[documentation-dev] Re: PING Andy: Good work on inquiries
Am Dienstag, 23. August 2011, um 10:53:19 schrieb TJ Frazier: > I have one question: do you have a way to know whether the poster is > or is not subscribed to the list? That is, whether to use "Reply" or > "Reply all"? I notice that you have done both. Hi TJ :) A quick comparison of the mail headers shows an X-Validation-by header in some - moderated? - mails. So most probably the moderated mails come with this header, and can easily be filtered or flagged. Regards Nino -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@documentation.openoffice.org with Subject: help
Re: [documentation-dev] Straw Poll: Active membership in the OOo Doc Project?
On Tuesday 03 August 2010 14:45, Clayton wrote: > If someone was to ask me.. roughly how many people are active members > of the OOo Documentation project I don't think I could give an answer > or even a reasonable guess. Why not? You are one of the (co)leads, so you should... ;-) As for me, I'd suggest (it's just one possibility) to look at what happens on the communication channels. So you can count the number of participants e.g. in the Mailing list in the last - say - three or six months, and divide by the number of mails written. For the last 3 months (since May 4th) in the doc-dev list I count 25 members and 73 posts, so we have 2.9 posts/person on average. Top activists are: Jean & TJ (9 posts) and myself (7 posts - oh god - I obviously often cannot hold my tongue) followed by Claire (6) and three people with 4 posts. So we have 43 posts by 7 people, i.e. less than 10% most active producing 60% of the activity. But this does not show how many things have happen behind the curtains. You really should have a look on the agenda for 2010 and see what has been accomplished and what not - and for whom it is of interest. Wiki category cleanup should be mentioned (and discussed, so more people can take advantage of the improvments), updates and publishing of the UG's are important milestons too ... and all those other little things I don't remember. > If I look at: > http://documentation.openoffice.org/servlets/ProjectMemberList the > list goes on forever. The vast majority are not active, and never > have been active members. Such full lists do not distinguish active from ancient members. > Why has this question come up? Well, I'm working on ideas for an OOo > Documentation Project presentation to be given at OOoCon 2010 in > Budapest. I'm working on a few ideas (brainstorming at this point) > surrounding the people who work so hard on the docs... how many there > are, what we are doing (or not doing) to mentor the new members > among many other ideas. The same questions as above: how many User Guides, and how many chapters do we have in total, how many have been updated by how many (different) people on average? (I don't know if it's possible to collect all the data from the logs, but one should try. At least in the Wiki it should be doable. > So, how do we find out how many active or semi-active project members > we have? Would it work to create a table on the OOoWiki and have > everyone add their OOoWiki userID (and maybe pet document within the > Doc Project) be a way to get a bit of a Straw Poll of active members? > What do you guys think? Why not collect a "done"-list from people? E.g. you could ask "what has happened and what do you think is most important?" or similar questions. Or even "what are you interested in?"... BTW: What about download numbers? Which chapters / Guides have been downloaded most often? From the wiki or from OOoAuthors? PDF or ODT? Is there a variation in time (e.g. w/ respect to new software versions release dates) or do the numbers increase - or decrease? What about translations? How many languages, how many chapters translated ... There are many interesting questions I think. Maybe others have even more questions... Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] [PING Nino] %mu in German
On Saturday 10 July 2010 01:27, TJ Frazier wrote: > Thank you very much for your invaluable insights into the world of > localization. I found enough information to fix the German > documentation on the wiki (although "symbol.src" does not list German > as a language; French, Swedish, Italian...). Great! Thanks, TJ! > Other names are localized as well, notably "jota/JOTA". It will take > me a while to compose a note for the English version of the Math > Guide / Writer Guide (unless someone beats me to it) to the effect > that these symbols (Greek and Special) may be localized, but the file > itself will be coded in a universal format. What I generally notice is that (at least in my perception) the User Guides are mainly focussed on procedural instructions (how to achieve a certain goal). Only very rarely they bring to mind the fact that OOo is a "ODF-Dokument generating and manipulating Toolset". (Don't know if this knowledge would be helpful or not, just wanted to share my impression) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] [PING Nino] %mu in German
On Friday 09 July 2010 14:09, TJ Frazier wrote: > On 7/9/2010 04:17, Nino Novak wrote: > > On Tuesday 06 July 2010 18:25, TJ Frazier wrote: > > > On 7/6/2010 11:58, Sigrid Carrera wrote: > > ... > > I changed it in the Wiki, and sent a mail to the Translator. > > One quick question: where did you change something? The only German > version I found was for Writer, Version 2: So I obviously forgot to save my changes :-( But now they're in. But the mentioned mail is still in the drafts folder! Oh dear. Looking forward to better times. > >> ... > >> Thanks much for the confirmation. Yes, we will have to change the > >> guide, but we don't know what to say, yet. Either we need a > >> caution in the German version that there is an error, or a note in > >> all languages that these keywords may be localized. > > > > IMHO, for the Guides it does not play a role why something is > > implemented. > > I suggest that it is important for the Guides to warn that their > instructions may not apply to the user's particular version, and > especially important to warn of changes to come (such as fixing an > error). This means that the Guide writers have to do the homework, so > that thousands of users don't have to. That's right, I did not think of it. > > There are 3 obstacles: > > I've got no working OOo3 installation ATM, > > 2nd, I've never been using Math and > > 3rd, my time is presently very very limited. > > > I can really sympathize with that... :-( Thank you :-) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] [PING Nino] %mu in German
Hi all, On Tuesday 06 July 2010 18:25, TJ Frazier wrote: > On 7/6/2010 11:58, Sigrid Carrera wrote: > > > I'm not Nino, but I'm replying anyways. Thanks, Sigrid (see below) > > I just tested inserting µ with the Formula editor. Indeed, the user > > is right - %mu doesn't work in the German version. You have to use > > %my. Same is true for %nu and %ny. What about "%[uU]psilon"? > > I guess, we have to change the guide then. ;) I changed it in the Wiki, and sent a mail to the Translator. > ... > Thanks much for the confirmation. Yes, we will have to change the > guide, but we don't know what to say, yet. Either we need a caution > in the German version that there is an error, or a note in all > languages that these keywords may be localized. IMHO, for the Guides it does not play a role why something is implemented. > I think the next step is to ask the localization folks whether this > is deliberate or accidental. If you know how to do that, please do; > otherwise, Nino will know. --/tj/ Thanks for your optimism ;-) There are 3 obstacles: I've got no working OOo3 installation ATM, 2nd, I've never been using Math and 3rd, my time is presently very very limited. So maybe anybody else takes the lead, if not it has to wait (and might be worth an issue) Warm regards, Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Accessibility FAQ.
On Saturday 05 June 2010 11:39, Nino Novak wrote: > Hi Sophie, > > On Friday 04 June 2010 19:26, Sophie wrote: > > I've begin to collect a FAQ dedicated to accessibility > > where can it be found? ok, I found it myself (in the wiki) :-) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Accessibility FAQ.
Hi Sophie, On Friday 04 June 2010 19:26, Sophie wrote: > I've begin to collect a FAQ dedicated to accessibility where can it be found? Regards, Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Creating Daisy files
On Tuesday 04 May 2010 21:59, Andrew Jensen wrote: > ah - well, I'm having some success now, getting files that work well > under windows AMSI, but not so good under Linux with dbr > > ... but I;m learning... did you read the manual? AFAIR it explains a bit how the extension works. > will push on, and drop todays files onto a server for others to check > out when I'm done today. Good! If there are any testers, I'd be interested too as until now, nobody has given feedback on my translation ;-( If I have the time, I'll try harder to install full daisybook capabilities on my system. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Creating Daisy files
Good evening, On Tuesday 04 May 2010 14:11, Andrew Jensen wrote: > Hi, > > Hoping someone can give me some guidance here. > > I would like your opinion on the feasibility of converting our User > Guids from ODT to Daisy file format. > > First - has anyone done this already? Yep, my humbleness, but just for trying it out for fun. And only produced XML-output as I have no TTS tool installed (or better I did not try hard enough to get it working). > Second - does anyone here have any experience with doing this? No. I just followed a call on the l10n list to localize the odt2daisy extension. In order to translate the terms, I had to try it out myself (as I've never come in touch with this kind of problem before). > Third - anyone have any experience working with the odt2Daisy > extension? The extension "renders" a text document acoustically and implements certain navigation commands, so far my understanding. No further experience. > Thanks for any help, comments or thoughts. It's fascinating, but I did not have the time to walk till the end. One problem might be the pictures. Another all kind of not-allowed markup (which can not be rendered resp. should be migrated to "DAISYstuff" markup before the extension is run). You should look for people from the target group as only they can tell you if the produced books are feasible or not. Regards, Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
[documentation-dev] UG3 - Which link to use?
