Re: [css-d] hand coders vs wsywig coders...I had no idea

[Rob Emenecker]

Scott,

I think the reaction may have been a bit over the top. However, your comment
immediately after that of, "I have no earthly idea where even to start
without dreamweaver holding my hand" may have been the red flag for them.
Not that you said that, but they might have gleaned as much.

I love Dreamweaver. Absolutely love it. However, I work mostly in code view.
I like the site management tools and immediate validation/checking tools
built into it. (The later catches most all of my stuff, before I have to go
through a "publish and then validate at W3C" cycle.)

Regardless, Dreamweaver is just one of the tools in my arsenal. It is the
main one, but I also use TopStyle, CSE HTML Validator, and even HomeSite
5.5+. I also use the Firebug and Web Developer add-ons for Firefox.

As Tim said, the end result is the coding. And, FWIW, as good as
Dreamweaver's coding might be, CSS (and JavaScript and server-side) coding
done by hand is typically much cleaner, leaner, and "sticks in your braind".

Also, given the response from the prospective employer, would you really
want to work there anyway? 

...Rob

Rob Emenecker @ Hairy Dog Digital
www.hairydogdigital.com
 

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Re: [css-d] Fluid images

[David Laakso]

Stephan Wehner wrote:
> On Jan 25, 2008 4:34 PM, Stephan Wehner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> On Jan 25, 2008 10:42 AM, Jack Blankenships
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
> :
>   
>>> I want to have an image (several images) that are dynamically
>>> sized/fluid based on the browser window/viewport dimensions.  I have a
>>>   
> :
>   
>> Did you try applying the width to the img ? See
>> http://myosin3000.sugarmotor.net/imagesize.html
>> 
>
> Sorry I forgot to include sample HTML which does the trick as far as I
> understand --
>
>   
>
> Stephan
>
>   



Sorry. No style sheet found.

Best,

~dL

-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] Fluid images

[Stephan Wehner]

On Jan 25, 2008 4:34 PM, Stephan Wehner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jan 25, 2008 10:42 AM, Jack Blankenships
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:
> > I want to have an image (several images) that are dynamically
> > sized/fluid based on the browser window/viewport dimensions.  I have a
:
>
> Did you try applying the width to the img ? See
> http://myosin3000.sugarmotor.net/imagesize.html

Sorry I forgot to include sample HTML which does the trick as far as I
understand --

  

Stephan

-- 
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-> http://stephan.sugarmotor.org
-> http://www.thrackle.org
-> http://www.buckmaster.ca
-> http://www.trafficlife.com
-> http://stephansmap.org
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Re: [css-d] A Few Problems

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Jan 26, 2008, at 5:50 AM, Foundation Flash wrote:

> I start with my biggest problem - that on Safari (both Mac and  
> Windows).
> . In Safari, however, the 
> does not extend fully upwards or downwards and is instead limited  
> to the
> area of the text and across wards. This ruins the effect. I have  
> looked
> through lists of Safari problems and asked other but I am well and  
> truly
> stuck.

> http://www.foundation-flash.com

Using display:inline-block for the  will improve that issue.

#navmenu li{
..
display:inline;
display:inline-block;
}

and remove the padding on the ul
#navmenu ul {
padding:0;
}

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh






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Re: [css-d] Fluid images

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Jack Blankenships wrote:
> I want to have an image (several images) that are dynamically 
> sized/fluid based on the browser window/viewport dimensions.

1: declare a (very) large pixel or em 'width' on the image - in CSS.
2: declare 'max-width: 100%' on the image.

Result: the image will become as wide as the 'width', but will not
become wider than the body or other element it's placed in. Declaring an
image-width larger than the largest viewport you can imagine, will make
it fill all imaginable viewports exactly - unless you impose other
restrictions.

Example with somewhat large (intrinsic, not declared) 'width' (1280px)
and 'max-width: 100%'...



regards
Georg
-- 
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Re: [css-d] hand coders vs wsywig coders...I had no idea

[Zach Shepherd]

I'll bite.

I haven't seen any comprehensive surveys about css development habits and I
certainly think it'd be an interesting thing to get some more information
on.

I'd certainly be open to suggestions about questions/topics. In the interest
of keeping Off Topic posts off of the list, I'd ask that people send any
comments about this directly to me when appropriate. The set-up time will
depend on the volume of ideas/requests I get. I'll drop a link to the list
when it's up and running.

Regards,
Zach


On Jan 25, 2008 2:54 PM, Eric A. Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 1:46 PM -0500 1/25/08, Scott Thigpen wrote:
>
> ...
> And if someone wants to set up a short-ish survey about people's CSS
> development habits, let us know you're on it and then announce the survey
> location once it's ready to go.
> ...
>
> --
> Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
> "CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously."
>   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
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Re: [css-d] Fluid images

[Rob Emenecker]

Jack,

I don't think you're going to find a CSS solution. Percentage dimensions for
IMG elements are percentages of the source graphic dimensions, not the
viewport, as you have discovered. If you need to alter the image dimensions,
and maintain it's aspect ratio, you will need to wait for an onresize event
to happen on the browser window (browser object model), then dynamically
adjust the image's size. This'll require JavaScript. 

Another alternative is to use Flash to present image(s), because a Flash SWF
in an OBJECT element *CAN* be specified to proportionally resize itself to
the viewport.

...Rob

Rob Emenecker @ Hairy Dog Digital
www.hairydogdigital.com
 

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[css-d] Drop Downs Appearing Below Flash

[jono]

Recently, it appears that drop-down navigation in FIrefox is falling
behind Flash movies, again, and the normal suggested fixes no longer work.
 Has anyone else experienced this lately?

I have read through the previous posts:
[1] http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/94203

And previous fix examples:
[2] http://www.communitymx.com/content/source/E5141/wmodeopaque.htm
--> Even this one seems to be not working anymore.

I have applied wmode="transparent", set z-index, and even tried
implementing an iFrame (as a test) to house the Flash movie below the
drop-down and the drop-down menus still go behind the Flash movie, even
when the Flash movie is inside of the iFrame.  I cannot currently share
the iFrame example.

I am curious, are others seeing this problem in Frefox, despite using the
suggested fixes?  When you view link [2] above, does it work as intended?

Your feedback is appreciated.

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Re: [css-d] Fluid images

[Stephan Wehner]

On Jan 25, 2008 10:42 AM, Jack Blankenships
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have been reading some articles
> (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/elastic/ ,
> http://www.htmldog.com/articles/elasticdesign/demo/ ,
> http://www.antix.co.uk/code/css/imposing_minimum_width/example_3.htm ,
> etc), but I am not finding the answer I am looking for.
>
> I want to have an image (several images) that are dynamically
> sized/fluid based on the browser window/viewport dimensions.  I have a
> layout where the divs can be percentages of the available height and
> width, but it seems that whether I put the image inside the div or as
> a background-image I cannot get it to adjust based on the window
> dimensions.  When I set the width or height to 100% using css, the
> image is set to 100% of its original size, without respect to its
> container.

Did you try applying the width to the img ? See
http://myosin3000.sugarmotor.net/imagesize.html

> I suppose that it makes things more complicated that I need to
> preserve the dimensional relationship between the height/width

Actually this seems easy. See example above.

Stephan


-- 
Stephan Wehner

-> http://stephan.sugarmotor.org
-> http://www.thrackle.org
-> http://www.buckmaster.ca
-> http://www.trafficlife.com
-> http://stephansmap.org
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Re: [css-d] A Few Problems

[Foundation Flash]

Dear all,
As helpfully suggested by Philippe, I now have all the pages on the site 
up to a "strict" standard,  "XHTML 1.0 Strict", but I still have the 
white area not expanding up and down problem:

I start with my biggest problem - that on Safari (both Mac and Windows).
. In Safari, however, the 
does not extend fully upwards or downwards and is instead limited to the
area of the text and across wards. This ruins the effect. I have looked
through lists of Safari problems and asked other but I am well and truly
stuck.
---

Would it only work with HTML (and not XHTML)? Or should I be doing 
something else?

