Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Jay Norwood via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 5 October 2015 at 16:35:39 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:

As far as I am aware SWT is only used in Eclipse.


Eclipse can be used to create light-weight RCP apps which include 
SWT.


For example, at work we've used swt-xy-graph in some light-weight 
apps.  There is also a light-weight swtchart program that was 
easy to use.


https://code.google.com/p/swt-xy-graph/
http://www.swtchart.org/doc/index.html

The D Poseidon IDE app is a nice example of use of an early 
version of DWT.  Very light-weight, and looks a lot like earlier 
versions of eclipse (3.x'ish).


http://www.dsource.org/projects/poseidon

The current eclipse IDE gui provides a way to manipulate the 
window layout by modifying emf models of the IDE.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Johannes Pfau via Digitalmars-d]

Am Mon, 05 Oct 2015 14:21:55 -0400
schrieb Nick Sabalausky :

> > Lots of us use GNOME and are proud to do so.
> >  
> 
> GNOME3? I'm surprised to hear that. My (perhaps inaccurate) 
> understanding was that it landed with quite a thud and alienated a
> lot of its userbase (and even many of it's developers), moreso than
> the early days of KDE4 did. And I've never personally known anyone
> who did use GNOME3 (to my knowledge), so I figured it had become very
> much fringe.

As of 2015, critical reception is much more positive.[48] Debian, a
Linux distribution that had historically used GNOME 2, switched to Xfce
when GNOME 3 was released. However, Debian readopted GNOME 3 in time
for the release of Debian 8 "Jessie".[49][48] Linus Torvalds, the
creator of the Linux kernel, switched back to GNOME 3 in 2013.[48]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME#GNOME_3

Fedora and RHEL also use gnome 3 by default.

Gnome 3 was kinda annoying but has improved with every release. If
you use the keyboard shortcuts, virtual desktops and some nice
extensions it's a nice DE. And with proper icons (numix) it also looks
great.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Johannes Pfau via Digitalmars-d]

Am Tue, 06 Oct 2015 13:41:48 +
schrieb Jonathan M Davis :

> On Tuesday, 6 October 2015 at 13:38:28 UTC, Gerald wrote:
> > My limited experience with gtkd has been very positive, while 
> > the documentation is primarily reference material it's not very 
> > difficult to figure out how things work with GTK based on 
> > examples from C or pyGTK. I do use Linix and Gnome Shell so I'm 
> > fully wedded to the Gnome HIG so no issues for me in terms of 
> > using GTK as a toolkit since it's native to my environment.
> 
> A major advantage to D is that you can declare bindings to C 
> libraries such that using them in D is pretty much identical to 
> using them in C. Having more D-like wrappers around such bindings 
> can be really nice, but when you need to know how to use the 
> bindings, all you have to do is look up how you use those 
> functions in C, and you know how to use them in D. The only major 
> hurdle is having the bindings in the first place. But once you 
> have them, there isn't much reason to program in C rather than D. 
> :)
> 
> - Jonathan M Davis

True, but you wouldn't really want to use the GTK/GLIB C API in D ;-)

GTKd is a complete class-based wrapper, although mainly auto-generated.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d]

On 10/06/2015 02:21 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:

On Mon, 2015-10-05 at 14:21 -0400, Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d
wrote:



[…]

GNOME3? I'm surprised to hear that. My (perhaps inaccurate)
understanding was that it landed with quite a thud and alienated a
lot
of its userbase (and even many of it's developers), moreso than the
early days of KDE4 did. And I've never personally known anyone who
did
use GNOME3 (to my knowledge), so I figured it had become very much
fringe.



Your understanding is indeed inaccurate. Yes there was a huge kerfuffle
when the GNOME2 → GNOME3 thing happened. Many very vocal people
screamed that the GNOME people were a bunch of w## and all that
sort of stuff. Many GNOME2 users abandoned GNOME and rewrote GNOME2.
Many people though got over the marketing (and other) stupidity of the
GNOME developers, and actually tried the revolutionary GNOME3 and liked
it.


Fair enough. Of course that doesn't account for *all* those who were 
unhappy with GNOME3 (but I know you're not implying it does): My dislike 
of GNOME3 *is* from after trying it first. Just seemed wacky to me, and 
I didn't feel much point in bothering to adjust to it, what with all the 
other alternatives out there.


Actually didn't mind GNOME2 *too* much back at the time: My main beefs 
with GNOME2 were just the overly-padded GTK widgets/rendering and it 
seemed to be going for more of an OSX experience for my tastes (Plus I 
never really liked the Nautilus-based file managers: Like Finder, they 
just make me feel like my hands are tied behind my back).



I know I went to XFCE but couldn't make it work.


Y'know, I've always had a fair amount of respect for XFCE, but their big 
problem has always been polish. It's always had a lot of promise and 
potential, and I still respect it for that. But it's been in strong need 
of a big heavy dose of polish for a looong time.


