Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
LACROIX Pascal wrote: That RH announce should be a mistake, I realy think it's better if users can see Mandrake in some stores, not especialy in super market, but in some computers-stores. So, only avalable by net and visa : THIS E-STORE IS NOT FOR ME !!! Mandrakestore accepts paypal, transfers and cheques, no ? Eric
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
There is a thread on the club announcement that says that the final iso's will not be released to club members and contributers until Oct. 15? An that it will be via bit torrent? Is this true? Why so long? Why bit torrent? When and where will the contribs be released? On September 24, 2003 04:32 am, Warly wrote: Which means that if no major critical bugs are found in the next few days, it will be considered as final. Thanks to all who have participated in 9.21, the mandrake linux distribution is becoming more and more a community project, and I am really happy with that. When we will be sure these ISOs are really final, that is to say by the end of next week, club members and contributors should have exclusive access to the download edition ISOs. For others ISOs will be freely available worldwide by the end of october.
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wednesday 24 September 2003 22:13, Michael Lothian wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: guess you now can become a member? (which is, if i'm correct, exactly the point of this idea). Will consider doing this. Just to check is there a difference between the normal, silver, gold and platnum options (apart from the obvious price differences) Will probably join as Standard if I decide to being a poor wee student to. Yes, join the Club, to hell with the boxed sets. I'd like a plain DVD mailing as part of my club membership. Also MandrakeClub sounds too amateurish, I'd prefer if it were called a subscription. Silver: DVD/CD-Roms mailed to me for each release. Gold: DVD/CD-Roms mailed to me for each release, and quarterly updates on CD/DVD. Platinum: Boxed set for each release, and quarterly updates on CD/DVD. Mike -- John Allen, Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] MandrakeClub Silver Member.
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Thursday 25 September 2003 02:33, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 19:46, Austin wrote: If you're smart enough to be on the cooker list, you're probably smart enough to install it over the network using urpmi anyway, which is totally allowed. The purpose isn't to punish poor students, but to encourage lazy/greedy/ apathetic yuppies and their spoiled middle-class teenagers to join the club instead of leeching off of everyone's hard work. I'm a lazy, greedy, apathetic middle-class poor student...where do I figure? :D Lazy, greedy, apathetic middle-class?? You've got parents?, right; beg them to subscribe to MandrakeClub, tell them it will help to secure your future in the software industry. PS: I'm a parent, and I'd go for it. -- John Allen, Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] MandrakeClub Silver Member.
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 00:29, Austin wrote: On 09/24/2003 09:32:03 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: One, Mandrake don't make much money on boxes. They pay people to make the boxes, they pay to duplicate the CDs, they pay to print the manuals, they pay for distribution, and they have to sell wholesale to the retailers. So why bother at all then? Where are they selling the boxed sets now? Online only? Why sell them at all? Corporate inertia. I expect they won't be within two years. There's some at MDKsoft who already think dumping boxes is the way to go. Where are they selling them? Online, and I think in some European stores. I expect the money they saved by stopping bothering with the US office, the workers, the distribution and so on is probably more than they made from selling boxes in the US in the FIRST place. Well, until middle-class America and their non-credit-card-holding but free- living-at-home and part-time-job-holding kids start doing all their shopping online, probably the largest market of disposable income in the world is being left untapped. There has to be a way to sell such a cool product to presently-unaware- America, hasn't there? Presently unaware? I think that's a little exaggerated. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Le mer 24/09/2003 à 18:08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : On 24 Sep 2003, Teletchéa Stéphane wrote: (since i don't have a fast connection, and Mdk don't provide CDs of club applications, i have no use of it !), Well, I do not want to deny/judge about your claims. exept for you are saying here: - i am no club member because i have no fast connection and they do not provide cds of club apps anyway, so _i have no use of it_ and you use this as an argument for saying that you would like to have the 9.2 ISO, which is availiable through club? um... guess you now can become a member? (which is, if i'm correct, exactly the point of this idea). If you want 9.2 already, you can just do a ftp/hd install of cooker, or upgrade your 9.1 system to cooker, or upgrade your RC2 to cooker. Or download cooker and create your own isos. d. Hi Danny ! I would like to precise two points : 1 - as i'm French, i'd love to know that MandrakeSoft will survive and become a leader. But, they need to improve their offer for the club. You misread my post about bandwith : at work i have a fast access, home a modem ... I'll leave the work within few months and be back with my own modem. If i subscribe it is for years and i want to benefit from the club. For the moment and i re-claim it ... they don't provide isos of packages from the club. 2 - second i really dislike being held by the company AFTER the job is done. I hope Mandrake will tell for next release what then plan to do BEFORE we go on beta and RC. It is not really about what they are doing now, i perfectly understand the point, but i would like to know it before, like this i don't feel caught by then : when you expect a product by the end of september and it arrives by the end of october it is not the same thing ! Stef -- signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Le mer 24/09/2003 à 21:24, Levi Ramsey a écrit : On Wed Sep 24 10:39 +, _ cosmicflo wrote: Nice ! Who are contributors ? For exemple, am I a contributor (send bugs report, discuss here) ? IIRC, the contributors are those who added their names to the proper page on the Wiki. Hum, have a look at : http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/StephaneT -- signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Ainsi parlait Teletchéa Stéphane : 2 - second i really dislike being held by the company AFTER the job is done. I hope Mandrake will tell for next release what then plan to do BEFORE we go on beta and RC. It is not really about what they are doing now, i perfectly understand the point, but i would like to know it before, like this i don't feel caught by then : when you expect a product by the end of september and it arrives by the end of october it is not the same thing ! If you've been following cooker from a long time, you should be able to see mandrakesoft has a very long established tradition of taking decision first, then eventually explain them thereafter, including to their own emplyees. Just because most developpers usually request cooker advices on technical decision doesn't means management feels compelled to do the same about corporate decisions... -- There is nothing more satisfying that having someone take a shot at you, and miss -- Murphy's Military Laws n°121
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Le jeu 25/09/2003 à 11:14, Guillaume Rousse a écrit : Ainsi parlait Teletchéa Stéphane : 2 - second i really dislike being held by the company AFTER the job is done. I hope Mandrake will tell for next release what then plan to do BEFORE we go on beta and RC. It is not really about what they are doing now, i perfectly understand the point, but i would like to know it before, like this i don't feel caught by then : when you expect a product by the end of september and it arrives by the end of october it is not the same thing ! If you've been following cooker from a long time, you should be able to see mandrakesoft has a very long established tradition of taking decision first, then eventually explain them thereafter, including to their own emplyees. Just because most developpers usually request cooker advices on technical decision doesn't means management feels compelled to do the same about corporate decisions... Exactly, and that's why i would like a little bit more prospective on the way the developpment process will be used. The twiki is a good start, but it always seems that things are 'discovered' ... It left me a very bad feeling in the mouth ... Stef -- signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Guillaume Rousse [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you've been following cooker from a long time, you should be able to see mandrakesoft has a very long established tradition of taking decision first, then eventually explain them thereafter, including to their own emplyees. Btw, that's how most companies work, I think (even if I have no experience in other companies yet ;p). -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On 25 Sep 2003, Teletchéa Stéphane wrote: 2 - second i really dislike being held by the company AFTER the job is done. I hope Mandrake will tell for next release what then plan to do BEFORE we go on beta and RC. It is not really about what they are doing now, i perfectly understand the point, but i would like to know it before, like this i don't feel caught by then : when you expect a product by the end of september and it arrives by the end of october it is not the same thing ! On this point, I tend to agree. It should have been announced earlier. d.