Thanks,
-- 
Harry Burt
Head Designer, *Foundation Flash*
//

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[css-d] Fluid images

[Jack Blankenships]

I have been reading some articles
(http://www.alistapart.com/articles/elastic/ ,
http://www.htmldog.com/articles/elasticdesign/demo/ ,
http://www.antix.co.uk/code/css/imposing_minimum_width/example_3.htm ,
etc), but I am not finding the answer I am looking for.

I want to have an image (several images) that are dynamically
sized/fluid based on the browser window/viewport dimensions.  I have a
layout where the divs can be percentages of the available height and
width, but it seems that whether I put the image inside the div or as
a background-image I cannot get it to adjust based on the window
dimensions.  When I set the width or height to 100% using css, the
image is set to 100% of its original size, without respect to its
container.

I suppose that it makes things more complicated that I need to
preserve the dimensional relationship between the height/width

The closest example I have seen to getting this to work is at
www.opera.com, but the height of the images never changes, and the
image gets out of proportion during resizing events.  I also found
that http://www.cssplay.co.uk/layouts/background.html resizes both
dimensions, but not in equal ratios and seems to only work on body
backgrounds.

I need some help with a css solution for this, and if some javascript
integration is necessary, then sobeit.

Thanks,
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Re: [css-d] hand coders vs wsywig coders...I had no idea

[Ben Fider]

I could hand code all day long using only a text editor like Notepad or
Crimson editor.

But, I use DW's code view to build most everything, because as I type HTML
and CSS it beautifully suggests what I begin to type and finishes it (if I
so choose).  This speeds up my coding big time.

Furthermore, if you define you document, DW will offer suggestions as you
type ASP, JSP, PHP too (I believe)...  like Eclipse.

But, job descriptions often read "hand coders only" which would lead me to
deny that I use DW at all.

Ben

On Jan 25, 2008 12:46 PM, Scott Thigpen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Guys,
>
> Yesterday I was up for a job to take on a big website and design it.  They
> were real impressed with my work, everything was going well until I said I
> coded with the aid of Dreamweaver.  Then you would have think I had
> punched
> the guy in the mouth.  I mean there was not even "well we'll think about
> it"
> it was "we only use hand coders."  I'm not above doing hand coding, but I
> have no earthly idea where even to start without dreamweaver holding my
> hand.
>
> So do most of you guys hand code? Or do you use a wsywig editor to help?
>
> Thanks
> Scott
>
> --
> S c o t t  T h i g p e n
> Illustrative Designer
> art: http://www.sthig.com
> design: http://www.thigpendesigns.com
> Phone: 770.527.3958
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Re: [css-d] CSS Flyout Menu problem with IE6

[Joe Barrett]

On Jan 25, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

>
> Those flyouts _must_ be positioned relative to the element/container  
> you
> want them to line up with. That's probably best done by declaring
> 'position: relative' on the parent - the relevant , and 'position:
> absolute' with only a small 'left' value on the relevant flyout.
>
> regards
>   Georg
>

Thanks for the answer Georg, but that's not specifically what I was  
looking to accomplish. The positioning of the flyouts is not what I'm  
worried about right now, that part I can understand because when it's  
embedded in the iframe, it takes from the root of the iframe, not the  
page ( http://download.thelenad.com/mathall - then click on interiors  
and you'll see it should line up to where it needs, I only directly  
linked everyone to the page because it's what I specifically need  
troubleshooting on and the reason I preempted my questioning). What  
I'm looking for is fixing the fact that the right (#rightright)  
column's menu flyouts will not "work" in IE/win. The only reason that  
the position:fixed was in there was to see if the z-indexing would  
work and fixed was the one that was putting it where I needed it. I'll  
definitely look more into the issues that you have brought up though.

Thanks,
Joe
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Re: [css-d] CSS Flyout Menu problem with IE6

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Joe Barrett wrote:

> http://download.thelenad.com/mathall/interiors.html
> 
> First, this page is actually embedded in an iframe so when it's full
>  view, the pop up menus on the right side of the page, "Browse our 
> Featured Brands," will not line up, but my problem is the fact that I
>  can only get the left column to pop out and not the right column in
>  IE6. Otherwise both columns work in Safari, Firefox, and IE7.

1: you're positioning the flyouts relative to the body and with 'em', so
it is only by chance that those flyouts will end up where you want them.
Any window-size and/or font-size deviation from your ideal will make it
break.

2: You're also using 'position: fixed' which IE6 doesn't understand at all.
Also: 'fixed' will not line up with anything but the browser-window
since that's what 'fixed' mean - making the line up even more
"chance-like" in any browser at the user-end.

3: You're also triggering the "em font-resizing bug"[1] in IE/win, which
adds to the problems mentioned above - apart from risking oversized or
extremely small and unreadable text in all (present) IE/win versions.


Those flyouts _must_ be positioned relative to the element/container you
want them to line up with. That's probably best done by declaring
'position: relative' on the parent - the relevant , and 'position:
absolute' with only a small 'left' value on the relevant flyout.

regards
Georg

[1]http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_additions_13.html
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] hand coders vs wsywig coders...I had no idea

[Jason Pruim]

On Jan 25, 2008, at 1:46 PM, Scott Thigpen wrote:

> Hi Guys,
>
> Yesterday I was up for a job to take on a big website and design  
> it.  They
> were real impressed with my work, everything was going well until I  
> said I
> coded with the aid of Dreamweaver.  Then you would have think I had  
> punched
> the guy in the mouth.  I mean there was not even "well we'll think  
> about it"
> it was "we only use hand coders."  I'm not above doing hand coding,  
> but I
> have no earthly idea where even to start without dreamweaver holding  
> my
> hand.
>
> So do most of you guys hand code? Or do you use a wsywig editor to  
> help?
>
> Thanks
> Scott


Hi Scott,

I think the main reason people don't like dream weaver is that unless  
you know what you are doing, it's very easy to get all kinds unneeded  
code in there.

Personally, I did use dreamweaver until recently, but I just used it  
for the syntax coloring, it helped me see what was linked, I've  
recently switched off of that to use XCode 3.0 for the Mac which does  
the same thing, but I think it does it better.

I still do all the coding by hand, it's just the way I learned how to  
do it.


--

Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424
www.raoset.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [css-d] IE Horizontal centering problems and a couple of other IE issues

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Toby Curl wrote:
> http://pi3.co.uk/design_test/index.html 
> http://pi3.co.uk/design_test/profile.html

> The pages work correctly in Firefox, Safari, Opera and others. The 
> only problem I am having is with IE. I am using IE7 and have tried it
>  in IE5 and IE6, with the same results.

All IE/win does indeed render the same, because your pages triggers
quirks mode - no doctype present - in all browsers. Is this intentional?

IE/win doesn't support much of your centering-styles in /any/ mode, but
for IE6 and IE7 it's even less when in quirks mode since they're then
limited to what IE5 can handle.
Other browsers offer pretty good CSS support regardless of mode, so
they'll render as intended.

Anyway, I've made the most basic corrections for IE/win *quirks mode* in
these examples...





...so you have something to compare with.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] Question about wrappers/containers

[David Laakso]

J wrote:
> (www.stainlessband.com/index.html) 
> I want no space 
> between the graphics and the wrapper.
>
>
>   

Add this selector to your CSS file to make the sidebar images butt the 
center columnh.

#anchor {margin: 0 auto; width: 1010px; border: 1px solid fuchsia;}

And in the markup add:


(it should be the first id to open and the last to close.)