(Ex: Just try adjusting the taskbar. And then go back and see how slick, 
intuitive and "just works" MS (go figure!) managed to make taskbar 
adjusting a full twenty years ago, back in Win95. Even KDE still hasn't 
managed to match that either, although it's still way ahead of XFCE in 
that regard).




This does not excuse some of the appalling behaviours of the GNOME
developers, some of which continue to happen. This is sad.



Yea, :( They've even lost major developers over some of it, AIUI. It's 
too bad. Gnome may not be my cup of tea, but its community does deserve 
better.



[…]
Wait, is there a distinction between "wx" and "wxWidgets"?


No, just bad phrasing on my part.

And wxWidgets is the old wxWindows.



Ahh, ok.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d]

On 10/06/2015 02:53 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

On Tuesday, 6 October 2015 at 18:40:17 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

Well that's good to hear. KDE4 went through the same path. After
spending time with KDE4, I found it to be it a terrible blunder of an
upgrade even after, several point releases in, people were saying it
had finally been fixed. It still has some warts that annoy me (and
some things I just gave in on), but it's finally won me back from my
hiatus with XFCE/LXDE. Looking forward to v5 stabilizing further.


IIRC, KDE 4 really became properly usable around 4.2


?!?

It must've been REALLY bad before that! I think I first tried it around 
v4.4-v4.6-ish and thus became an immediate fan of the TrinityDE project 
;) At that point, KDE4 just felt to me very clumsy, unpolished, sluggish 
and borderline broken.



, and of course,
around that time, kmail when to hell in a handbasket, because they added
that akonadi trash to kdepim and switched to that for kmail's backend.
*bleh*


> kmail has a great UI, but its backend sucks big time, and since AFAIK,
> they've never acknowledged that it's a horrible design, they're probably
> never going to fix it... :(

One of the projects still on my bucket list (and will likely remain 
there indefinitely, the way things seem to go...) is a desktop GUI 
mail/ng client. It pains me that I've wound up settling for Thunderbird :(


Desktop mail clients pretty much evaporated once everyone jumped on the 
webmail bandwagons. And now everyone hates email because it's "such a 
pain", but...uhh...yea...if you're webmailing it, it's no freaking wonder!




Oh, well. On the whole, KDE 4 has been quite solid for quite a long time
now, and nothing else even comes close to what I'm looking for.
Fortunately, the transition to KDE 5 should be much smoother, because
they don't have to redesign all of the guts this time. But still, I'd
just as soon not jump on it very quickly.



///ditto to all that ;)

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[karabuta via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 13:38:04 UTC, Manu wrote:
On 4 October 2015 at 23:24, karabuta via Digitalmars-d 
 wrote:
For some time now I have been trying various GUIs options in 
D. I came to settle on gtkd and dlangui(stability is not my 
current priority).


In YHO, what keeps you from using any of those fully(mostly)? 
Gtkd first, followed by dlangui.  I need to know what I am 
signing up for.


Qt is the defacto portable standard, including mobile devices. 
Sadly, there is no substitute, so as far as I'm concerned, D 
waits for a Qt5 binding.


Can someone please tell me what is wrong dlangui? It might not be 
stable and it mighint u()

{
  int m = 35, bar = 5;
  bar--;
  m /= bar;
  return m;
}t have some few bugs, but is it something I can rely on for a 
windows-linux GUI app. Surely it might get better somehow.



Any unfiltered opinion on this? It hurts so bad that tkd does not 
look convincing.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d]

On 10/06/2015 11:33 AM, Johannes Pfau wrote:


As of 2015, critical reception is much more positive.[48] Debian, a
Linux distribution that had historically used GNOME 2, switched to Xfce
when GNOME 3 was released. However, Debian readopted GNOME 3 in time
for the release of Debian 8 "Jessie".[49][48] Linus Torvalds, the
creator of the Linux kernel, switched back to GNOME 3 in 2013.[48]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME#GNOME_3



Wow, I had no idea about any of that. While I doubt I'll be switching 
(still don't like GTK or Nautilus, and happy enough with KDE), but now 
I'm curious to take another look, see how it's come along.



Fedora and RHEL also use gnome 3 by default.

Gnome 3 was kinda annoying but has improved with every release. If
you use the keyboard shortcuts, virtual desktops and some nice
extensions it's a nice DE. And with proper icons (numix) it also looks
great.



Well that's good to hear. KDE4 went through the same path. After 
spending time with KDE4, I found it to be it a terrible blunder of an 
upgrade even after, several point releases in, people were saying it had 
finally been fixed. It still has some warts that annoy me (and some 
things I just gave in on), but it's finally won me back from my hiatus 
with XFCE/LXDE. Looking forward to v5 stabilizing further.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d]

On Mon, 2015-10-05 at 21:05 +, bachmeier via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> 
[…]
> This was one of the more extreme cases though:
> 
> - GNOME 3 was very different from GNOME 2. It had no appeal to 
> their existing users.

