[marketing-dev] Re: OPENOFFICE FOR TABLETS

[eric b]

Hi,


Le 6 août 11 à 05:47, Andy Brown a écrit :


Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:


If so, and I believe mine eyes, then bango wango!



LibreOffice has a team



A Team ?  How many people ?   /me curious :-)



working on a port to Android so it may just happen.




IMHO, nothing in LO is currently adapted to such machines and  
operating system, but if you pretend this, you should have serious  
proofs ?


I'm curious to see what could happen so fast, really. I had in mind a  
lot of changes in the code, and even more.



Last but not least, EducOOo is working on ARM port too.  Not Android,  
but only Linux ( Debian, Ubuntu, Archlinux .. ).


And if some "mecene" is interested to help us, we (EducOOo) work with  
schools and students, and reverse the code to OpenOffice.org (unlike  
LibreOffice).




Regards,
Eric Bachard

--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news





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[marketing-dev] Re: OpenOffice.org to become an Apache Foundation Incubator Project

[eric b]

Hi,

Le 1 juin 11 à 22:55, Ariel Constenla-Haile a écrit :


it does not surprise me how fast you were to set up your wiki page
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/JZA


Feel free to contribute and to create yor page too !



I keep my sayings
http://openoffice.org/projects/marketing/lists/dev/archive/2010-12/ 
message/22
"IMO you are under-qualified to represent OpenOffice.org at any  
sort of

conference or talk;



Well, I tend to disagree : as Co-Lead, Alexandro represented the  
OpenOffice.org Education Project several times, e.g. at the OOoCon.

It was a great job, and nobody complained. Including you  :-)

Now, may I invite you to calm down ?


Thanks,
Eric Bachard



--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news





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[marketing-dev] Education Project at Libre Software meeting (Strasbourg 2011)

[eric b]

Hi,

For the record, the OpenOffice.org Education Project will be  
represented à LibreSoftware Meeting Strasbourg 2011 :
http://2011.rmll.info/Developpement-du-module-d-annotation-dans- 
Office-Impress-Development-of-the-annotation-module-in


Thanks to the students frome Ecole Centrale Nantes.

... and see you !

Eric Bachard

--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news





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[marketing-dev] OOo4kids 1.2 is out

[eric b]

Hello the list,


EducOOo is proud to announce OOo4kids 1.2 , for Windows, Mac OS X,  
and Linux is out.


17 locales are available, and for Linux .rpm archives are available.  
For Debian or Ubuntu, please read the information on the link below.


Further information: http://eric.bachard.org/news

Exact link : http://eric.bachard.org/news/index.php?post/2011/04/04/ 
OOo4Kids-1.2-is-out




Thanks !
Eric Bachard



P.S. : looks like the previous mail never arrived. Apologies if ever  
you recevied it twice


--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news





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[marketing-dev] OOo4Kids 1.2 is out

[eric b]

Hello the list,


EducOOo is proud to announce OOo4kids 1.2 , for Windows, Mac OS X,  
and Linux is out.


17 locales are available, and for Linux .rpm archives are available.  
For Debian or Ubuntu, please read the information on the link below.


Further information: http://eric.bachard.org/news

Exact link : http://eric.bachard.org/news/index.php?post/2011/04/04/ 
OOo4Kids-1.2-is-out




Thanks !
Eric Bachard

--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news





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[marketing] Re: [dev] EducOOo donated code for ARM Linux port

[eric b]

Le 19 févr. 11 à 13:51, Rene Engelhard a écrit :


On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 08:41:43AM +0100, eric b wrote:

Hi,




Hi René,



For your information :
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=117017


"EducOOo donated code for ARM Linux port" makes it sound you did  
the port.

Wrong.



What is wrong ?

Yes, a code for the ARM port has been donated, and I added, by  
EducOOo, because I mostly work for EducOOo.



But the important fact, is I'm proud to donate code to  
OpenOffice.org : since years, Sun engineers, never refused to help  
me, and I honestly think what I propose will help.
And I never wrote I did the port. But writing the assembler part does  
really concern porting.



Anyway, the current port is sub-optimal, and I wonder why you react  
so violently ?




Stop your propaganda, please.



Wow ..  :-)


This is not propaganda : I spent 3 weeks to discover the BeagleBoard,  
and several day to learn how things work, the most critical part  
being the current interlock part, I wrote in asembler.
Since I do not want to spend my time with useless discussion, I'll  
copy-paste the IRC discussion we had, to inform people, and show I'm  
not what you described.



To avoid spamming the list with the discussion, please read (in the  
case you are interested :


http://eric.bachard.free.fr/patches/OOo4Kids/linux_arm/ 
log_irc_saturday19feb2011_EducOOo_donated_code.txt




Intreresting you even dropped the correct list from your CCs  
(dev@porting). What does

marketing to do here instead?




Because I'd like to inform people the ARM port is extremely  
important.  Like I did when I explained Mac OS X port was a 15  
millions of potential users port, some years ago.


And I was right.


Regards,
Eric

--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news

Re: [marketing] Re: [dev] EducOOo donated code for ARM Linux port

[eric b]

Hi,


Le 19 févr. 11 à 14:02, Tor Lillqvist a écrit :

"EducOOo donated code for ARM Linux port" makes it sound you did  
the port.


Me, I didn't understand if EducOOo is the subject or object here...  
(And with issuezilla being down, I couldn't check the link either.)  
Was it donated to EducOOo, or did EducOOo donate it to somebody else?



I do represent EducOOo non profit association, who aims to contribute  
back to OpenOffice.org. And we'll continue until there is a good  
reason to stop.
A copy of the full patch I donated is available at :  http:// 
eric.bachard.free.fr/patches/OOo4Kids/linux_arm/arm_DEV300_m93.diff



Inside this patch, there is something important (and helpfull),  
written in ARM assembler. As discussed with Rene on IRC, define the  
arm target is matter of taste, and I don't care if this code is not  
fully used / ported into OpenOffice.org or elsewhere, the most  
important being the interlck.c part, and the fact people explain do  
not forget to mention I'm the author of the interesting part.



And what does "donate" mean, exactly, in the context of Open Source  
software? Or is this not Open Source?





Oracle - Sun developpers cannot directly reuse even one line of code  
from EducOOo repository (OOo4Kids and OOoLight), "as it". Mainly  
because out of the famous "Oracle Copyright Assignment".
To solve this legal issue, I wrote on IssueZilla, that the code is  
donated to OpenOffice.org, under a compatible license (LGPL v3 for  
instance).  Last, I attached a patch I wrote onto OpenOffice.org IZ.


When I got a complicated questions, Sun-Oracle engineers always  
answer, and help me.  And I appreciate that.

In one word:  yes, this is open source, and free software.


Regards,
Eric Bachard

--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news

[marketing] EducOOo donated code for ARM Linux port

[eric b]

Hi,

For your information : http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi? 
id=117017


Linux ARM is extremely promising for the future, and imho it worth to  
improve it asap.



Thanks,
Eric Bachard

--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project: http://education.openoffice.org
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news

Re: [marketing] Software of the Year 2010

[eric b]

Hi,

Le 28 oct. 10 à 10:14, Geissmann, Miriam a écrit :



Hello,

We are pleased to inform you that the following product has been  
nominated for the Softwareload "Software of the Year 2010" awards  
in the UK:


- OpemOffice (Category "Freeware")



Maybe you meant "OpenOffice.org" (who is the corect name)  ?   :-)


Regards,
Eric Bachard

--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news

Re: [marketing] Result: Logo for the 10th anniversary - request for approval

[eric b]

Hi Martin,

Le 4 oct. 10 à 20:37, Martin Hollmichel a écrit :
If Oracle no longer feels that it's objectives are in alignment  
with those of the community at large, and therefore no longer  
willing to sponsor the OpenOffice.org Community, then I believe it  
best to make that statement publicly, clearly and without  
obfuscation.


The representatives of that other Project got an answer to their  
letter to Oracle, I honestly don't know if they made this public or  
not but I assume so.


Interesting  :-/

And when did Oracle answer ? (if you got the information)


Thanks,
Eric

--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news

Re: [marketing] please advise how to donate money to non-Oracle OpenOffice.org

[eric b]

Hi Danishka,

Le 29 sept. 10 à 08:34, Danishka Navin a écrit :


Hi Eric,
On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 11:53 AM, eric b  wrote:

EducOOo is a non profit association, dedicated to the OpenOffice.org
Project.
Its main goal is to create a bridge, find students and have Fun,  
writting
code and experiment with them, without bother OOo, and with the  
promise, the

code could be backported into OOo (if relevant and enough good).

As you know I am also interested on your work and joined for the  
l10n work

for OOo4Kids.



Thanks a lot for your help, much appreciated !

Please be patient : we are currently doing a bit of re-organization  
because EducOO.org is growing too fast.





since OO.org community moving to LibreOffice  you have to create a  
bridge

between LibreOffice and kids :-)



No comment, sorry.


Eric

--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news

Re: [marketing] please advise how to donate money to non-Oracle OpenOffice.org

[eric b]

Hi Danishka,

Le 29 sept. 10 à 07:24, Danishka Navin a écrit :


So feel free to donate to EducOO  ?  Our goal is Education, and  
neutrality.


EducOOo is a non profit association, volunteers, not being paid ..



Do you have any idea of regranding EduOOo as LibreOfficeEdu  ;-)



EducOOo is a non profit association, dedicated to the OpenOffice.org  
Project.


Its main goal is to create a bridge, find students and have Fun,  
writting code and experiment with them, without bother OOo, and with  
the promise, the code could be backported into OOo (if relevant and  
enough good).



Regards,
Eric
--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news

Re: [marketing] please advise how to donate money to non-Oracle OpenOffice.org

[eric b]

Le 28 sept. 10 à 21:19, Tom Mason a écrit :

You folk provide a tremendous service.  In the past, I was hesitant  
to donate money to Oracle.  I should be very pleased to donate to  
non-Oracle OpenOffice.org.





So feel free to donate to EducOO  ?  Our goal is Education, and  
neutrality.


EducOOo is a non profit association, volunteers, not being paid ..



Regards,
Eric Bachard


--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news

Re: [marketing] Thank you volunteers and Oracle!

[eric b]

Le 23 juil. 10 à 07:49, goldf...@aol.in a écrit :


Hi friends,


Hi,



OpenOffice will be available to more than 11 million Indian Kids  
next year.





So far,  the current version of OpenOffice.org running on XO  
machines, is OOo4Kids, a light version ( -35 to 40% of the size of  
OpenOffice.org), and specialy adapted for children.


For further information, see:  http://download.ooo4kids.org  and  
http://wiki.ooo4kids.org



Of course, there is an the obvious link with OpenOffice.org :  
OOo4Kids is produced by the Education Project ( http:// 
education.openoffice.org )



Regards,
Eric Bachard
--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news

[marketing] 300 000 downloads for OOo4Kids

[eric b]

=> http://download.ooo4Kids.org

The last changes between 0.9 and 0.9.5 are described in french here :  
http://blog.educoo.org
http://blog.educoo.org/dotclear/index.php?post/2010/05/30/Changements- 
apportés-par-OOo4Kids-0.9.5-%28par-rapport-à-la-version-0.9%29


Other relevant link : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news/2010/04/ 
preparing-ooo4kids-095.html



If you want to help us, to find resource and contribute back to  
improve OpenOffice.org, via the OpenOffice.org Education Project,  
donations are welcome.


OOo4Kids is made for Educational purpose, has been thought to work  
with students, making them discover OpenOffice.org source code,

without constraints, but just code, and having Fun.
The promise is, when the code is good enough, it will be proposed for  
integration into OpenOffice.org.



Thanks,
Eric Bachard

--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news

Re: [marketing] Online Open Office

[eric b]

Hi,

Le 21 mai 10 à 12:27, Gianvittorio a écrit :

If the issue is lack of RAM and USB support, why not talk to the  
Puppy linux community and Puppy CD's being delivered to those  
schools with OpenOffice pre-installed? The old hardware will  
perform again very well.



During LSM 2009 (Nantes), I test (during 4 days) OOo4Kids running on  
Celeron 500 + 128 MB or RAM, on a Puppy Linux : was much appreciated,  
and the teachers found it better adapted.


Of course, we tested OpenOffice.org on the same machine, but it was  
much slower, and not as well adapted for children.


Regards,
Eric Bachard


FYI : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/EnvironmentSetup/ 
Linux#Build_and_install_on_Puppy_Linux


--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news

Re: [marketing] Online Open Office

[eric b]

Le 21 mai 10 à 11:49, Lars Nooden a écrit :


Le 21 mai 10 à 12:29, eric b wrote:

Le 21 mai 10 à 11:21, Lars Nooden a écrit :
The download for OpenOffice.org Portable (which is what you would  
need
to run locally without worrying about dependencies) on Windows is  
a 92MB

download using over 230MB when installed.


 OpenOffice.org is more 450 MB than 230, so you probably mean
OpenOffice.org as compressed files ?


Hi, Eric,

Actually, I mentioned OpenOffice Portable by name and the download  
page

claims that it is a 92MB download and 230MB once installed:

http://portableapps.com/apps/office/openoffice_portable



Indeed, that's right  : 230 MB

So must be compressed files. Since the time I test OOo, I assume the  
size of OOo is more 450 MB than 230 MB



OpenOffice Portable is worth looking at if you haven't seen it  
already.
It's useful for sites (e.g. schools and businesses) where there is  
no IT

dept but a small group using the IT dept's budget to keep non-MS
products out of the hands of other people.