Best,
~dL

-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] hand coders vs wsywig coders...I had no idea

[Parag Jagdale]

I think you should use DW more as training wheels in the beginning to learn
how the actual code works.  I am now a 100% hand coder, but I started off
with Dreamweaver and learned the html things I didnt know by using the split
view and watching the code being written as I used the WYSIWYG. It is useful
for a beginner and small business sites with few pages that can be managed
by the DW template system but not for larger sites which require more
planning and thinking. If there's a problem and you've handcoded the site
successfully, you will be able to fix it. This goes for even smaller sites.




> Scott Thigpen wrote:
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > Yesterday I was up for a job to take on a big website and design it.
>  They
> > were real impressed with my work, everything was going well until I said
> I
> > coded with the aid of Dreamweaver.  Then you would have think I had
> punched
> > the guy in the mouth.  I mean there was not even "well we'll think about
> it"
> > it was "we only use hand coders."  I'm not above doing hand coding, but
> I
> > have no earthly idea where even to start without dreamweaver holding my
> > hand.
> >
> > So do most of you guys hand code? Or do you use a wsywig editor to help?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Scott
> >
> >
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-- 

Thank You,
Parag Jagdale
Un-identified LLC
www.un-identified.com
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[css-d] CSS Flyout Menu problem with IE6

[Joe Barrett]

Hello out there,

I've been doing some research and with it being more of a tight  
deadline, I've decided to see if anyone else knew how to fix this.

http://download.thelenad.com/mathall/interiors.html

First, this page is actually embedded in an iframe so when it's full  
view, the pop up menus on the right side of the page, "Browse our  
Featured Brands," will not line up, but my problem is the fact that I  
can only get the left column to pop out and not the right column in  
IE6. Otherwise both columns work in Safari, Firefox, and IE7. I've  
tried using z-indexing with specifying positioning in the CSS but it  
still doesn't allow it to pop up. I don't know how unique of a problem  
it is, but I haven't been able to find anything similar to it yet  
through google.

The set up is 2 divs floating next to each other forming two columns.  
Each has an unordered list with submenu's flying out to the left of  
the divs (so the right column's menus are on top of the left column  
when active). I had thought it was a z-index problem because it was  
supposed to go over it, but even in full view, the menu doesn't show  
anywhere on my page compared with the left column's menu sitting on  
the left side. I don't believe this is an .htc problem, because adding  
that allowed the left column's menu to actually show in IE6.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Joe
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[css-d] Block in the middle of the text

[Mansour]

I am facing some difficulties here, and I hope there's someone can help. 
It looks like this issue is very common, as there are many hits for 
block related questions on google, but none of them gave me exactly what 
I needed, and couldn't figure it out myself.

I need to be able to put a block in the middle of the text. Some thing 
like this:

some text goes here,| A multi  line|
| block starts|
|here and ends   |
| here.  |, then 
some text follows the block.



How can I do this ?



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Re: [css-d] Extra vertical space between LI elements in IE :: correction

[David Laakso]

David Laakso wrote:
> Erik Domingo wrote:
>   
>> Validated the markup - except for an issue with a bit of javascript in the
>> footer, the page is valid Strict XHTML. I also tried removing all the
>> whitespace between  tags, but the extra vertical space is still showing
>> in IE6 & 7.
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>   
>> 
>
>
>
>   
Should read:

In reference toyour uri: 

Good.

The fix for the "evil ones" on a local file in XP/IE6.0 and IE7.0 on Mac 
OS X 10.4.11 is:

#nav-main li {
height : 17px; < :: delete ::
margin : 0 0 3.5px 0; < :: delete ::
margin: 0 0 0.5em 0; < :: add ::
}

And add these selectors to target IE 6 & 7 (and tweak as necessary):

* html #nav-main li {
dislpay: inline;
margin-bottom: 0;
} /*fix for IE6*/

*:first-child+html #nav-main li {
dislpay: inline;
margin-bottom: 0;
} /*fix for IE7*/

HTH.
Best,

~dL:



-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] Why is my content hidden?

[Big Moxy]

Thank you, David!! That fixed it.

- Tim

David Laakso wrote:
> Big Moxy wrote:
>> Good Morning All!
>>
>> http://projects.zanalysts.com/cargo/vehicledetails.html
>> http://projects.zanalysts.com/cargo/firstweb.css
>>
>>
>> The white background in the checklist stops about midway and the 
>> background image takes over.
>> The checklist itself goes behind the footer instead of pushing the 
>> footer down.
>>
>>
>> Tim
>>   
>
>
> #pageDef {
> overflow: hidden; < :: add ::
> height: 100%; <-- :: delete ::
> }
> * html #pageDef { <-- :: delete selector ::
>height: 100%;
> }
> #content {
> height: 100%; <-- :: delete ::
> }
>
> <-- :: add immediately above  ::
>
> Validate before you post.
>
> Best,
> ~dL
>
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Re: [css-d] Extra vertical space between LI elements in IE

[David Laakso]

Erik Domingo wrote:
> Validated the markup - except for an issue with a bit of javascript in the
> footer, the page is valid Strict XHTML. I also tried removing all the
> whitespace between  tags, but the extra vertical space is still showing
> in IE6 & 7.
>
> Erik
>
>   

In reference toyour uri: 

Good.

The fix for the "evil ones" on a local file in XP/IE6.0 and IE7.0 on Mac 
OS X 10.4.11 is:

#nav-main li {
height : 17px; < :: delete ::
margin : 0 0 3.5px 0; < :: delete ::
margin: 0 0 0.5em 0; < :: add ::
}

And add these selectors to target IE 6 & 7 (and tweak as necessary):

* html #nav-main li {
dislpay: inline;
margin-bottom: 0;
} /*fix for IE7*/

*:first-child+html #nav-main li {
dislpay: inline;
margin-bottom: 0;
} /*fix for IE7*/

HTH.
Best,

~dL:



-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] hand coders vs wsywig coders...I had no idea

[patrick]

Scott Thigpen wrote:
> Hi Guys,
> 
> Yesterday I was up for a job to take on a big website and design it.  They
> were real impressed with my work, everything was going well until I said I
> coded with the aid of Dreamweaver.  Then you would have think I had punched
> the guy in the mouth.  I mean there was not even "well we'll think about it"
> it was "we only use hand coders."  I'm not above doing hand coding, but I
> have no earthly idea where even to start without dreamweaver holding my
> hand.
> 
> So do most of you guys hand code? Or do you use a wsywig editor to help?
> 
> Thanks
> Scott
> 

That seems a bit weird, at least from the point of your being hired as a 
designer. If it's a big site it would seem they would hire a team to do
designer
coder
production

If they want one person to be all 3, it's a bit self-defeating to have a 
n anti-wysiwyg bias.



-- 

//patrick
http://iampms.com
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[css-d] [ADMIN - OFFTOPIC] Re: hand coders vs wsywig coders...I had no idea

[Alex Robinson]

>So do most of you guys hand code? Or do you use a wsywig editor to help?

Sorry Scott, but this is off topic. It's not that it's not an 
interesting topic, but rather that this list has 8500+ members and a 
purpose to discuss CSS, rather than one's choice of editor / 
scripting language / operating system / monitor and desktop 
arrangement etc...

http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic


Alex
css-d moderator
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Re: [css-d] hand coders vs wsywig coders...I had no idea

[Brian Cummiskey]

When I interview, asking what editor they use is one of the first 
questions I ask, and frankly, the same reaction is given if someone says 
Dreamweaver.  I won't hire them.

Even if they do use the code view, it means my company has to buy 
another adobe license for them at $ dollars instead of a $30 program 
or something free.

We're a very small firm, and software overhead is a huge consideration.
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Re: [css-d] hand coders vs wsywig coders...I had no idea

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 1:46 PM -0500 1/25/08, Scott Thigpen wrote:

>So do most of you guys hand code? Or do you use a wsywig editor to help?