Because they hadn't tried the new way, they just wanted the old way. I
was in that camp.

> - GNOME users were told that GNOME 2 was dead so they had to 
> "upgrade".

Nothing wrong with that per se, but the GNOME team definitely failed on
almost all counts of marketing and customer care.

> - There was little advance warning that it would be so different.

Not entirely true. There was a good 6 months warning.

> These factors combined to make the vast majority of GNOME users 
> very upset and very vocal. I'm a happy MATE user today but I had 
> to switch to KDE for a while until that became a realistic option.

Not vast majority by any means. Many very vocal people yes.

I now really like GNOME3 and wouldn't want to switch back to GNOME2 or
anything remotely like it.

I do wish though that the GNOME team would learn better marketing and
customer care.

-- 
Russel.
=
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder



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Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 5 October 2015 at 18:21:55 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

On 10/05/2015 12:35 PM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Sun, 2015-10-04 at 18:28 -0400, Nick Sabalausky via 
Digitalmars-d

wrote:



[…]
I absolutely, positively cannot stand software that uses GTK 
for GUIs
(including Unity and GNOME...not that anybody actually uses 
GNOME
anymore) regardless of whether I'm running on Windows or 
Linux. So I
definitely won't write software that uses it either, if I can 
help

it.


Lots of us use GNOME and are proud to do so.



GNOME3? I'm surprised to hear that. My (perhaps inaccurate) 
understanding was that it landed with quite a thud and 
alienated a lot of its userbase (and even many of it's 
developers), moreso than the early days of KDE4 did. And I've 
never personally known anyone who did use GNOME3 (to my 
knowledge), so I figured it had become very much fringe.


Enough folks hated it that there have been at least two projects 
started which are forks of gnome (mate and cinnamon), and some 
distros are now using those as their default, which has reduced 
gnome's foothold. So, it did tick off a lot of people, but I 
don't know how many folks actually switched or how many have come 
back now that gnome 3 has become much more polished. A lot of 
folks just use what their distro has. Clearly, there are plenty 
of folks who use gnome 3 now, regardless of how it was received 
initially, but how many ultimately dropped gnome because of gnome 
3 is probably hard to judge. I don't think that there's much 
question though that gnome 3 helped further fragment the *nix DE 
communities, because now we have mate and cinnamon added into the 
mix. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but between that and 
Unity, gnome is bound to have lost a lot of market share even if 
they still have a significant number of users - though since the 
gnome guys aren't exactly in it for the money, that's not 
necessarily a problem. They'll just keep on trucking, making what 
they think is the best DE, and those that like it will use it, 
while those that don't will find an alternative.


Personally, I definitely haven't liked what I've seen and heard 
of gnome 3 and would rather use gnome 2 (much as I hated it), but 
I'm a diehard KDE guy, so it doesn't really matter all that much 
to me so long as it doesn't end up affecting KDE in a negative 
way.


- Jonathan M Davis

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d]

On Mon, 2015-10-05 at 14:21 -0400, Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> 
[…]
> GNOME3? I'm surprised to hear that. My (perhaps inaccurate) 
> understanding was that it landed with quite a thud and alienated a
> lot 
> of its userbase (and even many of it's developers), moreso than the 
> early days of KDE4 did. And I've never personally known anyone who
> did 
> use GNOME3 (to my knowledge), so I figured it had become very much
> fringe.
> 

Your understanding is indeed inaccurate. Yes there was a huge kerfuffle
when the GNOME2 → GNOME3 thing happened. Many very vocal people
screamed that the GNOME people were a bunch of w## and all that
sort of stuff. Many GNOME2 users abandoned GNOME and rewrote GNOME2.
Many people though got over the marketing (and other) stupidity of the
GNOME developers, and actually tried the revolutionary GNOME3 and liked
it. I know I went to XFCE but couldn't make it work. Then when I
actually tried GNOME3 instead of just screaming about the revolution, I
found I really liked it.

This does not excuse some of the appalling behaviours of the GNOME
developers, some of which continue to happen. This is sad.

> […]
> Wait, is there a distinction between "wx" and "wxWidgets"?

No, just bad phrasing on my part.

And wxWidgets is the old wxWindows.

-- 
Russel.
=
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder



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Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 6 October 2015 at 19:23:40 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

On 10/06/2015 02:53 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 October 2015 at 18:40:17 UTC, Nick Sabalausky 
wrote:
Well that's good to hear. KDE4 went through the same path. 
After
spending time with KDE4, I found it to be it a terrible 
blunder of an
upgrade even after, several point releases in, people were 
saying it
had finally been fixed. It still has some warts that annoy me 
(and
some things I just gave in on), but it's finally won me back 
from my
hiatus with XFCE/LXDE. Looking forward to v5 stabilizing 
further.


IIRC, KDE 4 really became properly usable around 4.2


?!?