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Ainsi parlait Guillaume Cottenceau : Guillaume Rousse [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you've been following cooker from a long time, you should be able to see mandrakesoft has a very long established tradition of taking decision first, then eventually explain them thereafter, including to their own emplyees. Btw, that's how most companies work, I think Sure. People tend to forget it, and expect mandrakesoft to behave as a nonprofit organisation. (even if I have no experience in other companies yet ;p). Soon, my dear, soon -- Program complexity grows until it exceeds the capability of the programmer who must maintain it -- Thoreau's Theories of Adaption n°8
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Adam Williamson wrote: On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 00:06, Michael Lothian wrote: Heh. How long have you worked there? Ever dealt with newspapers? Or new suppliers? We have this thing called sale or return, man. Big chains often demand new suppliers only supply them with stuff on a sale-or-return basis. The things on sale or return are proprtionally v small compared to the number of products we sell. Everything else is delt with SBO (Sales Based Ordering) Me used to be a stock controller before I became a checkout bunny ;-) Mike
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Guillaume Rousse wrote: Ainsi parlait Guillaume Cottenceau : (even if I have no experience in other companies yet ;p). Soon, my dear, soon Isn't that what one would call 'to give it away'? So, duhh... good luck on the new work /m
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Ainsi parlait Michael Lothian : Me used to be a stock controller before I became a checkout bunny ;-) As the playboy bunnies ? You're walking half-naked in the store to promote computers ? -- Never stand when you can sit, never sit when you can lie down, never stay awake when you can sleep -- Murphy's Bush Fire Brigade Laws n°12
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent - who are contributors
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:39, _ cosmicflo wrote: Who are contributors ? For exemple, am I a contributor (send bugs report, discuss here) ? My purpose here seems to be frightening Warly. Does that count? (-: Cheers; Leon
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:29, Adam Williamson wrote: Or are you just wondering exactly when this will happen, given the delayed release of the 9.1 ISOs? Old habits die hard, don't they? (-: s/9.1/9.2/ Cheers; Leon
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:37, Serge Pluess wrote: One day one lonely box of 8.2 was sitting at Fry's next to lots and lots of boxes of Redhat 9, Suse 8.2, and current versions of Lycoris, Lindows, FreeBSD and NetBSD. Redhat and Suse boxes are usually at the store the day of the official release. And the store said that it doesn't have any preferences, just that they never received any 9.0 nor 9.1 retail boxes, otherwise they would put them on the shelves immediately. Red Hat have just eliminated themselves from this race. They've figured out that the money lies in enterprise and corporate installation and support. No more Red Hat boxes on the shelf. Cheers; Leon
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:02, Rob wrote: In my experience, torrents are faster than the fastest mirror once they get going. *IF* there are thousands of people participating. If not, the mirror works out faster. Cheers; LEon
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Thursday 25 September 2003 11:24, Leon Brooks wrote: On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:02, Rob wrote: In my experience, torrents are faster than the fastest mirror once they get going. *IF* there are thousands of people participating. If not, the mirror works out faster. And I say again, *in my experience*, they're always faster. This is probably because I tend to want to download ISO's when everyone else is also trying, making torrents much much faster and mirrors much much slower. I have no idea whether it's dozens, hundreds or thousands of people, but I do know that when I use a torrent to download a Linux ISO, my connections to other people (and vice versa) are much closer to dozens than thousands in number. I imagine that weeks later a torrent would be slower as you suggest. But of course we were talking about release day, not weeks afterward. Rob
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:37, Serge Pluess wrote: One day one lonely box of 8.2 was sitting at Fry's next to lots and lots of boxes of Redhat 9, Suse 8.2, and current versions of Lycoris, Lindows, FreeBSD and NetBSD. Redhat and Suse boxes are usually at the store the day of the official release. And the store said that it doesn't have any preferences, just that they never received any 9.0 nor 9.1 retail boxes, otherwise they would put them on the shelves immediately. Red Hat have just eliminated themselves from this race. They've figured out that the money lies in enterprise and corporate installation and support. No more Red Hat boxes on the shelf. Cheers; Leon Yes, but due to their long lasting presence in the stores plus the media attention they have build themselves enough name recognition to probably be able to pull this off. If you go on the street here and you ask people they will have heard of RedHat and probably even seen the box in the stores. Two IT directors I know tried Linux because they saw the boxes at Fry's and bought a pack. What was it? Both went for Redhat and one additionally bought a copy of Xandros. If you ask the same people about Mandrake, most of the times they have never heard that name. Like Austin said, people here are impulse buyer when they see it in the store and if Mandrake wants to be a bigger player in the US it needs that presence to build up their name recognition. I understand that the immediate payoff for Mandrake is less but in the longterm it will just be beneficial. Even SUSE as a German company realized that and managed to get themselves known here thanks mostly to the boxed sets, not even providing a free ISO to download. Also for the enterprise, deals such as the ones between Oracle and Redhat and Suse are necessary to build credibility as a serious platform. Thanks Serge
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Le Jeudi 25 Septembre 2003 01:49, Greg Meyer a écrit : On Wednesday 24 September 2003 06:59 pm, Rolf Pedersen wrote: Anyway, Mandrake has sold in stores before, maybe they will again, when cash is more plentiful. I am confident they are making prudent decisions, not acting out of ignorance of the market. Don't forget that RedHat has announced that it will no longer fill the retail channel with boxes either. That RH announce should be a mistake, I realy think it's better if users can see Mandrake in some stores, not especialy in super market, but in some computers-stores. So, only avalable by net and visa : THIS E-STORE IS NOT FOR ME !!! - -- Pascal Lacroix GPG Public Key available at http://pgp.mit.edu -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/c0eUyYiyYS7m6eoRAvxgAJ9Nu6kn4uxROpi8Px1WPvNPSU8JMACeIraS eFNu8/rSuumaOwCh9ges7d4= =Yvwr -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 10:38, Serge Plüss wrote: On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:37, Serge Pluess wrote: One day one lonely box of 8.2 was sitting at Fry's next to lots and lots of boxes of Redhat 9, Suse 8.2, and current versions of Lycoris, Lindows, FreeBSD and NetBSD. Redhat and Suse boxes are usually at the store the day of the official release. And the store said that it doesn't have any preferences, just that they never received any 9.0 nor 9.1 retail boxes, otherwise they would put them on the shelves immediately. Red Hat have just eliminated themselves from this race. They've figured out that the money lies in enterprise and corporate installation and support. No more Red Hat boxes on the shelf. No more of the high end boxes. They made this announcement right after 8.0 was released. However the lower