Scott, I think your experience stunk.  And I say that as a 
dyed-in-the-wool hand-coder.
However, neither debating the merits nor determining the ratio of 
hand-coding versus tool-coding are really on topic.  Now, if we were 
to use this thread to collect a list of good CSS-aware tools not 
already listed on http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssEditors and 
add them, that would be awesome.  And if someone wants to set up a 
short-ish survey about people's CSS development habits, let us know 
you're on it and then announce the survey location once it's ready to 
go.  I'd be interested to know who uses what and how, but hashing it 
all out on the list isn't appropriate.  Sorry!

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
"CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously."
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
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Re: [css-d] hand coders vs wsywig coders...I had no idea

[Michael Hernandez]

I'm more of a lurker on this list but I thought I'd mention that there  
are some applications that are sort of an in-between (I mean between  
hand writing everything and letting the program do it all for you).  
Coda, for example, has a nice css editor built in. It lets you get CSS  
done with clicks but it also writes very clean CSS code so you can see  
exactly what's being changed. Coda is more of a GUI editor for  
programmers... where dreamweaver is more of a GUI editor for  
designers, I guess.

Also there is CSSEdit, which let's you do the same thing as Coda's CSS  
editor, with the exception being that it's ONLY for CSS editing, where  
as Coda is multi purpose.

Both of the above are mac applications, sorry if that makes this a  
useless reply ;) Just thought I'd mention that there are tools that  
can help you get CSS written without taking over the job for you  
completely. My CSS skills have greatly improved by trying things out  
with a CSS editor and then studying the code that the editor generates.

Good luck!

--Mike H
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Re: [css-d] hand coders vs wsywig coders...I had no idea

[Elli Vizcaino]

I use Dreamweaver but in code mode. I don't like using
their layout mode. I can equally code by hand in a
real simple editor like notepad. I guess you learn
from experience to never mention things like "I use
Dreamweaver" on interviews or state it in your resume,
because even though you could be coding by hand within
a wysiwyg people get the wrong idea about your
capabilities. 

On a different note, is the list now accepting posts
that are off topic? I've noticed a few OT posts as of
late without the usual flags from the admins. Just
wondering . . .

BTW, great work Scott!!!

Elli  

--- Scott Thigpen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

everything was
> going well until I said I
> coded with the aid of Dreamweaver.  Then you would
> have think I had punched
> the guy in the mouth. I mean there was not even
> "well we'll think about it"
> it was "we only use hand coders."  
> 
> So do most of you guys hand code? Or do you use a
> wsywig editor to help?
> 
> Thanks
> Scott
> 
> -- 
> S c o t t  T h i g p e n
> Illustrative Designer
> art: http://www.sthig.com
> design: http://www.thigpendesigns.com
> Phone: 770.527.3958
> _


  

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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Re: [css-d] hand coders vs wsywig coders...I had no idea

[Jon Hughes]

> 
> So do most of you guys hand code? Or do you use a wsywig editor to
> help?
> 
> Thanks
> Scott

I use dreamweaver, but I don't use the WYSIWYG tools, I really only use
it because I'm confortable with it, syntax highlighting and code
completion (when I type 'http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
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Re: [css-d] hand coders vs wsywig coders...I had no idea

[Big Moxy]

Since I've gotten into CSS and do a lot of back-end programming anyway I 
end up doing quite a bit of hand-coding. When you are scripting a 
display DW or any wysiwig editor for that matter is of little value. 
Sure it can provide the format but the end result is hand coding.

Tim

Scott Thigpen wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> Yesterday I was up for a job to take on a big website and design it.  They
> were real impressed with my work, everything was going well until I said I
> coded with the aid of Dreamweaver.  Then you would have think I had punched
> the guy in the mouth.  I mean there was not even "well we'll think about it"
> it was "we only use hand coders."  I'm not above doing hand coding, but I
> have no earthly idea where even to start without dreamweaver holding my
> hand.
>
> So do most of you guys hand code? Or do you use a wsywig editor to help?
>
> Thanks
> Scott
>
>   
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[css-d] hand coders vs wsywig coders...I had no idea

[Scott Thigpen]

Hi Guys,

Yesterday I was up for a job to take on a big website and design it.  They
were real impressed with my work, everything was going well until I said I
coded with the aid of Dreamweaver.  Then you would have think I had punched
the guy in the mouth.  I mean there was not even "well we'll think about it"
it was "we only use hand coders."  I'm not above doing hand coding, but I
have no earthly idea where even to start without dreamweaver holding my
hand.

So do most of you guys hand code? Or do you use a wsywig editor to help?

Thanks
Scott

-- 
S c o t t  T h i g p e n
Illustrative Designer
art: http://www.sthig.com
design: http://www.thigpendesigns.com
Phone: 770.527.3958
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Re: [css-d] Multiple Column Lists

[Adam Hardy]

Geoffrey Hoffman on 25/01/08 14:40, wrote:
> I'm trying to think of a case when you'd want to render a numbered menu in
> this fashion. From a usability standpoint it seems rather confusing.

Oh! Well, I figured it might, but hoped it wouldn't.

I appreciate your scripting example (although I'd do it in JSP) and I do think 
that anything like this from a scripting POV is possible, but as you say, from 
a 
usability POV, would you want to do it?

What I'm actually considering is not just an isolated numbered list, in fact my 
lists will be mostly just alphabetically sorted without numbers.

I'm at the prototyping stage of a 'framework' project, which will provide a 
basis for many (if we get it right) future websites. The framework is required 
to be provide building blocks such as JSP taglibraries that allow future 
projects to bash it out without too much effort.

It's also a K.I.S.S. style framework - no Web2, no javascript, no major hacks 
etc. It's the low end of the market, absent of bells and whistles.

This list requirement I am looking at here is one for form controls such as 
checkboxes or radio buttons where the item being edited is, say the students in 
a college, and the list is the topics from which must be allocated several.

A single column of checkboxes looks hopelessly skinny. Perhaps more detail on 
each line would make it look less skinny, but that would be disguise and not 
something to offer in a framework.

Horizontally flowing checkboxes just don't seem right.

A select combobox with multi-select turned on is too difficult to use.

The solution might be to go to a second page where a list of topics is shown to 
select from.

An pair of listboxes with javascript moving items from left to right and 
vice-versa isn't allowed, and forcing a form submit on each choice doesn't seem 
right.







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Re: [css-d] Suckerfish IE7 menu 'sticking'

[rollandburn]

I am so happy to have the help of all of you. really.  I am not a  
'natural' at this which makes for some pretty stressful deadlines and  
I cannot express how much weight you have taken off my shoulders by,  
well not just helping me, but by outright giving me the answer darnit!

Thanks alotI'm sure I'll be back!





On 25-Jan-08, at 11:24 AM, Alan Gresley wrote:

>
>> Message: 20
>> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:31:29 -0500
>> From: rollandburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subject: Re: [css-d] Suckerfish IE7 menu 'sticking'
>> To: css-d 
>> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>
>> Oh mani am not set up for this kind of bug testing!  Thanks  
>> Kevin.
>> rolland
>>
>> On 25-Jan-08, at 10:24 AM, Kevin Evans wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Rolland,
>>>
>>> Your answer is here:
>>>
>>> http://css-class.com/articles/explorer/sticky/index.htm
>>>
>>> Kevin
>
> Don't have to bug test. Just stick this in the CSS code for the menu:
>
> #nav li:hover {background-position: 0 0;} /* fixes sticky submenus  
> in IE7 */
>
> The article just delves into the mystery of the bug.
>
>
> Alan
>
> http://css-class.com/
>
>
>
>

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Re: [css-d] Extra vertical space between LI elements in IE

[David Hucklesby]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:36:45 -0500, Erik Domingo wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm having a problem with an unordered list, where there is extra vertical 
> space
> between LI elements when viewing in IE6 and IE7. You can see the problem at
> http://bdsredesign.bluelangroup.net/index.php, in the navigation links at the 
> upper
> left (Admissions, Faculty, etc). Note that the site appears correctly when 
> viewed in
> FF. The CSS can be viewed at 
> http://bdsredesign.bluelangroup.net/css/master.css.
>
[...]