Hi, sorry for crossposting, but i could not decide which list fits better. As there will always be a time gap for the User Guide translations, I thought of putting links (i.e. written URLs) into some of the translations (pointing to the appropriate english UG Chapters). Which URL would you suggest as best practice? My personal preference is single-chapter PDF. I found them on two places (in this example, it's App. B of GS3): 1) on oooautors: http://www.oooauthors.org/english/userguide3/gs3/V32_published/0116GS3-OOoBackground.pdf/at_download/file 2) in the wiki: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/images/9/9c/0116GS3-OOoBackground.pdf Any other/better places/ideas? Would it be better to take the whole-book version? Which link has the best chance to be kept most actual in the mid range time frame? The problem with both seems to be, that the links point to the physical location of the document and not to a generic place, where the most actual version of the document can be replaced "silently" without changing the link. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
[documentation-dev] Setup Guide on doc.ooo
I found this page from an external link: http://documentation.openoffice.org/setup_guide2/index.html It's obviously not up to date, no link to v3. I'd suggest: 1) to update the page, at least set a link to v3 Documents (on http://documentation.openoffice.org/setup_guide3/index.html ) 2) to set up http://documentation.openoffice.org/setup_guide to redirect (or symlink) to the most recent page of the above, so this link can be published preferently Besides - how are these documents related to the wiki documents? And where is this relation documented? It should be more obvious, more intuitive IMHO, where a master document resides and where it is mirrored, and where the most recent (editable) version can be found, and so on. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Downloadable HOW-TOs
On Thursday 04 March 2010 08:15, Clayton wrote: > On 03/03/2010 10:18 PM, Andy Brown wrote: > > Hi all. > > > > I have found the how-to section on the wiki, my question is there a > > link that I can use to download those files without going through > > all the hoops? > > > > I am looking to add/replace the files that come with the ISO > > downloads. > > There is no "easy" one-click way to download any multi-page part of > any website or Wiki - at least not from within the website/Wiki > without some preparation. > > The OooWiki uses Books for this, but someone has to create the Book - > they cannot (at this point) be auto-generated. but it's definitely a nice-to-have feature for the documentation wiki to have a mechanism which - say - automatically updates existing "official" wikibooks each time one of the underlying documents is changed, e.g. on a daily basis. Maybe it's doable with a script/bot/cronjob already? TJ ? ;-) my 2¢ Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] User Guides on Wiki
On Tuesday 23 February 2010 23:04, me myself wrote: > MediaWiki Extension plus Macro by > TJFrazier plus a lot of manual corrections. FYI - I just translated my personal "best practice" notes into English, see http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Nnino/ODT2Wiki N. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] User Guides on Wiki
On Tuesday 23 February 2010 22:01, Paolo Pozzan wrote: > Hello! > While we (the italian team) keep on translating the wiki pages, we > noted that some sections are the guides contained in OOoAuthors but > "wikized". We already translated some of those guides, so we wuold > like to know what are those ones that need to be converted and if > there is any standard way to do so (manually copy-paste or Sun > MediaWiki Extension for OOo...). > I don't know if this is the right place. Maybe auth...@user-faq is > more suitable? Paolo, the same question I asked 5 months ago for the German User Guide Translation. Short answer: MediaWiki Extension plus Macro by TJFrazier plus a lot of manual corrections. You can see the full answers here: http://user-faq.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=authors&by=thread&from=2274618 > Last question: to your knowledge are there any other sections in the > wiki that are worth translating but are just a copy from another > source? Others have to answer this question as I don't know. But, I'd suppose there are quite some good documents in any native language :-) Ciao, Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Editing
On Friday 12 February 2010 22:24, Claire Wood wrote: > Can anyone help me please? It's 9.25pm UK time and I'd like to > locate the spreadsheet Jean is talking about (below) so I can make a > start on this bright and early tomorrow. The only spreadsheet I know of is http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Asjap9kyrWy_cEpMNl84S3NpVElHTUNDaWZkNlB6V2c&hl=en HTH Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Top 25 Technical Writing Blogs
On Wednesday 10 February 2010 16:37, Claire Wood wrote:
> http://www.invesp.com/blog-rank/Technical_Writing
Claire,
being by no means a technical writer ;-) I just clicked a bit around in
the best ranked blogs and just found this nice article by Anne Gentle
("Putting the User in User Assistance"):
http://writersua.com/articles/user/index.html
Not having much time at the moment to dig deeper into the mentioned
techniques I just thought that there could be some interesting points
or aspects for us (eg. wikislicing to obtain not only pdf deliverables
but also another wiki) we haven't thought of yet.
I just wanted to mention it - maybe someone else finds it interesting,
too.
Thanks for sharing the link :-)
Nino
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Re: [documentation-dev] Welcome to the OpenOffice.org Documentation project!
On Thursday 03 December 2009 21:05, Clayton wrote: > >> It's been a while, and I'd like to welcome our newest members of > >> the OpenOffice.org documentation project. > > > > Clayton, from where do you have this member list? > > When soemone joins the Doc Project via the main OOo website, Jean and > I get an email, and we go assign them Observer rights [1]. I collect > up those emails and every once in a while I send out a short welcome > email. ok, I just read Jean's answer. > The overall project membership list is very long, and not real > informative [2]. But maybe their last login shows up somewhere in a logfile? > I cannot say how many people are active, or even > ever came back after joining the project. The wiki Special:Statistics is better: We have presently 27.082 Registered Users 71 Active Users (within last 7 days) (maybe you could tweek the page to show the number of active users in a longer time period? last month or last year would fit better, I think) And still I'll love to see how many users do how many edits on the wiki - not only the users with the most edits are interesting, but also users, which show up once or twice and never come back again: do they also add value to the wiki/doc/...? How much? But this is P4 or less ;-) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Welcome to the OpenOffice.org Documentation project!
On Thursday 03 December 2009 21:02, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > > Clayton and I get notices when people ask (on the website) for > approval to be new members. One of us (usually Clayton) approves them > (rarely do we decline a request). Going back through the recent > requests generates the "new members" list. ok, thanks. I was wondering why rarely anybody replied to this mail (to the list). Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Welcome to the OpenOffice.org Documentation project!
On Thursday 03 December 2009 09:55, Clayton wrote: > It's been a while, and I'd like to welcome our newest members of the > OpenOffice.org documentation project. Clayton, from where do you have this member list? Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wikidoc: {{DISPLAYTITLE:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}} works fine
On Wednesday 02 December 2009 13:04, Clayton wrote: > >> (is there anybody interested in my findings at all?) > > > > I am very interested in learning anything I can about how to do the > > user guides better on the wiki. > > I'm definitely interested too. Ok, then I at least won't feel bad at that point ,-) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
[documentation-dev] Wikidoc: {{DISPLAYTITLE:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}} works fine
Means that it can be transcluded from a Template and the transcluding page will show its (path stripped) Subpagename as Page Title. So it is not necessary to put the explicit displaytitle in every single page (if it's been done only for stripping a Page's "path"). Nino (is there anybody interested in my findings at all?) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
[documentation-dev] Bot Delete Job (was: Re: [documentation-dev] Using relative path names on Wiki pages)
On Monday 30 November 2009 11:50, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > > BTW, can somebody with the permission to do so please clear out > > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Category:Candidates_for_sp > >eedy_deletion Esp. the categories should go because the longer they > > stay, the higher is the risk that they will be used again (although > > they are redundant). Also, when these pages are gone, its easier to > > identify other problematic pages using the "SpecialPages". > > I've just started the WikiBot on this task. It should be cleaned up > fairly soon. does the bot check "what links here" and the page history also? I mean, the present procedure with the Template:Delete does not make sense, if the bot "just deletes" the labeled pages ;-) (Then in my eyes, users could be given the delete right, too) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Using relative path names on Wiki pages
On Monday 30 November 2009 13:11, Juergen Schmidt wrote: > Nino Novak wrote: > > On Monday 30 November 2009 11:20, bjoern michaelsen - Sun > > Microsystems - > > > > Hamburg Germany wrote: > >> Http-Links in the same Wiki are evil and stupid. > > > > I just replaced them all :-) > > (at least those I could find with Search) > > mmh, this can be probably done with a wiki bot automatically. A bot > running all 3 months or so and search for URLs starting with > htpp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki. All matching http links > will be converted to wiki links. They did not follow the same scheme, some were related to Files/Images, others were only pointing to a file... The most strange was one with a SUBMIT-Action: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/index.php?title=SZ/TOI_Events&diff=prev&oldid=150548 ;-) But feel free to click at the diffs and to enhance the wikibot with all the unusual cases: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Nnino Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Using relative path names on Wiki pages
On Monday 30 November 2009 11:20, bjoern michaelsen - Sun Microsystems - Hamburg Germany wrote: > Http-Links in the same Wiki are evil and stupid. I just replaced them all :-) (at least those I could find with Search) > Most importantly > those links do not show up in "What links here" That's one thing. A less important is or could be, that they make problems when mirroring or moving the whole Wiki to another URL. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Using relative path names on Wiki pages
On Monday 30 November 2009 10:48, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > Nino Novak wrote: > > ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > >> Are > >> there any "gotchas" that anyone can think of with using relative > >> links? What about with transcluded content? The User Guides use a > >> lot of transluded pages > > > > Where? I only once saw a transcluded content (AFAIR a function > > reference page was transcluded in a Calc Guide or something the > > like) > > I had set up 20 or 30 or more. The Math Guide shares several pages > with the Writer Guide and Getting Started, and I had tried to share > other pages between Getting Started and various other books on topics > like PDF export and using Tools > Options. ok, I see. And that could be exactly the use case for relative links: if you transclude only one page, it does not matter. But if you transclude a whole "branch" with several levels of subpages: this is much easier with relative links. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Using relative path names on Wiki pages
