subject:"Re\: \[CHALLENGE\] Move All of Commons to the Dormant"

On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 11:14 PM, Jörg Schaible  wrote:

> Henri Yandell wrote:
>
> > My first thought was "We should delete that page". :)
>
> Done at least for "Release In Progress", last change 4 years ago. Funny
> enough it had a line for Collections 4.0 ;-)
>
> There's a lot of obsolete data in the wiki.
>
>
Is there any relevant data in the wiki?

Looking at recent changes, it quickly goes back to March and most of it is
spam handling. If a wiki is mostly there for reading, I'd argue the content
should be on the website and not the wiki.

Hen

Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-16 Thread Jörg Schaible

Henri Yandell wrote:

> My first thought was "We should delete that page". :)

Done at least for "Release In Progress", last change 4 years ago. Funny 
enough it had a line for Collections 4.0 ;-)

There's a lot of obsolete data in the wiki.

- Jörg


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 12:33 AM, Emmanuel Bourg  wrote:

> Le 15/10/2013 09:13, Henri Yandell a écrit :
>
> > Related; here's the output of a 2006 script I've dusted off to show the
> > number of commits and from who to each component in 2013:
> >
> > http://people.apache.org/~bayard/ActivityReport.html
>
> Nice, I suggest taking into account the commits under src/java only,
> otherwise you catch the pom/doap updates.
>
> Emmanuel Bourg
>

Rerun for src subdirectory. A few directories fall off (attributes,
commons-nightly and httpclient):

http://people.apache.org/~bayard/ActivityReport-src.html

Hen

Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 4:59 PM, sebb  wrote:

> On 16 October 2013 12:25, Christian Grobmeier  wrote:
> > If nobody is willing to put a component to "dormant" state, then the
> > label doesn't make any sense. I would vote to remove the dormant state in
> > general.
> > If we don't have any need of a specific component we can put it to
> > attic.apache.org too.
> > No need to duplicate things.
>
> AFAIK, the Attic is for entire TLPs only, not individual components.

There are XML subcomponents there.

Jakarta ones went dormant iirc, but then moved over as subcomponents and
not the overall umbrella. So I don't think there's a reason why a Commons
component wouldn't fit.

Hen

Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-16 Thread sebb

On 16 October 2013 12:25, Christian Grobmeier  wrote:
> If nobody is willing to put a component to "dormant" state, then the
> label doesn't make any sense. I would vote to remove the dormant state in
> general.
> If we don't have any need of a specific component we can put it to
> attic.apache.org too.
> No need to duplicate things.

AFAIK, the Attic is for entire TLPs only, not individual components.

> If we don't have a "dormant", I would like to see the content of
> CHALLENGE.txt
> somewhere on the website: people who have dedicated themselves to work
> active on the
> component. If no-one signed up, it is unlikely to get issues fixed quickly.
>
> In addition I like the "last release" column.
>
> Here is a widget:
> http://svnsearch.org/svnsearch/repos/ASF/search?view=widgets&path=%2Fcommons%2Fproper
>
> It does also work on components level:
> http://svnsearch.org/svnsearch/repos/ASF/search?view=widgets&path=%2Fcommons%2Fproper%2Flogging
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> On 15 Oct 2013, at 17:50, Gary Gregory wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Ralph Goers
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Personally, I like the idea of having a last release date AND a list of
>>> people who are active in the project. The only problem is that people who go
>>> inactive rarely remove themselves from the list.
>>
>>
>> The only to solve that is with automation, like a list of the people
>> who committed over the last month for example. There must be an SVN
>> widget we can add to the site to see some useful stats.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 7:48 AM, Jörg Schaible 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi Gary,

 Gary Gregory wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:15 AM, Phil Steitz 
> wrote:
>>
>> On 10/14/13 10:59 PM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:
>>>
>>> Le 15 oct. 2013 à 07:33, Dave Brosius  a écrit :

 I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has
 leprosy.
 I don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been
 a
 commit to an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of
 doing
 that.
>>>
>>> As probably the only person that "supports"' Jelly, a dormant to be
>>> for
>>> sure, I find the word leprosy outrageous.
>>>
>>> I am happy to stay on list, I even read posts regularly, but I cannot
>>> find time or motivation to fix bugs or do new releases. I respond to
>>> any
>>> Jelly question I find.
>>>
>>> Jelly has gone 1.0 and is in use here and there.
>>> I would expect users to be interested to make it advance to come to
>>> jira
>>> and suggest fixes; I am happy to negotiate them and apply them, and
>>> maybe, if things get excited, there might be a release one day.
>>>
>>> However, moving it to a place where you would never commit would sign
>>> its death.
>>
>>
>> The proposal is not to move it anywhere, just designate it as
>> dormant so people know no one is currently working on it.
>
>
> We could avoid labeling a project with any words by simply listing the
> last release date. Each project in turn could have a section in its
> overview with a history of releases. This would help users make up
> their mind.


 Based on a release date only, vfs is dormant. Therefore I like Hen's
 approach, since every committer (or even interested user) has now the
 possibility to make his interest/commitment explicit.

 Actually we could repeat the this challenge on a yearly base (again with
 an
 empty file). A dormant label can get away in an instance if enough
 people
 show interest. It would be even better without a dormant section in svn
 (with Git it is gone anyway). Currently it takes more effort to awake a
 component.

 Just because a component is "dormant" does not mean that its maturity
 has
 gone.

 - Jörg


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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

My first thought was "We should delete that page". :)



On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 4:26 AM, Ted Dunning  wrote:

> Careful there.  Hen might suggest making that list dormant.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 16, 2013, at 0:38, Jörg Schaible  wrote:
>
> > BTW: We have already a "challenge" result, it's just terribly out of
> date:
> > https://wiki.apache.org/commons/CommonsPeople
>
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>
>

Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-16 Thread Jörg Schaible

Ted Dunning wrote:

> Careful there.  Hen might suggest making that list dormant.

Why tyke care, it just reflect the current state then ;-)

> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 16, 2013, at 0:38, Jörg Schaible  wrote:
> 
>> BTW: We have already a "challenge" result, it's just terribly out of
>> date: https://wiki.apache.org/commons/CommonsPeople



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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-16 Thread Ted Dunning

Careful there.  Hen might suggest making that list dormant.  

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 16, 2013, at 0:38, Jörg Schaible  wrote:

> BTW: We have already a "challenge" result, it's just terribly out of date:
> https://wiki.apache.org/commons/CommonsPeople

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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-16 Thread Christian Grobmeier

If nobody is willing to put a component to "dormant" state, then the
label doesn't make any sense. I would vote to remove the dormant state
in general.
If we don't have any need of a specific component we can put it to
attic.apache.org too.

No need to duplicate things.

If we don't have a "dormant", I would like to see the content of
CHALLENGE.txt
somewhere on the website: people who have dedicated themselves to work
active on the
component. If no-one signed up, it is unlikely to get issues fixed
quickly.

In addition I like the "last release" column.

Here is a widget:
http://svnsearch.org/svnsearch/repos/ASF/search?view=widgets&path=%2Fcommons%2Fproper

It does also work on components level:
http://svnsearch.org/svnsearch/repos/ASF/search?view=widgets&path=%2Fcommons%2Fproper%2Flogging

Cheers

On 15 Oct 2013, at 17:50, Gary Gregory wrote:

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Ralph Goers
wrote:
Personally, I like the idea of having a last release date AND a list
of people who are active in the project. The only problem is that
people who go inactive rarely remove themselves from the list.

