RE: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Hi Maybe the build-version in the manifest must follow a pattern. I see in RELEASE82 artefacts that the pattern is a date and that in the RELEASE100 or 110 we have a text+timestamp. I thinks it’s good to stay in this pattern and will regenerate artefacts using date but I’m not sure what happened in you build Regards Eric De : Christian Lenz Envoyé : dimanche 7 avril 2019 11:17 À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org Objet : AW: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process Hey Arsi, did you tried it with NetBeans 11? Just asking. Cheers Chris Von: arsi <mailto:a...@chello.sk> Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. April 2019 09:24 An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org <mailto:dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org> Betreff: Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process Hi, I tried to compile NBANDRIOD-V2 for NB10, but there is a problem with the implementation version of the maven modules. The compiled version of NB10 that is on the web has a different impl versions... It must be ensured that the implementation versions of the maven artifacts are identical to the current ANBxx distribution. Thanks.. Arsi From: Jaroslav Tulach <mailto:jaroslav.tul...@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2019 4:06AM To: Dev <mailto:dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org> Subject: Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process Great! I have successfully used both repositories (1012 and 1013) to build my projects. -jt Dne pátek 5. dubna 2019 19:09:48 CEST, Eric Barboni napsal(a): Hi, I would notify that we have now Apache NetBeans (incubating) 11 maven artefacts https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1013 and the 10 version here https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012 they are respectively build by Jenkins at apache according to the respective tag that was voted +1. I removed the former repository with org.apache.netbeans groupid Regards Eric -Message d'origine- De : Jaroslav Tulach <mailto:jaroslav.tul...@gmail.com> Envoyé : vendredi 29 mars 2019 10:26 À : Apache NetBeans <mailto:dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org> Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process Ate wrote: Hi Mark, Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me. Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the (re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId. Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately. So +1 on this from me. Thank you Ate and Mark for looking at the Apache NetBeans groupId issue so through-fully. Thanks Ate, for giving us a go to proceed. Eric Barboni <mailto:sk...@apache.org> wrote: I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this staged items I personally suggest to hold the vote few weeks to not conflict with the current vote about NetBeans 11 release, but... The content is on apache nexus like that https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1 012 the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted Apache NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key. Is this enough for a vote ? (nothing more on dist.apache.org as source zip already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it) ...count with my +1 for the https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012 repository anytime you call the vote! -jt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org <mailto:dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org <mailto:dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org <mailto:dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
RE: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Hi, I would notify that we have now Apache NetBeans (incubating) 11 maven artefacts https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1013 and the 10 version here https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012 they are respectively build by Jenkins at apache according to the respective tag that was voted +1. I removed the former repository with org.apache.netbeans groupid Regards Eric -Message d'origine- De : Jaroslav Tulach Envoyé : vendredi 29 mars 2019 10:26 À : Apache NetBeans Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process Ate wrote: > Hi Mark, > Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me. > > Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the (re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId. > Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately. > So +1 on this from me. Thank you Ate and Mark for looking at the Apache NetBeans groupId issue so through-fully. Thanks Ate, for giving us a go to proceed. Eric Barboni wrote: > I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this > staged items > I personally suggest to hold the vote few weeks to not conflict with the current vote about NetBeans 11 release, but... > The content is on apache nexus like that > https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1 > 012 the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted > Apache NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key. > Is this enough for a vote ? (nothing more on dist.apache.org as > source zip already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it) > ...count with my +1 for the https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012 repository anytime you call the vote! -jt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
AW: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Hey Arsi, did you tried it with NetBeans 11? Just asking. Cheers Chris Von: arsi Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. April 2019 09:24 An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org Betreff: Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process Hi, I tried to compile NBANDRIOD-V2 for NB10, but there is a problem with the implementation version of the maven modules. The compiled version of NB10 that is on the web has a different impl versions... It must be ensured that the implementation versions of the maven artifacts are identical to the current ANBxx distribution. Thanks.. Arsi From: Jaroslav Tulach Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2019 4:06AM To: Dev Subject: Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process Great! I have successfully used both repositories (1012 and 1013) to build my projects. -jt Dne pátek 5. dubna 2019 19:09:48 CEST, Eric Barboni napsal(a): Hi, I would notify that we have now Apache NetBeans (incubating) 11 maven artefacts https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1013 and the 10 version here https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012 they are respectively build by Jenkins at apache according to the respective tag that was voted +1. I removed the former repository with org.apache.netbeans groupid Regards Eric -Message d'origine- De : Jaroslav Tulach Envoyé : vendredi 29 mars 2019 10:26 À : Apache NetBeans Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process Ate wrote: Hi Mark, Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me. Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the (re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId. Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately. So +1 on this from me. Thank you Ate and Mark for looking at the Apache NetBeans groupId issue so through-fully. Thanks Ate, for giving us a go to proceed. Eric Barboni wrote: I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this staged items I personally suggest to hold the vote few weeks to not conflict with the current vote about NetBeans 11 release, but... The content is on apache nexus like that https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1 012 the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted Apache NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key. Is this enough for a vote ? (nothing more on dist.apache.org as source zip already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it) ...count with my +1 for the https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012 repository anytime you call the vote! -jt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Hi, I tried to compile NBANDRIOD-V2 for NB10, but there is a problem with the implementation version of the maven modules. The compiled version of NB10 that is on the web has a different impl versions... It must be ensured that the implementation versions of the maven artifacts are identical to the current ANBxx distribution. Thanks.. Arsi *From:* Jaroslav Tulach *Sent:* Sunday, April 07, 2019 4:06AM *To:* Dev *Subject:* Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process Great! I have successfully used both repositories (1012 and 1013) to build my projects. -jt Dne pátek 5. dubna 2019 19:09:48 CEST, Eric Barboni napsal(a): Hi, I would notify that we have now Apache NetBeans (incubating) 11 maven artefacts https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1013 and the 10 version here https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012 they are respectively build by Jenkins at apache according to the respective tag that was voted +1. I removed the former repository with org.apache.netbeans groupid Regards Eric -Message d'origine- De : Jaroslav Tulach Envoyé : vendredi 29 mars 2019 10:26 À : Apache NetBeans Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process Ate wrote: Hi Mark, Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me. Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the (re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId. Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately. So +1 on this from me. Thank you Ate and Mark for looking at the Apache NetBeans groupId issue so through-fully. Thanks Ate, for giving us a go to proceed. Eric Barboni wrote: I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this staged items I personally suggest to hold the vote few weeks to not conflict with the current vote about NetBeans 11 release, but... The content is on apache nexus like that https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1 012 the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted Apache NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key. Is this enough for a vote ? (nothing more on dist.apache.org as source zip already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it) ...count with my +1 for the https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012 repository anytime you call the vote! -jt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Great! I have successfully used both repositories (1012 and 1013) to build my projects. -jt Dne pátek 5. dubna 2019 19:09:48 CEST, Eric Barboni napsal(a): > Hi, > > I would notify that we have now Apache NetBeans (incubating) 11 maven > artefacts > https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1013 > > and the 10 version here > https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012 > > they are respectively build by Jenkins at apache according to the respective > tag that was voted +1. > > I removed the former repository with org.apache.netbeans groupid > > Regards > Eric > > -Message d'origine- > De : Jaroslav Tulach > Envoyé : vendredi 29 mars 2019 10:26 > À : Apache NetBeans > Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process > > Ate wrote: > > Hi Mark, > > Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me. > > > > Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the > > (re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId. > > > Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with > > Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately. > > > So +1 on this from me. > > Thank you Ate and Mark for looking at the Apache NetBeans groupId issue so > through-fully. Thanks Ate, for giving us a go to proceed. > Eric Barboni wrote: > > I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this > > staged items > > I personally suggest to hold the vote few weeks to not conflict with the > current vote about NetBeans 11 release, but... > > The content is on apache nexus like that > > https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1 > > 012 the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted > > Apache NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key. > > Is this enough for a vote ? (nothing more on dist.apache.org as > > source zip already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it) > > ...count with my +1 for the > https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012 > repository anytime you call the vote! > -jt > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
RE: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Hi, I would notify that we have now Apache NetBeans (incubating) 11 maven artefacts https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1013 and the 10 version here https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012 they are respectively build by Jenkins at apache according to the respective tag that was voted +1. I removed the former repository with org.apache.netbeans groupid Regards Eric -Message d'origine- De : Jaroslav Tulach Envoyé : vendredi 29 mars 2019 10:26 À : Apache NetBeans Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process Ate wrote: > Hi Mark, > Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me. > > Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the (re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId. > Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately. > So +1 on this from me. Thank you Ate and Mark for looking at the Apache NetBeans groupId issue so through-fully. Thanks Ate, for giving us a go to proceed. Eric Barboni wrote: > I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this > staged items > I personally suggest to hold the vote few weeks to not conflict with the current vote about NetBeans 11 release, but... > The content is on apache nexus like that > https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1 > 012 the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted > Apache NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key. > Is this enough for a vote ? (nothing more on dist.apache.org as > source zip already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it) > ...count with my +1 for the https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012 repository anytime you call the vote! -jt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Ate wrote: > Hi Mark, > Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me. > > Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the (re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId. > Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately. > So +1 on this from me. Thank you Ate and Mark for looking at the Apache NetBeans groupId issue so through-fully. Thanks Ate, for giving us a go to proceed. Eric Barboni wrote: > I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this staged > items > I personally suggest to hold the vote few weeks to not conflict with the current vote about NetBeans 11 release, but... > The content is on apache nexus like that > https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012 > the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted Apache > NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key. Is this > enough for a vote ? (nothing more on dist.apache.org as source zip > already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it) > ...count with my +1 for the https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012 repository anytime you call the vote! -jt
