[digitalradio] That pesky FSK RTTY
OK, my cable for my Microkeyer should arrive in a day or so My new rig provides for FSK RTTY as opposed to the AFSK my old rig has been providing for the past 18 years. I have seen many post over the past few years about FSK, but have paid little attention. It seems though that many have some difficulty getting FSK set up. I appreciate any tips about setting FSK RTTY up with the new TS-2000 , I will probably use Winwarbler and Multipsk as my main RTTY software. I'm actually not sure what the difference between FSK and AFSK really is other than the obvious keying differences. -- Andy K3UK Skype Me : callto://andyobrien73 www.obriensweb.com
Re: [digitalradio] That pesky FSK RTTY
Andy, The main advantage with FSK is that you have the ability (with some rigs) to use certain filtering specific to RTTY. My ICOM rig has superior filters that are double humped and shaped for the 170 tones. I can not use them on AFSK, but due to the requirement of needing another COM port and another interface for FSK switching, I have never set it up due to the ease of just using AFSK. I also rarely use RTTY and consider it obsolete for my purposes since it is mostly used for contesting these days. With FSK, there is no setting up of the drive levels from the sound card since you are basically switching the frequencies from inside the rig. 73, Rick, KV9U Andrew O'Brien wrote: OK, my cable for my Microkeyer should arrive in a day or so My new rig provides for FSK RTTY as opposed to the AFSK my old rig has been providing for the past 18 years. I have seen many post over the past few years about FSK, but have paid little attention. It seems though that many have some difficulty getting FSK set up. I appreciate any tips about setting FSK RTTY up with the new TS-2000 , I will probably use Winwarbler and Multipsk as my main RTTY software. I'm actually not sure what the difference between FSK and AFSK really is other than the obvious keying differences.
Re: [digitalradio] That pesky FSK RTTY
OK, I think I get it but.. With FSK, there is no setting up of the drive levels from the sound card since you are basically switching the frequencies from inside the rig. tell me more about the above. How does the switching of frequencies generate tones heard at the other end.
Re: [digitalradio] That pesky FSK RTTY
In the old days the VFO was shifted by mechanically switching a smaller capacitor in and out across the VFO tuning capacitor. This is probably why mark high was the standard, since adding capacitance would pull the frequency lower for the space tone. Today we are mostly using synthesized VFO's, and apparently all that most rigs do is insert the tones internally instead of you having to do this with outside tones from a sound card or other interface device. The advantage is that you do not have to adjust anything, assuming the internal tones are set correctly. 73, Rick, KV9U Andrew O'Brien wrote: OK, I think I get it but.. With FSK, there is no setting up of the drive levels from the sound card since you are basically switching the frequencies from inside the rig. tell me more about the above. How does the switching of frequencies generate tones heard at the other end.
Re: [digitalradio] re: 25-02 crashes
Steve, I got the impression that MARS was moving toward Winlink 2000 and handling traffic primarily through the internet. How do you set up different methods of traffic handling to include the different systems? Or do some members work one kind of mode and others another kind of mode? As a former Navy MARS member back in the early 1960's and later in the 80's with AF MARS, we were mostly sending traffic with voice with some feeds (often garbled) from RTTY. 73, Rick, KV9U Steve Hajducek wrote: Hi Patrick, Bad news as soon as MultiPSK 25-02 receives an ARQ FAE linking call the following happens, I have tested this between two stations on a few PC's in my test bed. I have reverted back to 19-02 I have 20 or my 50 core MARS-ALE testers working with 19-02 within a few hundred miles of each other testing robustness WRT multipath, its working great. I have almost 400 beta testers working with MARS-ALE that communicate via a single e-mail forum. There are over 2,600 Army MARS members alone ( not sure how many Air Force and Navy MARS members) waiting for a production release of MARS-ALE to debut. /s/ Steve Emacs! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/700 - Release Date: 2/24/2007 8:14 PM
[digitalradio] BFO, Product Detection Re: That pesky FSK RTTY
Andy wrote: tell me more about the above. How does the switching of frequencies generate tones heard at the other end. The transmitted FSK frequency is simply a CW signal that is shifting frequency at the symbol rate. Just like listening to a CW morse signal, it heterodynes to become a tone at the receiver. It is beating against the receiver's BFO (product detector) at the frequency difference between the SSB dial frequency and the FSK carrier frequency to create the audio tone at the receiver. When the receiver's reference (BFO) carrier frequency is tuned 1kHz from the FSK carrier frequency, a 1kHz audio tone is produced. Bonnie KQ6XA
Re: [digitalradio] That pesky FSK RTTY
Originally RTTY was strictly FSK. The frequency was actually shifted +/- 170 Hertz. This was by either shifting the VFO or switching between two crystals. At the far end a discriminator recovered the FSK modulation. When RTTY operation shifted to computers or more modern terminal devices, and equivalent method developed. It was easy for the computer to generate AFSK tones. When those tones are inserted into an SSB modulator, you get the equivalent of FSK due to the fact that the SSB signal consists of only the one sideband which at that point is either one of the two ASFK frequencies. At the receiving end the same equivalence applies. if you tune a true FSK signal with an SSB receiver, the local oscillator beats with the two FSK frequencies which then are recovered from the receiver as a tone. With AFSK the same reciprocity exists. R Andrew O'Brien wrote: OK, I think I get it but.. With FSK, there is no setting up of the drive levels from the sound card since you are basically switching the frequencies from inside the rig. tell me more about the above. How does the switching of frequencies generate tones heard at the other end.
