date:20010912

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Edward Britton wrote:
>>   A crazed Moslem fundamentalist sect
>>intent on conducting a holy war against us is no more representative of
>>the rank and file of Islam, than the Aryan Nation is representative of
>>the rank and file of the Christian faith...
>
>Neither of which you know anything about--unless, of course, you can speak
>for the rank and file of anyone, much less the two extremist organizations
>you mention.

So you admit it was an extremist organization and not your regular John
and Jane Q follower of Islam

>>Yet Peter Jennings suggested something similar, that airlines will need
>>to start carrying armed guards on board...now THAT is a scary idea,
>
>Only to useless government junkies dependent on others for ensuring their
>security, but then life itself is scary to such persons.

I was referring to private security guards, which would probably be what
the airlines would use.  I've worked as a part-time security guard in the
past, and know from firsthand experience that rarely is training
provided; if the firm desires an armed guard, they just hire any
abled-bodied person who has a pistol permit and owns their own gun to use
on the job...

And what you have working for private security firms fall into a handful
of distinct categories:

- people like me who work part-time for whatever reason; most of this
group either have 'real' jobs and work security part-time to supplement
their income; or they're college students who find working security an
easy way to make money and do their homework at the same time; because it
is a part-time job there is no medical insurance provided, so you won't
find this group taking extraordinary measures should an 'incident' occur;
it is also unlikely that a part-time guard would be used as an armed
guard on a plane

- a second distinct group one finds working as security guards are
retirees supplementing their SSI and pensions; you might find a handful
willing to be an armed guard on a plane, but you wouldn't want them to,
trust me...at best, their reflexes are slow...if a hijacking occured on
one of their watches, they'd probably die of a heartattack immediately...

- then you have the full-time rent-a-cops, and these are a scary bunch;
these are guys who really wanted to be real cops but failed the
psychological and/or mental tests; they get off on wearing a uniform and
won't hesitate to act the 'big shot'; it's basically a case of 'you get
what you pay for', and if you want to trust your safety and welfare to
someone who got absolutely NO training (hell, they don't even need a
highschool diploma or GED), and gets paid between $8 to $11 an hour with
minimal benefits, be my guest.  But I would prefer armed guards that
needed to achieve a certain standard to even be hired, and then are
required to undergo extensive training, and are paid more than slightly
above the minimum wage...

>>  if the guards are your usual 'rent a cop' private security guard...
>
>A gun in the hands of anyone trained to use it would have prevented any one
>of these tragedies.

Again I repeat:  private security companies do NOT provide such training;
when they need an armed guard, they put an ad in the classifieds asking
for applications from people who have a pistol permit and own their own
gun.  The applicant may not have ever used the gun since getting the
permit years before, may not be able to hit the side of a barn ten paces
off, but they'll get hired to be an armed guard as long as they have
never been convicted of a felony...

Once I worked with another guard -- a full-timer -- who'd been recently
released from a mental hospital, and who hallucinated snakes under desks,
etc.

If you want to give someone like that a gun and put him on a plane and
think you'll be safe, as I said, be my guestI'll take the train,
thank you.

>>I think a better idea would be to allow -- or even require -- that the
>>cockpit crew carry sidearms
>
>Damn, June, that's not a bad idea. Maybe someone should have suggested that
>flight crews be armed (ROFL!)

Yep, I weigh in seconding Dennis' suggestion...

June

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CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Terrorism on Trial (Daniel Pipes and Steven Emerson) July, 2001


-Caveat Lector-

Amelia - road to peace, we declare war on Israel this albatross has been
on our back long enough.

Then we must find out more about these pilots - for they seem to have a
lot in common with the Kamakaze kids at Littleton who forever changed
the way we feel about schools.

Zionism is the enemyand ADL is their guestapo who not too long
ago even tried to censor the Egyptian press.

Declare war on Israel, and cut of the billions we give them in aid and
peace be to the Holy Land - New York City could use htis money now.

Saba

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==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] FW: US now giving over $100 Million/yr to Taliban

2001-09-12 Thread Nessie


-Caveat Lector-

Subject:[RWWATCH]  US now giving over $100 Million/yr to Taliban

RWWATCH -- September 12, 2001

[The Taliban is the Islamic fundamentalist government
  now in control of Afghanistan, that has been accused of
  protecting Osama Bin Laden.

  I received the article below from Mattingly Conner
  "Mattingly Conner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.  Before releasing this,
  I checked it out a bit and added 5 additional links.  The
  aid mentioned was targeted, mostly for supplying
  wheat and food.  And this is not just a GWB issue: it
  continued a policy left over from the Clinton years.

  But not all of the annual US aid is for food, apparently.
  According to the CNN link referenced below, total US
  aid for the Taliban was $124.2 million this year.
  It kind of makes you wonder whether it might be a good
  idea to ask Bush, before making grave pronouncements
  about "those who harbor terrorists", might do well to
  might do well to consider why his administration is
  sending fat checks to those very same "harborers."

  -rc]

see also:

STOP GENDER APARTHEID IN AFGHANISTAN; update as of today
http://www.feminist.com/activism/afghanalert.html
http://www.feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=5796

Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan
http://songs.rawa.org/rawa/index.html

U.S. gives $43 million to Afghanistan
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/05/17/us.afghanistan.aid/index.html

Taliban gets US Aid!
http://www.grazianoforcongress.com/taliban.htm

Indian Express Editorial
http://www.indian-express.com/ie20010525/ed2.html

one possible web search:
http://www.google.com/search?q=%2243+million%22+taliban






http://www.robertscheer.com/1_natcolumn/01_columns/052201.htm

Bush's Faustian Deal With the Taliban By Robert Scheer
Published May 22, 2001 in the Los Angeles Times

Enslave your girls and women, harbor anti-U.S. terrorists,
destroy every vestige of civilization in your homeland, and
the Bush administration will embrace you. All that matters
is that you line up as an ally in the drug war, the only
international cause that this nation still takes
seriously.

That's the message sent with the recent gift of $43 million
to the Taliban rulers of Afghanistan, the most virulent
anti-American violators of human rights in the world today.
The gift, announced last Thursday by Secretary of State
Colin Powell, in addition to other recent aid, makes the
U.S. the main sponsor of the Taliban and rewards that "rogue
regime" for declaring that opium growing is against the will
of God. So, too, by the Taliban's estimation, are most human
activities, but it's the ban on drugs that catches this
administration's attention.

Never mind that Osama bin Laden still operates the leading
anti-American terror operation from his base in Afghanistan,
from which, among other crimes, he launched two bloody
attacks on American embassies in Africa in 1998.

Sadly, the Bush administration is cozying up to the Taliban
regime at a time when the United Nations, at U.S.
insistence, imposes sanctions on Afghanistan because the
Kabul government will not turn over Bin Laden.

The war on drugs has become our own fanatics' obsession and
easily trumps all other concerns. How else could we come to
reward the Taliban, who has subjected the female half of the
Afghan population to a continual reign of terror in a
country once considered enlightened in its treatment of
women?

At no point in modern history have women and girls been more
systematically abused than in Afghanistan where, in the name
of madness masquerading as Islam, the government in Kabul
obliterates their fundamental human rights. Women may not
appear in public without being covered from head to toe with
the oppressive shroud called the burkha , and they may not
leave the house without being accompanied by a male family
member. They've not been permitted to attend school or be
treated by male doctors, yet women have been banned from
practicing medicine or any profession for that matter.

The lot of males is better if they blindly accept the laws
of an extreme religious theocracy that prescribes strict
rules governing all behavior, from a ban on shaving to what
crops may be grown. It is this last power that has captured
the enthusiasm of the Bush White House.

The Taliban fanatics, economically and diplomatically
isolated, are at the breaking point, and so, in return for a
pittance of legitimacy and cash from the Bush
administration, they have been willing to appear to reverse
themselves on the growing of opium. That a totalitarian
country can effectively crack down on its farmers is not
surprising. But it is grotesque for a U.S. official, James
P. Callahan, director of the State Department's Asian
anti-drug program, to describe the Taliban's special methods
in the language of representative democracy: "The Taliban
used a system of consensus-building," Callahan said after a
visit with the Taliban, adding that the Taliban justified
the ban on drugs "in ver

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Terrorism on Trial (Daniel Pipes and Steven Emerson) July, 2001

2001-09-12 Thread c.


-Caveat Lector-

the original remark and this shitty, pompous reply underlines the pathetic
attitude you have toward people.
i mean- in your hour of grief you attack other nations (without substance)-
if you cannot see how vile that is...
trivial nitpicking? fuck you- every other country in the world has been
attacked- in war and in peace- when we pick up the dead we are not boasting
that we are better at it than those darned americans.
your attitude diminishes the sympathy that might be felt for you.
fuck you.

- Original Message -
From: "Amelia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 3:07 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Terrorism on Trial (Daniel Pipes and Steven
Emerson) July, 2001


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> c.,
> May God forgive me if in my grief I have been insensitive to a
> British soccer fan! We are digging out over 20,000 dead, c.  Do you
> realize that I am about roughly as far from New York as the entire
> EU?  I was trying to be supportive of them.  That's all. There has
> never been a terrorist attack of this magnitude for comparison.  I
> think they behaved admirable.  It could have been sheer chaos.  I
> want the people of the NYC area to know the rest of the country is
> behind them and supportive.
>
>  I have no knowledge of soccer and no particular incident in mind.
> It was the first example of trampling that came to my mind. I spoke
> without research. Obviously, I should have put aside my own shock
> and grief and thought of you and the other fans instead. In fact my
> mind was elsewhere, if you can believe it.  I was thinking of our
> dead and not the sensibilities of British or other fans!  How could
> I?  Where are my priorities?  But now that you have injected this
> trivial subject into an otherwise serious discussion, I hate
> soccer.  I always have.  I bet now I always will. I have only heard
> reports of trampling at games.  Period.  I used what I had heard as
> an example of trampling.  Take it personally if you like or take it
> any way at all for I do not care what you think.
>
> I think this is not the time for nit-picking as you are doing and I
> do not appreciate it one bit.  If you do not like what I am saying,
> do not read my posts.  When times are tough, we find out who our
> real friends are.  I hope you never have to deal with a situation
> like this but if you do, I hope some little creep will not crawl
> out from under a rock and try to put words in your mouth and issue
> veiled threats about something you cannot even understand and
> invent some slight in the midst of your mourning.  Go crawl back
> under your rock and allow us to deal with our grief in peace. You
> are despicable!  What an utter lack of compassion.  I do not give a
> rat's ass if you and your soccer teams trample each other to death
> for obviously you have not one shred of concern for what we are
> going through in this country.
> ~Amelia~
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "c." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 4:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Terrorism on Trial (Daniel Pipes and
> Steven Emerson) July, 2001
>
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Amelia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 7:47 PM
> Subject: [CTRL] Fwd: Terrorism on Trial (Daniel Pipes and Steven
> Emerson)
> July, 2001
>
>
> Compare
> > and contrast that to soccer games where they trample each other
> to
> > death!
>
> be extremely careful with the accuracy of your sources, amelia,
> when you
> deny that it is a case of an american claiming to be better at
> dealing with
> emergancies than... a european? or who? american soccer fans?
> do you have an incident in mind? i can think of two you may be
> mistakenly
> refering to... cause i just wanna vomit on ya when i read the
> above.
> am i wrong to jump to conclusions about your meaning? you cannot
> really be
> so sick as to gloat about how great and better you americans are in
> a tragic
> situation than other nationalities. mistakenly too... well, there's
> a
> surprise.
> but, please, show me i am mistaken.
>
> <
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Avai

[CTRL] Dunking for $$$

2001-09-12 Thread Euphorian


-Caveat Lector-

From
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,551081,00.html

}}}>Begin
Trade
US strikes could lose Britain £6bn from Middle East
Business fears kneejerk retaliation
Special report: Terrorism in the US
Special report: Israel and the Middle East
Guardian Unlimited Money
Terry Macalister
Thursday September 13, 2001
The Guardian
Business leaders last night warned that up to £6bn a year in trade and
investment could be jeopardised by any kneejerk strike by the US against
Middle East targets.
Alarm expressed by the Middle East Association, which promotes business
links between Britain and Arab countries, came as oil, defence and banking
firms heightened security arrangements in the region.
Brian Constant, director general of the Middle East Association, expressed
concern that US president might be tempted to launch military action there.
"This is an incredibly important region for British business. I am worried there
is a crazy kneejerk reaction on what turns out to be the wrong target as has
happened in the past. If Britain gave its support for such a mo
ve it would be very serious for UK commercial interests," he explained.
Shell, BAE Systems and HSBC are among the leading British-based firms active in the 
Middle East either directly or through subsidiaries. They help draw in some £3bn in 
physical trade a year with a further £3bn estimated t
o come from invisibles such as insurance and shipping.
London is also a magnet for inward investment, often from wealthy Arabs who are among 
the most active foreign buyers of houses and land in the British Isles. Even difficult 
political relations between Britain and nations
such as Iran and Libya has not stopped a robust level of contact in both directions.
State oil companies from Iran and Libya control substantial global purchasing 
operations in London. British oil companies are increasingly excited about prospects 
for contracts in both these nations despite US sanctions,
which have been recently renewed.
Shell is active in a range of Middle East countries including Iran, Saudi Arabia, Oman 
and the United Arab Emirates. A spokeswoman said its first actions in the aftermath of 
the US attacks was to look after the safety of
its employees.
Asked specifically about the Middle East, she added: "We are reviewing our
security and advising staff what measures they need to adopt. For obvious
reasons I cannot go into exactly what that involves."
BAE Systems, a prime contractor in the Al-Yamamah Tornado jet and Hawk
Trainer aircraft contract with Saudi Arabia, said it too was taking the
appropriate measures to keep its 5,000 staff safe. "We have a well tuned
organisation in Saudi and we have raised levels of security in conjunction
with the UK and Saudi governments, but people are always aware of the
political sensitivity of the country and the region," said a spokesman.
City analysts said oil companies might benefit from a temporary raising of
crude prices while defence firms might win more orders as countries beef up
their military might. They saw no gainers if the Middle East was attacked.
Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2001

End<{{{
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believe in anything merely on the authority of Teachers, elders or wise men.
Believe only after careful observation and analysis, when you find that it
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Then accept it and live up to it."
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[CTRL] Fwd: [CIA-DRUGS] Bush's Press Conference: Into the Abyss









URL for this article:
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/rozoff/abyss.htm

To join Emperor's Clothes email list, go to
http://emperors-clothes.com/feedback.htm. Receive~one
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www.tenc.net [Emperor's Clothes]

===
Bush's Press Conference: Into the Abyss
by Rick Rozoff [Posted 12 September 2001]

[Mr. Rozzoff is an editor of Emperor's Clothes]
===

As many of you have, I just watched US President
Bush's White House press conference on yesterday's
gruesome events in New York City and Washington, D.C.

Bush and the United States federal government have
officially declared war...only it is not evident
against whom.

Subsequent reports indicate that Bush will appear
before the U.S. Congress to invoke the War Powers Act,
passed by the House in the 1970s to limit a
president's ability to wage war unilaterally and
arbitrarily, but destroyed as an effective mechanism
for doing so in April of 1999 when the Clinton
Administration, for the first time in US history, was
denied authorization to continue a war - against
Yugoslavia - in a 213-213 vote in the Congress. Within
an hour of that vote a Clinton National Security
Council spokesman was on national television shrieking
that not only would the bombing not stop, but that it
would be intensified.

By the US Congress accepting that crude diktat and
nevertheless appropriating funding for the
continuation of the illegal war, it definitively
signalled the end of the US Constitutional role of
America's formal representatives to oversee and rein
in the chief executive - half a president, half a
monarch - in future acts of illegal miitary actions
and aggression abroad.

It appears that each successive American
administration pushes yet further the boundaries of
armed adventurism and catastrophe.

As all the news commentators assure us, Bush will
receive near-unanimous carte blanche authorization to
wage war whenever, wherever and against whomever he
finds it expedient to do so.

The US Congress, Republicans and Democrats,
conservatives and liberals, avowed war hawks and
alleged Progressive Caucus members, will grant him
whatever he requests: The funds and support to attack
any country or countries, even those not even remotely
implicated in yesterday's attacks, and the use of
whatever weaponry, conventional and otherwise, he
should choose to employ.

What in fact Mr. Bush will soon be armed with - by
that assemblage of professional politicians on the
Hill who yesterday evening broke into a spontaneous
chorus of God Bless America, right out of the closing
scene of the revanchist Hollywood film, The Deer
Hunter - is an unlimited, permanent blank check to
wage la guerre eternal - war without end.

The White House, with none of the fictitious foreign
policy fissures we've heard so much about, and its
diehard loyalists on both sides of the Congressional
aisle, have been evoking the specter of Osama bin
Laden to rally hateful and revengeful public sentiment
and to personify the oft-repeated *evil* that
threatens the United States and, to quote the
president, "all democratic and freedom-loving people"
- no other of whom, it should be noted, seems to be on
the alleged hit list of Mr. bin Laden.

Furthermore, and ominously, Bush threatens not only to
attack - recall this is in his words a state of war -
the actual perpetrators of yesterday's attacks
(whomever they may be), but "their harbors." Not those
who allegedly harbor them, but their harbors.

To be consistent, which is to say honest, Bush, as his
legion of intelligence operatives could readily tell
him, would have to identify who has and still is
supporting the villain of this dangerous melodrama,
Osama bin Laden.

Bin Laden worked hand in glove with the US Central
Intelligence Agency since the early 1980s in
establishing his Maktab al-Khidamar network, which
raised money and recruited jehadis - the so-called
Afghan Arabs, estimated to be some 10,000 strong - to
overthrow the secular Democratic Republic of
Afghanistan.

He was a joint asset of the CIA and Pakistan's
Inter-Service Intelligence, which the Afghan Northern
Opposition, Russia and India insist still supports and
controls him and his current Al-Qaida operation. The
latter is supported by Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the
United Arab Emirates...all three loyal US and British
clients regimes and recipients of Anglo-American
military protection and largesse. So if Bush is
looking for harbors to bomb, he knows where they are
located.

He also knows where they are not.

And where and who they are not are the likely targets:
Iraq, Syria, Libya and Iran.

All four are not only not linked to bin Laden in any
conceivable manner, but instead are vocal opponents of
him and his activities; are in fact potential victims
of the same.

An audio voice-over somehow got on an American
television network yesterday that said: Bin Laden, who
has assisted forces in Somalia, Bosnia, Chechnya and
Koso

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: STRATFOR Real-Time Analysis: The Israeli Dimension


-Caveat Lector-

Strange when I saw the symol of capitalism being destroyed by Shinto
trained Kamakaze pilots - I thouoght the same thing - who
profitsalways ask, cui bono.

Not we can no longer afford this albatross on our backs.maybe some
were meant to bear the cross but who the hell wants that albatross -
feed them to the hungry lions.

Saba

Cui Bono - billions of dollars a year to this little back woods piece of
crap - that was to be home for christians, jews and arabs and now
belongs to Zionist butchers?

Toss them to the lions - we paid to great a price for them yesterday
when maybe 20,000 people most of who could not afford swimming pools,
were slaughtered.

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==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: STRATFOR: Real-Time Analysis - Economics of the Attacks


-Caveat Lector-

Well not is the time to cut off the billions in aid to the Israelis and
pump it into New York.

Israelis have billions of dollars in diamonds and swimming pools but
their suicide bombers seem to be let us say - the iniquities of the
Israelis have been visited upon the innocent Americans ...but then
we must remember too Madeline Albright and Clinton in the Balkans how
she repaid Serbia for saving her worthless hide hiding her from
Nazis.

USA can no longer afford this albatross on our back for the USA could
have been friends with all the Arab Nations, if the right thing had been
done.

Happy would Herzi be to see the childrens heads dashed against the
rocks.

Zionism has virtually destroyed this country.

Saba

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credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Why ?


-Caveat Lector-

They would do well to Remember the USS Liberty - for the Egyptians were
to be blamed for that one.

Saba

Toss in Waco and Ruby Ridge and do not forget the man and his dog in
Calfornia burned alive - and this Sheriff when asked how he felt,
expecting him to say he was sorry - the old bastard said it all went as
planned.

But then what would you expect from a city that now has a new
pornography column for Larry Flynt wants to build more gambling casinos?

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Fwd: STRATFOR Real-Time Analysis: The Israeli Dimension






___


S T R A T F O R

THE GLOBAL INTELLIGENCE COMPANY

http://www.stratfor.com
___

  11 September 2001

The Israeli Dimension

1800 GMT, 010911

By George Friedman

The big winner today, intended or not, is the state of Israel.

Israel has been under siege by suicide bombers for more than a
year. It has responded by waging a systematic war against
Palestinian command structures. The international community,
particularly the United States, has pressured Israel heavily to
stop its operations. The argument has been made that the threat
of suicide bombings, though real, does not itself constitute a
genuine threat to Israeli national security and should not
trigger the kind of response Israel is making.

Today's events change all of this.

First, the United States no longer can argue that Israel should
endure the bombings. Moving forward, the domestic American
political mood simply won't tolerate such a stance.

Second, Israel now becomes, once again, an indispensable ally to
the United States. The United States is obviously going to launch
a massive covert and overt war against the international radical
Islamic movement that is assumed to be behind this attack. Not
only does this align U.S. and Israeli interests but it also makes
the United States dependent on the Israelis -- whose intelligence
capabilities in this area as well as covert operational
capabilities are clearly going to be needed.

There is no question, therefore, that the Israeli leadership is
feeling relief. Given that pressures for Israel to restrain
operations against the Palestinian Authority and other
Palestinian groups will decline dramatically, it might be
expected that Yasser Arafat, anticipating this evolution, will
rapidly change his position on suicide bombings and become more
accommodating to Israel. In effect, today's events have wrecked
Arafat's nearly successful drive to split the United States from
Israel.

Given that the bombers are not fools, they undoubtedly understood
that this would be a consequence. Their reasoning appears to be
that of Lenin: "Better fewer, but better." In other words, they
see Arafat and many others in the Arab world as weak and
indecisive. They are prepared to split the Arab world between two
camps in which they -- though smaller and weaker -- hold the
imagination of the Islamic masses as well as control the tempo of
events.

The greatest question right now is this: Which Islamic state was
involved in the attack? We suspect that there was such
involvement. The sophistication required means of communication
and transport available only to states. Afghanistan does not have
the international facilities needed. We assume that Sudanese and
Iraqi diplomatic communications and transport are both too
closely monitored to be useful. If that is true, what other
nation provided support facilities for this operation? Answering
that question speaks to the future of the region.

George Friedman is the founder and chairman of STRATFOR, the
global intelligence company.

_

Austin Office
700 Lavaca, Suite 405
Austin, TX 78701
Phone: 512-744-4300
http://www.stratfor.com/media

Understand the globe, with intelligence.

Copyright 2001, Strategic Forecasting, LLC

[CTRL] Fwd: STRATFOR: Real-Time Analysis - Economics of the Attacks






___


S T R A T F O R

THE GLOBAL INTELLIGENCE COMPANY

http://www.stratfor.com
___

  11 September 2001

Explosions Cripple American Economy

1940 GMT, 010911

The attacks in New York City and Washington, D.C., targeted
obvious symbols of American prestige and power: the World Trade
Center and the Pentagon. The attackers achieved a crippling blow
against America's economic infrastructure as well.

New York City is one of the richest cities on the globe,
independently raking in more annually than all but the world's
most advanced states. In 1998, the city's budget exceeded that of
some major countries, including Russia.

But New York is more than just a wealthy city of 8 million
people. It is the financial capital of the world's largest
economy. As the significance of what happened in New York sank in
across the country, America's smaller exchanges closed down one
by one. But it is the New York Stock Exchange that moves global
financial events.

Minutes after the attacks, authorities shut down the entire
island of Manhattan, virtually sealing it off from the rest of
the world. The NYSE, located a mere half mile from the collapsed
World Trade Center, has suspended operations until further
notice. That action alone set off secondary tremors in stock
exchanges the world over. By 11 a.m. CST, all active, major
global exchanges were registering sharp losses.

Even with the ongoing global slowdown, America's market
capitalization is larger than its massive $10 trillion GDP and
more than all other financial centers combined. A fair portion of
the value of that capitalization is sure to evaporate over the
next few days.

The seemingly invincible dollar has lost its footing as well.
After regularly gaining against major currencies for the past few
years, the dollar dropped 1.8 percent against the euro and 1.5
percent against the yen. Since most of the world's $1.1 trillion
in daily foreign exchange trades take place in New York - and
those markets are closed - this drop is a mere glimpse of what is
to come.

Foreign financial markets are already trembling. The Paris
exchange immediately plummeted 7.4 percent, the London exchange
5.7 percent and the Frankfurt exchange 7 percent. Oil traders are
betting that the United States will seek retribution against a
Middle Eastern target; that has pushed crude oil prices up to a
nine-month high.

The infrastructure that supports high-powered business is also
either crippled or locked down. Officials at the Sears Tower in
Chicago, keenly aware the tower is the country's tallest
building, have ordered an evacuation. And the offices in the 110-
story World Trade Center were the backbone of many financial
powerhouses such as Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, China
International Trust, Yamatane Securities America and Farmers
Union Control Exchange. New York City plays host to more
multinational corporation headquarters than any other city in the
world.

As the financial disaster ripples outward, the insurance industry
will be in for a very rough time. For instance, Westfield America
Inc. signed a 99-year, $3.2 billion lease on the now nonexistent
World Trade Center Building only last month. This is merely one
example of the size of the insurance claims that will be filed in
coming weeks. Staggering claims could be filed by the companies
that were tenants of the World Trade Center. Meanwhile, liability
insurance for canceled airline flights will be paid out, and life
insurance policies for the uncounted dead also must be paid.