The only to solve that is with automation, like a list of the people
who committed over the last month for example. There must be an SVN
widget we can add to the site to see some useful stats.

Gary

Ralph

On Oct 15, 2013, at 7:48 AM, Jörg Schaible
wrote:

Hi Gary,

Gary Gregory wrote:

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:15 AM, Phil Steitz

wrote:

On 10/14/13 10:59 PM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:
Le 15 oct. 2013 à 07:33, Dave Brosius a
écrit :
I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has
leprosy.
I don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever
been a
commit to an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of
doing

that.
As probably the only person that "supports"' Jelly, a dormant to
be for

sure, I find the word leprosy outrageous.

I am happy to stay on list, I even read posts regularly, but I
cannot
find time or motivation to fix bugs or do new releases. I respond
to any

Jelly question I find.

Jelly has gone 1.0 and is in use here and there.
I would expect users to be interested to make it advance to come
to jira
and suggest fixes; I am happy to negotiate them and apply them,
and

maybe, if things get excited, there might be a release one day.

However, moving it to a place where you would never commit would
sign

its death.

The proposal is not to move it anywhere, just designate it as
dormant so people know no one is currently working on it.

We could avoid labeling a project with any words by simply listing
the

last release date. Each project in turn could have a section in its
overview with a history of releases. This would help users make up
their mind.

Based on a release date only, vfs is dormant. Therefore I like Hen's
approach, since every committer (or even interested user) has now
the

possibility to make his interest/commitment explicit.

Actually we could repeat the this challenge on a yearly base (again
with an
empty file). A dormant label can get away in an instance if enough
people
show interest. It would be even better without a dormant section in
svn
(with Git it is gone anyway). Currently it takes more effort to
awake a

component.

Just because a component is "dormant" does not mean that its
maturity has

gone.

- Jörg

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E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
JUnit in Action, Second Edition
Spring Batch in Action
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Home: http://garygregory.com/
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Jörg Schaible

Hi Hen,

Henri Yandell wrote:

> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone
> can present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of
> Commons Proper.
> 
> I've made a file in SVN:
> 
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
> 
> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
> elimination, the components that should be considered for dormancy.
> 
> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)

BTW: We have already a "challenge" result, it's just terribly out of date:
https://wiki.apache.org/commons/CommonsPeople

- Jörg



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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Jörg Schaible

Ralph Goers wrote:

> 
> On Oct 15, 2013, at 8:50 AM, Gary Gregory  wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Ralph Goers
>>  wrote:
>>> Personally, I like the idea of having a last release date AND a list of
>>> people who are active in the project. The only problem is that people
>>> who go inactive rarely remove themselves from the list.
>> 
>> The only to solve that is with automation, like a list of the people
>> who committed over the last month for example. There must be an SVN
>> widget we can add to the site to see some useful stats.
>> 
> 
> Possibly, but I still consider myself as part of VFS and Configuration
> even though I haven't committed anything in quite some time.  A tool such
> as you propose would remove me from that list.

That's why I said, we should simply have such a challenge once a year ;-)

- Jörg


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Ralph Goers


On Oct 15, 2013, at 8:50 AM, Gary Gregory  wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Ralph Goers
>  wrote:
>> Personally, I like the idea of having a last release date AND a list of 
>> people who are active in the project. The only problem is that people who go 
>> inactive rarely remove themselves from the list.
> 
> The only to solve that is with automation, like a list of the people
> who committed over the last month for example. There must be an SVN
> widget we can add to the site to see some useful stats.
> 

Possibly, but I still consider myself as part of VFS and Configuration even 
though I haven't committed anything in quite some time.  A tool such as you 
propose would remove me from that list.

Ralph


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On 10/15/13 12:13 PM, Roger L. Whitcomb wrote:
> I'd like to put my name down as interested (but not active) for lang,
> beanutils, collections, launcher, and exec; and active (meaning we're
> using them and have patches, suggestions in the wings) for logging, vfs
> and csv.

Added to logging, csv, vfs.

Phil
>
> BTW, I've added a VFS-compatible component to Apache Pivot and we've
> discussed adding logging to Pivot as well.
>
> My Apache id is "rwhitcomb".
>
> Thanks,
> ~Roger
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Henri Yandell [mailto:flame...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 8:56 PM
> To: Commons Developers List
> Subject: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant
>
> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should
> move to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that
> anyone can present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all
> of Commons Proper.
>
> I've made a file in SVN:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
>
> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively
> monitor the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
> elimination, the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>
> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>
> Hen
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org
>
>


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RE: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Roger L. Whitcomb

I'd like to put my name down as interested (but not active) for lang,
beanutils, collections, launcher, and exec; and active (meaning we're
using them and have patches, suggestions in the wings) for logging, vfs
and csv.

BTW, I've added a VFS-compatible component to Apache Pivot and we've
discussed adding logging to Pivot as well.

My Apache id is "rwhitcomb".

Thanks,
~Roger

-Original Message-
From: Henri Yandell [mailto:flame...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 8:56 PM
To: Commons Developers List
Subject: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should
move to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that
anyone can present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all
of Commons Proper.

I've made a file in SVN:

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt

If committers could put their ids next to components they actively
monitor the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
elimination, the components that should be considered for dormancy.

I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)

Hen

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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On 10/15/13 9:50 AM, Matt Benson wrote:
> AFAIK Bernd is not an ASF committer, but a very motivated contributor to
> VFS.

OK, sorry.  The more the merrier! 

Done.

Phil
>
> Matt
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Phil Steitz  wrote:
>
>> On 10/14/13 11:27 PM, Bernd Eckenfels wrote:
>>> I am not happy about the challange, but if you have the file open can
>> you please add me as active contributor to VFS2? Thanks.
>>
>> What is your ASF username?
>>
>> Phil
 Am 15.10.2013 um 06:14 schrieb Phil Steitz :

> On 10/14/13 8:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should
>> move
> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that
>> anyone can
> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of
>> Commons
> Proper.
>
> I've made a file in SVN:
>
>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively
>> monitor
> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
>> elimination,
> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
 Thanks, Hen!  Lets see who has a pulse ;)

 Lets also let non-committers chime in, though.  I will volunteer to
 be commit monkey on this file for anyone not a commons committer who
 really wants to work on something.

 Phil
> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>
> Hen
>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Matt Benson

AFAIK Bernd is not an ASF committer, but a very motivated contributor to
VFS.

Matt


On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Phil Steitz  wrote:

> On 10/14/13 11:27 PM, Bernd Eckenfels wrote:
> > I am not happy about the challange, but if you have the file open can
> you please add me as active contributor to VFS2? Thanks.
>
> What is your ASF username?
>
> Phil
> >
> >> Am 15.10.2013 um 06:14 schrieb Phil Steitz :
> >>
> >>> On 10/14/13 8:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
> >>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should
> move
> >>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that
> anyone can
> >>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of
> Commons
> >>> Proper.
> >>>
> >>> I've made a file in SVN:
> >>>
> >>>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
> >>>
> >>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively
> monitor
> >>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
> elimination,
> >>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
> >> Thanks, Hen!  Lets see who has a pulse ;)
> >>
> >> Lets also let non-committers chime in, though.  I will volunteer to
> >> be commit monkey on this file for anyone not a commons committer who
> >> really wants to work on something.
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
> >>>
> >>> Hen
> >>>
> >>
> >> -
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> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org
> >>
> > -
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> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On 10/14/13 11:27 PM, Bernd Eckenfels wrote:
> I am not happy about the challange, but if you have the file open can you 
> please add me as active contributor to VFS2? Thanks.