Re: [digitalradio] That pesky FSK RTTY
Thanks Danny and Rick. So, before sound cards, I used an old fashioned TNC and a rig that would only do AFSK not FSK. How did that work ? One thing I did not like about the TNC days was that when sending RTTY it did not generate any of that nice sounding RTTY diddles. Will that now be the case again, when I start using FSK ? I like soome tines when i am transmitting, not silence. Andy. On 2/25/07, KV9U [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the old days the VFO was shifted by mechanically switching a smaller capacitor in and out across the VFO tuning capacitor. This is probably why mark high was the standard, since adding capacitance would pull the frequency lower for the space tone. Today we are mostly using synthesized VFO's, and apparently all that most rigs do is insert the tones internally instead of you having to do this with outside tones from a sound card or other interface device. The advantage is that you do not have to adjust anything, assuming the internal tones are set correctly. 73, Rick, KV9U Andrew O'Brien wrote: OK, I think I get it but.. With FSK, there is no setting up of the drive levels from the sound card since you are basically switching the frequencies from inside the rig. tell me more about the above. How does the switching of frequencies generate tones heard at the other end. -- Andy K3UK Skype Me : callto://andyobrien73 www.obriensweb.com
Re: [digitalradio] That pesky FSK RTTY
AFSK sends diddles , as in MIXW. Nice sounding? well.. JOhn VE5MU - Original Message - From: Andrew O'Brien To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] That pesky FSK RTTY Thanks Danny and Rick. So, before sound cards, I used an old fashioned TNC and a rig that would only do AFSK not FSK. How did that work ? One thing I did not like about the TNC days was that when sending RTTY it did not generate any of that nice sounding RTTY diddles. Will that now be the case again, when I start using FSK ? I like soome tines when i am transmitting, not silence. Andy. On 2/25/07, KV9U [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the old days the VFO was shifted by mechanically switching a smaller capacitor in and out across the VFO tuning capacitor. This is probably why mark high was the standard, since adding capacitance would pull the frequency lower for the space tone. Today we are mostly using synthesized VFO's, and apparently all that most rigs do is insert the tones internally instead of you having to do this with outside tones from a sound card or other interface device. The advantage is that you do not have to adjust anything, assuming the internal tones are set correctly. 73, Rick, KV9U Andrew O'Brien wrote: OK, I think I get it but.. With FSK, there is no setting up of the drive levels from the sound card since you are basically switching the frequencies from inside the rig. tell me more about the above. How does the switching of frequencies generate tones heard at the other end. -- Andy K3UK Skype Me : callto://andyobrien73 www.obriensweb.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 2/25/2007 3:16 PM
Re: [digitalradio] BFO, Product Detection Re: That pesky FSK RTTY
OK, similar to the switching in rig's that generate CW keying. Thanks. You used the right buzz word for this old SWL'er ..Heterodynes I am most familiar with ! Are you currently Stateside Bonnie ? Andy. On 2/25/07, expeditionradio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The transmitted FSK frequency is simply a CW signal that is shifting frequency at the symbol rate. Just like listening to a CW morse signal, it heterodynes to become a tone at the receiver.
Re: [digitalradio] That pesky FSK RTTY
I think the diddles are just a function of the program, you can have them or not. The tnc inserted the tones, I believe. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all DX 2-6 years each . QSL LOTW-buro- direct As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you use that - also pls upload to LOTW or hard card. moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk - Original Message - From: Andrew O'Brien To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] That pesky FSK RTTY Thanks Danny and Rick. So, before sound cards, I used an old fashioned TNC and a rig that would only do AFSK not FSK. How did that work ? One thing I did not like about the TNC days was that when sending RTTY it did not generate any of that nice sounding RTTY diddles. Will that now be the case again, when I start using FSK ? I like soome tines when i am transmitting, not silence. Andy. On 2/25/07, KV9U [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the old days the VFO was shifted by mechanically switching a smaller capacitor in and out across the VFO tuning capacitor. This is probably why mark high was the standard, since adding capacitance would pull the frequency lower for the space tone. Today we are mostly using synthesized VFO's, and apparently all that most rigs do is insert the tones internally instead of you having to do this with outside tones from a sound card or other interface device. The advantage is that you do not have to adjust anything, assuming the internal tones are set correctly. 73, Rick, KV9U Andrew O'Brien wrote: OK, I think I get it but.. With FSK, there is no setting up of the drive levels from the sound card since you are basically switching the frequencies from inside the rig. tell me more about the above. How does the switching of frequencies generate tones heard at the other end. -- Andy K3UK Skype Me : callto://andyobrien73 www.obriensweb.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/700 - Release Date: 2/24/2007 8:14 PM
[digitalradio] 144.???? Rtty
just curious anyone interested in trying vhf rtty Ian VA7SW
[digitalradio] Re: 25-02 crashes
Steve, I noticed the same behaviour here using test versions 24_02_20 and 25_02_20; reverted back to 19_02_20. 73 Bill N9DSJ --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Steve Hajducek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Patrick, Bad news as soon as MultiPSK 25-02 receives an ARQ FAE linking call the following happens, I have tested this between two stations on a few PC's in my test bed. I have reverted back to 19-02 I have 20 or my 50 core MARS-ALE testers working with 19-02 within a few hundred miles of each other testing robustness WRT multipath, its working great. I have almost 400 beta testers working with MARS-ALE that communicate via a single e-mail forum. There are over 2,600 Army MARS members alone ( not sure how many Air Force and Navy MARS members) waiting for a production release of MARS-ALE to debut. /s/ Steve Emacs!