On Monday 30 November 2009 09:26, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > > But that's not what I meant. What I meant is like in the file > > system: absolute paths start at the root. So e.g. (imaginary) > > [[Documentation/UserGuide/GettingStarted/chapter1]] > > is an absolute path, while relative paths start with the present > > document's path, so to link to the above Page from another chapter, > > let's say from > > [[Documentation/UserGuide/GettingStarted/chapter2]] > > you can simply write [[../chapter1]] > > Relative links are not used because hardly anyone knows about them. That was my impression, too, therefore I started to spread the word :-) > I still find that people are using the full http path for links > within the Wiki... so a link to the next page shows as an external > link instead of an internal link. :-( Ok, but is that a big problem? > > The only discrepancy is that path names starting with a slash are > > interpreted as childs from the present document. So from the page > > [[Documentation/UserGuide/GettingStarted]] > > the link > > [[/chapter1]] and [[/chapter2]] lead to the above subpages (and > > do not represent absolute pathnames like in dos or unix filesystem > > naming conventions). > > Mmmm within the Wiki structure, this makes sense though. The base > page should never be slash something (have a leading slash). Some > people, myself included, have created base pages with a leading > slash, and it creates all sorts of interesting problems. > > I can see how using relative links would help with translations. Maybe Templates could be reused better for different languages (just a guess, I did not think about it in depth) > Are > there any "gotchas" that anyone can think of with using relative > links? What about with transcluded content? The User Guides use a > lot of transluded pages Where? I only once saw a transcluded content (AFAIR a function reference page was transcluded in a Calc Guide or something the like) > Changing existing pages over... ouch. Not sure the WikiBot can > handle this. Doing it manually would be a painful process. Ideas? From my point of view: * relative links can be helpful for certain purposes. * in most cases, however, normal internal links with the full page path are ok. So we should be aware of them but use them only where it really helps. My own experience with relative links comes from MoinMoin as there are some nice builtin features (like a subpage navigation bar which updates automatically on any subpage creation - just like dpl but with much simpler syntax). I started to use relative links in the DE/WriterGuideTOC Template as I prepared the whole page tree under my own User Page and only later moved it to its final place. This could be done without changing anything but the starting point. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Using relative path names on Wiki pages
On Saturday 28 November 2009 17:51, Nino Novak wrote: > On Saturday 28 November 2009 17:27, T. J. Frazier wrote: > > Nino Novak wrote: > > > I just noticed that in many places, Pages as well as Templates, > > > absolute path names were used for links to associated pages. This > > > makes moving and translation more difficult than if relative path > > > names were used. > > > > > > It's not a great thing, but maybe the one or the other didn't > > > even know of the possibility to use relative pathnames. > > > > > > Nino > > > > Thanks for the reminder. I've had the Wiki Editing Policy on my > > to-do list, for absolute -> relative links, for a week. Finally did > > it. We want to set a good example. > > Just saw that you transformed external -> internal links in a > document. > > But that's not what I meant. What I meant is like in the file system: > absolute paths start at the root. So e.g. (imaginary) > [[Documentation/UserGuide/GettingStarted/chapter1]] > is an absolute path, while relative paths start with the present > document's path, so to link to the above Page from another chapter, > let's say from > [[Documentation/UserGuide/GettingStarted/chapter2]] > you can simply write [[../chapter1]] > > The only discrepancy is that path names starting with a slash are > interpreted as childs from the present document. So from the page > [[Documentation/UserGuide/GettingStarted]] > the link > [[/chapter1]] and [[/chapter2]] lead to the above subpages (and do > not represent absolute pathnames like in dos or unix filesystem > naming conventions). The interesting thing is with Templates: if you use relative paths in Templates, they are interpreted starting from the page which includes the template. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Using relative path names on Wiki pages
On Saturday 28 November 2009 17:27, T. J. Frazier wrote: > Nino Novak wrote: > > I just noticed that in many places, Pages as well as Templates, > > absolute path names were used for links to associated pages. This > > makes moving and translation more difficult than if relative path > > names were used. > > > > It's not a great thing, but maybe the one or the other didn't even > > know of the possibility to use relative pathnames. > > > > Nino > > Thanks for the reminder. I've had the Wiki Editing Policy on my to-do > list, for absolute -> relative links, for a week. Finally did it. We > want to set a good example. Just saw that you transformed external -> internal links in a document. But that's not what I meant. What I meant is like in the file system: absolute paths start at the root. So e.g. (imaginary) [[Documentation/UserGuide/GettingStarted/chapter1]] is an absolute path, while relative paths start with the present document's path, so to link to the above Page from another chapter, let's say from [[Documentation/UserGuide/GettingStarted/chapter2]] you can simply write [[../chapter1]] The only discrepancy is that path names starting with a slash are interpreted as childs from the present document. So from the page [[Documentation/UserGuide/GettingStarted]] the link [[/chapter1]] and [[/chapter2]] lead to the above subpages (and do not represent absolute pathnames like in dos or unix filesystem naming conventions). Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
[documentation-dev] Using relative path names on Wiki pages
I just noticed that in many places, Pages as well as Templates, absolute path names were used for links to associated pages. This makes moving and translation more difficult than if relative path names were used. It's not a great thing, but maybe the one or the other didn't even know of the possibility to use relative pathnames. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Documentation Category cleanup
On Wednesday 25 November 2009 20:02, Clayton wrote: > > From other wikis I'm used to expect Category Entries at the top of > > the page, not at the bottom. It makes life much easier ;-) > > Do you mean the [[Category]] entry? Yep > I don't think there is any rule one way or the other on the OOoWiki. So I tend to propose to put it at page start. Rationale: - can be edited quicker (when editing manually) - does not get lost when People add things at page bottom Nino > Somewhere along the line, people added Category coding to the bottom > of the page.. I'm guessing because that's also where the Category > shows up, and it seemed like a good idea at the time. :-) > > > C. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Documentation Category cleanup
On Wednesday 25 November 2009 18:54, T. J. Frazier wrote: > Nino Novak wrote: > >> # Documentation/DE/How Tos/Filme in Impress unter Linux ohne Java > > > > done. > > Maybe not quite. Still shows in Cat:Doc. :-/ From other wikis I'm used to expect Category Entries at the top of the page, not at the bottom. It makes life much easier ;-) Thanks Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Documentation Category cleanup
On Wednesday 25 November 2009 15:38, Clayton wrote: > Nino: Would you be able to take care of correcting the categories on > the orphaned DE pages? > # DE/Documentation/OOo3 User Guides > # DE/Documentation/OOoAuthors User Manual done > # Documentation/DE/Dashboard/TestPage It's a l10n test Page by Fpe - IMO should go to a Test or Sandbox Category. I didn't find one. > # Documentation/DE/How Tos > # Documentation/DE/How Tos/Erste Schritte in Impress2 > # Documentation/DE/How Tos/Filme in Impress unter Linux ohne Java done. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Messed up DE categories
On Wednesday 25 November 2009 08:31, Clayton wrote: > > Sorry, I just reverted your edit on DE/Documentation and now I > > don't find the mess any more. I had the impression that a whole > > bunch of pages were changed. Maybe I confused them with the (few) > > pages under the Documentation/DE tree. > > > > Next time I will investigate more accurately. > > > :-) No worries. Now I'm confused though... > > What's the difference between the DE/Documentation category and the > DE/Dokumentation category? I see in the text of DE/Dcoumentation > that you note there is a parallel DE/Dokumentation. Why have both? > It seems to be quite redundant (looking at it from the outside). DE/Dokumentation is the standard as NL users do understand it. DE/Documentation has been added only to follow wiki policy for translated (and synced) pages. The two are concurrent ATM (which is bad) but I don't see a solution yet, as both have advantages and if one "wins", it's easy to change the other. DE/Dokumentation is kept "clean" and should not deliver irrelevant stuff, while DE/Documentation is preliminary work still. In order not to lose pages, DE/Documentation is located "beneath" DE/Documentation, which might cause even more confusion. Maybe this could be solved by revision flagging, but I don't have the time to test it ATM. > This seems to be the source of the problem after you mentioned > using localized categories, and pointed at DE/Dokumentation, I went > with the idea... and added a DE page to that category. Yep, but the page belonged to the synced stuff (and contained just some preliminary stuff, but no valuable info). If you consider this a bad practice, please suggest a better one. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Messed up DE categories
On Tuesday 24 November 2009 15:53, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > On 11/24/09 15:37, Nino Novak wrote: > > Clayton, you changed several Categories und the DE/ Page tree. Now, > > to me all seems messed up. > > The only DE page I touched (outside of the WikiBot) was: > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/DE/Documentation > How did the one change mess things up? Are there other pages that > are in the DE category that were changed today? Sorry, I just reverted your edit on DE/Documentation and now I don't find the mess any more. I had the impression that a whole bunch of pages were changed. Maybe I confused them with the (few) pages under the Documentation/DE tree. Next time I will investigate more accurately. > > Could you explain the rationale behind your changes? > > Ummm.. cleaning up: > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Category:Documentation ok - I don't find the problematic pages at the moment. Maybe they will re-emerge one day, then I'll ask again. Sorry for confusion. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
[documentation-dev] Messed up DE categories
Clayton, you changed several Categories und the DE/ Page tree. Now, to me all seems messed up. Could you explain the rationale behind your changes? BTW when editing a page, there is a comment field - I'd like to propose to make more use of this field as it explains the changes made to a page. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] FlaggedRevs is installed in the Wiki
On Tuesday 24 November 2009 13:03, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > > I don't believe that we will need Autopromotion in the near future > > as this makes only sense in Wikis where hundreds of new > > contributors register daily. So hopefully one day... but not now. > > In the end, I'd guess we'll have 30-40 reviewers maximally. > > True enough. I'm not in a rush to set Autopromotion just yet... but > am considering it.. say for users that have done 500 edits or > something like that... it's something we can consider. BTW: can we see these users (some days ago I asked for some statistics, now for example in this context, it would be interesting to know how many contributors have made how many contributions) > > As pages are obviously flagged "unreviewed", the active > > contributors will probably notice it themselves. > > Ha... or maybe they won't notice :-) At least, I did ;-) > > To see the difference I created a new user Nnino2, could you please > > give this user editor rights? > > Done. Thankyou Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] FlaggedRevs is installed in the Wiki
On Tuesday 24 November 2009 09:31, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > I don't know if any of you noticed it yet... I've managed to install > the FlaggedRevs extension into the OOoWiki. Great! ... > I still have to tweak the settings for who has reviewer/editor > rights... for now I have to assign that right manually. I can set it > so that any user who has made a certain number of edits etc. has > reviewer/editor rights... (called Autopromotion). I haven't got that > far in the options yet. I don't believe that we will need Autopromotion in the near future as this makes only sense in Wikis where hundreds of new contributors register daily. So hopefully one day... but not now. In the end, I'd guess we'll have 30-40 reviewers maximally. > So, we can play with this extension - I'll announce it to the rest of > the Wiki editing community in a few days (after we've had a chance to > play a bit, and I've finished tweaking the initial settings). As pages are obviously flagged "unreviewed", the active contributors will probably notice it themselves. > If you don't have editor access, let me know, and I'll add you to the > list. To see the difference I created a new user Nnino2, could you please give this user editor rights? Thanks, Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wiki: Category:Documentation overloaded