RE: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Hi Thanks a lot for the discussion. I'm not sure what I need to do. On the technical part as per https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-17127 the Nexus infrastructure allow to stage on the org.netbeans or org.apache.netbeans groupId. Seamless would be org.netbeans of course. I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this staged items The content is on apache nexus like that https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012 the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted Apache NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key. Is this enough for a vote ? (nothing more on dist.apache.org as source zip already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it) Not presuming graduation but let's say graduation is done but artefacts from incubator Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9 are not yet published. Is a PMC allowed to release by itself or should it be also IPMC as the artefacts they belong were done during incubating period. Best Regards Eric (Not very helpful but as it's a maven tools preparing the populating of the repository (not the signing phase), it is possible to run it twice to populate the both groupid) -Message d'origine- De : Ate Douma Envoyé : lundi 25 mars 2019 22:28 À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process Hi Mark, Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me. Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the (re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId. Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately. So +1 on this from me. A few comments and remarks inline below. On 25/03/2019 19.36, Mark Struberg wrote: > Uff, quite a few questions. And really good ones! I try to play devils > advocate. > > 1) If the ASF owns the NetBeans mark and the netbeans.org domain it doesn't > make any legal difference if we call the groupId org.apache.netbeans or just > org.netbeans. Or even foo.netbeans. > 2.) The referenced page with the artifact publishing guide lists it as SHOULD > and not as MUST. Right, I should have noticed that. > 3.) While org.apache.* is definitely preferred nowadays there are > plenty ASF projects which use a different groupId for historical > reasons. Please check out > https://repository.apache.org/#view-repositories;releases~browsestorag > e I wouldn't say 'plenty ASF projects'. I just checked it out and besides freemarker and only a few recent commons "maintenance" releases, all other releases not under the org.apache groupId are at least from 2 or several more years ago. In contrast to the like 100+ ASF projects which now are released under the org.apache groupId, including many/most new commons releases. So, while it may be OK and desired for NetBeans to keep using the org.netbeans GroupId, IMO it is and remains 'uncommon' :-) > 4.) The Branding is imo rarely related to the Maven groupId. The groupId is > for technicials to have a technical reference coordinate. The Branding is > done on the user facing level. Sure, that makes sense to me as well. However this isn't really made clear or explicit, at least not to my understanding. That said: I assume this 'problem' doesn't come up so often in practice that it needed explicit attention in the policy. > > 5.) >> But given the ongoing discussions with respect to externally hosted> >> 'binary' releases (like on dockerhub) and especially how these should be >> controlled and marked (branded) by the ASFNobody should be allowed to push >> anything to any package name the ASF controls. This is simply something we >> have to make clear with Sonatype, dockerhub and our infra. Sonatype eg has >> some pretty strict control in place to forbid 'injection' of artifacts into >> foreign groupIds. > 6.) NetBeans is not only just an IDE but really a much bigger ecosystem!If we > change the groupId - or even worse the package names - then we break all the > projects depending on NetBeans for their own stuff. Be it plugins which > probably won't compile with new NB versions anymore. Or be it Editor projects > based on the NetBeans core. > NetBeans is actually not just an IDE and an ecosystem but also a modular > environment. A little bit like OSGi, but much more straight. There are many > dynamic processes involved which are based on names and reflection. Honestly > I do not really see a benefit in moving to org.apache.* for the groupId or > package names. Of course it would be more sane NOW, but it would most > probably be really disruptive for the whole surrounding projec
Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Hi Mark,
Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me.
Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the
(re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId.
Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with
Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately.
So +1 on this from me.
A few comments and remarks inline below.
On 25/03/2019 19.36, Mark Struberg wrote:
Uff, quite a few questions. And really good ones! I try to play devils
advocate.
1) If the ASF owns the NetBeans mark and the netbeans.org domain it doesn't
make any legal difference if we call the groupId org.apache.netbeans or just
org.netbeans. Or even foo.netbeans.
2.) The referenced page with the artifact publishing guide lists it as SHOULD
and not as MUST.
Right, I should have noticed that.
3.) While org.apache.* is definitely preferred nowadays there are plenty ASF
projects which use a different groupId for historical reasons. Please check out
https://repository.apache.org/#view-repositories;releases~browsestorage
I wouldn't say 'plenty ASF projects'.
I just checked it out and besides freemarker and only a few recent
commons "maintenance" releases, all other releases not under the
org.apache groupId are at least from 2 or several more years ago.
In contrast to the like 100+ ASF projects which now are released under
the org.apache groupId, including many/most new commons releases.
So, while it may be OK and desired for NetBeans to keep using the
org.netbeans GroupId, IMO it is and remains 'uncommon' :-)
4.) The Branding is imo rarely related to the Maven groupId. The groupId is for
technicials to have a technical reference coordinate. The Branding is done on
the user facing level.
Sure, that makes sense to me as well.
However this isn't really made clear or explicit, at least not to my
understanding.
That said: I assume this 'problem' doesn't come up so often in practice
that it needed explicit attention in the policy.
5.)
But given the ongoing discussions with respect to externally hosted> 'binary'
releases (like on dockerhub) and especially how these should be
controlled and marked (branded) by the ASFNobody should be allowed to push
anything to any package name the ASF controls. This is simply something we have
to make clear with Sonatype, dockerhub and our infra. Sonatype eg has some
pretty strict control in place to forbid 'injection' of artifacts into foreign
groupIds.
6.) NetBeans is not only just an IDE but really a much bigger ecosystem!If we
change the groupId - or even worse the package names - then we break all the
projects depending on NetBeans for their own stuff. Be it plugins which
probably won't compile with new NB versions anymore. Or be it Editor projects
based on the NetBeans core.
NetBeans is actually not just an IDE and an ecosystem but also a modular
environment. A little bit like OSGi, but much more straight. There are many
dynamic processes involved which are based on names and reflection. Honestly I
do not really see a benefit in moving to org.apache.* for the groupId or
package names. Of course it would be more sane NOW, but it would most probably
be really disruptive for the whole surrounding projects building on top of
NetBeans core technologies.
Does this make sense?
Yes.
As you said, *if* doing a groupId change, NOW would be the more sane
time to do so.
And when not done now or soonish, more likely it won't be done at all,
ever.
Ultimately that is a decision for the (P)PMC and community to make, as
long as it is allowed and aligned with the ASF rules and policy.
Regards, Ate
LieGrue,strub
On Monday, 25 March 2019, 15:09:09 CET, Ate Douma wrote:
On 25/03/2019 12.59, Mark Struberg wrote:
We did have this discussion over a year ago with Greg Stein.
Back then the blocker was indeed the missing trademarks for 'NetBeans'.
With this resolved there is no legal problem anymore afaict.
Yes, the ASF by default prefers to use the org.apache.* groupIds. Mostly
because there is no exceptional management necessary in our Nexus
staging setup. But we have quite a few projects using other package
names. E.g. commons still publishes maintenance versions for commons-*
as groupId.
+1 for the Infra ticket as it might be some manual work for them to
allow NB to use org.netbeans.* as groupId. Please make sure to mention
that we need this package name for backward compatibility reasons.
I'm not sure about trademarks@a.o involvement. What do trademarks have
to do with our package name? It's _not_ about the domain, it's about
technical coordinates. Since we (ASF) now own the trademark on
'NetBeans' there is not much to clarify with them imo. It's really more
an infra thingy as this doesn't nicely fit into our
org.apache.${project} schema which is a proven path for them.
Hi Mark,
You may be completely right about this. The uncertainty I have (or had)
was not related to trademarks but the *b
Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Uff, quite a few questions. And really good ones! I try to play devils
advocate.
1) If the ASF owns the NetBeans mark and the netbeans.org domain it doesn't
make any legal difference if we call the groupId org.apache.netbeans or just
org.netbeans. Or even foo.netbeans.
2.) The referenced page with the artifact publishing guide lists it as SHOULD
and not as MUST.
3.) While org.apache.* is definitely preferred nowadays there are plenty ASF
projects which use a different groupId for historical reasons. Please check out
https://repository.apache.org/#view-repositories;releases~browsestorage
4.) The Branding is imo rarely related to the Maven groupId. The groupId is for
technicials to have a technical reference coordinate. The Branding is done on
the user facing level.
5.)
> But given the ongoing discussions with respect to externally hosted> 'binary'
> releases (like on dockerhub) and especially how these should be
> controlled and marked (branded) by the ASFNobody should be allowed to push
> anything to any package name the ASF controls. This is simply something we
> have to make clear with Sonatype, dockerhub and our infra. Sonatype eg has
> some pretty strict control in place to forbid 'injection' of artifacts into
> foreign groupIds.
6.) NetBeans is not only just an IDE but really a much bigger ecosystem!If we
change the groupId - or even worse the package names - then we break all the
projects depending on NetBeans for their own stuff. Be it plugins which
probably won't compile with new NB versions anymore. Or be it Editor projects
based on the NetBeans core.
NetBeans is actually not just an IDE and an ecosystem but also a modular
environment. A little bit like OSGi, but much more straight. There are many
dynamic processes involved which are based on names and reflection. Honestly I
do not really see a benefit in moving to org.apache.* for the groupId or
package names. Of course it would be more sane NOW, but it would most probably
be really disruptive for the whole surrounding projects building on top of
NetBeans core technologies.
Does this make sense?
LieGrue,strub
On Monday, 25 March 2019, 15:09:09 CET, Ate Douma wrote:
On 25/03/2019 12.59, Mark Struberg wrote:
> We did have this discussion over a year ago with Greg Stein.
>
> Back then the blocker was indeed the missing trademarks for 'NetBeans'.
> With this resolved there is no legal problem anymore afaict.
>
> Yes, the ASF by default prefers to use the org.apache.* groupIds. Mostly
> because there is no exceptional management necessary in our Nexus
> staging setup. But we have quite a few projects using other package
> names. E.g. commons still publishes maintenance versions for commons-*
> as groupId.
>
> +1 for the Infra ticket as it might be some manual work for them to
> allow NB to use org.netbeans.* as groupId. Please make sure to mention
> that we need this package name for backward compatibility reasons.
>
>
> I'm not sure about trademarks@a.o involvement. What do trademarks have
> to do with our package name? It's _not_ about the domain, it's about
> technical coordinates. Since we (ASF) now own the trademark on
> 'NetBeans' there is not much to clarify with them imo. It's really more
> an infra thingy as this doesn't nicely fit into our
> org.apache.${project} schema which is a proven path for them.
Hi Mark,
You may be completely right about this. The uncertainty I have (or had)
was not related to trademarks but the *branding*, which happens to be
handled by the same committee.
I cannot find any public policy document at the ASF clarifying the
desire or possibly requirement how a Maven GroupId may or should be
used from branding POV.
The only practical documentation available with respect to Maven
artifacts is [1] and that assumes and requires using org.apache.
as prefix for the GroupId:
"Maven Group Ids: a list of the groupIds for this project. They should
all be subgroups of org.apache"
All this may indeed only be a technical hurdle, agreed.
But given the ongoing discussions with respect to externally hosted
'binary' releases (like on dockerhub) and especially how these should be
controlled and marked (branded) by the ASF, it seemed advisable to me
to check with the Branding (aka Trademarks) Committee what the rules and
policy requirements are, if any, with respect to Maven GroupId.