REPLY - MARS digital ops - Re: [digitalradio] re: 25-02 crashes
Hi Rick, RTTY is dead in MARS in my opinion as to being useful, but still allowed in all three MARS programs as far as I know, CW was vanquished some years ago now, prior to my return to MARS. There are 3 MARS as you know and to date, there are different approaches in all three and many commonalities regarding HF digital communications. I was NMCM in the 80's until '91 and I have been Army MARS since 2003, I had to bow out for a number years as career and TDY travel got in the way. Almost since returning to MARS, I have been involved with the more to ALE within MARS. In NMCM these days its mostly MT-63 and PACTOR I, where FEC is used a lot as programs such as MultiPSK and MixW support a connection between the TNC user and the PC Sound Device Modem user. This is also true for Army MARS. In NMCM the BBS system is MDS on DOS and is PACTOR I. For both Army and Air Force MARS, WL2K PBMO's with AirMail as the client is being used and 95%+ of the users are PACTOR I based, Army MARS has shutdown their older MSYS and Winlink Classic BBS systems just this month and currently has all their eggs in the WL2K basket. Air Force MARS retains its MSYS and Winlink Classic for radio-to-radio BBS capability as does NMCM with MDS, and NMCM does not allow the use of WL2K. As to Air Force MARS attended digital communications, I am not sure just what the story is outside of my direct activities, I know MT-63 is also getting heavy use, along with PACTOR. Basically MARS makes use of all digital modes that are commonly used by both Amateur Radio, Commercial and the U.S. Military to some extent, but PACTOR I and MT-63 currently rule, my opinion obviously, others in MARS may disagree. In my direct activities, members of all three MARS programs are working jointly in the use of ALE where a Tri-Service ALE network operates 24/7 where MARS-ALE is the ALE tool set for most users and is the ALE LQA front end for the existing and developing MARS Traffic System. At present we have MARS-ALE via Telnet communicating with back end servers, one is for network activity reporting automation and the other is the BBSlink server. Any MARS-ALE based station can use the report automation tool for feed the view from their station perspective (its the MARS-ALE/BBS 24/7 perspective that will always be fed) when on-the-air, on a selected period of all channel acty via Internet e-mail to one or more end points for display, analysis and reporting in near-real time, there is an SQLdbase being developed and host of reporting tools, at present one such feed is to a closed Yahoo forum such as this one ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MARS-ALE-SITREP/ ) where all that data exposes all the network acty as to Soundings, linking calls, what stations were linked one on one or one on many etc., and network diagrams and other reporting can be derived, our reporting tools are not all in place yet and manual processing has really become difficult as the acty has increased. The BBSlink sever at present supports WINLINK.ORG and MARSALE.ORG ( a new development that uses standard SMTP/POP3 client and webmail when not on HF) on the back end where only Air Force and Army MARS can use WL2K. This is a very new development that has only just entered wider testing. Any supported MARS-ALE ARQ protocol, including the use of Tactical AMD messages can be used to send and receive e-mail ( AMD is painful on incoming e-mails if more than one line !) and not just PACTOR x, MARS-ALE supports a number of ARQ protocols on the PCSDM and provides external TNC/Modem support. The next addition to the BBSlink server with be WA8DED emulation so that MDS, MSYS and Winlink Classic will see MARS-ALE as just a TNC on another port, at that time NMCM and Air Force MARS will have a full radio-to-radio and Internet HF e-mail solution as BBSlink will at one site all combinations. My MARS-ALE/BBS which is running at the moment has accepted traffic today from stations where test message were send by the Remote ALE user during the connection using both WINLINK.ORG and MARSALE.ORG agents in separate messages sent, its just a matter of the addressing to tell BBSlink which agent to use, the same will be true of MDS/MSYS/Winlink Classic support when added, thus if Internet is completely down that BBS has a radio-to-radio path, the user still has a path to send their out going traffic. Our interface for all these BBS systems supports the Remote ALE user to list ( if desired) any incoming messages and chose which to read as during an ECOM event in the field, one does not want to reading waiting for a ton of incoming traffic if the order of business is just to send their outbound traffic, but one may be looking for a specific message or two inbound, this is not an option when using the normal WL2K PBMO interfaces. With MARS-ALE the use of AMD, DTM and DBM modes are automatically detected and if ARQ responded to in same, this is also true of
[digitalradio] 141A
Anyone want to take a run at EA2AFR on 14109.5 (1500) who is trying out 141A. as of 1800Z I can hear him but can't connect John VE5MU
[digitalradio] 141A