The direct impact on American companies cannot be estimated until
the exchanges reopen, but European insurers are already rattled.
An index that follows large European insurance companies fell
more than 10 percent within an hour of the World Trade Center
collapse. The carnage to come in American markets will be
harrowing.

Beyond New York, the Federal Aviation Administration has shut
down the country's entire commercial air network, canceling all
civilian flights. With an average daily capacity of 55,000
flights, the daily loss to the industry ranks in the hundreds of
millions.

Industry confidence is sure to plummet to historic lows.
Preliminary reports indicated that U.S. military fighters shot
down another suspected hijacked passenger plan outside of
Pittsburgh. Though the report remains unconfirmed, the chance --
however remote -- of the government shooting down civilian
passengers would certainly put a damper on an airline industry
only recently recovered from a wave of mergers and price wars.

Related industries, such as tourism and shipping, will suffer
equally. Again, European markets are leading the fall. British
Airways and Hilton Group both shed more than one-fifth of their
stock value within hours of the attacks.

Life will not

[CTRL] Why ?

2001-09-12 Thread Euphorian


-Caveat Lector-

From
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,551036,00.html

}}}>Begin
They can't see why they are hated
Americans cannot ignore what their government does abroad
Special report: Terrorism in the US
Seumas Milne
Thursday September 13, 2001
The Guardian
Nearly two days after the horrific suicide attacks on civilian workers in New
York and Washington, it has become painfully clear that most Americans
simply don't get it. From the president to passersby on the streets, the
message seems to be the same: this is an inexplicable assault on freedom
and democracy, which must be answered with overwhelming force - just as
soon as someone can construct a credible account of who was actually
responsible.
Shock, rage and grief there has been aplenty. But any glimmer of recognition
of why people might have been driven to carry out such atrocities, sacrificing
their own lives in the process - or why the United States is hated with such
bitterness, not only in Arab and Muslim countries, but across the developing
world - seems almost entirely absent. Perhaps it is too much to hope that,
as rescue workers struggle to pull firefighters from the rubble, any but a
small minority might make the connection between what has been visited
upon them and what their government has visited upon large parts of the
world.
But make that connection they must, if such tragedies are not to be repeated, 
potentially with even more devastating consequences. US political leaders are doing 
their people no favours by reinforcing popular ignorance wi
th self-referential rhetoric. And the echoing chorus of Tony Blair, whose 
determination to bind Britain ever closer to US foreign policy ratchets up the threat 
to our own cities, will only fuel anti-western sentiment. So
will calls for the defence of "civilisation", with its overtones of Samuel 
Huntington's poisonous theories of post-cold war confrontation between the west and 
Islam, heightening perceptions of racism and hypocrisy.
As Mahatma Gandhi famously remarked when asked his opinion of western civilisation, it 
would be a good idea. Since George Bush's father inaugurated his new world order a 
decade ago, the US, supported by its British ally,
bestrides the world like a colossus. Unconstrained by any superpower rival or system 
of global governance, the US giant has rewritten the global financial and trading 
system in its own interest; ripped up a string of trea
ties it finds inconvenient; sent troops to every corner of the globe; bombed 
Afghanistan, Sudan, Yugoslavia and Iraq without troubling the United Nations; 
maintained a string of murderous embargos against recalcitrant reg
imes; and recklessly thrown its weight behind Israel's 34-year illegal military 
occupation of the West Bank and Gaza as the Palestinian intifada rages.
If, as yesterday's Wall Street Journal insisted, the east coast carnage was the fruit 
of the Clinton administration's Munich-like appeasement of the Palestinians, the mind 
boggles as to what US Republicans imagine to be a
 Churchillian response.
It is this record of unabashed national egotism and arrogance that drives 
anti-Americanism among swaths of the world's population, for whom there is little 
democracy in the current distribution of global wealth and power.
 If it turns out that Tuesday's attacks were the work of Osama bin Laden's supporters, 
the sense that the Americans are once again reaping a dragons' teeth harvest they 
themselves sowed will be overwhelming.
It was the Americans, after all, who poured resources into the 1980s war against the 
Soviet-backed regime in Kabul, at a time when girls could go to school and women to 
work. Bin Laden and his mojahedin were armed and tra
ined by the CIA and MI6, as Afghanistan was turned into a wasteland and its communist 
leader Najibullah left hanging from a Kabul lamp post with his genitals stuffed in his 
mouth.
But by then Bin Laden had turned against his American sponsors, while US-sponsored 
Pakistani intelligence had spawned the grotesque Taliban now protecting him. To punish 
its wayward Afghan offspring, the US subsequently f
orced through a sanctions regime which has helped push 4m to the brink of starvation, 
according to the latest UN figures, while Afghan refugees fan out across the world.
All this must doubtless seem remote to Americans desperately searching the debris of 
what is expected to be the largest-ever massacre on US soil - as must the killings of 
yet more Palestinians in the West Bank yesterday,
or even the 2m estimated to have died in Congo's wars since the overthrow of
the US-backed Mobutu regime. "What could some political thing have to do
with blowing up office buildings during working hours?" one bewildered New
Yorker asked yesterday.
Already, the Bush administration is assembling an international coalition for
an Israeli-style war against terrorism, as if such counter-productive acts of
outrage had an existence separate from the social conditions ou

[CTRL] Fwd: correction to Early Thoughts and info about 9-11 Day






the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania was flight #93 not #11.  Im not sure
if the congressmen were singing "God bless American" I just remember them
singing patriotic music.

William Wallace

[CTRL] SF Mayor got low-key early warning about air travel

2001-09-12 Thread Steve


-Caveat Lector-

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/09/12/MN229389.DTL

Willie Brown got low-key early warning about air travel

Phillip Matier, Andrew Ross
Wednesday, September 12, 2001

For Mayor Willie Brown, the first signs that something was amiss came late Monday when 
he got
a call from what he described as his airport security - - a full eight hours before 
yesterday's string
of terrorist attacks -- advising him that Americans should be cautious about their air 
travel.

The mayor, who was booked to fly to New York yesterday morning from San Francisco
International Airport, said the call "didn't come in any alarming fashion, which is 
why I'm hesitant
to make an alarming statement."

In fact, at the time, he didn't pay it much mind.

"It was not an abnormal call. I'm always concerned if my flight is going to be on 
time, and they
always alert me when I ought to be careful."

Exactly where the call came from is a bit of a mystery. The mayor would say only that 
it came
from "my security people at the airport."

Mike McCarron, assistant deputy director at SFO, said the Federal Aviation 
Administration
"routinely" issues security notices about possible threats. He said two or three such 
notices have
been received in the past couple of
months,

but none in recent days.

Whatever the case, Brown didn't think about it again until he was up, dressed
and waiting for his ride to the airport for an 8 a.m. flight to New York, where
he was to attend a state retirement board meeting. That was when he turned
on the TV, and like millions of other Americans, saw the twin towers of the
World Trade Center crumble and the Pentagon go up in smoke.

Before the mayor was even out the door, District Attorney Terence Hallinan - -
 the man Brown said just last week should be recalled -- was checking in and
offering help.

What followed was a conversation made up of equal parts gravity and
formality.

"You know, you're the first call I've gotten on this," Brown said to Hallinan, as
they were signing off.

With that, the mayor hung up and headed for City Hall. Along the way, he
made the call to close all city buildings for the day and city schools as well.

He also talked with representatives of the Bank of America building and the
Transamerica Pyramid, who agreed that because the structures were such
high- profile symbols they too should be closed for the day.

Once Brown arrived at City Hall, calls were made in quick order to Municipal
Railway director Michael Burns: "I want a complete backup in case anything
happens to the subway tunnels," Brown said.

The Coast Guard: "To make sure the bridges were being protected."

And to the health, police and fire departments to make sure they were staffed
for the emergency.

The last call went to Tom Ammiano, the mayor's longtime political nemesis
and president of the Board of Supervisors.

"We may have to declare a state of emergency, although it's not something I
want to do at this point because it kicks in all sorts of things -- but we may
have to be ready," the mayor said.

Ammiano apparently agreed, because an hour or so later -- when the two sat
next to each other at a city department heads meeting at the command
center -- the call was made for only a "limited" state of emergency. One that
would allow the courts, city offices and schools to close, but still keep the city
pretty much in working order.

"What I want," the mayor said, "is for things to be to run as normally as
possible, but sagely."

And for the most part they did. As for what comes next?

"With any luck, we'll be back to normal by tomorrow -- but with a heightened
sense of awareness," Brown said as he sipped coffee with reporters at
Citizen Cake on Grove Street.

But as for long-term safety?

"We can only do what we can," the mayor said, adding, "Hell, if they can't
protect the Pentagon from attack, what can they protect?"

BART BLOCKS: Don't go looking for a rest room on BART -- they're all
locked.

According to BART information officer Ron Rodriguez, a memorandum went
out yesterday ordering all station rest rooms to be locked until further notice.
They've also put out the word to watch for suspicious packages.

THE OTHER BROWN: Over in Oakland, Mayor Jerry Brown was trying his
best to keep things normal as well.

"We're carrying on," Brown said. "I think the most important thing is for
people to stay calm and understand that the power of terrorism is
psychological.

"The goal is to sow disunity and to undermine our faith in the leadership of
the country."

A few blocks away, Democratic pollster Paul Maslin sat in his office high-
rise and wondered about the long-term effect of the attacks.

"It's like one part Pearl Harbor, one part Northern Ireland and one part I don't
know what," was how Maslin summed it up.

Maslin -- who does polling for Gov. Gray Davis, among others -- said the
strangest call he got yesterday was from one of the biggest Democratic
consultants in Washi

[CTRL] Fwd: Early Thoughts and info about 9-11 Day








Early Thoughts and info about 9-11 Day

There was heavy military movements and activations before the 11th:
I happened to be driving through 4 western and central States on Sept. 7-10.
I noticed heavy lift transport equipment empty heading west on I-40.  The
transport assets were consistent with transport of our heavy military assets
such as:  battle tanks, self propelled artillery, or armored personnel
carriers. This would indicate either a pickup  or loading for possible water
shipment in the west of the country or maybe a return from a delivery to the
eastern US.  Even back country roads had considerable military vehicle
movements!  This may indicate generalized mobilization.  I have friends who
reported call-ups and mobilizations of guard and reserve units well before
the terrorist strikes. I have gotten various similar reports from others.


Consistent with the above movements, there is strong evidence  the USA was
planning to go to war in Columbia and South America over control of the drug
money and resources hegemony. For information on this you can start at
www.narconews.com and www.copvcia.com.  I think this was supposed to happen
around the 15th of  September which is on the verge of spring in the
Southern hemisphere. This would present a strategic opportunity to  the
European part of the New World Order that views S. America as shared turf
and has been looking for an opportunity to empower Europe at the expense of
N. America. Of course in general, the rest of the world hates us anyway.

Now for a quick and dirty analysis, what was needed to pull off the attacks


A lot of money.

Brilliance.

Poor or compromised ground security.

16-24 mind control victims:
 - Either conventional cultural religious or (unlikely) patriotic mind
control OR
- Sophisticated trauma based multi personality type mind control OR
- a unknown mind control technique.

First level control element of 1-6 people  of appropriate types depending on
the mind control technique being employed.

An example  for the fist case:  a religious or political extremist who is
his own fool who is able to pull the strings of the of one or more cells of
4-6 victims, or more likely, as a cut out go between to the unseen party(s)
masterminding.

In all cases the control elements serve  spiritual power of a high order.

In my opinion contrary to some theories out about additional explosives in
the WTC building.  This is all you really need. That opinion is of course
subject to change if more reliable evidence points to additional activity.

Air strikes alone don't take the building down.  The structures were
designed to take a good sized aircraft hit.  What the structures were not
designed to survive is the intense heat  for a extended period that the tens
of thousands of gallons of jet fuel burning at the impact levels would
generate.   At the point of the fires the heat probably quickly reached
1300-1500 degrees F.  The structural steel on the periphery and central core
become considerably weaker above 900 degrees F.  The oxygen ingresses at the
periphery where the impact holes and heat-destroyed and intentionally broken
windows tend to concentrate the combustion process at those points where
most of the structural steel is. Once the steel passes the weakening
temperature the mass of the upper structure can no longer be supported by
the weakened steel that is below.  A plastic sideways circumferential
deformation quickly becomes a total structural failure at the level of the
fires.  The flooring is of the free standing reinforced concrete type. Once
the top portions start moving down the following happens: the lower floors
and support structure below the fire, although still structurally sound, are
now confronted by huge loadings from the inertia of the gigantic falling
mass of the upper structure. This EASILY fractures all the supporting steel
of the periphery and central core of the next floor down. The sequential
breaks floor by floor tend to stabilize the collapse in a straight down
perfect symmetrical fashion.  The structure itself  causes  a straight down
collapse like so many neat pancakes stacking higher and higher as they fall.

Look at the particulars of each tower failure.  The tower that took the
larger 767 hit was hit higher up the tower then the second.  Also the hit
was more central and away from the sides than the second hit.  Because the
resulting fire was higher up there was less mass to support.  Because the
corner wasn't hit directly the structure was less weakened by the initial
impact.  So the failure point of the fire would take more time to fail
because there was less mass to support and the structural support  was less
weakened. Also because the hit didn't compromise the 4 strongest corner
support points the collapse was a perfect downward collapse.

The second hit by the 757, although a smaller destructive payload, was
delivered with a more effective technique. The near corner impact initially
weakened  the cor

[CTRL] Emergency Numbers for Martin and Others - II

2001-09-12 Thread foxter




More 
numbers:
 
 
New York City-area Emergency Services and Resources FromThe New York 
Times on the WebWednesday, September 12, 
2001-NYTimes.com has compiled the 
following list of emergency resources andcontact information for the New 
York City area. Closings and somecontact numbers may be subject to change. 
For news and informationthroughout the day, visit:http://www.nytimes.comBLOOD DONATIONSManhattan- New York Blood Center310 East 
67th Street (between First and Second Aves.)150 Amsterdam Avenue (66-67th 
Streets)- St. Clare's Hospital & Health Center426 W. 52nd 
St.212-586-1500- St. Vincent's Hospital & Medical Center7th 
Ave. at 11th St.212-604-7000Brooklyn- New York Blood 
Center120 Lawrence St. near MetroTech212-586-1500- St. Mary's 
Hospital170 Buffalo Ave.718-221-3000Queens- Flushing: 
St. Joseph's Hospital15840 79th Ave.718-558-6200- Jamaica: St. 
Vincent's Medical Center of Richmond355 Bard 
Ave.718-876-1234Staten Island- Mary Immaculate 
Hospital15211 89th Ave.718-558-2000Westchester- 
Elmsford525 Executive BoulevardNew Jersey- New 
Brunswick167 New StreetFor more details on available donor 
locations, call 1-800-448-3543(GIVE-LIFE), 1-800-933-2566 or 
visit:http://www.nybloodcenter.org-HOTLINESMain New York City Numbers:- NYC 
Emergency Information: 212-560-2730- NYPD Emergency Information: 
212-741-4626 or 866-856-4167Airlines:- American Airlines: 
1-800-245-0999American Airlines Statementhttp://www.aa.com/- United 
Airlines: 1-800-932-8555United Airlines Statementhttp://www.ual.com/United 
also has established its international toll-free numbers forfriends or 
family members who want more information. Those numbers are:The Netherlands: 
020504051Germany: 06966985407Italy: 024829813Belgium: 
027133646France: 0169199659Victim Information:- Red Cross WTC 
Victim Information: 212-604-7285- WTC: AON Employees: 203-863-6380- WTC: 
Morgan Stanley Employees: 888-883-4391- WTC: Carr Future: 800-755-7620- 
WTC: Cantor Fitzgerald: 866-326-3188- WTC: Pitney Bowes: 800-932-3631- 
Pentagon Employees: 1-877-663-6772- Fire Department and EMT Employees: 
718-999-2541- Police Department Employees: 718-677-8238New York City 
Hospitals:- St. Vincent's Hospital: 212-604-7285- Bellevue Hospital 
Center: 212-562-4141- Coler Memorial Hospital: 212-848-6300- Goldwater 
Memorial Hospital: 212-318-8000- Gouverneur Hospital D&TC: 
212-238-7000Other City Services:- City Mortuary: 212-562-3051- 
Chief Medical Examiner: 212-447-2030Grief Counseling:- Lincoln 
Medical and Mental Health Center: 718-579-5000- Metropolitan Hospital 
Center: 212-423-6262- St. Vincent's Health Crisis Center: 212-604-8220- 
Department of Mental Health Services: 
212-442-5000-TRANSITSubways:Most service has 
resumed with the exception of the 3, C, and the QExpress.City 
Buses:Buses are operating in Manhattan above 14th Street.For 
complete details on bus and subway service, visit the MTA Web site:http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/emergency/emernyct.htmRoads, Bridges and Tunnels:- The Lincoln and Holland 
Tunnels and George Washington Bridge areclosed in both directions.- FDR 
Drive and the West Side Highway are closed from 92nd St. to theBattery.- 
The Triborough, Throgs Neck, Whitestone and 59th Street bridges 
areopen.Trains- Grand Central Station and Penn Station have 
both reopened and LongIsland Railroad, Metro-North and New Jersey Transit 
are all runningwith limited service. PATH Trains are also in 
service.For additional updates and information, visit the following Web 
sites:Long Island Railroad (LIRR)http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/emergency/emerlirr.htmMetro-North Railroadhttp://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/emergency/emermnr.htmNew Jersey Transithttp://www.njtransit.com/ta_advisorynotices.jspFerries- The Staten Island Ferry is running in the 
Staten Island-bounddirection only.- New York Waterway Ferries are 
running outbound only between 38th St.,Weehawken and Hoboken with no 
charge.Airports- All U.S. airports are closed until further 
notice.Airline Information Lines:Relatives of American Airlines 
passengers seeking information aboutrelatives may call 
1-800-245-0999.United Airlines said friends or family members seeking 
information onflights may call 1-800-932-8555. United also plans to post 
anyinformation it has on its Web site:http://www.united.com-CLOSINGS AND SERVICE CHANGESThe following are closed 
or suspended today:- All U.S. Financial Markets- All U.S. Airports- 
Businesses in Manhattan below 14th St.- New York City Public Schools- 
New York City Parochial Schools- Empire State Building- New York City 
State and Federal Courts, including Jury Duty. Forinformation call 
1-800-692-6878 (NY-COURTS)- Metropolitan Museum- New York Public 
Library- Fordham University- St. John's University- Mailbox Pickup 
(Post offices are open)- Street cleaning- Alternate side of the street 
parking rulesThe following are open today:- Newark Public 
Schools- Post Offices- CUNY 
schools-DonationsThe United Way of

[CTRL] Fwd: Try this on for size...

As always, . . .
Fed to me by [EMAIL PROTECTED] Who is?

A very old tactic is to deflect one theory with another, there may always be
any number of "compromised" agents working for double, triple and more
masters, Mossad included, and as to where the "catbird" seat is, Mossad I
doubt.

MHO
Om
K

Title: Try this on for size...

09/11/2001 Conspiracy Theory

The WTC/Pentagon terrorists were clandestinely recruited, financed and trained by Israeli Mossad agents.

The professionalism, scope and complexity of the operation exceeds by an order of magnitude the capabilities of Bin Laden et. al. A success rate of 75%? Remarkable for even the best trained and financed intelligence operatives, but outside the realm of possibility for a group whose previous pinnacle of sophistication was a truck bomb.

The lack of any warning signs to the U.S. and international intelligence community indicates an intimate knowledge of clandestine intelligence operations. The CIA and FBI are watching Bin Laden like a hawk abroad and at home, yet neither we nor the Israeli's nor any other friendly intelligence group have no inkling he was up to this? Right.

Amateurish and obvious clues such as Arabic literature, flight manuals and pictures of Bin Laden left in automobiles strain credulity for such an otherwise professionally planned and executed operation.

Who benefits from the operation. Bin Laden? He's a dead man. The Taliban? They're toast. Ditto Iraq, Iran or Lybia and especially the poor Palestinians.

Israel is the only clear winner in the aftermath of the attack. In the article "Spilled Blood Is Seen as Bond That Draws 2 Nations Closer, "NY Times 09/12/01, when asked what the attack meant for relations between the U.S. and Israel, former Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netenyahu replied "It's very good." Now Israel gets international carte blanche to complete their conquest and consolidation of the West Bank and eliminate their Palestinian problem. U.S. support should increase from the $5 billion/year they're already getting. Plus U.S. troops help them out by doing the dirty work of rooting out all the "terrorist" groups haphazardly aligned against them.

The Coupe de Gras, all the direct participants are dead.

[CTRL] Kamakaze Iranian Pilots Once Planned to blow up White House



Well after reading this I remember it was not Arab or Egyptian or
Iranian or Palestinian Planes who tried to sink the USS Liberty - it was
Israeli planes for which we paid.they could have been forgiven had
it not been for the fact they new it was a US ship, and they napalmed
our men on deck for over 45 minutes - burning them alive and bombing
them - and we give them billions of dollars without which of course,
they would be so much "trailer trasher" as Joshua2 would call them
living off the kindness of others but returning the kindness like
Albright returned the kidness of the Serbs.

So Joshua2 - the symbols of Capitalism, the World Trade Center for
biblical purposes called "the towers" have been destroyed and the voice
of Karl Marx is heard in the land - pass that onto your little Marxist
friends unless they are sitlll spying on Militia for ADL...

Saba

Note:  Iran planed to blow up White House using Kamakaze pilots in
1995..planes in Florida is where these pilots trained who left
little arabic books in car with little red arrows?

I agree with Edward - blow up the whole god damned bunch and let us get
our oil in Alaska going for we are going into a new age and do not need
this Zionist garbage20,000 dead.but who is the enemy?   REMEMBER
THE USS LIBERTY AND THEN DECIDE.

|   Thu 13/09/2001
 
   
 Feature  Search the webBall bearings laid on RDX plastic
explosives in suicide kit
Suicide Terrorism: Emerging Global Patterns
By Rohan Gunaratna
Introduction:
In suicide terrorism, the aim of the psychologically- and physically-war
trained terrorist is to die while destroying the "enemy" target. Suicide
as used in the appellation "suicide terrorism" does not imply suicide as
a psychological or pathological situation or condition. Suicide
terrorism is different from high-risk military operations where death is
not certain and the perpetrator may survive the operation. In the
spectrum of political violence, from the perspective of the perpetrator,
suicide terrorism is the most violent form of expression.
Sri Lankan Context:
Of the contemporary guerrilla and terrorist groups engaged in suicide
operations, the LTTE has conducted the largest number of attacks. The
LTTE has a special organisation called Black Tigers, exclusively for
cadres who volunteer to conduct suicide operations. On Black Tiger day,
Monday July 5, 1999, the LTTE erected a monument to commemorate the
Black Tigers in Puthukuthirippu in the Wanni. The LTTE issued a
statement from its Political Head Quarters in Mallavi, Wanni, that it
had conducted 147 suicide operations since 1987. However, this number
did not include the suicide attacks carried out by the LTTE against
civilians. The LTTE code prevents claiming attacks on non-military
personnel such as Rajiv Gandhi, the former Prime Minister of India,
Ranasinghe Premadasa, the President of Sri Lanka, Ranjan Wijeratne, the
Sri Lankan Minister of State for Defence, and Gamini Dissanayake, Sri
Lankan Presidential candidate of the United National Party. By adopting
such a position, the LTTE seeks to project to the international
community that it is a liberation movement that targets only military
personnel and not a terrorist group.
The LTTE suicide bomber is motivated by his or her politico-social
environment as well as by the indoctrination carried out by the LTTE.
The LTTE leader Velupillai Prabhakaran states: "With perseverance and
sacrifice, Tamil Eelam can be achieved in 100 years. But if we conduct
Black Tiger operations, we can shorten the suffering of the people and
achieve Tamil Eelam in a shorter period of time. The first LTTE suicide
operation was conducted on July 5, 1987, to stall the advance of the Sri
Lankan military to capture Jaffna town. An LTTE driver Wasanthan alias
Captain Millar volunteered to drive a vehicle full of explosives into
the makeshift army camp in Nelliaddy. Although the suicide operation was
not the reason to abort the mission to capture Jaffna, the LTTE
propaganda claimed that Captain Millar's success of killing 40 soldiers
in Nelliaddy frustrated the intentions of the government to recapture
the heartland of the Tamils. The LTTE did not conduct suicide operations
during the IPKF period but initiated a series of suicide attacks with
the political assassination of Ranjan Wijeatne and Rajiv Gandhi in March
and May 1991. These off the battlefield strikes were developed in Eelam
War III, when the LTTE integrated suicide bombers into their land and
sea fighting forces.
As the Sri Lankan case demonstrates, suicide terrorism is driven not
only by religious but ethnic nationalism. In the long term a higher
number of ethnic communities are at risk of experiencing conflicts
driven by ethnic nationalism. By understanding both the contexts and the
vulnerabilities of groups to use suicide terrorism, the threat can be
addressed proactively and comprehensively. The LTTE used suicide bombers
to destroy the Joint Operations Command, the nerve centre of the Sri
Lanka

[CTRL] Fwd: [CIA-DRUGS] FTW Subscriber Bulletin 01-13 - Bin Laden Fading as Prime Suspect, Global Recession Beginning, Questions About Collapse of Towers






Updated 9-12-01
Breaking news - Analysis - Correction

BIN LADEN FADING AS SUSPECTED MASTERMIND

REUTERS, CNN PREDICT GLOBAL RECESSION

Central Banks Dump Massive Amounts of Cash to Stave Off Oil, Gold
Speculation - May Spark Inflation

ASIAN MARKETS TANK

By

Michael C. Ruppert

[(c) Copyright 2001. All Rights reserved. FTW Publications, www.copvcia.com.
May Be Reprinted for Non-Profit Purposes only.]