What is your ASF username?

Phil
>
>> Am 15.10.2013 um 06:14 schrieb Phil Steitz :
>>
>>> On 10/14/13 8:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
>>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone can
>>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
>>> Proper.
>>>
>>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>>
>>>https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
>>>
>>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
>>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by elimination,
>>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>> Thanks, Hen!  Lets see who has a pulse ;)
>>
>> Lets also let non-committers chime in, though.  I will volunteer to
>> be commit monkey on this file for anyone not a commons committer who
>> really wants to work on something.
>>
>> Phil
>>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>>>
>>> Hen
>>>
>>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Matt Benson

That would be a no.  :)

Matt


On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Honton, Charles  wrote:

> This automation, along with other infrastructure to attract new developers
> already exists in several commercial source forges.  Do Apache policies
> allow development to be hosted at GitHub or the like?
>
> Regards,
> chas
>
>
> On 10/15/13 8:50 AM, "Gary Gregory"  wrote:
>
> >On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Ralph Goers
> > wrote:
> >> Personally, I like the idea of having a last release date AND a list of
> >>people who are active in the project. The only problem is that people
> >>who go inactive rarely remove themselves from the list.
> >
> >The only to solve that is with automation, like a list of the people
> >who committed over the last month for example. There must be an SVN
> >widget we can add to the site to see some useful stats.
> >
> >Gary
> >
> >>
>
>
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>

Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Honton, Charles

This automation, along with other infrastructure to attract new developers
already exists in several commercial source forges.  Do Apache policies
allow development to be hosted at GitHub or the like?

Regards,
chas


On 10/15/13 8:50 AM, "Gary Gregory"  wrote:

>On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Ralph Goers
> wrote:
>> Personally, I like the idea of having a last release date AND a list of
>>people who are active in the project. The only problem is that people
>>who go inactive rarely remove themselves from the list.
>
>The only to solve that is with automation, like a list of the people
>who committed over the last month for example. There must be an SVN
>widget we can add to the site to see some useful stats.
>
>Gary
>
>>


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Ralph Goers
 wrote:
> Personally, I like the idea of having a last release date AND a list of 
> people who are active in the project. The only problem is that people who go 
> inactive rarely remove themselves from the list.

The only to solve that is with automation, like a list of the people
who committed over the last month for example. There must be an SVN
widget we can add to the site to see some useful stats.

Gary

>
> Ralph
>
>
>
> On Oct 15, 2013, at 7:48 AM, Jörg Schaible  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Gary,
>>
>> Gary Gregory wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:15 AM, Phil Steitz 
>>> wrote:
 On 10/14/13 10:59 PM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:
> Le 15 oct. 2013 à 07:33, Dave Brosius  a écrit :
>> I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has leprosy.
>> I don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been a
>> commit to an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of doing
>> that.
> As probably the only person that "supports"' Jelly, a dormant to be for
> sure, I find the word leprosy outrageous.
>
> I am happy to stay on list, I even read posts regularly, but I cannot
> find time or motivation to fix bugs or do new releases. I respond to any
> Jelly question I find.
>
> Jelly has gone 1.0 and is in use here and there.
> I would expect users to be interested to make it advance to come to jira
> and suggest fixes; I am happy to negotiate them and apply them, and
> maybe, if things get excited, there might be a release one day.
>
> However, moving it to a place where you would never commit would sign
> its death.

 The proposal is not to move it anywhere, just designate it as
 dormant so people know no one is currently working on it.
>>>
>>> We could avoid labeling a project with any words by simply listing the
>>> last release date. Each project in turn could have a section in its
>>> overview with a history of releases. This would help users make up
>>> their mind.
>>
>> Based on a release date only, vfs is dormant. Therefore I like Hen's
>> approach, since every committer (or even interested user) has now the
>> possibility to make his interest/commitment explicit.
>>
>> Actually we could repeat the this challenge on a yearly base (again with an
>> empty file). A dormant label can get away in an instance if enough people
>> show interest. It would be even better without a dormant section in svn
>> (with Git it is gone anyway). Currently it takes more effort to awake a
>> component.
>>
>> Just because a component is "dormant" does not mean that its maturity has
>> gone.
>>
>> - Jörg
>>
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org
>>
>
>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Ralph Goers

Personally, I like the idea of having a last release date AND a list of people 
who are active in the project. The only problem is that people who go inactive 
rarely remove themselves from the list.

Ralph



On Oct 15, 2013, at 7:48 AM, Jörg Schaible  wrote:

> Hi Gary,
> 
> Gary Gregory wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:15 AM, Phil Steitz 
>> wrote:
>>> On 10/14/13 10:59 PM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:
 Le 15 oct. 2013 à 07:33, Dave Brosius  a écrit :
> I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has leprosy.
> I don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been a
> commit to an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of doing
> that.
 As probably the only person that "supports"' Jelly, a dormant to be for
 sure, I find the word leprosy outrageous.
 
 I am happy to stay on list, I even read posts regularly, but I cannot
 find time or motivation to fix bugs or do new releases. I respond to any
 Jelly question I find.
 
 Jelly has gone 1.0 and is in use here and there.
 I would expect users to be interested to make it advance to come to jira
 and suggest fixes; I am happy to negotiate them and apply them, and
 maybe, if things get excited, there might be a release one day.
 
 However, moving it to a place where you would never commit would sign
 its death.
>>> 
>>> The proposal is not to move it anywhere, just designate it as
>>> dormant so people know no one is currently working on it.
>> 
>> We could avoid labeling a project with any words by simply listing the
>> last release date. Each project in turn could have a section in its
>> overview with a history of releases. This would help users make up
>> their mind.
> 
> Based on a release date only, vfs is dormant. Therefore I like Hen's 
> approach, since every committer (or even interested user) has now the 
> possibility to make his interest/commitment explicit.
> 
> Actually we could repeat the this challenge on a yearly base (again with an 
> empty file). A dormant label can get away in an instance if enough people 
> show interest. It would be even better without a dormant section in svn 
> (with Git it is gone anyway). Currently it takes more effort to awake a 
> component.
> 
> Just because a component is "dormant" does not mean that its maturity has 
> gone.
> 
> - Jörg
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org
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> 


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On 10/15/13 1:11 AM, Xavier Detant wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm not a commiter nor an active contributor, nevertheless, I use commons
> every days and I clearly do not want to see them die. The reason I'm not
> active is a matter of time (but it's just a matter of organization) and a
> matter of being afraid of doing something wrong. Clearly, it seams like
> it's time for me to find some time and courage. I'd love to work on commons
> like collections or beanUtils. I think I can free one evening a week (= 4
> hours a week) is it ok or should I need more ? Which resources should I
> read before getting involved ?