The problem I see, is a lot of schools have poor in RAM / old  
machines, and often  ... catastrophic network.


Now, with those machines, OpenOffice.org + logo (or not) on the USB  
stick :)  ...  is just not adapted (IMHO).



Regards,
Eric Bachard

--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news

Re: [marketing] Online Open Office

[eric b]

Le 21 mai 10 à 11:21, Lars Nooden a écrit :


On 05/21/2010 05:25 AM, Chaosun wrote:

... Another is the OOo has already installed on the computer no
matter the user knows or not, when required, the OOo will
automatically embeded into the browser to meet the needs...


That would in effect have users downloading an entire set of modules
from the net each and every time that user wishes.  They are quite  
big.

The download for OpenOffice.org Portable (which is what you would need
to run locally without worrying about dependencies) on Windows is a  
92MB

download using over 230MB when installed.



 OpenOffice.org is more 450 MB than 230, so you probably mean  
OpenOffice.org as compressed files ?


Just FYI, Portable OOo4Kids (http://download.ooo4kids.org)  is 65 to  
80 MB download, and 150 MB only installed (compressed). fr version is  
even 142 MB only:-)



Regards,
Eric Bachard

--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news

Re: [marketing] OOo Marketing Stuffs for a local events here Togo (West Africa) [moved from ooocon-discuss]

[eric b]

Hi,

Le 11 mai 10 à 22:47, Nahmsath YABOURI a écrit :


Sorry for this disturbance i may have caused here.



There is no disturbance, and your request is a good idea.

My purpose is just: if contacting an external association, the best  
is to contact it directly, nothing more.





I thought we were on d...@marketing.openoffice.org.

I will advice accordingly next time.Really sorry...



You shouldn't

Another possiblity could be : the fr project creates a marketing  
mailing list, and then this will be the right place :)



Regards,
Eric Bachard


--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news

Re: [marketing] OOo Marketing Stuffs for a local events here Togo (West Africa) [moved from ooocon-discuss]

[eric b]

Bonsoir,


Le 11 mai 10 à 19:00, Nahmsath YABOURI a écrit :


Merci Sophie,

Merci de m'indiquer comment m'abonner à cette liste.




Et pourquoi ne pas contacter directement l'association ?

La liste dev n'est pas vraiment le lieu pour parler d'une  
association, ni de marketing.


Cordialement,
Eric Bachard



--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news

Re: [marketing] OOo Marketing Stuffs for a local events here Togo (West Africa) [moved from ooocon-discuss]

[eric b]

Hi,

Le 11 mai 10 à 18:33, Sophie a écrit :


Hi Nahmsath,
Nahmsath YABOURI wrote:

Hi Florian,
"in which language do you need the materials? English?"
French will be the best, but English is Ok if it is what you have  
at the

moment.


So you should ask on the d...@fr.openoffice.org list.



Sorry but I tend to disagree.


There is a French association which is supposed to support this  
kind of events in French speaking countries.

I'm adding the list in CC, so they are aware of your request.



Why a list "dev" should be used for

1) marketing purpose

2) for an external association  ?


From my side, I'd suggest to join the people belonging to the  
association *directly*.



Whatever "dev" mailing list is not made for marketing 



Regards,
Eric Bachard

--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news

Re: [marketing] Templates for ALA conference

[eric b]

Hi,

Le 1 mars 10 à 17:11, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :

you wrote that OOo4Kids refuses to contribute back to  
OpenOffice.org and I longly

proofed the opposite.


No you did not.



Well, I do not try to convince you, but I'm sure other people read  
all the links I provided, have a more objective vision than you, and  
understand that we have no bad intention : we are honest, and we  
really want to contribute back to OpenOffice.org





And OOo4Kids copyright was not the point. About that, things are
extremely clear too :  OOo4Kids will not belong to a company, but to
a non profit association.


which is run by you.




No, that's yet another lie, hidden behind half-truth.


FYI, any non profit association is run by a C.A. (Administration  
Council), and everything is discussed and voted. At least it works  
that way inside EducOOo :-)


But the life of the association has nothing to do there, and OOo4Kids  
is not EducOOo.





I do note that you believe that companies are "evil".



Again, you try to manipulate, and derivate what I wrote. Your bad  
intentions are obvious, and more you write personnal attacks, less  
you are credible. Really sad ...



To answer you a last time, I believe nothing there : just facts. Sun  
did sale OpenOffice.org, and I refuse to see that happen again.




OOo4Kids is a sub project of the Education Project, a toy who aims  
to help students discovering the OpenOffice.org way of coding,have
Fun, and provide, in the middle-long term, core developers for
OpenOffice.org Project.
I wish it could be. But I have a hard time understanding how  
OOo4kids can be a subproject of the Education project,




Well, so far you never participated, nor helped the Education  
Project, nor contributed seriously to anything we did, and that's  
maybe the reason why you don't understand :-)



Again, as I wrote a lot of times, OOo4Kids is just a toy, a tool, to  
have Fun with the students, write code (probably most of it will stay  
useless, or will be not interesting for a backport though), and reach  
one of the main Education Project goals : teach OpenOffice.org source  
code, and share.


The Education Project has other objectives, and goals, obviously (and  
fortunaly).





given OOo has no say on what it does and whom it belongs to.



I'll repeat to make things clear :  OpenOffice.org belongs to Sun /  
Oracle, and that's sure, OpenOffice.org does not belong to the  
Community.






We don't need forks to create halos.



Writing  that, you proof that you really are unaware of the real  
need, OpenOffice.org has to find new devs ..  :-/



As answer : OpenOffice.org mostly does need people who know well  
OpenOffice.org source code, who teach it, and forward the knowledge  
to find new devs, and help to provide perennity to the project.


Those people are seldom, and that's what I myself try to do since  
several years.




Eric Bachard,
Lead,
OpenOffice.org Education Project

--
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Re: [marketing] Templates for ALA conference

[eric b]

Hi,

Le 1 mars 10 à 14:52, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :


Eric,

1) I don't write FUD: tell me about who owns the copyright for  
OOo4kids




What you wrote is (as usual frolm you) plain FUD : you wrote that  
OOo4Kids refuses to contribute back to OpenOffice.org and I longly  
proofed the opposite.



And OOo4Kids copyright was not the point. About that, things are  
extremely clear too :  OOo4Kids will not belong to a company, but to  
a non profit association.





2) your lines below show that, as friendly to OOo as it may be, it's
just not the same project.




OOo4Kids is a sub project of the Education Project, a toy who aims to  
help students discovering the OpenOffice.org way of coding,have Fun,   
and provide, in the middle-long term, core developers for  
OpenOffice.org Project.


Another side effect of it, is that this project helped the OOo  
community to connect with XO community, and Gdium community, and  
other potential halo effects will appear.




Eric Bachard
Lead,
OpenOffice.org Education Project


--
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Re: [marketing] Templates for ALA conference

[eric]

Hi,

Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :

Le Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:56:43 -0500,
Drew Jensen  a écrit :



I am unsure whether OOo4kids contributes anything of its own technology
back to OOo.


My advice : when you are unsure, do not post, because what you wrote
is plain wrong, and FUD.


I'll explain why :

- first, OOo4Kids does use LGPL V3 License**, fully compatible with 
OpenOffice.org source code, itself under LGPL V3 too. If anybody is 
interested to port any code we wrote into OpenOffice.org, we (OOo4Kids 
contributors) would be very pleased to accept the (back)port. Sincerlily.


=> technology contribution is possible


**to verify : the menu entry "License", is available from *anywhere* in
all OOo4Kids applications, and you can read: "OOo4Kids is released under
LGPL V3".


- second : I *clearly* proposed a backport from *any* code several
times, and I don't know why, but was not accepted. In fact, the issue 
look similar with Novell and go-oo, because both are under LGPL V3, but 
the changes are not accepted by Sun / Oracle.



Some links :
http://gsl.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=2267

The full thread :
http://gsl.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=dev&by=date&from=2009-04-01&to=2009-04-30&first=1&count=30

=> again technology contribution is possible


- third, on the OOo4Kids wiki page ( http://wiki.ooo4kids.org ), it is
clearly written everything is done to contribute back to OpenOffice.org, 
through OOo4Kids. Of course not everything can be backported (we cannot 
ask the students to provide professionnal code), but if a feature, a new 
idea desserves it, we'll ask/propose a backport. This is one of the 
objectives of OOo4Kids : having Fun providing new devs and new code.


=> again technology contribution is possible


- last, as proof of our goo will, after I asked to EducOOo  C.A.) it was 
proposed that EducOOo,reverses money to the OpenOffice.org project.


Link:
http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news/2010/01/educooo-reversing-money-to.html

=> other type of contribution is possible


My conclusion is there is absolutely nothing against OpenOffice.org with 
OOo4Kids, excepted in your imagination.



Therefore I don't think it's a good idea to even consider it. 



I read everything carefully, and in your mail, I only can retrieve 
negative things, and unjustified attacks against OOo4Kids (and 
undirectly me).



IMHO OpenOffice.org needs people who produce "solid" results, like code 
with core developers, or volunteers providing "mesurable contributions", 
but not people with a "destructive role" like the one you seem to play.


I don't have more time to spend with you. EOT for me, and welcome in my 
/ignore mode.



Eric Bachard
Lead,
OpenOffice.org Education project, and core developer for OpenOffice.org 
and OOo4Kids



--
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news






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Re: [marketing] Request for funding to go to Scale in Los Angeles

[eric]

Cor Nouws a écrit :

Alexandro Colorado wrote (31-01-10 19:12)


my suggestion is to go to the education IRC rooom and understand where
ericb is comming from, is just better than trying to force an answer.


Yes, Alexandro proposal is IMHO better.



If a project lead accuses people or situations in the project, it is nothing 
more than reasonable that he is asked for explanation.



That's strange : when I read Cor, this is always my fault. Thanks Cor.


So, just one example , directly pasted from

http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council_Log_20091217


""""""""" Quote """""""""""""""
[15:27:04] louis_to in this case, I propose the Education Project issue
[15:27:22] louis_to we have discussed previously it has problems: 
OOo4kids linkage, for instance

[15:27:41] louis_to and the fact that the lead seems to alienate a lot
of develoopers, arccording to reports
[15:28:12] louis_to for this reason, we chose mentoring @ooo not
mentoring at education
[15:28:34] louis_to I am to talk to Alexandro tomrrow and will also see
about communicating with Eric

"""""""""" end quotes """""""""""""""""""""""""""


It is written :  "I alienate a lot of developers" ( ???) , or "reports 
about me" (is it legal to write reports "about me" without inform me and 
publicaly claim that BTW? Who wrote reports about me too could be 
interesting) ... and so on.



Some days after I discovered that, I read carefully the IRC meeting log 
again, and if I'm not wrong, nobody objected what was said about me.


I hope now, you understand better the distance I'll take with the
OpenOffice.org project, mostly with the "Community Council", and why I
no longer read everything coming from this "entity", nor answer any 
sollicitation from its members.



I prefer stop there, and avoid disturb the list with bad stories.

Regards,
Eric Bachard

Lead,
OpenOffice.org Education Project

--
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news


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Re: [marketing] Request for funding to go to Scale in Los Angeles

[eric b]

ing exposure to the whole
Education project so it couldn't be very practical.



Exactly : one hour is very limited, and the content is generic, but
dedicated presentations can be done on demand.
why haven't you replied on the FOSDEM CFP that i have send on the  
education list as well.



Since 4 years already, and every year, I did a conference, or devroom  
at FOSDEM for OpenOffice.org Project . That's one of my prefered  
events in the year.


But this year is unfortunaly not possible, for family reason. And  
that's simply why I can't propose something, nothing else (my family  
has always the priority).





Too bad that we have the education project not there or represented.



I'll ask Thorsten Behrens to represents the Education Project.  
Thorsten is extremely well appreciated from the students, contributes  
a lot to the Education Project, and is every day present on the  
#education.openoffice.org channel. With me, he helped the students  
zillions of times, and I have no doubt he will certainly accept to  
replace me..



I would be happy if you can provide us some information that we can  
at least present at the booth.





Since I got a new -and reliable - car, I'll try to attend the friday  
(afternoon, or evening), until saturday begining of afternoon (not  
sure).  Must discuss the thing with my wife :-)



Regards,
Eric Bachard


--
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Re: [marketing] Request for funding to go to Scale in Los Angeles

[eric b]

I forgot :

If my vote is valid (not sure), I'd add a +1 for Alexandro.

Regards,


Eric Bachard,
Lead,
OpenOffice.org Education Project

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Re: [marketing] Request for funding to go to Scale in Los Angeles

[eric b]

Hi Alexandro,

Le 11 janv. 10 à 20:51, Alexandro Colorado a écrit :



Telling about the education project could be one thing. I remember  
your

 presentation in Orvieto, Alexandro. It was full of ideas, but not so
specific. It looks like a container of wishes for the next decade 
(s) or so

;-) To be really attractive, it might be shorter, more practical?


Well of course, the Education project is considered a "Young/ 
Incubator" project so most things are still on it's way and planned.


Not exactly :  we did a lot, but outside of the OOo website.  
Creativity needs freedom, and OpenOffice.org website does not exactly  
provide the tools we need.




There is an ONG backing it up with EducOO and there is some real  
work happening on some areas of education including OOo4Kids  
(http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/) and Efforts. But some are still being  
developed like the "CampusLibre" project.


Just FYI :

- we created strong links with the schools we worked with, and around  
20 students have been mentored since two years


- OpenOffice.org Education Project today counts ~ 110 members (was  
only 7 or 8 when I started ... )


- Campus Libre Project counts ~ 200 members : http://campus- 
libre.educoo.org/index.php


- Edulibre (free Forge for collaborative work) is new and  
operationnal (we'll launch it soon officially) : http:// 
educoo.edulibre.org/


- is the XO port *not* something concrete ? FYI, OOo4Kids will be in  
the next Sugar version : we created a strong link with another community


- Aren't ClassRooms concrete ? ( everything is on the OpenOffice.org  
wiki )




The goal of the presentation was giving exposure to the whole  
Education project so it couldn't be very practical.



Exactly : one hour is very limited, and the content is generic, but  
dedicated presentations can be done on demand.



I am not sure that showing a fancy graph with the internal  
organization and processes would be very enlightning or attractive  
to someone that want to join the project. Instead I gave an overal  
roundup on areas where they wanted to participate and if they  
thought it was a good idea or not. Most of the wishlist did include  
starting a project in their locality because WE NEED FUNDING. So  
yes, wishful thinking means ... once we get resources we can do X  
or Y.




Yet another concrete fact : EducOOo ( http://educoo.org ) proposed to  
reverse 10 to 15% of the donations to help OpenOffice.org (students  
or Education related, but othr cases can be).



Regards,

Eric Bachard
Lead,
OpenOffice.org Education Project

--
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Re: [marketing] Proposed change of Marketing Project Lead

[eric b]

Hi John,

Le 1 janv. 10 à 20:37, John McCreesh a écrit :
As we're entering a busy period (3.2 to launch, OOoCon 2011 to  
award, MS-Office 2010 to compete with..) I have offered to stay on  
as co-Lead until Florian finds co-Lead(s) to help him.




...

So, I would ask you all to confirm whether you are happy to endorse  
this change of Lead, and if so, please welcome Florian and give him  
your

support as he takes up this challenging position.



To know well both of you, I'd like to say you thank you for your  
great, work, and add I'm really glad that you propose Florian.


Since years, Florian does a really great job, and there is no doubt  
for me, he'll become a great Project Lead.



Please count +1 for Florian from me


And Happy New Year 2010 !!


Eric Bachard


--
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[marketing] Re: [users] Re: [Announce] Education Project : reactivation of the us...@education mailing list

[eric b]

Le 29 déc. 09 à 19:47, Larry Gusaas a écrit :


To subscribe, just send a mail at  : users- 
subscr...@openoffice.org  confirm, and that's all : you can start  
contributing to the Education Project !!


Don't you mean users-subscr...@education.openoffice.org ?




OOops, my bad : the right address is indeed :  users- 
subscr...@education.openoffice.org


Thank you very much for your help !!


Seasonal Greatings to all of you !!


Eric Bachard
Lead,
OpenOffice.org Education Project

--

qɔᴉɹə

[marketing] [Announce] Education Project : reactivation of the us...@education mailing list

[eric b]

Hello,


After two years of an intense activity of the french part of the  
education.openoffice.org project, we are ready to reactivate this  
international list : this is one of our objectives for 2010 !!


To subscribe, just send a mail at  : users-subscr...@openoffice.org   
confirm, and that's all : you can start contributing to the Education  
Project !!
To become a member, please follow the instructions provided there :  
http://education.openoffice.org/servlets/ProjectMemberList



Education Project aims to create a bridge between Educational World  
and OpenOffice.org Project, following 3 axes :


- create a network of teachers, using OpenOffice.org
- provide a sharing area
- provide new developers, and spread OpenOffice.org source code

Currently, this project counts around 110 members, but everybody is  
welcome, and there is so much to do, that any contribution is wamrly  
welcome too !!


Everybody is welcome : teachers, students, just curious :)

For the one willing to help us, we need people able to help us for  
the website, translate, manage the wiki, but not only (the list is  
not limited).
Other need is to compare, work together (collaborative work), and  
concatenate informations providing from several educational systems,  
and of course, share our knowledge.


Be welcome, and Seasonal Greatings to all of you !!

Eric Bachard
Lead,
OpenOffice.org Education Project


Below, several links, will help you to understand what we do, and more :

Official OpenOffice.org Education Project website : http:// 
education.openoffice.org
Education Project Wiki page : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/ 
wiki/Education_Project


--
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[marketing] Some recent news from Education Project

[eric b]

Hi,

FYI, some links, to see what the Education Project did recently, and  
the ideas behind the actions we did :  make the Community growing,  
creating a bridge with Educational world !
Both links concern projects with french engineers schools, working  
with us since 2 years.


Link 1: extend OpenOffice.org, mostly Impress ( was a study around HP  
Tablet PC)  http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news/2009/12/ecole-centrale- 
nantes-and-openofficeorg.html


Link 2:  make the OpenOffice.org Community growing, create "halo  
effect" and explain the OpenOffice.org source code having Fun :  
http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news/2009/12/openofficeorg-education- 
project-and.html



Merry Xmass to everyone !  :-)


Eric Bachard
Lead,
OpenOffice.org Education Project

--
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Re: [marketing] Videos of OOo4Kids online

[eric b]

Hi,

Le 1 nov. 09 à 13:42, Kok-Jien Loh a écrit :


Hi,

look very interesting, any chance to download it anyway to try it  
out?  I am at the Singapore.  very much to see how to promote  
openoffice in school

here.



You're right : behind the software, it is question to promote  
OpenOffice.org anyway.


The link for the download is :  http://download.ooo4kids.org


Regards,

Eric Bachard
Lead,
OpenOffice.org Education Project

--
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Re: [marketing] Nokia funds KOffice for mobiles

[eric b]

Hi Ian,

Le 19 oct. 09 à 12:34, Ian a écrit :


So port OpenOffice.org to say a G-phone - Google probably want  
people to
use their on-line apps but an option for OOo would be good. Ok, it  
will
probably run like a drain to start with but once the concept is  
achieved

no doubt the technology will improve.



Not sure




* Cost;


OOo itself costs nothing but obviously increasing RAM and processor
power does. However, these increase and get less costly all the  
time. I

beleve the g-phone has about 192 meg of RAM free for apps. If that was
doubled I think OOo would run acceptably for many users.




FYI, OOo4Kdis runs honestly on Celeron 500 + 128 MB or RAM ( using  
Puppy Linux distribution ), or on XO ( Sugar / 900 MHz / 521 MB or RAM).


The drawback : no Java, nor Base, but who cares, if we got a reader ?

And if I can, we could just limit the features to act as a simple  
reader. Will probably divide the size by a factor 2





If K-office does it better then OOo has a problem. If K-office gets
established in the mobile space I doubt OOo will then get in at all.



IMHO, the fact Nokia has been choosen by Nokia, is because of the QT  
dependency ( QT wass TrollTech and is now Nokia )



Regards,
Eric Bachard


--
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Re: [marketing] 1. Open-Source-Treffen in Munich

[eric . bachard]

Hi Bob,

Sorry or the strange format of my answer (using a webmail), but I just found a
way to connect me from holydays today, so that'sz better than nothing  :)


Selon Bob Bolmer :

> Please don't forget the education user base. I teach at a business college and
> technical school. Education is one way to spread the word about Oo.

Indeed, but things are complicated.


> I think we need ways to reach educators and students of all ages. My students
are adults, but introducing people in vocational, high school, and post
> secondary schools is essential.

I fully agree :)

FYI, there are a lot of things you (or anybody interested) can do for Education
Project, including help us from the marketing point of view.

I'm currently on holidays, so offline until approximatively next monday, but
waiting, I'd suggest you to have a look at our wiki page :

http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project/Effort

(please have a look at the main OpenOffice.org Wiki page to see other things we
started, like the Effort)

I could talk about the work in progress with several engineers schools we
started, and so on, but maybe we could continue in private ?

Last but not least, please have a look at : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org

Regards,
Eric Bachard

-- 
Education Project: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news


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Re: [marketing] Upcoming OpenOffice.org Presentation at FOSSVT

[eric b]

Hi Gabriel,

Le 12 mars 09 à 13:37, Gabriel Gurley a écrit :


As always, feel free to contact me if you have any other questions,  
thoughts or suggestions.




I got one question : will you talk about the Education Project, and  
if so , what will you say ?  (can be continued offline)



Thanks,
Eric Bachard

--
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Re: [marketing] A different Market focus

[eric b]

Hi Graham,

Le 28 janv. 09 à 11:18, Graham Lauder a écrit :

=> http://education.openoffice.org

:-)

Regards,
Eric Bachard


I am already, I subscribe to the lists



d...@education.openoffice.org ?

I was wondering about the opportunity to create one  
market...@education, because the need it enormous




and I'm in the process of organising a


Sorry, I missed the info, but that's, great. Currently, Alexandro  
Colorado is doing a great work in this sense, but there is too much  
to do and we need people. Nevertheless, I'm glad to learn New Zealand  
is covered too :-)


BTW:  if you are interested to discuss more, you can meet me on IRC  
(we have some actions in progress, and so on).




trip for Louis to all the major universities in NZ.


Interesting. Once the exact list will be known , I'd be delighted to   
know more about that :-) Looks like, Louis forget to report what was  
said during OOoCon. At least, found nothing.



Thanks,
Eric Bachard


--
qɔᴉɹə

Re: [marketing] Mozilla marketing brochure

[eric b]

Hi,

Sorry for answering lately ( I'm just back from Work).

If you need or want to propose something about Education Project, I  
invite you to join the d...@education.openoffice.org mailing list, and  
I think someone will answer you.
But whatever you want to tell us, please use public mailing lists:  
this way, all concerned people will be aware.


Thanks in advance !


Eric Bachard,
OpenOffice.org Education Project co Lead



Le 7 janv. 09 à 16:26, Geertjan Weijman a écrit :


Hi Juergen,

Ok, I will discuss the possibilities with my boss and give you an  
answer next week.




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Re: [marketing] Mozilla marketing brochure

[eric b]

Hi,

Le 1 janv. 09 à 12:08, sophie a écrit :


To be honest about your document: I (but a lot off other people)  
discovered its existence after it has been created, without any
announcement nor information, nor invitation to work with you (or  
it was well hidden on some list). And whatever people will say,  
you decide at

then end,


http://tinyurl.com/9qcnmk

http://tinyurl.com/8xjnff

Seeing the length of the threads on two different lists (d...@fr and
d...@fr, may be it's enough to say that it has not been created without



any announcement or coordination :(



I'll limit myself to the facts, and the threads you refer does  
confirm what I wrote:


=>  Education Project people discovered the existence after the  
document has been created.



The reason is very simple : it was discussed on an " exotic " list.  
Indeed, discuss about Education stuff on Documentation list does  
explain a lot why it was difficult for us (Education Project people)  
to discover the existence of the topic and provide feedback and  
opinions .


And if I can, the thread were very important, *only once* we were  
aware. Yet another fact, who tends to proof the documentation list  
was not the right place ( we are "forced" to discuss the point over  
there" )


Last, what does mean coordination when the topic is not discussed at  
the right place ? Even if people are informed of the existence of a  
mailing list, it does not mean they will subscribe, and we lose half  
of the contributors working like that => counterproductive again




and has done a very good work in a fair manner with the brochures  
he has made, thanks a lot Igor for this work.




Nobody does contest Igor's work: thanks a lot to him for his work.

But the way you "bypassed" the Education project is simply  
counterproductive, because you do like if the Education Project was  
not there, what is obviously not the case  :-)


So, yet another time, I invite people interested to contribute to  
Education Project, for whatever, including e.g. improving the  
website, improving the Education Project wiki page , and so on ... ,  
to join us, and start working with us: there is so much to do, and  
they are warmly welcome !




End of Topic for me



And Happy New Year to all of you :-)

Eric Bachard

--
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Re: [marketing] Mozilla marketing brochure

[eric b]

Hi Jurgen,

Le 30 déc. 08 à 10:15, Juergen Schmidt a écrit :


Hi Alexandro,

do you aware of the flyers that we already have. I know the German  
community have one and we have prepared a developer, an education



Can you please tell us more about the Education flyer ?  As Education  
Project co Lead, I'm very interested, to know what such flyer does  
contain.


And one more time, I'm just wondering why it has never being  
discussed on Education Project lists, or at least, presented over  
there (nothing in the archives afaik).



Last but not least, for the one not aware, the Education Project  
website is : http://education.openoffice.org



Thanks in advance,

Eric Bachard


--
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[marketing] [OT] Re: [project leads] Re: [discuss] Re: OpenOffice.org Community Mapping Project

[eric b]

Hello Eike,


I have put the OT flag, because my answer  does no longer match the  
initial subject


Le 2 nov. 08 à 12:22, Eike Rathke a écrit :


See http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg? 
listName=dev&msgNo=15654





Sure, I read it, but my concern is about code core developers. What  
I'd like to see, is a map showing the people writing regular code for  
OOo, to have sort of photo, where such devs are not mixed with all  
the other, or maybe using another color, or something else but clear,  
showing easely how many are doing that, compared to the other.


And yes, I think, be listed this way, is IMHO a minimum the project  
could do for regular volunteers or profesionall writing code for  
OpenOffice.org.


This is even very easy to count them :)





For me developers are the one who fix bugs, add new features ..


The map is about OOo development, certainly there are not only core  
code developers involved in development, no?




Yes, sure, the map... but I don't like how people play with the word  
"development". My conviction is, if you want to fix bugs and add new  
features, the role of core code developers is essential, and should  
be the first line fight of every day in the project. The rest is  
important of course, and you can add zillions of people helping, and  
contributing, but I think like some other people, that OpenOffice.org  
future can be compromised if we don't care.  Even with millions of "  
meta " developers around.


That's what I wanted to say.


EOT for me.

Regards,
Eric Bachard



--
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[marketing] Re: [project leads] Re: [discuss] Re: OpenOffice.org Community Mapping Project

[eric b]

Hi Andre,


Just a question : what does mean Developer for you exactly ?

Looking at your map, I didn't found too much of people who commited  
anything, and I seriously doubt this is a correct description of the  
OpenOffice.org developers, but maybe I misunderstood the sense of the  
word ...


For me developers are the one who fix bugs, add new features ..



Regards,
Eric Bachard


Le 30 oct. 08 à 12:57, André Schnabel a écrit :


Hi,

Zaheda Bhorat schrieb:


:-(  We have only six community entries so far in our attempt to  
create an OpenOffice.org community map. None of the entries  
include developers. Our goal was to get off to a great start to  
this project with many entries in time for OOoCon 2008 in Beijing  
next week.


Sometimes it might be better to use the resources that are already  
there instead of creating new ones:


http://www.frappr.com/ooodev/map

This has many of our developers and contributors.SOmewith short  
statements what they do here in the project. (Unfortunately most of  
the recent entries are spam)


The curious thing about communities is that they grow where they  
like - and not when and where we like them to grow.


André

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[marketing] [Ann] Call for donation for Education and Mac OS X porting projects

[eric b]

Hi,

Several OpenOffice.org Projects have no or very limited resources,  
like e.g. Mac OS X Aqua port and Education Project (still incubator  
project).


To continue the effort, like mentor students writing code for  
OpenOffice.org project, help developers attending conferences, or pay  
them expensive memberships for development (like Apple ADC, or iPhone  
SDK ), or even pay one skilled developer to write some new feature,  
they need a bit of money.


For more information, please have a look at : http:// 
eric.bachard.free.fr/news  ( and if you need more information, feel  
free to ask me in private )


Thank you !

Eric Bachard

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Re: [marketing] Congrats OOo! Best Project Winner - Sourceforge Community Choice Awards

[eric b]

Hi,

Le 29 juil. 08 à 05:30, Ivan M a écrit :


... and best project for the enterprise
... and best project for educators



Sorry, must be my poor english, but can someone explain me what  
"Educators" means here ? The link is not very clear imho


Thanks :)

Eric Bachard

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Re: [marketing] Greetings to oOo marketing project

[eric b]

Hello Yuhan Fang,


This will not provide you a complete answer -other did-, but I'd like  
to promote a project nobody mentionned, but who basically should  
interest students :-)  For that, I'd suggest you to have a look at  
OpenOffice.org Education Project (who is an incubator project)


For example, to answer curious students, you could talk about our  
website : http://education.openoffice.org ( yes we need web designers  
to improve it, and more people involved)


Other information you can add is about our very active wiki page :   
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project  e.g. :


- to attract new developers writing code for OpenOffice.org Project,  
we created dedicated effort :  http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/ 
wiki/Education_Project/Effort
- and to explain how OpenOffice.org Development works, we even  
created and started ClassRoom : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/ 
wiki/Education_ClassRoom


Some great devs from Sun joined the effort, and did very good  
lectures (like Philipp Lohmann and Mathias Bauer). Other are  
scheduled (to be confirmed).


We really need help, promotion and a lot of things to become a real  
project ( Education is only Incubator project today), so everybody is  
warmly welcome, and if you could inform about the existence of  
Education Project (what is basically intersting in Campus), I'd be  
gratefull :-)


Last but not least, if you need futher information, we have a  
dedicated IRC channel, for the one who have questions, or have  
questions, or even are curious :


Server : irc.freenode.net
Channel : #education.openoffice.org


I Hope this will bring you further information, making your  
presentation more consistent, e.g. in front of curious students  :-)



Best regards,
Eric Bachard




Le 28 juil. 08 à 22:24, Yuhan Fang a écrit :


Hello everyone,

I would like to help in the promotion of OpenOffice.org,  
particularly to college students. I'm currently an undergraduate  
student at Yale, and I find that OpenOffice.org is well suited to  
most college papers and presentations. Price is not a big factor  
for most students here because the university heavily subsidizes  
Microsoft products. Nevertheless, I am able to win converts via the  
included PDF export functionality alone. My immediate goal is to  
include OpenOffice.org in the IT introduction that is given to all  
students by students at the beginning of the year; ultimately (and  
this is in the very far future), I hope to convince the school to  
install OpenOffice.org network-wide and promote it as recommended  
software for university computing.


I'm interested in contributing, distributing, or helping out in any  
way I can. So far, I've been trying to convert my immediate circle  
of friends and frantically emailing various IT staff; any pointers  
to work that needs to be done are welcome. Thanks!


Sincerely,
Yuhan Fang


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Re: [marketing] OOo brochure - Should we keep the credits or not ?

[eric b]

Hello Igor,

Le 3 mai 08 à 16:57, Igor Barzilai a écrit :


Hello Eric and all the team ;)
Concerning the OOo brochure, Eric suggests to delete the initiators  
in the document.


Well,see below what I propsoe ;-)

Of course, the initiators will remain the same, and thanks to you for  
this very good flyer btw  ;-)



( http://fr.openoffice.org/files/documents/67/4134/OOO-brochure-ent- 
fr-v2.zip  )

What do you all think about it ? Should we keep the credits or not ?



The point is:  OpenOffice.org is a community Project, and the flyer  
must represent the entire Project, not only 3 contributors.



If I can, there is an obvious parallel with developers who write  
OpenOfice.org code: when anybody wants to know who exactly did what,  
cvs , bonsai and About + CTRL SDT give immediate and precise answers.  
But never this is written when you use whatever feature ;)



Waiting, here is what I propose:

1) avoid contributors names directly on a flyer

2) put this chapter "Credits"  at the end of the document (why on  
first page btw ? )


3) put the legal information about trademarks (imho they must be  
written, but IANAL )


4) add a link, e.g. an URL where the info about the initiators is  
clearly mentionned, and where the .odt file, containing the CC  
license can be downloaded



What do you think ?


Regards,
Eric Bachard

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Re: [Marketing] resources allocated to mac aqua port

[eric b]

Hi Andreas,


Le 11 janv. 08 à 00:28, andreas gruenwald a écrit :


Dear OpenOffice Team,

I wonder about postings about resource shortage and allocation to  
something else in the development mailing list for the mac aqua port

regarding a delay to version 3.


During last Mac OS X IRC meeting, it was decided to provide a new  
development snapshot, for 2.4.x


Was announced on Planet too.




Did Sun realize the increase in apple mac sales and popularity?


I'm glad to read what I wrote since years. In fact, there are two  
things.  Sun corp, and Sun Engineers.


The first category probably didn't understand really, but I don't  
have more infos. I now can say, we received more help from Apple than  
from Sun corp :-)



The second category, the engineers, was great: they helped a lot the  
beginners we were, and the work they did was fantastic, you can  
believe me.


Now, if 3.0 is needed to achieve the work, there is a good reason :  
there is no other way to provide a good port than doing things  
seriously. And this needs time.



... and here come the Mac users: instead of help OpenOffice.org  
project, they helped another project, you mention below.

Believe me or not, but we didn't receive help from the Mac users.

Shaun McDonald, who replaced me as Mac OS X port Lead, can confirm  
things didn't change.


BTW:  the Mac OS X port project does not even exist officially in the  
listed projects on the site !  ( a proof something is wrong  
somewhere ... )



Some companies had been already late in Linux and open source on  
servers. Apple was always pioneering new technologies in the  
market. Their
customers are the trendsetter best described in Malcolm Gladwells  
book "the tipping point".



X11 on mac is a hurdle, printing is a surprise regarding colors,  
shortcuts are Unix like and the look is rough.


We'd accept your patch(es) with great pleasure  :)

Don't foget: OpenOffice.org project is a free software project, and  
the secret is: do it yourself.



That's the reason why, 3 funny people like Eric Hoch, Florian Heckl  
and myself, started to believe to a Mac OS X port 3 years ago.
This year, I can tell you it will become true. Thanks to all Sun  
engineers who helped us.



I really do appreciate Open Office and the undergoing development  
of a bibliography functional for every day scientific publishing.  
Microsoft

Office was not really stable on my previous powerbook, now I use
NeoOffice an a Intel Macbook.


Please read above:  doing that, you don't really help OpenOffice.org  
project, just a fork, not really contributing in return.



Beside a native mac port I consider the educational and university  
system a good starting point to delight more users with the overall

very usable and stable OO suite, resp. Sun StarOffice.


As Education project Co Lead, I just can invite you to join Education  
project : more we have members, more strong we will be !!



In other words: with limited power and resources the way to spread  
innovations is the snowball pattern;-) Ordinary consumer trust the
advice of experts in their circle of friends but are shy to leave  
the MS dictatorship on their own.




The amount of resources and the quality are not necessary correlated.  
As example, I'd suggest you an interesting article to be read ( don't  
feed  the troll, but analyze the comments, extremely rich and  
interesting instead) : http://moishelettvin.blogspot.com/2006/11/ 
windows-shutdown-crapfest.html


You will discover too much people, and / or too complicated can be  
counterproductive too.


But the fact is, and you're right with that, OpenOffice.org project  
does not count enough developers.



I'll do some pub for Education project, since this is one Education  
project objective to find more  ;-)


The idea is simple:  find peers teachers/students learning how  
contribute, and writing either a peice of code, or an extension, or  
helping Qa or whatever.


Be sure, if we fond applications, Mac OS X project will have some  
"priority"  ;-)



Only this will change the world of Office suites, and if you want to  
help us, please forward the info:


http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project/Welcome_en


Regards,
Eric Bachard



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Re: [Marketing] Size of OOo is a real issue in its spread

[eric b]

Hi,




Not sure what you are referring to.  AFAIK, the official OOo  
distribution

for Linux is a > 120 MB download.


 Download size is an issue for take up on Windows though. I have no  
idea about the Mac.


For both X11 and Aqua (not using X11) versions, count between 130 and  
140MB for an archive.


FYI, Christian Lohmaier, alias cloph, is doing black magic for  
language packs integration.
This should solve both bandwidth and server place ( but not the user  
side )


Something nobody discussed is the result (archive size) X (number of  
downloads) in a year.

IMHO, this is an important factor too.




Regards,
Eric Bachard

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Re: [Marketing] Mac OS X PR

[eric b]

Hi,


Le 7 mai 07 à 10:09, Cor Nouws a écrit :



Thanks for the other pointers as well,




Not too much links, but I'd prefer see :

http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/news/index.html mentionned  in the  
first page of http://www.openoffice.org , because it is IMHO more  
atractive.


than http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/  , for people searching infos  
about the life of the port.




Thanks,
Eric Bachard



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Re: [Marketing] Mac OS X PR

[eric b]

Hi,


Le 7 mai 07 à 09:54, Cor Nouws a écrit :



I'd encourage you all to blog, post links to blogs to news sites,  
and have

casual conversations with people in the media. My blog as always is
http://www.mealldubh.org :-)


We are going to try to catch the interest of Dutch media.
BTW, I see a small typo on the OOo-home page. The main actor is  
missing an i : "Phlipp Lohmann"




Is it possible to put something more "Mac OS X port " oriented  
( instead of one people only ) ?


1) Herbert Duerr and all people working for the port desserve to be  
mentionned too, don't they ?


2)  the Mac OS X port does not start from *last week* only , but  
started *several years ago*.



Thanks,
Eri Bachard

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Re: [Marketing] OOo product flyer update

[eric b]

Hi,

If this can hep the debate, I'll answer about the support of previous  
versions of Mac OS .




No need, if the machine will run OSX and X11 it will run OOo.


Not quite... It must be running OS 10.3.9 as a bare minimum. Few  
(if any Mac
owners would be running earlier versions, but if they were than  
there is no

way that OO.o 2.x would run, and they'd be stuck with 1.1.x




This does concern a very little number of users.




Hardware
spec is a PC thing.  I'm told by a Mac entusiast friend that Macs are
above that. :)


Not quite correct. I have a mac which will only run OS 10.2 or  
earlier. The

reason is its hardware specs... :)



One year ago, the amount of people still using Mac OS X 10.2 aka  
Jaguar, was less than 2%


No idea what it does represent today, but sure, this is *sure* less.

Mac OS X porting project does not have enough resources*** to  
maintain Mac OS X 10.2 (too much important changes between 10.2 and  
10.3) , so the minimal requirement is Mac OS X10.3, quite correct IMHO.


*** See my blog about what are our needs for native port : http:// 
eric.bachard.free.fr/news/



Conclusion:

- consider Mac OS 10.2 as obsolete is not the best, but a good  
compromise.

- minimal requirement : Mac OS X 10.3.9


Regards,
Eric Bachard


@alex : It is up to you to provide us (big) patches to make it work  
on Mac OS X 10.2.
I have tried, and e.g. the (maybe complete ) locale detection part  
has to be rewritten, since Apple decided to change everything without  
assume easy compatibility for several functions.
Other non trivial point, dlopen part is not the same *at all* between  
10.2 and 10.3... and I probably forgot some other code parts to  
rewrite. If I'm not wrong.



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Re: [Marketing] Looking to do a brief interview about openoffice.org?

[eric b]

Hi Daniel,


Le 19 août 06 à 10:31, Daniel Carrera a écrit :


I'm happy for Chad to do the interview.


-1


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Re: [Marketing] OOo Mac OS X port - VS - NeoOffice.org

[eric b]

Hi,

Le 3 juil. 06 à 10:58, André Wyrwa a écrit :



Furthermore, does the LGPL give everyone the right to just fork off  
and

not contribute back?



No idea, but interesting question.



Could that maybe one of the aspects of openness
that we have to wrap our minds around as well, when we praise it?
(There was an interesting discussion recently on the firefox-dev list
about exactly the same topic.)


I don't follow Firefox-dev mailing list, sorry





A lot of workarounds to make believe the user it works.

It seems that for a lot of users it actually *does* work.



Technically, I'm not sure this is as good at it looks... And users  
are not objectives : only appearances seems to be important for them.


IMHO, 10MB of code cant be anything else than appearance...

Again : our work is a deep and long term work. Waiting we can stop  
with X11, OpenOffice.org for Mac OS X works, and we are proud it works.


Native port does progress every days, and will replace X11 version asap.

This is the most important for OpenOffice.org project.



Yes, really, we got that you guys are working on a technologically
superior (and in that sense "correct" - if you want to) mac port of
OpenOffice.org. A port, as well, that contributes back, doesn't ask  
for

money and *is* officially and in all aspects OpenOffice.org.

Doesn't change the fact that *currently* a mac user who find
OpenOffice.org for Mac and NeoOffice, might choose NeoOffice, because
the user experience is better, no matter how crappy it is implemented.



Is it so important?  We only have to focus on Mac port first : a lot  
of very interesting work has to be done.


Another important point : I (sorry, me again) as often as I can,  
insist to provide a complete documentation, to really *free* the  
code : not only comment it (already in the code),


but explaining the design, the organization of the OpenOffice.org par  
of code we have to modify, and why.


With simple words and simple diagrams.


We started with vcl - obviously  - and will probably continue with  
avmedia (player), dtrans (drag and drop), sfx2,svx (controls)...etc


Maybe other. This helps twice :

- this helps us to implement everything, including have a  
constructive opinion about what can be modified
- new devs coming are happy to understand how things are organized,  
and are efficient faster



Once I'll find some time, I'll document the bridge (the heart of  
OpenOffice.org), I learned it for the Mac Intel port.
Not to replace the excellent documentation Daniel Boelzle already  
wrote, but just complete with simple sentences and make it more easy  
to understand.


From a new comer point of view.


What we need is a *real* support from marketing project :  we need  
developers, we need communication, and users will come.


"real support" means : support only one Mac port, us .

Simple, stupid, but efficient.






BTW, Java is Sun and is like X11 : not native on Mac OS X.


Well, i really don't have a big clue about Mac OS X, but as i  
understood

it, Java comes preinstalled with the system.



Yes, but the problem is quite the same ...



Hence the user doesn't need
to install it separately like X11. Furthermore, Chad's explanations
about that the X server being represented as a separate program is bad
user experience also makes sense to me.



Unfortunaly, since Mac OS X 10.4 (aka Tiger) ,  X11 is no more pre- 
installed, no more downloadable, and we pay the full price the fact  
we have to help Mac users for install it.


This is one more thing not helping us.




And BTW: in one of your other mails you blame Chad for considering
people stupid and then say "what if Sun drops Java support for Mac".
How likely is that?


??

If I'm not wrong with the mail you mean, I exactly wrote (simple copy  
paste ) :  "BTW : just imagine one minute Apple decides to drop  
Java ..."



What I want to say is "Apple always decides alone", without  
advertise. And the only way to stay "Apple  compatible" is to use  
Apple API, either Carbon or Cocoa.


Any other choice will very probably be a bad one, in average or long  
term, and OpenOffice.org choices can't be short term.


e.g. integrate changes in OpenOffice.org build process, and QA  
process without any glitch is not short term plan, really.





Please, think about all this. You are starting all these fights  
because

you think supporting NeoOffice is bad for our community,



Exactly.

That's not only because "I" think, please, and yes, I won't stop to  
take care of that.



The best thing for the Marketing project is to encourage  
OpenOffice.org projects first.


Mac OS X porting project is one of OpenOffice.org projects, and must  
have priority.



FYI, I already asked help from marketing project : http:// 
marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=22189


I have even try to contact marketing project lead ...




So what, we don't need such minor contributors like Chad as long as we
have heros like you?



Inde

Re: [Marketing] OOo Mac OS X port - VS - NeoOffice.org

[eric b]

Ooops..

- prepared a conference about OpenOffice.org project for RMLL  
( Nancy (France) 4th -11th of july 2006 )



The RMLL (Nancy, France) are in fact from 4th of july to 7th of july.

Sorry


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Re: [Marketing] OOo Mac OS X port - VS - NeoOffice.org

[eric b]

Le 3 juil. 06 à 06:56, Chad Smith a écrit :



You fail to see how it is difficult?  Well, good for you.  There  
are many
people (as evidenced by OOo's own site) that have problems with  
it.  Heck,
the "Mini How-To for Installing OpenOffice.org 2.0 X11 Version for  
Mac OS X"

is 17 pages long!  It's a "mini-howto" and it's, I'll repeat that -
SEVENTEEN PAGES LONG.  Yeah, it's no problem to install at all!



And ? Better do nothing ? Our HowTo is very appreciated.

When I put it on my own website, I had more than 2 (yes)  
downloads in 20 days only !  That's the reason why we put it on  
porting/mac page : too much traffic.



Remember : OpenOffice.org installs himself with Drag and Drop. X11 is  
the problem, and we are working to remove the X11 dependancy.


Last, please stop to consider people stupid :  they can read a user's  
guide, like this HowTo.





The link *should* go to this page:
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/x11formacosx.html -  
except that
*that* page is only X11 for Panther - which is several years old  
now.  There
is no where that I've found (and I've looked) to download X11 for  
Tiger.
You *have to* install that off the OS X DVD.  If you lost the DVD  
that came

with your MacBook



Please, don't exagerate : this case is exceptional,  people can  
borrow whan DVD to frineds .. etc : we are civilized.

Or we can provide X11 on demand, I already did.


Now, is it all OpenOffice.org's fault that finding and installing  
X11 is
this complicated and confusing?  No, it's not.  In anything, it's  
Apple's

fault for not putting a download for Tiger's X11 on their website.


Sorry, for one time I must recognize I completely agree.

BTW : just imagine one minute Apple decides to drop Java ...




  However,
it *is* OpenOffice.org's fault for requiring X11.  If two guys in  
their

spare time can figure out how to make OOo work on Mac without X11



I disagree**


IMPORTANT :

If more than 5 ingineers confirm IT IS NOT TRIVIAL to provide a  
native version of OpenOffice.org on Mac OS X, I think we can believe  
them,


and there is certainly a LIE somewhere with NeoOffice, something not  
true, hidding the reality ...



Please stop to confuse people.



**what you wrote is obviously wrong: they use all our work as  
starting point (we fixed more than 200 issues since two years), makes  
things easier.


Remember : they just check 1GB of code, and apply 10 to 15MB (max) of  
bindings (using supplementary 250MB or RAM in runtime)
But respecting Licenses changes of name ..etc, NeoOffice is stricto  
sensu not OpenOffice.org.






of OOo, contribution of code to Windows installers for OOo,  
submitting bug

reports, contributing art and screenshots, etc..)



Let's talk about personnal contributions for OpenOffice.org project...


This week end, I (me, Eric Bachard) have :

- created two cws, and commited code

- prepared QA for a third one

- Fixed 4 issues (maybe more in fact)

- contributed to native port (wiki)

- built m173, m174 (unofficial) for both Panther, Tiger (Intel and  
PowerPC), including upload on ftp for testers


- helped several people on IRC (buildfixes, code, simple help)

- welcomed a new dev in the Mac Team

- prepared a conference about OpenOffice.org project for RMLL ( Nancy  
(France) 4th -11th of july 2006 )



What is your contribution ?





No, I think there are other reasons that OOo
still needs X11, while Neo hasn't for years.



First reason  : X11 version does exist, works and has support

Second reason ;  X11 version is stable, and well integrated in the  
building process : we maintain it


Third reason :  Native port is started in parallel and gives  
results : let's continue !



Again;   neo people use the work they other did, as starting point,  
confusing people who believe they did all the work. This is obviously  
not true.






Some political, Patrick and Ed
don't want their efforts to get swallowed up by the OOo project - a  
little

vain, perhaps - but they've been able to do it on their own, and the
community hasn't come close - so they have some right to be prideful.
Patrick and Ed don't want to submit their code.  That's their  
right.  So,

let's stop blaming them.



And ignore them :

We are a community project, and they refuse to respect our rules.


What else ?






Butwhat about the OOo community.  They have no agenda against Mac,  
right?



This is plain wrong. Please stop it.




wonderland of free code and software.  Except for the Mac people.   
They

don't even get to sit with the grown ups at the big download page.



Maybe soon ?




 They
have to load some weird foreign windowing system to get a slower,  
older

version of OpenOffice.org to even try to run on their computers.



One more time, not constructive, and not credible.

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Re: [Marketing] OOo Mac OS X port - VS - NeoOffice.org

[eric b]

Hi,

Le 3 juil. 06 à 06:18, Chad Smith a écrit :




You can't be serious.  NeoOffice *IS* OpenOffice.org.



NO,  NeoOffice IS NOT OpenOffice.org;

- license modified, not compatible with LGPL (and this is intended)

- other name AFAIK different letters have been used

- they fix bugs without return code

- they ask for money and never reverse anything

Last but not least these people "claim" they are another product.


So, please, stop to confuse people, or yourself.  NeoOffice is not  
OpenOffice.org, and has nothing to do with OpenOffice.org project,  
simply.




  They took the source



A lot of workarounds to make believe the user it works.


code and made it run in Java instead of X11.




We, not me alone, but a Team (Mac port), are working to a REAL**   
NATIVE product : using Carbon API, and we refuse to use Java.


**real means not a binding

Because a better good compromise at first step, to provide a real Mac  
OS X application, is use Carbon API. (for the one discovering the  
word, an API is a collection of functions already existing, and doing  
the life easyer to the coder).


Current code is C++, and Carbon too, and this is the most logical  
choice.



BTW, Java is Sun and is like X11 : not native on Mac OS X.

And Sun refused since ages, to officialy help Mac port.


Please, stop to propagate such  wrong idea.


One more time for the deafs : NeoOffice IS NOT OpenOffice.org




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Re: [Marketing] OOo Mac OS X port - VS - NeoOffice.org

[eric b]

Hi Bernard,


Your propostion is full of sense, a good compromise, and I completely  
agree.


Thank you very much for your constructive and objective opinion :-)


Regards,
Eric Bachard


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Re: [Marketing] Re: Brilliant marketing campaign

[eric b]

Le 30 juin 06 à 22:05, Chad Smith a écrit :

The Community Manager.



I'm not sure you are aware : OpenOffice.org project is managed by a  
Community Council.


What means "Community Manager" ?



Again, this site is not official,  is not an OpenOffice.org project

neither and I don't understand why you have right to use Official
logo for your own site.



Becuase I'm promoting the project.


You are not promoting the project correctly, and to promote a project  
like OpenOffice.org, you have to respect rules.


Everyone must respect rules to make things work. Obviously you not,  
and I disagree.




This is not enough : users are obviously confused with the look and

the logo, and whorse, you are doing propaganda for forks.


It is enough.  As I said, I have permission to put up the site the  
way it

is, including the disclaimer.


Where is it written ?  Could you give me the archives you mean ?


As it is my site, I am free to promote whatever project or projects  
that I

wish.


Change the appearance, and remove the logo first.

After, No problem to believe you.



Means what you wrote about X11 port does not respect our work.


So?  It is my opinion.  I do not like the X11 port, nor do I agree  
that it

is the way to port OpenOffice.org to Mac.



The problem :  you are completely wrong because  *we* (Mac port of  
OpenOffice.org project) *are* working for a native port, means :  
providing a Mac application not using X11.


And the only correct way to port OpenOffice.org to the Mac *IS*  
contribute for OpenOffice.org project. Here, it exactly means: help  
the Mac port project, not a fork.



Don't forget the X11 port is what we found when we started to  
contribute. Because of bad choices from some Sun people, only because  
of that.


But we are working hard to make a true Mac application, and you have  
not the right to write what you wrote about our work : you don't  
respect us.





  It is not a Mac program.  It's an
X11 program.


We are working on it.


  On the other hand, NeoOffice is a Mac native program.


No. this is wrong : Java is a short term workaround to make consumers  
believe it is, but it is not. And the way is long to replace Java.




  It's
much easier to install, doesn't need you to dig out your Install  
disc, and,

as Mac users are accostumed, "It just works".



This is not OpenOffice.org project. Here, we have to defend  
OpenOffice.org project. Do you understand ?



And Mac port of OpenOffice.org project is working on native port.

We just inherit of years without any work in that direction, but we  
progress




This is not acceptable, that's all.




Sorry you feel that way.  I am promoting OpenOffice.org.


No. Just some lines above, you exactly wrote the opposite.



  I took it upon
myself to build the site, buy the domain name, and write the copy.   
If you
don't like the way I am promoting "your work" (which, I thought was  
"our



This is not question of *my* work. I am not important : the project  
is the most important. for the future, for social reasons too.


This is question of respect OpenOffice.org project. Not sure you  
understand...




work" but, maybe I was wrong) then don't visit or promote my site.


You know the solution :

- change the look
- remove the logo


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Re: [Marketing] Re: Brilliant marketing campaign

[eric b]

Le 30 juin 06 à 21:32, Chad Smith a écrit :


It's my site to promote OOo, and I have permission to use that look  
and

logo.


I wonder who authorized you to use Logo and appearance of  
OpenOffice.org project ?


Again, this site is not official,  is not an OpenOffice.org project  
neither and I don't understand why you have right to use Official  
logo for your own site.



  It is clearly marked at the top of the page that is it not  
officially

part of the OOo project.



This is not enough : users are obviously confused with the look and  
the logo, and whorse, you are doing propaganda for forks.


Means what you wrote about X11 port does not respect our work.

This is not acceptable, that's all.


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Re: [Marketing] Re: Brilliant marketing campaign

[eric b]

Hi,

Is this site : 

part of OpenOffice.org project ? Or a fake ? And why are  the  
OpenOffice.org logo and look used ?





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Re: [Marketing] another OpenOffice ads article on Digg

[eric b]

Hi,


One more time NeoOffice *is not OpenOffice.org*

Thank's in advance to remove it from your paper


Eric Bachard


Le 27 juin 06 à 02:23, Benjamin Horst a écrit :


If you'd like to help by digging another article, please go ahead!

http://digg.com/software/OpenOffice.org_Newspaper_Ad_Mockup_Released

Thanks,
Ben


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Re: [Marketing] Taking an ad in NYC's free Metro newspaper

[eric b]

Hi,



As I said their reasons for not contributing to the Mac OSX port of  
2.0 is
because of the direction you are going and not believing it is the  
right

direction.



Let's  start with information :

http://trinity.neooffice.org/modules.php? 
name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2038



Now, some comments ...

First, please not the word "synergy": it was really the main  
objective of my request.


What  I proposed (in private , before to see this publically  
publied)  Patrick Luby and Ed Peterlin was to work *together*.
Have two projects doing the same thing is does not make sense, and is  
always the whorse thing.


And I strongly believe, together, a great work could be done, only  
engineering oriented.




  By posting this item I am refuting th is statement.



Your post is very informative for me.



"refuses to contribute for
OopenOffice.org project, and has even destructive behaviour against
our work."



Yes, not directly P. Luby or Ed Peterlin, but what I describe are  
facts, only facts :  having two projects doing the same things is a  
not really a good thing for one of them.


The potential of OpenOffice.org port on Mac OS X is enormous  
(really !), and will become a major project inside OpenOffice.org.



Another advantage is : the portability will be complete !  Excepted  
Linux kernel, I don't know any other software working on so much OS/ 
architectures !!


That's probably  the reason why all knocks are used ...




  But I feel if you
are going to rant on them all the facts should be in.



This is plain wrong.  No problem for me : they do what they want, and  
OpenOffice.org project continues, ignoring them.


I just refuse to see OpenOffice.org project help a project (whatever  
it could be), as soon as this project can be considered as derivative  
product,

or let people believe this project is OpenOffice.org project part.

Nothing else.


Last but not least, I'm just defending a community project :  
OpenOffice.org.




Final dot for me.


Regards,
Eric bachard


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Re: [Marketing] Taking an ad in NYC's free Metro newspaper

[eric b]

Hi,

Le 11 juin 06 à 21:50, Adam Moore a écrit :



Now now Eric don't bend the truth.  They have contributed code here:

http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=15387



You are talking about OpenOffice.org 1.1.x .

I'm talking about 2.0 , and we (Tino Rachui, me, and some others)   
have tried a lot of times to integrate this code, but this is simply  
not possible in 2.0.x



Have you something more recent ?




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Re: [Marketing] Taking an ad in NYC's free Metro newspaper

[eric b]

Hi,

Le 11 juin 06 à 06:48, Alexandro Colorado a écrit :

On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 01:40:54 -0500, eric b <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:



Maybe you should talk to them since the whole project is just a  
couple of guys and they seem very hardworking since they already  
invest a great deal into this product.


Please stop to propagate "NeoOffice is not just a couple of guys" :  
this is completely wrong.



In fact you are talking about : two people + (approximatively) 5  
people  doing a lot of noise  ( better word is "pollution"), and are  
experimented webmasters  + some hypocrite (and maybe with important  
roles)  people helping them "unofficially" ( Neo project received  
25000$ as donation last year) and providing them communication  
resources ...etc.



Please, don't encourage the perfect hypocrisis existing around this  
project :  they are more than two, and are perfectly organized.



Return to the your two people :  these one refused to work with us,  
they have choosen - intentionnaly - a non compatible license , they  
don't help us to fix OpenOffice.org bugs.


What do you want more ? => there is NO interest for OpenOffice.org  
project to consider them


=> this is a plain derivative product. That's all.



Now, what is OUR objective ?  We are OpenOffice.org project, and here  
is OpenOffice.org Marketing project, originally working for  
OpenOffice.org project, right ?


Remember, OpenOffice.org is a community project, with rules.


And, reading all this thread, a positive behaviour would better be  
_encourage_FIRST_our_work_ , find a way to provide us some founds,  
some developers ..etc  ?


No ?

And,  why help an external and unfriendly project ?   Or, maybe  
consider the begining ...Why Sun didn't help us providing resources ?



Since end 2005, I'm searching funds, hardware, developers (all are  
volunteers, and receive no money).


The way is ( as I always said ) very long, but and we have some  
results and I provided a roadmap.





Even Simon Phipps speak warmly about the project:



Ah yes,  ... like Simon Phipps blogued for our work for the MacIntel  
port  (FYI, today, Mac Intel version of OpenOffice.org builds out of  
the box, and is close to stable).


...the result is  :  now, NeoOffice make the Mac users believe they  
did the work, and ask for money for MacIntel port.


While this project never :

- fixed any Intel bug (or if ever, the code is lost for  
OpenOffice.org project)
- provided any help for the bridge : all serious people perfectly  
know : without bridge, no port


This is one supplementary proof this is another project, and we  
simply have to ignore them, excepted if they *really* want to share  
something with us (not only the bandwidth ... )




Honestly, I'd be very happy to stop to fix OpenOffice.org bugs, and  
only concentrate me on native port, and draw "Blue Buttons", but this  
is not possible,
because without that nothing would work, and the reality is : if a  
Mac OS X version does exist, this is a community work, not a two  
people project.




Again : after "Get Legal'" ... "Get correct ..."


Final dot for me, I prefer return fixing bugs and write code.


Regards,
Eric Bachard




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Re: [Marketing] Taking an ad in NYC's free Metro newspaper

[eric b]

Hi,


Again  I ask you to respect our work, and stop the provocation :   
NeoOffice is something else, refuses to contribute for  
OopenOffice.org project, and has even destructive behaviour against  
our work.


=> Derivative product.


Our work means official Mac OS X port of OpenOffice.org project. We  
still use X11, and we are proud of our work : we received no help,  
and all are volunteers.




And if you are not aware, *we are working for native version* :

http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb

http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Porting_- 
_Work_Areas/Todo%27s


http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/ 
Fonts_starting_point_and_documentation




For your information,  NeoOffice :


- is a FORK and has nothing to do with us : they simple refused to  
work with us, and even insulted me when I asked : DERIVATIVE PRODUCT


- NeoOffice *never helps*, since more than a year, and never fixed an  
OpenOffice.org bug since more...


- uses a non compatible licence, and this is fully intended !!

The whorse :  since some times, NeoOffice asks for money for Mac  
Intel version, without have have made anything to help us for the  
port (I mean adapt for Intel architecture).





*So giving a link for such unfair project is not respect  
OpenOffice.org project, and I guess other people asked you to proceed  
you



This is a SHAME, and for marketing people, after " Get Legal..."  I  
would propose  " Get correct ? ".



Eric Bachard



P.S. :  are there courageous people inside OpenOffice.org project  ?




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Re: [Marketing] Taking an ad in NYC's free Metro newspaper

[eric b]

Hi,

Le 9 juin 06 à 16:20, Benjamin Horst a écrit :


I'll probably also want to put a link to NeoOffice.org for Mac  
users. (There are many in NYC.)



Please, don't be confused : there is an official OpenOffIce.org port  
on Mac OS X, providing  - since 2.0 - OpenOffice.org for Mac OS X,  
for both PowerPC and Intel architectures.


And it would be kind of you, to put the real Mac OS X port of  
OpenOffice.org project in first line, instead of derivative products.




Thank's in advance.


Regards,
Eric Bachard

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Re: [Marketing] new co-lead

[eric b]

Hi,

Congratulations, and welcome to Cristian !


Best regards,
Eric Bachard



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Re: [Marketing] Need price information

[Eric Renaud]

Alin Kwok wrote:
> Hi, I am a Chinese who is a corporation IT guy.  I want to know the price 
> information of your company product Open Office for corporation users.  We 
> have above 3000 employee.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Alin
>
>   
Alin,

OpenOffice.org is free to download, use, and redistribute.

You will want to review the terms of the license (or have your
legal department do so), in order to comply correctly as far
as any redistribution or contributions to the community.

Support services, both free and for a fee, for OpenOffice.org
can be found here:

http://support.openoffice.org/index.html

Regards,

Eric

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Re: [Marketing] URGENT: MP Wiki pages naming and basic rules

[Eric Renaud]

Chad Smith wrote:

On 2/9/06, Daniel Carrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  

How about we call it "Drafts"? More people will get that.




+ 1 for Drafts or Testing or something other than Incubator
  


Staging?

--
- Chad Smith
http://www.gimpshop.net/
Because everyone loves free software!

  


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Re: [Marketing] OO.o advertising on Redmond buses

[Eric Renaud]

Chad Smith wrote:

Where are the pics?

For virus safety, all attachments are removed.  Do you have a website you
can post them to, or put them up in an IZ issue?
  

Please find the images here -

http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=61801

On 2/8/06, Eric Renaud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

Hi all,

Some cool pics of an OO.o advertising campaign on buses in Redmond.

Feel free to reuse these images.

Regards,

Eric





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--
- Chad Smith
http://www.gimpshop.net/
Because everyone loves free software!

  


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[Marketing] OO.o advertising on Redmond buses

[Eric Renaud]

Hi all,

Some cool pics of an OO.o advertising campaign on buses in Redmond.

Feel free to reuse these images.

Regards,

Eric



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Re: [Marketing] A Christmas Present for OOo

[Eric Renaud]

Adam Moore wrote:


I'll say that this may have not been the best post, but can you point
us to where we take our grievances? Maybe it will help us keep posts
like this off of this list and directed to the right place.
 


Grievances should be directed to the Community Council.

Personal attacks should be directed only at the intended victim.  Not 
doing so creates collateral that is messy and

really turns people off to constructive forums.


On 12/21/05, Louis Suarez-Potts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 


Jonathan,


On 2005-12-21, at 13:29 , Jonathon Blake wrote:

   


All:

I'
This is a public request that the following individuals give the OOo
project a Christmas present:
 


It's nice to be thought of at this time of year with such warmth, but
the rule of a project like OOo is that we do not use the lists for
our own personal grievances.  As Steve Shelton pointed out on
Marketing, ENOUGH.  We have had enough of personal attacks,
misrepresentations, tantrums, distractions, and other generally
unpleasant behaviour on that list.  And enough is enough.

Best,

Louis

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--

Adam Moore
Founding Member
http://www.opendocumentfellowship.org

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Re: [Marketing] Templates

[Eric Peterson]

Is there a reason that the templates aren't included when you download the
program? I think it is something end users would look for? Most people I
talk with use the wizards and templates in Word to create most new
documents.

Eric Peterson

On 11/10/05, G. Roderick Singleton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2005-11-10 at 04:39 -0500, Rodney wrote:
> > When you open MS Office, you are presented with a wide range of
> templates and wizzards that make the building of useful pages easy. In OO we
> could use a resume page in writer, financial calculations in calc,
> presentation designs in impress and asset control in Base. The more prebuilt
> templates the easier to use this is and this will increase your install base
> by work of mouth advertising.
> >
> > Rodney Wise
>
> Wizards are there but templates and such can be found at
> http://documentation.openoffice.org/
> --
> PLEASE KEEP MESSAGES ON THE LIST.
> OpenOffice.org Documentation Co-Lead
> http://documentation.openoffice.org/
>
>
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>

Re: [Marketing] Install sizes?

[Eric Peterson]

My OOo2 is 202mb. I also have a PC with MS Office 2000 Pro that is only
162mb. I believe the MS Office 2003 is much larger in size, but installs all
the installation file which are needed when an update is performed. I think
the installation size is important to alot of people, even though there is
plenty of hard drive space in most PCs.

Eric Peterson

On 11/1/05, Lars D. Noodén <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> What are the install sizes for OOo 2 and the various competitors to OOo2 ?
> If OOo compares favorably to common MSO versions, then this is a point we
> can
> highlight.
>
> -Lars
> Lars Nooden ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog ...
> ... until you start barking.
>
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>

Re: [Marketing] Demand OpenDocument! Sign the petition.

[Eric Renaud]

Chad Smith wrote:


On 10/21/05, Charles-H.Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 


Your discussion, although interesting from a theoretical point of view,
is hence more suited to lists such as social@openoffice.org .
What's more, your constant chatter is hindering the work of the
Marketing Project.
   





I completely disagree. From the mailing lists
page<http://www.openoffice.org/mail_list.html>
:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
This list is intended for discussions on OpenOffice.org and Open Source.

I believe that any discussion about the OpenDocument Format (since it is a
part - some have claimed, the most important part - about OOo / and since it
is obviously related to the Open Source movement) absolutely belongs on the
Discuss list.
 

Clearly Open Source and Open Standards find much appeal in the other, 
but Open Standards are not so
directly linked to Open Source.  Standards bodies and their noble 
efforts existed long before FOSS.
Let's not confuse the 'Open' part:  M$ has every bit the same 
opportunity to follow 'Open' Standards

w/o changing their license scheme.

Anyway, we are not talking about Marketing anymore and should move the 
discussion to a more appropriate spot. 

If the topic/thread has morphed to something other than promoting a 
petition (the subject line), okay.  Otherwise,

from that, it would seem to be in the social category.

Eric



-Chad Smith

 




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Re: [Marketing] MassGov declares for OpenDocument

[Eric Renaud]

And they keep trickling in - http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=1800

Sam Hiser wrote:


Postmortem:


Microsoft's damage-control messaging is that this as a cost risk and a
political situation:

"I think it would be pretty risky for the state of Massachusetts to go
in a direction like this without a clear look at the costs first,” said
Alan Yates, general manager of the Office division at Microsoft.

He also suggested that the proposal, which was produced by the state’s
chief information officer, was the product of “a very political
situation,” though he declined to elaborate. Massachusetts was the only
state to hold out against a settlement of the US anti-trust case against
Microsoft.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/80033a76-1a71-11da-b7f5-0e2511c8.html


Bob Sutor at IBM:

"To be clear, there is nothing preventing Microsoft and others from
implementing and supporting the OASIS OpenDocument format. This should
not be looked as "against" anyone but rather "for" real open standards
created in a community way in standards organizations."

http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/dw_blog_comments.jspa?blog=384&entry=94058&ca=drs-bl




News Coverage:

LXer Open Source Newswire
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/42442/index.html

Financial Times
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/e8fc5cce-1a85-11da-b7f5-0e2511c8.html
by Richard Waters

Forbes.com
http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2005/08/31/afx2200406.html

The Boston Globe
pending

The New York Times
pending

ZDNet UK
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/windows/0,39020396,39215912,00.htm
Tom Espiner

ZDNet
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-5845451.html
by Martin Lamonica

All Headline News
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/2251173842
by Hector Duarte, Jr.

LinuxInsider:
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/BPtKifgJh2Y3bJ/Massachusetts-to-Ditch-Microsoft-Software.xhtml
AFX newswire (based on FT)


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Re: [Marketing] Re: [marketing-events] Desktop linux summit

[Eric Renaud]

This strident kind of exchange is one of the reasons OOo has 
difficulty. OOo is not sexy to the outside world and it's really not 
fun to have LS_P's pedantic hot breath on one's neck on the inside.

-Sam



Can we (any of us) not get personal?   And while I don't want to promote 
bickering - if you have to somehow vent to someone, send it directly to 
that person, not

the list.  No one appreciates being insulted in public . . .

Eric



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[Marketing] Kudos and thanks to Matthew Bennett and Adam Moore

[Eric Renaud]

Hello,

I wanted to express my thanks to Matthew and Adam for promoting 
OpenOffice.org at OSCon this previous week.


They were both kind enough to spare personal time and give presentions 
relaying their experience with, and knowledge
of, OpenOffice.org. 

As a Sun employee I'm grateful these community members were confident in 
representing OO.o in a booth with a Sun label.
And as an OO.o member and user, I was thrilled to see the impressive 
knowledge base of OO.o OUTSIDE of Sun and to

make acquaintances (in person!) with other folks in the community.

Thanks again, gentlemen!

Eric

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Re: [Marketing] Database of companies who have made the switch to OO

[Eric Renaud]

Mike Gifford wrote:


Hello,

I just got an enquiry about the adoption of OpenOffice by companies 
for day-to-day

operations. Is there a database with this information somewhere?

Last time I looked I wasn't able to find one.  It would be great to 
have a list of companies or organizations which have made the switch 
so that others can feel more comfortable.


I'm hoping that at least SUN would be on that list..  IBM went for 
firefox, right?  I've got a fairly large Canadian organization looking 
into this now, and I'd like to be able to pull them away from the dark 
side.


IBM did 'go' for Firefox, but with a limited internal release.  They are 
still relying heavily on Lotus and many other internal apps that are tied
to IE.  As with most conversions of the type, the migration is lengthy 
and difficult.


Sun uses StarOffice - as part of the Java Desktop System, which includes 
Mozilla, Evolution, Gnome, Linux, and other Open Source software.  We

use JDS internally as the only supported desktop.

OpenOffice.org, the product, began as StarOffice.  The differences are 
noted here - http://www.openoffice.org/FAQs/mostfaqs.html#7 

We then released the code under dual Open Source license scheme (LGPL & 
SISSL) and initiated the OpenOffice.org community with much non-Sun 
assistance (a community effort).





Any other suggestions?  Any information you have on companies that 
have switched and the

cost-savings they experienced by doing so would be great.

I'd like to feature this on http://www.openoffice.ca

Mike
--
Mike Gifford, OpenConcept Consulting
Free Software for Social Change -> http://www.openconcept.ca
Latest launch Canadian Labour Congress / Congrès du travail du Canada
http://canadianlabour.ca / http://congresdutravail.ca

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Re: [Marketing] OOo and Java

[Eric Renaud]

Daniel Carrera wrote:
If the answer is "yes", then may I suggest the following edit:
FAQ Question

May I add/bundle the Sun Java Runtime Environment to/with a
(commercial) distribution of OpenOffice.org?
Answer
==
Yes.
 

+1 - I like this very clear approach. 

Blah blah blah blah...

But I admit I found the answer somewhat confusing.
Cheers,
Daniel.
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 03:19:39PM -0700, Eric Renaud wrote:
 

With an unbiased (really!) view, I see the answer clearly - yes -may be 
and can be distributed freely w. OO.o as long
as compliance with license is maintained and the license is included in 
the bundle,blah, blah, blah.

But the link to the Java licensing info is missing.
Daniel Carrera wrote:
   

Note: the following is intended as constructive feedback:
Uhhmm... was that a "yes" or a "no"?
Sorry to say this, but this text seems to dance around the question. It 
looks like all it said was "read the license". Maybe it was just me, but I 
didn't think I got an answer.

Also, this bit:

 

For more information on Java's licensing, please visit
Information on OpenOffice.org's license can be found at
http://www.openoffice.org/license.html.
 

   

That page doesn't seem to have any information about Java's license. :-(
Lastly, when you have a bracket inside a bracket, that's a sign that the 
text is a bit complicated. Don't take me wrong, I enjoy using nested 
brackets myself. But the Java thing is a sensitive issue and we probably 
want to go for clarity.

Thank you for doing this work Erwin.
 


 


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Re: [Marketing] OOo and Java

[Eric Renaud]

With an unbiased (really!) view, I see the answer clearly - yes -may be 
and can be distributed freely w. OO.o as long
as compliance with license is maintained and the license is included in 
the bundle,blah, blah, blah.

But the link to the Java licensing info is missing.
Daniel Carrera wrote:
Note: the following is intended as constructive feedback:
Uhhmm... was that a "yes" or a "no"?
Sorry to say this, but this text seems to dance around the question. It 
looks like all it said was "read the license". Maybe it was just me, but I 
didn't think I got an answer.

Also, this bit:
 

For more information on Java's licensing, please visit
Information on OpenOffice.org's license can be found at
http://www.openoffice.org/license.html.
   

That page doesn't seem to have any information about Java's license. :-(
Lastly, when you have a bracket inside a bracket, that's a sign that the 
text is a bit complicated. Don't take me wrong, I enjoy using nested 
brackets myself. But the Java thing is a sensitive issue and we probably 
want to go for clarity.

Thank you for doing this work Erwin.
Cheers,
Daniel.
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 11:44:34PM +0200, Erwin Tenhumberg wrote:
 

O.k., here is the statement! Where should we put it?
FAQ Question

May I add/bundle the Sun Java Runtime Environment to/with a
(commercial) distribution of OpenOffice.org?
Answer
==
OpenOffice.org 2.0 uses Java technology to increase its functionality:
Java technology is used for wizards and for the database component;
its use here does not affect the licensing of either OpenOffice.org
or the Java software.
The Java Runtime Environment (JRE) may be freely (at no charge)
downloaded from http://www.java.com and can be freely (at no charge)
distributed with OpenOffice.org via CD or other media as provided in the
JRE license (among other things, Sun shall deem the OpenOffice.org
software to provide significant Java technology based value add to the
JRE as required by the JRE license, and note that the JRE needs to be
bundled unmodified with the OpenOffice.org software (including the
license contained in the installer)).
For more information on Java's licensing, please visit
Information on OpenOffice.org's license can be found at
http://www.openoffice.org/license.html.
Thanks,
Erwin

Erwin Tenhumberg wrote:
   

BTW, I'm working on this. Very soon there should be public statement
on the OpenOffice.org site.
Cheers,
Erwin

Robert Vojta wrote:
 

Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
   

I believe we got the OK from Sun to distribute the JRE along with
OpenOffice.org because the license says something like you can
distribute the JRE along with another application that requires it.
 

License and README file says this:
The Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment is intended for software 
developers   and vendors to redistribute with their applications.

I think yes too, but I read somewhere that 'major' part of your
application should require Java, not a few 'smaller' parts.
From my point of view - dependency on Java is growing, we should ask
Sun for this and place the answer on the www.openoffice.org site, so
anyone, can get the answer quickly.
   

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Re: [Marketing] Distribution

[Eric Renaud]

Hi Pete,
I recommend you review the terms of the license yourself to ensure 
compliance, but in a nutshell:  Yes.

BTW - you'll notice that they, the name and logo, are not actually 
registered trademarks (note no 'TM').

And if you do distribute, it would be neighborly if you would donate a 
portion of the proceeds back to OO.o
(problematic, but it can be done), though not a requirement.

Regards,
Eric
Pete Damiano wrote:
I was perusing eBay and noticed a seller auctioning Open Office 1.1 for $
4.95 (minimum opening bid) + Shipping & Handling of $ 6.85 (anywhere in US)
! That means he gets $ 11.80 for each CD copy he produces and his profit
must be about $9.00+ 


I asked (emailed) him about this since I know Open Office 1.1 is available
as a free download and he indicated he was a "Community Distributor". 


How can I become a "Community Distributor" and make $ 9.00+ on each copy I
distribute.

Buy the way - He is using the Open Office Box picture and trademark .  .  .

Is all this OK ??

peteD
 


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Re: [Marketing] What does the marketing project *need* to do?

[Eric Renaud]

Jonathon Blake wrote:
Eric wrote:
 

Having worked many years for a charity, I can state that these feelings are common to organizations 
   

Side note:  If a person can successfully run a small team of
volunteers --- they will be uber-successful at running a large team of
employees.
The converse is not true. 
 

The prime effective operating size of a team is 5-8 members; and that's not 
anecdotal.
Beyond that size becomes ungainly.  Imagaine the number of permutations in 
communication channels alone.  And once the number of teams within teams grows 
(typical structuring of large group
entities, be they business-oriented or not, and done so to mitigate the chaos) 
the complexity involved grows inherently - and almost exponentially.
I submit that the converse is true.  Anyone that can run a large team 
(employees or volunteers)
would be successful running a small group.  The skill level to realize the 
former far exceeds
that of the latter.
(And though this bit of the conversation is interesting) I see a rathole ahead. 
;)

Being able to run a large team of employees successfully does not mean
that you can run a small team of volunteers successfully.
 

rely on volunteers. ...structure in place to recognize ... people for the work they do it simply won't happen.   
   

Remember Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.  

For profit organizations can get by, by addressing the bottom two
levels.  Volunteer only organizations have to address the top level,
or maybe top two levels, if they want to thrive, and be around in five
years.
 

That is clear.
The OO.o community is, obviously, not a business.  
   

II am going to disagree here slightly.  It is a business, but not one
which is orientated towards money. It is orientated towards a common
goal.
 

I buy that, so to speak.
Kind regards,
Eric
xan
jonathon
 


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Re: [Marketing] What does the marketing project *need* to do?

[Eric Renaud]

Daniel Carrera wrote:
Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
 

sorry, I may have missed something that is, obviously, very important: 
are you saying that some people or that the MP leads don't create a 
positive atmosphere, or, worse, that they don't make you feel appreciated?
   

I don't want to assign blame, that is not conductive to solving things.
Having said that, yes, I am confident that there is a very strong negative 
atmosphere. I hasten to add, the problem is not unique to MP, and just 
blaming the MP leads for this is not fair, or conductive to a solution.

So, with that clear, yes. Ideas are shot down, you do lots of work and it 
goes ignored. I've heard many people say they feel totally ignored by the 
project. I see it all the time, every day. Frustration is widely spread.

 

Having worked many years for a charity, I can state that these feelings 
are common to organizations that
rely on volunteers.  This community is certainly of a different nature, 
but unless there is a structure
put in place to recognize, to reward, and/or to somehow compensate 
people for the work they
do it simply won't happen.   Assuming not everyone is in this 
altruistically, it seems that some means
to address the issue of recognition for ideas, proposals, and 
accomplishments need be brought about.

The OO.o community is, obviously, not a business.  So monetary 
rewards/compensation does not come
into play per se, especially in the marketing project.  But, it (OO.o) 
can and does lead to business
opportunity.   For those volunteering to write code and using the code 
base for add-ons, extensions, native
language implementations, etcetera, compensation can come from outside 
sources.  And even
more so, reward comes for many hackers in the form of recognition within 
one's field and by one's peers.
But again, that references is to coders, not marketers.  It's to geek 
culture that we, as marketers, have attached
ourselves. And moreover, it is open source software development - and 
that is based on
meritocracy. 