Regards,
Ate
[1] http://www.apache.org/dev/publishing-maven-artifacts
>
> LieGrue,
> strub
>
>
> Am 25.03.19 um 09:26 schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 8:48 AM Ate Douma wrote:
>>> ...Unless one of the other mentors has a different view or is aware
>>> of more
>>> explicit guidelines in this, I suggest raising these questions at
>>> tradema...@apache.org instead
>> +1 and I suggest backing that discussion with a
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS ticket so as to
>> document what'sm being done and the conclusions.
>>
>> -Bertrand
>>
Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
On 25/03/2019 12.59, Mark Struberg wrote:
We did have this discussion over a year ago with Greg Stein.
Back then the blocker was indeed the missing trademarks for 'NetBeans'.
With this resolved there is no legal problem anymore afaict.
Yes, the ASF by default prefers to use the org.apache.* groupIds. Mostly
because there is no exceptional management necessary in our Nexus
staging setup. But we have quite a few projects using other package
names. E.g. commons still publishes maintenance versions for commons-*
as groupId.
+1 for the Infra ticket as it might be some manual work for them to
allow NB to use org.netbeans.* as groupId. Please make sure to mention
that we need this package name for backward compatibility reasons.
I'm not sure about trademarks@a.o involvement. What do trademarks have
to do with our package name? It's _not_ about the domain, it's about
technical coordinates. Since we (ASF) now own the trademark on
'NetBeans' there is not much to clarify with them imo. It's really more
an infra thingy as this doesn't nicely fit into our
org.apache.${project} schema which is a proven path for them.
Hi Mark,
You may be completely right about this. The uncertainty I have (or had)
was not related to trademarks but the *branding*, which happens to be
handled by the same committee.
I cannot find any public policy document at the ASF clarifying the
desire or possibly requirement how a Maven GroupId may or should be
used from branding POV.
The only practical documentation available with respect to Maven
artifacts is [1] and that assumes and requires using org.apache.
as prefix for the GroupId:
"Maven Group Ids: a list of the groupIds for this project. They should
all be subgroups of org.apache"
All this may indeed only be a technical hurdle, agreed.
But given the ongoing discussions with respect to externally hosted
'binary' releases (like on dockerhub) and especially how these should be
controlled and marked (branded) by the ASF, it seemed advisable to me
to check with the Branding (aka Trademarks) Committee what the rules and
policy requirements are, if any, with respect to Maven GroupId.
Regards,
Ate
[1] http://www.apache.org/dev/publishing-maven-artifacts
LieGrue,
strub
Am 25.03.19 um 09:26 schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz:
Hi,
On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 8:48 AM Ate Douma wrote:
...Unless one of the other mentors has a different view or is aware
of more
explicit guidelines in this, I suggest raising these questions at
tradema...@apache.org instead
+1 and I suggest backing that discussion with a
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS ticket so as to
document what'sm being done and the conclusions.
-Bertrand
-
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RE: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Hi,
I think the ticket is already done here
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-17127
Staging is possible on org.netbeans. for the maven artefacts for the IDE.
Newly created artefacts will go to their org.apache.netbeans
Like netbeans-parent, and the incoming utilities that are code donation from
codehaus we do a few month ago.
Regards
Eric
-Message d'origine-
De : Mark Struberg
Envoyé : lundi 25 mars 2019 13:00
À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
We did have this discussion over a year ago with Greg Stein.
Back then the blocker was indeed the missing trademarks for 'NetBeans'.
With this resolved there is no legal problem anymore afaict.
Yes, the ASF by default prefers to use the org.apache.* groupIds. Mostly
because there is no exceptional management necessary in our Nexus staging
setup. But we have quite a few projects using other package names. E.g. commons
still publishes maintenance versions for commons-* as groupId.
+1 for the Infra ticket as it might be some manual work for them to
allow NB to use org.netbeans.* as groupId. Please make sure to mention that we
need this package name for backward compatibility reasons.
I'm not sure about trademarks@a.o involvement. What do trademarks have
to do with our package name? It's _not_ about the domain, it's about
technical coordinates. Since we (ASF) now own the trademark on
'NetBeans' there is not much to clarify with them imo. It's really more
an infra thingy as this doesn't nicely fit into our
org.apache.${project} schema which is a proven path for them.
LieGrue,
strub
Am 25.03.19 um 09:26 schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 8:48 AM Ate Douma wrote:
>> ...Unless one of the other mentors has a different view or is aware of more
>> explicit guidelines in this, I suggest raising these questions at
>> tradema...@apache.org instead
> +1 and I suggest backing that discussion with a
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS ticket so as to
> document what'sm being done and the conclusions.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
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-
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Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
We did have this discussion over a year ago with Greg Stein.
Back then the blocker was indeed the missing trademarks for 'NetBeans'.
With this resolved there is no legal problem anymore afaict.
Yes, the ASF by default prefers to use the org.apache.* groupIds. Mostly
because there is no exceptional management necessary in our Nexus
staging setup. But we have quite a few projects using other package
names. E.g. commons still publishes maintenance versions for commons-*
as groupId.
+1 for the Infra ticket as it might be some manual work for them to
allow NB to use org.netbeans.* as groupId. Please make sure to mention
that we need this package name for backward compatibility reasons.
I'm not sure about trademarks@a.o involvement. What do trademarks have
to do with our package name? It's _not_ about the domain, it's about
technical coordinates. Since we (ASF) now own the trademark on
'NetBeans' there is not much to clarify with them imo. It's really more
an infra thingy as this doesn't nicely fit into our
org.apache.${project} schema which is a proven path for them.
LieGrue,
strub
Am 25.03.19 um 09:26 schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz:
Hi,
On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 8:48 AM Ate Douma wrote:
...Unless one of the other mentors has a different view or is aware of more
explicit guidelines in this, I suggest raising these questions at
tradema...@apache.org instead
+1 and I suggest backing that discussion with a
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS ticket so as to
document what'sm being done and the conclusions.
-Bertrand
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Hi, On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 8:48 AM Ate Douma wrote: > ...Unless one of the other mentors has a different view or is aware of more > explicit guidelines in this, I suggest raising these questions at > tradema...@apache.org instead +1 and I suggest backing that discussion with a https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS ticket so as to document what'sm being done and the conclusions. -Bertrand - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
On 25/03/2019 05.55, Jaroslav Tulach wrote: Thanks Ate. It is great to hear that using org.netbeans.* groupId is legally OK and that it is not against any Apache policy. I didn't draw that conclusion, please don't make it sound as if I did... Instead, I wrote this: Legally, I think it should be fine, because netbeans.org has been transferred to the ASF. But it might still not be desired or allowed from ASF (branding) Policy POV. So again, I advise to explicitly ask this to be answered and agreed upon first by the Apache Trademark (and Branding) Committee. [APIs are like stars](http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/Star) - they are with us "forever" (or at least until their users/observers are alive). It is the goal of the maintainers to make sure the APIs evolve well. Code changes driven by marketing/branding purposes are the most harmful and useless changes to any API. Nobody wants to repeat the com.sun.swing -> javax.swing rename disaster. To be clear: we're discussing Maven coordinates here, not Java packages! Java package naming is a different topic and *may* not need to follow the rules or policy, transitionally. For example it might be feasible to provide and use org.apache. prefixed Maven coordinates which artifacts provide org.netbeans Java packaged classes. Or maybe even *also* provide org.netbeans. prefixed Maven coordinated artifacts as transitional solution for existing Maven users. But again, please ask at tradema...@apache.org, I'm not enough of an expert in this matter. It is important, especially right now, to make the migration of NetBeans Platform 8.2 to Apache NetBeans Platform as smooth as possible. We don't want people to ask questions like: "Should I upgrade or should I rather stay with pre-Apache version?" Keeping the artifact co-ordinates is essential part of making the migration of Maven based projects on top of NetBeans Platform "no brainer". Many Apache projects are [kept in historical co-ordinates]( https://repository.apache.org/content/groups/public/) - freemarker, log4j, etc. I you actually check the above you'll notice these projects *did* move and migrate to using the org.apache. prefix for their GroupId. What you're pointing at are indeed *historical* (old) artifacts. There may even be a necessary incidental maintenance/security release in one of the old / outdated coordinates, but for *new* releases these, and AFAIK every other ASF project with Maven artifacts, nowadays uses the org.apache. prefix. It is not fair to not allow NetBeans to do the same. Especially when backward compatibility has always been a major focus of everything we did in the NetBeans Platform. Dear mentors, please guide me on my quest to keep the Maven co-ordinates unchanged. Thanks you. Unless one of the other mentors has a different view or is aware of more explicit guidelines in this, I suggest raising these questions at tradema...@apache.org instead. Jaroslav Tulach NetBeans Founder NetBeans Platform Architect po 25. 3. 2019 v 0:57 odesílatel Ate Douma napsal: On 19/03/2019 18.34, Eric Barboni wrote: Hi, Prior to any process for voting/releasing the Apache Netbeans maven artefacts would be sure on one point. We may use groupId org.apache.netbeans or org.netbeans as we have the grant to do so. It would be easier and more backward compatible to use org.netbeans as groupId for Apache NetBeans artefacts. Can we use that groupId forever even if we became a TLP. Or was it only for transitioning purpose. I think you must ask this on tradema...@apache.org. The Apache Branding Policy says [1] that podlings may request to keep non apache domain names (e.g. netbeans.org) for *limited uses* once the podling graduates to TLP. That primarily concerns website and domain usages, but the Policy isn't really clear/explicit in how far the "limited uses" is, or may be extended to 'forever' usage when such a domain has been transferred to the ASF. My gut feeling is: only in exceptional cases, as explained at [1] for openoffice.org and groovy-lang.org. In how far this extends (or not) to the usage of non apache Maven GroupId, temporarily or 'forever', is really not addressed nor answered there, nor anywhere else I searched for it. Legally, I think it should be fine, because netbeans.org has been transferred to the ASF. But it might still not be desired or allowed from ASF (branding) Policy POV. So again, I advise to explicitly ask this to be answered and agreed upon first by the Apache Trademark (and Branding) Committee. Possibly other mentors may have more experience/knowledge in this area how other podlings dealt with this, and can chime in as well? Note: I understand the wish to retain the usage of org.netbeans as Maven GroupId for backwards compatibility. But even if this will be allowed, is it really needed to stick to using it 'forever'? If not yet now, IMO it is advisable to at least discuss and plan to migrate and transition to using org.apache.netbean
Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