On Monday 23 November 2009 10:30, bjoern michaelsen - Sun Microsystems - Hamburg Germany wrote: > On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 20:24:04 +0100 > > Nino Novak wrote: > > On Sunday 22 November 2009 18:30, Clayton wrote: > > > Part of the prob on the Wiki is that thousands of pages have no > > > Category at all.. :-( > > > > (For me, this is not a problem) > > [...] > > (I really don't understand what's better with unusable categories > > than with uncategorized pages) > > Uncategorized pages are: > - ownerless wiki pages are ownerless in general as long as nobody takes care of them. > - thus become unmaintained, outdated or stay incomplete they do not become unmaintained because of lacking the appropriate category - they lack their category because they are unmaintained > - allow the same topic to be covered by multiple pages to contradict > themselves This is far less evil than having good but unusable categories > - still might show up on searches and lure users away from the > maintained documentation That does not change with giving them a (wrong) category > - make the wiki-wide maintaince using > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Special:SpecialPages > harder Not at all. They are clearly identifiable. With a wrong category they are lost. > So they are Evil(tm). And it is a lot easier to "push down" pages in > the category hierarchy as someone maintaining the category has it > easier to decide into which subcategory to push a page, where again > it can be picked up by a maintainer for the subcategory(*). Who is actually this "someone maintainig the category"? Who is actually the "maintainer for the subcategory"? > When I find an uncategorized documentation page, I would like to > make the documentation project aware of that, but without having to > learn by what logic the doc project uses categories internally. Then use an appropriate Category and not the wrong one. > > Then I'd suggest to use another category (like Doc/ToDo or similar) > > instead of making the existing Category unusable just for a Test. > > see > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Dashboard/Idea >storm#Category:Documentation.2FIncoming I would guess that > Documentation/Candidate would do? If so, we should consider such a > category for all projects (e.g. Writer/Candidate etc.) using a > consistent naming scheme so one does not have to search the > categories first how this project named their "inbox" (something I > really find annoying about the inconsistent naming of the > NLC-projects). Then you should simply do it (as you have done with many pages before :-) (and not advocate the wrong practice). Nino a little bit confused ... what's going wrong here? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wiki: Category:Documentation overloaded
On Sunday 22 November 2009 23:32, Clayton wrote: > On 11/22/2009 08:24 PM, Nino Novak wrote: > > On Sunday 22 November 2009 18:30, Clayton wrote: > >> Part of the prob on the Wiki is that thousands of pages have no > >> Category at all.. :-( > > > > (For me, this is not a problem) > > Finding something and just general navigating in the ever growing > pile of randomly named pages, both in the Doc part, and in the rest > of the Wiki is becoming more difficult for many people. I'd guess > that you are one of this group :-) since you've noticed that the > Documentation category is quite overcrowded. You use Categories to > navigate around... so do I. > > Pages with no category are just as bad as all pages in one category. No! Uncategorized Pages are found easily with Special:UncategorizedPages! In contrast, wrongly categorized Pages are lost forever if you don't keep track of them manually. And, as long as they are wrong, the category remains unusable :-( > > Then I'd suggest to use another category (like Doc/ToDo or similar) > > instead of making the existing Category unusable just for a Test. > > Sure... that could be done. Then ... what are you waiting for? ... Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wiki: Category:Documentation overloaded
Hello TJ :-) On Sunday 22 November 2009 18:09, T. J. Frazier wrote: > ... > Personally, I suggest that Cat:Doc should > not have any pages in it at all, only sub-categories. Your suggestion is good! +1 > ... And, we need to > decide how to categorize the translations. My personal preference would be to create a Category / (where is the localized term) as subcategory of Documentation (as I have done for DE/Dokumentation) Thus a very comprehensible and usable hierarchy is created :-) > We will probably end up with a large Help:Doc/Categories page, > explaining how we want to do things. Things should be so evident, that they should not need explanation in the best case ;-) > Sounds like great fun, to me! :-) you are dyed-in-the-wool (hopefully I'm picking the correct idiom here) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wiki: Category:Documentation overloaded
On Sunday 22 November 2009 18:30, Clayton wrote: > Part of the prob on the Wiki is that thousands of pages have no > Category at all.. :-( (For me, this is not a problem) > The Calc: pages I moved on Friday were moved to the Doc parent > category partly as a test to be sure I could successfully tinker with > the Categories using the Bot (used a newly developed script for it), > and partly just to start weeding my way through the thousands of > uncategorized pages that are part of the Doc project (it's easier to > clean up the pages once they are broken into at least the parent > categories). Then I'd suggest to use another category (like Doc/ToDo or similar) instead of making the existing Category unusable just for a Test. (I really don't understand what's better with unusable categories than with uncategorized pages) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
[documentation-dev] Wiki: Category:Documentation overloaded
My impression is, that overloading a category impairs its functionality. A Category can be a good instrument for getting an overview but if its contents is scattered through several pages, the overview is lost - which is the case with the Documentation Category at the moment. Please consider consequences before moving thousands of pages into one category, particularly if it's a "main" category like Documentation. A good number is about +/- 100, I think. If a category has significantly more pages or subcategories, it starts to get confusing and - at least in my opinion - further granularization is needed. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wiki Mind Map on OOoWiki
On Friday 20 November 2009 12:20, Clayton wrote: > >>> [1] http://ninonovak.de/ooo/wikimap/ (for testing only) > >> > >> This is as far as I got too. If you enter a search term, you get > >> no graphics back - at least I don't when I try it on your test > >> install - which is the same results I got. > > > > But I do see the graphics - although the parser does not seem to > > recognize the links of the main page - but if you try searching for > > "Development" or "FR" you get nice maps - see screenshot for FR: > > http://ninonovak.de/ooo/wikimap/wikimap-FR.png > > Hmmm... strange. I search on anything... FR, Development, > Documentation etc.. I get a blank where the map should be. I see > we're both on Linux (I'm using openSUSE 11.2 with KDE4.3.3 and > Firefox 3.5.5) so it's not likely a Linux quirk yesterday I was > testing on Solaris and getting the same blank map results. what do you get exactly? Is the html output ok? Or don't you even get the html? Does the flashplayer open? Which flashplayer do you have installed? For mine, Adobe says "You have version 9,0,124,0 installed" Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wiki Mind Map on OOoWiki
On Friday 20 November 2009 11:24, Clayton wrote: > > I just had a little time to try it out[1], there is a small bug in > > getpages.php: the first line before the " > Just delete this empty line and everything should go smooth :-) > > > > Nino > > [1] http://ninonovak.de/ooo/wikimap/ (for testing only) > > This is as far as I got too. If you enter a search term, you get no > graphics back - at least I don't when I try it on your test install - > which is the same results I got. But I do see the graphics - although the parser does not seem to recognize the links of the main page - but if you try searching for "Development" or "FR" you get nice maps - see screenshot for FR: http://ninonovak.de/ooo/wikimap/wikimap-FR.png Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wiki Mind Map on OOoWiki
On Thursday 19 November 2009 18:00, Nino Novak wrote: > On Thursday 19 November 2009 17:51, Clayton wrote: > > On 11/19/2009 05:38 PM, Nino Novak wrote: > > > On Thursday 19 November 2009 15:46, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > > >> One of the requests I got during OOoCon this year was to install > > >> a Wiki Mind Map on the OOoWiki. > > >> > > >> I've been experimenting with this off and on over the past few > > >> days, and not really making a lot of progress. > > >> > > >> Sophie suggested this one: http://www.wikimindmap.org/ If you > > >> click About it will take you to pages where you can download the > > >> source and install on your local Wiki. I've done that, and had > > >> it working for a while... but it only wants to create Mind Maps > > >> of Wikipedia. In theory we should be able to convince it to Map > > >> any Wiki, but I've not managed... all I get is a blank page. > > >> Not sure where to go on this one. > > > > > > What does the php error log file say? > > > > M I should have been clearer... the page loads but where the > > map is supposed to be is just blank. All controls work etc, but > > you zoom in etc on nothing. So, it's not a blank page caused by a > > fault in the php. > > The program loads the wiki page via the php CURL function lib. So > again, please look into the php log and see if calling curl_init > might fail :-) I just had a little time to try it out[1], there is a small bug in getpages.php: the first line before the "http://ninonovak.de/ooo/wikimap/ (for testing only) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wiki Mind Map on OOoWiki
On Thursday 19 November 2009 17:51, Clayton wrote: > On 11/19/2009 05:38 PM, Nino Novak wrote: > > On Thursday 19 November 2009 15:46, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > >> One of the requests I got during OOoCon this year was to install a > >> Wiki Mind Map on the OOoWiki. > >> > >> I've been experimenting with this off and on over the past few > >> days, and not really making a lot of progress. > >> > >> Sophie suggested this one: http://www.wikimindmap.org/ If you > >> click About it will take you to pages where you can download the > >> source and install on your local Wiki. I've done that, and had it > >> working for a while... but it only wants to create Mind Maps of > >> Wikipedia. In theory we should be able to convince it to Map any > >> Wiki, but I've not managed... all I get is a blank page. Not sure > >> where to go on this one. > > > > What does the php error log file say? > > M I should have been clearer... the page loads but where the map > is supposed to be is just blank. All controls work etc, but you zoom > in etc on nothing. So, it's not a blank page caused by a fault in > the php. The program loads the wiki page via the php CURL function lib. So again, please look into the php log and see if calling curl_init might fail :-) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wiki Mind Map on OOoWiki
On Thursday 19 November 2009 15:46, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > One of the requests I got during OOoCon this year was to install a > Wiki Mind Map on the OOoWiki. > > I've been experimenting with this off and on over the past few days, > and not really making a lot of progress. > > Sophie suggested this one: http://www.wikimindmap.org/ If you click > About it will take you to pages where you can download the source and > install on your local Wiki. I've done that, and had it working for a > while... but it only wants to create Mind Maps of Wikipedia. In > theory we should be able to convince it to Map any Wiki, but I've not > managed... all I get is a blank page. Not sure where to go on this > one. What does the php error log file say? Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] How to make localized sites
On Thursday 19 November 2009 15:38, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > > Just thought if creating a translation page from a given doc page > > could be facilitated by adding an Extension:CreatePage form that > > somehow (I haven't had a closer look yet, maybe TJ could?) creates > > the destination page with the correct pathname and directly opens > > it for editing? (But this is just a faint idea, maybe it's not > > realistic at all) > > There are a couple or Extensions I've dug up or found out via > suggestions... > > The one you're referring to is? This one maybe? > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Uniwiki_CreatePage Sorry, wrong Extension name - I meant: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CreateArticle but - as mentioned above - I did not have a closer look at it yet. Nino short of time ATM :-( - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] How to make localized sites