To add to the suggestions you already have: *Sometimes* adding an extra
space character before the closing A tag fixes it. Don't know why or
under what circumstances, though.

Cordially,
David
--

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Re: [css-d] IE issues- oh gosh, here's the link!

[Geoffrey Hoffman]

Not to be flip, but have you read these:

http://www.ejeliot.com/blog/63

http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/cc-plus.html

http://24ways.org/2005/avoiding-css-hacks-for-internet-explorer



2008/1/25 Copeland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Geez louise. Here's the link: HYPERLINK
> "http://www.chsva.org/new"http://www.chsva.org/new
>
> It *has* been one of those days… ; )
>
> …And original post:
>
> Please help, two issues in IE6 & IE7 (but working fine in firefox):
>
>
>
> 1.The P7 Pop Menu Magic nav bar drops down *behind* the photograph,
> and
>
> looks all funky (I posted in their forum but no one has responded yet)
>
>
>
> 2.The buttons at the bottom are not vertically aligned within their
>
> divs- the content is all over the place! : (
>
>
>
> copeland casati
> president
> HYPERLINK "http://www.greenmodernkits.com"www.GreenModernKits.com
> 6902 park ave / rva 23226
> 804/ 515-7886
>
>
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1243 - Release Date:
> 1/25/2008
> 11:24 AM
>
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[css-d] IE issues- oh gosh, here's the link!

[Copeland]

Geez louise. Here’s the link: HYPERLINK
"http://www.chsva.org/new"http://www.chsva.org/new

It *has* been one of those days… ; )

…And original post:

Please help, two issues in IE6 & IE7 (but working fine in firefox):

 

1.The P7 Pop Menu Magic nav bar drops down *behind* the photograph, and

looks all funky (I posted in their forum but no one has responded yet)

 

2.The buttons at the bottom are not vertically aligned within their

divs- the content is all over the place! : ( 

 

copeland casati
president 
HYPERLINK "http://www.greenmodernkits.com"www.GreenModernKits.com
6902 park ave / rva 23226 
804/ 515-7886 

 


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1243 - Release Date: 1/25/2008
11:24 AM
 
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Re: [css-d] Why is my content hidden?

[David Laakso]

Big Moxy wrote:
> Good Morning All!
>
> http://projects.zanalysts.com/cargo/vehicledetails.html
> http://projects.zanalysts.com/cargo/firstweb.css
>
>
> The white background in the checklist stops about midway and the 
> background image takes over.
> The checklist itself goes behind the footer instead of pushing the 
> footer down.
>
>
> Tim
>   


#pageDef {
overflow: hidden; < :: add ::
height: 100%; <-- :: delete ::
}
* html #pageDef { <-- :: delete selector ::
height: 100%;
}
#content {
height: 100%; <-- :: delete ::
}

<-- :: add immediately above  ::

Validate before you post.

Best,
~dL

-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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[css-d] IE issues... but fine in firefox

[Copeland]

Please help, two issues in IE6 & IE7 (but working fine in firefox):

1.The P7 Pop Menu Magic nav bar drops down *behind* the photograph, and
looks all funky (I posted in their forum but no one has responded yet)

2.The buttons at the bottom are not vertically aligned within their
divs- the content is all over the place! : ( 

 


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[css-d] IE 6 floating images

[Christian Kirchhoff]

Hello,

please take a look at the following page with IE6:
http://www.digitale-bibliothek.de/Zenotest/blog_a.htm
http://www.digitale-bibliothek.de/Zenotest/style.css

I am having problems with floating images. The first image on the page 
(in the box "T-Shirt contest") is floated right. It doesn't matter 
whether the images are floated with css or via e.g. align="right". In 
IE6, the drop out of the normal box flow, the surrounding box's/div's 
height is not adjusted in a way that the image fits into it. First the 
image even fell behind the box (in z-order), so it was partly invisible. 
I was able to repair that by setting "position: relative;" for the image 
and the surrounding div.

The I wanted to set "clear: both;" for the feedback div. But that forces 
it to be placed (vertically) under the left menu, because that is 
floated, too.

In addition, as soon as a div.postbox contains a floated image, it's 
left margin is set to zero. The left edge of the first postbox 
containing the right floated image touches the right edge of the left 
menu column. If I would delete the left menu column, that postbox's left 
edge would go right to the left border of the page:
http://www.digitale-bibliothek.de/Zenotest/blog_b.htm
 But the contents of the postbox would still maintain the margin. Strange.

Does anybody know how I can get the feedback div to clear only any 
floated image within it's postbox, but not outside?
And does anybody know why the left border of the postbox behaves so 
strange if it contains a floated image?

Other browsers like Firefox or IE7 do it like expected, but IE6 now.

Regards,

Christian Kirchhoff
*Directmedia Publishing GmbH* · Möckernstraße 68 · 10965 Berlin
www.digitale-bibliothek.de
AG Berlin-Charlottenburg · HR B 58002 · USt.Id. DE173211737
Geschäftsführer: Ralf Szymanski · Erwin Jurschitza
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Re: [css-d] Multiple Column Lists

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Jan 25, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Chris Broadfoot wrote:

>> Is there any way to change the flow in the browser to vertical,  
>> like for
>> instance with Chinese text? Or am I dreaming?
>>
>
> Nope! Not until CSS3.

For CJK text, yes. But only if you are running Internet Explorer 5+.
For Roman text, I question the utility of this (in a broader context,  
semantics etc.).

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh






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Re: [css-d] checkbox + IE7 + zoom = overlapped text

[j s]

THANK YOU, PHILIPPE!  Using the suggestions offered at the link you  
provided, I added "position:relative;" to the container dl, and then  
"letter-spacing:0.1px; overflow:hidden;" to the dt containing the  
checkbox and the text, and it works now.

Thank you so much!  ~ Jen

On Jan 25, 2008, at 7:42 AM, j s wrote:
> If using IE7, and then Zoom In, the checkbox on the page linked below
> overlaps the text next to it. I've tried putting margins around the
> checkbox, padding, using display properties, but nothing seems to
> help. Anyone have any suggestions?
>
> http://inkpixelspaper.com/clients/rbmstaticsite/
>

for more.

Let us know how you ended up 'fixing' it.

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh

jenstrickland.com
617.492.2966
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 
**

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Re: [css-d] Two-column fluid layout

[David Laakso]

Murphy, Kristen Anne wrote:
> Murphy, Kristen Anne wrote:
>   
>> In Firefox and IE7, I'm getting a horizontal scroll bar. There's also 
>> approximately 1px worth of the body (red) showing through on the far right 
>> of the page. I'm guessing the two are related.
>>
>> Also in Firefox and IE7, the min-width isn't working properly. It's supposed 
>> to be scalable down to 760px, but the white space between the film reel and 
>> the words "Individualized Major Program" isn't collapsing far enough.
>>
>>
>> http://imp.purplelagoon.org/index.shtml
>>
>> http://imp.purplelagoon.org/css/imp.css
>> http://imp.purplelagoon.org/css/iestyle.css
>>
>> Kristen
>>
>> 



Kristan,


I tried a little different layout [1]: 700px min-width, 60em max-width 
(so the line-measure will not stretch from here to Havana), and a faux 
column (repeat y-axis fimage for the sidebar).
With this method you can set the font-family on the body, but font-size 
/must/ be indicated further in or the min/max will fail in IE. The "IE 
expressions" min/max are in the cc's.
It has been quick checked in IE/6, IE/7, Mac Opera, Firefox, & Safari.

[1] 

HTH.
Regards,
~dL

-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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[css-d] Why is my content hidden?

[Big Moxy]

Good Morning All!

http://projects.zanalysts.com/cargo/vehicledetails.html
http://projects.zanalysts.com/cargo/firstweb.css

This is actually a .Net site but for now my remote site is not 
configured for it. Instead I'm showing you the resolved HTML. The 
problems are obvious.