+1000 to this mail. We've been struggling to make transition as smooth as possible for users for some years now. Let's continue doing so. Thanks, Antonio El 25/3/19 a las 5:55, Jaroslav Tulach escribió: Thanks Ate. It is great to hear that using org.netbeans.* groupId is legally OK and that it is not against any Apache policy. [APIs are like stars](http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/Star) - they are with us "forever" (or at least until their users/observers are alive). It is the goal of the maintainers to make sure the APIs evolve well. Code changes driven by marketing/branding purposes are the most harmful and useless changes to any API. Nobody wants to repeat the com.sun.swing -> javax.swing rename disaster. It is important, especially right now, to make the migration of NetBeans Platform 8.2 to Apache NetBeans Platform as smooth as possible. We don't want people to ask questions like: "Should I upgrade or should I rather stay with pre-Apache version?" Keeping the artifact co-ordinates is essential part of making the migration of Maven based projects on top of NetBeans Platform "no brainer". Many Apache projects are [kept in historical co-ordinates]( https://repository.apache.org/content/groups/public/) - freemarker, log4j, etc. It is not fair to not allow NetBeans to do the same. Especially when backward compatibility has always been a major focus of everything we did in the NetBeans Platform. Dear mentors, please guide me on my quest to keep the Maven co-ordinates unchanged. Thanks you. Jaroslav Tulach NetBeans Founder NetBeans Platform Architect po 25. 3. 2019 v 0:57 odesílatel Ate Douma napsal: On 19/03/2019 18.34, Eric Barboni wrote: Hi, Prior to any process for voting/releasing the Apache Netbeans maven artefacts would be sure on one point. We may use groupId org.apache.netbeans or org.netbeans as we have the grant to do so. It would be easier and more backward compatible to use org.netbeans as groupId for Apache NetBeans artefacts. Can we use that groupId forever even if we became a TLP. Or was it only for transitioning purpose. I think you must ask this on tradema...@apache.org. The Apache Branding Policy says [1] that podlings may request to keep non apache domain names (e.g. netbeans.org) for *limited uses* once the podling graduates to TLP. That primarily concerns website and domain usages, but the Policy isn't really clear/explicit in how far the "limited uses" is, or may be extended to 'forever' usage when such a domain has been transferred to the ASF. My gut feeling is: only in exceptional cases, as explained at [1] for openoffice.org and groovy-lang.org. In how far this extends (or not) to the usage of non apache Maven GroupId, temporarily or 'forever', is really not addressed nor answered there, nor anywhere else I searched for it. Legally, I think it should be fine, because netbeans.org has been transferred to the ASF. But it might still not be desired or allowed from ASF (branding) Policy POV. So again, I advise to explicitly ask this to be answered and agreed upon first by the Apache Trademark (and Branding) Committee. Possibly other mentors may have more experience/knowledge in this area how other podlings dealt with this, and can chime in as well? Note: I understand the wish to retain the usage of org.netbeans as Maven GroupId for backwards compatibility. But even if this will be allowed, is it really needed to stick to using it 'forever'? If not yet now, IMO it is advisable to at least discuss and plan to migrate and transition to using org.apache.netbeans for future Maven artifacts / NetBeans releases. If not, do you want to use org.netbeans also for new Maven artifacts? Otherwise you'll end up with an even more 'messy' Maven/Nexus artifact management, using 2 different (base) GroupIds... [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs#nonapache One second question is concerning process to vote/release the artefacts. The artefacts are built using the same tag as the official release of Apache NetBeans (incubating) for example for version 10 its tag is 10.0-vc5. The only element to vote on would be a staged repository with a bunch of artefacts at ( https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1011/ ) as the source are already released (signed by two different people). Will that work the Apache way ? How to make it comply. Best Regards Eric PS: (The donated mavenutilities plugins will be at org.apache.netbeans because they are new artefacts as the previous release netbeans-parent) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists ---
Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Thanks Ate. It is great to hear that using org.netbeans.* groupId is legally OK and that it is not against any Apache policy. [APIs are like stars](http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/Star) - they are with us "forever" (or at least until their users/observers are alive). It is the goal of the maintainers to make sure the APIs evolve well. Code changes driven by marketing/branding purposes are the most harmful and useless changes to any API. Nobody wants to repeat the com.sun.swing -> javax.swing rename disaster. It is important, especially right now, to make the migration of NetBeans Platform 8.2 to Apache NetBeans Platform as smooth as possible. We don't want people to ask questions like: "Should I upgrade or should I rather stay with pre-Apache version?" Keeping the artifact co-ordinates is essential part of making the migration of Maven based projects on top of NetBeans Platform "no brainer". Many Apache projects are [kept in historical co-ordinates]( https://repository.apache.org/content/groups/public/) - freemarker, log4j, etc. It is not fair to not allow NetBeans to do the same. Especially when backward compatibility has always been a major focus of everything we did in the NetBeans Platform. Dear mentors, please guide me on my quest to keep the Maven co-ordinates unchanged. Thanks you. Jaroslav Tulach NetBeans Founder NetBeans Platform Architect po 25. 3. 2019 v 0:57 odesílatel Ate Douma napsal: > > > On 19/03/2019 18.34, Eric Barboni wrote: > > Hi, > > > >Prior to any process for voting/releasing the Apache Netbeans maven > > artefacts would be sure on one point. We may use groupId > > org.apache.netbeans or org.netbeans as we have the grant to do so. > > > > It would be easier and more backward compatible to use org.netbeans as > > groupId for Apache NetBeans artefacts. Can we use that groupId forever > even > > if we became a TLP. Or was it only for transitioning purpose. > > I think you must ask this on tradema...