Welcome and thanks in advance for your contributions!

The best first thing to read is [1].  You have already subscribed to
this list, which is a great first step for Commons.  Also subscribe
if you haven't to the user list and get set up with a Jira account. 
Then just start checking out code, contributing to discussion and
submitting patches.  A good place to start at the component level is
to look at open JIRAs. Do not hesitate to ask here or offlist if you
have any problems getting set up, etc.

Regarding time commitment, however much time you have to work on
stuff will be much appreciated.  There is no fixed expectation at all.

Thanks again for jumping in!

Phil  

[1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/getinvolved.html
>
> Thanks
>
>
> 2013/10/15 Emmanuel Bourg 
>
>> Le 15/10/2013 09:13, Henri Yandell a écrit :
>>
>>> Related; here's the output of a 2006 script I've dusted off to show the
>>> number of commits and from who to each component in 2013:
>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~bayard/ActivityReport.html
>> Nice, I suggest taking into account the commits under src/java only,
>> otherwise you catch the pom/doap updates.
>>
>> Emmanuel Bourg
>>
>>
>> -
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>>
>>
>

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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Jörg Schaible

Hi Gary,

Gary Gregory wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:15 AM, Phil Steitz 
> wrote:
>> On 10/14/13 10:59 PM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:
>>> Le 15 oct. 2013 à 07:33, Dave Brosius  a écrit :
 I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has leprosy.
 I don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been a
 commit to an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of doing
 that.
>>> As probably the only person that "supports"' Jelly, a dormant to be for
>>> sure, I find the word leprosy outrageous.
>>>
>>> I am happy to stay on list, I even read posts regularly, but I cannot
>>> find time or motivation to fix bugs or do new releases. I respond to any
>>> Jelly question I find.
>>>
>>> Jelly has gone 1.0 and is in use here and there.
>>> I would expect users to be interested to make it advance to come to jira
>>> and suggest fixes; I am happy to negotiate them and apply them, and
>>> maybe, if things get excited, there might be a release one day.
>>>
>>> However, moving it to a place where you would never commit would sign
>>> its death.
>>
>> The proposal is not to move it anywhere, just designate it as
>> dormant so people know no one is currently working on it.
> 
> We could avoid labeling a project with any words by simply listing the
> last release date. Each project in turn could have a section in its
> overview with a history of releases. This would help users make up
> their mind.

Based on a release date only, vfs is dormant. Therefore I like Hen's 
approach, since every committer (or even interested user) has now the 
possibility to make his interest/commitment explicit.

Actually we could repeat the this challenge on a yearly base (again with an 
empty file). A dormant label can get away in an instance if enough people 
show interest. It would be even better without a dormant section in svn 
(with Git it is gone anyway). Currently it takes more effort to awake a 
component.

Just because a component is "dormant" does not mean that its maturity has 
gone.

- Jörg


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On 10/14/13 11:50 PM, Jörg Schaible wrote:
> Phil Steitz wrote:
>
>> I just killed a checkout that was grabbing all trunks to get this
>> file.  Is there a way to check out just the file, or can we move it
>> somewhere easier to get to?
> svn co -N https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/

Thanks, guys.  Never too late to learn something ;)

Phil
>
> ;-)
>
>
> -
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>
> .
>


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Paul Benedict

I don't like the idea of putting inactive components in the attic -- unless
there is some unreasonable length of time that goes by without any
development (3 years?). People who want to get things out of the attic are
usually a sole passionate fellow. Can a sole fellow unilaterally get a
component out of the attic? I wouldn't think so ... but if I am wrong, I
would drop my objection.

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 7:59 AM, Emmanuel Bourg  wrote:

> Le 15/10/2013 14:35, Gary Gregory a écrit :
>
> > the web site can say "last released on -mm-dd, no new
> > releases planned".
>
> I like this idea, but unless you automate the site update it adds an
> extra manual step to the release process.
>
> Emmanuel Bourg
>
>
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>
>

-- 
Cheers,
Paul

Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Emmanuel Bourg

Le 15/10/2013 14:35, Gary Gregory a écrit :

> the web site can say "last released on -mm-dd, no new
> releases planned".

I like this idea, but unless you automate the site update it adds an
extra manual step to the release process.

Emmanuel Bourg


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:15 AM, Phil Steitz  wrote:
> On 10/14/13 10:59 PM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:
>> Le 15 oct. 2013 à 07:33, Dave Brosius  a écrit :
>>> I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has leprosy. I 
>>> don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been a commit 
>>> to an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of doing that.
>> As probably the only person that "supports"' Jelly, a dormant to be for 
>> sure, I find the word leprosy outrageous.
>>
>> I am happy to stay on list, I even read posts regularly, but I cannot find 
>> time or motivation to fix bugs or do new releases. I respond to any Jelly 
>> question I find.
>>
>> Jelly has gone 1.0 and is in use here and there.
>> I would expect users to be interested to make it advance to come to jira and 
>> suggest fixes; I am happy to negotiate them and apply them, and maybe, if 
>> things get excited, there might be a release one day.
>>
>> However, moving it to a place where you would never commit would sign its 
>> death.
>
> The proposal is not to move it anywhere, just designate it as
> dormant so people know no one is currently working on it.

We could avoid labeling a project with any words by simply listing the
last release date. Each project in turn could have a section in its
overview with a history of releases. This would help users make up
their mind.

Gary

Honestly,
> it is basically *acknowledging* its currently dead state.  If you
> intend to work on it, you can commit to the svn file hen posted top
> of this thread.  If you disagree with the whole idea of designating
> things as dormant, you can state that here.  I don't get the
> awfulness of saying something is dormant.  Says nothing about the
> quality or usefulness or whether someone might pick it up later -
> just nobody is working on it now.
>
> Phil
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> PS: there's a zillion software units not in active development running in 
>> your own computer and they do their job.
>> PPS: is this thread the thread I should find instructions with to make sure 
>> Jelly is not retired? That's not what I have seen but I fear having missed 
>> something.
>> -
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>>
>
>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Dave Brosius  wrote:
> I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has leprosy. I
> don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been a commit
> to an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of doing that.

It is already hard enough releasing active project due to our
Byzantine requirements and processes, let's not make it even harder to
revive a project that has not been touched for a while.