On Wednesday 18 November 2009 11:50, Clayton wrote: > >> There are (currently) no tools or mechanisms in place in the Wiki > >> to assist with translations. The process is basically: > >> 1. Identify a page that is to be translated > >> 2. Click Edit > >> 3. Select all text and copy > >> 4. Cancel the edit > >> 5. Start a new page with the "right" page name for the new > >> translated article > >> 6. Paste in the copied original language text > >> 7. Save to give a start point > >> 8. Translate the text on the new page > >> > >> It's a bit cumbersome, but this is generally how various language > >> groups are doing this (with some variations such as doing the > >> translations on sub-pages of their user pages etc.). > > > > Thanks Clayton. I added the process description to the Wiki Editing > > Policy. As long as we have no other solution, it's at least > > documented now somewhere. > > I've created Help:Translating, and edited the Wiki Editing Policy to > transclude the text from the Help page back into the Policy page. > > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Help:Translating Nice. Just thought if creating a translation page from a given doc page could be facilitated by adding an Extension:CreatePage form that somehow (I haven't had a closer look yet, maybe TJ could?) creates the destination page with the correct pathname and directly opens it for editing? (But this is just a faint idea, maybe it's not realistic at all) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
[documentation-dev] OT: wiki philosophy (was: Re: [documentation-dev] Help: Extensions is complete)
On Tuesday 17 November 2009 15:19, Alan wrote: > I'm wondering why people are overwriting information with their > language translations.. Something is not being > communicated clearly. You have to break an egg to make an omelet ;-) It's normal human behavior. And it's wiki. You just try it and it works. If you first had to read policies and to take care not to brake hundreds of rules, you'd never have tried. So the inviting character of the wiki facilitates direct action. And action tends to produce failings (at least to some extent). Again, just my 2¢ ;-) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Help: Extensions is complete
On Tuesday 17 November 2009 13:07, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > OK, I'm done with the first pass at creating a Help:Extensions page > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Help:Extensions > > I'll update this list and the linked Help pages when new extensions > are added/enabled. > > I'll also eventually add this to the main Wiki Help page: > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Help:Contents > which REALLY needs to be cleaned up by the way. In fact... it > currently has no usable content. Anyone want to start tackling that > page? > > Now on to the next Help page.. the Help:Translations or > Help:Localization page (I'll prob redirect one to the other... which > is the "best" title though?) For me, "Translation" is far more understandable than "Localization" as the latter is an ICT term. So there should be at least a link/redirect from Translation to Localization if you decide to use the latter. Just my 2¢ Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Clayton, what's up with the wiki?
Ok, it's responding again. Nino PS Sorry for thread hijacking :-( On Thursday 12 November 2009 18:51, Nino Novak wrote: > you need not answer - just in case you don't know that the wiki is > not responding. > > Nino > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
[documentation-dev] Clayton, what's up with the wiki?
you need not answer - just in case you don't know that the wiki is not responding. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
[documentation-dev] Sun Wiki Translation Tool
Raffaela mentioned such a tool - is it public? Could I/we use/test it? Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] doc & OOoCon
On Wednesday 11 November 2009 11:08, Clayton wrote: > This is a bit of an issue since they streamed and recorded the > sessions essentially nonstop.. so you get a 4 or even 8 hour OGG and > MPEG file. They are not small. I think, that was my problem (I'm on very slow Internet connection) > Have you managed to stream the video yet? or download it? Yep. I first downloaded it to a 100M-Backbone connected server by wget, then split the file into 80MB pieces and finally scp-transferred the pieces to my local machine :-) > > I'm putting together an overview email with my impressions and points > that stuck out to me from the doc session - hopefully it'll spark > some discussion :-) The Ideastorm page is filling up with comments > now... arguments on both sides. Fine! For the Ideastorm page: obviously I'm late with my suggestion to keep the page itself free from discussion as this blocks any "Ideastorm" (This is a well known fact among moderators and facilitators). Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] [Fwd: [webmasters] Web page dates -- Please prefer ISO 8601 standard]
On Wednesday 11 November 2009 10:54, Clayton wrote: > >> 2009-08-11 (Aug 11) ... > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Wiki_Books Clayton, 3 = March, not April ;-) SCNR Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] doc & OOoCon
On Sunday 08 November 2009 13:40, Clayton wrote: > The doc team session is at the beginning of the 6 Nov morning session. ^ Ok, after your successful deception attempt I finally found the session on Nov 5th morning, in the Sala Etrusca folder ;-) BUT ... the stream does not seem to work for me and the (huge) .ogg file does not download completely on my slow internet (3 attempts, each about 2 1/2 hours, truncated after 70-90 MByte) Now, my repeated download attempts seem to even have broken their server ;-) So I'll continue my glorious attempts tomorrow. If - by chance - somebody knows a better solution, I'm open to any advice. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] doc & OOoCon
On Friday 30 October 2009 21:01, Andreas Mantke wrote: > Hi Nino, > > Am Freitag 30 Oktober 2009 18:33:14 schrieb Nino Novak: > > Is it planned (e.g. by the doc project ;-) ) to document the > > Orvieto sessions in good quality video? > > there are some discussions about this topic on the OOoCon list. I > hope the team can manage it. Any news in this matter? For http://media.lscube.org/oooconf I was not able to install the appropriate plugin (and BTW did not find the doc team session at all???) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
[documentation-dev] doc & OOoCon
Is it planned (e.g. by the doc project ;-) ) to document the Orvieto sessions in good quality video? I tried to watch several Beijing videos but they had a very poor audio quality. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Statistics
On Monday 26 October 2009 09:52, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > On 10/15/09 11:42, Nino Novak wrote: > > Does anybody know if there is any download statistics for the > > documents located on oooauthors? Or their wiki derivates? Or any > > other derivates/mirror sites? Sold books? and so on. > > > > The stats project seems to be a little out of date. I did not find > > any doc related infos there anyway. > > > > Nino > > sorry for asking questions again and again ;-) > > I can't speak for the OooAuthors site/downloads etc. We can get some > stats on the Doc Wiki... I don't know how specific I can get with the > reports other than page-views. I can poke around in the reports and > see what's there if it will provide some useful information. The idea is to have some numbers at hand which could give a first impression about the behavior of our target group. > What do you want for info? What are you looking for? I'm looking for any piece of info. I know numbers are difficult to interprete but I'm curious if there are data which might be of some use. The big questions behind are, how could we learn more about our target group? For whom are we producing all the books, guides and translations? What do people prefer? How could we improve our services? What do they search for? and so on. Might be of motivational aid for authors, translators etc. to know that several thousands of books have been sold ;-) To be honest, the idea came up when I tried to find out how often the Doc Wiki pages have been requested so far (using Special:PopularPages). I was surprised that a page I had started translating in 2006 just for fun (DE/Makro Basic Tutorial) has got the most requests of all DE/ pages. And the translation had been nearly finished in the meanwhile by others. So a bunch of people must have searched for it and have found it and have been inspired to add value. Ok, there was another question: the Germanophone community had the idea it might be preferable to focus documentation team efforts on keeping a very small number of documents very much up to date instead of trying to maintain all the guides. So download numbers might give some hints which documents are needed most. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
[documentation-dev] Statistics
Does anybody know if there is any download statistics for the documents located on oooauthors? Or their wiki derivates? Or any other derivates/mirror sites? Sold books? and so on. The stats project seems to be a little out of date. I did not find any doc related infos there anyway. Nino sorry for asking questions again and again ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wikidoc: Licensing
On Wednesday 14 October 2009 16:45, Clayton wrote: > Nino Novak wrote: > > Finally, I'm trying to finish work but still need a little help. > > Could you please be so kind and add a bot flag to user NninoBot. > > Done. Great. > If you need anything else, just let me know. Up to now, everything seems to go really smoothly. Just waiting for the bot updating another 60 pages :-) As I have subscribed to all changes for the DE subpage tree, I even get notified by mail every time. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wikidoc: Licensing
Finally, I'm trying to finish work but still need a little help. Could you please be so kind and add a bot flag to user NninoBot. Thanks. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wikidoc: Licensing
On Thursday 01 October 2009 11:03, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > As I said, it's not so easy. > > Attempts have been made in the past to clarify things across the Wiki > and bring all content under a known set of licenses. This has not > worked for many reasons. > > Within the Documentation Project Wiki pages - the place *we* can > influence and control, we can and do declare what license the content > is released under (if we've missed a page here and there, then we > need to fix it). This is the bit we as a group/project own, and are > responsible for. This is the bit we need to focus on. This is the > bit we need to clarify (eg Nino's questions about the license for the > User Guides). Sorry for being misunderstood, but with "starting over" I did not mean to clarify the whole wiki at once. What I meant is exactly what you said here: to start to do things right with the part we own, i.e. the User Guides (and maybe extend it to the rest of the documentation section). The only thing to do so far seems to put the right license Template on every page. I'll try to do this in the next days. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wikidoc: Licensing
On Wednesday 30 September 2009 12:51, Clayton wrote: > Licensing is a tough topic. In a perfect world all OOo Docs would be > under a single license. Reality is though... they're not. > > The Wiki itself is also a minefield of mixed licensing. This is, > unfortunately, a product of how the Wiki evolved from a developer > only playground into a tool that all OOo projects are using... in > that evolution, copyright and licensing were not made clear from the > start. Some attempts have been made to clarify that... but most > attempts have failed (eg you can't make a blanket copyright statement > for the Wiki that affects and changes the license for existing > content). Then I'd suggest to start over ASAP. Putting things right IMHO is an important prerequisite for productive work. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
[documentation-dev] Wikidoc: Licensing
In the Germanophone Community the concern has been raised that contributions to the localized User Guide Wiki pages can not be ported back to the OOoauthors ODT documents as the ODTs are multiple licensed (CC-BY as well as GPL and PDL) and the wiki pages - so far - are explicitly only under CC-BY. When saving a page, OpenOffice.org_Wiki:Copyrights ( http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Wiki:Copyrights ) is mentioned, where contributors are asked to sign http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Authors_licensing_declaration if they are allowing their contributions to be used in other places under the licenses mentioned there. In my understanding, the back porting of contributions is essential and should go smoothly per default without signing addtional statements. Opinions? How to achieve this? Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wiki: footnotes & references