EA2AFR and I tried for quite a while to get this running, but sigs were not strong enough. Could communicate unproto and also had a good chat with 100% copy using Olivia 1000/32 Also heard KV9U and KQ6XA briefly another day, maybe. John VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] 144.???? Rtty
This was something we did in the early 1980's prior to packet radio. Even my homebrew TU worked well on VHF RTTY compared with its dismal performance on HF. We had an active contingent of local hams who used RTTY on meters. In fact, they even built and maintained a regenerative RTTY repeater which made it possible for hams over a 50 or more mile radius to use VHF RTTY. Some had autostart so it was possible to send messages to print and hold on their system. Then packet came in like a roller coaster. In a matter of a few months, the useage of the RTTY repeater went almost to zero. The RTTY owners decided that they would run the repeater for a long time. Two weeks later they shut it off. Then it was quite a sea change as most active hams had a packet station always on for e-mail. Today, all we have left is the internet since almost all interconnecting links, BBS's, are gone. Another sea change, although the complete opposite of the one in the 1980's when for a short time VHF digital was one of the most active modes for radio amateurs. I had hoped to get some interest going with VHF digital, but have pretty much given up as there just are not any hams in my area willing to do this. Out of 150 hams in our area, you would be hard pressed to find more than two or three who really have much interest in digital other than perhaps contesting with RTTY. With more hams likely moving toward HF, it may be possible to find some locals trying that out, but in rural areas like I live, it is just not that common. 73, Rick, KV9U va7s wrote: just curious anyone interested in trying vhf rtty Ian VA7SW
Re: [digitalradio] 141A
This is what copied while I was out of the house... s is unproto ale any copy at all TXema [EMAIL PROTECTED]@WELL .. kv9u can u [EMAIL PROTECTED] tkkk [EMAIL PROTECTED]@AFRHERE I GOT ECAUSE CHECKED RERAMT WERE MIXED ALT TO GET A CLEARI -.-R de VE5n us bluettol try to answer KV9U and a KQ^ on here now getting u Ok . if you call CQ on AQ then there are about 3 stations over here now listening and one my be able to connect QSL ? EA2AFR de VE5MU YES .. HEARD ANYOTHER THERE CALLING BLEAST I WAS ABLE TOD WITHCONTROL FRAMES HI HI -.- Ok try agin Txema we will listen de VE5MU just use the blue call button and arq FAE tnx WELL ..SAW THERE WERE BONNIE ALT SHE WAS NOOO STRONGAFRRE .. TR SE ALEMS NOUCKKNnothing there I'll try the blue ARQ FAutton sends out a CQ and if any station can here you they can press the blue answer button and their station should espond anyway can see you unproto and the signal seems to be comming up a little EA2AFR de VE5MU Already pressed the bkue AER button but it was about the same HI .see I'm able to receive you hereust we need to know how to do for getting it running it must be .. Tried ALE FAE but AFRo do for sendind datELP file is a li confusey poor Spanglish HI HI BK Ok here comes my CQ try answer thanks de ve5mu CQ DE VE5MU CQ DE VE5MU CQ DE VE5MU CQ DE VE5MU CQ DE VE5MU ok will try the red one see what happens VE5MU JOHN REGINA,SK CQ DE EA2AFR CQ DE EA2AFR CQ DE EA2AFR CQ DE EA2AFR CQ DE On 2/25/07, John Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone want to take a run at EA2AFR on 14109.5 (1500) who is trying out 141A. as of 1800Z I can hear him but can't connect John VE5MU -- Andy K3UK Skype Me : callto://andyobrien73 www.obriensweb.com
Re: [digitalradio] 141A
I copied some of the ALE from EA2AFR. I copied both of you when you switched back to Olivia 32/1000. There was a Pactor 3 station overlapped with about half of the ALE and that blocked any reception. Then when you went to Olivia, on a slightly different center frequency, I was able to copy through the approximately 30% overlap with P3. Now I see W1OER calling CQ on 14109.5 (dial frequency 140108 + 1450Hz). I will move up to 14.109.5 +1500 and see if any ALE activity. KV9U John Bradley wrote: EA2AFR and I tried for quite a while to get this running, but sigs were not strong enough. Could communicate unproto and also had a good chat with 100% copy using Olivia 1000/32 Also heard KV9U and KQ6XA briefly another day, maybe. John VE5MU No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/700 - Release Date: 2/24/2007 8:14 PM
[digitalradio] Re: Call for comments on open protocols
Walt DuBose wrote: Currently we CAN operate modes wider that 3 KHz however only to transmit images. Did you mean for this to apply only to digital modes? I have always understood that the limit factor to SSTV quality was tight restrictions re. speed/bandwidth. In response to challenges to WiFi AM and SSB the FCC response was that they are essentially unlimited as to legal bandwidth so long as they do not QRM others. Has that ruling been updated since (I believe it was two or three years ago)? Ragchewers running HiFi AM SSB chew up huge chunks of shared Ham spectrum all the time and I am unaware of any FCC action to limit their bandwidth. Beyond that are the Hams running unfiltered broadband CB and homebrew amps, overdriven and some well over legal limits -- and little action by the FCC to stop that either -- they are usually obvious on the air. This on top of the neo-commercial abuse of Ham bands by automated Pactor III users. Why the nitpicking of digital and SSTV bandwidths when there is so much abuse elsewhere? Just wondering ... -- Thanks! 73, doc, KD4E ~~ Projects: http://ham-macguyver.bibleseven.com Personal: http://bibleseven.com ~~
Re: [digitalradio] 141A
John I can copy you but do not hear the EA here near Detroit. Kurt K8YZK - Original Message - From: John Bradley To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 1:10 PM Subject: [digitalradio] 141A Anyone want to take a run at EA2AFR on 14109.5 (1500) who is trying out 141A. as of 1800Z I can hear him but can't connect John VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] 141A
Tzema is strong in to WNY right now... * ][TIS][EA2AFR ][AL0] BER 29 SN 08 * On 2/25/07, wa8vbx [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John I can copy you but do not hear the EA here near Detroit. Kurt K8YZK - Original Message - *From:* John Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, February 25, 2007 1:10 PM *Subject:* [digitalradio] 141A Anyone want to take a run at EA2AFR on 14109.5 (1500) who is trying out 141A. as of 1800Z I can hear him but can't connect John VE5MU -- Andy K3UK Skype Me : callto://andyobrien73 www.obriensweb.com
Re: [digitalradio] 144.???? Rtty
Rick, Was that regenerative repeater in the Chicago area? I remember someone used to send text pictures on one night. I have one left that I sent to my father, it was a semi-truck and the title was Keep On Trucking. But the paper is getting brittle and falling apart. Had a Teletype Model 15 and a TU I built from RTTY Journal, was before the ST-600 or Mainliner, all tubes. I lived in North Riverside, IL and had to get a eight elemet beam, aimed it west to get good quieting on the receiver. Jerry - K0HZI On 2/25/07, KV9U [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This was something we did in the early 1980's prior to packet radio. Even my homebrew TU worked well on VHF RTTY compared with its dismal performance on HF. We had an active contingent of local hams who used RTTY on meters. In fact, they even built and maintained a regenerative RTTY repeater which made it possible for hams over a 50 or more mile radius to use VHF RTTY. Some had autostart so it was possible to send messages to print and hold on their system. Then packet came in like a roller coaster. In a matter of a few months, the useage of the RTTY repeater went almost to zero. The RTTY owners decided that they would run the repeater for a long time. Two weeks later they shut it off. Then it was quite a sea change as most active hams had a packet station always on for e-mail. Today, all we have left is the internet since almost all interconnecting links, BBS's, are gone. Another sea change, although the complete opposite of the one in the 1980's when for a short time VHF digital was one of the most active modes for radio amateurs. I had hoped to get some interest going with VHF digital, but have pretty much given up as there just are not any hams in my area willing to do this. Out of 150 hams in our area, you would be hard pressed to find more than two or three who really have much interest in digital other than perhaps contesting with RTTY. With more hams likely moving toward HF, it may be possible to find some locals trying that out, but in rural areas like I live, it is just not that common. 73, Rick, KV9U
[digitalradio] Re: 144.???? Rtty
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, va7s [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it would still be interesting to see if we can establish rtty back on vhf as a mode of operation may not be able to work but would be nice to restart rtty on local areas Ian VA7SW just curious anyone interested in trying vhf rtty Ian VA7SW
Re: [digitalradio] 14100.5 kHz USB - ALE Channel Bandwidth, IARUBeacon Guardband
But- what is default offset? Not everyone has the same thing for an offset. It is determined properly, by simply starting on one end of the waterfall and clicking every 100 cycles, and transmitting and observing your transmit output. Where the RF output is the highest (from the sound card - which drives the rig at its highest power) that is your sweet spot on the soundcard, and where you offset should be set. Every computer sound card I have used has had a different spot where that happens. My present one happens to have its highest curve setting at 1 kc, but others have been much lower, and some much higher. RTTY IS easier to find, but if someone gives me that stupid 14.070 freq, and I go to it (14069 on the VFO plus 1 KC on my sound card), very likely there is NO signal on that freq. But, there are dozens above it, so which one is he when I go there? I have to individually go to each one, one at a time, and copy till I get a call readout, or in my case - using WinWarbler I have wideband copy, and go to that window and search down until a call has indicated where he is. Its just so much easier to use the correct freq in the first place. I dont care where your VFO is, or what your offset is, and you shouldnt care where mine are either. If you spot 14.07380 and I click on it, that is where my program sets my tracer to copy the signal there, and I have the target copied immediately. If you tell me 14.071 in the freq column, and then put a note in +1280 , my CAT control is still going to set my vfo to 14.071 and then the waterfall tracer will be up 1kc from that, putting my trace on 14.072 which is still 1.8 KC off the target- and there will be a dozen signals between my tracer, and the real station. This is the reason we should all use the waterfall freq, not the VFO freq, and should train new ops right off the bat, so there is no confusion. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all DX 2-6 years each . QSL LOTW-buro- direct As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you use that - also pls upload to LOTW or hard card. moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk - Original Message - From: John Becker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] 14100.5 kHz USB - ALE Channel Bandwidth, IARUBeacon Guardband It makes sense if you are running true RTTY AFSK tones of 2125 / 2295. Or any mode for that fact. If you are using default offset I will find you on any dial frequency you may give. At 05:36 PM 2/24/2007, you wrote: It just doesnt make sense to give someone the incorrect frequency when spotting a digital station. Nor does it make sense to give them a VFO freq, since we all know that the station IS NOT THERE. It is the VFO plus the audio card freq added together. That is where we will find the digital station, no matter what rig we have, or what our offset freq is. I really detest seeing someone giving a vfo on the spot, and giving a offset to add to it, in the notes. Just give me the freq. I dont care what your vfo or offset is. Mine may or may not (probably not) be the same exact things. But you can bet that if you give me the vfo plus offset as one figure, that when I click on it, my CAT program will put me on top of the signal, and I can read it immediately, without having to look around at a dozen different signals before I can do so. It is the same with CW signals. I may have 800 cy offset , and you may have 600 or 759, it doesnt matter. If you are using a waterfall, and I am, the signal will be right where we want to copy it. If not using a waterfall/computer readout, it will still be in the correct place in our earphones. Announce your digital presence via our DX Cluster telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Our other groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97 Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/700 - Release Date: 2/24/2007 8:14 PM
Re: [digitalradio] 14100.5 kHz USB - ALE Channel Bandwidth, IARUBeacon Guardband
You do have a problem then. I don't As I don't have a waterfall or sound card and can't click on a thing. Therefore - again - if I say meet me on 14,075 you will be right on with my mark space tone with 2125 2295. Now if you have what ever you run way off the standard you will have to look for me. Its so easy Ray Charles could see it... And yes I do have the same tones time after time after time. It never changes. I think you see why I *can't* use a waterfall frequency now. John At 04:13 PM 2/25/2007, you wrote: But- what is default offset? Not everyone has the same thing for an offset. It is determined properly, by simply starting on one end of the waterfall and clicking every 100 cycles, and transmitting and observing your transmit output. Where the RF output is the highest (from the sound card - which drives the rig at its highest power) that is your sweet spot on the soundcard, and where you offset should be set. Every computer sound card I have used has had a different spot where that happens. My present one happens to have its highest curve setting at 1 kc, but others have been much lower, and some much higher. RTTY IS easier to find, but if someone gives me that stupid 14.070 freq, and I go to it (14069 on the VFO plus 1 KC on my sound card), very likely there is NO signal on that freq. But, there are dozens above it, so which one is he when I go there? I have to individually go to each one, one at a time, and copy till I get a call readout, or in my case - using WinWarbler I have wideband copy, and go to that window and search down until a call has indicated where he is. Its just so much easier to use the correct freq in the first place. I dont care where your VFO is, or what your offset is, and you shouldnt care where mine are either. If you spot 14.07380 and I click on it, that is where my program sets my tracer to copy the signal there, and I have the target copied immediately. If you tell me 14.071 in the freq column, and then put a note in +1280 , my CAT control is still going to set my vfo to 14.071 and then the waterfall tracer will be up 1kc from that, putting my trace on 14.072 which is still 1.8 KC off the target- and there will be a dozen signals between my tracer, and the real station. This is the reason we should all use the waterfall freq, not the VFO freq, and should train new ops right off the bat, so there is no confusion.
Re: [digitalradio] freq given on spots
Yeah sorry , I had forgotten about that: you do so well. But, the majority of hams now do not use FSK. In fact, with the sound card based rtty, it has really created a great number of those who use RTTY operation, and much more so than days past when we had clickity clacks sitting around with noise and oily smells. For those using FSK, you are correct, if the receive station also has the same setup. Setting a VFO on a single freq is easy, but like I say, most do not do that. This has been one of the problems, talking apples and oranges. Back when I was using RTTY as part of my daily work routine, we gave the center frequency, and each of the receive stations would dial that freq on their VFO, then had hardware that determined the mark and space from that. So the freq given was neither the mark, nor the space. Other services sometimes gave the mark freq, and other the space freq. So, it has never been a real world-wide standard even then. This problem hardly ever came up, when we just had RTTY. But, once PSK came in as a popular mode, it has been a problem trying to figure out where people really meant, when they gave a spot. That has carried over to being a problem on RTTY, because of the use of the sound card programs. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all DX 2-6 years each . QSL LOTW-buro- direct As courtesy I upload to eQSL but if you use that - also pls upload to LOTW or hard card. moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk - Original Message - From: John Becker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] 14100.5 kHz USB - ALE Channel Bandwidth, IARUBeacon Guardband You do have a problem then. I don't As I don't have a waterfall or sound card and can't click on a thing. Therefore - again - if I say meet me on 14,075 you will be right on with my mark space tone with 2125 2295. Now if you have what ever you run way off the standard you will have to look for me. Its so easy Ray Charles could see it... And yes I do have the same tones time after time after time. It never changes. I think you see why I *can't* use a waterfall frequency now. John At 04:13 PM 2/25/2007, you wrote: But- what is default offset? Not everyone has the same thing for an offset. It is determined properly, by simply starting on one end of the waterfall and clicking every 100 cycles, and transmitting and observing your transmit output. Where the RF output is the highest (from the sound card - which drives the rig at its highest power) that is your sweet spot on the soundcard, and where you offset should be set. Every computer sound card I have used has had a different spot where that happens. My present one happens to have its highest curve setting at 1 kc, but others have been much lower, and some much higher. RTTY IS easier to find, but if someone gives me that stupid 14.070 freq, and I go to it (14069 on the VFO plus 1 KC on my sound card), very likely there is NO signal on that freq. But, there are dozens above it, so which one is he when I go there? I have to individually go to each one, one at a time, and copy till I get a call readout, or in my case - using WinWarbler I have wideband copy, and go to that window and search down until a call has indicated where he is. Its just so much easier to use the correct freq in the first place. I dont care where your VFO is, or what your offset is, and you shouldnt care where mine are either. If you spot 14.07380 and I click on it, that is where my program sets my tracer to copy the signal there, and I have the target copied immediately. If you tell me 14.071 in the freq column, and then put a note in +1280 , my CAT control is still going to set my vfo to 14.071 and then the waterfall tracer will be up 1kc from that, putting my trace on 14.072 which is still 1.8 KC off the target- and there will be a dozen signals between my tracer, and the real station. This is the reason we should all use the waterfall freq, not the VFO freq, and should train new ops right off the bat, so there is no confusion. Announce your digital presence via our DX Cluster telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Our other groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contesting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wnyar http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Omnibus97 Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/700 - Release Date: 2/24/2007 8:14 PM
Re: [digitalradio] 144.???? Rtty
Hi Jerry, The repeater was located on a farmer's silo on a ridge somewhere between Trempealeau, WI and Winona, MN from what I recall. I did not have any problem hitting it with modest power and antenna from Onalaska, WI. It had pretty good coverage. The one thing about regenerative repeaters is that they are mode specific. If you had an RTTY regenerative repeater today, not that I would remotely recommend such a thing anymore, you would not be able to use any other digital modes, such as PSK31, MFSK16, Olivia, etc., since it would only regenerate the tones close to 2125/2295 Hz. I too had a Model 15. I paid $45 for it in the early 1980's and only had it for a few years and sold it with a homebrew TU for $5 (including the power supply loop for the teleprinter) due to the complete collapse of the older technology. One of my diehard teleprinter friends, who is still active, but won't try any new digital modes if it is not SSTV on 40 meters, used to have a Model 33 and he swore he would never get rid of it. Well, after a few years of taking up so much space in his shack, he somehow managed to get it downstairs and took it to the only place possible ... the local landfill. I'm sure it was very painful to do this. VHF RTTY would truly be an anachronistic mode today since it has been eclipsed by the weak signal modes that would work so much better on VHF. The weakest signal modes that have been tested to work deep into AWGN work well on VHF and higher frequencies. You don't see any RTTY art anymore come to think of it. It used to be fairly popular on VHF, because you could operate for long periods of time with no hits and it made for a nice picture. I especially liked the Abraham Lincoln and the Einstein ones:) 73, Rick, KV9U Jerry W wrote: Rick, Was that regenerative repeater in the Chicago area? I remember someone used to send text pictures on one night. I have one left that I sent to my father, it was a semi-truck and the title was Keep On Trucking. But the paper is getting brittle and falling apart. Had a Teletype Model 15 and a TU I built from RTTY Journal, was before the ST-600 or Mainliner, all tubes. I lived in North Riverside, IL and had to get a eight elemet beam, aimed it west to get good quieting on the receiver. Jerry - K0HZI
Re: [digitalradio] 141A
Hello Andy and all, TKS for the reception text. Unproto ALE is a FEC mode as each character is Golay coded. But contrary to ARQ it is not error-free... The sensitivity is S/N=-4 dB contrary to FAE (or DBM) ARQ which is -6,5 dB (down to -8.5 dB), this for two reasons: * if an error is detected in the CRC of an ARQ frame (DMB, DTM or FAE), the frame is repeated, * in the message part of the DBM or FAE frame, you can use the maximum Golay correction (3 errors). In a standard ALE message, you are raesonably limited to one correction. With more than one correction, you are going to decode random characters. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Andrew O'Brien To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 8:34 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] 141A This is what copied while I was out of the house... s is unproto ale any copy at all TXema [EMAIL PROTECTED]@WELL .. kv9u can u [EMAIL PROTECTED] caggn tkkk [EMAIL PROTECTED]@AFRHERE I GOT ECAUSE CHECKED RERAMT WERE MIXED ALT TO GET A CLEARI -.-R de VE5n us bluettol try to answer KV9U and a KQ^ on here now getting u Ok . if you call CQ on AQ then there are about 3 stations over here now listening and one my be able to connect QSL ? EA2AFR de VE5MU YES .. HEARD ANYOTHER THERE CALLING BLEAST I WAS ABLE TOD WITHCONTROL FRAMES HI HI -.- Ok try agin Txema we will listen de VE5MU just use the blue call button and arq FAE tnx WELL ..SAW THERE WERE BONNIE ALT SHE WAS NOOO STRONGAFRRE .. TR SE ALEMS NOUCKKNnothing there I'll try the blue ARQ FAutton sends out a CQ and if any station can here you they can press the blue answer button and their station should espond anyway can see you unproto and the signal seems to be comming up a little EA2AFR de VE5MU Already pressed the bkue AER button but it was about the same HI .see I'm able to receive you hereust we need to know how to do for getting it running it must be .. Tried ALE FAE but AFRo do for sendind datELP file is a li confusey poor Spanglish HI HI BK Ok here comes my CQ try answer thanks de ve5mu CQ DE VE5MU CQ DE VE5MU CQ DE VE5MU CQ DE VE5MU CQ DE VE5MU ok will try the red one see what happens VE5MU JOHN REGINA,SK CQ DE EA2AFR CQ DE EA2AFR CQ DE EA2AFR CQ DE EA2AFR CQ DE On 2/25/07, John Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone want to take a run at EA2AFR on 14109.5 (1500) who is trying out 141A. as of 1800Z I can hear him but can't connect John VE5MU -- Andy K3UK Skype Me : callto://andyobrien73 www.obriensweb.com
Re: [digitalradio] 144.???? Rtty
Rick What was the shift used? In the St. Louis area there was a 146.10 .70 repeater that used 850Hz shift. Since I have not lived in the area for some 20 years now I have no guess if it's still on the air.
Re: [digitalradio] freq given on spots
Danny, I think that I would be correct in guessing that the sound card modes do have a *default* off set when installed. I only run 2 sound card modes, ALE and that is fixed dial frequency and HELL. With HELL I know that I will find other HELL operators in one part of the band and always tune them in with the dial - never by clicking on the waterfall. I therefore just run stand alone programs for each. Have no use for mixw or the others. As far as my other modes, have had RTTY covered for the last 30 years. With AMTOR PACKET PACTOR have TNC's for them. Never have seen any software that will keep up with ARQ and a TNC to date. Having said that - if there is a default then one could say a dial frequency and have now problem finding each other.
[digitalradio] Re: 141A
You, EA2AFR and KQ6XA were very solid here on all modes - also CO2JA abit later...ice did a number on my antenna so was in monitor mode only. Antenna is back up so will try 80 meters later... 73, Bill N9DSJ --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, John Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: EA2AFR and I tried for quite a while to get this running, but sigs were not strong enough. Could communicate unproto and also had a good chat with 100% copy using Olivia 1000/32 Also heard KV9U and KQ6XA briefly another day, maybe. John VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] 144.???? Rtty
I was pretty sure the shift was 170, but just got e-mail confirmation back from the ham who was one of the main guys who set up the repeater and he confirmed we used 170 Hz. I would be very surprised if any RTTY repeaters still exist since packet was so much better and could do so much more. 73, Rick, KV9U John Becker wrote: Rick What was the shift used? In the St. Louis area there was a 146.10 .70 repeater that used 850Hz shift. Since I have not lived in the area for some 20 years now I have no guess if it's still on the air.
[digitalradio] Audio Output
One of my sound cards has only one output jack and a mic and line input jacks. I would like to use a simple splitter cable on the output, one to the speakers and one to the AF output on the ACC1 plug of my IC-746. Will this likely cause a problem using Fldigi or PSKMail? Thanks 73, Walt/K5YFW
Re: [digitalradio] freq given on spots
Have a look at Patrick's 141A ARQ FAE mode on Multipsk. Under moderate to good conditions this ARQ mode would run circles around P1 and P2 it is VERY quick John VE5MU As far as my other modes, have had RTTY covered for the last 30 years. With AMTOR PACKET PACTOR have TNC's for them. Never have seen any software that will keep up with ARQ and a TNC to date. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 2/25/2007 3:16 PM