The white background in the checklist stops about midway and the 
background image takes over.
The checklist itself goes behind the footer instead of pushing the 
footer down.

Your help is greatly appreciated!!

Tim
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Re: [css-d] Suckerfish IE7 menu 'sticking'

[rollandburn]

Oh mani am not set up for this kind of bug testing!  Thanks Kevin.
rolland

On 25-Jan-08, at 10:24 AM, Kevin Evans wrote:

> Hey Rolland,
>
> Your answer is here:
>
> http://css-class.com/articles/explorer/sticky/index.htm
>
> Kevin
>
>
> On Jan 25, 2008, at 10:09 AM, rollandburn wrote:
>
>> I wonder if anyone could lend a hand with a problem i am having  
>> with a
>> sons of suckerfish menu in ie7..
>>
>> I did half this site while sick as a dog and am regretting some of  
>> the
>> groggy decisions I made but today is launch day and I am kinda stuck
>> with hacking at what I have.  The complaint I am getting only seems  
>> to
>> be present in IE7.  I say this because everything is fine on my mac
>> and my parallels IE6/Firefox shows no problems.
>>
>> The IE7 client says, "How come when I move my cursor over the menus,
>> they don't roll back up ... I mean they stick to the screen (so to
>> speak)  and if I click into one of the menus, say "Contact" for
>> example, the rest of them don't have the pull-down menus anymore.  
>> They
>> become static and I can only use the ones along the left side.."
>>
>> I can't even check this which is pretty embarassing.  Any help is
>> greatly appreciated.
>>
>> rolland
>>
>>
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Re: [css-d] Suckerfish IE7 menu 'sticking'

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

 >>The IE7 client says, "How come when I move my cursor over the menus,
they don't roll back up ... I mean they stick to the screen (so to
speak) <<

Maybe this will help?  it's a common issue :)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Son+of+Suckerfish+sticking+IE7&btnG=Google+Search

~Shelly
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Re: [css-d] I wish you could position and tile two background images at once

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

I'm confused.  So, you have the stripes running from left-to-right, and 
you want a fade to come in from the right to overlap them?

I've done this before - a few times actually.  Something like:



stuff here



Have the main_content be the outer containing div (looks like 
fixed-width, so this shouldn't be a problem) with your striped 
background.  Then "inner" should be 100% of the main_content width, with 
the fade-to-transparent PNG image overlapping.  The "Stuff here" section 
will force both divs to expand vertically, thus causing both backgrounds 
to repeat how you want, and get the effect you desire.

The only issue is in IE6, where using AlphaImageLoader will make the PNG 
work, but you can't set the position of the background image or the 
links inside that div will cease to function (but if you make the image 
right, and use the right filter, that shouldn't be a problem).

I hope I understood you correctly - if I did, then the above is what I 
do and it works fine.

~Shelly

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Re: [css-d] Suckerfish IE7 menu 'sticking'

[Kevin Evans]

Hey Rolland,

Your answer is here:

http://css-class.com/articles/explorer/sticky/index.htm

Kevin


On Jan 25, 2008, at 10:09 AM, rollandburn wrote:

> I wonder if anyone could lend a hand with a problem i am having with a
> sons of suckerfish menu in ie7..
>
> I did half this site while sick as a dog and am regretting some of the
> groggy decisions I made but today is launch day and I am kinda stuck
> with hacking at what I have.  The complaint I am getting only seems to
> be present in IE7.  I say this because everything is fine on my mac
> and my parallels IE6/Firefox shows no problems.
>
> The IE7 client says, "How come when I move my cursor over the menus,
> they don't roll back up ... I mean they stick to the screen (so to
> speak)  and if I click into one of the menus, say "Contact" for
> example, the rest of them don't have the pull-down menus anymore. They
> become static and I can only use the ones along the left side.."
>
> I can't even check this which is pretty embarassing.  Any help is
> greatly appreciated.
>
> rolland
>
>
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[css-d] IE Horizontal centering problems and a couple of other IE issues

[Toby Curl]

Hello, as the title says I am having a few issues with IE and css.

Here are the pages in question:

http://pi3.co.uk/design_test/index.html
http://pi3.co.uk/design_test/profile.html
http://pi3.co.uk/design_test/style.css

The pages work correctly in Firefox, Safari, Opera and others. The only 
problem I am having is with IE. I am using IE7 and have tried it in IE5 
and IE6, with the same results.

1) The main issue is that parts of the page (both on index.html (the 
whole page) and profile.html (parts of the page)) are not being centered 
and so are on the left and parts are overlapping.

See the screenshots for a better idea here: 
http://pi3.co.uk/design_test/screenshots/
The Firefox screens are how it should look.

2) The second issue is the bottom border of the menu buttons is cut off 
in IE: 
http://pi3.co.uk/design_test/screenshots/IE7_capture_24012008_201442.jpg
This is possibly a padding or similar issue though, but not sure.

3) The last issue is on the index.html page. As well as the elements not 
being centered horizontally (this should be covered in question one I 
think), the menu buttons are far too widely spaced and their button 
border is slightly too thick.

Thank you for any help.

Toby
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[css-d] Suckerfish IE7 menu 'sticking'

[rollandburn]

I wonder if anyone could lend a hand with a problem i am having with a  
sons of suckerfish menu in ie7..

I did half this site while sick as a dog and am regretting some of the  
groggy decisions I made but today is launch day and I am kinda stuck  
with hacking at what I have.  The complaint I am getting only seems to  
be present in IE7.  I say this because everything is fine on my mac  
and my parallels IE6/Firefox shows no problems.

The IE7 client says, "How come when I move my cursor over the menus,  
they don't roll back up ... I mean they stick to the screen (so to  
speak)  and if I click into one of the menus, say "Contact" for  
example, the rest of them don't have the pull-down menus anymore. They  
become static and I can only use the ones along the left side.."

I can't even check this which is pretty embarassing.  Any help is  
greatly appreciated.

rolland


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Re: [css-d] Multiple Column Lists

[Geoffrey Hoffman]

I'm trying to think of a case when you'd want to render a numbered menu in
this fashion. From a usability standpoint it seems rather confusing.

At any rate, if you made a nested repeat loop in your server side scripting
language to figure out how many rows & columns you need, you can easily
achieve this with, for example, a div for each column that has a width of,
say, 10px, and li elements with 9px width (with display block, they'll
automatically bump down and stack:



   
  1
  2
  3
  


   
  4
  5
  6
  

.
.
.
you just can't do it with a single ul li (yet). On a whim, I tried doing
this and it is a bit more tricky than it seems, but I got it to work. Just
put your links into the array, and you can change the value for $rows.



http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd";>
http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml";>

Vertically Stacked List Item Grid

#col1, #col2, #col3{
width:20px;
float:left;
}
ul {
margin:0;
padding:0;
}
li {
list-style:none;
width:15px;
}


'p01.php', '2'=>'p02.php', '3'=>'p03.php', '4'=>'p04.php',
'5'=>'p05.php','6'=>'p06.php','7'=>'p07.php' );
$rows = 3;
$currentrow = 0;
$totallinks = 0;
$currentcolumn = 0;
$linktext = array_keys( $links );
$linkhref = array_values( $links );

foreach( $links as $L ) {
$currentrow++;
if( $currentrow==1 ) {
$currentcolumn++;
echo "\n\t";
echo "".
$linktext[$totallinks] ."\n\t";
}else{
if( $currentrow==$rows ){
echo "".
$linktext[$totallinks] ."\n\t";
echo "\n";
$currentrow = 0; //reset counter
}else{
echo "".
$linktext[$totallinks] ."\n\t";
}
}
$totallinks++;
if( $totallinks == count( $links ) ) {
echo "\n";
}
}

?>


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Re: [css-d] Style tag AFTER body tag?

