Re: [Cooker] cooker-ppc?

[Stew Benedict]

On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, [iso-8859-15] Gaétan QUENTIN wrote:

> Hi!
> 
>  Is the cooker-ppc mailing liste still alive?
> 
>  I haven't received any email since i suscribed, a few days ago.
> 
> 

It's alive, just not very lively :(

-- 
Stew Benedict

--
MandrakeSoft

Re: [Cooker] cooker-amd64

[J.P. Pasnak]

Gwenole Beauchesne said:

> Hi,
>
>> Attempts to sub to cooker-amd64 return 'list does not exist'.
>
> 
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> and subscribe cooker-amd64 in the subject.
>
> Note: that's "moondrake.com" for subscriptions, and
> "linux-mandrake.com" for usual mails.
>

Thanks!

-- 
Live fast, die young,
You're sucking up my bandwidth.

J.P. Pasnak, CD
CCNA
http://www.warpedsystems.sk.ca

Re: [Cooker] cooker-amd64

[Gwenole Beauchesne]

Hi,

Attempts to sub to cooker-amd64 return 'list does not exist'.


[EMAIL PROTECTED]
and subscribe cooker-amd64 in the subject.
Note: that's "moondrake.com" for subscriptions, and 
"linux-mandrake.com" for usual mails.

Bye,
Gwenole.

Re: [Cooker] cooker alive and well

[Stefan van der Eijk]

Gwenole Beauchesne wrote:

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Stefan van der Eijk wrote:

 

I am automatically rebuilding cooker main and cooker contrib packages on 
the amd64 box at CSC. I'm only uploading cooker contrib. But I also have 
271 cooker packages that can be uploaded, but I won't because I'm not 
supposed to --> you said I couldn't.
   

Indeed, because there are no extra package you could provide in main that
are not already available. Unless you fixed the remaining ones that has
to.
 

anyway, enjoy building manually... I keep track and I'll see the numbers 
of packages that I _could_ upload go down, as you catch up :-)
   

Ahaha, you are really funny Stefan,

GB, you're funny too!

packages I rebuild manually are those 
that needs to be fixed. But of course, I suppose your marvellous slbd 
script auto-fixes packages, isn't it?

Uh... it just builds them... AFAIK all changes should be in the SRPMS, 
shouldn't they? Or am I missing something?

So the packages resulting from rebuilding the packages in SRPMS should 
contain the fixes.

Now, let's see what the number is today:

$ ~/bin/amd64_upload_cooker.sh  | wc -l
   265
That's 6 less than the last time I checked...

regards,

Stefan
acpid-1.0.2-4mdk
apache2-2.0.47-6mdk
apache2-common-2.0.47-6mdk
apache2-devel-2.0.47-6mdk
apache2-manual-2.0.47-6mdk
apache2-mod_auth_mysql-2.0.47_1.11-3mdk
apache2-mod_auth_pgsql-2.0.47_2.0.1-3mdk
apache2-mod_cache-2.0.47-6mdk
apache2-mod_dav-2.0.47-6mdk
apache2-mod_deflate-2.0.47-6mdk
apache2-mod_disk_cache-2.0.47-6mdk
apache2-mod_file_cache-2.0.47-6mdk
apache2-mod_ldap-2.0.47-6mdk
apache2-mod_mem_cache-2.0.47-6mdk
apache2-mod_proxy-2.0.47-6mdk
apache2-mod_ssl-2.0.47-6mdk
apache2-modules-2.0.47-6mdk
apache2-source-2.0.47-6mdk
apache-conf-2.0.47-8mdk
apache-suexec-1.3.28-1mdk
at-spi-1.3.7-1mdk
bg5ps-1.3.0-7mdk
bind-9.2.3-0.rc2.1mdk
bind-devel-9.2.3-0.rc2.1mdk
bind-utils-9.2.3-0.rc2.1mdk
bootloader-utils-1.6-3mdk
bootsplash-2.0.6-1mdk
bug-buddy-2.4.0-1mdk
cim-3.36-5mdk
console-tools-0.2.3-46mdk
cups-1.1.19-10mdk
cups-common-1.1.19-10mdk
cups-drivers-1.1-116mdk
cups-serial-1.1.19-10mdk
dia-0.91-9mdk
drakxtools-9.2-16mdk
drakxtools-http-9.2-16mdk
drakxtools-newt-9.2-16mdk
epiphany-1.0-1mdk
epiphany-devel-1.0-1mdk
exif-0.6-3mdk
fbtv-3.88-4mdk
foomatic-db-3.0-1.20030908.3mdk
foomatic-db-engine-3.0-1.20030908.3mdk
foomatic-filters-3.0-1.20030908.3mdk
gail-1.4.0-2mdk
gal2.0-1.99.9-3mdk
gcc-3.3.1-2mdk
gcc-c++-3.3.1-2mdk
gcc-colorgcc-3.3.1-2mdk
gcc-cpp-3.3.1-2mdk
gcc-doc-3.3.1-2mdk
gcc-doc-pdf-3.3.1-2mdk
gcc-g77-3.3.1-2mdk
gcc-gnat-3.3.1-2mdk
gcc-gpc-3.3.1-2mdk
gcc-java-3.3.1-2mdk
gcc-objc-3.3.1-2mdk
gcj-tools-3.3.1-2mdk
gdb-5.3-25mdk
gexif-0.5-5mdk
ghostscript-7.07-0.12mdk
ghostscript-module-X-7.07-0.12mdk
gimpprint-4.2.5-30mdk
glade-0.6.4-5mdk
glade2-2.0.0-3mdk
gnome-desktop-2.4.0-1mdk
gnome-mime-data-2.4.0-2mdk
gnome-pilot-2.0.10-3mdk
gnome-speech-0.2.7-1mdk
gnome-utils-2.4.0-1mdk
gpdf-0.110-1mdk
gphoto2-2.1.2-1mdk
gtk+2.0-2.2.4-2mdk
gtkam-0.1.11-0.dev1.6mdk
gtksourceview-0.6.0-4mdk
gucharmap-1.0.0-1mdk
g-wrap-1.3.4-9mdk
harddrake-9.2-16mdk
harddrake-ui-9.2-16mdk
icewm-1.2.13-0.3.1mdk
icewm-gnome-1.2.13-0.3.1mdk
icewm-light-1.2.13-0.3.1mdk
initscripts-7.06-32mdk
kdegraphics-3.1.3-35mdk
kdegraphics-common-3.1.3-35mdk
kdegraphics-kdvi-3.1.3-35mdk
kdegraphics-kfax-3.1.3-35mdk
kdegraphics-kghostview-3.1.3-35mdk
kdegraphics-kiconedit-3.1.3-35mdk
kdegraphics-kooka-3.1.3-35mdk
kdegraphics-kpaint-3.1.3-35mdk
kdegraphics-kpovmodeler-3.1.3-35mdk
kdegraphics-kruler-3.1.3-35mdk
kdegraphics-ksnapshot-3.1.3-35mdk
kdegraphics-kuickshow-3.1.3-35mdk
kdegraphics-kview-3.1.3-35mdk
kdegraphics-mrmlsearch-3.1.3-35mdk
kdeutils-3.1.3-20mdk
kdeutils-ark-3.1.3-20mdk
kdeutils-common-3.1.3-20mdk
kdeutils-kcalc-3.1.3-20mdk
kdeutils-kcharselect-3.1.3-20mdk
kdeutils-kdepasswd-3.1.3-20mdk
kdeutils-kdessh-3.1.3-20mdk
kdeutils-kdf-3.1.3-20mdk
kdeutils-kedit-3.1.3-20mdk
kdeutils-kfloppy-3.1.3-20mdk
kdeutils-khexedit-3.1.3-20mdk
kdeutils-kjots-3.1.3-20mdk
kdeutils-ksim-3.1.3-20mdk
kdeutils-ktimer-3.1.3-20mdk
lib64apr0-2.0.47-6mdk
lib64at-spi0-1.3.7-1mdk
lib64at-spi0-devel-1.3.7-1mdk
lib64cim3-3.36-5mdk
lib64cim3-devel-3.36-5mdk
lib64console0-0.2.3-46mdk
lib64console0-devel-0.2.3-46mdk
lib64console0-static-devel-0.2.3-46mdk
lib64cups2-1.1.19-10mdk
lib64cups2-devel-1.1.19-10mdk
lib64gail17-1.4.0-2mdk
lib64gail17-devel-1.4.0-2mdk
lib64gal2.0_5-1.99.9-3mdk
lib64gal2.0_5-devel-1.99.9-3mdk
lib64gdk_pixbuf2.0_0-2.2.4-2mdk
lib64gdk_pixbuf2.0_0-devel-2.2.4-2mdk
lib64gimpprint1-4.2.5-30mdk
lib64gimpprint1-devel-4.2.5-30mdk
lib64gnome-desktop-2_2-2.4.0-1mdk
lib64gnome-desktop-2_2-devel-2.4.0-1mdk
lib64gnome-pilot2-2.0.10-3mdk
lib64gnome-pilot2-devel-2.0.10-3mdk
lib64gnomespeech6-0.2.7-1mdk
lib64gnomespeech6-devel-0.2.7-1mdk
lib64gpio0-0.0.2-11mdk
lib64gpio0-devel-0.0.2-11mdk
lib64gtk+2.0_0-2.2.4-2mdk
lib64gtk+2.0_0-devel-2.2.4-2mdk
lib64gtk+-linuxfb-2.0_0-2.2.4-2mdk
lib64gtk+-linuxfb-2.0_0-devel-2.2.4-2mdk
lib64gtksourceview-1.0_0-0.6.0-4mdk
lib64gtksourceview-1.0_0-devel-0.6

Re: [Cooker] cooker alive and well

[Gwenole Beauchesne]

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Stefan van der Eijk wrote:

> I am automatically rebuilding cooker main and cooker contrib packages on 
> the amd64 box at CSC. I'm only uploading cooker contrib. But I also have 
> 271 cooker packages that can be uploaded, but I won't because I'm not 
> supposed to --> you said I couldn't.

Indeed, because there are no extra package you could provide in main that
are not already available. Unless you fixed the remaining ones that has
to.

> anyway, enjoy building manually... I keep track and I'll see the numbers 
> of packages that I _could_ upload go down, as you catch up :-)

Ahaha, you are really funny Stefan, packages I rebuild manually are those 
that needs to be fixed. But of course, I suppose your marvellous slbd 
script auto-fixes packages, isn't it?

Re: [Cooker] cooker alive and well

[Stefan van der Eijk]

Gwenole Beauchesne wrote:

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Stefan van der Eijk wrote:

 

We want the amd64 to be merged and finished before an opening.

 

I have 271 slbd built amd64 cooker packages that I can upload.
   

cooker packages or contrib packages? that's not the same...

I am automatically rebuilding cooker main and cooker contrib packages on 
the amd64 box at CSC. I'm only uploading cooker contrib. But I also have 
271 cooker packages that can be uploaded, but I won't because I'm not 
supposed to --> you said I couldn't.

anyway, enjoy building manually... I keep track and I'll see the numbers 
of packages that I _could_ upload go down, as you catch up :-)

regards,

Stefan



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Re: [Cooker] cooker alive and well

[Stefan van der Eijk]

Warly wrote:

Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 

FINALLY!
Cooker seems to be re-opened, so I hope we can stop all this political/ 
bureaucratic/philosophical banter and start developing an operating system  
again!
   