On Thursday 24 September 2009 21:06, Clayton wrote: > Nino Novak wrote: > > How do you insert references? > > > > In WP, footnotes are created automatically with > > "content" using Extension:Cite (see > > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Cite) > > > > Dear Clayton, may I suggest that we install this extension, too? > > :-) > > > > (or what do others believe?) > > I have looked at that extension, but never installed it... no reason > for not installing other than I simply hadn't done it. I was going > to ask here if it would be helpful, but hadn't placed it high on my > list since there was no one asking for it.. up to now :-) > > So, it's installed now. I'll document it in the usual place at > Wiki_maintenance/Extensions. cool - I was just editing a page and all of a sudden the nasty raw source code "
[documentation-dev] wiki: footnotes & references
How do you insert references? In WP, footnotes are created automatically with "content" using Extension:Cite (see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Cite) Dear Clayton, may I suggest that we install this extension, too? :-) (or what do others believe?) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] annoying captchas
On Monday 21 September 2009 13:42, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > > However, the solution with captchas on external urls is not a good > > soution - if a (human) spammer bypasses it, you still have to > > manually check it. Whitelisting/Blacklisting could help automating > > this job (as in MoinMoin). > > Captchas on external URLs is just the default for the reCaptcha > extension. This setting was not explicitly turned on as part of the > anti-SPAM stuff. If this change (turning off the Captcha on external > URLs) works, I'll document it and roll it into the main > LocalSettings.php file - it's a temp change for now until it's > tested. > > Whitelisting/Blacklisting works if you know which URLs to Whitelist > or Blacklist. So I'd propose to whitelist all known project sites (as *.openoffice.org, oooauthors.org ...) > It's a big manual job either way. Shouldn't be. How many external links are inserted per day/week? All one has to do is to decide whether it's a good or a bad link and to copy it to white resp. black list. Any Admin should be able to accomplish this. We just need to put the appropriate instructions at a visible place. > I've implemented a > regex for blocking certain SPAM word combinations, but this is only > part of the overall solution to keeping the Wiki clean. > > Right now, with the reCaptcha on new user registrations, plus > BadBehavior, and the regex, we seem to be winning the Spam battle : Ok, if it works without problems in its current implementation, then forget all suggestions :-) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] annoying captchas
On Sunday 20 September 2009 12:24, Clayton wrote:
> >> Where exactly are you seeing the Captchas show up?
> >
> > On every new page creation - transclusion of {{CCBY}} seems to
> > trigger them as it points to creativecommons.org. And I put it on
> > every new page...
>
> H... OK, I've changed an option so it should not check on
> addurl... see if that makes a difference.
ok, thanks - I'm going to test it ASAP.
However, the solution with captchas on external urls is not a good
soution - if a (human) spammer bypasses it, you still have to manually
check it. Whitelisting/Blacklisting could help automating this job (as
in MoinMoin).
Nino
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Re: [documentation-dev] annoying captchas
On Saturday 19 September 2009 18:29, Clayton wrote:
> Nino Novak wrote:
> > Clayton, I'd propose to turn off captchas on edits.
> >
> > In my eyes, captchas on edits are contraproductive: They hamper
> > "real" contributions whereas they don't prevent (human) spammers
> > from putting links to external URL. They only prevent bots from
> > putting links, but bots shouldn't have passed the account creation
> > barrier anyway.
> >
> > So please switch it off.
> >
> > Or is there a whitelist where one could put "good" URLs (like the
> > CC-BY or *.openoffice.org)?
> >
> > The captcha/mailconfirm at account creation should be absolutely
> > sufficient.
>
> Captchas on edits? There should only be a Captcha on new user
> registration. It is possible to enable Captchas on edits, but it are
> not be enabled (I just double checked).
>
> The settings for the reCaptcha extension are set so it is triggered
> on: - new user registration
> - anonymous edits (but we don't allow anonymous edits, so this never
> triggers)
> - guessing a password incorrectly too many times in a row
> - register users are never presented with a Captcha
> - adding a URL to an external website
>
> Where exactly are you seeing the Captchas show up?
On every new page creation - transclusion of {{CCBY}} seems to trigger
them as it points to creativecommons.org. And I put it on every new
page...
Nino
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[documentation-dev] annoying captchas
Clayton, I'd propose to turn off captchas on edits. In my eyes, captchas on edits are contraproductive: They hamper "real" contributions whereas they don't prevent (human) spammers from putting links to external URL. They only prevent bots from putting links, but bots shouldn't have passed the account creation barrier anyway. So please switch it off. Or is there a whitelist where one could put "good" URLs (like the CC-BY or *.openoffice.org)? The captcha/mailconfirm at account creation should be absolutely sufficient. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wiki: Watchlist + E-Mail-Notification
On Wednesday 16 September 2009 21:11, T. J. Frazier wrote: > Nino Novak wrote: > > In mw:Extension:CategoryWatch the Extension:Workflow is listed > > which might be fine for publication workflow of documents (but > > seems to work only with MW 1.18+). > > > > Nino > > Did you mis-read something, about the version required? Wp is only > running 1.16Alpha. We're current with stable versions, thanks to > Clayton's hard work, running 1.15. Ooops - I don't find the statement any more (it was not in the top box but at a different place), sorry. > The Workflow extension is definitely experimental, but it looks like > any bugs would only affect its users, not the rest of us. Worth > considering. Pure egoism: for me as user, a defined document state gives much more confidence about the validity of the content. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wiki: Watchlist + E-Mail-Notification
On Wednesday 16 September 2009 17:50, Nino Novak wrote: > Did you try something like > > $wgWatchSubpages['user'] = true; or $wgGroupPermissions['user' ]['watchsubpages'] = true; N. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wiki: Watchlist + E-Mail-Notification
On Tuesday 15 September 2009 12:39, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > On 09/13/09 17:58, Nino Novak wrote: > > Looks like MediaWiki still does not have a particularly usful watch > > functionality. > > > > In MoinMoin (another wiki engine), for example, you can set up a > > regex for watched pages. For example, I'd like to watch all pages > > under the DE/ hierarchy, particularly pages created under that > > hierarchy. And all their Discussion pages. > > > > How do you manage this problem? > > We could look at an extension to help with this... maybe this one? > > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WatchSubpages > > Another extension that might be helpful? > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CategoryWatch > > > Take a look at them... if they are what you need, then I can install > them. They are not exactly what I need (as for new created pages you still need to add them manually) but... In mw:Extension:CategoryWatch the Extension:Workflow is listed which might be fine for publication workflow of documents (but seems to work only with MW 1.18+). Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Wiki: Watchlist + E-Mail-Notification
On Wednesday 16 September 2009 17:25, T. J. Frazier wrote: > Clayton wrote: > >> We could look at an extension to help with this... maybe this one? > >> > >> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WatchSubpages > >> > >> Another extension that might be helpful? > >> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CategoryWatch > >> > >> > >> Take a look at them... if they are what you need, then I can > >> install them. > > > > I've added these two extensions... not sure if they work/help > > though. The Category one seems to be working as expected, but the > > WatchSubpage one... I don't see any evidence of it. I have a > > feeling that it's not working in MediaWiki 1.15.1. Can anyone else > > find a way to trigger the Watch Subpages extension? > > > > If it's not just me :-) I'll try posting a question on the > > Extension Talk page. > > > > C. > > This may (or may not :-) ) be a clue: when I type > Special:Watchsubpages into the search box, I get "Permission error". > If I mis-spell it, I only get "Invalid whatever". Did you try something like $wgWatchSubpages['user'] = true; in LocalSettings.php ? Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wikidoc: Tip/Note/Caution Templates break list order
On Tuesday 15 September 2009 11:52, Nino Novak wrote: > On Tuesday 15 September 2009 10:11, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > > Before we roll this up into the main template, I'd like to see one > > test done... see what happens when you export a page (that uses > > this HTML table) to ODT and PDF. If this works smoothly/correctly, > > then we should use this HTML version of the template. > > I've created a test page (User:Nnino/Testpage) > > Results: > - Works in normal printable Version (...&printable=yes) > - In PDF, the table is centered (why?) but looks ok > - In ODT, the table columns seem to be evenly (50/50) distributed and > bgcolor is not evaluated. AND the List sequence is broken (in ODT) :-( (just noticed) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wikidoc: Tip/Note/Caution Templates break list order
On Tuesday 15 September 2009 10:11, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > Before we roll this up into the main template, I'd like to see one > test done... see what happens when you export a page (that uses this > HTML table) to ODT and PDF. If this works smoothly/correctly, then > we should use this HTML version of the template. I've created a test page (User:Nnino/Testpage) Results: - Works in normal printable Version (...&printable=yes) - In PDF, the table is centered (why?) but looks ok - In ODT, the table columns seem to be evenly (50/50) distributed and bgcolor is not evaluated. So with the present code it does not work (but indicates that table rendering might be broken in the wikibook ODT-generator) while PDF gives a sufficient result. Putting table width and td bgcolor into css does not change anything (just tested) So as long as rendering is broken (is it?), the divs work better for odt creation. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wikidoc: Tip/Note/Caution Templates break list order
On Tuesday 15 September 2009 11:08, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > > Yes seen this in many examples but thought there might be a > > solution without html (which goes better with the idea of a wiki). > > The problem is that if you insert a space or another Wiki element > between the Wiki markup for numbered lists (ie #) the Wiki rendering > engine assumes you want to restart the list. Inserting the Note > Template in there forces a restart. > > This means you have one of two choices... you either use HTML for > your numbered lists (what we've been doing) or you change the > template to use HTML in the way you've proposed. > > Both solutions appear to work, but with the current situation, we > have to give a warning to people trying to use the Note in the > lists... whereas with the proposed changes, we shouldn't need any > warnings. That's what I tried to say, thank you Clayton. > If this change works, we should include it on at least: > Documentation/Note > Documentation/Warning it's /Caution ;-) > Documentation/Tip Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wikidoc: Tip/Note/Caution Templates break list order
On Tuesday 15 September 2009 09:58, Martina Waller wrote: > Hi Nino, > > please have a look at > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Dashboard/Styles > > Il you look at "Interrupted numbered lists" you will find an example > showing a warning within a numbered list. Yes seen this in many examples but thought there might be a solution without html (which goes better with the idea of a wiki). Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wikidoc: Tip/Note/Caution Templates break list order
On Monday 14 September 2009 23:45, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:
> Nino Novak wrote:
> > On Monday 14 September 2009 22:34, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:
> >> Nino,
> >> The Note code in other chapters seems to work fine with lists, so
> >> my suggestion above about a bug seems to be wrong.