[JF]

Jennifer Knowles wrote:
> Can I put the 

Re: [css-d] Extra vertical space between LI elements in IE

[Geoffrey Hoffman]

This may not apply to everyone, but I've found it helpful to use PHP
comments - thereby making code readable but having less gunk in the final
output:

Link 1Link 2Link 3


With that said, having space between
...firstsecond...
generally causes an apparent 'margin-right' or 'margin-left' space between
the tabs in a horizontal nav in IE that is the result of it stupidly
rendering a space character in the inherited font size (I believe) between
list items.

Erik's original problem is a slight extra 'margin-bottom' that is being
applied to either the li or a elements in his vertical nav-main... which (as
I posted earlier, I believe) is caused by a rule with a margin of 3.5px or
padding of 0.27em.

Tweaking the 3.5px to a 4px in Firebug made the nav taller, and more
IE-like; tweaking the 0.27em to 0.3 padding had a similar effect.



On Jan 25, 2008 5:46 AM, Gabriel Padoan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've done some search, and I found this tip:
> http://phonophunk.com/articles/ie-fix-for-gaps-between-list-items.php
>
> Trying to find this one (that I usually use for this):
> 
> Item Um
> Item Dois
> 
> 
>
> The second I know that works very well, but the first I have not
> tested because I use Linux, and I can run IE for testing.
>
> Another way is input comments:
> 
> Item UmItem Dois
> 
>
> But it's too ugly for the code...
>
> Hope it helps!
>
> On Jan 24, 2008 3:12 PM, Erik Domingo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Validated the markup - except for an issue with a bit of javascript in
> the
> > footer, the page is valid Strict XHTML. I also tried removing all the
> > whitespace between  tags, but the extra vertical space is still
> showing
> > in IE6 & 7.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > TIA,
> > Erik
> >
> >
> > On Jan 23, 2008 5:35 PM, David Laakso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Erik Domingo wrote:
> > > > I'm having a problem with an unordered list...]
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Erik Domingo
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Validate the markup. Write back if you still drop the float in IE/6.0
> > > and have more vertical space between the li's in IE6 & 7.
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://chelseacreekstudio.com/
> > >
> > >
> > __
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gabriel de Oliveria Padoan
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[css-d] I wish you could position and tile two background images at once

[Geoffrey Hoffman]

In my last group review on a site I'm re-designing, I made the mistake
of screen-capturing the site at its current state, pasting it into
Photoshop, and letting several people standing around my computer
throw out suggestions about ways to tweak the site visually. It was a
little nerve-racking, but actually turned out to be a challenging and
energizing experience. The end result was something that stumped my
CSS ability. Rats.

Basically, I had built the site as a horizontally-centered fixed-width
single column div that used, for the body background-image, a 1-px
height, 1024px wide repeat-y tile. Originally, I had 3 stripes in the
3 company colors created in the 1px tile going down the left side of
the page. During the review, a suggestion was made to fade out the
stripes down the left hand side of the page vertically. I did it in
Photoshop in seconds, and everyone gathered around immediately said,
"ooh, yeah, we like it, do it like that" and the meeting was
adjourned.

When I sat down to implement it in CSS2 I realized it couldn't be done
without having issues in one way or another... or support for two
tiled background images.

The only way I could preserve most of the original code and page
structure would be to make the background image extremely large,
because I'd need to include the entire page 1024 wide, by a height
of... oh yeah, my site is dynamic with some pages a lot taller than
others. So it'd have to be at least 1024 x 1600... an 800px height
with, i guess, a gradiation back to the solid stripes? Otherwise you'd
see the stripes start up again. So, huge background image to download
-- yuk. Non-seamless tiling -- yuk.

I tried making the side fade in separate pieces, but I couldn't get
them to position perfectly when resizing the browser window, and you
could see the edges not lining up due to the stripes - meaning, when
the div containing the gradient tile moved over the (completely faded
out background tile) the illusion is broken, even if only 1 pixel,
even if for only a moment.

The only other way I could think of to do it was put the 1px tile
background-image on body and add a  surrounding
everything else in the page (a container for a second background
image), with the stripe fading out as a non-tiled left-top aligned
background image. The trouble with this is that #page only extends as
far down the page as the dynamic content inside it, and on short pages
the fading image breaks too early.

I ended up rewriting all my lovely table-less CSS2 goodness by hacking
a junky, old-school 3x3 table together with a single, tall tiling
image in column 4. I'm so ashamed. But it works (sort of, for now -
I'm on deadline.) Even this has potential breakage issues.

The current version is staged here:

http://www.stgmediacorp.com/v3/
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Re: [css-d] Why is a class ignored inside an ID?

[Geoffrey Hoffman]

Thanks, Arlen.

Originally I was thinking that I should change my original HTML, from...


   

...to...



...or...


   

...to make the selectors as simple as possible...

.outer a
#inner a

...or...

.inner a
.outer a

... but in retrospect, it makes more sense structurally for both outer
and inner to be IDs because in my example, there would be exactly one
outer and one inner in my page. So, once I realized (duh) that I could
simply target the inner class specifically through #outer .inner a,
the lightbulb came on.

I like this list.

Geoff




On Jan 24, 2008 3:40 PM, Arlen Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Jan 23, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Geoffrey Hoffman wrote:
>
> > #outer { border:4px solid red; }
> > #outer a { color:red; }
> > .inner { border:4px solid green; }
> > .inner a { color:green; }
>
> The why has been answered well, but let me chime in. If you want it
> green, simply replace
>
> .inner { border:4px solid green; }
> .inner a { color:green; }
>
> with
>
> #outer .inner { border:4px solid green; }
> #outer .inner a { color:green; }
>
> and you'll have it green.
>
> Get used to the cascade and specificty rules, and you can create some
> interesting effects.
>
> Have Fun,
> Arlen
>
> --
> In God we trust, all others must supply data
>
>
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Re: [css-d] Multiple Column Lists

[Chris Broadfoot]

Adam Hardy wrote:
> 1 4 7
> 2 5 8
> 3 6 9
> 
> I read the article "Do You Want To Do That With CSS? - Multiple Column Lists" 
> [1] by Holly Bergevin and John Gallant online about how to display lists 
> across 
> multiple columns and make the item order follow the columns rather than flow 
> along the rows.
> 
> [1] http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?page=2&cid=27F87
> 
> Is there any way to change the flow in the browser to vertical, like for 
> instance with Chinese text? Or am I dreaming?
> 

Nope! Not until CSS3.

Chris.
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Re: [css-d] Question about wrappers/containers

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

J wrote:
> (www.stainlessband.com/index.html)

> I'm having an issue with the width of the wrapper div. When I 
> designed the page I did so on my laptop, which has a maximum screen 
> resolution of 1024x768. But my desktop PC is set on 1152x864 and when
>  I pull up the page in the browser there is background space between 
> the graphics and the outer edges of the wrapper div. This isn't the 
> intended design, as I want no space between the graphics and the 
> wrapper.

The #wrapper is set to center inside the graphic-containers, but the
graphic-containers will keep on expanding in width with the browser-window.

One way to solve it is to add a 'max-width: (some value)' and 'margin: 0
auto' on #leftBody, to prevent the graphic-containers from expanding
beyond the width you've designed for and center on wider windows.


regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] Question about wrappers/containers

[Jim Davis]

Jason,

If I understand correctly, you are after something that looks sort of like
this example:

http://www.jimdavis.org/test/stainlesstest.html

This uses a background image placed in the body {...}. The image is 2500
pixels wide by 1 pixel high with a center section of black that is 760px
wide. The image is given a position of 50% 0 to make the center of the image
appear in the center of the viewport regardless of the users screen width.

The wrapper is set to 740px wide and margin: 0 auto; to place it inside the
black section and leave a little space around the text.

As a side note, you may not want to base your design on any assumption of
the users screen width. The availability of lower cost wide-screen monitors
means larger numbers of users have screen widths that can be wider than you
may anticipate. My screen width is 1920px, for example, and there seems to
be growing numbers of users with even wider widths.

