argument sketch. 

I'm thinking of Holy Grail, where the questers ask the French, "Who will
join us in our quest for the Holy Grail?"  John Cleese, in his ridiculous
French accent, leans over the castle wall and responds that they already
have one, then bends down to his confreres and says, "I told them we already
had one!" and they all start laughing.

I have a vision of Tom leaning over to whomever it is that he leans over to
and saying, "I told them Lauren should've gotten an iMac to take to class!",
followed by everyone clutching their sides and dissolving in gales of
hilarity.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[rocky lee]

Tom,
Get with the program! the 20" iMac is much more
practical...

Rocky

> Date:Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:27:56 -0400
> From:Tom Piwowar 
> Subject: Re: Laptop Hunters
> 
> >(No one tell Tom that Apple sells a laptop that is only
> 1.2 pounds lighter)
> 
> I don't comsider that a laptop. It is actually a
> portable video 
> production studio. That is what it is bought for. That is
> why it costs 
> what it costs. It competes with alternatives selling
> upwards of $100,000. 
> That Mac is a real bargain.



  


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Jeff Wright]

> > > Seriously, this is funnier than Monty Python's old Ministry of
> > > Arguments
> > > sketch.
> >
> > No, it isn't!
> >
> Yes, it is.

Oh look, this isn't an argument.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[katan]

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 06:51:52 -0400, Chris Dunford wrote:

>> I have this image of Tom sitting at home being deliberately obtuse,
>> seeing how much shit he can stir up on this list. It's really not worth
>> it to play his games.
>
>I know. It has occurred to me more than once that if this were anyplace
>else, the dreaded "tr*ll" word would have come up long ago. It's hard to

Ah yes. The T word. It's been so long that I've been on a list that had
the problem I forgot all about it.

>come up with a different explanation for some of the more egregious items
>(such as, iMac is suitable for use on an airplane, and only weightlifters
>are strong enough to carry an HP laptop).

Well, Chris mightn't want to come right out and say it, but frak it, I
will: Tom acts like a troll sometimes. Unfortunately, it's his list, so
he's not likely to reign in the offender, or boot him off.

--
   R:\katan


Tea. . .Earl Grey. . .Hot


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

> > Seriously, this is funnier than Monty Python's old Ministry of
> > Arguments
> > sketch.
> 
> No, it isn't!
> 
Yes, it is.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[John Duncan Yoyo]

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:06 PM, Jeff Wright  wrote:

> > Seriously, this is funnier than Monty Python's old Ministry of
> > Arguments
> > sketch.
>
> No, it isn't!
>
> If only this thread would pine for the fjords.
>

True story The Apple Genius told me that my Wife's 2cnd Generation Nano was
'pining for the fjords' last friday night.   Yes he used those terms and no
I did not off a getting hit in the head lesson.

We had a choice for $99 direct swap for a second generation iPod nano or we
could get 15% off a new fourth generation iPod using the dead parrot as a
trade in.  We traded unfortunately none of our old speaker docks will work
as a charging station.

-- 
John Duncan Yoyo
---o)


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[mike]

So now the macbook pro is a 100,000 dollar studio in a 2000 dollar box?  You
are smokin something totally wack in your house today.  Now I know you send
out these emails on purpose, completely left the building on this one..left
the planet.  You went to far now, it's clear you are doing this to egg on
the fight.  You kept it up awhile though, brought some of the mac glitterati
with you too.

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >(No one tell Tom that Apple sells a laptop that is only 1.2 pounds
> lighter)
>
> I don't comsider that a laptop. It is actually a portable video
> production studio. That is what it is bought for. That is why it costs
> what it costs. It competes with alternatives selling upwards of $100,000.
> That Mac is a real bargain.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>(No one tell Tom that Apple sells a laptop that is only 1.2 pounds lighter)

I don't comsider that a laptop. It is actually a portable video 
production studio. That is what it is bought for. That is why it costs 
what it costs. It competes with alternatives selling upwards of $100,000. 
That Mac is a real bargain.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Steve at Verizon]

Right, but your solution to the gal who wanted a laptop was an iMac 
which is not.


Tom Piwowar wrote:

Tom, read the subject line!



I wrote that subject line. It belongs to me. It is the title of the 
commercial, not a reference to a type of computer.



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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

> >Does any of this affect the truthiness of its basic point, that if you
> need
> >a laptop with a decent size screen and you have only a thousand bucks,
> >you're out of luck with Apple because they don't make one? Isn't that
> >factually accurate?
> 
> No it is nonesense. The big, bulky, heavy, blurry thing she bought is
> hardly a laptop. It is the kind of purchase that ends up in the back of
> the closet.

Seriously, this is funnier than Monty Python's old Ministry of Arguments
sketch.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[mike]

I already defended you on this one.  Tom is too small and frail to lift 8
pounds!  It's not his fault he's built weak.

(No one tell Tom that Apple sells a laptop that is only 1.2 pounds lighter)

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >She wanted a LAPTOP!!!
> >
> >Why do you repeated tell her she can't have one?
>
> She did not buy a laptop. She bought a compact desktop that takes the
> form of a laptop, but it is not a laptop computer. It is too big, bulky,
> and heavy.
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Does any of this affect the truthiness of its basic point, that if you need
>a laptop with a decent size screen and you have only a thousand bucks,
>you're out of luck with Apple because they don't make one? Isn't that
>factually accurate?

No it is nonesense. The big, bulky, heavy, blurry thing she bought is 
hardly a laptop. It is the kind of purchase that ends up in the back of 
the closet.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Tom, read the subject line!

I wrote that subject line. It belongs to me. It is the title of the 
commercial, not a reference to a type of computer.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>She wanted a LAPTOP!!!
>
>Why do you repeated tell her she can't have one?

She did not buy a laptop. She bought a compact desktop that takes the 
form of a laptop, but it is not a laptop computer. It is too big, bulky, 
and heavy.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Back at home or dorm where there is more room you can get an  
>even bigger monitor and an actual real keyboard with numeric keypad  
>for whatever the need is.  The best of both worlds.

Should note that the $999 MacBook will drive a 1920 x 1200 monitor via 
its DVI port. So you can have a compact screen on the road and a big 
screen at home. Also when you work with two screens they display 
independently, so you have even more work space.

A very nice computer for not a lot of money.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[mike]

Must be irritated horribly by all those Apple ads then.

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Constance Warner  wrote:

>
>
> I'm not irritated by her personal choice; I just don't like the deceptive
> rhetoric and the silly attitudes of the commercial.
>
> It's true, the art of the commercial is the art of partial truth and
> distortion.
>
> --Constance Warner
>


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[mike]

It's like a bad horror movie...just when you think it's over it comes back.

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >Well she could have a laptop running MAC OSX for under $1K.   It would of
> >course be a hackintosh.  If she were happy with a netbook then she could
> >just pull it off for under $500 including buying OSX.5.  That M$ gets some
> >money, Apple gets some money and MSI or dell or whoever gets some money.
>
> But it would not then not be big, bulky, and heavy, with poor battery
> life, a crummy screen, and loaded with crapware. WFBs would not like it.
>
> Many MFBs think netbooks running OS X are cool, but we buy the version
> with Linux so MS don't get any dough out of it.
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Constance Warner]

Not quite sure how I 'changed the facts'--everything I posted was  
factual.  It's certainly true that you can get a Mac laptop for less  
than $1K, if you don't demand the latest fancy model, you don't want  
it instantly, and you're willing to do some research.   It's all a  
matter of tradeoffs.


If Lady Shopright is happy with her cheaper Windows machine, then  
hooray for her.  Caveat emptor, and all that.  It's too bad she  
didn't have more lead time to plan, research, and/or save.  Actually,  
since Lady Shopright's needs [for her new computer] are hypothetical,  
it's hard to advise her on what she should have bought.  If her needs  
are average [i.e. no high-end professional graphics; no scientific  
number-crunching; etc.] and her budget is limited, I'd advise her to  
buy one of the neat little netbooks and a paperback guide to Linux.   
The typical netbook is featherweight and comes with an office suite.


I'm not irritated by her personal choice; I just don't like the  
deceptive rhetoric and the silly attitudes of the commercial.


It's true, the art of the commercial is the art of partial truth and  
distortion.


--Constance Warner
On Mar 30, 2009, at 2:13 PM, mike wrote:


Again, changing the facts won't win your argument.

She got what she wanted, for the price she wanted...just because your
irritated it wasn't a mac doesn't mean she didn't.

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Constance Warner  
 wrote:





You don't have to be rich to afford a Mac.  But to demand the  
LATEST model,

17" laptop, for a Wal-Mart discount price?   THAT'S unrealistic.

--Constance Warner



On Mar 30, 2009, at 10:39 AM, mike wrote:

 Constance, when you go shopping are you saying you have ZERO  
criteria?
NONE?  You must be unbelievably rich.  For the rest of us who  
have normal
jobs, make normal amounts of money...money does have to come into  
play at

some point.

Not everyone can live with the 'money is no object' attitude some  
have on

this list.

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Constance Warner 
wrote:

 I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and

requirements
is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not organize  
itself
according to our wishes.  If she's even thinking of buying a Mac  
[which

from
context it's clear that she's NOT]  she needs to look at Macs
overall--quality, price, everything.  If price is the only  
criterion,

well,
that's her choice; but if she wants a Mac at an unrealistically low
price--well, that's just wishful thinking.

Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia,  
and a lot

of
fun.  And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano  
isn't a fake
car, either.  It's just not the same as a Toyota or a Honda, for  
which

one
can expect to pay a bit more.

--Constance Warner



On Mar 30, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Chris Dunford wrote:

 Well, if she started out her quest [for a laptop] with a set of


inflexible requirements that the real world might not be able to
meet--including parts of the real world like computer stores-- 
she's
limited her options and determined the outcome of her shopping  
trip

before she's even started.

It's like saying, "I want a flawless one-carat stone, but I  
require
that the ring should cost no more than $100."  Guess what?   
You're

getting cubic zirconia!


Constance, wanting a laptop for under $1,000 is neither  
unreasonable nor
impossible. The parts of the real world that are unable to meet  
her

requirements are not "computer stores" but "Apple stores".

As to cubic zirconia, the analogy doesn't hold because, your  
personal

opinion of it notwithstanding, her HP is not a fake computer.



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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Well she could have a laptop running MAC OSX for under $1K.   It would of
>course be a hackintosh.  If she were happy with a netbook then she could
>just pull it off for under $500 including buying OSX.5.  That M$ gets some
>money, Apple gets some money and MSI or dell or whoever gets some money.

But it would not then not be big, bulky, and heavy, with poor battery 
life, a crummy screen, and loaded with crapware. WFBs would not like it.

Many MFBs think netbooks running OS X are cool, but we buy the version 
with Linux so MS don't get any dough out of it.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Jeff Wright]

> Game Over.

Thank GOD.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>That's true, MS did stack the deck to artificially exclude apple.

Game Over.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

> My point is that Lady Shopright COULD have had  a Mac laptop, IF she
> hadn't wanted to pay a Wal-Mart discount price for a fancy, premium
> new machine.  Which is pretty unrealistic--if she had done 5 minutes'
> worth of research on the Net, she would have known that.  No need for
> even a pretend visit to the Apple Store.

Constance, this really doesn't strike you as criticizing a TV commercial for
being a TV commercial? They are that they are. They make their points
visually. The shot of her walking away from the Apple store empty-handed was
a great visual. Would anything she did on the net have as much effect?
They're both plausible, so why use the option that wouldn't show as well?
Why would they do that? If you ran the ad agency making this commercial,
would YOU do that?

Does any of this affect the truthiness of its basic point, that if you need
a laptop with a decent size screen and you have only a thousand bucks,
you're out of luck with Apple because they don't make one? Isn't that
factually accurate?


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[mike]

Maybe she needed a laptop today, not three years from now after scrimping
and saving?  Maybe she wanted one with at least some kind of warranty rather
then a 4 year old mac that has nothing but duct tape and a wing and a prayer
keeping it together.


On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 7:49 AM, Constance Warner  wrote:

> Shopping with a budget and a list?  I shop with a wing and a prayer.  Car
> dealers [and other purveyors of big-ticket items] would hate me, because if
> something costs more than I can afford [most of the time, BTW] I just don't
> buy.  The purchase of a Mac laptop [I do have a relatively new one now] is
> something that was planned for, and schemed for, for years before I FINALLY
> got it.  Before that, my laptops were used [including my first Mac laptop,
> my beloved $25 clamshell]; one was rescued FROM THE TRASH--I got there
> minutes before the cleaning crew would have chucked it into the trash bin on
> the cleaning cart.  [No, the cleaners--whom I had gotten to know fairly
> well--couldn't have used the computer themselves.]
>
> My point is that Lady Shopright COULD have had  a Mac laptop, IF she hadn't
> wanted to pay a Wal-Mart discount price for a fancy, premium new machine.
>  Which is pretty unrealistic--if she had done 5 minutes' worth of research
> on the Net, she would have known that.  No need for even a pretend visit to
> the Apple Store.
>
> --Constance Warner
>
> On Mar 30, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
>
>  Constance I am not sure how you shop but I shop with a budget and a list.
>>
>> I have a preconceived idea of what I need and want before I go shopping.
>>  Ever go to a grocery store without a list?  How much do you spend without a
>> list versus with a list.
>>
>> When I go shopping for a car I have a budget and a needs list.  (4 door,
>> automatic (I like clutches but my wife dose not) power seats, power windows
>> etc.)
>>
>> If I did not find a car within my budget I either revise my budget or I
>> revise my needs list.
>>
>> Car dealers love folks like you because they can over sell a car to you
>> because you will take what they tell you, you need.
>>
>> By the way I will not pay more for a foreign car just because it is
>> foreign.  It better give me a lot more for my buck than a domestic car or I
>> am not buying it.
>>
>> I have owned a couple of foreign cars but European cars not Japanese.  (I
>> am not prejudiced as I realize that most American cars sold are multi
>> national cars.  I have just been bitten by repair facilities over charging
>> for fixing foreign cars.)
>>
>> Price is at one point important, but at another point just part of the
>> equation.
>>
>> The point of the Ad (it was not a documentary it is placed as an ad, that
>> is like calling these paid advertisements on TV documentaries.) was that you
>> could not buy a Mac Notebook for under $1,000.00.  That was the main point
>> they wanted to  make.  All sorts of assumptions have been made on what they
>> were trying to say.  But you know what they say about assumptions. :-)
>>
>> Stewart
>>
>>
>> At 09:00 AM 3/30/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>> I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and
>>> requirements is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not
>>> organize itself according to our wishes.  If she's even thinking of
>>> buying a Mac [which from context it's clear that she's NOT]  she
>>> needs to look at Macs overall--quality, price, everything.  If price
>>> is the only criterion, well, that's her choice; but if she wants a
>>> Mac at an unrealistically low price--well, that's just wishful thinking.
>>>
>>> Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a
>>> lot of fun.  And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano
>>> isn't a fake car, either.  It's just not the same as a Toyota or a
>>> Honda, for which one can expect to pay a bit more.
>>>
>>> --Constance Warner
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
>> mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
>> Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
>> Ozark, AL  SL 82
>>
>>
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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Constance Warner]

Shopping with a budget and a list?  I shop with a wing and a prayer.   
Car dealers [and other purveyors of big-ticket items] would hate me,  
because if something costs more than I can afford [most of the time,  
BTW] I just don't buy.  The purchase of a Mac laptop [I do have a  
relatively new one now] is something that was planned for, and  
schemed for, for years before I FINALLY got it.  Before that, my  
laptops were used [including my first Mac laptop, my beloved $25  
clamshell]; one was rescued FROM THE TRASH--I got there minutes  
before the cleaning crew would have chucked it into the trash bin on  
the cleaning cart.  [No, the cleaners--whom I had gotten to know  
fairly well--couldn't have used the computer themselves.]


My point is that Lady Shopright COULD have had  a Mac laptop, IF she  
hadn't wanted to pay a Wal-Mart discount price for a fancy, premium  
new machine.  Which is pretty unrealistic--if she had done 5 minutes'  
worth of research on the Net, she would have known that.  No need for  
even a pretend visit to the Apple Store.


--Constance Warner

On Mar 30, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:

Constance I am not sure how you shop but I shop with a budget and a  
list.


I have a preconceived idea of what I need and want before I go  
shopping.  Ever go to a grocery store without a list?  How much do  
you spend without a list versus with a list.


When I go shopping for a car I have a budget and a needs list.  (4  
door, automatic (I like clutches but my wife dose not) power seats,  
power windows etc.)


If I did not find a car within my budget I either revise my budget  
or I revise my needs list.


Car dealers love folks like you because they can over sell a car to  
you because you will take what they tell you, you need.


By the way I will not pay more for a foreign car just because it is  
foreign.  It better give me a lot more for my buck than a domestic  
car or I am not buying it.


I have owned a couple of foreign cars but European cars not  
Japanese.  (I am not prejudiced as I realize that most American  
cars sold are multi national cars.  I have just been bitten by  
repair facilities over charging for fixing foreign cars.)


Price is at one point important, but at another point just part of  
the equation.


The point of the Ad (it was not a documentary it is placed as an  
ad, that is like calling these paid advertisements on TV  
documentaries.) was that you could not buy a Mac Notebook for under  
$1,000.00.  That was the main point they wanted to  make.  All  
sorts of assumptions have been made on what they were trying to  
say.  But you know what they say about assumptions. :-)


Stewart


At 09:00 AM 3/30/2009, you wrote:

I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and
requirements is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not
organize itself according to our wishes.  If she's even thinking of
buying a Mac [which from context it's clear that she's NOT]  she
needs to look at Macs overall--quality, price, everything.  If price
is the only criterion, well, that's her choice; but if she wants a
Mac at an unrealistically low price--well, that's just wishful  
thinking.


Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a
lot of fun.  And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano
isn't a fake car, either.  It's just not the same as a Toyota or a
Honda, for which one can expect to pay a bit more.

--Constance Warner




Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Actually the better choice right now is the netbooks for classroom notes etc.

They are light very portable and not a huge footprint.

I was in Target the other day and they had a closeout on a Linux ASUS 
netbook for 212.00.


Those truly are the portable choice right now.  Download your stuff 
to a external and then use it on a desktop or a 17" notebook.


Stewart




At 08:52 AM 3/31/2009, you wrote:

No - I am saying, as one with decades professionally in and out of
academic environments, that the overwhelming majority of classroom
settings are inhospitable to both the physical profile and battery
life of a 17 inch laptop.  A smaller laptop that will actually fit on
a standard class chair/desk, especially one in a lecture hall, is a
vastly superior choice for what you will be doing in a classroom
setting.  Back at home or dorm where there is more room you can get an
even bigger monitor and an actual real keyboard with numeric keypad
for whatever the need is.  The best of both worlds.

Thus, by first rationally analyzing the problem, you end up with a
better solution.  In this case it could be PC or Mac depending on the
software needed.

Matthew


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
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Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Matthew Taylor]

No - I am saying, as one with decades professionally in and out of  
academic environments, that the overwhelming majority of classroom  
settings are inhospitable to both the physical profile and battery  
life of a 17 inch laptop.  A smaller laptop that will actually fit on  
a standard class chair/desk, especially one in a lecture hall, is a  
vastly superior choice for what you will be doing in a classroom  
setting.  Back at home or dorm where there is more room you can get an  
even bigger monitor and an actual real keyboard with numeric keypad  
for whatever the need is.  The best of both worlds.


Thus, by first rationally analyzing the problem, you end up with a  
better solution.  In this case it could be PC or Mac depending on the  
software needed.


Matthew


On Mar 30, 2009, at 10:58 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:


- I need a decent-size screen and a real keyboard.


Not in class you don't.  At home you use a real keyboard and any of a
number of inexpensive flat panel monitors.


Once again, you're telling me what I need and don't need, which has  
been the
basic McFan response here. The response is not, "Right, Apple  
doesn't have
that at this point, I wish they did", it's "Gawd, you're just too  
stupid to
know your own needs, so we'll tell you what they are." This is  
pretty much

the definition of "hubris."

Why is mighty Apple unable to produce a $699 laptop (especially when  
they

don't even have to pay for the OS that sits on it)?


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Now you are talking!  :-)

Stewart


At 09:39 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote:

>Yeah it is called chopped steak!

Extra Value Meal?


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

> The requirements were artificially contrived to exclude 
> a very good and appropriate computer that Apple does make
> that competes with the 8-pound laptop.

Right, the need to be able to take the machine with you is unbelievably
artificial. How ridiculous. Nobody in the real world needs to take their
computers with them, ever.

Are you laughing when you write this claptrap? Seriously.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[John Duncan Yoyo]

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote:

> She wanted a LAPTOP!!!
>
> Do you not understand that some people need a machine they can use in the
> classroom, or on a plane, or working from their hotel room when traveling.
> Surely you are not ignorant of the many reasons for the use of a laptop.
>
> Why do you repeated tell her she can't have one?


Well she could have a laptop running MAC OSX for under $1K.   It would of
course be a hackintosh.  If she were happy with a netbook then she could
just pull it off for under $500 including buying OSX.5.  That M$ gets some
money, Apple gets some money and MSI or dell or whoever gets some money.

-- 
John Duncan Yoyo
---o)


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

> >> You forgot to insist that it must be brown.
> >
> >What a silly, meaningless response this is.
> 
> I have this image of Tom sitting at home being deliberately obtuse,
> seeing how much shit he can stir up on this list. It's really not worth
> it to play his games.

I know. It has occurred to me more than once that if this were anyplace
else, the dreaded "tr*ll" word would have come up long ago. It's hard to
come up with a different explanation for some of the more egregious items
(such as, iMac is suitable for use on an airplane, and only weightlifters
are strong enough to carry an HP laptop).


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[mike]

That's true, MS did stack the deck to artificially exclude apple..I mean she
wanted a portable computer and Apple doesn't have one of those...she wanted
a reasonable price, and we KNOW Apple doesn't have reasonable prices.  Man
how dishonest!  Anyone needing a portable just buy an imac and lug that one
around everywhere...we swear, it will work. :)

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >Now you get the point of the commercial! She couldn't seriously consider
> >a Mac, as there were zero options, given her budget and requirements.
>
> Now you don't get the point. The requirements were artificially contrived
> to exclude a very good and appropriate computer that Apple does make that
> competes with the 8-pound laptop. The Apple offering even comes with a
> bigger screen and a full set of software. The $999 20-inch iMac is what
> she should have bought.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Eric S. Sande]

Constance, if she only has $1,000, she only has $1,000.


Since Microsoft bought the computer for her she now has
$1000 and a computer.

This guy will GIVE her a 17" screen G4 Macbook.

http://i.gizmodo.com/5187031/lauren-we-have-someone-whod-like-to-talk-to-you

If she sells the one Microsoft bought her for $400, she now has
$1400 and a G4 Macbook.

Not too shabby.

She could put the $1400 in a Roth IRA.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[katan]

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:46:08 -0400, Chris Dunford wrote:

>> >Please point out what solution to this set of needs Apple provides:
>> 
>> You forgot to insist that it must be brown.
>
>What a silly, meaningless response this is.

I have this image of Tom sitting at home being deliberately obtuse,
seeing how much shit he can stir up on this list. It's really not worth
it to play his games.

--
   R:\katan


Tea. . .Earl Grey. . .Hot


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Can walk into a store and buy it off the shelf?

Don't try this at Giant or Safeway.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Yeah it is called chopped steak!

Extra Value Meal?


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Now, if Apple wants to run a commercial where someone is looking for a
>PC and is sold on the Mac's features and buys one. . .fine! It's really
>unrealistic to expect Microsoft to pay for an Apple commercial.

I don't expect them to. I do expect them to make a better case for 
getting a PC. What is so much fun about this commercial is the huge 
number of things that are wrong with it.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>You really just don't seem to get that you can't take your iMac to class or
>on a plane, do you? Is it THAT difficult a concept?

You really just don't seem to get that carrying around an 8-pound big and 
bulky is a misery. Even more miserable than using Vista.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Please point out what solution to this set of needs Apple provides:

You forgot to insist that it must be brown.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Steve at Verizon]

She wanted a LAPTOP!!!

Do you not understand that some people need a machine they can use in 
the classroom, or on a plane, or working from their hotel room when 
traveling. Surely you are not ignorant of the many reasons for the use 
of a laptop.


Why do you repeated tell her she can't have one?

Tom Piwowar wrote:
Now you get the point of the commercial! She couldn't seriously consider 
a Mac, as there were zero options, given her budget and requirements. 



Now you don't get the point. The requirements were artificially contrived 
to exclude a very good and appropriate computer that Apple does make that 
competes with the 8-pound laptop. The Apple offering even comes with a 
bigger screen and a full set of software. The $999 20-inch iMac is what 
she should have bought.



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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Steve at Verizon]

Tom, read the subject line!

Tom Piwowar wrote:

Constance, if she only has $1,000, she only has $1,000.



20-inch iMac is $999 at the Apple Online Store today. Right on the home 
page.



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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Matthew Taylor]

On Mar 30, 2009, at 9:33 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:


Speaking only for myself I start with a list of:

1.  What capabilities I need.
2.  What capabilities I want.
3.  What capabilities would be nice.


That is exactly the point. You don't start off saying I need a
"laptop." You start with capabilities and needs.


Yes, and if your needs include taking your computer to class or on  
the road,
the very first conclusion one might reach is "iMac is not the  
solution".


Please point out what solution to this set of needs Apple provides:

- I need to take my computer to class.


Refurbished Macbook - $849


- I need a decent-size screen and a real keyboard.


Not in class you don't.  At home you use a real keyboard and any of a  
number of inexpensive flat panel monitors.


- I can afford $1,000 and no more. Less would be real nice.

We're all waiting.


There you go - you get a solid reliable highly portable machine, and  
at home you have an even larger screen and a full keyboard.


Matthew





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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

> >Speaking only for myself I start with a list of:
> >
> >1.  What capabilities I need.
> >2.  What capabilities I want.
> >3.  What capabilities would be nice.
> 
> That is exactly the point. You don't start off saying I need a
> "laptop." You start with capabilities and needs.

Yes, and if your needs include taking your computer to class or on the road,
the very first conclusion one might reach is "iMac is not the solution".  

Please point out what solution to this set of needs Apple provides:

- I need to take my computer to class.
- I need a decent-size screen and a real keyboard.
- I can afford $1,000 and no more. Less would be real nice.

We're all waiting.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[katan]

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 02:05:09 -0400, Constance Warner wrote:

>Well, if she started out her quest [for a laptop] with a set of  
>inflexible requirements that the real world might not be able to  
>meet--including parts of the real world like computer stores--she's  
>limited her options and determined the outcome of her shopping trip  
>before she's even started.

Okay, really. It's a *Microsoft* commercial. It may not be very good,
and she could have bought a better computer, but if she actually
*bought* a Mac, it would make the Seinfeld/Gates commercial look like
shear genius! Why do the cool people think it should have any other
outcome.

Now, if Apple wants to run a commercial where someone is looking for a
PC and is sold on the Mac's features and buys one. . .fine! It's really
unrealistic to expect Microsoft to pay for an Apple commercial.

--
   R:\katan


Tea. . .Earl Grey. . .Hot


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

> >Constance, if she only has $1,000, she only has $1,000.
> 
> 20-inch iMac is $999 at the Apple Online Store today. Right on the home
> page.

You really just don't seem to get that you can't take your iMac to class or
on a plane, do you? Is it THAT difficult a concept?


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Yeah it is called chopped steak!

Stewart


At 07:23 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote:

>Constance I am not sure how you shop but I shop with a budget and a list.
>I have a preconceived idea of what I need and want before I go
>shopping.  Ever go to a grocery store without a list?  How much do
>you spend without a list versus with a list.

Do you go shopping for a steak dinner with a $2 budget, buy salt and
pepper, then expect the steak to show up on its own?  Without considering
the total cost you are being very unrealistic.


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mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[DBCfour]

Can walk into a store and buy it off the shelf?
 
Donna
 
 
In a message dated 3/30/2009 8:43:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
t...@tjpa.com writes:

>Constance, if she only has $1,000, she only has  $1,000.

20-inch iMac is $999 at the Apple Online Store today. Right on  the home 
page.

**A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220439616x1201372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID
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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Constance, if she only has $1,000, she only has $1,000.

20-inch iMac is $999 at the Apple Online Store today. Right on the home 
page.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[b_s-wilk]

Constance I am not sure how you shop but I shop with a budget and a 
list.


I have a preconceived idea of what I need and want before I go 
shopping.  Ever go to a grocery store without a list?  How much do 
you spend without a list versus with a list.


When I go shopping for a car I have a budget and a needs list.  (4 
door, automatic (I like clutches but my wife dose not) power seats, 
power windows etc.)...



I also have a strict budget and a list or two. I also prefer to buy high
quality products that perform well and will last. That's why I'll buy an
expensive tailored coat instead of one that's produced with style but
without careful attention to detail and quality. Same for
transportation, home, and computers.

The 24" iMac was too expensive for my budget so I saved up until I could
pay cash. Same for our new car. Same for the MacBook. I'm happy that I
bought the used G5 for my husband, too. I don't buy things that I can't
afford. I'm patient. I can wait to buy quality, even when I know it
costs more than the other brands. It's worth it for TCO.

I'm worth it.

Why do we have 3 PCs--two notebooks, one desktop? #1-Free after rebates,
#2-$50 after discount and rebates, #3-free 3-year-old discard. They have
their uses, but are secondary.

Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Now you get the point of the commercial! She couldn't seriously consider 
>a Mac, as there were zero options, given her budget and requirements. 

Now you don't get the point. The requirements were artificially contrived 
to exclude a very good and appropriate computer that Apple does make that 
competes with the 8-pound laptop. The Apple offering even comes with a 
bigger screen and a full set of software. The $999 20-inch iMac is what 
she should have bought.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Jeff Wright]

> Or you say "I need a compact one-piece computer that won't clutter my
> house with computer hardware." For that need an 8-pound "laptop" may be
> just fine. The 20-inch iMac would also be fine.
> 
> My point is that saying it must be a laptop makes as much sense as
> saying
> your MP3 player must be brown. It artificially limits your choices and
> causes you to buy the wrong thing.

Dance, monkey boy, dance.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Constance I am not sure how you shop but I shop with a budget and a list.
>I have a preconceived idea of what I need and want before I go 
>shopping.  Ever go to a grocery store without a list?  How much do 
>you spend without a list versus with a list.

Do you go shopping for a steak dinner with a $2 budget, buy salt and 
pepper, then expect the steak to show up on its own?  Without considering 
the total cost you are being very unrealistic.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Speaking only for myself I start with a list of:
>
>1.  What capabilities I need.
>2.  What capabilities I want.
>3.  What capabilities would be nice.

That is exactly the point. You don't start off saying I need a "laptop." 
You start with capabilities and needs.

You say "I need a small, light computer I can carry around." Then when 
you are presented with an 8-pound "laptop" you say "No, no, no." 

Or you say "I need a compact one-piece computer that won't clutter my 
house with computer hardware." For that need an 8-pound "laptop" may be 
just fine. The 20-inch iMac would also be fine.

My point is that saying it must be a laptop makes as much sense as saying 
your MP3 player must be brown. It artificially limits your choices and 
causes you to buy the wrong thing.

P.S. Today Apple's online store is offering a 20-inch iMac on clearence 
for $999.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

:-)

Stewart


At 02:19 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote:

Rev...they aren't *macs*, they are crap...bottom feeder hardware..oh wait I
mean scum sucking bottom feeder hardware.  At least to our friends on the
other side.




Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[mike]

Rev...they aren't *macs*, they are crap...bottom feeder hardware..oh wait I
mean scum sucking bottom feeder hardware.  At least to our friends on the
other side.

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall <
popoz...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Constance I can go to Wal-Marts site right now and buy a Dell Studio 17"
> laptop which is their latest model and available for under $1K.
>
> And yes I do know Dells and own three of them right now.   I have found
> them to be virtually problem free.
>
> Stewart
>
>
> At 11:23 AM 3/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>> You don't have to be rich to afford a Mac.  But to demand the LATEST
>> model, 17" laptop, for a Wal-Mart discount price?   THAT'S unrealistic.
>>
>> --Constance Warner
>>
>
> Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
> mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
> Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
> Ozark, AL  SL 82
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Matthew Taylor]

Speaking only for myself I start with a list of:

1.  What capabilities I need.
2.  What capabilities I want.
3.  What capabilities would be nice.


Then I figure out what it costs to get first 1, then to add on 2, then  
to add on 3.  Only at that point do I decide what I am willing to  
spend to get those things and if there is a match.  New vs. used is  
way down near the bottom of 3.


I would say that in the MS add, *NEW* and *SHINY* were at the top of  
the list.


Matthew

On Mar 30, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:

Constance I am not sure how you shop but I shop with a budget and a  
list.


I have a preconceived idea of what I need and want before I go  
shopping.  Ever go to a grocery store without a list?  How much do  
you spend without a list versus with a list.


When I go shopping for a car I have a budget and a needs list.  (4  
door, automatic (I like clutches but my wife dose not) power seats,  
power windows etc.)


If I did not find a car within my budget I either revise my budget  
or I revise my needs list.


Car dealers love folks like you because they can over sell a car to  
you because you will take what they tell you, you need.


By the way I will not pay more for a foreign car just because it is  
foreign.  It better give me a lot more for my buck than a domestic  
car or I am not buying it.


I have owned a couple of foreign cars but European cars not  
Japanese.  (I am not prejudiced as I realize that most American cars  
sold are multi national cars.  I have just been bitten by repair  
facilities over charging for fixing foreign cars.)


Price is at one point important, but at another point just part of  
the equation.


The point of the Ad (it was not a documentary it is placed as an ad,  
that is like calling these paid advertisements on TV documentaries.)  
was that you could not buy a Mac Notebook for under $1,000.00.  That  
was the main point they wanted to  make.  All sorts of assumptions  
have been made on what they were trying to say.  But you know what  
they say about assumptions. :-)


Stewart


At 09:00 AM 3/30/2009, you wrote:

I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and
requirements is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not
organize itself according to our wishes.  If she's even thinking of
buying a Mac [which from context it's clear that she's NOT]  she
needs to look at Macs overall--quality, price, everything.  If price
is the only criterion, well, that's her choice; but if she wants a
Mac at an unrealistically low price--well, that's just wishful  
thinking.


Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a
lot of fun.  And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano
isn't a fake car, either.  It's just not the same as a Toyota or a
Honda, for which one can expect to pay a bit more.

--Constance Warner




Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Constance I can go to Wal-Marts site right now and buy a Dell Studio 
17" laptop which is their latest model and available for under $1K.


And yes I do know Dells and own three of them right now.   I have 
found them to be virtually problem free.


Stewart


At 11:23 AM 3/30/2009, you wrote:

You don't have to be rich to afford a Mac.  But to demand the LATEST
model, 17" laptop, for a Wal-Mart discount price?   THAT'S unrealistic.

--Constance Warner


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[mike]

Again, changing the facts won't win your argument.

She got what she wanted, for the price she wanted...just because your
irritated it wasn't a mac doesn't mean she didn't.

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Constance Warner  wrote:

>
>
> You don't have to be rich to afford a Mac.  But to demand the LATEST model,
> 17" laptop, for a Wal-Mart discount price?   THAT'S unrealistic.
>
> --Constance Warner
>
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2009, at 10:39 AM, mike wrote:
>
>  Constance, when you go shopping are you saying you have ZERO criteria?
>> NONE?  You must be unbelievably rich.  For the rest of us who have normal
>> jobs, make normal amounts of money...money does have to come into play at
>> some point.
>>
>> Not everyone can live with the 'money is no object' attitude some have on
>> this list.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Constance Warner 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and
>>> requirements
>>> is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not organize itself
>>> according to our wishes.  If she's even thinking of buying a Mac [which
>>> from
>>> context it's clear that she's NOT]  she needs to look at Macs
>>> overall--quality, price, everything.  If price is the only criterion,
>>> well,
>>> that's her choice; but if she wants a Mac at an unrealistically low
>>> price--well, that's just wishful thinking.
>>>
>>> Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a lot
>>> of
>>> fun.  And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano isn't a fake
>>> car, either.  It's just not the same as a Toyota or a Honda, for which
>>> one
>>> can expect to pay a bit more.
>>>
>>> --Constance Warner
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 30, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Chris Dunford wrote:
>>>
>>>  Well, if she started out her quest [for a laptop] with a set of
>>>
 inflexible requirements that the real world might not be able to
> meet--including parts of the real world like computer stores--she's
> limited her options and determined the outcome of her shopping trip
> before she's even started.
>
> It's like saying, "I want a flawless one-carat stone, but I require
> that the ring should cost no more than $100."  Guess what?  You're
> getting cubic zirconia!
>
>
 Constance, wanting a laptop for under $1,000 is neither unreasonable nor
 impossible. The parts of the real world that are unable to meet her
 requirements are not "computer stores" but "Apple stores".

 As to cubic zirconia, the analogy doesn't hold because, your personal
 opinion of it notwithstanding, her HP is not a fake computer.



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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Constance I am not sure how you shop but I shop with a budget and a list.

I have a preconceived idea of what I need and want before I go 
shopping.  Ever go to a grocery store without a list?  How much do 
you spend without a list versus with a list.


When I go shopping for a car I have a budget and a needs list.  (4 
door, automatic (I like clutches but my wife dose not) power seats, 
power windows etc.)


If I did not find a car within my budget I either revise my budget or 
I revise my needs list.


Car dealers love folks like you because they can over sell a car to 
you because you will take what they tell you, you need.


By the way I will not pay more for a foreign car just because it is 
foreign.  It better give me a lot more for my buck than a domestic 
car or I am not buying it.


I have owned a couple of foreign cars but European cars not 
Japanese.  (I am not prejudiced as I realize that most American cars 
sold are multi national cars.  I have just been bitten by repair 
facilities over charging for fixing foreign cars.)


Price is at one point important, but at another point just part of 
the equation.


The point of the Ad (it was not a documentary it is placed as an ad, 
that is like calling these paid advertisements on TV documentaries.) 
was that you could not buy a Mac Notebook for under $1,000.00.  That 
was the main point they wanted to  make.  All sorts of assumptions 
have been made on what they were trying to say.  But you know what 
they say about assumptions. :-)


Stewart


At 09:00 AM 3/30/2009, you wrote:

I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and
requirements is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not
organize itself according to our wishes.  If she's even thinking of
buying a Mac [which from context it's clear that she's NOT]  she
needs to look at Macs overall--quality, price, everything.  If price
is the only criterion, well, that's her choice; but if she wants a
Mac at an unrealistically low price--well, that's just wishful thinking.

Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a
lot of fun.  And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano
isn't a fake car, either.  It's just not the same as a Toyota or a
Honda, for which one can expect to pay a bit more.

--Constance Warner




Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Steve at Verizon]

Now you get the point of the commercial! She couldn't seriously consider 
a Mac, as there were zero options, given her budget and requirements. 
She obviously didn't know that, else why would she have traveled to the 
Apple Store. So she must have learned that fact there, hence the short 
visit.


That's the message MS is delivering in the commercial. Nothing 
deceptive about that. You may argue that MS stacked the deck by limiting 
her budget to $1000, or her need for a 17" screen, but many laptop 
shoppers want 17" and under $1000, preferably closer to $750.


What would be deceptive would be if MS claims their OS is better than 
the Mac OS.


I am in no way defending MS, only the (il)logic in the arguments against 
this commercial.


Constance Warner wrote:


The unrealistic--and ultimately deceptive--element in this little skit 
is that she ever SERIOUSLY considered a Mac in the first place.


--Constance Warner
On Mar 30, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Chris Dunford wrote:


I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and
requirements is fundamentally unrealistic


Constance, if she only has $1,000, she only has $1,000. No amount of 
"Mac is

better" fattens her wallet. McFans' protest notwithstanding, there is
nothing unrealistic about this. Not everyone who needs a computer can 
afford
McPrices. The cheapest 17" Apple portable isn't just out of her price 
range,

it's *far* out of her price range.

What is fundamentally unrealistic is McFans' apparent belief that it is
foolish to limit what you buy on the basis of how much money you have.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Constance Warner]

Obviously I'm not saying that I or anyone else should have ZERO  
criteria when shopping.  What I am saying is that if you demand  
EVERYTHING you want at a totally unrealistic price, you're going to  
be disappointed.


And as for "money is no object": my first Mac laptop, for which I  
waited MANY years, was a used Clamshell with a total value of $25.  I  
used it gratefully for years.  My next laptop was another used one,  
with a slightly damaged screen.  I didn't have the screen fixed--it  
would have cost far too much--but the computer did everything I  
needed, and I could even do graphics on it, since the screen blemish  
was slight.


You don't have to be rich to afford a Mac.  But to demand the LATEST  
model, 17" laptop, for a Wal-Mart discount price?   THAT'S unrealistic.


--Constance Warner


On Mar 30, 2009, at 10:39 AM, mike wrote:


Constance, when you go shopping are you saying you have ZERO criteria?
NONE?  You must be unbelievably rich.  For the rest of us who have  
normal
jobs, make normal amounts of money...money does have to come into  
play at

some point.

Not everyone can live with the 'money is no object' attitude some  
have on

this list.

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Constance Warner  
 wrote:


I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and  
requirements

is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not organize itself
according to our wishes.  If she's even thinking of buying a Mac  
[which from

context it's clear that she's NOT]  she needs to look at Macs
overall--quality, price, everything.  If price is the only  
criterion, well,

that's her choice; but if she wants a Mac at an unrealistically low
price--well, that's just wishful thinking.

Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and  
a lot of
fun.  And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano isn't  
a fake
car, either.  It's just not the same as a Toyota or a Honda, for  
which one

can expect to pay a bit more.

--Constance Warner



On Mar 30, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Chris Dunford wrote:

 Well, if she started out her quest [for a laptop] with a set of

inflexible requirements that the real world might not be able to
meet--including parts of the real world like computer stores--she's
limited her options and determined the outcome of her shopping trip
before she's even started.

It's like saying, "I want a flawless one-carat stone, but I require
that the ring should cost no more than $100."  Guess what?  You're
getting cubic zirconia!



Constance, wanting a laptop for under $1,000 is neither  
unreasonable nor

impossible. The parts of the real world that are unable to meet her
requirements are not "computer stores" but "Apple stores".

As to cubic zirconia, the analogy doesn't hold because, your  
personal

opinion of it notwithstanding, her HP is not a fake computer.


 
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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Constance Warner]

If Lady Shopright has only $1K to buy a computer with, and economy is  
her SOLE AND MAJOR consideration, she can get a refurb Mac laptop for  
less--probably a 17" to boot.   When making a purchasing decision,  
there is always a balancing of factors.  If Lady Shopright insists on  
17", laptop instead of desktop, absolutely the latest model, all the  
bells and whistles, no compromises here, then she has probably priced  
herself out of the Mac market.


The unrealistic--and ultimately deceptive--element in this little  
skit is that she ever SERIOUSLY considered a Mac in the first place.


--Constance Warner
On Mar 30, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Chris Dunford wrote:


I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and
requirements is fundamentally unrealistic


Constance, if she only has $1,000, she only has $1,000. No amount  
of "Mac is

better" fattens her wallet. McFans' protest notwithstanding, there is
nothing unrealistic about this. Not everyone who needs a computer  
can afford
McPrices. The cheapest 17" Apple portable isn't just out of her  
price range,

it's *far* out of her price range.

What is fundamentally unrealistic is McFans' apparent belief that  
it is

foolish to limit what you buy on the basis of how much money you have.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

> I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and
> requirements is fundamentally unrealistic 

Constance, if she only has $1,000, she only has $1,000. No amount of "Mac is
better" fattens her wallet. McFans' protest notwithstanding, there is
nothing unrealistic about this. Not everyone who needs a computer can afford
McPrices. The cheapest 17" Apple portable isn't just out of her price range,
it's *far* out of her price range.

What is fundamentally unrealistic is McFans' apparent belief that it is
foolish to limit what you buy on the basis of how much money you have.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[mike]

Constance, when you go shopping are you saying you have ZERO criteria?
NONE?  You must be unbelievably rich.  For the rest of us who have normal
jobs, make normal amounts of money...money does have to come into play at
some point.

Not everyone can live with the 'money is no object' attitude some have on
this list.

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Constance Warner  wrote:

> I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and requirements
> is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not organize itself
> according to our wishes.  If she's even thinking of buying a Mac [which from
> context it's clear that she's NOT]  she needs to look at Macs
> overall--quality, price, everything.  If price is the only criterion, well,
> that's her choice; but if she wants a Mac at an unrealistically low
> price--well, that's just wishful thinking.
>
> Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a lot of
> fun.  And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano isn't a fake
> car, either.  It's just not the same as a Toyota or a Honda, for which one
> can expect to pay a bit more.
>
> --Constance Warner
>
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Chris Dunford wrote:
>
>  Well, if she started out her quest [for a laptop] with a set of
>>> inflexible requirements that the real world might not be able to
>>> meet--including parts of the real world like computer stores--she's
>>> limited her options and determined the outcome of her shopping trip
>>> before she's even started.
>>>
>>> It's like saying, "I want a flawless one-carat stone, but I require
>>> that the ring should cost no more than $100."  Guess what?  You're
>>> getting cubic zirconia!
>>>
>>
>> Constance, wanting a laptop for under $1,000 is neither unreasonable nor
>> impossible. The parts of the real world that are unable to meet her
>> requirements are not "computer stores" but "Apple stores".
>>
>> As to cubic zirconia, the analogy doesn't hold because, your personal
>> opinion of it notwithstanding, her HP is not a fake computer.
>>
>>
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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

> For this class of computer Apple has a better idea and it 
> is the 20-inch iMac.

Jeff is right, this whole thing is too funny for words. The idea of carting
a 20" iMac to class or Starbucks, along with the 20-foot orange extension
cord required to plug it in somewhere, well, stop it, you're killing me. I
should be paying for this, it's better than Seinfeld. The only thing I can
think of that might be funnier would be to watch her trying to set that
thing up on her tray table on a Southwest flight to LAX.

Talk about your reality distortion fields.

> You keep persisting with the "it has to be brown" argument. 
> This is a false way to stack the deck.

You keep persisting with the "it has to be shiny" argument. This is not only
a false way to stack the deck, it leaves poor little Lauren with no
computer.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Constance Warner]

I still say, that going shopping with preconceived notions and  
requirements is fundamentally unrealistic. The real world does not  
organize itself according to our wishes.  If she's even thinking of  
buying a Mac [which from context it's clear that she's NOT]  she  
needs to look at Macs overall--quality, price, everything.  If price  
is the only criterion, well, that's her choice; but if she wants a  
Mac at an unrealistically low price--well, that's just wishful thinking.


Cubic zirconia isn't fake anything; it's real cubic zirconia, and a  
lot of fun.  And an HP isn't a fake computer, but then a Tata Nano  
isn't a fake car, either.  It's just not the same as a Toyota or a  
Honda, for which one can expect to pay a bit more.


--Constance Warner


On Mar 30, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Chris Dunford wrote:


Well, if she started out her quest [for a laptop] with a set of
inflexible requirements that the real world might not be able to
meet--including parts of the real world like computer stores--she's
limited her options and determined the outcome of her shopping trip
before she's even started.

It's like saying, "I want a flawless one-carat stone, but I require
that the ring should cost no more than $100."  Guess what?  You're
getting cubic zirconia!


Constance, wanting a laptop for under $1,000 is neither  
unreasonable nor

impossible. The parts of the real world that are unable to meet her
requirements are not "computer stores" but "Apple stores".

As to cubic zirconia, the analogy doesn't hold because, your personal
opinion of it notwithstanding, her HP is not a fake computer.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Constance, wanting a laptop for under $1,000 is neither unreasonable nor
>impossible. The parts of the real world that are unable to meet her
>requirements are not "computer stores" but "Apple stores". 

You are a victim of the Microsoft reality distortion field.

We have already established that:

1) Lauren is not a big woman.

2) The "laptop" she bought is 2-inches thick and weighs 8 pounds.

To carry around this "laptop" is like walking around with two six packs 
of beer (and never drinking them). Lauren is not going to do that (unless 
she is pledging). What she bought is a category of laptop that is not 
intended to be portable. It is in fact a minature desktop.

For this class of computer Apple has a better idea and it is the 20-inch 
iMac.

If Lauren wanted to use a notebook in class the "laptop" she bought will 
not fit well on a typical classroom desk. And she would soon tire of 
carrying around a bulky 8-pound box.

The iMac with the 13-inch screen would have been an ideal size for class 
and since it weighs less than 1 six pack it would not have been difficult 
to carry.

Nope. Lauren made a big mistake.

We have been played.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

> Well, if she started out her quest [for a laptop] with a set of
> inflexible requirements that the real world might not be able to
> meet--including parts of the real world like computer stores--she's
> limited her options and determined the outcome of her shopping trip
> before she's even started.
>
> It's like saying, "I want a flawless one-carat stone, but I require 
> that the ring should cost no more than $100."  Guess what?  You're 
> getting cubic zirconia!  

Constance, wanting a laptop for under $1,000 is neither unreasonable nor
impossible. The parts of the real world that are unable to meet her
requirements are not "computer stores" but "Apple stores". 

As to cubic zirconia, the analogy doesn't hold because, your personal
opinion of it notwithstanding, her HP is not a fake computer.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Constance Warner]

Well, if she started out her quest [for a laptop] with a set of  
inflexible requirements that the real world might not be able to  
meet--including parts of the real world like computer stores--she's  
limited her options and determined the outcome of her shopping trip  
before she's even started.


It's like saying, "I want a flawless one-carat stone, but I require  
that the ring should cost no more than $100."  Guess what?  You're  
getting cubic zirconia!  Your requirements mean that you never  
seriously considered a diamond, regardless of what you told yourself.


In fact, I've got a ring with a cubic zirconia in it, and I like it.   
I also got a nice Mac laptop last year, and I like that, too.  I  
waited for quite some time before I got it, because I didn't have  
unrealistic ideas of what macs--or diamonds--should cost.  The Mac  
was worth waiting for, even though it cost more than a low-end PC  
[though it actually cost less than the sleek light-weight PC that was  
its only rival, as far as I was concerned].


--Constance Warner



Just won't give up, eh? You seem to always omit one of her  
requirements,
accidentally I am sure. She specified a laptop. Last I checked,  
iMac was a

desktop. Not very convenient for carrying to her busboy classes at the
community college.

Not to mention that even at $1099 it's $400 more than what she  
eventually

bought. Hardly "mere quibbling."

Can you get a 17" laptop from Apple for $1000? Yes or no?


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Jordan]

I can't believe this has gone on so long.
This was a dumb ad, based on the thinnest of premises, designed to lure 
the simplest of sheeple.


katan wrote:


She wanted a Mac? In a *Microsoft* commercial? I believe the point of
her going to an Apple store was to show that there isn't much choice
there for less than $1K. She probably knew that going in.


  



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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

> Tell the truth. A real person would have bought the iMac with a much
> larger 20-inch screen and the software needed to get work done.

Tell the truth. You're unable to admit that real people might want or need a
laptop because that would require you to finally answer the question, which
you simply cannot bring yourself to do. 

You've pointedly refused to notice that you can't take your fab iMac to
class, to Starbucks, or on Metro. 

Well, I guess you can, if all you want to do is wave it around, hoping that
people will admire your shiny (though unusable) machine, and whisper to each
other about your wealth of common sense.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[mike]

And some people wonder why mac users are thought of as elitist snobs.

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

>
>
> Tell the truth. A real person would have bought the iMac with a much
> larger 20-inch screen and the software needed to get work done.
>
>
>


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Just won't give up, eh? You seem to always omit one of her requirements,
>accidentally I am sure. She specified a laptop. Last I checked, iMac was a
>desktop. Not very convenient for carrying to her busboy classes at the
>community college.

Next you'll have her running around town looking for an MP3 player, but 
it has to be old and *brown.*

>Not to mention that even at $1099 it's $400 more than what she eventually
>bought. Hardly "mere quibbling."

$400 more if she can get her work done with NO SOFTWARE!

Of course WFBs will only want to fiddle with the buggy OS and never get 
to the point where they need software to get real work done.

Tell the truth. A real person would have bought the iMac with a much 
larger 20-inch screen and the software needed to get work done.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

>>A laptop (also known as a notebook) is a personal computer designed for 
>>mobile use small enough to sit on one's lap.
>
>And MP3 players must be brown.

An unusually bizarre comment, even for you. You are saying that laptops do
NOT have to be small enough to sit on one's lap?

> People buy PC laptops because PC desktops are so dorky. Apple provides
> MORE CHOICES. A different class of machine that is both cool and not
> expensive. MS artificially excluded this entire class of computer and
> then foisted off the lie that Lauren had more choices. Such BS.
> 
> She should have bought the 20-inch iMac. Friday evening I saw a woman
> with one on the Metro (no it was not turned on).

Speaking of things artificial, I'd love to see all those smart,
discriminating students who take notes in class on their 20" iMacs. I hope
all the classrooms have plenty of outlets. And extension cords for all.

Since you decline to answer the "yes or no?" question that has been posed
more than once, we're all going to take this apparent suggestion that people
take desktops to class as a tacit admission that $1,000 big screen Apple
notebooks do not exist.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[mike]

Yes, there is a lot of BS.  BTW, MS doesn't make computers.  So far I think
you've got just about everything wrong.

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >A laptop (also known as a notebook) is a personal computer designed for
> >mobile use small enough to sit on one's lap.
>
> And MP3 players must be brown.
>
> People buy PC laptops because PC desktops are so dorky. Apple provides
> MORE CHOICES. A different class of machine that is both cool and not
> expensive. MS artificially excluded this entire class of computer and
> then foisted off the lie that Lauren had more choices. Such BS.
>
> She should have bought the 20-inch iMac. Friday evening I saw a woman
> with one on the Metro (no it was not turned on).
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>A laptop (also known as a notebook) is a personal computer designed for
>mobile use small enough to sit on one's lap.

And MP3 players must be brown.

People buy PC laptops because PC desktops are so dorky. Apple provides 
MORE CHOICES. A different class of machine that is both cool and not 
expensive. MS artificially excluded this entire class of computer and 
then foisted off the lie that Lauren had more choices. Such BS.

She should have bought the 20-inch iMac. Friday evening I saw a woman 
with one on the Metro (no it was not turned on).


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[mike]

Just because you don't move your portable doesn't mean no one does.  I've
got four close friends who live their lives from their laptops, 3 of them
don't even have desktop units at home, the laptop goes everywhere.  Two of
those guys are mac guys.

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >You've sold me! One thing though: What's the battery life on that?
>
> Let's be real here. Most laptops are never disconnected from the mains.
> This causes their batteries to rot so portable use is precluded.
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[mike]

hmmm...yes I can.

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >Unbiased like...you?  You *are* funny.
>
> Here I sit with a Mac and a PC side by side like cats and dogs. I am
> highly proficient with both. Can you say the same?
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>You've sold me! One thing though: What's the battery life on that?

Let's be real here. Most laptops are never disconnected from the mains. 
This causes their batteries to rot so portable use is precluded.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Unbiased like...you?  You *are* funny.

Here I sit with a Mac and a PC side by side like cats and dogs. I am 
highly proficient with both. Can you say the same?


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

> >Fine. But they still wouldn't sell her what she wanted. A 
> >laptop with a 17' monitor for less than $1K
> 
> She could have bought an iMac with a 20-inch screen for 
> $1099 by flashing her college ID. That is so close that 
> the difference is mere quibbling.

Just won't give up, eh? You seem to always omit one of her requirements,
accidentally I am sure. She specified a laptop. Last I checked, iMac was a
desktop. Not very convenient for carrying to her busboy classes at the
community college.

Not to mention that even at $1099 it's $400 more than what she eventually
bought. Hardly "mere quibbling."

Can you get a 17" laptop from Apple for $1000? Yes or no?


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[katan]

On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 15:37:28 -0400, Tom Piwowar wrote:

>She could have bought an iMac with a 20-inch screen for $1099 by flashing 
>her college ID. That is so close that the difference is mere quibbling.
>
>And the Mac comes with a great suite of software that is an extra cost 
>with the PC.
>
>A real unbiased person would have bought the Mac.

You've sold me! One thing though: What's the battery life on that?

--
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Tea. . .Earl Grey. . .Hot


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[mike]

Unbiased like...you?  You *are* funny.

Lugging around a 20" iMac would be great!  Where is that handle?...

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >Fine. But they still wouldn't sell her what she wanted. A laptop with a
> >17' monitor for less than $1K
>
> She could have bought an iMac with a 20-inch screen for $1099 by flashing
> her college ID. That is so close that the difference is mere quibbling.
>
> And the Mac comes with a great suite of software that is an extra cost
> with the PC.
>
> A real unbiased person would have bought the Mac.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Jeff Wright]

> She could have bought an iMac with a 20-inch screen for $1099 by
> flashing
> her college ID. That is so close that the difference is mere quibbling.

You seem to be confused Thomas, so let me help.

"A laptop (also known as a notebook) is a personal computer designed for
mobile use small enough to sit on one's lap.[1] A laptop includes most of
the typical components of a desktop computer, including a display, a
keyboard, a pointing device (a touchpad, also known as a trackpad, or a
pointing stick), speakers, as well as a battery, into a single small and
light unit. The rechargeable battery required is charged from an AC/DC
adapter (ie, a wall wart) and typically stores enough energy to run the
laptop for several hours."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laptop

> A real unbiased person would have bought the Mac.

A real unbiased person wouldn't have amped up the silliness to the levels
that you have.

I hope that Microsoft makes many, many more of these commercials.  This is
simply too delightful.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>Fine. But they still wouldn't sell her what she wanted. A laptop with a
>17' monitor for less than $1K

She could have bought an iMac with a 20-inch screen for $1099 by flashing 
her college ID. That is so close that the difference is mere quibbling.

And the Mac comes with a great suite of software that is an extra cost 
with the PC.

A real unbiased person would have bought the Mac.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[John Duncan Yoyo]

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:

> > Safeway??  They should be going to Giant where it is cheaper still.
>
> And Wegman's is yet cheaper (and way better).


Wegman's is hit or miss for me.  If it is on sale it's cheaper but for many
things it is more.

>
>
> > Actually I get some food stuffs at Target which is half Giant.
>
> Yes, but it's difficult to find truffle butter at Target.
>

 Eh way too high end.  I just need my Newman's marinara



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John Duncan Yoyo
---o)


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

> Safeway??  They should be going to Giant where it is cheaper still.

And Wegman's is yet cheaper (and way better). 

> Actually I get some food stuffs at Target which is half Giant.

Yes, but it's difficult to find truffle butter at Target.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[katan]

On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:26:12 -0400, Tom Piwowar wrote:

>Perhaps you may have been hoodwinked? This shopper was an actress (a real 
>one: member of the Screen Actors Guild 
>), not a real shopper. We will 
>probably never know how much of the dialog was improv vs. scripted. I'm 
>sure MS has enrolled Lauren in the Witness Protection Program.

Yeah, and. . .? Nowhere in the commercial do they claim she's not an
actress. I'll bet Mr. Whipple didn't really run a grocery store
(although I'm pretty sure he *did* have a thing for the Charmin).

>If Lauren's experience at the Apple Store was like most, she was probably 
>treated very well. The customer service at the Apple Stores is amazing.

Fine. But they still wouldn't sell her what she wanted. A laptop with a
17' monitor for less than $1K

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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[John Duncan Yoyo]

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 11:20 AM, mike  wrote:

> No they go to AJ's and realize they can get the same crap for less at
> Safeway.
>

Safeway??  They should be going to Giant where it is cheaper still.
Actually I get some food stuffs at Target which is half Giant.

Now I've saved enough to get a  Mac.

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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[katan]

On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:53:18 -0400, Eric S. Sande wrote:

>>...without any real comment on the phenomena of the worlds largest software 
>>maker feeling the need to advertise a third party product (an >HP computer 
>>I believe in this case)
>
>Product placement.  Any Apple ad is about hardware, the box is what
>they sell, not the OS.  Windows is worthless without hardware and it
>makes no diff what it runs on.
>
>Presumably HP outbid Dell or Eric's Homebuilt Computers for
>the slot (I wasn't asked).

And she clearly went to Best Buy to get it. Good ting she didn't waste
her money at Circuit City. (-:

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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[mike]

No they go to AJ's and realize they can get the same crap for less at
Safeway.

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >She wanted a Mac? In a *Microsoft* commercial? I believe the point of
> >her going to an Apple store was to show that there isn't much choice
> >there for less than $1K. She probably knew that going in.
>
> Then why did she go there? The buying habits of WFBs are mighty strange.
> If you want to buy groceries do you go to a dentist's office? I suppose
> that with such poor life skills it is no wonder that such people buy
> Vista.
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Tom Piwowar]

>She wanted a Mac? In a *Microsoft* commercial? I believe the point of
>her going to an Apple store was to show that there isn't much choice
>there for less than $1K. She probably knew that going in.

Then why did she go there? The buying habits of WFBs are mighty strange. 
If you want to buy groceries do you go to a dentist's office? I suppose 
that with such poor life skills it is no wonder that such people buy 
Vista.


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Chris Dunford]

>> We aren't going to debate the intelligence of actors are we?
>
> Isn't that an Oxy Moron?
> 
> Stewart

Bad Rev! Bad, bad Rev!


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Re: [CGUYS] Laptop Hunters

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Isn't that an Oxy Moron?

Stewart


At 01:38 AM 3/29/2009, you wrote:

We aren't going to debate the intelligence of actors are we?

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 10:03 PM, katan  wrote:

> On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:09:57 -0400, Tom Piwowar wrote:
>
>
>
> She wanted a Mac? In a *Microsoft* commercial? I believe the point of
> her going to an Apple store was to show that there isn't much choice
> there for less than $1K. She probably knew that going in.
>
>
> --
>   R:\katan


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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