> >
> > Can you show me a list where it works?
> > I've looked through several (about 20-30) pages but none had a wiki
> > markup list (with #... at the beginning) all had "real" html lists
> > (...)
> >
> > I tried to make the templates work on "normal" wiki markup lists
> > but did not succeed.
>
> Here is one:
>
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guid
>es/Writer_Guide/Tables_for_page_layout
But...
2 "but"s:
- the tip/ notes are not inside the list on this page (but before or
therafter).
- the lists are made in ordinary html syntax with , not with wiki
markup
What I meant is that if you put a template inside a numbered wiki type
list (between two consecutive items), it breaks the sequence of
numbering. At least in my (endless) trials:
#
#
{{Documentation/Note|Note on step 2...}
#
is shown as
1.
2.
NOTE on step 2...
1.
instead of
1.
2.
NOTE on step 2...
3.
Nino
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Re: [documentation-dev] wikidoc: Tip/Note/Caution Templates break list order
On Monday 14 September 2009 22:34, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > Nino, > The Note code in other chapters seems to work fine with lists, so my > suggestion above about a bug seems to be wrong. Can you show me a list where it works? I've looked through several (about 20-30) pages but none had a wiki markup list (with #... at the beginning) all had "real" html lists (...) I tried to make the templates work on "normal" wiki markup lists but did not succeed. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
[documentation-dev] wikidoc: Tip/Note/Caution Templates break list order
As I didn't succeed in putting one of the Documentation/... templates into a numbered list without breaking list order, I created a simplified version: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Template:TEST/Doc/Note which seems to work pretty well. Could please somebody having more skills in HTML/CSS look at it? Thank you. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wikidoc: breadcrumb localization problem
On Thursday 10 September 2009 12:50, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > > It makes sense to standardize everything to a master template that > > everyone works to improve. All changes flow out from the master > > template. All translations flow out from the master template. > > From that point if someone really really wants to create an > > alternative, they can easily spin off something of their own > > composition. > > Agreed, but.. that only works if the master templates and ideas are > the best they can be. The questions Nino is asking are what we need > to weed out the less than optimal processes we're currently using. > :-) Nino has raised a good point regarding the localizations and > breadcrumbs... which hardly could be stumbled upon except "by doing" ;-) Therefore, a Big Thankyou to all the contributors of the big work done so far which I just could use :-) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wikidoc: breadcrumb localization problem
On Wednesday 09 September 2009 23:47, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > Yes, as far as I know, the German and English docs are maintained > completely independently. Nino should be able to confirm this. I cannot answer this as I've not been very close to the translation process. My "jump in" was just the motivation to wikify the German docs, mainly the user guides - as I'm mainly an OOo user myself. This gives me the link to reply to Clayton's arguments concerning the localized vs. non-localized document path names: The idea of having one big "international document framework" with all the translations in sync might be challenging, but my personal priority at the moment is trying to make the web UGs as attractive as possible for end users. So, if not accepted by the users, the wiki should at least act as prototype for how a good web documentation should look like. I hope, you'll understand my argumentation: it just favors the usability/attractivity aspect over technical/maintenance aspects. ;-) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
[documentation-dev] Wiki: Watchlist + E-Mail-Notification
Looks like MediaWiki still does not have a particularly usful watch functionality. In MoinMoin (another wiki engine), for example, you can set up a regex for watched pages. For example, I'd like to watch all pages under the DE/ hierarchy, particularly pages created under that hierarchy. And all their Discussion pages. How do you manage this problem? Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wikidoc: breadcrumb localization problem
On Friday 11 September 2009 13:17, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > Nino Novak wrote: > > Clayton wrote: > >> As for the different structure... is this because you've found a > >> better way to present the information? > > > > E.g. Chapter 6 (Data pilot) of the Calc Guide has been written in > > German from scratch, it's not a translation at all. > > > :-) The English version of that chapter was translated from the > : German > > chapter that Nino mentions. That's because the German chapter was > much more detailed and complete than the original English chapter. > > I probably made some other (minor) changes to the English version of > that chapter, so it may no longer be a direct translation. Ok, so I might have looked at the wrong document. Where can I find this translated version? Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wikidoc: breadcrumb localization problem
Sorry, ATM I've not enough time to answer appropriately, just one small detail: On Wednesday 09 September 2009 15:42, Clayton wrote: > As for the different structure... is this because you've found a > better way to present the information? E.g. Chapter 6 (Data pilot) of the Calc Guide has been written in German from scratch, it's not a translation at all. > Is this a problem/solution > that could also be used in the English side, making both document > sets better? I don't know at the moment. Maybe just two different approaches. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wikidoc: breadcrumb localization problem
On Wednesday 09 September 2009 15:42, Clayton wrote: > Nino Novak wrote: > > Additional insights: Comparing the English (original) WG2 to the > > German "translation" I noticed that the German WG has different > > chapter titles and structure in several places, so for me it seams > > quite reasonable not to stick to the proposed document path > > structure which just appends a DE/ at the beginning (Doc/WG2/... -> > > DE/Doc/WG2...) but to use different path names according to the > > German document stucture. > > > > What was the rationale behind the "strictly" matching path > > structures? > > There are several reasons. Could you tell me which other reasons there are? > For example, we are using InterWiki > linking to link from one document translation to another. Sorry but, for the User Guides, this is a minor requirement, nice to have but absolutely unnecessary for 99% of the end users - which often are software newbies and just want to learn the basics. They don't need to switch to Chinese by one click ;) For the moment, I think we can totally ignore this requirement without remarkable quality loss. Are there any *important* obstacles? ;-) [...] > As for the different structure... is this because you've found a > better way to present the information? Is this a problem/solution > that could also be used in the English side, making both document > sets better? The Chinese translation was able to maintain the same > document structure... so I'm curious what ended up in different > places in the German translation. For this I'd have to dive in deeper, which I possibly will do later (my plan is to help migrating the German UGs to OOo 3). Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wikidoc: breadcrumb localization problem
Additional insights: Comparing the English (original) WG2 to the German
"translation" I noticed that the German WG has different chapter titles
and structure in several places, so for me it seams quite reasonable
not to stick to the proposed document path structure which just appends
a DE/ at the beginning (Doc/WG2/... -> DE/Doc/WG2...) but to use
different path names according to the German document stucture.
What was the rationale behind the "strictly" matching path structures?
Nino
On Wednesday 02 September 2009 13:56, T. J. Frazier wrote:
> Clayton wrote:
> > Nino Novak wrote:
> >> Good evening to all,
> >>
> >> just had a first problem: the breadcrumb shown at the top of a
> >> subpage displays the original page title, not the DISPLAYTITLE
> >> variable content. Any ideas how to get it localized?
> >>
> >> Would it be an desirable solution to use redirects?
> >> Example:
> >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Nnino/Drafts/DE/Docu
> >>mentation/OOoAuthors_User_Manual/Writer_Guide is a redirect. Its
> >> subpage /Copyright is also a redirect to the localized Version.
> >
> > H that's likely another side effect of not using Namespaces for
> > the different languages in the Wiki. The breadcrumb uses the
> > actual page title, not the DISPLAYTITLE which is just a re-write of
> > the actual page title.
> >
> > I don't have any suggestions. Using redirects may work, but it
> > could get messy long term. Maybe TJ has a brainwave here :-) It
> > would be nice to find a workable solution to this since it affects
> > all translated pages. Maybe we need to come at it from another
> > angle?
> >
> > C.