Full reporting and Analysis will be published in the next issue of From The
Wilderness. Expected mailing date Sept. 18, 2001. Additional reports for
paid subscribers only will be available in a secure area of the web site
beginning on approximately 9-13-01.


FTW - On Sept. 11, 2001 the two most visible symbols of American economic
and military power were simultaneously attacked in a well-planned and well
financed attack that will have enormous and permanent impact on the world
economy and American culture. Just a day after the attacks, which brought
the planet to a halt, both CNN and Reuters - after interviewing many
financial experts - are reporting the likelihood of a worldwide recession.
As major central banks have acted swiftly, with as much as $70 billion in
instant cash infusions to stem immediate spikes in oil and gold prices, the
likelihood that perennial bogeyman Osama Bin Laden was the prime of origin
of the attacks diminishes. In a number of media appearances beginning on the
evening of September 11, former CIA Director James Woolsey has now begun
pointing the finger at "state sponsorship," - the prime suspect being Iraq.

Continuing revelations as to the complexity of the attacks continues to
suggest logistical, intelligence and financial resources beyond Bin Laden's
known abilities. In addition, Bin Laden's lineage, as a protégé of the CIA
from the Afghan conflict of the 1980s, threatens to raise serious questions
which the American government might not want answered. [See other FTW
stories at www.copvcia.com] .

A stunning report from the respected military and intelligence report
Stratfor (www.stratfor.com) has officially raised the question that many who
watched the Trade Center towers collapse vertically, have been asking about
secondary explosions and the likelihood that charges had been physically
placed within the buildings before the attacks. In a bulletin yesterday
Stratfor wrote:

"Mounting an attack of this sort is not simple. In the case of the World
Trade Center, the collapse of the towers indicates massive delayed
explosions. This means either the planes were loaded with explosives or that
massive explosive charges were planted in the buildings to go off later.
This is supposition, but a secondary explosion is a necessary factor for
explaining the collapse."
As reported last week in bulletins for our paid subscribers, the attacks
came at a moment when US and world markets were in dire straits and as two
hidden factors threatened to disclose even greater weaknesses in the US
economy. The first of these factors is a monstrous derivatives investment
bubble -- orchestrated by JPMorganChase -- estimated to be near $30 trillion
(US), on the verge of implosion and a gold price artificially suppressed by
the US Treasury and Goldman Sachs that was scheduled to be publicly aired in
a lawsuit by the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee (GATA) in US District
Court, Boston on October 9th.

These revelations, on the heels of a near 900 point drop in the Dow Jones
Industrial Average in the preceding three weeks, could have tipped the US
economy even without yesterday's attacks.

As reported around the world, especially in London, gold and oil prices
spiked in the first two hours after the attacks before the European markets
closed. The price of London gold rose by 6% in less than two hours.
Yesterday FTW reported that the Comex precious metals exchange had been
destroyed in the attack. That is now uncertain. Three years ago the Comex
moved out of the World Trade Center to a nearby building which has been
reported to be heavily damaged. However, the Commodity Futures Trading
Commission, which polices precious metals trading, had its offices in WTC
Tower 1 and was totally destroyed.

World confidence in the security of US markets and the economy has been
shattered. FTW correspondents in Moscow report a divergence between public
and official government reaction. Three people reported from Moscow
yesterday an immediate move by Russian citizens to sell US dollars - the
most common form of savings in the economically battered country - resulting
in a dramatic plunge in public exchange rates from 29:1 to as low as 15:1
overnight. However a Russian government source told FTW this morning that
rates on MICEX (The Moscow International Currency Exchange) have remained
stable. In early trading the Russian stock exchange lost 5% of its value.

Asian markets crumbled overnight.

As reported by MoneyNet, these are the results of post bombing trading on
the Asian markets:

Australia  -4%
Japan -6.63% (the low

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Terrorism on Trial (Daniel Pipes and Steven Emerson) July, 2001

2001-09-12 Thread foxter




Somebody on tv said 
they had gone down the stairs from the I think 50th floor to I think the 30th 
and the speakers came on and said they should go back to their offices; he said 
they looked at each other, said, "naaa", kept going to the 
ground and lived.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  RevCOAL 

  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 8:58 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Terrorism on 
  Trial (Daniel Pipes and Steven Emerson) July, 2001
  -Caveat Lector-On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Amelia 
  wrote:>If you hear any more about the person telling people to stay 
  calm>and stay in the building, please post it.Nope, nothing 
  more today, but then there weren't many survivors hangingaround to be 
  interviewed...>Could she have been>well-intended and 
  just somebody who thought she would avert panic>by doing this?  Or 
  do you think something far more sinister?While the female survivor 
  just reported that 'someone told us to stopleaving and herded us into this 
  room on the 12th floor where a TV wasplaying...', the construction worker 
  specifically stated 'some guy toldus to stay put and not 
  evacuate'...The contruction worker didn't mention any room with a TV, 
  I'm not sure ifhe and the woman survivor were even in the same building or 
  each inseparate towers...If it was just one incident, one could 
  perhaps brush it off as misguidedadvice from a well-meaning anonymous 
  individual...but the fact that 2people in 2 separate incidents report an 
  attempt to keep them insideinstead of evacuating, and the possibility that 
  it was 2 separate peopledoing this, I think raises questions about what 
  was going on...Especially when one muses on why there just happened to 
  be what seemed tobe a collection area for evacuees on the 12th floor with 
  a TV setup...according to this woman, there was nothing else in the room 
  exceptthe TV and people milling about, wondering what to 
  do...According to this woman, they were specifically stopped IN THE 
  STAIRWELLby this person, who seemed to be stationed deliberately at the 
  12th floorlevel to divert evacuees to this mysterious empty room with the 
  TV.But if that person was still there when the woman and her 
  friends decidedto book out again, at least he or she did not stop them a 
  2nd time...But I do have to wonder how many other people were still 
  milling around,watching that TV on the 12th floor, when the building 
  collapsed...>Also, I have been so proud of the behavior of the 
  New Yorkers!New Yorkers, no less!  Behaving in a very civilized 
  manner and showing>compassion and helping each other.You 
  obviously don't know the Big Apple and its residents well...thishappens 
  all the time, albeit on a much smaller scale.  New Yorkers alwayspull 
  together in a crisis...  :-)>I thought they did not 
  care,>etc. and even prided themselves on their bad 
  attitude.Ah!  You see, they really care too much, and hide their 
  collectivemarshmallow interior with a hard, tough 
  veneer...>Even when>they were running as the buildings 
  collapsed and all of the debris>was coming right up the street after 
  them, there was no pushing, no>shoving and people actually picked up 
  anybody who fell.Yep...that's Big Applites fer ya!Although 
  late this afternoon they showed an evacuation from one of thebuildings 
  near the WTC which is about to collapse...there was a cameracrew in the 
  lobby, along with a whole bunch of rescue personnel, when thebuilding 
  started shaking and they thought it was about to fall...The cameraman 
  kept filming as they all hightailed it out there...as heran thru the lobby 
  doors with dozens of rescue personnel running in frontand past him (and 
  those outside starting to run as people shout "Get outof the area, it's 
  about to fall!"), suddenly a woman pushes past -- shehadn't been visible 
  before that.  I suspect that she was part of thecamera crew, as she 
  was wearing clean crisp designer jeans and a niceclean, white shirt...in 
  other words, it didn't look like she had beentaking an active part in the 
  rescue operation.  Plus she had a designerknapsack on her 
  back...Well, she was the only womanand everyone had to squeeze 
  thru a narrowarea because of the constrictions of debris, abandoned cars, 
  etc.  Someof the guys just milled, wondering whether they should 
  leave or not.Some others were weighed down with rescue equipment.  In 
  other words,most couldn't move very fastAnd suddenly you see 
  this babe just elbowing her way thru the crowd...itwas obvious that she 
  was very afraid and wanted to put as much spacebetween herself and the 
  dangerous building as possible, and wasn't goingto let a little thing like 
  manners get in the way...   :-)That's Big Applites fer ya, 
  too!  ;-)>One man passing out sneakers from his store to 
  those women with no>shoes!  What is the world coming to?  New 
  Yorkers are going to lose>t

[CTRL] Chomsky And Cockburn & St.Clair On Yesterday's Events And The Future




What is Chomsky talking about tens of thousands 
killed in the Sudan by Clinton's bombing the drug/bio factory?  Amnesty 
International lists the count as 1 and news reports 11.  Is this to 
minimize our loss and trivialize it?
~Amelia~
- Original Message - 
From: William Shannon 

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 8:59 PM
Subject: [CTRL] Chomsky And Cockburn & St.Clair On Yesterday's 
Events And The Future
http://www.counterpunch.org/ 
September 12, 2001 A Quick Reaction By Noam 
Chomsky The September 11 attacks were major atrocities. In terms of 
number of victims they do not reach the level of many others, for example, 
Clinton's bombing of the Sudan with no credible pretext, destroying half its 
pharmaceutical supplies and probably killing tens of thousands of people (no 
one knows, because the US blocked an inquiry at the UN and no one cares to 
pursue it). Not to speak of much worse cases, which easily come to mind. But 
that this was a horrendous crime is not in doubt.

[CTRL] Emergency Numbers for Martin and Others

2001-09-12 Thread foxter




 
 
FEMA Help Line1-800-462-9029  
Missing Family and Friends Hotline 1-866-856-4167 
1-212-741-4626 1-212-560-2730 
 
American Airlines Hotline 1-800-245-0999 
 
United Airlines Hotline 1-800-932-8555 
 
Office of Victims of Crime U.S. Dept. of 
Justice 1-800-331-0075  
NYC Firefighter's Hotline 1-718-999-2541 
 
FBI Crime Reporting Web Site  
Morgan Stanley 1-866-761-8365 
 
Blue Cross/Blue Shield 1-866-761-8365 
 
US State Department International Travel Advisory Hotline 1-202-647-5335  
Donating the Services of Medical Personnel Registered Nurses 
and Emergency Medical Services 1-800-628-0193 
 
Doctors 1-518-431-7600

[CTRL] CIA - Business as Usual

2001-09-12 Thread Steve


-Caveat Lector-

Prediction: US will attack and eventually occupy  Afganistan. The CIA will
take over the opium fields just as they did in Laos and Cambodia, importing
even more drugs into the US and becoming even more powerful and
independent of Congressional oversight.

This will also result in a great increase in oil prices which will benefit Bush
and his friends in the oil business. Even the elder Bush has been staying at
the White House lately to help out his son with the family's business interests.

Steve

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Woe to Ariel?

2001-09-12 Thread The Public Image

-Caveat Lector-

Dear Saba:

you can barely spell Zionist, so it's a little
retarded for you to be casting such a wide net. funny
how in times like this, people's true colors really
show. for instance, now we see that not only is mental
patient Jones here a crazy old bitch who should've
been sent to the glue factory a long time ago, but
he/she/it's also a delusional, paranoid bigot.
but then, you knew that already.

The Public Image

ps. i know you can't see this Colleen, but i have a
middle finger sticking straight up just for you. isn't
that touching?

--- Saba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Dear Public Image:
>
> You Zionist pig flag is showing.
>
> Saba

__
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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Om

[CTRL] World Trade Center info (fwd)

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:27:48 -0500
From: Johnny Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

 Begin Forwarded Message 

Following is a message which my one of my best friends passed along with
permission to distribute to those who might be interested. It fills in
the details that I missed in my original conversation with him and
attempted to relate to you.

Tom has given me permission to distribute the message - please feel free
to post it if you deem it appropriate.

Sincerely,

Art Russell, Major, US Army (Retired)

Message Follows:

Today was a tragedy for all of America and to my family, a very personal
one. Lynn and my Niece Liz's husband, Jeremy Glick was on United flight
93 this morning. When the Hijackers took control of flight 93. Jeremy
called my niece who in turn conferenced him to 911. Jeremy relayed to
the police what was happening as the hijacking unfolded. As our niece
Liz listened, Jeremy told the police there were three Arab terrorists
with knives and a large red box that they claimed contained a bomb.
Jeremy tracked the second by second details and relayed them to the
police by phone. After several minutes of describing the scene, Jeremy
and several other passengers decided there was nothing to lose by
rushing the hijackers. Although United Flight 93 crashed outside of
Pittsburgh, with the loss of all souls. Jeremy and the other patriotic
heroes saved the lives of many people on the ground that would have died
if the Arab terrorists had been able to complete their heinous mission.

Please offer your prayers for all of those who perished or were injured
in this tragic of all days and to our niece Liz Glick and her
2-month-old child, Emerson, who are left without their loving Husband
and Father.

May we remember Jeremy and the other brave souls as heroes, soldiers and
Americans' on United flight 93 whom so gallantry gave their lives to
save many others.

Lynn, our four adult children and I are headed to New York to be with
our family during this time of great sadness

All of my best,

Tom

We find heroism in many places.

[CTRL] Controllers' tale of Flight 11


-Caveat Lector-

Controllers' tale of Flight 11

USA > Justice
from the September 13, 2001 edition

Controllers' tale of Flight 11

By Mark Clayton | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

An American Airlines pilot stayed at the helm of hijacked Flight 11
much of the way from Boston to New York, sending surreptitious
radio transmissions to authorities on the ground as he flew.
Because the pilot's voice was seldom heard in these covert
transmissions, it was not clear to the listening air-traffic
controllers which of the two pilots was flying the Boeing 767. What
is clear is that the pilot was secretly trying to convey to
authorities the flight's desperate situation, according to
controllers familiar with the tense minutes after Flight 11 was
hijacked.
Websites

The pilot was apparently triggering a "push-to-talk button" on the
aircraft's yoke, or "wheel" - a feature that enables pilots to have
their hands on the controls while communicating, the controllers
say. By doing so, the pilot gave controllers a way to hear much of
what was said and other noises in the cockpit. His ability to do so
also indicates that he was in the driver's seat much of the way to
the plane's fiery rendezvous with the World Trade Center.

"The button was being pushed intermittently most of the way to New
York," a controller told the Monitor. "He wanted us to know
something was wrong. When he pushed the button and the terrorist
spoke, we knew. There was this voice that was theatening the pilot,
and it was clearly threatening."

During these transmissions, the pilot's voice and the heavily
accented voice of a hijacker were clearly audible. At other times,
the transmission was clear, but exactly what was happening in the
cockpit was confused.

All of it was recorded by a Federal Aviation Administration
traffic-control center. Those tapes are now presumed to be in the
hands of federal law-enforcement officials, who arrived at the
flight-contol facility minutes after Flight 11 crashed into the
World Trade Center. The tapes presumably could provide clues about
the hijackers - and may become even more important if the plane's
"black boxes" are damaged or never found.

Even before those messages were received, though, and even before
Flight 11 veered sharply toward New York City from its scheduled
path, air-traffic controllers knew something was wrong. They just
didn't know how wrong.

Flight 11 departed Boston's Logan International Airport about 7:59
a.m. Tuesday, destined for Los Angeles. A course for the aircraft
had been charted and instructions given to its pilots, air-traffic
controllers say.

The flight's handler was sitting in a windowless concrete bunker in
Nashua, N.H., - one of 20 FAA centers that handle long-distance
traffic once aircraft have left airport airspace, the controllers
say. As he gave instructions to several aircraft, the controller
was watching the 27-inch, high-resolution Sony TV consoles in the
recently updated FAA facility. The screen displayed Flight 11's key
information, including its altitude, direction, and identifying
number. The controller had just given the plane, now about 15 to 20
minutes due west of Logan and cruising above western Massachusetts,
permission to climb from 29,000 feet to 31,000 feet.

But nothing happened.

"He was cleared to continue his climb and he did not," a controller
says. "He was given permission to turn to go around [other
airplane] traffic at 29,000 [feet]. So he [the controller handling
the plane] issued a further climb, and [the plane] does not
respond. That was the first indication we had of a problem."

The controller handling the plane then repeatedly tried to contact
Flight 11 on the regular frequency, according to two other
controllers. Getting no response, the controller went to an
emergency frequency.


'American 11, how do you read?'

"They were trying to raise the aircraft, trying to raise the
aircraft, and they can't," says a colleague. "So they call them on
the 121.5 emergency frequency."

"American 11, this is Boston Center, how do you read?" was repeated
several times with no response, a controller says. But because
aircraft sometimes lose radio contact with their controllers, he
was not unduly concerned.

Just then, however, controllers noticed something more worrisome.

Flight 11's transponder had stopped working. It was no longer
sending a radar pulse. The plane's altitude also became a matter of
guesswork for controllers, though the Boeing 767 was still visible
on radar. Still, the controllers hoped that the plane simply had an
electrical problem.

"Then the plane turned [south toward New York], and then they heard
the transmission with the terrorist in the background," the
controller says. "The voice upset him [the controller] because he
knew right then that he was working a hijack. Several other people
heard the voice, and they could tell by the sound of it,
intuitively, that this was a bad situation."

Another controller at the Nashua center conf

Re: [CTRL] Kris and Listers. Lift all message restrictions.

2001-09-12 Thread Nurev Ind.


-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 9/12/01 9:37:25 AM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


   I would like all message restrictions lifted for the duration of the crisis.
   If others agree, let's do it.

7 per day from you Zev is more than enough!!

Bill.


I don't remember anyone asking your permission asshole.

J2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] More than the twin towers, other buildings were destroyed or are at risk AP Graphic


-Caveat Lector-

 September 12, 2001

: 09/12/2001 6:40 pm ET


More than the twin towers, other buildings were destroyed or are at
risk AP Graphic

The Associated Press
NEW YORK (AP) The attention has been on the destruction of the
gleaming twin towers of the World Trade Center destroyed in
Tuesday's terrorist attack.
But the World Trade Center is a complex of seven buildings, and
near it are other major buildings in the dense Financial District
of lower Manhattan.

When the towers were destroyed Tuesday, the Marriott World Trade
Center hotel fell with them. A fourth building, the 45-story
structure known as 7 World Trade Center, also collapsed.

On Wednesday, as reporters were allowed to tour the area, it became
clear other buildings were at risk.

The World Financial Center, across the street, is heavily damaged.
The Hilton's luxury Millennium hotel is still standing, but with 75
less windows.

Reports trickled in Wednesday about other destruction around the
World Trade Center.

With concentration focused on removing bodies and searching for
survivors, it was difficult to confirm how many other buildings had
been lost, but the heaviest losses seemed to be in the trade
center's immediate area.

Destroyed:

Both World Trade Center towers.

The 45-story structure known as 7 World Trade Center.

Marriott World Trade Center hotel.

Severely damaged:

One Liberty Plaza on Liberty Street.

World Financial Center on West Street.

The 90 West on West Street, office building erected in 1907,
designed by famed downtown architect Cass Gilbert.

Building on West Street that housed a phone company.

Moderate damage:

Hilton Millennium on Church Street, 75 broken windows.

Storefronts and street-level offices along Broadway and West
Street, widespread shattering of windows and glass.


Copyright 2001 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This
material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or
redistributed.

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: [AL-AWDA-News] Arafat Donates Blood for U.S. VictimsPhotos

2001-09-12 Thread Nurev Ind.


-Caveat Lector-

William Shannon wrote:
>
>   
>
> Subject: [AL-AWDA-News] Arafat Donates Blood for U.S. Victims Photos
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:19:51 -0700
> From: "Wilderness Voice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Arafat Donates Blood for U.S. Victims Photos

Obviously a form of biological warfare.

>
> GAZA (Reuters) - Palestinian President Yasser Arafat (news - web sites)
> donated blood Wednesday for the victims of the terror attacks in New York
> and Washington while other Palestinians held a vigil in Jerusalem in
> sympathy with the United States. ''God bless them,'' Arafat said as
> medical staff prepared to draw his blood in Gaza Shifa hospital. Palestinian
> officials said his donation would be the start of a blood drive for the
> casualties of Tuesday's attacks.

Nice.
>
> It was unclear if arrangements had been made to transfer the blood from
> Gaza and the West Bank to the United States.

This blood will not be suitable for diabetics because of the vast amounts of
candy ingested by the Palestinians celebrating the destruction in NY and Wash.
I hope they put labels on. We know how much they care.

> Thousands of Israelis donated
> blood Wednesday, health officials said.
>
> Dozens of Palestinian men, women and children gathered in front of the
> U.S. Consulate in East Jerusalem, lighting candles and placing flowers along
> its walls.
>
> Some of the placards they carried read: ``Terror is our common enemy'' and
> ``We are victims too.''

Good one.

>
> Tuesday, some in the West Bank city of Nablus and Arab East Jerusalem
> rejoiced publicly after hijacked planes slammed into the World Trade
> Center and the Pentagon (news - web sites).
>
> Palestinian lawmaker Hanan Ashrawi told a news conference the celebrations
> were ``misguided'' and ``aberrations'' motivated by a feeling among
> Palestinians that they have been victims of U.S. backing for Israel.

What does this mean???

>
> At least 569 Palestinians and 165 Israelis have been killed since a
> Palestinian uprising against Israeli occupation began last September after
> peace talks stalled.
>
> Israel has used U.S.-made weapons, including F-16 warplanes and Apache
> helicopters, in some of the fighting.
>
> HORROR MOVIE
>
> Many Palestinians spent a sleepless night glued to television sets as they
> followed the developments in New York and Washington.
>
> ``I thought I was watching a Hollywood horror movie...I couldn't believe
> my eyes,'' Mohammad Khaled, 20, a student in Ramallah in the West Bank, told
> Reuters.
>
> ``We the Palestinians are human beings and we don't celebrate when others
> are mourning,'' 42-year-old housewife Amal Qassem told Reuters from
> Bethlehem.

That's right. The pictures on TV are phony.

>
> ``Although Israel hits us every day with American Apache helicopters and
> uses American weapons to kill our people, we send our condolences to the
> families of the victims,'' she said.
>
> Arafat condemned the attacks as a ``terrible act'' Tuesday and said he
> would help track down those responsible if asked by the Americans.
>
> Palestinians have slammed the United States, alleging bias toward Israel
> in the Middle East conflict. They have burned U.S. flags during the nearly
> year-old revolt.

And what did they do BEFORE the year old revolt?

>
> TRAGEDY SHOULD NOT BE EXPLOITED
>
> Many who spoke to Reuters Wednesday said they feared Israel would exploit
> the events in the United States to portray the Arabs and Muslims as
> ``terrorists.''

That's right the Arabs and Muslims who flew the planes into the 3 landmarks
are NOT terrorists. They are student pilots.

>
> Arafat delayed a planned visit to Syria Wednesday in the aftermath of the
> attacks. Palestinian officials said he put on hold all plans and meetings
> and his office was monitoring developments with concern.

If I were he, I'd be very concerned right now.

> For some Palestinian officials the attacks dealt a heavy blow to hopes for
> direct U.S. involvement to end the bloodshed and revive the peace process.
>
> ``Of course we have differences with the Americans because America
> supports Israel but we do not accept this tragedy against the Americans.
This is a terrible terrorist act,'' said Nadia Hamadan, 33, from Nablus.

Thanks Nadia for clarifying that.

>
> Palestinian analyst Ghassan al-Khatib said the ``human tragedy'' in the
> United States should not be exploited for political gains by making
> Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims look like the ``bad guys.''

Nah. This isn't Hollywood. This is real life. Why would anybody think that
the people who murdered tens of thousands of people in NY and Washington
are " bad guys?" Bill Shannon doesn't think so. He knows who the real bad
guys are.

Joshua2

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==
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screeds a

Re: [CTRL] News TodayWhite House was probably a target

-Caveat Lector-

Well, with Empire State Building and Penn State are evacuated right
now, we can only pray this is over and these are cruel pranks. They
were telling people to leave Central Park, too. How will we ever
know when it ends?  These cities are centers for all sorts of
things and so many have family in them from all over the country.
It is stressing me out.  I wish my kids were home with me but then
I think what about the kids who will never go home.

Those workers are using the only reliable method, digging by hand
and bucket brigade.  That has to be taking its toll on them. It has
to be emotionally devastating as well as physically exhaustive.
One said it was worse than Vietnam. The nation is behind them and
their efforts. I know they have the little robots but they can only
do so much.  Let us know if anything is done for the dogs, too.
That list of numbers you posted is great.  I printed to give the
info to people on other lists that need it.

You are right about my count as I was listening and not reading the
captions.  It is only 9 alive.  And they are now saying over
20,000.  Over by how much?  Another ten thousand?  Give or take ten
thousand?  Now they are saying another 10,000 in the mall
underneath.  This is the first time we have counted our dead by the
estimated 10,000. Are they deliberately breaking it to us slowly?
~Amelia~

- Original Message -
From: "RevCOAL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] News TodayWhite House was probably a target

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Amelia wrote:
>90 survivors have been pulled from the rubble alive!

You're off by a factor of 10...only 9 survivors have been found in
the
rubble, most of them firefighters or policemen.  82 bodies have
been
pulled from the rubble, and are in the morgue.

>Although this
>is slow, 120 trucks of debris was removed overnight so they are in
>a better position to work faster now.

The nearby Marriott hotel collapsed this afternoon, and One Liberty
Plaza
and the Millenium Hotel are about ready to collapse...so rescue and
recovery efforts will NOT be speeded up for any time soon

>There have been reported a few attacks on Arab-Americans in the
>area.  There is also concern for a gas leak. This will necessitate
>some amount of evacuation.