No it is not, just a mistake.

We want the amd64 to be merged and finished before an opening.

I have 271 slbd built amd64 cooker packages that I can upload.

Stefan




smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Re: [Cooker] cooker alive and well

[Gwenole Beauchesne]

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Stefan van der Eijk wrote:

> >We want the amd64 to be merged and finished before an opening.
> >
> I have 271 slbd built amd64 cooker packages that I can upload.

cooker packages or contrib packages? that's not the same...

Re: [Cooker] cooker alive and well

[Adam Williamson]

On Mon, 2003-10-06 at 14:26, Austin wrote:
> FINALLY!
> Cooker seems to be re-opened, so I hope we can stop all this political/ 
> bureaucratic/philosophical banter and start developing an operating system  
> again!

nonono. Now we can do BOTH, like normal. ;)
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] cooker alive and well

[Warly]

Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> FINALLY!
> Cooker seems to be re-opened, so I hope we can stop all this political/ 
> bureaucratic/philosophical banter and start developing an operating system  
> again!

No it is not, just a mistake.

We want the amd64 to be merged and finished before an opening.

-- 
Warly

Re: [Cooker] cooker alive and well

[Gwenole Beauchesne]

Hi,

Cooker seems to be re-opened,
No, it's normally not. Opened enough to upload the first round of ~100 
packages from my tree.

Bue,
Gwenole.

Re: [Cooker] [cooker]a new text editor (medit)

[Diego Iastrubni]

gtk or qt?

qt had one which supports bidi.
i think gtk has one too. 

ביום שישי, 12 בספטמבר 2003, 15:59, mohamed aslan כתב:
> i'm developing a new text editor
> which will support arabic language
>
>
> -
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

-- 

- diego
 ___ 
/ A clash of doctrine is not a disaster \
\ -- it is an opportunity.  /
 --- 
\   ^__^
 \  (xx)\___
(__)\   )\/\
 U  ||w |
|| ||

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: [Cooker] [cooker] http://members.optusnet.com.au/ronst/rsync-plus/rsync-plus_Mandrake_Downloader.html

[Ron Stodden]

ftp.praxad.fr is not a good choice of mirror.  You may choose any mirror 
that supports rsync access and has Mandrake stuff.

Try rsync://ftp.sunet.se:873

See the first few lines of your rsync-isoCD.pl

ftp.nluug.nl supports rsync access, but not to mandrake stuff.   To 
verify try:

rsync rsync://ftp.nluug.nl:873/pub/

Felix Miata wrote:
Link to iso9660 CDs is broken.

I'm trying to figure this out, but connection to your choice of mirror, 
ftp.praxad.fr, is being refused, preventing me from comparing its
directory structure to what I used wget to fetch from ftp.nluug.nl. It
looks different. Under the former is cooker/cooker-tree, while under the
latter is cooker/Mandrake, IIUC.

I was hoping to install from this this AM, since I can't get an install
from the 9.2rc1 iso's. Dunno if I'll ever figure this out.
--
Ron. [Melbourne, Australia]
"If you keep a green bough in your heart, the singing bird will come"
Get Fastest Mandrake downloader, English-only, from:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/ronst/   Click all ye faithful!

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Vincent Danen]

On Wed Sep 03, 2003 at 02:29:04PM +0200, Buchan Milne wrote:

[...]
> Take a look at the samba spec file, and you will see some good reasons
> for this. The fact that the compatability was kept with older releases
> meant that we could release samba-2.2.7a packages in updates for all
> supported distros, instead of Vince having to apply the patch to the
> ancient then-current packages for the specific distros, without ending
> up with extra packages (samba-winbind and nss_wins were introduced with
> 8.2 IIRC, 8.1 and earlier didn't have acl libraries, 9.2 will be the
> first with alternatives etc etc etc.). If you look at the samba FTP
> mirrors, you will also notice that we provide updated samba packages for
> all supported releases, built both with and without LDAP support
> (compile-time choice), building for an additional 10 point releases
> would be a waste of my time (=> I wouldn't do it).

Just to interject here considering I'm the one who does all the post-release
support.

There is no way in hell that I at all think this has any benefit whatsoever
to the distro (to put it bluntly).  It's nice and cosmetic and looks cute
(good for sales I guess), but is functionally useless.  And the extra work
involved as has been discussed already would make not only folks who support
older distribs in their packages (like samba), but everything a PITA.

If 9.2 and 9.2.1 have a different version of, say, openldap, then do I patch
both versions and release one for each, or use the same release for both?
If the former, too much work... if the latter, what's the point?  They're
the same packages anyways.

In other words, I *really* dislike this idea.

> Also, it really is only worthwhile bumping a release number if there are
> new features (this is what OSX does AFAIK, they don't have a new release
> just for security updates, no-one would pay for it - although maybe Mac
> users are content to pay for bugfixes ;-)).

No, those releases are free, like ours.  They're usually bugfixes and/or
feature enhancements... security updates come out dated (ie.
security-2003-09-02 or similar) as opposed to a package name.  So someone
who buys 10.2 doesn't have to pay for 10.2.1. 10.2.2, etc.  It's the base
they pay for: 10.1, 10.2, forthcoming 10.3, etc.  Minor point releases are
freebies.

For OS X, this makes sense.  The system isn't segmented into "packages" like
rpms and debs.  You have a .pkg which can encompass an entire subset of
apps, like a bsd.pkg might contain all the core unix underpinnings, a
devel.pkg might include library headers, compilers, etc.  But they don't
have gcc.pkg, db4.pkg, etc.  It totally makes sense to me in an OS X
context, but makes no sense whatsoever in a Linux rpm-based context.

-- 
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
"lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import"
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}



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Description: PGP signature

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[John Allen]

On Wednesday 03 September 2003 16:04, Radek Vybiral wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, John Allen wrote:
> > > Many packages takes version from /etc/mandrake-release, many commercial
> > > programs are build for exact version of release, etc.
> >
> > You could of course do this
> > Mandrake Linux release 9.2 Patch Level 0 (Cooker) for i586
> > Mandrake Linux release 9.2 Patch Level 1 (Cooker) for i586
> > .
> > .
>
> So tell me please when the patch level will be upped? Every last
> Sunday? Every Monday?
>

That would be a matter for MandrakeSoft; I would suggest possibly bi-monthly.

> MDK consits of many packages and there are only critical/security bug fix,
> common bug fix and enhancement as you see in MandrakeUpdate.
>
> R.V.

-- 
John Allen,  Email:  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
MandrakeClub Silver Member.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Radek Vybiral]

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, John Allen wrote:

> > Many packages takes version from /etc/mandrake-release, many commercial
> > programs are build for exact version of release, etc.
> >
> 
> You could of course do this
> Mandrake Linux release 9.2 Patch Level 0 (Cooker) for i586
> Mandrake Linux release 9.2 Patch Level 1 (Cooker) for i586
> .
> .

So tell me please when the patch level will be upped? Every last 
Sunday? Every Monday?

MDK consits of many packages and there are only critical/security bug fix, 
common bug fix and enhancement as you see in MandrakeUpdate.

R.V.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

John Allen wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 September 2003 15:06, Buchan Milne wrote:

>>So, submit a spec file that makes provision for slightly different
>>configurations (such as Mandrake 8.1's kernel update had acl support,
>>but no acl/attr libraries, so maybe 8.1.1 should have acl support but no
>>nss_wins/winbind support, maybe by 9.2.1 samba3 will be stable, so it
>>can build as the system samba and we won't need alternatives anymore,
>
>
> Hey I understand this, but if I was maintaining a a package I'd prefer
to have
> 9.2, 9.2.1, 9.2.2, 9.2.3 than 9.2 with any multitudinous combination of
> security and system updates installed.

Well, assuming everyone else assumes that all packages for 9.1 must be
functionally identical (ie same files, same provides, same features), I
don't, I just need to ensure my packages will be identical to the ones
already shipped. If you change the release number, I would guess that
either files, provides, or features of at least one package would have
changed, so I can't assume that 9.1.0 and 9.1.1 packages are
functionally equivalent => more work.

>>while we still need them on 9.2, but we still want people to be able to
>>build samba on 9.1 with alternatives if they really want to). Then, you
>>still need to test all these packages on all the releases (if you even
>>have enough machines/disk space/buildroots to build them all), and most
>>likely will need to fix a few things. Also, we have largely ignored
>>feature conditionals (anitvirus support on samba for example).
>
> Yes, its heap of work

You noticed?

> I spend all day every day doing it.

And some of us give up our free time maintaining packages, so we end up
spending a lrage proportion on non "day" doing it ... so don't expect us
to relish the idea of more of it for no apparent benefit.

- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
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Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[John Allen]

On Wednesday 03 September 2003 15:11, Buchan Milne wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> John Allen wrote:
> > On Wednesday 03 September 2003 14:54, Radek Vybiral wrote:
> >>You have missed the point, IMHO Götz wants sollution without
> >>{awk|sed|grep} where is possible to build all .rpm files on the
> >>various MDK releases from the same .spec file.
> >
> > But he was using awk in the original;
>
> And that's what you said was ugly (without a qualification of what
> specifically it was that was ugly, we assumed you meant using a
> conditional based on the distro, which is unavoidable).
>

What is ugly is having to test for a specific version of the distro rather 
than determining the distros features. Maybe we need an /etc/features 
indicating what features are supported.

> > the only difference here is that 9.2.1
> > will match 9.2.
>
> But who guarantees that 9.2.1 will be identical enough to 9.2 that they
> can be treated identically? And if they can, what is the use of using
> the point release at all then?
>

Well I guess all it tells you is that there has been some reasonable level of 
testing that a set of patches/updates work well together, and that they don't 
break any compatibility with the 9.2 release. eg. output formats for commands 
have not changed etc..

-- 
John Allen,  Email:  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
MandrakeClub Silver Member.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Han Boetes]

John Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How about
> %define buildfor_mdk90  %(cat /etc/mandrake-release | sed 's|.*release \([0-9\.]\+\) 
> .*|\1|g' | grep "^9.2")
>
> where /etc/mandrake/release contains
> Mandrake Linux release 9.2.1 (Cooker) for i586

cut -d' ' -f4 /etc/mandrake-release



# Han
-- 
http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanb/software
http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanb/documents/quotingguide.html

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

John Allen wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 September 2003 14:54, Radek Vybiral wrote:
>
>>You have missed the point, IMHO Götz wants sollution without
>>{awk|sed|grep} where is possible to build all .rpm files on the
>>various MDK releases from the same .spec file.
>
> But he was using awk in the original;

And that's what you said was ugly (without a qualification of what
specifically it was that was ugly, we assumed you meant using a
conditional based on the distro, which is unavoidable).

> the only difference here is that 9.2.1
> will match 9.2.

But who guarantees that 9.2.1 will be identical enough to 9.2 that they
can be treated identically? And if they can, what is the use of using
the point release at all then?