end consumer boxes are still in the stores. They retrenched on that point. (I asked one of the Sales managers at LWSF and got a similar story from her.) James Cheers; Leon Yes, but due to their long lasting presence in the stores plus the media attention they have build themselves enough name recognition to probably be able to pull this off. If you go on the street here and you ask people they will have heard of RedHat and probably even seen the box in the stores. Two IT directors I know tried Linux because they saw the boxes at Fry's and bought a pack. What was it? Both went for Redhat and one additionally bought a copy of Xandros. If you ask the same people about Mandrake, most of the times they have never heard that name. Like Austin said, people here are impulse buyer when they see it in the store and if Mandrake wants to be a bigger player in the US it needs that presence to build up their name recognition. I understand that the immediate payoff for Mandrake is less but in the longterm it will just be beneficial. Even SUSE as a German company realized that and managed to get themselves known here thanks mostly to the boxed sets, not even providing a free ISO to download. Also for the enterprise, deals such as the ones between Oracle and Redhat and Suse are necessary to build credibility as a serious platform. Thanks Serge
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 16:19, Leon Brooks wrote: On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:29, Adam Williamson wrote: Or are you just wondering exactly when this will happen, given the delayed release of the 9.1 ISOs? Old habits die hard, don't they? (-: s/9.1/9.2/ D'oh. Where did I put my brown paper bag? :) -- adamw
[Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Which means that if no major critical bugs are found in the next few days, it will be considered as final. Thanks to all who have participated in 9.21, the mandrake linux distribution is becoming more and more a community project, and I am really happy with that. When we will be sure these ISOs are really final, that is to say by the end of next week, club members and contributors should have exclusive access to the download edition ISOs. For others ISOs will be freely available worldwide by the end of october. -- Warly
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
When is cooker unfreeze ? What are the ways for Mdk 9.3/10 ? Thanks From: Warly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:32:20 +0200 Which means that if no major critical bugs are found in the next few days, it will be considered as final. Thanks to all who have participated in 9.21, the mandrake linux distribution is becoming more and more a community project, and I am really happy with that. When we will be sure these ISOs are really final, that is to say by the end of next week, club members and contributors should have exclusive access to the download edition ISOs. For others ISOs will be freely available worldwide by the end of october. -- Warly _ Hotmail : un compte GRATUIT qui vous suit partout et tout le temps ! http://g.msn.fr/FR1000/9493
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Nice ! Who are contributors ? For exemple, am I a contributor (send bugs report, discuss here) ? Thanks From: Warly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:32:20 +0200 Which means that if no major critical bugs are found in the next few days, it will be considered as final. Thanks to all who have participated in 9.21, the mandrake linux distribution is becoming more and more a community project, and I am really happy with that. When we will be sure these ISOs are really final, that is to say by the end of next week, club members and contributors should have exclusive access to the download edition ISOs. For others ISOs will be freely available worldwide by the end of october. -- Warly _ Trouvez l'âme soeur sur MSN Rencontres ! http://g.msn.fr/FR1000/9551
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Le mer 24/09/2003 à 12:32, Warly a écrit : Which means that if no major critical bugs are found in the next few days, it will be considered as final. Thanks to all who have participated in 9.21, the mandrake linux distribution is becoming more and more a community project, and I am really happy with that. When we will be sure these ISOs are really final, that is to say by the end of next week, club members and contributors should have exclusive access to the download edition ISOs. For others ISOs will be freely available worldwide by the end of october. I presume you meant by the end of SEPTEMBER ? Stef -- signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 11:53, Teletchéa Stéphane wrote: Le mer 24/09/2003 à 12:32, Warly a écrit : Which means that if no major critical bugs are found in the next few days, it will be considered as final. Thanks to all who have participated in 9.21, the mandrake linux distribution is becoming more and more a community project, and I am really happy with that. When we will be sure these ISOs are really final, that is to say by the end of next week, club members and contributors should have exclusive access to the download edition ISOs. For others ISOs will be freely available worldwide by the end of october. I presume you meant by the end of SEPTEMBER ? No, they don't. I think it's intended to encourage people to join the Club. I wouldn't exactly be surprised if someone were to put up a BT for the ISOs, though... -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Warly wrote: When we will be sure these ISOs are really final, that is to say by the end of next week, club members and contributors should have exclusive access to the download edition ISOs. For others ISOs will be freely available worldwide by the end of october. Warly, But what is your plan for availability and freezing of the trees that correspond and are more complete than these incomplete ISOs (for rc and final and release and cooker)? ISOs are useless to most people with broadband bandwidth limits (like the writer) who already have the cooker tree, as you know. ISOs are also incomplete, as stated above, therefore are not a good base for release testing. Distributing the tree instead of the ISO takes negligibly more mirror space and suits everyone, as long as mkcd is included so that CD sets can be made from the tree for giving to second level testers who lack suitable internet access. Distribution by tree also makes updating far more efficient and economical. This remains my considered recommendation. -- Ron. [Melbourne, Australia] If you keep a green bough in your heart, the singing bird will come Get Fastest Mandrake downloader, English-only, from: http://members.optusnet.com.au/ronst/ Click all ye faithful!
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 13:06, Ron Stodden wrote: Distributing the tree instead of the ISO takes negligibly more mirror space and suits everyone, as long as mkcd is included so that CD sets can be made from the tree for giving to second level testers who lack suitable internet access. Distribution by tree also makes updating far more efficient and economical. You write this like it doesn't already happen...uh, every mirror I can see has a full 9.1 tree. Where's the problem? -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Adam, Look at the title of this thread. Subject is 9.2, and this is the cooker mailing list. Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 13:06, Ron Stodden wrote: Distributing the tree instead of the ISO takes negligibly more mirror space and suits everyone, as long as mkcd is included so that CD sets can be made from the tree for giving to second level testers who lack suitable internet access. Distribution by tree also makes updating far more efficient and economical. You write this like it doesn't already happen...uh, every mirror I can see has a full 9.1 tree. Where's the problem? -- Ron. [Melbourne, Australia] If you keep a green bough in your heart, the singing bird will come Get Fastest Mandrake downloader, English-only, from: http://members.optusnet.com.au/ronst/ Click all ye faithful!