The air is toxic down there with asbestos and carcinogenic
chemicals
(from the burning debris)...

June

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==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Terror pilots were trained in U.S.


-Caveat Lector-

The Empire State Building has just been evacuated becuase of
threats.  Penn Station was just searched by bomb-sniffing dogs.
There are 'credible' threats against more targets.  This may not be
over yet.

Now it was said that we would bomb the country that trained the
pilots.  Does this mean we have to bomb Flordia?  This is why we
need to get a grip!  Do we have proof who did this yet?  Looking
like a concerted effort attack.  I do not think we will be able to
blame Bin Laden entirely when all the information comes out.
~Amelia~


Terror pilots were trained in U.S.
  At least three underwent
flight training in Florida, sources tell MSNBC.com
Sept. 12 -- Attorney General John Ashcroft said Wednesday that
authorities are embarking on what promises to be "the most massive
and intensive investigation ever conducted in America."


By Mike Brunker and Robert Windrem
MSNBC
Sept. 12 -  One day into what promises to be the biggest criminal
investigation ever, authorities have determined that at least a
dozen terrorists took part in the assault on America, including
pilots who were trained in the United States, Attorney General John
Ashcroft said Wednesday. Meanwhile, FBI agents fanned out in
Florida, Massachusetts and elsewhere to question associates and
obtain evidence about who was behind the plot to commandeer four
airliners and use them as flying bombs.

"THE FOUR PLANES were hijacked by between three and six
individuals per plane, using knives and box cutters, and in some
cases making bomb threats," said Ashcroft, speaking at a news
conference in Washington. "A number of the suspected hijackers were
trained as pilots in the United States."
   Ashcroft's comment means that a minimum of 12 people - and
maximum of 24 - were involved in the attacks.
   Agents fanned out across the country in a massive effort to
learn everything possible about the suspects and to prevent their
associates from vanishing, FBI Director Robert Mueller said at the
briefing.
   Mueller disputed reports that associates of the suspected
terrorists had been arrested, but allowed that some individuals had
been detained and questioned.
   Among the conflicting reports was an account published by
the Boston Globe that three people were taken into custody
Wednesday during a police raid on a Boston hotel.

BOSTON HOTEL RAID
   Guests were ordered to evacuate the 36-story Westin Hotel in
Boston's Back Bay section, according to a guest leaving the hotel
who declined to give his name. As a large crowd gathered outside,
one person was taken out of the hotel and put in a van.
   "SWAT teams were all around holding machine guns," said R.J.
Ryan, who was among hundreds of onlookers. "They put somebody in
the van. Then they started moving everybody."
   The Boston Globe said three people were arrested in the raid
after they had been linked to a credit card used to purchase
tickets for hijackers who took over the flights that later crashed
into the World Trade Center, both of which originated in Boston.
   It said it was not known whether they were considered
suspects in the bombing.
   Media outlets also reported that a train that had passed
through Boston was halted, evacuated and searched Wednesday in
Providence, R.I. One man wearing a green turban was led away in
handcuffs.
   Col. Richard Sullivan, the Providence police chief, said
later that the man did not appear to have any connection with the
terrorist acts. But he was charged with a weapons violation for
carrying a knife, Sullivan said. He remained in custody on
Wednesday afternoon.
   NBC News also reported that two people believed to be
connected to the attacks had been arrested in Portsmouth, Va. No
details on their relationship to the case were immediately
available.
   Earlier in the day, law enforcement officials who spoke to
NBC News on condition of anonymity said people were being arrested
as material witnesses if they declined to answer questions or
otherwise cooperate.

CLUES FOUND AT LOGAN AIRPORT

 Within hours of Tuesday's devastating attacks,
investigators launched a massive manhunt for the perpetrators. They
quickly uncovered their first leads at Boston's Logan airport.
   U.S. intelligence sources told MSNBC.com that FBI agents had
located a car that apparently carried some of the terrorists to the
airport, where the two hijacked flights that destroyed the World
Trade Center originated.
   Video from surveillance cameras showed that five men, all
apparently of Arabic origin, left the rented car in an airport
garage, said the sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Flight manuals in Arabic and paperwork were found in the vehicle.
   The Boston Herald, quoting a source close to the
investigation, said the FBI had obtained a warrant to further
search the Mitsubishi sedan rented from National Car Rental.
   Intelligence officials also said that the FBI has determined
that at least

Re: [CTRL] News TodayWhite House was probably a target

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Amelia wrote:
>90 survivors have been pulled from the rubble alive!

You're off by a factor of 10...only 9 survivors have been found in the
rubble, most of them firefighters or policemen.  82 bodies have been
pulled from the rubble, and are in the morgue.

>Although this
>is slow, 120 trucks of debris was removed overnight so they are in
>a better position to work faster now.

The nearby Marriott hotel collapsed this afternoon, and One Liberty Plaza
and the Millenium Hotel are about ready to collapse...so rescue and
recovery efforts will NOT be speeded up for any time soon

>There have been reported a few attacks on Arab-Americans in the
>area.  There is also concern for a gas leak. This will necessitate
>some amount of evacuation.

The air is toxic down there with asbestos and carcinogenic chemicals
(from the burning debris)...

June

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Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth)
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Re: [CTRL] Admiral Moorer Clinton Policies Led to Disaster




I wonder if we can all pull together and not 
point fingers and blame each other.  Let's fix what does not work and needs 
to be updated.  So far the politicos have refrained from the blame game and 
I hope that lasts for we are being closely watched by our enemies.  Do not 
give them the pleasure of in-squabbling. Six months from now if they want to 
scratch out each others eyes, OK but during this time while we are digging our 
dead out by hand and bucket brigade we are all for America first.  And we 
have current evacuations under way all over.  I am sure the Admiral means 
well but not NOW!
~Amelia~
- Original Message - 
From: William Shannon 

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Admiral Moorer Clinton Policies Led to 
Disaster
In a message dated 9/12/01 8:57:10 PM Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 

I wonder if we could get that Billion Dollars back that Clinton 
  gave Syria to look the other way when we launched air strikes into Iraq, 
  which they then spent on more armament?I'd be content to get 
the multi-billions back that we've given to Israel over the years and the 
many more billions they are fully expecting in the future. Bill.

Re: [CTRL] (fwd) Poll: Americans Willing to Go to War --WashingtonPost/ABC-News


-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Nurev Ind. wrote:
>I'm glad we can finally agree. Bring ALL of the miliary home.

The only problem with that is that once they are all home, they will be
put to work policing us under martial law...   :-[


June

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==
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Admiral Moorer Clinton Policies Led to Disaster

In a message dated 9/12/01 8:57:10 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


I wonder if we could get that Billion Dollars back that Clinton gave Syria
to look the other way when we launched air strikes into Iraq, which they
then spent on more armament?

I'd be content to get the multi-billions back that we've given to Israel over
the years and the many more billions they are fully expecting in the future.

Bill.

[CTRL] Chomsky And Cockburn & St.Clair On Yesterday's Events And The Future

http://www.counterpunch.org/



September 12, 2001


A Quick Reaction

By Noam Chomsky

The September 11 attacks were major atrocities. In terms of number of victims 
they do not reach the level of many others, for example, Clinton's bombing of 
the Sudan with no credible pretext, destroying half its pharmaceutical 
supplies and probably killing tens of thousands of people (no one knows, 
because the US blocked an inquiry at the UN and no one cares to pursue it). 
Not to speak of much worse cases, which easily come to mind. But that this 
was a horrendous crime is not in doubt. 

The primary victims, as usual, were working people: janitors, secretaries, 
firemen, etc. It is likely to prove to be a crushing blow to Palestinians and 
other poor and oppressed people. It is also likely to lead to harsh security 
controls, with many possible ramifications for undermining civil liberties 
and internal freedom.

The events reveal, dramatically, the foolishness of ideas about "missile 
defense." As has been obvious all along, and pointed out repeatedly by 
strategic analysts, if anyone wants to cause immense damage in the US,
including weapons of mass destruction, they are highly unlikely to launch a 
missile attack, thus guaranteeing their immediate destruction. 

There are innumerable easier ways that are basically unstoppable. But these 
events will, nonetheless, be used to increase the pressure to
develop these systems and put them into place. "Defense" is a thin cover for 
plans for militarization of space, and with good PR, even the flimsiest 
arguments will carry some weight among a frightened public.

In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right, those who hope to 
use force to control their domains. That is even putting aside the likely US 
actions, and what they will trigger -- possibly more attacks like this one, 
or worse. The prospects ahead are even more ominous than
they appeared to be before the latest atrocities.



September 12, 2001

Sense and Nonsense About September 11

By Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St Clair


Did Osama bin-Laden outwit US intelligence agencies in a deadly game of decoy 
or double bluff? CounterPunch has learned from two sources that a) three 
weeks before the attack of September 11 security at the World Trade Center 
was abruptly heightened and that b) six weeks before the attack a US army 
base in New Jersey was placed on top security alert.

As regards the heightened security at the Trade Center, we are told that 
according to a businessman working in World Trade Building number 7 (the 
41-story structure that collapsed after having been evacuated) "security was 
heightened three weeks ago, including the introduction for the first time of 
sniffer dogs and the physical search of all trucks prior to their being waved 
into the entrance from the street.

The US army base in New Jersey is the Arsenal at Picatinny. Our informant 
says that at the start of July the Arsenal was placed at a very state of 
alert, with some staff locked in their offices for a period.

Set this information against the fact that Osama bin Laden, now prime 
suspect, said in an interview three weeks ago with Abdel-Bari Atwan, the 
editor of the London-based al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper, that he planned "very, 
very big attacks against American interests." On the night of September 11 
Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts told CNN that CIA director George Tenet 
informed him before the attack that the Agency had recently thwarted an 
attack by bin Laden's organization.

So, was there an attempted attack some time in August, or was it merely a 
feint by the bin Laden units, to prompt an alert, then a relaxation of US 
security procedures?

US intelligence agencies, stung with charges that they are responsible for a 
failure of catastrophic proportions, are successfully pressing for bigger 
funding, with the likelihood that the present $30 billion outlay will soar 
upward. 

The September 11th onslaughts on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon are 
being likened to Pearl Harbor and the comparison is just. From the point of 
view of the assailants the attacks were near miracles of logistical 
calculation, timing, courage in execution and devastation inflicted upon the 
targets. 

The Pearl Harbor base containing America's naval might was thought to be 
invulnerable, yet in half an hour 2000 were dead, and the cream of the fleet 
destroyed. This week, within an hour on the morning of September 11, security 
at three different airports was successfully breached, the crews of four 
large passenger jets efficiently overpowered, the cockpits commandeered, 
navigation coordinates reset. 

In three of the four missions the assailants attained successes probably far 
beyond the expectations of the planners. As a feat of suicidal aviation the 
Pentagon kamikaze assault was particularly audacious, with eyewitness 
accounts describing the Boeing 767 skimming the Potomac before d

Re: [CTRL] A Call To All Americans


-Caveat Lector-

June:


>I found his post highly offensive.


Why June, you're going to make me cry (sniff. . .this).


>   A crazed Moslem fundamentalist sect
>intent on conducting a holy war against us is no more representative of
>the rank and file of Islam, than the Aryan Nation is representative of
>the rank and file of the Christian faith...


Neither of which you know anything about--unless, of course, you can speak
for the rank and file of anyone, much less the two extremist organizations
you mention. Are you a spokesperson for either, June?



> >Stupid gun pusher. Do the word " pressurized cabin " mean anything to you
> >genius?
>
>Yet Peter Jennings suggested something similar, that airlines will need
>to start carrying armed guards on board...now THAT is a scary idea,


Only to useless government junkies dependent on others for ensuring their
security, but then life itself is scary to such persons.


>  if the guards are your usual 'rent a cop' private security guard...


A gun in the hands of anyone trained to use it would have prevented any one
of these tragedies.


>I think a better idea would be to allow -- or even require -- that the
>cockpit crew carry sidearms


Damn, June, that's not a bad idea. Maybe someone should have suggested that
flight crews be armed (ROFL!)


> >> Push your local representatives to MAKE THIS LAW!! Turn the entire middle
> >> east into a parking lot!!
> >
> >Your a good Christian Edward. Jesus saves, but you prefer parking lots.
>
>He also ignores the fact, or is ignorant of the fact, that Afghanistan is
>not the Middle East per se, but Asia Minor


I know where Afghanistan is, but couldn't care less. A few H-bombs should
cover it inasmuch as it's a wasteland only slightly smaller than the state
of Texas.


>Also I find it offensive to say we should stoop as low as the terrorists,


Buck up, little trooper. You'll get over it soon enough.


>and kill innocent women (innocent men, for that matter) and children and
>sick and elderly


The heat's intense; it shouldn't last more than a few seconds--unlike the
time that the innocent men, women and children had to wait in both towers
of the WTC and the four planes before they died.


Edward   ><+>

Logic:

(1) The study or practice of the principles of reasoning, especially of the
structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method
and validity in deductive reasoning.

(2) A means of terrifying liberals.

http://www.global-connector.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/reality_pump/
~~

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Re: [CTRL] Admiral Moorer Clinton Policies Led to Disaster


-Caveat Lector-

http://www.nationalaviation.org/enshrinee/moorer.html
I would have to say Adm. Moorer certainly has more credibility than your
opinion. Perhaps you could contact President Bush personally and tell him
you have the "Final Answer" for the root cause of Terrorism? I'm sure he
would most certainly give one such as yourself audience along with the
Cabinet and would without hesitation, weigh your words heavily.

I wonder if we could get that Billion Dollars back that Clinton gave Syria
to look the other way when we launched air strikes into Iraq, which they
then spent on more armament?



-Original Message-
From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of William Shannon
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:07 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Admiral Moorer Clinton Policies Led to Disaster


In a message dated 9/12/01 7:58:51 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



The catastrophe that struck America was the result of a decade of military
cuts and the undermining of U.S. intelligence agencies, Admiral Thomas H.
Moorer told NewsMax.com


The catastrophe was the direct result of US aid to Israel...plain and
simple.

Bill.

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Terrorism on Trial (Daniel Pipes and Steven Emerson) July, 2001


-Caveat Lector-

c.,
May God forgive me if in my grief I have been insensitive to a
British soccer fan! We are digging out over 20,000 dead, c.  Do you
realize that I am about roughly as far from New York as the entire
EU?  I was trying to be supportive of them.  That's all. There has
never been a terrorist attack of this magnitude for comparison.  I
think they behaved admirable.  It could have been sheer chaos.  I
want the people of the NYC area to know the rest of the country is
behind them and supportive.

 I have no knowledge of soccer and no particular incident in mind.
It was the first example of trampling that came to my mind. I spoke
without research. Obviously, I should have put aside my own shock
and grief and thought of you and the other fans instead. In fact my
mind was elsewhere, if you can believe it.  I was thinking of our
dead and not the sensibilities of British or other fans!  How could
I?  Where are my priorities?  But now that you have injected this
trivial subject into an otherwise serious discussion, I hate
soccer.  I always have.  I bet now I always will. I have only heard
reports of trampling at games.  Period.  I used what I had heard as
an example of trampling.  Take it personally if you like or take it
any way at all for I do not care what you think.

I think this is not the time for nit-picking as you are doing and I
do not appreciate it one bit.  If you do not like what I am saying,
do not read my posts.  When times are tough, we find out who our
real friends are.  I hope you never have to deal with a situation
like this but if you do, I hope some little creep will not crawl
out from under a rock and try to put words in your mouth and issue
veiled threats about something you cannot even understand and
invent some slight in the midst of your mourning.  Go crawl back
under your rock and allow us to deal with our grief in peace. You
are despicable!  What an utter lack of compassion.  I do not give a
rat's ass if you and your soccer teams trample each other to death
for obviously you have not one shred of concern for what we are
going through in this country.
~Amelia~

- Original Message -
From: "c." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Terrorism on Trial (Daniel Pipes and
Steven Emerson) July, 2001


-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Amelia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 7:47 PM
Subject: [CTRL] Fwd: Terrorism on Trial (Daniel Pipes and Steven
Emerson)
July, 2001


Compare
> and contrast that to soccer games where they trample each other
to
> death!

be extremely careful with the accuracy of your sources, amelia,
when you
deny that it is a case of an american claiming to be better at
dealing with
emergancies than... a european? or who? american soccer fans?
do you have an incident in mind? i can think of two you may be
mistakenly
refering to... cause i just wanna vomit on ya when i read the
above.
am i wrong to jump to conclusions about your meaning? you cannot
really be
so sick as to gloat about how great and better you americans are in
a tragic
situation than other nationalities. mistakenly too... well, there's
a
surprise.
but, please, show me i am mistaken.

<

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Re: [CTRL] (fwd) Poll: Americans Willing to Go to War

2001-09-12 Thread flw


-Caveat Lector-

>
> I'm glad we can finally agree. Bring ALL of the miliary home.
>
> J2

Yes. Bring the boys home. We need them to protect us
from the CIA, the FBI and the DEA.
flw

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[CTRL] Public Service Announcement in response to yesterday's tragedy. (fwd)

-Caveat Lector-

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:31:50 -0500
From: CoolSavings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Public Service Announcement in response to yesterday's tragedy.

We are deeply saddened and horrified at yesterday's
shocking attack against our nation. Our hearts, thoughts
and prayers go out to everyone affected by this national
tragedy.

To join in support during this difficult time, we have
compiled a list of resources below for those seeking
information on loved ones or how you can help.

Sincerely,

Your friends at CoolSavings

EMERGENCY RELIEF EFFORTS

To give blood:

--Call 1-800-GIVE-LIFE to schedule an appointment with the
  American Red Cross near where you live.

--Visit www.nybloodcenter.org to donate blood in the
  New York area.

To donate money:

--The United Way
  Contribute to The September Eleventh Fund to help the
  victims of the attacks and their families and provide
  immediate support to established emergency assistance
  agencies. Call 212-251-4035.

--American Red Cross
  Call 1-(800) HELP-NOW

--Salvation Army
  1-(800) SAL-ARMY

  AIRLINES

Friends and family who wish to check on passengers and
flights may call:
American Airlines, 1-800-245-0999
United Airlines, 1-800-932-8555

 VICTIM INFORMATION

Red Cross WTC Victim Information: 212-604-7285
WTC AON Employees: 203-863-6380
WTC Morgan Stanley Employees: 888-883-4391
Pentagon Employees: 1-877-663-6772
Fire Department Employees: 718-999-2541
Police Department Employees: 718-677-8238

  NEW YORK CITY HOSPITALS

St. Vincent's Hospital: 212-604-7285
Bellevue Hospital Center: 212-562-4141
Coler Memorial Hospital: 212-848-6300
Goldwater Memorial Hospital: 212-318-8000
Gouverneur Hospital D&TC: 212-238-7000

 JUSTICE DEPARTMENT

The Justice Department's Office of Victims of Crime has set
up a phone line to provide information to families about
victims and about services for survivors and their rights:
1-800-331-0075

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[CTRL] Bin Laden under house arrest: report


-Caveat Lector-

WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Peace at any cost is a Prelude to War!

Thursday 13 September 9:14 AM

 Bin Laden under house arrest: report

Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia had placed alleged terrorist mastermind
Osama bin Laden under house arrest in the wake of the suicide attacks on the
United States, an Arabic online newspaper reported.

Quoting "fundamentalist Arab sources", Ilaf said the "Taliban have arrested
Osama bin Laden before placing him under surveillance with several of his
assistants," including the head of the Egyptian branch of Al-Jihad Ayman
Al-Zawahri and bin Laden's military commander, Muhammad Atef Al-Makni.

"A number of Afghan fighters are under house arrest along with bin Laden,"
said the report late Wednesday.

But a diplomat at the Taliban's embassy in Abu Dhabi said he could not
confirm the report.

"All we know is that he (bin Laden) is somewhere in Afghanistan, but we are
not aware if he is under house arrest," the diplomat said.

Bin Laden and commander Atef have been indicted for the 1998 bombings of the
US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

Bin Laden has emerged as the prime suspects in yesterday's kamikaze hijacked
passenger jet strikes on New York and Washington.


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any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use
without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest
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Re: [CTRL] A Call To All Americans

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Fernando Sobral wrote:
>You re lost, Edward. With people thinking like you we are living
>nowadays world.
>
>Kill the arabs that killed your country's people because your country s
>people killed the arab s people ... and keep on following this cycle
>until Mr.Elite and his friends smiles from his bunker while the last
>american, jewish or arab dies.
>
>Ok. That's great for you ... Your mind is a bit compressed 

More than a bit, I'm afraid...

I hope you have an asbestos suit to put on in preparation for Ed's
expected response to your post, but all I can say is "Thank you,
Fernando"...   :-)

June

===
Check out Alternative Kite Radio at
http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com

Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth)
Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth)
Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (it's always summer somewhere)
Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (everyday's a holiday)
===

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[CTRL] FAA STUPIDTHINK

2001-09-12 Thread Nakano Nakamura


-Caveat Lector-

1941.
No not the year.the movie.
You know with John Belushi, Dan Akroyd, Robert Stack.
It was a comedy based on the war hysteria in the U.S.
especially California immediately after Pearl Harbor.
The movie wasn't much of an exaggeration.
In the first few months after Pearl Harbor, they were
having air raid drills all over the U.S.
Places like Kansas City and Indianapolis
were having "blackout drills"to keep the Japs
and Germans from bombing them.  There was no real
threat of that of course...but it was part of the
psychological war scare/frenzy whipped up on the
home front.
In the news today, there was a bunch of idiotic
stuff like this.
At Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, base
employees were forced to sit waiting in their cars for
over 4 hours to enter the base gates.
Every vehicle was being searched for .whatever.
Military Police, Bomb sniffing dogsthe works.
Lackland is where Air Force recruits go through
basic training...no bombers or fighter planes here.
The Air Force must be afraid that Arab terrorist
are going to blow up the barracks, or the
parade grounds...or the base chapel...or the
bowling alley...or maybe the base barber shop.

Then there was this classic case of government
bureaucratic stupidthink: In response to yesterday's
terrorist attacks, bold new regulations were
announced. To prevent any such future attacks,
the FAA is banning plastic knives from all airports
and airliners. If you eat at an airport restaurant,
you'd better not order a steakor even a waffle.
You're gonna have to tear it apart with your bare
hands.  And no more dropping off or picking up
people at the curb in front of the airport...and
no more checking your luggage at the curb.
Nope...no vehicles allowed within 300 feet of
the Terminal. (Will it be raining next time you
make that walk?  Oh yes!)

It should be more than obvious that none of these
new "security measures" would have prevented what
happened yesterday.  And it won't prevent any
future hijackings.  No...it's the bureaucratic
stupidthink way of proving to us they are doing
something to protect us.  Yep they are taking
quick action. Never mind that it's senseless.
It reminds me of my dogs.
Every time I pull into the driveway,
the dogs go running around the yard
barking loudly.
They are showing me they are fierce watchdogs
who have been guarding the property while I was away.
After they bark for 20 or 30 seconds they
trot over waging their tails for a pat on
the head.
Sleep soundly America, your government stands guard
tonight.  They are taking swift and effective
action to protect you.
Or at least they are barking.

 Regards to All
   Nakano


__
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[CTRL] Skolnick- US Had Prior Knowledge Of Emergency

http://www.skolnicksreport.com



Skolnick - US Government
Had Prior Knowledge Of Emergency

By Sherman H. Skolnick



America's Reichstag Fire

The most massive so-called "terrorist" attacks on U.S. soil since the
Oklahoma City bombings of 1995, were known, a week ahead of time, by the
American CIA. Among the foreign intelligence agencies who penetrated the
plots were the French CIA and Israel's The Mossad, units of both often
working with one another.

Foreign intelligence sources confirm the validity of this story. And they
state that they informed the U.S. secret police who absolutely failed,
neglected, and outright refused to take action as to known prior specifics of
which the top-level of the CIA were informed in advance.

As made known to the CIA, were the following, among other details:

[1] That George Herbert Walker Bush, as President, at the close of the
Persian Gulf War, 1991, arranged to bring into the U.S. some four thousand
Iraqi military officers, some from intelligence units, and their families.

[2] Some 550 of these officers became residents in Lincoln, Nebraska, AND TWO
THOUSAND OF THEM took up residence in Oklahoma City. In a watered down story,
CBS' "60 Minutes" Program did a segment once on this about Lincoln, Nebraska
but said NOTHING about the Iraqi military officers in Oklahoma City.

[3] The financial and other provisions for them and their families were
arranged by the Elder Bush, and then quietly continued by Bill Clinton as
President, and perpetuated by George W. Bush as White House "resident" and
"occupant". The arrangements included financial subsidies, housing, and
employment for the Iraqi officers.

[A brave Oklahoma City TV Reporter, Jayna Davis, on their local TV station,
put on the air several stories about the Iraqi connection to the bombing of
the Alfred P. Murrah Building, the bombing done with the aid of domestic
dissidents as surrogates. A group bought out the TV station and silenced her.
Timothy McVeigh's chief defense counsel for the murder trial, Stephen Jones,
on behalf of McVeigh, filed an extra-ordinary petition in the next higher
court, just prior to the murder trial. To no avail, Jones tried to force
Denver U.S. District Judge Richard Matsch to compel the American CIA to
disgorge records held by them showing prior U.S. knowledge of the bombing, as
confirmed by other known records, some of them also in secret court records.
We have a copy of the 185 page U.S. Court of Appeals, 10th Circuit, petition
filed by Jones and almost uniformly ignored by the American monopoly press.
The petition raises the Iraqi connection.]