It must've been REALLY bad before that! I think I first tried 
it around v4.4-v4.6-ish and thus became an immediate fan of the 
TrinityDE project ;) At that point, KDE4 just felt to me very 
clumsy, unpolished, sluggish and borderline broken.


LOL. Fedora was actually crazy enough to release KDE 4.0.1. I 
didn't use that on my home computer, but the computers at school 
did. It's one thing for someone to do it purposefully; it's quite 
another to release it as the normal version to use with the 
distro. Now, I _did_ purposefully install it on whatever distro I 
was using at the time (OpenSuSE IIRC), and it was truly bad. So, 
I guess that I was a glutton for punishment, but I _definitely_ 
grabbed ever update as soon as I could.


I don't really blame them for releasing it like that, because 
they were between a rock and a hard place (until they released 
it, most of the apps wouldn't be updated, and until the apps were 
updated, it was going to be trash), but for a distro to actually 
do a release with it was just crazy.


I definitely don't remember there being much in the way of 
problems with 4.4 and later, but I'd also dealt with the insanity 
of the really early stuff. It probably did need to be released 
like it was, but only the crazy folks like me who installed it 
purposefully should have been using it.


One of the projects still on my bucket list (and will likely 
remain there indefinitely, the way things seem to go...) is a 
desktop GUI mail/ng client. It pains me that I've wound up 
settling for Thunderbird :(


LOL. That's also on my todo list, though the farthest I've gotten 
is a partially finished library implementing the RFC for the 
internet message format. I'll probably get back to it after I 
finish some more stuff for Phobos. But it's going to take a 
_very_ long time to finish all of the pieces, especially since 
I'd like to write pretty much all of it in D. :)


For now, I actually put up with kmail, but man do I hate akonadi. 
Worst thing to ever happen to KDE IMHO. How on earth could anyone 
think that it was a good idea to have a server for each of your 
e-mail accounts and treat the e-mail application like a client 
for each of those servers? I bet if someone forked KDE and put a 
real backend on it, a bunch of folks would jump on the fork. But 
if I'm going to go to that much work, I'd rather just write my 
own.


- Jonathan M Davis

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 6 October 2015 at 18:40:17 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
Well that's good to hear. KDE4 went through the same path. 
After spending time with KDE4, I found it to be it a terrible 
blunder of an upgrade even after, several point releases in, 
people were saying it had finally been fixed. It still has some 
warts that annoy me (and some things I just gave in on), but 
it's finally won me back from my hiatus with XFCE/LXDE. Looking 
forward to v5 stabilizing further.


IIRC, KDE 4 really became properly usable around 4.2, and of 
course, around that time, kmail when to hell in a handbasket, 
because they added that akonadi trash to kdepim and switched to 
that for kmail's backend. *bleh*


kmail has a great UI, but its backend sucks big time, and since 
AFAIK, they've never acknowledged that it's a horrible design, 
they're probably never going to fix it... :(


Oh, well. On the whole, KDE 4 has been quite solid for quite a 
long time now, and nothing else even comes close to what I'm 
looking for. Fortunately, the transition to KDE 5 should be much 
smoother, because they don't have to redesign all of the guts 
this time. But still, I'd just as soon not jump on it very 
quickly.


- Jonathan M Davis

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 6 October 2015 at 13:38:28 UTC, Gerald wrote:
My limited experience with gtkd has been very positive, while 
the documentation is primarily reference material it's not very 
difficult to figure out how things work with GTK based on 
examples from C or pyGTK. I do use Linix and Gnome Shell so I'm 
fully wedded to the Gnome HIG so no issues for me in terms of 
using GTK as a toolkit since it's native to my environment.


A major advantage to D is that you can declare bindings to C 
libraries such that using them in D is pretty much identical to 
using them in C. Having more D-like wrappers around such bindings 
can be really nice, but when you need to know how to use the 
bindings, all you have to do is look up how you use those 
functions in C, and you know how to use them in D. The only major 
hurdle is having the bindings in the first place. But once you 
have them, there isn't much reason to program in C rather than D. 
:)


- Jonathan M Davis

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Gerald via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 13:24:23 UTC, karabuta wrote:
In YHO, what keeps you from using any of those fully(mostly)? 
Gtkd first,  followed by dlangui.  I need to know what I am 
signing up for.


I'm working on a search utility using gtkd, it's essentially a 
GUI for grep. I was using a program called Search Monkey 
previously but it hasn't seen much development and was pretty 
buggy, so looking to replace it with something of my own. This is 
my first experience using D and GTK so I'm a complete newbie.


My limited experience with gtkd has been very positive, while the 
documentation is primarily reference material it's not very 
difficult to figure out how things work with GTK based on 
examples from C or pyGTK. I do use Linix and Gnome Shell so I'm 
fully wedded to the Gnome HIG so no issues for me in terms of 
using GTK as a toolkit since it's native to my environment.