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Le Mercredi 24 Septembre 2003 12:54, Adam Williamson a écrit : No, they don't. I think it's intended to encourage people to join the Club. I wouldn't exactly be surprised if someone were to put up a BT for the ISOs, though... Two weeks ago, I had a private discussion with Jacques Le Marois about this. It is necessary to encourage people who are participating. The club is an easy way to participate giving an important source of income. It is important to improve the advantages for the members of the club. The download edition will be availaible for anybody when the boxes will be available. It is sure that some piracy will appear. But don't care... This can give a taste of the forbidden fruit ! and give newcomers ;-) -- Pierre Jarillon - http://pjarillon.free.fr/ Vice-président de l'ABUL : http://abul.org/
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 13:21, Ron Stodden wrote: Adam, Look at the title of this thread. Subject is 9.2, and this is the cooker mailing list. Yeah, but my point is that MDK have always distributed trees of previous releases to mirrors, so I see no reason why that won't happen with 9.2. Or are you just wondering exactly when this will happen, given the delayed release of the 9.1 ISOs? If that's the question, then ISWYM. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Ron Stodden [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Warly wrote: When we will be sure these ISOs are really final, that is to say by the end of next week, club members and contributors should have exclusive access to the download edition ISOs. For others ISOs will be freely available worldwide by the end of october. Warly, But what is your plan for availability and freezing of the trees that correspond and are more complete than these incomplete ISOs (for rc and final and release and cooker)? ISOs are useless to most people with broadband bandwidth limits (like the writer) who already have the cooker tree, as you know. ISOs are also incomplete, as stated above, therefore are not a good base for release testing. Distributing the tree instead of the ISO takes negligibly more mirror space and suits everyone, as long as mkcd is included so that CD sets can be made from the tree for giving to second level testers who lack suitable internet access. Distribution by tree also makes updating far more efficient and economical. This remains my considered recommendation. The public availability date of the tree is not yet known. However I have internally forked the tree this morning. -- Warly
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Le mer 24/09/2003 à 15:45, Warly a écrit : Ron Stodden [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Warly wrote: When we will be sure these ISOs are really final, that is to say by the end of next week, club members and contributors should have exclusive access to the download edition ISOs. For others ISOs will be freely available worldwide by the end of october. Warly, But what is your plan for availability and freezing of the trees that correspond and are more complete than these incomplete ISOs (for rc and final and release and cooker)? ISOs are useless to most people with broadband bandwidth limits (like the writer) who already have the cooker tree, as you know. ISOs are also incomplete, as stated above, therefore are not a good base for release testing. Distributing the tree instead of the ISO takes negligibly more mirror space and suits everyone, as long as mkcd is included so that CD sets can be made from the tree for giving to second level testers who lack suitable internet access. Distribution by tree also makes updating far more efficient and economical. This remains my considered recommendation. The public availability date of the tree is not yet known. However I have internally forked the tree this morning. Hum Am i alone ? 1 - I Have already buyed boxes (8.0 and 8.1) 2 - I made some people switching from RH to Mandrake 3 - I tried to improve Mdk by providing bug reports and doing some translations/corrections in French. I try to do it better and better as my knowledge increases, see my last comments about rc2 (and the snapshots i made for OpenOffice.org). 4 - As i'm part of a lug (http://www.parinux.org) i'm installing linux to show its performances every time i can. Next planned install party is 18th of october. What would i answer when i will be asked for 9.2 ? Furthermore : i want to install a machine here with 9.2, how can i do it without the CDs ? I think i'm doing my job better by reporting mails than begin a mandrake club member (since i don't have a fast connection, and Mdk don't provide CDs of club applications, i have no use of it !), so i paid my part. For the less, this is what was said to me last year at linux expo in Paris. May be i'm wrong, but in that case i would like to know FAR BY ADVANCE what Mdk will do from the community work : 1 - in 9.1, you provided the iso one week after the club (i can afford that) but WITHOUT warning us before; 2 - in 9.2, you want to provide isos one month after but WITHOUT warning us before; Last time, is there a chance one could have an iso without paying ? Let me know, i hate doubt ... Stef -- signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On 09/24/2003 11:37:03 AM, Serge Pluess wrote: 9.0 and 9.1 boxes never hit the shelves here at the main stores such as Fry's Electronic, CompUSA or BestBuy. One day one lonely box of 8.2 was sitting at Fry's next to lots and lots of boxes of Redhat 9, Suse 8.2, and current versions of Lycoris, Lindows, FreeBSD and NetBSD. I agree with this completely, and I have said so before. In my opinion that is something that Mandrake needs to put more effort in in order to get themselves noticed with the mainstream public. I know of quite a few people that just pick up a box at any of these stores to try them out just for the fact that they are available there while they were pondering through the store. Yeah... I don't know if it's a difference between European and American cosummerism or not, but I assure you, lots of (North) Americans would buy the box without prior planning... just because it's in front of them. Austin -- Austin Acton Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 05:28 AM, Pierre Jarillon wrote: Le Mercredi 24 Septembre 2003 12:54, Adam Williamson a écrit : No, they don't. I think it's intended to encourage people to join the Club. I wouldn't exactly be surprised if someone were to put up a BT for the ISOs, though... Two weeks ago, I had a private discussion with Jacques Le Marois about this. It is necessary to encourage people who are participating. The club is an easy way to participate giving an important source of income. It is important to improve the advantages for the members of the club. The download edition will be availaible for anybody when the boxes will be available. It is sure that some piracy will appear. But don't care... This can give a taste of the forbidden fruit ! and give newcomers ;-) I agree that this is a good approach to encourage people to join, but for the comment of the boxed-set, that just seems to be more-or-less a joke. 9.0 and 9.1 boxes never hit the shelves here at the main stores such as Fry's Electronic, CompUSA or BestBuy. One day one lonely box of 8.2 was sitting at Fry's next to lots and lots of boxes of Redhat 9, Suse 8.2, and current versions of Lycoris, Lindows, FreeBSD and NetBSD. Redhat and Suse boxes are usually at the store the day of the official release. And the store said that it doesn't have any preferences, just that they never received any 9.0 nor 9.1 retail boxes, otherwise they would put them on the shelves immediately. Now 9.2 is being rushed out and I doubt we'll see those boxes appear in any of these stores either soon. In my opinion that is something that Mandrake needs to put more effort in in order to get themselves noticed with the mainstream public. I know of quite a few people that just pick up a box at any of these stores to try them out just for the fact that they are available there while they were pondering through the store. thx for a great distro and all the hard work involved by anyone at Mandrake and all you guys here on cooker. Serge