- --
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Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[John Allen]

On Wednesday 03 September 2003 15:06, Buchan Milne wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>

[snipped]

>
> But it still doesn't change the fact that needlessly adding releases
> makes life more difficult.
>
> Making a macro to detect the distro is the trivial part, ensuring the
> package builds correclty on all the releases is what takes the time.
>
> So, submit a spec file that makes provision for slightly different
> configurations (such as Mandrake 8.1's kernel update had acl support,
> but no acl/attr libraries, so maybe 8.1.1 should have acl support but no
> nss_wins/winbind support, maybe by 9.2.1 samba3 will be stable, so it
> can build as the system samba and we won't need alternatives anymore,

Hey I understand this, but if I was maintaining a a package I'd prefer to have 
9.2, 9.2.1, 9.2.2, 9.2.3 than 9.2 with any multitudinous combination of 
security and system updates installed.

> while we still need them on 9.2, but we still want people to be able to
> build samba on 9.1 with alternatives if they really want to). Then, you
> still need to test all these packages on all the releases (if you even
> have enough machines/disk space/buildroots to build them all), and most
> likely will need to fix a few things. Also, we have largely ignored
> feature conditionals (anitvirus support on samba for example).
>

Yes, its heap of work; I spend all day every day doing it.

-- 
John Allen,  Email:  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
MandrakeClub Silver Member.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Radek Vybiral]

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Robert Pollak wrote:

> This might be required when doing QA, to be able to compare the behavior 
> before/ after a bugfix.
> 
> And this might also be useful for the normal user when something gets 
> broken by an additional update. How will the user be able e.g. to go 
> from "9.2 + all updates until 2003-10-30 11:45 UTC" back to "9.2 + all 
> updates until 2003-10-15 03:57 UTC"?

Maybe /var/log/urpmi.log and 'grep "rpm:" /var/log/messages' helps you.
There are logs with time and date and if you are strictly relaying on rpm 
packages there is a possibility to step back to desired time and date.


R.V.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[John Allen]

On Wednesday 03 September 2003 14:54, Radek Vybiral wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, John Allen wrote:
> > On Wednesday 03 September 2003 14:29, Götz Waschk wrote:
> > > Am Mittwoch,  3. September 2003, 14:25:18 Uhr MET, schrieb John Allen:
> > > > > Check some .spec files for the line like this:
> > > > > %define buildfor_mdk90  %(awk '{print ($4 == "9.0")}'
> > > > > %{_sysconfdir}/mandrake-release)
> > > >
> > > > This is really crap; I thought that is what the GNU guys developed
> > > > autoconf for. Try to figure out what the system supports by testing
> > > > the system, bot checking some freaking version number.
> > >
> > > Feel free to replace this mechanism in my spec files by a better
> > > solution, I'll gladly accept patches.
> >
> > How about
> > %define buildfor_mdk90  %(cat /etc/mandrake-release | sed 's|.*release
> > \([0-9\.]\+\) .*|\1|g' | grep "^9.2")
> >
> > where /etc/mandrake/release contains
> > Mandrake Linux release 9.2.1 (Cooker) for i586
>
> You have missed the point, IMHO Götz wants sollution without
> {awk|sed|grep} where is possible to build all .rpm files on the
> various MDK releases from the same .spec file.
>

But he was using awk in the original; the only difference here is that 9.2.1 
will match 9.2.

>
> R.V.

-- 
John Allen,  Email:  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
MandrakeClub Silver Member.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

John Allen wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 September 2003 14:29, Götz Waschk wrote:
>
>>Am Mittwoch,  3. September 2003, 14:25:18 Uhr MET, schrieb John Allen:
>>
Check some .spec files for the line like this:
%define buildfor_mdk90  %(awk '{print ($4 == "9.0")}'
%{_sysconfdir}/mandrake-release)
>>>
>>>This is really crap; I thought that is what the GNU guys developed
>>>autoconf for. Try to figure out what the system supports by testing the
>>>system, bot checking some freaking version number.
>>
>>Feel free to replace this mechanism in my spec files by a better
>>solution, I'll gladly accept patches.
>
> How about
> %define buildfor_mdk90  %(cat /etc/mandrake-release | sed 's|.*release
\([0-9\.]\+\) .*|\1|g' | grep "^9.2")
>
> where /etc/mandrake/release contains
> Mandrake Linux release 9.2.1 (Cooker) for i586
>

But this isn't an improvement, it's just an additional macro (which
still needs some work).

We have %mdkversion now:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] bgmilne]$ cat /etc/mandrake-release
Mandrake Linux release 9.2 (Cooker) for i586
[EMAIL PROTECTED] bgmilne]$ rpm --eval %mdkversion
920

[EMAIL PROTECTED] bgmilne]$ cat /etc/mandrake-release
Mandrake Linux release 9.1 (Bamboo) for i586
[EMAIL PROTECTED] bgmilne]$ rpm --eval %mdkversion
910

But it didn't exist on 9.0:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] bgmilne]# cat /etc/mandrake-release
Mandrake Linux release 9.0 (dolphin) for i586
[EMAIL PROTECTED] bgmilne]# rpm --eval %mdkversion
%mdkversion

So you can't rely on it at present (or you have to backport it to your
spec file like I have done for a few others already).

But it still doesn't change the fact that needlessly adding releases
makes life more difficult.

Making a macro to detect the distro is the trivial part, ensuring the
package builds correclty on all the releases is what takes the time.

So, submit a spec file that makes provision for slightly different
configurations (such as Mandrake 8.1's kernel update had acl support,
but no acl/attr libraries, so maybe 8.1.1 should have acl support but no
nss_wins/winbind support, maybe by 9.2.1 samba3 will be stable, so it
can build as the system samba and we won't need alternatives anymore,
while we still need them on 9.2, but we still want people to be able to
build samba on 9.1 with alternatives if they really want to). Then, you
still need to test all these packages on all the releases (if you even
have enough machines/disk space/buildroots to build them all), and most
likely will need to fix a few things. Also, we have largely ignored
feature conditionals (anitvirus support on samba for example).

Just go count the lines of conditionals in a reasonable spec file
(kernel, gcc, kde, samba), and then consider how much bigger it would be
if we added an extra 2 point releases per current release.

I really don't think it's feasible without substantially more man-hours,
and I am not going to provide the additional man-hours (so here's your
opportunity!).

- --
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Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
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Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Radek Vybiral]

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, John Allen wrote:

> On Wednesday 03 September 2003 14:29, Götz Waschk wrote:
> > Am Mittwoch,  3. September 2003, 14:25:18 Uhr MET, schrieb John Allen:
> > > > Check some .spec files for the line like this:
> > > > %define buildfor_mdk90  %(awk '{print ($4 == "9.0")}'
> > > > %{_sysconfdir}/mandrake-release)
> > >
> > > This is really crap; I thought that is what the GNU guys developed
> > > autoconf for. Try to figure out what the system supports by testing the
> > > system, bot checking some freaking version number.
> >
> > Feel free to replace this mechanism in my spec files by a better
> > solution, I'll gladly accept patches.
> 
> 
> How about
> %define buildfor_mdk90  %(cat /etc/mandrake-release | sed 's|.*release \([0-9\.]\+\) 
> .*|\1|g' | grep "^9.2")
> 
> where /etc/mandrake/release contains
> Mandrake Linux release 9.2.1 (Cooker) for i586

You have missed the point, IMHO Götz wants sollution without 
{awk|sed|grep} where is possible to build all .rpm files on the 
various MDK releases from the same .spec file.


R.V.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Götz Waschk wrote:
> Am Mittwoch,  3. September 2003, 14:25:18 Uhr MET, schrieb John Allen:
>
>>>Check some .spec files for the line like this:
>>>%define buildfor_mdk90  %(awk '{print ($4 == "9.0")}'
>>>%{_sysconfdir}/mandrake-release)
>>
>>This is really crap; I thought that is what the GNU guys developed
autoconf
>>for. Try to figure out what the system supports by testing the system,
bot
>>checking some freaking version number.

autoconf doesn't help with setting buildrequires (for one). If I were to
remove the conditionals from samba, and still have the package be able
to build on 8.1, we wouldn't be guaranteed of ACL support in samba,
since I wouldn't be able to buildrequires the acl and attr devel packages.

> Feel free to replace this mechanism in my spec files by a better
> solution, I'll gladly accept patches.

I'm especially looking forward to the samba and samba3 patches ;-).

Regards,
Buchan

- --
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Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
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Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[John Allen]

On Wednesday 03 September 2003 14:29, Götz Waschk wrote:
> Am Mittwoch,  3. September 2003, 14:25:18 Uhr MET, schrieb John Allen:
> > > Check some .spec files for the line like this:
> > > %define buildfor_mdk90  %(awk '{print ($4 == "9.0")}'
> > > %{_sysconfdir}/mandrake-release)
> >
> > This is really crap; I thought that is what the GNU guys developed
> > autoconf for. Try to figure out what the system supports by testing the
> > system, bot checking some freaking version number.
>
> Feel free to replace this mechanism in my spec files by a better
> solution, I'll gladly accept patches.


How about
%define buildfor_mdk90  %(cat /etc/mandrake-release | sed 's|.*release \([0-9\.]\+\) 
.*|\1|g' | grep "^9.2")

where /etc/mandrake/release contains
Mandrake Linux release 9.2.1 (Cooker) for i586

-- 
John Allen,  Email:  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
MandrakeClub Silver Member.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Robert Pollak wrote:
> Radek Vybiral wrote:
>
>> You may get 9.2.1 = 9.2 + updates.
>
>
> This is generally fine for me. The one thing that is lost here is the
> possibility to go back to a certain configuration.
>
> This might be required when doing QA, to be able to compare the behavior
> before/ after a bugfix.
>
> And this might also be useful for the normal user when something gets
> broken by an additional update. How will the user be able e.g. to go
> from "9.2 + all updates until 2003-10-30 11:45 UTC" back to "9.2 + all
> updates until 2003-10-15 03:57 UTC"?
>

With no more difficulty than if you had a realease. How would *you* go
back from 9.2 to 9.1? If you want to be able to do this with a stable
release, mirror the updates tree without deleting old packages, and you
can generate your own hdlist daily. You still have the problem of
reverting to older packages (which can't really be avoided at all anyway).

Regards,
Buchan

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Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Götz Waschk]

Am Mittwoch,  3. September 2003, 14:25:18 Uhr MET, schrieb John Allen:
> > Check some .spec files for the line like this:
> > %define buildfor_mdk90  %(awk '{print ($4 == "9.0")}'
> > %{_sysconfdir}/mandrake-release)
> This is really crap; I thought that is what the GNU guys developed autoconf 
> for. Try to figure out what the system supports by testing the system, bot 
> checking some freaking version number.

Feel free to replace this mechanism in my spec files by a better
solution, I'll gladly accept patches. 
-- 
What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the
homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of
totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?
Mahatma Gandhi (1869 - 1948), "Non-Violence in Peace and War"

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[John Allen]

On Wednesday 03 September 2003 12:33, Radek Vybiral wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Svetoslav Slavtchev wrote:
> > > Many packages takes version from /etc/mandrake-release, many commercial
> > > programs are build for exact version of release, etc.
> >
> > really ?
> > this seems a bit strange for me
>
> Really.
>
> Check some .spec files for the line like this:
>
> %define buildfor_mdk90  %(awk '{print ($4 == "9.0")}'
> %{_sysconfdir}/mandrake-release)
>

This is really crap; I thought that is what the GNU guys developed autoconf 
for. Try to figure out what the system supports by testing the system, bot 
checking some freaking version number.