@apache.org. > > The Apache Branding Policy says [1] that podlings may request to keep > non apache domain names (e.g. netbeans.org) for *limited uses* once the > podling graduates to TLP. > > That primarily concerns website and domain usages, but the Policy isn't > really clear/explicit in how far the "limited uses" is, or may be > extended to 'forever' usage when such a domain has been transferred to > the ASF. My gut feeling is: only in exceptional cases, as explained at > [1] for openoffice.org and groovy-lang.org. > > In how far this extends (or not) to the usage of non apache Maven > GroupId, temporarily or 'forever', is really not addressed nor answered > there, nor anywhere else I searched for it. > Legally, I think it should be fine, because netbeans.org has been > transferred to the ASF. But it might still not be desired or allowed > from ASF (branding) Policy POV. > So again, I advise to explicitly ask this to be answered and agreed upon > first by the Apache Trademark (and Branding) Committee. > > Possibly other mentors may have more experience/knowledge in this area > how other podlings dealt with this, and can chime in as well? > > Note: I understand the wish to retain the usage of org.netbeans as Maven > GroupId for backwards compatibility. But even if this will be allowed, > is it really needed to stick to using it 'forever'? > If not yet now, IMO it is advisable to at least discuss and plan to > migrate and transition to using org.apache.netbeans for future > Maven artifacts / NetBeans releases. > If not, do you want to use org.netbeans also for new Maven artifacts? > Otherwise you'll end up with an even more 'messy' Maven/Nexus artifact > management, using 2 different (base) GroupIds... > > > [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs#nonapache > > > > > > > > > > > > >One second question is concerning process to vote/release the > artefacts. > > The artefacts are built using the same tag as the official release of > Apache > > NetBeans (incubating) for example for version 10 its tag is 10.0-vc5. > > > > The only element to vote on would be a staged repository with a bunch > of > > artefacts at > > ( > https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1011/ > ) > > as the source are already released (signed by two different people). > > > >Will that work the Apache way ? How to make it comply. > > > > > > > > Best Regards > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > PS: > > > > (The donated mavenutilities plugins will be at org.apache.netbeans > because > > they are new artefacts as the previous release netbeans-parent) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > > >
Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
On 19/03/2019 18.34, Eric Barboni wrote: Hi, Prior to any process for voting/releasing the Apache Netbeans maven artefacts would be sure on one point. We may use groupId org.apache.netbeans or org.netbeans as we have the grant to do so. It would be easier and more backward compatible to use org.netbeans as groupId for Apache NetBeans artefacts. Can we use that groupId forever even if we became a TLP. Or was it only for transitioning purpose. I think you must ask this on tradema...@apache.org. The Apache Branding Policy says [1] that podlings may request to keep non apache domain names (e.g. netbeans.org) for *limited uses* once the podling graduates to TLP. That primarily concerns website and domain usages, but the Policy isn't really clear/explicit in how far the "limited uses" is, or may be extended to 'forever' usage when such a domain has been transferred to the ASF. My gut feeling is: only in exceptional cases, as explained at [1] for openoffice.org and groovy-lang.org. In how far this extends (or not) to the usage of non apache Maven GroupId, temporarily or 'forever', is really not addressed nor answered there, nor anywhere else I searched for it. Legally, I think it should be fine, because netbeans.org has been transferred to the ASF. But it might still not be desired or allowed from ASF (branding) Policy POV. So again, I advise to explicitly ask this to be answered and agreed upon first by the Apache Trademark (and Branding) Committee. Possibly other mentors may have more experience/knowledge in this area how other podlings dealt with this, and can chime in as well? Note: I understand the wish to retain the usage of org.netbeans as Maven GroupId for backwards compatibility. But even if this will be allowed, is it really needed to stick to using it 'forever'? If not yet now, IMO it is advisable to at least discuss and plan to migrate and transition to using org.apache.netbeans for future Maven artifacts / NetBeans releases. If not, do you want to use org.netbeans also for new Maven artifacts? Otherwise you'll end up with an even more 'messy' Maven/Nexus artifact management, using 2 different (base) GroupIds... [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs#nonapache One second question is concerning process to vote/release the artefacts. The artefacts are built using the same tag as the official release of Apache NetBeans (incubating) for example for version 10 its tag is 10.0-vc5. The only element to vote on would be a staged repository with a bunch of artefacts at (https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1011/) as the source are already released (signed by two different people). Will that work the Apache way ? How to make it comply. Best Regards Eric PS: (The donated mavenutilities plugins will be at org.apache.netbeans because they are new artefacts as the previous release netbeans-parent) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
[MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Hi, Prior to any process for voting/releasing the Apache Netbeans maven artefacts would be sure on one point. We may use groupId org.apache.netbeans or org.netbeans as we have the grant to do so. It would be easier and more backward compatible to use org.netbeans as groupId for Apache NetBeans artefacts. Can we use that groupId forever even if we became a TLP. Or was it only for transitioning purpose. One second question is concerning process to vote/release the artefacts. The artefacts are built using the same tag as the official release of Apache NetBeans (incubating) for example for version 10 its tag is 10.0-vc5. The only element to vote on would be a staged repository with a bunch of artefacts at (https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1011/) as the source are already released (signed by two different people). Will that work the Apache way ? How to make it comply. Best Regards Eric PS: (The donated mavenutilities plugins will be at org.apache.netbeans because they are new artefacts as the previous release netbeans-parent)