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Le mer 24/09/2003 à 18:02, Rob a écrit : On Wednesday 24 September 2003 11:38, Teletchéa Stéphane wrote: Last time, is there a chance one could have an iso without paying ? Torrents will be available within a day of it going up on the club, I can almost guarantee it. I'm a club member and that's how I plan on getting my copy, anyway. In my experience, torrents are faster than the fastest mirror once they get going. Rob Think of me when you'll get it : i have a fast ethernet access here (university) and be happy to have torrent going and spreading ... Stef -- signature.asc Description: PGP signature
RE: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
I would like to have the isos to do a fresh install and close any bugs I may have. I would do a network cooker install but if I get the torrents then I can share the bandwidth love. Cory -Original Message- From: Warly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 3:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent Which means that if no major critical bugs are found in the next few days, it will be considered as final. Thanks to all who have participated in 9.21, the mandrake linux distribution is becoming more and more a community project, and I am really happy with that. When we will be sure these ISOs are really final, that is to say by the end of next week, club members and contributors should have exclusive access to the download edition ISOs. For others ISOs will be freely available worldwide by the end of october. -- Warly
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 24, 2003 10:43 am, Teletchéa Stéphane wrote: Le mer 24/09/2003 à 18:02, Rob a écrit : On Wednesday 24 September 2003 11:38, Teletchéa Stéphane wrote: Last time, is there a chance one could have an iso without paying ? Torrents will be available within a day of it going up on the club, I can almost guarantee it. I'm a club member and that's how I plan on getting my copy, anyway. In my experience, torrents are faster than the fastest mirror once they get going. Rob Think of me when you'll get it : i have a fast ethernet access here (university) and be happy to have torrent going and spreading ... Stef I participated in the torrent of RC2 for nearly a week, about 50 KB/sec upload speed, no download pull since I had already rsynced a set of ISOs from uninett and just saved copies of them to the btorrent directory I use. I'm willling to do it again any time in order to reduce the mirror load or just to help the cookers but the torrent link has to be active first. I'd just ask that someone let me know when to start it. I may be a 'newbie' and not much good for anything else but I do try to help in any way I can. Regards; Charlie - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-10mdk 11:16:18 up 4 days, 36 min, 1 user, load average: 0.03, 0.05, 0.23 Old timer, n.: One who remembers when charity was a virtue and not an organization. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/cdM9G11CaRuZZSIRAtQbAJ9sEii2n/EmfJQ6wvVZBpYboCkQUwCdHb7/ VdWIzhWK91ViW88gIHrtBnw= =IIb9 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
For others ISOs will be freely available worldwide by the end of october. Whoa whoa whoa. End of *october*? What's up with that? I can see making 'extra' cds available to club members, maybe with the commercial software packaged on them, but the core distro a whole month in advance of public release? Totally not cool, guys. I'm a poor student and a former club member (read: would renew if I could, but its financially unpossible). I've convinced several of my friends to make the switch from Windows since the release of 9.1 and told them to wait until 9.2 because it'll be out by the end of september. All the information I had up until this point has pointed to a release *this week*. I have told them that *this week* they will be liberated. Now I have to tell them that one of us will have to pay for a club membership if they want it? Come on, man. Get real. I just hope those torrents get up asap. Mike
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wed Sep 24 10:39 +, _ cosmicflo wrote: Nice ! Who are contributors ? For exemple, am I a contributor (send bugs report, discuss here) ? IIRC, the contributors are those who added their names to the proper page on the Wiki. -- Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Take due notice and govern yourself accordingly. Currently playing: %s Linux 2.4.22-8mdk 15:23:01 up 5 min, 4 users, load average: 3.89, 2.33, 1.02
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Le Mercredi 24 Septembre 2003 19:24, Charlie M. a écrit : I participated in the torrent of RC2 for nearly a week, about 50 KB/sec upload speed, no download pull since I had already rsynced a set of ISOs from uninett and just saved copies of them to the btorrent directory I use. I'm willling to do it again any time in order to reduce the mirror load or just to help the cookers but the torrent link has to be active first. I'd just ask that someone let me know when to start it. I may be a 'newbie' and not much good for anything else but I do try to help in any way I can. I don't agree. I've partciped in torrent too, but I won't provide a fast access to the 9.2 ISO before the official release. Some of my student were surprised to learn that the official public launch will be end october, but I've said them that for the lub member, it will be next week. Ok, so I'll join the club, this WE *Exactly* what mandrakesoft has planned. Remember that mandrakesoft must pay their employees. Money will not fall from sky and Packs doesn't give must money. Emmanuel
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Levi Ramsey wrote: On Wed Sep 24 10:39 +, _ cosmicflo wrote: Nice ! Who are contributors ? For exemple, am I a contributor (send bugs report, discuss here) ? IIRC, the contributors are those who added their names to the proper page on the Wiki. I don't think this will be the deciding factor. In fact, most contributors have free club accounts already. The message about this on the club said developers and translators, where I take developers to mean anyone who maintains packages (though I guess there could be other development contributions). Regards, Buchan -- |Registered Linux User #182071-| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Rob wrote: On Wednesday 24 September 2003 11:38, Teletchéa Stéphane wrote: Last time, is there a chance one could have an iso without paying ? Of course, either you have contributed, or you can wait. Note, the big issue is to ensure that boxed sets from the store are delivered sooner compared to the ISO release. If I have to choose between ISOs or a Prosuite DVD-only 3 weeks later, I will take ISOs, if I have to decide between ISOs or Prosuite DVD about the same time, I will take a Prosuite DVD. Mandrakesoft is purely ensuring that people don't take lazy decisions like in the past. Torrents will be available within a day of it going up on the club, I can almost guarantee it. I'm a club member and that's how I plan on getting my copy, anyway. In my experience, torrents are faster than the fastest mirror once they get going. I would discourage you from doing this (unless you have some means of ensuring that only club members can access the torrent, which at present is probably impossible). Sure, you may gain some new friends who download the torrent, but will there be another release for them to run? If you want Mandrakesoft to survive, you will want them to be able to generate revenue. Building and distributing ISOs will undermine that ability. torrent'ing the official ISOs from MandrakeClub will undermine that ability. Since I don't have bandwidth (besides to our local ftp mirror), I will probably be buying a Prosuite DVD, and will install with that for any friends, but I'm not about to rip it to an ISO and put it up n said FTP mirror ... If you don't want Mandrakesoft to survive, why do you bother running Mandrake? Think about this one carefully ... Regards, Buchan -- |Registered Linux User #182071-| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On 24 Sep 2003, Teletchéa Stéphane wrote: (since i don't have a fast connection, and Mdk don't provide CDs of club applications, i have no use of it !), Well, I do not want to deny/judge about your claims. exept for you are saying here: - i am no club member because i have no fast connection and they do not provide cds of club apps anyway, so _i have no use of it_ and you use this as an argument for saying that you would like to have the 9.2 ISO, which is availiable through club? um... guess you now can become a member? (which is, if i'm correct, exactly the point of this idea). If you want 9.2 already, you can just do a ftp/hd install of cooker, or upgrade your 9.1 system to cooker, or upgrade your RC2 to cooker. Or download cooker and create your own isos. d.
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 24, 2003 01:27 pm, Blindauer Emmanuel wrote: I'd just ask that someone let me know when to start it. I may be a 'newbie' and not much good for anything else but I do try to help in any way I can. I don't agree. I've partciped in torrent too, but I won't provide a fast access to the 9.2 ISO before the official release. Some of my student were surprised to learn that the official public launch will be end october, but I've said them that for the lub member, it will be next week. Ok, so I'll join the club, this WE That was the reason I said what I did above, someone needs to tell me when. *Exactly* what mandrakesoft has planned. Remember that mandrakesoft must pay their employees. Money will not fall from sky and Packs doesn't give must money. I agree; I was _not_ offering to do anything to make any financial difficulties worse. I was offering to share my bandwidth at such time as Warly or whoever makes such decisions deem prudent. A standing offer to do what I could to help in other words, OK? Emmanuel Charlie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/cf2cG11CaRuZZSIRAnwcAJ9d6VBw66E6xZFLp82RYY7DSAgQkACfbw9I IQoYZL66y70Zb1PQVksT0Kw= =oGFz -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Austin wrote: On 09/24/2003 11:37:03 AM, Serge Pluess wrote: 9.0 and 9.1 boxes never hit the shelves here at the main stores such as Fry's Electronic, CompUSA or BestBuy. One day one lonely box of 8.2 was sitting at Fry's next to lots and lots of boxes of Redhat 9, Suse 8.2, and current versions of Lycoris, Lindows, FreeBSD and NetBSD. I agree with this completely, and I have said so before. In my opinion that is something that Mandrake needs to put more effort in in order to get themselves noticed with the mainstream public. I know of quite a few people that just pick up a box at any of these stores to try them out just for the fact that they are available there while they were pondering through the store. Yeah... I don't know if it's a difference between European and American cosummerism or not, but I assure you, lots of (North) Americans would buy the box without prior planning... just because it's in front of them. Austin It seems to me the capital investment required to produce and distribute large international inventories of boxed sets is probably not within the current means of such a tightly-budgeted, government-auditted company, working to get back in the black. Proven, lower-overhead means of generating revenue are being employed, short-term, at least. In the 08/01/2003 Mandrake Linux Community Newsletter - Issue #82, there is a link to the MandrakeSoft Shareholder Newsletter, which contains the following: http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/investors/newsletter/sn030724 For the first half year of the current fiscal year, MandrakeSoft's consolidated revenue decreased by 10% to 2.10 million euros over the same period of the previous year. This decrease is mainly due to the weakness of the US dollar, which is the main currency of MandrakeSoft's revenue. With last year's USD/euro exchange rate, consolidated revenue would have remained mostly stable (-2%). Consolidated gross margins for the first half year increased by 24%. This significant increase reflects an important change in revenue sources: # Increase in high margin revenue lines such as OEM, on-line sales and subscriptions to MandrakeLinux Users Club (from 40% to 63% of consolidated revenue), # Decrease in retail sales (from 51% to 27% of consolidated revenue). For the first half year of the current fiscal year, MandrakeSoft reported a consolidated operating loss of 1.27 million euros which is an improvement of 2.4 million euros compared to last year's same period. This improvement is mainly due to an increase in gross margin plus savings from the ongoing cost reduction plan. Rolf
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
If you don't want Mandrakesoft to survive, why do you bother running Mandrake? I for one don't want MandrakeSoft to become another Microsoft I think that one of the guides for the next release should be EVERTHING works. stop dinking about with the splash screens and the themes and just make it work. who cares if some ap is the absolute lastest version (unless its a security issue) DOES IT WORK?? Speaking of the DVD when abouts will they be ready?? (US release)
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Lothian wrote: | Will consider doing this. | | Just to check is there a difference between the normal, silver, gold and | platnum options (apart from the obvious price differences) | | Will probably join as Standard if I decide to being a poor wee student to. | | Mike I just did so :-) I think, that MDK is worth the 60 Euro I sent them. I have to agree with you, that the differences are not very well explained ~ - there is just a short note, that Silver and better members will get some special offers from time to time. What kind of offers ? How often ? ~ What else ? Anybody knows ? Perhaps the marketing dep. of Mandrakesoft should put more bait on the page, otherwise people will not bite :-) Right now the only percievable difference seems to be, that : 1) you did the right thing not being a cheapskate (I was, though) 2) people at Mandrakesoft will like you better, if you spend more :-) I am not saying, that this *is* the only difference, but this is all information you get from the web page. Not much. Regards, Jan - -- Jan Ciger VRlab EPFL Switzerland GPG public key : http://www.keyserver.net/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/chDln11XseNj94gRAtGvAKC0L+fkQSPcIXM5RSenAMhYZJw6aACePfla mWbL7jfWpx94gMdch0Yuf/A= =nlFk -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On 09/24/2003 02:45:55 PM, Mike Eheler wrote: Whoa whoa whoa. End of *october*? What's up with that? I can see making 'extra' cds available to club members, maybe with the commercial software packaged on them, but the core distro a whole month in advance of public release? Totally not cool, guys. You need money; Mandrake needs money. Neither situation is cool, I assure you. If you're smart enough to be on the cooker list, you're probably smart enough to install it over the network using urpmi anyway, which is totally allowed. The purpose isn't to punish poor students, but to encourage lazy/greedy/ apathetic yuppies and their spoiled middle-class teenagers to join the club instead of leeching off of everyone's hard work. Austin -- Austin Acton Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wednesday 24 September 2003 14:36, Austin wrote: pocket. This is the type of revenue that would not be tapped any other way... he doesn't shop online, he's never heard of the club, and his linux purchase was not premeditated. I remind you that Canadians/Americans love to buy things... we're trained from birth. Indeed, my boss at the time and I both got into Linux for business purposes via Mandrake's Macmillan retail packs for 6.0, bought separately and in both cases spur of the moment. At the moment, all you see for Linux wherever you go around here... Best Buy, Staples, CompUSA, Walmart is Red Hat, and usually SuSE as well. With Mandrake gone, the warehouse places like BJ's and Sam's don't sell any Linux at all. With Red Hat abandoning shrinkwrapped packages, if there's a time for Mandrake to reappear at US retail, it's this xmas... Rob
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Austin wrote: On 09/24/2003 04:50:40 PM, Rolf Pedersen wrote: It seems to me the capital investment required to produce and distribute large international inventories of boxed sets is probably not within the current means of such a tightly-budgeted, government-auditted company, working to get back in the black. But they are already making the boxed sets, and I'm sure that some will make their way to Canada/US... the problem (in my eyes) is that the large consumer chains don't carry them. Geeks like me order online or join the club, but Joe non-linux-user buys his games and his printer cartridges at Best Buy or Future Shop. He doesn't have linux, but he's heard that it's cool, and he has a VISA Gold card in his pocket. This is the type of revenue that would not be tapped any other way... he doesn't shop online, he's never heard of the club, and his linux purchase was not premeditated. I remind you that Canadians/Americans love to buy things... we're trained from birth. Austin Making boxed sets for the store is one level of capital investment and risk. The risk is, if you don't sell them, you lose your investment. As the shareholders newsletter said, selling from the store is higher margin. The return on a fixed production/distribution investment is greater. The demand for production is less and you can, probably, be more flexible/invest less money in a produce-as-needed strategy. The distribution cost is prepaid and as-needed. I don't know the mechanics of getting product distributed worldwide but there must be vastly more man-hours involved in making wholesale arrangements with various and sundry resellers in many cities in many countries, arranging and paying for shipping, etc. Maybe Mandrake has to eat unsold product, I don't know. Maybe there is an order-of-magnitude greater capital outlay required to build and sustain the brick-and-mortar distribution channel. Maybe two. The online store is the leaner, higher-margin channel. The times call for frugality. Anyway, Mandrake has sold in stores before, maybe they will again, when cash is more plentiful. I am confident they are making prudent decisions, not acting out of ignorance of the market. Rolf