[4] The foreign intelligence agencies informed the American CIA that guns
would be planted on-board as many as ten U.S. commercial airflights. This to
be done by airplane clean-up crew members who are generally not subject to
airport security provisions. These workers most likely did not know the
purpose of the gun-planting.

[5] The CIA also was informed prior to the "terrorist" attacks scheduled for
"911" Emergency Day [September 11], that highly skilled Iraqi pilots, among
the four thousand Iraqi officers resident in the U.S., would take over the
commercial flights, by retrieving the weapons concealed onboard, and then
commandeering the flight deck.

[6] The Elder Bush, Clinton, and George W. Bush, all were in a position to
know that the Iraqi officers that they provided for included some
double-agents. The FBI Counter-Intelligence Division at no time was
instructed to do anything about these double-agents in a position to commit
mischief, murder, and mayhem, on U.S. soil.

[7] As I revealed a week prior to the "terrorist" attacks, some foreign
television networks were busy preparing lengthy documentaries that would
scandalize George W. Bush and other members of the Bush Family, including the
Elder Bush and Jeb Bush. The subject matter included how forty million
dollars in dope funds were used by the Bush Family to reportedly corrupt
South Florida DEMOCRATS to abandon the recount even ahead of the U.S. Supreme
Court ruling installing George W. Bush as the "resident" and "occupant" of
the White House. The dope funds came reportedly from Bush Family business
partner, Carlos Lehder, co-founder of the U.S./Colombia medellin dope cartel.
[Visit our website story, "Chandra Levy Affair, Part Two".] I discussed this
on radio talk shows.

[8] As part of the targetting of the World Trade Center buildings, a group of
surrogates for the Iraqi military officers, reportedly spent considerable
time within one of the buildings, with building security officers somehow
oblivious of their presence.

[9] As the CIA top officials were informed and had prior knowledge, the
purpose of the "terrorist" attacks was to effectively paralyze the financial
infrastructure of the U.S. Some of the most important stock and bond houses
in the world, with their key people having loads of inside knowledge and hard
to replace trading tricks and expertise, were located in the
kno

Re: [CTRL] A Call To All Americans

2001-09-12 Thread Bill Howard


-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 9/12/01 6:18:21 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Yet Peter Jennings suggested something similar, that airlines will need
to start carrying armed guards on board...now THAT is a scary idea, if
the guards are your usual 'rent a cop' private security guard... >>

The last time the US used sky marshals, they were Customs Agents that had
been loaned to the Marshals Service. Along with some US Marshals, of course.

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Re: [CTRL] A Call To All Americans

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Nurev Ind. wrote:
>> A CALL TO ALL AMERICANS! From now on, the national toilet paper should be
>> the pages of the Koran!
>
>Why? You don't really think that your religion is any better than
>theirs do you?

I think his answer is 'yes'

I found his post highly offensive.  A crazed Moslem fundamentalist sect
intent on conducting a holy war against us is no more representative of
the rank and file of Islam, than the Aryan Nation is representative of
the rank and file of the Christian faith...

>Stupid gun pusher. Do the word " pressurized cabin " mean anything to you
>genius?

Yet Peter Jennings suggested something similar, that airlines will need
to start carrying armed guards on board...now THAT is a scary idea, if
the guards are your usual 'rent a cop' private security guard...

I think a better idea would be to allow -- or even require -- that the
cockpit crew carry sidearms

>> Push your local representatives to MAKE THIS LAW!! Turn the entire middle
>> east into a parking lot!!
>
>Your a good Christian Edward. Jesus saves, but you prefer parking lots.

He also ignores the fact, or is ignorant of the fact, that Afghanistan is
not the Middle East per se, but Asia Minor

Also I find it offensive to say we should stoop as low as the terrorists,
and kill innocent women (innocent men, for that matter) and children and
sick and elderly

June

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[CTRL] FW: United flight shot down - Evidence


-Caveat Lector-

This was a post I forwarded earlier(not to this list) and it has since been
removed for some reason from alt.conspiracy




> -Original Message-
> From: tnohava
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 5:56 PM
> Subject: Fw: United flight shot down - Evidence
>
>
>
>
> "Edvaldo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > Officials are denying that United Flight 93 was shot down by US
> > military aircraft. But these facts, gathered from the links below,
> > seem to indicate otherwise.
> > FACTS:
> > - the passenger who was locked in the bathroom and called 911 said
> > that he heard some sort of explosion and saw white smoke coming from
> > the plane.
> > - the FBI seized the 911 tape which recorded that call, saying it was
> > for investigation.
> > - witnesses reported hearing one to three explosions before the crash.
> > - Terry Butler said, "It dropped out of the clouds. The plane rose
> > slightly,   trying to gain altitude, then it just went flip to the
> > right and then straight down". Other witnesses saw the plane flip
> > over.
> > - in the morning of the attacks all the media agencies were reporting
> > that the United flight 93 had been shot down; but by the beginning of
> > the afternoon they stopped mentioning any shooting down, not even to
> > say it had been a false report.
> > - the United jet had changed course and seemed to be heading toward
> > D.C.
> > - the jet crashed on an open field.
> > - there was no line of communication with the terrorists; they didn't
> > want to negotiate, they simply wanted to crash the plane into an
> > important building, maybe even the White House.
> >
> > CONCLUSIONS:
> > How do you stop a group of suicidal terrorists from crashing a
> > jetliner into the White House? The military had no choice. They had to
> > strike it down. They could not save the people on the plane, but at
> > least they saved the people in the White House and avoided what would
> > have been a coup de grâce to the American pride.
> > The plane was hit above the clouds, so nobody saw the jet fighters,
> > and the hit(s) was directed at the plane steering mechanism; that's
> > why it flipped over and plummeted to the ground, and also such hits
> > would be more difficult to be noticed by witnesses.
> > Why did the FBI seize the 911 tape? To investigate what? They were
> > afraid the sound of the hit(s) to the jetliner could be heard in the
> > recording.
> > And why did reporters suddenly started behaving as if there had never
> > been any mention of an air strike? Censorship.
> > I am sure they did the right thing by taking down that jet, but this
> > censorship is ridiculous. They are treating us like we are idiots.
> >
> > http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010912somerscenenat4p3.asp
> > http://www.sfgate.com/today/plane.shtml
> > http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010912crashnat2p2.asp
>

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Re: [CTRL] Admiral Moorer Clinton Policies Led to Disaster

In a message dated 9/12/01 7:58:51 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


The catastrophe that struck America was the result of a decade of military
cuts and the undermining of U.S. intelligence agencies, Admiral Thomas H.
Moorer told NewsMax.com

The catastrophe was the direct result of US aid to Israel...plain and simple.

Bill.

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: I wish you all could have savored this!


-Caveat Lector-

Well savor this garbage put out by ADL and pull up the little side
stories; my god they even try to censor the Egyptian press.

Who the hell do these people think they are; note, Jewish Egyptians?
That is a new twistLong Live Nasser.

Shinta Nationalism..Flying Serpents crashing into NWOand this
bastard Zionist no doub on TV tongight said "hey, this is what we needed
for a leveling process"   spoken like a true Bnai Brith ADL parasite.

Saba

Interesting but older stuff.Constitution said provide for the Common
Defense..but Lieberman said (Holy Joe) hey we are alright - we are
okay - we are going to meet tonight (the senate)..

But what about the 10,000 who won't be home for dinner?

Saba

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Re: [CTRL] WTC: Two Of My Relatives May Have Been Killed

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, M. F. Abernathy wrote:
>I am very worried. I had two relatives who worked in Lower Manhattan in
>the vicinity of the World Trade Center, and neither of them have been
>heard from since the attack.
>
>My sister [ Barbara A. Abernathy -- D.O.B. 7/16/68 ] has not been heard
>from by any members of my family since the attack, and my Uncle [Harry
>L. Isom -- D.O.B. 4/21/34 ] is also unaccounted for -- he didn't come
>home last night. I can only pray, hope for the best, and prepare for the
>worst. I am *extremely* worried.

Oh, gosh!  My prayers are with you and your family, and I hope both your
relatives turn up at one of the hospitals or at Liberty Park...

Where did they work, if not in the towers themselves?

June

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[CTRL] Admiral Moorer Clinton Policies Led to Disaster




 http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/9/12/121348.shtml

Admiral Moorer: Clinton Policies Led to Disaster
NewsMax.com
Wednesday, September 12, 2001

The catastrophe that struck America was the result of a decade of military
cuts and the undermining of U.S. intelligence agencies, Admiral Thomas H.
Moorer told NewsMax.com

Admiral Moorer served as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the nations
highest-ranking military official, and brought the Vietnam war to a
conclusion. He has served in three major wars.

Yesterdays events brought back memories of Pearl Harbor, he said. Admiral
Moorer, then a naval aviator, was present at Pearl Harbor on December 7,
1941.

Admiral Moorer made the following analysis to NewsMax, his quotes are in
bold:

1. The Clinton administration had a similar view to intelligence agencies as
the Carter administration. They didnt like using spies. This is why we had
no warning.

"You absolutely need spies, you need them to melt into a society and tell
you what is going on, you cant rely on satellites and technology alone.

2. The actions taken yesterday were the result of perceived weakness of U.S.
armed forces.

"President Clinton brought the military down and down. He made the military
like it was before Pearl Harbor.

3. The U.S. must significantly increase its use of human intelligence, that
is spies on the ground in foreign countries.

4. America must remain vigilant.

"This is like what Yamamoto said after Pearl Harbor, A sleeping tiger has
been aroused. We cant just strike back and go back to sleep. Next time the
attack could be even more serious.

5. Soon terrorist groups will have access to nuclear weapons.

"This is inevitable. Countries like Russia and China are providing countries
like Pakistan, Iraq and Iran with this technology  the same technology
Clinton gave to the Chinese.

6. Missile defense is needed now.

"The media is dead wrong when it says this proves we dont need missile
defense. Soon, the same counties that supported these terrorists that just
attacked us will have missiles capable of hitting the U.S. We need to defend
against their use.

7. No additional attacks for the immediate future.

I believe they reached the limits of their capabilities with these attacks.
But they will try again later. They want nuclear weapons.

 Admiral Moorer Clinton Policies Led to Disaster.url

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Terrorism on Trial (Daniel Pipes and Steven Emerson) July, 2001

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Amelia wrote:
>If you hear any more about the person telling people to stay calm
>and stay in the building, please post it.

Nope, nothing more today, but then there weren't many survivors hanging
around to be interviewed...

>Could she have been
>well-intended and just somebody who thought she would avert panic
>by doing this?  Or do you think something far more sinister?

While the female survivor just reported that 'someone told us to stop
leaving and herded us into this room on the 12th floor where a TV was
playing...', the construction worker specifically stated 'some guy told
us to stay put and not evacuate'...

The contruction worker didn't mention any room with a TV, I'm not sure if
he and the woman survivor were even in the same building or each in
separate towers...

If it was just one incident, one could perhaps brush it off as misguided
advice from a well-meaning anonymous individual...but the fact that 2
people in 2 separate incidents report an attempt to keep them inside
instead of evacuating, and the possibility that it was 2 separate people
doing this, I think raises questions about what was going on...

Especially when one muses on why there just happened to be what seemed to
be a collection area for evacuees on the 12th floor with a TV set
up...according to this woman, there was nothing else in the room except
the TV and people milling about, wondering what to do...

According to this woman, they were specifically stopped IN THE STAIRWELL
by this person, who seemed to be stationed deliberately at the 12th floor
level to divert evacuees to this mysterious empty room with the TV.

But if that person was still there when the woman and her friends decided
to book out again, at least he or she did not stop them a 2nd time...

But I do have to wonder how many other people were still milling around,
watching that TV on the 12th floor, when the building collapsed...

>Also, I have been so proud of the behavior of the New Yorkers!
New Yorkers, no less!  Behaving in a very civilized manner and showing
>compassion and helping each other.

You obviously don't know the Big Apple and its residents well...this
happens all the time, albeit on a much smaller scale.  New Yorkers always
pull together in a crisis...  :-)

>I thought they did not care,
>etc. and even prided themselves on their bad attitude.

Ah!  You see, they really care too much, and hide their collective
marshmallow interior with a hard, tough veneer...

>Even when
>they were running as the buildings collapsed and all of the debris
>was coming right up the street after them, there was no pushing, no
>shoving and people actually picked up anybody who fell.

Yep...that's Big Applites fer ya!

Although late this afternoon they showed an evacuation from one of the
buildings near the WTC which is about to collapse...there was a camera
crew in the lobby, along with a whole bunch of rescue personnel, when the
building started shaking and they thought it was about to fall...

The cameraman kept filming as they all hightailed it out there...as he
ran thru the lobby doors with dozens of rescue personnel running in front
and past him (and those outside starting to run as people shout "Get out
of the area, it's about to fall!"), suddenly a woman pushes past -- she
hadn't been visible before that.  I suspect that she was part of the
camera crew, as she was wearing clean crisp designer jeans and a nice
clean, white shirt...in other words, it didn't look like she had been
taking an active part in the rescue operation.  Plus she had a designer
knapsack on her back...

Well, she was the only womanand everyone had to squeeze thru a narrow
area because of the constrictions of debris, abandoned cars, etc.  Some
of the guys just milled, wondering whether they should leave or not.
Some others were weighed down with rescue equipment.  In other words,
most couldn't move very fast

And suddenly you see this babe just elbowing her way thru the crowd...it
was obvious that she was very afraid and wanted to put as much space
between herself and the dangerous building as possible, and wasn't going
to let a little thing like manners get in the way...   :-)

That's Big Applites fer ya, too!  ;-)

>One man passing out sneakers from his store to those women with no
>shoes!  What is the world coming to?  New Yorkers are going to lose
>their reputation for being nasty! :-)

They're never really nasty, just abrupt.

What's nasty is those gas stations in the midwest gas gouging
yesterdayas you pointed out, in New York people have been coming
forward to give things away, either to victims or to the rescuers...

I even contacted the AKC today to see if they knew of any efforts
underway to render assistance to all the rescue dogs and their handlers
working the WTC rubble...this morning WCBS-TV showed one handler with his
dog, and it was obvious that both were exhausted, already having worked
12 hours straight without a b

[CTRL] Newsday.com - FBI Looks at Bin Laden's Boston Ties





http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-attacks-boston-bin-laden
0912sep12.story?coll=sns%2Dap%2Dnationworld%2Dheadlines

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-attacks-boston-bin-laden
0912sep12.story

FBI Looks at Bin Laden's Boston Ties
By DENISE LAVOIE
Associated Press Writer

September 12, 2001, 7:36 AM EDT

BOSTON -- Terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden has strong family ties and a
group of supporters in Boston, where the two hijacked airliners that
demolished the World Trade Center took off.

One of bin Laden's brothers set up scholarship funds at Harvard, while
another relative owns six condominiums in an expensive complex in the
Charlestown section of Boston. Two bin Laden associates once worked as
Boston cab drivers, including one who was jailed in Jordan on charges of
plotting to blow up a hotel full of Americans and Israelis.

Bin Laden's ties to Boston are now being closely scrutinized as authorities
focus their investigation on terrorist cells with possible ties to him, said
Robert Fitzpatrick, the former second-in-command at the FBI's Boston office.

"The activity of this group here is obviously significant," Fitzpatrick said
Wednesday.

Investigators are interviewing drivers from Boston Cab Co., where two known
associates of bin Laden once worked, to see if they had ties to baggage
handlers, who in turn may have supplied weapons to the hijackers,
Fitzpatrick said.

"They are going to look at the cab drivers again -- since they are
predominantly Middle Eastern -- and they are going to look at a possible
link between them and the baggage handlers," Fitzpatrick said, based on his
information from law enforcement colleagues.

"They could thwart the security by having a baggage handler put the material
aboard the plane. That link is being investigated."

Last year, the FBI investigated the Boston activities of the two cab
drivers, Bassam A. Kanj, a Lebanese native, and Raed M. Hijazi, a
Palestinian. The men were tied by investigators to separate military and
terrorist plots allegedly financed by bin Laden.

Both men lived for years in Boston and Everett, a suburb north of Boston.

Kanj, 35, was killed in Lebanon last year in an attack against the Lebanese
army. Hijazi was charged in Jordan with plotting a New Year's Day 2000 hotel
bombing.

Bin Laden, a rich Saudi exile who is believed to be living in Afghanistan,
also has had family members living in the Boston area for the past decade.

In 1994, one of his brothers, Sheik Bakr Mohammed bin Laden, made a large
donation to Harvard Law School to fund visiting scholars to do research in
Islamic legal studies.

Harvard Law spokesman Michael Armini would not disclose the amount of the
gift, but typically it takes about $1 million to establish a research
fellowship. The sheik established a second scholarship at the Harvard School
of Design.

Harvard officials were quick to distance the school from Osama bin Laden,
emphasizing that he has no role in the scholarship programs.

"This is in no way connected to Osama bin Laden, who has been ostracized
from his family and from Saudi Arabia," Armini said. "The purpose of this
gift was to foster mutual understanding between the western and Islamic
legal worlds."

Stephen Walt, a professor of international politics at the JFK School of
Government at Harvard, likened the relationship of the bin Laden brothers to
that of University of Massachusetts President William Bulger and his
brother, reputed mobster James "Whitey" Bulger, who is among the FBI's 10
Most Wanted.

"I think that bin Laden is responsible for his action, but his brother is
not responsible for Osama's actions, and vice versa," Walt said.

Another relative, Mohammed M. bin Laden, owns six condominiums in the ritzy
Flagship Wharp condominium complex in Charlestown. His relation to bin Laden
could not immediately be determined. A woman who answered the telephone at
the management company for the complex refused to answer questions.

The condos were bought in the mid-1990s and range in assessed value from
$296,000 to $877,000, The Boston Globe reported.

Juliette Kayyem, a former member of the National Commission on Terrorism,
said Boston has several factors that may have attracted bin Laden's
supporters.

"Our proximity to the Canadian border and Boston being a big city where
people can hide is likely why Boston became the center," Kayyem said. "Also
being on the Eastern Seaboard, we have wide-bodied jets with large fuel
tanks. When you don't have other weapons, that's your weapon."
Copyright © 2001, The Associated Press

 Newsday.com - FBI Looks at Bin Laden's Boston Ties.url

Re: [CTRL] What now?

2001-09-12 Thread Biomed Tek


-Caveat Lector-

> Take the handcuffs off Ariel Sharon and Israel to
> respond appropriately to
> the terror attacks the Jewish state has endured for
> the last year.
>
Take the handcuffs off?
You have to be making a joke...


=
=
=
=
=
=
=
=

__
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Re: [CTRL] Terror At Home- The Price Of Hegemony

In a message dated 9/12/01 7:12:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


What the hell we doing supporting a religious state.

Besides inciting acts of terrorism on our soil?

It is HIGH TIME to let Israel sink or swim on their own...take the training
wheels off and let's see how long it takes for them to fall into a BUSH.

Bill.

Re: [CTRL] Terror At Home- The Price Of Hegemony


-Caveat Lector-

Disarm the Israelis and take the sticks and stones from the Palestinians
and then we have one problem solved which has been an expensive thorn in
our side for much too long.

And then wonder now why the Israelis claimed ownership of the Pyramids?

Was this another red flag going up with star of David and Fiery Serpents
hovering above same?

What the hell we doing supporting a religious state.

Maybe we should all sue for recovery - Tall Towers, Fiery Serpents from
the skywith latent stamp of star of David on rear?

Saba

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[CTRL] Fwd: FTW Subscriber Bulletin 01-13 - Bin Laden Fades as Prime Suspect, Global...






Updated 9-12-01
Breaking news - Analysis - Correction

BIN LADEN FADINGS AS SUSPECTED MASTERMIND

REUTERS, CNN PREDICT GLOBAL RECESSION

Central Banks Dump Massive Amounts of Cash to Stave Off Oil, Gold Speculation - May 
Spark Inflation

ASIAN MARKETS TANK

By

Michael C. Ruppert

[© Copyright 2001. All Rights reserved. FTW Publications, www.copvcia.com. May Be 
Reprinted for Non-Profit Purposes only.]

Full reporting and Analysis will be published in the next issue of From The 
Wilderness. Expected mailing date Sept. 18, 2001. Additional reports for paid 
subscribers only will be available in a secure area of the web site beginning on 
approximately 9-13-01.


FTW - On Sept. 11, 2001 the two most visible symbols of American economic and military 
power were simultaneously attacked in a well-planned and well financed attack that 
will have enormous and permanent impact on the world economy and American culture. 
Just a day after the attacks, which brought the planet to a halt, both CNN and Reuters 
- after interviewing many financial experts - are reporting the likelihood of a 
worldwide recession. As major central banks have acted swiftly, with as much as $70 
billion in instant cash infusions to stem immediate spikes in oil and gold prices, the 
likelihood that perennial bogeyman Osama Bin Laden was the prime of origin of the 
attacks diminishes. In a number of media appearances beginning on the evening of 
September 11, former CIA Director James Woolsey has now begun pointing the finger at 
"state sponsorship," - the prime suspect being Iraq.

Continuing revelations as to the complexity of the attacks continues to suggest 
logistical, intelligence and financial resources beyond Bin Laden's known abilities. 
In addition, Bin Laden's lineage, as a protégé of the CIA from the Afghan conflict of 
the 1980s, threatens to raise serious questions which the American government might 
not want answered. [See other FTW stories at www.copvcia.com] .

A stunning report from the respected military and intelligence report Stratfor 
(www.stratfor.com) has officially raised the question that many who watched the Trade 
Center towers collapse vertically, have been asking about secondary explosions and the 
likelihood that charges had been physically placed within the buildings before the 
attacks. In a bulletin yesterday Stratfor wrote:

"Mounting an attack of this sort is not simple. In the case of the World Trade Center, 
the collapse of the towers indicates massive delayed explosions. This means either the 
planes were loaded with explosives or that massive explosive charges were planted in 
the buildings to go off later. This is supposition, but a secondary explosion is a 
necessary factor for explaining the collapse."
As reported last week in bulletins for our paid subscribers, the attacks came at a 
moment when US and world markets were in dire straits and as two hidden factors 
threatened to disclose even greater weaknesses in the US economy. The first of these 
factors is a monstrous derivatives investment bubble -- orchestrated by JPMorganChase 
-- estimated to be near $30 trillion (US), on the verge of implosion and a gold price 
artificially suppressed by the US Treasury and Goldman Sachs that was scheduled to be 
publicly aired in a lawsuit by the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee (GATA) in US 
District Court, Boston on October 9th.

These revelations, on the heels of a near 900 point drop in the Dow Jones Industrial 
Average in the preceding three weeks, could have tipped the US economy even without 
yesterday's attacks.

As reported around the world, especially in London, gold and oil prices spiked in the 
first two hours after the attacks before the European markets closed. The price of 
London gold rose by 6% in less than two hours. Yesterday FTW reported that the Comex 
precious metals exchange had been destroyed in the attack. That is now uncertain. 
Three years ago the Comex moved out of the World Trade Center to a nearby building 
which has been reported to be heavily damaged. However, the Commodity Futures Trading 
Commission, which polices precious metals trading, had its offices in WTC Tower 1 and 
was totally destroyed.

World confidence in the security of US markets and the economy has been shattered. FTW 
correspondents in Moscow report a divergence between public and official government 
reaction. Three people reported from Moscow yesterday an immediate move by Russian 
citizens to sell US dollars - the most common form of savings in the economically 
battered country - resulting in a dramatic plunge in public exchange rates from 29:1 
to as low as 15:1 overnight. However a Russian government source told FTW this morning 
that  rates on MICEX (The Moscow International Currency Exchange) have remained 
stable. In early trading the Russian stock exchange lost 5% of its value.

Asian markets crumbled over night.

As reported by MoneyNet, these are the results of post bombing trading on the A

[CTRL] Fwd: [AL-AWDA-News] Arafat Donates Blood for U.S. Victims Photos






Arafat Donates Blood for U.S. Victims Photos

GAZA (Reuters) - Palestinian President Yasser Arafat (news - web sites)
donated blood Wednesday for the victims of the terror attacks in New York
and Washington while other Palestinians held a vigil in Jerusalem in
sympathy with the United States. ''God bless them,'' Arafat said as
medical staff prepared to draw his blood in Gaza Shifa hospital. Palestinian
officials said his donation would be the start of a blood drive for the
casualties of Tuesday's attacks.

It was unclear if arrangements had been made to transfer the blood from
Gaza and the West Bank to the United States. Thousands of Israelis donated
blood Wednesday, health officials said.

Dozens of Palestinian men, women and children gathered in front of the
U.S. Consulate in East Jerusalem, lighting candles and placing flowers along
its walls.

Some of the placards they carried read: ``Terror is our common enemy'' and
``We are victims too.''

Tuesday, some in the West Bank city of Nablus and Arab East Jerusalem
rejoiced publicly after hijacked planes slammed into the World Trade
Center and the Pentagon (news - web sites).

Palestinian lawmaker Hanan Ashrawi told a news conference the celebrations
were ``misguided'' and ``aberrations'' motivated by a feeling among
Palestinians that they have been victims of U.S. backing for Israel.

At least 569 Palestinians and 165 Israelis have been killed since a
Palestinian uprising against Israeli occupation began last September after
peace talks stalled.

Israel has used U.S.-made weapons, including F-16 warplanes and Apache
helicopters, in some of the fighting.

HORROR MOVIE

Many Palestinians spent a sleepless night glued to television sets as they
followed the developments in New York and Washington.

``I thought I was watching a Hollywood horror movie...I couldn't believe
my eyes,'' Mohammad Khaled, 20, a student in Ramallah in the West Bank, told
Reuters.

``We the Palestinians are human beings and we don't celebrate when others
are mourning,'' 42-year-old housewife Amal Qassem told Reuters from
Bethlehem.

``Although Israel hits us every day with American Apache helicopters and
uses American weapons to kill our people, we send our condolences to the
families of the victims,'' she said.

Arafat condemned the attacks as a ``terrible act'' Tuesday and said he
would help track down those responsible if asked by the Americans.

Palestinians have slammed the United States, alleging bias toward Israel
in the Middle East conflict. They have burned U.S. flags during the nearly
year-old revolt.

TRAGEDY SHOULD NOT BE EXPLOITED

Many who spoke to Reuters Wednesday said they feared Israel would exploit
the events in the United States to portray the Arabs and Muslims as
``terrorists.''

Arafat delayed a planned visit to Syria Wednesday in the aftermath of the
attacks. Palestinian officials said he put on hold all plans and meetings
and his office was monitoring developments with concern.

For some Palestinian officials the attacks dealt a heavy blow to hopes for
direct U.S. involvement to end the bloodshed and revive the peace process.

``Of course we have differences with the Americans because America
supports Israel but we do not accept this tragedy against the Americans. This is a 
terrible terrorist act,'' said Nadia Hamadan, 33, from Nablus.

Palestinian analyst Ghassan al-Khatib said the ``human tragedy'' in the
United States should not be exploited for political gains by making
Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims look like the ``bad guys.''


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[CTRL] Terror At Home- The Price Of Hegemony

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2001/09/12/14980.html



Pravda.RU:Main:More in detail   

17:48 2001-09-12

JUSTIN RAIMONDO: TERROR AT HOME - THE PRICE OF HEGEMONY

The World Trade Center – monument of the New York business community, 
towering over downtown Manhattan like twin silver phalli pointed at heaven – 
is but a pile of smoldering rubble. Crashing down along with this symbol of 
capitalism, modernity, and civilization is the overweening hubris of a 
government – and a people – who thought themselves immune. It is the 
doctrine of "American exceptionalism," the theory that the US – blessed by 
Providence and released from the travails faced by other nations – is immune, 
exempt not only from the rules that govern and limit the powers of other 
nations, but also from history itself. For history – and not only history but 
physics – tells us that for every action there is an equal and opposite 
reaction. No one is immune, and this is the meaning of the horrific events 
unfolding before our eyes. 

Let's reiterate what has happened: in a coordinated operation that involved 
hijacking a plane from Boston, two aircraft dove into the World Trade Center, 
leveling both buildings and (probably) killing and injuring thousands. Not 
only that, but in Washington, D.C., the Pentagon itself was reportedly under 
attack, with at least one explosion in the area: also the US State Department 
is the scene of yet more high drama, as it too is rocked by explosions in the 
area and evacuated. It was a strange sight indeed to see an F-16 jet fighter 
plane patrolling the skies above New York City and the announcer's voice 
intoning in a sepulchral voice that the primary election scheduled for this 
morning in New York has been canceled. 

Suddenly, Americans wake up one day to find that they are living in a Third 
World country. Would anybody be surprised to learn that all civil liberties 
have been suspended, and martial law declared. What is going on? 

What's going on is this: the war is coming home. The war fought by America 
and its chief Middle East ally against the Palestinian uprising has moved 
from the street of Gaza to the boulevards of the imperial metropolis. What 
Americans are facing, now, is what the Israelis face only a daily basis. For 
us, these attacks are a horror of monumental proportions, something so out of 
the ordinary that to call it ‘unusual' would be something of an 
understatement: for the Israelis, this is a way of life. 

The Israelis recently had an election in which they made a decision: they 
would rather live this way than give in to the Palestinians' demands. They 
elected Ariel Sharon, an Israeli hawk, who vowed to take a tough line against 
the intifada. The Palestinian response has been relentless: a vicious all-out 
war fought by suicide-bombers targeting civilians. They voted for it, they 
knew what they were getting into, and they have steeled themselves to endure 
it. The question that poses itself almost automatically is: when did we vote 
for it? 

The reappearance of kamikaze planes diving into American targets just a few 
days after V-J ("Victory over Japan") Day should give us pause: the last time 
we faced down and beat such fanaticism was the occasion for a world war in 
which the entire nation was mobilized and militarized, and there was talk of 
canceling a presidential election. Are we willing to do that again? And here 
is a sobering thought…. 

The US mainland was completely unaffected by the last world war: millions 
were killed, but not on our shores. The closest they ever came was when the 
Japanese dropped some hot air balloons over the state of Washington. But not 
this time. In the age of globalization, a world war means that everybody's 
back yard is a potential battlefield. 

A common word we hear in foreign policy circles is "hegemonism." We stand at 
the apex of power, and the French have even invented a special term for the 
hubristic heights of the American Imperium: they call us the hyperpower. It 
was coined to describe a power outside human history, outside the ordinary 
rules and conditions attached to human existence, a power without parallel or 
precedent. We were all about actions, and not about consequences: unlike the 
empires of the past, America was thought to be exempt from any possible 
reaction to its imperial edicts. Now we know it isn't true: too bad we had to 
learn the hard way.

[CTRL] Fwd: PHARISEE WATCH: Day911, Why Did They?






DAY911
THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND PENTAGON DEVASTATION

The people who died and were injured on 9/11/2001 (Day911) were of every race and 
religion, including Jews and Arabs.  Who could be without sympathy for the victims and 
their families?  We are already learning of acts of heroism, courage and sacrifice 
similar to those that took place on the Titanic.  We salute the many brave firemen and 
other rescue workers who must have known how great the risk was when they entered the 
damaged structures, putting their duty ahead of their lives.

Our purpose at We Hold These Truths is to place the guilt squarely on the guilty.  
Only if we do that can we prevent a recurrence in some other place and some other way. 
 The only alternative to our proposal is a police state in which all must surrender 
freedom in exchange for protection from an ever larger government.  We will need an 
armed guard on every plane and a metal detector at every door, and still we will not 
be safe.

If we leave the placing of blame to our Pharisee-controlled media, it will not be the 
last time.  If we leave it to our political leaders, most of whom fear the Israeli 
power structure far more than they fear the voters, we will never know the truth.  Our 
political leaders and media will blame the incident on the fanaticism of others to 
cover up their own fanaticism.

We expect the U.S. political machine to respond immediately with demands for 
retaliation against Arab nations who are Israel's enemies, for it alone has made 
Israel's enemies our enemies.  Now, for the first time, we American civilians are 
paying the price for our government's policies and actions.  Because other nations 
consider our government to be the world's bully, America faces the worst economic 
crisis in 70 years.

The cause of the Day911 destruction is the bullying, war-making tactics of those who 
control our own government toward multiple small and frail independent Arab states, 
including Palestine and Iraq.  Some, but not all, Palestinians hate America's 
government because they have every reason to do so--our leaders openly support 
Israel's military occupation of Palestine.  Palestinian civilians have died every week 
of the year for 52 years!  In the last year, Palestinians have seen about 500 of their 
civilians killed by Israelis using American weapons, including Abrams tanks, Apache 
helicopters and US sniper rifles.

The American taxpayers have provided almost $100 billion in documented direct foreign 
aid to Israel--about $4,000 for every Jewish man, woman and child in the Israel.  In 
contrast, American foreign aid to Egypt, the second biggest recipient, is about $50.00 
per Egyptian annually--the rest of the world gets much less--and Palestinian aid is 
Zero.  Palestinians know it is American money that is killing them.

Some, but not all, Iraqis hate America because eleven years after the Gulf War was 
supposed to have ended, we continue to starve and bomb their children.  The US bombed 
Iraq the day before the fateful Day911, inflicting more casualties.  Some other 
Islamic states hate us because they think they will be next on our hit list.  Our 
leaders have helped to destroy one Muslim country after another, as we have detailed 
in past reports and will continue to do.

Except for the American people, the entire world knows about America's secret war on 
Israel's enemies.  While We Hold These Truths does not often agree with the United 
Nations, we do agree with its broadly-supported efforts to declare that "Zionism is 
Racism."  Even delegates from non-Muslim countries voted for that UN resolution, and 
many now appear to also hate our government, because nobody can stomach a bully.

Why were a dozen or more young men willing to dash themselves to death against our 
concrete and steel banking centers on Day911?  Why did others willingly blow 
themselves to bits to punch a hole in the Warship USS Cole?

The international banks that office in NYC are among those who fund the wars, and 
Arabs know it.  Arab and Islamic states believe they have been impoverished by 
internationalist Israeli-Patriot bankers, while being murdered by the Pentagon based 
Warmakers who control our government.  They believe this because the record is clear 
that the acts of the Bankers and the Warmakers have combined to destroy Afghanistan, 
Iraq and Palestine with Israeli personnel and US weapons; Iran by US support for Iraq 
in an eight-year war against Iran; Kosovo and Bosnia, where graves are still being 
found; and Somalia, Sudan, Libya, Algeria, Chechnya, Indonesia and more.  US also 
bombed Serbia for 80 days.  Other non-Muslim victims have included Rhodesia, South 
Africa, Nicaragua, Haiti, Panama and more.

Some of these countries have been bombed, some have been starved, and some have been 
ruined by US economic sanctions such as those that exist against at least four of 
them, or by other means of destruction.  You can bet every one of the dozen or s

[CTRL] Tragedy Provokes Carnivore- Hotmail,Others Targeted

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,46747,00.html



Anti-Attack Feds Push Carnivore
By Declan McCullagh ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
2:00 a.m. Sep. 12, 2001 PDT

WASHINGTON -- Federal police are reportedly increasing Internet surveillance
after Tuesday's deadly attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Just hours after three airplanes smashed into the buildings in what some U.S.
legislators have dubbed a second Pearl Harbor, FBI agents began to visit
Web-based, e-mail firms and network providers,according to engineers at those
companies who spoke on condition of anonymity.

An administrator at one major network service provider said that FBI agents
showed up at his workplace on Tuesday "with a couple of Carnivores,
requesting permission to place them in our core, alongwith offers to actually
pay for circuits and costs."

Microsoft's Hotmail service has also been the target of increased federal
attention, according to an engineer who works there.

"Hotmail officials have been receiving calls from the San Francisco FBI
office since mid-(Tuesday) morning and are cooperating with their expedited
requests for information about a few specific accounts," the person said.
"Most of the account names start with the word 'Allah'and contain messages in
Arabic."

[CTRL] Warning Of Terrorism The Media Won't Address

The Warnings Of Terrorism The Media Won't Address
Joe Sobran Being His Awful "Paleo" Self ;-D9/12/01 3:30:33 PM

Joe SobranCommentary -- Sharon’s War on Terrorism

August 28, 2001 

You can believe that Zionism is racism, that the state of Israel is 
tyrannical, 
that the Palestinians have been deeply wronged, that armed resistance against 
the Jewish state is entirely justified, and much else. 

But however deeply you believe all this, you still have to be horrified when 
a 
bomb in a pizza joint kills 20 people. “Terrorism” is a feeble and 
inadequate 
word for such a sickening act. And there have been too many such acts. 

In response, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has announced and begun to execute a 
policy of state assassination, killing suspected instigators of terrorism. No 
arrests, no trials, no formalities or niceties. Israeli forces — nobody is 
calling them “death squads,” for some reason — just single out those the 
government decides to hold responsible for terrorism and kill them. Monday 
they 
fired missiles into the office of the Popular Front for the Liberation of 
Palestine and killed Mustafa Zibri, a senior Palestinian leader. 

Such discretionary killing by a state is obviously troubling. One reason for 
holding trials is to ensure justice for the accused; another is to present 
evidence to assure the public that the government is not acting arbitrarily. 
This is especially important when the government considers itself at war with 
a 
whole ethnic group, as Sharon’s government does. 

Sharon has few scruples when it comes to non-Jews. He considers that the 
disputed land of Israel/Palestine belongs exclusively to Jews and he has 
never 
said what rights, if any, the Palestinians have. He feels justified in doing 
whatever is necessary to consolidate Jewish power over the land claimed by 
Israel, including the occupied territories. He neither recognizes Palestinian 
rights nor admits limits on Jewish rights. 

It was predictable, then, that he would react with little restraint to the 
recent atrocities. His defenders, even in the American press, say he has no 
choice but to target suspected terrorist leaders for death, even if innocent 
people are killed in the process. The trouble is that for Sharon and his 
defenders suspected terrorist leaders is a very broad category. 

By their logic, Yasser Arafat, head of the Palestinian Authority, would 
qualify. They hold him responsible for the atrocities. There is no evidence 
that he favors these acts or could control them if he wanted to, since many 
Palestinian militants despise him as a quisling and homemade explosives used 
by 
suicide bombers are beyond his reach. But who’s splitting hairs? In his own 
mind, and by the logic of his partisans, Sharon would be fully justified in 
killing Arafat himself. 

Is Sharon really trying to stop terrorism, or is he using terrorism as an 
excuse for killing off the Palestinian leadership? Given his ideology and his 
record, we are entitled to suspect that he sees an opportunity to rid himself 
of his enemies without having to justify himself in court. War nearly always 
serves as an occasion for serious expansions of state power and the 
destruction 
of legal protections. 

A further problem is that these state assassinations aren’t being enacted 
with 
homemade bombs; they employ American-made missiles, jets, helicopters, and 
other weapons, which are supposed to be used only for defense against foreign 
attack. When Sharon attacks his enemies, he makes still more enemies for this 
country. 

This is why American interests are at stake in the endless Middle East 
conflict. The United States is Israel’s chief benefactor; it doesn’t follow 
that Israel is a “reliable ally” of the United States, as its partisans 
claim. 

Yet American politicians are rarely candid about the stakes for this country. 
They may sometimes shake their heads over Israeli “excesses” and even murmur 
about Palestinian rights, but they almost never discuss the price the United 
States pays in international hostility, even when Americans become the 
targets 
of terrorism. 

Israel’s journalistic “amen corner” here unremittingly defends its harshest 
treatment of Palestinians and its military strikes against its neighbors. 
Even 
if all these acts were morally justifiable, the question would remain: What’s 
in it for America? Why should we be enmeshed in a bitter ethnic struggle on 
the 
other side of the globe? 

The United States has sacrificed its interests and betrayed its principles in 
its support of the state of Israel. The policy may be bad for the country, 
but 
it seems to be lucrative for our politicians. 

Joseph Sobran
Libertarian Socialist News
Post Office Box 12244
Silver Spring, MD 20908

Re: [CTRL] Woe to Ariel?


-Caveat Lector-

Dear Public Image:

You Zionist pig flag is showing.

Saba

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Fwd: Isaiah, Chapter 30


It is said Timothy McVeigh avenged the deaths of the children at WACO -
I left out an important part of symbolism re the fiery FLYING
SERPENT...

Flying Serpents?   Planes loaded for bear maybe..

For the flag that David Koresh flew, was the FIERY FLYING SERPENT FLAG.

Now we all know of symbolism and this one genleman on list wrote well of
the masonic symbolism much of which I do not yet understand not being
well versed in "geometry", etc.

But this Egyptian connection - the earth swalled up "kore(sh" as it did
Koreas he revealed the secrets of the 7 seals being a magic number
to some.

So we see here in Isaiah (29 and 30 are keyed to the flying suicide
serpents - didn't Clinton say "The Davidians murdered themselves".

Isaiah 30 vs. 25and there shall be upon every high mountain and upon
every high hill rivers and streams of waters in the days of the great
slaughter (waters hot breath of the Lord).WHEN THE TOWERS FALL.

At the Olympics this Rex Jewell was railroaded as the mad bomber - who
placed a bomb outside of the "Communication Tower"..I wondered about
the term tower, for it was virtually a cardboard impromptu building
called the Center - as the World Trade Center.

Who puts the names "tower" to these buildings?  For, the biblical
connotations are somewhat horrific.

So we see the Flying Serpent Flag of David Kore(sh) whom some believed
to be the Messiah out of what was it, Persia - to dowith ancient Cypres
for I forget.

Might Add  the guy accused of placing virus on this list
Andrew98XX..well he has a story written under his name which I could
not pull up to do with a woman who sewed the Fiery Flying Serpent Flag,
for David Kore(sh).

Stop and think about this for symbolism and then come back to
reality..

Huge planes, FLYING Serpents exploding into fire - Kamakaze they
reported loved their job because when the plane hit the gasoline fueled
the fire...causing more deaths.

I am angry too as is Edward for I keep thinking of the US Liberty and
the Israeli napalming this great ship while our men on board lay dying
or dead -

Fiery Serpents?   Timothy McVeigh with the "farmers" mentioned in Isaiah
29, think it was..resembled the psalm of the Zionist Herzi

For these assassins are using the King James Bible for a communication
and a code; they meet in motels and hotelsthey have learned to fly.

And again now there is an alleged "Egyptian" connection - but it was the
Israelis who bombed the USS Liberty - not the Egyptians - and that is
another act.

Tonight on TV then one man obvioiusly a Zionist on Fox said "hey this
might be the leverage we needed" to murder more Palestinians?   Smiling
children, like the little children of Waco.

Why did some believe Kore(sh) flew the Flag of the Star of David when it
was proven to be the FLYING SERPENT FLAGS.

Rememer Flying Tigers.see Hells Fire bombs and wonder

Were these pilots patterned after Shinto Nationalists - and this was the
revenge of tahe Flying Serpent - did they have a flag too.

Why is it here again, we have symbolism which means something to
someone.

Saba

Isaiah, Chapter 30

30:1
Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but
not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that
they may add sin to sin:
30:2
That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at my mouth; to
strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the
shadow of Egypt!
30:3
Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your shame, and the trust in
the shadow of Egypt your confusion.
30:4
For his princes were at Zoan, and his ambassadors came to Hanes.
30:5
They were all ashamed of a people that could not profit them, nor be an
help nor profit, but a shame, and also a reproach.

30:6
The burden of the beasts of the south: into the land of trouble and
anguish, from whence come the young and old lion, the viper and fiery
flying serpent, they will carry their riches upon the shoulders of young
asses, and their treasures upon the bunches of camels, to a people that
shall not profit them.

30:7
For the Egyptians shall help in vain, and to no purpose: therefore have
I cried concerning this, Their strength is to sit still.
30:8
Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it
may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
30:9
That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not
hear the law of the LORD:
30:10
Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto
us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:



30:25
And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill,
rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the
towers fall.


So here we have the tall Towers which fall resembling the Tall Towers in
the Tarot Cards?   They never did catch those Tarot Card Assassins...

So regardless, here is the psalm which I call Herzi's Psalm, his
favorite - the fo

Re: [CTRL] Woe to Ariel?

2001-09-12 Thread The Public Image

-Caveat Lector-

J2, you're the man. :)

The Public Image

--- "Nurev Ind." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Q: What do you get when you mix a psychotic bitch
> with superstitious drivel?
>
> A: See below
>
> J2

__
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directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Fwd: I wish you all could have savored this!






Dear Bully Busters,

Please go to www.fox6news.com (San Diego) and thank them
for allowing Dr. Hamod ***FOUR HOURS*** of interview time
on their program. It was incredibly refreshing. Dr. Hamod
is the former Director of the US Islamic Center in
Washington DC and a Lebanese American Muslim.

In yesterdays coverage, Dr. Hamod went head to head with
David Horowitz and I thought for sure that he would never
be invited back. Instead, Horowitz was nowhere to be seen
today and Dr. Hamod was able to speak freely and openly. He
discussed the USS Cole, the Zionist fanaticism in Israel,
he explained the bias in our mediait was like having a
Truth Seeking Missile read aloud on local television. I sat
here with my mouth open, waiting for the crew to throw him
off the stage, but they were courteous, interested and open
minded.

Dr. Hamod is a brilliant spokesman for both the Arab
American community and all Americans who want to get to the
bottom of this tragedy. I have never seen such openness in
our press. They even showed videos of Israeli soldiers
grinning as they shoot at Palestinian rock throwers, and
allowed Dr. Hamod to provide commentary.

Please write to thank them!

MacKenzie

Re: [CTRL] Kris and Listers. Lift all message restrictions.

In a message dated 9/12/01 9:37:25 AM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


I would like all message restrictions lifted for the duration of the crisis.
If others agree, let's do it.

7 per day from you Zev is more than enough!!

Bill.

Re: [CTRL] Kmart Removes Guns From Stores (fwd)

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, flw wrote:
>>   Kmart Removes Guns From Stores
>
>Yeah that's the ticket! Guess that will teach those
>A-Rab terrorists!

I think that what they are afraid of are some hotheads deciding they're
going to get even by buying a few rifles and ammo and then go take
potshots at the local mosque in their neighborhood, or the Islamic family
that lives down the street...

June

===
Check out Alternative Kite Radio at
http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com

Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth)
Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth)
Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (it's always summer somewhere)
Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (everyday's a holiday)
===

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] What now?

2001-09-12 Thread thew


-Caveat Lector-

unless we start shooting down every plane that veers off course, a missile
defense plan wont do much in this situation
-- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -
He who does not prefer exile to slavery is not free by any measure of
freedom, truth and duty.

   Kahil Gibran, Spirits Rebellious



NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

> From: Bill Richer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:05:24 EDT
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [CTRL] What now?
>
> Build a missile-defense system as quickly as possible  no matter what the
> cost, no matter what the sacrifice. Maybe now people will understand the
> threats they face in a hostile world.

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] Al-Qaida Tops Suspect List


-Caveat Lector-

WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Peace at any cost is a Prelude to War!


S T R A T F O R

THE GLOBAL INTELLIGENCE COMPANY

http://www.stratfor.com
___

  11 September 2001

Al-Qaida Tops Suspect List

1630 GMT, 010911

Osama bin Laden's organization , Al Qaida, is the prime suspect
in the spate of attacks against the United States. Based in
Afghanistan, the group has been linked to a series of attacks on
U.S. assets around the world and has repeatedly threatened to
strike the United States within its own borders.

An umbrella organization with an operational reach that stretches
around the globe, Al-Qaida has been extremely successful at
maintaining a high level of security and secrecy.

Despite the intelligence efforts of several world powers, bin
Laden's organization has continued to support or facilitate acts
of international terrorism. No nation has successfully penetrated
the organization.

This is partly due to the fact that Al-Qaida operates as an
umbrella group supporting a host of cells around the world. The
organization develops autonomous cells capable of operating
individually without a central command. Additionally, Al-Qaida
coordinates operations and activities with various other militant
organizations around the world. The hierarchy of the
relationships remains unknown.

Bin Laden himsefl has repeatedly threatened acts of terrorism
against the United States, and Al-Qaida was pinpointed in the
attacks on the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998.

Bin Laden, a Saudi, has operated from Afghanistan for several
years. The Taliban, a radical Muslim authority that rules most of
Afghanistan, has denied responsibility for the attacks on New
York City and Washington, D.C.
___


*COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance with Title 17 U. S. C. Section 107,
any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use
without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Terrorism on Trial (Daniel Pipes and Steven Emerson) July, ...

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Samantha L. wrote:
>  I hadn't heard about that but last night, a young woman who worked in one
>of the towers said the door to the stairwell was locked and they wasted ten
>minutes trying to find a key or another way out.  Those were a precious ten
>minutes, she said, and many more lives could have been saved.  She herself
>barely made it because she caught the cloud of dust on the way out, and had
>an asthma attack.  If stairs are the only emergency exits, why in the hell
>would their doors be locked?

Security, to keep outsiders from entering an office by 'the back way'.
Years ago I worked for a major bank in my area, in its headquarters which
was a 17-story skyscraper...the banking area that was open to the public
was on the ground floor, the rest of the building was used for the bank's
offices.

We started having problems with thiefs sneaking in via the stairwells and
coming into offices to snatch pocketbooks, and on more than one occasion
a pervert was found lurking in a ladies room on an upper floor, again
accessed by just walking up the stairwell and exiting on a certain floor,
and walking into the unlocked restroom...

So the stairwell doors were locked, so that no one could exit on any
floor once they were in the stairwell, the only exit was on the ground
floor.  But they DID put emergency bars on the stairwell doors on the
office side of the door, so that one could hit the emergency bar, it
would set off an alarm to Emergency Services, and it would open the door
to the stairwell.

My guess is that the locked door at the WTC was probably a misguided
effort along the same lines, an attempt to keep JQ Public from entering
the office via the stairwell.  I wouldn't be surprised to find out that
some of the stairwell exits were blocked with desks, file cabinets, etc.
It happens, people working there get stupid and complacent and figure
they will never have to use that exit (although the bombing 8 years ago
should have given them a wake up call)...but it should have been caught
on the inspection by the fire department which is required to be done
periodically...

June

===
Check out Alternative Kite Radio at
http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com

Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth)
Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth)
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===

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Fwd: BBC UK death toll 'may reach hundreds'





http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_1539000/1539562.stm

Re: [CTRL] Terrorists might have entered U.S. on N.S. ferry

2001-09-12 Thread Yardbird


-Caveat Lector-

The local media here is supposed to be following up this angle but I
haven't heard much except one report on the CBC. There are two ferry
companies operating out of Yarmouth to the US and Canada Customs never
checked vehicles leaving Canada - they only checked vehicles entering
Canada. I don't know how strict or lax US Customs may have been on their
end of the route.

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Bill Richer wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Peace at any cost is a Prelude to War!
>
> Terrorists might have entered U.S. on N.S. ferry
> Ticket stubs seized from rental cars
>
> Wednesday, September 12, 2001
> U.S. authorities are being tight-lipped about a possible Canadian connection
> to attacks on New York and Washington Tuesday.
>
> They are said to be investigating the possibility that at least two of the
> hijackers in the attack on the World Trade Centre came from our side of the
> border.
>
> There's speculation they took a ferry from Yarmouth, N.S. into Maine, then
> flew from Portland to Boston.
>
> It was at Logan airport that they would have boarded one of the planes that
> smashed into the World Trade Center in New York.
>
> A car believed to belong to the hijackers was confiscated in Boston. It
> contained an Arabic language flight manual and a number of ticket stubs,
> including two for the ferry from Yarmouth to Maine.
>
> WCVB-TV, quoting an anonymous source, reported that the suspects purchased
> one-way tickets with cash, arrived late and were Middle Eastern -- red flags
> for security personnel.
>
> Prime Minister Chretien was reluctant to talk about the investigation this
> afternoon, but said police had no new information.
>
> He said right now "security people are looking to find out who these people
> are and where they were coming from.''
>
> The prime minister said the government has no indication they used Canada to
> get into the U.S. But he concedes "it is a possibility.''
>
> A senior government official said the RCMP are co-ordinating the massive
> probe.
>
> The Boston Globe reported that one suspect's luggage contained a copy of the
> Quran, an instructional video on flying commercial airliners and a fuel
> consumption calculator.
>
> Officials caution the information, including raw intelligence, is still
> developing and they won't say if they've asked Canadian authorities for help.
>
> FBI Special Agent Charles Prouty would not confirm the report at a morning
> briefing.
>
> In Portland, a company which sells tickets for a ferry run between Portland
> and Yarmouth, N.S., gave passenger lists to U.S. officials.
>
> Mitch Maclean, president of the company that sells tickets for Scotia Prince
> Ferries, said Wednesday that he's providing information on who was aboard the
> ferry to the U.S. Customs agency.
>
> "We're doing a list for U.S. customs for everybody who has travelled for the
> past 10 days,'' he said.''
>
> He said the company has no idea if the suspects in the terrorist attacks were
> aboard the Scotia Princess. "There are up to 600 people a day coming aboard
> in a pretty fast process every day,'' he said.
>
> MacLean said security has been tightened at the terminal since the attacks.
> "The uncertainty of who caused what has everybody being very cautious.''
>
> Rick Wilson, the manager of the Bay Ferries terminal where passengers buy
> tickets, said his staff haven't noticed anything unusual in the last two
> weeks.
>
> The company checks passports and immigration documents but the passengers
> clear U.S. customs when they arrive in Portland.
>
> Wilson said the passenger lists were handed over early Wednesday morning.
>
> "If the photos (of suspects) were ever supplied my staff may or may not be
> able to pick anything out,'' he said. "We're anticipating lots of changes.
> We've tightened security.''
>
> U.S. attorney Jim Farmer says any statements might jeopardize future
> prosecutions.
>
> The FBI is also developing intelligence linking the suspected attackers to a
> band of Canadian sympathizers of Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden.
>
> Some are thought to be of Algerian origin, and are suspected of planning an
> unsuccessful terrorist attack on U.S. soil during the millennium
> celebrations.
>
>
>
>
> *COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance with Title 17 U. S. C. Section 107,
> any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use
> without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest
> in receiving the included information for nonprofit research and educational
> purposes only.[Ref. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ]
>
> Want to be on our lists?  Write at [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a menu of our lists!
>
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> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its ma

[CTRL] Terrorists might have entered U.S. on N.S. ferry


-Caveat Lector-

WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Peace at any cost is a Prelude to War!

Terrorists might have entered U.S. on N.S. ferry
Ticket stubs seized from rental cars

Wednesday, September 12, 2001
U.S. authorities are being tight-lipped about a possible Canadian connection
to attacks on New York and Washington Tuesday.

They are said to be investigating the possibility that at least two of the
hijackers in the attack on the World Trade Centre came from our side of the
border.

There's speculation they took a ferry from Yarmouth, N.S. into Maine, then
flew from Portland to Boston.

It was at Logan airport that they would have boarded one of the planes that
smashed into the World Trade Center in New York.

A car believed to belong to the hijackers was confiscated in Boston. It
contained an Arabic language flight manual and a number of ticket stubs,
including two for the ferry from Yarmouth to Maine.

WCVB-TV, quoting an anonymous source, reported that the suspects purchased
one-way tickets with cash, arrived late and were Middle Eastern -- red flags
for security personnel.

Prime Minister Chretien was reluctant to talk about the investigation this
afternoon, but said police had no new information.

He said right now "security people are looking to find out who these people
are and where they were coming from.''

The prime minister said the government has no indication they used Canada to
get into the U.S. But he concedes "it is a possibility.''

A senior government official said the RCMP are co-ordinating the massive
probe.

The Boston Globe reported that one suspect's luggage contained a copy of the
Quran, an instructional video on flying commercial airliners and a fuel
consumption calculator.

Officials caution the information, including raw intelligence, is still
developing and they won't say if they've asked Canadian authorities for help.

FBI Special Agent Charles Prouty would not confirm the report at a morning
briefing.

In Portland, a company which sells tickets for a ferry run between Portland
and Yarmouth, N.S., gave passenger lists to U.S. officials.

Mitch Maclean, president of the company that sells tickets for Scotia Prince
Ferries, said Wednesday that he's providing information on who was aboard the
ferry to the U.S. Customs agency.

"We're doing a list for U.S. customs for everybody who has travelled for the
past 10 days,'' he said.''

He said the company has no idea if the suspects in the terrorist attacks were
aboard the Scotia Princess. "There are up to 600 people a day coming aboard
in a pretty fast process every day,'' he said.

MacLean said security has been tightened at the terminal since the attacks.
"The uncertainty of who caused what has everybody being very cautious.''

Rick Wilson, the manager of the Bay Ferries terminal where passengers buy
tickets, said his staff haven't noticed anything unusual in the last two
weeks.

The company checks passports and immigration documents but the passengers
clear U.S. customs when they arrive in Portland.

Wilson said the passenger lists were handed over early Wednesday morning.

"If the photos (of suspects) were ever supplied my staff may or may not be
able to pick anything out,'' he said. "We're anticipating lots of changes.
We've tightened security.''

U.S. attorney Jim Farmer says any statements might jeopardize future
prosecutions.

The FBI is also developing intelligence linking the suspected attackers to a
band of Canadian sympathizers of Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden.

Some are thought to be of Algerian origin, and are suspected of planning an
unsuccessful terrorist attack on U.S. soil during the millennium
celebrations.




*COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance with Title 17 U. S. C. Section 107,
any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use
without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest
in receiving the included information for nonprofit research and educational
purposes only.[Ref. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ]

Want to be on our lists?  Write at [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a menu of our lists!

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"

[CTRL] What now?


-Caveat Lector-

WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Peace at any cost is a Prelude to War!

What now?

By
Joseph Farah

--

--


"But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I
will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries."
â Exodus 23:22

Â© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com


The day after the Pearl Harbor attack, hundreds of thousands of young
American men responded to a call from President Roosevelt to rally against an
enemy that attacked the United States.

While that enemy had a clear address â Japan, the enemy in 2001 is a little
more ambiguous, a little more doubtful, a little more vague.

Yet, make no mistake about it, there is an enemy out there â a very real and
dangerous enemy that can strike the vulnerable United States at will in ways
few Americans have ever imagined.

President Bush needs to rally Americans to fight that enemy today â fight
them on the land, in the air and on the sea, as Winston Churchill once
pledged. We need to fight them in the fields, fight them in the streets.

This is war, America. I know you haven't seen it for a long time. I know many
Americans never thought it would happen again. I know this generation has
grown complacent, thinking their lives would never really change or be
disrupted like this.

And Bush needs to put this in perspective. He needs to pull people together,
help them set their priorities, get them on a war-footing, prepare them for
combat â physical and spiritual combat.

That's a tall order for a man not known for his inspiring rhetoric. Pray he
rises to the occasion.

Here's what Bush should rally us to do as a nation:



Build a missile-defense system as quickly as possible â no matter what the
cost, no matter what the sacrifice. Maybe now people will understand the
threats they face in a hostile world.

Cut off all foreign aid to Yasser Arafat and his Palestine Authority, which,
despite their attempt to distance themselves from these attacks, bears at
least some responsibility.

Take the handcuffs off Ariel Sharon and Israel to respond appropriately to
the terror attacks the Jewish state has endured for the last year.

Achieve energy independence by beginning an aggressive domestic oil-drilling
effort in Alaska and elsewhere, removing all misguided environmental barriers
to this national security necessity.

Repeal all restrictive gun laws so that every law-abiding American can take
part in national defense against this elusive enemy who can strike anywhere,
anytime.

Require every airliner in America to include armed guards on board, require
all crews to be armed and to allow properly permitted passengers to bring
firearms on board as well. Think of the lives that might have been saved if
any one of those four airliners was carrying some appropriately armed crew
members or passengers.

Drop all plans for relaxing controls at our borders and step up rigorous
enforcement of our immigration laws. Amnesty? Forget about it.

Call for a national day of prayer â just as our Founding Fathers would have
done in a time of national emergency.

This is unconventional warfare and it needs to be fought in unconventional
ways â enlisting ordinary Americans in the cause.

It should not be fought with unnecessary restrictions on the lives of
Americans, with infringements of our civil rights and with an abrogation of
the U.S. Constitution.

It's time to teach Americans to be self-reliant again. It's time to recognize
that government can't protect you, can't take care of you, can't save you
from attacks. The best it can do is respond. Only a free people can truly
defend themselves. Police-state tactics will only serve the purposes of the
enemy.

What Bush should not do is retaliate impotently at targets that are not truly
meaningful, not tied directly to the perpetrators, not really the enemy's
vulnerable spots.

Retaliation is not only appropriate, it is a necessity. But the retaliation
has to hurt those responsible. The enemy needs to pay in blood and pain and
real cost. The blows should be devastating and overwhelming â not just
matching the devastation here in the United States, but compounding it
exponentially.

Most of all, what America needs to do is repent of its sin. It needs to
recognize the way it has strayed from the ways of God. It needs to understand
that it is not immortal, not invincible, not impregnable. It needs to believe
that government is not its master, only its servant. It needs to comprehend
that God is sovereign, He is in control and only when we turn to Him will we
be safe, secure and steadfast.




--

--



*COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance with Title 17 U. S. C. Section 107,
any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use
without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest
in rec

Re: [CTRL] Kris and Listers. Lift all message restrictions.

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Kris Millegan wrote:
>daily limit has been raised to 200 and the personal limit to 21.
>
>Please to not abuse.

Thanks.  Speaking for myself, I won't.

June

===
Check out Alternative Kite Radio at
http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com

Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth)
Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth)
Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (it's always summer somewhere)
Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (everyday's a holiday)
===

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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[CTRL] Feds investigating possible terrorist-attack links in Florida


-Caveat Lector-

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Feds investigating possible terrorist-attack links in Florida
Herald Staff and Wire Reports

Federal authorities are focusing on South Florida for part of the mammoth
manhunt for people responsible for the terrorist attacks on the World Trade
Center and the Pentagon.


--

--



One of the terrorists' air tickets was confirmed to have been purchased at
Miami International Airport, said a source familiar with the airport. The
ticket was on American's or United's ill-fated Boston to Los Angeles flight.

Members of the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force also obtained search warrants
that were served last night in Broward County. Federal and local sources said
authorities developed information based on passenger manifests from the four
commercial flights that crashed Tuesday in New York, Washington and 80 miles
southeast of Pittsburgh.

FBI agents investigating the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington
told a southwest Florida man that two men who stayed with him while getting
flight training last year were involved in Tuesday's attacks on the World
Trade Center, the man said. The two men were carrying Saudi passports, United
Arab Emirates state TV reported Wednesday.

Charlie Voss, a former employee at Huffman Aviation in Venice, said FBI
agents who interviewed him at his home told him that authorities found a car
at Boston's Logan Airport registered to the two men.

"They informed us individuals who had crossed our path were involved
yesterday with the airplane in the tragedy at the World Trade Center," Voss
said.

Law enforcement sources said one of the subjects is Mohammed Atta, 33, whose
driver's license comes back to a Coral Springs address. Authorities are
searching for a red Grand Prix with Florida plates D79 DDV registered to Atta
at an address in Venice in Sarasota County and a tan Oldsmobile Alero with
Florida plates UEP 54N.

He said he knew the other man only by the name of Marwan.

Shortly after 12:30 a.m. Wednesday, the FBI in Miami issued a national
bulletin for law enforcement agencies to be on the lookout for two cars. The
bulletin did not mention whether the vehicles were linked to Tuesday's
attacks.

Records with the Florida Division of Motor Vehicles show that one of the
vehicles the FBI was pursuing -- a 1989 red Pontiac -- was registered to
Atta. He previously had a driver's license in Egypt, state records show.

In Coral Springs, the FBI was at an apartment complex that Atta listed as his
last address with the motor vehicle division.

"We were out there with the FBI late last night at that location," said Coral
Springs Police Sgt. Rich Nicorvo. He said the FBI was at the address for at
least one hour.

Tony Amos, the manager of Shuckums restaurant in Hollywood, said Wednesday
that FBI agents showed photos of two men to employees of the restaurant
Tuesday night.

The photos had signatures on the bottom, Amos said. Amos was able to identify
the photo of a man whose first name was signed Mohamed, but he could not make
out the last name.

Amos said a waitress and bartender identified both men as customers who ate
dinner at the restaurant some time last week.

Amos said the man identified as Mohamed gave him some trouble when the dinner
bill came. Amos said he told the man to be thruthful if he didn't have enough
money to pay the bill.

"The guy said, 'I can afford to pay the bill. I'm an airline pilot,'" Amos
said.

Agents were conducting interviews and sought search warrants in southern
Florida and in Daytona Beach in central Florida amid evidence that suspected
sympathizers of the accused terrorist were operating in the area, officials
said.

"We are covering leads all over the country and this is one of the many we
are covering," said Brian Kensel, an FBI spokesman in Tampa.

Daytona Beach Police towed what was termed a suspicious car from a storage
area near the Daytona Beach Airport. It had a picture of what some people in
the storage area said contained a likeness of Osama bin Laden. That was
unconfirmed by mid-morning.

The car was taken to an impound lot where it was being searched Wednesday
morning, according to police spokesman Al Tolley. The car was towed to Holly
Hill.

Embry-Riddle officials met with the media and stated they would not discuss
the backgrounds of any of their students.

Embry-Riddle, one of the world's most premier professional pilot training
schools, has about 5,000 students -- about 15 percent of which are foreign. A
significant majority would have had training in a jet simulator, the
spokesman said.

Spokeswoman Lisa Ledewitz said one out of every four commercial airline
pilots was trained at Embry-Riddle. Students train in single-engine planes
and until last December the school used a Boeing 737 simulator.

"We are suffering like the rest of the country," Ledewitz said. She said all

[CTRL] FBI Storms Hotel in Boston


-Caveat Lector-

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FBI Storms Hotel in Boston

BOSTON (AP) - A heavily armed FBI (news - web sites) team searching for
suspects in the terrorism attacks in New York and Washington stormed a Boston
hotel Wednesday. In nearby Providence, R.I., a train was searched and one man
was led away in handcuffs.

Guests were ordered to evacuate the 36-story Westin Hotel in the Back Bay
section, according to a guest leaving the hotel who declined to give his
name.

Agents wearing bulletproof vests and carrying shields were seen bringing
fiber-optic equipment into the hotel.

As a large crowd gathered outside, one person was seen taken out of the hotel
and put in a van, but a law enforcement official said said no one connected
to the terror attacks had been arrested.

``SWAT teams were all around holding machine guns,'' said witness R.J. Ryan,
who joined hundreds of other onlookers.

``They put somebody in the van. Then they started moving everybody.''

Meanwhile, other officers converged on the Park Inn at Chestnut Hill in
Newton, a Boston suburb. Newton police officer Russ Adam said the FBI was
conducting an investigation at the hotel.

A law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity said two hotel
rooms in the Boston area believed to have been used in the attacks were
searched. While no arrests were made in connection with the attacks,
searchers did find information with a link to a name on the manifest of one
of the hijacked flights, the source said.

In Providence, R.I., authorities stopped an Amtrak train that had come from
Boston, ordered off passengers, and went on board. WJAR-TV said three people
were taken off the train and questioned. An Associated Press reporter saw a
man taken in handcuffs from the train station at about 3:20 p.m.

Providence Mayor Vincent Cianci Jr. said police told him they were looking
for up to four suspects who had eluded authorities in Boston, some 40 miles
from Providence.

It was not immediately clear that the train sweep was connected to the
terrorist attacks. Two of the planes that were hijacked and crashed Tuesday
had taken off from Boston.

An answering machine at the FBI office said officials would be offering no
comment on the investigation.

Three ambulances and a police car were stationed outside the Westin hotel as
a crowd of onlookers gathered there. WHDH-TV reported that police officers
returned repeatedly to a police truck outside to retrieve fiber-optic
equipment, which can be slipped under doors to see inside rooms.

WHDH reported the officers used the equipment to check under room doors on
the hotel's 16th floor.

The hotel has more than 800 rooms, according to a Web site.

-

Associated Press Writer John Solomon in Washington contributed to this
report.




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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Terrorism on Trial (Daniel Pipes and Steven Emerson) July, 2001

2001-09-12 Thread c.

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Amelia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 7:47 PM
Subject: [CTRL] Fwd: Terrorism on Trial (Daniel Pipes and Steven Emerson)
July, 2001

Compare
> and contrast that to soccer games where they trample each other to
> death!

be extremely careful with the accuracy of your sources, amelia, when you
deny that it is a case of an american claiming to be better at dealing with
emergancies than... a european? or who? american soccer fans?
do you have an incident in mind? i can think of two you may be mistakenly
refering to... cause i just wanna vomit on ya when i read the above.
am i wrong to jump to conclusions about your meaning? you cannot really be
so sick as to gloat about how great and better you americans are in a tragic
situation than other nationalities. mistakenly too... well, there's a
surprise.
but, please, show me i am mistaken.

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[CTRL] U.N. Pulls Staffers From Afghanistan


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Wish UN would pull out of USA too! - Bill

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U.N. Pulls Staffers From Afghanistan


By KATHY GANNON
Associated Press Writer

September 12, 2001, 10:05 AM EDT


KABUL, Afghanistan -- Dozens of U.N. employees evacuated the Afghan capital
Wednesday following the terrorist attacks in the United States. The mothers
of two jailed Americans prepared to leave as well.

The United Nations ordered all 80 of its employees out of Afghanistan,
sending emergency flights to Kabul to transport the workers to neighboring
Pakistan. Many left Wednesday and the rest are to leave Thursday, U.N.
officials in Kabul said.

Dozens of other employees of international aid organizations also left.
Twelve of the International Red Cross's 70 employees in Afghanistan have
evacuated, said Mario Musa, a spokesman for the Red Cross in Kabul.

The employees were pulled out because of fears of a retaliatory strike by the
United States to punish this Central Asian nation for harboring suspected
terrorist Osama bin Laden, said several aid workers who spoke on condition of
anonymity.

In 1998, the United States attacked Afghanistan with a volley of Tomahawk
cruise missiles after suspecting bin Laden of masterminding the bombings of
two U.S. embassies in Africa.

About 20 men, mostly Pakistani militants, were killed in the attack on
eastern Afghanistan, but bin Laden escaped. An Italian U.N. worker was killed
and two other expatriate aid workers injured in the angry demonstrations in
Kabul that followed.

On Wednesday, U.N. spokeswoman Marie Heuze said in Geneva that the
withdrawals were precautionary, but declined to say whether the United
Nations feared a possible reprisal in Afghanistan by the U.S. military.

"We don't know who carried out the attacks yesterday," Heuze said.

The mothers of two Americans, Heather Mercer, 24 and Dayna Curry, 29, on
trial in Afghanistan along with two Australians and six Germans on charges of
preaching Christianity, said they also planned to leave. Mercer's father,
John, said he was staying.

Helmut Landes, consular officer of the German Embassy in Pakistan, and his
Australian colleague, Alastar Adams, were to remain in Kabul. It wasn't
immediately known whether David Donahue, consul-general of the U.S. Embassy
in Pakistan, was leaving.



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[CTRL] Feds say White House, Air Force One targets


-Caveat Lector-

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Feds say White House, Air Force One targets
Officials have evidence Pentagon not original D.C. goal of terrorists

--

--


By Jon Dougherty
Â© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

U.S. officials have said the government has "evidence" that the White House
and Air Force One were both initially targeted by terrorists who hijacked
four airliners Tuesday.

Officials said American Airlines Flight 77, which took off from Dulles
International Airport in Washington, D.C., and was enroute to Los Angeles,
was originally supposed to be flown into the White House, but instead crashed
into the Pentagon about an hour after two other airliners were flown into the
twin towers of the World Trade Center.

ABC News reported that White House spokesman Ari Fleischer made the
statements but did not say how officials know the White House and President
Bush's plane were original targets of terrorist attacks.

Attorney General John Ashcroft also said today that the White House and Air
Force One were original terrorist targets.

Secretary of State Colin Powell, during a news conference today, was asked
about the new information.

"I don't have anything to add to that," Powell said during his briefing.
"I'll let Ari handle that."

Analysts told ABC Fleischer's statements "made a lot of sense" because of the
precision of the other terrorist attacks.

Both planes that struck the twin 110-story World Trade Center towers were
very well-placed to cause the most damage. By comparison, the American
Airlines jet that struck the Pentagon hit a portion of the building under
construction and, hence, lightly populated.

A fourth plane hijacked yesterday â United Airlines Flight 93, from Newark,
N.J., to San Francisco, which crashed about 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh
â was believed headed to the White House as well, according to other
unconfirmed sources.

Meanwhile, congressional leaders receiving attack updates and briefings today
are saying they are being told by administration officials that the attacks
may not be over.




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[CTRL] Evil on display


-Caveat Lector-

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--

--

--

--
Evil on display

By Bill O'Reilly

--

--


The dictionary defines the story for us â evil, adjective: morally bad or
wrong. Causing ruin, injury or pain. So now we know the true nature of
anybody who had anything to do with the terrorist attacks on America. Now we
know. So what do we do about it?

Well, we punish them, of course. And in this case, there will be few if any
who raise questions about insanity, or disease, or trot out the litany of
excuses we often use to defend many evil-doers in our society. America has
become a nation of excuses â many of us look at heinous acts and apply our
own rational standards to the perpetrators. Thus, a person like Andrea Yates
who brutally murdered her five little kids has to be mentally ill and not
responsible. Of course, she's mentally ill. But not responsible? This is
where that kind of thinking breaks down.

In the past the Moslem terrorists who have caused so much destruction and
pain to so many innocent people could, in my opinion, be considered mentally
ill. They believe their god is going to elevate them to paradise for
executing innocent human beings. If that isn't a mental illness, I don't know
what is.

But that doesn't mean these monsters didn't know what they were doing. They
did. They knew they were killing blameless human beings just as Hitler,
Stalin and the other psychopaths of history knew. And for this they have to
be brought to justice. Just because a person has a damaged mind doesn't mean
we don't punish them.

I have seen evil face to face. I sat down across from Joel Steinberg who
brutally tortured and killed his little daughter. Steinberg denied everything
to me but his dead eyes told the true story. His is in prison for life but
more than one person has told me the man is sick and thus should be
"treated."

Evil cannot be "treated" â nor should it be. Evil has to confronted and
destroyed and it matters not why the evil is in play. Society has no
obligation to try to rehabilitate evil. If a person commits acts that cause
pain and destruction, that person must be dealt with harshly.

There are obviously varying degrees of evil but mass terror and murder is at
the top of the list. The terrorists who struck America are modern-day SS men.
They are no different than the concentration-camp butchers and any nation in
the world that harbors them or condones their behavior should be ostracized
whether they produce oil or not.

Some commentators have ascribed the motives of these terrorists as trying to
"demoralize" America. I strongly disagree with that. These people simply
wanted to kill and create mayhem. They know the United States is not going to
change its tenets. They know nothing favorable to their perverted cause will
be forthcoming.

This action was simply a mass assassination. And they used their god as an
excuse. How repulsive is that? How mentally deranged is that? How evil is
that? The world deserves to be rid of killers and those who bring misery to
human beings. Society needs to see evil for what it is and adopt a "zero
tolerance" policy. I could not care less why child killers and terrorists
decide to do what they do. They must be eliminated or banished in chains for
their lifetimes. That is the only "treatment."



--

--



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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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[CTRL] : [CTRL] A Call To All Americans


-Caveat Lector-

LOL, Edward!  I feel the same way but only in a figurative manner.
I must be getting old or something for I just do not have the heart
for bombing people into the stone age when they are already there.
And I am weary of the Oil Wars like the Gulf and all the Balkans.
The trouble is in part our behavior and in part this particular
group that did this.  I would have no qualms about seeing them
brought to justice, briskly!  And Israel is only our friend for
what she can get.  Sharon called a press conference and spoke for
all of 45 seconds.  That is how long it took him to express his
grief.  I do not think we should support Israel in clobbering the
Palestinians.  I do not  think we should starve Iraqi children or
be a bully anywhere in the world.

Maybe isolationism has its merits.  Build up a huge defense and
keep it all to ourselves along with everything else.  Since it now
appears we trained the pilots at Embry Riddle in Florida, do we
bomb
ourselves?  They are now roughing up Arab Americans an calling them
names.  If I lost a love done in the towers, I might want to do
that too.  But lots of them were born here just as we were. They
are innocent an American, too. Especially the kids who have never
known anything else. If we bomb the Afghans, then they will just
hate us and start plotting what they can do.

While people want decisive action, determination, etc.  I wish we
would just take a couple of weeks to think this over before
reacting.  It might prevent doing something for which later we
would be sorry but it would be too late.  Maybe some wise statesman
will come forward with a better solution.  I wonder if anybody will
ever ask the hijackers why they did it.  How about if we give you
10 minutes alone with whomever did it when we catch them with a
whip, a club and an electric shocker?  Also all the families get 30
minutes.  Then innocent people would not suffer.  Would that work?

Now they have a gas leak and there is a danger of more surrounding
buildings collapsing. And as Nessie said, how do we ever know when
this is over?  It will be a long, long time before we feel this can
never happen here again, if ever.

~Amelia~

- Original Message -
From: "Edward Britton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] A Call To All Americans


-Caveat Lector-

Fer:


>You are "pissing", perhaps that s why your words smell so bad.
Your
>thinking is "nazi-style", "mesianic", "rascist".


Today, YES.


>  You act the same way that things you hate.


No, unlike the things I hate at the moment (Arabs=things? Yep, that
works.), WE have the power to put this nonsense to an end for all
time. We
should do precisely that! You, on the other hand, may wish to sit
on your
hands while others blow your citizens to hell.


>Don't be furious when a plane crashes into your house if you act
this way.


OK, just as long as you won't be furious if we lob an h-bomb up Bin
Laden's
ass.

Edward   ><+>

Logic:

(1) The study or practice of the principles of reasoning,
especially of the
structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and
of method
and validity in deductive reasoning.

(2) A means of terrifying liberals.

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==
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] A Call To All Americans


-Caveat Lector-

Mike:


>You realize of course that there are Arab-Americans?


Yes. I also see and accept my desire to see the middle east disappear for
what it is.


>That for many Americans the Koran is the word of their religion.


OK, I'll let them have their religious texts--one page at a time--just
after I smear  them 'round my bung-hole. That's pretty much what the
animals of the same religion did to the most basic tenets of my religion
and to civilization in general yesterday.


>If you love America, and what it stands for,
>you'll take a step back and think about what you are saying.


I don't like what I'm saying. I find it nearly as repulsive as the act
itself. As I said in another post, I might feel completely different
tomorrow. To a degree, if not totally, those on the list who have contested
my opinions are correct, but when I watch at least five if not ten thousand
members of "my tribe" killed, correctness is irrelevant. In a real sense,
killing these animals now may, just may, prevent us all from becoming like
them in the future. Our response must be so terrible, so outright
horrendous that no other human being will ever dare commit another atrocity
of this kind again.


Edward   ><+>

Logic:

(1) The study or practice of the principles of reasoning, especially of the
structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method
and validity in deductive reasoning.

(2) A means of terrifying liberals.

http://www.global-connector.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/reality_pump/
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[CTRL] FC: Politech photos of DC after attack, and many, many links (fwd)

2001-09-12 Thread Yardbird


-Caveat Lector-

Photos of Washington, DC -- the White House, downtown, and the Pentagon --
that I took yesterday after the attacks:
http://www.mccullagh.org/theme/911-terrorist-attacks.html

A sad, touching Userfriendly cartoon:
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010912&mode=classic

SPOT infrared satellite image of Manhattan, acquired on September 11 at
11:55 AM ET. Image may be freely reproduced with "CNES/SPOT Image 2001"
copyright attribution:
http://www.spot.com/home/news/NYC-091101.jpg

Bin Laden applauds attack but denies involvement, aide says:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2001/09/12/binladen-happy.htm

FBI questioning people in Boston, Massachusetts, and Florida, asks for help
in finding two vehicles:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/12/investigation.terrorism/

Massachusetts police nab at least five men alleged to be collaborators in
attack:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_regional/ausattk09122001.htm

Boston hotel raided; White House and Air Force one were reportedly targets
of attackers; President Bush vows to avenge:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16714-2001Sep12.html
http://www.usatoday.com/hlead.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/12/national/12CND-PLANE.html

Terrorists allegedly trained as pilots inside U.S.:
http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/2001/09/12/investigation_010912

Alleged telephone account of passengers on flight that crashed near
Pittsburgh rushing terrorists:
http://www.jerrypournelle.com/mail/currentmail.html#eye

San Francisco mayor receives don't-travel-to-NYC warning -- eight hours
before Tuesday's attacks happen:
http:///www.sfgate.com/today/0912_chron_mnreport.shtml

Blood donation centers list (SF locations):
http://4.21.235.79/donating/centers.htm
In NYC:
http://www.nybloodcenter.org
How to find your local Red Cross location:
http://www.redcross.org/where/where.html

NSA allegedly now needs a fatter budget:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/09/12/janes.underfunding/index.html

Terror attack linked with computer games (flight simulators):
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/50/21635.html

Rebel group, not U.S., apparently responsible for Afghanistan explosions:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/09/11/kabul.blasts/index.html

Donate money to Red Cross via Pay Pal (thanks to DL and SA for these):
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/relief-outside
via Yahoo Pay Direct:
http://paydirect.yahoo.com/PD/onePage/onePageRedCrossMoney-drv.pd/
via Amazon:
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/paypage/PKAXFNQH7EKCX/107-8648671-8954909

Jonathan Wallace's account of the 9-11 NYC events, "A Hard Rain":
http://www.spectacle.org/0901/wtc.html

"The tactical blame falls on the U.S. government, which has grievously
failed in its topmost duty, to protect American citizens from harm":
http://opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=95001105

911 call preceded fiery Pennsylvania crash;
http://chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0109120251sep12.story

Federal government websites useless in providing info on attacks:
http://www.fcw.com/fcw/articles/2001/0910/web-sites-09-12-01.asp

Excite poll that says (as of 2:30 pm ET Wed) that over half of
self-selected respondents would not give up their freedoms to thwart terrorism:
http://news.excite.com/news/poll/

Country-by-country reaction:
http://www.sltrib.com/09122001/nation_w/131617.htm

Officials finger bin Laden as top suspect:
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20010912-4268220.htm

"Arab leaders have stressed that anti-US feeling is reaching a peak,
fuelled by US support for Israel and the belief that its hands-off approach
to the conflict was encouraging Jerusalem to crush the (Palestinian) intifada":
http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3S0L82IRC&live=true

Top government leaders were evacuated to the underground Mt. Weather bunker
(article doesn't say this, but that's the "secure government facility 75
miles west of Washington"):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010911/aponline182325_000.htm

Background on Mt. Weather (a fascinating, and spooky place -- I've driven
by the mountaintop entrance -- the rest is underground):
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/c3i/mt_weather.htm

"It's essential to point out just how many of the world's more baleful
terrorists and mass murderers were born precisely from the kind of
operations now advocated by the bomb-and-assassinate crowd":
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/09/12/blowback/index.html

Mailing list "for dealing with the aftermath (political, emotional, etc.)":
http://www.megacity.org/mailman/listinfo/wtc-effects

U.S. allows limited air service to resume:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1539000/1539877.stm

Akamai mourns executive, co-founder who was aboard hijacked airplane:
http://www.akamai.com/html/en/nr/press/press292.html

Akamai-powered Wa

Re: [CTRL] A Call To All Americans


-Caveat Lector-

Hello Edward - today I saw the Palestinian children and they seemed
agreeable to most anything but the pictures were staged and this one
woman with black headpiece, they could not get her to stopthese were
little kids.

Now it is being reported the ones who are being brought to justice so
far have been Egyptian and Algerian.

So USS Liberty - these men were murdered by the Israelis, not the
Egyptians for they planned to blame them..the Algerians - last think
I really remembe about them was when a sultan yars ago took away their
hash and they were mad..

Kamakazes come in many colors but I am inclined to think it is almost
Shinto Nationalism involved - who is the teacher training the pilots -
rememer the truck driver who flew the plane into Clinton's bedroom
window - or was he just working for the National Enquirer.

Lot of people got off the hook when these blasts occurred.

Joshua2 and his hatred of capitalism is now satisfied no doubt - for
these Tall Towers were symbols of the Capitalistic World.

Note the references to the farmer in this Isaiah crap and I cannot not
but help to remember Timothy McVeigh and the arab terrorists with which
he was alleged to be involved..

So now - let us see how we like living like a bunch of Marxist pigs for
the next few monthspeople will lose their shirts in the stock
market, gasoline was $5.00 a gallon last time this one suburb for there
were pigs at the tanks already.insurance companies already laying
off, in New York alone how many jobs lost with people with no income now
to livethe impact of a few suicide bombers hitting the Capitalists
where it hurts - will have its effect on the less affluent.

The sun will still rise tomorrow  only thing thousands of people are not
hear to enjoy it - their only crime working for a living.

These marxists pigs had nothing to lose..but then as Joe Lieberman
said "hey we are okay, the senate will meet tonite, we are alright".

What a shame - he forgot the possible 10,000 who were not alright.

Saba

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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] News TodayWhite House was probably a target


-Caveat Lector-

The Sec. of Transportation has announced that those caught in
flight will be allowed to resume their flights to their destination
after airports increase security.  They are the only ones being
allowed to fly again at this timeand they will fly tomorrow.  The
stock market will not open until at least Friday.  It will be
closed Thursday.

90 survivors have been pulled from the rubble alive!  Although this
is slow, 120 trucks of debris was removed overnight so they are in
a better position to work faster now.

There have been reported a few attacks on Arab-Americans in the
area.  There is also concern for a gas leak. This will necessitate
some amount of evacuation.  The rescue workers have to leave the
area until this is under control.  This will hamper their efforts.
55 dead bodies recovered.

 In this article is another number to call for assistance in
locating relatives or friends.  There has been progress in
identifying the hijackers by the FBI working with the airlines.
Said they used plastic knives and box cutters.  I do not understand
why the passengers did not over power them but said 6 to 8 may have
been used on each flight in order to succeed.  One of the
passengers on the flight that went down in PA told his wife by cell
phone that some of the passengers were gong to try to stop the
hijacking.  Maybe that is why it went down.
~Amelia~
 White House was probably a target
Bush aide explains why president didn't return right away
  Sept. 12 -  The United States has "credible evidence" that
hijackers who flew commercial jetliners into the World Trade Center
and the Pentagon also intended to hit the White House and President
Bush's official plane, a presidential spokesman told NBC News on
Wednesday. Bush declared Tuesday's devastating attacks "acts of
 war" and asked Congress for emergency funding authority to do
"whatever it takes" to help the victims and protect national
security.

 September 12 - President Bush states this will be a "monumental
struggle of good versus evil but good will prevail."
  WHITE HOUSE Press Secretary Ari Fleischer told NBC News
that one of the airliners was thought to have been targeting the
White House.
   He said "credible evidence," based on cell phone
communications, suggested that Air Force One also was a target, and
that the president was forced to zigzag across the country instead
of returning directly to Washington from Florida, where he had been
when the strikes occurred.
   The president, resolute in face of the attacks, which were
expected to claim thousands of lives, earlier told reporters at the
White House that "this battle will take time and resolve but make
no mistake about it, we will win."
   He said he had asked Congress for funding authority to
confront "a different enemy than we have ever faced" and to ensure
that the nation has "whatever it takes to rescue victims, help the
citizens of New York City and Washington, D.C., and to protect our
national security."
   In the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history, hijackers
crashed two jets into the World Trade Center, reducing both twin
towers to huge piles of concrete and steel rubble. Other hijackers
flew a jet into the Pentagon and a fourth plane crashed into a
Pennsylvania field, possibly missing its target due to a struggle
on board. Officials have not identified suspects, but suspicion
immediately fell on Osama Bin Laden, a Saudi terrorist who has
received sanctuary in Afghanistan and has spent his career railing
against the United States.
   The attacks stunned the nation and brought the government to
a halt. For the first time ever, the Federal Aviation
Administration closed all U.S. airports. New rules - including a
ban on curbside luggage check-in - meant airports were unable to
resume service at noon Wednesday as the FAA had hoped.
   The FAA said flights diverted Tuesday would be allowed to
continue to their destinations Wednesday, but that other flights
were still indefinitely on hold.

A FEW RESCUES OVERNIGHT

 September 12 - New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani on Wednesday briefs
the "Today" show on the rescue effort.
  On Wednesday, rescuers looked for any survivors while
police and FBI agents looked for clues. NBC's Pete Williams
reported that law enforcement agents were rounding up "material
witnesses" - people who might have been acquainted with the
hijackers.
   In New York, Mayor Rudolph Giuliani told NBC's "Today" show
that two police officers were rescued overnight, having contacted
rescuers by cell phone. Attempts were being made to save a third
person, he said.
   New York firefighter Rudy Weindler spent nearly 12 hours
trying to find survivors overnight and found four - three people in
the rubble and a pregnant woman sitting on a curb.
   But hundreds, if not thousands, are feared dead. "I lost
count of all the dead people I saw," Weindler said. "It is
absolutely worse than you could ever imagine."
   The four

Re: [CTRL] A Call To All Americans

2001-09-12 Thread Mike Switzer


-Caveat Lector-

You realize of course that there are Arab-Americans?
That for many Americans the Koran is the word of their religion.
If you love America, and what it stands for,
you'll take a step back and think about what you are saying.

-Original Message-
From: Edward Britton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 3:52 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] A Call To All Americans


-Caveat Lector-

Fer:


>You are "pissing", perhaps that s why your words smell so bad. Your
>thinking is "nazi-style", "mesianic", "rascist".


Today, YES.


>  You act the same way that things you hate.


No, unlike the things I hate at the moment (Arabs=things? Yep, that
works.), WE have the power to put this nonsense to an end for all time. We
should do precisely that! You, on the other hand, may wish to sit on your
hands while others blow your citizens to hell.


>Don't be furious when a plane crashes into your house if you act this way.


OK, just as long as you won't be furious if we lob an h-bomb up Bin Laden's
ass.

Edward   ><+>

Logic:

(1) The study or practice of the principles of reasoning, especially of the
structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method
and validity in deductive reasoning.

(2) A means of terrifying liberals.

http://www.global-connector.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/reality_pump/
~~

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Taliban slammed over bin Laden appointment


-Caveat Lector-

WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Peace at any cost is a Prelude to War!

Thursday, 30 August 2001 9:58 (ET)


 Taliban slammed over bin Laden appointment


  MOSCOW, Aug. 30 (UPI) -- Russia's Foreign Ministry on Thursday condemned
 the appointment of Saudi terrorism suspect Osama bin Laden as the
 commander-in-chief of the armed forces of Afghanistan's ruling Taliban
 regime, the official RIA Novosti news agency reported.

  Bin Laden's appointment confirmed that a center of international terrorism
 is being set up in Taliban-controlled territory, the ministry said in a
 statement.

  "Pseudo-religious values are being used as a cover to prepare a bridgehead
 for expansion of militant extremism and separatism far beyond the region's
 borders," added the statement.

  This month, Russian media quoted Pakistan's Nation daily as saying that
 the Taliban had named bin Laden commander of their troops. Afghanistan's
 civil war concerns the Kremlin as hundreds of Russian border guards monitor
 the Afghan-Tajik border and a potential spill of violence could plunge the
 whole region into chaos.

  Moreover, the Taliban's aim to build an orthodox Islamic state has given
 rise to many Islamic extremist movements in the former Soviet republics in
 Central Asia. In recent years, Islamic insurgents from Afghanistan launched
 raids on Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan.

  The Taliban's ongoing clashes with the Northern Alliance movement backing
 ousted President Burhanuddin Rabbani -- the leader of the government general
 recognized by international organizations -- have alerted Russia and its
 partners as arms smuggling, drug trafficking, kidnapping and other crimes
 have flourished along the Afghan-Tajik border.

  On Thursday, Moscow also condemned the appointment of Juma Namangani as
 bin Laden's deputy. Namangani, an ethnic Uzbek, was liked to a number of
 raids on Kyrgyzstan's Batken district over the last three years. Namangani
 advocates creation of an Islamic state run by a regime similar to the
 Taliban's and spreading over Central Asia.

  "Incorporation of the international terrorists' leaders into the ruling
 structures of the Taliban shows the need to take decisive measures to
 collectively counter global challenges that are put forward from the
 Taliban-controlled territory," said the statement.
 --



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Re: [CTRL] A Call To All Americans


-Caveat Lector-

Fer:


>You are "pissing", perhaps that s why your words smell so bad. Your
>thinking is "nazi-style", "mesianic", "rascist".


Today, YES.


>  You act the same way that things you hate.


No, unlike the things I hate at the moment (Arabs=things? Yep, that
works.), WE have the power to put this nonsense to an end for all time. We
should do precisely that! You, on the other hand, may wish to sit on your
hands while others blow your citizens to hell.


>Don't be furious when a plane crashes into your house if you act this way.


OK, just as long as you won't be furious if we lob an h-bomb up Bin Laden's
ass.

Edward   ><+>

Logic:

(1) The study or practice of the principles of reasoning, especially of the
structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method
and validity in deductive reasoning.

(2) A means of terrifying liberals.

http://www.global-connector.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/reality_pump/
~~

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] A Call To All Americans

2001-09-12 Thread Fernando Sobral


-Caveat Lector-

You are "pissing", perhaps that s why your words smell so bad. Your thinking is 
"nazi-style", "mesianic", "rascist". You act the same way that things you hate.

Don't be furious when a plane crashes into your house if you act this way.

Bye,
Fer


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/09/01 17:12 >>>
-Caveat Lector-

Fer:


>You re lost, Edward.


No, I'm PISSED!


>With people thinking like you we are living nowadays world.


Was this supposed to make sense?


>Kill the arabs that killed your country's people because your country s
>people killed the arab s people ...


Oh, no, you misunderstood. What I suggested was that we bomb the middle
east out of existence--everything from northern Africa to southern
Asia/Europe--and scrape what remains into the sea!. If the "Arab people"
insist on acting like barbaric scum, they should be EXTERMINATED like
barbaric scum!  Let me know if I was at all unclear.


>and keep on following this cycle until Mr.Elite and his friends smiles
>from his bunker while the last american, jewish or arab dies.
>
>Ok. That's great for you ... Your mind is a bit compressed 


Tomorrow, or next month maybe, I might feel differently. I might regret
everything I've said. Today, however, I really wish to see this cancerous
boil removed from the face of the earth.

Edward   ><+>

Logic:

(1) The study or practice of the principles of reasoning, especially of the
structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method
and validity in deductive reasoning.

(2) A means of terrifying liberals.

http://www.global-connector.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/reality_pump/
~~

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] A Massive Intelligence Failure


-Caveat Lector-

Actually, I had not heard James Baker speak on the subject of the
Church Committee gutting the intelligence agencies until this
afternoon.  Personally, I find him mildly irritating but must say
he is right on the money in this regard.  There was also a post on
this list within the last ten days on the Church Committee.  I also
heard another pundit of some sort mention it yesterday. Did not
recognize him but I know what it did.

It does not matter what the 'intention' of the committee was, the
fact is that it rendered these agencies unable to do the jobs with
which they have been charged.  The FBI is the one under the
Department of Justice and in charge of things on American soil
including embassies, etc. and has law enforcement capabilities.
The CIA does nothing but gather intelligence (in that it has no law
enforcement abilities) and operates at the behest of the President,
the Executive branch.  And why FEMA was inserted last year is
absolutely wild!

So you are contending that the Church Committee did nothing to
hinder the gathering of intelligence abroad?  Excuse me??  Do you
really think that from looking at a satellite photo, one can tell
as much as an agent on the ground?  Funding for this is at an all
time low right now and has been for the past eight years whether or
not that fits in with your idea of the scheme of things.

We all have out pet theories and ideas of who the bad guys might
be.  That is why we are conspiracy theorists.  But the basic
structure of our government is a fact as is the situation with
regard to intelligence.  I do not think blame can be placed on
anybody for this sorry state for it did not develop overnight.  It
has come about as sort of a general attitude that we all have, not
here, not us.  Now that has changed.  I, too, would have thought we
were safer than it turns out we are.  There is no co-ordination
between the various agencies, the military, etc. in this regard.
The FBI and CIA have long waged war against each other over turf
and who has authority to do what.  I think they will be forced to
be more cooperative now.  This has changed a lot of things and
priorities.
~Amelia~

- Original Message -
From: "Samantha L." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 3:39 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] A Massive Intelligence Failure


-Caveat Lector-

  Do you think for yourself, or do you let James Baker do it for
you?  The
Church Committee was about ending CIA atrocities - that's what JFK
wanted
too.  There is no shortage of funding so serious that it accounts
for the
Pentagon sitting there like a drugged duck waiting for an airplane
to smash
into it.

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Martin F. Abernathy - WTC: Two Of My Relatives May Have Been Killed

2001-09-12 Thread Fernando Sobral


-Caveat Lector-

Martin: Try this sites and don't doubt to ask for help if I can help you.

Fer

-  Report Your Safety - for people known to be in the vicinity of today's disaster to 
communicate their safety.
http://do.millennium.berkeley.edu/

-  I'm Okay Master List
http://okay.prodigy.net/

-  Disaster Message Service
http://www.viexpo.com/dmstest/america.html

-  World Trade Center Survivor Database
http://www.ny.com/wtclist.html

Fernando Sobral
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

4331-2088 (int. 4590)

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/09/01 15:44 >>>
-Caveat Lector-

I am very worried. I had two relatives who worked in Lower Manhattan in
the vicinity of the World Trade Center, and neither of them have been
heard from since the attack.

My sister [ Barbara A. Abernathy -- D.O.B. 7/16/68 ] has not been heard
from by any members of my family since the attack, and my Uncle [Harry
L. Isom -- D.O.B. 4/21/34 ] is also unaccounted for -- he didn't come
home last night. I can only pray, hope for the best, and prepare for the
worst. I am *extremely* worried.



Martin F. Abernathy  Providence,RI - 9/12/01

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] (fwd) Poll: Americans Willing to Go to War --WashingtonPost/ABC-News

2001-09-12 Thread Nurev Ind.

-Caveat Lector-

flw wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> >And by an equally lop-sided margin, the public favors taking military
> >action directly against the countries that shelter terrorist groups - a
> >somber warning to Afghanistan and other nations suspected of harboring
> >terrorists.
>
> This proves the ignorance of the American Public.
>
> >From Alexander the Great to the British and Russian Imperial
> Armies to the Soviet Union...Afganistan has been one of the world's
> premier killing grounds...they have even killed about 1,000,000 of each
> over the past 12 years.
>
> Wait till the US Army loses a few hundred thousand troops in the
> valleys and mountains of Afganistan - then we will see how anxious
> "the American Public" is for "military action"
>
> Either that or Bush will bomb some flea bitten hamlets and desolate
> mountaintops and declare victory.
> flw

I'm glad we can finally agree. Bring ALL of the miliary home.

J2

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==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
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Re: [CTRL] A Call To All Americans


-Caveat Lector-

Fer:


>You re lost, Edward.


No, I'm PISSED!


>With people thinking like you we are living nowadays world.


Was this supposed to make sense?


>Kill the arabs that killed your country's people because your country s
>people killed the arab s people ...


Oh, no, you misunderstood. What I suggested was that we bomb the middle
east out of existence--everything from northern Africa to southern
Asia/Europe--and scrape what remains into the sea!. If the "Arab people"
insist on acting like barbaric scum, they should be EXTERMINATED like
barbaric scum!  Let me know if I was at all unclear.


>and keep on following this cycle until Mr.Elite and his friends smiles
>from his bunker while the last american, jewish or arab dies.
>
>Ok. That's great for you ... Your mind is a bit compressed 


Tomorrow, or next month maybe, I might feel differently. I might regret
everything I've said. Today, however, I really wish to see this cancerous
boil removed from the face of the earth.

Edward   ><+>

Logic:

(1) The study or practice of the principles of reasoning, especially of the
structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method
and validity in deductive reasoning.

(2) A means of terrifying liberals.

http://www.global-connector.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/reality_pump/
~~

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] A Call To All Americans

2001-09-12 Thread Fernando Sobral


-Caveat Lector-

You re lost, Edward. With people thinking like you we are living nowadays world.

Kill the arabs that killed your country's people because your country s people killed 
the arab s people ... and keep on following this cycle until Mr.Elite and his friends 
smiles from his bunker while the last american, jewish or arab dies.

Ok. That's great for you ... Your mind is a bit compressed 

Fer

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/09/01 16:30 >>>
-Caveat Lector-

J2:


> > Source: http://www.webforums.com/forums/f-read/msa64.214.html
> >
> > A CALL TO ALL AMERICANS! From now on, the national toilet paper should be
> > the pages of the Koran!
>
>Why? You don't really think that your religion is any better than theirs
>do you?


I don't care who's freaking religion is better, but I found a copy of the
Koran from previous study (God only knows why now!) and plan to WIPE MY
BUTT with it the next time I take a dump.


> > Arm every flight crew in America down to the
> > man/woman who pumps the gas and loads the luggage. Allow anyone with a
> > concealed carry permit to remain armed while on any airline in the nation.
>
>Stupid gun pusher.


Stupid liberal jackoff who needs the government to wipe his nose. Now,
don't we feel better?



>  Do the word " pressurized cabin " mean anything to you
>genius?


Do the words "beats the hell out of flying into a building" mean anything
to you, prick?


> > Push your local representatives to MAKE THIS LAW!! Turn the entire middle
> > east into a parking lot!!
>
>Your a good Christian Edward.


Not today. Today, I'd really love to see a hole in the earth where the
middle east used to be!


>  Jesus saves, but you prefer parking lots.


Jesus isn't here. Maybe you haven't noticed.

Edward   ><+>

Logic:

(1) The study or practice of the principles of reasoning, especially of the
structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method
and validity in deductive reasoning.

(2) A means of terrifying liberals.

http://www.global-connector.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/reality_pump/
~~

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==
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] A Call To All Americans