I really like the fact that gtkd appears to be a full binding and 
supports GTK 3.16 so newer GTK features like headerbar are 
available. I had considered learning Go for this utility but the 
lack of a full binding for GTK was a major impediment for me. I 
had also previously fooled around with Python but didn't like the 
language very much, the dynamic typing and indentation to 
delineate blocks are not for me.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d]

On 10/05/2015 12:35 PM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:

On Sun, 2015-10-04 at 18:28 -0400, Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d
wrote:



[…]

I absolutely, positively cannot stand software that uses GTK for GUIs
(including Unity and GNOME...not that anybody actually uses GNOME
anymore) regardless of whether I'm running on Windows or Linux. So I
definitely won't write software that uses it either, if I can help
it.


Lots of us use GNOME and are proud to do so.



GNOME3? I'm surprised to hear that. My (perhaps inaccurate) 
understanding was that it landed with quite a thud and alienated a lot 
of its userbase (and even many of it's developers), moreso than the 
early days of KDE4 did. And I've never personally known anyone who did 
use GNOME3 (to my knowledge), so I figured it had become very much fringe.



wx has always been interesting, well wxPython was. However that fell
into disrepair and the follow on Phoenix never got off the ground.
Shame, wx had a lot going for it. wxD appears to be stalled/fallow/in
disrepair. Might it be worth picking up? wxWidgets is still going
strong, however Qt is where the wave is for cross platform.



Wait, is there a distinction between "wx" and "wxWidgets"?

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Dicebot via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 5 October 2015 at 18:21:55 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
GNOME3? I'm surprised to hear that. My (perhaps inaccurate) 
understanding was that it landed with quite a thud and 
alienated a lot of its userbase (and even many of it's 
developers), moreso than the early days of KDE4 did. And I've 
never personally known anyone who did use GNOME3 (to my 
knowledge), so I figured it had become very much fringe.


As it usually happens, perception can be easily misguided by the 
fact that most unhappy users tend to also be most vocal - while 
the satisfied ones simply mind their own business. The link above 
shows that at least in Arch Linux KDE and GNOME 3 have exactly 
identical install share.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Dicebot via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 22:28:59 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
(including Unity and GNOME...not that anybody actually uses 
GNOME anymore)


I can't resist but to post this 
https://www.archlinux.de/?page=FunStatistics :P


On topic : I don't use gtkd simply because I never do GUI. 
Otherwise I totally would, hate Qt since C++ days (maybe it got 
better with Qt5 but not really willing to try)

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[FreeSlave via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 13:24:23 UTC, karabuta wrote:
For some time now I have been trying various GUIs options in D. 
I came to settle on gtkd and dlangui(stability is not my 
current priority).


In YHO, what keeps you from using any of those fully(mostly)? 
Gtkd first,  followed by dlangui.  I need to know what I am 
signing up for.


Is dlangui still alive? The last commit was 5 months ago. Maybe 
we should ask the author.


What I did not like about dlangui is performance on window 
resizing. It eats a lot of CPU and make application unresponsive 
for some time after (tried it on Linux without compositing window 
manager). Maybe it's because of SDL2.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Dicebot via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 5 October 2015 at 21:05:11 UTC, bachmeier wrote:

This was one of the more extreme cases though:

- GNOME 3 was very different from GNOME 2. It had no appeal to 
their existing users.
- GNOME users were told that GNOME 2 was dead so they had to 
"upgrade".
- There was little advance warning that it would be so 
different.


These factors combined to make the vast majority of GNOME users 
very upset and very vocal. I'm a happy MATE user today but I 
had to switch to KDE for a while until that became a realistic 
option.


Notable portion - yes. Vast majority - not even close. Stats tell 
that clearly.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[bachmeier via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 5 October 2015 at 19:48:58 UTC, Dicebot wrote:

As it usually happens, perception can be easily misguided by 
the fact that most unhappy users tend to also be most vocal - 
while the satisfied ones simply mind their own business. The 
link above shows that at least in Arch Linux KDE and GNOME 3 
have exactly identical install share.


This was one of the more extreme cases though:

- GNOME 3 was very different from GNOME 2. It had no appeal to 
their existing users.
- GNOME users were told that GNOME 2 was dead so they had to 
"upgrade".

- There was little advance warning that it would be so different.

These factors combined to make the vast majority of GNOME users 
very upset and very vocal. I'm a happy MATE user today but I had 
to switch to KDE for a while until that became a realistic option.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[bachmeier via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 5 October 2015 at 21:35:49 UTC, Dicebot wrote:

On Monday, 5 October 2015 at 21:05:11 UTC, bachmeier wrote:

This was one of the more extreme cases though:

- GNOME 3 was very different from GNOME 2. It had no appeal to 
their existing users.
- GNOME users were told that GNOME 2 was dead so they had to 
"upgrade".
- There was little advance warning that it would be so 
different.


These factors combined to make the vast majority of GNOME 
users very upset and very vocal. I'm a happy MATE user today 
but I had to switch to KDE for a while until that became a 
realistic option.