So how do marketers recognize and accept new ideas?  How do they 
recognize accomplishment?
Or better yet:  How can we as a project do these things?  I think 
communication is the most important
piece.  But mailing lists are useful, but only to a point.  People often 
lose sight of their intent and can
forget civility within the confines of e-mail.  Once the door to 
disrespect is opened, it's a herculean
effort to close it.  And in no way does it contribute to the betterment 
of the community.  1 on 1 and
conference calls are the next best to live and in person.  How often do 
these happen in this project?
(Sorry, I'm ignorant to how the communication layers function within the 
marketing project).  Does
the issue of cost preclude these?  What other forums are used?

Anyway, the point I'm trying to get to is this:  Given the duration and 
number of issues and sentiments raised in
this last email thread, we should re-think the structure and operation 
of the marketing project.  Even something
as simple as creating a space to post and address ideas, maintain the 
legacy of those ideas would surely help.

I'm interested in others' thoughts on how we can make the project more 
productive and inclusive.

Regards,
Eric



But let's not argue about whose fault it is, please.
Let's talk about how to solve it. What do you say?
Cheers,
 


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Re: [Marketing] Banners for booths at conferences

[Eric Renaud]

Adam Moore wrote:
Which is likely to be what the printers will prefer - original vector files.
We (Sun's internal OO.o marketing) did have a banner once.  I *believe*
Flip Russell may possess it now, but don't quote me on that.
Either way, the one we have is beat down and tired.  So, I'm ccing
my boss, Marla Parker, to ask if we can allocate some budget towards
getting several banners.
I've had the idea of creating some 'marketing kits' for some time now, so
perhaps this is the time to try to bring that to fruition.  The thought
was to
create these kits of a banner, standard marketing collateral (pamphlets,
url cards, what-have-you), and cds and then make them available on-demand
to the community for events such as this past weeks LDS.
Of course this ends up being about money, so I can only promise that
I will try my best to find funding.
   


Excelent.  I am excited to see what you would be able to come up with.
Even if we gain a couple more donation partners maybe we can make
this a fund raising project.  I.E. putting a couple of sponsors on our
banners.  Something like $100 or something a sponsor would get them a
sponsor logo on our banner.  The banner I was looking at was 6' wide
by 3' tall and we could use the first 2' for our logo space and the
last 1' for sponsor logo space.
 

I REALLY like that idea.  Any ideas on sponsors? 

Eric
Adam
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Re: [Marketing] Banners for booths at conferences

[Eric Renaud]

Daniel Carrera wrote:
Eric Renaud wrote:
 

Either way, the one we have is beat down and tired.  So, I'm ccing
my boss, Marla Parker, to ask if we can allocate some budget towards
getting several banners. 
   

Of course, the ideal situation would be for OOo to be able to raise funds 
of its own and spend them on its own banners. Don't take me wrong, I'm 
very grateful to Sun. But I think that everyone would be happier if OOo 
was less depedent on Sun for everything. Banners are such a tiny thing 
that it's embarassing to realize that the community can't make their own. 
We should be able to get our own banners, and much more. We should be able 
to bring OOo t-shirts to our booths, print nicely-bound books, and provide 
business cards to volunteers.

 

I don't mean to be contentious, but if I can get Sun to fund this, why 
would you look a gift
horse in the mouth? 

The OO.o community relies on donations.  A donation from Sun
is the same from any other source.  Beware the fear of the corporate 
sponsor::  It's the hobgoblin
of many an Open Source project . . .

While I was at DLS I must have been asked for my business card a dozen 
times. For a project like OOo, it's embarassing to say we don't have 
business cards. I should be able to hand out a business card with the OOo 
logo and the text "Daniel Carrera, Community Representative". Ryan should 
have had cards that said "Ryan Singer, Marketing Contact". Jason should 
have had cards that said "Jason Faulkner, OpenOffice.org Volunteer".
 

Right. We should have generic cards printed up and included in the 
kits.  Excellent idea.

Eric
Sigh...
 


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Re: [Marketing] Banners for booths at conferences

[Eric Renaud]

My intent is for these to be OpenOffice.org banners, entirely. 

My only want there would be to have clear definition on ownership and 
responsibility.
That would entail at least one person maintaining the 'armoury'.  Be 
that Sun employee
or OO.o volunteer matters not to me.  The owner would still be the OO.o 
community.

Whoever checks out the kit will be responsible, to OpenOffice.org, for
returning the bits that remain (likely just the sign) to the keeper of 
the wares.
Does that make sense?

I'm thinking we could create and issue in the www project, perhaps, to 
keep track?

Eric
Jason Faulkner wrote:
Either way, the one we have is beat down and tired.  So, I'm ccing
my boss, Marla Parker, to ask if we can allocate some budget towards
getting several banners.
I've had the idea of creating some 'marketing kits' for some time now, so
perhaps this is the time to try to bring that to fruition.  The thought
was to
create these kits of a banner, standard marketing collateral (pamphlets,
url cards, what-have-you), and cds and then make them available on-demand
to the community for events such as this past weeks LDS.
   

I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, but would these be
*Sun* OpenOffice.org banners, or OpenOffice.org banners? I think it's
important to have some independence.
 


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Re: [Marketing] Banners for booths at conferences

[Eric Renaud]

Jean Hollis Weber wrote:
This one:
http://marketing.openoffice.org/graphics/logos/ooo-main-logo-2col.png
It's also available in .eps format.
Which is likely to be what the printers will prefer - original vector files.
We (Sun's internal OO.o marketing) did have a banner once.  I *believe*
Flip Russell may possess it now, but don't quote me on that. 

Either way, the one we have is beat down and tired.  So, I'm ccing
my boss, Marla Parker, to ask if we can allocate some budget towards
getting several banners. 

I've had the idea of creating some 'marketing kits' for some time now, so
perhaps this is the time to try to bring that to fruition.  The thought 
was to
create these kits of a banner, standard marketing collateral (pamphlets,
url cards, what-have-you), and cds and then make them available on-demand
to the community for events such as this past weeks LDS. 

Of course this ends up being about money, so I can only promise that
I will try my best to find funding.
Eric
Cheers, Jean
At 04:35 PM 14/02/2005 -0800, you wrote:
I just stopped by a place in town here and it was difficult for them
to give me pricing because I didn't have the logo to show them.  Is
there a link or something that would show the kind of logo we would
use?
Adam
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:25:57 -0800, Jean Hollis Weber
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here's a website in the USA that prints banners from your own artwork.
> http://www.victorystore.com/banner_pricing.htm
>
> 2ft x 6ft vinyl banners (the size I think would be most suitable for a
> conference booth) are $65 for one, $55 each for 2-5, $50 each for 
6-10,
> etc. For an additional color, add 15%. (The current logo is black 
plus one
> color.) I suppose there's a shipping charge, and sales tax, but 
we're not
> talking huge sums of money. I would have ordered one in time for 
RegiCon if
> I'd realized there wouldn't be anything else. Whoever is going to 
the next
> conference should look into getting something like this.
>
> No doubt there are other websites offering much the same thing. I've
> already found one in Australia, so if we need something for the 
MiniConf in
> Canberra, and no one has made other arrangements, we can get one from
> there. http://www.viscom.com.au/webcontent15.htm
>
> Jean
>
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Re: [Marketing] Official OOo books

[Eric Renaud]

Jacqueline McNally wrote:
Eric Renaud wrote:
Apologies for being lazy and not retracing back on the thread . . .
Did anyone mention a place in which known OO.o books are currently 
listed, if one such exists?

They are currently here:
http://support.openoffice.org/index.html

thanks for the reference.
But we are in the process of creating a new page within the 
Documentation Project to link from the Support and other pages.

There was a draft of a new page, but I cannot find it now. But we have 
discussed including more than just a link, which is all that there is 
currently.

What might that include?
We also wish to distinguish between published books and those created 
by community members under free licenses.

For sure.
Thanks,
Eric
Regards
Jacqueline
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Re: [Marketing] Official OOo books

[Eric Renaud]

Apologies for being lazy and not retracing back on the thread . . .
Did anyone mention a place in which known OO.o books are currently 
listed, if one such exists?

Eric
Jacqueline McNally wrote:
Daniel Carrera wrote:
On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 08:12:09AM +0800, Jacqueline McNally wrote:

It is the author's choice whether they wish to publish using a free 
license.

I didn't say anything contrary to that. I just said that for a book 
to be the "official OOo book", an open license is a requirement. OOo 
is an open source project. I'm delighted to see many propietary books 
written about it. They just aren't "the official" book.

Putting licenses aside, I don't think it is a good idea to stamp any 
one publication as "official". Reviews are better.

There are many books published that are authored by members of the 
OpenOffice.org community that we could and should recommend.

I highly recommend "OpenOffice.org Writer". A non-free book written 
by Jean Weber. It's excellent. So much so I wrote a complete book 
review and had it published at Newsforge so everyone would hear about 
it.

Great, once we have the new books page organised, we can link and 
include the review.

I hesitate to tag "official" to any of them

And that's what I was getting at. For an OOo book to be "the 
official" book, it'd have to meet some unique criteria.

And I think it is better not to have an 'official", but display books 
that we (a number of people) are happy to recommend. The opportunity 
to publish reviews adds to this, just as we publish both good and bad 
reviews of OpenOffice.org.

Regards
Jacqueline
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Re: [Marketing] Intro to OOo marketing

[Eric Renaud]

Ryan Singer wrote:
Eric,
Are you coming to Regicon too?-Ryan
 

No, I wish.  However, Phillip Russell, who I work with in the Open 
Source Programs Office, will
be in attendence.

Eric
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 15:49:39 -0800, Eric Renaud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 

Bob,
Yes, that is part a role I'm taking on - though that as a Sun
employee and not a volunteer.  (Tough to separate, so we'll so how
it all goes. ;)
We know it's a two-way street. Sun is part of the community,
the same as each of us.
Whenever you have questions, just let me know.  I'll answer as best
I can and get answers for those I can't.  Let's keep the dialogue going,
even (and especially) if it's just to comment on a job well done.  (I'm
really happy to see all the volunteers heading to Regicon!).
Regards,
Eric
Bob Kerr wrote:
   

Welcome Eric,
We always appreciate help,
I would especially appreciate someone who works for
Sun letting us know a little bit more what the general
thoughts and feelings are in the Sun Camp as I
sometimes feel a little disconnected from them. Not
necessarily right now but as things progress.
Cheers
Bob
 

Hello,
I'm Eric Renaud, a Sun employee working in the Open
Source Programs Office
for about 4 years now.  That has given me the
opportunity to be involved
with
OO.o on many levels;  and now I want to help however
I can in the marketing
plan you've built up for OO.o.
I tout OO.o whenever possible to industry folk, with
some pleasant
results.  Even
day to day conversations bring about the opportunity
to present OO.o to
'newbies'.
I've plenty of stories, as I'm sure do you . . .
As with you all, I'll be donating my own time.
Simply put, I find doing
so worthwhile.
Regards,
Eric

   



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--
Eric Renaud
Sun Open Source Program Office
Cell - 408.823.8661
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Re: [Marketing] Intro to OOo marketing

[Eric Renaud]

Bob,

Yes, that is part a role I'm taking on - though that as a Sun
employee and not a volunteer.  (Tough to separate, so we'll so how
it all goes. ;)

We know it's a two-way street. Sun is part of the community,
the same as each of us.

Whenever you have questions, just let me know.  I'll answer as best
I can and get answers for those I can't.  Let's keep the dialogue going,
even (and especially) if it's just to comment on a job well done.  (I'm
really happy to see all the volunteers heading to Regicon!).

Regards,

Eric

Bob Kerr wrote:
> Welcome Eric,
> 
> We always appreciate help,
> 
> I would especially appreciate someone who works for
> Sun letting us know a little bit more what the general
> thoughts and feelings are in the Sun Camp as I
> sometimes feel a little disconnected from them. Not
> necessarily right now but as things progress.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
>>Hello,
>>
>>I'm Eric Renaud, a Sun employee working in the Open
>>Source Programs Office
>>for about 4 years now.  That has given me the
>>opportunity to be involved 
>>with
>>OO.o on many levels;  and now I want to help however
>>I can in the marketing
>>plan you've built up for OO.o.
>>
>>I tout OO.o whenever possible to industry folk, with
>>some pleasant 
>>results.  Even
>>day to day conversations bring about the opportunity
>>to present OO.o to 
>>'newbies'.
>>I've plenty of stories, as I'm sure do you . . .
>>
>>As with you all, I'll be donating my own time.
>>Simply put, I find doing 
>>so worthwhile.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Eric
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
>   
>   
>   
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-- 
Eric Renaud
Sun Open Source Program Office
Cell - 408.823.8661



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[Marketing] Intro to OOo marketing

[Eric Renaud]

Hello,
I'm Eric Renaud, a Sun employee working in the Open Source Programs Office
for about 4 years now.  That has given me the opportunity to be involved 
with
OO.o on many levels;  and now I want to help however I can in the marketing
plan you've built up for OO.o.

I tout OO.o whenever possible to industry folk, with some pleasant 
results.  Even
day to day conversations bring about the opportunity to present OO.o to 
'newbies'.
I've plenty of stories, as I'm sure do you . . .

As with you all, I'll be donating my own time. Simply put, I find doing 
so worthwhile.

Regards,
Eric
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