I would personally not even take the time to do a song and dance to
put a component in an attic. Just document it as such and move on. ;)

Gary

>
>
>
>
> On 10/15/2013 01:22 AM, Benedikt Ritter wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Am 15.10.2013 um 07:14 schrieb Dave Brosius :
>>>
>>> Perhaps for new users, however there are lots of projects currently using
>>> these libraries. We are extending the middle finger to them by doing this. I
>>> would come away thinking i'm not going to risk using any Apache library, if
>>> I they will  just yank away the next project i choose to use sometime in the
>>> near future. I'm fine with putting a message on the site that says, this
>>> project is in desperate need of supporters, developers, testers,
>>> documentation folks, etc, etc. without which maintenance and support will be
>>> next to impossible. That would warn new users fairly enough imo.
>>
>> That's basically what dormant means...
>>
>>> dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A project is only one of these clients needing a fix away from
>>> re-engaging.
>>>
>>> On 10/15/2013 12:59 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:

 Three values jump out to me:

 * First is for our users. Having code available that no one is
 supporting
 while giving the appearance of support (ie: active Commons) is a bad
 experience.
 * Second (generally for the ASF) is that if we have code we can't
 maintain,
 because there is no one who can handle some critical issue, then we
 shouldn't be treating it as a live project. That's always been something
 Commons could get around by knowing that some of the committers will dig
 into unknown component A and figure out what the critical issue is in
 the
 rare times it's come up.
 * Third is that it provides focus to not be trying to fix all of the
 inactive components when we change the build or site. Though perhaps we
 just leave it all broken anyway :)

 Hen

> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Dave Brosius 
> wrote:
>
> I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing projects.
>
>
>
>
>> On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>
>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should
>> move
>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that
>> anyone
>> can
>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of
>> Commons
>> Proper.
>>
>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>
>>   https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/commons/trunks-proper/**
>>
>> CHALLENGE.txt
>>
>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively
>> monitor
>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
>> elimination,
>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>>
>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>>
>> Hen
>
>
> --**--**-
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>>>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Henri Yandell  wrote:
> Three values jump out to me:
>
> * First is for our users. Having code available that no one is supporting
> while giving the appearance of support (ie: active Commons) is a bad
> experience.

We are all volunteers with limited time available, at least I am.
Because I am not committing to [foo] and replying to every ping on the
ML, SO, and #apache-commons does not mean it is dead. For example, I
consider VFS very much alive, I've just not taken the time to release
a 2.1; and there are a LOT of deltas from 2.0 that would help me in
many other projects.

The main commons page would benefit from a last released date column.

For me, I do not want the status of a project to require work. All
that is needed is that the main table annotates each project with a
date and comment: active, needs help for a release, and so on.
Releasing a new version would automatically resurrect a project
without the added bureaucracy to de-attic-ing it. Let's say [foo] has
not been released in 2 years and I need a bug fix? I fix it and we
release it with the usual process. No extra paperwork needed.

As a user, I can decide what metric I want to add a dependency to a
project. Maybe I do not care that it has not been updated in 2 years.
Maybe I want one that is actively discussed on the ML. The user
decides. I do not see that giving us more work by classifying
liveliness helps users, because a project can always be revived. So, I
would even do away with the concept of a format attic. The code stays
where it is, the web site can say "last released on -mm-dd, no new
releases planned".

Gary

Gary

> * Second (generally for the ASF) is that if we have code we can't maintain,
> because there is no one who can handle some critical issue, then we
> shouldn't be treating it as a live project. That's always been something
> Commons could get around by knowing that some of the committers will dig
> into unknown component A and figure out what the critical issue is in the
> rare times it's come up.
> * Third is that it provides focus to not be trying to fix all of the
> inactive components when we change the build or site. Though perhaps we
> just leave it all broken anyway :)
>
> Hen
>
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Dave Brosius  wrote:
>
>> I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing projects.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>
>>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
>>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone
>>> can
>>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
>>> Proper.
>>>
>>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>>
>>>  https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/commons/trunks-proper/**
>>> CHALLENGE.txt
>>>
>>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
>>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
>>> elimination,
>>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>>>
>>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>>>
>>> Hen
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --**--**-
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>>
>>

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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 12:40 AM, Dave Brosius  wrote:
> I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing projects.

I agree. The attic means graveyard IMO, resurrection is (usually) a
big deal, just ask Miracle Max.

Gary

>
>
>
>
> On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>
>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone
>> can
>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
>> Proper.
>>
>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>
>>  https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
>>
>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
>> elimination,
>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>>
>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>>
>> Hen
>>
>
>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Bruno P. Kinoshita

Hi Paul!

I'm interested in working on Jelly too. I work with Jenkins and Jenkins 
plug-ins, and Jenkins UI uses jelly in a lot of places, but they have a patched 
version [1]. Kohsuke filed issues in JIRA some time ago, but it never got 
merged. I want to take a look at these patches and see if I can help reviewing 
them.

I will have a dev cycle to work on Apache projects after this weekend. If you 
have time maybe we can review some of these issues :o)

Thanks!
 
[1] https://github.com/jenkinsci/jelly

Bruno P. Kinoshita
http://kinoshita.eti.br
http://tupilabs.com


- Original Message -
> From: Paul Libbrecht 
> To: Commons Developers List 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 2:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant
> 
> Le 15 oct. 2013 à 07:33, Dave Brosius  a écrit :
>>  I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has leprosy. 
> I don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been a commit 
> to an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of doing that.
> 
> As probably the only person that "supports"' Jelly, a dormant to 
> be for sure, I find the word leprosy outrageous.
> 
> I am happy to stay on list, I even read posts regularly, but I cannot find 
> time 
> or motivation to fix bugs or do new releases. I respond to any Jelly question 
> I 
> find.
> 
> Jelly has gone 1.0 and is in use here and there.
> I would expect users to be interested to make it advance to come to jira and 
> suggest fixes; I am happy to negotiate them and apply them, and maybe, if 
> things 
> get excited, there might be a release one day.
> 
> However, moving it to a place where you would never commit would sign its 
> death.
> 
> Paul
> 
> PS: there's a zillion software units not in active development running in 
> your own computer and they do their job.
> PPS: is this thread the thread I should find instructions with to make sure 
> Jelly is not retired? That's not what I have seen but I fear having missed 
> something.
> 
> -
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Ate Douma


On 10/15/2013 10:31 AM, Torsten Curdt wrote:

I monitor commits, rarely check JIRA, follow and sometimes answer mails and
close to never develop code for that component anymore - maybe once or
twice a year when I go through JIRAs.

Now what?

I appreciate the initiative but don't see this working too well for me.

If this was all just one repo and dormant was just a "not actively
developed" flag this would be a little easier.


While Henri suggested in his initial email that non-active components should be 
'moved' to Attic/Dormant, he already indicated later that no decision or even 
conclusion should be drawn yet.


Lets first build up some data on the current status, which I think is a very 
sensible thing to do (regularly even).


If and how 'dormant' components should be flagged IMO should be a separate 
discussion once we have clearer view which components would fall in such category.


I myself would agree to just 'flag' such components, recorded in some status 
file somewhere and probably should (automatically?) get a warning banner up on 
their site so the *end users* are aware of this status.


Moving a component in svn under /dormant (if its not there already) seems to me 
a change not really needed to get the point across. Again: the primary target 
here IMO are the *end users*, not temporarily MIA developers.


And moving a component into the the Attic is something completely different all 
together.
Maybe feasible as well for some 'forever dormant' components, but not to be 
decided lightly for sure.



Even better if there was a script that regularly checks different
conditions and updates the flag on the website accordingly.


That would work for me as well. Not sure though how easy such script can be 
made, which criteria to check and how to quantify them (svn, release tags, JIRA, 
mailing lists, etc.)


Ate



cheers,
Torsten




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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Torsten Curdt

I monitor commits, rarely check JIRA, follow and sometimes answer mails and
close to never develop code for that component anymore - maybe once or
twice a year when I go through JIRAs.

Now what?

I appreciate the initiative but don't see this working too well for me.