>
> Sorry, sounds like a PHP problem. My totally ignorant guess is that
> the breadcrumb code uses something (at the PHP level) like
> {{PAGENAME}} (at the wiki-code level). Maybe (or maybe not) it could
> use {{DISPLAYTITLE}} equivalent, if that could return {{PAGENAME}} by
> default.
>
> Redirects sound like a bad idea to me. Some industrious soul is
> liable to come along and clean them up. (My 2¢.)
-
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Re: [documentation-dev] Page rating extension on the Wiki
On Monday 07 September 2009 10:08, ccornell - OpenOffice.org wrote: > A while back, the UX project requested that we install an extension > that would allow users to rate or rank a page. Nice! We should look for some nice seagull icons replacing the stars :-) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Re: DocBook?
On Friday 04 September 2009 15:55, Clayton wrote: > > One of the big reasons we moved/pushed towards using the Wiki for > docs is.. to try and get more community involvement... basically > lowering the entry barrier to editing the docs. In at least some > documents, this has worked quite well. The Wiki is easy to access, > and anyone with a browser can participate. We're just getting those > people interested and some are starting to get involved. > If we choose to use some other application that must be installed > separately or some special OOo configuration requiring plugins and > user IDs on certain webservers etc., we will immediately eliminate a > segment of contributors, and the doc workload falls back 100% to a > very very small team of maybe 3 or 4 people. ok, I've understood that it has not been a technical reason to give the wiki a try but community involvement. It's good to keep this in mind. > The example I have is the DevGuide. Before porting it to the Wiki, > it was developed in a custom process that required a specific > StarOffice version with a special plugin for reading the custom XML > sourcefile type. Only someone who had access to this version of > StarOffice and could get the plugin could open the source files and > edit. This meant basically... 2 people were working on the source > and creating the doc. All of the developers had to push their doc > changes through these two people. The community had no hope of > contributing things like code snippets and making corrections except > through raising Issues in the OOoIssue tracker. With this doc in the > Wiki, it is subject to a steady stream of edits by developers and > community members who keep the doc much more current, and who are > adding example code and other helpful bits. But with the User Guides - did you experience a higher contribution activity up to now? As far as I've seen the English Guides have been in the wiki for quite a year now? > One of the issues with working direct in DocBook is that it does > require a significant level of expertise, and we're raising that > entry bar way up again. > Personally I like DocBook, and have written a lot of documentation in > raw XML and DocBook... but it's not easy... requires at least some > custom tooling in the process etc, and at least some measure of > technical skill above your average computer user level - even if > you're using a DocBook editor of some sort. Sorry, I've never been using it so I did not know the skill level needed. > If we argue that we can use Writer as a DocBook editor (it is > technically possible to export DocBook from Writer), then why bother > with DocBook? Do the docs right in ODT. But in docbook the filters already exist for several output formats. And they are maintained by others. With ODT, hasn't all this to be generated again? (just a question) > No matter which way we go (Wiki, DocBook, or something else), we will > have issues. If we use a CMS of some sort and Writer (TeamDrive and > Alfresco, to name two, have OOo plugins so you can access the files > direct from OOo), we loose a lot of the simple accessibility that we > have in the Wiki. If we use the Wiki, we have difficulty exporting > to other formats. > > The Wiki is definitely not a perfect medium for documenting, but... > it does the job reasonably OK in most cases. For me at the moment, the above argument (community involvment) seems the most important. > In a perfect world, I'd like to be able to use OOoWriter to author > and edit the docs, save them to webserver (just via save), and be > able to automatically/immediately have them rendered into Webpages > (as in the way the Wiki works). There is not yet a OOo based Wiki > :-) It'd be the best of both worlds. Ok, but this seems (far) in the future (for me at least). Another present concern is that the wiki in it's actual structure is not very attractive to end users. It is not very usable. Main issues are IMHO: it serves for several purposes spread too wide apart (development and community and end user documentation), search cannot be restricted to one language (or e.g. one version or one purpose), and some of the pages are of questionable quality or even "trial pages". Good end user documentation has to be very clearcut and clean, it is measured by its usability. And only a good, promising set-up attracts people. So the goal "community involvement" seems to be foiled to a certain extent by the suboptimal realization. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] Re: DocBook? (was:wikidoc: header hierarchy)
On Friday 04 September 2009 13:46, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > Nino Novak wrote: > > A propos inconsistencies: Has there been a thought/discussion to > > use DocBook as master for documentation? > > I know that OOo is supposed to deal with DocBook files in some way, > but I've never understood how that works. Would love to learn more. > > Can Writer create/edit DocBook files, as a front-end that ordinary > mortals can understand? I think that when documenting an office suite > with a word processor component, that one should use that word > processor component, not some other program. I'm not an expert - to be honest I hoped to meet the experts here ;-) but on the German community mailing list we had a discussion if it makes sense to use the wiki for documentation at all - as this raises the problem of double bookkeeping and of converting documents. A possible solution would be to use a common Master. So my question should have been: does it make sense to consider a general setting with DocBook as master for all documents? I don't know if there are good docbook->odt or docbook->wiki filters but from theory this seems more straightforward than odt->wiki and vice versa. BTW - I don't see any problems in using specialized tools for special goals, think of the issue tracker, pootle, Plone etc. The word processor serves for creating nice documents, the question addressed here is more to generate different output formats from the same content source. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wikidoc: header hierarchy
On Wednesday 02 September 2009 14:42, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > Nino Novak wrote: > > On Wednesday 02 September 2009 12:39, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > >> , but sometimes > >> when a section started by a H1 is very short, I keep 2 or 3 of > >> them on one wiki page. Then I have to decide whether to change the > >> other H1s into H2s. > > > > (As for me, I'd prefer to put them on different pages if their > > content is significantly different) > > > > Wikipedia has a "stub" article avoidance policy. In case of > > (technical) documentation like the UG I don't see any reason for a > > minimum article length. (just my 2¢) > > A lot of what I've done when wiki-fying the English UGs hasn't been > well thought out, just done in a rush, hence the inconsistencies. I > try to tidy things up when I need to update the content of a wiki > page. This discussion is good for that. A propos inconsistencies: Has there been a thought/discussion to use DocBook as master for documentation? Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wiki: uploading several files at once
On Wednesday 02 September 2009 18:01, Clayton wrote: > > My opinion: > > Link to Special:Multidownload should be only visible on the normal > > download page, not in the Sidebar. > > Having it in Special:SpacialPages should suffice. Adding it anywhere > else required editing PHP, or adjusting other files that may or may > not be possible in the next engine upgrade. ok, no problem > > "Normal users" should be able to use it without Sysop rights. > > As far as I can tell, normal users can use it. works like a charm :-) Thanks for installing. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wiki: uploading several files at once
On Wednesday 02 September 2009 14:52, Clayton wrote: > > It's linked on Special page "Special Pages", but restricted to > > sysops. You might just change the permission requirement. > > Ah, I missed that :-) > > Hmmm I can see why it's restricted to Sysops. It's a potential for > abuse by the few remaining rogue spammers we have. > > All of the various MultiUpload extensions I've looked at in the past > have restricted this functionality to only those users with Sysop > (aka Admin) permissions. > > initially, I don't see a way to set the permissions of this > extension... might be a $wgSomething variable that can be set? Not > sure yet. My opinion: Link to Special:Multidownload should be only visible on the normal download page, not in the Sidebar. "Normal users" should be able to use it without Sysop rights. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wikidoc: header hierarchy
On Wednesday 02 September 2009 12:39, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > Nino Novak wrote: > > AFAIK h1-level headers are obsolete for wiki articles (at least in > > wikipedia). > > > > In the (english) documentation (WG2) h1 is used nevertheless, at > > least in some articles I read so far. The MediaWiki export filter > > output also uses h1 as top level. > > > > Bug or intention? > > The English user guides with H1 in some articles were done long > before I learned anything about how to do wiki articles properly. > Some of them were done using a set of macros that came before the > mediawiki export filter that is now in OOo. > > Mostly I try to put anything starting with H1 on a new wiki page (so > it becomes the page title, not a heading on the page) that's how I'd suggest to proceed (and how I've been doing it too) > , but sometimes > when a section started by a H1 is very short, I keep 2 or 3 of them > on one wiki page. Then I have to decide whether to change the other > H1s into H2s. (As for me, I'd prefer to put them on different pages if their content is significantly different) Wikipedia has a "stub" article avoidance policy. In case of (technical) documentation like the UG I don't see any reason for a minimum article length. (just my 2¢) Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wikidoc: header hierarchy
On Wednesday 02 September 2009 12:13, Martina Waller wrote: > Clayton schrieb: > > Nino Novak wrote: > > > [...] > > H1 is still valid MediaWiki syntax, so it can still be used even if > > major MediaWiki installs are trying to phase it out. > > > > Generally speaking, the specific Wiki docs I work on do not have > > H1... all start at H2. > > > > C. > > I remember that this question came up in another mail group but I > cannot find the thread anymore. I know there are docs starting with > H1 but they shouldn't. If you look at the styles page with wiki style > examples at > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Dashboard/Styl >es you see that the first heading level mentioned is = = heading = = > with correponds to H2. AFAIR the rationale was/is header hierarchy: page title = h1 page content = h2..h6 if h1 header is used for content, you loose this hierarchy. In page transclusion or wikibook generation, this should confuse the toc of the transcluding page (never tested it). For me, it seems quite natural to keep the hierarchy this way - but it's not intuitive to have to know it when editing wiki pages. Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
Re: [documentation-dev] wiki: uploading several files at once
On Monday 31 August 2009 15:20, Nino Novak wrote: > Is there a possibility to upload a bunch of files at once? Meanwhile I found http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MultiUpload Any chance to give it a try? Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
[documentation-dev] wiki: uploading several files at once
Is there a possibility to upload a bunch of files at once? Nino - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@documentation.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@documentation.openoffice.org