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On 09/24/2003 05:47:17 PM, Jan Ciger wrote: I just did so :-) I think, that MDK is worth the 60 Euro I sent them. I have to agree with you, that the differences are not very well explained ~ - there is just a short note, that Silver and better members will get some special offers from time to time. What kind of offers ? How often ? ~ What else ? Anybody knows ? There is no big difference between the levels... it's just to encourage donation. Silver and higher members used to get a StarOffice download. I don't know if this is still the case. Austin -- Austin Acton Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Rolf Pedersen wrote: Making boxed sets for the store is one level of capital investment and risk. The risk is, if you don't sell them, you lose your investment. As the shareholders newsletter said, selling from the store is higher margin. The return on a fixed production/distribution investment is greater. The demand for production is less and you can, probably, be more flexible/invest less money in a produce-as-needed strategy. The distribution cost is prepaid and as-needed. I don't know the mechanics of getting product distributed worldwide but there must be vastly more man-hours involved in making wholesale arrangements with various and sundry resellers in many cities in many countries, arranging and paying for shipping, etc. Maybe Mandrake has to eat unsold product, I don't know. Maybe there is an order-of-magnitude greater capital outlay required to build and sustain the brick-and-mortar distribution channel. Maybe two. The online store is the leaner, higher-margin channel. The times call for frugality. Last time I checked (I work for a big supermarket chain in the UK) Shops buy things from the people that make them. It's then the shops responsibility to sell them. If they don't sell Mandrake still got there money (granted the shop won't buy them again but hey) Mike
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 16:37, Serge Pluess wrote: I agree that this is a good approach to encourage people to join, but for the comment of the boxed-set, that just seems to be more-or-less a joke. 9.0 and 9.1 boxes never hit the shelves here at the main stores such as Fry's Electronic, CompUSA or BestBuy. One day one lonely box of 8.2 was sitting at Fry's next to lots and lots of boxes of Redhat 9, Suse 8.2, and current versions of Lycoris, Lindows, FreeBSD and NetBSD. not everyone lives in America. not everyone buys boxes from stores. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: guess you now can become a member? (which is, if i'm correct, exactly the point of this idea). Will consider doing this. Just to check is there a difference between the normal, silver, gold and platnum options (apart from the obvious price differences) Will probably join as Standard if I decide to being a poor wee student to. Mike
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
If you're smart enough to be on the cooker list, you're probably smart enough to install it over the network using urpmi anyway, which is totally allowed. The purpose isn't to punish poor students, but to encourage lazy/greedy/ apathetic yuppies and their spoiled middle-class teenagers to join the club instead of leeching off of everyone's hard work. Oh for sure, and have done that on my home PCs, but I'd have to take my computer over to their houses, heh. Biggest thing is I just want to be able to give them 'final' code, y'know? :) Also, how do I know that my local copy of cooker is all the final packages, etc. If there's an easy way to find out, I'm down with that. I will eventually buy my way back into the club, and a boxed copy like in days of yore. Eventually :) Mike
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
Note, the big issue is to ensure that boxed sets from the store are delivered sooner compared to the ISO release. If I have to choose between ISOs or a Prosuite DVD-only 3 weeks later, I will take ISOs, if I have to decide between ISOs or Prosuite DVD about the same time, I will take a Prosuite DVD. Yeah. As mildly upsetting as it is not to have the final code right away, I will admit that in the past I've not bought boxes simply because I already had the ISOs (when money was tight). I usually only bought the boxes if I had the spare money, as a way of helping out. I still have an unopened 8.0 box, heh. I would discourage you from doing this (unless you have some means of ensuring that only club members can access the torrent, which at present is probably impossible). Sure, you may gain some new friends who download the torrent, but will there be another release for them to run? Nobody knows which particular users are hosting the torrents, so no one will gain any friends. :) If you want Mandrakesoft to survive, you will want them to be able to generate revenue. Building and distributing ISOs will undermine that ability. torrent'ing the official ISOs from MandrakeClub will undermine that ability. Since I don't have bandwidth (besides to our local ftp mirror), I will probably be buying a Prosuite DVD, and will install with that for any friends, but I'm not about to rip it to an ISO and put it up n said FTP mirror ... Well, the ProSuite has a lot more packages than the standard Mandrake install, right? That's always been the incentive to me (other than supporting Mandrake) to buy the ProSuite or whichever package, is that it came with a more complete package line-up, as well as some things you might not otherwise be able to download (StarOffice, for example). Mike
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wednesday 24 September 2003 06:59 pm, Rolf Pedersen wrote: Anyway, Mandrake has sold in stores before, maybe they will again, when cash is more plentiful. I am confident they are making prudent decisions, not acting out of ignorance of the market. Don't forget that RedHat has announced that it will no longer fill the retail channel with boxes either. -- /g Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book, inside a dog it's too dark to read -Groucho Marx
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Thursday 25 September 2003 01:06, Michael Lothian wrote: Last time I checked (I work for a big supermarket chain in the UK) Shops buy things from the people that make them. It's then the shops responsibility to sell them. With this kind of stuff there is often a buy back guaranty or something like that
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On 09/24/2003 04:02:12 PM, Buchan Milne wrote: If you don't want Mandrakesoft to survive, why do you bother running Mandrake? Amen, brotha. Austin
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On 09/24/2003 04:50:40 PM, Rolf Pedersen wrote: It seems to me the capital investment required to produce and distribute large international inventories of boxed sets is probably not within the current means of such a tightly-budgeted, government-auditted company, working to get back in the black. But they are already making the boxed sets, and I'm sure that some will make their way to Canada/US... the problem (in my eyes) is that the large consumer chains don't carry them. Geeks like me order online or join the club, but Joe non-linux-user buys his games and his printer cartridges at Best Buy or Future Shop. He doesn't have linux, but he's heard that it's cool, and he has a VISA Gold card in his pocket. This is the type of revenue that would not be tapped any other way... he doesn't shop online, he's never heard of the club, and his linux purchase was not premeditated. I remind you that Canadians/Americans love to buy things... we're trained from birth. Austin -- Austin Acton Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
To contribute, you just have to put your name on a web page? Are packagers contributors? Not important, i've run cooker and at work, we have an mandrakeclub account. Mandrake 9.2 on every student pcs :) Le mer 24/09/2003 à 21:24, Levi Ramsey a écrit : On Wed Sep 24 10:39 +, _ cosmicflo wrote: Nice ! Who are contributors ? For exemple, am I a contributor (send bugs report, discuss here) ? IIRC, the contributors are those who added their names to the proper page on the Wiki.
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 22:36, Robert L martin wrote: If you don't want Mandrakesoft to survive, why do you bother running Mandrake? I for one don't want MandrakeSoft to become another Microsoft I think that one of the guides for the next release should be EVERTHING works. Mandrake 10.0, otherwise known as the return of Christ... -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 19:36, Austin wrote: non-linux-user buys his games and his printer cartridges at Best Buy or Future Shop. He doesn't have linux, but he's heard that it's cool, and he has a VISA Gold card in his pocket. This is the type of revenue that would not be tapped any other way... he doesn't shop online, he's never heard of the club, and his It's just not practical, which is why they've stopped doing it. One, Mandrake don't make much money on boxes. They pay people to make the boxes, they pay to duplicate the CDs, they pay to print the manuals, they pay for distribution, and they have to sell wholesale to the retailers. They make pennies. To make these pennies they have to have a permanent US office, because big US chains don't want to be calling France all the time. MDK used to sell through US chains, so if they were actually making any decent money from these notional Joe Sixpack buyers with their VISA cards, I don't see why they'd have stopped. I expect the money they saved by stopping bothering with the US office, the workers, the distribution and so on is probably more than they made from selling boxes in the US in the FIRST place. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Robert L martin wanted us to know: I think that one of the guides for the next release should be EVERTHING works. stop dinking about with the splash screens and the themes and just make it work. who cares if some ap is the absolute lastest version (unless its a security issue) DOES IT WORK?? Ah, but you're skirting around an issue that many people ignore. The answer to does it work is frequently if you grab the latest cvs of XX package. Why? Because people like to buy the latest and greatest hardware. Unfortunately, Linux driver support is done after the fact of hardware release unless the hardware operates identically to previous hardware that was released. Whole corporations have ignored Linux for a long time, but that is slowly changing. I'd like it to be a little faster myself. Back to the point, your definition of DOES IT WORK is going to be confined to the scope of the hardware you own. Decisions are made by developers every day as to whether the hardware support required is balanced by the features/bugs introduced with new code. Of course, this is not the only issue. Witness the recent openssh exploits that we were immune to due to the intelligent thought process of our developers (I include Vincent in this). Lots of variables are involved. - -- Blue skies... Todd | Get a bigger hammer! | All vendors suck, but different ones | | http://www.mrball.net | suck less in different applications. | | http://faq.mrball.net |--Andy Walden on NANOG | Linux kernel 2.4.21-0.25mdk 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://www.mrball.net/todd.asc iD8DBQE/clS5IBT1264ScBURAtoiAKDBz6beKUk44AkHPiVQmOXZSAkVVQCgpGVZ KfAEFcnl4T46yppDO5RMhcw= =mt7M -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 00:06, Michael Lothian wrote: Last time I checked (I work for a big supermarket chain in the UK) Shops buy things from the people that make them. It's then the shops responsibility to sell them. Heh. How long have you worked there? Ever dealt with newspapers? Or new suppliers? We have this thing called sale or return, man. Big chains often demand new suppliers only supply them with stuff on a sale-or-return basis. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 19:46, Austin wrote: If you're smart enough to be on the cooker list, you're probably smart enough to install it over the network using urpmi anyway, which is totally allowed. The purpose isn't to punish poor students, but to encourage lazy/greedy/ apathetic yuppies and their spoiled middle-class teenagers to join the club instead of leeching off of everyone's hard work. I'm a lazy, greedy, apathetic middle-class poor student...where do I figure? :D -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On Thu Sep 25 1:07 +0200, Bellegarde Cedric wrote: To contribute, you just have to put your name on a web page? Are packagers contributors? I was erroneous in confusing cosmicflo's question to be about the credits/thanks file which will name various contributors to 9.2. -- Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Take due notice and govern yourself accordingly. Currently playing: John Barry - The Living Daylights OMPS - Afghanista Linux 2.4.22-8mdk 23:30:00 up 8:12, 6 users, load average: 1.14, 0.72, 0.38
Re: [Cooker] 9.2 ISOs has been sent
On 09/24/2003 09:32:03 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: One, Mandrake don't make much money on boxes. They pay people to make the boxes, they pay to duplicate the CDs, they pay to print the manuals, they pay for distribution, and they have to sell wholesale to the retailers. So why bother at all then? Where are they selling the boxed sets now? Online only? I expect the money they saved by stopping bothering with the US office, the workers, the distribution and so on is probably more than they made from selling boxes in the US in the FIRST place. Well, until middle-class America and their non-credit-card-holding but free- living-at-home and part-time-job-holding kids start doing all their shopping online, probably the largest market of disposable income in the world is being left untapped. There has to be a way to sell such a cool product to presently-unaware- America, hasn't there? Austin -- Austin Acton Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