If this was all just one repo and dormant was just a "not actively
developed" flag this would be a little easier.
Even better if there was a script that regularly checks different
conditions and updates the flag on the website accordingly.

cheers,
Torsten

Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Xavier Detant

Hi all,

I'm not a commiter nor an active contributor, nevertheless, I use commons
every days and I clearly do not want to see them die. The reason I'm not
active is a matter of time (but it's just a matter of organization) and a
matter of being afraid of doing something wrong. Clearly, it seams like
it's time for me to find some time and courage. I'd love to work on commons
like collections or beanUtils. I think I can free one evening a week (= 4
hours a week) is it ok or should I need more ? Which resources should I
read before getting involved ?

Thanks


2013/10/15 Emmanuel Bourg 

> Le 15/10/2013 09:13, Henri Yandell a écrit :
>
> > Related; here's the output of a 2006 script I've dusted off to show the
> > number of commits and from who to each component in 2013:
> >
> > http://people.apache.org/~bayard/ActivityReport.html
>
> Nice, I suggest taking into account the commits under src/java only,
> otherwise you catch the pom/doap updates.
>
> Emmanuel Bourg
>
>
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-- 
Xavier DETANT

Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Emmanuel Bourg

Le 15/10/2013 09:13, Henri Yandell a écrit :

> Related; here's the output of a 2006 script I've dusted off to show the
> number of commits and from who to each component in 2013:
> 
> http://people.apache.org/~bayard/ActivityReport.html

Nice, I suggest taking into account the commits under src/java only,
otherwise you catch the pom/doap updates.

Emmanuel Bourg


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Adrian Crum


On 10/14/2013 10:59 PM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:

Le 15 oct. 2013 à 07:33, Dave Brosius  a écrit :

I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has leprosy. I don't 
know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been a commit to an 
attic'ed project? I personally would never think of doing that.


As probably the only person that "supports"' Jelly, a dormant to be for sure, I 
find the word leprosy outrageous.


And rightly so. This type of discussion/decision relies heavily on 
subjective evaluations - that's why I asked early on for the criteria.


For example, if a project is moved to the attic because it has:

1. No mailing list activity in nnn years
2. No functional commits in nnn years
3. No Jira issues resolved in nnn years

then there is nothing subjective about it. People might assign whatever 
labels they want, but the move was based on something concrete and 
measurable.


Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Henri Yandell

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 12:00 AM, Emmanuel Bourg  wrote:

> Le 15/10/2013 07:33, Dave Brosius a écrit :
> > I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has leprosy. I
> > don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been a
> > commit to an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of doing
> > that.
>
> +1
>
> I wouldn't use such a strong word, but I agree that putting a component
> in the dormant state is the best recipe to repel any contribution.
>
> I'd prefer a "help wanted" flag on the components still useful but
> needing more contributors, and "obsolete" for the components abandoned
> because a better alternative exists.
>
>
Let's assume there are no decisions implied and collect the data.

I'll admit that my initial email is designed to be trouble making and get
attention :)

---

Related; here's the output of a 2006 script I've dusted off to show the
number of commits and from who to each component in 2013:

http://people.apache.org/~bayard/ActivityReport.html

Hen

Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-15 Thread Emmanuel Bourg

Le 15/10/2013 07:33, Dave Brosius a écrit :
> I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has leprosy. I
> don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been a
> commit to an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of doing
> that.

+1

I wouldn't use such a strong word, but I agree that putting a component
in the dormant state is the best recipe to repel any contribution.

I'd prefer a "help wanted" flag on the components still useful but
needing more contributors, and "obsolete" for the components abandoned
because a better alternative exists.

Emmanuel Bourg


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-14 Thread Jörg Schaible

Phil Steitz wrote:

> I just killed a checkout that was grabbing all trunks to get this
> file.  Is there a way to check out just the file, or can we move it
> somewhere easier to get to?

svn co -N https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/

;-)


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-14 Thread Paul Libbrecht

Phil,

> The proposal is not to move it anywhere, just designate it as
> dormant so people know no one is currently working on it.  Honestly,
> it is basically *acknowledging* its currently dead state.

Absolutely!

> If you intend to work on it, you can commit to the svn file hen posted top
> of this thread.  If you disagree with the whole idea of designating
> things as dormant, you can state that here.  I don't get the
> awfulness of saying something is dormant.  Says nothing about the
> quality or usefulness or whether someone might pick it up later -
> just nobody is working on it now.


I did not say I am against dormant. On the contrary, the term is perfectly 
chosen.
(in French, this word is mostly used in the tale of sleeping beauty, la belle 
au bois dormant).

I was against "leprosy". Also I would fight against anything that would prevent 
new commits.

Also, can someone answer the question about the CHallenge being properly open 
in file:
  
CHALLENGE.txt
Someone mentioned changing the place but was that done?

thanks

Paul



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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-14 Thread Bernd Eckenfels

I am not happy about the challange, but if you have the file open can you 
please add me as active contributor to VFS2? Thanks.

> Am 15.10.2013 um 06:14 schrieb Phil Steitz :
> 
>> On 10/14/13 8:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone can
>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
>> Proper.
>> 
>> I've made a file in SVN:
>> 
>>https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
>> 
>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by elimination,
>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
> 
> Thanks, Hen!  Lets see who has a pulse ;)
> 
> Lets also let non-committers chime in, though.  I will volunteer to
> be commit monkey on this file for anyone not a commons committer who
> really wants to work on something.
> 
> Phil
>> 
>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>> 
>> Hen
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On 10/14/13 10:59 PM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:
> Le 15 oct. 2013 à 07:33, Dave Brosius  a écrit :
>> I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has leprosy. I 
>> don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been a commit 
>> to an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of doing that.
> As probably the only person that "supports"' Jelly, a dormant to be for sure, 
> I find the word leprosy outrageous.
>
> I am happy to stay on list, I even read posts regularly, but I cannot find 
> time or motivation to fix bugs or do new releases. I respond to any Jelly 
> question I find.
>
> Jelly has gone 1.0 and is in use here and there.
> I would expect users to be interested to make it advance to come to jira and 
> suggest fixes; I am happy to negotiate them and apply them, and maybe, if 
> things get excited, there might be a release one day.
>
> However, moving it to a place where you would never commit would sign its 
> death.

The proposal is not to move it anywhere, just designate it as
dormant so people know no one is currently working on it.  Honestly,
it is basically *acknowledging* its currently dead state.  If you
intend to work on it, you can commit to the svn file hen posted top
of this thread.  If you disagree with the whole idea of designating
things as dormant, you can state that here.  I don't get the
awfulness of saying something is dormant.  Says nothing about the
quality or usefulness or whether someone might pick it up later -
just nobody is working on it now.

Phil
>
> Paul
>
> PS: there's a zillion software units not in active development running in 
> your own computer and they do their job.
> PPS: is this thread the thread I should find instructions with to make sure 
> Jelly is not retired? That's not what I have seen but I fear having missed 
> something.
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org
>
>


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-14 Thread Paul Libbrecht

Le 15 oct. 2013 à 07:33, Dave Brosius  a écrit :
> I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has leprosy. I 
> don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been a commit to 
> an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of doing that.

As probably the only person that "supports"' Jelly, a dormant to be for sure, I 
find the word leprosy outrageous.

I am happy to stay on list, I even read posts regularly, but I cannot find time 
or motivation to fix bugs or do new releases. I respond to any Jelly question I 
find.