Jim

On Jan 25, 2008 1:45 AM, J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> ... I want no space
> between the graphics and the wrapper.
>
> This is the current code for the #wrapper ID here:
>
>#wrapper {
>background-color:#99;
>height:700px;
>letter-spacing:-1px;
>margin:0pt auto;
>position:relative;
>text-align:left;
>width:760px;
>word-spacing:-2px;
>}
> ...
>
> Thanks
> ~Jason
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Re: [css-d] Multiple Column Lists

[Adam Hardy]

david on 25/01/08 08:57, wrote:
> Adam Hardy wrote:
>> 1 4 7
>> 2 5 8
>> 3 6 9
>>
>> I read the article "Do You Want To Do That With CSS? - Multiple Column 
>> Lists" 
>> [1] by Holly Bergevin and John Gallant online about how to display lists 
>> across 
>> multiple columns and make the item order follow the columns rather than flow 
>> along the rows.
>>
>> At the end they round off the article with the sentence "this technique is 
>> only 
>> useful for static pages, and cannot be made to easily work in a dynamic page 
>> where unknown numbers of list items may be included "
>>
>> ... which is a slight drawback since that's exactly what I'd like to do!
> 
> I would think that if you're dynamically generating the pages, you could 
>   dynamically determine how many items are included in that particular 
> page, and spit out the code to position it properly. So if you have nine 
> items (as in your example), you spit out three divs, each holding a list 
> with three items, with the starting value of each list set dynamically 
> to begin the number following the last item in the previous list. If you 
> have 12 items, you spit out the same three divs, but put four items in 
> each list and adjust the start values.

That's a good work-around. I can do that, and in fact if I put these sub-lists 
into floated divs, they will rack up to the right to fill the page horizontally.

The only downside would be that the divs would wrap, so I'd have to put a 
bigger 
margin at the bottom of the divs to make it clear that there's a new 'super-row'

1  4  7  10  13  16  19
2  5  8  11  14  17  20
3  6  9  12  15  18  21

22  25  28  31  34  37
23  26  29  32  35  38
24  27  30  33  36  39

40  43  46
41  44  47
42  45

I rarely overestimate my UI design abilities - is that something that the user 
would accept?

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Re: [css-d] Multiple Column Lists

[Adam Hardy]

Jim Davis on 25/01/08 02:08, wrote:
> Is there any way to change the flow in the browser to vertical, like
> for
> instance with Chinese text? Or am I dreaming?
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a link to information about a JavaScript / CSS3 implementation 
> of what you are interested in.
> http://www.csscripting.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
> 
> Unfortunately, this solution requires a browser that includes the css3 
> multi-column module, such as Firefox or Opera.

Hi Jim,

there's an interesting piece of text about Mozart there :) My knowledge of 
Mozart is based solely on the film Amadeus!

Shame I can't use Javascript! Won't it be great when CSS3 is released? That 
column-count is exactly what I need.

Cheers
Adam
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Re: [css-d] Extra vertical space between LI elements in IE

[Gabriel Padoan]

I've done some search, and I found this tip:
http://phonophunk.com/articles/ie-fix-for-gaps-between-list-items.php

Trying to find this one (that I usually use for this):

Item Um
Item Dois



The second I know that works very well, but the first I have not
tested because I use Linux, and I can run IE for testing.

Another way is input comments:

Item UmItem Dois


But it's too ugly for the code...

Hope it helps!

On Jan 24, 2008 3:12 PM, Erik Domingo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Validated the markup - except for an issue with a bit of javascript in the
> footer, the page is valid Strict XHTML. I also tried removing all the
> whitespace between  tags, but the extra vertical space is still showing
> in IE6 & 7.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> TIA,
> Erik
>
>
> On Jan 23, 2008 5:35 PM, David Laakso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Erik Domingo wrote:
> > > I'm having a problem with an unordered list...]
> > >
> >
> > > Erik Domingo
> > >
> >
> >
> > Validate the markup. Write back if you still drop the float in IE/6.0
> > and have more vertical space between the li's in IE6 & 7.
> >
> > --
> > http://chelseacreekstudio.com/
> >
> >
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-- 
Gabriel de Oliveria Padoan
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Re: [css-d] checkbox + IE 7 + zoom = overlapped text

[DAVOUD TOHIDY]

>Anyone have any suggestions?
>http://inkpixelspaper.com/clients/rbmstaticsite/
 
Jen,
 
add the following to your css:
 
* + html dl dt a { display:inline-block}
 
I like to use IE conditional comments to seperate the styles for IE
and this is not the way I usually work myself. However that will do it for you.
 
I must add that your layout suffers from other layout stability problems as 
well.
 
If you Increase the text size in IE7 you will have problems. Sorry I did not 
have
time to fix them for you.
 
best
davoud
P.S. : To contribute to Layout Stability research please visit
http://cssfreelancer.awardspace.com/stability.html
 
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[css-d] Question about wrappers/containers

[J]

I'm still working on the page that I had asked for help on before 
(www.stainlessband.com/index.html) and I'm having an issue with the 
width of the wrapper div. When I designed the page I did so on my 
laptop, which has a maximum screen resolution of 1024x768. But my 
desktop PC is set on 1152x864 and when I pull up the page in the browser 
there is background space between the graphics and the outer edges of 
the wrapper div. This isn't the intended design, as I want no space 
between the graphics and the wrapper.

This is the current code for the #wrapper ID here:

#wrapper {
background-color:#99;
height:700px;
letter-spacing:-1px;
margin:0pt auto;
position:relative;
text-align:left;
width:760px;
word-spacing:-2px;
}

I've tried taking out the "position: relative" property and putting in 
"margin-left" and "margin-right" properties both set to auto, but it 
doesn't make a difference either way. I've also tried adding a "float: 
inherit" property to no avail.

I figure that the conflict exists with the width property and the screen 
resolution on my desktop, but there's got to be a way to overcome that 
problem. Am I wrong with setting the width property to 760px or is it 
something else I'm missing or that I have set wrong?

Thanks
~Jason
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Re: [css-d] Style tag AFTER body tag?

[david]

James Leslie wrote:
> Can I put the 

Re: [css-d] Multiple Column Lists

[david]

Adam Hardy wrote:
> 1 4 7
> 2 5 8
> 3 6 9
> 
> I read the article "Do You Want To Do That With CSS? - Multiple Column Lists" 
> [1] by Holly Bergevin and John Gallant online about how to display lists 
> across 
> multiple columns and make the item order follow the columns rather than flow 
> along the rows.
> 
> At the end they round off the article with the sentence "this technique is 
> only 
> useful for static pages, and cannot be made to easily work in a dynamic page 
> where unknown numbers of list items may be included "
> 
> ... which is a slight drawback since that's exactly what I'd like to do!

I would think that if you're dynamically generating the pages, you could 
  dynamically determine how many items are included in that particular 
page, and spit out the code to position it properly. So if you have nine 
items (as in your example), you spit out three divs, each holding a list 
with three items, with the starting value of each list set dynamically 
to begin the number following the last item in the previous list. If you 
have 12 items, you spit out the same three divs, but put four items in 
each list and adjust the start values.

-- 
David
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
authenticity, honesty, community
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Re: [css-d] checkbox + IE 7 + zoom = overlapped text

[DAVOUD TOHIDY]

> On Jan 25, 2008, at 7:42 AM, j s wrote:> > > If using IE7, and then Zoom In, 
> the checkbox on the page linked below> > overlaps the text next to it. I've 
> tried putting margins around the> > checkbox, padding, using display 
> properties, but nothing seems to> > help. Anyone have any suggestions?> >> > 
> http://inkpixelspaper.com/clients/rbmstaticsite/> > .
Your page does not validate. Validate and repost please.
 
regards
davoud
 
 
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