>
>
> R.V.

-- 
John Allen,  Email:  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
MandrakeClub Silver Member.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Robert Pollak]

Radek Vybiral wrote:
You may get 9.2.1 = 9.2 + updates.
This is generally fine for me. The one thing that is lost here is the 
possibility to go back to a certain configuration.

This might be required when doing QA, to be able to compare the behavior 
before/ after a bugfix.

And this might also be useful for the normal user when something gets 
broken by an additional update. How will the user be able e.g. to go 
from "9.2 + all updates until 2003-10-30 11:45 UTC" back to "9.2 + all 
updates until 2003-10-15 03:57 UTC"?

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[John Allen]

On Wednesday 03 September 2003 11:50, Radek Vybiral wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, John Allen wrote:
> > On Wednesday 03 September 2003 10:17, Radek Vybiral wrote:
> > > On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Robert Pollak wrote:
> > > > John Keller wrote:
> > > > > Cooker is always in flux but at certain moments, snapshots are
> > > > > made.
> > > >
> > > > Does this mean there will be no further stabilizing branch after 9.2,
> > > > to eventually get a 9.2.1?
> > >
> > > You may get 9.2.1 = 9.2 + updates.
> >
> > Whilst this is true, it would perhaps be better to have a real 9.2.1,
> > 9.2.2 etc
> >
> > ie. official points in time that reflect a 9.2 + a specific set of
> > updates. the /etc/mandrake-release file should also say 9.2.1 etc...
>
> Hmm, you are wrong again...
>
> I guess you are too young in this Unix/Linux world. I don't know about any
> Unix system which goes through the way you are describing.
>

Wrong again; been working with Unix systems for the last 18 years.

> We have systems with service packs, patched, build ID greater than release
> build, but major release number is always without touch.
>
> Many packages takes version from /etc/mandrake-release, many commercial
> programs are build for exact version of release, etc.
>

You could of course do this
Mandrake Linux release 9.2 Patch Level 0 (Cooker) for i586
Mandrake Linux release 9.2 Patch Level 1 (Cooker) for i586
.
.
.
.

> It will be also a headache for users if they will be forced to upgrade to
> the latest version because all packages reguires 9.2.1...
>
> R.V.

-- 
John Allen,  Email:  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
MandrakeClub Silver Member.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Svetoslav Slavtchev]

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- 
> Hash: SHA1 
>  
> Svetoslav Slavtchev wrote: 
> >>On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, John Allen wrote: 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>On Wednesday 03 September 2003 10:17, Radek Vybiral wrote: 
> >>> 
> On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Robert Pollak wrote: 
> >Does this mean there will be no further stabilizing branch after 
> >>9.2, to 
> >  eventually get a 9.2.1? 
>  
> You may get 9.2.1 = 9.2 + updates. 
> >>>Whilst this is true, it would perhaps be better to have a real 9.2.1, 
> >>>9.2.2 
> >>>etc 
>  
> > may be when there are important bug-fixes(updates) 
> > a metapackage for all the updates could be provided 
> > and increase the release number 
>  
> This: 
> a)Serves no purpose 
> b)Creates extra unnecessary complication for people who ensure their 
> packages are still usable on older distros. 
 
OK :) 
 
svetljo 
>  
> >>We have systems with service packs, patched, build ID greater than 
> release 
> >>build, but major release number is always without touch. 
> >> 
> >>Many packages takes version from /etc/mandrake-release, many commercial 
> >>programs are build for exact version of release, etc. 
> > 
> > really ? 
> > this seems a bit strange for me 
>  
> Take a look at the samba spec file, and you will see some good reasons 
> for this. The fact that the compatability was kept with older releases 
> meant that we could release samba-2.2.7a packages in updates for all 
> supported distros, instead of Vince having to apply the patch to the 
> ancient then-current packages for the specific distros, without ending 
> up with extra packages (samba-winbind and nss_wins were introduced with 
> 8.2 IIRC, 8.1 and earlier didn't have acl libraries, 9.2 will be the 
> first with alternatives etc etc etc.). If you look at the samba FTP 
> mirrors, you will also notice that we provide updated samba packages for 
> all supported releases, built both with and without LDAP support 
> (compile-time choice), building for an additional 10 point releases 
> would be a waste of my time (=> I wouldn't do it). 
>  
> Also, it really is only worthwhile bumping a release number if there are 
> new features (this is what OSX does AFAIK, they don't have a new release 
> just for security updates, no-one would pay for it - although maybe Mac 
> users are content to pay for bugfixes ;-)). 
>  
> Regards, 
> Buchan 
>  
> - -- 
> |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| 
> Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager 
> Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 
> Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za 
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Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Svetoslav Slavtchev]

> On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Svetoslav Slavtchev wrote: 
>  
> > > Many packages takes version from /etc/mandrake-release, many 
> commercial   
> > > programs are build for exact version of release, etc.  
> >   
> > really ?  
> > this seems a bit strange for me  
> >   
>  
> Really. 
>  
> Check some .spec files for the line like this: 
>  
> %define buildfor_mdk90  %(awk '{print ($4 == "9.0")}' 
> %{_sysconfdir}/mandrake-release) 
 
i'm aware of that, 
but how many users are going to rebuild packages on their systems ? 
 
i was asking how many built packages wont run if the release changes  
 
svetljo 

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Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Svetoslav Slavtchev wrote:
>>On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, John Allen wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Wednesday 03 September 2003 10:17, Radek Vybiral wrote:
>>>
On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Robert Pollak wrote:
>Does this mean there will be no further stabilizing branch after
>>9.2, to
>  eventually get a 9.2.1?

You may get 9.2.1 = 9.2 + updates.
>>>Whilst this is true, it would perhaps be better to have a real 9.2.1,
>>>9.2.2
>>>etc

> may be when there are important bug-fixes(updates)
> a metapackage for all the updates could be provided
> and increase the release number

This:
a)Serves no purpose
b)Creates extra unnecessary complication for people who ensure their
packages are still usable on older distros.

>>We have systems with service packs, patched, build ID greater than release
>>build, but major release number is always without touch.
>>
>>Many packages takes version from /etc/mandrake-release, many commercial
>>programs are build for exact version of release, etc.
>
> really ?
> this seems a bit strange for me

Take a look at the samba spec file, and you will see some good reasons
for this. The fact that the compatability was kept with older releases
meant that we could release samba-2.2.7a packages in updates for all
supported distros, instead of Vince having to apply the patch to the
ancient then-current packages for the specific distros, without ending
up with extra packages (samba-winbind and nss_wins were introduced with
8.2 IIRC, 8.1 and earlier didn't have acl libraries, 9.2 will be the
first with alternatives etc etc etc.). If you look at the samba FTP
mirrors, you will also notice that we provide updated samba packages for
all supported releases, built both with and without LDAP support
(compile-time choice), building for an additional 10 point releases
would be a waste of my time (=> I wouldn't do it).

Also, it really is only worthwhile bumping a release number if there are
new features (this is what OSX does AFAIK, they don't have a new release
just for security updates, no-one would pay for it - although maybe Mac
users are content to pay for bugfixes ;-)).

Regards,
Buchan

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Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Radek Vybiral]

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Svetoslav Slavtchev wrote:

> > Many packages takes version from /etc/mandrake-release, many commercial  
> > programs are build for exact version of release, etc. 
>  
> really ? 
> this seems a bit strange for me 
>  

Really.

Check some .spec files for the line like this:

%define buildfor_mdk90  %(awk '{print ($4 == "9.0")}' %{_sysconfdir}/mandrake-release)



R.V.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Svetoslav Slavtchev]

> On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, John Allen wrote: 
>  
> > On Wednesday 03 September 2003 10:17, Radek Vybiral wrote: 
> > > On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Robert Pollak wrote: 
> > > > John Keller wrote: 
> > > > > Cooker is always in flux but at certain moments, snapshots are 
> made. 
> > > > 
> > > > Does this mean there will be no further stabilizing branch after 
> 9.2, to 
> > > >   eventually get a 9.2.1? 
> > > 
> > > You may get 9.2.1 = 9.2 + updates. 
> > > 
> >  
> > Whilst this is true, it would perhaps be better to have a real 9.2.1, 
> 9.2.2  
> > etc 
> >  
> > ie. official points in time that reflect a 9.2 + a specific set of 
> updates. 
> > the /etc/mandrake-release file should also say 9.2.1 etc... 
>  
> Hmm, you are wrong again... 
>  
> I guess you are too young in this Unix/Linux world. I don't know about any

>  
> Unix system which goes through the way you are describing. 
 
only a single new commer -> Mac OS X 
but only as a online update  
 
may be when there are important bug-fixes(updates)  
a metapackage for all the updates could be provided 
and increase the release number 
 
> We have systems with service packs, patched, build ID greater than release

>  
> build, but major release number is always without touch. 
>
> Many packages takes version from /etc/mandrake-release, many commercial  
> programs are build for exact version of release, etc. 
 
really ? 
this seems a bit strange for me 
 
> It will be also a headache for users if they will be forced to upgrade to 

> the latest version because all packages reguires 9.2.1... 
>  
> R.V. 
>  
 
best, 
 
svetljo  

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Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Radek Vybiral]

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, John Allen wrote:

> On Wednesday 03 September 2003 10:17, Radek Vybiral wrote:
> > On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Robert Pollak wrote:
> > > John Keller wrote:
> > > > Cooker is always in flux but at certain moments, snapshots are made.
> > >
> > > Does this mean there will be no further stabilizing branch after 9.2, to
> > >   eventually get a 9.2.1?
> >
> > You may get 9.2.1 = 9.2 + updates.
> >
> 
> Whilst this is true, it would perhaps be better to have a real 9.2.1, 9.2.2 
> etc
> 
> ie. official points in time that reflect a 9.2 + a specific set of updates.
> the /etc/mandrake-release file should also say 9.2.1 etc...

Hmm, you are wrong again...

I guess you are too young in this Unix/Linux world. I don't know about any 
Unix system which goes through the way you are describing.

We have systems with service packs, patched, build ID greater than release 
build, but major release number is always without touch.
  
Many packages takes version from /etc/mandrake-release, many commercial 
programs are build for exact version of release, etc.

It will be also a headache for users if they will be forced to upgrade to 
the latest version because all packages reguires 9.2.1...

R.V.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[John Allen]

On Wednesday 03 September 2003 10:17, Radek Vybiral wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Robert Pollak wrote:
> > John Keller wrote:
> > > Cooker is always in flux but at certain moments, snapshots are made.
> >
> > Does this mean there will be no further stabilizing branch after 9.2, to
> >   eventually get a 9.2.1?
>
> You may get 9.2.1 = 9.2 + updates.
>

Whilst this is true, it would perhaps be better to have a real 9.2.1, 9.2.2 
etc

ie. official points in time that reflect a 9.2 + a specific set of updates.
the /etc/mandrake-release file should also say 9.2.1 etc...

> R.V.

-- 
John Allen,  Email:  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
MandrakeClub Silver Member.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Radek Vybiral]

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Robert Pollak wrote:

> John Keller wrote:
> > Cooker is always in flux but at certain moments, snapshots are made.
> 
> Does this mean there will be no further stabilizing branch after 9.2, to 
>   eventually get a 9.2.1?
> 

You may get 9.2.1 = 9.2 + updates.

R.V.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[Robert Pollak]

John Keller wrote:
Cooker is always in flux but at certain moments, snapshots are made.
Does this mean there will be no further stabilizing branch after 9.2, to 
 eventually get a 9.2.1?

Sure, the situation is a bit different than in normal sw development, 
where e.g. Mozilla 1.4 got the chance to mature to 1.4.1 (soon to be 
released), while the main line grew into the more unstable 1.5 alpha and 
beta.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker and the 9.2 release

[John Keller]

Robert Pollak wrote:
> Has ML9.2 development already branched from Cooker, or is Cooker going
> to stabilize now until it is tagged "9.2"?
>
> IOW: When I use Cooker to verify fixes of 9.2rc1 errors, will they be
> fixed in the final 9.2, too?

Yes, that's correct.

Cooker is always in flux but at certain moments, snapshots are made.
Normally, there should also be an RC2 before 9.2 final.

You may also be interested in the information on the Wiki. There's an
estimated timeline at:
http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/ReleaseInfo

So, until 9.2 final is announced, happy bug hunting!

- John

P.S. You may want to consider removing your "reply-to" setting in your mail
client, as it overrides the ability to automatically reply to the list.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker text-mode install bugs 20030826

[Pixel]

Thomas Backlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> At the beginning when you have to accept or decline the license 
> agreement, the buttons are too small for the Finnish locale 
> (both need current width +4 chars)

twas a bug in newt which thinks everything is utf8 nowadays (hint:
it's redhat software)

it's now fixed.

i've not looked at every bug you reported. Please try next install
(DrakX #1.829) and repost with the parts that are still valid.

thanks!

Re: [Cooker] Cooker graphical install bugs 20030826

[Guillaume Cottenceau]

Thomas Backlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > > - kde locales was not selected according to selected locales at the
> > >   beginning...
> >
> > Can you send /root/drakx/report.bug.gz please? (to this list or
> > to a public url)
> 
> Sorry, but since I had to do a reboot when the installer
> hanged itself, theese are the only files I have:
> auto_inst.cfg.pl  
> ddebug.log  
> install.log  
> 
> you can get them at:
> www.iki.fi/tmb/Cooker/install_bugs_20030826.tar.bz2

Francois, seems that kde-i18n-{sv,fi,en_GB} were selected, but
then have been unselected during the individual package
selection.. any idea?

-- 
Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/

Re: [Cooker] Cooker graphical install bugs 20030826

[Thomas Backlund]

Guillaume Cottenceau kirjoitti viestissään (lähetysaika Torstai 28. Elokuuta 
2003 15:17):
> Thomas Backlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Synced Cooker as of 20030826, 10:00 UTC,
>
> What helps is the build of the install. You can get it on console
> #2 during install or by cat'ing Mandrake/mdkinst/usr/share/VERSION.
>
Sorry, no can do ;-(
I have synced my cooker mirror since the install...

> > - kde locales was not selected according to selected locales at the
> >   beginning...
>
> Can you send /root/drakx/report.bug.gz please? (to this list or
> to a public url)

Sorry, but since I had to do a reboot when the installer
hanged itself, theese are the only files I have:
auto_inst.cfg.pl  
ddebug.log  
install.log  

you can get them at:
www.iki.fi/tmb/Cooker/install_bugs_20030826.tar.bz2

Thomas

Re: [Cooker] Cooker graphical install bugs 20030826

[Guillaume Cottenceau]

Thomas Backlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Synced Cooker as of 20030826, 10:00 UTC, 

What helps is the build of the install. You can get it on console
#2 during install or by cat'ing Mandrake/mdkinst/usr/share/VERSION.

> - kde locales was not selected according to selected locales at the
>   beginning...

Can you send /root/drakx/report.bug.gz please? (to this list or
to a public url)
 
-- 
Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/

Re: [Cooker] Cooker is in frozen state.

[Radek Vybiral]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Quel Qun wrote:

> On Wed, 2003-08-27 at 06:54, Warly wrote:
> > New versions will only be allowed for important bug fixing.

Is this mean that OpenOffice.org 1.1 RCx will not be in 9.2?

R.V.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker is in frozen state.

[Quel Qun]

On Wed, 2003-08-27 at 06:54, Warly wrote:
> New versions will only be allowed for important bug fixing.
We cannot make isos:

URPM object version 0.94 does not match bootstrap parameter 0.93 at
/data/cooker//Mandrake/mdkinst/usr/lib/perl5/5.8.1//i386-linux-thread-multi/DynaLoader.pm
 line 249.
Compilation failed in require at
/data/cooker//misc/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/Mkcd/Tools.pm line 12.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at
/data/cooker//misc/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/Mkcd/Tools.pm line 12.
Compilation failed in require at /data/cooker//misc/mkcd line 11.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /data/cooker//misc/mkcd line 11.

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| |_| | |_/ |
| / / -_) | / / |
|_\_\___|_|_\_\_| @ sbcglobal.net



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Re: [Cooker] cooker font rendering -- touching perfection

[Adam Williamson]

On Wed, 2003-08-27 at 03:11, Andre Lourenco wrote:
> congratulations to everyone working to get fonts
> working better, cause they are looking just great in
> recent cookers. i had a mirror problem since 20th
> (solved today) and i can tell you that fonts are 100x
> better than they were a week ago.

Eh? They look exactly as they have since freetype 2.1.4 and the Vera
fonts went in here, and that was weeks ago...
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] Cooker is in frozen state.

[John Keller]

John Keller wrote:
> Also, maybe the Bittorrent notice on the front page should be
> larger.integrated with the status page (not exclusively, but in addition
to
> the front page). I didn't do it because the current BT files don't
download
> for me.

With Warly's official announcement of the BitTorrent files, I've already
modified the Wiki home and the Mandrake92 pages to reflect the new ISO BT
sources.

But release the hounds to update the Mandrake92 release page, anyway! :-)

- John

Re: [Cooker] Cooker graphical install bugs 20030826

[Thierry Vignaud]

Thomas Backlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

<(not a top-post answer> please sent splitted bug reports, one item
per mail so that threads do not badly get
mixed for different bugs (idem for bugzilla)

> Synced Cooker as of 20030826, 10:00 UTC, 
> and executed gendistrib...
> Install-mode: expert, using network.img
> Locale: fi, UTF8
> 
> nforce2 system, 1GB RAM...
> 
> most buttons for advanced / extra options shows the wrong caption
> when install is started with "linux expert"...
> - ex. a button shows "advanced" even if the advanced mode is already 
>   active. pushing it one will get you to standard mode with the caption
>   "advanced" on the button. Pressing it again will put you in advanced
>   mode again, but this time with the right caption ("standard") on the 
>   button...

i fixed this one last week. changelog extract:

>>
> 2003-08-22 14:59  Thierry Vignaud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  >
>>
>   * interactive/gtk.pm: (ask_fromW) split $set_advanced into  >
>   $set_advanced and $set_advanced_raw to fix drakconnect "failling"   >
>   to detect network interfaces in standalone mode when in expert  >
>   mode>
>>


> packages selection:
> - enterprise kernel was not selected, even if I had 1GB of ram...
> - kde locales was not selected according to selected locales at the
>   beginning...

pixel ? 

 
> summary screen:
> - I chose network, but then decided to not change anyhing,
>   but there was no "cancel" button... so I tried to leave everything
>   unselected and pressed next -> installer hanged itself there :(
>   I waited for 10 minutes before changing to console and did
> reboot...

poulpy ?

 
> New user wizard:
> - this window IMHO need some kind of frame to separate it better from
>   the background when you choose / have chosen a kde theme...

warly ?
 
 
> And last a _BAD BUG_ that I noticed now
> - since I also installed the 2.6 kernel from contribs,
>   this happend in /boot: (symlinks)
>   vmlinuz -> vmlinuz-2.6.0-0.test4.1mdk
>   initrd.img -> initrd-2.6.0-0.test4.1mdk.img
> 
> And the original up kernel got installed as:
> (wich ofcouse is working)
>   image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.4.22-0.8mdk
>   ...
>   initrd=/boot/initrd-2.4.22-0.8mdk.img 
> 
> 
> BUT ...
> since the installer adds nonfb and failsafe according to
> vmlinuz/initrd.img we will have people that will boot into
> 2.6test kernel when they try to fix a problem with failsafe mode :(
> 
> So the question is ... 
> Is it possible for the installer and/or installkernel to _not_ modify
> symlinks in /boot unless the kernel is in main ?
> 
> one way is of course to add -L to /sbin/installkernel in
> %post scripts for contrib kernels

pixel ?

Re: [Cooker] Cooker is in frozen state.

[John Keller]

Warly wrote:
> New versions will only be allowed for important bug fixing.

This may be a good time to update the release status page in Wiki:
http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/Mandrake92

I've taken a first step and removed the "old kernel in B1" info, as well as
some tidying up the formatting (sort of a non-sandbox sandbox). Buchan: the
status gauges work if you give each a unique name.

Also, maybe the Bittorrent notice on the front page should be
larger.integrated with the status page (not exclusively, but in addition to
the front page). I didn't do it because the current BT files don't download
for me.

Release the hounds!

- John

Re: [Cooker] Cooker is in frozen state.

[Götz Waschk]

Am Mittwoch, 27. August 2003, 15:54:07 Uhr MET, schrieb Warly:
> New versions will only be allowed for important bug fixing.

I'd like to upload gstreamer-plugins 0.6.3, but first gstreamer 0.6.3
has to appear on klama. 
 
-- 
What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the
homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of
totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?
Mahatma Gandhi (1869 - 1948), "Non-Violence in Peace and War"

Re: [Cooker] Cooker kdepim-3.1.3-12mdk.i586.rpm is empty

[Levi Ramsey]

On Tue Aug 26 13:14 +0200, Aleksander Adamowski wrote:
> I've synced my machine with latest cooker recently, and I've discovered 
> that I cannot run korganizer - it's not present.
> 
> I've downloaded the kdepim-3.1.3-12mdk.i586.rpm package manually, and it 
> turns out it's empty - there are no files inside, only RPM metadata.

Try something like kdepim-korganizer, perhaps?

-- 
Levi Ramsey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Take due notice and govern yourselves accordingly.
Currently playing: Metallica - ReLoad - Bad Seed
Linux 2.4.21-3mdk
 11:58:00 up 21 days, 21:16, 10 users,  load average: 0.89, 1.18, 0.95

Re: [Cooker] Cooker mirrors pbm?

[parag shah]

On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 08:51:43AM +0100, Frederic Soulier wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I've been experiencing pbms with keeping a good local mirror of cooker
> for HD installations. I'm using sunsite.uio.no and one of the last sync
> triggered a massive number of deletions!
> 
> For example (and this is only a tiny listing of what was deleted...):
> 
> ...
> deleting i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-xfs-4.3-19mdk.i586.rpm
> deleting i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-server-4.3-19mdk.i586.rpm
> deleting i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-glide-module-4.3-19mdk.i586.rpm
> deleting i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-doc-4.3-19mdk.i586.rpm
> deleting i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-cyrillic-fonts-4.3-19mdk.i586.rpm
> deleting i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-Xvfb-4.3-19mdk.i586.rpm
> deleting i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-Xnest-4.3-19mdk.i586.rpm
> deleting i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-75dpi-fonts-4.3-19mdk.i586.rpm
> deleting i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-4.3-19mdk.i586.rpm
> deleting i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-100dpi-fonts-4.3-19mdk.i586.rpm
> deleting i586/Mandrake/RPMS/X11R6-contrib-4.3-19mdk.i586.rpm
> 
> 
> In my local tree I have:
> /mnt/cooker/cooker/i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-xfs-4.3-18mdk.i586.rpm
> /mnt/cooker/cooker/i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-server-4.3-18mdk.i586.rpm
> /mnt/cooker/cooker/i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-glide-module-4.3-18mdk.i586.rpm
> /mnt/cooker/cooker/i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-doc-4.3-18mdk.i586.rpm
> /mnt/cooker/cooker/i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-cyrillic-fonts-4.3-18mdk.i586.rpm
> /mnt/cooker/cooker/i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-Xvfb-4.3-18mdk.i586.rpm
> /mnt/cooker/cooker/i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-Xnest-4.3-18mdk.i586.rpm
> /mnt/cooker/cooker/i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-75dpi-fonts-4.3-18mdk.i586.rpm
> /mnt/cooker/cooker/i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-4.3-18mdk.i586.rpm
> /mnt/cooker/cooker/i586/Mandrake/RPMS/XFree86-100dpi-fonts-4.3-18mdk.i586.rpm
> /mnt/cooker/cooker/i586/Mandrake/RPMS/X11R6-contrib-4.3-18mdk.i586.rpm
> 
> 
> So the -18mdk was kept and -19mdk was deleted... Why?
> Note: This is only for XFree* packages... There was at least 200
> deletions in /RPMS and /mdkinst had quite a lot deleted as well.
> 
> Can someone shed some light on the mirror situation?
> 
> Thanks.

Checking the mirror you can see somehow all the packages from 13th Aug
onwards are missing from the tree and that explains massive del of files
you noticed. I personaly feel some glitch or error while makeing beta3
snapshot as i also see all the kernels missing as well :(( 

regards,

parag 

Re: [Cooker] Cooker tester

[Radek Vybiral]

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003, Greg Meyer wrote:

> On Tuesday 19 August 2003 05:08 am, Radek Vybiral wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have installed Beta2 from ISOs and I'd like to become a Cooker tester.
> > So I added Cooker-main and Cooker-contrib FTP URLs to the list of packages
> > in MDK Control Center.
> >
> > But Mandrake Update says there are no new packages to update...
> >
> > How to start download and testing Cooker packages?
> 
> http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/CookerHowTo#Keeping_Your_Cooker_Installation
> 


OK, this works very well.

R.V.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker tester

[Greg Meyer]

On Tuesday 19 August 2003 05:08 am, Radek Vybiral wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have installed Beta2 from ISOs and I'd like to become a Cooker tester.
> So I added Cooker-main and Cooker-contrib FTP URLs to the list of packages
> in MDK Control Center.
>
> But Mandrake Update says there are no new packages to update...
>
> How to start download and testing Cooker packages?

http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/CookerHowTo#Keeping_Your_Cooker_Installation
-- 
/g

"Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book, inside
a dog it's too dark to read" -Groucho Marx

Re: [Cooker] Cooker tester

[Adam Williamson]

On Tue, 2003-08-19 at 10:08, Radek Vybiral wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have installed Beta2 from ISOs and I'd like to become a Cooker tester. 
> So I added Cooker-main and Cooker-contrib FTP URLs to the list of packages 
> in MDK Control Center. 
> 
> But Mandrake Update says there are no new packages to update...
> 
> How to start download and testing Cooker packages?

Not with Mandrake Update. use urpmi --auto-select -v from a console, or
use rpmdrake and the "updateable packages" (or whatever it's called now)
filter.
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] Cooker installation report

[Guillaume Cottenceau]

Frederic Soulier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> 2) Printer Configuration (Epson Stylus Photo 870, USB)
>I tried to print a test page bit got nothing at all
>The following command was issued (Ctrl-Alt-F3)
> 
> * running: /usr/bin/foomatic-printjob -s cups -P ep870_cooker_
> /usr/share/printer-testpages/testprint.ps with root /mnt
> 
> After that (although nothing was printed) the installer GUI started to
> be very unresponsive... Also my connected USB hard drive had the red
> light on (like it was accessed) and this did not stop even when I was
> rebooting... I had to switch the USB HD off and back on again.
> 
> Could it be there is a bad interaction between the USB HD and the USB
> printer or something?

do you use an usb hub by any chance? seems there are some kernel
problems with them when it goes to usb-keyboards, that may be
related.

-- 
Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/

Re: [Cooker] Cooker installation report (not good)

[Adam Williamson]

On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 22:21, guran wrote:
> On Saturday 16 August 2003 22.38, Duncan wrote:
> > On Sat 16 Aug 2003 05:23, Frederic Soulier posted as excerpted below:
> > > 3) Missing KDE programs (eg Konsole)
> >
> > Konsole was just split off of kdebase.  It's now a separate package,
> > kdebase-konsole, or some such.  I think it should still be installed by
> > default, but either it isn't tweaked to do so when selecting KDE yet, due
> > the the newness of the split, or others think otherwise, it would seem
> This has happened for me a couple of times now, and I am afraid that someone 
> might be trying to do the same mistake as RedHat has been doing, forcing the 
> user away from KDE. to the slower and rigid Gnome.
> Pathetic, if this is the case.
> guran

However, you're being paranoid and unhelpful. KDE is being split up
because it makes perfect sense to split KDE up, and what you're seeing
is teething troubles, and the reason you're seeing them is because this
is Cooker, where teething troubles happen. Don't like 'em, go elsewhere.
See, no need to panic.
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] Cooker installation report (not good)

[guran]

On Saturday 16 August 2003 22.38, Duncan wrote:
> On Sat 16 Aug 2003 05:23, Frederic Soulier posted as excerpted below:
> > 3) Missing KDE programs (eg Konsole)
>
> Konsole was just split off of kdebase.  It's now a separate package,
> kdebase-konsole, or some such.  I think it should still be installed by
> default, but either it isn't tweaked to do so when selecting KDE yet, due
> the the newness of the split, or others think otherwise, it would seem
This has happened for me a couple of times now, and I am afraid that someone 
might be trying to do the same mistake as RedHat has been doing, forcing the 
user away from KDE. to the slower and rigid Gnome.
Pathetic, if this is the case.
guran
-- 
Mandrake Linux Cooker 9.2 kernel-2.4.22.0.6mdk-1-1mdk

Only in a society that has 'a priori' defined what is the truth
can the result from the evolution of life be defined false.

Re: [Cooker] Cooker installation report (not good)

[Duncan]

On Sat 16 Aug 2003 05:23, Frederic Soulier posted as excerpted below:
> 3) Missing KDE programs (eg Konsole)

Konsole was just split off of kdebase.  It's now a separate package, 
kdebase-konsole, or some such.  I think it should still be installed by 
default, but either it isn't tweaked to do so when selecting KDE yet, due the 
the newness of the split, or others think otherwise, it would seem

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin

Re: [Cooker] Cooker Installation Report (hd.img)

[Daouda LO]

Frederic Soulier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi
> 
> Installing Grub on dedicated boot partition /dev/hde1 (I have xosl on a
> dedicated FAT16 partition on /dev/hda1 which I use to choose which OS to
> boot). I'm then presented with a screen asking me from which drive I'm
> booting. I don't understand the purpose of this screen... I've already
> indicated to the installer I want Grub on /dev/hde1
> 
> Also several packages were missing during the installation (wrong
> hdlist?)
>linuxconf-lib-1.29r3-4mdk
>linuxconf-1.29r3-4mdk

Moved to contribs. Warly is fixing ...

[...]

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Thomas Backlund]

From: "Buchan Milne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Thierry Vignaud wrote:
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > supermount-ng is on the list.
> > don't know for acl. nicolas ?
> >
> 
> http://www.linux-mandrake.com/ is not accessible at present, but I am
> sure ACLs was listed as a feature for 9.1, and is quite an important
> feature for people running samba (only SuSE has ACL support in their
> current release).
> 
> ACLs on XFS are running fine on our new server running Danny's -22mdk
> (which has Thomas' xfs+acl patch) on 9.1.
> 
> Regards,
> Buchan
> 

AFAIK a new kernel update for 9.1 is on the way...
(the one Juan is working on right now...)

If I understand it correctly, the ACL for XFS will be in it,
and also a fixed ipsec/freeswan, and then some 

More and better info on this will be available when
the kernel is released...

Thomas

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Thomas Backlund wrote:
> From: "Buchan Milne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> AFAIK a new kernel update for 9.1 is on the way...
> (the one Juan is working on right now...)
>

But there hasn't been one kernel update for 8.2 or 9.0 yet, which are
still officially supported according to the policies on
mandrakesecure.net. And 9.0 had ACLs on ext2/ext3 also ...

> If I understand it correctly, the ACL for XFS will be in it,
> and also a fixed ipsec/freeswan, and then some 
>

Great!

> More and better info on this will be available when
> the kernel is released...

Well, it might be an idea if the info were made available *before* being
released ... it might calm some nerves.

BTW:

> the new kernel is installed now. Works so far (I didn't test
> all yet). However, the PCMCIA problem remains:
>
> 00:09.0 CardBus bridge: ENE Technology Inc CB1410 Cardbus Controller
>   Subsystem: Mitac: Unknown device 8640
>   Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 192, IRQ 17
>   Memory at 10001000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
>   Bus: primary=00, secondary=02, subordinate=05, sec-latency=64
>   I/O window 0: -0003
>   I/O window 1: -0003
>   16-bit legacy interface ports at 0001
>
> cardctl status
> no pcmcia driver in /proc/devices
>
> Well, I give up for now and hope, that this kernel is
> stable. As the winmodem should work, I don't need PCMCIA
> for now.

This user is running -22mdk on 9.1. With the rc1 kernel from cooker, he
had pcmcia support, but not with 0.13mdk or 0.18mdk. But -22mdk is the
only kernel usable by him at present, due to the fixes it has.

I can ask him for more detail if necessary.

Regards,
Buchan

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Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Thierry Vignaud wrote:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> supermount-ng is on the list.
> don't know for acl. nicolas ?
>

http://www.linux-mandrake.com/ is not accessible at present, but I am
sure ACLs was listed as a feature for 9.1, and is quite an important
feature for people running samba (only SuSE has ACL support in their
current release).

ACLs on XFS are running fine on our new server running Danny's -22mdk
(which has Thomas' xfs+acl patch) on 9.1.

Regards,
Buchan

- --
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Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
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Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Thierry Vignaud]

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > > Anyway the whole story is so fragile that this is the minor
> > > problem.
> > 
> > yes, it only fix the symptoms and hide the real problem (me trying
> > to pressure planel so that he pressure juan so that your patch is
> > merged) ...
> 
> Well, Andreys patch doesn't fix this specific problem. But while
> your pressuring, add supermount-ng and ACL on XFS to the list;)

supermount-ng is on the list.
don't know for acl. nicolas ?

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Thierry Vignaud]

"Andrey Borzenkov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> one possibility is to leave DELETE uncommented but then it will
> result in error message every time after /lib/dev-state/log has been
> removed the first time

the new postin script should be enough now (in order to fix the
symptom that is)
if only the kernel team could release faster ... :-(

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[danny]

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Thierry Vignaud wrote:
> > Anyway the whole story is so fragile that this is the minor problem.
> 
> yes, it only fix the symptoms and hide the real problem (me trying to
> pressure planel so that he pressure juan so that your patch is merged)
> ...

Well, Andreys patch doesn't fix this specific problem. But while your 
pressuring, add supermount-ng and ACL on XFS to the list;)

d.

> 
> 

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Thierry Vignaud]

Thierry Vignaud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > Good, this was the immediate culprit. Remove it and you should be
> > able to boot normally.  It was expected to be removed by devfsd
> > update but probably something did not work as expected.
> 
> because i put in %%postun instead of %post.
> and it was only run in the "this is not an update but a definitive
> package remval"

but wait, there's still something crappy somewhere in devfsd since it
should just have ignored /lib/dev-state/log entry ... :-(

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Thierry Vignaud]

"Andrey Borzenkov"  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Good, this was the immediate culprit. Remove it and you should be
> able to boot normally.  It was expected to be removed by devfsd
> update but probably something did not work as expected.

because i put in %%postun instead of %post.
and it was only run in the "this is not an update but a definitive
package remval"

me sucks :-(

> Anyway the whole story is so fragile that this is the minor problem.

yes, it only fix the symptoms and hide the real problem (me trying to
pressure planel so that he pressure juan so that your patch is merged)
...

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Olivier Blin]

> >> - do you have /lib/dev-state/log file?
> > yes
> > $ ls /lib/dev-state/log -l 
> > srw-rw-rwT1 root root0 jui  4 22:13 /lib/dev-state/log=
> 
> Good, this was the immediate culprit. Remove it and you should be able
> to boot normally.  It was expected to be removed by devfsd update
> but probably something did not work as expected. Anyway the whole
> story is so fragile that this is the minor problem.

Thanks :-)
It boots normally now.
 
> I will have to think about final solution. I do not like losing boot
> messages before syslogd start so reverting my last minilogd patch
> is not an option (at least, the last one to consider).

Good luck :)

Olivier

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Thierry Vignaud]

Adam Williamson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Oh yes, very sorry, I should've mentioned this too, Danny - older
> kernels also do the hang on boot for me if I don't change minilogd,
> the only option which boots correctly is failsafe. So I'm not
> convinced it's a kernel bug.

it's not because external events make triggering a bug in another
package more easier or difficult that the bug is in the event source
package.

devfs implementation was crappy with scores of arguments in every
function in case someone want to add X, Y, or Z feature some day (a
lot of cleanups has been done in 2.5.x).

the odds're high that there're bugs there and andrey explanation does
not look stupid to me.

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

["Andrey Borzenkov"]

>> THANK YOU!
> np, i'm not doing the hardest part :)

you have been the first who actually *did* something to resolve
the issue instead of just going on with bla-bla-bla.

>> - do you have /lib/dev-state/log file?
> yes
> $ ls /lib/dev-state/log -l 
> srw-rw-rwT1 root root0 jui  4 22:13 /lib/dev-state/log=

Good, this was the immediate culprit. Remove it and you should be able
to boot normally.  It was expected to be removed by devfsd update
but probably something did not work as expected. Anyway the whole
story is so fragile that this is the minor problem.

I will have to think about final solution. I do not like losing boot
messages before syslogd start so reverting my last minilogd patch
is not an option (at least, the last one to consider).

This is *very* system dependent, in your case I presume the USB
was the reason you experienced it (by adding more syslog users).

please tell me if removing /lib/dev-state/log fixed it; else I need
stack again, do not bother with ksymoops. Please, Cc me I do not
receive cooker.

-andrey

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Olivier Blin]

> - what happens if you boot without devfs (with devfs unmounted)?

It boots fine when i start the kernel with devfs=unmount.
/var/log/syslog:Jul  8 23:44:35 blino rc.sysinit: Unmounting initrd:  succeeded

> - what happens if you boot without devfs with root mounted read-write 
> initially (I am afraid, if you use ext3, reiser or similar you will have to 
> edit mkinitrd and recreate initrd to do it - currently mkinitrd has builtin 
> 'mount --ro').

Since I use ext3, i've changed --ro to --rw in /sbin/mkinitrd and I've launched 
/usr/share/loader/make-initrd, I hope it was the right thing to do :-)
I cannot see any difference with the previous case.
/var/log/syslog:Jul  8 23:50:26 blino rc.sysinit: Unmounting initrd:  succeeded

thanks for your help
Olivier

[OT] Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Olivier Blin]

> Hello Olivier Blin,
> I know its not on topic but it seemms that your email address on
> laposte.net  is blacklisted by spamcop...
> I was playing with some antispam tools and obviously it intrigued me
> what was supposedly spam.
> So if you find people not responding or members on the cooker and
> other lists donot see your responses and use an antispam service.

Thanks for having pointed this out :)
SpamCop probably assumes that laposte.net is an open relay, which is wrong because you 
need to log in your pop3 account before being able to use the SMTP server ...
Anyway, laposte.net sux these days, they have lost about 2 days of mail since 
Saturday, so I read the ML with http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=mandrake-cooker .
I use a new account, can you tell me if my new mail address/SMTP server is blocked by 
SpamCop ?

Thanks

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Olivier Blin]

> THANK YOU!
np, i'm not doing the hardest part :)

> - do you have /lib/dev-state/log file?
yes
$ ls /lib/dev-state/log -l 
srw-rw-rwT1 root root0 jui  4 22:13 /lib/dev-state/log=

> - what gives 'grep log /etc/devfsd.conf'
$ grep log /etc/devfsd.conf 
# Restoring /dev/log on startup would trigger the minilogd/initlog deadlock
# (minilogd falsely assuming syslogd has been started).
REGISTER^log$   IGNORE
CREATE  ^log$   IGNORE
CHANGE  ^log$   IGNORE
DELETE  ^log$   IGNORE

> - what happens if you boot without devfs (with devfs unmounted)?
> - what happens if you boot without devfs with root mounted read-write 
> initially (I am afraid, if you use ext3, reiser or similar you will have to 
> edit mkinitrd and recreate initrd to do it - currently mkinitrd has builtin 
> 'mount --ro').

let me some more minutes to do it :)

thanks for your help 

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Andrey Borzenkov]

> I have joined the strace to this mail.

THANK YOU!

[Buchan, you will laugh, but it was different problem]

OK, could you please check a couple of things.

- do you have /lib/dev-state/log file?
- what gives 'grep log /etc/devfsd.conf'
- what happens if you boot without devfs (with devfs unmounted)?
- what happens if you boot without devfs with root mounted read-write 
initially (I am afraid, if you use ext3, reiser or similar you will have to 
edit mkinitrd and recreate initrd to do it - currently mkinitrd has builtin 
'mount --ro').

In short it appears that minilogd tries to exit but blocks and all other 
programs that try to connect to it block as well. The above is mostly to make 
sure why it tries to exit. I will have to think why it blocks (I know how to 
reproduce it now easily without rebooting).

thank you for your help

-andrey

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Olivier Blin]

> If it really does not work, I am guilty of yelling at everbody (although 
> other people have reported success with this patch).

No, you're not guilty, this patch had to be tried.
 
> Anyway, can you produce a stack trace?
> alt-sysrq-T at the hang?
> please run it through ksymoops if needed.

I have joined the strace to this mail.
Actually, even if the kernel didn't print the strace on screen (with a log level of 
0), it was written in /var/log/kernel/warnings :-)

Olivier


strace_depmod.gz
Description: Binary data


strace_through_ksymoops.gz
Description: Binary data

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

["Andrey Borzenkov"]

> 
> And if Juan is working on another kernel update for 9.1, shouldn't the
> patch be applied there too, or must we keep telling people not to use
> Mandrakesoft kernels but Danny's update instead?
> 

First we have to be sure it is this problem :)

Andrew Morton pointed one more race condition in devfs. It is not
related to my patch - it exists with or without - but it is good
occasion to fix both at the same time (they are related to the same
problem)

I hope to convince somebody on lkml to include it into 2.4. Pavel
does this as well. The problem is, Richard is not online for a long
time now and he is still official maintainer at least for 2.4 ...

-andrey

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
>>But until now the fact that it affects 9.1 also hasn't been made
>>abundantly clear (which is why people are trying to revert to
>>kernel or devfsd from 9.1).
>
>
>  this problem is two and half year old. This problem has been
> reported long before 9.1 including cooker as well. I have been having
> it interminnently long before 9.1. Pavel (who did all the debugging)
> had this problem under RedHat - so without any relation to either mdk
> kernel or minilogd. The problem has been reported on a.o.l.m more
> than once for 9.1 as well. If archives of devfs mailing list were
> online you would see lo-o-ong thread about it there with exactly
> the same stacks posted by Juan.
>

But how many people on cooker (besides you, Juan and Danny) know this?
If everyone on cooker knew this, why would they be reverting packages? I
just wanted to make sure people on cooker know it's not cooker-specific
(which *has* *not* been said much until now).

> reverting to old minilogd simply puts it off until next kernel or
> initscripts change. Besides it will lose early boot messages again.
>

Agree, which is why people need to know that reverting is not the
solution (which has been used already by a number of people).

> I won't promise to eat my hat if it turns out to be completely
> unrelated - but I will be suprised very very much.

And if Juan is working on another kernel update for 9.1, shouldn't the
patch be applied there too, or must we keep telling people not to use
Mandrakesoft kernels but Danny's update instead?

Regards,
Buchan

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Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

["Andrey Borzenkov"]

> But until now the fact that it affects 9.1 also hasn't been made
> abundantly clear (which is why people are trying to revert to
> kernel or devfsd from 9.1).

 this problem is two and half year old. This problem has been
reported long before 9.1 including cooker as well. I have been having
it interminnently long before 9.1. Pavel (who did all the debugging)
had this problem under RedHat - so without any relation to either mdk
kernel or minilogd. The problem has been reported on a.o.l.m more
than once for 9.1 as well. If archives of devfs mailing list were
online you would see lo-o-ong thread about it there with exactly
the same stacks posted by Juan.

reverting to old minilogd simply puts it off until next kernel or
initscripts change. Besides it will lose early boot messages again.

I won't promise to eat my hat if it turns out to be completely
unrelated - but I will be suprised very very much.

-andrey

actually I probably can promise it because I have no hat :))

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Buchan Milne wrote:
>
>>BTW, I had someone phone me who is seeing this problem on stock 9.1, not
>>all the time, but quite often, except when booting failsafe.
>
> well, did 0.22mdk fix it?