Jelly has gone 1.0 and is in use here and there.
I would expect users to be interested to make it advance to come to jira and 
suggest fixes; I am happy to negotiate them and apply them, and maybe, if 
things get excited, there might be a release one day.

However, moving it to a place where you would never commit would sign its death.

Paul

PS: there's a zillion software units not in active development running in your 
own computer and they do their job.
PPS: is this thread the thread I should find instructions with to make sure 
Jelly is not retired? That's not what I have seen but I fear having missed 
something.
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On 10/14/13 10:33 PM, Dave Brosius wrote:
> I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has
> leprosy. I don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there
> ever been a commit to an attic'ed project? I personally would
> never think of doing that.

There have been commons components moved back from dormant.  Functor
is one.  I think there have been others.  If we keep the svn in
place, as I have proposed for commons proper components (don't
actually move them), that makes it even easier. 

Phil
>
>
>
> On 10/15/2013 01:22 AM, Benedikt Ritter wrote:
>>
>>> Am 15.10.2013 um 07:14 schrieb Dave Brosius :
>>>
>>> Perhaps for new users, however there are lots of projects
>>> currently using these libraries. We are extending the middle
>>> finger to them by doing this. I would come away thinking i'm not
>>> going to risk using any Apache library, if I they will  just
>>> yank away the next project i choose to use sometime in the near
>>> future. I'm fine with putting a message on the site that says,
>>> this project is in desperate need of supporters, developers,
>>> testers, documentation folks, etc, etc. without which
>>> maintenance and support will be next to impossible. That would
>>> warn new users fairly enough imo.
>> That's basically what dormant means...
>>
>>> dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A project is only one of these clients needing a fix away from
>>> re-engaging.
>>>
>>> On 10/15/2013 12:59 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
 Three values jump out to me:

 * First is for our users. Having code available that no one is
 supporting
 while giving the appearance of support (ie: active Commons) is
 a bad
 experience.
 * Second (generally for the ASF) is that if we have code we
 can't maintain,
 because there is no one who can handle some critical issue,
 then we
 shouldn't be treating it as a live project. That's always been
 something
 Commons could get around by knowing that some of the committers
 will dig
 into unknown component A and figure out what the critical issue
 is in the
 rare times it's come up.
 * Third is that it provides focus to not be trying to fix all
 of the
 inactive components when we change the build or site. Though
 perhaps we
 just leave it all broken anyway :)

 Hen

> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Dave Brosius
>  wrote:
>
> I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing
> projects.
>
>
>
>
>> On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>
>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and
>> should move
>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion
>> that anyone
>> can
>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all
>> of Commons
>> Proper.
>>
>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>
>>  
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/commons/trunks-proper/**
>> CHALLENGE.txt
>>
>>
>> If committers could put their ids next to components they
>> actively monitor
>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
>> elimination,
>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>>
>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of
>> November :)
>>
>> Hen
> --**--**-
>
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>>>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On 10/14/13 9:59 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
> Three values jump out to me:
>
> * First is for our users. Having code available that no one is supporting
> while giving the appearance of support (ie: active Commons) is a bad
> experience.
> * Second (generally for the ASF) is that if we have code we can't maintain,
> because there is no one who can handle some critical issue, then we
> shouldn't be treating it as a live project. That's always been something
> Commons could get around by knowing that some of the committers will dig
> into unknown component A and figure out what the critical issue is in the
> rare times it's come up.
> * Third is that it provides focus to not be trying to fix all of the
> inactive components when we change the build or site. Though perhaps we
> just leave it all broken anyway :)

Fourth, we have a "dormant" designation now and we really should
have been doing this since we agreed to that quite a few years
back.  If we want to get rid of the dormant designation then we
should agree to drop that designation altogether.  Don't you think
its better to be honest with users about what is being maintained? 
As long as there is a low bar to revive, what exactly is the loss in
doing this?

Phil
>
> Hen
>
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Dave Brosius  wrote:
>
>> I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing projects.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>
>>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
>>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone
>>> can
>>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
>>> Proper.
>>>
>>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>>
>>>  https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/commons/trunks-proper/**
>>> CHALLENGE.txt
>>>
>>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
>>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
>>> elimination,
>>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>>>
>>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>>>
>>> Hen
>>>
>>>
>> --**--**-
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
>> dev-unsubscribe@commons.**apache.org
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>>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-14 Thread Dave Brosius

I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has leprosy. I 
don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been a 
commit to an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of doing that.




On 10/15/2013 01:22 AM, Benedikt Ritter wrote:



Am 15.10.2013 um 07:14 schrieb Dave Brosius :

Perhaps for new users, however there are lots of projects currently using these 
libraries. We are extending the middle finger to them by doing this. I would 
come away thinking i'm not going to risk using any Apache library, if I they 
will  just yank away the next project i choose to use sometime in the near 
future. I'm fine with putting a message on the site that says, this project is 
in desperate need of supporters, developers, testers, documentation folks, etc, 
etc. without which maintenance and support will be next to impossible. That 
would warn new users fairly enough imo.

That's basically what dormant means...


dave



A project is only one of these clients needing a fix away from re-engaging.

On 10/15/2013 12:59 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:

Three values jump out to me:

* First is for our users. Having code available that no one is supporting
while giving the appearance of support (ie: active Commons) is a bad
experience.
* Second (generally for the ASF) is that if we have code we can't maintain,
because there is no one who can handle some critical issue, then we
shouldn't be treating it as a live project. That's always been something
Commons could get around by knowing that some of the committers will dig
into unknown component A and figure out what the critical issue is in the
rare times it's come up.
* Third is that it provides focus to not be trying to fix all of the
inactive components when we change the build or site. Though perhaps we
just leave it all broken anyway :)

Hen


On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Dave Brosius  wrote:

I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing projects.





On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:

I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone
can
present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
Proper.

I've made a file in SVN:

  https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/commons/trunks-proper/**
CHALLENGE.txt

If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
elimination,
the components that should be considered for dormancy.

I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)

Hen

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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-14 Thread Benedikt Ritter



> Am 15.10.2013 um 07:14 schrieb Dave Brosius :
> 
> Perhaps for new users, however there are lots of projects currently using 
> these libraries. We are extending the middle finger to them by doing this. I 
> would come away thinking i'm not going to risk using any Apache library, if I 
> they will  just yank away the next project i choose to use sometime in the 
> near future. I'm fine with putting a message on the site that says, this 
> project is in desperate need of supporters, developers, testers, 
> documentation folks, etc, etc. without which maintenance and support will be 
> next to impossible. That would warn new users fairly enough imo.

That's basically what dormant means...

> 
> dave
> 
> 
> 
> A project is only one of these clients needing a fix away from re-engaging.
> 
> On 10/15/2013 12:59 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>> Three values jump out to me:
>> 
>> * First is for our users. Having code available that no one is supporting
>> while giving the appearance of support (ie: active Commons) is a bad
>> experience.
>> * Second (generally for the ASF) is that if we have code we can't maintain,
>> because there is no one who can handle some critical issue, then we
>> shouldn't be treating it as a live project. That's always been something
>> Commons could get around by knowing that some of the committers will dig
>> into unknown component A and figure out what the critical issue is in the
>> rare times it's come up.
>> * Third is that it provides focus to not be trying to fix all of the
>> inactive components when we change the build or site. Though perhaps we
>> just leave it all broken anyway :)
>> 
>> Hen
>> 
>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Dave Brosius  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing projects.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
 
 I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
 to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone
 can
 present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
 Proper.
 