Notable portion - yes. Vast majority - not even close. Stats 
tell that clearly.


I've not seen any stats that would inform us on that. For years, 
GNOME was the dominant desktop, as in 2:1 versus KDE. According 
to the link you posted above, GNOME usage is even with KDE and 
barely even ahead of XFCE. I won't put much weight on that though 
because Arch is not representative.


Some other things to keep in mind: GNOME 3 brought in a lot of 
new users that didn't like GNOME 2 (I guess most current users 
didn't use GNOME 2 and wouldn't consider doing so), some existing 
users hated it but continued to use it anyway, and some hated it 
initially but later used it once it as it became usable. I'd be 
shocked if more than 30% of GNOME 2 users were happy with GNOME 3 
in the first six months after it was released.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[thedeemon via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 13:24:23 UTC, karabuta wrote:
For some time now I have been trying various GUIs options in D. 
I came to settle on gtkd and dlangui(stability is not my 
current priority).


In YHO, what keeps you from using any of those fully(mostly)? 
Gtkd first,  followed by dlangui.  I need to know what I am 
signing up for.


I recently started using DLangUI in several projects, so far I'm 
quite happy with it. I'm using not the latest version, as I had a 
funny bug in recent version where all images were upside down 
(didn't investigate much, just took a version that worked fine 
before). I'm using it on Windows.


One downside is some things in DLangUI tend to allocate in GC 
heap more than necessary.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Kapps via Digitalmars-d]

GTK is horrid on OSX, and I've had performance issues with it.
I was interested in dlangui, it has promise, but I don't really 
want to rely on a library designed by one person that reinvents 
everything. It's guaranteed that that one person will want to 
move on at some point, and I don't want writing a GUI program to 
include maintaining a GUI library.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Jeremy via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 14:53:57 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
On Sun, 2015-10-04 at 14:16 +, Suliman via Digitalmars-d 
wrote:

> Qt is the defacto portable standard
+1


I agree that for cross-platform, Qt is increasingly the right 
choice again.




This thread is perfect. I am happy to step into such a vibrant 
community.


I am starting a desktop GUI application in D, and I am looking at 
which GUI library will support my application.  My first target 
is Windows, and dqml looks like the best solution so far. Are 
other people using dqml? What are the pain points in using it? 
Thank you.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d]

On Sun, 2015-10-04 at 19:29 +, Zekereth via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 14:48:57 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
> > Go only has QML bindings not a complete Qt5 binding. This turns 
> > out to be more than enough for good cross-platform 
> > applications. I suspect if there was a D/QML binding, this 
> > would be a good place to be.
> 
> Have you seen this? https://github.com/filcuc/dqml I haven't had 
> a chance to try it yet though.

Yes, but I haven't had chance to try it out. it is a wrapper around
DOtherSide, which can be used from D or Nim.
 
-- 
Russel.
=
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder



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Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d]

On Sun, 2015-10-04 at 18:28 -0400, Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> 
[…]
> I absolutely, positively cannot stand software that uses GTK for GUIs
> (including Unity and GNOME...not that anybody actually uses GNOME 
> anymore) regardless of whether I'm running on Windows or Linux. So I 
> definitely won't write software that uses it either, if I can help
> it. 

Lots of us use GNOME and are proud to do so.

> That rules out gtkd. I'm sure it's a fine set of bindings, but I'm
> not 
> about to force a GTK UI on any poor end user.

Neither am I, but I still like GNOME and hence use GTK. But for
portability Qt is where to be.

> As for dlangui, the stuff about OpenGL makes it sound like it's not 
> using native widgets, and I don't like using software that does that.
> 
> I haven't really done GUI stuff in D yet, but if I were, I'd look
> into 
> DWT or see what shape wxD is in. Too bad we don't have Qt, I hear 
> nothing but good things about it.

As far as I am aware SWT is only used in Eclipse. Given Qt is used in
far more widespread and disparate places, it strikes me as a better
choice.

wx has always been interesting, well wxPython was. However that fell
into disrepair and the follow on Phoenix never got off the ground.
Shame, wx had a lot going for it. wxD appears to be stalled/fallow/in
disrepair. Might it be worth picking up? wxWidgets is still going
strong, however Qt is where the wave is for cross platform.

-- 
Russel.
=
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder



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What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[karabuta via Digitalmars-d]

For some time now I have been trying various GUIs options in D. I 
came to settle on gtkd and dlangui(stability is not my current 
priority).


In YHO, what keeps you from using any of those fully(mostly)? 
Gtkd first,  followed by dlangui.  I need to know what I am 
signing up for.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d]

On Sun, 2015-10-04 at 14:16 +, Suliman via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> > Qt is the defacto portable standard
> +1

I agree that for cross-platform, Qt is increasingly the right choice
again.

wx was the best choice for a while but it seems to have gone. Qt was
good then lost focus (Nokia's fault) but now is going full steam ahead.
Using it from C++ is a real pain. I just wish I could magically create
D Qt5 bindings and port all teh C++ code to D…

> GTK is crap, and dlangui is single-man project, and also look not 
> very native.

GTK is perfect, definitely not crap. If you are using GNOME or one of
the other UI systems founded on GTK.

Single person projects can become multi-person projects.

-- 
Russel.
=
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder



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Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Manu via Digitalmars-d]

On 4 October 2015 at 23:24, karabuta via Digitalmars-d
 wrote:
> For some time now I have been trying various GUIs options in D. I came to
> settle on gtkd and dlangui(stability is not my current priority).
>
> In YHO, what keeps you from using any of those fully(mostly)? Gtkd first,
> followed by dlangui.  I need to know what I am signing up for.

Qt is the defacto portable standard, including mobile devices. Sadly,
there is no substitute, so as far as I'm concerned, D waits for a Qt5
binding.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[bachmeier via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 13:24:23 UTC, karabuta wrote:
For some time now I have been trying various GUIs options in D. 
I came to settle on gtkd and dlangui(stability is not my 
current priority).


In YHO, what keeps you from using any of those fully(mostly)? 
Gtkd first,  followed by dlangui.  I need to know what I am 
signing up for.


I couldn't see any way to use it without first learning how it 
works using a different language (C, Python, etc.). Maybe there 
exists beginner documentation somewhere but I couldn't find any.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d]

On Sun, 2015-10-04 at 13:24 +, karabuta via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> For some time now I have been trying various GUIs options in D. I 
> came to settle on gtkd and dlangui(stability is not my current 
> priority).
> 
> In YHO, what keeps you from using any of those fully(mostly)? 
> Gtkd first,  followed by dlangui.  I need to know what I am 
> signing up for.

GTK is fine for GNOME based applications. I have a C++/Gtkmm, that I
ported to Python/PyQt5, and am now looking to port to D/GtkD. However,
I would not choose this for cross-platform. For that I would choose Qt.
Sadly I have yet to find a way of using Qt5 with D.

Go only has QML bindings not a complete Qt5 binding. This turns out to
be more than enough for good cross-platform applications. I suspect if
there was a D/QML binding, this would be a good place to be.

As for DLangUI, I have no experience, but Kingsley showed a demo of
using it, and IU would like to have a more practical play. Hopefully
the next London D Meeting we can enforce doing something with it.

-- 
Russel.
=
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder



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Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 14:50:10 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:

GTK is entirely fine and dandy when using GNOME.


I don't like GNOME either.


I suspect you are trying to use it in OSX or Windows.


Well, I myself am on Linux on the desktop, but yeah, I do 
sometimes use my programs on my Windows laptop or distribute them 
to other people, so it is nice if the library doesn't suck on 
them too.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 14:48:11 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote:

Uninformed opinion: isn't there a C binding for Qt?


No, it is a pure C++ lib.

D's C++ interop is getting to the point where it is good enough 
to get started with Qt though, but Qt is also a big library with 
a lot of other meta stuff around it too. (They built their own 
reflection compiler on at least the old version  which D 
can do, but it would need to be reimplemented. And of course, it 
is just a lot of work to write the bindings, even using a native 
interface. Qt is a big library. I haven't used Qt5 though, I only 
used Qt4.)

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[John Colvin via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 15:19:21 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 14:48:11 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote:

Uninformed opinion: isn't there a C binding for Qt?


No, it is a pure C++ lib.

D's C++ interop is getting to the point where it is good enough 
to get started with Qt though, but Qt is also a big library 
with a lot of other meta stuff around it too. (They built their 
own reflection compiler on at least the old version  
which D can do, but it would need to be reimplemented. And of 
course, it is just a lot of work to write the bindings, even 
using a native interface. Qt is a big library. I haven't used 
Qt5 though, I only used Qt4.)


I would be very tempted to build a D-friendly wrapper, in C++, 
around the nastier bits.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Suliman via Digitalmars-d]

Qt is the defacto portable standard

+1

GTK is crap, and dlangui is single-man project, and also look not 
very native.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 14:49:18 UTC, karabuta wrote:
By the way, I can draw icons. Tell me when you need icons for 
minigui. At least, I can drawn better than those used in gtk :)


Cool, though I'm trying to use native ones wherever I can both to 
get the native look and the keep the size of minigui down (I'd 
have to have to change its name to "bloatedgui.d"!)


But for my X11 one, I'm doing my own widgets so I might do my own 
icons too. We'd get to embed them in the source! Fun fun!

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 13:24:23 UTC, karabuta wrote:
In YHO, what keeps you from using any of those fully(mostly)? 
Gtkd first,  followed by dlangui.  I need to know what I am 
signing up for.


I don't like gtk as an end user, so I don't use it as a developer 
either. I've never tried dlangui, it came out after I started 
writing my own.


What irks me about gtk as a user is that I have to install other 
stuff to use it and then the created windows just tend to be ugly 
and hard to use. Though, I've avoided it the last couple years 
for the most part so maybe it has improved... but Firefox and 
gimp still use that horribly horrible file chooser dialog 
sooo yeah.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[karabuta via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 13:41:56 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 13:24:23 UTC, karabuta wrote:
In YHO, what keeps you from using any of those fully(mostly)? 
Gtkd first,  followed by dlangui.  I need to know what I am 
signing up for.


I don't like gtk as an end user, so I don't use it as a 
developer either. I've never tried dlangui, it came out after I 
started writing my own.


What irks me about gtk as a user is that I have to install 
other stuff to use it and then the created windows just tend to 
be ugly and hard to use. Though, I've avoided it the last 
couple years for the most part so maybe it has improved... but 
Firefox and gimp still use that horribly horrible file chooser 
dialog sooo yeah.


By the way, I can draw icons. Tell me when you need icons for 
minigui. At least, I can drawn better than those used in gtk :)

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Jack Stouffer via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 13:38:04 UTC, Manu wrote:
Qt is the defacto portable standard, including mobile devices. 
Sadly, there is no substitute, so as far as I'm concerned, D 
waits for a Qt5 binding.


Uninformed opinion: isn't there a C binding for Qt? Why can't you 
just tie into that?

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d]

On Sun, 2015-10-04 at 13:41 +, Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> 
[…]
> I don't like gtk as an end user, so I don't use it as a developer 
> either. I've never tried dlangui, it came out after I started 
> writing my own.
> 
> What irks me about gtk as a user is that I have to install other 
> stuff to use it and then the created windows just tend to be ugly 
> and hard to use. Though, I've avoided it the last couple years 
> for the most part so maybe it has improved... but Firefox and 
> gimp still use that horribly horrible file chooser dialog 
> sooo yeah.

GTK is entirely fine and dandy when using GNOME. I suspect you are
trying to use it in OSX or Windows.

-- 
Russel.
=
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder



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Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Zekereth via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 14:48:57 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
Go only has QML bindings not a complete Qt5 binding. This turns 
out to be more than enough for good cross-platform 
applications. I suspect if there was a D/QML binding, this 
would be a good place to be.


Have you seen this? https://github.com/filcuc/dqml I haven't had 
a chance to try it yet though.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d]

On 10/04/2015 09:24 AM, karabuta wrote:

For some time now I have been trying various GUIs options in D. I came
to settle on gtkd and dlangui(stability is not my current priority).

In YHO, what keeps you from using any of those fully(mostly)? Gtkd
first,  followed by dlangui.  I need to know what I am signing up for.


I absolutely, positively cannot stand software that uses GTK for GUIs 
(including Unity and GNOME...not that anybody actually uses GNOME 
anymore) regardless of whether I'm running on Windows or Linux. So I 
definitely won't write software that uses it either, if I can help it. 
That rules out gtkd. I'm sure it's a fine set of bindings, but I'm not 
about to force a GTK UI on any poor end user.


As for dlangui, the stuff about OpenGL makes it sound like it's not 
using native widgets, and I don't like using software that does that.


I haven't really done GUI stuff in D yet, but if I were, I'd look into 
DWT or see what shape wxD is in. Too bad we don't have Qt, I hear 
nothing but good things about it.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d]

On 10/04/2015 10:53 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:

On Sun, 2015-10-04 at 14:16 +, Suliman via Digitalmars-d wrote:


GTK is crap, and dlangui is single-man project, and also look not
very native.


GTK is perfect, definitely not crap. If you are using GNOME or one of
the other UI systems founded on GTK.



I've used Unity, GNOME3. GNOME2, Mate, and Cinnamon. They all made me 
want to tear my hair out (especially the first two), largely *because* 
of GTK.


But to each him own, of course. FWIW, YMMV, IANAD, BBQ.

Re: What keeps you from using gtkd or dlangui

[Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 October 2015 at 22:28:59 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
I absolutely, positively cannot stand software that uses GTK 
for GUIs (including Unity and GNOME...not that anybody actually 
uses GNOME anymore) regardless of whether I'm running on 
Windows or Linux. So I definitely won't write software that 
uses it either, if I can help it. That rules out gtkd. I'm sure 
it's a fine set of bindings, but I'm not about to force a GTK 
UI on any poor end user.


The same here. I've always thought that gtk was positively 
hideous. But I've known folks who preferred it, and clearly there 
are plenty of folks willing to at least put up with it to use 
Gnome. So clearly, YMMV.


At this point, if I were going to write a GUI app, I'd look at 
the current state of the various attempts at binding Qt to D and 
either use one of those if it were far enough along, or I'd just 
write the GUI portion in C++ and the backend in D. But I'm also a 
KDE user, so Qt fits in much better with my environment on top of 
just plain looking better.


- Jonathan M Davis