Haven't managed to get them to try -22mdk, will report when I have.

But until now the fact that it affects 9.1 also hasn't been made
abundantly clear (which is why people are trying to revert to kernel or
devfsd from 9.1).

Regards,
Buchan

- --
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Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[danny]

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Buchan Milne wrote:
> 
> BTW, I had someone phone me who is seeing this problem on stock 9.1, not
> all the time, but quite often, except when booting failsafe.

well, did 0.22mdk fix it?

d.

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 21:58, Olivier Blin wrote:

> Oh yes, very sorry, I should've mentioned this too, Danny - older
> kernels also do the hang on boot for me if I don't change minilogd, the
> only option which boots correctly is failsafe. So I'm not convinced it's
> a kernel bug.

BTW, I had someone phone me who is seeing this problem on stock 9.1, not
all the time, but quite often, except when booting failsafe.

Regards,
Buchan

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Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

["Andrey Borzenkov"]

> Oh yes, very sorry, I should've mentioned this too, Danny - older
> kernels also do the hang on boot for me if I don't change minilogd,
> the only option which boots correctly is failsafe. So I'm not
> convinced it's a kernel bug.

Well, this thread stopped to be amusing ...

folks, there are 2 (two) patches for minilogd in this intscripts.
If all of you are so sure it is minilogd - why won't you revert these
one-by-one to see which patch is responsible? It is no rocket sience,
it compiles in 5 seconds; and finally there are just two compiles
needed (with either patch) because we obviously have other two cases
already covered.

Or, better yet, would somebody finally produce a stack trace of
hanging system and send it to me ...

-andrey

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Thomas Backlund]

Viestissä Maanantai 7. Heinäkuuta 2003 22:31, [EMAIL PROTECTED] kirjoitti:

[...]
> To be absolutely sure you applied it correctly, and it is working, can you
> type as root:
>
> while true ; do ls /dev/foo & rm -f /dev/foo & done
>
> better ctrl-c it after after a few 100 times. Than, check in ps ax if you
> have all these processes hanging in the "D" state. If so: patch is not
> applied correctly, or you are not running patched kernel.
>

I tested this...
under 13mdk I let the loop run ~4000 times, wich left ~4000 processes in "D" 
state...

with your 22mdk I let the loop run ~25000 times, but not a single process got
left hanging... there were no trace what so ever of those processes in ps ax 
...

now this was fun ;-)

Now to an other topic:
now I'm going to set bonnie++ to benchmark my hdd until tomorrow...

I have had some reports that some harddrives drops out of UDMA
after a while in use on nForce2 systems ...
(both normal and heavy use apparently ...)

Regards

Thomas

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Bongani Hlope]

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 23:26:03 +0200
Olivier Blin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > Anyway, can you produce a stack trace?
> > alt-sysrq-T at the hang?
> > please run it through ksymoops if needed.
> 
> No, i can't produce a stack trace.
> The kernel prints he will show the trace, but nothing occurs :(
> 
Try alt-sysrq-8 then alt-sysrq-T, that should set the log level to 8 (highest IIRC), 
which should have a more detailed printout





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Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Olivier Blin]

> Anyway, can you produce a stack trace?
> alt-sysrq-T at the hang?
> please run it through ksymoops if needed.

No, i can't produce a stack trace.
The kernel prints he will show the trace, but nothing occurs :(

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Adam Williamson]

On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 21:58, Olivier Blin wrote:
> > To be absolutely sure you applied it correctly, and it is working, can you 
> > type as root:
> > 
> > while true ; do ls /dev/foo & rm -f /dev/foo & done
> > 
> > better ctrl-c it after after a few 100 times. Than, check in ps ax if you 
> > have all these processes hanging in the "D" state. If so: patch is not 
> > applied correctly, or you are not running patched kernel.
> > 
> > If it does not hang: your hang at boot is due to a different problem.
> 
> It doesn't hang.
> I've noticed that my old kernel, kernel-2.4.21-0.13mdk, has the same problem on 
> boot, it also hang in depmod :-/

Oh yes, very sorry, I should've mentioned this too, Danny - older
kernels also do the hang on boot for me if I don't change minilogd, the
only option which boots correctly is failsafe. So I'm not convinced it's
a kernel bug.
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[danny]

On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Olivier Blin wrote:
> It doesn't hang.
good.
hmm..I wonder what are the chances of 2 bugs having a so similar  
appearence. I still would like a stack trace on the hang.

> I've noticed that my old kernel, kernel-2.4.21-0.13mdk, has the same 
> problem on boot, it also hang in depmod :-/
Yes, but this kernel should also show lots of processes in D state when 
you try that small test script.

d.

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[danny]

On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Olivier Blin wrote:

> > This is (most likely) a devfs bug, it was fixed by a patch by Andrey. If 
> > you have this hang often, please test attached patch (for some people it 
> > never occurs, for others only rarely)
> 
> Hi
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> I applied this patch to the kernel source (it was a pain to download the package 
> with my 56k ...) and rebuilded the package, but depmod still hangs at boot.
> Are you sure this patch can be applied to the current kernel source ? It was written 
> for Mandrake 9.1 kernel ...
> 

To be absolutely sure you applied it correctly, and it is working, can you 
type as root:

while true ; do ls /dev/foo & rm -f /dev/foo & done

better ctrl-c it after after a few 100 times. Than, check in ps ax if you 
have all these processes hanging in the "D" state. If so: patch is not 
applied correctly, or you are not running patched kernel.

If it does not hang: your hang at boot is due to a different problem.

d.

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Olivier Blin]

> To be absolutely sure you applied it correctly, and it is working, can you 
> type as root:
> 
> while true ; do ls /dev/foo & rm -f /dev/foo & done
> 
> better ctrl-c it after after a few 100 times. Than, check in ps ax if you 
> have all these processes hanging in the "D" state. If so: patch is not 
> applied correctly, or you are not running patched kernel.
> 
> If it does not hang: your hang at boot is due to a different problem.

It doesn't hang.
I've noticed that my old kernel, kernel-2.4.21-0.13mdk, has the same problem on boot, 
it also hang in depmod :-/

Thanks for your help.

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[danny]

On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Olivier Blin wrote:

> > This is (most likely) a devfs bug, it was fixed by a patch by Andrey. If 
> > you have this hang often, please test attached patch (for some people it 
> > never occurs, for others only rarely)
> 
> Hi
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> I applied this patch to the kernel source (it was a pain to download the package 
> with my 56k ...) and rebuilded the package, but depmod still hangs at boot.
> Are you sure this patch can be applied to the current kernel source ? It was written 
> for Mandrake 9.1 kernel ...
thanks for trying!

Well, if you did it correctly it should work.
And it is only a one-liner in code that didn't change since last release 
AFAIK.

If it really does not work, I am guilty of yelling at everbody (although 
other people have reported success with this patch).

Anyway, can you produce a stack trace?
alt-sysrq-T at the hang?
please run it through ksymoops if needed.

d.

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Olivier Blin]

> This is (most likely) a devfs bug, it was fixed by a patch by Andrey. If 
> you have this hang often, please test attached patch (for some people it 
> never occurs, for others only rarely)

Hi

Thanks for the help.
I applied this patch to the kernel source (it was a pain to download the package with 
my 56k ...) and rebuilded the package, but depmod still hangs at boot.
Are you sure this patch can be applied to the current kernel source ? It was written 
for Mandrake 9.1 kernel ...

Thanks
Olivier

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Robert L Martin]

probably because it's a bit of a pain to apply the patch and recompile
the kernel...is there no easier way of testing?
-
Speaking as one of the "Hairy Knuckle/Kilingon" crowd
its not that bad if you know what options to set/module/unset
you can do the compile run in a few minutes (My Intel celeron 700 did a compile 
during a midshow commerical break)

Side note does the kernel source rpm have the matching .config file included?
ie if i install 2.4.21-3mdk.src.rpm does it have the .config used to build 
2.4.21-3mdk.i586.rpm?

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Adam Williamson]

On Sun, 2003-07-06 at 20:38, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On 6 Jul 2003, Adam Williamson wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 2003-07-06 at 16:39, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Michael Scherer wrote:
> > > > and the winner is 
> > > > minilogd.
> > > 
> > > Well why do you think Andrey's patch i resent was called devfs.minilogd ? 
> > > I think the problem is really in the kernel, but nobody wants to try:(
> > 
> > probably because it's a bit of a pain to apply the patch and recompile
> > the kernel...is there no easier way of testing?
> Ah...but I still suspect you are all being lazy.
> 
> It is not that much work to compile a minimal kernel with this patch. It 
> is a timing issue, every change in rc.sysinit can trigger it. And 
> reverting to an old minilogd is not a real solution. Well..If you all stay 
> being lazy I might build a kernel rpm with the patch.
> 
> I thought this list was for cookers

We're *lazy* cookers. :)
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[Adam Williamson]

On Sun, 2003-07-06 at 23:00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On 6 Jul 2003, Adam Williamson wrote:
> 
> > probably because it's a bit of a pain to apply the patch and recompile
> > the kernel...is there no easier way of testing?
> > 
> I just did think of an easier way to test it:
> grab a copy of the 22mdk kernel in the clubcontributions for 9.1 (under 
> unsupported on the mirrors). It also contains the patch.

OK, I'll try that in the morning.

> For people that have access to klama: I have put an 2.4.21.3 kernel with 
> the patch+acls+supermount in my homedir (dtholen). I have no access to my 
> x86 cooker box now, so that one is not tested yet.

Any chance you could make that one publicly accessible somewhere?
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[danny]

On 6 Jul 2003, Adam Williamson wrote:

> probably because it's a bit of a pain to apply the patch and recompile
> the kernel...is there no easier way of testing?
> 
I just did think of an easier way to test it:
grab a copy of the 22mdk kernel in the clubcontributions for 9.1 (under 
unsupported on the mirrors). It also contains the patch.

For people that have access to klama: I have put an 2.4.21.3 kernel with 
the patch+acls+supermount in my homedir (dtholen). I have no access to my 
x86 cooker box now, so that one is not tested yet.

d.

Re: [Cooker] cooker - state of play

[danny]

On 6 Jul 2003, Adam Williamson wrote:

> On Sun, 2003-07-06 at 16:39, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Michael Scherer wrote:
> > > and the winner is 
> > > minilogd.
> > 
> > Well why do you think Andrey's patch i resent was called devfs.minilogd ? 
> > I think the problem is really in the kernel, but nobody wants to try:(
> 
> probably because it's a bit of a pain to apply the patch and recompile
> the kernel...is there no easier way of testing?
Ah...but I still suspect you are all being lazy.

It is not that much work to compile a minimal kernel with this patch. It 
is a timing issue, every change in rc.sysinit can trigger it. And 
reverting to an old minilogd is not a real solution. Well..If you all stay 
being lazy I might build a kernel rpm with the patch.

I thought this list was for cookers

d.

(now you will all kill me if the patch doesn't fix it *grin*)

O..perhaps another way to be sure is to produce a stack trace with 
alt-sysrq-T. But ofcourse that doesn't fix it.


 >