 I've made a file in SVN:
 
  https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/commons/trunks-proper/**
 CHALLENGE.txt
 
 If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
 the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
 elimination,
 the components that should be considered for dormancy.
 
 I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
 
 Hen
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-14 Thread Dave Brosius

Perhaps for new users, however there are lots of projects currently 
using these libraries. We are extending the middle finger to them by 
doing this. I would come away thinking i'm not going to risk using any 
Apache library, if I they will  just yank away the next project i choose 
to use sometime in the near future. I'm fine with putting a message on 
the site that says, this project is in desperate need of supporters, 
developers, testers, documentation folks, etc, etc. without which 
maintenance and support will be next to impossible. That would warn new 
users fairly enough imo.


dave



A project is only one of these clients needing a fix away from re-engaging.

On 10/15/2013 12:59 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:

Three values jump out to me:

* First is for our users. Having code available that no one is supporting
while giving the appearance of support (ie: active Commons) is a bad
experience.
* Second (generally for the ASF) is that if we have code we can't maintain,
because there is no one who can handle some critical issue, then we
shouldn't be treating it as a live project. That's always been something
Commons could get around by knowing that some of the committers will dig
into unknown component A and figure out what the critical issue is in the
rare times it's come up.
* Third is that it provides focus to not be trying to fix all of the
inactive components when we change the build or site. Though perhaps we
just leave it all broken anyway :)

Hen

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Dave Brosius  wrote:


I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing projects.




On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:


I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone
can
present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
Proper.

I've made a file in SVN:

  https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/commons/trunks-proper/**
CHALLENGE.txt

If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
elimination,
the components that should be considered for dormancy.

I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)

Hen



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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-14 Thread Henri Yandell

Three values jump out to me:

* First is for our users. Having code available that no one is supporting
while giving the appearance of support (ie: active Commons) is a bad
experience.
* Second (generally for the ASF) is that if we have code we can't maintain,
because there is no one who can handle some critical issue, then we
shouldn't be treating it as a live project. That's always been something
Commons could get around by knowing that some of the committers will dig
into unknown component A and figure out what the critical issue is in the
rare times it's come up.
* Third is that it provides focus to not be trying to fix all of the
inactive components when we change the build or site. Though perhaps we
just leave it all broken anyway :)

Hen

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Dave Brosius  wrote:

> I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing projects.
>
>
>
>
> On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>
>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone
>> can
>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
>> Proper.
>>
>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>
>>  https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/commons/trunks-proper/**
>> CHALLENGE.txt
>>
>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
>> elimination,
>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>>
>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>>
>> Hen
>>
>>
>
> --**--**-
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> dev-unsubscribe@commons.**apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org
>
>

Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-14 Thread Dave Brosius


I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing projects.



On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:

I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone can
present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
Proper.

I've made a file in SVN:

 https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt

If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by elimination,
the components that should be considered for dormancy.

I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)

Hen




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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-14 Thread Henri Yandell

svn co -N https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper

Happy to move it, also happy to have people pick up a bit of SVN usefulness
:)

I've lifted the definition to:

"(you monitor commits, JIRA, mail, and develop code for that component)"




On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Phil Steitz  wrote:

> On 10/14/13 9:14 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
> > On 10/14/13 8:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
> >> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should
> move
> >> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone
> can
> >> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
> >> Proper.
> >>
> >> I've made a file in SVN:
> >>
> >>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
> >>
> >> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively
> monitor
> >> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
> elimination,
> >> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
> > Thanks, Hen!  Lets see who has a pulse ;)
> >
> > Lets also let non-committers chime in, though.  I will volunteer to
> > be commit monkey on this file for anyone not a commons committer who
> > really wants to work on something.
> >
> > Phil
>
> I just killed a checkout that was grabbing all trunks to get this
> file.  Is there a way to check out just the file, or can we move it
> somewhere easier to get to?
>
> I would also propose a slightly higher bar for "blood donors" - you
> need to not just "monitor" but be willing to actually do work (as in
> apply patches, work on issues, help drive toward release...)
>
> Phil
> >> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
> >>
> >> Hen
> >>
>
>
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>
>

Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-14 Thread Adrian Crum

Thanks! I'm a committer in the sandbox, but I haven't ventured into 
proper yet. I was hoping to get Commons Convert promoted to proper 
someday. In the meantime I would be happy to work on CSV.


Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 10/14/2013 9:32 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:

On 10/14/13 9:26 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:

I am willing to help out with CSV. ID = adrianc.

Done :)

Phil


Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 10/14/2013 9:14 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:

On 10/14/13 8:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:

I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and
should move
to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that
anyone can
present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of
Commons
Proper.

I've made a file in SVN:


https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt


If committers could put their ids next to components they
actively monitor
the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
elimination,
the components that should be considered for dormancy.


Thanks, Hen!  Lets see who has a pulse ;)

Lets also let non-committers chime in, though.  I will volunteer to
be commit monkey on this file for anyone not a commons committer who
really wants to work on something.

Phil


I propose we review the state of the file at the start of
November :)

Hen




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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On 10/14/13 9:26 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
> I am willing to help out with CSV. ID = adrianc.
Done :)

Phil
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 10/14/2013 9:14 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>> On 10/14/13 8:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and
>>> should move
>>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that
>>> anyone can
>>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of
>>> Commons
>>> Proper.
>>>
>>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>>
>>> 
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
>>>
>>>
>>> If committers could put their ids next to components they
>>> actively monitor
>>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
>>> elimination,
>>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>>
>> Thanks, Hen!  Lets see who has a pulse ;)
>>
>> Lets also let non-committers chime in, though.  I will volunteer to
>> be commit monkey on this file for anyone not a commons committer who
>> really wants to work on something.
>>
>> Phil
>>>
>>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of
>>> November :)
>>>
>>> Hen
>>>
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org
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>>
>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

On 10/14/13 9:14 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
> On 10/14/13 8:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone can
>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
>> Proper.
>>
>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
>>
>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by elimination,
>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
> Thanks, Hen!  Lets see who has a pulse ;)
>
> Lets also let non-committers chime in, though.  I will volunteer to
> be commit monkey on this file for anyone not a commons committer who
> really wants to work on something.
>
> Phil

I just killed a checkout that was grabbing all trunks to get this
file.  Is there a way to check out just the file, or can we move it
somewhere easier to get to?

I would also propose a slightly higher bar for "blood donors" - you
need to not just "monitor" but be willing to actually do work (as in
apply patches, work on issues, help drive toward release...)

Phil
>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>>
>> Hen
>>


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

2013-10-14 Thread Adrian Crum


I am willing to help out with CSV. ID = adrianc.

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 10/14/2013 9:14 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:

On 10/14/13 8:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:

I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone can
present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
Proper.

I've made a file in SVN:

 https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt

If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by elimination,
the components that should be considered for dormancy.


Thanks, Hen!  Lets see who has a pulse ;)

Lets also let non-committers chime in, though.  I will volunteer to
be commit monkey on this file for anyone not a commons committer who
really wants to work on something.

Phil


I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)

Hen




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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant